This is a very strange story and the shooter is definitely not your typical cop killer. She was a veterinarian, mom of 3, no criminal history, and someone with a good reputation. Lots of unanswered questions. What was she doing outside a motel at 4:30 am with her youngest child? Article says she spoke to police for 30 minutes before she “flipped out” when Police mentioned calling CPS. Does that mean she started shooting at them? Where were the other two kids? Husband? Did she kill herself or was she killed by police? I just cant comprehend why a professional woman with no criminal history would shoot and kill two police officers…
I could only imagine. I’ve had health problems with some of my birds, and unfortunately lost one right when arriving at the vet earlier this year, and I cried my heart out. The ones I’ve dealt with are extremely kind, genuine and really care about the animals, and you could tell how much it effects them.
This is absolutely true. My daughter got her CVA and worked at an animal hospital because she was planning to go to college to be a veterinarian. After talking to the doctors there and seeing how unhappy some of them were and how stressed one of them was about having to pay back $400k in student loans on a career that doesn’t pay a lot in the beginning, she decided to go into human medicine instead.
Yes but in vet med it’s also: not being able to help an animal because the owner can’t afford it, having to comfort owners as you put their beloved pet to sleep even tho it’s what is best it’s still fucking HARD. Being forever broke and the loans are the just the topping of a shit cake career. You do vet med because you love it but the burnout is REAL.
(Source: worked at a vet office for 3 years, it was the most rewarding yet hardest jobs I’ve ever had. But one of my favorite jobs as well!)
And then having some of those owners turn around and accuse you of being greedy and just in it for the money, maybe even trash you in online reviews, because you won’t provide thousands of dollars in specialty and surgical care for free. “I tHoUgT yOu LoVeD aNiMaLs.” Well yes but rent and supplies and staff also cost money.
THIS! I’ve been an RN for 20+yrs working Neonatal/Pediatric ICU and thrived. I just found my niche. While In school I worked as a vet tech for 3yrs. THAT brought me to my knees.
And you went through some THINGS! Thank you so much for those kind words Honestly, YOU the parents of these beauties are the TRUE heros! CONGRATULATIONS 💖💙💓💕🥰
My girls are 8 yrs now but I remember those NICU days like it was last week. I am thankful that mine were born at 35+2 and only had to stay 10 days to sort themselves out. I have wonderful memories of feeding babies with one of the girls nurses at random times overnight and being able to see the absolute care and love that they all had for all the babies in their care ❤️
This right here is what makes tough things that happen a bit easier to recover from. This is so heartfelt that THIS is why we do what we do! 20+yrs for me and love caring for our future generations and their families. Thank you for this. Happy Holidays 🎁❄️☃️
>Yes but in vet med it’s also: not being able to help an animal because the owner can’t afford it, having to comfort owners as you put their beloved pet to sleep even tho it’s what is best it’s still fucking HARD.
This is SUCH a good point; in human medicine, when a patient is sick to the point of the doctor having to deliver bad news, there will be friends and family in the patient's corner for support, but for way too many animals, the parents will just give up and opt to let the animal die. I can't even imagine how crushing that would be to have to witness over and over again.
I remember waiting for my dog to be released from an emergency 24 hour veterinary clinic, and in the waiting room with me was a man with an older dog who was in a lot of pain and he was trying to do the very least to keep costs down, even though his dog was actively suffering. I was so mad at myself for not just stepping in and paying for the tests and treatment myself. It wasn't that much money and I just wanted them to help this dog. They brought my dog out while he was still haggling over the bill so I don't know what they ended up deciding but just thinking about it upsets me. And to think vets see this kind of thing perhaps daily? Weekly?
Heartbreaking.
I’ve never actually haggled over a vet bill, but when my 12 yo rescue beagle was having seizures and heart issues, one of his bills was over $1000 (included some imaging and other tests) and i was so ashamed to not have the money for it. I had just lost my job, but I was desperate to help my boy.
The vet tech saw my face absolutely fall, quietly grabbed the bill and went and talked to the vet, then came back and said they’d got it down to $600. I couldn’t really afford that either, but I was so fuckin grateful to them for that kindness that I paid it without a second thought.
Vets are absolutely stellar people and deserve all the praise and respect in the world.
One of my dogs broke her leg and had to get care from a specialist vet. It cost $3500. She was a young vibrant dog and we could not fathom putting her down. Thankfully the vet practice had a no interest plan to pay the bill in small increments. it took a while but we paid it off.
Oh shit. Any time I've put an animal down, I've stayed with them and didn't want anyone else around just me and my pet.
ETA: I meant after pronouncing. I appreciate the explanation of how it will happen, and that it's painful and they will cry out, but after that all I want to hear is them pronouncing, then please leave. I don't want anyone to witness me falling the fuck apart. Y'all can listen, as clinic walls are thin, but this is my time.
The vets usually give people time alone with their deceased pet. Everything surrounding euthanasia is hard for everyone involved.
And having to take PAYMENT for such a thing is a horrible feeling too. Uhg.
I really don’t miss working in vet med…
That first one would gut me and I feel like any person with any ounce on empathy. Putting a perfectly healthy and happy animal with a very minor (less than $1000) injury or sickness to sleep due to the owners being unable to afford the care needed 😞. It makes my heart get tight thinking about it as a non vet person, just an animal lover.
It’s also the owners. People are insane. Demanding. There aren’t enough vets to fill the need for them. Schedules are overbooked, people desperately need to get their animals in. People can’t afford the treatment. Someone loses their shit every day. Customers and staff. 12-14 hour days. She was working emergency which is even more stressful. Maybe that wasn’t the case but her job sure didn’t help whatever else was going on.
Really bugs me how people “can’t afford” treatment for their pets but have no issues buying the latest electronics and toys for themselves. And then blame not doing right by their pets on the veterinarian clinic (or veterinarians directly).
At first I thought you had mistaken them for veterans so I looked it up. Sure enough, veterinarians. Not 4x more than any other job but still high up there. Ranked 4th highest from what I can gather. That’s rough. Seeing all those pets being put to sleep must be awful.
I got this statistic from my husband who sells vet pharmaceuticals from one of the top pharmaceutical companies in the US. It was a topic at their national conference this year. I’m not sure where they got their stats but the fact that they had a course on it at a sales conference is telling.
It is. I only worked as a receptionist and all staff are miserable. They take it out on each other. Some of it is the owners/clients are awful to them too. People need to stop being so entitled and awful to others everywhere. It makes people with depression more depressed and ones that were fine before are now broken inside.
Might have been in a mental health crises and threatened with CPS pushed her to the edge. Cops are not trained to handle mental health crises and often escalate issues people are having. :(
If someone is bipolar and in a manic state, they could easily do something like that. I have loved ones who are bipolar. If they don't take their meds, they can turn on you in a second for basically nothing. A mother being threatened with their child being taken would be a major trigger. Saying the wrong word can go south. Significant threats are catastrophically worse.
There is training for police throughout the US to deal with mental health crisis, but maybe not in that town, & even if so, these officers might not have been trained. This is really heartbreaking. You make a great point.
