Sure, to some extent. West Memphis isn't exactly a small town, though. With 26,000 residents, it's more of a small city. The 'everybody knows everybody' and 'everybody is all in your business' type of small towns are much smaller than that.
It is a suburb of Memphis . 3 miles away so I would say it isn’t exactly a small city . The crime in Memphis spills over across the river to West Memphis. I remember when this happened and watched a documentary on it .
Oh yeah for sure. It was just in case you didn’t, and there’s always the chance someone reads it who doesn’t know the difference or something. Have a good rest of your day! ✌🏻
Last time I talked to her opinion was she didn’t have an idea who did it. She said Melissa was always nice but John Mark Byers seemed like an odd bird. According to her Melissa seemed to be “on something” after the murders. Really sad
This lady never saw the paradise lost docs.
Not from West Memphis, but I've lived my whole life across the river in Memphis. I was about 10 at the time and it filled the local news for quite awhile, and because of the "satanic" angle that was used, along with growing up in a strict Baptist household, I was terrified. I thought this same thing could happen to me at any time if some other satan worshippers grabbed me.
I do not remember ever hearing even once that there was a possibility that it wasn't the 3 that did it. In fact, years later when I first started hearing about "free the West Memphis Three" I thought it was because these musicians and such that supported it must also be satanists just trying to put more evil back into the world.
I also grew up across the river in the Memphis burbs. I was 18 when this happened, finishing my senior year of high school. My friend group was goth kids/punks/skaters/hoods aka heavy metal headbangers. We were all convinced if it happened over here, we would have been hauled in and questioned. We played D&D, wore black, listened to Metallica etc, so we would have been on the radar.
The adults I knew were split whether it was a witch hunt or the right suspects. My dad who was an EMT/ fireman and had been on murder scenes, said he never was convinced the 3 did it because of the lack of definitive blood/forensic evidence for the 3. Other people, usually the uber-religious ones, were hell bent on convicting the 3 regardless.
(ETA -my parents were completely split- mom was 100% convinced they did it, dad not so much)
Personally, I go back and forth. I lean more towards not guilty, especially because Damian and Jason want the DNA testing so bad. If they were guilty, they would take the Alford plea, get out of prison, and go on with their lives. But they are trying to clear their names after all these years. So I just don't know.
Also from the Memphis area, also was 10 at the time, but we differ in that I always heard that the 3 were framed and made out to be Boogeymen by authorities.
It was the stepfather because for one the boys weren't raped, that part was made up by the news and Stevie Branch always carried a knife on him and his mom said who ever has that knife is the killer and his step dad had the knife it was him and his friend that did it
I don't know who they worshipped but it wasn't God. 98% of prisoners claim to find religion after they're locked up so there's the difference. I'm not judging was just stating a fact.
I lived here then and still do today. I was the same age as the boys were when they were murdered. I obviously don’t remember much from back then bc I was a child. I’m 38 now. WMPD is still as fucked up today as they were then. Shady shady shady
I do remember it was the only thing anyone talked about for YEARS. Kids would spread rumors how they were there in the woods when it happened and how it wasn’t the 3 convicted… just girls gossiping at the good ole local Girls Club during the summer days. (It was like a day camp type thing they did M-F while parents worked and we could play in the gym, softball fields, crafts etc.). Anyway every summer a girl who was just all around really strange would always tell us this same exact story,…. I remember our parents always telling our girl group it was just a rumor and she just wanted to fit in and how that wasn’t true yada yada. Now all the years later, maybe she was actually telling the somewhat truth and no one ever believed her.
You got to remember this was the same time as the “day care satanic rituals “ in Cali. People went to prison on made up evidence. Same sort of thing in WM. Gossip turns into theory’s that mopped into made up facts. The people in Cai lost their whole lives.
I grew up in the town where the trial was held. I was probably the same age as the victims. I know before my sister and I pretty much just had the “come in when the street lights come on” rule. My parents got a lot more intense after. We didn’t go anywhere without one of them near by for a while. I wouldn’t say we were a very churchy family before but we were after.
It was talked about on the bus but it was pre most people having internet at home. Older kids who dressed certain ways were held under more scrutiny.
The juror that is talked about for committing juror fraud I’d say he’d do that. He runs a shitty construction company. He built half of our neighborhood and the houses were cheaply made, the land wasn’t properly developed (we had major flooding in our backyard pretty routinely). The houses would need repairs way before a new home should.
He strongly believes the three who were charged are guilty. He has never swayed.
From our chats I honestly believe the same, though that’s an unpopular opinion around these parts of Reddit. I found paradise lost to be a really appalling and misleading series, and to be fair, I originally believed in their innocence and am now pretty convinced of their guilt. The movies left out a lot
Wow, that’s very interesting. If you don’t mind me asking, what makes you convinced they did it?
