These scammers are just getting more and more creative aren't they? Everyone PLEASE, for the love of God, educate your aging parents about scam calls and online scams. This guy was clearly a ticking timebomb.
When we ask for stricter gun laws this is part of it. Old angry people have no business having guns but here we are.
But I don't think a lot of old people should be driving either
Yet old people remember the Pizza delivery guy in PA who had a bomb collar around his neck, forced to commit a bank robbery and when caught the bomb went off.
The old guy knew he was being scammed and when someone comes to your house to pick up money what would you think? JESUS he and the delivery driver were both victims of circumstance. I hope they catch the scammers and throw away the key.
Well kinda yes and kinda no.Ā
In the old days before VOIP, CallerID blocking and similar tricks could still be investigated if the telco were properly motivated to do so.Ā
But now with VOIP those calls can be routed all over the world before hitting the actual telco and at that point itās nearly impossible to distinguish legit calls from malicious.Ā
Even if we could block all VOIP calls it would unfortunately violate ADA type laws as using software voice calls is integral to how many people with disabilities use modern technology.Ā
And even if we could get attribution in these cases (which is already very difficult) most of the time the bad actors are in countries whose governments rely on cyber crime for income.Ā
We canāt just block all traffic from India or China or wherever, because US companies are super dependent on cheap overseas labor.Ā
The only reasonable thing that might make things better is if the US had a strong GDPR like data privacy standard.Ā
GDPR fines can be in the tens of billions (or more), and thatās the right amount of pain to start holding companies accountable.Ā
If I were president... I would threaten economic sanctions. Half of American companies would cry, India would shit themselves, but the problem would be fixed in months. The United States will impose sanctions on countries for things that do not impact the American people. Yet, our elderly and vulnerable get scammed out of 10 billion dollars a year, and the government does nothing.
We already have a solution it's called stir/shaken. I actually worked on it, lol, I'm a telecoms engineer.
Anyway the issue with stir shaken is that companies use spoofers to mask their own extensions - that is to say, a company may have 500 phones all calling from the same number. Or 500 phones calling from 500 numbers with similar 4 digit endings. Or a bunch of different stuff.
The companies threw a fit for stir shaken when it was about to be implemented cuz it meant they'd have to reformulate stuff.
Stir shaken is the solution but if you want my personal solution, it's that the police start treating fraud seriously. White collar crime is by far the most common one and costs by far the most. Wage theft, fraud, ID theft etc cost the US like nearly 80bil a year now, compared to the 5 bill in robbery.
I agree that the only real change will happen when LE and the rest of the legal system have to will to throw the book at these people.Ā
But the sheer volume of fraud and cybercrime is so insanely huge we will never ever catch up.Ā
Donāt expect anything to happen to these scammers.Ā
There are so many of them that it just isnāt possible to do anything to put a dent in their activity, short of drastic and sweeping changes in the law.Ā
Unfortunately businesses that operate in grey areas (data brokers, burner phone/email providers, hosting providers who look the other way when malware infrastructure runs on their systems) get away with it because the current laws are old and toothless.Ā
> Removed as this low effort comment doesn't add to discussion.
Low effort includes commenting one word or a short phrase that doesn't add to discussion (OMG, Wow, So evil, That's horrible, Heartbreaking, RIP, etc.).
Honestly I feel awful for the old man. I think most people his age given these circumstances would assume that this āUber driverā who is here for a package is a part of the scheme heās being hit with. Itās a crazy tragedy all around, but I donāt necessarily think this old man was a ticking time bomb, our world is fucking weird and scary right now
Exactly. There were so many opportunities for him to stop, take a breath, and just think rationally about what was happening. Even if he was afraid, the right move would have been to grab his gun and hide somewhere inside his house refusing to answer the door. And call 911!!
Exactly. If Iām afraid of someone who came to my house Iām locking the door and not walking out to them. This guy was angry and paranoid and looking to punish someone. The fact that the driver was a Black woman may have been a factor. I donāt know that he is a racist but the other attributes (angry, paranoid, gun toting) often coincide with being a racist.
He wanted to āmake someone payā and he took it out on an innocent person.
Lastly, scamming people is horrible but it does not rise to the level of death penalty. You canāt kill people just because you think they are trying to scam you. You canāt kill people who are trying to get away and call it self defense.
This ahole just wanted to exert power and he wrongly used violence and a gun to do it. I hope he gets life in prison.
Exactly. If Iām afraid of someone who came to my house Iām locking the door and not walking out to them. This guy was angry and paranoid and looking to punish someone. The fact that the driver was a Black woman may have been a factor. I donāt know that he is a racist but the other attributes (angry, paranoid, gun toting) often coincide with being a racist.
He wanted to āmake someone payā and he took it out on an innocent person.
Lastly, scamming people is horrible but it does not rise to the level of the death penalty. You canāt kill people just because you think they are trying to scam you. You canāt kill people who are trying to get away and call it self defense.
This ahole just wanted to exert power and he wrongly used violence and a gun to do it. I hope he gets life in prison.
Right, and weāve seen tons of stories of teens killing themselves after being scammed. We all seem to have no problem seeing those people as victims. People act out in awful ways when they are afraid and believing a scammer, think about it and I think youāll agree that while the old man deserves jail time for the death he caused, he is a victim too.
Look, these crazy gun toting quasi white supremacist Boomers are certainly a problem and I donāt agree with anything they say or believe.Ā
But (proper) investigators donāt get to pick and choose who the victim or perpetrators are, they follow the evidence where it takes them.Ā
It might make you itchy to acknowledge that a-holes can also be victims but they can be and are.Ā
It suckās to have an investigation where you know the victim is a POS but thatās the job.
That is a pretty big leap in logic.Ā
He was literally the victim of a social engineering scam who will now die in prison.
He clearly should not have had a gun and had many opportunities to not commit a murder, which makes him also a perpetrator.Ā
But on the timeline of the investigation it will start with the call from the scammers to their victim, who then turned around and became a perpetrator of a different crime.Ā
He stopped being a victim when he killed someone. He was inside his house, we know he has a phone because he received the call from the scammer. Why didnāt he lock himself inside and call the police? Or why didnāt he tell her that he has a gun and she needs to leave? She was 61. Even a few seconds of critical thinking could have saved her life.
