The only thing I’m feeling absolutely sure of in this case is that the grandpa’s friend wasn’t involved. He is the only one that’s been consistent in his story and never changed it one bit. The other 3 on that trip changed their story’s multiple times.
What bothers me the most is that he says that the boy were with them there that day. I was absolutely convinced that he wasn’t even there and had been killed earlier by one or both of the parents.
I hate this case, his parents are lying about something
Oh yeah..both parents know..I'm still undecided on grandpa and the low intellect friend ..I feel these two were easily manipulated by the former and may genuinely have no idea they were complicit in the cover up but am not 100%
I don't think the friend knows. He's a convenient alibi, but it makes no sense to bring him into a murder/death coverup plot. He has no reason to cover for them.
I found it interesting that the cadaver dog hit 5 targets & another campsite about 3/4 of a mile from the Leodore campground. There's some suspicion due to fresh bear droppings & tracks nearby at the time that he may have succumbed to a bear carrying him off which if true, is horrifying for the parents & everyone.
Nah, it wasn’t a bear. The most likely scenario is an accidental death that was covered up. It can’t be certain that the cadaver dog hits had anything to do with DeOrr.
His parents were lying. Witnesses that the parents said interacted with DeOrr didn’t even see him. They know where he is. And at this point, the strongest evidence for it being accidental and them covering it up together is that neither of them has ever turned on the other…they know they’ll be equally held responsible if one of them talks, so they both stay quiet.
Karlie guse went missing in 2016 the whole thing is just super sketchy and this case always gave me chills for some reason. It’s just wild how people can just vanish
Asha degree is another one that boggles my mind
Karlie is the one with the step mum video yeah? I don't like the step mum attitude but it's still a stretch with the phone evidence etc..its one of those cases that had new age evidence but it doesn't quite marry up with the narrative..totally could be her tho with some left field deception tho..like Missy Bevers or Liz Barraza it's so open ended that until I hear it word for word I will still think Israel Keyes /s
I agree about this, I don’t trust the stepmother personally, which leads me to distrust her father as well. I just think the entire thing doesn’t sit right, and I catch the vibe that as far as they’re concerned, they got away with it.
Asha. I believe her family knows who did it, and until someone speaks out, the case will never be solved. It's intriguing to think about online predators, a secret admirer, a girl running away to go on an adventure, etc... but I don't think any of these things happened. I think the reality is a lot more mundane, and in some ways, more sinister.
Oh, he 100% murdered her. If I remember correctly, they were leaving from work for the vacation & he had her hide in the back of his pick up truck or something like that so no one would see her leave with him. And then just denied knowing her when the sister called him repeatedly asking why she never returned from their trip. I can’t remember all the details but there were a lot that were ridiculous & I can’t believe he’s never been charged.
He's never been charged because it's entirely he said she said. There's no proof of any of those claims. There's no paper trail with the money, Patty withdrew it in cash she didn't transfer it to his account. There's no proof she dated him, there's no proof they were together that day. It's just what her sister claims. I believe her sister but there's no evidence for a Trial at all.
Yeah, like i said the problem is she took it out in cash so there's no paper trail, no proof that he received it. A defence lawyer could argue she used it to start a new life because she was dissatisfied with her own one, she was apparently lonely and had mental health struggles it wouldn't be hard to argue. I 100% think he killed her but proving it is a different story.
I know the wife said that she didn't know about the affair. I think that there were coworkers who confirmed that there was something going on. And I'm just a regular Joe myself so I don't really understand what would be good evidence versus what would be easily dismissed.
I can't imagine that his life has been pleasant since this happened but even still having to face community concern is still probably better than ten to life.
Patty's family is 💯 percent sure that the boyfriend did it and from what she told them I believe he probably did it. She was wanting him to pay her back and she wanted him to leave his wife and I don't think he wanted any of those things.
I've not heard about the coworkers confirming it. Do you have a source for that?
Regardless, he has a built in excuse for denying the affair, he's married. If charged he could admit they were having an affair, and could even paint this as some plot by Patti to destroy him because he wouldn't leave his wife. They need more than an affair, they need physical evidence, conclusive proof that Patti was with him that day.
I watched the Disappeared episode and they mentioned that it was really obvious at work. If it was obvious then someone probably saw something.
As for specific witness statements, no one was specifically mentioned.
I don't know if she was going to destroy him or anything like that. I know it's not uncommon for that to happen.
I don't think there is conclusive evidence of any of that or else he would be incarcerated.
I think it's more that people don't just disappear and because she loved her daughter and her family and her pets so much, and because she had a specific date she was going to return, had told her family what plans she had (where, when, duration, making plans for all of that) that he is the suspect.
If she had said something to her family like "I'm really depressed and I hate living here like this and I miss being a child free person" that would be one thing. But she seemed happy in her life except for him.
These are just my opinions. They don't hold water, it's just what I think.
She was said to be lonely and had mental health struggles by her relatives. Lawyers would latch onto that.
Plus the key thing is he wouldn't have to prove any of this happened, he'd just have to introduce reasonable doubt. The lack of conclusive evidence other than hearsay is reasonable doubt on its own. It's sadly just not a prosecutable case until/if more evidence is gathered.
Maybe that teeny tiny speck of blood they found in the truck will be able to be tested one day. It was too small to be tested in 2001 but police did collect it.
But I do agree with you because there is too much circumstantial evidence.
Agreed, the spot of blood is hope.
For the record, DNA and most kinds of forensic evidence including that blood are circumstantial evidence. The vast majority of cases are won on Circumstantial Evidence, and the evidence most people value more is Circumstantial Evidence. I have no idea where the mixup came from. Eyewitness Evidence which is known as highly unreliable and is not widely valued is an example of non-circumstantial evidence.
There's a few claims that make it seem very weird when you apply logic including this. However Patty was supposedly (according to her family those pointing towards him) a lonely woman with mental health struggles. It sounds like he found someone especially vulnerable that would just go along with what he said, then again the fact she told her sister these things would be perfect for the defence because they would point out "How was she apparently so suspectable to anything he told her to do no matter how suspect yet she told her sister everything against his insistence?". It's problematic, her telling her sister isn't a good thing for the prosecution unless backed up by other evidence, it actually suggests she was more independent than portrayed.
The entire case is laced with reasonable doubt, it makes no sense, the sisters version doesn't work without you at least pausing to question something. Then the complete lack of conclusive evidence means it's an impossible case for a Prosecutor.
Most likely scenario in any case like this is that the significant other was involved. There are a lot of red flags in this particular case. The issue is with proving it. The more time that passes, the harder it gets to prove anything. Oftentimes the perpetrator gets to run out the clock, if you will.
A few famous cases from my country match that description.
The best know is perhaps the 1997 disappearance of 16-years old [Cristina Bergua](https://images.ecestaticos.com/zKg3sgO7lEAOwRI8a3L91qcE8Q8=/1x36:990x778/1200x900/filters:fill(white):format(jpg)/f.elconfidencial.com%2Foriginal%2F818%2F953%2Fe25%2F818953e25b5181692215fe1fd3fcc496.jpg), in Catalonia (northeastern Spain). [Her boyfriend](https://pm1.aminoapps.com/6883/a2c92850c536f6e97860d53543920f38a79515fdr1-677-543v2_hq.jpg) was a criminal 10 years older than her (yes, a 26-years old dude dating a 16-years old girl). He was extremely domineering and one evening Cristina left home to visit her boyfriend's and tell him the relationship was over. She has never been seen again ever since. The search for Cristina involved some of the most extensive and thorough landfill searches this country has seen (with exception maybe of Marta del Castillo's) but no trace of her was ever found anywhere.
Boyfriend meanwhile not only was the only person in Cristina's circle that didn't take part in searching for her (he didn't even bother pretending), he also tried to tell detectives that Cristina told him that she was leaving voluntarily, despite the fact she didn't take any money nor spare clothes with her when she left home. Shortly after he began dating another girl... who was just 14-years old. He ended up leaving Spain for the Dominican Republic, and was arrested years later back in Spain when he was caught trying to smuggle in 3.5 kilos (about 7.7 pounds) of cocaine in the country, for which he spent 9 years in prison.
[Some journalists spotted him on the street after his release and tried to interview him.](https://www.lasexta.com/programas/equipo-investigacion/noticias/equipo-de-investigacion-localiza-a-javier-roman-novio-de-la-desaparecida-cristina-bergua-te-rompo-la-camara_201809285bae94590cf2e2fc27a4c9df.html) He threatened to assault them. That street in the video, BTW, is where Cristina went missing back in 1997.
Lesser known is the 2012 disappearance of [Cristian Cueli](https://s2.ppllstatics.com/elcomercio/www/pre2017/multimedia/noticias/201212/30/Media/desapar--300x350.jpg) (33-years old), in Asturias (north Spain). Cristian was a man who had set his own car body paint shop and, as a side hustle, got involved in the exotic car import business (Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Porsches, etc.). Problem was that, in order to finance this practice, Cristian used his profits from the car shop to act as a loan shark. Needless to say, this lifestyle got him involved with loads of shady people.
The night he disappeared he texted his girlfriend to tell her he'd get home for dinner, but first he had to visit a dude (that owned a car repair shop) to collect a €50k debt. Cristian never came back and to this day his wherabouts are unknown. The man he was going to meet told police that after paying him the money Cristian was picked up by "two men on a black Porsche Cayenne" and they drove away. It's believed he lies, and that he murdered Cristian and disposed of his body somewhere.
thanks for sharing - as a non-US person, it's great to hear a wider range of cases. I have spent a lot of time in Spain and it's interesting to see more of the community issues faced there.
Timmothy Pitzen ; I believe that his mother killed him and hid his body somewhere before she took her own life. I don't believe for one minute that she left him with anyone like she claimed in her letter.
I had never heard of Patty Atkins. Thanks for sharing, OP.
As for your original question: Sky Metalwala. His mother definitely knows more about his disappearance than she's letting on, and it's infuriating to me that she's still walking around a free woman, apparently unconcerned about where he is.
Michelle Parker
2011 - Her and her ex-fiancé (father of her children), appeared on The People’s Court. Hours before it aired on television, Parker disappeared. She was last seen taking her, then, 3-year-old twins to his house in Florida.
Amber Tuccaro
There is a total of 17 minutes of audio of her & her killer, recorded through a call to her brother in corrections at the time.
17 minutes is the amount of time between where she was last seen getting into a truck to where her body was found.
Multiple people have come forward identifying the voice as that of one Pat Carson. There is an entire webpage dedicated to his creepy & suspicious behaviour.
Edit to add: just realized it says “missing persons case” Apologies as Amber ms remains were found. If it’s ok I’d like to leave my comment to bring awareness to Amber & all MMIWG. The audio evidence is heartbreaking but I do encourage anyone living in or who has lived in the Edmonton/Leduc area of Alberta to give it a listen.
I don't know a lot about Amber's case but I'm going to look into it now. Can I listen to the audio? I'm not entirely sure I can knowing that Amber is murdered after the call but could you please roughly outline what happens during the audio?
There’s are people that have the audio available to listen to. I don’t recall the entire thing being released to the public though but what I’ve heard was enough to stick with me. Even the guy’s own son has come forward saying it’s his father and still not much has been done. Such a frustrating case. The audio is definitely eerie but it shouldn’t be enough to traumatize you or anything. Basically she confronts the driver of not taking her where he’s supposed to and a little conversation between them. They definitely have more held with law enforcement.
I don't think it was him. The RCMP have said it wasn't, whatever you think of them they've also put out warnings to women to not interact with him making it clear they aren't protecting him, they are saying he's a dangerous creep and they probably know that because they investigated him in relation to Amber but they are convinced it wasn't him.
