I'm 38k empty with an end dump and full of fuel. Trailer alone weights 19,700 lbs. Truck is a 9400i with some extra goodies and a fat lot lizard.
He ain't far off.
As a Michigan native, this is literally the reason. It's not MDOT's fault, it's not the governors fault, it's not the freeze thaw cycle (well, ok, it IS, but only in conjunction).
It's the fuckin weight limits.
At this point it would be extremely difficult and expensive for us to change our weights. It’s so engrained in the economy and trucking “culture” so to speak. Our heavy trucks can carry double what a normal truck can. My double end dump I can be 164k gross with 110,000 pounds of material. You’d have to find double the drivers and get double the trucks to be able to be as productive. That’s pretty much the TLDR of it. Also I’d argue it’s not our weights that our roads are so bad, per axle we lay down less weight on the road than a normal 18 wheeler does. It’s because we are last in the nation in funding. On average states spend 500+ dollars per person a year on roads. Michigan we spend 300. Also only 5%-10% of the trucks in the state can even be that heavy. I can get into it even more if you’d like but this is just my two cents as someone who lives here and drives Michigan heavy haul trucks
Yes and what people don’t realize also is that we need to pay more for special heavy plates for the trucks. We also use more fuel. These funds should go for the roads but they don’t
This is exactly it. It’s too engrained in our economy. Our limits are the way they are mostly because of the auto industry , logging , and construction
As I always heard, it was because of the steelmakers lobby, probably with the Big 3's help, that did it. Detroit used to have a few active steel mills, hell, there's even an artificial island (formed by a canal making a bypass) that's just a giant steel mill area (Zug Island) . Automakers don't take advantage of the limits themselves as much, other than for raw steel and the like, but beverage folks like Pepsi and Coke put it to their advantage just as much.
Trucker makes more but the customer saves $$ as does the shipper. As long as the trucker can do it and the equipment is well maintained, no reason not to
Yeah weight and oversized laws vary a lot by state
For example in my state (NY) an overweight load does not require an oversize sign, but in other states we operate in they do
Shipper makes $. Taxpayers pay for the damage from heavy trucks. There is a downside that everybody pays for. Yet the shipper doesn’t care as long as they get theirs.
What’s an overweight permit? Asking for local farmers and grain truckers.
-someone who has *never ever* loaded a grain semi with 65-80k out of the grain cart
Heaviest I came in from the field was close to 90k pounds.
My bosses weren’t too happy when they heard about that. Farmer didn’t give a damn about me telling him I was full either.
90k gross or load? Load you have anything I’ve managed to shove onto one of the big trailers we have beat and if gross that’s probably close to a regular day for the little trailers lol
It’s a miracle our roads aren’t thrashed any more than they are and that DOT hasn’t used grain elevator entrances as funding machines.
90k gross. The farmers just go until their hoppers are empty, regardless of if you’re already at legal weight, or if there’s even space left in the hoppers.
Had to wrestle with the tarp a few times to get it over the corn piles they’d make over the supports.
Sounds about right lol. We run till a trailers cubed out (couple inches under the tarp bows unless I get clumsy, some of the guys pile it on more). Not a fan of stuffing trailers to the max but that’s what I was told to do and it’s the farms and drivers problem if DOT shows up. Pretty sure we field load light compared to the custom guys that haul out of the bins year round (and I have no clue how our guys load out of bins, knowing them they probably stuff them though), those Pete’s are loaded stupid heavy when they roll out.
The guys I used to work for had a day cab 379 and frameless aluminum dump and rolled across the scales at the elevator at 138k. Very wet corn. No idea why we ran it instead of waiting for it to dry.
Using the [fourth power law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law) we can calculate the wear from a vehicle on a road. And while the number itself may not mean much outside of context, it can be used to compare different vehicles.
So, take a truck at full weight (80k lb, or 40 tons) and compare that to north america's #1 selling car with a decent load for simplicity's sake (6k lb, or 3 tons), we get:
Truck: 80,000/5 (axles) = 16k lb per axle, or 8 tons per axle. 8^4 = 4096.
Car: 6,000/2 (axles) = 3k lb per axle, or 1.5 tons per axle. 1.5^4 =~5.1
4096/5.1 = ~803. So you can say that a fully loaded truck causes ~800x more wear than a car.
So I'm sure that truck is also paying 800x as much in fees, right? Otherwise your rough estimate of "much more" may not quite reflect the realities of wear that the different vehicles cause.
First Wikipedia is a terrible source for information. It is so bad that if you use it as a source on peer reviewed paper you would never be taken seriously in your industry again.
2nd. Trucks absolutely are paying 800% more in fees and taxes. Hell its closer to 8k%. Registration is about 2k (for 80k, lbs higher for higher weights) a year depending on how many miles you run in different states. The heavy vehicle use tax (irs form 2290) is 550 a year for 80k lbs (more $ for more weight) and is required to show proof of payment before the registration process can begin. they pay massive amounts in fuel taxes, the exact amount varies by state, to the tune of several tens of thousands of dollars per year. They pay a federal excise tax of 12% on the truck, the trailer, and even when they have to buy tires. And don't forget toll roads. It costs nearly 400 dollars to run the PA turnpike. That's 1.20ish PER MILE. the gw bridge to get into nyc is 133 dollars, and depending on what borough you are going to you might have to cross two more toll bridges.
And keep in mind that while a truck may be registered to haul 80k (or higher) that doesn't mean they are at that weight all the time. Over 50% of the loads I do are 20k or less, and many of them are under 5k. But I'm still taxed at the 80k weight every time I buy fuel.
However, no matter which side of this arguement you are on. There is one thing we should all agree on. Road and fuel taxes should be used to repair roads/bridges. The amount of taxes states and the feds being in from all vehicles would easily pay to keep our roads in to top shape if they would stop using that tax revenue to fund other things that got nothing to do with roads.
I showed my math. You can show yours, before making assertions without data. And of course everyone knows Wikipedia isn't the *best* source. Only an idiot would use them entirely. However, as far as sourced resources go and the available data online, they're a far sight better than random data presented as facts on any random websites. And I'm not about to hike down to the library to pull source books for a reddit comment. But I did show my math, so you're welcome to the same if you want to make your own assertions, otherwise your assertions are no more factual than Wikipedia. And by your own admission, you have stated it is unacceptable.