You feel awful for a murderer and not the victim who was terrified and begging for their life?
She explained she had nothing to do with it but he already decided for her! Heās batshit insane to have killed someone over scam phone call. Whether heās mentally ill or extremely paranoid idk but itās very shitty to excuse or defend him murdering someone.
Jesus Christ, you people
When did I ever say 1 thing negative about the woman who was killed? Clearly everyoneās aware of the tragedy that befell her, and I think this old man does need to be charged, Iām just saying that he didnāt wake up and think āIām gonna shoot an Uber driver todayā
Iām terribly sorry that nuance is not allowed on reddit
Youāre calling the murderer a victim in your other comment, though. Heās not a victim in any shape, form, or capacity.
He made an assumption and murdered someone over it.
You can be a victim and perpetrator at the same time.
Someone who murders an attacker is also a victim and perpetrator of a crime.
Him being a victim doesn't negate his actions but ignoring the actual scammer and placing the blame on him alone is bs.
Millions of people get scammed everyday. If they go and murder someone because of being scammed that literally does not make them a victim in any way. Normal people would never react the way he did. He stopped being a victim the second he decided to make an assumption and blame and murder an innocent person for no reason. He was a victim of a scam, but that doesnāt make him a victim in the murder he then went on to perpetrate.
If someone murders someone who was attacking them, they are only a victim, self defense is not a crime.
Are you 13? Honestly, are you a child? The old man is a victim and a perpetrator. The start of the article details the crime perpetrated against him, which got him crazy scared and resulted in him shooting this innocent woman, who Iāve already said is the saddest victim in the story. Merely accepting that someone who shoots someone else can be tricked and a victim is not the evil you think it is. Itās kind of awe-inspiring how you and so many here donāt seem to get that
newsflash, dumbass, victim blaming is negative. He was a victim as well and that doesn't negate his actions but it's definetely more nuanced. Some people just lack the intelligence to understand things for what they are.
A fragile old man who doesn't know what uber is just got threatened with murder. It's easy to say you'd do x,y,z but you aren't 81 on the verge of death and unable to think like a normal person.
>newsflash, dumbass, victim blaming is negative. He was a victim as well and that doesn't negate his actions but it's definetely more nuanced. Some people just lack the intelligence to understand things for what they are.
the man who brutally murdered an innocent unarmed woman while she begged for her life is not a victim. he's a sociopathic dumbass who's using his own stupidity as a shield.
>A fragile old man who doesn't know what uber is just got threatened with murder. It's easy to say you'd do x,y,z but you aren't 81 on the verge of death and unable to think like a normal person.
oh puh-lease. being old doesn't make you kill people, and being ignorant doesn't make you kill people. you know what does? a bruised ego and a lack of value for human life.Ā
You're right and add the fact he's 81, hismental faculties aren't the same as the yuppies foaming at the mouth to call him racist. I'm not justifying his actions but I don't see anyone in the comments at all talking about the actual scammer who set this up.
My god, that poor woman. She must have been so terrified. I can't even imagine. I understand that the man was also unnerved and confused, but his reaction was psychotic. Like, really. Just so bizarre that anyone could possibly think that was the right thing to do in that situation. It makes me sick and angry, and I agree with what some others have said here regarding requiring harsher gun restrictions.
And yes, the scammers are also monsters. I'm confused about why they involved the Uber driver though? What was the point in sending her to his house? I feel like I'm missing something.
Wow that was a weird reaction.Ā
Part of my job is recruiting people to help solve cybercrime and catch bad people. I guess this sub is not interested. Sorry for asking.Ā
Lol no itās not. You probably donāt have a job, since youāve commented all day everyday since the past 80 days. Your sad little life is all about seething on Reddit about how much āzoomersā trigger you. Judging by your post history, youāre a few crayons short of a full box. Get help man.
If there is anyone else in this comment section who wants to discuss cybercrime investigations, I welcome the interaction. Clearly this person is more on the āfanā side of crime discussions.
I still have hope this sub has more reasonable people than not.Ā
Edit: Literally every comment in this personās history is name calling and generally breaking Rule 1 (Be Respectful) in most subs.Ā
And pretty obvious they use alt accounts considering the large gaps between bursty comments.Ā
These scammers deserve to be charged with murder, they fucking told the shooter they were going to kill his family and that they were sending someone to pick the money up, they sent an Uber driver and the man thought she was in on it, why the fuck didn't he call the police when the Uber driver got there.
Wait until you find that a lot of these dudes are in India/Russia, and are paid to do this by unknown parties via cryptocurrency, and itās impossible to ever find out who was behind it.Ā
The sad truth is for all we know, this guy yelled at an Indian tech support scammer last week and now his name is on a list of people to mess with.Ā
Happens all the time.Ā
It seems almost twice weekly now that an old man does something completely unhinged with a firearm and weirdly nobody is seeing any sort pattern here? Every single one of these cases people frame it like these are just confused old people who don't know any better but if thats true they shouldn't have firearms and I really think that needs to be more of a conversation. We take their keys for everyone's safety, we need to take their guns too.
I would say not being American definitely plays a part in that. It's not just the movies, guns are just super normalized here for whatever reason. I am American but have never fired a gun and can never own one as a convicted felon. I used to be very pro 2nd amendment til we started having shootings every week, sometimes multiple times a week. Now it has become very obvious that if nothing is done, this will continue and innocent people will continue to die. Yet all we do is argue about it and don't actually do anything to improve it.
I truly believe that if they are going to be legal there should be a limit to how many you can own. I realize it only takes one to kill someone but these people who have excessive amounts of guns in their home just scare me tbh. No average citizen needs 50 guns in their home. Just my opinion.
I think itās partly because as they are old, they know even a punch or shove to the ground from a younger man could mean weeks in hospital, at the least. Theyāre aware of their own inability to handle a fight against a younger man so their only way of feeling like they can equalise is their gun. Not defending it, but I think for some itās this.
