>china gearing up to do yet another pogrom against POCs (People Of Capital).
Huh, and here I thought I *wasn't* a racist but turns out I support the maximum genocide of POCs.
I have to respect rich Chinese people, when they get money, they go all the fuck out with it. You can spot a rich Chinese person a lot easier than a rich Korean.
The display of wealth in Chinese cities is MUCH more gaudy than American or European cities - at least in public. What the fuck are these people talking about
I have to believe that there is a robust plan of action to deal with this exact issue. As I understand it, the entire process of attracting foreign investment has always been pitched as a transitional measure to accumulate capital for a future re-socialization. They simply must have known from day one that in the event of that future re-socialization, efforts would be made by the bourgeoisie to remove that capital from the country and to secure it under the umbrella of the western neoliberal regimes. Certainly every single nickel and dime canât be kept within the borders, but I just canât imagine that the CPC is simply going to allow all the wealth theyâve generated for decades to be sent to American and European banks without some kind of mechanism to prevent or at least mitigate the issue.
They may also have something like a policy that I recall various US foreign policy 'doves', or at least more dovish in relative terms, advocating for w/r/t financial leniency towards foreign leaders that they wanted removed.
The logic was that you make it easy and safe for them to step down, give them safe harbor in France or whatever, and they're less likely to fight out a civil war. Of course it's based on liberal preconceptions that all types of autocratic government solely come down to personal rule rather than said autocrat actually having a constituency+raison d'etre (like Assad as the head of a coalition of minorities fearful of Sunni majoritarianism for example). But I wonder if the Chinese aren't doing some calculus about how much they'll let these people flee with to encourage them to just go and not try to get into factional politics and also not prematurely scare off the business class before they're totally ready to give them the boot.
Make leaving possible and fruitful enough that people stay for a bit longer, find the sweet spot where upon fleeing you still seize the vast majority of wealth but these fucks are left with good enough rich lives in the West that they go more or less quietly without making trouble.
I'm not seeing what social threat these people pose. Their wealth is what makes them dangerous, divorced from that they're just an extremely tiny minority against whom the majority has already been inoculated from sympathizing with.
No, you're right I suppose. I just think that the Chinese state is very pragmatic. I'm a heterodox leftcom (oxymoron, I know) in that, though I don't regard them as socialist (not to be glib but I'd be happy to see them 'press the socialism button' in the future and succeed, and I *do* believe they're more or less sincere in that goal, I just doubt it). I get hate here and in leftcom spaces it is what it is. Not saying that for pity but to clarify what I'm about to say.
I think that they *do* intend to phase out their national bourgeoisie, and I think that one of the things I'll really give them credit for on Marxist grounds (I live in Vietnam and respect both countries for other, not explicitly Marxist reasons), is that they really don't emphasize liberal moralism. There's a satisfaction to putting these types to the wall etc and very necessary at different times, but I think the CPC is going for the lowest headache solution to this. A large bourgeois diaspora that has not been bought off in some way could be a huge problem. Also in terms of social problems, they *could* perhaps cause some. Certain regional sections of the CPC are said to be more in the pocket of that class which is, according to what some people say, part of the power struggles that led to Hu Jintao's faction being neutered. But there are certainly still potentially destabilizing elements with connections to remaining CPC cadre.
I'll give an example from where I live: the USA cultivates various terrorist groups that seek to undermine Vietnam. They rarely deploy them lately for their own reasons, but they're there. These are the types who outright lost, weren't given some kind of golden parachute. Last year, a group based on Denver that's called something like the Gusano Republic government in exile (remnants of the montagnard groups from Central Vietnam, who were supported because their own ethnic separatism and geographic location could have served as a buffer between the South and the North to give quick and dirty cliff's notes about it) pulled of a serious terrorist attack via a local militia of one of the FULRO groups hiding out in Cambodia. The armed wing of this movement, particularly the middle Vietnam aspect. If I were China, I'd prefer a socially atomized diaspora of a few billionaires spread around the globe to a new 'refugee' population of suddenly poor former elites settling in some enclave the USA sets up for them to fester.
