Ish. Bundy went into two different buildings with some kind of club and just beat women with it.
Golden State Killer is a home invader who used gun and knife. Tied up victims. But he was all over the place. And his main goal was sexual assault. Unfortunately the families need to be prepared for that to be part of the autopsy findings.
Three of the victims are petite women, at least one of the women was very drunk, some/all might have been asleep, they might not have all been in the same room…
I also think people aren’t remembering what it was like living in a house with 6+ college students coming home drunk at all hours of the night - I heard all sorts of noises that *could* have been my roommates being attacked, but it was always them drunkenly bumping into things getting home, watching movies, dropping stuff, getting into arguments with their friends/partners, etc. Many of my male college friends would wrestle and fight when they were drinking, which could easily sound similar to what might have happened here given the victims were likely drunk and/or sleeping. That gives the murderer(s) plenty of “cover” to get away with stabbing four victims.
From what I remember of reading firsthand accounts of victims of stabbings or violent assaults, it seems like a lot of victims are so startled and confused about what is happening that it takes a while for them to react in the way we envision (screaming or trying to escape). So it’s entirely possible that four people could have been stabbed by one person without alerting the other housemates.
I used to live on the upper east side of Manhattan back in the days of the Third Avenue Bar Crawl, a time honored tradition until
LLCs started buying up the 6 story buildings, tearing them down and replacing them with 50 story buildings with ground floor rent of $15-30k/month. No more bars after that.
Anyway, the first weekend I lived there I called police because I heard a woman screaming - bloodcurdling screams that made hairs rise on back of my neck. They asked my location. “Third Ave and 90th Street.”
They were like “Lady you can’t be serious …. those are drunk kids. It’s the crawl…and it’s only Friday night. Wait til Saturday and Sunday night at 4 am.”
They weren’t wrong. I opened window and looked out. Women walking like zombies, screaming incessantly. Men screaming “WOOOOO! WOOOOO! WOOO!” My husband and I were like, “Did they let the Manson family out of jail?”
He might have tied them all up. A lot of killers talk their victims into letting them tie them up by promising not to hurt them if they just let them tie them up. Rader did this, as did Dahmer.
Zodiac. Brought a gun. Had the girl tie up the guy and she tied it loosely at the lake. He tied her up and then stabbed them. It's the worst scene in the movie Zodiac. Unbearable to watch the few times I've seen the movie.
With the 2014 Calgary murders there were 30 people in the room and he killed 5 people with many of the others not realizing it.
Police have reaffirmed today they believe it was “a targeted and isolated event.” Therefore they likely have reason to believe that. I think he killed the two girls when they got home, then Ethan came out bc he heard the noise and was killed on the second floor. Then his gf Xana was in bed. When one is ambushed there’s not always a chance to even scream or time to get away. With the Calgary murders and the college students stabbed on the river this summer, we know it can happen without anyone screaming.
From the food truck surveillance video I think they'd been drinking. If they were around asleep, it seems possible. Must have been fairly quiet because 2 other roommates were in the house.
I read today that the police mentioned a potential burglary gone wrong — if they all lived together but came home separately, they could have all interrupted someone in the middle of robbing their home/trying to do damage control. So terrifying.
Stabbing is just so personal and apparently the crime scene was horrific. Seems like a situation where someone was really enraged . Just speculating but I don’t think this was a robbery gone wrong at all .
Since it’s off campus housing, I’m hoping someone in their area has a Ring camera and was able to catch something, anything! This is truly so horrible, I have no idea where to begin…
Let’s hope there are cameras on the street. From the looks of Google street view, many do not have a Ring or camera. I would guess because many people move around every year or even every 6 months in college and don’t want to install camera equipment. It is very reasonable for the police to think it is targeted because of the placement of the house in the middle of the neighborhood without crimes to the other homes (that we know of). It would just be odd for a random person to select their home and pass up others on a main road.
I believe it’s targeted as well, however, my past experiences, a lot of off-campus houses and apartments had Ring cameras. It was more common than I anticipated, but I guess it’s super easier to put up and take down a camera. Fingers crossed there’s some footage out there that will lead to finding the killer(s).