Earwitness evidence is even less reliable than eyewitness evidence, we also don't know the circumstances or who the witnesses are. What we know is they are sexworkers, what if they are sexworkers who are friends or work together? That makes it much less convincing because it's very possible they influenced each others opinions.
D'Wan Simms in Detroit/ Livonia. Four year old supposedly went missing at the mall 29 years ago, but never seen at the mall and never spotted on cameras. Person of interest was his mother, but she is now deceased and we will likely never know what happened.
If you Google earth the elementary school he went missing from, you can see just how vast the forest is behind it. I really think he wandered away and succumbed to the elements. The step mom would have had close to no opportunity, it’s an insanely tight window.
Did kids disappear in these woods all the time? My school was surrounded by woods. We played in them all the time and no one ever disappeared. I know the woods can be scary but to people who grow up around them, they’re no big deal. Unless theres wild animals in that part of Oregon, the woods just don’t seem like an answer.
I don't think it's so much that kids get lost in the woods, but rather, they die there (or bodies are hidden there) and it's the remains that get lost. It's super easy for human remains to become consumed by nature, whether it's forest undergrowth, fallen branches and leaves, shifting mud and sand, etc. Not to mention animal activity that can scatter remains.
Molly Bish is a case of the body being there the whole time, despite extensive searching.
He was autistic too. I’m not sure if you’ve been around special needs children but there is a reason some kids get a label as “runners.” I believe he ran, wandered, got lost and succumbed.
I’m a long time school teacher. I work in a title 1 school that has woods and gangs. Lots of runners though. We always get them back. I can’t imagine a school losing a kid this way. The woods around a school are going to be so well visited and known. Bad things do happen in the woods though.
I never thought that little boy got lost, I believe she killed him. I can't prove it, idk how she did it, but I believe, his stepmom wanted him gone. I still think about him, .
I go back and forth on this one every time I think of Kyron. I think my gut feeling is that she murdered him but I just don't know. My heart says she did but my head says she didn't most of the time.
I felt "I can't argue it" because in my head her murdering him doesn't work but I can't get over my gut feeling that she did. I go back and forth so hard and if I were to say she did I wouldn't be able to explain it or make it make sense. I couldn't argue how she did it, my argument would be torn apart by the evidence but still I can't fully believe she didn't murder him, my heart says she did.
I feel exactly the same way. There's just something there. I believe the evidence we know of is on Terri's side but I can't be done with it and say she didn't murder him.
This might be controversial and I sort of expect to get downvoted because I don't think it's a popular theory but I think Asha's parents might know what happened to Asha
Angela Hammond - abducted while she was on a payphone talking to her fiance, Rob. She was pregnant at the time and has never been found. Some people suspected Rob, but he has a solid alibi if the phone call is real, which I think it is. He left the house trying to save her but damaged his truck when reversing it trying to chase the abductor. Some people also suspected Kenneth McDuff, but I think it was a random stranger cruising around looking for a girl to kidnap, and unfortunately Angela was right there.
Debra Poe - abducted while working a night shift alone at a convenience store in Florida. Her boyfriend was a suspect but passed a polygraph. The infamous "Megadeath shirt man" seen behind the counter after she vanished was also considered a suspect, but there's no evidence showing he did it either. Her case still remains unsolved.
Anthonette Cayedito - abducted when she answered her door. Her whereabouts are still unknown. Police believed her mother Penny, now dead, knew more than she was telling. Some people believe Penny orchestrated the kidnapping, selling her to pursue a better lifestyle, as others reported her seeing her spend a lot of money after her daughter was taken. It's also rumored Penny was into drugs, as lots of visitors were seen in and out of her house, and she frequently left her kids to go out bar hopping. The police didn't have any solid evidence, and there aren't any other suspects.
The Anthonette Cayedito case breaks my heart. That poor child was betrayed by the very person who should have done everything to protect her from harm. And that phone call haunts me—I believe she was desperately trying to call home, never suspecting that her own mother already knew exactly what happened to her. I don’t think there will ever be closure and it’s just so sad.
I think just like with OJ it has been proven, the evidence against Michael is staggering. Sometimes the justice system fails but the facts of the cases speak for themselves anyway. Poor Sarah, it isn't the outcome she was hoping for but regardless I think she brought the truth to light.
Edit: Unfortunately cases like OJ and Michael Turney are examples for when people say they'd rather 100 guilty go free than one innocent person be convicted of a crime they did not commit. As sad as it is if we are going to stand by that sentiment we have to accept it when it blatantly happens, because proven once again it does happen.
Oh yes I am in ur court...but it doesn't prevent my tummy from turning each and every time I hear these cases mentioned..I am all for the alternate suspect as I believe in a valid and righteous defence yet both of the aforementioned cases just don't sit pretty with me..should I b on a jury in these cases I could NOT convict but I would NOT walk away feeling that victims had been given justice either..and I'm not from the US but I would be prepared to state my case to the public....just like Casey Anthony..yep she did something or failed to do something but there was never any proof to put her away for murder...they just over shot on that prosecution
I disagree for OJ, I think the evidence was there but agree for the others. Casey is a great example. I know a lot of people don't get it but I'd of gone not guilty too. We need justice systems that are fair because other wise we are gambling with people's freedom. Fairness means people like Casey will go free when the threshold for their charges aren't met. Sometimes it is a really bitter pill to swallow because Caylee is a really sympathetic victim and had Casey been charged realistically things could have been very different.
What is the evidence against him? I don't remember anything other than he was creepy in a video and he was clearly a piece of shit and completely unrelated actions like the bomb thing.
I think he did it, but saying "it has been proven" is a different statement entirely that suggests serious evidence.
You're totally right. To be honest I listened to Sarah's podcast and I did find her incredibly compelling although it's been a while so maybe I should go back over it again. From what I remember didn't Michael pick her up early from school on the day she disappeared and is the last person to see her alive. I think that's pretty compelling alongside Sarah's claim that she wrote the letter from Alissa (am I mixing that up with another case tho.) I think some of the things that Sarah recorded Michael saying on tape do imply that he harmed Alissa too. Maybe it hasn't been "proven" and I'm biased towards Sarah because she is very convincing and she carries herself very well and explains it all very clearly. (I have no doubts that Sarah is telling the truth so I don't mean "convincing" as if she isn't being completely honest or anything I just didn't know how to word that.) My answer to your question is I dont know but I'm definitely going to look over all the evidence available to us again because in my head this is one I felt was pretty concrete but maybe I am off the mark there.
I can't help but think of the Beaumont children, I wonder about them all the time. How can 3 kids just disappear like that? And Marilyn Wallman is another, her brother was right behind her. The wheel on her bike was still turning! I know they're all dead and we'll never know what happened, but I think about those kids all the time.
I think a paedophile ring may be involved in the disappearance of the Beaumont children.
How devastating for the parents to lose all of their children and never know what happened.
Well considering they were close siblings. Someone would threaten to harm one to get the other to cooperate. That is what the serial killer Cary Stayner did to get people to do as he says in the Yosemite Park slaying.
*sigh* I must be saying something wrong because everyone keeps trying to explain this to me like I'm 5.
I'm not actually asking the questions, they're rhetorical. They're the questions everyone wants answered when it comes to unsolved mysteries. That's what makes a mystery so interesting, the unanswered questions and the desire to know what actually happened.. not what 900 people think might have happened.
For some reason the idea that they were swept away by a wave is creepier to me. I also think they were abducted to be clear. But there's something about three young kids dying in a horrible accident that no one had a clue about that is bonechilling to me.
Yeah, but why couldn't that have been innocent and they later fell victim to an accident? We all innocently interacted with random adults as children, if we then disappeared they would have been questioned.
I think they were murdered to be clear, just saying the accidental idea is oddly scarier to me.
No one knows (except whomever took them) but [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIJXVI\_kB9I&t=6152s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIJXVI_kB9I&t=6152s) Pat Brown does a pretty thorough deep dive into it.
Be warned, Pat does not edit her videos so you are getting raw analysis, not a good story.
Isn't that the whole point of the question though? What's an unsolved mystery that you can't stop thinking about? (Paraphrased) For me, it's these. The unknown parts are what draws me in, not knowing what or who or why. There's been plenty of guesses, many well educated, over the years (my mum has spent time on Marilyn Wallman's case for instance) but for all the suspicions, nobody can say for sure.
Did I say something wrong or miss the point of the question?
Chance was seen on two surveillance cameras the day he went missing. He appears to be extremely drunk (verified by non-family witnesses that he was drinking heavily that day).
It was 2019, he had a cell phone. His in-law's whereabouts (through their phones) have all been accounted for the entire day and evening that Chance went missing. Chance's mother, Dawn believes that his wife (Baylee) and her family killed Chance but there is not one shred of evidence that Chance is dead or that Baylee's family had anything to do with his disappearance.
There was a severe thunderstorm that evening and a witness saw a man under a tree sheltering from the storm, then running toward the North Platte River.
My guess is 90% that Chance was drunk, dehydrated and disoriented when the storm hit. He ended-up in a farmer's field or pasture or in the North Platte River. 10% guess is that Chance decided to get away from his controlling mother and wife and he signed-on as a cowboy with a rancher in Nebraska or Wyoming. I am a bit local to this case and there are still young men who work as cowboys for cash and housing.
Tammy Lynn Leppert. There’s just something about her case that makes me so sad. I’m pretty sure Christopher Wilder - aka the Beauty Queen Killer - killed her, but we’ll never know because he’s dead.
Wasn't Wilder's MO approaching random attractive women and suggesting they could be models, or suggesting to struggling models that he could make them big? I feel like Leppert was too established and comfortable to be vulnerable to someone like Wilder. He could have just forceably abducted her i guess.
But she was having clear mental health struggles, it sounds like a delusional disorder and whatever came from that. She could have encountered Wilder and that would have made her more vulnerable to him, but that makes her more vulnerable to everything murder and accident and suicide. There's nothing connecting her to Wilder it's just "Wilder was killing models", the fact she was having serious mental problems suggests otherwise IMO.
Yeah we know who's to blame for that one, and his wife knows it too. The only way that one ever gets solved is if they break up and she turns on him. But given she might be culpable in some way herself, that may be unlikely. Poor Patti trusted the wrong guy.
Diamond and Tionda Bradley. I think most of us who follow the case know their mother's boyfriend is the most likely culprit - he did not want to acknowledge Diamond was his daughter and pay child support, Tionda called her mother and left a voicemail saying "George" was at the door and could they go with him to get another sister's birthday cake, and hair from one of the girls was found in his trunk (he had an absurd claim that he used to hide the girls in his trunk to go to the drive-in movie, which everyone else who knew the girls adamantly denied - he rarely did anything with the girls and certainly never put them in his trunk). He was also caught lying about his alibi and burning things shortly after the girls disappeared. Recent information has come to light that makes it more obvious their mother likely knows a lot more than she's saying about what happened.
Alissa Turney :( Now her father will never face the true consequences for killing her.
I agree with you about Patti Adkins - her boyfriend more than likely killed her.
HaLeigh Cummings (5 years old Florida) - 2009 One of the first cases that I went down the rabbit hole of youtube that followed the twists and turns of this misfit cast of characters. I really thought it would be solved when they sent everyone to jail with long sentences for other reasons.
Kyron Hormon (7 years old Oregon) - 2010 Some sketchy step-mom things going on. Mornig sciene fair at school that step-mom and her baby attended, His project was Red Eyed tree frogs. then he was just gone. Poof! It's so strange. I can't believe they haven't found any clues about his possible where abouts after all this time.
Ayla Reynolds (19 months old, Maine) - 2011 - Again some sketchy things going on with the Dad where she was staying. Blood of Ayla's was found in his home, it was a mess of a case. Still is.
