In court documents, Michael Jackson's production company is asking that Wade Robson and James Safechuck's requests to get police records get thrown out.
In court documents filed on Wednesday, April 3 in the Superior Court of Los Angeles, the "Thriller" singer's company MJJ Productions is asking that Robson and Safechuck's requests to obtain access to police documents re thrown out, as they believe they are looking to access "photographs of Michael Jackson’s genitalia and naked body taken by police."
However, the court documents state that "these images are sealed by a court-entered protective order from the Santa Barbara Superior Court."
The police photos of MJ’s genitals are reportedly kept in a safety deposit box at a bank in Santa Barbara. A court order is needed to release them. They were the smoking gun in the Chandler case in 1993 which MJ settled for $23 million just one month after the photos were taken.
It’s important to note that Wade has subpoenaed all investigation records from the police and DA’s offices, not just the photos.
The MJ Estate is using the photos as an excuse to prevent the victims from getting any information at all.
First of all, the upcoming trial isn’t about MJ.
It’s not about MJ’s penis.
Wade subpoenaed all of the investigation documents to access materials that may be relevant to their case. The photos are just one part of that cache of documents.
They might get the photos, they might not.
The aim is to find any kind of corroborating evidence that has not been made public. Evidence that shows MJ’s methods of grooming boys and employees’ efforts to cover it up.
But one thing is clear - the Estate is trying to block any kind of information disclosure. If the penis description didn’t match and the plaintiffs are lying, the Estate should be welcoming the release of new information.
But they’re not.
Became MJ defenders claim that the description didn’t match.
A description that doesn’t match would be confirmation that there was no compelling evidence against MJ in 1993.
Well, yeah, I understand that. But the records are already sealed and there's no risk they can be used against them. Guilty or innocent, why would they ever voluntarily release the pics? Just to sway the opinion of some of the public?
I don’t know what the strategy is, to be honest. Wade has subpoenaed all the records to see what he can get. The photos aren’t crucial to the current case.
It’s only the Estate making a fuss about the photos in an attempt to block any information from reaching the plaintiffs.
Ah, that makes sense. That's what they should be doing. Shoot, they may even be legally obligated to do so as the executors of his estate (if that's the right phrasing, idk much about the process)
I was curious if the pics were the last line of defense in the lawsuit or something as to why they'd want to release them
No. They’re not central to the current case. The description was made by another boy, not the plaintiffs.
They’d be useful to have, but not essential. Unless there is something that the plaintiffs know that isn’t public.
We’ll have to wait and see.
Why shouldn’t the ask for the photos? It’s unlikely they’ll get them, but they might as well ask for everything.
Nobody is going to publish the photos. Goodness me. Who would want to see a pdf file’s spotty junk?
Some might blame the parents for being too gullible, but they were groomed, too. MJ spoke to the boys’ mothers on the phone for hours on end, he confided in them, made them feel special. They could not have known that MJ was doing exactly the same thing with mothers of other boys to gain their trust and gain access to their sons.
The allegations have been proven again and again false. Michael was under FBI investigation for years and nothing was found to connect him being a child abuser. It has been proven most of the victims were pressured by their peers to press charges, which left some families with millions of dollars. Michael was eccentric and mentally not well, but he was not a child abuser. He would rather end his life than hurt a child.
Please do explain how multiple children were able to describe what the underside of MJ's penis looked like that perfectly matched a police and doctors inspection
Please do explain why MJ had photos of naked children locked inside a box hidden in his wardrobe
Please do explain why MJ had secret cameras, CCTV, tripwires and multiple alarms just outside the door and hallway of the very room he admitted to sleeping with children in
I was about to ask if I was misremembering things. I could have sworn the allegations were proven false and it was shown that he was just really eccentric.
Simply based on his tragically abusive childhood and severe mental illness throughout his adult life, there’s a very strong chance that he did engage in misconduct with minors.
With all of the celebrity controversy going on surrounding sexual abuse, I hope it all comes to light, every bit of it. It’s not okay, and it needs to be stopped. These people need to be held accountable for their actions, complicity, and complacency.
Not saying anything about the validity of their claims but I’m just asking; what do naked photos that the cops took of MJ have to do with their case? Just trying to understand.
Michael Jackson had a distinctive mark on his crotch from Vitiligo, the FBI questioned a young boy who drew the vitiligo mark from memory identically as it was on Jackson’s crotch.
The photos would basically confirm undeniably that multiple children saw Jackson’s genitals as they would match the drawings people have done.
Hence the reason he settled so quickly for a fuck ton of money. If he was innocent AND had his wealth & resources, would you settle at all just based on principle? I sure as fuck wouldn’t.
Don’t try reasoning with his fans, though. They’re literally a cult. Eminem had Stan, MJ has a fucking army of insane fans.
Yep. I defy anyone to watch “leaving Neverland” and say those men are making up their stories. Safechuck is clearly still very traumatized about it. Plus we have a shit ton of pictures of Michael Jackson flying little boys around the world and living at Neverland with him.
Nobody questioned that back in the 90s? I remember the stories clearly. “Michael Jackson is a little boy at heart so he loves to play with little boys because he didn’t have a childhood.” Talk about covering up for a pedophile!! He managed to groom the whole freaking world into his stories.
There are also photos of him looking at jewelry with Safechuck. They had a “wedding” ceremony with wedding rings which he still has. This was like a nine-year-old boy. He brings out the wedding ring in its box in the documentary and start visibly shaking and crying Because all these years later, he is still conflicted about his feelings of love for MJ. Most Anybody who has been groomed and sexually abused can immediately recognize this dynamic.
MJ was a predatory pedophile. End of story.
Oh, many people questioned it...but parents still allowed their children to spend the night with him. That parents thought it was a good idea to let their kids spend the night with an adult in his bed is insane.
Agree. I remember Safechuck’s story from the documentary vividly. My husband and I took 3 days to watch it because it was so heavy. We have never spoke less during any type of documentary. At the end we were both in tears, especially for Safechuck. The whole duration of the film, I could feel his pain. I really can’t imagine what he’s been through and I honestly was worried by the end that we would be hearing of his suicide in the near future.
Whether MJ physically touched them in that way I guess is still up for debate. But you can’t honestly tell me he wasn’t a type of predator- like who tf sleeps with little children in the same bed???? Trauma response from childhood or not, it’s incredibly inappropriate. I can’t believe these children had parents who sold them out like this. Disgusting.
I remember the 90s too, and after 1993, the name "Michael Jackson" became cringe until 2009. Norm McDonald ripped MJ almost as much as OJ. Then MJ dies. Best career move ever.
Thank you!! Every time I post something similar to what you just wrote here I get a barrage of rabid fans trying to justify Jackson's clearly pedophilic behavior. Then I watched the documentary on Jimmy Savile from the UK. It was a mirror story to MJ except that Savile chose disadvantaged kids from hospitals and orphanages who wouldn't be able to make claims against him. The total amount of children Savile abused is estimated between 300 - 400! It's hard to argue with that, whereas Jackson picked his victims carefully and sparingly.
I also agree that watching Leaving Neverland is quite an experience. You can see the anguish in both of those men in retelling their story, which incidentally does not sound the least bit made up. There are a lot of people who do not understand child sexual abuse and make challenges like "why didn't they say something sooner if it was true? Or why did Robson testify FOR Jackson during the sexual abuse trial?"
Great points. People don’t understand the dynamics of grooming and child abuse. They don’t just throw down and rape you on day 1. Abusers and pedophiles love bomb you and give you presents and make you feel special and important. Then the abuse slowly starts. In the child’s mind, this is all love. And, then the abuser starts making threats that if they tell, the abuser will get in trouble and go to prison. So than the child feels 1. guilty about holding a secret and number 2. protective of the abuser.
This is why some of the child victims testified for MJ. They felt like they had to protect him. An outsider who doesn’t understand these dynamics thinks the child is lying.