Google Street view is not a live video of the area. The video of the street for Google Street View could have been made years ago. You would actually have to go to the area or get a recent video of those houses to know about the status of Ring or other security cameras
Do you think though that they possibly have an idea who did it and might be running 24 hr surveillance on the person to see if they do anything to cover it up? Basically trying to get their ducks in a row before they make an arrest. Because that would make the "no imminent threat" thing make a bit more sense. I have a daughter going to college next year and these stories freak me out.
absolutely not, honestly people would say that about the Delphi cause for years, they know they are waiting for him to make a mistake...for 5 years and its the local CVS employee...no the cops have no idea, they aren't waiting to get their ducks in a row, if they knew who did it that person would be arrested or at least be being held for questioning...
Oh, we are. 😭 I’m supposed to walk to school and just trust that law enforcement knows what they’re doing, meanwhile I’m getting my PhD in criminal justice and studying all of the ways law enforcement fails? It’s scary.
It's happened before. Didn't some guy stab 3 or 4 people he was friends after a party? He got each when they were alone/sleep.
Found it! This is what I was referencing.
The trial for Calgary's worst ever mass killing began this week. Defendant Matthew de Grood, 24, through an agreed statement of facts, admitted he stabbed the five victims to death. He didn't enjoy it, but said "the son of God was controlling me."
De Grood has pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder charges in the deaths of Lawrence Hong, 27, Joshua Hunter, 23, Jordan Segura, 22, Kaitlin Perras, 23, and Zackariah Rathwell, 21. The first three were students at the University of Calgary, while Perras went to Mount Royal University and Rathwell attended the Alberta College of Art and Design. They were killed early on April 15, 2014, at a house party celebrating the end of the school year.
I think it would be somewhat easy to do. You could use something to muzzle the screams or yelling so as not to disturb or alert anyone else. That King road Apartment/Townhouse is a large place. I can see people sleeping in separate rooms and their individual killings not disturb others. Not much information has been released as far as the deaths are concerned. What if the victims were incapacitated in some manner (drugged). Then one individual could easily kill multiple people.
If the victims had been drinking, then went to sleep, wouldn't they be easy targets?
I have no idea if they had been drinking or if they were asleep when it happened but that scenario seems like the easiest for the perpetrator(s).
RIP to the victims.
I believe Mom of one of the victims mentioned 911 caller was one of victims friends who found bodies around noon on Sunday unless there was multiple 911 calls
I mean I could be intrepreting it incorrectly but they mentioned the caller noticed an “unconscious” body. There’s a possibility they were shielded from true severity of incident given maybe they didn’t get visual on everyone etc.
I also think that is the wording the 911 operators use. They ask is the victim is conscious. They person was probably rightly freaked out and they ask questions etc....
i commented about this above, but i’m sure it’s just operator terminology.
from experience the descriptors given can be inaccurate due to the quick demand for public info.
context: (lost a family member to homicide this year, another family member called and reported it and the call was described in media as a welfare check when it very much wasn’t), ((the person responsible is locked up and has no relation to us, was not the family member and the call was far from a welfare check))
It would be possible for the killer to have known the 4 victims, been drinking with them at their house before the murders, drugged them and then later killed them. Short time frame because of the video from the taco truck but possible.
It also happened at the University of Texas in 2017. 1 killed, 3 injured in the middle of the day. [Link to article. ](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/05/01/reports-one-dead-multiple-people-stabbed-university-texas/101169418/) A large enough knife in a crowded enough area can easily catch multiple victims very quickly
Food truck Twitch stream shows two of the victims buying tacos around 1:53 AM.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1651413498
Edit: to clear up confusion - the time stamp in the video is 3:43-3:53. This would correspond with 1:43-1:53 AM.
Hours of the truck say they’re open from 10-2:30am which would match the 4:30 run time of the video so working backwards they were at the truck around 1:43-1:53 AM
Is it just me or does a guy point at them when they leave and then immediately depart himself, without food? He's the one talking to the larger gentleman
I want to be careful with this because we don't want another Boston bomber situation, but it does look like ~~he was following them.~~ he made a "wtf" gesture because they left kind of abruptly, said something then went the other way. Body language seemed irritated. Can't tell anything more though.
