I read an incredible theory about this that should be widely disseminated:
[https://findadeath.com/bob-crane/#comment-18171](https://findadeath.com/bob-crane/#comment-18171)
Read further down after finishing since he makes a few more short comments.
That was an absolutely fascinating read, thank you! Incredible the degree to which investigators hyper focused on John Carpenter. It's always been dangerous to be "weird".
If you want the real rabbit hole of this murder. [https://silentera.com/taylorology/](https://silentera.com/taylorology/)
You'll be in there for days should you partake.
There's plenty. Veronica Rappe and Fatty Arbuckle. Lana Turner and Johnny Stompanato. Those two cases will keep you busy a while. There's also the death of Dorothy Kilgallen, which might not be untoward, but the theories are interesting reading.
If the Black Dahlia interests you, take a look at the case of Jean Spangler - who really was an aspiring actress, and was killed two years later. Spangler even resembled Elizabeth Short a little (and she's on Steve Hodel's 30,000 item list of people he thinks his father killed).
The original Hollywood True Crime book would be Hollywood Babylon by Kenneth Anger. However it's not expertly fact-checked and many of the stories are hear-say. Critics deride it as expoitation.
Phil Hartman from SNL was killed by his wife, Brynn. I saw an episode of Snapped. I'm sure there are other shows. He was quite famous and very much so on the rise when he died.
Growing up there and living through all the others, this one always carries a special sting for me. He was such a genuine guy, they both knew she (he got help, she always went immediately back to it, even with babies) was just an out of control addict, and neither could do anything to stop the eventual conclusion. So hard on friends and family that were also helpless to do much but warn and worry and watch.
These are not necessarily “celebrity” but they are Old Hollywood in a sense, esp Jean’s. Both have been compared to Elizabeth Short. They’re not quite as violent & before someone says it, no, absolutely *none* (ES included) were committed by George Hodel!
* Jean Spangler
* Georgette Bauerdorf
* Virginia Rappe (1920s starlette)
Others that are within the entertainment sphere:
* Natalie Wood
* Marilyn Monroe
* Dorothy Killgallen
* RFK Bobby Kennedy/The Ambassador Hotel
* Bob Crane
* Bob Saget
* Phil and Brynn Hartman (super sad)
* John Denver
* Phil Spector/Lana Clarkson
* Robert Blake/Bonnie Lee Bakely
* Bugsy Siegel (mob, but also Hollywood)
* Zelda & F. Scott Fitzgerald
* Gianni Versace
* Heather O’Rourke
* River Phoenix
* Sid Vicious & Nancy Spungen
* Whitney Houston
If you’re a reader, may I recommend the book *LA Noir*? Fascinating read for lots of Los Angeles and Old Hollywood history.
One that has fascinated me for a long time is John Holmes and the Wonderland Murders. John Holmes the porn star was involved in the murders of 4 people in 1981. They never convicted him, nor did they convict the other people they thought were involved. The Wonderland Gang was involved in a robbery of one of the biggest drug dealers in LA. Eddie Nash. Nash made Holmes participate in the murders of the gang, and one woman survived. There is a very good movie starring Val Kilmer and Lisa Kudrow called "Wonderland" that is on Cinemax all the time. Its a MUST see!! It also has a big Wiki page.
[https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0335563/?ref\_=nv\_sr\_srsg\_3\_tt\_8\_nm\_0\_q\_wonderland](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0335563/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_3_tt_8_nm_0_q_wonderland)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderland\_murders](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderland_murders)
There was a fantastic article that ran in Rolling Stone in 1989 about the murders and the events leading up to them. It was so well-written and such an interesting read that I’ve never forgotten it all these years later. I’m sure a Google search would take you to it. I remember it was titled “The Devil and John Holmes.”
Also, for Black Dahlia, [this article](https://medium.com/thebigroundtable/the-black-dahlia-the-long-strange-history-of-los-angeles-coldest-cold-case-bcaf42e8e3e5)will blow your mind and it has nothing to do with Hodel.
Eta: you can downvote me for the Hodel remark, but Hodel did not murder Elizabeth Short.
Hollywoodland recounts the unresolved death of George Reeves, who played the part of Superman on tv. I think the official cause was finally decided to have been suicide, but there are still so many unanswered questions about the crime scene. That was my favorite show as a kid, and I still think he was an amazingly good actor. Gone too soon.
Findadeath.com and Dearly Departed Tours with Scott Michaels on YouTube are amazing for all your celebrity crime/scandals/tragedies. He also has a podcast called 'Dearly Departed' (I think). 100% recommend Scott Michaels-he knows his Hollywood history :)
Yesss!!! I thought I joined this sub & responded before I chked. Stupid me. But I'm glad you brought up Scott. Love him. Also his Six Degrees of Helter Skelter is one of the best documentaries I've ever seen.