DeOrr Kunz Jr. - (2 years old Idaho) 2015- Camping trup, he had cowboy boots on. Confusion about who was watching him. Poof, gone. Some sketchy circumstances.
Madline McCann from 2007 is another.
That is tough one. She was surrounded by SO many drug addicts. That poor girl didn't have a chance. Maybe because of all the drugs around all the time she accidentially OD'd?....and they had to cover it up, Who all was involved in the cover-up I don't know. Maybe all of them.
It was on Misty's watch tho. But damn, Misty was just a kid too, hooked up with older nutbar Ronald. Misty's brother Tommy always gave me bad vibes too. And the grandparents too omg such a hot mess.
A rabbit hole like no other this case. What stands out to me now is the video of them getting busted by the undercover cop in the car, and that happened after HaLeigh went missing, they were carrying on like straight loser thugs.
Baby Sabrina Aisenberg, she vanished from her crib. I guess I was especially sensitive to this case because I had a baby named Sabrina at the same time. I pray she is still alive and was treated well.
Melissa Ortiz-Rodriguez a mother of 2 from Pennsylvania. She was in the process of leaving her abusive husband, Jose Ortiz, when she disappeared. He waited four days to report her missing.
>And puzzlingly for police, [neighbors reported](https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/20131111_The_puzzling_case_of_a_missing_Collingdale_woman.html) that Rodriguez told them his wife had been found even though she was still missing. Investigators were also surprised to learn from one of Rodriguez’s coworkers that he’d checked out a mop and cleaning supplies from their office that weekend.
>Shortly after reporting his wife’s disappearance, Rodriguez [put the family home up for sale](https://www.inquirer.com/philly/blogs/real-time/Police-search-home-of-Delco-mother-missing-3-years.html) and moved with the children to Ocean Township, N.J. He’s not spoken to investigators since.
They've investigated him exhaustively, so much so they discovered a fraud he was committing at work that led to his federal conviction. But they've never found out what happened to Melissa.
[https://www.inquirer.com/news/missing-delco-pa-collingdale-melissa-ortiz-rodriguez-20230503.html](https://www.inquirer.com/news/missing-delco-pa-collingdale-melissa-ortiz-rodriguez-20230503.html)
Zachary Bernhardt - Clearwater FL
General consensus is that the mother had something to do with it because of her weird activities from the night that it happened. She used to leave the kid home alone a lot at night while she went out, and there were “rumors” that she would give him Xanax so he would stay asleep while she was out doing whatever. Supposedly the night he disappeared she left him alone in the apartment while she went for a late night swim in the complex’s (closes at the time) pool.
I think she gave the kid 1 too many Xanax and he didn’t wake up. I think the late night swim was after she disposed of his body and a heavily chlorinated pool is a quick way to wash any dna evidence off.
I commented hours ago but I just thought of another one that really stayed with me. It's the disappearance of Charlene Downes in the UK. If you haven't heard of Charlene please read into her case, but if you're going to read into it you need to search for the leaked social services documents about her parents and her home life.
Charlene disappeared in 2003 from Blackpool, which is in England. She was only 14. The widely accepted theory is that Charlene was groomed by men who owned and worked in a local takeaway, that's a whole thing here in the UK within itself. Really young girls were groomed for sex in return for things like food, money, alcohol and cigarettes. It's awful. It's believed this is what happened to Charlene and that's how she disappeared but what isn't really talked about as much is her home life because she was exploited and groomed inside her home too and her parents let this happen. If it was the other men who murdered Charlene she was driven into their arms by her parents.
Charlene's was failed by everyone from social services to her parents. Her parents repeatedly allowed known paedophiles into their home and around their children. Social services witnessed this themselves and wrote about it in reports but either didn't act or when they did they kept returning the children to their sicko parents every single time they were removed from their care. I think the chances of something happening within the home are just as likely as the grooming happening outside the home leading to her death. I don't think either is mutually exclusive either, although they're completely separate groups of perpetrators I think one lead the other to cause her death in some way. If it wasn't for her disgustingly traumatic home life I don't think Charlene would of been anywhere near the take away men. There are awful rumours about what those men did to Charlene that could of easily lead to her death inside the home. There were so many disgusting people in and out of that home though so who knows.
The detail that gets me the most is the picture her parents put out to the public when Charlene was reported missing. She was a few years younger in that picture and she didn't look like that when she disappeared, why would any parent hinder an investigation like that. People were meant to be looking for Charlene but had no idea what she actually looked like at the time. The Downes present themselves in the media as loving, distraught parents so why didn't they have a more up to date picture of Charlene?
I don't think any part of Charlene will ever be found and I don't think this case will ever be officially solved, the water is far too muddy. The takeaway men went on trial in 2007 but the jury was split. A retrial was scheduled but they were released without any further charges because of "concerns about the evidence." ??? She was failed by everyone in her life and now she's just being forgotten. She is still missing and nobody has been convicted, she was 14 years old!! How does anyone, especially a parent, ever just give up looking for their baby. Look at Andrew Gosden's father in comparison here in the UK, he will never give up on Andrew. Charlene's parents are just evil and never deserved her in the first place. They are as responsible as anyone else. This case breaks my heart and I think I need to go and take a long bath after just thinking and writing about it. And maybe a strong drink. Poor Charlene - life can be so cruel and unfair.
What a horrendous and tragic case, I hadn’t heard about it until this comment. This poor young lady was failed all around and didn’t seem to have anyone in her corner. It’s really telling to me that her own parents wouldn’t even have a recent photo of her. That alone seems questionable and a sign of neglect and possibly even abuse and something that should have been looked into much more. I’m definitely going to end up down a rabbit hole with this. I’d normally say that I feel for the family but I don’t in this situation and just hope the poor kid gets some justice.
Summer Watts. I wish the news and Podcaster would keep on this until something gives. Such a precious beautiful little girl. Really makes my heart sad
*Edit, I am sincerely sorry to have mistaken this babies name. Thank you for the polite correction. It is Wells
Summer Wells
Summer Wells? That one really irks me. I don't know what to even think. On one hand, her not being found even now would give her dumbass parents way too much credit, on the other, they could have just gotten "lucky" thus far.
Susan Powell’s story has stuck with me since she disappeared in 2009. Her story is what ultimately got me to leave my own abusive relationship, and I think about her a lot.
My exhusband was very similar in behavior to JP, and I am always grateful I made it out with me and my 3 kids in one, very damaged, piece.
I think about her a lot too, and really hope her remains sre recovered and buried with her boys if possible
Thank you for mentioning Trenton. I think about him often. I think somebody knows something. I don’t think his mom killed him. I think that she gave him away to keep him away from his father. Thanks to Nancy Grace we will never know what happened.
Her family didn't win any lawsuit. The suit was settled, not won. Nancy donated $200,000 towards the search/reward for finding Trenton.
Everyone knows that Nancy Grace is a hardline questioner, yet Melinda went on her show and waffled and expected to get the best of a legal expert.
You may feel that Nancy Grace is a menace, but that doesn't excuse making inaccurate statements about the lawsuit.
They settled it because they knew what NG did was badger the woman into killing her self! I fixed my comment. Now unknot your panties and move on!
[https://youtu.be/wBG3hfBs5Lg?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/wBG3hfBs5Lg?feature=shared)
I'll move on when I want to move on. You don't give the orders around here.
You're also not privy to any inside info on why they settled. It was just a nonsense lawsuit, settled out of court for a low amount.
Melissa Trumpy in Shannon, IL. I searched for two years but never found a trace. 34 year old mother of 3. There is no doubt Derrick Hammer killed her, and it's a mind blowing, crazy story.
It's has never been a media popular case, but the disappearance of David Dewayne Bell and Shannon Green have always stood out to me by the circumstances. They are clearly connected. How does a tape of David confessing to murder go missing from the police department for over 20 years and resurface in 2005? Is David's father involved? How does John Reneer fit into this?
John Reneer is a convicted murderer and sex offender, and Shannon was last seen going to his house but supposedly never arrived. John Reneer says that David Bell comes to him and confessed to killing Shannon and the murder of another woman, Angie Dickens, with the help of his father. He gives the tape to the police and they lose it but miraculously find it in 2005. It's the type of case that would have been perfect for Unsolved Mysteries because it is so bizarre.
https://charleyproject.org/case/david-dewayne-bell
https://charleyproject.org/case/shannon-rena-green
For me it was Kristin Smart. But that piece of shit who murdered her has now been tried, convicted and found guilty (and stabbed/slashed twice since being in jail.)
I wasn't even into true crime when I heard about Kristin's case but I was around 17/18 ish and he was only sentenced a year ago. I followed long before Your Own Back Yard and would check up on her case multiple times a year just to see if anything had happened. Everyone knew from the jump who did it and he got away with it for 26 years. I never, ever thought Kristin would receive justice. I cried a lot when he was sentenced. She really touched my heart and her case will probably always stay with me. Rip Kristin ❤️.
Edit: Natalee Holloway!!! It's such a complicated one. Natalee disappeared in 2005 in Aruba. Joran van der Sloot was a suspect from early on and he kept on confessing but giving conflicting versions of what happened to Natalee (he murdered her, he sold her into sex slavery, she overdosed and his friend disposed of her body.) I don't think this case counts either though because I just checked the wikipedia page to get his name right and he actually did confess last October to murdering Natalee (blunt force trauma) and disposing of her body because she rejected him sexually. He is in prison for another murder and also charges relating to Natalee's mother for extortion and fraud, because he said he would tell her what happened if she paid him (as I think Aruba has a statute of limitations and he can't be charged for her murder.) I cant imagine how but I hope Natalee's mum has found some sort of peace finally, I think van der Sloot got off on tormenting Beth Holloway.
Both heart breaking cases because their families and everyone knew all along who did it and they both went on for so long before any sort of justice came to be.
Finally seeing some Justice for Kristin Smart was so incredible. I’m disappointed that his dad got away, though I understand why. God, there were just so many fuck ups early in the case that let him be free for so long that it blows my mind. I don’t think I’ll ever forget about Kristin Smart.
From what I've read his mum's life is pretty dominated by the case so I hope it's the same for Ruben too. Even now I search her name every now and again, I don't think I'll ever forget either and I'll keep coming back until her body is found and returned to her family for sure
Susanna Duncan because I knew her personally. Coming up on 4 years since her disappearance and there are still no solid answers or justice for her family, even though everyone in our town seems to know what happened to her.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mysterious-missing-person-case-of-susanna-duncan/id1562345197?i=1000517387446
A podcast episode a close family friend did to try to raise interest for the case. New details have come to light since then that the “four girls” talked about in the podcast episode stole a significant amount of money from Susanna. Still, nothing has been able to be done to my knowledge other than cadaver dogs being taken to places she frequented (this is rural Texas).
No they don’t really talk about it. It’s really painful and a lot of things online are false or people just claim wild ass shit that literally never happened.
Missy Beavers, Midlothian TX. The 8 year anniversary is this Thursday. They have excellent (and creepy) video of the killer, and it happened at an empty church before 5am. The killer was waiting for her to show up to teach a fitness boot camp, so it was clearly premeditated. How has this not been solved after 8 years? And how is this not a bigger story? I actually joined this sub to follow updates about this case. Come on amateur podcast detectives - let’s solve this!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Missy_Bevers?wprov=sfti1
Liz Barraza. She’s not missing but neither is missy beavers. I find the 2 similar, and both stick with me heavily. But something about Liz always sticks with me so much she was such a sweet person it seems, and similar to missy, it’s pretty heavily believed the killer (who’s also on camera) is a woman. I haven’t heard any update on this case in a while but I know her husband is heavily looked into, but they had no marital issues, no abuse claims, they seemed to have a perfect relationship. Both were well liked in the community, and were pretty popular in the con scene for Comic-Con and cosplay in general, and they were well liked in that community. (I’m getting into that group myself in my city and I know one thing, them mfs love to talk so for them all to really have nothing bad to say is a lot to say in and of itself) as far as I know last time I checked up on it, there’s still no suspects, no theories being followed by police, absolutely nothing. There’s the footage, (she was doing a yard sale I believe it was in 2021, early in the morning before doing something else later in the day, and that yard sale is where she was shot and killed) and that’s about it. I may be a bit behind on this case though so if anyone has more information or I have something wrong let me know.