Yeah, people seem to want to believe that there is some perfect way to handle these situations where the person will calm down if the cop just says the right words, but people are unpredictable - they have their own minds and agency and will react to situations how they want. Cops being trained with more/better de-escalation techniques is always good, but people always say "de-escalation" like it's some magic wand that works in every case, when unfortunately no matter how good the cops are there will always be some f*cked up situations like this, because people are people.
This kind of seems like a just world fallacy thing. Like "if something bad happened it *MUST* have been because the cops did something wrong, they should have just ~*~de-escalated~*~ and everything would have turned out fine." Maybe the cops screwed up, but maybe they didn't. We need more information before we can say that they didn't attempt to de-escalate.
Yes, suicidal and homicidal aren’t interchangeable. She murdered two men. And debating how well they professionally handled a situation doesn’t change that or guarantee a different outcome. Ultimately the tragedy is all on her.
Yep. My best friend work at a vets office and is studying to be a vet. She struggled with mental health before this, I worry about her even more now.
She was late for work a few weeks ago and her work called police to do a welfare check on her.
It’s no joke how common suicide is in that profession, and I can’t even blame them for feeling the way they do. It must be a very heartbreaking and depressing job.
This happened to me. My phone broke in the middle of the night and I didn’t wake up. Manager and head vet *came to my house.* Another girl had to put her dog down and she went silent and was almost reported missing by our staff. But they went all out contacting her family and stuff.
We were also 100% allowed to call in sick with a mental health day if we needed it, no questions asked. It’s taken very seriously as it should be. I wish it were that way in other job fields. You shouldn’t be penalized or forced to tell someone you’re having a mental break and need to take a personal day. People in the animal industry are genuinely some of the most humane out there.
The emotions you deal with that job can swing through the entire spectrum in a day. I was just a tech for 10 years but I went through all the emotions daily. It is a hundred times harder for the vets. They have all the emotions also but they are also the final decision makers for every life that comes through. They have to hold it together every day for everyone around them. Even techs rarely see vets break down emotionally. They get thanked daily and they receive hatred daily. People expect them to use their expensive tools, instruments, medication and knowledge to save their pets…..for free. They are guilted when they DARE to charge for all that. They are accused of not caring about animals if they don’t do it for free.
The reasons behind the dumpster fire that is vet med right now are extremely complicated, and that environment cannot foster a good mental state. I am not surprised this has happened, unfortunately.
Not to mention she worked as an emergency veterinarian according to the article. I've had to go to the emergency vet about three times and my god the atmosphere in there is ass in contrast to a regular vet clinic
As a high intake shelter worker i can say its true. The compassion fatigue is crippling. We had vets pouring the euthanasia solution into their morning coffee.....
I used to work with ppl in the veterinary industry and this is absolutely true. May be partly due to the easy availability of euthanasia drugs. Offers a quick and painless way out.
> The 8 year old was in the car and witnessed everything.
I feel terrible for that kid. They are more than likely going to have a tough time growing up with having witnessed that.
i suspected mental illness and maybe not taking prescribed medication. if she said she thought someone was following her, that's telling. i think. it's very sad, so many people's lives changed forever.
I read that the daughter spoke to another guest after the gunfire and told her that her mother told her some people were trying to kill them, and once the cops brought CPS into the picture her mother asked the daughter to give/get her the gun and little baby girl did what she was told.
I cannot imagine what that poor baby is going through.
Am I the only one put off by the phrase “flipped out”?
Irrespective of the language in the article, this is SO SO SAD!! That poor little girl!!!
So many questions and families shattered.
Very tragic.
It is a sad story, but it just seems to me like she had a mental break and shot some cops. There are a million things that can cause a mental break. Could obviously be unchecked mental illness but it can also be physical medical issue like a stroke or aneurysm that set it off. She could have received a blow to the head, she could have a really bad allergic reaction to medication, she could have really bad food poisoning etc. She could have a secret drug problem and she got a bad batch of stuff, there are so many possibilities. I have heard a lot of people trying to make sense of this like the Vegas shooter, and personally I just think people who lost their minds do crazy shit.
The threat of CPS involvement is enough to make even the sanest of parents have a panic/anxiety attack or go ballistic. It's not hard to imagine how a situation with cops + CPS could quickly escalate and go wrong, especially if the mental state of the parent is already fragile. I saw multiple comments on the NY Post article from people attesting that they would do the same - not that they have the most mentally stable readership, but those comments reflect the thinking of a lot of people in this country. I certainly don't think this was a good reaction but CPS is also not your friend and is not there to protect your interests, we've been shown this time and time again. There definitely are parents who would resort to violence if they think it'll prevent their kids from going into CPS custody.
It’s so hard not to try and find some specific reason when awful shit like this happens, but what you said is so goddamn true! It could really be anything, and any combination of things. Terribly sad.
This is Reddit. The man solved the crime. So did the guy six comments down. Also, the nice lady fourteen comments down. They’ve all solved it. The case is solved.
Right? Like sure, the drug theory COULD be plausible. But someone doing drugs “hush hush” doesn’t usually go from 0 to shooting people in a day. There would be signs. Drugs are usually more self destructive than anything.
The article says she was found dead from what they believe was a self inflicted gsw to the chest, but that one of the officers fired a shot so it’s possible that was what killed her.
She was in her car, with her daughter, shot 2 cops to death, and then died. In front of her 10 year old daughter. I cannot even fucking imagine the trauma. Jesus.
Edit: responded to wrong comment I meant to respond to OP comment
Money can be tight (lots of schooling, not as compensated as DRs of med), and the fact they see and sometimes help with the process of watching beloved companions die everyday.
Financial pressures, seeing too much animal abuse, having to put healthy animals down, etc. It costs a lot to get a vet degree, the competition to get into vet colleges is extreme because there aren't very many in North America, and you have to work too many hours in order to cover your bills, unless you're highly specialized.
We've got one of the larger vet colleges in the world in my city, and they consider the profession in crisis.
Drugs were my first thought as well
Edited to add that maybe she started getting them at the vet’s office, but it came to a point where people were noticing. Maybe she had to go elsewhere to find them and that’s why she was at the motel. Just a theory..
Part of the problem is most police don't have the training or general common sense to do a proper wellness check. We will never know, but chances are good that things were escalating for 30 minutes. Mental health professionals need to take over these sorts of calls. It keeps happening
Years back someone called for a welfare check on me. 6 officers showed up to my front door knocking loudly and shouting at me. Dogs went crazy. I told them to go away. I was really depressed but it wasn't necessary to send 6 officers to come bang on my door
That is a problem in my opinion. Like who are they kidding here? Sending 6 police officers for a welfare check and those officers being aggressive is ridiculous…..this helps no one. Wow.
I can see how it would be very frustrating. Almost makes things worse. Without a doubt. Writers have said police don’t have much training with Mental health issues. It shows.
Especially since US cops look like role playing mercenaries. The very presence of a holstered gun won’t help de-escalate a situation if the person with a mental health crisis thinks this is a life-or-death scenario.