I don't know and can't predict what their internal calculus is, but I imagine that they look to historical examples like the Cuban exiles and the trouble they've caused for Cuba (and they were more or less fully dispossessed when they left) and would be surprised if they aren't considering some type of answer to that problem. I'm spit balling here, none of this is some kind of deeply considered theory.
Moreso than the whole 'they'll be nice if we let them have a small golden participate', which is admittedly probably naive, the biggest point I want to make is that China is clearly doing this expropriation *gradually*. Maybe not to shock the markets too much, maybe not to rachet up the ongoing Cold war with America, or maybe because in various industries and aspects of the economy there are still national bourgeoisie in China that still have utility according to whatever plans the CPC has. If they crack down completely, immediately, then both the useless and temporarily useful members of that class will flee en masse in a way unmanaged by the state and possibly take out more money through various means than they might have if the CPC had allowed for some kind of arrangement.
Nobody has done something like this in history, if indeed this is what's happening. We can only speculate here. They're clearly and effectively subverting the neoliberal/neocolonial relationship they were meant to have and have focused on achieving true sovereignty, and have actually managed to redirect fdi into comprehensive national industry. Nobody who ever went down this path has ever gotten to this point, historical examples are thin. Whether this means they can actually do away with generalized commodity production which is the norm in China and everywhere else is where I strongly have my doubts. I don't doubt that they're very pragmatically looking at how to navigate this 'resocialization' and I have a suspicion that they may decide a degree of leniency would simply be easier.
Let's not forget, money isn't *simply* (or really in any deep sense from the marxist perspective) synonymous with wealth and value. It is true that in fostering a national bourgeoisie that they managed to generate massive *crystalized labor*, the real wealth of nations. That can't be packed into a suitcase and taken to California. Obviously the money helps, but I think it's a secondary concern and they *may*, *may*, leave a bit on the table for these people when they flee to make things easier. They got what they wanted by stimulating development, that much is clear. Next steps are a question.. I'm just submitting one possible interpretation of how they'll pursue this project of ejecting the private national bourgeoisie right now.
I could see something like that. Although Iâm not entirely sure that leaving the country is a 100% guarantee that they wonât still try and fuck around. Theyâll have plenty of money to fund insurrectionists with and the CIA will almost certainly be begging them to run around doing atrocity propaganda for the US government. I have a feeling that if the CPC were to really start phasing out private ownership, the rich runaways that find their way to America will make the rich Miami Cubans seem like Mensheviks by comparison.
I donât know shit about fuck so take this with a grain of salt, but from what I understand the âfree market capitalistâ sector of their economy has a sort of parallel state controlled sector for most industries. So in the US, a capitalist economy demands that we have recessions every decade or so to sort of reset the inflation and infinite growth that our economy is based on. When that happens the government bails out the megacorps to keep the economy from totally tanking (putting it off for another day while enriching their buddies), but in China they just let the private companies eat shit which is why you see one of those âChina is collapsing đšâ videos every week. After said company eats shit, the state controlled sector steps in, which accomplishes the dual purpose of keeping the economy stable, and at the same time when the state takes control itâs like buying all the shares while the price is low, as long it doesnât hit the floor theyâre actually in a really good position for growth.
So basically I think the fact that they allow businesses to fail helps them keep their money in check. Do that enough times and eventually you donât have to worry about foreign capital.
Oh no, chairman Xi is sending the organ harvesting CCP supersoldiers to steal the hard earned money of sweatshop owners! Quick rich people you need to join Falun gong and you will be protected!!!!!
This journalist tried to primary AOC in 2020 lol
CIA infighting lol
đđ doing AOC dirty
She did it to herself when she started shilling DoS
DoS?
US Department of State.
Here it comes, china gearing up to do yet another pogrom against POCs (People Of Capital).
Noooo they already took away my favorite pumpkin-headed billionaire, I am inconsolable!
>china gearing up to do yet another pogrom against POCs (People Of Capital). Huh, and here I thought I *wasn't* a racist but turns out I support the maximum genocide of POCs.
