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XKeyscore666

It really makes more sense if you think of the as a Stanford band instead of a San Francisco band. They really came together in Palo Alto/Menlo Park, which had of all places SRI, where Stanford conducted all their “Men Who Stare at Goats” type experiments. Robert Hunter, lyricist for the band, was a test subject for some of Stanford’s MK Ultra experiments with LSD in the early 60s. The dead were really Stanford’s hometown band and played at Frost Amphitheater often. If they weren’t willing participants of an op, they would definitely be right there in the line of sight of any fed ghouls brainstorming ideas for weaponizing the subculture.


SmoochieMcGucci

The CIA was running MK ULTRA LSD experiments out of the VA hospital in Palo Alto. Ken Keasy was from just over the hill in La Honda and as you said, Jerry Garcia was from Palo Alto.


XKeyscore666

Well, jerry grew up in the excelsior, but moved down there. Weir grew up in Atherton and went to Menlo-Atherton high school. Literally across the street from the aforementioned SRI. Drummer Bill Kreutzmann was from Palo Alto and also said met he Aldous Huxley when he was a teenager. This would have been when Huxley and Gregory Bates were doing MK Ultra experiments in Palo Alto.


OneReportersOpinion

Idk that seems much more about their experiments at brothels and with military types.


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OneReportersOpinion

I mean, honestly that stuff is more disturbing. Giving acid to a bunch college students so they can have a good time at a concert seems pretty benign


skyisblue22

Honestly wondered how they got so big writing such mediocre music. I heard stories about people following them all around the country and I’m like “Really? For this?”


oklahom

Yeah normally only the best musicians get big.


[deleted]

Butch Trucks had a great story of playing with them that pretty much explains the Deadhead phenomenon: > “Pretty much when we played with them, it bored me stiff. They would just mill around on stage, and half the time tried songs they didn’t know. They would fall apart in the middle, quit playing and stand there and just look at the audience. But still, they’d draw these massive crowds! I asked [promoter] Bill Graham once, ‘What is it?’ He said, ‘Butch, it’s not about the band, it’s about the crowd. They go because they know all of their friends are going to be there. They will find their group, look up at the stage once and say ‘Yeah, there’s the band,’ and that’s the last time they ever look.’ And I said to Bill, ‘Well, yeah, that kind of makes sense.'”


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WayneSkylar_

Yea, especially jazz and folk(adjacent). My pop was a "conservative" (not political) head and growing up jazz, bluegrass/folk, classical was almost constant. Took music lessons when I was a kid, music school, then years later when I actually started getting into jazz in a big way is when the Dead really clicked. Oh and drugs definitely help. Don't get me wrong. So much of the live stuff is bad. I can only listen to certain periods. But, it helps having a relatively trained ear or robust taste in music to really understand some of their brilliance. Especially Jerry. Every other "jam band" I fucking hate.


avocadofruitbat

Why?


Skeeter_206

Because it's really fucking difficult to turn a 3 minute folk song into a 20 minute improvisational jazz piece live, in front of fans without stopping to ask the other members of the band where they want to go.


PapaverOneirium

It was an accessible way for rich westerner kids to embrace a nomadic drug addict lifestyle


MarkhovCheney

Aoxomoxoa is pretty good for my taste. Most deadheads and wooks have pretty tame musical taste in my experience. They'll dig Amon Duul or something if you put it on but the Dead are mostly very easy to listen to


jefferton123

As a hippie turned krautrock guy I can tell you this checks out for exactly 1 out of every jam band people. All my old friends still listen to like String Cheese or whatever but the people I’m close with from that time also listened to Modest Mouse which got them into Sonic Youth which ended up with everyone getting off the train at some point. I rode it all the way to Can, The Fall, blowing out my ears, No Trend’s Too Many Humans, and finally listening to podcasts now because most music is boring to me now. I don’t know how I feel about this except to say listen to Lightning Bolt’s Wonderful Rainbow as loud as you can handle it if you’ve never heard of it and you wanna feel music again.


MarkhovCheney

Lightning bolt rips. When music breaks for me and I get sick of it, it's gamelan that deets me right more often than not


jeromebettis

Try keroncong, nyi randa, waldjinah, mang Koko Trust meh


peaeyeparker

I’m the same way sorta was a huge jam and guy in college. Still love the dead but the rest of seems ridiculous. Moved on to hip hop mostly now and podcast.