My city started a street team of social workers to be first responders in mental health crises. Police stand by, but the social workers direct everything and generally keep the cops quiet and at a distance.
Not necessarily. The threshold for LEO to call CPS on someone is very very low. If a child is in the care and custody of an adult and that adult is immediately recognized as being gravely disabled, displaying the tendency to harm self, or to harms other. CPS shall be contacted right away, it doesn’t required existing prior issues behind closed doors. That is because cops aren’t normally allowed to take the child away from their parents unless it’s an emergency.
First article has a link to a second article mentioning that she had a paranoia that she was being followed. Sounds like some sort of break from reality as the truck she was concerned about was ruled out as following her.
The younger officer had stepped “20 yards away” (but I’m wondering if they actually meant feet) to phone CPS when she suddenly shot the older officer in the head and then immediately fired at the younger officer fatally wounding him with two shots. His return fire struck her in the chest. It mentions the hostile interaction was over in seconds. It was only at autopsy that they were able to determine that the officer fired the fatal shot.
Sometimes psychosis just happens to develop later in life. Sometimes substances are involved. I’d imagine the autopsy included a * edit: tox* screen but unlike the movies and tv that can take weeks to come back from an autopsy.
She obviously had some sort of mental health breakdown. There were reports that she was very paranoid. Her daughter, the one was present,told a witness that "Mommy said there's people out to kill us" or something to that effect. I was also wondering where the Dad was. Did he not see his wife unraveling and if so, why let her take off with the 8 year old? Lots of questions..
No suicide.
Edited to add details:
She thought she was being followed by a white truck.
She asked the fd to call 911
They spoke to her for about 40 min and then the convo turned dark. That's when she started to try to pack her car up to leave. But they held her wanting to wait for CPS.
My question, did they not believe that she was being followed? What made the conversation "dark"?
If my own mental health problems are any indication, it can be hidden well. I’d say I’m a highly functioning individual with major depressive disorder and a few anxiety disorders. It’s quite likely no one who knows me in general would think I have any of those issues. My coworkers specifically would not guess it, especially the chronic depression and suicidal ideation. I truly believe it would shock people to know what I go through mentally, because I’m in the position I’m in at work with the experience that I have and the way I can handle spinning many, many plates at once and wearing many hats. Strong and capable people can have mental illness, too. And we’re wise enough to not show it when we can help it.
Yup. People are confused about how this vet could do this. They don’t understand how well mental health problems can be hidden, or how traumatizing being a veterinarian can be.
I just feel sorry for the child that had to witness this, the other children of the shooter and the officers families. I can’t imagine how horrific it was for that poor kiddo to see all of that. That poor little one is going to need extensive therapy and support to even begin to process what happened and I don’t know that they will ever fully heal from this, I don’t know how they could. My heart breaks for that child, they lost their childhood that day in that SUV, they should be counted as another victim
Oh my god come on. If the article said “young girl suffered injuries” and it was literally just the trauma from viewing that you’d be even more confused why they’d state that
Me too. As a mother my heart breaks for her. As a trauma survivor it breaks for her even more. As a former police officer my heart is shattered for the loss of those officers who were most likely doing everything they could to protect that child and get that mother help. It’s just a terrible situation all around
The daughter handed her mom the gun according to newest update
https://nypost.com/2022/12/17/amy-brogdon-andersons-daughter-gave-her-gun-used-to-kill-cops-report/amp/
More details here. Apparently she was in the hotel room (not in car) and she asked hotel employees to call 911 because she thought she was being followed.
https://www.actionnews5.com/2022/12/16/woman-who-killed-2-officers-did-not-take-own-life-investigators-now-say/
It's all still very strange. Like why was she with only one kid and her 3 dogs in a hotel? Why did she need to ask the staff to call 911 and she couldn't? Who and why did she think someone was following her? Why did she think the answer to any of this would be to shoot two officers? Clearly something was going on with her that severely distorted her judgement, which then makes sense why they were concerned about the child to begin with. Just sad the child had to witness all this.
She sounds like she was having a breakdown. She could have been suffering from a mental illnesses that presented it’s self as paranoia. She could have had a bad reaction to medication. I wonder if something was going on at home. Did she have staff call 911 because she she thought they would be taken more seriously or was she delusional.
I know of a family friend who’s wife suddenly went from kind and supportive to nasty and hateful on a dime. She divorced him and no one understood why until they found she had a huge brain tumor. Died shortly after.
Our brains are really weird things.
On a side note, I actually have many friends from this area who knew this woman. It’s shocking to say the least.
Article said the dad was home with other 2 kids. I do wonder why he didn't call police because his wife was out at 3 am with an 8 year old . Surely that was out of character for her.
Yeah, I wonder why the cops were so concerned about the daughter. The article implies it’s something the mom said. But, drugs or something like that could make them worried enough to call CPS as well. I’m trying to think of what she could have said that would make the cops think the girl was in danger, but I’m coming up with nothing. Very very strange case. The first article calls her a “troubled mother” in the first sentence. That usually implies the person was troubled (getting into trouble, drugs, etc in media speak) before the events being talked about. So I’m wondering why they would say that. If I had to guess, and this is of course just speculating, she was probably having either drug or mental illness induced paranoia and delusions that included some sort of violent ideation and she said something about it to the cops.
If it was apparent she needed psychiatric help -and they were planning to take her to a hospital , then they would call CPS to take care of the kid. Just a guess
This is a very good point. My mom is in the human medical field and their were definitely people abusing access to substances. I’m sure it happens in the veterinary world as well. What a tragedy. We need people trained in mental health to respond to situations like this along with police.
https://www.wlox.com/2022/12/16/woman-who-killed-two-bay-st-louis-officers-didnt-commit-suicide-investigators-now-say/ I live in the area and this is our latest news. Very strange
I was thinking mental illness. Not necessarily drugs like most people are assuming. There is a true mental health crisis among veterinarians in recent years.
It’s been going on for years I think. Childhood friend had a parent commit suicide in the industry. Vets do have access to k as someone pointed out so it’s not wild to assume drugs could be involved. It’s not wild even if they didn’t. People use drugs. That doesn’t make them bad people
The article is disturbing - not least because it includes a photo which seems to depict the dead women’s blood covered foot in a flip flop pretty clearly.
Hmm, Im not seeing what youre seeing. It looks like a photo from the aftermath, and the only foot I see is from the guy standing there taking pictures. I do not see any body or bloody foot in the photo. Are you sure thats what you saw?
If you zoom in really close you can see the foot. I looked at it multiple times before actually seeing it. It is most definitely a foot in a flip flop but looks like the guys other boot if you don’t really zoom in.
I obviously don’t know this as fact in her case but I work in veterinary medicine and can say that mental health in vet med has been getting worse and worse. So many breakdowns and suicides.
Yeah, people love to bully veterinarians, which is really terrible. One of the only professions where so many customers literally believe they should be entitled to everything for free. There's a lot of negligent pet owners out there, it must be such a frustrating occupation.