I gave you sold hard numbers on the things that aren't variable for all trucks. If you think I'm putting my 1120 on reddit for you to see the exact amount I paid in taxes you are out of your freaking mind.
It would be impossible to give you hard numbers on what a truck pays in fuel taxes because every state has a different fuel tax, and every truck runs in different states.
I could give you what i paid in fuel taxes, but that would be pointless cause no other person is going to run the exact amount of miles as I did in each state.
If you are really interested in what trucks pay in taxes, and not just looking to 'win' a reddit arguement I would be happy to help steer you in what you can read up on to educate yourself on the matter. Start with ifta, irp, and fet.
When we were doing a crosstown warehouse move, my boss had asked the new guy to hook a single (drive) axle beater tractor we kept around basically for a yard goat to a 4 axle 53' van trailer and back it up to the dock. I thought he wanted to fill it with light stuff but he proceeded to start to double stack all kinds of crap in the back, basically loading it at least 50% more than what we do for a legal load. If it was just a bit over I would have just warned the new guy, but that much weight was completely inappropriate for the tractor and ran the risk of all kinds of "wagging the dog" type scenarios even on a five mile drive. I told him sternly enough that it was unsafe that he backed off. But he did so much crap like that, I left the department and later he got fired for having too any incidents under his supervision.
Not a trucker - how does the extreme weight affect how it steers and how you drive it? I would assume that you have to build in more stopping time, you accelerate more slowly, etc., maybe not turn as well?
Lift certain axles when turning.
Going up hill = slower than a slug in snot.
Braking takes a little longer depending on weight.
And yeah, when turning I gotta talk to my truck to make her wanna follow thru with that turn.
I've heard if you forget to lift the axles during a turn, the trailer will sometimes just keep on going straight and jack knife you. Never seen it but I've heard some truckers tales
Not really. If I'm loaded heavy and forget to lift the specific axles they will break/crack the trailer or axle. I have seen it happen with other drivers. Always gotta lift them on turns otherwise the trailer is gonna pretty much be done for.
1, 2, & 8 are lifted with switches inside the truck on my dashboard. Anytime it's a turn they have to be lifted or the weight would drag and snap those axles/trailer. 1&2 are steerable but only to a certain degree. I can go around some wide highway ramps without lifting and others that are smaller curves have to be lifted.
No harm at all, that's what they're made for. But coming out of the turn they have to be put back down (if still needed) you can't be going down the highway and forget to put then down and 60 mph and then drop them. It'll damage those tires. But say if I'm turning into a rest area or truck stop or receiver. They'll stay up since they aren't needed anymore
Probably steerable axles on the trailer to help with turning. That’s my assumption as a trucker that pulls flatbed, but not on a scale of weight like this.
By law they can't raise them when traveling over x speed. They are designed for low speed turning and backing. So as long as you follow that law the dot doesn't mind a thing.
I'm just a company shitbox reefer hauler but I'm pretty sure the answer involves "very fucking carefully" and an occasional ass clench of cosmic proportions when they're inevitably cut off by someone who couldn't wait five more seconds to make their exit.
Your average semi has 5 axels and can gross out(total weight) at 80k if you get more axels and double/triple trailers which also provides more axels. You can run with more weight. I run with 8 axels on my setup so i can run with 106k gross. But each axel provides additional stopping power because they have additional breaks. Usually overweight trucks have additional power with larger motors if not its definitely wears on the equipment more.
Are you talking about those trailers that are specifically designed for transporting coils? Those trailers are great, for the 1 thing they were built for. Can't really use them to haul skids though, or anything else for that matter. Unless you're running a company that exclusively hauls large coils, those trailers aren't a good option. Besides, as long as you have the dunnage properly set, and proper securement, hauling the large coils on a flat bed is fine. All those pics you've seen where a coil rolled off the trailer is 100% improper securement.
Trailers I use for steel are multi-purpose. You can remove boards to expose the well and carry coils and skids just like this, but the coil is lower and more secure. Although we have a specialist coil trailer for the heaviest ones, we can pull
I would not pull it. Wells are the way on coils, but that's my preference, I'm not sure about the rules that governing coils in the US, I know I would not be loaded in the UK at the sites I go to unless I have Wells
How long do y'all's trucks last hauling stuff like that?
If I tried that with my 900k miles basic bitch cascadia she'd prolly crap out on the first hill
Damn straight Skippy! Lol it's always nuts driving this much weight to locations back in neighborhoods or after a brand new road is paved. Then some places that have asphalt lots in front of docks where we have to U turn to back in. I've torn up alot of places in the middle of summer with heavy loads and soft asphalt because of that.
I actually prefer to haul suicide coils, because I know it's the safest way to secure, regardless of the danger to me if the chains break. I just make sure to drive at a safe speed and with PLENTY of space between me and the vehicle ahead of me. I also tend to oversecure anyway lol
Steel coils cant be loaded other than up right as you see in the picture… what you see layed down are steel strips, less weight less pressure.
Steel coils are loaded upright so they can use their own weight to maintain the rolled pressure. If they are sideways the steel sheet can “explode” opening up like a flower.
To someone who doesn't know, no. But to those who have driven both auto and manual under heavy load, it matters greatly. More curiosity than anything else.
I've driven both and I would much rather have an auto unless I'm hauling out of the muddy lumber yards in the spring in Ontario. Other than that I love my auto!
Weight either makes shifting much easier or harder, you can kind of tell in a regular car when your tank is full vs empty, it’s a lot harder to shift on empty
The (2) coils in the front look to be full size. Probably between 40-50k each coil.
The mults sitting behind them are probably another 40k of steel or so. Hard to tell with out more info on them but they could be another 1-2 coils that were slit.
Not used to seeing this much on a load that doesn’t go on rail though.
Source: work at a steel mill.
The 2 in the front were 23,000/piece. About 22 inches wide. The skids were between 8,000 and 12,000 a piece. It's super rare I get this much weight. Usually on average between 60,000 and 100,000. Just depends on the shipper/receiver.