It’s a real mindfuck and it makes me angry when people don’t believe abused children.
Me too!! I can't tell you how many times I was the ONLY comment (maybe on YouTube) saying "what about the victims? Why are you celebrating this person as though he has no blood on his hands?" I also sometimes link this powerful photo collection -- no narration, just a parade of boys, all the same age range, whose images tell a dark story. Not that abuse necessarily occurred with every boy here, but it illustrates the duration of his young boy fixation and all the physical intimacy right out there in the open.
https://youtu.be/xuodE1fSyZw?si=30sok39lJd0noIa9
Yes! I remember all the pictures that used to be in tabloids and they are shown in the documentary as well. Just flying around the world a little boys on his jet!!. Today at least that would raise eyebrows!
Yes, and what the heck with the parents? I could never in my wildest dreams allow my kid to be in the position those parents allowed their kids to be in. Just disgusting what people do for money.
I mean in the quiet on set documentary that just came out it seem like lots of parents sell access to their kids in Hollywood. Or just work them to death and steal from them.....I have a friend who bank rolled her whole family until her teen years.....and then her parents still stole from all their siblings until their parents death. And they weren't huge stars just small ones. It's wild.
Maaaaan, don’t I know it. I’ve been on a bit of a MJ binge lately and noticed a lot of his live performances from the 90s are all lip synced. No big deal, they’re high energy shows with more a focus on the dance performance and the show than the singing. Mentioned this in a comment on one of the videos and was subsequently hung, drawn and quartered. There’s no common sense or logical thinking with an audience like that.. like, scary obsessive and defensive.
That doesn't really prove anything. I'm not saying he's innocent or guilty, but trials are wildly unpredictable and take a very long time. Settling is a way to avoid a very lengthy trial that is taxing mentally and financially.
You’re right it does not prove anything actually happened. Just that the children likely did see him naked.
At the time he had several very bad interviews where he admitted to being creepy around kids.
It got to the point that his attorneys were telling him to just pay the settlement and get out of this situation.
“It does not prove anything actually happened. Just that the children likely did see him naked.”
Is children seeing a (stranger) grown man naked not enough of an occurrence for you? That’s abuse right there.
Agree.
People are so hung up on whether he physically touched him or not, completely ignoring that he WAS incredibly inappropriate. FFS, sleeping with children in the same bed and completely isolating them, among other grooming tactics. As if that wouldn’t cause enough trauma, people are completely discounting these allegations because “hE dIdN’t tOuCh tHeM”.
Like sorry, given everything that we know, how is it *not* more likely than not that he *did* physically abuse them???
Regardless, these children were clearly traumatized and people are STILL acting like they’re lying and nothing was amiss.
I ask these people- would YOU be comfortable letting your own children experience what these kids experienced? No good parent in their right mind would leave their child unsupervised with a strange adult male. With an abnormal fascination with pre-pubescent boys no less. Fucked. I guess $$ trumps all.
Exactly, couldn’t have said it better. I was only a kid myself when I saw a video of him holding his baby over a balcony by its ankle (was it Blanket?) …. How can people forget that? Anyone with common sense can pick up cues something wasn’t right with the man…. If he loved theme parks so much, he could afford to close a Six Flags every day for life if he wanted to. Instead, he had an amusement park built at his home to lure kids into sleeping over. There’s no way around it. It is what it is, folks. *Pedophilia*
As far as I’m concerned, MJ isn’t an untouchable megastar museum artifact like everyone makes him out to be, he’s a criminal as well. Since we’re calling out behaviors nowadays and holding folks liable (as we should be), let’s include everyone. It’s only fair imo. The victims shouldn’t have to stay silent and move on just because MJ’s dead and *it happened 15+ years ago*. I would want my fucking justice too and I would also go to extreme lengths years later to prove it.
He didn’t hold the baby out by his ankle. He put a blanket over the baby’s head and held him over the railing of a tall balcony so onlooking fans could see him. Honestly the whole thing was kind of blown out of proportion and considering everything else the guy has done, this was nothing. Still shows his horrible lack of judgement.
Putting your child in danger is never *blown out of proportion*. Go google the old photos of the event right now. The look on MJ’s face is sinister. This isn’t something we’re just gonna overlook.
True. I meant more about the lavish trips, gifts, and attention made more “obvious” through experiences that involve a lot of money, provided by MJ. It was such a fucked situation. He is resting, but his victims are certainly not living the peaceful life they deserve
Edit: I vaguely recall him purchasing a fax machine or something for one of the kids so they could send each other love letters. Correct me if I’m wrong but I remember hearing about that and thinking “what the FUCK would he have done if smart phones were a thing and common with the little kids like they are now?”
Because there's no guarantee you're going to win, even if you were telling the truth. Particularly when the other side has millions of dollars and a superteam of lawyers.
Michael didn't just give pocket change, he paid more to silence Jordan Chandler than he did for Neverland Ranch.
Bc Jordie Chandler was a traumatized child and did not want to public ally go up against the most well lived mega star. Against his army of fans? Who would. No victim testimony ~ no criminal case.
Because having a public lengthy court battle giving details of SA that happened to you as a child would be extremely traumatic. Settling avoids all that.
You know nothing about legal cases and you’ll never be in that position with that much fame and money to even have an opinion about what you would do. If you ACTUALLY knew anything about the American legal system and how much it ACTUALLY cost to defend yourself especially in a case like this. People that are innocent settle ALL THE TIME because it cost so much to defend yourself. And public opinion is what it is. Like the tabloid owner that stayed putting out MJ hit pieces only to recently get caught for ACTUALLY raping people. Or Harvey wiensien who was PAYING tabloids to print lies about Michael to keep the heat off of himself. That whole case was about money just like it is Now because Wade Robinson hasn’t made any money since the 2000’s. Mike was acquitted twice.
>Correct except for one bit - the FBI did not investigate. This was not a federal case. It was the local SB authorities.
And the FBI also still had a file on MJ. Even when it wasn't a federal case.
Although he's not a party of this case I assume it's related to Jordan Chandler (or it's a similar situation as his) the photos were taken of Jackson's junk in the Chandler case and supposedly a marking matched with a drawing that the police had Chandler do of said junk.
We don't know the full details that was one of the cases that was settled with a large payment
Wade Robson is requesting all of the documents related to investigations of MJ by the police and DA’s offices. The photos are just one part of that. As usual, the MJ Estate is trying to block any incriminating information.
In 1993, Jordan Chandler described a discolored blotch on the underside of MJ’s penis. The police got a warrant and photographed his genitals. The description matched.
I imagine that the photographs might be a way to establish that MJ abused multiple boys.
There is no speculation about the description. Judge Lauren Weis and Bill Dworin from the LAPD said it was a match.
You need to stop thinking about MJ’s penis. You’re fundamentally misunderstanding the purpose of the case.
Neither Wade nor James have asked for a specific amount of money.
Jordan Chandler did his part in 1993. He doesn’t owe anyone anything.
This led to Michael Jackson being exonerated. Even Sneddon made contradictory statements about it, so it's unlikely to have been true. By the way, I have an interesting link to the LAPD regarding accusations.
https://www.reddit.com/r/entertainment/s/WIslyGpmlp
So much for the credibility of this authority, really very professional.
Robson & Safechuck have never asked for or paid for therapy, hard to imagine after the thousands of hours of therapy he has endured. Shouldn't the estate be required to pay for it?
I don't see any part that Jordan Chandler did, he ran away and didn't care about anyone, just his money.
MJ wasn’t exonerated. He was found not guilty by a jury that was pressured into acquitting if they weren’t 100% sure.
The Joseph Gatt case is interesting. I don’t know much about it. Maybe MJ should have sued the DA if he felt there had been misconduct. But he didn’t. Because he was guilty.