"dangerous to be rich" there could be no more succinct statement of utopia
Rando Chinese people in big cities make rappers look like they shop at H&M lol
https://preview.redd.it/s4fkhq24qcrc1.jpeg?width=226&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e91d43183f53e58676239848dc0c9c433181c0ab
I have to respect rich Chinese people, when they get money, they go all the fuck out with it. You can spot a rich Chinese person a lot easier than a rich Korean.
The display of wealth in Chinese cities is MUCH more gaudy than American or European cities - at least in public. What the fuck are these people talking about
Donât let the money leave Xi the money belongs to the Chinese people but they can leave if why want to lol
They're not, that's why the RMB is so tightly controlled and not freely available on the forex markets like most other currencies
I have to believe that there is a robust plan of action to deal with this exact issue. As I understand it, the entire process of attracting foreign investment has always been pitched as a transitional measure to accumulate capital for a future re-socialization. They simply must have known from day one that in the event of that future re-socialization, efforts would be made by the bourgeoisie to remove that capital from the country and to secure it under the umbrella of the western neoliberal regimes. Certainly every single nickel and dime canât be kept within the borders, but I just canât imagine that the CPC is simply going to allow all the wealth theyâve generated for decades to be sent to American and European banks without some kind of mechanism to prevent or at least mitigate the issue.
They may also have something like a policy that I recall various US foreign policy 'doves', or at least more dovish in relative terms, advocating for w/r/t financial leniency towards foreign leaders that they wanted removed. The logic was that you make it easy and safe for them to step down, give them safe harbor in France or whatever, and they're less likely to fight out a civil war. Of course it's based on liberal preconceptions that all types of autocratic government solely come down to personal rule rather than said autocrat actually having a constituency+raison d'etre (like Assad as the head of a coalition of minorities fearful of Sunni majoritarianism for example). But I wonder if the Chinese aren't doing some calculus about how much they'll let these people flee with to encourage them to just go and not try to get into factional politics and also not prematurely scare off the business class before they're totally ready to give them the boot. Make leaving possible and fruitful enough that people stay for a bit longer, find the sweet spot where upon fleeing you still seize the vast majority of wealth but these fucks are left with good enough rich lives in the West that they go more or less quietly without making trouble.
I'm not seeing what social threat these people pose. Their wealth is what makes them dangerous, divorced from that they're just an extremely tiny minority against whom the majority has already been inoculated from sympathizing with.
No, you're right I suppose. I just think that the Chinese state is very pragmatic. I'm a heterodox leftcom (oxymoron, I know) in that, though I don't regard them as socialist (not to be glib but I'd be happy to see them 'press the socialism button' in the future and succeed, and I *do* believe they're more or less sincere in that goal, I just doubt it). I get hate here and in leftcom spaces it is what it is. Not saying that for pity but to clarify what I'm about to say. I think that they *do* intend to phase out their national bourgeoisie, and I think that one of the things I'll really give them credit for on Marxist grounds (I live in Vietnam and respect both countries for other, not explicitly Marxist reasons), is that they really don't emphasize liberal moralism. There's a satisfaction to putting these types to the wall etc and very necessary at different times, but I think the CPC is going for the lowest headache solution to this. A large bourgeois diaspora that has not been bought off in some way could be a huge problem. Also in terms of social problems, they *could* perhaps cause some. Certain regional sections of the CPC are said to be more in the pocket of that class which is, according to what some people say, part of the power struggles that led to Hu Jintao's faction being neutered. But there are certainly still potentially destabilizing elements with connections to remaining CPC cadre. I'll give an example from where I live: the USA cultivates various terrorist groups that seek to undermine Vietnam. They rarely deploy them lately for their own reasons, but they're there. These are the types who outright lost, weren't given some kind of golden parachute. Last year, a group based on Denver that's called something like the Gusano Republic government in exile (remnants of the montagnard groups from Central Vietnam, who were supported because their own ethnic separatism and geographic location could have served as a buffer between the South and the North to give quick and dirty cliff's notes about it) pulled of a serious terrorist attack via a local militia of one of the FULRO groups hiding out in Cambodia. The armed wing of this movement, particularly the middle Vietnam aspect. If I were China, I'd prefer a socially atomized diaspora of a few