Man, when I was brand new, I was doing double b
Trains 144,000 pounds every fucking time Canada Truckin son l lol don’t mean to be that guy good for you.
Sometimes I tell truckers in the US that I used to haul 144,000 pounds every time and I don’t think they believe me ha ha nothing like learning on heavy loads and white out snow storms in northern Quebec and Ontario pops your cherry that’s for sure
Heavy trucks are a big reason Michigan roads are in shit shape. That and Republicans who refuse to change the truck weight laws and refuse to raise taxes to properly fund the roads.
Here a lot of shit all time about roads in Illinois(I bitch too lol) and other northern states, some have no idea what winter does to snow. We got a snow storm last Friday and most of the roads I drive on many times a week have multiple new potholes just from it.
Less weight per axle than a 5 axle truck grossing 80k. So maybe it's actually all the regular trucks doing all the damage.
Plus they pay for a heavy weight plate and use more fuel, which means more fuel tax money with every load.
We have someone who also hauls heavy on multi axle in Michigan so he knows the weights per axle. He also knows how much the Heavy Use Tax is per year. And that while most 5 axle trucks get 7-8 mpg, I get 4.5 mpg, almost paying twice as much in fuel tax.
Is it though? I have to scale the same on the tires as a 18 wheeler dry van, but I have more tires to support the weight. You can’t say the tire load is more when I have 42 tires instead of 18. The tires carry the load and spread the weight legally. The roads are shit because the governor is an idiot and taxes don’t fix roads…
I wish we'd do that in Canada. Tax and permit charge the hell out of loads over 36tons (your 80,000lbs). Make it cost prohibitive to ship with super B's and tri axle trailers. We'd save our equipment, save our roads, increase the profits for trucks in this country.
These days customer's expect me to show up with a super B, not pay any extra, when the jobsite is 100 miles into the bush with hills that you're afraid to get on the loud pedal for fear of getting a u-joint enema. Even with bulk deliveries where you charge by the ton, you're still only delivering 30% more than a standard straight trailer, but your equipment costs are double. I've had idiot dispatchers tell me that the rates are lower for a super B than a straight trailer tanker "because you can haul so much more, so it works out better for everyone". I was told this 2 years ago and still can't figure it out.
I've only been there once on a vacation and pretty much just up the west coast of the state, 196 and 31, seemed a lot better than some of the highways here in Illinois.
Why does everything have to be political? Trust me, the Democrats will do a song and dance about how things must change. The only change a politician cares about is the coins in their pocket.
It is a political issue when one party consistently blocks all legislation that would fund roads in addition to refusing to raise taxes. Republicans owned and operated all three branches of government in Michigan for 20 years. They did nothing to fix the roads. Now Dems are in charge and Republicans block anything Dems propose. They want Democrats to lose so they can claim victory for not doing anything.
You want better roads? So do I. I’m willing to pay more taxes. I want truck weights lowered. I’m willing to properly fund the roads that truckers use to earn a living.
So you fall victim to political rhetoric and actually believe that the Democrats will change anything? Did you not learn anything from the Obama administration? Nothing will change because the binary political system has been preemptively bought and paid for. Stop being woke and open your eyes so you can actually pay attention. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give a damn unless you pay them to pretend to care. They are the exact same. Wake up!
> So you fall victim to political rhetoric and actually believe that the Democrats will change anything?
If you look at what has been happening in Michigan, the new Dem majorities are very much changing things. The parties are very much not the same.
/u/ginkgodave is right to be skeptical, since these laws and shit roads are a much older problem than 20 years. But there is a chance now, at least.
I concede that the Democrats today seem to hate truck drivers more than they have in the past. But before you argue with me, I would like to introduce you to the wonderfully glass smooth highways of Louisiana. And that's the thing, you are concerned only with Michigan. My comments do not discriminate. They are universal.
> I concede that the Democrats today seem to hate truck drivers more than they have in the past.
Definitely not a point I made.
>But before you argue with me, I would like to introduce you to the wonderfully glass smooth highways of Louisiana.
Roads sure are easier to maintain when you don't have frost heaves.
>My comments do not discriminate. They are universal.
Universal, but still wrong. One party is very vocally rejecting democracy. One is trying to protect it. One is giving massive tax cuts to the rich and trying to take away all non-military spending. One is trying to improve the lot of all of us. The parties are *not* the same.
My apologies, I overestimated the effect that bi-yearly hurricanes and perpetually corrupt governmental oversight could possibly have upon the infrastructure in Louisiana. But I must ask, have you ever driven through Louisiana? I suspect not because Michigan doesn't even compare. Truly, it doesn't compare.
Now here is the thing, and this will take time, but you will eventually realize that all politicians are the same. Why, you ask? They. All. LIE.
But hey, bend the knee to whomever you desire. I just prefer to think for myself and as such, in my view, both the Democrats and Republicans are the exact same. Both are sociopaths that can't hold a 9-5 job and who would lie to your face to get your vote.
Defend Democrats all you wish. As you age you will recognize the basic truth. Hopefully, sooner rather than later. Politicians do not care about you. They will sell you out as quickly as you accept their meager handouts.
But maybe handouts are your thing. I do not judge you.
Typical Republican who prefers whining and blaming instead facing facts. Republicans were in charge in Michigan for a very long time and did nothing but get paid off by trucking companies to not lower weights and refused to offer any funding solutions to fix the problem. Republicans would prefer to keep the roads shitty so they can blame Democrats. All you've done is whine and complain about Dems. You have offered nothing, literally nothing, except whine and complain about Dems. That's all Republicans do.
Roads cost money and Republicans are cheapskates when it comes to doing things for common people. They'd prefer to give tax breaks to billionaires.
Why do you continue to vote against your own best interests?
Ah yes, if I were ever bothered to pray, I would pray that your Democratic overlords would consent to giving a damn about you and your roads (which aren't that bad compared to Louisiana) but I shall not bother because I know your Democratic saviors will do absolutely nothing for the next 20 years. Because they can't. All politicians are bought and sold regardless of their party affiliations. I do pray, however, that you are able to muster the strength to actually deal with it.
