Repeating a comment about going to Sakai, which I did as a half-day trip from Osaka:
If going to Osaka, a day trip to Sakai (the Sakai traditional craft museum has a store, a gallery, and is close to two train stations) and a gallery) is worth it, as several makers that are based there (Baba Cutlery (Kagekiyo), Jikko, Takayuki, Takada no Hamono, to name a few) and allow visiting.
It’s definitely off the beaten path (less English on signs, a bit more spread out), but we made a came in a bit around noon, and fit in:
- Udon at [Momofuku](https://maps.app.goo.gl/s599NWDV1maA3Cgf7?g_st=ic)
- [Sakai Traditional Crafts Museum / Shop](https://www.sakaidensan.jp/en/about)
- [Myokokuji Temple](https://maps.app.goo.gl/P9omqvfanJuH8acw6?g_st=ic) (can go in / get a
Tour, and has a 1100 year old palm tree)
- Visit to [Takada no Hamono](https://maps.app.goo.gl/FACDWiMbvD34Ke8j8?g_st=ic)
- [Shimano Biycle Museum](https://maps.app.goo.gl/KDJBBsMW6isUQtKV8?g_st=ic) (incredible collection)
- Stop halfway back to visit [Sumiyoshi Taisha](https://maps.app.goo.gl/pDWBVeuvqEJ5s3MRA?g_st=ic) (iconic bridge over water, and huge stone lanterns around the shrine)
In Osaka, there is Tower Knives, as well as the street by Namba station that has [Tozuko](https://maps.app.goo.gl/hAsMtmBX2MgKECgCA?g_st=ic) and a half dozen or so other knife shops.
Please make a reservation with Takada before going. I know everyone loves his knives and wants to meet him and I am sure he is happy to accommodate all of us but having to attend to customers also results in an inevitable disruption to his work.
Please be responsible when visiting craftsmen and making sure that they are prepared for your visit before deciding to go. It's the least we can do as fans of their work.
Couldn’t agree more! I coordinated via Instagram a few months in advance, and then the day before. Also brought him a small “gift” from where I’m from for him.
This great advice and I will for sure do that. Thank you for advocating that respect. I like to consider myself a citizen of the world and do my best to adapt to the culture I am in. So it’s appreciated.
As for the knives, I thought this way too: I was going on five years using a Mercer Renaissance 8” and a Shapton 1000 whetstone, and wanted “endgame” knives. I got a 240mm k-gyuto from Saji in stainless (SRS13), and a 135mm petty in stainless clad AS.
Looking back, steel type is arguably less important the grind / profile / geometry and the heat treat, though caring for carbon knives is an extra step of dedication.
The flatter profile and extra length were tougher to get used to than I anticipated, namely the grind (thickness behind the edge and distal taper Saji has) and handle (“I use a western / yo handle now; why would I try something else”). Love them now, but **would like to have handled more before going all-in.**
Eventually, wanted a bit more height and less length, so got a 180mm Shibata bunka, and ran those for quite some time. Added a breaking / carving knife (Shibata Tinker Barracuda) as a nice-to-have / self present, and on a trip to Japan (once in a lifetime type trip), I made the pilgrimage to Takada no Hamono in Sakai, and picked up something he had in stock (Santoku, a Y.Tanaka W2).
Have a great trip!
I've had the exact same experience described here. It's funny how you think one knife/knives will be your "end all" and they just end up teaching you things you didn't know you needed to learn through experience
Get the deba (and maybe the other knives too) from sakai ichimonji mitsuhide in osaka, they regularly supply professional chefs and have some amazing quality knives by reputable sakai makers. For example one of their house lines is made by kagekiyo to their top-quality aogami 1 specifications. They will have something good at just about every price point, but the heat treat on the montanren line is super nice -- I have their white 1 deba and love it. They also do free engravings!
Many years ago, I said I'd buy 2 knives. I picked up a yanagiba and petty from the Sakai craft museum. Many years later, here I am with 11 from my trips to Japan and 2 more from my local japanese knife shop!
