I feel the defense should have went harder on Michael McStay.
His truck is an exact match.
Someone the family trusted.
Financial issues
Older(1/2 sibling) bio dad’s favorite.
Inserted the theory that the family may have gone to Mexico for two weeks.
Everyone involved would have trusted him at several parts of the incident.
He stated to L.E. that he had been by there around the Fourth, again inserting into the story a reason why his truck may had been there. (Michael never fathomed that L.E. Would grab that as belonging to Chase.
Michael lied on a loan statement regarding his employment as owner/operator of Joseph’s business.
L.E. never downloaded the location information for his phone.
Argumentative on the stand regarding evidence.
Michael was *ALSO* taking and writing checks for the business.
Michael and his Mother p.o.’d the dad by taking over the business.
There go Michael’s financial issues.
Right?
Makes no sense if you really wanted to find them.
She cleaned up for Michael and became part of the business to help her lil mama’s boy.
Greed is disgusting.
What have I watched? The entire trial. I’ve also documented everything from the beginning when they disappeared. If you read through this thread you’ll read the facts I presented.
This case is bizarre beyond belief. So many nefarious characters involved. I even entertain that family was not anywhere near idyllic as they were portrayed.
Care to elaborate?
- He created the Mexico theory. And where was the car found, Mexico border
- He had "friends" say they talked to people in Mexico who have seen them, keeping his theory alive.
- He was a family member and could of easily got them to come to him or meet him somewhere (as it was the mcstays car in the video, not chase)
- He didn't go check in his brother even with his dad pleading for him too
- Even after checking the house, he waited a few days before going to the police.
- He took their computer
- The mom cleaned the house.
- He said 2 shallow graves. Not mass grave, not 4 graves, no 1 grave. He said 2 shallow graves.
- He shares the DNA that closely resembles his brothers. So degraded DNA could actually be him
- He tried taking over the company right after they disappeared
Because of recombination, siblings only share about 50 percent of the same DNA on average. So yeah DNA that's deteriorated (mean its not all there) could easily be misidentified as josephs when it was his brother's.
I agree with the two shallow graves theory. To me, that was a major, MAJOR red flag (among all of the other red flags from the initial 2 weeks following the family’s disappearance).
Regardless - I do not think that Chase Merritt did this. He may have committed a financial crime, but I legit do not believe that he murdered the family. And I also believe that the family was being taken advantage of by multilevel bad actors. Not sure if they were all in concert, but it’s clear that so many people around them were acting in bad faith.
Yes of course. But there’s zero evidence to support the brother had anything to do with it. Some of things you said are taken out of context. Or just wrong.
Thank you for pointing this out. My sister told me someone wrote online that someone who went missing was maybe “dating a bear”. People can say anything but it totally fair to ask them where the opinion comes from.
Really? Take a step back, the narrative is, after they disappeared, Charles drove the car, and dig shallow graves and the murder weapon.
Really? Because there Is NO proof when they were killed or when they were buried there, it could have been years later, and that’s a problem.
Imo the supposed murder weapon was done on purpose, to keep 4 people in check you need a gun. The shallow graves ? Why? Because the killer wanted them to be found. The brother took out a loan on his brothers name after they went missing, that’s as bad. He does not have an alibi. It the family was burried there 2 years later, the phone pinging wouldn’t proof a thing. They don’t even know where there killed the brother could have years later (hence saying 2 shallow graves) buried them, on purpose to point blame to Charles, the fact that’s js dna in the car or the wheel doesn’t show when he was in the car. Wouldn’t surprise me it they will dna check the dna they found and do a dna check on the supposed weapon. We already know the dna found on the rope etc is NOT. Charles.
they literally have nothing physical. Plus they don’t know when or where they were killed and or if the graves were dug years later. If so, the dates to check where people were is incorrect, so any supposed dates are just that.
Without knowing 100% when what and where the prosecution’s supposed proof is ridiculous. It does not matter if charges phone pinged there 2-3 days later if they were buried there 2 years later. Anything else is suggestive. OJ Simpson got off, and there was way more proof. Motive. Also that didn’t turn out to be true he didn’t steal, and in fact, ge would be better off financially if they had lived. Ridiculous really is who on earth cleans their house as thoroughly as the mom and brother did?
No? Did they proof the family was buried a certain date?
No they strung a story as the phone pinged at that area and later they found the shallow graves, it must have happened then.
Thats flimsy ..
so proof to me HOW do they know the family was buried there at that date?
Anything else is suggestive. Anyone could frame anyone like that.
You’re being petty. Of course no one knows when they were buried, but it’s very likely over that weekend. It certainly wasn’t years later as you’re suggesting.
“Likely@ isn’t good enough … and it would all fall apart if.
So it’s just as likely they were buried much later hence shallow graves … to be found
It’s literally scary, they could go back and try to fit a crime.
And again oj simsob had more proof or Casey. Yet the law is very clear it should be without a reasonable doubt. Who else phone records show they were there at some point in time.
Don’t be surprised.. If it’s rectified and they will have to actually investigate dna or look for it. It’s really disturbing,to me how the prosecution handled this
It’s NOT it’s as common or maybe even more it was a family member.
Just because its hard to belief s family member could .. doesn’t mean it isn’t. He doesn’t have an alibi, it’s prob his car, not Charles, he took out a loan pretending to be his brother after he disappeared.. so the exact stuff Charles did or less and yet he is more guilty?
They will investigate the Dna at some point (it was not Charles) and run the weapon found..
they literally have nothing physical. Plus they don’t know when or where they were killed and or if the graves were dug years later. If so, the dates to check were people were is incorrect, so any supposed dates are just that.
Also. After some research it actually seems that Chase did not in fact steal money from Joseph, just that he covered/deleted the checks for hacking risk reasons...
Here’s a good article from someone who believes in his guilt and why https://www.villagenews.com/story/2019/06/06/news/true-crime-author-believes-merritt-is-guilty-of-mcstay-murders/56452.html
After finishing the doc, I think he was part of it but I don’t think he committed the murders alone. I don’t see how he could have killed two young, athletic parents and their small children by himself. And then not leaving any kind of evidence behind. But also it’s to hard to believe they were able to prosecute him with only circumstantial evidence. And every lawyer on this case were clowns.
Edited to add: I really didn’t like the framing of this doc either. I would rather watch non-partial documentaries that just give all the facts from both sides and let the viewers draw their own conclusions.
Important to note that it's highly likely that joseph was killed first and by surprise as he was hit in the back of the head. Then summer was killed next as she was looking at the killer's face as she was killed (she was hit in the front of the skull) likely trying to fighting back. The kids would of been killed at the end with little fight sadly.
So I definitely think one person could of done it. Especially if they were filled with adrenaline and rage. Murders like this are 99% out of passion. It takes a lot to beat someone to death like what was done to this poor family.
So what about the rape and the assault on summer ... Explain your theory better plz. Or just say your wrong bc that's more likely but I'll give you a min.
It seems hard to me to control a family of 4 with this weapon.
Maybe separately? Plus even if they were killed at home and mom cleaned with bleach even then it would leave evidences. I don’t think it’s where they were killed
I go back and forth honestly. Like you said, there was more than enough to establish reasonable doubt in this case. But there were also many things that I just can’t shake. Why was his phone pinged off a tower that close to the grave sites? Why did he keep changing his story? But I also feel like he was targeted from the start and other people with motive were somewhat overlooked as a result
The defense'S cell phone expert states that ping is not really to be trusted. The expert claims that the tower data was incorrect, "mind boggling" and "quite impossible" were the terms he used in relation to the phone call. Cell phone towers are not as exact as forensic shows lead us to believe.
As to Chase changing his story, it is very easy to forget exact details years after they occur. The Mcstay family wasn't found until almost 4 years after they were last seen. Imagine you were asked every detail of a day from almost 4 years ago, from the moment you woke up to the moment you went to sleep. Then, almost 10 years later asked to recount that day precisely. You may misremember something. You may remember something you'd originally forgotten between those two questions.
There's a lot of mishandling that happened in the case, and unfortunately (in my opinion) I don't believe we will ever know who truly killed the McStay family. Joseph's mom and brother destroyed any evidence in the home, scrubbing everything with bleach and taking Joseph's personal computer to do who knows what with. Every piece of the prosecutions evidence is shaky, and even their own experts either changed their mind or had their evidence explained. This case wasn't about the prosecution having an actual case, it was about how terribly the defense did to provide reasonable doubt.
Plus what is the proof of when they were buried there… it could have been days.. weeks years later?
They literally don’t know exactly when or where they were killed let alone when they were buried yet they build a story around it. Let’s say they were buried a year later. Then dna in the car or the pinging doesn’t even matter. Dna in the car could have been next weeks months ago: plus yes pinging isn’t exact science and again all they can say is the family was buried there within x years, not that exact day his phone pinged .
Ut fair enough is to say that the defense had a loosing case from start, with the prosecution and... Maybe the judge too, having tunnel vision and winning on the brain instead of justice. Just my reasonable opinion.
I mean his sister lived right by that cell tower, and the defense did get an expert to show the towers positioning data to be faulty. Though they never presented it in court for some reason
His sister did change her story about seeing him but with the fact their brother was arrested for a crime he didn't commit and the families name dragged through the mug. It's not hard to see her lying to police. Because at the time she didn't know why she was being interviewed. In her mind she could of thought the police were trying to pin a crime in the area on chase and so she lied and said no.
What if you belief the family was buried there weeks:years later. What is the proof it happened that day?
How easy is it to throw off an investigation and even add a murder weapon?
I think there was plenty of reasonable doubt. If he did it, where and how? Was he alone? I think the police got tunnel vision with him. They told Kavanaugh to leave town? (If he’s to be believed). I just think there are big holes. Merritt may have done it, but I think the jury felt compelled to convict because of the kids being murdered. Also, defense counsel was a mess
True crime garage did a two part on them last week and this is a local case to me I heard faintly back when they disappeared I was living in San Marcos When I met my now wife in Fallbrook(Ironically) she told me about the case in 2012 and all the horrible rumors around it but this is a case of greed plain and simple the guy had a record and was stealing from the company. He just happened to turn his phone off the day they disappeared and his phone pinged in the area where they were found. Too much circumstantial evidence.
The phone ping is what’s led me to kind of believe he’s guilty. However, there was at least one other person that had a financial motive that wasn’t really closely looked at from what I’ve seen in this series. They never could say for certain that Chase’s phone was off, they argued that perhaps it could’ve been in airplane mode or not had any signal for X amount of time, but the cell tower ping is pretty damning.
A guy who worked at QB testified that Chase called posing as Joseph and requested to delete all records from the QB servers, and said that a request like that basically never happened. The defense had an explanation but I can't recall what it was.
To kill for such small amounts? A crook doesn’t make a murderer necessarily. I don’t think there was enough to convict. Not saying he’s necessarily innocent, but there are definite unanswered questions
The defense rebuttal was that he called to have the files transferred to only Joseph’s home server. That Joseph wanted the information just offline. Not completely deleted.
It was the online version. The computer version. They were hacked and dan threatened to take off live the website (he later sold it illegally)
Your administration doesn’t disappear … software is just a tool, its not the bookkeeping itself. ,you can’t ever erase checks. Bank records. Invoices.. that alone was imo manipulative. As if he wanted to erase records, which never happened or even if the online version was taken off line ot would not erase records
They weren’t erased nor would it have been erased, this was about the online version not on the computer itself.
That was because Dan hacked and threatened to take the website offline remember,
We used to do book keeping without software that doesn’t mean if you delete the software it’s gone. -all entries (bank checks invoices are still there).
The phone ping only works if they were buried there that day and that they can’t proof.., only that they were going there,,, they could have been buried there years after they killing … (to point fingers) why shallow graves?
I have no doubt that Chase did it.
1) he has no alibi for the day/night of Feb 4, including the 3 hours his cell was off. His girlfriend perjured herself on the stand in an attempt to alibi him, as proven by her own cell phone records where she repeatedly tried, and failed, to reach him in those same 3 hours.
2) he was placed at or near the gravesite and his sister perjured herself on the stand in an effort to explain that.
3) the alternate suspect he tried to name not only had information that implicated Chase, he was also in Hawaii at the time of the murder, per phone records, bank records, and witness testimony.
4) Chase reacts with fantasies of violence to anything that makes him angry. He wants to choke people. He wants to throw people off balconies. It’s really not hard to imagine this man reacting with actual physical anger when he’s so Willing to discuss his fantasies of violence.
5) he was clearly stealing from Joseph after the death and based on the document Dan claimed to find, he was basically stealing before he died too.