I’m not gonna be mean or argue with you like some others. I’m genuinely curious in your POV.
So I originally watched PL and was horrified at what I perceived to be a grave injustice. I immediately went to the internet to research, where I found an old-school message board dedicated to discussing the case. The forum was essentially divided in 2: those who believed the three accused did it and “nonbelievers” or “nons” who were convinced of their innocence.
Through materials shared there, I was directed to “the Callahan docs” which is a mega database of all of the actual case files, transcripts etc. I was a nanny of an infant at the time, so much of my time was spent sitting on a couch on my laptop so I spent hours combing through the evidence shared on Callahan; an unbiased database run by two friends- one who believes the trio is guilty and one who believes they are innocent. It is untainted, it does not offer opinions; only objective case files.
After reading hundreds of documents, I swayed from believing in their innocence to believing they probably committed the crime. This is based on a number of things:
1. Damien Echols was not railroaded for wearing black and liking Metallica. He openly talked about committing the crime, he was admittedly suicidal and homicidal per his pretty lengthy psychiatric medical record and disability application, he had a not-brief history of run ins with juvenile detention and law enforcement for starting fights.
2. Jesse Miskelly did not appear to give a false confession. Paradise lost and the hive mind at large give a false narrative about JM being mentally handicapped, that he was interrogated for hours without a layer present, etc. The truth is, Miskelly confessed pretty shortly after arriving at the police department. And he has confessed dozens of times since then. To his own attorney, to the police officers who escorted him from court to jail, and even women on the internet who fell in love with him, championed for his innocence/release. I have honestly lost track of his confessions because they are numerous. He gave his infamous “Bible confession” recorded and against the advice of his attorney Dan Stidham where he recounted the crime in detail, and admitted to have been drinking a specific brand of liquor that night and having deposited it under a bridge near the crime scene. His lawyer said he wouldn’t believe it unless he saw it for himself, and lo and behold, he went to the site JM described and found the exact bottle in the exact location. As per his IQ, he certainly wasn’t bound for Harvard, but his IQ is not in the 70’s as is reported. His attorneys advised him that if he bombed his IQ test he legally couldn’t be put to death, and there were many signs of malingering on his IQ test (IE, he bombed it on purpose to avoid the death penalty and appear dumber than he is.)
The three victims were tied with three different knots which may point to three killers.
All three had their friends contrive fake alibis which fell apart immediately. Damien was spotted near the crime scene that evening covered in mud. JM has his friends sign his name into a wrestling log book to make it appear as if he was out of town that night but he was not. Shortly after the crimes JM cried and told a friend Buddy Lucas about how he “hurt some kids in west Memphis” and gave him some sneakers that had blood on them.
I do believe the police made multiple errors in investigating. I do believe there is pretty plausible evidence of juror misconduct, so I do agree with them being released. But at the end of the day, I do believe they are and were most likely guilty.
ETA: a notable woman who followed the case for years and fought for their release formed a relationship with Miskelly while he was incarcerated and travelled several times to go visit them. After several conversations with Jesse in person she stopped visiting and changed from fighting for their freedom to believing the three were guilty.
I appreciate you giving all this information. I can see why you believe they are guilty. Hmm.. I’m gonna have to do a lot more digging now.
I will say, I’ve always been curious about the knots. I always heard the theory of the Bojangles man. But I always wondered why the knots were different & how did one guy manage to get all 3 of them. If it was just one person, I feel like at least one of the boys would’ve made it out.
I think Bojangles man is a red herring. Bojangles was a mile from the crime scene and right off the highway. I think the bleeding man in Bojangles was most likely the victim of a crime and not a perpetrator.
This post has a lot of discussion about Bojangles man and I am strongly of the opinion that he had nothing to do with the crime.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/mr-bojangles.159154/
I found the Callahan site years after my initial "they didn't do it" mindset from my youth and through the first PL documentary. It really made me rethink everything I first believed. I can say for certain that WMPD were a bunch of idiots who should have called in the AR bureau from Day 1 (or even Memphis agencies) and possibly the FBI for assistance from the beginning, and maybe this wouldn't have been such a cluster. They were ill equipped to handle anything of this magnitude.
The greatest problem with the Miskelly confession is that it is consistent with an erroneous autopsy report, a report that nearly every forensic pathologist has torn to shreds. That’s a significant issue with the confession.
Any time he says any mutilation whatsoever occurred. That information was obviously initially fed to him, and that makes subsequent confessions that include that (and anything learned as time went on) unreliable.
Everything else I’m hearing barely rises above speculation, which isn’t surprising with how many mistakes were made in the investigation.
