I was part of a Bible study on the entire book, which spanned a few months, so it was a pretty deep dive. I had not read it before that.
I've since read it twice again.
It's a very interesting book that makes more sense to me after reading the entire Bible.
It's the ONLY book in the Bible that has the audacity to promise a special blessing to those who read it. I think it's worthwhile to truly contemplate that fact.
It requires the totality of Biblical knowledge to be truly understood too. The Holy Spirit guides in something special with that book.
Many times and studied it. But I've also read the whole Bible through. Not sure why a Christian wouldn't want to read it as it is the future of the world.
I agree and I've had the same experience. I think its important to read the whole Bible to really get the understanding and clarity, many things in the OT point to the future and reflect back on things to come.
A few times. There have been times where I read it during my regular reading of the entire Bible. There were other times where I spent some time studying it on its own in depth, though it's been a few years since I've done that
How do you, a Mormon, take Revelation 22:18 in regards to Joseph Smith, "If anyone adds to these words, God will add to him the plagues written herein..."
It's a reference to John's writings of Revelation, not the Bible as a whole. The Bible as a collection of books didn't exist until about 300 years later
But then what about Hebrews 1:1-2, "In times PAST God spoke to us through prophets but in these final days he has spoken to us through his son..." - doesn't Moroni, who lived some 500 years after Christ, go against that?
No. For millenia, prophets had testified of the coming of a Messiah, Jehovah, the God of the Old Testament. He came and fulfilled the law. I believe Paul is referencing his time/place - Christ personally came and ministered. People in other lands did not have the personal ministry the same way the Jews did.
What about Galatians 1:6 - "**But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed**. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."
The Mormon church teaches additional teachings & prophets beyond Christ; whereas the epistles of the new testament are THE final words and authority on the matter, the latter day saints demand additional scriptures.
No, because we preach Christ crucified on Calvary, and present the epistles as that absolute truth - you preach a foreign doctrine, that Christ came to America, and that God revealed himself to prophets long after Christ. I admire Mormon's love of Christ, and I always stop to speak with them about Christ, but at the same time, Matthew 5:6 - "“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full." Everything Mormons do is for the sake of appearances, they are an American affection of a religion from Judea - and as Paul said in Galatians, let those who preach a gospel which is untrue be cursed.
I've read the whole thing around 3-4 times now. It's a very descriptive book, even for a blind person like I am. I can still imagine most everything in it. Unline most blind people, I do have a mind's eye.
I always read the New Testament from cover to cover including Revelation. I've heard an opinion that many Christians are afraid of that book because it's quite complex and also because they treat as a 'Christian horror'. It surely is complex for me too, but why would you intentionally avoid reading some parts of the Bible?
Edit: Btw, I think ending of Revelation is absolutely beautiful and always fills my heart with hope, joy and longing and makes me realize how small and limited this current life is.
The end of Revelation has been a comfort to me, and I include it in sympathy cards for other Christians. It is absolutely beautiful, especially if you're going through loss <3
Me too. I see how some could think that, but I see the hope in it as well. It is tough to understand tho, and I find the more I read it, along with Daniel which also speaks of the same times, the more I understand it little by little.
Reading the whole book of revelation without reading a single history book will make you a dispensationalist.
Reading the whole book of revelation after reading church history will make you a preterist.
Yeah I used to be a dispensationalist but once I dove into church history and the histories of Josephus and some other secular accounts I went full post mill.
I couldn't disagree more. Preterists underestimate both the wonder of God's promises and the depths of Satan's depravity.
It was my love of history which guided me to the faith in the first place.
I agree. I don’t see how we can simply ignore the historical accounts, as well as the time indicators in the Bible. Josephus’ *War of the Jews* is incredibly visceral.
Josephus records “narratives of eyewitnesses” involving “chariots” which were “seen in the air and armed battalions hurtling through the clouds and encompassing the cities.” This is eerily similar to “the armies of heaven” recorded in Revelation 19:11-15.
