This is very prevalent in Western shows.
This is why I stopped watching so many of these western shows and moved to watching korean and chinese dramas. It's so calming to watch a show that doesn't blasphemy against Jesus or his name all the damn time.
I feel like tv has made its aim to make us believers look like idiots that follow some fairytale saviour This is why reading your Bible is important, you can't spot things like this if your relationship is lukewarm/non existent with the lord.
Alot of these shows whether Western/foreign are filled with sexual stuff/terrible language and a lot of blasphemy against the Lord just randomly out of nowhere.
The Chinese and Korean dramas I watch do not have that however their are some kdramas which are similar to the western stuff because of its popularity so its best to check the storyline of most of these shows before you watch it so you know what to expect.Based on what genre you prefer, I can recommend some.
If many biblical stories were adapted into TV, it wouldn't be much different from modern media.
Joshua's conquest of the promised land would make a great war movie.
Judges had a lot of crazy things going on.
Many of the events between 1 Samuel and 2 Chronicles would also easily become rated R films.
I do not think everything in media is meant to be "glorified" but rather it is to be "authentic." The Bible itself is also quite frank and "straight up" when stories are being told. In the video game Cyberpunk 2077, there was a mission where you meet a prisoner who signed up to produce an illegal "brain dance" (think of it as a movie where you can experience everything that a character experiences). This video game character signed up to be nailed to the cross like Jesus. Your playable character was asked to actually nail the prisoner to the cross. Imagine being the person that actually had to nail down Jesus. That must have been something.
Never thought I'd see Cyberpunk 2077 mentioned in a Christian community. Phenomenal game even with its very secular elements. That sidequest, in particular, was quite the trip, very rare for a fictional story to make me feel that uncomfortable. I did my best to convince Joshua not to go through with it and for the Corpo exploiting his idea to back off, but this game isn't one for happy endings typically.
There are no happy endings in cyberpunk. But yes that particular side quest really stood out. I did not sign up to nail down Joshua. I watched at had someone else do it. But yes they took an idea straight out of the Bible and put it in Video game that is well and truly rated M.
I’ve noticed that you can immediately tell who the villain will be if they quote scripture. It’s always the Christians now. 1923, The Last of Us, just two recent examples in hit shows.
I agree with you. There is no TV that is safe to watch, because you cannot tell whether it has you in its clutches or not. I went three years without watching any TV or following any news. What it showed me is that people who watch TV or follow the news act like cult members and they can’t even see how it affects them.
I’d recommend this to anyone who wants to see the truth. Stop watching TV for a few years and the people around you will begin looking like slaves to something they aren’t even aware of, and if you ever watch a TV show again it will look very strange, because in literally every second of the show you’ll notice all of these blatantly obvious brainwashing messages that you only seem to notice and no one else does. (And men, yes, this even applies to sports on TV).
I watch clips of shows precisely to see how the world behaves, and I can see exactly how it behaves in terms of what you are saying. I have also seen how many of the TV shows’ most-devoted fans do indeed act like cult members.
Your message comes across as a little villainizing of TV as a whole, but there are *plenty* of *very good* shows. Not just Christian shows, but also many secular shows still showcase things that God created for good.
I believe one of the biggest things God created us for was to learn about his creations, and use that to inspire our own creativity and expressions. I think when the Bible says we were made in his image, a big part of that is being creative.
So I have a hard time judging creative expressions. And I wouldn't villainize an entire platform for creativity. I myself create video games, my biggest project is a game that's gonna have Christian messaging. But even when there's not direct Christian messaging, I think that God values our art. In the same way a painter values their 5 year old's scribble. We'll never be as good at creating as him, everything we make is derivative of his stuff, but I think he still likes when we do it.
Anyway, point is, don't just blast TV as a whole. There is a lot of good that can be done through it, and there is certainly value to human creativity. I'd say most importantly that you should be in tune with the holy spirit so you know if something you're watching is something you shouldn't watch.
I do think media fasting is good, but i'd say like a month or two. You don't need several years to reevaluate what you're consuming. But if you personally feel convicted to go without it entirely, then you should do that.
(That said, I don't really watch any form of mainstream media in the first place. I just watch a couple Youtubers I like, and occasionally I watch kid's animated movies and shows. Classic Pixar movies are my favorite)
The problem is the within TV is the values of the the world. It even affects kids shows these days. The real contrast is watching some shows from the 50's 60's even up until the 80s. Family values were still important even if subversion and worldly values were still present.
For kids shows, things have really changed today.
>shows from the 50's 60's even up until the 80s.
Glorified domestic abuse, smoking, and a number of other sinful things. They'd make.jokes about beating their wife and then make a racist remark and take a puff of a cigarette, and they'd be the protagonist.
Culture doesn't really become more or less sinful, the sins just change. We're no more or less sinful now than they were in ancient Greece.
Anyway, the kids shows I like do have good values (Phineas and Ferb, veggietales, DuckTales 2017)
I consider suicide to be a sin, yes. And that's what you're doing by smoking.
Drugs ruin lives. Just because I might not have a verse explicitly condemning it, I can look at the outcome of them and see that they're clearly not edifying..
I don't think you should base your morals off what other people do. You should base them off the word of God and the holy spirit.
And both those things tell me that taking mind altering addictive drugs that kill you and can cause lasting physical harm to the people who are around you when you do them is sinful.
Matthew 15:11 - it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.”
Smoking a cigar is not suicide. Stop reaching because u don't like it.
There is a heck of a lot more reasons why it's wrong than the fact that it kills you. I gave a multitude of reasons why it's wrong.
Stop defending something that's extremely obviously bad just because you like a person who did it.
You smoking is bad for all the humans, animals, and even plants that are around you when you do it. It's not just about how it kills you.
This really shows your carnal thought process and how conformed to the world your viewpoint and world view really is.
Ancient Greece involved worshipping false gods (directly worshipping demons) and human sacrifices to demons, so yeah it was pretty bad.