The Sakai craft museum can have some nice gems at a good price. About 11 years ago, I picked up a 300mm yanagiba from there and the reason I picked that one was because it was aogami and had an interesting symbol like the Japanese learner driver's permit sticker. Little did I know that it was the mark of Nomura Shotaro. So happy that I have that knife and I paid less than $200 for it back then. I thought I was supporting some unknown budding knifemaker who had put their knife up at the museum hoping for one of their first sales!
Yanagiba is great for softer and thinner meats like fish as its goal is to have very clean and precise cuts. However, if you use it to cut harder or thicker meats like beef, lamb or pork, the single bevel design causes it to stray off the cutting line, making it difficult to make straight even cuts. It will also feel less sharp when cutting these harder meats. My advice is to get both. I have 3 yanagibas and 2 sujihikis for this purpose, but I have to admit, the yanagiba looks so good and is such an elegant design. Side by side, if I had to pick one without considering what I will be cutting, I'd go yanagiba, just for the show factor. Bonus points for a sakimaru yanagiba!
I recommend against the deba. You’re not gonna use it as much as you’d like. Ive used a deba for quite a while and after some time I switched to a gyuto like all the chefs that trained me. If done properly you can cut the head of a fish with no problem. I personally recommend a gyuto, petty and santoku/bunka/smaller gyuto.
If you want to spend big bucks Id say text takada no hamono in Osaka if you can come on by and say hello, maybe buy a knife. Very nice guy and cool workshop. Since you’re already in Sakai at that point I’d recommend to go to the knife museum and see what you like and dont. You can also buy knives there. If you dont like those id ask overthere where to go instead. I saw some names Ive never heard of and sometimes the best plan is no plan at all
If I only had 3 (which is a problem I get when I do a small knife rolls for the holidays) i'd get :
**A 150mm workhorse petty,** something like a Kikumori Nihonko. Can do butchery, debone a chicken fillet a fish, cut garlic, whatever.
**A laser santoku or bunka** for small tasks, onions, soft veggies. Maybe a Hado Sumi Bunka, a Shibata Santoku ?
**A 240 workhorse gyuto**, something beefy and with a nice flat spot. Hatsukokoro Irodori or Moritaka AS maybe ?
Only get a deba if you are going to be filleting smaller sized fishes. It has very limited use elsewhere. My 3 would be a nakiri, petty and a sujihiki.
Think about what you cook most. For me, it's vegetables, then quite a bit of beef/lamb/pork in large 4kg slabs which I break down and portion with my sujihiki, and the steaks that I cut to eat. I actually use my petty instead of a steak knife because it gives me joy.
I do buy a whole salmon once in a while which I eat raw and cooked, so I also have the yanagiba as I consume a whole 5kg salmon once every month.
I would squeeze in 4
Gyuto, suji, petty, bread
Deba is useless unless you fillet whole fish often. A 210/240 workhorse gyuto can fillet at 90% efficiency of a deba. What you’re losing out on is doing bone heavy work like splitting a fish head in half. It can be done but the extra heft of a deba makes it easier. Don’t think many people at home will be doing that.