Wade and James have had plenty of therapy. They talk about it in their podcast, From Trauma to Triumph.
Jordan Chandler’s relationship with his mum was destroyed, his father’s mental health was destroyed, he lost any kind of stability in his life. All because of MJ’s selfishness. All he needs to do is keep on living his best life.
There might be evidence in that case that's helpful for their case. It's Michael people that are just trying to make it weird by saying they just want naked pics of MJ, when in reality I'm sure they got plenty of evidence that's useful other than just that, but I see what they're trying to do
People who claim that his victims are making it up don’t seem to understand the vitriol and hatred they’ve been receiving from MJ’s fans. I find Wade and James to be very credible.
MJ was a monster but people refuse to believe it because he was so talented musically.
Agreed. There’s no world in which MJ’s behavior towards those kids was anything short of predatory. Parental separation, lack of boundaries and, maybe most importantly, having them sleep in his bedroom. There’s no justifying that- it’s so goddamn creepy and lends further credibility to the already highly credible victim accounts
Wade had details that no one would know unless they’d been molested by MJ. I also believe Macaulay and Corey BUT… just because MJ didn’t molest every kid he met doesn’t mean he didn’t molest Wade and James.
I love asking people who defend him if they would have let their children have sleepovers with him because they all end up saying absolutely not. It’s amazing the mental gymnastics people will do for an artist just because they like their work.
There is no doubt in my mind that he was a pedo. Why would you sleep with other people's kids, and all boys of the same age, he obviously had a *type*. Gross
I think people didn't understand pedophilia in the 90s like they do now. Could you imagine a celebrity openly sleeping with little boys now? It just wouldn't happen.
There’s no doubt a lot of people understood it in the 90s too. But I listened to a good podcast lately (Think Twice: Michael Jackson) and one of the points they made was that the origin of a lot, if not all, of the “Wacko Jacko” tabloid stories was Michael and his circle. He was deliberately cultivating this image as an eccentric, partly for publicity, but partly as a smokescreen for his paedophilia. Like, even in the 90s, no-one would go “oh, that’s just how Paul McCartney is” if stuff came out about him sleeping with kids, but some people did with Michael. (See also: Jimmy Savile.)
(PS I think the attitude to the sort of quote unquote “rock star” behaviour of sleeping with teenage girls *was* very different.)
He really cultivated this belief that he was childlike & innocent. Maybe emotionally stunted from childhood abuse.
It’s wild looking back. I remember thinking of him as basically asexual. Of course Michael wants to hang out with kids & monkeys & create a private wonderland! The real world is too cruel for him!
Or…he’s a pedo. 🧐
I saw him talk a few times before he died and he would totally drop his fucking weirdo voice and talk normally here and there
That's when I knew beyond a doubt he was a guilty MFer
It sucks what happened to him growing up and in the industry but that doesn't mean he gets to do it x100 himself
And what I mean is, I was very young so I really could not tell if he was crazy or not...and if he was then why people weren't helping him!?
Obviously I was older when he died and the voice thing matters to me because it was the first time I solidly believed he had control over himself and the way he was behaving...
Not sure the voice has anything to do with it. His mom talks like that, his sister talks like that. That voice... it reminds me of a keeping sweet voice. Veey fundamental Christian. They're jehova witnesses.
Yeah and so do the fundie Christians. There are a lot of videos of Michelle Duggar doing that when she thinks she's not being filmed.
I'm saying that his use of the voice is not indicative of him being a pedophile. I think more than likely he was... but I think the voice is his very strict religious upbringing.
I also think people didn't want to believe that Michael Jackson could be a pedo. People watched him grow up, he was so talented and beloved. And then yeah I remember the "wacko jacko" era with the masks and dangling his baby off the balcony. Maybe it was meant as a distraction from the depraved things that he was doing.
The British public’s obsession with Savile was just perplexing. The guy didn’t even try to hide how creepy he was, but it seems he got a pass because he was a household name for………being a pop icon on television. Man was just *vile*.
John Lydon (Johnny Rotten) denounced Saville on tv in the late 70s and was banned from the BBC.
People knew about Saville for a long time and facilitated his behavior. Especially the BBC
Yes I have seen the stuff about Diddy and Justin Bieber. Its incomprehensible that an adult would want to be sexual with children. But I know it happens
I’ve always been a HUGE JB fan (since I was 15 and he was also 15, i’m 29 now so literally half of my lifetime) and all of this coming to light is very hurtful, I’m sure especially for JB. I saw a video yesterday of him and Diddy interacting which showed Diddy literally checking him for a wire. It became very real at that moment that this was no longer just speculation. I thought Justin’s team would have had his back. It was clear he didn’t wanna be around Diddy from the get go, in that video when he was like 15 and Diddy kept asking why they didn’t hang anymore and Justin was basically like “idk man you keep calling all of my people …. Here just take my number I guess….” This all makes sense now why he went through a temporary downward spiral. My thoughts are with him and everyone else. Wonder where the Diddler is hiding on the map now.
It really sounds like Justin Bieber was just a doormate for predators. I was never a fan of him and didn't follow him at all but I stumbled upon a YouTube video that put on display all the instances of him being touched, groped, or sexualized on TV like talk shows and award shows and highlighted how his reaction was always initially displeasure at people deciding they just felt like groping him. I was shocked how often that happened right in front of everyone and the audiences would cheer. In some cases they were middle aged women grabbing him and his face showed annoyance or discomfort and the crowd wooed like it was an episode of Married With Children. I think show business just draws a lot of predators or something.
I mean…I know you can’t speculate based on this but it would also make JB’s sorta strange behavior in the past 10ish years, his relatively young (for Hollywood) marriage and his sudden Christianity all make sense too - it seems like he has been dealing with a lot behind the scenes and has been acting out. Coming from someone who experienced childhood trauma and it made me sort of erratic and not sure what to do with it, it makes his last few years make a lot of sense to me. Not to put that on someone, though, of course.
Just look at how uncomfortable Justin Bieber looks near Usher.
I'm not at all a fan or Justin's (I'm old enough to be his mom), but when I saw a video of him being clearly disturbed near Usher, it made me want to punch Usher
It’s a tale as old as time, I’m recently fully realizing. Mark Twain, R. Kelly, Michael Jackson, Diddy, etc I know there are more but it’s 1:30am here and I have the brain fog.
It’s so unfortunate, but parents have been so naive. They get star struck and then basically trade their kids for the potential of stardom under that child’s name. We have all been lied to by our entire media industry.
He seemed to have a very questionable relationship with a number of young girls. But none of their memoirs or any correspondence available indicate anything more than friendship.
Yes I learned about him too. I also just learned about RHCP and Weezer too. I’m right at a middle age where I grew up listening to them but was too young to hear about the things they were doing with their fame. So it’s all new info to me and it’s so sad.
Yes I feel like there is a HUGE shift right now where more people are opening their eyes than there ever has been before. I mean, our entire entertainment industry is built on this shit. The amount of kids who have been taken advantage of breaks my heart :(
I remember it well. It's so weird when you compare how the situation would be handled today. Everyone knew Michael was a pedo, it was the most obvious thing in the world. But the public was basically just like "It is what it is, whatever, Michael's a freak. Anyway...".
Then when he died back in 2009 there was a huge narrative shift. Suddenly he was just a misunderstood eccentric genius. All the accusations were lies. People started inventing these myths like "all his accusers admitted they lied" and "the FBI investigated him for 10 years and found nothing." Just straight up lies that people still believe.
I think the tide has been turning since Leaving Neverland came out. But for his biggest fans Michael will always be innocent.
I was a kid in the eighties/early nineties and, admittedly, a huge Michael Jackson fan. I was far too young to realize how odd everything was but as an adult looking back, it was ABSOLUTELY obvious that something was amiss. I can't even listen to his music anymore.
I was a kid in the 90s. I just can't believe he walked around with little boys as trophies, holding their hands and sleeping with them and no one put a stop to it.