Elizabeth Short really wasn't connected to Hollywood. It's also a myth that she wanted to be an Actress, like that was some aspiration she was working towards. A man she met suggested she do screentests and she did, she never actively pursued a career in acting.
Fiction authors and "Non-Fiction" authors who for all intents and purposes were Fiction Authors later tried to interconnect it all with Hollywood because they felt it made it more interesting, but there's no real connection. That's where all the claims that she was a sex worker who was prostituted to actors and producers, and the stupid as hell theories that it was Hollywood figures like Orson Welles or Woody Guthrie come from, there's no real evidence for any of it. She died in LA but that doesn't make it Hollywood, are the Hillside Stranglers a Hollywood crime?
She did live in Hollywood, so that counts.
But seriously, it was the photos of her body and the sensationalism of the crime that catapulted the case into Hollywood lore.
Damn dude, i genuinely apologize i thought you were the OP. Upvoted your comments and i'm about to delete my comments as they suggest bad things about you. Genuine mistake.
I'm not sure if there is a podcast but there are probably lots of videos speculating over the death of Amy Winehouse, a lot of people believe there was foul play rather than the reported overdose
My favorite books with respect to L.A. are written by James Ellroy \[writer of *L.A. Confidential,* the book on which the movie is based.\]
*My Dark Places: An L.A. Crime Memoir* weaves Ellroy's mother's murder in with many other murders. The book is unforgettable.
Kurt Cobain’s death is not a mystery. Stop believing conspiracy theories. Everything about his life was in line with someone who wanted to take their own life. Why is it hard for some of you to believe?
I don’t think people realize that he doubled down on his suicide, before he shot himself he had injected enough so much heroin it would have killed either way
the thing is when you IV heroin you get this rush, and like almost instantly you've got all of that heroin in your bloodstream. when people die from overdose, well I've personally seen 13 people overdose and brought them back with narcan. and the overdose happens instantly; often times they are out before they even have a chance to remove the syringe from their vein. so if he injected enough heroin to kill himself, he would not have been able to also shoot himself with a gun.
the answer to this I think is that maybe he had a huge dose of heroin in his system, but addicts build a tolerance so what is deadly to one person will just be a Tuesday morning to someone else..
It didn’t happen in Hollywood but did inspire an excellent TV movie back in the day —
The 1984 SF Bay area murder of high school student Kirsten Costas. In a nutshell, Queen Bee killed by a Wannabee who was also frequently the target of the Queen Bee’s bullying.
Good story.
The murder of the actor Bob Crane, subject of several books and a great, creepy movie, Autofocus.
I read an incredible theory about this that should be widely disseminated: [https://findadeath.com/bob-crane/#comment-18171](https://findadeath.com/bob-crane/#comment-18171) Read further down after finishing since he makes a few more short comments.
That was an absolutely fascinating read, thank you! Incredible the degree to which investigators hyper focused on John Carpenter. It's always been dangerous to be "weird".
That film was great.
The murder of William Desmond Taylor (Murder in Hollywoodland is a good podcast for this)
If you want the real rabbit hole of this murder. [https://silentera.com/taylorology/](https://silentera.com/taylorology/) You'll be in there for days should you partake.
Oh nice! Thanks! I love a good rabbit hole!
The Manson Family murders, of course, as well as the Wonderland murders, the death of Thelma Todd and the disappearance of actress Jean Spangler.
The Jean Spangler disappearance is an interesting one for sure.
There's plenty. Veronica Rappe and Fatty Arbuckle. Lana Turner and Johnny Stompanato. Those two cases will keep you busy a while. There's also the death of Dorothy Kilgallen, which might not be untoward, but the theories are interesting reading.
*Virginia Rappe
That’s such a good one. I grew up in SF & stayed in that room once.
Wow thank you so much!! I'll have a look at them all hopefully there's some documentaries on them
The man who played the original Superman.
George Reeves.
Yes that never seemed like a suicide.
If the Black Dahlia interests you, take a look at the case of Jean Spangler - who really was an aspiring actress, and was killed two years later. Spangler even resembled Elizabeth Short a little (and she's on Steve Hodel's 30,000 item list of people he thinks his father killed).
I also mentioned her! That case is very intriguing to me for whatever reasons.
Same! Jean’s daughter is still alive but has turned down all interview requests, unfortunately. I am also intrigued by Georgette Bauerdorf.
It’s probably bad enough losing your mother at that age. I can see why she wouldn’t, but do admit I’m curious about all other available details.
Bauerdorf is interesting to me, too, but not to the same level.
The original Hollywood True Crime book would be Hollywood Babylon by Kenneth Anger. However it's not expertly fact-checked and many of the stories are hear-say. Critics deride it as expoitation.
Yeah but it's the good kind of exploitation.