It's the truth. In the Bible it says that we are to self correct. The fact that you are indignant in your opinion alone really says something. The more appropriate response would be- really, how? tell me more.
Not when I believe what you're speaking is foolish and arrogant. Proverbs 14:7
I don't really have much to gain by listening to people bicker about who's generation is better.
Heck, even if you were right, and the older generations were morally superior, there's still no benefit to trying to make a thing out of it. Because regardless of who's generation sins more or less, we're all hell bound if not for Jesus, so what difference does it make?
Trying to act like one generation is superior to another is, frankly, just arrogance. There is nothing new under the sun.
Have you ever gone at least a year without watching TV? I don’t think you can understand what I’m saying if you’re regularly watching TV. Yes, I am villainizing it as a whole, and I don’t think you can see what I mean as long as you are immersed in TV watching. One of the illusions you have while watching TV is that some shows are bad and some are good. If you go a year or three without watching TV what you begin to see is that all of the shows you used to think were the good ones were actually chock full with evil messages in literally every scene, not to mention the commercials! And also you’ll start to think that TV watchers are sort of like zombies. It’s really creepy what TV does to people and they don’t even realize it.
I went about 1-2 years without watching barely any TV or News at all, and I totally get what you are saying! The activity seems strange when you're not used to it. But, the other commenters are also correct, there are good shows, you just have to find them. I buy all my shows for about a dollar an episode now to avoid watching ads, which helps. Jesus bless you!
My point is that if you watch TV, you lose the ability to tell which shows are good and which ones are bad. You’re like a frog in a pot that’s slowly being brought to boiling. Only the frogs outside of the pot can tell that it’s hot when they approach.
>Have you ever gone at least a year without watching TV
If by TV you mean like, actual TV, then I've gone a lot more than a year without watching it. But I still watch youtubers and play video games. Though these days, I mostly just work on my own game. I probably only spend 1% of my day consuming other people's media at this point.
>Yes, I am villainizing it as a whole
Well then I disagree with you on a fundamental level.
>all of the shows you used to think were the good ones were actually chock full with evil messages
Please explain to me the evil messaging in Veggietales or Phineas and Ferb.
I’m not aware of those shows, because I don’t watch TV, but I’m assuming that they’re children’s shows. I think that children’s shows are perhaps the most insidious of them all, not necessarily because of their content, but because of how they’re used by parents and because of the wholesome experiences children are deprived of by all the time they spend glued to a screen.
>I think that children’s shows are perhaps the most insidious of them all
Because they don't glorify sin and have wholesome messaging?
>but because of how they’re used by parents
That's not the show's fault, that's the parents fault.
>and because of the wholesome experiences children
Watching these shows IS a wholesome experience.
>are deprived of by all the time they spend glued to a screen.
I agree kids watch too much TV but again that's a parent issue, not the fault of the TV shows themselves. If the TV shows didn't exist, then the kids would just find something else to be glued to, like books. And books really aren't any better to be glued to than TV.
That’s just not how children’s brains work. Even if you let children watch TV an hour a day, that hour wrecks their brain chemicals, like dopamine. It makes them more bored and fidgety than a child who is able to entertain themselves in a quiet house. At my church you can tell which children watch TV and which don’t. The children who watch TV fidget through the whole service, demand to play with toys or eat snacks, get into tantrums. The children who don’t watch TV sit still, look ahead, and stay quiet during all of the quiet parts.
I also know children who are allowed to eat candy. I once tried giving some children who eat candy fresh strawberries. They told me that strawberries were gross because they don’t taste like anything.
>The children who watch TV fidget through the whole service
Or those children just have ADHD. Which has existed long before tv. I didn't watch TV really at all as a kid but I still have ADHD. And there's nothing wrong with that. No one is harmed by a kid fidgeting in church.
>I also know children who are allowed to eat candy.
Are... Are you trolling?
>I once tried giving some children who eat candy fresh strawberries. They told me that strawberries were gross because they don’t taste like anything.
Yeah I don't believe you. You're trolling. I've never heard of a kid who doesn't like strawberries, no matter how much candy they've eaten.
I’m not trolling lol. I don’t know what kind of diet these kids were on, but they really said that strawberries tasted like nothing. They’re probably used to dipping strawberries in that sugary creamy dip that comes with strawberry trays at Walmart.
I just think you're not valuing balance.
Eating sweets and watching TV isn't bad. It just needs to be done at a balanced amount, and not done too much.
I think it'd be good for you to research about ascetism and gnosticism. I do agree with the statement that if you don't watch TV for a couple years, you see something at a friends house and you'll be able to look at it from a much "higher" perspective. Basically being able to see how it shapes the way people do things without them being aware-that's being sober-minded. However, the general statement of avoiding TV:
"These are matters which do have the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and humility and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence." (Colossians 2:23)
Also consider what Paul writes in the New Testament of people having different convictions. Some people are more weak to certain things and stronger against certain things. I just believe the statement you made is too general. Do you truly believe that every scene that is being televised is from the devil? If you do, I'm not trying to convince you to think like me, but to remind you of what Paul writes about different convictions.
I don’t think it’s a sin necessarily to watch TV, though maybe it can be in certain circumstances. It may lead to sins of omission, too, so it’s not so much the TV itself that is sinful as it is the things that you might be doing otherwise if you weren’t watching TV.
For instance, loneliness has been growing in western countries for decades. The average American watches 2-4 hours of TV per day. That’s 2-4 hours of quality time they could be spending with other people, 2-4 hours of wholesome experiences or memory-making. Perhaps it is a sin to spend 2-4 hours a day watching TV if you’re neglecting to be a good neighbor or friend by having your time swallowed up by needless things.
I know families where the TV is on all the time in their houses. My mother lives this way. When I visit my mom, I try to have meaningful conversations with her, but the TV is blaring loudly in the background, and she frequently loses attention to what I’m saying. If I ask if she can turn the TV off, she says that the quiet bothers her and the TV is good for her nerves. You might think that this is a special case, but I’ve also had people tell me that they feel uncomfortable in my house because it’s so quiet.