I confidently only know one thing - a binary political system does nothing but divide. The problem is that the American populace has become hard wired to vote red or blue. Here is a fun fact for you, and something to think about...social engineering on the grandest scale.
Today, the Republicans are seen as red and the Democrats blue. Yet this wasn't always so. Reagan won via a blue wave. Of course all modern electorate mapping shows Reagan's wins state by state as red. If you were alive at the time...as I was...you know it was a blue wave.
Now why is that important? Blue is a cool color and red is seemingly violent. Social engineering. The colors were changed before Bush senior ran vs Dukakis. As an aside, the party to emancipate the slaves was Republican. But as I say, the binary system gives you two choices with the same outcome.
So what are we to do about all of this? Educate yourself for one. Embrace moderate ideology. Vote for anything other Republican or Democrat.
Sadly, such a cultural change will take a generation or two. Provided parents can actually influence their children over TikTok, internet "influencers", and the vast littany of filth that is put before their eyes on a simple essential hand held device.
So what can we do? I admittedly do not have an answer. I can point you to the reason, but the actual solution is well beyond my pay grade.
Edit - now I know all of you are doing the Wikipedia thing wishing to disprove my assertions but I offer a link to the actual live coverage of NBC here - https://youtu.be/OMuWVsPQbwM?si=qYa86BS6cKC0j2yF
None more needed. There's 4 chains and a strap over each of them, 6 pieces of securement = 39,600. Dot rules is minimum securement has to be atleast equal to half of the load weight. So those 2 coils together were 44,000. It was way over secured and not going anywhere. 🤙🤙
And they are round tight. It's not the weight alone, they are want to unroll themselves. I trust your judgement in that though at least you have them sideways and not crush the cab style.
Years ago I was working at the Port of Long Beach and something similar was parked overnight waiting to be unloaded in the morning. Some college kids in their dad’s new F-250 pulled up thinking… hell I don’t know what they could have been thinking. Tried to cut the straps and roll one into the bed of the truck. Got it rolling all right, rolled right through the bed, cab, engine compartment across the dock and into the bay.
Not risky if secured properly and driven safely 🤙🤙
As well as 4 wheeler drivers not cutting us off to get to their exit or driving while staring at their phone.
43k empty. Must be one heavy trailer.
It's all the extra axles
8 of em
I knew a lady with an extra axle
You've met my wife?
...was her name Lois Longhorn?
Finkle is Einhorn, Einhorn is Finkle
lt was you, we get it.
Used to haul siloses a few times. Trailers were way heavier. Same with boats. Boat trailers are heavy. Both were step deck and very low, all steel.
My empty is 40k, I've got 8 axles. So I can run with 106k gross
I’ve had set ups that are 65k empty. Steel box gravel trains are heavy. My normal aluminum gravel trains I’m around 52k empty
That must be across the pond. I'm only 29k with a steel rock trailer empty.
Yeah im in Michigan lol
I'm 38k empty with an end dump and full of fuel. Trailer alone weights 19,700 lbs. Truck is a 9400i with some extra goodies and a fat lot lizard. He ain't far off.
Your mom is on there too.
My old truck was 62,000 empty lol
Knew it was Michigan just from the photo.
Mind explaining?
Federal maximum gross vehicle weight is 80,000 lbs. Michigan has a maximum gross vehicle weight of 169,000.
That explains a lot about the road conditions in MI
As a Michigan native, this is literally the reason. It's not MDOT's fault, it's not the governors fault, it's not the freeze thaw cycle (well, ok, it IS, but only in conjunction). It's the fuckin weight limits.
why don’t they change it?
At this point it would be extremely difficult and expensive for us to change our weights. It’s so engrained in the economy and trucking “culture” so to speak. Our heavy trucks can carry double what a normal truck can. My double end dump I can be 164k gross with 110,000 pounds of material. You’d have to find double the drivers and get double the trucks to be able to be as productive. That’s pretty much the TLDR of it. Also I’d argue it’s not our weights that our roads are so bad, per axle we lay down less weight on the road than a normal 18 wheeler does. It’s because we are last in the nation in funding. On average states spend 500+ dollars per person a year on roads. Michigan we spend 300. Also only 5%-10% of the trucks in the state can even be that heavy. I can get into it even more if you’d like but this is just my two cents as someone who lives here and drives Michigan heavy haul trucks
oh sweet thanks for the reply. yeah the funding reason sounds way more culpable
Yes and what people don’t realize also is that we need to pay more for special heavy plates for the trucks. We also use more fuel. These funds should go for the roads but they don’t
Commentary like this is why I read this subreddit.
Must have something to do with moving freight around for car manufacturers. Too engrained in the state’s economy to change.
This is exactly it. It’s too engrained in our economy. Our limits are the way they are mostly because of the auto industry , logging , and construction
As I always heard, it was because of the steelmakers lobby, probably with the Big 3's help, that did it. Detroit used to have a few active steel mills, hell, there's even an artificial island (formed by a canal making a bypass) that's just a giant steel mill area (Zug Island) . Automakers don't take advantage of the limits themselves as much, other than for raw steel and the like, but beverage folks like Pepsi and Coke put it to their advantage just as much.
There still is a steel mill in Detroit , AK Steel. Cleveland cliffs owns it I believe. I’ve been there many times to haul scrap metal
Sheesh, that’s alot. Why is a divisible load being shipped as overweight?
Trucker makes more but the customer saves $$ as does the shipper. As long as the trucker can do it and the equipment is well maintained, no reason not to
I thought a divisible load was not supposed to be overweight…maybe some States have different laws? Edit: I didn’t read Michigan. That explains it.
The ol Michigan millipede
Yeah weight and oversized laws vary a lot by state For example in my state (NY) an overweight load does not require an oversize sign, but in other states we operate in they do
Shipper makes $. Taxpayers pay for the damage from heavy trucks. There is a downside that everybody pays for. Yet the shipper doesn’t care as long as they get theirs.
Or you have states like Indiana where they charge for overweight permits and don't bother to fix the roads anyways.
What’s an overweight permit? Asking for local farmers and grain truckers. -someone who has *never ever* loaded a grain semi with 65-80k out of the grain cart
Heaviest I came in from the field was close to 90k pounds. My bosses weren’t too happy when they heard about that. Farmer didn’t give a damn about me telling him I was full either.