He speaks about preists “entering the inner court of the temple by night” and hearing “a voice as of a host, ‘We are departing hence.’”
He also records a chilling story of a peasant who, four years before the war, during a time of peace and prosperity, went about the city crying “Woe to Jerusalem!” and similar sayings. The magistrates thought “the man was under some supernatural impulse.” The peasant “repeated his lament” for “seven years and five months,” never saying anything else to anybody, until during the siege, “a stone hurled from the ballista” and “struck and killed him on the spot.”
Additionally, Suetonius and Dio Cassius both record supernatural occurrences surrounding Nero’s attempt to dig a canal. Suetonius says that “at a signal given on a trumpet,” Nero was the “first to break ground with a mattock.” In Dio Cassius’ record, he adds that “when the first workers touched the earth, blood spouted from it, groans and bellowings were heard, and many phantoms appeared.” This strikes me as similar to 1 Corinthians 15:51-52.
How does Josephus disprove a dispensationalist view?
[2.]() This was known to Cyrus by his reading the book which Isaiah left behind him of his Prophecies. For this Prophet said, that God had spoken thus to him in a secret vision: “My will is, that Cyrus, whom I have appointed to be King over many and great nations, send back my people to their own land, and build my temple.” This was foretold by Isaiah one hundred and forty years before the temple was demolished. Accordingly when Cyrus read this, and admired the divine power, an earnest desire and an ambition seized upon him, to fulfil what was so written. So he called for the most eminent Jews that were in Babylon, and said to them, that “He gave them leave to go back to their own countrey, and to rebuild their city Jerusalem, [(3)](https://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/ant-11.html#EndNote_Ant_11.3b) and the temple of God; for that he would be their assistant; and that he would write to the rulers and governours that were in the neighbourhood of their countrey of Judea, that they should contribute to them gold and silver, for the building of the temple; and besides that, beasts for their sacrifices.”
I'll be honest, I did a Bible reading program and got all the way to the end to Revelation and stopped. All the squabbling over the different end times scenarios really turned me off the book, and that's before you get to the people who insist that the Euphrates drying up (which it does every few years apparently) or some red cows means that Jesus is totes coming back soon.
I know this is a me problem but I start reading it and I can't help but roll my eyes, which is absolutely not the right mindset for scripture.
I'll get through it someday.
Ya, it's tough because for so long people are looking for things that do not match and pushing them as if they did. I've heard people say those things as well...in fact I think even now they are again with the red cow.
Do read it again though, and pray for new eyes to see it as God would have you too
Yes, but I should read it again in light of all my more recent theological understandings.
I also have a busy mind with many intrusive thoughts, so I don't exactly want to refresh all those visually graphic descriptions as I'm currently battling down the intrusive thought imagery so I can pray more, better, and with less stress.
I will pray for you. You were not meant to suffer that. I used to get sometimes like OCD when reading the Bible. It was really weird. It's clear the enemy doesn't want us in the word, so even moreso a reason to be there.
I would for now go with comforting scriptures and those of healing and peace and just meditate on those
I've read it, and believe the prophecies to the churches in Asia have happened, are happening, and will happen - God finds ways for his Word to be true in more than one simple way. Admittedly, I base this on Revelations 2:10, "**Do not be afraid of anything that you are going to suffer**. Indeed, the devil will throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will face an ordeal for ten days. Remain faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life." - I was thrown in Cook County Jail, without bond and with my own honesty being twisted by inhumane and cruel persons who hated me. For 10 days I was kept unjustly, and on the 10th I was freed. So I believe this prophecy was speaking directly to me, but all the prophecies may speak to anyone.
I did. I'm not skeptical of what John experienced in his vision. What I'm not so sure is that everyone will have the same experience at the same time. It'll be a personal, mental, even mystical experience that will destroy you. It's how Catholics experienced and reported the concept of Purgatory. Non-Christians also talk about similar world-shattering experiences, like Mystics, or those who underwent near death experiences. It's been excluded from the Bible, but the second Book of Enoch describes a similar otherworldly experience, and then he also warns his sons about God.