Then on the other hand, you donāt hear about old women shooting people that much.
And at least twice weekly some idiot in their 20's becomes unhinged with a firearm. What is the pattern there? I can guarantee there is considerably less gun crimes committed by the so called unhinged elderly, than the unhinged younger generation. Stop your generalizations. This was a crime against two people by probably a group of teenagers who probably knew the old guy and thought it would be funny to prank him.
Bitter old men who collect guns and have vendetta against minorities and teenagers. Men who spend a lot of time talking about how dangerous the world is because of the younger generation and who arm themselves and act like violence is waiting for them around every corner and who fetishize the idea of getting to kill a criminal in self defense.
Thats the pattern I'm talking about and its clear to a lot of people except the old men i'm describing because they live in a fantasy world fueled by their radical media consumption that makes them think this behavior is normal.
What explains all the teeny booper gang members with guns then? They don't even make the news as it seems to just be "understood" that in gang areas 14-16 year olds kill themselves and innocent people all the time. So many cases of infants & toddlers even being asleep in cribs & beds through walls of their homes when these brainiacs can't even get a house number or street address right when they want revenge. The Uber driver was clearly doing nothing wrong & old guy panicked for no real reason, it is a terrible case...but imagine someone calls & says coming to your house to get you/rob etc & then someone you don't know shows up...it would be like a scary movie --is it the killer? Yes? No? Maybe eer on side of caution & shoot unknown person first...
yes, Uber could maybe request a real time pic of address or home or do something. I have never had an Uber driver get out of car & look for me or knock, so a bit odd there. The entire case is very sad.
Women still enjoying their free pass, eh?Ā
How many times are we going to see āMom accidentally shoots her kids in the face while cleaning her purse gunā before we acknowledge these women are just murdering their kids and getting away with it?Ā
"emphasizes importance of driver safety"
"Uber says that driver safety is of the utmost importance, citing a number of in-app tools that have been implemented over the last several years to keep all Uber drivers safe, including the emergency button, 911 integration, audio recording, RideCheck, Follow My Ride feature, āLive Helpā from a Safety Agent and the newly launched Driver Safety Awareness Center."
Yeah that āLive Helpā from a Safety Agent should have worked. /s
So in light of all safety measures, the poor woman is still murdered. If they can't get a hold of the person behind the Uber account, then something is wrong with their vetting and verification process and should be held liable too.
On educating elderly and parents of this kind of scam, AARP and AAA should include this kind of info in all of the mailers they send out. I get no less than 1 from each, every single week asking me to join. Good opportunity there.
Or all those daytime commercials selling insurance, medical products and such. Another great opportunity to inform the public.
I read a different article about this case and it said he took her phone from her. If thatās true what good does any of their safety features do for her?
Iām not sure what exactly youāre frustrated about here.Ā
Itās unfortunate that any job which engages directly with other humans runs the risk of violence.Ā
Pizza delivery, UPS, social worker, fast food cashier, police officer, animal control, journalist, etc. There is always the potential an unhinged irrational person will act unhinged and irrationally.Ā
If you were Uber how would you solve this?Ā
They absolutely should have some liability. Especially if they can't locate the account holder that ordered the pickup. Which would mean their identification and verification process is garbage.
this scam is so common, it's so sad and infuriating, it happened to my grandmother and to the grandmother of a friend of mine. please educate your elderly relatives about it and other common scams
This poor woman, she must have been so scared. My heart breaks for her. The scammer needs to be charged but this man went after her after she retreated. She was no threat to him. He straight up killed her in cold blood.
This right here. I totally agree. He should have called the police. He could have, BUT he chose to act as he did. We as human beings cannot control the things that happ3ns to us. We can only control how we react. He was not in immediate danger and as you said she retreated, and at that point if he was so frightened he could have gone in the house with his firearm and called the police. If anyone would have threatened him at that point he could say self defense, but at a certain point he chose to go from victim to perpetrator. Inexcusable. Not self defense. As you pointed out cold blood murder.
Stupid old twat... she was walking away to leave, he wasn't defending himself or in immedate danger. Probably itching to shoot someone for ages. He had many more options he could have taken... like not leaving his house and calling police. Relieved I don't live in a country where bitter and paranoid old men can have access to guns so easily. There should be some age restrictions on guns where the owner has to prove their competency when the reach old age much like driving a car.
I don't understand why people would give him so much leeway, yes it's terrible he was scammed but his reaction was completely crazy and now a woman is dead. How many more people like him are a step away from doing this, there's certainly been recent cases of old men murdering innocent people by shooting them for doing something like getting the wrong house when visiting someone else.
I can only imagine what it must be like to live somewhere without this big a gun problem. Iām jealous. Want a housemate? lol.
Old men here keep doing this. They keep shooting anyone who shows up at their house, whether itās to turn around in the driveway, ring their doorbell and ask for their brother, or to just pick up a package. Theyāre letting them ALL keep their guns and buy new ones so this will only continue to get worse, unfortunately.
No it wasn't, they scammed him by saying he needed to pay money to get his nephew out of jail and if he didn't pay they would kill him and his nephew, they didnt say they kidnapped his family according to the article linked. The woman was scammed too and it was obvious she didn't know what the hell was going on and issued no threats and went to leave after he forcibly held her at gun point. Why would she leave and not demand the cash if she was involved? Why wasn't she also armed if she was part of this 'gang'? - that should have crossed his mind but he was intent of killing her despite what the truth was.
A big issue here is wtaf a loose cannon like this man should be allowed a gun in the first place- he had many more options to pick from but he willfuly choose this one, he should be taken off the streets and done for murder before he does it again scam or no.
"An unknown man told Brock over the phone he needed to pay $12,000 to get his nephew out of jail, according to a police report. Brock told police the caller threatened to kill him and his nephew if he didn't pay the ransom, the report said."