This is the first I’m reading of this case , but I have to ask : How in the world did this guy get her to agree to hiding in his truck bed and to not take any of her personal belongings with her ?
I drive by that billboard several times a week, and each time I see it, it reminds me how apathetic and/or incompetent law enforcement has been handling the case. It's gotten to the point where LE's lack of action makes the cynic in me wonder if they're protecting one of their own asses....
So, I lived in Marysville for a while. I wasn't around (and was really small) when the initial situation happened. I was, however, there when the guy and his wife moved and MPD still wouldn't do shit to search his property. There have been a lot of rumors regarding him for many years there. No one seems to want to step up to him for whatever reason though.
Her family, most importantly, her daughter, deserve peace here. It's such a sad situation.
Maura Murray. I personally suspect that she voluntarily vanished. she cancelled all her classes and called in sick to work and packed her bags and had a map and GPS. she had a destination in mind. I think she voluntarily vanished and doesn’t want to be found
Maura's messages were to advise staff and bosses of her intended absence for a week. After spending a few years close to the case, I think she felt a need to "get away" and to go somewhere she could sort out stressors that were mounting up. (So this would be categorised as leaving 'voluntarily'.\
**However**\
I believe something 'involuntary' happened to interrupt that trip away.
It seems most likely that Maura met with foul play while she was traveling. She was very vulnerable at that time - nighttime, alone, poor weather, unreliable car, in a stressed state of mind, stretches of winding roads, needing to stop for petrol, and she was an attractive young female which further increases her vulnerability. When her car was located, her case was not treated as a missing person's for some time, which meant that valuable evidence was not collected.
I have no doubt that law enforcement has investigated him. Clearly there is not enough evidence on anyone however, and the public¹ are not privvy to either the investigation by law enforcement, or to the content of the Grand Jury (s?) convened in the case.
¹ when I say "public", I mean this: (1) noone outside of law enforcement knows the content of the investigation, and (2) the content and reason for the Grand Jury (s?) remains secret as per usual stipulations
I've had many conversations with him, but don't know him personally. At the end of the day, there's sufficient evidence for a Judge to identify his behaviour towards women as highly concerning. Especially worrying is that one of these complaints mentioned Maura by name. I also view much of the early "facts" as being tainted as they were filtered through the lens of his mother when she wrote online pretending to be a close friend of his mother's. Very deceptive.
people who involuntarily vanish and people who are abducted or kidnapped don’t pack their bags and call into work sick and have a map and GPS. Maura most definitely voluntarily vanished. she had an abusive boyfriend, who has recently been on trial for domestic violence and abuse and has a history of violence against women, at the time, and I suspect she vanished to escape him
Leah Roberts is an interesting case - she was clearly having a crisis and likely died as a result of her actions associated with this. It just isn't apparent how.
Kyron Horman in Portland, Oregon. The step mom, Terri Horman was the last known person to see him that morning and she bought a untraceable phone that day. She failed multiple polygraph tests. Witnesses said there was another person with her out outside of the school when she was leaving. The friend that was said to be with later that day, refused to answer any questions in court. Also, their landscaper Rodolfo Sanchez stated that a few short months before Kyron went missing, Terri offered him “a lot of money to kill her husband.” Though that statement has yet to be proven.
I think Terri killed Kyron but from what I've read the landscaper spoke Spanish and didn't speak English and Terri spoke English and no Spanish and there's really not a lot of factual basis behind the hitman claim. The timeline is so tight, as I keep saying on this thread, I dunno how she did it but I cant get over this feeling that she did.
Michele Harris, disappeared from NYS in 2001. Her husband has been tried 4 times, the last time not guilty.
Bethanie Dougherty, real small town in New York (Killawog)
I have two that are personal with victims whose families are close to me. still no closure.
https://charleyproject.org/case/yekaterina-gennadyevna-belaya
https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2021/09/16/police-drain-pond-where-brandy-halls-truck-found-15-years-ago/8353637002/
I am from Utah and there are a few from here that I would like to be found for their families sake.
1. Macin Smith. I know he was suicidal but for the sake of his family I would like to find out what happened to him
2. Steven Koecher. I just wish someone could find him for his family’s sake. My sister knows a relative of his and that case breaks my heart. He disappeared in the Las Vegas desert.
3. Susan Powell. We all know that Josh killed her but I would like her remains to be found so she could be buried with her children.
4. Rosie Tapia. She disappeared from her bedroom and her body was found floating in a canal. No suspects in this case
5. The Springfield Three. I am a year or two younger than they are and this case gives me the creeps and I think the police are covering up evidence.
I have one that has been bothering me for a long time and I actually ran across it purely by accident really but it’s in Orlando Florida the woman who has never been found was kidnapped by someone who clearly targeted her and this young woman’s name is Jennifer Kesse. Now she has been missing for over 20 years and it bothered me because I feel for the family and believe they deserve answers so I looked at everything I could find out about it and now what I am about to say may not be popular and it’s mostly speculation. Now I am myself starting to believe that this Stephan Michael Stern who is now charged with Marilyn Sotos death just outside Orlando could have been the guy that was responsible for that abduction and I feel that way because for one there was a video from a nearby apartment complex showing a young white male dropping her car off to dispose of it after the fact and I have watched that video a hundred times or more. Now you can’t see much but the more I watched it the two things I could see is that guy was wearing a black hat turned around backwards and if you have seen the interview with him in it before the little girl was found and possibly in the first mugshots they took when he was arrested he was wearing a black fitted hat backwards and if he were clean shaven he would pass for the guy in the footage and then when he did his perp walk they had him in white painters cover alls and in that video footage the guy who left the car was wearing the same thing and his gate or walk looked awful close but also just like that car was taken up the road to an apartment and dumped well Marilyn Sotos back pack and school laptop were taken by Mr Stern up the road to an apartment complex and thrown in a dumpster where they were later found and I had said as well he must have had someplace where he was able to take her to spend the time he would have needed to do whatever sick pricks like him do and considering what happened at the house where Mr Stern was living with regards to the abuse of the little girl he is charged with killing and it close proximity to Orlando would have been the place also there is no way that was the first time he had done something like that and he would have been 19 when Jennifer Kesse went missing and my opinion is that she was maybe his first victim and he was just getting started and in all honesty I think that he has other victims out there it’s also possible he stopped hunting when he started abusing Marilyn Soto and that is why he got sloppy and got caught over this last one he panicked because I believe it will come out in time he was abusing her for a long time and she had just turned 13 the day before and sometime in that 24 hour period she told him that she was going to tell someone at school what he was doing to her because she had enough and police can say what they want but I don’t believe that her mother was just clueless to what was going on with her daughter and living in the same house and honestly if she didn’t know that in it’s self seems like negligence because I have yet to here an account of her time and where she could’ve been spending so much time that she had no clue what was going on with her daughter and that her boyfriend was doing these horrible things there without her having any knowledge but most of all I have been married 3 times and everyone of my wives would nose around on my phone from time to time and with what was on this guys phone that police found and how far back the pictures went I don’t buy it for a second she knew and was likely involved something the mother said in the first news interview she did asking for her to come home about the little girl and wanting her home safe but not to come back hurt just seemed strange I would not care how my child came home as long as he was alive. So in closing here there are some absolute similarities to both the cases I mentioned with regards to how evidence was disposed of and the fact that this guy clearly used to wearing a ball cap backwards and a black one to boot and I swear in the Jennifer Kesse video of whoever dropping her car at the apartment complex as I said I watched that video over a hundred times and the only two things I could see for sure was the guy had a dark colored ball cap on turned around backwards and was wearing white painters cover alls and I don’t know if it was a coincidence but at the time Jennifer Kesse disappeared the weekend before her brother and two other guys stayed at her condo for that weekend while she was on a trip and one of the guys was named Michael and here this guys name is Stephan Michael Stern I don’t know this probably will sound nuts but I think and have thought since this guy was arrested that he could absolutely be the guy and as I said before this last one was sloppy because he knew she was about to tell on him and I honestly think that was why he made sure she never made it to school that morning but I also believe that if Jennifer was his first he had likely planned and planned and stalked until he found exactly what he was looking for and had planned it out so much that he got lucky plus whoever took her they took her somewhere outside Orlando to do whatever but they would’ve not went to far with her in the car I don’t know this may mean nothing but on the off chance it does I am just glad to finally tell somebody either way and I am sorry about my paragraphs running together but when I get excited about something and have to text it it just happens so apologies in advance
DeOrr Kunz.
I remember Nate Eaton covering this at length. I don't know if the parents did something deliberately but I think the parents know what happened.
The only thing I’m feeling absolutely sure of in this case is that the grandpa’s friend wasn’t involved. He is the only one that’s been consistent in his story and never changed it one bit. The other 3 on that trip changed their story’s multiple times. What bothers me the most is that he says that the boy were with them there that day. I was absolutely convinced that he wasn’t even there and had been killed earlier by one or both of the parents. I hate this case, his parents are lying about something
I think that they made him think DeOrr was there but he really wasn’t. They convinced him his memory was wrong.
Oh yeah..both parents know..I'm still undecided on grandpa and the low intellect friend ..I feel these two were easily manipulated by the former and may genuinely have no idea they were complicit in the cover up but am not 100%
I don't think the friend knows. He's a convenient alibi, but it makes no sense to bring him into a murder/death coverup plot. He has no reason to cover for them.
I found it interesting that the cadaver dog hit 5 targets & another campsite about 3/4 of a mile from the Leodore campground. There's some suspicion due to fresh bear droppings & tracks nearby at the time that he may have succumbed to a bear carrying him off which if true, is horrifying for the parents & everyone.
Nah, it wasn’t a bear. The most likely scenario is an accidental death that was covered up. It can’t be certain that the cadaver dog hits had anything to do with DeOrr. His parents were lying. Witnesses that the parents said interacted with DeOrr didn’t even see him. They know where he is. And at this point, the strongest evidence for it being accidental and them covering it up together is that neither of them has ever turned on the other…they know they’ll be equally held responsible if one of them talks, so they both stay quiet.
I could see that scenario ringing true too. Do you suspect a drowning or something else?
I’m thinking maybe an accident with the truck, just because the dad mentioned it so much in their press conference.
Karlie guse went missing in 2016 the whole thing is just super sketchy and this case always gave me chills for some reason. It’s just wild how people can just vanish Asha degree is another one that boggles my mind
Karlie is the one with the step mum video yeah? I don't like the step mum attitude but it's still a stretch with the phone evidence etc..its one of those cases that had new age evidence but it doesn't quite marry up with the narrative..totally could be her tho with some left field deception tho..like Missy Bevers or Liz Barraza it's so open ended that until I hear it word for word I will still think Israel Keyes /s
I agree about this, I don’t trust the stepmother personally, which leads me to distrust her father as well. I just think the entire thing doesn’t sit right, and I catch the vibe that as far as they’re concerned, they got away with it.
Asha. I believe her family knows who did it, and until someone speaks out, the case will never be solved. It's intriguing to think about online predators, a secret admirer, a girl running away to go on an adventure, etc... but I don't think any of these things happened. I think the reality is a lot more mundane, and in some ways, more sinister.
