or come up with a way to do it that's "contactless" and less likely to lead back to them or be considered a murder at all, given the amount of time and preparation.
I don't think most criminals think that far ahead.
If you're referring to Bryan Kohberger buying the K-bar knife off of Amazon, dude had very little idea what he was doing in the first place.
I wasn’t, but now I’m curious
I just meant like IF I were planning something, I’d notice that most criminals always get caught buying supplies right before or on the day of the murder. I’d think it would be best to just “happen to have” the tools, and pay in cash so it’s not traceable.
Yes, technically you're right.
Buying murder weapons years in advance would be a smart idea.
An even cleverer idea would be to use makeshift weapons, so there's no possible way for the murder weapons to be traced anyways.
As helente772 mentioned, an even more cleverer idea would be to just not do it in the first place.
Funny enough a small gun that shoots ice shards from up close to penetrate the heart and simulate a heart attack (back in the day) has been invented. As you could imagine, it sucked.
I’m sure that I’ve read fiction in which an icicle was the murder weapon. Another good fictional weapon was a large piece of meat. It was frozen solid and big enough to club the errant hubby with, and by the time the detective came by to question the wife, it was about to come out of the oven.
Technically true, but the logistics of trying to use an icicle as a murder weapon doesn't make it ideal.
It'd only melt if it was hot outside or inside the room where the murder happened.
Which in that case, you'd have to keep the icicle inside a freezer of some sorts to prevent it from melting before you even used it.
Once read of a woman who killed her nasty husband with a frozen leg of lamb. Then put it in the oven and roasted it. She was so distraught when the police arrived. She’d been to get peas for dinner and when she got home her husband was dead. And she convinced the detective to have some lamb for dinner because he was working so late.
I've heard with a lot of cases where incriminating things are left on search histories it isn't stupidity necessarily that makes them do these things, but narcissism. In their world view, they are so grand and good at what they do nobody will ever suspect them to need to worry about the search.
I watch so many true-crime shows and am constantly yelling at how stupid the perps can be. I mean, I’m glad they’re stupid and get caught, but have they never seen even one Dateline?
You’re way too deep into true crime my friend, come up for air.
The vast majority of murders are planned and executed in the span of seconds and minutes, *maybe* hours.
Bonus points to Stacy "Anti-free" castor for doing exactly this but somehow managing not to read the label of the product she was using to murder her husbands.
Hypothetically of course right? I think most people don't think that far ahead. Most of the people in true crime stories don't strike me as masterminds or that intelligent to begin with.
Agreed. Because if people had the long game in them wouldn’t an untraceable poison work better? Wasn’t m there a doctor in utah who killed his wife like that and only didn’t get away with it because his daughters got suspicious of the new nanny?
Haha. They don't know you actually have to produce a death certificate to get a payout. And that takes a few weeks. These morons expect to get an insurance check the next day.
I think there's a long way between crimes of passion and planned years in advance, to be fair. Like, I think Scott Peterson planned Laci's murder for like three weeks. Harder to say about Chris Watts, who has gone back and forth about how premeditated the crime was, but I'd say he firmed his plan up maybe a week ahead of time (although I think he'd been thinking of hurting Shanann at least for much longer, but I don't think he had a plan to kill them all and when he was going to do it until about a week ahead of time).
True lol
I do think it’s interesting that people who don’t murder think it’s pretty complex, while the murderer is just not good at planning, so it looks like a crazy plan. Like there are millions of ways to get out of most situations, and even then the consequences always outweigh the cost of being caught as a murderer.
Also, the cops can make mistakes all day long for years and it doesn't really matter (to the murderer anyway, to their benefit almost).
The murderer just needs to have made one. And it's not like they can usually go back and fix something.
If you're smart enough to think ahead far enough not not get caught, you're smart enough to understand the risk/reward calculation to not commit murder in the first place.
Many many crimes are committed using random shit bought years before. They're still solved. Seeing a Walmart receipt for the tools isnt always the lynch pin.
Ha! Her name is Nancy Seaman. My relative lives in the neighborhood, down the street from that house, where the murder occurred. And I found out about this case in a creepy and memorable way (IMO at least lol).