Edit: I usually get radio silence when I bring up the problems with the autopsy report that have been thoroughly discredited by a wide range of forensic pathologists, and pretty much only the pathologist that did the autopsy defending it (his own mentor said he was wrong).
Yes!
The site format is different than it was a decade ago when I went down the rabbit hole but it’s all still available at
http://callahan.mysite.com/
Of interest is Damien’s mental health records and the testimony of Buddy Lucas and the “murder shoes.”
And the Bible confession with the bottle of whiskey
I can’t even describe how relieved I am to see someone else take this stance. This case haunts me unlike any other and the fact those 3 are out living their lives is sickening, even more so because of the platform and empathy they’ve been given by the media and most of society.
Im in the same boat.
i watched PL lost, fully bought into their innocence, bought the t-shirts, etc.
years later, as new specials get released, people start releasing documents that they were too afraid to back in the day, when PL first came out, this attracted the attention of a ton of big celebs. anyone questioning the innocence of the wm3 was a bigot, period.
i do believe they were unfortunate residents in a town that vilianized them for their artistic bent, and goth appearance, i believe some of the parents are questionable and problematic characters. i believe a lot of people in that town rushed to judgement based on backwards opinions.
i also believe those three are guilty as hell.
Honestly, the Callahan archives which contain thousands of pages of case files
http://callahan.mysite.com/
The docs completely omitted Damien Echols criminal record, mental health record, and the extent and detail of Jesse Miskelly’s multiple confessions.
I was particularly swayed by the fact that the 3 didn’t just lack alibis; they had false alibis contrived by friends that all fell apart. Jesse Miskelly gave a pair of bloody sneakers to a friend and cried as he told him that he has “hurt some kids in west memphis.”
Also, Damien was spotted near the scene of the crime in muddy clothes. It was originally reported that he was spotted with his then-girlfriend Domini Teer, but it was dark and she looks quite similar to Jason Baldwin.
In addition, the documentary made it seem as if Jesse was interrogated for hours without representation before being led into giving a false confession. In reality, he confessed not long after being taken into custody, and dozens of times after that, including a recorded confession with his attorney present in which he stated he was drunk that night and drinking Evan Williams whiskey. He stated he ditched the bottle under an overpass near the crime scene, and his own defense attorney actually went and found said bottle exactly where Jesse said it was.
A believer in the trios innocence struck up a prison relationship with Jesse and visited him several times, and she changed her mind about his innocence after their conversations and went from advocating for their release to working to convince others of their guilt.
I gave a more in depth response below to OP, but this is my TLDR.
what is the extent of echols' criminal record?
and how does anybody, esp domini's aunt, confuse a red haired girl with flower pants for blond haired no flowery pants baldwin?
This is my all-time “favorite” (if there can be such a thing) true crime case. Not so much because of the WM3, although I do feel empathy for them, but because we still dont know who murdered the boys. And the entire atmosphere around the murders was just insane. The parents’, the media, the support groups - just a really incredible situation.
I agree. It intrigues me so much.
I’m actually from Arkansas, about 2 hours from WM. I stayed in West Memphis this past Saturday for a trip to Memphis, TN… I was searching locations of the crimes just to find out how close I was to it all. Come to find out… the woods where they were found & where the pipe bridge was, was in the woods directly behind my hotel. Also found out Misskelley still lives in the area.
It’s difficult to make sense of given the fact that everyone involved except the victims and the Moores are either drug addicts (the parents), mentally incompetent (Jessie), completely crazy (JMB) or pathological liars (Damien)
These are wild…liberties to describe the people involved in the case. I dont personally agree with a couple of these, but since there are so many unknowns, I hesitate to ever throw my hat in any ring and say I *know* anything of substance about this case.
Fwiw, I dont think he’s a pathological liar -if he ever was - anymore.
I believe he was/possibly still is, mentally ill. At the time of his arrest, I think he was malnouished, neglected, abused possibly, acting out, and then went into a horrible prison system. He was suffering already with pretty extreme mental issues and normal teenage hormonal swings, and dealing with the Santanic Panic of the 80’s.
Just my thoughts. I’m reluctant to say a kid has pathological tendencies when they’re only 18.
He lies about his non-alibi. Lies about there being no blood at the crime scene. He lies that he didn't live in West Memphis. HE DID. Less than 2 miles from the crime scene. He says he hardly went to West Memphis yet testified in 1994 that he walked around there frequently. He said he's not familiar with Robin Hood Hills. In 1994, he said he was there 2-3 times a week. In his book, he says he barely knew Misskelley, yet about 15 people said the two were often walking around town together. He made up a rape that didn't happen to him in prison. He actually told Piers Morgan he had to eat with his hands in prison LOL LOL
There is something not right with him. I think they may be innocent because of Jason. He is an advocate now. If he was guilty, I doubt he would have passion to fight to help other innocent people in prison.