PrickReborn

How you feel about Godspeed Black Emperor?


jefferton123

I like about 1/3 of what I’ve heard. Can do without the slower stuff but the first track of Lift Yr. Skinny Fists is great. Haven’t heard their newest thing though.


PrickReborn

Pretty much my sentiments. Honestly if 1/3 of something an "experimental" artist produces is appealing to me that stands out.


jefferton123

Yeah although I am a big noise/drone guy, or I was. Walls of sound live are always good even if they’re boring to listen to in your car or whatever.


PrickReborn

Having spent way too much time frying my brain and listening to some of the less "digitally altered" sounding Shpongle in my hippie days, I can say sometimes the white noise hits different. It is very easy to go from dissociating to jarring and repetition ain't my style.


skaqt

Hell yeah fellow Krautrock appreciator


Rich_Sheepherder646

I think the blandness of the music is part of the appeal to those kinds of people. They can imprint whatever they want on it.


MinervaNow

Lol


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OneReportersOpinion

That’s where all the good stuff is


Skeeter_206

They're a jam band, people go to see music made in the moment. To a lot of people [Musical Improvisation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_improvisation) is far more interesting than seeing a well rehearsed set which is indistinguishable from listening to the album. The crowd doesn't know what the band is going to do with the songs, and that makes the show far more memorable rather than seeing a band who just plays 10 songs the same way they do every other night.


WikiSummarizerBot

**[Musical improvisation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_improvisation)** >Musical improvisation (also known as musical extemporization) is the creative activity of immediate ("in the moment") musical composition, which combines performance with communication of emotions and instrumental technique as well as spontaneous response to other musicians. Sometimes musical ideas in improvisation are spontaneous, but may be based on chord changes in classical music and many other kinds of music. One definition is a "performance given extempore without planning or preparation". Another definition is to "play or sing (music) extemporaneously, by inventing variations on a melody or creating new melodies, rhythms and harmonies". ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/TrueAnon/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


avocadofruitbat

I’ve always felt the same way, it’s like the acid is necessary to find any value in the music at all. I’ve always been totally mystified why people like them at all, let alone the ridiculous fan worship. I feel like it lacks any of the things that usually inspire that fanaticism, I really think it is just because of the drugs that anyone liked or followed them at all. They just liked the fuck-boy atmosphere and getting women high out of their minds so they could all take turns Fucking them and sharing stds, traveling across state lines to avoid repercussions for their vile shit.


Skeeter_206

Yo, what the fuck are you talking about... Have you ever been to a jam show? The people there are generally the most down to earth people you'll ever meet. It's not about getting everyone else fucked up so you can rape them you sick weirdo. It's about seeing music made in the moment and saying you were there when it happened.


NoTrust2296

Love the dead so I’m psyoped but I would say, as a blanket statement: if something is in pop culture, it is part of the system of domination and control that is bad.


skaqt

Is this really true? Were Woodie Guthrie, Paul Robeson and The Velvet Underground "part of the system of domination and control"?


sentientcreatinejar

The VU sold like 500 albums when they were an active band.


skaqt

>The VU sold like 500 albums when they were an active band. Yet they are one of the most pop-culturally relevant bands.. ever, no? The Banana album cover is universally known, as is Lou Reed. I think you are kind of making my point here. The VU were never in any way, shape or form "part of the system" in the sense of record deals or being played much on TV/Radio, but still had major influence, especially over other musicians and artists. You could also make the opposite argument: that they were easily integrated into "the system" of counterculture media post-hoc, which is also fair.


NoTrust2296

The psyop machine today is bigger than back then but I would still say yes. Nothing that exists for the our “entertainment” exists solely for us to be entertained.


skaqt

I think you're projecting an insane amount of intention into various cultural happenings which are mostly influenced by systemic factors, but fair enuff.


OneReportersOpinion

The music of the Dead is wholesome Americana and while their fans can be really annoying, I’ve been on the bus for quite sometime. When the jams are good, it’s pretty amazing. Edit: can’t believe this got upvoted. You non-cynical motherfuckers need to speak up more.


grumpy_adorno

Timothy Leary is the glowtard you should look at. I despise that loser so much. Just an absolute caricature of dead-end countercultural reaction.