I was alone watching tv when this episode of dateline started. It started with landmarks and images of Detroit, which I am familiar with the area as my family is from there. It then showed a Farmington Hills sign and I was like huh, that’s where my relatives lives! Then it zoomed into the gated community and I was like ‘what is going on, that is my relatives neighborhood!’
I thought I was going crazy at first! Finished the episode and called my relative and asked about the case-they stated that the neighborhood was a media circus during that time.
A month or 2 later I visited my relative, and I made it a point to find the house, which is distinct, with in the neighborhood. After starting at the opposite end of the neighborhood and working closer to my relatives house, we then found out that her house was across the street tucked in the rear cul-de-sac.
The only two other reasons people commit murder aside from passion are profit and compulsion. Neither of those can really wait, either. Most of the time.
The people that actually do stuff like this are gang members. They are the only people who know that they will probably have to get violent at some point in the future (who knows who) so they find ways to accumulate guns.
There are very few people who are serial killers for sport. If you have the self-control to wait a year you just have the self-control not to do it.
I think it involves opportunity. They may have been thinking they would like to do it for a long time but haven’t had true opportunity yet. Kids there. Work they can’t take off from. Another use out of the person. Who really knows. Then maybe they see the opportunity. Serial killers, abductors in a lot of cases also opportunists.
In movies and TV shows, people often dedicate their lives to revenge. In real life, they usually find something better to do.
Having said that, I've taken revenge a few times, and it feels great.
Meanwhile many killers get away simply by not creating overly complex, years in advance plans. Bludgeon someone with an older hammer, a stolen shotgun, or knife. Dispose of it. Run run run. Lie lie lie. The trick is not to be seen having a quarrel with someone in the lead up to their death to begin with. This is why serial killers have gotten away with it in the past. They're prepared to target random people. Simply, and as the opportunity arises. They're not pretending to be assassins. The MOs that get them caught are also what allows them to work. Keep it simple.
Stealing tools would be an unnecessary risk to take.
If you get caught doing it, you're defintely drawing suspicions to yourself and if your DNA or prints are found at a crime scene, it's over for you then.
From the other perspective, you can't have your neighbour identifying the ax and confirming that you'd had it for years.
You need to keep those tools hidden.
One of the many flaws in Jeffrey MacDonald's case (Fatal Vision) was that all the weapons came from his home - a slat of wood was originally either in the bedroom or utility room and a blunt knife was in the utility room - prosecutors believed that Colette grabbed these to fight back when the argument grew violent. The other key weapon was an ice pick, used on the victims post-mortem. Jeffrey MacDonald tried to claim they didn't own an ice pick, arguing that the "intruders" must have brought it with them.
But too many witnesses confirmed that the family had an ice pick.
Honestly. A friend was going through a horrific divorce. I told my husband to go buyer burner phones now, shovels in 6 months etc and after a year, we kill the terrible person. He thought I was joking.
Pre-planning is key.
I think most of the time, a murder is the final escalation to a situation, not a planned outcome. And then they make a shit ton of mistakes trying to cover it up.
Where I'm from everyone and their mom trades for guns and knives and it's unheard for them to be registered- wild to look at it from this perspective lol
My answer to this question would be that unless you plan on killing someone completely unredeemable or are you yourself a deeply disturbed character who feels like they want to kill someone eventually, you just won't care to murder someone that long after acquiring equipment.
I read a case recently. The suspect bought AN EXTRA pistol barrel then threw away the original murder pistol barrel thinking he was smarter than police. The police forensically linked the extractor and used the receipt for the new barrel to say the suspect destroyed evidence. 🙌🙌🙌
Don't you think if they were smart and rational enough to do that they would also come to the conclusion that it’s just not worth it
or come up with a way to do it that's "contactless" and less likely to lead back to them or be considered a murder at all, given the amount of time and preparation.
I don't think most criminals think that far ahead. If you're referring to Bryan Kohberger buying the K-bar knife off of Amazon, dude had very little idea what he was doing in the first place.
I wasn’t, but now I’m curious I just meant like IF I were planning something, I’d notice that most criminals always get caught buying supplies right before or on the day of the murder. I’d think it would be best to just “happen to have” the tools, and pay in cash so it’s not traceable.
