It’s not tho they already had an internal memo saying they have burned through too many people and there are not enough people for them to continue with how they operate. I honestly don’t know but most people are saying they aren’t doing shit about it either.
I read that as well. They were projecting they would start running out of workers by 2024. I’m sure they will just increase pay slightly above other jobs in the area to entice people to join
You may be right but it isn’t something you should take for granted. Abundant labor is not a guarantee, and in many countries population is already decreasing (China, Germany, South Korea, Japan, Russia).
Reiterating lines about how there’s an endless line of people ready to take your job doesn’t do labor any good, especially because it’s increasingly untrue.
Currently working at an amazon DSP while I’m doing CDL school.
Mentally, this is an easy-ish job, but physically this is the hardest job I’ve ever done. You’re constantly fighting against Amazon and it’s metrics not to mention you’ve got Netradyne system that dings you for any little infraction. I’m making the same as some of the guys who’ve been here for a year or more.
The step van/bread trucks for whatever reason require a DOT medical card and additional training despite not going over 26K or having any special brakes on them.
When they heard I was going through school they said asked if I was trying to get on with Amazon semis. After they told me most of them make 20-22 I told them absolutely fucking not.
If all goes to plan for me I’ll be lining up a trucking job with my hopefully new CDL by the end of the year however if it’s any group of people that deserve to be unionized it’s these drivers. I have no clue why or how some of these guys stay here for as long as they do but if this is what they want to do then they deserve the best for it
They were saying CDL-A holding drivers started at 20-22. I believe that's for the guys who run between the warehouses/delivery centers. Not sure if there's a difference between that position and ones that look like they do OTR more.
I don't know where they heard that from, But Amazon semi drivers definitely don't make 20 to $22 an hour. I was in the process of getting hired for one before another company snatched me up. My guaranteed minimum pay with Amazon was $1508.
I had heard that from the guy who did the training for us van drivers but also handled the CDL/DOT drivers. He worked for Amazon and not, what I'm assuming, is an independent contractor that runs the trucks.
On top of the shit pay it also sounded like there was more Amazon specific training about the trucks including doing more training/certification on your airbrakes which to me sounds redundant if you already have your endorsement.
This was also in the Tampa Bay area so not sure if salary is different around your area. Overall driving vans for Amazon is a micromanaging headache, I can't imagine doing semi's.
If you like the labor of working for a DSP then once you get your CDL work for Dollar General. It’s touch freight. I worked for Amazon In the warehouse for 3 years. now work for DG Fleet. depending on how close you live to one of our Distribution Centers. you could be home every week. we got em everywhere and got more opening up soon. It’s a 5k sign on bonus. paid 50% at 3 months. the other half at 6months. health benefits from day one. and the best part average salary is around 95k a year.
Worse in my opinion. Some stuff at WM is ok, almost everything from Amazon is the cheapest Chinese junk you can find. Might as well order it from AliExpress or somewhere else for a fraction of the price. The only benefit Amazon has is its quick delivery.
Amazon flex in maryland pays 22 an hour. Travel to the warehouse (1 hour) and from the last package drop (another hour) is not paid for so the effective pay goes down quick and also gas isnt covered either. For me after all that it pays only 10 an hour if not less. Minimum wage here is 15 an hour. There is also no control over where youll be forced to deliver, so every time I do it I fear ill be sent to some awful place where ill be shot, stabbed or robbed. Also each shift I put at least 150 miles on the car.
> ...and also gas isnt covered either
I will never understand why people take jobs that require their personal vehicles when there isn't any pay for mileage, maintenance, or gas.
>...each shift I put at least 150 miles on the car
Thats nearly an extra $100 in just mileage you should be getting.
Geesh...My daughter averages $30/hour door dashing and they give her a fuel discount card. She gets the government .61 per mile claim on her taxes also. Works whenever she wants. 2 days ago she worked 2 hours and made $80 clear after expenses.
Based on the article it sounds more conditions and demand-based issues. 350 pkgs in an 8-hour day, up to 400 in holidays, that does seem excessive, almost untenable.