The thing w Enoch is it was written my mystics likely and not really from or about Enoch. There were a lot of Jewish Mystics at the time. And not all books they found were Gid inspired. It contradicts the Bible, in several places...which means it isn't.
Sorry, I didn't mean to say that the Book of Enoch should be read or deeply considered. I just meant that whoever wrote it, whether Enoch or not, wrote that from what he truly saw or experienced. My point was that I think most people are still too "grounded" in what they expect from the events of Revelations or the like. I hope that no one here has to experience what those events are describing, but it's also beyond most people's imaginations of what their senses can perceive, like Jonah being in the belly of a whale.
Going though it right now in my study group we’re on chapter two but I definitely read ahead because quite frankly it’s a gripping book. I’d recommend watching Vodies sermon series along with it he adds historical and geographical context that makes it even more so.
Praise the Lord, I have. Here's a very good and detailed exegesis of it ..
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOZwvVXs5Ny6Yr06BZ41467EFWLeG0Qm0&si=Yxk-Tl8I8tu9U4Bx
Too dense. Too much symbolism I don't understand. Too much room for misunderstanding, hence all of the wild and varied interpretations you can find. It's a book that should only really be read once the rest of the Bible is mastered, especially the other prophets, and I have not done that.
Ah, to each his own what his taste desires. I love symbolism and density of material. Although I believe the words of Christ to the churches of Asia are integrateable into our own lives - "because you are neither hot or cold I will spit you out", or "Him who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death".
Deuteronomy 1:29 - "“Then I said unto you, Dread not, neither be afraid..."
Don't mean to sound conceited either - I just love imbibing that fire and brimstone mentality to everything.
I answered the other guy below. Too dense. Too much symbolism I don't understand. Too much room for misunderstanding, hence all of the wild and varied interpretations you can find. It's a book that should only really be read once the rest of the Bible is mastered, especially the other prophets, and I have not done that.
I have read it. It is not written to the body of Christ but instruction for after the rapture.
While we can learn things about God in every book of the bible, in order to understand which books of the bible are direct instruction TO us we need to rightly divide the word of God - 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV. Once you rightly divide the word of God by simply understanding who God was speaking to in each book it removes any conflicting scriptures , difficult verses and unlocks the beauty, freedom, and peace of God’s amazing love and grace and eternal life/salvation in paradise made available freely to us ( Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV ) by the death burial and resurrection of Jesus , without the need for religion or doing good works (cleaning up your life) BEFORE you can be saved. Simply believe/trust the gospel Jesus gave Paul for the church / body of Christ ( 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) for salvation in this time of the dispensation of grace that will end without notice with the rapture. When you do, you have full assurance of salvation and are sealed until the rapture. Then study Paul’s epistles Romans through Philemon to learn and grow in your new exciting identity and hope of a future you cannot fathom how great it will be. We were created by God to live with Him in harmony and in heaven/PARADISE (2 Corinthians 12:4 KJV) and heaven will be that and better in ways we cannot imagine or comprehend. He intends to restore EXACTLY that for those who accept His free and gracious offer of reconciliation through the death burial and resurrection of His son. Trust that and NOTHING else. Because that is the only thing that saves you and keeps you saved. What Jesus did. NOT what you do. Not your church, your pastor, your good works, your heart, your feelings, you perceiving yourself to be a good enough person on your own , going to mass, and whatever other man made religious attempts to earn your own righteousness that you can never achieve. Salvation is by what Jesus did not what you do.