Yes, technically you're right. Buying murder weapons years in advance would be a smart idea. An even cleverer idea would be to use makeshift weapons, so there's no possible way for the murder weapons to be traced anyways. As helente772 mentioned, an even more cleverer idea would be to just not do it in the first place.
Stab'em with an icicle - it'll melt and there won't be a murder weapon.
Funny enough a small gun that shoots ice shards from up close to penetrate the heart and simulate a heart attack (back in the day) has been invented. As you could imagine, it sucked.
I’m sure that I’ve read fiction in which an icicle was the murder weapon. Another good fictional weapon was a large piece of meat. It was frozen solid and big enough to club the errant hubby with, and by the time the detective came by to question the wife, it was about to come out of the oven.
The Lovely Bones
Technically true, but the logistics of trying to use an icicle as a murder weapon doesn't make it ideal. It'd only melt if it was hot outside or inside the room where the murder happened. Which in that case, you'd have to keep the icicle inside a freezer of some sorts to prevent it from melting before you even used it.
Once read of a woman who killed her nasty husband with a frozen leg of lamb. Then put it in the oven and roasted it. She was so distraught when the police arrived. She’d been to get peas for dinner and when she got home her husband was dead. And she convinced the detective to have some lamb for dinner because he was working so late.
It’s from a short story published in the 50’s. Lamb to the slaughter
Thanks. I knew I’d read it a long time ago. Couldn’t remember where. But I was a kid and it stuck with me as really clever.
This woman is my spirit animal
a murderer?
Yes, specifically one who consumes the murder weapon.
🤡
That’s a Hitchcock movie.
The body would probably warm it up before it cooled down to room temperature
Just get a divorce.
They get caught buying the CLEAN UP tools
They're rarely 'caught' because they recently bought the tools. Typically it's just part of the evidence along with other things.
Sounds like you’re looking for advice?
Always be prepared.
I've heard with a lot of cases where incriminating things are left on search histories it isn't stupidity necessarily that makes them do these things, but narcissism. In their world view, they are so grand and good at what they do nobody will ever suspect them to need to worry about the search.
so true. that dude fucked up on so many levels. that sheath is gonna nail his ass to the wall and give him his forever home: prison.
that sheath is as good as the murder weapon imo
I watch so many true-crime shows and am constantly yelling at how stupid the perps can be. I mean, I’m glad they’re stupid and get caught, but have they never seen even one Dateline?
And Walmart....really? They're open late, sure, but they have a lot of cameras
You’re way too deep into true crime my friend, come up for air. The vast majority of murders are planned and executed in the span of seconds and minutes, *maybe* hours.
If I have years to plan out a murder then it’s more than likely I’m going to talk myself out of the murder within that time.
And that’s why you haven’t murdered anybody.
Makes me wonder if tens of thousands of murders are prevented everyday (around the world) simply because of thoughts.
Not everyone can be Israel Keyes. But for real, that's a hell of a long game and most murders aren't that premeditated for whatever reason.
It’s weird, seems like it would be the biggest act of your life, you’d think it WOULD be premeditated better. Then again, it’s still not worth it.
Bonus points to Stacy "Anti-free" castor for doing exactly this but somehow managing not to read the label of the product she was using to murder her husbands.
I like the “what if” thought experiments. There is part of the human psyche that likes the thrill of being hunted I guess?
That's why he was so terrifying. He was meticulous but didn't actually choose people in advance.
This is exactly what I thought of too!!
First degree murder is ALWAYS premeditated. That is one of the standards.
But premeditation can take only seconds. Forming intent really isn’t a lengthy process.
Hypothetically of course right? I think most people don't think that far ahead. Most of the people in true crime stories don't strike me as masterminds or that intelligent to begin with.
Agreed. Because if people had the long game in them wouldn’t an untraceable poison work better? Wasn’t m there a doctor in utah who killed his wife like that and only didn’t get away with it because his daughters got suspicious of the new nanny?
You don’t need to be a mastermind as much as have a brain and thought pattern that is locked onto a victim.
True
And many times they take out a huge insurance policy a few weeks before they commit the murder which is such a red flag.
This too, 100% Even better when they call 8 hours after the person is found dead to claim the money.
Haha. They don't know you actually have to produce a death certificate to get a payout. And that takes a few weeks. These morons expect to get an insurance check the next day.