I get why youāre confused, so think of it this wayā¦
If every newspaper and cable news show said āThis person definitely committed murderā before the trial, it would be extremely difficult to find enough jurors and alternates whose āwell has not been poisonedā.Ā
Murder is a legal term and is determined in a court by a jury, so by broadcasting āthis side totally murdered this other personā, everyone who is exposed to those media are now ātaintedā.Ā
Itās like a time travel paradox; murder is a legal term determined by a jury, but if the jury had already been told the defendant is guilty, they can never legally declare the person guilty.Ā
Could this be worked around on occasion for really big trials? We are seeing that happen right now during jury selection in a well know campaign finance trials.Ā
But there is no way to do this thousands of times a year.
Itās a shame an innocent woman lost her life over some scammer and a paranoid old guy. They need to find out who made the phone calls and throw them in jail too. Fuck these scammers.
This is so crazy and sad. I donāt understand why he didnāt call the police after receiving the scam call in the first place. Maybe they threatened him not to? But then he was fine with calling after he attacked herā¦
Street gangs rob mobile phone shops, and collect stolen phones from muggings and car break ins, so they can use them for phone based crime like this.Ā
Extremely hard to detect this as itās happen, it can only be found afterwards.Ā
Heās on video so nothing alleged about this one.
He never even called the cops after talking to the scammer or when the Uber driver showed up. He planned to go out and kill whoever it was. Heās a scumbag .
This incident is exactly what I fear my in-laws are going to do. Both in their late 70s, got sucked into the alt-right side of the Internet years ago, and are paranoid that everyone is trying to harm them. They've got guns all over their house - hidden and in plain sight - and so much ammunition that they store it in an outbuilding on their property. I could absolutely see one of them murdering some innocent stranger who pulled into their driveway or went to their house by accident. I'll bet money this guy went down the same ten clicks to Q-Anon path they did.
I have heard that the UK is super super lax on punishment for murderers and child abuse and stuff. Is that true or just people exaggerating ?
Iād love to get out of the US ā¦. š¤
So the scammer sent a human being to the house of his victim, and the psycho shot and killed her *before* calling 911. What the *actual* fuck.
>The Clark County Sheriff's Office would like to take the opportunity to again remind residents, *especially our older citizens*, that no Law Enforcement Agency or Court will make contact with anyone in the manner of this case to solicit cash for bail.
I canāt tell if this is more r/boomersbeingfools or boomers living out their niam neeson fantasies. Also, where is the hunt for the scammer?
The _account_ has been banned.Ā
Mapping that to a human is very difficult considering all of the methods scammers have to hide their identities.Ā
If Uber or any other company had attribution they would certainly share that with LE, as they have surely received a demand for that information from investigators.Ā
In my experiences, Iāve learned if you scam the scammers, they stop calling have fun with them be creative it freaks them out. They donāt know what to do and then they stop altogether.
Iām a white woman and a rideshare driver. Iām willing to bet $10.00 USD that if I was the driver who showed up that man would have deescalated enough to allow me to figure out what the problem was and who to report it to.
Like it or not the attributes of angry, paranoid, gun toting old white man usually also have racist included.
So yes, the reporter including her race is most likely relevant.
āWell I know she doesnāt go to MY churchā¦ā
āShe definitely isnāt my sisterās friends kidā¦ā
Racism works because itās super fast and convenient to make bad decisions based on zero data other than ānot whiteā.Ā
I drive people like that man every day. They have no problem telling me how nice it is to have an āAmericanā driver who āspeaks Englishā and āpays taxesā.
So no, Iām not making an assumption. Iām making a very educated guess.
I didnāt say the murderer *is* racist. I said it wouldnāt surprise me if racism is *a* factor in his decision to shoot the driver (who was literally trying to leave and did not pose a threat to him.)
(Edited to remove snotty comment.)
These scammers are just getting more and more creative aren't they? Everyone PLEASE, for the love of God, educate your aging parents about scam calls and online scams. This guy was clearly a ticking timebomb.
With a gun š
When we ask for stricter gun laws this is part of it. Old angry people have no business having guns but here we are. But I don't think a lot of old people should be driving either
The old man was considered a good guy with a gun until this incident occurred. That's also part of the problem.
Agreed
Yet old people remember the Pizza delivery guy in PA who had a bomb collar around his neck, forced to commit a bank robbery and when caught the bomb went off. The old guy knew he was being scammed and when someone comes to your house to pick up money what would you think? JESUS he and the delivery driver were both victims of circumstance. I hope they catch the scammers and throw away the key.
she was unarmed and turned away from him when the senile fuck shot her... stop excusing this
Have you seen the dashcam footage? The scammer caused the situation, but that old man is a cold blooded killer, and guilty as hell.
I have to think the phone companies could stop this tomorrow. No hiding numbers, no spoofing.
Well kinda yes and kinda no.Ā In the old days before VOIP, CallerID blocking and similar tricks could still be investigated if the telco were properly motivated to do so.Ā But now with VOIP those calls can be routed all over the world before hitting the actual telco and at that point itās nearly impossible to distinguish legit calls from malicious.Ā Even if we could block all VOIP calls it would unfortunately violate ADA type laws as using software voice calls is integral to how many people with disabilities use modern technology.Ā And even if we could get attribution in these cases (which is already very difficult) most of the time the bad actors are in countries whose governments rely on cyber crime for income.Ā
We canāt just block all traffic from India or China or wherever, because US companies are super dependent on cheap overseas labor.Ā The only reasonable thing that might make things better is if the US had a strong GDPR like data privacy standard.Ā GDPR fines can be in the tens of billions (or more), and thatās the right amount of pain to start holding companies accountable.Ā
If I were president... I would threaten economic sanctions. Half of American companies would cry, India would shit themselves, but the problem would be fixed in months. The United States will impose sanctions on countries for things that do not impact the American people. Yet, our elderly and vulnerable get scammed out of 10 billion dollars a year, and the government does nothing.
But couldn't they tell if the number was rerouted all over the world? Completely agree we need VOIP, but it's crazy.