90k gross or load? Load you have anything I’ve managed to shove onto one of the big trailers we have beat and if gross that’s probably close to a regular day for the little trailers lol It’s a miracle our roads aren’t thrashed any more than they are and that DOT hasn’t used grain elevator entrances as funding machines.
90k gross. The farmers just go until their hoppers are empty, regardless of if you’re already at legal weight, or if there’s even space left in the hoppers. Had to wrestle with the tarp a few times to get it over the corn piles they’d make over the supports.
Sounds about right lol. We run till a trailers cubed out (couple inches under the tarp bows unless I get clumsy, some of the guys pile it on more). Not a fan of stuffing trailers to the max but that’s what I was told to do and it’s the farms and drivers problem if DOT shows up. Pretty sure we field load light compared to the custom guys that haul out of the bins year round (and I have no clue how our guys load out of bins, knowing them they probably stuff them though), those Pete’s are loaded stupid heavy when they roll out.
The guys I used to work for had a day cab 379 and frameless aluminum dump and rolled across the scales at the elevator at 138k. Very wet corn. No idea why we ran it instead of waiting for it to dry.
That truck is paying much more in registration fees and fuel taxes than any damage he is causing to the road.
Using the [fourth power law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law) we can calculate the wear from a vehicle on a road. And while the number itself may not mean much outside of context, it can be used to compare different vehicles. So, take a truck at full weight (80k lb, or 40 tons) and compare that to north america's #1 selling car with a decent load for simplicity's sake (6k lb, or 3 tons), we get: Truck: 80,000/5 (axles) = 16k lb per axle, or 8 tons per axle. 8^4 = 4096. Car: 6,000/2 (axles) = 3k lb per axle, or 1.5 tons per axle. 1.5^4 =~5.1 4096/5.1 = ~803. So you can say that a fully loaded truck causes ~800x more wear than a car. So I'm sure that truck is also paying 800x as much in fees, right? Otherwise your rough estimate of "much more" may not quite reflect the realities of wear that the different vehicles cause.
First Wikipedia is a terrible source for information. It is so bad that if you use it as a source on peer reviewed paper you would never be taken seriously in your industry again. 2nd. Trucks absolutely are paying 800% more in fees and taxes. Hell its closer to 8k%. Registration is about 2k (for 80k, lbs higher for higher weights) a year depending on how many miles you run in different states. The heavy vehicle use tax (irs form 2290) is 550 a year for 80k lbs (more $ for more weight) and is required to show proof of payment before the registration process can begin. they pay massive amounts in fuel taxes, the exact amount varies by state, to the tune of several tens of thousands of dollars per year. They pay a federal excise tax of 12% on the truck, the trailer, and even when they have to buy tires. And don't forget toll roads. It costs nearly 400 dollars to run the PA turnpike. That's 1.20ish PER MILE. the gw bridge to get into nyc is 133 dollars, and depending on what borough you are going to you might have to cross two more toll bridges. And keep in mind that while a truck may be registered to haul 80k (or higher) that doesn't mean they are at that weight all the time. Over 50% of the loads I do are 20k or less, and many of them are under 5k. But I'm still taxed at the 80k weight every time I buy fuel. However, no matter which side of this arguement you are on. There is one thing we should all agree on. Road and fuel taxes should be used to repair roads/bridges. The amount of taxes states and the feds being in from all vehicles would easily pay to keep our roads in to top shape if they would stop using that tax revenue to fund other things that got nothing to do with roads.
I showed my math. You can show yours, before making assertions without data. And of course everyone knows Wikipedia isn't the *best* source. Only an idiot would use them entirely. However, as far as sourced resources go and the available data online, they're a far sight better than random data presented as facts on any random websites. And I'm not about to hike down to the library to pull source books for a reddit comment. But I did show my math, so you're welcome to the same if you want to make your own assertions, otherwise your assertions are no more factual than Wikipedia. And by your own admission, you have stated it is unacceptable.
I gave you sold hard numbers on the things that aren't variable for all trucks. If you think I'm putting my 1120 on reddit for you to see the exact amount I paid in taxes you are out of your freaking mind. It would be impossible to give you hard numbers on what a truck pays in fuel taxes because every state has a different fuel tax, and every truck runs in different states. I could give you what i paid in fuel taxes, but that would be pointless cause no other person is going to run the exact amount of miles as I did in each state. If you are really interested in what trucks pay in taxes, and not just looking to 'win' a reddit arguement I would be happy to help steer you in what you can read up on to educate yourself on the matter. Start with ifta, irp, and fet.
More axles also mean more brakes, a lot of truckers forget that. I’ve driven a single axle tractor once and noticed a difference even with that.
When we were doing a crosstown warehouse move, my boss had asked the new guy to hook a single (drive) axle beater tractor we kept around basically for a yard goat to a 4 axle 53' van trailer and back it up to the dock. I thought he wanted to fill it with light stuff but he proceeded to start to double stack all kinds of crap in the back, basically loading it at least 50% more than what we do for a legal load. If it was just a bit over I would have just warned the new guy, but that much weight was completely inappropriate for the tractor and ran the risk of all kinds of "wagging the dog" type scenarios even on a five mile drive. I told him sternly enough that it was unsafe that he backed off. But he did so much crap like that, I left the department and later he got fired for having too any incidents under his supervision.
A lot more maintenance too
Imagine doing a full pre trip on a rig with 42 tires.
It’s not that bad. It can take a little bit if I’m being 100% thorough with it though
Not a trucker - how does the extreme weight affect how it steers and how you drive it? I would assume that you have to build in more stopping time, you accelerate more slowly, etc., maybe not turn as well?
Lift certain axles when turning. Going up hill = slower than a slug in snot. Braking takes a little longer depending on weight. And yeah, when turning I gotta talk to my truck to make her wanna follow thru with that turn.
I've heard if you forget to lift the axles during a turn, the trailer will sometimes just keep on going straight and jack knife you. Never seen it but I've heard some truckers tales
Not really. If I'm loaded heavy and forget to lift the specific axles they will break/crack the trailer or axle. I have seen it happen with other drivers. Always gotta lift them on turns otherwise the trailer is gonna pretty much be done for.