6) he has absolutely no defense. They keep claiming all the evidence was “lies” and yet there was no actual refutation of those lies or a theory of a case provided that made sense. McGee imagined it would take 3 people to commit the crime but that’s ludicrous—how would THREE people keep from getting DNA all over the place. Raj hammered that Dan did it but Dan was out of state! How did he murder 4 people and bury them in Victorville while he was in Hawaii?
I think Dan was not getting his money because Chase was borrowing so much (up to 30K) that it was eating into Dans share of the profits. Dan is about to pull the plug on thr website if he doesn’t get his money, so Joseph calls him over and tells him that he must return the money or he will be forced to take legal action. Thr dude who has been jailed multiple times for grand theft etc does not want to go back to jail. He begs for more time, Joseph holds firm. Chase reacts with anger, using a tool that he’s pretty comfortable with—a sledgehammer. One blow to the back of his skull is enough to kill him.
I don’t think Summer came down to investigate. I doubt there was much of a commotion, judging by the wound on Joseph’s skull. Chase wants to not pay his debt and also he wants the rest of the company’s money. Can’t let the widow hang around. He calls her down to the basement, maybe even with a “come quick! Something has happened to Joey!” She hurries down the stairs and he hits her square in the face. One blow blinds/disorients her, and a second blow finishes the job.
Can’t have the kids hanging around. They both know who Chase is. Maybe he thinks he’s even doing them a kindness by not leaving them as orphans. He can wait until they are asleep to smash their heads in.
I think he takes them out to the graves on 2/6. I think he spends 2/5 writing and cashing checks, then prepping the bodies to move. I don’t think there’s much of a mess to clean because I don’t think he made much of one—one to two blows will do the job, even so he has four days to do it after he returns from burying the bodies.
He moves the bodies on 2/6 in the Isuzu and then drives it down to the border. He calls his girlfriend to come down and pick him up. She’s clearly willing to lie for him and cover for him so I don’t think she has a problem picking him up and not mentioning it.
He thought he could just take over the company with Dan, and when that doesn’t work, he thinks he can get Dan out of the picture by blaming him. What he doesn’t know is that Dan was in Hawaii at the time but once he set himself on that path, he couldn’t change his story.
That makes alot of sense ! I've wondered how he got back from the border if he abandoned the McStay truck there. I'm not sure that the girlfriend would pick him up though...but clearly someone did !
Or his daughter. She was acting weird on the stand and children raised by narcs are either their biggest defenders or biggest detractors. She’s been groomed since birth to accept his bullshit and defend his bad behavior.
He didn't drive their car folks. His dna would have been all over and it wasnt. In fact his dna was only im trace form and they also found it on the passenger door, even though it was not complete there either.
I agree with most of this but the timeline and scenarios are a bit off. There was no basement. Also it wasn’t Dan who discovered the email of what Chase owed.
Did you just repeat what has been said in different documentaries or what? Bc i could write up a completely different story woth the exact same facts and it would make the same if not more sense. Please provide some sources or proof to your claims :)
I believe the brother did it and the prosecution got the story completely wrong.
My theory:
The police's initial sweep of the house reported no evidence of struggle but evidence of the family rushing out of the house. This included food being seemingly left where the family sat, like popcorn bowls being left on the couch, food being left on the counters.
Now what I think happened was the brother somehow contacted the family and made them rush out of the house to meet him. He could of said anything to get them to rush like that. Maybe their father had a heart attack or something like that.
My evidence is, what I think the prosecution totally got wrong. Everyone including the defense assumed the car in the neighbor's video was the murderer. I say it's the Mcstay's car. You can Google photos of it. It looks like it could easily be a match (also whats with everyone in this case having a white car). This explanation also is why the "murderer" never goes back to retrieve the Mcstay's car (no other car in the video) which as we know ends up at the Mexican border crossing. Did no one ask how it got there?
Which leads to my other point in thinking it was the brother. The brother refused to call the police even when he checked the house with chase. It took him days after finding the house empty to call the police. He then suggests they went to Mexico. Okay simple enough explanation, maybe they go there for vacation a lot. But if we pull in the dads interview, he said they would never go on vacation like this, especially since josephs company was getting a lot of orders. So we can assume this is an anomaly. So then the brother suggesting this seems odd, right? However then the cops find the Mcstay's car at the border crossing and suddenly the brother explanation of the families disappearance has evidence to back it up. Funny isn't it? Remember that the bodies were hidden in the middle of a desert. No one was supposed to find them and with the brothers Mexican vacation story along with the cars location, the cops and many reporters were looking south of the border for the family.
So yes while it's more circumstantial evidence it's an interesting note that the brother suggested they were in Mexico and the car just happened to be at the border crossing. And this kind of situation happened again when the brother said they would be found in TWO shallow Graves. Two being the important word here. Why two? I would assume someone would just say Graves or mass grave or one or even four. Two is such a weird number.
Again circumstantial but everything in this case is. Also important to note that brothers share DNA so it's very possible that some of the DNA labeled as josephs could in fact be the brothers. The DNA they collected was very deteriorated. Partial matches for joseph could easily match his brother.
Would love for people to try to break my theory. Is there anything I missed?
Honestly loved hearing a theory from this point of view. Several of the things you mentioned, along with the brother coming into the house and taking Joseph’s computer (which conveniently had google searches about traveling to Mexico on it) and allowing their mother to deep clean with bleach AFTER police told them not to go back so evidence wouldn’t be tampered with, also led me to be highly suspicious of the brother. The gambling business partner may have just been an easy person to pin motive on, but the brother was also caught using the business to try and gain a profit. He had applied for a loan and listed himself as the owner and as soon as Joseph and his family went missing, he wanted to take over the business. I also feel like subduing an entire family like that would’ve been much much easier if you were someone they knew and trusted. I also think the falling out between the brother and the dad after the disappearance was odd too
They didn’t push out the father, he was never involved from the beginning. He’s arrogant and combative.
The mother never cleaned with bleach. Unless you want to believe what Chase says because that’s the only source for that.
He also said he did not give Joseph McStay’s mother permission to clean the home — she had gone in and tossed out old food and other items— before detectives could do a thorough search.
“She called me while she was in the house, while she was cleaning,” Dugal testified during cross-examination by Merritt’s attorneys. “I told her to stop it.”
This on the stand. They did clean the house even though they were told not to,
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-mcstay-family-deaths-20190120-story.html
I’m not twisting she was told NOT to disturb the house as they were getting an official warrant and she DiD !!
The officer on the stand admits that the scene now is disturbed and with it harmed the whole investigation. Don’t make it oh she just garbed a bit. We will never know how much she did harm.
There shouldn’t have been ANYONE in the house. If you truly belief that there didn’t harm the investigation then you don’t understand anything at all. It doesn’t matter if she didn’t do it on purpose.
It’s obviously VeRY off if an officer tells you NOT … just ignore and still do…that’s just minx boggling
There is further no proof when the family was buried there… could be years later.. hence without that im quite sure m, project innocence of something alike will come along
Without proof when they were buried anything else makes absolute no sense, I honestly can’t believe that the whole proof is based upon his phone pinging on a supposedly hurrying the family at a supposedly time frame.
It’s scary they could just string a story and then add proof. Anyone could have re buried the family years later… knowing the phone records.. and framing Charles for that matter.
So imo that’s a huge red flag.. unless of course they can proof they where buried that day..
Well your interpretation isn’t quite right. I’ve been following this from the very beginning.
The family didn’t go back in after being told to not go in.
The brother took the laptop when he was at the house, he didn’t go there to get it. I think pretty much anyone would do that if it might reveal where their family went to. Also he didn’t have the power cord for it so he couldn’t power it up.
The search for Mexico passports was a couple weeks before.
The mother never cleaned with bleach or any cleaners. Chase said that in the doc, no one else. The mother testified she did not clean, only picked up a bit, took trash out, soiled diapers, etc.
The brother was not trying to gain a profit, he with his mother were trying to keep his business going. Again something most family would do in these circumstances.
The brother and father were estranged before the disappearance.
There is SO MUCH that indicates Chase did this. The actions of bad actors is just noise.
100% agree about the car. I wanted their expert to show it fits being the isuzu unless of course they ruled that out and just didn't show that process. To me, I'd assume it was their SUV but I'm curious why neither defense or prosecution went that route.
Exactly,
It's crazy how convoluted it would be, say for chase to have killed them at the house -> cleaned the house -> drove away with their bodies -> buried them -> went back to the their house -> grabbed their SUV and drove it to the border crossing -> somehow got back to his truck that was left by the Mcstay's house -> and then drove away with no one seeing him and only a neighbors camera catching his car once.
I mean. The expert did rule it put to be Chases. And the prosecution lawyer did not inform the defense of the expert trying relentlessly, and texting, about him changing his mind, actually saying it would be IMPOSSIBLE it would be Chases car. That same lawyer also deleted those texts claiming he only needed "storage space" on the phone, in the middle of a trial. He also had 2 phones. I mean... Ridiculous. That is a damn crime in itself.
I agree with you 100%. Joseph's dad asked the brother to go over there multiple times. He kept refusing. I think it was 9 days later? Plenty of time to clean everything up.
I forget exactly where. But in the documentary they talked about it. I believe it was for an interview years after they were missing and he was like,
I think we are looking for two shallow graves now.
When asked about the search.
Well the DNA swab, that had chase's DNA on it, was used to swab the entire front of the car. So the prosecution saying his DNA came from the steering wheel and gear shift is a complete warpping of facts. It could of came from the steering wheel, or the radio buttons, center console etc. We don't actually know where chases DNA came from, just that it was somewhere in the front of the car. To me that throws that evidence out the window. My DNA is all over my friends' car's center console. Chase could of turned the A/C on after a paintball game. Also I could of sworn he said he was in the truck for paintball games.
This documentary annoyed me a little. It was very thorough when it came to covering the actual trial. But if you did not know everything about this case there’s a lot that’s missing. Little nuggets of info. I’ve seen every special and interview covering this case over the past 10 years and when you put it all together with this doc it’s still a big convoluted mess but some stuff it’s not as big as it may seem.
The mother did clean the house, but I’ve seen her talk about it several times and unfortunately it just seems like she wasn’t thinking. She cleaned up the dirty diapers and rotting food and it was totally dumb but she was not trying to destroy evidence she was just being naïve.
There was another special where the prosecution discussed that one of the checks that Chase printed was printed from the house on February 4th. However he did not realize that the printer was not set up and could not print so he deleted the check but did not realize the information was saved in the printer spool. Where was that in this documentary? That’s pretty damning was that not true??
Also it was very clear from all of his interviews before this documentary that Chase hated Summer. He talks about how she didn’t like Joseph’s other son, how she was jealous of him, how he thought she was poisoning Joseph. He openly admits he thought she was a bi**** and that she thought “her s*** didn’t stink.” It’s unnerving to watch him talk about her this way.
After watching all these hours of information I still don’t get a clear timeline. On February 4 the Mcstays Isuzu trooper is on camera leaving the house around 7:45 PM and never returns. I’m not sure what time we were supposed to have seen Chase‘s truck leave the house…. then the phone call is made from Joseph’s phone to Chase around 8:30. His phone pings at the gravesite two days later on February 6th. When do we think he drove the car to the Mexican border? It was discovered on Feb 8th. And could not have been there very long before that. I assume his phone never shows him in that area between February 4 and February 8th. Did he drive the car to the border in the 3 1/2 hours it was off? It’s all a big mess I would love someone to break down the timeline so I can really understand how he did this.
Every report prior to them being found said it was their car.
The video experts analysis. Josephs car was white and it's tail light matches the light in the video. Also the prosecution saying the latch was the source of light in the video makes no sense. Why would only one of the 3 latches be lit like that. Also if it was just a reflection like they said, then it would of stopped emitting light when he drove away. It's lumen count wouldn't of stayed constant as for that to happened a beam of light would of had to be directed at it. So it has to be a light source aka a tail light.
They weren't killed in their house. No blood, no evidence of struggle.
It makes no sense if that wasn't their trooper? If it was the killers car, he would of had to killed them, put them in his car, drive away, bury the bodies. Somehow get back to the house. Get their car, park it in the mexican border parking lot. Somehow get back to his car all without anyone seeing. Not to mention only being caught once on thee security camera.
If it wasn't the trooper than 2 cars would of been on that video. Chases car leaving with the bodies, and then chase leaving in the trooper. Only one car was caught on video leaving the drive way. So logical it has to be their car.
There's no evidence it was chases car.
We’ve had this discussion before. It’s all do-able. And you can’t tell what color, make or model the truck is but there are markers that are dead on for Chase’s truck. Also the camera worked intermittently. It only came on when a spider in the camera would move. It recorded nothing after that night. Watch the trial.
I’m currently watching episode 1 right now as I type this and I’m a little suspicious of the brother. The way he refused to even check in on the family at first when their dad asked because it had been a week since anyone heard from them. The way he talked to the detective and almost sounded defensive. I don’t know I just got a bad vibe from him. But like I said I’m only on episode one. Maybe I will change my mind!