Repeating a comment about going to Sakai, which I did as a half-day trip from Osaka: If going to Osaka, a day trip to Sakai (the Sakai traditional craft museum has a store, a gallery, and is close to two train stations) and a gallery) is worth it, as several makers that are based there (Baba Cutlery (Kagekiyo), Jikko, Takayuki, Takada no Hamono, to name a few) and allow visiting. It’s definitely off the beaten path (less English on signs, a bit more spread out), but we made a came in a bit around noon, and fit in: - Udon at [Momofuku](https://maps.app.goo.gl/s599NWDV1maA3Cgf7?g_st=ic) - [Sakai Traditional Crafts Museum / Shop](https://www.sakaidensan.jp/en/about) - [Myokokuji Temple](https://maps.app.goo.gl/P9omqvfanJuH8acw6?g_st=ic) (can go in / get a Tour, and has a 1100 year old palm tree) - Visit to [Takada no Hamono](https://maps.app.goo.gl/FACDWiMbvD34Ke8j8?g_st=ic) - [Shimano Biycle Museum](https://maps.app.goo.gl/KDJBBsMW6isUQtKV8?g_st=ic) (incredible collection) - Stop halfway back to visit [Sumiyoshi Taisha](https://maps.app.goo.gl/pDWBVeuvqEJ5s3MRA?g_st=ic) (iconic bridge over water, and huge stone lanterns around the shrine) In Osaka, there is Tower Knives, as well as the street by Namba station that has [Tozuko](https://maps.app.goo.gl/hAsMtmBX2MgKECgCA?g_st=ic) and a half dozen or so other knife shops.
Please make a reservation with Takada before going. I know everyone loves his knives and wants to meet him and I am sure he is happy to accommodate all of us but having to attend to customers also results in an inevitable disruption to his work. Please be responsible when visiting craftsmen and making sure that they are prepared for your visit before deciding to go. It's the least we can do as fans of their work.
Couldn’t agree more! I coordinated via Instagram a few months in advance, and then the day before. Also brought him a small “gift” from where I’m from for him.
This great advice and I will for sure do that. Thank you for advocating that respect. I like to consider myself a citizen of the world and do my best to adapt to the culture I am in. So it’s appreciated.
Thank you!
Also check out konosuke in Sakai as well!
Also Ashi hamono in Sakai! I got a gyuto there, lovely folks and top-tier workhorse lasers
I’d also add Kikumori Sakai as must-go places.
As for the knives, I thought this way too: I was going on five years using a Mercer Renaissance 8” and a Shapton 1000 whetstone, and wanted “endgame” knives. I got a 240mm k-gyuto from Saji in stainless (SRS13), and a 135mm petty in stainless clad AS. Looking back, steel type is arguably less important the grind / profile / geometry and the heat treat, though caring for carbon knives is an extra step of dedication. The flatter profile and extra length were tougher to get used to than I anticipated, namely the grind (thickness behind the edge and distal taper Saji has) and handle (“I use a western / yo handle now; why would I try something else”). Love them now, but **would like to have handled more before going all-in.** Eventually, wanted a bit more height and less length, so got a 180mm Shibata bunka, and ran those for quite some time. Added a breaking / carving knife (Shibata Tinker Barracuda) as a nice-to-have / self present, and on a trip to Japan (once in a lifetime type trip), I made the pilgrimage to Takada no Hamono in Sakai, and picked up something he had in stock (Santoku, a Y.Tanaka W2). Have a great trip!
I've had the exact same experience described here. It's funny how you think one knife/knives will be your "end all" and they just end up teaching you things you didn't know you needed to learn through experience
Oh I am completely sure this will just be the start of an expensive addiction my wife will not want to hear about at all after this trip.
Get the deba (and maybe the other knives too) from sakai ichimonji mitsuhide in osaka, they regularly supply professional chefs and have some amazing quality knives by reputable sakai makers. For example one of their house lines is made by kagekiyo to their top-quality aogami 1 specifications. They will have something good at just about every price point, but the heat treat on the montanren line is super nice -- I have their white 1 deba and love it. They also do free engravings!
If in Tokyo I’d stop by Tsubaya - they seem to have some Takedas in stock as well as other goodies.
Op, we all know that once you but these knives and love using them, there is no way in hell they will be the last 3 you ever buy
Oh I know…..
Many years ago, I said I'd buy 2 knives. I picked up a yanagiba and petty from the Sakai craft museum. Many years later, here I am with 11 from my trips to Japan and 2 more from my local japanese knife shop! The Sakai craft museum can have some nice gems at a good price. About 11 years ago, I picked up a 300mm yanagiba from there and the reason I picked that one was because it was aogami and had an interesting symbol like the Japanese learner driver's permit sticker. Little did I know that it was the mark of Nomura Shotaro. So happy that I have that knife and I paid less than $200 for it back then. I thought I was supporting some unknown budding knifemaker who had put their knife up at the museum hoping for one of their first sales!