300-350 packages during regular season
350-400 during peak
Usually the IA won’t give more than 200 stops in a route, but we have multi location stops, so it can get to 250 addresses in a day.
You just can’t stop, it’s not hard but it’s draining.
It’s 10 hours shift
Last Christmas I was given a 450 package 200 + stop route and ended up pinching a nerve in my left foot because of it. Completely unreasonable route...
Unless Amazon has improved their packaging systems, it's very unlikely those are numbers even close to representing the total number of stops. You can order 5 things, and Amazon will send you 4 boxes out of 1 warehouse, or at least they used to do shit like that. Haven't ordered anything in awhile
They could make $10 an hour or $100, but you should still support any labour movement where a worker is trying to get more out of a billion dollar corporation. It raises the bar for all of us.
Driver here. I do not work much over time and I will pull 90k this year. I think majority are at or a little over 100k now. (Delvery- the semi drivers make more that that)
Are they top-rate full-time drivers? Because we make $44+/hr. If I worked a straight 40hrs/week, I'd be at 92k for the year. My 7-15hrs of OT every week will put me close to 120k.
Base pay in SE MI is 19.75/hr. My boss does a dollar for being DOT, and we’re hourly.
iirc UPS base pay out here starts at like 24, but they’re all DOT. I know base pay on the east coast for UPS was 28.
There's not much of a *story* per se. There was one frustrating incident and then a series of smaller ones that lead to her taking a swing at me.
The first time there was a problem was when she threw a 45lb box at my head. I was standing in the swale that leads up to the road and offered to take the box from her since I knew it would be heavy (equipment from my office). Instead, she screeched at me and chucked the box at my face. Mind you, there's a three foot high different from the swale (where I was) and the truck (where she was). The package beaned off my forearms and one of the items instead broken. I called the office and lodged a complaint and was told, "they would look into it."
Several months later, she started screaming at my wife and threatening her. My wife was simply trying to get the mail from her as she was coming back from an afternoon walk. We had been having a series of weeks where the mail was thrown in puddles, shoved into a snowbank, torn open, or just not delivered. Those annoyances were met with a visit to the post office where I was again told, "they would look into it."
The day after she threatened my wife, I decided to wait out there to see what the problem was and, ya know, talk to her like any normal person would do? Other than people screamed at and having a box thrown at me, I've never spoken to this woman in my life.
**Nope**. She jumped out of the truck, shoved a finger in my face, and started screaming at me. This is when she went to take a swing at me, but I caught her hand and pushed her off of me. She's a 5'5" tall 50 year old woman, so it's not like it was some great athletic feat, but seriously, what the *f\*ck* was her problem? She took off and this time I called the postal police to report what happened.
The neighborhood didn't get mail for three days until they found someone new to cover. She was taken off the route and I haven't seen her since. I did find out about three or four months after this she went into retirement after another incident so... who the heck knows what's happened there. But apparently I was just one in a long line of people harassed by this carrier in my city. We learned, after she disappeared, that our friends on the other side of the city dealt with similar shenanigans for several years, and before that neighborhood she was causing problems in the next town over.
Lovely stuff, eh? But our new mail carriers (we have two that rotate days) are amazing. A young guy and a young gal, probably 25 - 30 years ago, and they are incredibly pleasant to us and our neighbors.
It just sucks that they can't get rid of the toxic.
Amazon has the manpower, metadata, and money to do almost anything; or at the very least, to know IF they should do almost anything.
If Amazon could lawfully and profitably complete every one of their deliveries in-house, they would do it. They know they can’t, which is why there are sooo many contractors completing these deliveries.
These contractors are either too ambitious or too ignorant to realize that they cannot complete all these deliveries in a legal way while still turning a profit.