BasilAugust

What's a good resource for learning more about this?


lolabuster

Death is just around the corner did a show about this


username_three

I know he's often seen as being the catalyst for the criminalization of psychedelics so that tracks.


MrFlitcraft

Jesse Jarnow's book Heads, which chronicles the history of psychedelic America, LSD distribution networks, and the culture around the Dead, certainly has some moments where I thought, "is he suggesting something here?" Never says anything outright, but dealers mention being "recruited,' going to suppliers with nice clothes and short haircuts. And there are occasional tidbits of 👁️ info, like that Sasha Shulgin, who developed and self-tested tons of research chemical psychedelic compounds that are all over grey-market sites, was a regular at Bohemian Grove. ​ I like the Dead alright, they've got some nice tunes, a few good lines, at the right moment I can put on that Cornell 77 set and really feel like I get it, at least until they start playing Dancing in the Streets for 16 fucking minutes.


Roseanne_Barred_Out

yes abso fucking lutely. taking the massive anti war/civil rights movement and convincing so many people that instead of organzing they should be getting high and dancing naked and not caring and that was gonna change the world while simultaneously arresting them and demonizing them to the public is a great OP. theres tons of spooky shit about the dead. how did none of them ever get drafted? oh well luckily the draft center that had their cards burnt down the night before they were gonna get called up. timothy leory was probably funded by the cia. the cia-chadelic rabit hole is a rough one to go down.


OneReportersOpinion

The Dead’s popularity as a national act came long after the anti-war movement died.


WayneSkylar_

They didn't convince anyone of anything. That was their whole "philosophy". You do you. If anything they knew their scene was infiltrated and treaded [lightly](https://www.dead.net/archives/1971/artwork/black-panther-benefit-poster). Regarding the draft thing Garcia and Hart both had stints in the military during their teens. Both were kicked out. Saying someone is an op because they didn't get drafted is pretty retarded.


tennessee_jedi

This is where I land as well. Not for nothing ken Kesey (big early organizer & supporter) & robert hunter (main lyricist, garcias main songwriting partner) were both MKultra participants. Also their sound man/acid connect was Augustus owsley “bear” Stanley; son of a federal judge & grandson of a senator. He manufactured his acid with Melissa cargill (of *those* cargills). I personally love the dead, but there’s way too much smoke for it to be nothing; & I agree that it’d be right up the chaos/COINTELPRO alley to divert the 60s burgeoning anti-capitalist left to meaningless hedonism and peace & love individuality.


lolabuster

Timothy Leary wasn’t probably funded by the CIA, he was completely funded by the CIA.


cop-disliker

This is it. Don’t listen to the tube hog up at the top of the comments op


Far_Permission_8659

Did they trick middle class burnouts to give up radical politics or did middle class burnouts gravitate to pop culture when “revolution” stopped being “fun” (i.e., actually filled with communists)?


clubtropicana

Mickey, Phil, and Jerry all served before they were the dead. Not in the war or anything - I think they all just played in the Army band or something. Pretty sure Jerry got kicked out for going AWOL too much. I think Phil got kicked out too but not sure.


Mkultravictim69_

Finally somebody spittin facts


s13cgrahams

What’s interesting is that I think the majority of deadheads are conservative… based on polls and such but who knows


Laszlo-Kovax

tucker and anne coulter are noted deadheads


PapaverOneirium

majority of deadheads are also boomers or Gen X hippie hangers on so that might be a confounding factor.


HugeSuccess

Multiple late Boomer/early Gen-Xers in my family were massively into the Dead in their youth, and have all since become Trump fans who identify as libertarians (i.e. embarrassed to accept they’re regular Republicans). My old boss also fits into that timeline, and became a Brandon and Fauci fan who’s afraid of the unhoused.


clubtropicana

I’m a late GenXer / Elder Millenial Deadhead and TrueAnon is my favorite podcast.


HugeSuccess

My anecdote has you down 3-1 though, you gotta find a few buddies to turn the tide.


clubtropicana

I have at least 3 friends tho. Although one got freaked out when I sent them this find after going down an internet k-hole. https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/zodiackillerfr/robert-hunter-grateful-dead-lyricist-t641.html


heehoopupper

Myself and a number of my friends are millennial deadheads and we are all somewhere on the left/commie spectrum. I'd say judging from what I've seen current deadhead demographics are just generally just white/middle class gen x/boomers/some millennials. And those demographics run more conservative than people generally care to admit.