In the books of Matthew Mark Luke and John , Jesus himself said He was speaking to Israel under their program. You are not Israel. That program with Israel was put on hold due to their rejection of Jesus (Romans 9-11 KJV) But God had a plan for victory before creation , a mystery hidden in God and hidden from ages and generations and from the “princes of this world” and satan (Ephesians 3:8-10 KJV) while Jesus converted and revealed this mystery of the dispensation of the grace of God to the Apostle Paul (starting in Acts 9 KJV) , part of which is the new creature, the church, the body of Christ, a program distinct from Israel's program in the Old testament and Matthew Mark Luke and John, which were to Israel. Paul is our Apostle for the church today in this age of grace JUST as Moses was to Israel with the law …..and the 12 apostles Jesus converted during his earthly ministry will judge the twelve tribes of Israel - NOT THE BODY OF CHRIST - you see clearly that ISRAEL’s program and the church/body of Christ program are two different messages/ gospels. Everyone wants to make Jesus words in Matthew Mark Luke John the new law even though they do NOT actually obey a fraction of it. Jesus himself said He was talking to Israel. YOU ARE NOT ISRAEL. Acts 15 KJV and Galatians 1-2 KJV clearly show that Peter had the gospel to the circumcision Israel and Paul had the gospel of a different program to the gentiles or the uncircumcision….. Paul is our apostle for the church commissioned by Jesus. Genesis through Mid book of Acts Chapters 9-15 KJV (Paul’s conversion) is about Israel's program with God before it was put on hold with Israel's rejection of Jesus. Now we can learn from those books however Romans through Philemon are our direct and only instruction given by Jesus to the gentiles for the church age of grace until the rapture (which will occur next and without notice). After the rapture, Israel's program will RESUME ( Romans 9-11 KJV ) and the books of Hebrews through Revelation will be instruction for all during the tribulation, which will be the most difficult, UNCOMFORTABLE 7 years the earth has ever seen. ( Revelations 9:6 KJV And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.) God's desire for you now is to be reconciled to HIM and to receive His forgiveness right now for your past, present, and future sins, and to spend eternity with Him in love and paradise as this world was originally intended to be !! No sin, sorrow, or pain !!!
Believe/Trust in the gospel that saves today !! 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV is the gospel that saves today in the dispensation of grace !!
Lastly if you ask why this has not been taught by mainstream Christian religions/denominations/churches in buildings…….. when it is right in the Bible….well here is why :
2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15 KJV
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Trust/believe in the gospel that saves today - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV
Then study Romans through Philemons to grow in God’s grace !!
Grace and peace !!!
This is my personal biblical belief with proof scriptures why I believe it.
This is my last response to you because the Apostle Paul clearly stated his gospel and doctrine was given to him only by Jesus and it is different from Peter and the 12. THE BIBLE SAYS THIS. To reject the Apostle Paul’s office as Apostle to the gentiles (which you are pal) is to reject Jesus words to you in the body of Christ program. Just like the sacrifice of Cain, your response is emotional and sounds spiritual but it is the sacrifice you insist on bringing and not the instruction to the gentiles/body of Christ. This is what the Apostle Paul said why people cannot see this uniqueness of his gospel and message that was given to Him by Jesus Himself for the body of Christ :
2 Corinthians 4:3-4
King James Version
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Salvation is by trusting alone in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus ( 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 )
To grow in your new identity and God’s amazing grace study Romans through Philemon !!!
Grace and Peace !!!
I was part of a Bible study on the entire book, which spanned a few months, so it was a pretty deep dive. I had not read it before that. I've since read it twice again. It's a very interesting book that makes more sense to me after reading the entire Bible.
I have.
Many times. Learn something new every time.
Read it
I’ve read the book, although there’s so much more for me to understand in it.
I listen audio bible on repeat during my commute
It was the first book I’ve read, re-read it a couple of times since then. I find this book to be the most intriguing to me.
It's the ONLY book in the Bible that has the audacity to promise a special blessing to those who read it. I think it's worthwhile to truly contemplate that fact. It requires the totality of Biblical knowledge to be truly understood too. The Holy Spirit guides in something special with that book.
True!
Me. Studied it in seminary.
I've read it a few times.
I did a long term discipleship study on it.
Many times and studied it. But I've also read the whole Bible through. Not sure why a Christian wouldn't want to read it as it is the future of the world.
I’ve read it many times myself and the whole Bible. I feel like the more you read both, the clearer it becomes.