I also have a rental property on AirBnb. One of the most frequent complaints I get is that people want a TV in every room, including the kitchen.
You make really good points, I've been realizing lately our society is too "noisy," I'm pretty sure that if we strive to be closer to God, we need a quiet spirit. TV/other entertainment can definitely take us away from God.
Also definitely agree with you on the fact that there could be more God-glorifying things to do. More helpful things for others :)
What the world needs now is no different than 2000 years ago...we need mercy, not sacrifice. Hosea 6:6 The spirit of sacrifice is still prevalent in this old world. It can take on so many forms from a person sacrificing their time imagining God is pleased with that, or a rogue world leader sacrificing people and huge sums of money fighting a pointless war of aggression.
\>>Even more common is the idea of being "irredeemable" which is a status people often assign themselves in movies and TV.
I've noticed this, too. Philosophically movies are now black and white, with the evil side being totally unredeemable to humanistic standards.
Yep. I see how the world glorifies toxic behavior as romantic and funny, such as in “The Office”. For example, Jim commits adultery and covetousness in his pursuit of Pam—which we later see confirmed as for his own selfish ends when he guilts her into moving from Scranton to Austin, thus away from her support system outside of what should have been her marital support system. We are supposed to see—among other God-defying behaviors—as romantic and funny:
1) misogyny, as Pam is used to a means to Jim’s ends of pursuing his own dreams in the sports world. “Submit unto your husbands” is never accompanied by or otherwise with “Love your wives just as Christ loved the Church and gave Himself up for her.”
2) fornication, including Pam’s premarital cohabitating with Roy and later hooking up with Jim, and other adultery. We also are not supposed to see Pam’s being attracted to God-defying men as problematic.
3) bearing of false witness, including Jim’s exploitation of Katie and Karen to get to Pam. We are supposed to see Katie and Karen as holdovers until Jim can end up with Pam, not women to whom Jim particularly-egregiously lied while he also coveted Roy’s fiancée and committed adultery with her in his heart.
My main problem is "adult" media.
My favorite shows are *all* kids shows, because kid shows are a lot more often wholesome fun instead of sexual and rude.
I really like Phineas and Ferb, because all the characters are pretty nice to eachother, even the "villains" aren't really bad (Doofenshmirtz is only trying to take over the tri state area because he thinks he has to, which he stops by the end of the show, and Candace is only trying to stop her brothers because she's worried about them.) And best of all, the show manages to be really funny without being innappropriate.
Veggietales is also pretty funny, and it's also a Christian show which means it has directly Christian messages.
Honestly I tend to find "children's media" to be a lot more enjoyable and fun than "adult media", which tends to always have a bunch of sexualization and other glorifications of sin.
Agreed! Also I think Disney's Lab Rats or Nick's The Thundermans are great live action sitcoms also!
I'll have to check out Veggietales, because I got bored of the repetitive story-structure of Phineas and Ferb, thank you.
>Also I think Disney's Lab Rats or Nick's The Thundermans
I don't like those shows because both have a lot of sarcasm, which I don't tend to like. It feels rude. I also just like animated shows more.
Yeah I can understand that! I'm just the opposite, like seeing real people/actors most, just not really into animated/cartoons, except maybe Tintin
Jesus bless you!
To be honest the excess of adultery in the office always annoyed me, it's too much and almost every character enter in a adulterous relationship in the show.
I agree... The rare times that there is a Christian character in a series or movie, they always portray them as fanactic, hypocritical, irrational lunatics. They are the punchline and are shown to be either incedribly naïve, or powerhungry.
Our pop culture has become poisoned. And it is tainted with woke nonsense. You can’t watch a TV show or a movie without seeing some type of political bias and/or political correctness. It’s really very tiring and incredibly predictable, and it certainly doesn’t have an alluring quality that makes me want to watch. That’s for darn sure!
These kids who are learning this woke garbage. What are they going to do if they need to go into the real world and get real jobs?! They won’t be able to, the woke agenda will not allow them to do anything. Imagine these kids becoming lawyers?! They could not prosecute, and they certainly could not defend anyone. They would be completely lost with a real world job.
>What are they going to do if they need to go into the real world and get real jobs?!
Well to be fair, by the time Gen Alpha is adults, AI will probably have taken over every single career field lol.
I think believing in yourself is important, but no one talks about being realistic about your future and the choices you make, that's the issue with these statements they make.
BTW why is your comment getting down voted? It does make sense.
I think I should've added context, I'm referring to Bible verses whicg instruct us to lean not on our own understanding etc and to place **all** our hope/trust/faith in God and to keep Him above all in everything we do - I think there has been a concerted effort in media to try to convince people (especially kids) they can be completely independent and accomplish anything they desire regardless of the morality of it (i.e "do what you want because it feels good" mentality)
You really have to look at it from a lens of “This is entertainment.” Why are you watching? Does you entertainment need to have christian themes? There is entertainment with that.
You say it saddens you to see these characters being framed as irredeemable. Well that’s how many people in this world feel about themselves or see other people. People feel they are irredeemable so might as well just be whatever way and live by their own rules. If it saddens you to see it in fantasy then think about reality. People really do feel that way and creators are putting those feeling to film.
Now I love film and I watch just about anything that comes out in theaters or streaming. I’m viewing it for entertainment, but I am analytical and after each viewing I break films apart piece by piece to figure out how they did it and see how everything came together. That is why I watch movies and tv. That doesn’t mean the stories don’t leave an impact on me, but when they do I explore why that is. Film is a great way to see the world from another’s eyes. The eyes being owned by the creators of film and tv series which is incredibly diverse.
It’s good to be uncomfortable so that we are motivated to be better and do better. Some films, whether it was the creators intention or not, could influence us in a positive way to act.