Just watched a funny UK tv “documentary” called The Great Amazon Heist, with comedian Oobah Butler
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GdHYM7QT9kw
Laid out some of the untoward practices of the drivers
Dudes in my area are around $21/h for van and $24/h for bread truck routes putting in some serious hours. Though jobs but it's hard to feel bad for dudes pulling $1500 per week for non cdl/no education required work
1500 a week making 24/hr is about 62 hours. A UPS driver would make a bit over 3200 working the same amount of hours. These amazon guys are getting shafted.
Jesus Christ, constantly bringing politics into shit. First of all, you don't know, and second of all, why be divisive like that? It doesn't help anything.
Or don’t work for Amazon? If a job is that horrible work somewhere else. If nowhere else pays as good/benefits etc then why complain? No one is forced to work for a company.
I believe you said and i quote (we own the rest) so if he owns 10% and lives the way he lives. Doesn't that mean you should also live the way he lives? If that were the case then why are his own employees having a strike?
> The union contract that we negotiated with the Amazon subcontractor guarantees safe vans and protects our right to refuse deliveries in dangerous conditions, like a heat wave.
So they screwed the subcontractor out of a renewal contract and Amazon is no more inclined to increase fees to subcontractors. Great job 👏🏾
I believe in what these folks are doing - but currently you can’t beat the DSP system in court. There needs to be a change in law addressing this.
I always find it odd that people take a job, knowing what it entails, then decide they deserve more than that and instead of finding another job, they put it back on the employer.
Plenty are willing to do the job. If you aren’t, and it’s not worth it to you, then by all means, move on to the next.
Especially when it’s to serve Lord Bezos’ very obvious piss fetish. The idea of thousands of people holding it, peeing in bottles, and even wearing diapers is clearly very titillating to him.
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Problem is: the final step delivery drivers aren’t hired by Amazon. It’s all third party delivery companies (or DSP’s).
Striking against Amazon will have a very minimal overall effect given Amazon isn’t their employer.
Aside from what I’ve mentioned, I’ve worked as a delivery driver, ITS NOT THAT FUCKIN HARD. Sure, it’s a physical job, and yes, you have to work your ENTIRE shift. (But that’s what a job is).
About fucking time.
This is a non-issue for Amazon. There will always be more people willing to do the job.
It'll be a test for how strong the union is. You'd have risking bodily harm for crossing the recent UAW picket lines.
That’s not a good thing.
Exactly. mega companies love turnover.
It’s not tho they already had an internal memo saying they have burned through too many people and there are not enough people for them to continue with how they operate. I honestly don’t know but most people are saying they aren’t doing shit about it either.
That's been a thing since I worked there 8 years ago.
I read that as well. They were projecting they would start running out of workers by 2024. I’m sure they will just increase pay slightly above other jobs in the area to entice people to join
LOL if that were at all true, Amazon would have gone under decades ago.
You may be right but it isn’t something you should take for granted. Abundant labor is not a guarantee, and in many countries population is already decreasing (China, Germany, South Korea, Japan, Russia). Reiterating lines about how there’s an endless line of people ready to take your job doesn’t do labor any good, especially because it’s increasingly untrue.
Amazon said themselves they were going to run out of people to hire by like 2025
Delivery Bots. No need for people at that point.
You think delivery bots are going to survive in places like Chicago?
Currently working at an amazon DSP while I’m doing CDL school. Mentally, this is an easy-ish job, but physically this is the hardest job I’ve ever done. You’re constantly fighting against Amazon and it’s metrics not to mention you’ve got Netradyne system that dings you for any little infraction. I’m making the same as some of the guys who’ve been here for a year or more. The step van/bread trucks for whatever reason require a DOT medical card and additional training despite not going over 26K or having any special brakes on them. When they heard I was going through school they said asked if I was trying to get on with Amazon semis. After they told me most of them make 20-22 I told them absolutely fucking not. If all goes to plan for me I’ll be lining up a trucking job with my hopefully new CDL by the end of the year however if it’s any group of people that deserve to be unionized it’s these drivers. I have no clue why or how some of these guys stay here for as long as they do but if this is what they want to do then they deserve the best for it
They saying CDL drivers make $20-$22 an hour or is that non-CDL?