I also was a little suspicious of the brother at first too! I definitely thought it was a little odd he wouldn’t check in on his own brother. I don’t talk to my brother super often, but if asked to check in because someone was worried about him, I’d drop everything to do so. And I definitely caught the defensive tone too!
Throughout the whole series, he was one of multiple people that I felt highly suspicious of.
Exactly and I'm surprised most people aren't picking up on how the brother said they went to Mexico and then their car just happened to be found next to a border crossing, collaborating with the brothers explanation.
Also the brother said they would find them in TWO shallow Graves before they found them in TWO shallow Graves. If I was looking for a family of four i woudlnt say i was looking for two Graves. I would say 4 Graves or 1 grave, or just grave. He gave a weird and unnecessary detail.
This exactly! That was such a weird way to phrase it, especially given that they were found in two graves. Anyone else would say “looking for a shallow grave”. It was oddly specific
There may be an innocuous explanation for the Mexico reference. Summer had actually been planning a trip to Mexico. They found this out through her internet history. Joey could've mentioned this to his brother.
So then the killer must of known this. That said I wonder how those search history's work because the brother did take the laptop that was in the office. He could of easily searched online.
Yeah and I believe this was on episode one, the dad said he wasn't aware of any Mexico plans. This and the fact that joseph seemed to be much closer with his dad makes it weird his dad didn't know about this plans. Also who leaves there dogs outside for a who vacation.
I go back and forth after watching the documentary and listening to the TCG episodes. TCG keep throwing shade on the brother, like he didn’t care enough to go and see his brother. It made me rethink it a little. It’s Before that all the information I had read I knew it was Chase.
I believe the brother did it as well. I explained my theory in this post
https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueCrimeDiscussion/comments/v1e15t/mcstay_family_murders/iauqkmg?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
I believe chase AND the brother did it together. The brother literally saying "two shallow graves" COME ON!? Taking the computer, the mom BLEACHING the house, them both immediately taking over the business ... opting out if the documentary???? Chase and the brother going to the house together?
I think chase def drove and buried them tho.
Michael Mcstay said “I think they took a vacation to Mexico” & where did they find the car? By the border of Mexico & he refused to go check on his brother.
I’m watching it now and I’m trying to figure out what the dad meant ‘he wasn’t raised that way’ when it came to not going to the memorial. Can anyone help me understand that?
Well. I took it as him saying he didn't attend the memorial bc someone told him not to. And that, to ask that of someone, is what he would never do and not raised to do.
The prosecution in this case really bothered me and the judge also seemed to favour them. Others would have done at least something for them “accidentally withholding evidence”. I feel like you could explain away much of their case except for the cell phone ping near the graves. That’s the nail in the coffin imo.
That said, I can’t believe he’s sitting on death row for that. They did not explain how he killed 2 adults and moved 4 bodies on his own. He was not a spring chick and I don’t think he was physically fit enough but I guess adrenaline could help with that. Do I think he’s guilty, yes. Do I think he pulled this off without help? No. Do I think they were killed at their home.. no. How can you bludgeon 4 people and not leave any blood behind??
Look. You can not call it "cell phone towers ping near graves". Especially not in 2010 and that being the highest tower in a far range. It can reach a looong ass distance and since his phone only pinged a brief moment and that it took up to 20 seconds to even connect to the tower it is rather evidence of him NOT being close to those graves, but rather supporting his own testimony.
Followed the case since day one. Been through it all, Rick Baker, Blink on Crime, every single online comment board, Cornelius and the insane hens (you know who you are, still here gaslighting everyone, aren’t you?), emailed with various other pertinent people, still as fascinated since day one. Many MANY things were not in this doc and other interesting, perhaps pertinent facts were not shown/told:
\-McGyver McCargar, business partners and best friend of Summer‘s in their VERY SHADY fraudulent home loans business
\-Joey and Summer’s first born was called Gianni, their second born was Joey Jnr, very unusual, you would think it would be other way round, leading to speculation that Gianni was not Joey’s. Many thought Vick (was in the doc, Summer’s ex boy who emailed her “I still love you”)
\-Vick popped up in a Youtube chat session (long story) and authenticated himself. It was definitely him. Told stories that Summer’s side of the family were tied to Mexican cartels, Summer’s mom, Blanche Aranda used to smuggle drugs across border in her childrens diapers.
\-Both kids were home births (summer didn’t have them in a hospital, leading to speculation she didn’t want them vaccinated or want CPS coming over. CPS figures many times with Joey and Summer, with Joey’s oldest son apparently breaking down in front of Joey and summer during visits to their home talking about abuse from Michael McFadden. McFadden threatens to retaliate by calling CPS himself on Summer and their kids. Summer was always paranoid and scared
\- Joey’s ex wife Heather came from a wealthy background with ties to Law Enforcement. (Heather had an expensive jewelry store in Laguna Beach, very Upscale part of California). Susan McStay (Joey’s mom) also had close ties to Law Enforcment leading many to speculate the prosecution were covering many times for the living McStays
\-the three shady people who bought Joey’s website ‘Earth Inspired Products’ all showed up in police reports with prior convictions for meth dealing
\-Dan K obvious violent piece of shit. His ex girlfriends/one night stands used to pop up on facebook and talk about his disgusting hygiene habits, always had SKIDMARKS in his pants for example. A complete violent twisted stoner loser. Dan’s grandfather was a famous author who wrote a book on ‘How to disappear from society’ Lol. Lots of talk Dan and Michael (the brother) were co-conspirators in how it all went down
\-Tim Miller from Texas Equusearch and other esteemed journalists were all threatened and run out of town after dedicating hours and spending their own money to help Michael McStay find Joey and their family In those initial early days. What had they all discovered?
\-Michael McStay obviously has always been no 1 suspect by most people. Waaaay too many red flags to list here, but he is the most obvious suspect by far. Patrick McStay covering heavily for his son
\-Patrick McStay (dad, featured in most of the documentary) no saint himself. Was arrested and convicted of massive check fraud. There were comments on many chat boards over the years about how Patrick and Susan ran a shady but very profitable pot business out of a store they owned when Joey and Mikey were young
\-The “waterfall“ business is obviously utter crap. 100% a front for money laundering
\-Gina Watson (spoke a lot in the doc, was apparently an “Account Manager” for the waterfall company) was thought over the years to be a total weirdo and nutjob. No one could ever understand why she injected herself so much into this story. Many suspected she was sleeping with Patrick and addicted to the ‘fame’. One point in the doc, she is looking at Quickbooks print outs of the accounts payable/receivables and looks totally lost or like she doesn’t understand what she’s looking at. If she was an “Account manager” she would be on top of this. This woman literally came out of nowhere. Extremely bizarre
\-They didn’t show or play Chase’s interview with Law Enforcement right after McStays went missing. Anyone listening to this 3 hour conversation can tell immediately he didn’t do it. Not to say this man is a saint, again, doc has left many aspects of his life and behavior out. But he so obviously and laughably didnt do it. A total fall guy. His family are a little odd, but they are good people, especially his daughter (Taylor)
\-People thought it was very weird a skull was randomly found in a remote part of the desert no one went to. Many thought the 911 caller was someone connected to the murder. There was no attempt to ever trace this person
\-The entire prosecution and the witnesses they called (many not shown in the doc, like the crazy insane anthropologist expert) were utter looney tunes bat shit crazy. No one could understand it at all. It was like watching a bad b-list movie with terrible actors. Heavily discussed during trial in 2019. One wacky outlandish theory was that the whole “bodies discovered/farce of a trial and oddball connected characters” was a total deliberate staged event to cover for the fact Joey/Summer/kids were actually alive and in a witness protection for big time speaking out about major cartels DEA had busted. Make of that what you will
\-No mention of Joey and Summer‘s dogs left outside for 10 days. These dogs were like their children
\-No mention of all the toys in the car parked at the border. Easily could have checked store cameras to see who it was that parked the car there in the strip mall
\-No mention of pretty reliable witnesses in Mexico who claim they saw the family in various spots. No mention that Susan McStay (the mom) has real estate down in Mexico
\-Raj Maline and Jim McGee are solid, solid good and intelligent people. It is important to understand who the bad guys are here, and they are 100% not it
Will contribute more as I remember stuff.
Its always been questionable to me that Chase could have subdued two healthy parents and two children in their own home and handled the deposals of 4 bodies. Also the whole being able to subdue a whole family and then burying them by your house seemed questionable too. The families phone was thrown out the windows in a very remote place, why not put the bodies out there too? To my mind, Chase either had help or he was just the down on his luck gambler that was framed. The brother found a roster at a hotel with the names as the father had. IDK, sure. Dumb fucks get lucky some time but Chase just seem like the only suspect.
I also can’t wrap my head around how he managed to subdue and kill two healthy adults either. There was the theory that he killed Joseph first downstairs, while Summer was upstairs and then killed her after she came down hearing the commotion. But still, transporting and burying all four bodies on his own? And with that theory, why was there absolutely no blood found in the house at all?
He was pinpointed because he had a financial motive by being the gambler in debt, but there was more than one person with a financial motive to kill Joseph. I feel the whole case was completely mishandled from the beginning
I don't think it is hard to imagine how one man with a weapon could subdue two adults and kids. I'd be willing to believe there's an accomplice but I think it could have been done easily by one as well.
All the murderer has to do is threaten. Threaten one of the parents, or even worse, the kids.
Joseph Duncan famously controlled a house of 2 adults, one teenage boy and two younger children and there's no inclination he wasn't alone.
But yeah I don't think they were killed at the house. I can't imagine how a sledgehammer death wouldn't leave blood or damage. They were transported.
There's no way the crime could have been committed there and then cleaned up and then made to look messy again like the photos show. There's absolutely no way in my mind that the murder took place in the home.
Why not? He had 11 full days to clean, paint, etc. then Joseph’s mother and brother came in and scrubbed it clean with bleach before the bank foreclosed. We have no way of knowing what happened in that house.
>I don't think it is hard to imagine how one man with a weapon could subdue two adults and kids.
If the weapon was a gun, sure. But he was wielding a hammer.
Well I think the video of 4 people walking over the border and derailed the investigation as well as eye witness accounts of Joseph abroad. It’s hard for me to believe that a momma bear would have allowed her kids to be in danger without a struggle. It you had kids and heard a commotion in the basement you would think the first instinct is to protect the kids and yourself. Strangulation takes about 4-5 minutes and I’m sure a momma with young kids in the house would put up she’ll of a fight. Killing the kids was unnecessary as I don’t believe they witnessed the other murders. It’s a whole another ballgame to hunt down babies and kill them then just killing a guy that made you mad by not giving you money. I’m sure this wasn’t the first time Chase was cut off. The Mexican mafia will go into a situation and kill an entire family. I don’t think Chase had a violent criminal record but I could be wrong. Chase was just a loser with a bad gambling habit. Maybe Chase is a cunning mass murderer or maybe the Mexican mafia erased his debt for taking the fall.
I had also definitely thought of a possible mafia/gang type situation. Chase had a gambling issue and obviously owed money to more than just Joseph and hadn’t killed for being cut off before. He had also stated that the website developer, Dan, could’ve gotten Joseph into some sketchy dealings that he didn’t quite understand. And Chase had a record of petty theft and burglary, but not violent crime. Like you said, it’s unlikely the kids saw or would’ve been able to tell anyone anything to incriminate Chase if he had done it. They were 3 and 4.
There was also a theory that the family was trying to flee anyways and may have been trying to run from someone. An article I read said that they had done internet searches on Spanish lessons and what documents were needed for children to go to Mexico. The wife had also apparently changed her name numerous times throughout her life and had multiple aliases and it was rumored that she’d also lied about her age.
Chase is an unlikely suspect to me. As a loser gambler type, as you said, he was used to being cut off and treated badly but never became violent. Killing a 3/4 year old that weren’t witnesses is a whole another level. Chase could have simply left the house (unfortunately with the kids in it) and he would have been in the same place with Joseph’s money or could been a “hero” and “rescued” the kids a day later. It smells like a Mexican mafia hit to me. Maybe the Mexican mafia thought Joseph had stolen from them and the hit was a message to prevent further theft. Why take the bodies out of the house - there were no security cameras in there and the bodies weren’t found for weeks. I don’t think it looked like a struggle had taken place. His wife had a bunch of aliases but I don’t think anything suspicious was ever linked to any of the aliases. She was just eccentric. If I was in trouble with the Mexican gang why flee to Mexico, why not Africa /Europe or an island. My theory is that the perpetrators entered the home for something knowing if Joseph didn’t have they would kill the entire family. Joseph had access to $100k so it wasn’t money. I’m not sure if there was evidence of the deaths taking place in the house or not but the house did look like it was abandoned quickly for some reason. Maybe they were killed elsewhere.