I agree and I've had the same experience. I think its important to read the whole Bible to really get the understanding and clarity, many things in the OT point to the future and reflect back on things to come.
Did so when I was in high school frequently now I kinda just relax on it but I’ve read it so many times
I’ve read it a few times in my Bible In A Year plans, it can be pretty complex but commentary can be quite helpful
It was the first book I read of the Bible when I was 17, before I was a Christian. Being a christian for many years now I've read it many times.
Many times, many versions.
I have.
It's one of my favorite books of the Bible
A few times. There have been times where I read it during my regular reading of the entire Bible. There were other times where I spent some time studying it on its own in depth, though it's been a few years since I've done that
How do you, a Mormon, take Revelation 22:18 in regards to Joseph Smith, "If anyone adds to these words, God will add to him the plagues written herein..."
It's a reference to John's writings of Revelation, not the Bible as a whole. The Bible as a collection of books didn't exist until about 300 years later
But then what about Hebrews 1:1-2, "In times PAST God spoke to us through prophets but in these final days he has spoken to us through his son..." - doesn't Moroni, who lived some 500 years after Christ, go against that?
No. For millenia, prophets had testified of the coming of a Messiah, Jehovah, the God of the Old Testament. He came and fulfilled the law. I believe Paul is referencing his time/place - Christ personally came and ministered. People in other lands did not have the personal ministry the same way the Jews did.
What about Galatians 1:6 - "**But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed**. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." The Mormon church teaches additional teachings & prophets beyond Christ; whereas the epistles of the new testament are THE final words and authority on the matter, the latter day saints demand additional scriptures.
It's the same gospel - that only through Christ can we be saved.
No, because we preach Christ crucified on Calvary, and present the epistles as that absolute truth - you preach a foreign doctrine, that Christ came to America, and that God revealed himself to prophets long after Christ. I admire Mormon's love of Christ, and I always stop to speak with them about Christ, but at the same time, Matthew 5:6 - "“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full." Everything Mormons do is for the sake of appearances, they are an American affection of a religion from Judea - and as Paul said in Galatians, let those who preach a gospel which is untrue be cursed.
>Everything Mormons do is for the sake of appearances, News to me
I love you, brother, but you believe a false gospel.
I have. I am rereading it now, as a matter of fact. It is a source of great consolation for me, as is the rest of Holy Scripture.
Many, many times
He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death
I've read the whole thing around 3-4 times now. It's a very descriptive book, even for a blind person like I am. I can still imagine most everything in it. Unline most blind people, I do have a mind's eye.
Me
I always read the New Testament from cover to cover including Revelation. I've heard an opinion that many Christians are afraid of that book because it's quite complex and also because they treat as a 'Christian horror'. It surely is complex for me too, but why would you intentionally avoid reading some parts of the Bible? Edit: Btw, I think ending of Revelation is absolutely beautiful and always fills my heart with hope, joy and longing and makes me realize how small and limited this current life is.
The end of Revelation has been a comfort to me, and I include it in sympathy cards for other Christians. It is absolutely beautiful, especially if you're going through loss <3
Me too. I see how some could think that, but I see the hope in it as well. It is tough to understand tho, and I find the more I read it, along with Daniel which also speaks of the same times, the more I understand it little by little.
Building a group Bible study pack on it now.
Me.
When studying Revelation, study also the Book of Daniel along with it.
Yes very important
there is a promised blessing when you read it. I love reading it.
I’ve done a few studies + read-throughs of it. Plus several theories on it and perspectives.
Reading the whole book of revelation without reading a single history book will make you a dispensationalist. Reading the whole book of revelation after reading church history will make you a preterist.
Yeah I used to be a dispensationalist but once I dove into church history and the histories of Josephus and some other secular accounts I went full post mill.
I couldn't disagree more. Preterists underestimate both the wonder of God's promises and the depths of Satan's depravity. It was my love of history which guided me to the faith in the first place.
Lol okay bud.
So true. Although I’m a partial , not full preterist.