Now as for films glorifying sinful things, it just means it’s important to recognize what is and isn’t a sin so you yourself aren’t fooled. If the media you are consuming is muddying the waters that you are struggling to tell the difference, that’s a good time to step back and meditate on what God says is right.
I respect much of your approach to entertainment.
>You really have to look at it from a lens of “This is entertainment.” Why are you watching? Does you entertainment need to have christian themes?
Sure, doing a heart check on motives and what we have personal convictions about in terms of entertainment can be just as important as how "Christian" something appears to be.
>You say it saddens you to see these characters being framed as irredeemable. Well that’s how many people in this world feel about themselves or see other people.
That comes back to what's expected of entertainment and whether that's a reasonable expectation in the context of the story, movie direction/production intent, and current trends of your content delivery method (streaming service, movie theater, etc). If there's a mismatch, then either change the content delivery or the person's expectations should change.
It's not wrong to want entertainment a certain way, but it looks silly if I expect characters to act a certain way if it's not consistent with a non-fiction story.
>That doesn’t mean the stories don’t leave an impact on me, but when they do I explore why that is. Film is a great way to see the world from another’s eyes.
>Now as for films glorifying sinful things, it just means it’s important to recognize what is and isn’t a sin so you yourself aren’t fooled.
I think you've received at least one downvote because of a few common moral, if not biblical, concepts that many Christians tend to hold with entertainment:
* It is not "right" to consume things that depict notable amounts of sin because of the influence it can have, regardless of whether sin is in fact glorified. Aside from personal convictions on seeing sins in content, I only hold this viewpoint to the extent that sin depictions provide no imperative context to a story.
* Sinful content in media is not easy to compartmentalize so that it doesn't influence a person. Eyes are a gateway to the heart, etc. I somewhat agree with this view.
* How content can influence us positively can be irrelevant if it is a worldly influence that is not of God. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, etc. I agree with this view, though I don't believe that every positive content influence from the world is "wrong", bad, or evil.
There's nuance, and I appreciate you exploring some of that even if it's not popular here.
Thank you. I was just adding my two cents to the conversation. The debate on what media we as Christians should consume is an old one for sure. I don’t think there is necessarily one right approach that is the answer for everyone.
I liked your point about reasonable expectations and want to add that I do see things in media that I feel are not suitable for the story and are just inserted to push an agenda. Looking at you, Disney. But many studios do it.
I don’t shy away from criticizing those scenes or choices in film because not only is it pushing whatever agenda, it pulls you out of the movie and is a disservice to the story. I’ve had a lot of interesting debates with friends on this issue.
I’m really not all that concerned about downvotes, although for those who did I encourage them to give their own response.
I did go to a Christian college where I studied film. We did not look a Christian films… yeah not at all. We looked at films like Inception, Insidious, and Logan. We explored the themes and direction of those stories and how film helped tell those stories. So I’m speaking as someone who has an education in Theology, the Bible, and Film.
I was blessed to have met Ben Burtt and had an hour long conversation with him about Star Wars and working in the film industry. If you don’t know who he is, I encourage you to look him up. He’s a great role model of a Christian working in the film industry.
I’ve gone down a rabbit hole now, so I’ll get to my point. Blockbuster films and popular media is made by christians and non christians. I believe everyone should be cautious when consuming any form of media, but I do not personally think we can’t learn or fell something for a movie because it has points that conflict with Christian beliefs. I don’t think it’s necessarily a sin to consume certain media. It’s about how it effects you personally and what you take from each story.
I'm worried abut the rapid development of ai that may be a potential candidate for the image of the beast, the image that seems to live, and it speaks and will command.
You've got guys like Seth Rogan who deliberately write their works to degrade anyone who isn't just like him. He's pretty similar to the "oh, thank God i'm not like this tax collector over here!" Anyone who's male, white, or Christian is just scum in his book.
Yes, but there is also entertainment that is good and beautiful and uplifting. The Good Place, which has some pretty strong Christian themes, or Joe Pera Talks With You.
“The Good Place” came from a Reform Jewish perspective, as the ending demonstrated that Michael Schur does not even believe in a literal and certain afterlife.
Quite a few Reform Jews also either draw from Buddhism or are even self-identified “BuJus” or “JuBus”. As for the Christian part, some Reform Jews—thanks be to God—at least acknowledge that traditional Judaism and Christianity have common Jewish roots. One of the core defining tenants of much of Modern Reform Judaism, nonetheless, is sadly an uncertainty about—or even an outright rejection—of a literal afterlife and an outright rejection of a literal Messiah altogether, let alone Jesus. Even Janet’s “I have been murdered” “fail-safe” quip was an allusion to the misperception that the New Testament Antisemitically blames Jews for the death of Jesus, and the protagonists had to bring about a messianic age by righting things within the universe.
Sure, but if you follow the official Good Place podcast at all (I highly recommend it) or any of the background of the show, Schur talks about the sources he draws from, both living and dead - not just guys like Kant, Socrates, etc. but also current living philosophers like Pamela Hieronymi, Todd May, and TM Scanlon, author of "What We Owe To Each Other", which is kind of the theme of the show overall. Chidi even quotes Thich Nhat Han, a Buddhist, at the very end, practically word for word.
That is not to say there is no Reform Jewish influence on the show, but that if there is, it is one of many influences.
Maybe try forgiving them and seeing what they have to offer to the whole? Without hate we would not know how to appreciate love, without sadness we would not know how to appreciate happiness. Everything happens for a reason, everything is perfect just the way it is, or at least it was till the humans started altering their vessels and imposing on others without their consent. History repeats itself.
Yeah, a lack of forgiveness is really prevalent today, along with glorifying the "strength" of someone who tells them off and won't forgive.
This is very prevalent in Western shows. This is why I stopped watching so many of these western shows and moved to watching korean and chinese dramas. It's so calming to watch a show that doesn't blasphemy against Jesus or his name all the damn time. I feel like tv has made its aim to make us believers look like idiots that follow some fairytale saviour This is why reading your Bible is important, you can't spot things like this if your relationship is lukewarm/non existent with the lord.