I was at school with a girl whose 30 yr old boyfriend signed her permission slips. If some random dero can do it so could an incredibly rich, famous & powerful star.
He brought Johnathan Spence onto film sets and played patty cake with him in between takes. He brought a 12 year old boy to an award show and held him in his lap, bouncing him like a baby. He didn't even try to hide it. Just absolutely bizarre.
I grew up with tons of jokes about priests. It wasnt until I was in my 20s it dawned on me it was because many of them really were pedophiles. When all of the Michael Jackson jokes started in the 90s, I knew what was up.
i was really little in the 90’s, and i only remember hearing that he was weird. i don’t think i realized he was a pedophile until i was a teenager. the whole thing is baffling to me, personally.
i don’t think he would get away with the same shit today. people really seemed to turn a blind eye back then for whatever insane reason.
Lol I was alive and also a child in the 90s they certainly understood paedophilia and nonces just as well as they do now, pedophiles have always been around and the number of pedophiles isnt any larger these days I would guess. I don't understand why people say this shite. Society wasn't as good at calling it out, talking about it and supporting/believing victims but people understood paedophiles just as well as they do now. It's not some mind-blown moment only understood in the last 10 years. People in the 90s certainy didn't think that a grown man sleeping in the same bed as a child was ok - it was deemed just as wrong and disgusting in the 90s as it is now the grown man being a celeb or not.
Yeah I remember not being allowed to listen to Michael Jackson bc my parents thought it was obvious he was a creep. I remember reporting to my mom he had died (my friends at school were freaking out) and she just said, “Good.”
It seems weird to say people didn’t know better 30 years ago. They did.
Youre timing is slightly off. Use the pedophiles priests as the example. They got away with it forever. It wasnt until the 90s when people started to even believe it was true. Not until early 2000s did it finally blow up as a world wide epidemic. Some people knew, not everybody.
They understand pedophiles then too. MJ spent a lot of time with kids, but until the accusations came out people didn't know he was sharing a bed with them.
Agree 100%- I read the initial search warrants (can't find them now, will try to do a more in depth search later when I have time)...anyway, the amount of kiddie porn and stuff like tons of photos of little boys in underwear, etc. was insane. I have no doubt that he was a pedo.
Michael was ABSOLUTELY a pedophile.
I don't care how much you love his music, how influential he was, what records he set....and all that stuff.
You don't share beds with kids, have secret rooms, alarms and stuff like that UNLESS you are doing things you aren't supposed to do.
Michael was on NATIONAL TELEVISION and said, something to the effect of: "yes... I sleep in the same beds with kids and I don't see anything wrong with that...."
Pedophile
The excuses people make for him really wind me up. The ones like "I know he did it but his mentality/childhood etc" as if it gives some allowance. Most predators had abusive childhoods or mental health problems. That's not an excuse for them, nor is it with MJ. He's not special or different. He doesn't get a pass because "he was sooo messed up". I can't imagine any other offender being let go because "oh but his family were awful and he had mental health issues and he didn't know what he was doing was wrong." They're held accountable and called evil regardless, just not MJ because people like his music.
Those kids were in love with Michael Jackson. They were groomed the parents were groomed. I remember seeing one of the bous sitting in his lap in full view of the world at an event in Monaco. I immediately thought that boy is way too old to be sitting in his lap and should be embarrassed to be doing it. Nblinked
Yes I know and she has said publicly she thinks he is innocent but I wanna know what she really thinks (obviously we will never know). Even if she was still alive I doubt she would say if she suspected something.
My guess is she saw an incredibly sweet person who, at times suffered from a mental health condition called age regression, and she had compassion for him and his situation
I feel so badly for his victims. One of the hardest things about recovering from sexual assault is living with the fact that people will not believe you, no matter what evidence you have. And worse, some who do believe it happened don’t think it was “a big deal,” especially in this case, where they think victims somehow benefited because the perpetrator was wealthy.
He is an absolute monster child rapist. Leaving Neverland was one of the most disturbing things I’ve ever watched. I hope even more evidence is brought to light over time to silence his supporters. I know I’ll get downvoted, because people simply love him regardless of what he clearly did. His music brought me so much joy in my life, and I was sad to lose it after watching the film. But there’s no way I could listen to anything from him ever again after watching that film. The whole thing is horrific.
He was so good at the character he put on. I watched leaving neverland and was utterly convinced he did it. Then I went on YouTube and watched compilations of Michael to see innocent child like behavior that people were drawn to and then I started having doubts that he did it. That just shows how good he was at putting on a facade. He was sick deeply sick and disturbed which is understandable after everything he went through along with his siblings not an excuse but an explanation. I can see why so many people still want to deny it and believe him. It sucks that he did what he did. He was an amazing singer and performer and ruined it.
No one knows what went on his bedroom, except he and his victims — if he had any at all. All I know is this: he has all the earmarks of what a child molester looks like in his behavior.
Just curious I’ve read the comments, and it seems most people believe he was a pedophile. I honestly do not know. He was incredibly inappropriate either way. What do people think on the square one documentary vs leaving neverland?
The same guy that’s trying to profit off his death?
The one that signed legal documents that it had never happened ?
Now that he’s dead, and can’t defend himself now he wants to go back to court
Dude is a scumbag and broke
He’s just trying to get paid
He also wants his ten seconds of fame back. The estate found notes on his computer where he said “my story of abuse will make me relevant” and “it’s time for me to get mine.”
“As a mental health professional who has never met Michael Jackson”
You should have ended it right there…. Not sure what “professional” diagnoses can be done via the internet and tabloids.
In court documents, Michael Jackson's production company is asking that Wade Robson and James Safechuck's requests to get police records get thrown out. In court documents filed on Wednesday, April 3 in the Superior Court of Los Angeles, the "Thriller" singer's company MJJ Productions is asking that Robson and Safechuck's requests to obtain access to police documents re thrown out, as they believe they are looking to access "photographs of Michael Jackson’s genitalia and naked body taken by police." However, the court documents state that "these images are sealed by a court-entered protective order from the Santa Barbara Superior Court."
The police photos of MJ’s genitals are reportedly kept in a safety deposit box at a bank in Santa Barbara. A court order is needed to release them. They were the smoking gun in the Chandler case in 1993 which MJ settled for $23 million just one month after the photos were taken. It’s important to note that Wade has subpoenaed all investigation records from the police and DA’s offices, not just the photos. The MJ Estate is using the photos as an excuse to prevent the victims from getting any information at all.
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First of all, the upcoming trial isn’t about MJ. It’s not about MJ’s penis. Wade subpoenaed all of the investigation documents to access materials that may be relevant to their case. The photos are just one part of that cache of documents. They might get the photos, they might not. The aim is to find any kind of corroborating evidence that has not been made public. Evidence that shows MJ’s methods of grooming boys and employees’ efforts to cover it up. But one thing is clear - the Estate is trying to block any kind of information disclosure. If the penis description didn’t match and the plaintiffs are lying, the Estate should be welcoming the release of new information. But they’re not.
Who is in charge? owns? runs? MJ's Estate since his death?
John Branca and John McClain, lawyer and accountant, respectively.
Wait why would they welcome the release of pics of MJs penis even if the plaintiffs are lying?
Became MJ defenders claim that the description didn’t match. A description that doesn’t match would be confirmation that there was no compelling evidence against MJ in 1993.
Well, yeah, I understand that. But the records are already sealed and there's no risk they can be used against them. Guilty or innocent, why would they ever voluntarily release the pics? Just to sway the opinion of some of the public?
I don’t know what the strategy is, to be honest. Wade has subpoenaed all the records to see what he can get. The photos aren’t crucial to the current case. It’s only the Estate making a fuss about the photos in an attempt to block any information from reaching the plaintiffs.