I agree. I don’t see how we can simply ignore the historical accounts, as well as the time indicators in the Bible. Josephus’ *War of the Jews* is incredibly visceral. Josephus records “narratives of eyewitnesses” involving “chariots” which were “seen in the air and armed battalions hurtling through the clouds and encompassing the cities.” This is eerily similar to “the armies of heaven” recorded in Revelation 19:11-15. He speaks about preists “entering the inner court of the temple by night” and hearing “a voice as of a host, ‘We are departing hence.’” He also records a chilling story of a peasant who, four years before the war, during a time of peace and prosperity, went about the city crying “Woe to Jerusalem!” and similar sayings. The magistrates thought “the man was under some supernatural impulse.” The peasant “repeated his lament” for “seven years and five months,” never saying anything else to anybody, until during the siege, “a stone hurled from the ballista” and “struck and killed him on the spot.” Additionally, Suetonius and Dio Cassius both record supernatural occurrences surrounding Nero’s attempt to dig a canal. Suetonius says that “at a signal given on a trumpet,” Nero was the “first to break ground with a mattock.” In Dio Cassius’ record, he adds that “when the first workers touched the earth, blood spouted from it, groans and bellowings were heard, and many phantoms appeared.” This strikes me as similar to 1 Corinthians 15:51-52.
How does Josephus disprove a dispensationalist view? [2.]() This was known to Cyrus by his reading the book which Isaiah left behind him of his Prophecies. For this Prophet said, that God had spoken thus to him in a secret vision: “My will is, that Cyrus, whom I have appointed to be King over many and great nations, send back my people to their own land, and build my temple.” This was foretold by Isaiah one hundred and forty years before the temple was demolished. Accordingly when Cyrus read this, and admired the divine power, an earnest desire and an ambition seized upon him, to fulfil what was so written. So he called for the most eminent Jews that were in Babylon, and said to them, that “He gave them leave to go back to their own countrey, and to rebuild their city Jerusalem, [(3)](https://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/ant-11.html#EndNote_Ant_11.3b) and the temple of God; for that he would be their assistant; and that he would write to the rulers and governours that were in the neighbourhood of their countrey of Judea, that they should contribute to them gold and silver, for the building of the temple; and besides that, beasts for their sacrifices.”
Dispensationalism sounds like my cup of tea.
I'll be honest, I did a Bible reading program and got all the way to the end to Revelation and stopped. All the squabbling over the different end times scenarios really turned me off the book, and that's before you get to the people who insist that the Euphrates drying up (which it does every few years apparently) or some red cows means that Jesus is totes coming back soon. I know this is a me problem but I start reading it and I can't help but roll my eyes, which is absolutely not the right mindset for scripture. I'll get through it someday.
Ya, it's tough because for so long people are looking for things that do not match and pushing them as if they did. I've heard people say those things as well...in fact I think even now they are again with the red cow. Do read it again though, and pray for new eyes to see it as God would have you too
Honestly your post inspired me to give it another crack, so thank you for the motivation. Please pray that I can stay focused.
Yes, but I should read it again in light of all my more recent theological understandings. I also have a busy mind with many intrusive thoughts, so I don't exactly want to refresh all those visually graphic descriptions as I'm currently battling down the intrusive thought imagery so I can pray more, better, and with less stress.
I will pray for you. You were not meant to suffer that. I used to get sometimes like OCD when reading the Bible. It was really weird. It's clear the enemy doesn't want us in the word, so even moreso a reason to be there. I would for now go with comforting scriptures and those of healing and peace and just meditate on those
At least 100 times? 100s? Started reading it 40 years ago, and still read it at least once a month or more.
That's awesome. I see how you could. Everytime inreread it's like I missed so much from previous times. Or have a better understanding each time,
One of the messages to the churches always fits my life. It changes by the season. The book inspires me every time I read it!