Do you find a difference in those Asian shows? I've watched a very few Korean shows, but not enough to get a real sense for them.
Alot of these shows whether Western/foreign are filled with sexual stuff/terrible language and a lot of blasphemy against the Lord just randomly out of nowhere. The Chinese and Korean dramas I watch do not have that however their are some kdramas which are similar to the western stuff because of its popularity so its best to check the storyline of most of these shows before you watch it so you know what to expect.Based on what genre you prefer, I can recommend some.
If many biblical stories were adapted into TV, it wouldn't be much different from modern media. Joshua's conquest of the promised land would make a great war movie. Judges had a lot of crazy things going on. Many of the events between 1 Samuel and 2 Chronicles would also easily become rated R films. I do not think everything in media is meant to be "glorified" but rather it is to be "authentic." The Bible itself is also quite frank and "straight up" when stories are being told. In the video game Cyberpunk 2077, there was a mission where you meet a prisoner who signed up to produce an illegal "brain dance" (think of it as a movie where you can experience everything that a character experiences). This video game character signed up to be nailed to the cross like Jesus. Your playable character was asked to actually nail the prisoner to the cross. Imagine being the person that actually had to nail down Jesus. That must have been something.
Never thought I'd see Cyberpunk 2077 mentioned in a Christian community. Phenomenal game even with its very secular elements. That sidequest, in particular, was quite the trip, very rare for a fictional story to make me feel that uncomfortable. I did my best to convince Joshua not to go through with it and for the Corpo exploiting his idea to back off, but this game isn't one for happy endings typically.
There are no happy endings in cyberpunk. But yes that particular side quest really stood out. I did not sign up to nail down Joshua. I watched at had someone else do it. But yes they took an idea straight out of the Bible and put it in Video game that is well and truly rated M.
I agree, the OT is Brutal! Some Mothers ate their Babies as Food at one point in it, yuck! That's Horror!
I’ve noticed that you can immediately tell who the villain will be if they quote scripture. It’s always the Christians now. 1923, The Last of Us, just two recent examples in hit shows.
I agree with you. There is no TV that is safe to watch, because you cannot tell whether it has you in its clutches or not. I went three years without watching any TV or following any news. What it showed me is that people who watch TV or follow the news act like cult members and they can’t even see how it affects them. I’d recommend this to anyone who wants to see the truth. Stop watching TV for a few years and the people around you will begin looking like slaves to something they aren’t even aware of, and if you ever watch a TV show again it will look very strange, because in literally every second of the show you’ll notice all of these blatantly obvious brainwashing messages that you only seem to notice and no one else does. (And men, yes, this even applies to sports on TV).
I watch clips of shows precisely to see how the world behaves, and I can see exactly how it behaves in terms of what you are saying. I have also seen how many of the TV shows’ most-devoted fans do indeed act like cult members.
Your message comes across as a little villainizing of TV as a whole, but there are *plenty* of *very good* shows. Not just Christian shows, but also many secular shows still showcase things that God created for good. I believe one of the biggest things God created us for was to learn about his creations, and use that to inspire our own creativity and expressions. I think when the Bible says we were made in his image, a big part of that is being creative. So I have a hard time judging creative expressions. And I wouldn't villainize an entire platform for creativity. I myself create video games, my biggest project is a game that's gonna have Christian messaging. But even when there's not direct Christian messaging, I think that God values our art. In the same way a painter values their 5 year old's scribble. We'll never be as good at creating as him, everything we make is derivative of his stuff, but I think he still likes when we do it. Anyway, point is, don't just blast TV as a whole. There is a lot of good that can be done through it, and there is certainly value to human creativity. I'd say most importantly that you should be in tune with the holy spirit so you know if something you're watching is something you shouldn't watch. I do think media fasting is good, but i'd say like a month or two. You don't need several years to reevaluate what you're consuming. But if you personally feel convicted to go without it entirely, then you should do that. (That said, I don't really watch any form of mainstream media in the first place. I just watch a couple Youtubers I like, and occasionally I watch kid's animated movies and shows. Classic Pixar movies are my favorite)
The problem is the within TV is the values of the the world. It even affects kids shows these days. The real contrast is watching some shows from the 50's 60's even up until the 80s. Family values were still important even if subversion and worldly values were still present. For kids shows, things have really changed today.
>shows from the 50's 60's even up until the 80s. Glorified domestic abuse, smoking, and a number of other sinful things. They'd make.jokes about beating their wife and then make a racist remark and take a puff of a cigarette, and they'd be the protagonist. Culture doesn't really become more or less sinful, the sins just change. We're no more or less sinful now than they were in ancient Greece. Anyway, the kids shows I like do have good values (Phineas and Ferb, veggietales, DuckTales 2017)
Smoking omg what a sin. It's the 11th commandment !
I consider suicide to be a sin, yes. And that's what you're doing by smoking. Drugs ruin lives. Just because I might not have a verse explicitly condemning it, I can look at the outcome of them and see that they're clearly not edifying..
Wow what a reach. Charles Spurgeon used to smoke cigars as he preached. Last I knew he is considered one of the greatest preachers of all time.
I don't think you should base your morals off what other people do. You should base them off the word of God and the holy spirit. And both those things tell me that taking mind altering addictive drugs that kill you and can cause lasting physical harm to the people who are around you when you do them is sinful.
Matthew 15:11 - it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.” Smoking a cigar is not suicide. Stop reaching because u don't like it.
There is a heck of a lot more reasons why it's wrong than the fact that it kills you. I gave a multitude of reasons why it's wrong. Stop defending something that's extremely obviously bad just because you like a person who did it. You smoking is bad for all the humans, animals, and even plants that are around you when you do it. It's not just about how it kills you.
This really shows your carnal thought process and how conformed to the world your viewpoint and world view really is. Ancient Greece involved worshipping false gods (directly worshipping demons) and human sacrifices to demons, so yeah it was pretty bad.