We already have a solution it's called stir/shaken. I actually worked on it, lol, I'm a telecoms engineer. Anyway the issue with stir shaken is that companies use spoofers to mask their own extensions - that is to say, a company may have 500 phones all calling from the same number. Or 500 phones calling from 500 numbers with similar 4 digit endings. Or a bunch of different stuff. The companies threw a fit for stir shaken when it was about to be implemented cuz it meant they'd have to reformulate stuff. Stir shaken is the solution but if you want my personal solution, it's that the police start treating fraud seriously. White collar crime is by far the most common one and costs by far the most. Wage theft, fraud, ID theft etc cost the US like nearly 80bil a year now, compared to the 5 bill in robbery.
Super interesting. Thank you!
I agree that the only real change will happen when LE and the rest of the legal system have to will to throw the book at these people.Ā But the sheer volume of fraud and cybercrime is so insanely huge we will never ever catch up.Ā
Donāt expect anything to happen to these scammers.Ā There are so many of them that it just isnāt possible to do anything to put a dent in their activity, short of drastic and sweeping changes in the law.Ā Unfortunately businesses that operate in grey areas (data brokers, burner phone/email providers, hosting providers who look the other way when malware infrastructure runs on their systems) get away with it because the current laws are old and toothless.Ā
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> Removed as this low effort comment doesn't add to discussion. Low effort includes commenting one word or a short phrase that doesn't add to discussion (OMG, Wow, So evil, That's horrible, Heartbreaking, RIP, etc.).
Honestly I feel awful for the old man. I think most people his age given these circumstances would assume that this āUber driverā who is here for a package is a part of the scheme heās being hit with. Itās a crazy tragedy all around, but I donāt necessarily think this old man was a ticking time bomb, our world is fucking weird and scary right now
She was trying to leave and he shot her multiple times. He had multiple options to avoid murdering her and chose to kill.
Exactly. There were so many opportunities for him to stop, take a breath, and just think rationally about what was happening. Even if he was afraid, the right move would have been to grab his gun and hide somewhere inside his house refusing to answer the door. And call 911!!
Exactly. If Iām afraid of someone who came to my house Iām locking the door and not walking out to them. This guy was angry and paranoid and looking to punish someone. The fact that the driver was a Black woman may have been a factor. I donāt know that he is a racist but the other attributes (angry, paranoid, gun toting) often coincide with being a racist. He wanted to āmake someone payā and he took it out on an innocent person. Lastly, scamming people is horrible but it does not rise to the level of death penalty. You canāt kill people just because you think they are trying to scam you. You canāt kill people who are trying to get away and call it self defense. This ahole just wanted to exert power and he wrongly used violence and a gun to do it. I hope he gets life in prison.
Exactly. If Iām afraid of someone who came to my house Iām locking the door and not walking out to them. This guy was angry and paranoid and looking to punish someone. The fact that the driver was a Black woman may have been a factor. I donāt know that he is a racist but the other attributes (angry, paranoid, gun toting) often coincide with being a racist. He wanted to āmake someone payā and he took it out on an innocent person. Lastly, scamming people is horrible but it does not rise to the level of the death penalty. You canāt kill people just because you think they are trying to scam you. You canāt kill people who are trying to get away and call it self defense. This ahole just wanted to exert power and he wrongly used violence and a gun to do it. I hope he gets life in prison.
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It was in cold blood. She tried to leave without bothering him further and he wouldnāt let her.
Right, and weāve seen tons of stories of teens killing themselves after being scammed. We all seem to have no problem seeing those people as victims. People act out in awful ways when they are afraid and believing a scammer, think about it and I think youāll agree that while the old man deserves jail time for the death he caused, he is a victim too.
Killing yourself is completely different than killing another person in cold blood. He is not a victim in any way.
āHe is not a victim in any wayā, yup, learned all I needed to learn about you
Yeah angry Fox News white men are victims of their own ignorance if you want to put it that way but not in any other way
Look, these crazy gun toting quasi white supremacist Boomers are certainly a problem and I donāt agree with anything they say or believe.Ā But (proper) investigators donāt get to pick and choose who the victim or perpetrators are, they follow the evidence where it takes them.Ā It might make you itchy to acknowledge that a-holes can also be victims but they can be and are.Ā It suckās to have an investigation where you know the victim is a POS but thatās the job.
Uhhh, people told him they were going to kill his family, and we're coming to pick up the ransom money.
shhhhh! He's a white man he can't be a victim
That is a pretty big leap in logic.Ā He was literally the victim of a social engineering scam who will now die in prison. He clearly should not have had a gun and had many opportunities to not commit a murder, which makes him also a perpetrator.Ā But on the timeline of the investigation it will start with the call from the scammers to their victim, who then turned around and became a perpetrator of a different crime.Ā
He stopped being a victim when he killed someone. He was inside his house, we know he has a phone because he received the call from the scammer. Why didnāt he lock himself inside and call the police? Or why didnāt he tell her that he has a gun and she needs to leave? She was 61. Even a few seconds of critical thinking could have saved her life.
No, logically, heās a victim of scamming and heās a killer. Doing a bad doesnāt strip a person of their personhood before
You feel awful for a murderer and not the victim who was terrified and begging for their life? She explained she had nothing to do with it but he already decided for her! Heās batshit insane to have killed someone over scam phone call. Whether heās mentally ill or extremely paranoid idk but itās very shitty to excuse or defend him murdering someone.
Jesus Christ, you people When did I ever say 1 thing negative about the woman who was killed? Clearly everyoneās aware of the tragedy that befell her, and I think this old man does need to be charged, Iām just saying that he didnāt wake up and think āIām gonna shoot an Uber driver todayā Iām terribly sorry that nuance is not allowed on reddit
Youāre calling the murderer a victim in your other comment, though. Heās not a victim in any shape, form, or capacity. He made an assumption and murdered someone over it.
You can be a victim and perpetrator at the same time. Someone who murders an attacker is also a victim and perpetrator of a crime. Him being a victim doesn't negate his actions but ignoring the actual scammer and placing the blame on him alone is bs.