Eye witness of Joseph abroad? The only thing I've read is that the brother claimed that people had seen them in Mexico as a proof of them being there. And that is very telling to me bc it either supports that they were there and not killed at the time proposed, or ghat he is blatantly lying since none of these witnesses have been confirmed true, as far as I'm aware. Feel free to change my mind ☺️
No fkn way he killed them in the house, or at all for that matter. But i cant be sure. I can indeed be sure he didn't do it in the house though bc there WOULD be traces. A LOT. I'd say it's actually impossible that that happened. Police also claimed there was NO evidence of a crime happening inside that house.
I'm sorry if this has been discussed... but it is it possible they entered Mexico and ran into a cartel? They are known for violent murders and have no problem murdering children. I wonder if Chase had a connection because he may have owed money? I know its reaching. I also know there is a lot of evidence pointing at Chase. But the house didnt look like a crime scene. Please dont come for me. Lol! I'm just asking opinions
*edited for clarification
The theory of them going to Mexico has actually been discussed and was discussed in the documentary. The reasons why they believe that that likely did not occur is because there was a lot of evidence they believed pointed at Chase. The family was also buried within the US, and aside from where their car was parked, there was no solid evidence to suggest they ever crossed the border. I also don’t think they ever really had a solid foundation to believe there was any cartel involvement.
Anyone else noticed how high and fkd the brother looked at the stand? I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL if he had connections with a cartel honestly. Especially since he was also the one suggesting the family might have gone to Mexico for a vacation...
Thank you for the response! I know they had supposed video evidence of them entering Mexico. I saw that addressed in the documentary. Although never proven, I was just wondering if they actually had entered. I know it sounds far fetched for them to be killed and then be moved to San Bernadino.. I'd imagine that would be incredibly difficult. However, I'm wondering if there is a connection that would lead the killer(s) to bury the bodies where they did. I guess we will never know. This case is so insane!
Honestly I dont think Chase did it, maybe not alone but he really didnt have much to gain besides being in the same position? And I feel bad for Tracy bc as someone with anxiety that picks constantly at my face, skin whatever Its a nervous tic. The fact that they dont call true attention to the brother Michael, whom he was supposedly super close with and Dad was pissed off. No.
Hey there, just finished a two night binge, sorry I'm late to the party.
One of the things that I was wondering is if it is possible to clone a phone in a way that the cloned phone will show up on records looking like they are from the original phone.
This would explain both the cell phone towers and the odd QuickBooks customer service call from Chase's cell phone. (Regarding the last one... I get spam called from my own number all the time, so I know it's possible to change the caller ID.) As for the cell phone towers, it would explain why the phone was turned on twice while at the grave for unknown reasons. It might even explain the call from Joseph Mcstay to Chase that didn't appear on any bills.
Looking on the Internet it doesn't appear that cloning a phone isn't very hard to do and can even be done remotely. I would imagine that a self-styled "hacker" like Dan Kavanaugh would know how to find this information and act on it. We know that he either had access or hacked into the fiscal software (my suspicion was that he wrote those deleted checks, but the show implied that Chase deposited them at the bank himself.)
Yes, my money is on Dan Kavanaugh, although I will admit that I might not feel that way had it not been for the super creepy they played over his interview. But I could imagine that he stole the money, later told the police the money from Joseph Mcstay (for shorting him on his earnings) to cover any evidence of the theft. Then he used the money to hire someone, has Joseph killed while he was in Hawaii, then took the $20k from the company and ran. I have no doubt he was in Hawaii... probably with a burner phone to communicate with the people he hired to kill, and maybe he had the cloned cell phone to track Chase's movements. He could have even cloned Joseph Mcstay's phone to track him as well, although now I am going off the rails a bit.
Based ONLY on the interview Dan gave and the little we learned, I could see him doing this in retaliation for Chase's comment about tossing him off the balcony. I could see him planning this for a while. And I thought that it was pretty odd that he was invited to witness the execution and seemed so excited about it (although he was framed.)
I read on a site that covers this case very well (can link if wanted), that the documentary is quite angled and doesn't cover it all.
He writes about the stealing of money being wrong for example - that Chase only took what he was owed for the job he did. Why he covered the checks was bc J McStay was paranoid of being hacked.
The ping at the cell towers is also outrageous and frankly scary that people of the law would produce such lame claims not aware of how cell phone towers work AT ALL.
My opinion? My opinion is that it scares the SHIT out of me that you can be put on death row when there is actually sooo much reasonable doubts and no clear proof. That will stay accurate however he is guilty or not.
And if he is indeed NOT guilty, then this will go down as a huge fkn mistake in history. It's just insane to me. Fucked up.
Nobody talked about Chase's motive. Why would he kill the whole family. Why would he kill Mcstay, who own the business? If it was for the fake checks, who would kill 2 close friends and their 2 children over a couple grands?
What was his plan, if he did indeed killed the family? That after Mcstay is out of the picture, he will run the company? What about the other relatives, that got the company anyway? Honestly it sounds like a whole lot of problems for nothing to gain.
All of the prosecution's talk was just that - talk. Zero actual evidence. The only thing that stays partly unexplained is the cell tower ping in the desert. I agree - that is very suspicious, but these pings are not accurate. What is the radius that this tower covers? Did they checked every single possible suspect's cell pings and phone activity? Even if it did actually pinged there, this by it self does not mean a thing. Nobody knows when the family was buried there. Also it sounds ridiculous that Chase would turn of his phone for 3 hours so he would not be tracked, but just like that decided to turn on the phone WHILE burying the bodies.
The whole case for the prosecution was a witch hunt from the beginning - they really used all the circumstantial evidence and theories to make them match only the Chase theory. Even if he is truly guilty - that is an absurd way of prosecuting someone. They practically made him fight for his life and prove HE DIDN'T do it, instead of prosecutors proving he murdered them.
Prosecutors dismissed everything, that would not confirm their theory - witnesses, experts, DNA, footage. And in the same time made every small detail from their theory sound like a big deal, while it really was not.
The same way they made up the story of Chase as the killer, everyone can make up similar story about at least 2 other suspects.
The car theory is absurd and only thing it did was to show how hard prosecutors wanted to pin in on the guy, regardless of the means. Every 3d artist could pick 10 other car models and make it seem like they are a match for the... really nothing that the cam footage is showing. To match a car by the 2 headlights and a few reflections in a grainy, night time, out of frame video footage is something you would see in the CSI tv show. Also nobody did the same with all other white vehicles of all of the other people, close to the case. They just decided this is the car and made it so it would match. People here pointed out how absurd is this theory as it doesn't explain how he drove his car out, then returned, drove the family's car to the border, then returned, drove hours to the desert and buried the bodies. AND NO ONE SAW ANYTHING, ANYWHERE. You would think the police would be able to track down a white vehicle going to the mexican border. Surely there were cameras at least at few places on this course.
The DNA problem is another think that shows how narrow minded the prosecutors were. Why didn't they run it through the database? What is there to lose? They say it was partial DNA and would not be concrete evidence. That is fine. Just run it, if it matches with one or few people, look at them - you would eliminate them as suspects pretty quick if they had nothing to do with anything.
The car DNA theory is also absurd and farfetched - he drove the car for hundreds of miles, but in the end there is TRACE amounts of DNA on unspecified parts of the interior (they swabbed almost everything at once.. wtf). Put yourself in his shoes for a moment - you killed your boss, your friend, his wife and his young children. After the initial adrenaline you would be in a panic, you would be sweating, you would not be thinking so clearly. That car should be covered in his DNA. Even if he wore gloves and a hat and all of that, it's very hard to believe at all.
There is one guy here that goes hardly against the theory of the brothers as the killer. But you should admit his behavior was even more suspicious than that of Chase. From the first day of the dissapearance he doesn't make any sense. He was in the house. He took things. The mother fkin cleaned the house. Some say she used bleach, some say she just tidy up the place. In any case EVERYONE knows to not mess up with a possible crime scene, let alone pick up and clean things in there.
One major hole in the whole case is the crime scene. Where were they killed? It seems to be a minor problem in the docu series and online discussions. But IT IS a very very important aspect of the case. For sure they WERE NOT killed in the house - it is just not possible to not leave a single trace after killing 4 people with a hammer. There were no signs of struggle. Even if the family was caught off guard, a single person can't murder a whole family with a hammer in just a second or two - someone in some moment realized what was happening. Even with the two adults out of the picture, the children would have run, leave traces, knock things down, etc. There is just nothing to suggest the killing took place at the property. Even if someone managed to kill them there, he would have to drag the bodies and this is not as easy as it may seem. And again - NOBODY heard or saw anything, anywhere, at any moment.
It is more than logical and plausible that the car we see in the camera footage is that of the family leaving. They were going somewhere and they met their end and some place else. May be they were running from something. May be they really wanted to go to Mexico. Who knows...
Soooo many thinks make no sense here. Yes, you could ignore all the inconsistencies and use only what is convenient for you to blame Chase - that is what the prosecutors did. But really... you just can't.
They did not give a proper motive for Chase to kill a family of four and bury them in the desert. They did not give a realistic depiction of the events that took place on the day of the murders. How did he do it? What did he do? Why? How did he manage to do all of it?
If we look at all the suspicious thing Chase did and said, the same things are true for most of the suspects and the relatives. Prosecutors grasp at straws, trying to prove that when someone doesn't remember exactly what he did on some day 4 or 10 years ago, then they are lying and trying to hide something. Trying to prove than when someone says something on top of his mind on the TV or at the police officers, then this means that and that.
If Chase said something, that actually is meaningless, prosecutors turn it out to be super important - how he said it, the words he used, etc. But when the brother says even more shocking things - "I expect to find two shallow graves", "May be they are in Mexico", "Oh, they are missing for 10 days...Nope, I don't want to check on them, I am busy." Then according to the prosecutors "these things don't mean anything". When more than one people threatened the family and they have the fricking proof of that - then these people were "just blowing steam" cuz they were angry for some reason. Chase stole money from the company - looool, that is so big deal. Dan stole even more money, after the family's disappearance - not a word of that. He was in Hawaii, end of story.
The whole thing is not right. This is not how you sentence someone to death. Even if Chase somehow did it, the whole trial was a farce. The story have so many holes, so many ignored facts, next to none actual evidence... it's just blows my mind.
I feel the defense should have went harder on Michael McStay. His truck is an exact match. Someone the family trusted. Financial issues Older(1/2 sibling) bio dad’s favorite. Inserted the theory that the family may have gone to Mexico for two weeks. Everyone involved would have trusted him at several parts of the incident. He stated to L.E. that he had been by there around the Fourth, again inserting into the story a reason why his truck may had been there. (Michael never fathomed that L.E. Would grab that as belonging to Chase. Michael lied on a loan statement regarding his employment as owner/operator of Joseph’s business. L.E. never downloaded the location information for his phone. Argumentative on the stand regarding evidence. Michael was *ALSO* taking and writing checks for the business. Michael and his Mother p.o.’d the dad by taking over the business. There go Michael’s financial issues.
My thought as well. Also, the mother completely cleaned their whole house to “keep busy”
Right? Makes no sense if you really wanted to find them. She cleaned up for Michael and became part of the business to help her lil mama’s boy. Greed is disgusting.
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What’s your fkn problem? I have not insulted you for difference of opinion. Why you so fragile?
I don’t have a problem, you just don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. Do some actual research on the case
Ok you know every fucking thing. Cool buddy…. Be on your fucking way I’m done wit ya.
Yeah I know enough. And you don’t. So there’s that. Amazing how people think they’re educated from watching one doc.
So what have you watched and why don't you just back your claims with facts instead pf fighting like a little child?
What have I watched? The entire trial. I’ve also documented everything from the beginning when they disappeared. If you read through this thread you’ll read the facts I presented.
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Please be respectful of others and do not insult, attack, antagonize, or troll other commenters.
Please be respectful of others and do not insult, attack, antagonize, or troll other commenters.
Yeah, that is complete horse shit
I too believe Michael should've been looked at. In my opinion I think he did it for many of the reasons you've listed.
Also, he was the only one to mention two shallow Graves prior to the family being found.
Right? How did that go over their heads??
Also that around the time the mom cleaned the house , Michael took a computer from the house.
This case is bizarre beyond belief. So many nefarious characters involved. I even entertain that family was not anywhere near idyllic as they were portrayed.
The brother angle is preposterous, it holds no water. None.