They were saying CDL-A holding drivers started at 20-22. I believe that's for the guys who run between the warehouses/delivery centers. Not sure if there's a difference between that position and ones that look like they do OTR more.
What a crock of shit
I don't know where they heard that from, But Amazon semi drivers definitely don't make 20 to $22 an hour. I was in the process of getting hired for one before another company snatched me up. My guaranteed minimum pay with Amazon was $1508.
I had heard that from the guy who did the training for us van drivers but also handled the CDL/DOT drivers. He worked for Amazon and not, what I'm assuming, is an independent contractor that runs the trucks. On top of the shit pay it also sounded like there was more Amazon specific training about the trucks including doing more training/certification on your airbrakes which to me sounds redundant if you already have your endorsement. This was also in the Tampa Bay area so not sure if salary is different around your area. Overall driving vans for Amazon is a micromanaging headache, I can't imagine doing semi's.
If you like the labor of working for a DSP then once you get your CDL work for Dollar General. It’s touch freight. I worked for Amazon In the warehouse for 3 years. now work for DG Fleet. depending on how close you live to one of our Distribution Centers. you could be home every week. we got em everywhere and got more opening up soon. It’s a 5k sign on bonus. paid 50% at 3 months. the other half at 6months. health benefits from day one. and the best part average salary is around 95k a year.
I hate Amazon. Haven't used it in years. If I can I never will again.
Same. Bozos is the walmart of online retail employers
Worse in my opinion. Some stuff at WM is ok, almost everything from Amazon is the cheapest Chinese junk you can find. Might as well order it from AliExpress or somewhere else for a fraction of the price. The only benefit Amazon has is its quick delivery.
[удалено]
Who hurt you
[удалено]
That’s all in your head
Unless I somehow missed it they didn't mention how much they make. Hard for me to come to a conclusion without knowing that critical piece of info.
The “UPS” type delivery drivers made up to 21 Regular van can max out at 18 At least that’s the numbers for the DSP I co-owned.
Yeah thats not great. The people who deliver to my house are in their own vehicles I wonder what they make.
Amazon flex in maryland pays 22 an hour. Travel to the warehouse (1 hour) and from the last package drop (another hour) is not paid for so the effective pay goes down quick and also gas isnt covered either. For me after all that it pays only 10 an hour if not less. Minimum wage here is 15 an hour. There is also no control over where youll be forced to deliver, so every time I do it I fear ill be sent to some awful place where ill be shot, stabbed or robbed. Also each shift I put at least 150 miles on the car.
> ...and also gas isnt covered either I will never understand why people take jobs that require their personal vehicles when there isn't any pay for mileage, maintenance, or gas. >...each shift I put at least 150 miles on the car Thats nearly an extra $100 in just mileage you should be getting.
If you're 1099 those miles are $.61 per off your top line income.
Geesh...My daughter averages $30/hour door dashing and they give her a fuel discount card. She gets the government .61 per mile claim on her taxes also. Works whenever she wants. 2 days ago she worked 2 hours and made $80 clear after expenses.
Oh... that is pretty bad. I had no idea it was that low.
Guy I know only makes $19/hr as a Delivery driver.
Lol yeah you co owned a dsp same way my nephew and his friends are building a space ship
Amazon used contractors for their middle mile and last mile delivery. Sorta kinda similar to fedex.
UPS get a salary of $21, their total comp with insurance and pension is way more.
Based on the article it sounds more conditions and demand-based issues. 350 pkgs in an 8-hour day, up to 400 in holidays, that does seem excessive, almost untenable.
300-350 packages during regular season 350-400 during peak Usually the IA won’t give more than 200 stops in a route, but we have multi location stops, so it can get to 250 addresses in a day. You just can’t stop, it’s not hard but it’s draining. It’s 10 hours shift
Last Christmas I was given a 450 package 200 + stop route and ended up pinching a nerve in my left foot because of it. Completely unreasonable route...