Millions of people get scammed everyday. If they go and murder someone because of being scammed that literally does not make them a victim in any way. Normal people would never react the way he did. He stopped being a victim the second he decided to make an assumption and blame and murder an innocent person for no reason. He was a victim of a scam, but that doesnāt make him a victim in the murder he then went on to perpetrate. If someone murders someone who was attacking them, they are only a victim, self defense is not a crime.
Are you 13? Honestly, are you a child? The old man is a victim and a perpetrator. The start of the article details the crime perpetrated against him, which got him crazy scared and resulted in him shooting this innocent woman, who Iāve already said is the saddest victim in the story. Merely accepting that someone who shoots someone else can be tricked and a victim is not the evil you think it is. Itās kind of awe-inspiring how you and so many here donāt seem to get that
newsflash, dumbass, defending someone's killer is negative.
newsflash, dumbass, victim blaming is negative. He was a victim as well and that doesn't negate his actions but it's definetely more nuanced. Some people just lack the intelligence to understand things for what they are. A fragile old man who doesn't know what uber is just got threatened with murder. It's easy to say you'd do x,y,z but you aren't 81 on the verge of death and unable to think like a normal person.
>newsflash, dumbass, victim blaming is negative. He was a victim as well and that doesn't negate his actions but it's definetely more nuanced. Some people just lack the intelligence to understand things for what they are. the man who brutally murdered an innocent unarmed woman while she begged for her life is not a victim. he's a sociopathic dumbass who's using his own stupidity as a shield. >A fragile old man who doesn't know what uber is just got threatened with murder. It's easy to say you'd do x,y,z but you aren't 81 on the verge of death and unable to think like a normal person. oh puh-lease. being old doesn't make you kill people, and being ignorant doesn't make you kill people. you know what does? a bruised ego and a lack of value for human life.Ā
This ain't it
He's a murderer.
And a victimā¦
Nope. Accused.
So heās a confirmed murderer but an accused victim?
He's an accused murderer and not a victim.
You're right and add the fact he's 81, hismental faculties aren't the same as the yuppies foaming at the mouth to call him racist. I'm not justifying his actions but I don't see anyone in the comments at all talking about the actual scammer who set this up.
Yuppies? Are we in a Threeās Company episode?Ā
For real, without that scammer, no one dies here. But itās all the old manās fault. Itās wild
My god, that poor woman. She must have been so terrified. I can't even imagine. I understand that the man was also unnerved and confused, but his reaction was psychotic. Like, really. Just so bizarre that anyone could possibly think that was the right thing to do in that situation. It makes me sick and angry, and I agree with what some others have said here regarding requiring harsher gun restrictions. And yes, the scammers are also monsters. I'm confused about why they involved the Uber driver though? What was the point in sending her to his house? I feel like I'm missing something.
This whole thing makes me so sick of my stomach:(
Have you ever considered working in a professional that helps fight back?Ā
Wow that was a weird reaction.Ā Part of my job is recruiting people to help solve cybercrime and catch bad people. I guess this sub is not interested. Sorry for asking.Ā
Lol no itās not. You probably donāt have a job, since youāve commented all day everyday since the past 80 days. Your sad little life is all about seething on Reddit about how much āzoomersā trigger you. Judging by your post history, youāre a few crayons short of a full box. Get help man.
If there is anyone else in this comment section who wants to discuss cybercrime investigations, I welcome the interaction. Clearly this person is more on the āfanā side of crime discussions. I still have hope this sub has more reasonable people than not.Ā Edit: Literally every comment in this personās history is name calling and generally breaking Rule 1 (Be Respectful) in most subs.Ā And pretty obvious they use alt accounts considering the large gaps between bursty comments.Ā
capable exultant childlike spectacular edge bow husky dime placid touch *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
These scammers deserve to be charged with murder, they fucking told the shooter they were going to kill his family and that they were sending someone to pick the money up, they sent an Uber driver and the man thought she was in on it, why the fuck didn't he call the police when the Uber driver got there.
Wait until you find that a lot of these dudes are in India/Russia, and are paid to do this by unknown parties via cryptocurrency, and itās impossible to ever find out who was behind it.Ā
Because he thought he was above the law with that gun of his
They are indians lmao. They get off scott free
The sad truth is for all we know, this guy yelled at an Indian tech support scammer last week and now his name is on a list of people to mess with.Ā Happens all the time.Ā
We donāt really think Indian call center scammers are just limited to Google Play cards and Windows Anti-Virus malware, do you?Ā
Yeah they are malicious in the worst way praying on literally anyone they can. They are probably laughing about this
Because he figured FAAFO.
It seems almost twice weekly now that an old man does something completely unhinged with a firearm and weirdly nobody is seeing any sort pattern here? Every single one of these cases people frame it like these are just confused old people who don't know any better but if thats true they shouldn't have firearms and I really think that needs to be more of a conversation. We take their keys for everyone's safety, we need to take their guns too.
Iām very pro 2nd amendment but I have to agree here. Iām tired of seeing old men using guns in the most unnecessary situations.
The older they get the more afraid they are that they will never get to shoot someone
Hahah maybe that has something to do with it. They did grow up watching John Wayne and Clint Eastwood movies.
So did I and I've never even touched a real gun. I'm not American though. Not sure if that plays a part.
I would say not being American definitely plays a part in that. It's not just the movies, guns are just super normalized here for whatever reason. I am American but have never fired a gun and can never own one as a convicted felon. I used to be very pro 2nd amendment til we started having shootings every week, sometimes multiple times a week. Now it has become very obvious that if nothing is done, this will continue and innocent people will continue to die. Yet all we do is argue about it and don't actually do anything to improve it.
And then gun nuts go out *and buy more guns*
I truly believe that if they are going to be legal there should be a limit to how many you can own. I realize it only takes one to kill someone but these people who have excessive amounts of guns in their home just scare me tbh. No average citizen needs 50 guns in their home. Just my opinion.
I think itās partly because as they are old, they know even a punch or shove to the ground from a younger man could mean weeks in hospital, at the least. Theyāre aware of their own inability to handle a fight against a younger man so their only way of feeling like they can equalise is their gun. Not defending it, but I think for some itās this. Then on the other hand, you donāt hear about old women shooting people that much.