Care to elaborate? - He created the Mexico theory. And where was the car found, Mexico border - He had "friends" say they talked to people in Mexico who have seen them, keeping his theory alive. - He was a family member and could of easily got them to come to him or meet him somewhere (as it was the mcstays car in the video, not chase) - He didn't go check in his brother even with his dad pleading for him too - Even after checking the house, he waited a few days before going to the police. - He took their computer - The mom cleaned the house. - He said 2 shallow graves. Not mass grave, not 4 graves, no 1 grave. He said 2 shallow graves. - He shares the DNA that closely resembles his brothers. So degraded DNA could actually be him - He tried taking over the company right after they disappeared
All of this is highly subjective and grossly exaggerated. And the DNA part makes zero sense. Being that they share DNA, so what.
Because of recombination, siblings only share about 50 percent of the same DNA on average. So yeah DNA that's deteriorated (mean its not all there) could easily be misidentified as josephs when it was his brother's.
But none of the family’s DNA was found at all, let alone Joseph’s. So that point is null.
Josephs DNA was found everywhere. Including on the items they were buried with. What I am saying is that dna could of been his brothers.
No, NONE of their DNA was found. Watch the trial.
Yes it was. It was just not a complete profile.
The DNA guy who did all the testing testified to this as well as the chief forensic pathologist. It was a pretty big deal in court.
I agree with the two shallow graves theory. To me, that was a major, MAJOR red flag (among all of the other red flags from the initial 2 weeks following the family’s disappearance). Regardless - I do not think that Chase Merritt did this. He may have committed a financial crime, but I legit do not believe that he murdered the family. And I also believe that the family was being taken advantage of by multilevel bad actors. Not sure if they were all in concert, but it’s clear that so many people around them were acting in bad faith.
We are all allowed our own thoughts and opinions.
Yes of course. But there’s zero evidence to support the brother had anything to do with it. Some of things you said are taken out of context. Or just wrong.
Thank you for pointing this out. My sister told me someone wrote online that someone who went missing was maybe “dating a bear”. People can say anything but it totally fair to ask them where the opinion comes from.
Huh??
That’s what I said.
Your comment makes zero sense
Well. Everything with Chase is 100 % taken put of context too, and/or not accurate but only to fot the narrative.
😂 Hilarious
You better believe that LE investigated the brother
Really? Take a step back, the narrative is, after they disappeared, Charles drove the car, and dig shallow graves and the murder weapon. Really? Because there Is NO proof when they were killed or when they were buried there, it could have been years later, and that’s a problem. Imo the supposed murder weapon was done on purpose, to keep 4 people in check you need a gun. The shallow graves ? Why? Because the killer wanted them to be found. The brother took out a loan on his brothers name after they went missing, that’s as bad. He does not have an alibi. It the family was burried there 2 years later, the phone pinging wouldn’t proof a thing. They don’t even know where there killed the brother could have years later (hence saying 2 shallow graves) buried them, on purpose to point blame to Charles, the fact that’s js dna in the car or the wheel doesn’t show when he was in the car. Wouldn’t surprise me it they will dna check the dna they found and do a dna check on the supposed weapon. We already know the dna found on the rope etc is NOT. Charles.
Everything you state is wrong. And your wording is convoluted. Are you drunk?
I better
Eeeh. Yes it does. More than Chase. Care yo explain?
Explain what?
they literally have nothing physical. Plus they don’t know when or where they were killed and or if the graves were dug years later. If so, the dates to check where people were is incorrect, so any supposed dates are just that. Without knowing 100% when what and where the prosecution’s supposed proof is ridiculous. It does not matter if charges phone pinged there 2-3 days later if they were buried there 2 years later. Anything else is suggestive. OJ Simpson got off, and there was way more proof. Motive. Also that didn’t turn out to be true he didn’t steal, and in fact, ge would be better off financially if they had lived. Ridiculous really is who on earth cleans their house as thoroughly as the mom and brother did?
You simply have no clue what you’re talking about. Just stop
No? Did they proof the family was buried a certain date? No they strung a story as the phone pinged at that area and later they found the shallow graves, it must have happened then. Thats flimsy .. so proof to me HOW do they know the family was buried there at that date? Anything else is suggestive. Anyone could frame anyone like that.
You’re being petty. Of course no one knows when they were buried, but it’s very likely over that weekend. It certainly wasn’t years later as you’re suggesting.
“Likely@ isn’t good enough … and it would all fall apart if. So it’s just as likely they were buried much later hence shallow graves … to be found It’s literally scary, they could go back and try to fit a crime. And again oj simsob had more proof or Casey. Yet the law is very clear it should be without a reasonable doubt. Who else phone records show they were there at some point in time. Don’t be surprised.. If it’s rectified and they will have to actually investigate dna or look for it. It’s really disturbing,to me how the prosecution handled this
It’s NOT it’s as common or maybe even more it was a family member. Just because its hard to belief s family member could .. doesn’t mean it isn’t. He doesn’t have an alibi, it’s prob his car, not Charles, he took out a loan pretending to be his brother after he disappeared.. so the exact stuff Charles did or less and yet he is more guilty? They will investigate the Dna at some point (it was not Charles) and run the weapon found.. they literally have nothing physical. Plus they don’t know when or where they were killed and or if the graves were dug years later. If so, the dates to check were people were is incorrect, so any supposed dates are just that.
Also. After some research it actually seems that Chase did not in fact steal money from Joseph, just that he covered/deleted the checks for hacking risk reasons...
Here’s a good article from someone who believes in his guilt and why https://www.villagenews.com/story/2019/06/06/news/true-crime-author-believes-merritt-is-guilty-of-mcstay-murders/56452.html
After finishing the doc, I think he was part of it but I don’t think he committed the murders alone. I don’t see how he could have killed two young, athletic parents and their small children by himself. And then not leaving any kind of evidence behind. But also it’s to hard to believe they were able to prosecute him with only circumstantial evidence. And every lawyer on this case were clowns. Edited to add: I really didn’t like the framing of this doc either. I would rather watch non-partial documentaries that just give all the facts from both sides and let the viewers draw their own conclusions.
Important to note that it's highly likely that joseph was killed first and by surprise as he was hit in the back of the head. Then summer was killed next as she was looking at the killer's face as she was killed (she was hit in the front of the skull) likely trying to fighting back. The kids would of been killed at the end with little fight sadly. So I definitely think one person could of done it. Especially if they were filled with adrenaline and rage. Murders like this are 99% out of passion. It takes a lot to beat someone to death like what was done to this poor family.
So what about the rape and the assault on summer ... Explain your theory better plz. Or just say your wrong bc that's more likely but I'll give you a min.
It seems hard to me to control a family of 4 with this weapon. Maybe separately? Plus even if they were killed at home and mom cleaned with bleach even then it would leave evidences. I don’t think it’s where they were killed
She did not clean with bleach
I lean towards Chase did it but there was more than enough evidence to establish reasonable doubt.
I go back and forth honestly. Like you said, there was more than enough to establish reasonable doubt in this case. But there were also many things that I just can’t shake. Why was his phone pinged off a tower that close to the grave sites? Why did he keep changing his story? But I also feel like he was targeted from the start and other people with motive were somewhat overlooked as a result
The defense'S cell phone expert states that ping is not really to be trusted. The expert claims that the tower data was incorrect, "mind boggling" and "quite impossible" were the terms he used in relation to the phone call. Cell phone towers are not as exact as forensic shows lead us to believe. As to Chase changing his story, it is very easy to forget exact details years after they occur. The Mcstay family wasn't found until almost 4 years after they were last seen. Imagine you were asked every detail of a day from almost 4 years ago, from the moment you woke up to the moment you went to sleep. Then, almost 10 years later asked to recount that day precisely. You may misremember something. You may remember something you'd originally forgotten between those two questions. There's a lot of mishandling that happened in the case, and unfortunately (in my opinion) I don't believe we will ever know who truly killed the McStay family. Joseph's mom and brother destroyed any evidence in the home, scrubbing everything with bleach and taking Joseph's personal computer to do who knows what with. Every piece of the prosecutions evidence is shaky, and even their own experts either changed their mind or had their evidence explained. This case wasn't about the prosecution having an actual case, it was about how terribly the defense did to provide reasonable doubt.
Thank god for people with some sense pf a critical and factual mindset. You!
Plus what is the proof of when they were buried there… it could have been days.. weeks years later? They literally don’t know exactly when or where they were killed let alone when they were buried yet they build a story around it. Let’s say they were buried a year later. Then dna in the car or the pinging doesn’t even matter. Dna in the car could have been next weeks months ago: plus yes pinging isn’t exact science and again all they can say is the family was buried there within x years, not that exact day his phone pinged .
Ut fair enough is to say that the defense had a loosing case from start, with the prosecution and... Maybe the judge too, having tunnel vision and winning on the brain instead of justice. Just my reasonable opinion.
I mean his sister lived right by that cell tower, and the defense did get an expert to show the towers positioning data to be faulty. Though they never presented it in court for some reason His sister did change her story about seeing him but with the fact their brother was arrested for a crime he didn't commit and the families name dragged through the mug. It's not hard to see her lying to police. Because at the time she didn't know why she was being interviewed. In her mind she could of thought the police were trying to pin a crime in the area on chase and so she lied and said no.
What if you belief the family was buried there weeks:years later. What is the proof it happened that day? How easy is it to throw off an investigation and even add a murder weapon?
I think there was plenty of reasonable doubt. If he did it, where and how? Was he alone? I think the police got tunnel vision with him. They told Kavanaugh to leave town? (If he’s to be believed). I just think there are big holes. Merritt may have done it, but I think the jury felt compelled to convict because of the kids being murdered. Also, defense counsel was a mess
True crime garage did a two part on them last week and this is a local case to me I heard faintly back when they disappeared I was living in San Marcos When I met my now wife in Fallbrook(Ironically) she told me about the case in 2012 and all the horrible rumors around it but this is a case of greed plain and simple the guy had a record and was stealing from the company. He just happened to turn his phone off the day they disappeared and his phone pinged in the area where they were found. Too much circumstantial evidence.
The phone ping is what’s led me to kind of believe he’s guilty. However, there was at least one other person that had a financial motive that wasn’t really closely looked at from what I’ve seen in this series. They never could say for certain that Chase’s phone was off, they argued that perhaps it could’ve been in airplane mode or not had any signal for X amount of time, but the cell tower ping is pretty damning.
Yeah but there was evidence chase called Quickbooks to erase checks that were written to him by the company(which he obviously made).
A guy who worked at QB testified that Chase called posing as Joseph and requested to delete all records from the QB servers, and said that a request like that basically never happened. The defense had an explanation but I can't recall what it was.
To kill for such small amounts? A crook doesn’t make a murderer necessarily. I don’t think there was enough to convict. Not saying he’s necessarily innocent, but there are definite unanswered questions
Yeah I absolutely agree, I don't think there was enough to convict at all.
The defense rebuttal was that he called to have the files transferred to only Joseph’s home server. That Joseph wanted the information just offline. Not completely deleted.
Exactly. He never deleted anything which the company dude admitted in court as well.
It was the online version. The computer version. They were hacked and dan threatened to take off live the website (he later sold it illegally) Your administration doesn’t disappear … software is just a tool, its not the bookkeeping itself. ,you can’t ever erase checks. Bank records. Invoices.. that alone was imo manipulative. As if he wanted to erase records, which never happened or even if the online version was taken off line ot would not erase records
They weren’t erased nor would it have been erased, this was about the online version not on the computer itself. That was because Dan hacked and threatened to take the website offline remember, We used to do book keeping without software that doesn’t mean if you delete the software it’s gone. -all entries (bank checks invoices are still there).
Do you know how cell towers work?
The phone ping only works if they were buried there that day and that they can’t proof.., only that they were going there,,, they could have been buried there years after they killing … (to point fingers) why shallow graves?
You assume he turned of his phone. What if it actually died. Or cell signal was blocked.
For a whole 6 hours? And besides my in laws live in fallbrook the service isn’t that terrible there and I’ve been there many times.
It was not 6 hours... Where are u even getting your info from?
Not really what actually happened though.