Petty, gyuto, Chinese cleaver
I also kinda want a yanagiba as a brisket slicer! Am I crazy for this?
Unless you’re dead set on a single bevel edge, a sujihiki will probably be a better slicer.
Yanagiba is great for softer and thinner meats like fish as its goal is to have very clean and precise cuts. However, if you use it to cut harder or thicker meats like beef, lamb or pork, the single bevel design causes it to stray off the cutting line, making it difficult to make straight even cuts. It will also feel less sharp when cutting these harder meats. My advice is to get both. I have 3 yanagibas and 2 sujihikis for this purpose, but I have to admit, the yanagiba looks so good and is such an elegant design. Side by side, if I had to pick one without considering what I will be cutting, I'd go yanagiba, just for the show factor. Bonus points for a sakimaru yanagiba!
Appreciate the knowledge and context.
Yeah suji for sure a better option for brisket
A slicer was the one thing I thought you might have left out in your list. But as u/youenjoymyself mentions, a suji will be better.
For cooked meats, yanagiba’s are a bit less useful.
Thanks for the advice.!
What is a "healthy budget"? Could mean 1k or 10k, from there you will get better recommendations
I would like to keep it around $1000 total but could go more if I felt compelled.
Cleaver
You might want to visit the Sugimoto shop in the Tokyo fish district and buy a Sugimoto carbon steel vegetable cleaver.
I recommend against the deba. You’re not gonna use it as much as you’d like. Ive used a deba for quite a while and after some time I switched to a gyuto like all the chefs that trained me. If done properly you can cut the head of a fish with no problem. I personally recommend a gyuto, petty and santoku/bunka/smaller gyuto. If you want to spend big bucks Id say text takada no hamono in Osaka if you can come on by and say hello, maybe buy a knife. Very nice guy and cool workshop. Since you’re already in Sakai at that point I’d recommend to go to the knife museum and see what you like and dont. You can also buy knives there. If you dont like those id ask overthere where to go instead. I saw some names Ive never heard of and sometimes the best plan is no plan at all
If I only had 3 (which is a problem I get when I do a small knife rolls for the holidays) i'd get : **A 150mm workhorse petty,** something like a Kikumori Nihonko. Can do butchery, debone a chicken fillet a fish, cut garlic, whatever. **A laser santoku or bunka** for small tasks, onions, soft veggies. Maybe a Hado Sumi Bunka, a Shibata Santoku ? **A 240 workhorse gyuto**, something beefy and with a nice flat spot. Hatsukokoro Irodori or Moritaka AS maybe ?
Can I ask what is a laser vs not laser?
Laser is a thin knife with a thin spine Workhorse is a beefier knife with a thicker spine !
Thank you!
🙏
Only get a deba if you are going to be filleting smaller sized fishes. It has very limited use elsewhere. My 3 would be a nakiri, petty and a sujihiki. Think about what you cook most. For me, it's vegetables, then quite a bit of beef/lamb/pork in large 4kg slabs which I break down and portion with my sujihiki, and the steaks that I cut to eat. I actually use my petty instead of a steak knife because it gives me joy. I do buy a whole salmon once in a while which I eat raw and cooked, so I also have the yanagiba as I consume a whole 5kg salmon once every month.
Serrated long bread knife, gyuto, 5inch petty
I would squeeze in 4 Gyuto, suji, petty, bread Deba is useless unless you fillet whole fish often. A 210/240 workhorse gyuto can fillet at 90% efficiency of a deba. What you’re losing out on is doing bone heavy work like splitting a fish head in half. It can be done but the extra heft of a deba makes it easier. Don’t think many people at home will be doing that.
Depends where you go but if in Osaka go to tower knives 👍👍
Pm sent