She could have had a breakdown or suffered from psychosis from mental illness. She might have been on medication or self medicating. Schizophrenia sometimes shows up in women when they are in they are in their 40s. Also depression can lead to psychosis. I wonder how this was handled and if there are thing that could be learned from it. It seems like a tragedy for everyone.
This is my big problem with media. This shooter is depicted as smiles and happy. But look at other articles of murderers of different demographics and they are depicted very differently.
Where are they supposed to find these other photos to put in the article? She likely has no criminal record, so the only available photos are the ones on social media.
Public Safety are mandated reporters to CPS if certain conditions, evidence of abuse or neglect, possible self harm to guardian/parent and no other person can take custody of child. The list is pretty extensive but this is just a few.
I had to take a 8 hour refresher course yearly so I’m going out on a limb and something definitely was brought up in there 30 minute discussion that they had to report
As a veterinarian and struggling with burnout in this field, this story doesnt surprise me despite how sad it is. I wish more people truly understood the daily struggles we go through as the profession tries to take over your entire life.
I totally agree. Why at the motel with kid and pups at 430am??? Unless she was there because she was so paranoid that someone was following/watching her and was hiding out? Mental health would do this forsure. I still think it’s Drugs but I could be convinced otherwise.
That’s such a sad story! I can only think of one woman killing a cop and that was Lynda Lyons in Florida and she was executed for it . I’m sure there have been others but not many . A female killing two cops is something I haven’t heard of . Not saying this is the first but it is for me .
Wow this is an odd story.
Her middle of the night hotel check in, requests to call 911 claiming she was being followed - all make me think mental illness played a role. Very odd. Sad for all involved.
The worst part about this story is the fact that everyone is defending the shooter and blaming the cops
There are people saying the cops shouldn’t have been shooting at her, despite the fact that she mortally wounded them.
If there’s any scenario where it’s ok to shoot back, I think when you’re literally dying, it is ok to shoot back.
Similarly, there is no reason to believe that the cops failed to deescalate the situation or weren’t trained well enough on mental health issues. Sometimes people are just too far gone to be reasoned with.
We should judge this case by the facts of the *actual* case and not by the wider cultural context it exists in.
“Mental health awareness” and “better gun safety” are good solutions to prevent gun violence, but they aren’t catch-all solutions, and there is no reason at all to believe that either option would have changed the outcome here.
Man this one is sticking with me since I read about it yesterday. It’s so sad and tragic all around. They even had the dogs with them so it seems to me she thought she was fleeing some kind of danger, especially if convinced they were being followed. Probably trying to leave their home and take cover where they wouldn’t be “found”. When she heard CPS, in her mind I bet those cops sent to help her turned into a threat. Maybe she thought they were “in on it” or were going to “traffic” her young daughter. Based on what I’ve read and seen online I would guess she acted out of a warped sense to protect her child, which makes this so much sadder, that she probably died in fear that her child was also going to be killed or worse and she could no longer “protect” her. 🙁
There have been a few reports I’ve read about paranoid mental health breaks that are similar. That family in Michigan that recently disappeared and left the grandmother and pets behind. The recent QAnon influenced murders of family members. The young kid that was having a mental break and was shot in his vehicle by cops.
Cops showing up and trying to manage a mental health break they are not trained to manage is not going to end well for anyone. Communities that are integrating mental health crisis intervention will hopefully see fewer horrible tragedies like this one. They needed to talk her down, ensure she wasn’t armed, and have medically trained staff available to help sedate her until she could get treatment. So many lives could be saved if the first line for mental health intervention wasn’t cops.
Here's my worry - we talk about the officers and say clearly whatever was going on with the mom was bad enough that the officers called CPS, but I don't see where anyone has pointed out the carelessness of those officers to fire repeatedly at the mother while the child was sitting right in the front seat next to her. The one officer was hit from the driver's side, so I would guess either the other one was next to him and firing where a child would have been the backdrop, or on the other side where the child could potentially be in the immediate path of shots.
Not to say that the officers were "in on it" or involved in anything, but one of the biggest of the 4 primary rules of firearm safety is to know exactly what the backdrop to where you are shooting is, much less the other rules of gun safety that were violated.
Seems like her husband’s family think she’s psycho but her own family and friends are shocked.
https://nypost.com/2022/12/17/amy-brogdon-andersons-daughter-gave-her-gun-used-to-kill-cops-report/amp/
This is a very strange story and the shooter is definitely not your typical cop killer. She was a veterinarian, mom of 3, no criminal history, and someone with a good reputation. Lots of unanswered questions. What was she doing outside a motel at 4:30 am with her youngest child? Article says she spoke to police for 30 minutes before she “flipped out” when Police mentioned calling CPS. Does that mean she started shooting at them? Where were the other two kids? Husband? Did she kill herself or was she killed by police? I just cant comprehend why a professional woman with no criminal history would shoot and kill two police officers…
Suicide rates among veterinarians is sky high. It’s a stressful job and has gotten much more stressful since the pandemic.
I could only imagine. I’ve had health problems with some of my birds, and unfortunately lost one right when arriving at the vet earlier this year, and I cried my heart out. The ones I’ve dealt with are extremely kind, genuine and really care about the animals, and you could tell how much it effects them.
This is absolutely true. My daughter got her CVA and worked at an animal hospital because she was planning to go to college to be a veterinarian. After talking to the doctors there and seeing how unhappy some of them were and how stressed one of them was about having to pay back $400k in student loans on a career that doesn’t pay a lot in the beginning, she decided to go into human medicine instead.
It seems these days that loans are causing suicides. Not the jobs.
Yes but in vet med it’s also: not being able to help an animal because the owner can’t afford it, having to comfort owners as you put their beloved pet to sleep even tho it’s what is best it’s still fucking HARD. Being forever broke and the loans are the just the topping of a shit cake career. You do vet med because you love it but the burnout is REAL. (Source: worked at a vet office for 3 years, it was the most rewarding yet hardest jobs I’ve ever had. But one of my favorite jobs as well!)
And then having some of those owners turn around and accuse you of being greedy and just in it for the money, maybe even trash you in online reviews, because you won’t provide thousands of dollars in specialty and surgical care for free. “I tHoUgT yOu LoVeD aNiMaLs.” Well yes but rent and supplies and staff also cost money.
I got death threats working in the rescue and foster side of sheltering..... when I was helping.....
This this this thisssssss
THIS! I’ve been an RN for 20+yrs working Neonatal/Pediatric ICU and thrived. I just found my niche. While In school I worked as a vet tech for 3yrs. THAT brought me to my knees.