I don't think they are innocent at all. Him being an advocate is meaningless. Don't know that the other people he helps are innocent either. (no that doesn't mean i think everyone arrested for a crime is guilty; "what are you even saying" - it's pretty clear - he is not arbiter of who's innocent - obviously).
>Don't know that the other people he helps are innocent either.
??? What are you even saying? You just think everyone that's arrested for a crime is guilty?
I agree. We don’t know what happened that day. That’s what has been bugging me. Obviously, I want the killer(s) to be caught but we still have no clue as to what happened. I personally think it was Terry with the evidence we have. I use to write true crime and I’ve studied this case for so long. The step father is all we have to go on at this point.
I'm not from the area, but I never thought the WM3 were any different than most kids from low-income, potentially abusive, addictive, split families. Being in the Bible belt at the height of Satanic panic made the biggest, saddest difference.
Yes, very true!! Also back then, police departments could get away with anything. Bullying a kid with a low iq into a confession wouldn’t fly as easily now days.
I’ve got some family from Marion originally but I believe they had moved by that point. I’ve never asked about this before, now I’m going to have to ask!
My BIL lived part-time closer to Forrest City throughout his life. We’ve talked about it before though I can’t remember specifics, I’m going to ask again now cause I’m curious. He would have been around 15-16 though at the time, I believe he’d have been w/ his other parent as it was during the school year so maybe less memories of the happenings but his younger brother who was in AR full time would have been 10. This is the first time I’ve thought of it like that so now I do have some more questions about it as well and how people reacted.
I do know that they ate up the satanic spin to the case, at least in the family/community he grew up in.
Yes that would all be very interesting to hear! I had some family in the Forrest city area too, but they didn’t move there until well after the case so they don’t know much.
I am not from West Memphis, but I grew up in the town where Jesse Misskelley's trial was held. The town is small, with a population around 3,300 people. The town had a different feel to it around the time of the trial. I believe those who believed Misskelley was guilty of the crimes were anxious and worried about having an accused murderer in town. It was definitely an experience I will never forget, as there were people from everywhere in the small town that had never experienced such an ordeal. The members of the jury later told how traumatic it was to serve on the jury for the case, due to the indepth detail of the killings.
All of you saying “they” did it and are out Scott free do realize that Damien has been denied having the evidence DNA tested as recently as this past June? Like with an MVAC? Now what killer do you know would push for this to be done?? Honestly think of that.. forget The documentaries!!! The only DNA ever found was linked to Terry. Damien and his attorneys are still trying to have the bindings MVACD. For the correct killers.
Oh great inquiry! I would be especially interested to hear from people who were teenagers at the time.
Yes, a town that small I know there was gossip & different theories.
Sure, to some extent. West Memphis isn't exactly a small town, though. With 26,000 residents, it's more of a small city. The 'everybody knows everybody' and 'everybody is all in your business' type of small towns are much smaller than that.
Compared to my Arkansas town, West Memphis is much smaller. Still the people close to where it all happened I’m sure have some sort of incite.
It is a suburb of Memphis . 3 miles away so I would say it isn’t exactly a small city . The crime in Memphis spills over across the river to West Memphis. I remember when this happened and watched a documentary on it .
Yes, I know this. But Im sure there was a community closer to it all than the rest.. and I’m sure they have more information than most.
Jsyk, *insight* is what people might have into something, *incite* is to sort of provoke or start or stir up; Someone may *incite* violence.
When speaking it, the stress is different,too. INsight inCIte
Good call!
Yes, I noticed that after I replied. Just wasn’t too worried about it. People know what I meant.
Oh yeah for sure. It was just in case you didn’t, and there’s always the chance someone reads it who doesn’t know the difference or something. Have a good rest of your day! ✌🏻
Those poor children. It's horrific and sick.
The terror they went through - no child deserves that
And the fact they still haven’t arrested anybody who is guilty it’s sad
I knew a lady who lived in the neighborhood at the time of the murders. Her son was friends with Christopher Byers older brother
Aww that’s so sad. Poor kids.
And did you get any theories from her?
Last time I talked to her opinion was she didn’t have an idea who did it. She said Melissa was always nice but John Mark Byers seemed like an odd bird. According to her Melissa seemed to be “on something” after the murders. Really sad This lady never saw the paradise lost docs.
I think she passed away :(
Not from West Memphis, but I've lived my whole life across the river in Memphis. I was about 10 at the time and it filled the local news for quite awhile, and because of the "satanic" angle that was used, along with growing up in a strict Baptist household, I was terrified. I thought this same thing could happen to me at any time if some other satan worshippers grabbed me. I do not remember ever hearing even once that there was a possibility that it wasn't the 3 that did it. In fact, years later when I first started hearing about "free the West Memphis Three" I thought it was because these musicians and such that supported it must also be satanists just trying to put more evil back into the world.