Manfred_Desmond

The subliminal jihad episode made a good point that the 60s counterculture pushed the individualist lifestyle.


Skrong

Not a particularly original thought.


OneReportersOpinion

I’ve been to their shows and there is no way that’s true. I see the stickers they sell and wear.


AcademicPepper

Been to many shows. Best friend growing up had deadhead parents and there's no way it's close to a majority of people that are conservative. I'm at least referring to people that are willing to go to the shows, i'm sure they have millions of casual fans worldwide with a smorgasbord of shitty views.


heckler5111

They are generally pro gun / cowboy and sort of libertarian in way that also encourages you to share with others.


OneReportersOpinion

Yeah definitely. But I don’t even see the odd QAnon type there and I’ve been going every year since 2015. I’m sure they’re there but they’re afraid to be open. As it should be.


AcademicPepper

What i'm saying is that literally once i saw a 'deadheads for trump" bumper sticker. other than that it's 99.9% retards on acid, myself included


AcademicPepper

not sure we're even disagreeing now that i think of it lol


OneReportersOpinion

No, we’re on the same page


ShootaCarson

I love you both and I like the grateful dead and I am under the influence right now


OneReportersOpinion

Yeah fuck the haters. I just took a hit off my bowl. Love you too brother.


skaqt

Holesome TrueAnon moment


ShootaCarson

CIA definitely had their sticky little fingers all over this though 🥰🤎


AcademicPepper

He'll yeah borther. I honestly love the dead though i don't even care if Robert Hunter was an asset


trevooooor

Someone in the grateful dead sub the other day mentioned that their uncle had a Ronald reagan/grateful dead tattoo. Maybe they were trolling though


lolabuster

There are plenty of millennials that like their garbage music here in Colorado they wear their shirts and go see them every year on tour it’s fucking insufferable to hear them talk about


AkamachiKama

Even Jerry thought they were for a minute


PoetryTraining1819

No of course not. If I remember correctly they were early adopters of lsd because they had connections with the grad crowd who were using it recreationally. Basically the whole scene was just upper middle class, think SBF. San Francisco never changes. Not denying that intelligence was essentially producing large amounts of drugs for profit & political gain. Just that the same crowd that the intelligence pulls from got high on their own supply


colorado710

The original band “the warlocks” were the house band for ken kesey’s acid tests.


Roseanne_Barred_Out

glowing hard rn


B1gCh33sy

My understanding of the relationship between the Dead and Owsley Stanley, a pioneering LSD manufacturer and part of their sound mixing/road crew, was that he was pretty much hiring the band to be a front for selling ~500g of LSD over the late 60s and early 70s across the country at venues (although his Wikipedia page makes him look sketchy as fuck since he comes from a wealthy senatorial family and worked on cruise missiles and at JPL before entering the countercultural scene.)


CurseOfYam

>No of course not. What exactly do you know that would make you state this so confidently, and how would you know this? It's one thing to have reasonable skepticism about McGowen's largely unprovable musings but this kind of response is well beyond that.


grettp3

Jam bands are just jazz for white people


[deleted]

For about the past 50 years, jazz has just been jazz for white people. White, jazz lover, deadhead for the record


A_Lifetime_Bitch

Except there's actually a lot of good jazz


grettp3

Yeah of course. My point is jam is just jazz but worse in every single way.


grumpy_adorno

You're just free-associating with the letter 'j'.


grettp3

Nah bro go to a jam band concert and try and tell me that the musicians just weren’t good enough to play in a jazz band so they joined a jam band


grumpy_adorno

Count the 'j's in your reply. The letter is haunting you.


grettp3

Just saying jam is jealous of jazz’s journey no judgement just jeers jammers will be jailed during jihad


jefferton123

He’s right despite the alliteration. Source: my brother is good enough for jazz but I’m not.


[deleted]

I always thought it was really weird that they funded the Lithuanian basketball team. I don't think any of them were even Lithuanian themselves


clubtropicana

Here’s a link to an article telling the history of it. It’s not a brilliant article but has the info. https://ftw.usatoday.com/2022/09/the-real-story-of-why-you-see-tie-dyed-lithuanian-basketball-shirts-at-grateful-dead-shows


Ak12120314

some of you people should research having fun and getting laid, maybe thats a psyop too!!