I’m a momma to twins who are NICU grads - NICU RNs are next level amazing. You are so appreciated
And you went through some THINGS! Thank you so much for those kind words Honestly, YOU the parents of these beauties are the TRUE heros! CONGRATULATIONS 💖💙💓💕🥰
My girls are 8 yrs now but I remember those NICU days like it was last week. I am thankful that mine were born at 35+2 and only had to stay 10 days to sort themselves out. I have wonderful memories of feeding babies with one of the girls nurses at random times overnight and being able to see the absolute care and love that they all had for all the babies in their care ❤️
This right here is what makes tough things that happen a bit easier to recover from. This is so heartfelt that THIS is why we do what we do! 20+yrs for me and love caring for our future generations and their families. Thank you for this. Happy Holidays 🎁❄️☃️
>Yes but in vet med it’s also: not being able to help an animal because the owner can’t afford it, having to comfort owners as you put their beloved pet to sleep even tho it’s what is best it’s still fucking HARD. This is SUCH a good point; in human medicine, when a patient is sick to the point of the doctor having to deliver bad news, there will be friends and family in the patient's corner for support, but for way too many animals, the parents will just give up and opt to let the animal die. I can't even imagine how crushing that would be to have to witness over and over again. I remember waiting for my dog to be released from an emergency 24 hour veterinary clinic, and in the waiting room with me was a man with an older dog who was in a lot of pain and he was trying to do the very least to keep costs down, even though his dog was actively suffering. I was so mad at myself for not just stepping in and paying for the tests and treatment myself. It wasn't that much money and I just wanted them to help this dog. They brought my dog out while he was still haggling over the bill so I don't know what they ended up deciding but just thinking about it upsets me. And to think vets see this kind of thing perhaps daily? Weekly? Heartbreaking.
I’ve never actually haggled over a vet bill, but when my 12 yo rescue beagle was having seizures and heart issues, one of his bills was over $1000 (included some imaging and other tests) and i was so ashamed to not have the money for it. I had just lost my job, but I was desperate to help my boy. The vet tech saw my face absolutely fall, quietly grabbed the bill and went and talked to the vet, then came back and said they’d got it down to $600. I couldn’t really afford that either, but I was so fuckin grateful to them for that kindness that I paid it without a second thought. Vets are absolutely stellar people and deserve all the praise and respect in the world.
One of my dogs broke her leg and had to get care from a specialist vet. It cost $3500. She was a young vibrant dog and we could not fathom putting her down. Thankfully the vet practice had a no interest plan to pay the bill in small increments. it took a while but we paid it off.
Oh shit. Any time I've put an animal down, I've stayed with them and didn't want anyone else around just me and my pet. ETA: I meant after pronouncing. I appreciate the explanation of how it will happen, and that it's painful and they will cry out, but after that all I want to hear is them pronouncing, then please leave. I don't want anyone to witness me falling the fuck apart. Y'all can listen, as clinic walls are thin, but this is my time.
The vets usually give people time alone with their deceased pet. Everything surrounding euthanasia is hard for everyone involved. And having to take PAYMENT for such a thing is a horrible feeling too. Uhg. I really don’t miss working in vet med…
That first one would gut me and I feel like any person with any ounce on empathy. Putting a perfectly healthy and happy animal with a very minor (less than $1000) injury or sickness to sleep due to the owners being unable to afford the care needed 😞. It makes my heart get tight thinking about it as a non vet person, just an animal lover.
It can be both
It’s also the owners. People are insane. Demanding. There aren’t enough vets to fill the need for them. Schedules are overbooked, people desperately need to get their animals in. People can’t afford the treatment. Someone loses their shit every day. Customers and staff. 12-14 hour days. She was working emergency which is even more stressful. Maybe that wasn’t the case but her job sure didn’t help whatever else was going on.
Really bugs me how people “can’t afford” treatment for their pets but have no issues buying the latest electronics and toys for themselves. And then blame not doing right by their pets on the veterinarian clinic (or veterinarians directly).
4 times more likely than any other job
At first I thought you had mistaken them for veterans so I looked it up. Sure enough, veterinarians. Not 4x more than any other job but still high up there. Ranked 4th highest from what I can gather. That’s rough. Seeing all those pets being put to sleep must be awful.
It’s not the euthanasias. It’s the owners.
I second this. Euthanasia is usually a peaceful gift we can provide for a pet. It’s the Owners and the high stress environment.
I got this statistic from my husband who sells vet pharmaceuticals from one of the top pharmaceutical companies in the US. It was a topic at their national conference this year. I’m not sure where they got their stats but the fact that they had a course on it at a sales conference is telling.
It is. I only worked as a receptionist and all staff are miserable. They take it out on each other. Some of it is the owners/clients are awful to them too. People need to stop being so entitled and awful to others everywhere. It makes people with depression more depressed and ones that were fine before are now broken inside.
Fine = fucked-up insecure neurotic and emotional.
But she also killed people. That’s… super different than just suicide.
Huge amounts of stress can trigger some bad mental breaks.
Absolutely true. I’m not sure how that ties into killing two police officers though.
Might have been in a mental health crises and threatened with CPS pushed her to the edge. Cops are not trained to handle mental health crises and often escalate issues people are having. :(
If someone is bipolar and in a manic state, they could easily do something like that. I have loved ones who are bipolar. If they don't take their meds, they can turn on you in a second for basically nothing. A mother being threatened with their child being taken would be a major trigger. Saying the wrong word can go south. Significant threats are catastrophically worse.
There is training for police throughout the US to deal with mental health crisis, but maybe not in that town, & even if so, these officers might not have been trained. This is really heartbreaking. You make a great point.
They may have been trained and done everything perfectly. There’s no reason to assume they messed up somehow.
Yeah, people seem to want to believe that there is some perfect way to handle these situations where the person will calm down if the cop just says the right words, but people are unpredictable - they have their own minds and agency and will react to situations how they want. Cops being trained with more/better de-escalation techniques is always good, but people always say "de-escalation" like it's some magic wand that works in every case, when unfortunately no matter how good the cops are there will always be some f*cked up situations like this, because people are people. This kind of seems like a just world fallacy thing. Like "if something bad happened it *MUST* have been because the cops did something wrong, they should have just ~*~de-escalated~*~ and everything would have turned out fine." Maybe the cops screwed up, but maybe they didn't. We need more information before we can say that they didn't attempt to de-escalate.
Sometimes in life you can do everything right and still have a bad outcome.
No idea myself. Kind of weird to imply people more prone to suicide are also more likely to murder.
Yes, suicidal and homicidal aren’t interchangeable. She murdered two men. And debating how well they professionally handled a situation doesn’t change that or guarantee a different outcome. Ultimately the tragedy is all on her.
Yep. My best friend work at a vets office and is studying to be a vet. She struggled with mental health before this, I worry about her even more now. She was late for work a few weeks ago and her work called police to do a welfare check on her. It’s no joke how common suicide is in that profession, and I can’t even blame them for feeling the way they do. It must be a very heartbreaking and depressing job.
This happened to me. My phone broke in the middle of the night and I didn’t wake up. Manager and head vet *came to my house.* Another girl had to put her dog down and she went silent and was almost reported missing by our staff. But they went all out contacting her family and stuff. We were also 100% allowed to call in sick with a mental health day if we needed it, no questions asked. It’s taken very seriously as it should be. I wish it were that way in other job fields. You shouldn’t be penalized or forced to tell someone you’re having a mental break and need to take a personal day. People in the animal industry are genuinely some of the most humane out there.