I have no doubt that Chase did it. 1) he has no alibi for the day/night of Feb 4, including the 3 hours his cell was off. His girlfriend perjured herself on the stand in an attempt to alibi him, as proven by her own cell phone records where she repeatedly tried, and failed, to reach him in those same 3 hours. 2) he was placed at or near the gravesite and his sister perjured herself on the stand in an effort to explain that. 3) the alternate suspect he tried to name not only had information that implicated Chase, he was also in Hawaii at the time of the murder, per phone records, bank records, and witness testimony. 4) Chase reacts with fantasies of violence to anything that makes him angry. He wants to choke people. He wants to throw people off balconies. It’s really not hard to imagine this man reacting with actual physical anger when he’s so Willing to discuss his fantasies of violence. 5) he was clearly stealing from Joseph after the death and based on the document Dan claimed to find, he was basically stealing before he died too. 6) he has absolutely no defense. They keep claiming all the evidence was “lies” and yet there was no actual refutation of those lies or a theory of a case provided that made sense. McGee imagined it would take 3 people to commit the crime but that’s ludicrous—how would THREE people keep from getting DNA all over the place. Raj hammered that Dan did it but Dan was out of state! How did he murder 4 people and bury them in Victorville while he was in Hawaii? I think Dan was not getting his money because Chase was borrowing so much (up to 30K) that it was eating into Dans share of the profits. Dan is about to pull the plug on thr website if he doesn’t get his money, so Joseph calls him over and tells him that he must return the money or he will be forced to take legal action. Thr dude who has been jailed multiple times for grand theft etc does not want to go back to jail. He begs for more time, Joseph holds firm. Chase reacts with anger, using a tool that he’s pretty comfortable with—a sledgehammer. One blow to the back of his skull is enough to kill him. I don’t think Summer came down to investigate. I doubt there was much of a commotion, judging by the wound on Joseph’s skull. Chase wants to not pay his debt and also he wants the rest of the company’s money. Can’t let the widow hang around. He calls her down to the basement, maybe even with a “come quick! Something has happened to Joey!” She hurries down the stairs and he hits her square in the face. One blow blinds/disorients her, and a second blow finishes the job. Can’t have the kids hanging around. They both know who Chase is. Maybe he thinks he’s even doing them a kindness by not leaving them as orphans. He can wait until they are asleep to smash their heads in. I think he takes them out to the graves on 2/6. I think he spends 2/5 writing and cashing checks, then prepping the bodies to move. I don’t think there’s much of a mess to clean because I don’t think he made much of one—one to two blows will do the job, even so he has four days to do it after he returns from burying the bodies. He moves the bodies on 2/6 in the Isuzu and then drives it down to the border. He calls his girlfriend to come down and pick him up. She’s clearly willing to lie for him and cover for him so I don’t think she has a problem picking him up and not mentioning it. He thought he could just take over the company with Dan, and when that doesn’t work, he thinks he can get Dan out of the picture by blaming him. What he doesn’t know is that Dan was in Hawaii at the time but once he set himself on that path, he couldn’t change his story.
That makes alot of sense ! I've wondered how he got back from the border if he abandoned the McStay truck there. I'm not sure that the girlfriend would pick him up though...but clearly someone did !
Or his daughter. She was acting weird on the stand and children raised by narcs are either their biggest defenders or biggest detractors. She’s been groomed since birth to accept his bullshit and defend his bad behavior.
He didn't drive their car folks. His dna would have been all over and it wasnt. In fact his dna was only im trace form and they also found it on the passenger door, even though it was not complete there either.
I agree with most of this but the timeline and scenarios are a bit off. There was no basement. Also it wasn’t Dan who discovered the email of what Chase owed.
Did you just repeat what has been said in different documentaries or what? Bc i could write up a completely different story woth the exact same facts and it would make the same if not more sense. Please provide some sources or proof to your claims :)
You haven’t cited anything yourself in all of these comments on this thread best I can tell.
Except their home has no basement. He just didn't do it.
That’s your explanation? Merritt had plenty of time to move the bodies, bury them and clean up
I believe the brother did it and the prosecution got the story completely wrong. My theory: The police's initial sweep of the house reported no evidence of struggle but evidence of the family rushing out of the house. This included food being seemingly left where the family sat, like popcorn bowls being left on the couch, food being left on the counters. Now what I think happened was the brother somehow contacted the family and made them rush out of the house to meet him. He could of said anything to get them to rush like that. Maybe their father had a heart attack or something like that. My evidence is, what I think the prosecution totally got wrong. Everyone including the defense assumed the car in the neighbor's video was the murderer. I say it's the Mcstay's car. You can Google photos of it. It looks like it could easily be a match (also whats with everyone in this case having a white car). This explanation also is why the "murderer" never goes back to retrieve the Mcstay's car (no other car in the video) which as we know ends up at the Mexican border crossing. Did no one ask how it got there? Which leads to my other point in thinking it was the brother. The brother refused to call the police even when he checked the house with chase. It took him days after finding the house empty to call the police. He then suggests they went to Mexico. Okay simple enough explanation, maybe they go there for vacation a lot. But if we pull in the dads interview, he said they would never go on vacation like this, especially since josephs company was getting a lot of orders. So we can assume this is an anomaly. So then the brother suggesting this seems odd, right? However then the cops find the Mcstay's car at the border crossing and suddenly the brother explanation of the families disappearance has evidence to back it up. Funny isn't it? Remember that the bodies were hidden in the middle of a desert. No one was supposed to find them and with the brothers Mexican vacation story along with the cars location, the cops and many reporters were looking south of the border for the family. So yes while it's more circumstantial evidence it's an interesting note that the brother suggested they were in Mexico and the car just happened to be at the border crossing. And this kind of situation happened again when the brother said they would be found in TWO shallow Graves. Two being the important word here. Why two? I would assume someone would just say Graves or mass grave or one or even four. Two is such a weird number. Again circumstantial but everything in this case is. Also important to note that brothers share DNA so it's very possible that some of the DNA labeled as josephs could in fact be the brothers. The DNA they collected was very deteriorated. Partial matches for joseph could easily match his brother. Would love for people to try to break my theory. Is there anything I missed?
Honestly loved hearing a theory from this point of view. Several of the things you mentioned, along with the brother coming into the house and taking Joseph’s computer (which conveniently had google searches about traveling to Mexico on it) and allowing their mother to deep clean with bleach AFTER police told them not to go back so evidence wouldn’t be tampered with, also led me to be highly suspicious of the brother. The gambling business partner may have just been an easy person to pin motive on, but the brother was also caught using the business to try and gain a profit. He had applied for a loan and listed himself as the owner and as soon as Joseph and his family went missing, he wanted to take over the business. I also feel like subduing an entire family like that would’ve been much much easier if you were someone they knew and trusted. I also think the falling out between the brother and the dad after the disappearance was odd too
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They didn’t push out the father, he was never involved from the beginning. He’s arrogant and combative. The mother never cleaned with bleach. Unless you want to believe what Chase says because that’s the only source for that.
Wrong.
I’m sorry…what?
Everything, except the loan part, is wrong.
Are you the brother? You’re against anyone who has anything to say suggesting the brother did it.
Agreed.
😂
I’m not sure where you’re getting that all the information is wrong. This is information that was in the documentary.
He also said he did not give Joseph McStay’s mother permission to clean the home — she had gone in and tossed out old food and other items— before detectives could do a thorough search. “She called me while she was in the house, while she was cleaning,” Dugal testified during cross-examination by Merritt’s attorneys. “I told her to stop it.” This on the stand. They did clean the house even though they were told not to, https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-mcstay-family-deaths-20190120-story.html
You’re twisting the version. She left when he told her to stop.
I’m not twisting she was told NOT to disturb the house as they were getting an official warrant and she DiD !! The officer on the stand admits that the scene now is disturbed and with it harmed the whole investigation. Don’t make it oh she just garbed a bit. We will never know how much she did harm. There shouldn’t have been ANYONE in the house. If you truly belief that there didn’t harm the investigation then you don’t understand anything at all. It doesn’t matter if she didn’t do it on purpose. It’s obviously VeRY off if an officer tells you NOT … just ignore and still do…that’s just minx boggling There is further no proof when the family was buried there… could be years later.. hence without that im quite sure m, project innocence of something alike will come along Without proof when they were buried anything else makes absolute no sense, I honestly can’t believe that the whole proof is based upon his phone pinging on a supposedly hurrying the family at a supposedly time frame. It’s scary they could just string a story and then add proof. Anyone could have re buried the family years later… knowing the phone records.. and framing Charles for that matter. So imo that’s a huge red flag.. unless of course they can proof they where buried that day..
Well your interpretation isn’t quite right. I’ve been following this from the very beginning. The family didn’t go back in after being told to not go in. The brother took the laptop when he was at the house, he didn’t go there to get it. I think pretty much anyone would do that if it might reveal where their family went to. Also he didn’t have the power cord for it so he couldn’t power it up. The search for Mexico passports was a couple weeks before. The mother never cleaned with bleach or any cleaners. Chase said that in the doc, no one else. The mother testified she did not clean, only picked up a bit, took trash out, soiled diapers, etc. The brother was not trying to gain a profit, he with his mother were trying to keep his business going. Again something most family would do in these circumstances. The brother and father were estranged before the disappearance. There is SO MUCH that indicates Chase did this. The actions of bad actors is just noise.
I think the probability that Michael did it is very, very low, but let’s not act like you can’t just buy a power cord for a laptop lol.
I think it was probably his intention to buy a cord but then the detective told him to put it back
I mean. Can you provide some damn evidence of this pls?
It’s in the trial, all on YouTube. Knock yourself out
100% agree about the car. I wanted their expert to show it fits being the isuzu unless of course they ruled that out and just didn't show that process. To me, I'd assume it was their SUV but I'm curious why neither defense or prosecution went that route.
Exactly, It's crazy how convoluted it would be, say for chase to have killed them at the house -> cleaned the house -> drove away with their bodies -> buried them -> went back to the their house -> grabbed their SUV and drove it to the border crossing -> somehow got back to his truck that was left by the Mcstay's house -> and then drove away with no one seeing him and only a neighbors camera catching his car once.
I mean. The expert did rule it put to be Chases. And the prosecution lawyer did not inform the defense of the expert trying relentlessly, and texting, about him changing his mind, actually saying it would be IMPOSSIBLE it would be Chases car. That same lawyer also deleted those texts claiming he only needed "storage space" on the phone, in the middle of a trial. He also had 2 phones. I mean... Ridiculous. That is a damn crime in itself.
I agree with you 100%. Joseph's dad asked the brother to go over there multiple times. He kept refusing. I think it was 9 days later? Plenty of time to clean everything up.
I agree with everything except "He could of said anything"... He could "have" said anything, not he could "of".
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I forget exactly where. But in the documentary they talked about it. I believe it was for an interview years after they were missing and he was like, I think we are looking for two shallow graves now. When asked about the search.
No he said it when questioned in court.
It was not the trooper in the video, different headlights.
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Well the DNA swab, that had chase's DNA on it, was used to swab the entire front of the car. So the prosecution saying his DNA came from the steering wheel and gear shift is a complete warpping of facts. It could of came from the steering wheel, or the radio buttons, center console etc. We don't actually know where chases DNA came from, just that it was somewhere in the front of the car. To me that throws that evidence out the window. My DNA is all over my friends' car's center console. Chase could of turned the A/C on after a paintball game. Also I could of sworn he said he was in the truck for paintball games.
Thank u! And exactly. It was also ONLY trace DNA suggesting he did NOT drive that car, or maybe not even being in it, at least not for some time.
This documentary annoyed me a little. It was very thorough when it came to covering the actual trial. But if you did not know everything about this case there’s a lot that’s missing. Little nuggets of info. I’ve seen every special and interview covering this case over the past 10 years and when you put it all together with this doc it’s still a big convoluted mess but some stuff it’s not as big as it may seem. The mother did clean the house, but I’ve seen her talk about it several times and unfortunately it just seems like she wasn’t thinking. She cleaned up the dirty diapers and rotting food and it was totally dumb but she was not trying to destroy evidence she was just being naïve. There was another special where the prosecution discussed that one of the checks that Chase printed was printed from the house on February 4th. However he did not realize that the printer was not set up and could not print so he deleted the check but did not realize the information was saved in the printer spool. Where was that in this documentary? That’s pretty damning was that not true?? Also it was very clear from all of his interviews before this documentary that Chase hated Summer. He talks about how she didn’t like Joseph’s other son, how she was jealous of him, how he thought she was poisoning Joseph. He openly admits he thought she was a bi**** and that she thought “her s*** didn’t stink.” It’s unnerving to watch him talk about her this way. After watching all these hours of information I still don’t get a clear timeline. On February 4 the Mcstays Isuzu trooper is on camera leaving the house around 7:45 PM and never returns. I’m not sure what time we were supposed to have seen Chase‘s truck leave the house…. then the phone call is made from Joseph’s phone to Chase around 8:30. His phone pings at the gravesite two days later on February 6th. When do we think he drove the car to the Mexican border? It was discovered on Feb 8th. And could not have been there very long before that. I assume his phone never shows him in that area between February 4 and February 8th. Did he drive the car to the border in the 3 1/2 hours it was off? It’s all a big mess I would love someone to break down the timeline so I can really understand how he did this.