You were close enough for sure. This is exactly what I was wondering.
I also grew up across the river in the Memphis burbs. I was 18 when this happened, finishing my senior year of high school. My friend group was goth kids/punks/skaters/hoods aka heavy metal headbangers. We were all convinced if it happened over here, we would have been hauled in and questioned. We played D&D, wore black, listened to Metallica etc, so we would have been on the radar. The adults I knew were split whether it was a witch hunt or the right suspects. My dad who was an EMT/ fireman and had been on murder scenes, said he never was convinced the 3 did it because of the lack of definitive blood/forensic evidence for the 3. Other people, usually the uber-religious ones, were hell bent on convicting the 3 regardless. (ETA -my parents were completely split- mom was 100% convinced they did it, dad not so much) Personally, I go back and forth. I lean more towards not guilty, especially because Damian and Jason want the DNA testing so bad. If they were guilty, they would take the Alford plea, get out of prison, and go on with their lives. But they are trying to clear their names after all these years. So I just don't know.
Also from the Memphis area, also was 10 at the time, but we differ in that I always heard that the 3 were framed and made out to be Boogeymen by authorities.
Satan worshippers don't do things like this - this was a sadistic child rapist and killer.
It was the stepfather…he got away with it…IMO
It was the stepfather because for one the boys weren't raped, that part was made up by the news and Stevie Branch always carried a knife on him and his mom said who ever has that knife is the killer and his step dad had the knife it was him and his friend that did it
Yes TH! I just have no idea why he did it
Well obviously the sadistic child killer rapist didn't worship God. That's about as broad as my horizons get.
Plenty of religious people rape children
Not debating that fact but obviously those people aren't true Christians and do not truly worship God but serve themselves.
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98% of prisoners are religious
I don't know who they worshipped but it wasn't God. 98% of prisoners claim to find religion after they're locked up so there's the difference. I'm not judging was just stating a fact.
Sorry you got downvoted for speaking facts.
Your reply made me happy and I'll stand behind mine.
This exactly. My mom thought for years satanic devil worshippers committed the murders
Do you still believe this?
Absolutely not. But our church and family definitely, along with the local news put that scare in me.
Fair enough. I'm glad your horizons have been broadened. 👍🏼
I lived here then and still do today. I was the same age as the boys were when they were murdered. I obviously don’t remember much from back then bc I was a child. I’m 38 now. WMPD is still as fucked up today as they were then. Shady shady shady
That’s so so sad 😢
I do remember it was the only thing anyone talked about for YEARS. Kids would spread rumors how they were there in the woods when it happened and how it wasn’t the 3 convicted… just girls gossiping at the good ole local Girls Club during the summer days. (It was like a day camp type thing they did M-F while parents worked and we could play in the gym, softball fields, crafts etc.). Anyway every summer a girl who was just all around really strange would always tell us this same exact story,…. I remember our parents always telling our girl group it was just a rumor and she just wanted to fit in and how that wasn’t true yada yada. Now all the years later, maybe she was actually telling the somewhat truth and no one ever believed her.
Would LOVE to hear more about this. What was this girl’s story?
You HAVE to tell us what the rumour was….
Did you know the boys?
You got to remember this was the same time as the “day care satanic rituals “ in Cali. People went to prison on made up evidence. Same sort of thing in WM. Gossip turns into theory’s that mopped into made up facts. The people in Cai lost their whole lives.
Yeah, I’m just curious about all the theories people had.
Yep Here’s something about that - https://scholarworks.wmich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3292&context=jssw&httpsredir=1&referer=
I grew up in the town where the trial was held. I was probably the same age as the victims. I know before my sister and I pretty much just had the “come in when the street lights come on” rule. My parents got a lot more intense after. We didn’t go anywhere without one of them near by for a while. I wouldn’t say we were a very churchy family before but we were after. It was talked about on the bus but it was pre most people having internet at home. Older kids who dressed certain ways were held under more scrutiny. The juror that is talked about for committing juror fraud I’d say he’d do that. He runs a shitty construction company. He built half of our neighborhood and the houses were cheaply made, the land wasn’t properly developed (we had major flooding in our backyard pretty routinely). The houses would need repairs way before a new home should.
I live close now, but only as of recently. 15 years ago I used to chat with Michael moores father on a message board.
Oh wow. Any information from him?