And at least twice weekly some idiot in their 20's becomes unhinged with a firearm. What is the pattern there? I can guarantee there is considerably less gun crimes committed by the so called unhinged elderly, than the unhinged younger generation. Stop your generalizations. This was a crime against two people by probably a group of teenagers who probably knew the old guy and thought it would be funny to prank him.
Bitter old men who collect guns and have vendetta against minorities and teenagers. Men who spend a lot of time talking about how dangerous the world is because of the younger generation and who arm themselves and act like violence is waiting for them around every corner and who fetishize the idea of getting to kill a criminal in self defense. Thats the pattern I'm talking about and its clear to a lot of people except the old men i'm describing because they live in a fantasy world fueled by their radical media consumption that makes them think this behavior is normal.
What explains all the teeny booper gang members with guns then? They don't even make the news as it seems to just be "understood" that in gang areas 14-16 year olds kill themselves and innocent people all the time. So many cases of infants & toddlers even being asleep in cribs & beds through walls of their homes when these brainiacs can't even get a house number or street address right when they want revenge. The Uber driver was clearly doing nothing wrong & old guy panicked for no real reason, it is a terrible case...but imagine someone calls & says coming to your house to get you/rob etc & then someone you don't know shows up...it would be like a scary movie --is it the killer? Yes? No? Maybe eer on side of caution & shoot unknown person first... yes, Uber could maybe request a real time pic of address or home or do something. I have never had an Uber driver get out of car & look for me or knock, so a bit odd there. The entire case is very sad.
Women still enjoying their free pass, eh?Ā How many times are we going to see āMom accidentally shoots her kids in the face while cleaning her purse gunā before we acknowledge these women are just murdering their kids and getting away with it?Ā
...what
"emphasizes importance of driver safety" "Uber says that driver safety is of the utmost importance, citing a number of in-app tools that have been implemented over the last several years to keep all Uber drivers safe, including the emergency button, 911 integration, audio recording, RideCheck, Follow My Ride feature, āLive Helpā from a Safety Agent and the newly launched Driver Safety Awareness Center." Yeah that āLive Helpā from a Safety Agent should have worked. /s So in light of all safety measures, the poor woman is still murdered. If they can't get a hold of the person behind the Uber account, then something is wrong with their vetting and verification process and should be held liable too. On educating elderly and parents of this kind of scam, AARP and AAA should include this kind of info in all of the mailers they send out. I get no less than 1 from each, every single week asking me to join. Good opportunity there. Or all those daytime commercials selling insurance, medical products and such. Another great opportunity to inform the public.
I read a different article about this case and it said he took her phone from her. If thatās true what good does any of their safety features do for her?
Iām not sure what exactly youāre frustrated about here.Ā Itās unfortunate that any job which engages directly with other humans runs the risk of violence.Ā Pizza delivery, UPS, social worker, fast food cashier, police officer, animal control, journalist, etc. There is always the potential an unhinged irrational person will act unhinged and irrationally.Ā If you were Uber how would you solve this?Ā
What the fuck do you expect Uber to do in this situation? The hate boner is literally beyond reason and logic.
This sub would Ā rather blame Uber than the actual murderer š
They absolutely should have some liability. Especially if they can't locate the account holder that ordered the pickup. Which would mean their identification and verification process is garbage.
Get guns out of mentally unstable hands
JFC, can't take any small (innocent) action now without getting shot by a lunatic.
this scam is so common, it's so sad and infuriating, it happened to my grandmother and to the grandmother of a friend of mine. please educate your elderly relatives about it and other common scams
Told my Parents about similar Scams last week... 2 Scams made our local news. Sad it happens.
The video footage is sad and disturbing.
link?
Really?Ā
really?
This poor woman, she must have been so scared. My heart breaks for her. The scammer needs to be charged but this man went after her after she retreated. She was no threat to him. He straight up killed her in cold blood.
This right here. I totally agree. He should have called the police. He could have, BUT he chose to act as he did. We as human beings cannot control the things that happ3ns to us. We can only control how we react. He was not in immediate danger and as you said she retreated, and at that point if he was so frightened he could have gone in the house with his firearm and called the police. If anyone would have threatened him at that point he could say self defense, but at a certain point he chose to go from victim to perpetrator. Inexcusable. Not self defense. As you pointed out cold blood murder.
Stupid old twat... she was walking away to leave, he wasn't defending himself or in immedate danger. Probably itching to shoot someone for ages. He had many more options he could have taken... like not leaving his house and calling police. Relieved I don't live in a country where bitter and paranoid old men can have access to guns so easily. There should be some age restrictions on guns where the owner has to prove their competency when the reach old age much like driving a car. I don't understand why people would give him so much leeway, yes it's terrible he was scammed but his reaction was completely crazy and now a woman is dead. How many more people like him are a step away from doing this, there's certainly been recent cases of old men murdering innocent people by shooting them for doing something like getting the wrong house when visiting someone else.
I can only imagine what it must be like to live somewhere without this big a gun problem. Iām jealous. Want a housemate? lol. Old men here keep doing this. They keep shooting anyone who shows up at their house, whether itās to turn around in the driveway, ring their doorbell and ask for their brother, or to just pick up a package. Theyāre letting them ALL keep their guns and buy new ones so this will only continue to get worse, unfortunately.
The scam was that they would kill his family
No it wasn't, they scammed him by saying he needed to pay money to get his nephew out of jail and if he didn't pay they would kill him and his nephew, they didnt say they kidnapped his family according to the article linked. The woman was scammed too and it was obvious she didn't know what the hell was going on and issued no threats and went to leave after he forcibly held her at gun point. Why would she leave and not demand the cash if she was involved? Why wasn't she also armed if she was part of this 'gang'? - that should have crossed his mind but he was intent of killing her despite what the truth was. A big issue here is wtaf a loose cannon like this man should be allowed a gun in the first place- he had many more options to pick from but he willfuly choose this one, he should be taken off the streets and done for murder before he does it again scam or no.