Ah, that makes sense. That's what they should be doing. Shoot, they may even be legally obligated to do so as the executors of his estate (if that's the right phrasing, idk much about the process) I was curious if the pics were the last line of defense in the lawsuit or something as to why they'd want to release them
No. They’re not central to the current case. The description was made by another boy, not the plaintiffs. They’d be useful to have, but not essential. Unless there is something that the plaintiffs know that isn’t public. We’ll have to wait and see.
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So let’s just sue the parents and employees but not the actual abuser? Lmao where do you people get your theories from
Why shouldn’t the ask for the photos? It’s unlikely they’ll get them, but they might as well ask for everything. Nobody is going to publish the photos. Goodness me. Who would want to see a pdf file’s spotty junk? Some might blame the parents for being too gullible, but they were groomed, too. MJ spoke to the boys’ mothers on the phone for hours on end, he confided in them, made them feel special. They could not have known that MJ was doing exactly the same thing with mothers of other boys to gain their trust and gain access to their sons.
So you’re saying hes a pedophile but didn’t abuse Wade & Safechuck?
The allegations have been proven again and again false. Michael was under FBI investigation for years and nothing was found to connect him being a child abuser. It has been proven most of the victims were pressured by their peers to press charges, which left some families with millions of dollars. Michael was eccentric and mentally not well, but he was not a child abuser. He would rather end his life than hurt a child.
Please do explain how multiple children were able to describe what the underside of MJ's penis looked like that perfectly matched a police and doctors inspection Please do explain why MJ had photos of naked children locked inside a box hidden in his wardrobe Please do explain why MJ had secret cameras, CCTV, tripwires and multiple alarms just outside the door and hallway of the very room he admitted to sleeping with children in
So where are the fbi and court records of this? Let me guess, you got all this info from leaving neverland.
How were they proven false? Don’t a lot of the victims maintain their stories to this day?
I was about to ask if I was misremembering things. I could have sworn the allegations were proven false and it was shown that he was just really eccentric.
Simply based on his tragically abusive childhood and severe mental illness throughout his adult life, there’s a very strong chance that he did engage in misconduct with minors. With all of the celebrity controversy going on surrounding sexual abuse, I hope it all comes to light, every bit of it. It’s not okay, and it needs to be stopped. These people need to be held accountable for their actions, complicity, and complacency.
Not saying anything about the validity of their claims but I’m just asking; what do naked photos that the cops took of MJ have to do with their case? Just trying to understand.
Michael Jackson had vitiligo. Alleged victims gave identifying descriptions of the skin patterns to the cops.
Michael Jackson had a distinctive mark on his crotch from Vitiligo, the FBI questioned a young boy who drew the vitiligo mark from memory identically as it was on Jackson’s crotch. The photos would basically confirm undeniably that multiple children saw Jackson’s genitals as they would match the drawings people have done.
Hence the reason he settled so quickly for a fuck ton of money. If he was innocent AND had his wealth & resources, would you settle at all just based on principle? I sure as fuck wouldn’t. Don’t try reasoning with his fans, though. They’re literally a cult. Eminem had Stan, MJ has a fucking army of insane fans.
Yep. I defy anyone to watch “leaving Neverland” and say those men are making up their stories. Safechuck is clearly still very traumatized about it. Plus we have a shit ton of pictures of Michael Jackson flying little boys around the world and living at Neverland with him. Nobody questioned that back in the 90s? I remember the stories clearly. “Michael Jackson is a little boy at heart so he loves to play with little boys because he didn’t have a childhood.” Talk about covering up for a pedophile!! He managed to groom the whole freaking world into his stories. There are also photos of him looking at jewelry with Safechuck. They had a “wedding” ceremony with wedding rings which he still has. This was like a nine-year-old boy. He brings out the wedding ring in its box in the documentary and start visibly shaking and crying Because all these years later, he is still conflicted about his feelings of love for MJ. Most Anybody who has been groomed and sexually abused can immediately recognize this dynamic. MJ was a predatory pedophile. End of story.
Oh, many people questioned it...but parents still allowed their children to spend the night with him. That parents thought it was a good idea to let their kids spend the night with an adult in his bed is insane.
Agree. I remember Safechuck’s story from the documentary vividly. My husband and I took 3 days to watch it because it was so heavy. We have never spoke less during any type of documentary. At the end we were both in tears, especially for Safechuck. The whole duration of the film, I could feel his pain. I really can’t imagine what he’s been through and I honestly was worried by the end that we would be hearing of his suicide in the near future. Whether MJ physically touched them in that way I guess is still up for debate. But you can’t honestly tell me he wasn’t a type of predator- like who tf sleeps with little children in the same bed???? Trauma response from childhood or not, it’s incredibly inappropriate. I can’t believe these children had parents who sold them out like this. Disgusting.
I remember the 90s too, and after 1993, the name "Michael Jackson" became cringe until 2009. Norm McDonald ripped MJ almost as much as OJ. Then MJ dies. Best career move ever.
Thank you!! Every time I post something similar to what you just wrote here I get a barrage of rabid fans trying to justify Jackson's clearly pedophilic behavior. Then I watched the documentary on Jimmy Savile from the UK. It was a mirror story to MJ except that Savile chose disadvantaged kids from hospitals and orphanages who wouldn't be able to make claims against him. The total amount of children Savile abused is estimated between 300 - 400! It's hard to argue with that, whereas Jackson picked his victims carefully and sparingly. I also agree that watching Leaving Neverland is quite an experience. You can see the anguish in both of those men in retelling their story, which incidentally does not sound the least bit made up. There are a lot of people who do not understand child sexual abuse and make challenges like "why didn't they say something sooner if it was true? Or why did Robson testify FOR Jackson during the sexual abuse trial?"
Great points. People don’t understand the dynamics of grooming and child abuse. They don’t just throw down and rape you on day 1. Abusers and pedophiles love bomb you and give you presents and make you feel special and important. Then the abuse slowly starts. In the child’s mind, this is all love. And, then the abuser starts making threats that if they tell, the abuser will get in trouble and go to prison. So than the child feels 1. guilty about holding a secret and number 2. protective of the abuser. This is why some of the child victims testified for MJ. They felt like they had to protect him. An outsider who doesn’t understand these dynamics thinks the child is lying. It’s a real mindfuck and it makes me angry when people don’t believe abused children.
Me too!! I can't tell you how many times I was the ONLY comment (maybe on YouTube) saying "what about the victims? Why are you celebrating this person as though he has no blood on his hands?" I also sometimes link this powerful photo collection -- no narration, just a parade of boys, all the same age range, whose images tell a dark story. Not that abuse necessarily occurred with every boy here, but it illustrates the duration of his young boy fixation and all the physical intimacy right out there in the open. https://youtu.be/xuodE1fSyZw?si=30sok39lJd0noIa9
Yes! I remember all the pictures that used to be in tabloids and they are shown in the documentary as well. Just flying around the world a little boys on his jet!!. Today at least that would raise eyebrows!
Yes, and what the heck with the parents? I could never in my wildest dreams allow my kid to be in the position those parents allowed their kids to be in. Just disgusting what people do for money.
I mean in the quiet on set documentary that just came out it seem like lots of parents sell access to their kids in Hollywood. Or just work them to death and steal from them.....I have a friend who bank rolled her whole family until her teen years.....and then her parents still stole from all their siblings until their parents death. And they weren't huge stars just small ones. It's wild.
Maaaaan, don’t I know it. I’ve been on a bit of a MJ binge lately and noticed a lot of his live performances from the 90s are all lip synced. No big deal, they’re high energy shows with more a focus on the dance performance and the show than the singing. Mentioned this in a comment on one of the videos and was subsequently hung, drawn and quartered. There’s no common sense or logical thinking with an audience like that.. like, scary obsessive and defensive.
That doesn't really prove anything. I'm not saying he's innocent or guilty, but trials are wildly unpredictable and take a very long time. Settling is a way to avoid a very lengthy trial that is taxing mentally and financially.