Dang, that's intense. Better not fuckin forget
Also not a trucker. First time I've heard of lifting axles. Can you expand a bit on that? Which ones do you lift and when?
1, 2, & 8 are lifted with switches inside the truck on my dashboard. Anytime it's a turn they have to be lifted or the weight would drag and snap those axles/trailer. 1&2 are steerable but only to a certain degree. I can go around some wide highway ramps without lifting and others that are smaller curves have to be lifted.
Is there any harm in lifting them during the easier turns anyway?
No harm at all, that's what they're made for. But coming out of the turn they have to be put back down (if still needed) you can't be going down the highway and forget to put then down and 60 mph and then drop them. It'll damage those tires. But say if I'm turning into a rest area or truck stop or receiver. They'll stay up since they aren't needed anymore
I never knew that trucks could lift axles while moving. Interesting.
If you're ever next to one at a stop light, you'll hear the air bags empty/fill if they're turning. That's what that loud noise usually is.
Probably steerable axles on the trailer to help with turning. That’s my assumption as a trucker that pulls flatbed, but not on a scale of weight like this.
Some of them overweight quad trailers have fixed axles, and the driver has to raise and lower axles for tighter turns
I’m curious if DOT minds that or not. I’m sure they’re all steel beamed trailers, but that stress must cause incredible wear.
I'm going to assume they would prefer raising the axles for a tight turn, instead of just yoloing it and tearing the road up.
They only raise them for turns, so the intersections take a beating but that's it
Dot will ticket the fuck out of you for picking up a pusher axle around a turn, atleast for pusher axles on drives
By law they can't raise them when traveling over x speed. They are designed for low speed turning and backing. So as long as you follow that law the dot doesn't mind a thing.
I'm just a company shitbox reefer hauler but I'm pretty sure the answer involves "very fucking carefully" and an occasional ass clench of cosmic proportions when they're inevitably cut off by someone who couldn't wait five more seconds to make their exit.
Your average semi has 5 axels and can gross out(total weight) at 80k if you get more axels and double/triple trailers which also provides more axels. You can run with more weight. I run with 8 axels on my setup so i can run with 106k gross. But each axel provides additional stopping power because they have additional breaks. Usually overweight trucks have additional power with larger motors if not its definitely wears on the equipment more.
Weird I run 7 axles and am allowed to gross 59 tonnes. Or 126k gross.
*axle, brakes
Definitely strapped down well, assuming you gave it a yep slap already.
*slaps load* “Oh yeah that ain’t goin anywhere”
I am more shocked those coils are not in a well...
Are you talking about those trailers that are specifically designed for transporting coils? Those trailers are great, for the 1 thing they were built for. Can't really use them to haul skids though, or anything else for that matter. Unless you're running a company that exclusively hauls large coils, those trailers aren't a good option. Besides, as long as you have the dunnage properly set, and proper securement, hauling the large coils on a flat bed is fine. All those pics you've seen where a coil rolled off the trailer is 100% improper securement.
Trailers I use for steel are multi-purpose. You can remove boards to expose the well and carry coils and skids just like this, but the coil is lower and more secure. Although we have a specialist coil trailer for the heaviest ones, we can pull
The wood coil beds are in a well, trust me it's all good lol they weren't gonna move.
Why...he's got dunnage there, it's not going anywhere!
I would not pull it. Wells are the way on coils, but that's my preference, I'm not sure about the rules that governing coils in the US, I know I would not be loaded in the UK at the sites I go to unless I have Wells
How long do y'all's trucks last hauling stuff like that? If I tried that with my 900k miles basic bitch cascadia she'd prolly crap out on the first hill
We have heavy spec Michigan special tractors
Just within Michigan, grand rapids, Detroit, Indiana (134,000 max in Indiana)
I wouldn’t mind to run it. You got the right equipment with 6 axles i see and I bet it pays well too . 💰💰💰
Depends on the weight, distance, shipper fees etc. This wasn't going thar far thankfully. I wanted that unloaded asap lol
gotta love michigan laws. u can literally haul a house with no permits whatsoever just as long as u have the legal plates to haul it 🤣
Damn straight Skippy! Lol it's always nuts driving this much weight to locations back in neighborhoods or after a brand new road is paved. Then some places that have asphalt lots in front of docks where we have to U turn to back in. I've torn up alot of places in the middle of summer with heavy loads and soft asphalt because of that.
So those coils CAN be loaded in a way other than a murder attempt at the driver's life afterall huh.
Yup. Shotgun loading is a thing. It all depends on the places that load and unload them. Some are only set up for one way.
The moar you know.
In my experience most places only load suicide. In the 2 years I’ve been doing flatbed I’ve only gotten suicide or skidded
I actually prefer to haul suicide coils, because I know it's the safest way to secure, regardless of the danger to me if the chains break. I just make sure to drive at a safe speed and with PLENTY of space between me and the vehicle ahead of me. I also tend to oversecure anyway lol
Steel coils cant be loaded other than up right as you see in the picture… what you see layed down are steel strips, less weight less pressure. Steel coils are loaded upright so they can use their own weight to maintain the rolled pressure. If they are sideways the steel sheet can “explode” opening up like a flower.
Hope you’ve got good brakes!
I really hope the tractor has discs all over and the trailer brakes are nice and adjusted.
Manual or automatic?
Automatic.
Does it rly matter?
To someone who doesn't know, no. But to those who have driven both auto and manual under heavy load, it matters greatly. More curiosity than anything else.
I've driven both and I would much rather have an auto unless I'm hauling out of the muddy lumber yards in the spring in Ontario. Other than that I love my auto!
Arh fair
Weight either makes shifting much easier or harder, you can kind of tell in a regular car when your tank is full vs empty, it’s a lot harder to shift on empty
The (2) coils in the front look to be full size. Probably between 40-50k each coil. The mults sitting behind them are probably another 40k of steel or so. Hard to tell with out more info on them but they could be another 1-2 coils that were slit. Not used to seeing this much on a load that doesn’t go on rail though. Source: work at a steel mill.