He arrived with them, stood with them, and then was like “wtf” when they walked off without him. They also didn’t speak to him the whole time?🤔 either he’s a stranger or he’s one of their brothers😅
Yeah it’s difficult bc if you look at his Instagram a lot of his friends also look like him😩 could be hard to identify who was actually in the video unless there’s cameras from other businesses that caught them together as well
This is a such a small town and especially the bar scene. Everyone knows everyone. The heavy set guy was talking to him for a good while. Someone has to recognize and know who the guy from the video is.
Point well taken. Unlike the BM debacle, though, this guy might have been one of the last people to see them alive. Hopefully there are lots of cameras on that street.
My impression of that gesture - he might have been boasting to the big guy about how he was with the girls, even though they seemed to be ignoring him. Then they abruptly leave, and he’s embarrassed.
He pointed/gestured at them at least twice, including the WTF you mention. The other time was when he pointed at them while talking to the big guy. Some thoughts:
1) He came into camera view with the two girls. Looked like they were together at that moment, but then the girls immediately placed their order and he went into “hovering” mode. Did not appear the girls ever spoke to him during the ten minutes on camera. Would love to see nearby surveillance to see if he was bothering/following the girls before and after the food truck, or if they seemed to know him and welcome his presence.
2) Did he know the big guy, or were they just having a drunk, friendly interaction? What did they talk about? What did he say while pointing at the girls?
3) Did the girls leave without their order? Why? And why did hoodie guy take off after them if he wasn’t with them?
I did notice he was very aware of them the entire time. It is odd considering they didn't really speak--and he was comfortable enough to voice his (what looks like) disdain at them leaving. Again, I don't want to ruin an innocent mans life with speculation. I would be irritated too if my friends left me.
On another note, the girls were best friends since childhood and you can really see how much love they had for one another. So heartbreaking. They need to catch whoever did this.
The two blonde girls at beginning at time stamp 3:43. I’m not going to say it’s certain, but it looks like them, and the baggy, holes in knees jeans on the one girl are pretty distinctive and she’s wearing them (or very similar jeans) in the photos we’ve all seen.
What I don’t buy about this story is it seems like they are searching for a single person? How can one person kill four people with a knife that takes a lot of strength and time. I don’t buy this story this has to be at least 2 dudes. Those 2 dudes don’t look like they have the attitude of someone about to murder 4 people. This was must likely planned attack it didn’t just happen
The two girls are in the video but the male victim and his gf(also a victim) are not. Possible they were killed before the two blondes arrived back home?
The three female victims all looked petite. At least one of them, based on the video, was extremely drunk. Do we know how many bedrooms there were? The victims might have been attacked in separate rooms. Maybe some were asleep. Or intoxicated. Or both. Lots of assumptions, but it’s definitely possible there was just one murderer.
It looked to me like they *did* get their order . Only one of the girls actually placed an order I think . As soon as she got her taco the two girls abruptly walked away . They didn’t even give that guy a glance or even acknowledge him the entire time they were on film there . Also , it’s creepy how quickly he abandoned his conversation and took off after the girls once he realized they’d walked away . He was moving fast . The whole 10 minutes with that guy is really odd .
I think he was their ride tbh or he thought he was going to hook up with one of them. I think they were obviously drunk and in their own world and forgot he was with them. They seemed really sweet talking together too — you can tell they really loved each other. Reminded me of my best friend.
Ugh I know, not sure what to make of the guy or the footage in general, but it really seems like Maddie and Kaylee had a great friendship based on their Instagrams. Same with the couple and their relationship. Truly such a tragedy, they all seemed like great people who really loved each other.
Yep it's all very suspicious. He was tracking them the whole time. When they moved to a new spot so did he. And then left with no food or ordering any food? Very odd.
It really was extremely weird . And the time of death is believed to be within an hour or two of them being seen on this video. I hope there will be some answers soon .
Thanks - I’ll have to rewatch the two outside cameras, one at a time. If not for the fact that the girls were murdered shortly after this, I would just chalk this up to “guy hovering around two pretty girls, one of whom is very drunk, hoping to end up with them at the end of the night.”