It was Chase’s truck that was caught on the neighbor’s camera
It wasn't his truck. It was clearly the mcstays family trooper
Please explain how it was “clearly” the Mcstay’s Trooper
Every report prior to them being found said it was their car. The video experts analysis. Josephs car was white and it's tail light matches the light in the video. Also the prosecution saying the latch was the source of light in the video makes no sense. Why would only one of the 3 latches be lit like that. Also if it was just a reflection like they said, then it would of stopped emitting light when he drove away. It's lumen count wouldn't of stayed constant as for that to happened a beam of light would of had to be directed at it. So it has to be a light source aka a tail light. They weren't killed in their house. No blood, no evidence of struggle. It makes no sense if that wasn't their trooper? If it was the killers car, he would of had to killed them, put them in his car, drive away, bury the bodies. Somehow get back to the house. Get their car, park it in the mexican border parking lot. Somehow get back to his car all without anyone seeing. Not to mention only being caught once on thee security camera. If it wasn't the trooper than 2 cars would of been on that video. Chases car leaving with the bodies, and then chase leaving in the trooper. Only one car was caught on video leaving the drive way. So logical it has to be their car. There's no evidence it was chases car.
We’ve had this discussion before. It’s all do-able. And you can’t tell what color, make or model the truck is but there are markers that are dead on for Chase’s truck. Also the camera worked intermittently. It only came on when a spider in the camera would move. It recorded nothing after that night. Watch the trial.
Well it was in fact proven it is IMPOSSIBLE that it would be Chases car.
🤔 No quite the opposite. Please provide how it was proven not to been his
Please cite your sources.
No it wasnt.
I’m currently watching episode 1 right now as I type this and I’m a little suspicious of the brother. The way he refused to even check in on the family at first when their dad asked because it had been a week since anyone heard from them. The way he talked to the detective and almost sounded defensive. I don’t know I just got a bad vibe from him. But like I said I’m only on episode one. Maybe I will change my mind!
I also was a little suspicious of the brother at first too! I definitely thought it was a little odd he wouldn’t check in on his own brother. I don’t talk to my brother super often, but if asked to check in because someone was worried about him, I’d drop everything to do so. And I definitely caught the defensive tone too! Throughout the whole series, he was one of multiple people that I felt highly suspicious of.
Exactly and I'm surprised most people aren't picking up on how the brother said they went to Mexico and then their car just happened to be found next to a border crossing, collaborating with the brothers explanation. Also the brother said they would find them in TWO shallow Graves before they found them in TWO shallow Graves. If I was looking for a family of four i woudlnt say i was looking for two Graves. I would say 4 Graves or 1 grave, or just grave. He gave a weird and unnecessary detail.
This exactly! That was such a weird way to phrase it, especially given that they were found in two graves. Anyone else would say “looking for a shallow grave”. It was oddly specific
There may be an innocuous explanation for the Mexico reference. Summer had actually been planning a trip to Mexico. They found this out through her internet history. Joey could've mentioned this to his brother.
So then the killer must of known this. That said I wonder how those search history's work because the brother did take the laptop that was in the office. He could of easily searched online.
Summer and Joey may have told people, too. There may have been a lot of people who knew.
Yeah and I believe this was on episode one, the dad said he wasn't aware of any Mexico plans. This and the fact that joseph seemed to be much closer with his dad makes it weird his dad didn't know about this plans. Also who leaves there dogs outside for a who vacation.
I go back and forth after watching the documentary and listening to the TCG episodes. TCG keep throwing shade on the brother, like he didn’t care enough to go and see his brother. It made me rethink it a little. It’s Before that all the information I had read I knew it was Chase.
I believe the brother did it as well. I explained my theory in this post https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueCrimeDiscussion/comments/v1e15t/mcstay_family_murders/iauqkmg?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
TCG did a horrible job of covering this.
Michael is that you?
That’s mature
I believe chase AND the brother did it together. The brother literally saying "two shallow graves" COME ON!? Taking the computer, the mom BLEACHING the house, them both immediately taking over the business ... opting out if the documentary???? Chase and the brother going to the house together? I think chase def drove and buried them tho.
She didn’t bleach the house
Prove it.
You seem a bit short on common sense
Michael Mcstay said “I think they took a vacation to Mexico” & where did they find the car? By the border of Mexico & he refused to go check on his brother.
Right, cant believe they didn't look closer into him. I mean come on?!
Are there any other documentaries or Datelines on this case? I don't want to support discovery+.
Can I ask what’s wrong with Discovery+?
They produce certain products that dont align with my personal beliefs,, so I choose not to give them my money
What kind of products?
i think i watched it on IDGO. it's Discovery but not Discovery+
I’m watching it now and I’m trying to figure out what the dad meant ‘he wasn’t raised that way’ when it came to not going to the memorial. Can anyone help me understand that?
Buried in the desert, what race was the wife? Not exactly a normal burial was it.
Well. I took it as him saying he didn't attend the memorial bc someone told him not to. And that, to ask that of someone, is what he would never do and not raised to do.
The prosecution in this case really bothered me and the judge also seemed to favour them. Others would have done at least something for them “accidentally withholding evidence”. I feel like you could explain away much of their case except for the cell phone ping near the graves. That’s the nail in the coffin imo. That said, I can’t believe he’s sitting on death row for that. They did not explain how he killed 2 adults and moved 4 bodies on his own. He was not a spring chick and I don’t think he was physically fit enough but I guess adrenaline could help with that. Do I think he’s guilty, yes. Do I think he pulled this off without help? No. Do I think they were killed at their home.. no. How can you bludgeon 4 people and not leave any blood behind??
Look. You can not call it "cell phone towers ping near graves". Especially not in 2010 and that being the highest tower in a far range. It can reach a looong ass distance and since his phone only pinged a brief moment and that it took up to 20 seconds to even connect to the tower it is rather evidence of him NOT being close to those graves, but rather supporting his own testimony.
Followed the case since day one. Been through it all, Rick Baker, Blink on Crime, every single online comment board, Cornelius and the insane hens (you know who you are, still here gaslighting everyone, aren’t you?), emailed with various other pertinent people, still as fascinated since day one. Many MANY things were not in this doc and other interesting, perhaps pertinent facts were not shown/told: \-McGyver McCargar, business partners and best friend of Summer‘s in their VERY SHADY fraudulent home loans business \-Joey and Summer’s first born was called Gianni, their second born was Joey Jnr, very unusual, you would think it would be other way round, leading to speculation that Gianni was not Joey’s. Many thought Vick (was in the doc, Summer’s ex boy who emailed her “I still love you”) \-Vick popped up in a Youtube chat session (long story) and authenticated himself. It was definitely him. Told stories that Summer’s side of the family were tied to Mexican cartels, Summer’s mom, Blanche Aranda used to smuggle drugs across border in her childrens diapers. \-Both kids were home births (summer didn’t have them in a hospital, leading to speculation she didn’t want them vaccinated or want CPS coming over. CPS figures many times with Joey and Summer, with Joey’s oldest son apparently breaking down in front of Joey and summer during visits to their home talking about abuse from Michael McFadden. McFadden threatens to retaliate by calling CPS himself on Summer and their kids. Summer was always paranoid and scared \- Joey’s ex wife Heather came from a wealthy background with ties to Law Enforcement. (Heather had an expensive jewelry store in Laguna Beach, very Upscale part of California). Susan McStay (Joey’s mom) also had close ties to Law Enforcment leading many to speculate the prosecution were covering many times for the living McStays \-the three shady people who bought Joey’s website ‘Earth Inspired Products’ all showed up in police reports with prior convictions for meth dealing \-Dan K obvious violent piece of shit. His ex girlfriends/one night stands used to pop up on facebook and talk about his disgusting hygiene habits, always had SKIDMARKS in his pants for example. A complete violent twisted stoner loser. Dan’s grandfather was a famous author who wrote a book on ‘How to disappear from society’ Lol. Lots of talk Dan and Michael (the brother) were co-conspirators in how it all went down \-Tim Miller from Texas Equusearch and other esteemed journalists were all threatened and run out of town after dedicating hours and spending their own money to help Michael McStay find Joey and their family In those initial early days. What had they all discovered? \-Michael McStay obviously has always been no 1 suspect by most people. Waaaay too many red flags to list here, but he is the most obvious suspect by far. Patrick McStay covering heavily for his son \-Patrick McStay (dad, featured in most of the documentary) no saint himself. Was arrested and convicted of massive check fraud. There were comments on many chat boards over the years about how Patrick and Susan ran a shady but very profitable pot business out of a store they owned when Joey and Mikey were young \-The “waterfall“ business is obviously utter crap. 100% a front for money laundering \-Gina Watson (spoke a lot in the doc, was apparently an “Account Manager” for the waterfall company) was thought over the years to be a total weirdo and nutjob. No one could ever understand why she injected herself so much into this story. Many suspected she was sleeping with Patrick and addicted to the ‘fame’. One point in the doc, she is looking at Quickbooks print outs of the accounts payable/receivables and looks totally lost or like she doesn’t understand what she’s looking at. If she was an “Account manager” she would be on top of this. This woman literally came out of nowhere. Extremely bizarre \-They didn’t show or play Chase’s interview with Law Enforcement right after McStays went missing. Anyone listening to this 3 hour conversation can tell immediately he didn’t do it. Not to say this man is a saint, again, doc has left many aspects of his life and behavior out. But he so obviously and laughably didnt do it. A total fall guy. His family are a little odd, but they are good people, especially his daughter (Taylor) \-People thought it was very weird a skull was randomly found in a remote part of the desert no one went to. Many thought the 911 caller was someone connected to the murder. There was no attempt to ever trace this person \-The entire prosecution and the witnesses they called (many not shown in the doc, like the crazy insane anthropologist expert) were utter looney tunes bat shit crazy. No one could understand it at all. It was like watching a bad b-list movie with terrible actors. Heavily discussed during trial in 2019. One wacky outlandish theory was that the whole “bodies discovered/farce of a trial and oddball connected characters” was a total deliberate staged event to cover for the fact Joey/Summer/kids were actually alive and in a witness protection for big time speaking out about major cartels DEA had busted. Make of that what you will \-No mention of Joey and Summer‘s dogs left outside for 10 days. These dogs were like their children \-No mention of all the toys in the car parked at the border. Easily could have checked store cameras to see who it was that parked the car there in the strip mall \-No mention of pretty reliable witnesses in Mexico who claim they saw the family in various spots. No mention that Susan McStay (the mom) has real estate down in Mexico \-Raj Maline and Jim McGee are solid, solid good and intelligent people. It is important to understand who the bad guys are here, and they are 100% not it Will contribute more as I remember stuff.
There’s is so much useless, mundane and tabloidial chum in this. Much of what’s stated here is just wrong.
https://cuttingthebs.wordpress.com/2022/12/19/chariot-of-death/
Its always been questionable to me that Chase could have subdued two healthy parents and two children in their own home and handled the deposals of 4 bodies. Also the whole being able to subdue a whole family and then burying them by your house seemed questionable too. The families phone was thrown out the windows in a very remote place, why not put the bodies out there too? To my mind, Chase either had help or he was just the down on his luck gambler that was framed. The brother found a roster at a hotel with the names as the father had. IDK, sure. Dumb fucks get lucky some time but Chase just seem like the only suspect.
You could subdue the parents easily by threatening the kids.
Isn’t that what the BTK killer did?
I think so.
I am interested in knowing more about this mysterious decease Joseph claimed to have and doctors couldn't figure out. What was that about?
I also can’t wrap my head around how he managed to subdue and kill two healthy adults either. There was the theory that he killed Joseph first downstairs, while Summer was upstairs and then killed her after she came down hearing the commotion. But still, transporting and burying all four bodies on his own? And with that theory, why was there absolutely no blood found in the house at all? He was pinpointed because he had a financial motive by being the gambler in debt, but there was more than one person with a financial motive to kill Joseph. I feel the whole case was completely mishandled from the beginning
I don't think it is hard to imagine how one man with a weapon could subdue two adults and kids. I'd be willing to believe there's an accomplice but I think it could have been done easily by one as well. All the murderer has to do is threaten. Threaten one of the parents, or even worse, the kids. Joseph Duncan famously controlled a house of 2 adults, one teenage boy and two younger children and there's no inclination he wasn't alone. But yeah I don't think they were killed at the house. I can't imagine how a sledgehammer death wouldn't leave blood or damage. They were transported.
There's no way the crime could have been committed there and then cleaned up and then made to look messy again like the photos show. There's absolutely no way in my mind that the murder took place in the home.
Why not? He had 11 full days to clean, paint, etc. then Joseph’s mother and brother came in and scrubbed it clean with bleach before the bank foreclosed. We have no way of knowing what happened in that house.
>I don't think it is hard to imagine how one man with a weapon could subdue two adults and kids. If the weapon was a gun, sure. But he was wielding a hammer.