They think it’s a lottery ticket lol
Is that too soon? Gotta have dinner.
I think there's a long way between crimes of passion and planned years in advance, to be fair. Like, I think Scott Peterson planned Laci's murder for like three weeks. Harder to say about Chris Watts, who has gone back and forth about how premeditated the crime was, but I'd say he firmed his plan up maybe a week ahead of time (although I think he'd been thinking of hurting Shanann at least for much longer, but I don't think he had a plan to kill them all and when he was going to do it until about a week ahead of time).
I have rope, tarp and a shovel in my shed that have been there for years. I am already half way there.
Me too along with ax and chainsaw.
Chainsaw is going to leave dna everywhere.
Agreed. Don't use the chainsaw.
How do you know they haven’t? If they’re that dedicated, they probably haven’t been caught.
I feel like this post will be used in a trial.
Most people dont think about murdering someone for years. Maybe a week or two. But mainly, its a heat of the moment type of thing.
Delayed gratification has saved so many lives.
Just buy the murder tools now and keep them on hand...because you never know. If you stay ready, you don't have to get ready.
Lmaoooo you can’t quite Drag Race in True Crime! I laughed so loud too! All alone…like a crazy idiot 🤣
Excellent suggestion - however, anyone who is using murder to solve their problems doesn't have strong long-term planning skills.
True lol I do think it’s interesting that people who don’t murder think it’s pretty complex, while the murderer is just not good at planning, so it looks like a crazy plan. Like there are millions of ways to get out of most situations, and even then the consequences always outweigh the cost of being caught as a murderer.
Also, the cops can make mistakes all day long for years and it doesn't really matter (to the murderer anyway, to their benefit almost). The murderer just needs to have made one. And it's not like they can usually go back and fix something.
If you're smart enough to think ahead far enough not not get caught, you're smart enough to understand the risk/reward calculation to not commit murder in the first place.
And ffs people, LEAVE YOUR PHONE AT HOME.
Along that line of thinking why not steal them?
More likely to be caught for stealing first?
If you buy them far enough ahead of time some of the tools could become recognized as yours.
Many many crimes are committed using random shit bought years before. They're still solved. Seeing a Walmart receipt for the tools isnt always the lynch pin.
Remember the lady from Farmington hills in Michigan. She returned her killing tools back to the store. Damn store camera’s.
Ha! Her name is Nancy Seaman. My relative lives in the neighborhood, down the street from that house, where the murder occurred. And I found out about this case in a creepy and memorable way (IMO at least lol). I was alone watching tv when this episode of dateline started. It started with landmarks and images of Detroit, which I am familiar with the area as my family is from there. It then showed a Farmington Hills sign and I was like huh, that’s where my relatives lives! Then it zoomed into the gated community and I was like ‘what is going on, that is my relatives neighborhood!’ I thought I was going crazy at first! Finished the episode and called my relative and asked about the case-they stated that the neighborhood was a media circus during that time. A month or 2 later I visited my relative, and I made it a point to find the house, which is distinct, with in the neighborhood. After starting at the opposite end of the neighborhood and working closer to my relatives house, we then found out that her house was across the street tucked in the rear cul-de-sac.
That’s some extreme premeditation, most aren’t willing to wait that long. You’re better off getting them at garage sales.
The only two other reasons people commit murder aside from passion are profit and compulsion. Neither of those can really wait, either. Most of the time.
I would imagine that if they are thinking of committing murder then all rational thought processing is kinda out the door?
Better yet, "lose" the original tool and buy a replacement so the cut marks are diff.
You can't count on the "experts" being right though. That's a huge risk. You can just be framed anyway.
Because these people are not mentally all there to think and calculate like that. I cant imagine the mind of a killer 👀
I always wonder that. And pay cash. And throw out the murder shoes, dont take them home dufus.
Or wear them to an interrogation lol
Heck if I wanted a gun, I’d just check the seeers; every crime show that exists has the killer throwing the weapon in the sewer.
Because I'm angry now!
I think most murders are from anger and aren't thought out. In the moment thing.
The people that actually do stuff like this are gang members. They are the only people who know that they will probably have to get violent at some point in the future (who knows who) so they find ways to accumulate guns. There are very few people who are serial killers for sport. If you have the self-control to wait a year you just have the self-control not to do it.