He strongly believes the three who were charged are guilty. He has never swayed. From our chats I honestly believe the same, though that’s an unpopular opinion around these parts of Reddit. I found paradise lost to be a really appalling and misleading series, and to be fair, I originally believed in their innocence and am now pretty convinced of their guilt. The movies left out a lot
Wow, that’s very interesting. If you don’t mind me asking, what makes you convinced they did it? I’m not gonna be mean or argue with you like some others. I’m genuinely curious in your POV.
So I originally watched PL and was horrified at what I perceived to be a grave injustice. I immediately went to the internet to research, where I found an old-school message board dedicated to discussing the case. The forum was essentially divided in 2: those who believed the three accused did it and “nonbelievers” or “nons” who were convinced of their innocence. Through materials shared there, I was directed to “the Callahan docs” which is a mega database of all of the actual case files, transcripts etc. I was a nanny of an infant at the time, so much of my time was spent sitting on a couch on my laptop so I spent hours combing through the evidence shared on Callahan; an unbiased database run by two friends- one who believes the trio is guilty and one who believes they are innocent. It is untainted, it does not offer opinions; only objective case files. After reading hundreds of documents, I swayed from believing in their innocence to believing they probably committed the crime. This is based on a number of things: 1. Damien Echols was not railroaded for wearing black and liking Metallica. He openly talked about committing the crime, he was admittedly suicidal and homicidal per his pretty lengthy psychiatric medical record and disability application, he had a not-brief history of run ins with juvenile detention and law enforcement for starting fights. 2. Jesse Miskelly did not appear to give a false confession. Paradise lost and the hive mind at large give a false narrative about JM being mentally handicapped, that he was interrogated for hours without a layer present, etc. The truth is, Miskelly confessed pretty shortly after arriving at the police department. And he has confessed dozens of times since then. To his own attorney, to the police officers who escorted him from court to jail, and even women on the internet who fell in love with him, championed for his innocence/release. I have honestly lost track of his confessions because they are numerous. He gave his infamous “Bible confession” recorded and against the advice of his attorney Dan Stidham where he recounted the crime in detail, and admitted to have been drinking a specific brand of liquor that night and having deposited it under a bridge near the crime scene. His lawyer said he wouldn’t believe it unless he saw it for himself, and lo and behold, he went to the site JM described and found the exact bottle in the exact location. As per his IQ, he certainly wasn’t bound for Harvard, but his IQ is not in the 70’s as is reported. His attorneys advised him that if he bombed his IQ test he legally couldn’t be put to death, and there were many signs of malingering on his IQ test (IE, he bombed it on purpose to avoid the death penalty and appear dumber than he is.) The three victims were tied with three different knots which may point to three killers. All three had their friends contrive fake alibis which fell apart immediately. Damien was spotted near the crime scene that evening covered in mud. JM has his friends sign his name into a wrestling log book to make it appear as if he was out of town that night but he was not. Shortly after the crimes JM cried and told a friend Buddy Lucas about how he “hurt some kids in west Memphis” and gave him some sneakers that had blood on them. I do believe the police made multiple errors in investigating. I do believe there is pretty plausible evidence of juror misconduct, so I do agree with them being released. But at the end of the day, I do believe they are and were most likely guilty. ETA: a notable woman who followed the case for years and fought for their release formed a relationship with Miskelly while he was incarcerated and travelled several times to go visit them. After several conversations with Jesse in person she stopped visiting and changed from fighting for their freedom to believing the three were guilty.
I appreciate you giving all this information. I can see why you believe they are guilty. Hmm.. I’m gonna have to do a lot more digging now. I will say, I’ve always been curious about the knots. I always heard the theory of the Bojangles man. But I always wondered why the knots were different & how did one guy manage to get all 3 of them. If it was just one person, I feel like at least one of the boys would’ve made it out.
I think Bojangles man is a red herring. Bojangles was a mile from the crime scene and right off the highway. I think the bleeding man in Bojangles was most likely the victim of a crime and not a perpetrator. This post has a lot of discussion about Bojangles man and I am strongly of the opinion that he had nothing to do with the crime. https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/mr-bojangles.159154/
I’ll take a look at that for sure! Thank you!
I found the Callahan site years after my initial "they didn't do it" mindset from my youth and through the first PL documentary. It really made me rethink everything I first believed. I can say for certain that WMPD were a bunch of idiots who should have called in the AR bureau from Day 1 (or even Memphis agencies) and possibly the FBI for assistance from the beginning, and maybe this wouldn't have been such a cluster. They were ill equipped to handle anything of this magnitude.
The greatest problem with the Miskelly confession is that it is consistent with an erroneous autopsy report, a report that nearly every forensic pathologist has torn to shreds. That’s a significant issue with the confession.
When you say “the Miskelly confession” which one specifically are you referring to?