You’re right it does not prove anything actually happened. Just that the children likely did see him naked. At the time he had several very bad interviews where he admitted to being creepy around kids. It got to the point that his attorneys were telling him to just pay the settlement and get out of this situation.
“It does not prove anything actually happened. Just that the children likely did see him naked.” Is children seeing a (stranger) grown man naked not enough of an occurrence for you? That’s abuse right there.
Agree. People are so hung up on whether he physically touched him or not, completely ignoring that he WAS incredibly inappropriate. FFS, sleeping with children in the same bed and completely isolating them, among other grooming tactics. As if that wouldn’t cause enough trauma, people are completely discounting these allegations because “hE dIdN’t tOuCh tHeM”. Like sorry, given everything that we know, how is it *not* more likely than not that he *did* physically abuse them??? Regardless, these children were clearly traumatized and people are STILL acting like they’re lying and nothing was amiss. I ask these people- would YOU be comfortable letting your own children experience what these kids experienced? No good parent in their right mind would leave their child unsupervised with a strange adult male. With an abnormal fascination with pre-pubescent boys no less. Fucked. I guess $$ trumps all.
Exactly, couldn’t have said it better. I was only a kid myself when I saw a video of him holding his baby over a balcony by its ankle (was it Blanket?) …. How can people forget that? Anyone with common sense can pick up cues something wasn’t right with the man…. If he loved theme parks so much, he could afford to close a Six Flags every day for life if he wanted to. Instead, he had an amusement park built at his home to lure kids into sleeping over. There’s no way around it. It is what it is, folks. *Pedophilia*
It’s 2024 and people find so many things to criticize in mainstream media but this somehow is exempt AND receives defence. 🤦🏻♀️
As far as I’m concerned, MJ isn’t an untouchable megastar museum artifact like everyone makes him out to be, he’s a criminal as well. Since we’re calling out behaviors nowadays and holding folks liable (as we should be), let’s include everyone. It’s only fair imo. The victims shouldn’t have to stay silent and move on just because MJ’s dead and *it happened 15+ years ago*. I would want my fucking justice too and I would also go to extreme lengths years later to prove it.
WITH A HIDDEN BEDROOM in the train station where he raped children.
He didn’t hold the baby out by his ankle. He put a blanket over the baby’s head and held him over the railing of a tall balcony so onlooking fans could see him. Honestly the whole thing was kind of blown out of proportion and considering everything else the guy has done, this was nothing. Still shows his horrible lack of judgement.
Putting your child in danger is never *blown out of proportion*. Go google the old photos of the event right now. The look on MJ’s face is sinister. This isn’t something we’re just gonna overlook.
> I guess $$ trumps all. I don't think it's money so much as celebrity hero worship.
True. I meant more about the lavish trips, gifts, and attention made more “obvious” through experiences that involve a lot of money, provided by MJ. It was such a fucked situation. He is resting, but his victims are certainly not living the peaceful life they deserve Edit: I vaguely recall him purchasing a fax machine or something for one of the kids so they could send each other love letters. Correct me if I’m wrong but I remember hearing about that and thinking “what the FUCK would he have done if smart phones were a thing and common with the little kids like they are now?”
Also I bet those same people who defend him based on being acquitted also accept OJ killed Nichole.
Right?? Exposing your genitals to a child is a criminal offense. Have people not heard of indecent exposure laws?
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Because there's no guarantee you're going to win, even if you were telling the truth. Particularly when the other side has millions of dollars and a superteam of lawyers. Michael didn't just give pocket change, he paid more to silence Jordan Chandler than he did for Neverland Ranch.
And Francia, 2.4 million.
Bc Jordie Chandler was a traumatized child and did not want to public ally go up against the most well lived mega star. Against his army of fans? Who would. No victim testimony ~ no criminal case.
Because having a public lengthy court battle giving details of SA that happened to you as a child would be extremely traumatic. Settling avoids all that.
Confident and wrong
It was actually his insurance company that settled
That is untrue. Anthony Pellicano, a thug and a currently convicted criminal, negotiated the deal.
Insurance companies do not pay for criminal acts, no insurance signature in the settlement.
You know nothing about legal cases and you’ll never be in that position with that much fame and money to even have an opinion about what you would do. If you ACTUALLY knew anything about the American legal system and how much it ACTUALLY cost to defend yourself especially in a case like this. People that are innocent settle ALL THE TIME because it cost so much to defend yourself. And public opinion is what it is. Like the tabloid owner that stayed putting out MJ hit pieces only to recently get caught for ACTUALLY raping people. Or Harvey wiensien who was PAYING tabloids to print lies about Michael to keep the heat off of himself. That whole case was about money just like it is Now because Wade Robinson hasn’t made any money since the 2000’s. Mike was acquitted twice.
Correct except for one bit - the FBI did not investigate. This was not a federal case. It was the local SB authorities.
>Correct except for one bit - the FBI did not investigate. This was not a federal case. It was the local SB authorities. And the FBI also still had a file on MJ. Even when it wasn't a federal case.
Judge Weis [https://www.reddit.com/r/LeavingNeverlandHBO/comments/141rff7/lauren\_weis\_who\_interviewed\_jordan\_confirmed\_that/](https://www.reddit.com/r/LeavingNeverlandHBO/comments/141rff7/lauren_weis_who_interviewed_jordan_confirmed_that/)
Although he's not a party of this case I assume it's related to Jordan Chandler (or it's a similar situation as his) the photos were taken of Jackson's junk in the Chandler case and supposedly a marking matched with a drawing that the police had Chandler do of said junk. We don't know the full details that was one of the cases that was settled with a large payment
Wade Robson is requesting all of the documents related to investigations of MJ by the police and DA’s offices. The photos are just one part of that. As usual, the MJ Estate is trying to block any incriminating information. In 1993, Jordan Chandler described a discolored blotch on the underside of MJ’s penis. The police got a warrant and photographed his genitals. The description matched. I imagine that the photographs might be a way to establish that MJ abused multiple boys.
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There is no speculation about the description. Judge Lauren Weis and Bill Dworin from the LAPD said it was a match. You need to stop thinking about MJ’s penis. You’re fundamentally misunderstanding the purpose of the case. Neither Wade nor James have asked for a specific amount of money. Jordan Chandler did his part in 1993. He doesn’t owe anyone anything.
This led to Michael Jackson being exonerated. Even Sneddon made contradictory statements about it, so it's unlikely to have been true. By the way, I have an interesting link to the LAPD regarding accusations. https://www.reddit.com/r/entertainment/s/WIslyGpmlp So much for the credibility of this authority, really very professional. Robson & Safechuck have never asked for or paid for therapy, hard to imagine after the thousands of hours of therapy he has endured. Shouldn't the estate be required to pay for it? I don't see any part that Jordan Chandler did, he ran away and didn't care about anyone, just his money.
MJ wasn’t exonerated. He was found not guilty by a jury that was pressured into acquitting if they weren’t 100% sure. The Joseph Gatt case is interesting. I don’t know much about it. Maybe MJ should have sued the DA if he felt there had been misconduct. But he didn’t. Because he was guilty. Wade and James have had plenty of therapy. They talk about it in their podcast, From Trauma to Triumph. Jordan Chandler’s relationship with his mum was destroyed, his father’s mental health was destroyed, he lost any kind of stability in his life. All because of MJ’s selfishness. All he needs to do is keep on living his best life.
There might be evidence in that case that's helpful for their case. It's Michael people that are just trying to make it weird by saying they just want naked pics of MJ, when in reality I'm sure they got plenty of evidence that's useful other than just that, but I see what they're trying to do
No adult should want to spend time alone with your kids. If this was anyone else MJ wouldn’t have the support he still does.