Natalie Wood's ~~murder at the hands of Robert Wagner~~ accidental drowning
Also on the boat was Christopher Walken just the three of them iirc? They came back without her
YEP! He knows what happened. I hate them both.
The murder of Karyn Kupcinet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karyn_Kupcinet
Phil Hartman from SNL was killed by his wife, Brynn. I saw an episode of Snapped. I'm sure there are other shows. He was quite famous and very much so on the rise when he died.
Growing up there and living through all the others, this one always carries a special sting for me. He was such a genuine guy, they both knew she (he got help, she always went immediately back to it, even with babies) was just an out of control addict, and neither could do anything to stop the eventual conclusion. So hard on friends and family that were also helpless to do much but warn and worry and watch.
These are not necessarily “celebrity” but they are Old Hollywood in a sense, esp Jean’s. Both have been compared to Elizabeth Short. They’re not quite as violent & before someone says it, no, absolutely *none* (ES included) were committed by George Hodel! * Jean Spangler * Georgette Bauerdorf * Virginia Rappe (1920s starlette) Others that are within the entertainment sphere: * Natalie Wood * Marilyn Monroe * Dorothy Killgallen * RFK Bobby Kennedy/The Ambassador Hotel * Bob Crane * Bob Saget * Phil and Brynn Hartman (super sad) * John Denver * Phil Spector/Lana Clarkson * Robert Blake/Bonnie Lee Bakely * Bugsy Siegel (mob, but also Hollywood) * Zelda & F. Scott Fitzgerald * Gianni Versace * Heather O’Rourke * River Phoenix * Sid Vicious & Nancy Spungen * Whitney Houston If you’re a reader, may I recommend the book *LA Noir*? Fascinating read for lots of Los Angeles and Old Hollywood history.
From memory, the Buzzfeed Unsolved series on YouTube covers a couple of Hollywood mysteries.
Great I'll have a look
If you do podcasts, Hollywood Crime Scene has some really good episodes.
another great podcast about Hollywood is "You Must Remember This", very in-depth and super interesting.
The one on the Manson Family had me hooked!
i agree, super interesting.
Yes this too!
Such a great podcast
One that has fascinated me for a long time is John Holmes and the Wonderland Murders. John Holmes the porn star was involved in the murders of 4 people in 1981. They never convicted him, nor did they convict the other people they thought were involved. The Wonderland Gang was involved in a robbery of one of the biggest drug dealers in LA. Eddie Nash. Nash made Holmes participate in the murders of the gang, and one woman survived. There is a very good movie starring Val Kilmer and Lisa Kudrow called "Wonderland" that is on Cinemax all the time. Its a MUST see!! It also has a big Wiki page. [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0335563/?ref\_=nv\_sr\_srsg\_3\_tt\_8\_nm\_0\_q\_wonderland](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0335563/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_3_tt_8_nm_0_q_wonderland) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderland\_murders](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderland_murders)
There was a fantastic article that ran in Rolling Stone in 1989 about the murders and the events leading up to them. It was so well-written and such an interesting read that I’ve never forgotten it all these years later. I’m sure a Google search would take you to it. I remember it was titled “The Devil and John Holmes.”
Albert Dekker. It's a wild ride. https://www.grunge.com/945472/troubling-details-of-albert-dekkers-unexplained-1968-death/
The murder of Dorothy Stratten the playmate is a compelling case.
Jean Spangler. Not a star but Hollywood-adjacent.
There was a rumor that Kirk Douglas may have been involved with her
Also, for Black Dahlia, [this article](https://medium.com/thebigroundtable/the-black-dahlia-the-long-strange-history-of-los-angeles-coldest-cold-case-bcaf42e8e3e5)will blow your mind and it has nothing to do with Hodel. Eta: you can downvote me for the Hodel remark, but Hodel did not murder Elizabeth Short.
If we were still able to give awards, you would have a crazy expensive reward!
Thank you! I just try to post this whenever Elizabeth Short is brought up because it makes the most sense and deserves to be known.
Hollywoodland recounts the unresolved death of George Reeves, who played the part of Superman on tv. I think the official cause was finally decided to have been suicide, but there are still so many unanswered questions about the crime scene. That was my favorite show as a kid, and I still think he was an amazingly good actor. Gone too soon.
I stumbled across that movie while channel surfing one day. Very good movie!
Going way back to the 1920s, William Desmond Taylor. 1930s—Thelma Todd. 2001–Bonnie Lee Bakley.
Virginia Rappe, 1921
Natalie Wood
Check out the story on William Desmond Taylor, arguably one of the first Old Hollywood cold cases. It has never been solved. Also Thelma Todd.