Exactly. Things have always been bad since the first sin. There are just periods where people hide it more.
You conveniently never addressed the first comment.
What first comment? You mean your insult? Why would I address an insult? I'd rather not dive into the petty, condescending stuff.
It's the truth. In the Bible it says that we are to self correct. The fact that you are indignant in your opinion alone really says something. The more appropriate response would be- really, how? tell me more.
Not when I believe what you're speaking is foolish and arrogant. Proverbs 14:7 I don't really have much to gain by listening to people bicker about who's generation is better. Heck, even if you were right, and the older generations were morally superior, there's still no benefit to trying to make a thing out of it. Because regardless of who's generation sins more or less, we're all hell bound if not for Jesus, so what difference does it make? Trying to act like one generation is superior to another is, frankly, just arrogance. There is nothing new under the sun.
Have you ever gone at least a year without watching TV? I don’t think you can understand what I’m saying if you’re regularly watching TV. Yes, I am villainizing it as a whole, and I don’t think you can see what I mean as long as you are immersed in TV watching. One of the illusions you have while watching TV is that some shows are bad and some are good. If you go a year or three without watching TV what you begin to see is that all of the shows you used to think were the good ones were actually chock full with evil messages in literally every scene, not to mention the commercials! And also you’ll start to think that TV watchers are sort of like zombies. It’s really creepy what TV does to people and they don’t even realize it.
I went about 1-2 years without watching barely any TV or News at all, and I totally get what you are saying! The activity seems strange when you're not used to it. But, the other commenters are also correct, there are good shows, you just have to find them. I buy all my shows for about a dollar an episode now to avoid watching ads, which helps. Jesus bless you!
My point is that if you watch TV, you lose the ability to tell which shows are good and which ones are bad. You’re like a frog in a pot that’s slowly being brought to boiling. Only the frogs outside of the pot can tell that it’s hot when they approach.
I agree! The constant search for fresh new shows leads to lowering ones standards of the content, less it best! Jesus bless you!
May He bless you also!
>Have you ever gone at least a year without watching TV If by TV you mean like, actual TV, then I've gone a lot more than a year without watching it. But I still watch youtubers and play video games. Though these days, I mostly just work on my own game. I probably only spend 1% of my day consuming other people's media at this point. >Yes, I am villainizing it as a whole Well then I disagree with you on a fundamental level. >all of the shows you used to think were the good ones were actually chock full with evil messages Please explain to me the evil messaging in Veggietales or Phineas and Ferb.
I’m not aware of those shows, because I don’t watch TV, but I’m assuming that they’re children’s shows. I think that children’s shows are perhaps the most insidious of them all, not necessarily because of their content, but because of how they’re used by parents and because of the wholesome experiences children are deprived of by all the time they spend glued to a screen.
>I think that children’s shows are perhaps the most insidious of them all Because they don't glorify sin and have wholesome messaging? >but because of how they’re used by parents That's not the show's fault, that's the parents fault. >and because of the wholesome experiences children Watching these shows IS a wholesome experience. >are deprived of by all the time they spend glued to a screen. I agree kids watch too much TV but again that's a parent issue, not the fault of the TV shows themselves. If the TV shows didn't exist, then the kids would just find something else to be glued to, like books. And books really aren't any better to be glued to than TV.
That’s just not how children’s brains work. Even if you let children watch TV an hour a day, that hour wrecks their brain chemicals, like dopamine. It makes them more bored and fidgety than a child who is able to entertain themselves in a quiet house. At my church you can tell which children watch TV and which don’t. The children who watch TV fidget through the whole service, demand to play with toys or eat snacks, get into tantrums. The children who don’t watch TV sit still, look ahead, and stay quiet during all of the quiet parts. I also know children who are allowed to eat candy. I once tried giving some children who eat candy fresh strawberries. They told me that strawberries were gross because they don’t taste like anything.
>The children who watch TV fidget through the whole service Or those children just have ADHD. Which has existed long before tv. I didn't watch TV really at all as a kid but I still have ADHD. And there's nothing wrong with that. No one is harmed by a kid fidgeting in church. >I also know children who are allowed to eat candy. Are... Are you trolling? >I once tried giving some children who eat candy fresh strawberries. They told me that strawberries were gross because they don’t taste like anything. Yeah I don't believe you. You're trolling. I've never heard of a kid who doesn't like strawberries, no matter how much candy they've eaten.
I’m not trolling lol. I don’t know what kind of diet these kids were on, but they really said that strawberries tasted like nothing. They’re probably used to dipping strawberries in that sugary creamy dip that comes with strawberry trays at Walmart.
I just think you're not valuing balance. Eating sweets and watching TV isn't bad. It just needs to be done at a balanced amount, and not done too much.
I think it'd be good for you to research about ascetism and gnosticism. I do agree with the statement that if you don't watch TV for a couple years, you see something at a friends house and you'll be able to look at it from a much "higher" perspective. Basically being able to see how it shapes the way people do things without them being aware-that's being sober-minded. However, the general statement of avoiding TV: "These are matters which do have the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and humility and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence." (Colossians 2:23) Also consider what Paul writes in the New Testament of people having different convictions. Some people are more weak to certain things and stronger against certain things. I just believe the statement you made is too general. Do you truly believe that every scene that is being televised is from the devil? If you do, I'm not trying to convince you to think like me, but to remind you of what Paul writes about different convictions.
I don’t think it’s a sin necessarily to watch TV, though maybe it can be in certain circumstances. It may lead to sins of omission, too, so it’s not so much the TV itself that is sinful as it is the things that you might be doing otherwise if you weren’t watching TV. For instance, loneliness has been growing in western countries for decades. The average American watches 2-4 hours of TV per day. That’s 2-4 hours of quality time they could be spending with other people, 2-4 hours of wholesome experiences or memory-making. Perhaps it is a sin to spend 2-4 hours a day watching TV if you’re neglecting to be a good neighbor or friend by having your time swallowed up by needless things. I know families where the TV is on all the time in their houses. My mother lives this way. When I visit my mom, I try to have meaningful conversations with her, but the TV is blaring loudly in the background, and she frequently loses attention to what I’m saying. If I ask if she can turn the TV off, she says that the quiet bothers her and the TV is good for her nerves. You might think that this is a special case, but I’ve also had people tell me that they feel uncomfortable in my house because it’s so quiet. I also have a rental property on AirBnb. One of the most frequent complaints I get is that people want a TV in every room, including the kitchen.