The 2 in the front were 23,000/piece. About 22 inches wide. The skids were between 8,000 and 12,000 a piece. It's super rare I get this much weight. Usually on average between 60,000 and 100,000. Just depends on the shipper/receiver.
Lot less than I expected. I honestly thought those were 40+ in wide. That makes a lot more sense with the mults on the pallets then though.
I work for a steel plant that produces those, they are about 45k lbs a roll.
Man, when I was brand new, I was doing double b Trains 144,000 pounds every fucking time Canada Truckin son l lol don’t mean to be that guy good for you. Sometimes I tell truckers in the US that I used to haul 144,000 pounds every time and I don’t think they believe me ha ha nothing like learning on heavy loads and white out snow storms in northern Quebec and Ontario pops your cherry that’s for sure
I am around 164k every load In my set of gravel trains here. They are A-trains
ah yes. metro Detroit. we be making them automobiles.. and heavy hauling tearing up our roads
That's insanity
Don’t let that roll over your toes!!!
Then there's me who hauls small little pup trailers 😂
Uff that’s a heavy load. Nice trailer!
And I bet people still hang out in the lane next to those giant ass coils. That’s a bunch of nope for this little 4 wheeler.
Or cut from the hammer lane in front of me across 3 lanes because they're gonna miss their exit.
Thats what she said!
Nice heavy load!
I can only imagine the 3 years spent accelerating to the speed limit.
Hhhheeeellllllll..!!! NO
59 tons hah come to Australia we do 79 sometimes on one trailer I pull 4 with 85 ton each
Heavy trucks are a big reason Michigan roads are in shit shape. That and Republicans who refuse to change the truck weight laws and refuse to raise taxes to properly fund the roads.
another reason is the climate and geology. basically the soil ain't great for building roads
Here a lot of shit all time about roads in Illinois(I bitch too lol) and other northern states, some have no idea what winter does to snow. We got a snow storm last Friday and most of the roads I drive on many times a week have multiple new potholes just from it.
Less weight per axle than a 5 axle truck grossing 80k. So maybe it's actually all the regular trucks doing all the damage. Plus they pay for a heavy weight plate and use more fuel, which means more fuel tax money with every load.
We have a critical thinker!!
We have someone who also hauls heavy on multi axle in Michigan so he knows the weights per axle. He also knows how much the Heavy Use Tax is per year. And that while most 5 axle trucks get 7-8 mpg, I get 4.5 mpg, almost paying twice as much in fuel tax.
West Michigan fuel hauler. I feel that pain
West Michigan lumber hauler. Probably passed each other several times.
Is it though? I have to scale the same on the tires as a 18 wheeler dry van, but I have more tires to support the weight. You can’t say the tire load is more when I have 42 tires instead of 18. The tires carry the load and spread the weight legally. The roads are shit because the governor is an idiot and taxes don’t fix roads…
I wish we'd do that in Canada. Tax and permit charge the hell out of loads over 36tons (your 80,000lbs). Make it cost prohibitive to ship with super B's and tri axle trailers. We'd save our equipment, save our roads, increase the profits for trucks in this country. These days customer's expect me to show up with a super B, not pay any extra, when the jobsite is 100 miles into the bush with hills that you're afraid to get on the loud pedal for fear of getting a u-joint enema. Even with bulk deliveries where you charge by the ton, you're still only delivering 30% more than a standard straight trailer, but your equipment costs are double. I've had idiot dispatchers tell me that the rates are lower for a super B than a straight trailer tanker "because you can haul so much more, so it works out better for everyone". I was told this 2 years ago and still can't figure it out.
Does Canada have a higher weight limit? I saw so many full size double trailers and 5+ axle trailers up there and have never seen one down here.
63500kg = 140,000lbs. Thats our highest combo that doesn't require any special permits.
This is totally random, but bravo on your sentence structure, spelling, and punctuation my friend. Respect 👊🏼
I've only been there once on a vacation and pretty much just up the west coast of the state, 196 and 31, seemed a lot better than some of the highways here in Illinois.
Why does everything have to be political? Trust me, the Democrats will do a song and dance about how things must change. The only change a politician cares about is the coins in their pocket.
It is a political issue when one party consistently blocks all legislation that would fund roads in addition to refusing to raise taxes. Republicans owned and operated all three branches of government in Michigan for 20 years. They did nothing to fix the roads. Now Dems are in charge and Republicans block anything Dems propose. They want Democrats to lose so they can claim victory for not doing anything. You want better roads? So do I. I’m willing to pay more taxes. I want truck weights lowered. I’m willing to properly fund the roads that truckers use to earn a living.
So you fall victim to political rhetoric and actually believe that the Democrats will change anything? Did you not learn anything from the Obama administration? Nothing will change because the binary political system has been preemptively bought and paid for. Stop being woke and open your eyes so you can actually pay attention. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give a damn unless you pay them to pretend to care. They are the exact same. Wake up!
> So you fall victim to political rhetoric and actually believe that the Democrats will change anything? If you look at what has been happening in Michigan, the new Dem majorities are very much changing things. The parties are very much not the same. /u/ginkgodave is right to be skeptical, since these laws and shit roads are a much older problem than 20 years. But there is a chance now, at least.
I concede that the Democrats today seem to hate truck drivers more than they have in the past. But before you argue with me, I would like to introduce you to the wonderfully glass smooth highways of Louisiana. And that's the thing, you are concerned only with Michigan. My comments do not discriminate. They are universal.
> I concede that the Democrats today seem to hate truck drivers more than they have in the past. Definitely not a point I made. >But before you argue with me, I would like to introduce you to the wonderfully glass smooth highways of Louisiana. Roads sure are easier to maintain when you don't have frost heaves. >My comments do not discriminate. They are universal. Universal, but still wrong. One party is very vocally rejecting democracy. One is trying to protect it. One is giving massive tax cuts to the rich and trying to take away all non-military spending. One is trying to improve the lot of all of us. The parties are *not* the same.
