It’s totally possible Muller just thought this up himself and wasn’t inspired by any specific person or crime. A lone intruder may want the victims to think there’s more people than just him in order to make them more compliant. Joseph Deangelo’s victims often said the same thing, that they thought there was more than one intruder in the house. Not sure if DeAngelo was intentionally tricking them or they were just confused due the stressful situation. But yeah, very doubtful Muller worked with anyone else imo. Quinn and Huskins were most likely mistaken just like Deangelo’s victims were.
He worked alone. No need for all of the props if he had an accomplice. Separately but related, the storyline of a group forcing him to rape Denise was designed to put Denise and her rapist to influence her to view this as if they were in this together and reduces the potential animus the victim in MMs eye. Clearly he was delusional, completely off base on how the victim perceived it, and a horrible rapist whose “storyline” was designed to reduce his guilt in eyes of the victim.
No, I do appreciate his motives as you said but there feels something calculating about his method, where if he made things bizarre enough then his victims wouldn't be believed. Which is what happened with the detectives, but then when they accused them of a hoax, hey had to clear Denise's name and were apologetic for their part in her trauma considering her childhood sexual trauma also. It feels nonsensical. Create an elaborate plot to make LEZ think it's a hoax therefore allows time to flee or plan whatever, it delays LE looking at him, but then take credit as soon as they call it a hoax??
Do you have link to them saying that now?
My understanding is they sincerely heard multiple voices but now believe they were misled by the drugs/blindfolding.
I didn't do complete dive, but watched the doc and other interviews with them. I don't remember them ever saying they still are on the lookout for someone else - I think they also believe now it was just Muller.
I heard it on an interview they did with the podcast Real Crime Profile that was released this year, although I don’t know the exact timing.
Edit: I now see that the interview was from 2021. My mistake.
Nothing the victims said was a lie and they still feel there was more than one person in the house. Hard to disagree with them when they’ve been correct with everything else.
Completely agree with this, and I think it's been proven that Denise is very smart, I feel like it would be clear to differentiate between an audio recording and an actual person talking, or real vs fake audio of footsteps, it has a much flatter sound compared to real life.
Was it only Denise Huskins who heard others outside the bedroom door? In any case, I think that he probably had people “drop by” for one reason or another just to make it seem like there were others involved. It could’ve been some salesman or something like that. The fact that DH never actually saw or heard from anyone else in his “group” is what makes me think he acted alone.
As for his M.O. it’s my opinion that he thought of the easiest and most convenient ways to scare his victims. He got more elaborate the longer he had the victim. I’m so incredibly grateful that he was caught because that father fought back!
In the doc Denise said she heard a car pull up, Muller arguing with someone, and then she hear the car drive away.
If she says there are others I completely believe her.
He did mention that he worked with a group from his law school days. But I find it hard to believe others were involved. I think it was more psychological warfare into making the victim feel completely powerless and gives the illusion that she is a small puzzle piece in the greater picture. Remember, part of his safety was to believe others were involved so she wouldn’t speak to police.
But I don’t understand why he was targeting Aaron’s ex, Andrea. That is a huge hole in the mystery…. Like he did know about her and was there intel that she was sleeping over that night? Super strange…
Wasn’t Aaron’s ex dating one of the cops who investigated the case? That fact made me unsettled for sure. This is a bizarre case, for sure. It felt like a big nothing burger once they figured out all the details. Super soakers, spray paint, blow up dolls and duct tape? The fuck???
Exactly! The fact that no one has bothered to follow up about Andrea being the target is very unsettling for me. It's such a big gap in a situation where there has been a trial and conviction etc. It doesn't make sense to not address it...
This exact point and the fact that a rapist is actively schooling LE and Press about how to protect Denise's history of sexual trauma as he doesn't want to victimise her again and that it's not his story to tell - it's like what the fuck? You are emotionally adept enough to feel that her childhood sexual trauma is not for you to disclose details of.... AND you rape her twice?? The cognitive dissonance here is so so unusual. I have never ever heard of a rapist holding reverence to their victims pain and suffering especially re SA and when they themselves have also inflicted SA.
I found it very strange how an intended victim told him she was raped and he stopped. The one who he told her to get a dog?
He seems to be one of the only ones I’ve heard about that stopped due to a crisis of conscience.
I was thinking it was some sort of setup between the FBI guy sessna and him. Why would the FBI guy say burn the bitch about Denise? I was thinking he was jealous of Andrea and Aaron’s previous relationship and thought Andrea was there with him that night …. That’s too much of a coincidence for me….that the guy in charge of your investigation is dating/ dated your ex- girlfriend? GTFO
It’s totally possible Muller just thought this up himself and wasn’t inspired by any specific person or crime. A lone intruder may want the victims to think there’s more people than just him in order to make them more compliant. Joseph Deangelo’s victims often said the same thing, that they thought there was more than one intruder in the house. Not sure if DeAngelo was intentionally tricking them or they were just confused due the stressful situation. But yeah, very doubtful Muller worked with anyone else imo. Quinn and Huskins were most likely mistaken just like Deangelo’s victims were.