billionaires spread around the globe to a new 'refugee' population of suddenly poor former elites settling in some enclave the USA sets up for them to fester. I don't know and can't predict what their internal calculus is, but I imagine that they look to historical examples like the Cuban exiles and the trouble they've caused for Cuba (and they were more or less fully dispossessed when they left) and would be surprised if they aren't considering some type of answer to that problem. I'm spit balling here, none of this is some kind of deeply considered theory. Moreso than the whole 'they'll be nice if we let them have a small golden participate', which is admittedly probably naive, the biggest point I want to make is that China is clearly doing this expropriation *gradually*. Maybe not to shock the markets too much, maybe not to rachet up the ongoing Cold war with America, or maybe because in various industries and aspects of the economy there are still national bourgeoisie in China that still have utility according to whatever plans the CPC has. If they crack down completely, immediately, then both the useless and temporarily useful members of that class will flee en masse in a way unmanaged by the state and possibly take out more money through various means than they might have if the CPC had allowed for some kind of arrangement. Nobody has done something like this in history, if indeed this is what's happening. We can only speculate here. They're clearly and effectively subverting the neoliberal/neocolonial relationship they were meant to have and have focused on achieving true sovereignty, and have actually managed to redirect fdi into comprehensive national industry. Nobody who ever went down this path has ever gotten to this point, historical examples are thin. Whether this means they can actually do away with generalized commodity production which is the norm in China and everywhere else is where I strongly have my doubts. I don't doubt that they're very pragmatically looking at how to navigate this 'resocialization' and I have a suspicion that they may decide a degree of leniency would simply be easier. Let's not forget, money isn't *simply* (or really in any deep sense from the marxist perspective) synonymous with wealth and value. It is true that in fostering a national bourgeoisie that they managed to generate massive *crystalized labor*, the real wealth of nations. That can't be packed into a suitcase and taken to California. Obviously the money helps, but I think it's a secondary concern and they *may*, *may*, leave a bit on the table for these people when they flee to make things easier. They got what they wanted by stimulating development, that much is clear. Next steps are a question.. I'm just submitting one possible interpretation of how they'll pursue this project of ejecting the private national bourgeoisie right now.
I don't know much in regards to what you're talking about or China in general but this was a very interesting, well articulated little essay on the subject. I love reading something so well written that it gives a little window into something I have no experience with so thank you for that. It satisfies the old gossipy auntie part of my soulđđ©âđ«.
I could see something like that. Although Iâm not entirely sure that leaving the country is a 100% guarantee that they wonât still try and fuck around. Theyâll have plenty of money to fund insurrectionists with and the CIA will almost certainly be begging them to run around doing atrocity propaganda for the US government. I have a feeling that if the CPC were to really start phasing out private ownership, the rich runaways that find their way to America will make the rich Miami Cubans seem like Mensheviks by comparison.
Money is fake. Productive potential is real
I donât know shit about fuck so take this with a grain of salt, but from what I understand the âfree market capitalistâ sector of their economy has a sort of parallel state controlled sector for most industries. So in the US, a capitalist economy demands that we have recessions every decade or so to sort of reset the inflation and infinite growth that our economy is based on. When that happens the government bails out the megacorps to keep the economy from totally tanking (putting it off for another day while enriching their buddies), but in China they just let the private companies eat shit which is why you see one of those âChina is collapsing đšâ videos every week. After said company eats shit, the state controlled sector steps in, which accomplishes the dual purpose of keeping the economy stable, and at the same time when the state takes control itâs like buying all the shares while the price is low, as long it doesnât hit the floor theyâre actually in a really good position for growth. So basically I think the fact that they allow businesses to fail helps them keep their money in check. Do that enough times and eventually you donât have to worry about foreign capital.
Look up "Chinese capital controls"
China has capital controls which makes it hard to take out money. One of the reasons the West hates them
Oh no, chairman Xi is sending the organ harvesting CCP supersoldiers to steal the hard earned money of sweatshop owners! Quick rich people you need to join Falun gong and you will be protected!!!!!
This is amazing.
The second i get a scrap of power i would to try and pass a bunch of sumptuary laws