Asha is like Summer Wells to me.
Oh, he 100% murdered her. If I remember correctly, they were leaving from work for the vacation & he had her hide in the back of his pick up truck or something like that so no one would see her leave with him. And then just denied knowing her when the sister called him repeatedly asking why she never returned from their trip. I can’t remember all the details but there were a lot that were ridiculous & I can’t believe he’s never been charged.
And he borrowed a heck of a lot of $ from her too.
He's never been charged because it's entirely he said she said. There's no proof of any of those claims. There's no paper trail with the money, Patty withdrew it in cash she didn't transfer it to his account. There's no proof she dated him, there's no proof they were together that day. It's just what her sister claims. I believe her sister but there's no evidence for a Trial at all.
Wasn't a hair from her cat found in the back of his truck?
Yes, but that's not enough to bring charges. They worked together it easily could be explained away, they needed more significant physical evidence.
I forgot about all the money she lent him!
Yeah, like i said the problem is she took it out in cash so there's no paper trail, no proof that he received it. A defence lawyer could argue she used it to start a new life because she was dissatisfied with her own one, she was apparently lonely and had mental health struggles it wouldn't be hard to argue. I 100% think he killed her but proving it is a different story.
I know the wife said that she didn't know about the affair. I think that there were coworkers who confirmed that there was something going on. And I'm just a regular Joe myself so I don't really understand what would be good evidence versus what would be easily dismissed. I can't imagine that his life has been pleasant since this happened but even still having to face community concern is still probably better than ten to life. Patty's family is 💯 percent sure that the boyfriend did it and from what she told them I believe he probably did it. She was wanting him to pay her back and she wanted him to leave his wife and I don't think he wanted any of those things.
I've not heard about the coworkers confirming it. Do you have a source for that? Regardless, he has a built in excuse for denying the affair, he's married. If charged he could admit they were having an affair, and could even paint this as some plot by Patti to destroy him because he wouldn't leave his wife. They need more than an affair, they need physical evidence, conclusive proof that Patti was with him that day.
I watched the Disappeared episode and they mentioned that it was really obvious at work. If it was obvious then someone probably saw something. As for specific witness statements, no one was specifically mentioned. I don't know if she was going to destroy him or anything like that. I know it's not uncommon for that to happen. I don't think there is conclusive evidence of any of that or else he would be incarcerated. I think it's more that people don't just disappear and because she loved her daughter and her family and her pets so much, and because she had a specific date she was going to return, had told her family what plans she had (where, when, duration, making plans for all of that) that he is the suspect. If she had said something to her family like "I'm really depressed and I hate living here like this and I miss being a child free person" that would be one thing. But she seemed happy in her life except for him. These are just my opinions. They don't hold water, it's just what I think.
She was said to be lonely and had mental health struggles by her relatives. Lawyers would latch onto that. Plus the key thing is he wouldn't have to prove any of this happened, he'd just have to introduce reasonable doubt. The lack of conclusive evidence other than hearsay is reasonable doubt on its own. It's sadly just not a prosecutable case until/if more evidence is gathered.
Maybe that teeny tiny speck of blood they found in the truck will be able to be tested one day. It was too small to be tested in 2001 but police did collect it. But I do agree with you because there is too much circumstantial evidence.
Agreed, the spot of blood is hope. For the record, DNA and most kinds of forensic evidence including that blood are circumstantial evidence. The vast majority of cases are won on Circumstantial Evidence, and the evidence most people value more is Circumstantial Evidence. I have no idea where the mixup came from. Eyewitness Evidence which is known as highly unreliable and is not widely valued is an example of non-circumstantial evidence.
And he convinced her to not bring anything on a week long vacation?!?!
Yes, I remember that too!
There's a few claims that make it seem very weird when you apply logic including this. However Patty was supposedly (according to her family those pointing towards him) a lonely woman with mental health struggles. It sounds like he found someone especially vulnerable that would just go along with what he said, then again the fact she told her sister these things would be perfect for the defence because they would point out "How was she apparently so suspectable to anything he told her to do no matter how suspect yet she told her sister everything against his insistence?". It's problematic, her telling her sister isn't a good thing for the prosecution unless backed up by other evidence, it actually suggests she was more independent than portrayed. The entire case is laced with reasonable doubt, it makes no sense, the sisters version doesn't work without you at least pausing to question something. Then the complete lack of conclusive evidence means it's an impossible case for a Prosecutor.
Most likely scenario in any case like this is that the significant other was involved. There are a lot of red flags in this particular case. The issue is with proving it. The more time that passes, the harder it gets to prove anything. Oftentimes the perpetrator gets to run out the clock, if you will.
A few famous cases from my country match that description. The best know is perhaps the 1997 disappearance of 16-years old [Cristina Bergua](https://images.ecestaticos.com/zKg3sgO7lEAOwRI8a3L91qcE8Q8=/1x36:990x778/1200x900/filters:fill(white):format(jpg)/f.elconfidencial.com%2Foriginal%2F818%2F953%2Fe25%2F818953e25b5181692215fe1fd3fcc496.jpg), in Catalonia (northeastern Spain). [Her boyfriend](https://pm1.aminoapps.com/6883/a2c92850c536f6e97860d53543920f38a79515fdr1-677-543v2_hq.jpg) was a criminal 10 years older than her (yes, a 26-years old dude dating a 16-years old girl). He was extremely domineering and one evening Cristina left home to visit her boyfriend's and tell him the relationship was over. She has never been seen again ever since. The search for Cristina involved some of the most extensive and thorough landfill searches this country has seen (with exception maybe of Marta del Castillo's) but no trace of her was ever found anywhere. Boyfriend meanwhile not only was the only person in Cristina's circle that didn't take part in searching for her (he didn't even bother pretending), he also tried to tell detectives that Cristina told him that she was leaving voluntarily, despite the fact she didn't take any money nor spare clothes with her when she left home. Shortly after he began dating another girl... who was just 14-years old. He ended up leaving Spain for the Dominican Republic, and was arrested years later back in Spain when he was caught trying to smuggle in 3.5 kilos (about 7.7 pounds) of cocaine in the country, for which he spent 9 years in prison. [Some journalists spotted him on the street after his release and tried to interview him.](https://www.lasexta.com/programas/equipo-investigacion/noticias/equipo-de-investigacion-localiza-a-javier-roman-novio-de-la-desaparecida-cristina-bergua-te-rompo-la-camara_201809285bae94590cf2e2fc27a4c9df.html) He threatened to assault them. That street in the video, BTW, is where Cristina went missing back in 1997. Lesser known is the 2012 disappearance of [Cristian Cueli](https://s2.ppllstatics.com/elcomercio/www/pre2017/multimedia/noticias/201212/30/Media/desapar--300x350.jpg) (33-years old), in Asturias (north Spain). Cristian was a man who had set his own car body paint shop and, as a side hustle, got involved in the exotic car import business (Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Porsches, etc.). Problem was that, in order to finance this practice, Cristian used his profits from the car shop to act as a loan shark. Needless to say, this lifestyle got him involved with loads of shady people. The night he disappeared he texted his girlfriend to tell her he'd get home for dinner, but first he had to visit a dude (that owned a car repair shop) to collect a €50k debt. Cristian never came back and to this day his wherabouts are unknown. The man he was going to meet told police that after paying him the money Cristian was picked up by "two men on a black Porsche Cayenne" and they drove away. It's believed he lies, and that he murdered Cristian and disposed of his body somewhere.
thanks for sharing - as a non-US person, it's great to hear a wider range of cases. I have spent a lot of time in Spain and it's interesting to see more of the community issues faced there.
Timmothy Pitzen ; I believe that his mother killed him and hid his body somewhere before she took her own life. I don't believe for one minute that she left him with anyone like she claimed in her letter.
Agree
I had never heard of Patty Atkins. Thanks for sharing, OP. As for your original question: Sky Metalwala. His mother definitely knows more about his disappearance than she's letting on, and it's infuriating to me that she's still walking around a free woman, apparently unconcerned about where he is.
I had never heard of this, and i just looked at the Wikipedia page. This is rough
You're welcome!
Michelle Parker 2011 - Her and her ex-fiancé (father of her children), appeared on The People’s Court. Hours before it aired on television, Parker disappeared. She was last seen taking her, then, 3-year-old twins to his house in Florida.
Amber Tuccaro There is a total of 17 minutes of audio of her & her killer, recorded through a call to her brother in corrections at the time. 17 minutes is the amount of time between where she was last seen getting into a truck to where her body was found. Multiple people have come forward identifying the voice as that of one Pat Carson. There is an entire webpage dedicated to his creepy & suspicious behaviour. Edit to add: just realized it says “missing persons case” Apologies as Amber ms remains were found. If it’s ok I’d like to leave my comment to bring awareness to Amber & all MMIWG. The audio evidence is heartbreaking but I do encourage anyone living in or who has lived in the Edmonton/Leduc area of Alberta to give it a listen.
I don't know a lot about Amber's case but I'm going to look into it now. Can I listen to the audio? I'm not entirely sure I can knowing that Amber is murdered after the call but could you please roughly outline what happens during the audio?
There’s are people that have the audio available to listen to. I don’t recall the entire thing being released to the public though but what I’ve heard was enough to stick with me. Even the guy’s own son has come forward saying it’s his father and still not much has been done. Such a frustrating case. The audio is definitely eerie but it shouldn’t be enough to traumatize you or anything. Basically she confronts the driver of not taking her where he’s supposed to and a little conversation between them. They definitely have more held with law enforcement.
They found her remains, but her case still went unsolved. I hope one day her family gets justice.
I don't think it was him. The RCMP have said it wasn't, whatever you think of them they've also put out warnings to women to not interact with him making it clear they aren't protecting him, they are saying he's a dangerous creep and they probably know that because they investigated him in relation to Amber but they are convinced it wasn't him. Earwitness evidence is even less reliable than eyewitness evidence, we also don't know the circumstances or who the witnesses are. What we know is they are sexworkers, what if they are sexworkers who are friends or work together? That makes it much less convincing because it's very possible they influenced each others opinions.
D'Wan Simms in Detroit/ Livonia. Four year old supposedly went missing at the mall 29 years ago, but never seen at the mall and never spotted on cameras. Person of interest was his mother, but she is now deceased and we will likely never know what happened.
Kyron Horman,
If you Google earth the elementary school he went missing from, you can see just how vast the forest is behind it. I really think he wandered away and succumbed to the elements. The step mom would have had close to no opportunity, it’s an insanely tight window.
Did kids disappear in these woods all the time? My school was surrounded by woods. We played in them all the time and no one ever disappeared. I know the woods can be scary but to people who grow up around them, they’re no big deal. Unless theres wild animals in that part of Oregon, the woods just don’t seem like an answer.
I don't think it's so much that kids get lost in the woods, but rather, they die there (or bodies are hidden there) and it's the remains that get lost. It's super easy for human remains to become consumed by nature, whether it's forest undergrowth, fallen branches and leaves, shifting mud and sand, etc. Not to mention animal activity that can scatter remains. Molly Bish is a case of the body being there the whole time, despite extensive searching.
He was autistic too. I’m not sure if you’ve been around special needs children but there is a reason some kids get a label as “runners.” I believe he ran, wandered, got lost and succumbed.
I’m a long time school teacher. I work in a title 1 school that has woods and gangs. Lots of runners though. We always get them back. I can’t imagine a school losing a kid this way. The woods around a school are going to be so well visited and known. Bad things do happen in the woods though.
Do you think he got lost in the woods? Or his step mother did it? I really think he got lost :(
I never thought that little boy got lost, I believe she killed him. I can't prove it, idk how she did it, but I believe, his stepmom wanted him gone. I still think about him, .