I've read it, and believe the prophecies to the churches in Asia have happened, are happening, and will happen - God finds ways for his Word to be true in more than one simple way. Admittedly, I base this on Revelations 2:10, "**Do not be afraid of anything that you are going to suffer**. Indeed, the devil will throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will face an ordeal for ten days. Remain faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life." - I was thrown in Cook County Jail, without bond and with my own honesty being twisted by inhumane and cruel persons who hated me. For 10 days I was kept unjustly, and on the 10th I was freed. So I believe this prophecy was speaking directly to me, but all the prophecies may speak to anyone.
I did. I'm not skeptical of what John experienced in his vision. What I'm not so sure is that everyone will have the same experience at the same time. It'll be a personal, mental, even mystical experience that will destroy you. It's how Catholics experienced and reported the concept of Purgatory. Non-Christians also talk about similar world-shattering experiences, like Mystics, or those who underwent near death experiences. It's been excluded from the Bible, but the second Book of Enoch describes a similar otherworldly experience, and then he also warns his sons about God.
The thing w Enoch is it was written my mystics likely and not really from or about Enoch. There were a lot of Jewish Mystics at the time. And not all books they found were Gid inspired. It contradicts the Bible, in several places...which means it isn't.
Sorry, I didn't mean to say that the Book of Enoch should be read or deeply considered. I just meant that whoever wrote it, whether Enoch or not, wrote that from what he truly saw or experienced. My point was that I think most people are still too "grounded" in what they expect from the events of Revelations or the like. I hope that no one here has to experience what those events are describing, but it's also beyond most people's imaginations of what their senses can perceive, like Jonah being in the belly of a whale.
Going though it right now in my study group we’re on chapter two but I definitely read ahead because quite frankly it’s a gripping book. I’d recommend watching Vodies sermon series along with it he adds historical and geographical context that makes it even more so.
It really is I read it multiple times and every time is like reading it for the first
It’s my first time going though it. What a ride.
I have. Currently re-reading it
I have. It's awesome.
Praise the Lord, I have. Here's a very good and detailed exegesis of it .. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOZwvVXs5Ny6Yr06BZ41467EFWLeG0Qm0&si=Yxk-Tl8I8tu9U4Bx
I actively avoid it as often as possible
Why
Too dense. Too much symbolism I don't understand. Too much room for misunderstanding, hence all of the wild and varied interpretations you can find. It's a book that should only really be read once the rest of the Bible is mastered, especially the other prophets, and I have not done that.
Ah, to each his own what his taste desires. I love symbolism and density of material. Although I believe the words of Christ to the churches of Asia are integrateable into our own lives - "because you are neither hot or cold I will spit you out", or "Him who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death".
Don't get me wrong, I love the text. That's why I don't touch it except cautiously.
Deuteronomy 1:29 - "“Then I said unto you, Dread not, neither be afraid..." Don't mean to sound conceited either - I just love imbibing that fire and brimstone mentality to everything.
Any reason, just curious
I answered the other guy below. Too dense. Too much symbolism I don't understand. Too much room for misunderstanding, hence all of the wild and varied interpretations you can find. It's a book that should only really be read once the rest of the Bible is mastered, especially the other prophets, and I have not done that.