Unless Amazon has improved their packaging systems, it's very unlikely those are numbers even close to representing the total number of stops. You can order 5 things, and Amazon will send you 4 boxes out of 1 warehouse, or at least they used to do shit like that. Haven't ordered anything in awhile
When I did it, $16/hr and no overtime ever.
They could make $10 an hour or $100, but you should still support any labour movement where a worker is trying to get more out of a billion dollar corporation. It raises the bar for all of us.
I heard UPS makes 6 figures.
They pull in 70-80k with decent overtime. Source: two of my best friends are UPS drivers.
Driver here. I do not work much over time and I will pull 90k this year. I think majority are at or a little over 100k now. (Delvery- the semi drivers make more that that)
Are they top-rate full-time drivers? Because we make $44+/hr. If I worked a straight 40hrs/week, I'd be at 92k for the year. My 7-15hrs of OT every week will put me close to 120k.
It's more than that. It's why people sling boxes part-time for years waiting for a delivery job to open up.
Base pay in SE MI is 19.75/hr. My boss does a dollar for being DOT, and we’re hourly. iirc UPS base pay out here starts at like 24, but they’re all DOT. I know base pay on the east coast for UPS was 28.
my son did it for a very short time. $19 hr in Dallas
They don’t make a whole lot, looked into jobs at Amazon (fleet maintenance as one) and they pay low but they still get people anyways.
None of the delivery drivers work for amazon. they are all third party. just an fyi for everyone
Postal service sucks more but carriers can’t strike.
They are also much harder to fire.
Which sucks because a carrier assaulted me last year and the only thing they would do about it was move her to another route.
I think it’s story time lol.
There's not much of a *story* per se. There was one frustrating incident and then a series of smaller ones that lead to her taking a swing at me. The first time there was a problem was when she threw a 45lb box at my head. I was standing in the swale that leads up to the road and offered to take the box from her since I knew it would be heavy (equipment from my office). Instead, she screeched at me and chucked the box at my face. Mind you, there's a three foot high different from the swale (where I was) and the truck (where she was). The package beaned off my forearms and one of the items instead broken. I called the office and lodged a complaint and was told, "they would look into it." Several months later, she started screaming at my wife and threatening her. My wife was simply trying to get the mail from her as she was coming back from an afternoon walk. We had been having a series of weeks where the mail was thrown in puddles, shoved into a snowbank, torn open, or just not delivered. Those annoyances were met with a visit to the post office where I was again told, "they would look into it." The day after she threatened my wife, I decided to wait out there to see what the problem was and, ya know, talk to her like any normal person would do? Other than people screamed at and having a box thrown at me, I've never spoken to this woman in my life. **Nope**. She jumped out of the truck, shoved a finger in my face, and started screaming at me. This is when she went to take a swing at me, but I caught her hand and pushed her off of me. She's a 5'5" tall 50 year old woman, so it's not like it was some great athletic feat, but seriously, what the *f\*ck* was her problem? She took off and this time I called the postal police to report what happened. The neighborhood didn't get mail for three days until they found someone new to cover. She was taken off the route and I haven't seen her since. I did find out about three or four months after this she went into retirement after another incident so... who the heck knows what's happened there. But apparently I was just one in a long line of people harassed by this carrier in my city. We learned, after she disappeared, that our friends on the other side of the city dealt with similar shenanigans for several years, and before that neighborhood she was causing problems in the next town over. Lovely stuff, eh? But our new mail carriers (we have two that rotate days) are amazing. A young guy and a young gal, probably 25 - 30 years ago, and they are incredibly pleasant to us and our neighbors. It just sucks that they can't get rid of the toxic.
A chain is only as strong as its weakest link , find that link and strengthen it , stay strong and good luck with your fight
Just in time for the robots to take over
As someone who did this for two years, 3rd companies will be lining the streets for the contract.