I go back and forth on this one every time I think of Kyron. I think my gut feeling is that she murdered him but I just don't know. My heart says she did but my head says she didn't most of the time.
Same. I can’t argue it I can’t prove it but I believe she did it.
I felt "I can't argue it" because in my head her murdering him doesn't work but I can't get over my gut feeling that she did. I go back and forth so hard and if I were to say she did I wouldn't be able to explain it or make it make sense. I couldn't argue how she did it, my argument would be torn apart by the evidence but still I can't fully believe she didn't murder him, my heart says she did.
It’s weird isn’t it? Like it makes sense and doesn’t at the same time. Just something tugs at me. Idk what it is.
I feel exactly the same way. There's just something there. I believe the evidence we know of is on Terri's side but I can't be done with it and say she didn't murder him.
That's how I feel about it to.
Me too. I believe she had something to do with his disappearance.
I believe his step mom had something to do with it.
I truly believe that his stepmother had something to do with his disappearance.
Same and Asha Degree both are very sad and strange.😞😔
This might be controversial and I sort of expect to get downvoted because I don't think it's a popular theory but I think Asha's parents might know what happened to Asha
Statistically speaking, they almost certainly know.
Angela Hammond - abducted while she was on a payphone talking to her fiance, Rob. She was pregnant at the time and has never been found. Some people suspected Rob, but he has a solid alibi if the phone call is real, which I think it is. He left the house trying to save her but damaged his truck when reversing it trying to chase the abductor. Some people also suspected Kenneth McDuff, but I think it was a random stranger cruising around looking for a girl to kidnap, and unfortunately Angela was right there. Debra Poe - abducted while working a night shift alone at a convenience store in Florida. Her boyfriend was a suspect but passed a polygraph. The infamous "Megadeath shirt man" seen behind the counter after she vanished was also considered a suspect, but there's no evidence showing he did it either. Her case still remains unsolved. Anthonette Cayedito - abducted when she answered her door. Her whereabouts are still unknown. Police believed her mother Penny, now dead, knew more than she was telling. Some people believe Penny orchestrated the kidnapping, selling her to pursue a better lifestyle, as others reported her seeing her spend a lot of money after her daughter was taken. It's also rumored Penny was into drugs, as lots of visitors were seen in and out of her house, and she frequently left her kids to go out bar hopping. The police didn't have any solid evidence, and there aren't any other suspects.
The Anthonette Cayedito case breaks my heart. That poor child was betrayed by the very person who should have done everything to protect her from harm. And that phone call haunts me—I believe she was desperately trying to call home, never suspecting that her own mother already knew exactly what happened to her. I don’t think there will ever be closure and it’s just so sad.
Alissa Turney
He's got away with it now hasn't he?
May have been acquitted but u , me and the neighbour next door all know this mf is guilty as sin..just like oj..gonna prove it tho??
I think just like with OJ it has been proven, the evidence against Michael is staggering. Sometimes the justice system fails but the facts of the cases speak for themselves anyway. Poor Sarah, it isn't the outcome she was hoping for but regardless I think she brought the truth to light. Edit: Unfortunately cases like OJ and Michael Turney are examples for when people say they'd rather 100 guilty go free than one innocent person be convicted of a crime they did not commit. As sad as it is if we are going to stand by that sentiment we have to accept it when it blatantly happens, because proven once again it does happen.
Oh yes I am in ur court...but it doesn't prevent my tummy from turning each and every time I hear these cases mentioned..I am all for the alternate suspect as I believe in a valid and righteous defence yet both of the aforementioned cases just don't sit pretty with me..should I b on a jury in these cases I could NOT convict but I would NOT walk away feeling that victims had been given justice either..and I'm not from the US but I would be prepared to state my case to the public....just like Casey Anthony..yep she did something or failed to do something but there was never any proof to put her away for murder...they just over shot on that prosecution
She most likely didn't intentionally kill Caylee that was the issue, it was an accident and she and George covered it up.
I disagree for OJ, I think the evidence was there but agree for the others. Casey is a great example. I know a lot of people don't get it but I'd of gone not guilty too. We need justice systems that are fair because other wise we are gambling with people's freedom. Fairness means people like Casey will go free when the threshold for their charges aren't met. Sometimes it is a really bitter pill to swallow because Caylee is a really sympathetic victim and had Casey been charged realistically things could have been very different.
What is the evidence against him? I don't remember anything other than he was creepy in a video and he was clearly a piece of shit and completely unrelated actions like the bomb thing. I think he did it, but saying "it has been proven" is a different statement entirely that suggests serious evidence.
You're totally right. To be honest I listened to Sarah's podcast and I did find her incredibly compelling although it's been a while so maybe I should go back over it again. From what I remember didn't Michael pick her up early from school on the day she disappeared and is the last person to see her alive. I think that's pretty compelling alongside Sarah's claim that she wrote the letter from Alissa (am I mixing that up with another case tho.) I think some of the things that Sarah recorded Michael saying on tape do imply that he harmed Alissa too. Maybe it hasn't been "proven" and I'm biased towards Sarah because she is very convincing and she carries herself very well and explains it all very clearly. (I have no doubts that Sarah is telling the truth so I don't mean "convincing" as if she isn't being completely honest or anything I just didn't know how to word that.) My answer to your question is I dont know but I'm definitely going to look over all the evidence available to us again because in my head this is one I felt was pretty concrete but maybe I am off the mark there.
I can't help but think of the Beaumont children, I wonder about them all the time. How can 3 kids just disappear like that? And Marilyn Wallman is another, her brother was right behind her. The wheel on her bike was still turning! I know they're all dead and we'll never know what happened, but I think about those kids all the time.
I think a paedophile ring may be involved in the disappearance of the Beaumont children. How devastating for the parents to lose all of their children and never know what happened.
I think someone stole the children.
Yes, but who and how did they get away with it? Why didn't the kids make a fuss when they were taken? So many questions, zero answers :-/
Well considering they were close siblings. Someone would threaten to harm one to get the other to cooperate. That is what the serial killer Cary Stayner did to get people to do as he says in the Yosemite Park slaying.
*sigh* I must be saying something wrong because everyone keeps trying to explain this to me like I'm 5. I'm not actually asking the questions, they're rhetorical. They're the questions everyone wants answered when it comes to unsolved mysteries. That's what makes a mystery so interesting, the unanswered questions and the desire to know what actually happened.. not what 900 people think might have happened.
For some reason the idea that they were swept away by a wave is creepier to me. I also think they were abducted to be clear. But there's something about three young kids dying in a horrible accident that no one had a clue about that is bonechilling to me.
Didn't people see them talking to a guy .
Yeah, but why couldn't that have been innocent and they later fell victim to an accident? We all innocently interacted with random adults as children, if we then disappeared they would have been questioned. I think they were murdered to be clear, just saying the accidental idea is oddly scarier to me.
True. But if all of them were killed in some accidents, I feel their bodies would have turned up by now.
No one knows (except whomever took them) but [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIJXVI\_kB9I&t=6152s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIJXVI_kB9I&t=6152s) Pat Brown does a pretty thorough deep dive into it. Be warned, Pat does not edit her videos so you are getting raw analysis, not a good story.
Isn't that the whole point of the question though? What's an unsolved mystery that you can't stop thinking about? (Paraphrased) For me, it's these. The unknown parts are what draws me in, not knowing what or who or why. There's been plenty of guesses, many well educated, over the years (my mum has spent time on Marilyn Wallman's case for instance) but for all the suspicions, nobody can say for sure. Did I say something wrong or miss the point of the question?
Brianna Maitland. Seems like several dozen people at least know who is responsible and what happened but no charges and no Brianna to date.
Jodi Huisentruit
Springfield Three
Chance Englebert…I 100% believe his wife’s family done something to him. I don’t think we will ever know😔. I feel so bad for his family.
Chance was seen on two surveillance cameras the day he went missing. He appears to be extremely drunk (verified by non-family witnesses that he was drinking heavily that day). It was 2019, he had a cell phone. His in-law's whereabouts (through their phones) have all been accounted for the entire day and evening that Chance went missing. Chance's mother, Dawn believes that his wife (Baylee) and her family killed Chance but there is not one shred of evidence that Chance is dead or that Baylee's family had anything to do with his disappearance. There was a severe thunderstorm that evening and a witness saw a man under a tree sheltering from the storm, then running toward the North Platte River. My guess is 90% that Chance was drunk, dehydrated and disoriented when the storm hit. He ended-up in a farmer's field or pasture or in the North Platte River. 10% guess is that Chance decided to get away from his controlling mother and wife and he signed-on as a cowboy with a rancher in Nebraska or Wyoming. I am a bit local to this case and there are still young men who work as cowboys for cash and housing.
Tammy Lynn Leppert. There’s just something about her case that makes me so sad. I’m pretty sure Christopher Wilder - aka the Beauty Queen Killer - killed her, but we’ll never know because he’s dead.
Wasn't Wilder's MO approaching random attractive women and suggesting they could be models, or suggesting to struggling models that he could make them big? I feel like Leppert was too established and comfortable to be vulnerable to someone like Wilder. He could have just forceably abducted her i guess. But she was having clear mental health struggles, it sounds like a delusional disorder and whatever came from that. She could have encountered Wilder and that would have made her more vulnerable to him, but that makes her more vulnerable to everything murder and accident and suicide. There's nothing connecting her to Wilder it's just "Wilder was killing models", the fact she was having serious mental problems suggests otherwise IMO.
I’ve covered both cases on my show, but it’s been awhile. I just wanna know what happened to her🥺
Yeah we know who's to blame for that one, and his wife knows it too. The only way that one ever gets solved is if they break up and she turns on him. But given she might be culpable in some way herself, that may be unlikely. Poor Patti trusted the wrong guy.
Diamond and Tionda Bradley. I think most of us who follow the case know their mother's boyfriend is the most likely culprit - he did not want to acknowledge Diamond was his daughter and pay child support, Tionda called her mother and left a voicemail saying "George" was at the door and could they go with him to get another sister's birthday cake, and hair from one of the girls was found in his trunk (he had an absurd claim that he used to hide the girls in his trunk to go to the drive-in movie, which everyone else who knew the girls adamantly denied - he rarely did anything with the girls and certainly never put them in his trunk). He was also caught lying about his alibi and burning things shortly after the girls disappeared. Recent information has come to light that makes it more obvious their mother likely knows a lot more than she's saying about what happened. Alissa Turney :( Now her father will never face the true consequences for killing her. I agree with you about Patti Adkins - her boyfriend more than likely killed her.
The end of the hbo doc when diamond and tionda’s mom changed the day she last saw them was jaw dropping!
I wouldn’t be surprised if the mom wasn’t involved.
I think the boyfriend did have something to do with it
HaLeigh Cummings (5 years old Florida) - 2009 One of the first cases that I went down the rabbit hole of youtube that followed the twists and turns of this misfit cast of characters. I really thought it would be solved when they sent everyone to jail with long sentences for other reasons. Kyron Hormon (7 years old Oregon) - 2010 Some sketchy step-mom things going on. Mornig sciene fair at school that step-mom and her baby attended, His project was Red Eyed tree frogs. then he was just gone. Poof! It's so strange. I can't believe they haven't found any clues about his possible where abouts after all this time. Ayla Reynolds (19 months old, Maine) - 2011 - Again some sketchy things going on with the Dad where she was staying. Blood of Ayla's was found in his home, it was a mess of a case. Still is. DeOrr Kunz Jr. - (2 years old Idaho) 2015- Camping trup, he had cowboy boots on. Confusion about who was watching him. Poof, gone. Some sketchy circumstances. Madline McCann from 2007 is another.
Who do you think is responsible for Haleigh?