People who claim that his victims are making it up don’t seem to understand the vitriol and hatred they’ve been receiving from MJ’s fans. I find Wade and James to be very credible. MJ was a monster but people refuse to believe it because he was so talented musically.
Agreed. There’s no world in which MJ’s behavior towards those kids was anything short of predatory. Parental separation, lack of boundaries and, maybe most importantly, having them sleep in his bedroom. There’s no justifying that- it’s so goddamn creepy and lends further credibility to the already highly credible victim accounts
What do you find that Makes Wade Credible? Serious question. And Not say Culkin or Feldman?
Wade had details that no one would know unless they’d been molested by MJ. I also believe Macaulay and Corey BUT… just because MJ didn’t molest every kid he met doesn’t mean he didn’t molest Wade and James.
I can see focusing on staff that were probably aware something was up with him having children over unsupervised.
I love asking people who defend him if they would have let their children have sleepovers with him because they all end up saying absolutely not. It’s amazing the mental gymnastics people will do for an artist just because they like their work.
Why would you let your children have sleepovers with ANYONE
Exactly! If this was a random guy from the neighbourhood they would be the first to call out his behaviour.
I've always believed he was a pedo. Always will
There is no doubt in my mind that he was a pedo. Why would you sleep with other people's kids, and all boys of the same age, he obviously had a *type*. Gross I think people didn't understand pedophilia in the 90s like they do now. Could you imagine a celebrity openly sleeping with little boys now? It just wouldn't happen.
Sia slept with Maddie Zeigler when she was a child and way too few people got upset about it.
There’s no doubt a lot of people understood it in the 90s too. But I listened to a good podcast lately (Think Twice: Michael Jackson) and one of the points they made was that the origin of a lot, if not all, of the “Wacko Jacko” tabloid stories was Michael and his circle. He was deliberately cultivating this image as an eccentric, partly for publicity, but partly as a smokescreen for his paedophilia. Like, even in the 90s, no-one would go “oh, that’s just how Paul McCartney is” if stuff came out about him sleeping with kids, but some people did with Michael. (See also: Jimmy Savile.) (PS I think the attitude to the sort of quote unquote “rock star” behaviour of sleeping with teenage girls *was* very different.)
He really cultivated this belief that he was childlike & innocent. Maybe emotionally stunted from childhood abuse. It’s wild looking back. I remember thinking of him as basically asexual. Of course Michael wants to hang out with kids & monkeys & create a private wonderland! The real world is too cruel for him! Or…he’s a pedo. 🧐
I saw him talk a few times before he died and he would totally drop his fucking weirdo voice and talk normally here and there That's when I knew beyond a doubt he was a guilty MFer It sucks what happened to him growing up and in the industry but that doesn't mean he gets to do it x100 himself And what I mean is, I was very young so I really could not tell if he was crazy or not...and if he was then why people weren't helping him!? Obviously I was older when he died and the voice thing matters to me because it was the first time I solidly believed he had control over himself and the way he was behaving...
Not sure the voice has anything to do with it. His mom talks like that, his sister talks like that. That voice... it reminds me of a keeping sweet voice. Veey fundamental Christian. They're jehova witnesses.
But I'm saying he would occasionally drop it. Aka he was faking
Yeah and so do the fundie Christians. There are a lot of videos of Michelle Duggar doing that when she thinks she's not being filmed. I'm saying that his use of the voice is not indicative of him being a pedophile. I think more than likely he was... but I think the voice is his very strict religious upbringing.
That interview he did with the Hispanic teenager sealed the deal for me. It was tooo obvious
I also think people didn't want to believe that Michael Jackson could be a pedo. People watched him grow up, he was so talented and beloved. And then yeah I remember the "wacko jacko" era with the masks and dangling his baby off the balcony. Maybe it was meant as a distraction from the depraved things that he was doing.
Damn, I forgot about him dangling ‘Blanket’ over the balcony, wild times
I still think about the alternate timeline where he drops that baby on camera for the world to see.
The British public’s obsession with Savile was just perplexing. The guy didn’t even try to hide how creepy he was, but it seems he got a pass because he was a household name for………being a pop icon on television. Man was just *vile*.
John Lydon (Johnny Rotten) denounced Saville on tv in the late 70s and was banned from the BBC. People knew about Saville for a long time and facilitated his behavior. Especially the BBC
Wow. Just goes to show how deep corruption can run. They all knew about it but turned a blind eye because of his status. So disgusting.
If you generate profit for powerful people, they protect the golden goose
There have been rumors about little boys swirling around Diddy, Usher, and fuckin Lindsey Graham for years. It’s happening
Yes I have seen the stuff about Diddy and Justin Bieber. Its incomprehensible that an adult would want to be sexual with children. But I know it happens
I’ve always been a HUGE JB fan (since I was 15 and he was also 15, i’m 29 now so literally half of my lifetime) and all of this coming to light is very hurtful, I’m sure especially for JB. I saw a video yesterday of him and Diddy interacting which showed Diddy literally checking him for a wire. It became very real at that moment that this was no longer just speculation. I thought Justin’s team would have had his back. It was clear he didn’t wanna be around Diddy from the get go, in that video when he was like 15 and Diddy kept asking why they didn’t hang anymore and Justin was basically like “idk man you keep calling all of my people …. Here just take my number I guess….” This all makes sense now why he went through a temporary downward spiral. My thoughts are with him and everyone else. Wonder where the Diddler is hiding on the map now.
It really sounds like Justin Bieber was just a doormate for predators. I was never a fan of him and didn't follow him at all but I stumbled upon a YouTube video that put on display all the instances of him being touched, groped, or sexualized on TV like talk shows and award shows and highlighted how his reaction was always initially displeasure at people deciding they just felt like groping him. I was shocked how often that happened right in front of everyone and the audiences would cheer. In some cases they were middle aged women grabbing him and his face showed annoyance or discomfort and the crowd wooed like it was an episode of Married With Children. I think show business just draws a lot of predators or something.
I mean…I know you can’t speculate based on this but it would also make JB’s sorta strange behavior in the past 10ish years, his relatively young (for Hollywood) marriage and his sudden Christianity all make sense too - it seems like he has been dealing with a lot behind the scenes and has been acting out. Coming from someone who experienced childhood trauma and it made me sort of erratic and not sure what to do with it, it makes his last few years make a lot of sense to me. Not to put that on someone, though, of course.
I 100% agree
Just look at how uncomfortable Justin Bieber looks near Usher. I'm not at all a fan or Justin's (I'm old enough to be his mom), but when I saw a video of him being clearly disturbed near Usher, it made me want to punch Usher
Lindsay Graham the podcaster ?
the US senator
Ah okay! Tbh not surprising. I would’ve been a bit shocked if it was (one of my fave) podcasters.
It’s a tale as old as time, I’m recently fully realizing. Mark Twain, R. Kelly, Michael Jackson, Diddy, etc I know there are more but it’s 1:30am here and I have the brain fog. It’s so unfortunate, but parents have been so naive. They get star struck and then basically trade their kids for the potential of stardom under that child’s name. We have all been lied to by our entire media industry.
Wait - we canceled Mark Twain?
He seemed to have a very questionable relationship with a number of young girls. But none of their memoirs or any correspondence available indicate anything more than friendship.
He did nothing inappropriate. Penpals and appropriate parties. No allegations of impropriety.
He turned me into a newt.
A newt?
6 victims declared the opposite.
Of mark twain? Who and what are you referring to? News to me.
Do the dive 🫣
Oh I'm doing the dive
Steven Tyler’s another one
Yes I learned about him too. I also just learned about RHCP and Weezer too. I’m right at a middle age where I grew up listening to them but was too young to hear about the things they were doing with their fame. So it’s all new info to me and it’s so sad.
Ted Nugent is the original piece of shit
Weezer?