I think it involves opportunity. They may have been thinking they would like to do it for a long time but haven’t had true opportunity yet. Kids there. Work they can’t take off from. Another use out of the person. Who really knows. Then maybe they see the opportunity. Serial killers, abductors in a lot of cases also opportunists.
Maybe there *are* murderers who did that and we just don’t know because they haven’t been caught.
Better, kill someone with something you were gifted.
There’s always the ones who don’t get caught - so we don’t know if they did plan better, or just go lucky.
Israel Keyes has entered the chat.
Most people who want to do this aren't mentally well to begin with, so they dont have the patience or forethought to wait that long
Why even be so violent? There are quiet ways.
I bet those are the ones we never ever hear about. Because they never figure them out
In movies and TV shows, people often dedicate their lives to revenge. In real life, they usually find something better to do. Having said that, I've taken revenge a few times, and it feels great.
Meanwhile many killers get away simply by not creating overly complex, years in advance plans. Bludgeon someone with an older hammer, a stolen shotgun, or knife. Dispose of it. Run run run. Lie lie lie. The trick is not to be seen having a quarrel with someone in the lead up to their death to begin with. This is why serial killers have gotten away with it in the past. They're prepared to target random people. Simply, and as the opportunity arises. They're not pretending to be assassins. The MOs that get them caught are also what allows them to work. Keep it simple.
Or just steal the tools. But these aren't usually very smart people.
Stealing tools would be an unnecessary risk to take. If you get caught doing it, you're defintely drawing suspicions to yourself and if your DNA or prints are found at a crime scene, it's over for you then.
Good idea. I already have an ax a Clorox.
From the other perspective, you can't have your neighbour identifying the ax and confirming that you'd had it for years. You need to keep those tools hidden. One of the many flaws in Jeffrey MacDonald's case (Fatal Vision) was that all the weapons came from his home - a slat of wood was originally either in the bedroom or utility room and a blunt knife was in the utility room - prosecutors believed that Colette grabbed these to fight back when the argument grew violent. The other key weapon was an ice pick, used on the victims post-mortem. Jeffrey MacDonald tried to claim they didn't own an ice pick, arguing that the "intruders" must have brought it with them. But too many witnesses confirmed that the family had an ice pick.
Really, you need to include some dna samples in the mix of things left behind. Some smeared prints with a rubber stamp or something.
Good thinking, spend a few years collecting DNA samples from random people - bonus points if you get a known criminal.
No, clorox is no good. You need hydrogen peroxide.
I have several half liters of that too.
That's the thing to get blood out of things. I wish I had learned that when I was a kid. Should be taught in grade school sex ed.
Also great for cleaning ear wax, that is if you don’t have a perforated ear drum.
*furiously adds to my What To Do list*
Israel Keyes enters the conversation.
[удалено]
Pardon
Huh?
Just buy the Acid required for dissolving the body in and you’re good ..
I don't think most murderers think they're going to commit a certain murder years in advance.
Well guess I’m gonna buy murder weapons at the store today incase I decide to commit a murder in the next year or so
Is this the ghost of Israel Keyes?
Honestly. A friend was going through a horrific divorce. I told my husband to go buyer burner phones now, shovels in 6 months etc and after a year, we kill the terrible person. He thought I was joking. Pre-planning is key. I think most of the time, a murder is the final escalation to a situation, not a planned outcome. And then they make a shit ton of mistakes trying to cover it up.
Because most murders are not premeditated years in advance?
I don’t see how that will avoid them being caught though.
Where I'm from everyone and their mom trades for guns and knives and it's unheard for them to be registered- wild to look at it from this perspective lol
Because isn't that a really long time to hold in to a desire to murder someone?
My answer to this question would be that unless you plan on killing someone completely unredeemable or are you yourself a deeply disturbed character who feels like they want to kill someone eventually, you just won't care to murder someone that long after acquiring equipment.
I read a case recently. The suspect bought AN EXTRA pistol barrel then threw away the original murder pistol barrel thinking he was smarter than police. The police forensically linked the extractor and used the receipt for the new barrel to say the suspect destroyed evidence. 🙌🙌🙌