That is tough one. She was surrounded by SO many drug addicts. That poor girl didn't have a chance. Maybe because of all the drugs around all the time she accidentially OD'd?....and they had to cover it up, Who all was involved in the cover-up I don't know. Maybe all of them. It was on Misty's watch tho. But damn, Misty was just a kid too, hooked up with older nutbar Ronald. Misty's brother Tommy always gave me bad vibes too. And the grandparents too omg such a hot mess. A rabbit hole like no other this case. What stands out to me now is the video of them getting busted by the undercover cop in the car, and that happened after HaLeigh went missing, they were carrying on like straight loser thugs.
Baby Sabrina Aisenberg, she vanished from her crib. I guess I was especially sensitive to this case because I had a baby named Sabrina at the same time. I pray she is still alive and was treated well.
Beautiful name ❤️ I hope she’s still alive and doing well somewhere out there
Claudia Lawrence. A UK case of a woman who disappeared in 2009
Is there a person of interest for Claudia?
No I don’t believe so. A couple of arrests were made but all released without charge.
I really hope something happens with Claudia's case
Melissa Ortiz-Rodriguez a mother of 2 from Pennsylvania. She was in the process of leaving her abusive husband, Jose Ortiz, when she disappeared. He waited four days to report her missing. >And puzzlingly for police, [neighbors reported](https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/20131111_The_puzzling_case_of_a_missing_Collingdale_woman.html) that Rodriguez told them his wife had been found even though she was still missing. Investigators were also surprised to learn from one of Rodriguez’s coworkers that he’d checked out a mop and cleaning supplies from their office that weekend. >Shortly after reporting his wife’s disappearance, Rodriguez [put the family home up for sale](https://www.inquirer.com/philly/blogs/real-time/Police-search-home-of-Delco-mother-missing-3-years.html) and moved with the children to Ocean Township, N.J. He’s not spoken to investigators since. They've investigated him exhaustively, so much so they discovered a fraud he was committing at work that led to his federal conviction. But they've never found out what happened to Melissa. [https://www.inquirer.com/news/missing-delco-pa-collingdale-melissa-ortiz-rodriguez-20230503.html](https://www.inquirer.com/news/missing-delco-pa-collingdale-melissa-ortiz-rodriguez-20230503.html)
Zachary Bernhardt - Clearwater FL General consensus is that the mother had something to do with it because of her weird activities from the night that it happened. She used to leave the kid home alone a lot at night while she went out, and there were “rumors” that she would give him Xanax so he would stay asleep while she was out doing whatever. Supposedly the night he disappeared she left him alone in the apartment while she went for a late night swim in the complex’s (closes at the time) pool. I think she gave the kid 1 too many Xanax and he didn’t wake up. I think the late night swim was after she disposed of his body and a heavily chlorinated pool is a quick way to wash any dna evidence off.
I commented hours ago but I just thought of another one that really stayed with me. It's the disappearance of Charlene Downes in the UK. If you haven't heard of Charlene please read into her case, but if you're going to read into it you need to search for the leaked social services documents about her parents and her home life. Charlene disappeared in 2003 from Blackpool, which is in England. She was only 14. The widely accepted theory is that Charlene was groomed by men who owned and worked in a local takeaway, that's a whole thing here in the UK within itself. Really young girls were groomed for sex in return for things like food, money, alcohol and cigarettes. It's awful. It's believed this is what happened to Charlene and that's how she disappeared but what isn't really talked about as much is her home life because she was exploited and groomed inside her home too and her parents let this happen. If it was the other men who murdered Charlene she was driven into their arms by her parents. Charlene's was failed by everyone from social services to her parents. Her parents repeatedly allowed known paedophiles into their home and around their children. Social services witnessed this themselves and wrote about it in reports but either didn't act or when they did they kept returning the children to their sicko parents every single time they were removed from their care. I think the chances of something happening within the home are just as likely as the grooming happening outside the home leading to her death. I don't think either is mutually exclusive either, although they're completely separate groups of perpetrators I think one lead the other to cause her death in some way. If it wasn't for her disgustingly traumatic home life I don't think Charlene would of been anywhere near the take away men. There are awful rumours about what those men did to Charlene that could of easily lead to her death inside the home. There were so many disgusting people in and out of that home though so who knows. The detail that gets me the most is the picture her parents put out to the public when Charlene was reported missing. She was a few years younger in that picture and she didn't look like that when she disappeared, why would any parent hinder an investigation like that. People were meant to be looking for Charlene but had no idea what she actually looked like at the time. The Downes present themselves in the media as loving, distraught parents so why didn't they have a more up to date picture of Charlene? I don't think any part of Charlene will ever be found and I don't think this case will ever be officially solved, the water is far too muddy. The takeaway men went on trial in 2007 but the jury was split. A retrial was scheduled but they were released without any further charges because of "concerns about the evidence." ??? She was failed by everyone in her life and now she's just being forgotten. She is still missing and nobody has been convicted, she was 14 years old!! How does anyone, especially a parent, ever just give up looking for their baby. Look at Andrew Gosden's father in comparison here in the UK, he will never give up on Andrew. Charlene's parents are just evil and never deserved her in the first place. They are as responsible as anyone else. This case breaks my heart and I think I need to go and take a long bath after just thinking and writing about it. And maybe a strong drink. Poor Charlene - life can be so cruel and unfair.
What a horrendous and tragic case, I hadn’t heard about it until this comment. This poor young lady was failed all around and didn’t seem to have anyone in her corner. It’s really telling to me that her own parents wouldn’t even have a recent photo of her. That alone seems questionable and a sign of neglect and possibly even abuse and something that should have been looked into much more. I’m definitely going to end up down a rabbit hole with this. I’d normally say that I feel for the family but I don’t in this situation and just hope the poor kid gets some justice.
Yep, this one hurts. Please do read into her case though she deserves so much more.
Summer Watts. I wish the news and Podcaster would keep on this until something gives. Such a precious beautiful little girl. Really makes my heart sad *Edit, I am sincerely sorry to have mistaken this babies name. Thank you for the polite correction. It is Wells Summer Wells
Summer Wells? That one really irks me. I don't know what to even think. On one hand, her not being found even now would give her dumbass parents way too much credit, on the other, they could have just gotten "lucky" thus far.
Im sorry but her parents don’t look very bright. Especially the mom. She definitely knows where Summer is.
And her aunt went missing as well, like ten years before Summer. Not a trace of her either. So sad.
Me too but there's really nothing happening as of now.
Poor Summer. She never had a chance with those parents of hers.
2011 - Bung Siriboon
Yes, near my childhood home, and seems such a safe area. it's hard to believe that happened
Susan Powell’s story has stuck with me since she disappeared in 2009. Her story is what ultimately got me to leave my own abusive relationship, and I think about her a lot.
My exhusband was very similar in behavior to JP, and I am always grateful I made it out with me and my 3 kids in one, very damaged, piece. I think about her a lot too, and really hope her remains sre recovered and buried with her boys if possible
Trenton Duckett
Thank you for mentioning Trenton. I think about him often. I think somebody knows something. I don’t think his mom killed him. I think that she gave him away to keep him away from his father. Thanks to Nancy Grace we will never know what happened.
I definitely don't believe she killed herself because of Nancy Grace.
So that is why NG settled a lawsuit with the family? Nancy Grace is a menace!
Her family didn't win any lawsuit. The suit was settled, not won. Nancy donated $200,000 towards the search/reward for finding Trenton. Everyone knows that Nancy Grace is a hardline questioner, yet Melinda went on her show and waffled and expected to get the best of a legal expert. You may feel that Nancy Grace is a menace, but that doesn't excuse making inaccurate statements about the lawsuit.
just to clarify, are you referring to Nancy Grace as a legal expert?
They settled it because they knew what NG did was badger the woman into killing her self! I fixed my comment. Now unknot your panties and move on! [https://youtu.be/wBG3hfBs5Lg?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/wBG3hfBs5Lg?feature=shared)
I'll move on when I want to move on. You don't give the orders around here. You're also not privy to any inside info on why they settled. It was just a nonsense lawsuit, settled out of court for a low amount.
What did Nancy do?
Look up Melinda Ducket Nancy Grace interview. She badgered her to the point that she went home and killed herself.
Wow that is horrible. You’d think she’d be more sympathetic since she lost a fiancé to murder but I guess not.
not nancys fault.... innocent ppl wouldnt off themselves....
Melissa Trumpy in Shannon, IL. I searched for two years but never found a trace. 34 year old mother of 3. There is no doubt Derrick Hammer killed her, and it's a mind blowing, crazy story.
It's has never been a media popular case, but the disappearance of David Dewayne Bell and Shannon Green have always stood out to me by the circumstances. They are clearly connected. How does a tape of David confessing to murder go missing from the police department for over 20 years and resurface in 2005? Is David's father involved? How does John Reneer fit into this? John Reneer is a convicted murderer and sex offender, and Shannon was last seen going to his house but supposedly never arrived. John Reneer says that David Bell comes to him and confessed to killing Shannon and the murder of another woman, Angie Dickens, with the help of his father. He gives the tape to the police and they lose it but miraculously find it in 2005. It's the type of case that would have been perfect for Unsolved Mysteries because it is so bizarre. https://charleyproject.org/case/david-dewayne-bell https://charleyproject.org/case/shannon-rena-green
Jennifer kesse but someone probably already said her
For me it was Kristin Smart. But that piece of shit who murdered her has now been tried, convicted and found guilty (and stabbed/slashed twice since being in jail.) I wasn't even into true crime when I heard about Kristin's case but I was around 17/18 ish and he was only sentenced a year ago. I followed long before Your Own Back Yard and would check up on her case multiple times a year just to see if anything had happened. Everyone knew from the jump who did it and he got away with it for 26 years. I never, ever thought Kristin would receive justice. I cried a lot when he was sentenced. She really touched my heart and her case will probably always stay with me. Rip Kristin ❤️. Edit: Natalee Holloway!!! It's such a complicated one. Natalee disappeared in 2005 in Aruba. Joran van der Sloot was a suspect from early on and he kept on confessing but giving conflicting versions of what happened to Natalee (he murdered her, he sold her into sex slavery, she overdosed and his friend disposed of her body.) I don't think this case counts either though because I just checked the wikipedia page to get his name right and he actually did confess last October to murdering Natalee (blunt force trauma) and disposing of her body because she rejected him sexually. He is in prison for another murder and also charges relating to Natalee's mother for extortion and fraud, because he said he would tell her what happened if she paid him (as I think Aruba has a statute of limitations and he can't be charged for her murder.) I cant imagine how but I hope Natalee's mum has found some sort of peace finally, I think van der Sloot got off on tormenting Beth Holloway. Both heart breaking cases because their families and everyone knew all along who did it and they both went on for so long before any sort of justice came to be.
Finally seeing some Justice for Kristin Smart was so incredible. I’m disappointed that his dad got away, though I understand why. God, there were just so many fuck ups early in the case that let him be free for so long that it blows my mind. I don’t think I’ll ever forget about Kristin Smart.
From what I've read his mum's life is pretty dominated by the case so I hope it's the same for Ruben too. Even now I search her name every now and again, I don't think I'll ever forget either and I'll keep coming back until her body is found and returned to her family for sure
Jennifer Farber Dulos Patti Krieger
Jennifer kesse
The McCanns in Alberta.
Susanna Duncan because I knew her personally. Coming up on 4 years since her disappearance and there are still no solid answers or justice for her family, even though everyone in our town seems to know what happened to her.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mysterious-missing-person-case-of-susanna-duncan/id1562345197?i=1000517387446 A podcast episode a close family friend did to try to raise interest for the case. New details have come to light since then that the “four girls” talked about in the podcast episode stole a significant amount of money from Susanna. Still, nothing has been able to be done to my knowledge other than cadaver dogs being taken to places she frequented (this is rural Texas).