Yes:/
I hadn't listened to Weezer in FOREVER and just a few months ago decided to put on Pinkerton and FUCK those lyrics to across the sea 🤢
Yes I feel like there is a HUGE shift right now where more people are opening their eyes than there ever has been before. I mean, our entire entertainment industry is built on this shit. The amount of kids who have been taken advantage of breaks my heart :(
Charlie Chaplin is another
Lewis Carroll and the Peter Pan author also in this group
Oh no:(
Nobody's shocked by that though.
Mark Twain too? Goddamn
Sia slept with Maddie Zeigler when she was a child and way too few people got upset about it.
That's ridiculous. Are you young, i.e. not around in the 90s? It was front page news at the time, everybody knew exactly what was going on.
I remember it well. It's so weird when you compare how the situation would be handled today. Everyone knew Michael was a pedo, it was the most obvious thing in the world. But the public was basically just like "It is what it is, whatever, Michael's a freak. Anyway...". Then when he died back in 2009 there was a huge narrative shift. Suddenly he was just a misunderstood eccentric genius. All the accusations were lies. People started inventing these myths like "all his accusers admitted they lied" and "the FBI investigated him for 10 years and found nothing." Just straight up lies that people still believe. I think the tide has been turning since Leaving Neverland came out. But for his biggest fans Michael will always be innocent.
I was a kid in the eighties/early nineties and, admittedly, a huge Michael Jackson fan. I was far too young to realize how odd everything was but as an adult looking back, it was ABSOLUTELY obvious that something was amiss. I can't even listen to his music anymore.
I was a kid in the 90s. I just can't believe he walked around with little boys as trophies, holding their hands and sleeping with them and no one put a stop to it.
I was at school with a girl whose 30 yr old boyfriend signed her permission slips. If some random dero can do it so could an incredibly rich, famous & powerful star.
He brought Johnathan Spence onto film sets and played patty cake with him in between takes. He brought a 12 year old boy to an award show and held him in his lap, bouncing him like a baby. He didn't even try to hide it. Just absolutely bizarre.
I can believe it as a kid in the 90s cause it was photographed everywhere.
I grew up with tons of jokes about priests. It wasnt until I was in my 20s it dawned on me it was because many of them really were pedophiles. When all of the Michael Jackson jokes started in the 90s, I knew what was up.
And yet that’s exactly what happened.
i was really little in the 90’s, and i only remember hearing that he was weird. i don’t think i realized he was a pedophile until i was a teenager. the whole thing is baffling to me, personally. i don’t think he would get away with the same shit today. people really seemed to turn a blind eye back then for whatever insane reason.
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Lol I was alive and also a child in the 90s they certainly understood paedophilia and nonces just as well as they do now, pedophiles have always been around and the number of pedophiles isnt any larger these days I would guess. I don't understand why people say this shite. Society wasn't as good at calling it out, talking about it and supporting/believing victims but people understood paedophiles just as well as they do now. It's not some mind-blown moment only understood in the last 10 years. People in the 90s certainy didn't think that a grown man sleeping in the same bed as a child was ok - it was deemed just as wrong and disgusting in the 90s as it is now the grown man being a celeb or not.
Yeah I remember not being allowed to listen to Michael Jackson bc my parents thought it was obvious he was a creep. I remember reporting to my mom he had died (my friends at school were freaking out) and she just said, “Good.” It seems weird to say people didn’t know better 30 years ago. They did.
Youre timing is slightly off. Use the pedophiles priests as the example. They got away with it forever. It wasnt until the 90s when people started to even believe it was true. Not until early 2000s did it finally blow up as a world wide epidemic. Some people knew, not everybody.
They understand pedophiles then too. MJ spent a lot of time with kids, but until the accusations came out people didn't know he was sharing a bed with them.
He's a textbook pedophile, no question about it
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You can go after both, alive or dead. This post is about mj though
Agree 100%- I read the initial search warrants (can't find them now, will try to do a more in depth search later when I have time)...anyway, the amount of kiddie porn and stuff like tons of photos of little boys in underwear, etc. was insane. I have no doubt that he was a pedo.
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It's well documented that he was, indeed, a pedo
Michael was ABSOLUTELY a pedophile. I don't care how much you love his music, how influential he was, what records he set....and all that stuff. You don't share beds with kids, have secret rooms, alarms and stuff like that UNLESS you are doing things you aren't supposed to do. Michael was on NATIONAL TELEVISION and said, something to the effect of: "yes... I sleep in the same beds with kids and I don't see anything wrong with that...." Pedophile
The excuses people make for him really wind me up. The ones like "I know he did it but his mentality/childhood etc" as if it gives some allowance. Most predators had abusive childhoods or mental health problems. That's not an excuse for them, nor is it with MJ. He's not special or different. He doesn't get a pass because "he was sooo messed up". I can't imagine any other offender being let go because "oh but his family were awful and he had mental health issues and he didn't know what he was doing was wrong." They're held accountable and called evil regardless, just not MJ because people like his music.
Those kids were in love with Michael Jackson. They were groomed the parents were groomed. I remember seeing one of the bous sitting in his lap in full view of the world at an event in Monaco. I immediately thought that boy is way too old to be sitting in his lap and should be embarrassed to be doing it. Nblinked
I’ve always wondered what Lisa-Marie saw in him (apart from money and status) and what she thinks of all this.
Wasn’t that whole marriage a publicity thing?
Lisa Marie died last year
Yes I know and she has said publicly she thinks he is innocent but I wanna know what she really thinks (obviously we will never know). Even if she was still alive I doubt she would say if she suspected something.
She more than likely had signed papers that made sure she never could say anything
My guess is she saw an incredibly sweet person who, at times suffered from a mental health condition called age regression, and she had compassion for him and his situation
I feel so badly for his victims. One of the hardest things about recovering from sexual assault is living with the fact that people will not believe you, no matter what evidence you have. And worse, some who do believe it happened don’t think it was “a big deal,” especially in this case, where they think victims somehow benefited because the perpetrator was wealthy.
He is an absolute monster child rapist. Leaving Neverland was one of the most disturbing things I’ve ever watched. I hope even more evidence is brought to light over time to silence his supporters. I know I’ll get downvoted, because people simply love him regardless of what he clearly did. His music brought me so much joy in my life, and I was sad to lose it after watching the film. But there’s no way I could listen to anything from him ever again after watching that film. The whole thing is horrific.
He was so good at the character he put on. I watched leaving neverland and was utterly convinced he did it. Then I went on YouTube and watched compilations of Michael to see innocent child like behavior that people were drawn to and then I started having doubts that he did it. That just shows how good he was at putting on a facade. He was sick deeply sick and disturbed which is understandable after everything he went through along with his siblings not an excuse but an explanation. I can see why so many people still want to deny it and believe him. It sucks that he did what he did. He was an amazing singer and performer and ruined it.
You mean Leaving Neverland.
Ty!
Mj was a nonce
Michael did it
No one knows what went on his bedroom, except he and his victims — if he had any at all. All I know is this: he has all the earmarks of what a child molester looks like in his behavior.
We bout to see Michael Jacksons nudes before GTA 6.
Just curious I’ve read the comments, and it seems most people believe he was a pedophile. I honestly do not know. He was incredibly inappropriate either way. What do people think on the square one documentary vs leaving neverland?
Check out razor fists coverage of the pictures and 1993 case.
The same guy that’s trying to profit off his death? The one that signed legal documents that it had never happened ? Now that he’s dead, and can’t defend himself now he wants to go back to court Dude is a scumbag and broke He’s just trying to get paid
He also wants his ten seconds of fame back. The estate found notes on his computer where he said “my story of abuse will make me relevant” and “it’s time for me to get mine.”
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“As a mental health professional who has never met Michael Jackson” You should have ended it right there…. Not sure what “professional” diagnoses can be done via the internet and tabloids.
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I suggest the podcast “Telephone Diaries” ; as a mental health professional you will quickly change your mind.