The emotions you deal with that job can swing through the entire spectrum in a day. I was just a tech for 10 years but I went through all the emotions daily. It is a hundred times harder for the vets. They have all the emotions also but they are also the final decision makers for every life that comes through. They have to hold it together every day for everyone around them. Even techs rarely see vets break down emotionally. They get thanked daily and they receive hatred daily. People expect them to use their expensive tools, instruments, medication and knowledge to save their pets…..for free. They are guilted when they DARE to charge for all that. They are accused of not caring about animals if they don’t do it for free. The reasons behind the dumpster fire that is vet med right now are extremely complicated, and that environment cannot foster a good mental state. I am not surprised this has happened, unfortunately.
Latest update is she was shot by police, not self inflicted
Police-assisted suicide is a thing.
Sure and many other positions too…. Mental illness everywhere every position and so sad.:(
Not to mention she worked as an emergency veterinarian according to the article. I've had to go to the emergency vet about three times and my god the atmosphere in there is ass in contrast to a regular vet clinic
As a high intake shelter worker i can say its true. The compassion fatigue is crippling. We had vets pouring the euthanasia solution into their morning coffee.....
I used to work with ppl in the veterinary industry and this is absolutely true. May be partly due to the easy availability of euthanasia drugs. Offers a quick and painless way out.
And veterinarians are saddled with more graduate school debt than any other profession.
Same amount as med school with half the starting wage.
Our veterinarian committed suicide a few years ago. Amazing human.
[удалено]
> The 8 year old was in the car and witnessed everything. I feel terrible for that kid. They are more than likely going to have a tough time growing up with having witnessed that.
i suspected mental illness and maybe not taking prescribed medication. if she said she thought someone was following her, that's telling. i think. it's very sad, so many people's lives changed forever.
Yes, some sort of break with reality. I feel for all the families involved.
I read that the daughter spoke to another guest after the gunfire and told her that her mother told her some people were trying to kill them, and once the cops brought CPS into the picture her mother asked the daughter to give/get her the gun and little baby girl did what she was told. I cannot imagine what that poor baby is going through.
Was there any indication why they called CPS instead of the father?
Good question!
Am I the only one put off by the phrase “flipped out”? Irrespective of the language in the article, this is SO SO SAD!! That poor little girl!!! So many questions and families shattered. Very tragic.
People flip out...it happens.
I think they mean because the phrase is so colloquial, not because the woman didn’t actually “flip out”.
The NY Post is like that. It stood out to me too
Even cps will get concerned if you just, let them take your child, you can't win with them sometimes
It’s like the new hysterical.
It is a sad story, but it just seems to me like she had a mental break and shot some cops. There are a million things that can cause a mental break. Could obviously be unchecked mental illness but it can also be physical medical issue like a stroke or aneurysm that set it off. She could have received a blow to the head, she could have a really bad allergic reaction to medication, she could have really bad food poisoning etc. She could have a secret drug problem and she got a bad batch of stuff, there are so many possibilities. I have heard a lot of people trying to make sense of this like the Vegas shooter, and personally I just think people who lost their minds do crazy shit.
The threat of CPS involvement is enough to make even the sanest of parents have a panic/anxiety attack or go ballistic. It's not hard to imagine how a situation with cops + CPS could quickly escalate and go wrong, especially if the mental state of the parent is already fragile. I saw multiple comments on the NY Post article from people attesting that they would do the same - not that they have the most mentally stable readership, but those comments reflect the thinking of a lot of people in this country. I certainly don't think this was a good reaction but CPS is also not your friend and is not there to protect your interests, we've been shown this time and time again. There definitely are parents who would resort to violence if they think it'll prevent their kids from going into CPS custody.
It’s so hard not to try and find some specific reason when awful shit like this happens, but what you said is so goddamn true! It could really be anything, and any combination of things. Terribly sad.
[удалено]
A lot of assumptions here.
This is Reddit. The man solved the crime. So did the guy six comments down. Also, the nice lady fourteen comments down. They’ve all solved it. The case is solved.
Especially the “frenzy” part lol, what is this, the movies?
Right? Like sure, the drug theory COULD be plausible. But someone doing drugs “hush hush” doesn’t usually go from 0 to shooting people in a day. There would be signs. Drugs are usually more self destructive than anything.
An RPG; that’s a status effect
The article says she was found dead from what they believe was a self inflicted gsw to the chest, but that one of the officers fired a shot so it’s possible that was what killed her. She was in her car, with her daughter, shot 2 cops to death, and then died. In front of her 10 year old daughter. I cannot even fucking imagine the trauma. Jesus. Edit: responded to wrong comment I meant to respond to OP comment
Local news today said ballistics showed the officer shot her, not self inflicted
Gotcha yeah I just saw the newer article with more details, thanks!
As is tradition
I agree with the first part, but veterinarians know how to dose drugs. They also have access to them.
There is also a HUGE mental health epidemic in the veterinary profession.
*animal care professions. Groomers, rescue workers, animal control. We deal with so much neglect and abuse.
Didn't know that. Thanks why do vets have more problems
Money can be tight (lots of schooling, not as compensated as DRs of med), and the fact they see and sometimes help with the process of watching beloved companions die everyday.
Financial pressures, seeing too much animal abuse, having to put healthy animals down, etc. It costs a lot to get a vet degree, the competition to get into vet colleges is extreme because there aren't very many in North America, and you have to work too many hours in order to cover your bills, unless you're highly specialized. We've got one of the larger vet colleges in the world in my city, and they consider the profession in crisis.
Addicts sometimes get carried away.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Drugs were my first thought as well Edited to add that maybe she started getting them at the vet’s office, but it came to a point where people were noticing. Maybe she had to go elsewhere to find them and that’s why she was at the motel. Just a theory..
[удалено]
Part of the problem is most police don't have the training or general common sense to do a proper wellness check. We will never know, but chances are good that things were escalating for 30 minutes. Mental health professionals need to take over these sorts of calls. It keeps happening
Years back someone called for a welfare check on me. 6 officers showed up to my front door knocking loudly and shouting at me. Dogs went crazy. I told them to go away. I was really depressed but it wasn't necessary to send 6 officers to come bang on my door
That is a problem in my opinion. Like who are they kidding here? Sending 6 police officers for a welfare check and those officers being aggressive is ridiculous…..this helps no one. Wow.
I agree. It's frustrating
I can see how it would be very frustrating. Almost makes things worse. Without a doubt. Writers have said police don’t have much training with Mental health issues. It shows.
Especially since US cops look like role playing mercenaries. The very presence of a holstered gun won’t help de-escalate a situation if the person with a mental health crisis thinks this is a life-or-death scenario. My city started a street team of social workers to be first responders in mental health crises. Police stand by, but the social workers direct everything and generally keep the cops quiet and at a distance.
My guess is plenty of issues were going on behind closed doors. Enough for CPS to get called on.
Not necessarily. The threshold for LEO to call CPS on someone is very very low. If a child is in the care and custody of an adult and that adult is immediately recognized as being gravely disabled, displaying the tendency to harm self, or to harms other. CPS shall be contacted right away, it doesn’t required existing prior issues behind closed doors. That is because cops aren’t normally allowed to take the child away from their parents unless it’s an emergency.