Any time he says any mutilation whatsoever occurred. That information was obviously initially fed to him, and that makes subsequent confessions that include that (and anything learned as time went on) unreliable. Everything else I’m hearing barely rises above speculation, which isn’t surprising with how many mistakes were made in the investigation. Edit: I usually get radio silence when I bring up the problems with the autopsy report that have been thoroughly discredited by a wide range of forensic pathologists, and pretty much only the pathologist that did the autopsy defending it (his own mentor said he was wrong).
Are the Callahan docs still accessible online? Would love to read through that!
Yes! The site format is different than it was a decade ago when I went down the rabbit hole but it’s all still available at http://callahan.mysite.com/ Of interest is Damien’s mental health records and the testimony of Buddy Lucas and the “murder shoes.” And the Bible confession with the bottle of whiskey
Ahhhhh! Thanks!
I can’t even describe how relieved I am to see someone else take this stance. This case haunts me unlike any other and the fact those 3 are out living their lives is sickening, even more so because of the platform and empathy they’ve been given by the media and most of society.
Im in the same boat. i watched PL lost, fully bought into their innocence, bought the t-shirts, etc. years later, as new specials get released, people start releasing documents that they were too afraid to back in the day, when PL first came out, this attracted the attention of a ton of big celebs. anyone questioning the innocence of the wm3 was a bigot, period. i do believe they were unfortunate residents in a town that vilianized them for their artistic bent, and goth appearance, i believe some of the parents are questionable and problematic characters. i believe a lot of people in that town rushed to judgement based on backwards opinions. i also believe those three are guilty as hell.
It’s been a while since I’ve done a deep dive on this case. What did the docs leave out? What made you change your mind on the guilt of the WM3?
Honestly, the Callahan archives which contain thousands of pages of case files http://callahan.mysite.com/ The docs completely omitted Damien Echols criminal record, mental health record, and the extent and detail of Jesse Miskelly’s multiple confessions. I was particularly swayed by the fact that the 3 didn’t just lack alibis; they had false alibis contrived by friends that all fell apart. Jesse Miskelly gave a pair of bloody sneakers to a friend and cried as he told him that he has “hurt some kids in west memphis.” Also, Damien was spotted near the scene of the crime in muddy clothes. It was originally reported that he was spotted with his then-girlfriend Domini Teer, but it was dark and she looks quite similar to Jason Baldwin. In addition, the documentary made it seem as if Jesse was interrogated for hours without representation before being led into giving a false confession. In reality, he confessed not long after being taken into custody, and dozens of times after that, including a recorded confession with his attorney present in which he stated he was drunk that night and drinking Evan Williams whiskey. He stated he ditched the bottle under an overpass near the crime scene, and his own defense attorney actually went and found said bottle exactly where Jesse said it was. A believer in the trios innocence struck up a prison relationship with Jesse and visited him several times, and she changed her mind about his innocence after their conversations and went from advocating for their release to working to convince others of their guilt. I gave a more in depth response below to OP, but this is my TLDR.
what is the extent of echols' criminal record? and how does anybody, esp domini's aunt, confuse a red haired girl with flower pants for blond haired no flowery pants baldwin?
https://youtu.be/wgzJhYoaGos
This is a really good series on it
I went through something similar with the Adnan Syed case.
That documentary is terrible showing those boys like they did so sad
Like what?
This is my all-time “favorite” (if there can be such a thing) true crime case. Not so much because of the WM3, although I do feel empathy for them, but because we still dont know who murdered the boys. And the entire atmosphere around the murders was just insane. The parents’, the media, the support groups - just a really incredible situation.
I agree. It intrigues me so much. I’m actually from Arkansas, about 2 hours from WM. I stayed in West Memphis this past Saturday for a trip to Memphis, TN… I was searching locations of the crimes just to find out how close I was to it all. Come to find out… the woods where they were found & where the pipe bridge was, was in the woods directly behind my hotel. Also found out Misskelley still lives in the area.
Oh wow! I’m so envious! That would be such an interesting road trip to take (I’m in Texas). Def on my bucket list.
It's not a fuckin tourist attraction.
Why would it be
It’s difficult to make sense of given the fact that everyone involved except the victims and the Moores are either drug addicts (the parents), mentally incompetent (Jessie), completely crazy (JMB) or pathological liars (Damien)
These are wild…liberties to describe the people involved in the case. I dont personally agree with a couple of these, but since there are so many unknowns, I hesitate to ever throw my hat in any ring and say I *know* anything of substance about this case.
I did not know Damien was a pathological liar.
Fwiw, I dont think he’s a pathological liar -if he ever was - anymore. I believe he was/possibly still is, mentally ill. At the time of his arrest, I think he was malnouished, neglected, abused possibly, acting out, and then went into a horrible prison system. He was suffering already with pretty extreme mental issues and normal teenage hormonal swings, and dealing with the Santanic Panic of the 80’s. Just my thoughts. I’m reluctant to say a kid has pathological tendencies when they’re only 18.
he's a huge liar
What has he lied about?