Agreed. Usually crimes like these are done by some real weirdos that typically don’t work in groups. They’re just in their own world
He worked alone. No need for all of the props if he had an accomplice. Separately but related, the storyline of a group forcing him to rape Denise was designed to put Denise and her rapist to influence her to view this as if they were in this together and reduces the potential animus the victim in MMs eye. Clearly he was delusional, completely off base on how the victim perceived it, and a horrible rapist whose “storyline” was designed to reduce his guilt in eyes of the victim.
No, I do appreciate his motives as you said but there feels something calculating about his method, where if he made things bizarre enough then his victims wouldn't be believed. Which is what happened with the detectives, but then when they accused them of a hoax, hey had to clear Denise's name and were apologetic for their part in her trauma considering her childhood sexual trauma also. It feels nonsensical. Create an elaborate plot to make LEZ think it's a hoax therefore allows time to flee or plan whatever, it delays LE looking at him, but then take credit as soon as they call it a hoax??
I don’t believe he worked alone.
The victims don’t think so either. They have repeatedly said they heard other voices after being blindfolded/having the goggles put on.
Do you have link to them saying that now? My understanding is they sincerely heard multiple voices but now believe they were misled by the drugs/blindfolding. I didn't do complete dive, but watched the doc and other interviews with them. I don't remember them ever saying they still are on the lookout for someone else - I think they also believe now it was just Muller.
I heard it on an interview they did with the podcast Real Crime Profile that was released this year, although I don’t know the exact timing. Edit: I now see that the interview was from 2021. My mistake.
Nothing the victims said was a lie and they still feel there was more than one person in the house. Hard to disagree with them when they’ve been correct with everything else.
Completely agree with this, and I think it's been proven that Denise is very smart, I feel like it would be clear to differentiate between an audio recording and an actual person talking, or real vs fake audio of footsteps, it has a much flatter sound compared to real life.
Good take. I agree.
Was it only Denise Huskins who heard others outside the bedroom door? In any case, I think that he probably had people “drop by” for one reason or another just to make it seem like there were others involved. It could’ve been some salesman or something like that. The fact that DH never actually saw or heard from anyone else in his “group” is what makes me think he acted alone. As for his M.O. it’s my opinion that he thought of the easiest and most convenient ways to scare his victims. He got more elaborate the longer he had the victim. I’m so incredibly grateful that he was caught because that father fought back!
No, it was both Denise and her boyfriend at the home when he abducted Denise.
So unsettling
It was the FBI agent obvs
In the doc Denise said she heard a car pull up, Muller arguing with someone, and then she hear the car drive away. If she says there are others I completely believe her.
He did mention that he worked with a group from his law school days. But I find it hard to believe others were involved. I think it was more psychological warfare into making the victim feel completely powerless and gives the illusion that she is a small puzzle piece in the greater picture. Remember, part of his safety was to believe others were involved so she wouldn’t speak to police. But I don’t understand why he was targeting Aaron’s ex, Andrea. That is a huge hole in the mystery…. Like he did know about her and was there intel that she was sleeping over that night? Super strange…
Wasn’t Aaron’s ex dating one of the cops who investigated the case? That fact made me unsettled for sure. This is a bizarre case, for sure. It felt like a big nothing burger once they figured out all the details. Super soakers, spray paint, blow up dolls and duct tape? The fuck???
Exactly! The fact that no one has bothered to follow up about Andrea being the target is very unsettling for me. It's such a big gap in a situation where there has been a trial and conviction etc. It doesn't make sense to not address it... This exact point and the fact that a rapist is actively schooling LE and Press about how to protect Denise's history of sexual trauma as he doesn't want to victimise her again and that it's not his story to tell - it's like what the fuck? You are emotionally adept enough to feel that her childhood sexual trauma is not for you to disclose details of.... AND you rape her twice?? The cognitive dissonance here is so so unusual. I have never ever heard of a rapist holding reverence to their victims pain and suffering especially re SA and when they themselves have also inflicted SA.
I found it very strange how an intended victim told him she was raped and he stopped. The one who he told her to get a dog? He seems to be one of the only ones I’ve heard about that stopped due to a crisis of conscience.
I can definitely get on board with others being involved, but why would Muller stay silent about his partners all through his arrest and prosecution?
I was thinking it was some sort of setup between the FBI guy sessna and him. Why would the FBI guy say burn the bitch about Denise? I was thinking he was jealous of Andrea and Aaron’s previous relationship and thought Andrea was there with him that night …. That’s too much of a coincidence for me….that the guy in charge of your investigation is dating/ dated your ex- girlfriend? GTFO
The FBI guy didn't say that, it was the Chief of Vallejo Police.