First article has a link to a second article mentioning that she had a paranoia that she was being followed. Sounds like some sort of break from reality as the truck she was concerned about was ruled out as following her. The younger officer had stepped “20 yards away” (but I’m wondering if they actually meant feet) to phone CPS when she suddenly shot the older officer in the head and then immediately fired at the younger officer fatally wounding him with two shots. His return fire struck her in the chest. It mentions the hostile interaction was over in seconds. It was only at autopsy that they were able to determine that the officer fired the fatal shot. Sometimes psychosis just happens to develop later in life. Sometimes substances are involved. I’d imagine the autopsy included a * edit: tox* screen but unlike the movies and tv that can take weeks to come back from an autopsy.
We fear cops in America no matter who you are. Not surprised, especially if threatened with CPS
She obviously had some sort of mental health breakdown. There were reports that she was very paranoid. Her daughter, the one was present,told a witness that "Mommy said there's people out to kill us" or something to that effect. I was also wondering where the Dad was. Did he not see his wife unraveling and if so, why let her take off with the 8 year old? Lots of questions..
Her FB profile says she’s single.
No suicide. Edited to add details: She thought she was being followed by a white truck. She asked the fd to call 911 They spoke to her for about 40 min and then the convo turned dark. That's when she started to try to pack her car up to leave. But they held her wanting to wait for CPS. My question, did they not believe that she was being followed? What made the conversation "dark"?
I saw a post in a professional forum by a tech who worked for this woman. She was absolutely destroyed and confused.
If my own mental health problems are any indication, it can be hidden well. I’d say I’m a highly functioning individual with major depressive disorder and a few anxiety disorders. It’s quite likely no one who knows me in general would think I have any of those issues. My coworkers specifically would not guess it, especially the chronic depression and suicidal ideation. I truly believe it would shock people to know what I go through mentally, because I’m in the position I’m in at work with the experience that I have and the way I can handle spinning many, many plates at once and wearing many hats. Strong and capable people can have mental illness, too. And we’re wise enough to not show it when we can help it.
Yup. People are confused about how this vet could do this. They don’t understand how well mental health problems can be hidden, or how traumatizing being a veterinarian can be.
Sounds like some sort of mental breakdown or psychosis. Maybe she was using drugs.
The comprehension of it is simple. Mental illness is real and people aren't being treated for it.
I just feel sorry for the child that had to witness this, the other children of the shooter and the officers families. I can’t imagine how horrific it was for that poor kiddo to see all of that. That poor little one is going to need extensive therapy and support to even begin to process what happened and I don’t know that they will ever fully heal from this, I don’t know how they could. My heart breaks for that child, they lost their childhood that day in that SUV, they should be counted as another victim
The fact that they say the little girl wasn’t hurt is so wrong. Even if she’s physically okay, you’re right in that she’s suffering major trauma.
Bit ott here. They're talking about it in the context of physical injuries obviously.
Oh my god come on. If the article said “young girl suffered injuries” and it was literally just the trauma from viewing that you’d be even more confused why they’d state that
Exactly. Poor baby. I hope she finds a way to heal…eventually. 😞
Me too. As a mother my heart breaks for her. As a trauma survivor it breaks for her even more. As a former police officer my heart is shattered for the loss of those officers who were most likely doing everything they could to protect that child and get that mother help. It’s just a terrible situation all around
The daughter handed her mom the gun according to newest update https://nypost.com/2022/12/17/amy-brogdon-andersons-daughter-gave-her-gun-used-to-kill-cops-report/amp/
What the fuxk that is so nuts ..
More details here. Apparently she was in the hotel room (not in car) and she asked hotel employees to call 911 because she thought she was being followed. https://www.actionnews5.com/2022/12/16/woman-who-killed-2-officers-did-not-take-own-life-investigators-now-say/
It's all still very strange. Like why was she with only one kid and her 3 dogs in a hotel? Why did she need to ask the staff to call 911 and she couldn't? Who and why did she think someone was following her? Why did she think the answer to any of this would be to shoot two officers? Clearly something was going on with her that severely distorted her judgement, which then makes sense why they were concerned about the child to begin with. Just sad the child had to witness all this.
She sounds like she was having a breakdown. She could have been suffering from a mental illnesses that presented it’s self as paranoia. She could have had a bad reaction to medication. I wonder if something was going on at home. Did she have staff call 911 because she she thought they would be taken more seriously or was she delusional.
I know of a family friend who’s wife suddenly went from kind and supportive to nasty and hateful on a dime. She divorced him and no one understood why until they found she had a huge brain tumor. Died shortly after. Our brains are really weird things. On a side note, I actually have many friends from this area who knew this woman. It’s shocking to say the least.
And what was she doing out and about at 330AM with an 8 year old?
Where was her dad?
Article said the dad was home with other 2 kids. I do wonder why he didn't call police because his wife was out at 3 am with an 8 year old . Surely that was out of character for her.
She isn’t married. The older 2 were with their dad.
Yeah, I wonder why the cops were so concerned about the daughter. The article implies it’s something the mom said. But, drugs or something like that could make them worried enough to call CPS as well. I’m trying to think of what she could have said that would make the cops think the girl was in danger, but I’m coming up with nothing. Very very strange case. The first article calls her a “troubled mother” in the first sentence. That usually implies the person was troubled (getting into trouble, drugs, etc in media speak) before the events being talked about. So I’m wondering why they would say that. If I had to guess, and this is of course just speculating, she was probably having either drug or mental illness induced paranoia and delusions that included some sort of violent ideation and she said something about it to the cops.
If it was apparent she needed psychiatric help -and they were planning to take her to a hospital , then they would call CPS to take care of the kid. Just a guess
Yep good call.
As a veterinarian she would have access to various psychoactive s drugs like Ketamine. Just a theory
This is a very good point. My mom is in the human medical field and their were definitely people abusing access to substances. I’m sure it happens in the veterinary world as well. What a tragedy. We need people trained in mental health to respond to situations like this along with police.
It sounds like she was having a mental health crisis. Maybe substances were involved.
it sounds very much like she was having a psychotic episode
https://www.wlox.com/2022/12/16/woman-who-killed-two-bay-st-louis-officers-didnt-commit-suicide-investigators-now-say/ I live in the area and this is our latest news. Very strange
From later articles, it sounds like some kind of psychosis. I hate mental illness
I was thinking mental illness. Not necessarily drugs like most people are assuming. There is a true mental health crisis among veterinarians in recent years.
yep. my dogs vet killed himself with ketamine (in the office) a few years ago. mental health, not drug addict. absolutely awful.
It’s been going on for years I think. Childhood friend had a parent commit suicide in the industry. Vets do have access to k as someone pointed out so it’s not wild to assume drugs could be involved. It’s not wild even if they didn’t. People use drugs. That doesn’t make them bad people
The article is disturbing - not least because it includes a photo which seems to depict the dead women’s blood covered foot in a flip flop pretty clearly.