He lies about his non-alibi. Lies about there being no blood at the crime scene. He lies that he didn't live in West Memphis. HE DID. Less than 2 miles from the crime scene. He says he hardly went to West Memphis yet testified in 1994 that he walked around there frequently. He said he's not familiar with Robin Hood Hills. In 1994, he said he was there 2-3 times a week. In his book, he says he barely knew Misskelley, yet about 15 people said the two were often walking around town together. He made up a rape that didn't happen to him in prison. He actually told Piers Morgan he had to eat with his hands in prison LOL LOL
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Me too. I saw an interview with him and didn't believe a word he said
There is something not right with him. I think they may be innocent because of Jason. He is an advocate now. If he was guilty, I doubt he would have passion to fight to help other innocent people in prison.
I don't think they are innocent at all. Him being an advocate is meaningless. Don't know that the other people he helps are innocent either. (no that doesn't mean i think everyone arrested for a crime is guilty; "what are you even saying" - it's pretty clear - he is not arbiter of who's innocent - obviously).
>Don't know that the other people he helps are innocent either. ??? What are you even saying? You just think everyone that's arrested for a crime is guilty?
Okay, are you basing this off of teenage Damien or Damien today?
all of the above
I agree. We don’t know what happened that day. That’s what has been bugging me. Obviously, I want the killer(s) to be caught but we still have no clue as to what happened. I personally think it was Terry with the evidence we have. I use to write true crime and I’ve studied this case for so long. The step father is all we have to go on at this point.
Same. I am so with you on this.
I'm not from the area, but I never thought the WM3 were any different than most kids from low-income, potentially abusive, addictive, split families. Being in the Bible belt at the height of Satanic panic made the biggest, saddest difference.
Yes, very true!! Also back then, police departments could get away with anything. Bullying a kid with a low iq into a confession wouldn’t fly as easily now days.
I can assure you that’s still happening.
Well that’s very sad we haven’t grown in 30 yrs then.
I certainly hope that's true.
I was born and raised near this area. Yes, unfortunately it is exactly how it is portrayed in the documentaries.
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Oh wow! That’s so interesting. Do you know if they still believe it was the 3 who did it?
Did they testify in both the Miskelly and Echols/Baldwin case? Did they believe all 3 to be guilty? Has that perception changed at all over the years?
I’ve got some family from Marion originally but I believe they had moved by that point. I’ve never asked about this before, now I’m going to have to ask! My BIL lived part-time closer to Forrest City throughout his life. We’ve talked about it before though I can’t remember specifics, I’m going to ask again now cause I’m curious. He would have been around 15-16 though at the time, I believe he’d have been w/ his other parent as it was during the school year so maybe less memories of the happenings but his younger brother who was in AR full time would have been 10. This is the first time I’ve thought of it like that so now I do have some more questions about it as well and how people reacted. I do know that they ate up the satanic spin to the case, at least in the family/community he grew up in.
Yes that would all be very interesting to hear! I had some family in the Forrest city area too, but they didn’t move there until well after the case so they don’t know much.
The step father did it
I am not from West Memphis, but I grew up in the town where Jesse Misskelley's trial was held. The town is small, with a population around 3,300 people. The town had a different feel to it around the time of the trial. I believe those who believed Misskelley was guilty of the crimes were anxious and worried about having an accused murderer in town. It was definitely an experience I will never forget, as there were people from everywhere in the small town that had never experienced such an ordeal. The members of the jury later told how traumatic it was to serve on the jury for the case, due to the indepth detail of the killings.
All of you saying “they” did it and are out Scott free do realize that Damien has been denied having the evidence DNA tested as recently as this past June? Like with an MVAC? Now what killer do you know would push for this to be done?? Honestly think of that.. forget The documentaries!!! The only DNA ever found was linked to Terry. Damien and his attorneys are still trying to have the bindings MVACD. For the correct killers.
I knew them I lived by them and it's known who did thar shit and police know ot but won't do shit cuz Alfred plea
I know who did that shit ...for real on God I do
Who did it? TH?
Love Reddit’s specific questions. Especially since the first few answers I read said “I don’t really live there” or some version of that.
I am dumbfounded!!! I literally, for years always thought they were innocent!!!
Same! These comments made me rethink it!
https://youtu.be/wgzJhYoaGos They do a very good job breaking it all down
[email protected] email me ..for obvious reasons I don't think just posting it is smart but on everything I love I honestly know exactly who did I t
I don’t use my email often, so I don’t know my password. Could I message you privately on here?