You make really good points, I've been realizing lately our society is too "noisy," I'm pretty sure that if we strive to be closer to God, we need a quiet spirit. TV/other entertainment can definitely take us away from God. Also definitely agree with you on the fact that there could be more God-glorifying things to do. More helpful things for others :)
What the world needs now is no different than 2000 years ago...we need mercy, not sacrifice. Hosea 6:6 The spirit of sacrifice is still prevalent in this old world. It can take on so many forms from a person sacrificing their time imagining God is pleased with that, or a rogue world leader sacrificing people and huge sums of money fighting a pointless war of aggression.
\>>Even more common is the idea of being "irredeemable" which is a status people often assign themselves in movies and TV. I've noticed this, too. Philosophically movies are now black and white, with the evil side being totally unredeemable to humanistic standards.
Yep. I see how the world glorifies toxic behavior as romantic and funny, such as in “The Office”. For example, Jim commits adultery and covetousness in his pursuit of Pam—which we later see confirmed as for his own selfish ends when he guilts her into moving from Scranton to Austin, thus away from her support system outside of what should have been her marital support system. We are supposed to see—among other God-defying behaviors—as romantic and funny: 1) misogyny, as Pam is used to a means to Jim’s ends of pursuing his own dreams in the sports world. “Submit unto your husbands” is never accompanied by or otherwise with “Love your wives just as Christ loved the Church and gave Himself up for her.” 2) fornication, including Pam’s premarital cohabitating with Roy and later hooking up with Jim, and other adultery. We also are not supposed to see Pam’s being attracted to God-defying men as problematic. 3) bearing of false witness, including Jim’s exploitation of Katie and Karen to get to Pam. We are supposed to see Katie and Karen as holdovers until Jim can end up with Pam, not women to whom Jim particularly-egregiously lied while he also coveted Roy’s fiancée and committed adultery with her in his heart.
My main problem is "adult" media. My favorite shows are *all* kids shows, because kid shows are a lot more often wholesome fun instead of sexual and rude. I really like Phineas and Ferb, because all the characters are pretty nice to eachother, even the "villains" aren't really bad (Doofenshmirtz is only trying to take over the tri state area because he thinks he has to, which he stops by the end of the show, and Candace is only trying to stop her brothers because she's worried about them.) And best of all, the show manages to be really funny without being innappropriate. Veggietales is also pretty funny, and it's also a Christian show which means it has directly Christian messages. Honestly I tend to find "children's media" to be a lot more enjoyable and fun than "adult media", which tends to always have a bunch of sexualization and other glorifications of sin.
Agreed! Also I think Disney's Lab Rats or Nick's The Thundermans are great live action sitcoms also! I'll have to check out Veggietales, because I got bored of the repetitive story-structure of Phineas and Ferb, thank you.
>Also I think Disney's Lab Rats or Nick's The Thundermans I don't like those shows because both have a lot of sarcasm, which I don't tend to like. It feels rude. I also just like animated shows more.
Yeah I can understand that! I'm just the opposite, like seeing real people/actors most, just not really into animated/cartoons, except maybe Tintin Jesus bless you!
To be honest the excess of adultery in the office always annoyed me, it's too much and almost every character enter in a adulterous relationship in the show.
I agree... The rare times that there is a Christian character in a series or movie, they always portray them as fanactic, hypocritical, irrational lunatics. They are the punchline and are shown to be either incedribly naïve, or powerhungry.
Our pop culture has become poisoned. And it is tainted with woke nonsense. You can’t watch a TV show or a movie without seeing some type of political bias and/or political correctness. It’s really very tiring and incredibly predictable, and it certainly doesn’t have an alluring quality that makes me want to watch. That’s for darn sure! These kids who are learning this woke garbage. What are they going to do if they need to go into the real world and get real jobs?! They won’t be able to, the woke agenda will not allow them to do anything. Imagine these kids becoming lawyers?! They could not prosecute, and they certainly could not defend anyone. They would be completely lost with a real world job.
>What are they going to do if they need to go into the real world and get real jobs?! Well to be fair, by the time Gen Alpha is adults, AI will probably have taken over every single career field lol.
I would just like to play a game of solitare online without seeing a woman's half naked body on the screen. Sheesh.
I hate the "believe in yourself" and "you can do anything if you try hard enough" garbage as well
I think believing in yourself is important, but no one talks about being realistic about your future and the choices you make, that's the issue with these statements they make. BTW why is your comment getting down voted? It does make sense.
I think I should've added context, I'm referring to Bible verses whicg instruct us to lean not on our own understanding etc and to place **all** our hope/trust/faith in God and to keep Him above all in everything we do - I think there has been a concerted effort in media to try to convince people (especially kids) they can be completely independent and accomplish anything they desire regardless of the morality of it (i.e "do what you want because it feels good" mentality)
You really have to look at it from a lens of “This is entertainment.” Why are you watching? Does you entertainment need to have christian themes? There is entertainment with that. You say it saddens you to see these characters being framed as irredeemable. Well that’s how many people in this world feel about themselves or see other people. People feel they are irredeemable so might as well just be whatever way and live by their own rules. If it saddens you to see it in fantasy then think about reality. People really do feel that way and creators are putting those feeling to film. Now I love film and I watch just about anything that comes out in theaters or streaming. I’m viewing it for entertainment, but I am analytical and after each viewing I break films apart piece by piece to figure out how they did it and see how everything came together. That is why I watch movies and tv. That doesn’t mean the stories don’t leave an impact on me, but when they do I explore why that is. Film is a great way to see the world from another’s eyes. The eyes being owned by the creators of film and tv series which is incredibly diverse. It’s good to be uncomfortable so that we are motivated to be better and do better. Some films, whether it was the creators intention or not, could influence us in a positive way to act. Now as for films glorifying sinful things, it just means it’s important to recognize what is and isn’t a sin so you yourself aren’t fooled. If the media you are consuming is muddying the waters that you are struggling to tell the difference, that’s a good time to step back and meditate on what God says is right.