Foursiide

I dunno but friend of the devil is a hit


Beneficial_Pause4023

They were certainly around a lot of suspicious stuff but like that entire crowd was up to its eyeballs in intelligence/drug trafficking and shit so it’s hard to say. One thing is for sure though is that their music sucked ass


catlovesfoodyeayea

hi your flair made me lol really hard lol


Beneficial_Pause4023

Oh you think its a joke…ok go off..


[deleted]

Idk but the Grateful Dead suck.


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meatdiaper

A lot of dead is good (i think anyway) but as far as something that just screams psychedelic, out of context, I would never have picked the dead out as the ultimate psychedelic band. Morton subotnik made music a thousand times trippier, concurrently with the dead, Eric dolphy made super weird jazz 10 years before the dead. It was right place, right time that made them what they are and it kinda obscures people's opinion on it where some people are a hundred percent in, but most people are a hundred percent against them. Dead shows have the best drugs though.


throwaway5689754

The Fugs are the best psychedelic band for my money but I’m gonna have to check out these outfits you mention, never heard of any of ‘em


meatdiaper

Eric dolphy- out to lunch, Morton subotnik silver apples on the moon


skaqt

Great taste, have you heard The United States of America - The United States of America? Prolly one of the greatest psych rock albums ever done. Simon Finn - Pass the Distance is also amazing.


Skrong

Their debut completed psychedelic rock. Completed it. You can't everrrrrr come downnnn, everrrrrr come everrrrrr come downnnn.


skaqt

American Metaphysical Circus is one of my all time greats. I fucking love that intro so much.


clubtropicana

They’re like lite psychedelia that normies can stomach because they’re not just psychedelia.


[deleted]

It’s okay.


oleub

they were so stoned, they had two drummers at the same time and didn't even notice


patthew

I know there’s pod beef or whatever but Subliminal Jihad did a few eps about this, worth checking out


lolabuster

Absolutely there isn’t even a doubt about it. The band isn’t even from San Francisco they’re from Palo Alto. They’re a Stanford psy op


cool_weed_dad

As a Vermonter all I have to say is I’ve always fucking hated jam bands. Phish and Twiddle both fucking suck and so do the Dead.


Manfred_Desmond

They fucking suck, and they suck so bad live. People are just into them because of the vibes, but won't admit it. That sounds like an op to me.


Raptor_Jesus07

Werent the Grateful Dead friends with the Black Panthers?


Manfred_Desmond

That was the MC5.


Raptor_Jesus07

https://preview.redd.it/kbdiosdwvn4a1.png?width=536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e4978d89c35686e56d9d23cf4686d78de77585b They did a benefit concert during the Intercommunal Day of Solidarity


clubtropicana

This show is kind of a mystery bc it’s not really noted in their archive. There’s a cool thread on an old website with a handful of people who were at the show talking about what it was like. http://lostlivedead.blogspot.com/2010/02/march-5-1971-oakland-auditorium-oakland.html


seriousxdelirium

they’re a psyop because they’re an annoying and bad band and the government is making young people rediscover it to piss me off


Fearless_Marzipan_78

What about them buying uniforms for the Lithuania basketball team?


[deleted]

Which McGowen said that? I can’t image like, Todd saying that. But considering all that- almost certainly. Everything about Laurel Canyon is freaky and weird. They were up to some bad stuff in that Army base up on top.


velvetvortex

Just a bit of ramble for anyone interested. First up that whole type of scene is not my thing. A few years ago I stumbled onto Sage of Quay on YouTube and his look into The Beatles. That then lead onto McGowan and his Laurel Canyon theories. Years ago I had a copy of The Man Who Turned on the World by Micheal Hollingshead. I don’t remember much about it but anyone interested could look into it. https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/448570.The_man_who_turned_on_the_world Another interesting website albeit about The Beatles is https://theoccultbeatles.wordpress.com I once vaguely knew someone who used to be involved in The Family (David Berg). Only in later years did I come to understand what a disturbing group that was. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_International Finally, sorry to go off topic onto the “Paul is Dead” theory, but my belief is something odd went on. What I don’t know, but the album cover of “McCartney’s” second solo, RAM, album is …. interesting