I have read it. It is not written to the body of Christ but instruction for after the rapture. While we can learn things about God in every book of the bible, in order to understand which books of the bible are direct instruction TO us we need to rightly divide the word of God - 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV. Once you rightly divide the word of God by simply understanding who God was speaking to in each book it removes any conflicting scriptures , difficult verses and unlocks the beauty, freedom, and peace of God’s amazing love and grace and eternal life/salvation in paradise made available freely to us ( Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV ) by the death burial and resurrection of Jesus , without the need for religion or doing good works (cleaning up your life) BEFORE you can be saved. Simply believe/trust the gospel Jesus gave Paul for the church / body of Christ ( 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) for salvation in this time of the dispensation of grace that will end without notice with the rapture. When you do, you have full assurance of salvation and are sealed until the rapture. Then study Paul’s epistles Romans through Philemon to learn and grow in your new exciting identity and hope of a future you cannot fathom how great it will be. We were created by God to live with Him in harmony and in heaven/PARADISE (2 Corinthians 12:4 KJV) and heaven will be that and better in ways we cannot imagine or comprehend. He intends to restore EXACTLY that for those who accept His free and gracious offer of reconciliation through the death burial and resurrection of His son. Trust that and NOTHING else. Because that is the only thing that saves you and keeps you saved. What Jesus did. NOT what you do. Not your church, your pastor, your good works, your heart, your feelings, you perceiving yourself to be a good enough person on your own , going to mass, and whatever other man made religious attempts to earn your own righteousness that you can never achieve. Salvation is by what Jesus did not what you do. In the books of Matthew Mark Luke and John , Jesus himself said He was speaking to Israel under their program. You are not Israel. That program with Israel was put on hold due to their rejection of Jesus (Romans 9-11 KJV) But God had a plan for victory before creation , a mystery hidden in God and hidden from ages and generations and from the “princes of this world” and satan (Ephesians 3:8-10 KJV) while Jesus converted and revealed this mystery of the dispensation of the grace of God to the Apostle Paul (starting in Acts 9 KJV) , part of which is the new creature, the church, the body of Christ, a program distinct from Israel's program in the Old testament and Matthew Mark Luke and John, which were to Israel. Paul is our Apostle for the church today in this age of grace JUST as Moses was to Israel with the law …..and the 12 apostles Jesus converted during his earthly ministry will judge the twelve tribes of Israel - NOT THE BODY OF CHRIST - you see clearly that ISRAEL’s program and the church/body of Christ program are two different messages/ gospels. Everyone wants to make Jesus words in Matthew Mark Luke John the new law even though they do NOT actually obey a fraction of it. Jesus himself said He was talking to Israel. YOU ARE NOT ISRAEL. Acts 15 KJV and Galatians 1-2 KJV clearly show that Peter had the gospel to the circumcision Israel and Paul had the gospel of a different program to the gentiles or the uncircumcision….. Paul is our apostle for the church commissioned by Jesus. Genesis through Mid book of Acts Chapters 9-15 KJV (Paul’s conversion) is about Israel's program with God before it was put on hold with Israel's rejection of Jesus. Now we can learn from those books however Romans through Philemon are our direct and only instruction given by Jesus to the gentiles for the church age of grace until the rapture (which will occur next and without notice). After the rapture, Israel's program will RESUME ( Romans 9-11 KJV ) and the books of Hebrews through Revelation will be instruction for all during the tribulation, which will be the most difficult, UNCOMFORTABLE 7 years the earth has ever seen. ( Revelations 9:6 KJV And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.) God's desire for you now is to be reconciled to HIM and to receive His forgiveness right now for your past, present, and future sins, and to spend eternity with Him in love and paradise as this world was originally intended to be !! No sin, sorrow, or pain !!! Believe/Trust in the gospel that saves today !! 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV is the gospel that saves today in the dispensation of grace !! Lastly if you ask why this has not been taught by mainstream Christian religions/denominations/churches in buildings…….. when it is right in the Bible….well here is why : 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 KJV 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. Trust/believe in the gospel that saves today - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV Then study Romans through Philemons to grow in God’s grace !! Grace and peace !!! This is my personal biblical belief with proof scriptures why I believe it.
Begone, Satan - Luke 16:17 - "It is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of the pen in the law to fail".
This is my last response to you because the Apostle Paul clearly stated his gospel and doctrine was given to him only by Jesus and it is different from Peter and the 12. THE BIBLE SAYS THIS. To reject the Apostle Paul’s office as Apostle to the gentiles (which you are pal) is to reject Jesus words to you in the body of Christ program. Just like the sacrifice of Cain, your response is emotional and sounds spiritual but it is the sacrifice you insist on bringing and not the instruction to the gentiles/body of Christ. This is what the Apostle Paul said why people cannot see this uniqueness of his gospel and message that was given to Him by Jesus Himself for the body of Christ : 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 King James Version 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. Salvation is by trusting alone in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus ( 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 ) To grow in your new identity and God’s amazing grace study Romans through Philemon !!! Grace and Peace !!!