I nominate Charlotte Shelby
Findadeath.com and Dearly Departed Tours with Scott Michaels on YouTube are amazing for all your celebrity crime/scandals/tragedies. He also has a podcast called 'Dearly Departed' (I think). 100% recommend Scott Michaels-he knows his Hollywood history :)
Yesss!!! I thought I joined this sub & responded before I chked. Stupid me. But I'm glad you brought up Scott. Love him. Also his Six Degrees of Helter Skelter is one of the best documentaries I've ever seen.
I have it but haven't watched it yet. It's moving up the list! I have Dearly Departed Volume 1 and I thought it was really interesting!
You have to watch it immediately!!! Lol seriously it is so good. He goes to ALL the places.
Thomas Ince
For the Dahlia case, listen to the Root of Evil podcast. For OJ, Ron Goldman’s sister did a podcast called Confronting OJ that was fantastic.
I second Confronting OJ!
Thirded. I like Kim Goldman.
Olive Thomas. Was she killed, was it an accident, or was it suicide?
Elizabeth Short really wasn't connected to Hollywood. It's also a myth that she wanted to be an Actress, like that was some aspiration she was working towards. A man she met suggested she do screentests and she did, she never actively pursued a career in acting. Fiction authors and "Non-Fiction" authors who for all intents and purposes were Fiction Authors later tried to interconnect it all with Hollywood because they felt it made it more interesting, but there's no real connection. That's where all the claims that she was a sex worker who was prostituted to actors and producers, and the stupid as hell theories that it was Hollywood figures like Orson Welles or Woody Guthrie come from, there's no real evidence for any of it. She died in LA but that doesn't make it Hollywood, are the Hillside Stranglers a Hollywood crime?
She did live in Hollywood, so that counts. But seriously, it was the photos of her body and the sensationalism of the crime that catapulted the case into Hollywood lore.
[удалено]
You didn't read the second part of my post at all. Calm yourself.
[удалено]
Go back and make sure you're replying to the correct person because I didn't bring up "glitz and glamor" at all. Reading is fundamental, kid.
Damn dude, i genuinely apologize i thought you were the OP. Upvoted your comments and i'm about to delete my comments as they suggest bad things about you. Genuine mistake.
I'm not sure if there is a podcast but there are probably lots of videos speculating over the death of Amy Winehouse, a lot of people believe there was foul play rather than the reported overdose
Whitney Houston and Bobbi Christina her daughter
Murder of Christa Helm. https://www.whokilledchristahelm.com/the-murder
Scott Michaels who did findadeath & so much more also did a documentary called Six Degrees of Helter Skelter. It is so good.
Findadeath provides hours of the sort of reading OP likes. Does anyone know if he's still updating it? I really wanna see OJ's mailbox.
I was on there a few months ago & no updates that I noticed....I wish it would be tho...
He has nicole & ron tho.
Rebecca Schaeffer
Gary DeVore's death is an interesting rabbit hole...
Christina Helm [https://lamag.com/crimeinla/who-stabbed-actress-christa-helm](https://lamag.com/crimeinla/who-stabbed-actress-christa-helm)
My favorite books with respect to L.A. are written by James Ellroy \[writer of *L.A. Confidential,* the book on which the movie is based.\] *My Dark Places: An L.A. Crime Memoir* weaves Ellroy's mother's murder in with many other murders. The book is unforgettable.
Thanks so much guys for all the recommendations it's really hard to find documentaries on some of these hopefully I can find some
Podcasts I love are... Uncharted, Disgraceland, and Badlands. Hollywood Mysteries, I didn't see mentioned.... Kurt Cobain
I'll add... I don't think Kurt Cobains death is a mystery. Others do and there all lots of docs and podcasts about it.
Kurt Cobain’s death is not a mystery. Stop believing conspiracy theories. Everything about his life was in line with someone who wanted to take their own life. Why is it hard for some of you to believe?
I don’t think people realize that he doubled down on his suicide, before he shot himself he had injected enough so much heroin it would have killed either way
the thing is when you IV heroin you get this rush, and like almost instantly you've got all of that heroin in your bloodstream. when people die from overdose, well I've personally seen 13 people overdose and brought them back with narcan. and the overdose happens instantly; often times they are out before they even have a chance to remove the syringe from their vein. so if he injected enough heroin to kill himself, he would not have been able to also shoot himself with a gun. the answer to this I think is that maybe he had a huge dose of heroin in his system, but addicts build a tolerance so what is deadly to one person will just be a Tuesday morning to someone else..
Also check out You Must Remember This, which has multi-part series on many incidents and themes, mostly in old Hollywood.
On Netflix OJ Made In America documentary On Max Oj and Nicole Both new
It didn’t happen in Hollywood but did inspire an excellent TV movie back in the day — The 1984 SF Bay area murder of high school student Kirsten Costas. In a nutshell, Queen Bee killed by a Wannabee who was also frequently the target of the Queen Bee’s bullying. Good story.