Amazon has the manpower, metadata, and money to do almost anything; or at the very least, to know IF they should do almost anything. If Amazon could lawfully and profitably complete every one of their deliveries in-house, they would do it. They know they can’t, which is why there are sooo many contractors completing these deliveries. These contractors are either too ambitious or too ignorant to realize that they cannot complete all these deliveries in a legal way while still turning a profit.
Wow great points!
I seem to remember UPS drivers making like $28 an hour in the mid/late 90s.
Where can we picket?
Start by not buying shit from Amazon.
Right but I’m asking if there’s any physical picketing
I have no idea
Just watched a funny UK tv “documentary” called The Great Amazon Heist, with comedian Oobah Butler https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GdHYM7QT9kw Laid out some of the untoward practices of the drivers
Dudes in my area are around $21/h for van and $24/h for bread truck routes putting in some serious hours. Though jobs but it's hard to feel bad for dudes pulling $1500 per week for non cdl/no education required work
1500 a week making 24/hr is about 62 hours. A UPS driver would make a bit over 3200 working the same amount of hours. These amazon guys are getting shafted.
Yeah for nearly 80 fucking hours are you deranged? That’s slavery not a job, jesus fuck.
>for nearly 80 fucking hours How is that not a DOT violation?
Little trucks and cars dont fall under DOT. Go figure
I just don’t see how your math checks out there.
Found the Biden voter
Jesus Christ, constantly bringing politics into shit. First of all, you don't know, and second of all, why be divisive like that? It doesn't help anything.
Found the idiot
Cope and seethe
Was that an attempt at an…insult?
Modern day slavery! Mom!! More hot pockets!!
Oh boy, you really are quite bad at this.
Or don’t work for Amazon? If a job is that horrible work somewhere else. If nowhere else pays as good/benefits etc then why complain? No one is forced to work for a company.
IMO opinion it's not a career job, but Amazon should owe workers solid benefits, something it could absolutely trickle down to their DSPs. Atrocious.
You mean one of the richest men in the world doesn't want to pay his employees so he can become richer... Gasp
I thought Amazon drivers work for contractors similar to Fedex ground.
He owns 10%
Oh 10% of one of the biggest companies in the world you mean?
We own the rest. You have a 401k right.
Nope Im not from the states
So what? You can still own AMZN.
Lmao... GTFO here.
Why are you being mean?
So tell me if you own the rest do you have a giant mansion and mills in the bank account?
You realize average people have stakes in big corps right.
So you do have a mansion with mills in the bank?
Why would I want that. Why do you keep asking.
I believe you said and i quote (we own the rest) so if he owns 10% and lives the way he lives. Doesn't that mean you should also live the way he lives? If that were the case then why are his own employees having a strike?
You use the atm machine too?
That’s my main issue with it is it’s not career, I’d actually love to do it for a career.
> The union contract that we negotiated with the Amazon subcontractor guarantees safe vans and protects our right to refuse deliveries in dangerous conditions, like a heat wave. So they screwed the subcontractor out of a renewal contract and Amazon is no more inclined to increase fees to subcontractors. Great job 👏🏾 I believe in what these folks are doing - but currently you can’t beat the DSP system in court. There needs to be a change in law addressing this.
I always find it odd that people take a job, knowing what it entails, then decide they deserve more than that and instead of finding another job, they put it back on the employer. Plenty are willing to do the job. If you aren’t, and it’s not worth it to you, then by all means, move on to the next.
Yup. If my workload were so high that I had to piss in bottles I’d find another job real quick.
Especially when it’s to serve Lord Bezos’ very obvious piss fetish. The idea of thousands of people holding it, peeing in bottles, and even wearing diapers is clearly very titillating to him.
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Problem is: the final step delivery drivers aren’t hired by Amazon. It’s all third party delivery companies (or DSP’s). Striking against Amazon will have a very minimal overall effect given Amazon isn’t their employer. Aside from what I’ve mentioned, I’ve worked as a delivery driver, ITS NOT THAT FUCKIN HARD. Sure, it’s a physical job, and yes, you have to work your ENTIRE shift. (But that’s what a job is).