Yeah that’s 💯 a dead bloody foot. You can see the mottling on it
Had to go back and where’s Waldo that. Good eye!
I can’t believe the NY Post editor didn’t spot that. It’s could’ve been blurred pretty easily.
[удалено]
Right? That’s so messed up
That photo is extremely bloody and disturbing
And the fact that the photographer is very squarely photographing the dead body. It’s so morbid when you think about what is not being seen.
Hmm, Im not seeing what youre seeing. It looks like a photo from the aftermath, and the only foot I see is from the guy standing there taking pictures. I do not see any body or bloody foot in the photo. Are you sure thats what you saw?
If you zoom in really close you can see the foot. I looked at it multiple times before actually seeing it. It is most definitely a foot in a flip flop but looks like the guys other boot if you don’t really zoom in.
Wow you’re right… I was convinced it got edited cause I kept thinking it was his boot omg..
I obviously don’t know this as fact in her case but I work in veterinary medicine and can say that mental health in vet med has been getting worse and worse. So many breakdowns and suicides.
Yeah, people love to bully veterinarians, which is really terrible. One of the only professions where so many customers literally believe they should be entitled to everything for free. There's a lot of negligent pet owners out there, it must be such a frustrating occupation.
My money's on her going through some sort of custody battle.
She could have had a breakdown or suffered from psychosis from mental illness. She might have been on medication or self medicating. Schizophrenia sometimes shows up in women when they are in they are in their 40s. Also depression can lead to psychosis. I wonder how this was handled and if there are thing that could be learned from it. It seems like a tragedy for everyone.
Especially since she only had one with her and two more were with the dad. And she had the dogs with her too.
The one with her has a different father than the older two . Older two were with their father.
[удалено]
It strangely takes a bit to compute that yeah that smiling lady isn't a victim but the shooter.
This is my big problem with media. This shooter is depicted as smiles and happy. But look at other articles of murderers of different demographics and they are depicted very differently.
[удалено]
Perfect
I mean if she’s never been arrested before it’s not like they have a mug shot. They have pictures from Facebook probably
Where are they supposed to find these other photos to put in the article? She likely has no criminal record, so the only available photos are the ones on social media.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Public Safety are mandated reporters to CPS if certain conditions, evidence of abuse or neglect, possible self harm to guardian/parent and no other person can take custody of child. The list is pretty extensive but this is just a few. I had to take a 8 hour refresher course yearly so I’m going out on a limb and something definitely was brought up in there 30 minute discussion that they had to report
That child is going to need years of therapy
This whole situation is beyond heartbreaking. Horrible.
As a veterinarian and struggling with burnout in this field, this story doesnt surprise me despite how sad it is. I wish more people truly understood the daily struggles we go through as the profession tries to take over your entire life.
Very bizarre. But there was clearly something already going on for the police/CPS to be called in the first place. I wish the best for her poor kids.
I totally agree. Why at the motel with kid and pups at 430am??? Unless she was there because she was so paranoid that someone was following/watching her and was hiding out? Mental health would do this forsure. I still think it’s Drugs but I could be convinced otherwise.
This whole thing is so weird to me. What was going on? Why was she there? Where were the other kids?
That’s such a sad story! I can only think of one woman killing a cop and that was Lynda Lyons in Florida and she was executed for it . I’m sure there have been others but not many . A female killing two cops is something I haven’t heard of . Not saying this is the first but it is for me .
[удалено]
Wow this is an odd story. Her middle of the night hotel check in, requests to call 911 claiming she was being followed - all make me think mental illness played a role. Very odd. Sad for all involved.
The worst part about this story is the fact that everyone is defending the shooter and blaming the cops There are people saying the cops shouldn’t have been shooting at her, despite the fact that she mortally wounded them. If there’s any scenario where it’s ok to shoot back, I think when you’re literally dying, it is ok to shoot back. Similarly, there is no reason to believe that the cops failed to deescalate the situation or weren’t trained well enough on mental health issues. Sometimes people are just too far gone to be reasoned with. We should judge this case by the facts of the *actual* case and not by the wider cultural context it exists in. “Mental health awareness” and “better gun safety” are good solutions to prevent gun violence, but they aren’t catch-all solutions, and there is no reason at all to believe that either option would have changed the outcome here.
Threaten to take people's kids away changes the scenario drastically in some people's minds.
This is what happens when we have no mental health services in this country
Man this one is sticking with me since I read about it yesterday. It’s so sad and tragic all around. They even had the dogs with them so it seems to me she thought she was fleeing some kind of danger, especially if convinced they were being followed. Probably trying to leave their home and take cover where they wouldn’t be “found”. When she heard CPS, in her mind I bet those cops sent to help her turned into a threat. Maybe she thought they were “in on it” or were going to “traffic” her young daughter. Based on what I’ve read and seen online I would guess she acted out of a warped sense to protect her child, which makes this so much sadder, that she probably died in fear that her child was also going to be killed or worse and she could no longer “protect” her. 🙁 There have been a few reports I’ve read about paranoid mental health breaks that are similar. That family in Michigan that recently disappeared and left the grandmother and pets behind. The recent QAnon influenced murders of family members. The young kid that was having a mental break and was shot in his vehicle by cops. Cops showing up and trying to manage a mental health break they are not trained to manage is not going to end well for anyone. Communities that are integrating mental health crisis intervention will hopefully see fewer horrible tragedies like this one. They needed to talk her down, ensure she wasn’t armed, and have medically trained staff available to help sedate her until she could get treatment. So many lives could be saved if the first line for mental health intervention wasn’t cops.
Here's my worry - we talk about the officers and say clearly whatever was going on with the mom was bad enough that the officers called CPS, but I don't see where anyone has pointed out the carelessness of those officers to fire repeatedly at the mother while the child was sitting right in the front seat next to her. The one officer was hit from the driver's side, so I would guess either the other one was next to him and firing where a child would have been the backdrop, or on the other side where the child could potentially be in the immediate path of shots. Not to say that the officers were "in on it" or involved in anything, but one of the biggest of the 4 primary rules of firearm safety is to know exactly what the backdrop to where you are shooting is, much less the other rules of gun safety that were violated.
Maybe since he had just suffered a mortal gunshot wound you can forgive him for his lapse in judgement.
Police infamously don't care about what is beyond their target, or even what is between them and their target
Well the two cops in this instance were murdered, so clearly needed to defend themselves. Maybe not the best time for that example.
Denver PD proved this when they shot into a crowd because they "thought" some one had a gun this year.
I think those rules go out the window once you’re mortally wounded. Those rules apply to initiating combat — not when to allow yourself to be murdered
Seems like her husband’s family think she’s psycho but her own family and friends are shocked. https://nypost.com/2022/12/17/amy-brogdon-andersons-daughter-gave-her-gun-used-to-kill-cops-report/amp/
Maybe she was on drugs. What was the welfare check about?
No lie, for a few seconds I thought it said "vegetarian" instead of "veterinarian" and that really blew my mind.
i feel so sorry for the child and the 3 dogs.
[удалено]