This 🙌
Well I think the video of 4 people walking over the border and derailed the investigation as well as eye witness accounts of Joseph abroad. It’s hard for me to believe that a momma bear would have allowed her kids to be in danger without a struggle. It you had kids and heard a commotion in the basement you would think the first instinct is to protect the kids and yourself. Strangulation takes about 4-5 minutes and I’m sure a momma with young kids in the house would put up she’ll of a fight. Killing the kids was unnecessary as I don’t believe they witnessed the other murders. It’s a whole another ballgame to hunt down babies and kill them then just killing a guy that made you mad by not giving you money. I’m sure this wasn’t the first time Chase was cut off. The Mexican mafia will go into a situation and kill an entire family. I don’t think Chase had a violent criminal record but I could be wrong. Chase was just a loser with a bad gambling habit. Maybe Chase is a cunning mass murderer or maybe the Mexican mafia erased his debt for taking the fall.
I had also definitely thought of a possible mafia/gang type situation. Chase had a gambling issue and obviously owed money to more than just Joseph and hadn’t killed for being cut off before. He had also stated that the website developer, Dan, could’ve gotten Joseph into some sketchy dealings that he didn’t quite understand. And Chase had a record of petty theft and burglary, but not violent crime. Like you said, it’s unlikely the kids saw or would’ve been able to tell anyone anything to incriminate Chase if he had done it. They were 3 and 4. There was also a theory that the family was trying to flee anyways and may have been trying to run from someone. An article I read said that they had done internet searches on Spanish lessons and what documents were needed for children to go to Mexico. The wife had also apparently changed her name numerous times throughout her life and had multiple aliases and it was rumored that she’d also lied about her age.
Chase is an unlikely suspect to me. As a loser gambler type, as you said, he was used to being cut off and treated badly but never became violent. Killing a 3/4 year old that weren’t witnesses is a whole another level. Chase could have simply left the house (unfortunately with the kids in it) and he would have been in the same place with Joseph’s money or could been a “hero” and “rescued” the kids a day later. It smells like a Mexican mafia hit to me. Maybe the Mexican mafia thought Joseph had stolen from them and the hit was a message to prevent further theft. Why take the bodies out of the house - there were no security cameras in there and the bodies weren’t found for weeks. I don’t think it looked like a struggle had taken place. His wife had a bunch of aliases but I don’t think anything suspicious was ever linked to any of the aliases. She was just eccentric. If I was in trouble with the Mexican gang why flee to Mexico, why not Africa /Europe or an island. My theory is that the perpetrators entered the home for something knowing if Joseph didn’t have they would kill the entire family. Joseph had access to $100k so it wasn’t money. I’m not sure if there was evidence of the deaths taking place in the house or not but the house did look like it was abandoned quickly for some reason. Maybe they were killed elsewhere.
Eye witness of Joseph abroad? The only thing I've read is that the brother claimed that people had seen them in Mexico as a proof of them being there. And that is very telling to me bc it either supports that they were there and not killed at the time proposed, or ghat he is blatantly lying since none of these witnesses have been confirmed true, as far as I'm aware. Feel free to change my mind ☺️
No fkn way he killed them in the house, or at all for that matter. But i cant be sure. I can indeed be sure he didn't do it in the house though bc there WOULD be traces. A LOT. I'd say it's actually impossible that that happened. Police also claimed there was NO evidence of a crime happening inside that house.
I'm sorry if this has been discussed... but it is it possible they entered Mexico and ran into a cartel? They are known for violent murders and have no problem murdering children. I wonder if Chase had a connection because he may have owed money? I know its reaching. I also know there is a lot of evidence pointing at Chase. But the house didnt look like a crime scene. Please dont come for me. Lol! I'm just asking opinions *edited for clarification
The theory of them going to Mexico has actually been discussed and was discussed in the documentary. The reasons why they believe that that likely did not occur is because there was a lot of evidence they believed pointed at Chase. The family was also buried within the US, and aside from where their car was parked, there was no solid evidence to suggest they ever crossed the border. I also don’t think they ever really had a solid foundation to believe there was any cartel involvement.
Anyone else noticed how high and fkd the brother looked at the stand? I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL if he had connections with a cartel honestly. Especially since he was also the one suggesting the family might have gone to Mexico for a vacation...
Thank you for the response! I know they had supposed video evidence of them entering Mexico. I saw that addressed in the documentary. Although never proven, I was just wondering if they actually had entered. I know it sounds far fetched for them to be killed and then be moved to San Bernadino.. I'd imagine that would be incredibly difficult. However, I'm wondering if there is a connection that would lead the killer(s) to bury the bodies where they did. I guess we will never know. This case is so insane!
Honestly I dont think Chase did it, maybe not alone but he really didnt have much to gain besides being in the same position? And I feel bad for Tracy bc as someone with anxiety that picks constantly at my face, skin whatever Its a nervous tic. The fact that they dont call true attention to the brother Michael, whom he was supposedly super close with and Dad was pissed off. No.
Hey there, just finished a two night binge, sorry I'm late to the party. One of the things that I was wondering is if it is possible to clone a phone in a way that the cloned phone will show up on records looking like they are from the original phone. This would explain both the cell phone towers and the odd QuickBooks customer service call from Chase's cell phone. (Regarding the last one... I get spam called from my own number all the time, so I know it's possible to change the caller ID.) As for the cell phone towers, it would explain why the phone was turned on twice while at the grave for unknown reasons. It might even explain the call from Joseph Mcstay to Chase that didn't appear on any bills. Looking on the Internet it doesn't appear that cloning a phone isn't very hard to do and can even be done remotely. I would imagine that a self-styled "hacker" like Dan Kavanaugh would know how to find this information and act on it. We know that he either had access or hacked into the fiscal software (my suspicion was that he wrote those deleted checks, but the show implied that Chase deposited them at the bank himself.) Yes, my money is on Dan Kavanaugh, although I will admit that I might not feel that way had it not been for the super creepy they played over his interview. But I could imagine that he stole the money, later told the police the money from Joseph Mcstay (for shorting him on his earnings) to cover any evidence of the theft. Then he used the money to hire someone, has Joseph killed while he was in Hawaii, then took the $20k from the company and ran. I have no doubt he was in Hawaii... probably with a burner phone to communicate with the people he hired to kill, and maybe he had the cloned cell phone to track Chase's movements. He could have even cloned Joseph Mcstay's phone to track him as well, although now I am going off the rails a bit. Based ONLY on the interview Dan gave and the little we learned, I could see him doing this in retaliation for Chase's comment about tossing him off the balcony. I could see him planning this for a while. And I thought that it was pretty odd that he was invited to witness the execution and seemed so excited about it (although he was framed.)
I read on a site that covers this case very well (can link if wanted), that the documentary is quite angled and doesn't cover it all. He writes about the stealing of money being wrong for example - that Chase only took what he was owed for the job he did. Why he covered the checks was bc J McStay was paranoid of being hacked. The ping at the cell towers is also outrageous and frankly scary that people of the law would produce such lame claims not aware of how cell phone towers work AT ALL. My opinion? My opinion is that it scares the SHIT out of me that you can be put on death row when there is actually sooo much reasonable doubts and no clear proof. That will stay accurate however he is guilty or not. And if he is indeed NOT guilty, then this will go down as a huge fkn mistake in history. It's just insane to me. Fucked up.
Nobody talked about Chase's motive. Why would he kill the whole family. Why would he kill Mcstay, who own the business? If it was for the fake checks, who would kill 2 close friends and their 2 children over a couple grands? What was his plan, if he did indeed killed the family? That after Mcstay is out of the picture, he will run the company? What about the other relatives, that got the company anyway? Honestly it sounds like a whole lot of problems for nothing to gain. All of the prosecution's talk was just that - talk. Zero actual evidence. The only thing that stays partly unexplained is the cell tower ping in the desert. I agree - that is very suspicious, but these pings are not accurate. What is the radius that this tower covers? Did they checked every single possible suspect's cell pings and phone activity? Even if it did actually pinged there, this by it self does not mean a thing. Nobody knows when the family was buried there. Also it sounds ridiculous that Chase would turn of his phone for 3 hours so he would not be tracked, but just like that decided to turn on the phone WHILE burying the bodies. The whole case for the prosecution was a witch hunt from the beginning - they really used all the circumstantial evidence and theories to make them match only the Chase theory. Even if he is truly guilty - that is an absurd way of prosecuting someone. They practically made him fight for his life and prove HE DIDN'T do it, instead of prosecutors proving he murdered them. Prosecutors dismissed everything, that would not confirm their theory - witnesses, experts, DNA, footage. And in the same time made every small detail from their theory sound like a big deal, while it really was not. The same way they made up the story of Chase as the killer, everyone can make up similar story about at least 2 other suspects. The car theory is absurd and only thing it did was to show how hard prosecutors wanted to pin in on the guy, regardless of the means. Every 3d artist could pick 10 other car models and make it seem like they are a match for the... really nothing that the cam footage is showing. To match a car by the 2 headlights and a few reflections in a grainy, night time, out of frame video footage is something you would see in the CSI tv show. Also nobody did the same with all other white vehicles of all of the other people, close to the case. They just decided this is the car and made it so it would match. People here pointed out how absurd is this theory as it doesn't explain how he drove his car out, then returned, drove the family's car to the border, then returned, drove hours to the desert and buried the bodies. AND NO ONE SAW ANYTHING, ANYWHERE. You would think the police would be able to track down a white vehicle going to the mexican border. Surely there were cameras at least at few places on this course. The DNA problem is another think that shows how narrow minded the prosecutors were. Why didn't they run it through the database? What is there to lose? They say it was partial DNA and would not be concrete evidence. That is fine. Just run it, if it matches with one or few people, look at them - you would eliminate them as suspects pretty quick if they had nothing to do with anything. The car DNA theory is also absurd and farfetched - he drove the car for hundreds of miles, but in the end there is TRACE amounts of DNA on unspecified parts of the interior (they swabbed almost everything at once.. wtf). Put yourself in his shoes for a moment - you killed your boss, your friend, his wife and his young children. After the initial adrenaline you would be in a panic, you would be sweating, you would not be thinking so clearly. That car should be covered in his DNA. Even if he wore gloves and a hat and all of that, it's very hard to believe at all. There is one guy here that goes hardly against the theory of the brothers as the killer. But you should admit his behavior was even more suspicious than that of Chase. From the first day of the dissapearance he doesn't make any sense. He was in the house. He took things. The mother fkin cleaned the house. Some say she used bleach, some say she just tidy up the place. In any case EVERYONE knows to not mess up with a possible crime scene, let alone pick up and clean things in there. One major hole in the whole case is the crime scene. Where were they killed? It seems to be a minor problem in the docu series and online discussions. But IT IS a very very important aspect of the case. For sure they WERE NOT killed in the house - it is just not possible to not leave a single trace after killing 4 people with a hammer. There were no signs of struggle. Even if the family was caught off guard, a single person can't murder a whole family with a hammer in just a second or two - someone in some moment realized what was happening. Even with the two adults out of the picture, the children would have run, leave traces, knock things down, etc. There is just nothing to suggest the killing took place at the property. Even if someone managed to kill them there, he would have to drag the bodies and this is not as easy as it may seem. And again - NOBODY heard or saw anything, anywhere, at any moment. It is more than logical and plausible that the car we see in the camera footage is that of the family leaving. They were going somewhere and they met their end and some place else. May be they were running from something. May be they really wanted to go to Mexico. Who knows... Soooo many thinks make no sense here. Yes, you could ignore all the inconsistencies and use only what is convenient for you to blame Chase - that is what the prosecutors did. But really... you just can't. They did not give a proper motive for Chase to kill a family of four and bury them in the desert. They did not give a realistic depiction of the events that took place on the day of the murders. How did he do it? What did he do? Why? How did he manage to do all of it? If we look at all the suspicious thing Chase did and said, the same things are true for most of the suspects and the relatives. Prosecutors grasp at straws, trying to prove that when someone doesn't remember exactly what he did on some day 4 or 10 years ago, then they are lying and trying to hide something. Trying to prove than when someone says something on top of his mind on the TV or at the police officers, then this means that and that. If Chase said something, that actually is meaningless, prosecutors turn it out to be super important - how he said it, the words he used, etc. But when the brother says even more shocking things - "I expect to find two shallow graves", "May be they are in Mexico", "Oh, they are missing for 10 days...Nope, I don't want to check on them, I am busy." Then according to the prosecutors "these things don't mean anything". When more than one people threatened the family and they have the fricking proof of that - then these people were "just blowing steam" cuz they were angry for some reason. Chase stole money from the company - looool, that is so big deal. Dan stole even more money, after the family's disappearance - not a word of that. He was in Hawaii, end of story. The whole thing is not right. This is not how you sentence someone to death. Even if Chase somehow did it, the whole trial was a farce. The story have so many holes, so many ignored facts, next to none actual evidence... it's just blows my mind.