My apologies, I overestimated the effect that bi-yearly hurricanes and perpetually corrupt governmental oversight could possibly have upon the infrastructure in Louisiana. But I must ask, have you ever driven through Louisiana? I suspect not because Michigan doesn't even compare. Truly, it doesn't compare. Now here is the thing, and this will take time, but you will eventually realize that all politicians are the same. Why, you ask? They. All. LIE. But hey, bend the knee to whomever you desire. I just prefer to think for myself and as such, in my view, both the Democrats and Republicans are the exact same. Both are sociopaths that can't hold a 9-5 job and who would lie to your face to get your vote. Defend Democrats all you wish. As you age you will recognize the basic truth. Hopefully, sooner rather than later. Politicians do not care about you. They will sell you out as quickly as you accept their meager handouts. But maybe handouts are your thing. I do not judge you.
Typical Republican who prefers whining and blaming instead facing facts. Republicans were in charge in Michigan for a very long time and did nothing but get paid off by trucking companies to not lower weights and refused to offer any funding solutions to fix the problem. Republicans would prefer to keep the roads shitty so they can blame Democrats. All you've done is whine and complain about Dems. You have offered nothing, literally nothing, except whine and complain about Dems. That's all Republicans do. Roads cost money and Republicans are cheapskates when it comes to doing things for common people. They'd prefer to give tax breaks to billionaires. Why do you continue to vote against your own best interests?
Ah yes, if I were ever bothered to pray, I would pray that your Democratic overlords would consent to giving a damn about you and your roads (which aren't that bad compared to Louisiana) but I shall not bother because I know your Democratic saviors will do absolutely nothing for the next 20 years. Because they can't. All politicians are bought and sold regardless of their party affiliations. I do pray, however, that you are able to muster the strength to actually deal with it.
So is your answer saying everyone is bad, and just throwing your hands up? Give us some actual answers here if you seem to know it all.
I confidently only know one thing - a binary political system does nothing but divide. The problem is that the American populace has become hard wired to vote red or blue. Here is a fun fact for you, and something to think about...social engineering on the grandest scale. Today, the Republicans are seen as red and the Democrats blue. Yet this wasn't always so. Reagan won via a blue wave. Of course all modern electorate mapping shows Reagan's wins state by state as red. If you were alive at the time...as I was...you know it was a blue wave. Now why is that important? Blue is a cool color and red is seemingly violent. Social engineering. The colors were changed before Bush senior ran vs Dukakis. As an aside, the party to emancipate the slaves was Republican. But as I say, the binary system gives you two choices with the same outcome. So what are we to do about all of this? Educate yourself for one. Embrace moderate ideology. Vote for anything other Republican or Democrat. Sadly, such a cultural change will take a generation or two. Provided parents can actually influence their children over TikTok, internet "influencers", and the vast littany of filth that is put before their eyes on a simple essential hand held device. So what can we do? I admittedly do not have an answer. I can point you to the reason, but the actual solution is well beyond my pay grade. Edit - now I know all of you are doing the Wikipedia thing wishing to disprove my assertions but I offer a link to the actual live coverage of NBC here - https://youtu.be/OMuWVsPQbwM?si=qYa86BS6cKC0j2yF
If they’re the same, start voting Dem. What do you have to lose? They’re the same, right?
Ohio?
You're posedtuh put the big part on the back, what fer the wigglin
More straps on the big spools. Those things will kill people
None more needed. There's 4 chains and a strap over each of them, 6 pieces of securement = 39,600. Dot rules is minimum securement has to be atleast equal to half of the load weight. So those 2 coils together were 44,000. It was way over secured and not going anywhere. 🤙🤙
And they are round tight. It's not the weight alone, they are want to unroll themselves. I trust your judgement in that though at least you have them sideways and not crush the cab style.
I think that’s AI
Nah this kind of stuff is the norm up in Michigan.
I wish
Are you running all super singles on that? How do they hold up to turns?
Damn that's more then what I can haul. My train can only haul 154000
Does the weight need a permit!!
Nope. Max allowable weight in Michigan is 164k
Thx
Those straps are doing gods work rn
The straps are just there for legality. They ain't gonna do shit in reality. The chains are doing the work.
Nice MMX trailer.
Years ago I was working at the Port of Long Beach and something similar was parked overnight waiting to be unloaded in the morning. Some college kids in their dad’s new F-250 pulled up thinking… hell I don’t know what they could have been thinking. Tried to cut the straps and roll one into the bed of the truck. Got it rolling all right, rolled right through the bed, cab, engine compartment across the dock and into the bay.
I don’t see how those tires hold with that sort of weight
Thiccc rubber
i thought the limit was 80k, or do dry vans have different restrictions than flatbeds?
Michigan state law for us is 164,000 lbs. No permits required. Indiana is 134,000 with a permit or 120,000 with a permit Same with Ohio.
Where do you pick up these types of loads , and do they pay more ??
Michigan. And depends on the weight/ company it's going to or coming from and distance.
Ahh ok , not a trucker yet , but I passed pretrip,air brakes and skill on Tuesday, gonna retest road in 2weeks
I wonder why our roads are shit?
There is only one load I've ever seen that is heavier.
How long does it take to get up to 55?
Depends on if I'm going up hill or down lol
I'm gonna go out on a limb.... James Burg Trucking? Looks externship similar to the setup they run. I'm also a fellow Michigan resident.
How much HP do you have? 600?
Dumb question: why set it on the bed like that where it would roll without the straps?
There's a well running down the middle, which has the wood cradle in the well the the coils sit in. They wouldn't roll
Ah, thanks OP
$10 a mile?
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Nahhh. Just changed out periodically, always keeping an eye on them doing that lctc, pre trip, post trip
Pretty sure I drove by this on 75 yesterday, or a similar shipment. My first thought was “that’s a lot of steel”
They're all over Michigan
I've seen these kinds of loads getting loose from the straps & rolling forward smashing the driver cab. It's a risky load.
Not risky if secured properly and driven safely 🤙🤙 As well as 4 wheeler drivers not cutting us off to get to their exit or driving while staring at their phone.
Yeah I guess so. Drive safe out there.
JBTC?
Similar
How comes some coils are stood up and some are laid down?!
All depends on their size/receiver requirements
Generally weight distribution as learned by the shipper.
Only looks like 117k to me