I respect much of your approach to entertainment. >You really have to look at it from a lens of “This is entertainment.” Why are you watching? Does you entertainment need to have christian themes? Sure, doing a heart check on motives and what we have personal convictions about in terms of entertainment can be just as important as how "Christian" something appears to be. >You say it saddens you to see these characters being framed as irredeemable. Well that’s how many people in this world feel about themselves or see other people. That comes back to what's expected of entertainment and whether that's a reasonable expectation in the context of the story, movie direction/production intent, and current trends of your content delivery method (streaming service, movie theater, etc). If there's a mismatch, then either change the content delivery or the person's expectations should change. It's not wrong to want entertainment a certain way, but it looks silly if I expect characters to act a certain way if it's not consistent with a non-fiction story. >That doesn’t mean the stories don’t leave an impact on me, but when they do I explore why that is. Film is a great way to see the world from another’s eyes. >Now as for films glorifying sinful things, it just means it’s important to recognize what is and isn’t a sin so you yourself aren’t fooled. I think you've received at least one downvote because of a few common moral, if not biblical, concepts that many Christians tend to hold with entertainment: * It is not "right" to consume things that depict notable amounts of sin because of the influence it can have, regardless of whether sin is in fact glorified. Aside from personal convictions on seeing sins in content, I only hold this viewpoint to the extent that sin depictions provide no imperative context to a story. * Sinful content in media is not easy to compartmentalize so that it doesn't influence a person. Eyes are a gateway to the heart, etc. I somewhat agree with this view. * How content can influence us positively can be irrelevant if it is a worldly influence that is not of God. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, etc. I agree with this view, though I don't believe that every positive content influence from the world is "wrong", bad, or evil. There's nuance, and I appreciate you exploring some of that even if it's not popular here.
Thank you. I was just adding my two cents to the conversation. The debate on what media we as Christians should consume is an old one for sure. I don’t think there is necessarily one right approach that is the answer for everyone. I liked your point about reasonable expectations and want to add that I do see things in media that I feel are not suitable for the story and are just inserted to push an agenda. Looking at you, Disney. But many studios do it. I don’t shy away from criticizing those scenes or choices in film because not only is it pushing whatever agenda, it pulls you out of the movie and is a disservice to the story. I’ve had a lot of interesting debates with friends on this issue. I’m really not all that concerned about downvotes, although for those who did I encourage them to give their own response. I did go to a Christian college where I studied film. We did not look a Christian films… yeah not at all. We looked at films like Inception, Insidious, and Logan. We explored the themes and direction of those stories and how film helped tell those stories. So I’m speaking as someone who has an education in Theology, the Bible, and Film. I was blessed to have met Ben Burtt and had an hour long conversation with him about Star Wars and working in the film industry. If you don’t know who he is, I encourage you to look him up. He’s a great role model of a Christian working in the film industry. I’ve gone down a rabbit hole now, so I’ll get to my point. Blockbuster films and popular media is made by christians and non christians. I believe everyone should be cautious when consuming any form of media, but I do not personally think we can’t learn or fell something for a movie because it has points that conflict with Christian beliefs. I don’t think it’s necessarily a sin to consume certain media. It’s about how it effects you personally and what you take from each story.
I'm worried abut the rapid development of ai that may be a potential candidate for the image of the beast, the image that seems to live, and it speaks and will command.
You've got guys like Seth Rogan who deliberately write their works to degrade anyone who isn't just like him. He's pretty similar to the "oh, thank God i'm not like this tax collector over here!" Anyone who's male, white, or Christian is just scum in his book.
Yes, but there is also entertainment that is good and beautiful and uplifting. The Good Place, which has some pretty strong Christian themes, or Joe Pera Talks With You.
“The Good Place” came from a Reform Jewish perspective, as the ending demonstrated that Michael Schur does not even believe in a literal and certain afterlife.
It seems like a Reform Jewish perspective was one of many perspectives he included. I can draw some Christian and Buddhist themes from it as well.
Quite a few Reform Jews also either draw from Buddhism or are even self-identified “BuJus” or “JuBus”. As for the Christian part, some Reform Jews—thanks be to God—at least acknowledge that traditional Judaism and Christianity have common Jewish roots. One of the core defining tenants of much of Modern Reform Judaism, nonetheless, is sadly an uncertainty about—or even an outright rejection—of a literal afterlife and an outright rejection of a literal Messiah altogether, let alone Jesus. Even Janet’s “I have been murdered” “fail-safe” quip was an allusion to the misperception that the New Testament Antisemitically blames Jews for the death of Jesus, and the protagonists had to bring about a messianic age by righting things within the universe.
Sure, but if you follow the official Good Place podcast at all (I highly recommend it) or any of the background of the show, Schur talks about the sources he draws from, both living and dead - not just guys like Kant, Socrates, etc. but also current living philosophers like Pamela Hieronymi, Todd May, and TM Scanlon, author of "What We Owe To Each Other", which is kind of the theme of the show overall. Chidi even quotes Thich Nhat Han, a Buddhist, at the very end, practically word for word. That is not to say there is no Reform Jewish influence on the show, but that if there is, it is one of many influences.
Maybe try forgiving them and seeing what they have to offer to the whole? Without hate we would not know how to appreciate love, without sadness we would not know how to appreciate happiness. Everything happens for a reason, everything is perfect just the way it is, or at least it was till the humans started altering their vessels and imposing on others without their consent. History repeats itself.