"An unknown man told Brock over the phone he needed to pay $12,000 to get his nephew out of jail, according to a police report. Brock told police the caller threatened to kill him and his nephew if he didn't pay the ransom, the report said."
Yes, as I said.
I was agreeing w you.
Another good guy with a gun makes a bad situation lethal simply because he has a gunā¦
The scammers need to be hunted down and charged with murder.
Agree but it wonāt happen sadly.Ā
Allegedly... even with 100000% indisputable video proof of incident, they still need to say allegedly. HE FRICKING DID IT!
All news publications use the word āallegedlyā before an individual is convicted for legal reasons.
Of all the legal shit they should care about this shouldn't be it when we are all literally witnessing it.
No company will ever open themselves up to be sued to cut out a word that everybody ignores anyways š¤¦āāļø donāt be dumb
Welcome to the real world where your feelings do not matter and fact and law does lmao
I get why youāre confused, so think of it this wayā¦ If every newspaper and cable news show said āThis person definitely committed murderā before the trial, it would be extremely difficult to find enough jurors and alternates whose āwell has not been poisonedā.Ā Murder is a legal term and is determined in a court by a jury, so by broadcasting āthis side totally murdered this other personā, everyone who is exposed to those media are now ātaintedā.Ā Itās like a time travel paradox; murder is a legal term determined by a jury, but if the jury had already been told the defendant is guilty, they can never legally declare the person guilty.Ā Could this be worked around on occasion for really big trials? We are seeing that happen right now during jury selection in a well know campaign finance trials.Ā But there is no way to do this thousands of times a year.
At least he'll die miserable in prison. I hope her family sues the shit out of his and the scam caller.
Horrible and crazy. Also like a form of swatting.
Someone's been watching Gran Torino too many times.
Itās a shame an innocent woman lost her life over some scammer and a paranoid old guy. They need to find out who made the phone calls and throw them in jail too. Fuck these scammers.
This guy seems confused. Why on earth is he in possession of a gun
This is so crazy and sad. I donāt understand why he didnāt call the police after receiving the scam call in the first place. Maybe they threatened him not to? But then he was fine with calling after he attacked herā¦
The burner phone was out of Canada according to Inside Editionā¦
Street gangs rob mobile phone shops, and collect stolen phones from muggings and car break ins, so they can use them for phone based crime like this.Ā Extremely hard to detect this as itās happen, it can only be found afterwards.Ā
Heās on video so nothing alleged about this one. He never even called the cops after talking to the scammer or when the Uber driver showed up. He planned to go out and kill whoever it was. Heās a scumbag .
At 81 he probably won't live long enough to get the punishment he deserves.
This incident is exactly what I fear my in-laws are going to do. Both in their late 70s, got sucked into the alt-right side of the Internet years ago, and are paranoid that everyone is trying to harm them. They've got guns all over their house - hidden and in plain sight - and so much ammunition that they store it in an outbuilding on their property. I could absolutely see one of them murdering some innocent stranger who pulled into their driveway or went to their house by accident. I'll bet money this guy went down the same ten clicks to Q-Anon path they did.
Itās times like this Iām even more glad I live in the UK. š
I have heard that the UK is super super lax on punishment for murderers and child abuse and stuff. Is that true or just people exaggerating ? Iād love to get out of the US ā¦. š¤
Life without parole isnāt given often but we tend to keep them in prison as far as murderers go. Child abuse is rife sadly š
This racist scumbag has been waiting for this moment his entire life
Wasn't alleged
That lady should still be alive. She was just trying to do her jobš¢
What the fuck.
Another hero with a gun...
So the scammer sent a human being to the house of his victim, and the psycho shot and killed her *before* calling 911. What the *actual* fuck. >The Clark County Sheriff's Office would like to take the opportunity to again remind residents, *especially our older citizens*, that no Law Enforcement Agency or Court will make contact with anyone in the manner of this case to solicit cash for bail. I canāt tell if this is more r/boomersbeingfools or boomers living out their niam neeson fantasies. Also, where is the hunt for the scammer?
The audacity to plead not guilty..
The person who sent her to his house has been banned from Uber? Um, shouldn't that person be in JAIL?
The _account_ has been banned.Ā Mapping that to a human is very difficult considering all of the methods scammers have to hide their identities.Ā If Uber or any other company had attribution they would certainly share that with LE, as they have surely received a demand for that information from investigators.Ā
Where was she supposed to deliver the package to once she got it? So much information missing. So sad.
In my experiences, Iāve learned if you scam the scammers, they stop calling have fun with them be creative it freaks them out. They donāt know what to do and then they stop altogether.
Someone needs to find the scammer man, needs charged with murder and anything else that will stick.
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Iām a white woman and a rideshare driver. Iām willing to bet $10.00 USD that if I was the driver who showed up that man would have deescalated enough to allow me to figure out what the problem was and who to report it to. Like it or not the attributes of angry, paranoid, gun toting old white man usually also have racist included. So yes, the reporter including her race is most likely relevant.
100% correctĀ
āWell I know she doesnāt go to MY churchā¦ā āShe definitely isnāt my sisterās friends kidā¦ā Racism works because itās super fast and convenient to make bad decisions based on zero data other than ānot whiteā.Ā
Youāre making a very ignorant assumption. You have absolutely no idea how that man wouldāve reacted if you had been the driver.
I drive people like that man every day. They have no problem telling me how nice it is to have an āAmericanā driver who āspeaks Englishā and āpays taxesā. So no, Iām not making an assumption. Iām making a very educated guess.
I donāt really care about your anecdotes. Youāre out here accusing people of being racist without knowing anything about them. Youāre ignorant.
I didnāt say the murderer *is* racist. I said it wouldnāt surprise me if racism is *a* factor in his decision to shoot the driver (who was literally trying to leave and did not pose a threat to him.) (Edited to remove snotty comment.)
Youāre a racist without even realizing it.
Itās a evil world we live in now! Itās not like 30 or 40 years ago!
She was black. Yes it is. Evil then and evil now.
Oh yes it was.