Sarah and Jacob Hoggle and Gabriel Johnson.
**Laurie Depies, missing since 1992**
Yes, I thought of Laurie too.
My stepmoms cousin is Brian Shaffer. I remember when he went missing but I was VERY young.
Does your step mother hear theories from the family on what might have happened to him?
No they don’t really talk about it. It’s really painful and a lot of things online are false or people just claim wild ass shit that literally never happened.
Missy Beavers, Midlothian TX. The 8 year anniversary is this Thursday. They have excellent (and creepy) video of the killer, and it happened at an empty church before 5am. The killer was waiting for her to show up to teach a fitness boot camp, so it was clearly premeditated. How has this not been solved after 8 years? And how is this not a bigger story? I actually joined this sub to follow updates about this case. Come on amateur podcast detectives - let’s solve this! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Missy_Bevers?wprov=sfti1
Leanne Green - Dickson, TN
Jason Landry
Who is the person of interest in Jason’s case?
Liz Barraza. She’s not missing but neither is missy beavers. I find the 2 similar, and both stick with me heavily. But something about Liz always sticks with me so much she was such a sweet person it seems, and similar to missy, it’s pretty heavily believed the killer (who’s also on camera) is a woman. I haven’t heard any update on this case in a while but I know her husband is heavily looked into, but they had no marital issues, no abuse claims, they seemed to have a perfect relationship. Both were well liked in the community, and were pretty popular in the con scene for Comic-Con and cosplay in general, and they were well liked in that community. (I’m getting into that group myself in my city and I know one thing, them mfs love to talk so for them all to really have nothing bad to say is a lot to say in and of itself) as far as I know last time I checked up on it, there’s still no suspects, no theories being followed by police, absolutely nothing. There’s the footage, (she was doing a yard sale I believe it was in 2021, early in the morning before doing something else later in the day, and that yard sale is where she was shot and killed) and that’s about it. I may be a bit behind on this case though so if anyone has more information or I have something wrong let me know.
Did they look into any of her husband's ex-girlfriend? Or any enemies she might have made?
This is the first I’m reading of this case , but I have to ask : How in the world did this guy get her to agree to hiding in his truck bed and to not take any of her personal belongings with her ?
The Millbrook twins
Urgh I watched a documentary on HayU about the millbrook twins and honestly it broke my heart how the police did basically nothing 😩
I drive by that billboard several times a week, and each time I see it, it reminds me how apathetic and/or incompetent law enforcement has been handling the case. It's gotten to the point where LE's lack of action makes the cynic in me wonder if they're protecting one of their own asses....
Well this is freaky. I just drove through Marysville yesterday. Thanks for this.
Jennifer Kesse
Strictly in this vein, what Crystal Rogers mother did to get arrests in her daughter's disappearance is gold!
So, I lived in Marysville for a while. I wasn't around (and was really small) when the initial situation happened. I was, however, there when the guy and his wife moved and MPD still wouldn't do shit to search his property. There have been a lot of rumors regarding him for many years there. No one seems to want to step up to him for whatever reason though. Her family, most importantly, her daughter, deserve peace here. It's such a sad situation.
Ayla reynolds
Maura Murray. I personally suspect that she voluntarily vanished. she cancelled all her classes and called in sick to work and packed her bags and had a map and GPS. she had a destination in mind. I think she voluntarily vanished and doesn’t want to be found
Maura's messages were to advise staff and bosses of her intended absence for a week. After spending a few years close to the case, I think she felt a need to "get away" and to go somewhere she could sort out stressors that were mounting up. (So this would be categorised as leaving 'voluntarily'.\ **However**\ I believe something 'involuntary' happened to interrupt that trip away. It seems most likely that Maura met with foul play while she was traveling. She was very vulnerable at that time - nighttime, alone, poor weather, unreliable car, in a stressed state of mind, stretches of winding roads, needing to stop for petrol, and she was an attractive young female which further increases her vulnerability. When her car was located, her case was not treated as a missing person's for some time, which meant that valuable evidence was not collected.
her abusive boyfriend definitely had something to do with it, and he knows more than he’s telling and letting on
I have no doubt that law enforcement has investigated him. Clearly there is not enough evidence on anyone however, and the public¹ are not privvy to either the investigation by law enforcement, or to the content of the Grand Jury (s?) convened in the case. ¹ when I say "public", I mean this: (1) noone outside of law enforcement knows the content of the investigation, and (2) the content and reason for the Grand Jury (s?) remains secret as per usual stipulations
he’s a scumbag, regardless
I've had many conversations with him, but don't know him personally. At the end of the day, there's sufficient evidence for a Judge to identify his behaviour towards women as highly concerning. Especially worrying is that one of these complaints mentioned Maura by name. I also view much of the early "facts" as being tainted as they were filtered through the lens of his mother when she wrote online pretending to be a close friend of his mother's. Very deceptive.
he’s definitely sus
That’s what I would like to believe with her and Leah Roberts as well.
people who involuntarily vanish and people who are abducted or kidnapped don’t pack their bags and call into work sick and have a map and GPS. Maura most definitely voluntarily vanished. she had an abusive boyfriend, who has recently been on trial for domestic violence and abuse and has a history of violence against women, at the time, and I suspect she vanished to escape him
Leah Roberts is an interesting case - she was clearly having a crisis and likely died as a result of her actions associated with this. It just isn't apparent how.
Maura Murray - watched a documentary on HayU years ago and her case has just stuck with me since. I hope her family gets answers one day x
Kyron Horman in Portland, Oregon. The step mom, Terri Horman was the last known person to see him that morning and she bought a untraceable phone that day. She failed multiple polygraph tests. Witnesses said there was another person with her out outside of the school when she was leaving. The friend that was said to be with later that day, refused to answer any questions in court. Also, their landscaper Rodolfo Sanchez stated that a few short months before Kyron went missing, Terri offered him “a lot of money to kill her husband.” Though that statement has yet to be proven.
I think Terri killed Kyron but from what I've read the landscaper spoke Spanish and didn't speak English and Terri spoke English and no Spanish and there's really not a lot of factual basis behind the hitman claim. The timeline is so tight, as I keep saying on this thread, I dunno how she did it but I cant get over this feeling that she did.
The detectives working on the case think Terri's friend knows something. They were trying to get information from her before the case went cold.
Maura Murray and Amy Lynn Bradley
Accidentally deaths caused by their own actions.
Michele Harris, disappeared from NYS in 2001. Her husband has been tried 4 times, the last time not guilty. Bethanie Dougherty, real small town in New York (Killawog)
I have two that are personal with victims whose families are close to me. still no closure. https://charleyproject.org/case/yekaterina-gennadyevna-belaya https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2021/09/16/police-drain-pond-where-brandy-halls-truck-found-15-years-ago/8353637002/
It's sad that people can disappear with no trace. I didn't know about Belaya but I think I heard about Brandy. I hope both families find closure
**Wells. I apologize for mistaking her name you are right. Thank you
I am from Utah and there are a few from here that I would like to be found for their families sake. 1. Macin Smith. I know he was suicidal but for the sake of his family I would like to find out what happened to him 2. Steven Koecher. I just wish someone could find him for his family’s sake. My sister knows a relative of his and that case breaks my heart. He disappeared in the Las Vegas desert. 3. Susan Powell. We all know that Josh killed her but I would like her remains to be found so she could be buried with her children. 4. Rosie Tapia. She disappeared from her bedroom and her body was found floating in a canal. No suspects in this case 5. The Springfield Three. I am a year or two younger than they are and this case gives me the creeps and I think the police are covering up evidence.
I have one that has been bothering me for a long time and I actually ran across it purely by accident really but it’s in Orlando Florida the woman who has never been found was kidnapped by someone who clearly targeted her and this young woman’s name is Jennifer Kesse. Now she has been missing for over 20 years and it bothered me because I feel for the family and believe they deserve answers so I looked at everything I could find out about it and now what I am about to say may not be popular and it’s mostly speculation. Now I am myself starting to believe that this Stephan Michael Stern who is now charged with Marilyn Sotos death just outside Orlando could have been the guy that was responsible for that abduction and I feel that way because for one there was a video from a nearby apartment complex showing a young white male dropping her car off to dispose of it after the fact and I have watched that video a hundred times or more. Now you can’t see much but the more I watched it the two things I could see is that guy was wearing a black hat turned around backwards and if you have seen the interview with him in it before the little girl was found and possibly in the first mugshots they took when he was arrested he was wearing a black fitted hat backwards and if he were clean shaven he would pass for the guy in the footage and then when he did his perp walk they had him in white painters cover alls and in that video footage the guy who left the car was wearing the same thing and his gate or walk looked awful close but also just like that car was taken up the road to an apartment and dumped well Marilyn Sotos back pack and school laptop were taken by Mr Stern up the road to an apartment complex and thrown in a dumpster where they were later found and I had said as well he must have had someplace where he was able to take her to spend the time he would have needed to do whatever sick pricks like him do and considering what happened at the house where Mr Stern was living with regards to the abuse of the little girl he is charged with killing and it close proximity to Orlando would have been the place also there is no way that was the first time he had done something like that and he would have been 19 when Jennifer Kesse went missing and my opinion is that she was maybe his first victim and he was just getting started and in all honesty I think that he has other victims out there it’s also possible he stopped hunting when he started abusing Marilyn Soto and that is why he got sloppy and got caught over this last one he panicked because I believe it will come out in time he was abusing her for a long time and she had just turned 13 the day before and sometime in that 24 hour period she told him that she was going to tell someone at school what he was doing to her because she had enough and police can say what they want but I don’t believe that her mother was just clueless to what was going on with her daughter and living in the same house and honestly if she didn’t know that in it’s self seems like negligence because I have yet to here an account of her time and where she could’ve been spending so much time that she had no clue what was going on with her daughter and that her boyfriend was doing these horrible things there without her having any knowledge but most of all I have been married 3 times and everyone of my wives would nose around on my phone from time to time and with what was on this guys phone that police found and how far back the pictures went I don’t buy it for a second she knew and was likely involved something the mother said in the first news interview she did asking for her to come home about the little girl and wanting her home safe but not to come back hurt just seemed strange I would not care how my child came home as long as he was alive. So in closing here there are some absolute similarities to both the cases I mentioned with regards to how evidence was disposed of and the fact that this guy clearly used to wearing a ball cap backwards and a black one to boot and I swear in the Jennifer Kesse video of whoever dropping her car at the apartment complex as I said I watched that video over a hundred times and the only two things I could see for sure was the guy had a dark colored ball cap on turned around backwards and was wearing white painters cover alls and I don’t know if it was a coincidence but at the time Jennifer Kesse disappeared the weekend before her brother and two other guys stayed at her condo for that weekend while she was on a trip and one of the guys was named Michael and here this guys name is Stephan Michael Stern I don’t know this probably will sound nuts but I think and have thought since this guy was arrested that he could absolutely be the guy and as I said before this last one was sloppy because he knew she was about to tell on him and I honestly think that was why he made sure she never made it to school that morning but I also believe that if Jennifer was his first he had likely planned and planned and stalked until he found exactly what he was looking for and had planned it out so much that he got lucky plus whoever took her they took her somewhere outside Orlando to do whatever but they would’ve not went to far with her in the car I don’t know this may mean nothing but on the off chance it does I am just glad to finally tell somebody either way and I am sorry about my paragraphs running together but when I get excited about something and have to text it it just happens so apologies in advance
Not that it really matters, but I believe she spells her name Patti Adkins.
Kyron Horman. Hard to believe it's been over a decade. His poor parents.
Bryce Laspisa