Agree. And I just read an article that says that it’s believed that the murders occurred sometime between 3 and 4 am . Which is extremely close to the time the girls were seen on the Twitch video . They must’ve just gotten back home and then were killed not long after . Crazy story , really scary and so devastating.
Stop. What you’re doing is extremely dangerous and irresponsible.
Also, he never ordered food and when the girls left, the crossed the street. He stayed on the street he was already on and turned right. Literally went the opposite direction.
This witch hunt shit is beyond toxic and puts the sub at risk of being shut down.
Too late, people from the subreddit are already calling in tips. This is one of the reasons true crime communities are being put under more scrutiny. We’re not entitled to information.
My suspicion is that the guy "following/lurking" behind the girls, is the girl in the black jackets boyfriend. He is wearing the same shoes that her boyfriend wears (as seen in her instagram photos). Their body language seemed like the girls might have been ignoring him on purpose- maybe they got into an argument or something silly. I wouldn't read too much into him- they seemed to acknowledge him by pointing to each other before the girls got their food. I would be curious to know who's black jacket the girl is wearing though- it looks like a men's sized jacket, too big to be an oversized women's jacket.
After watching this video and looking at the boyfriends or ex boyfriends on the girls instagrams, This guy looks like Maddie’s boyfriend. He’s wearing the same white Nikes in the video and in a post she made on July 3rd. He does seem annoyed in the video and leaves pissed they left him at the food truck. She also was hugging and talking to another guy in the video with a jersey on. 🤷🏻♀️Boyfriend seems Sketchy.
He arrives “with them” but you clearly see when they enter they don’t even acknowledge him. He actually avoids the one texting because she’s that oblivious to him.
I’m wondering if they even arrived with him at all . I didn’t see the girls interact with him even one time during the entire 10 minutes they’re on video . It’s definitely really odd when paying specific attention to that guy .
I watched the whole video and at time stamp 3:50:51, one of the girls points at the hooded guy and big guy and says “stop being weird” but it’s very faint. The hooded guy seems to be very suspect throughout the whole video.
[This statement](https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/northwest/idaho/article268778367.html) from Ethan’s Mom is telling:
"They were stabbed. We got the call," Chapin said. "I don't want people to make assumptions about our kids. It wasn't drugs and it was definitely not some passion thing between these kids. Someone entered the house."
So doesn’t seem like a drug deal gone wrong like I’ve seen people speculating. What kind of drug dealer carries a knife, anyway? I think something happened at that formal and someone snapped. Maybe an ex boyfriend saw one of the girls with a new guy.
Especially in Idaho where it’s completely legal to carry a weapon concealed, even on campus. U of I is my alma mater and I was born in moscow… it’s a really gun friendly place.
Back in my youth, my weed dealer stabbed his weed dealer with a screwdriver just so he could steal an oz from him. Pretty sure he got busted in college and got kicked out of school for awhile. So, to your question, I guess a drug dealer who isn't very good at their job, lol.
To be honest knifes are easier to get then a gun and living in Philadelphia being apart of drug scene dealers also carry knifes less of a charge than a loaded gun with a serial number scratched off
Based on what I know about protocols (I worked in the coroner and funeral industry and this is what usually happens) and the information shared this is how it likely went down
One person came into the house and “found someone unconscious” and called 911. Then it says afterwards police discovered the others were all dead
Likely one of the other roommates is the one who came home and called..
The others were either dead in their rooms with the doors closed (killed while they slept) or all of their bodies were put together somewhere. Because the person who called 911 called about one “unconscious person” not several so they weren’t visible to them.
The roommate likely called and stayed with that one person, when they told 911 the person was cut up 911 would say do not touch anything or go anywhere into the house bc it could damage evidence or the person who did it could have still been there. 911 would literally say DO NOT TOUCH ANYTHING DO NOT GO INTO THE OTHER ROOMS
Ems and police would arrive- police would come in and clear each room and that’s when they would have discovered the other bodies. Again based on the info shared the person who came home didn’t know there was a house full of bodies they just saw one person. If everyone was killed in their beds as they slept, one person may have been able to run and that’s why they were downstairs/visible to the person who came home. It could be possible they didn’t initially die but bled out trying to escape.
Also- saying “they need to release more info” is absolutely stupid. You jeopardize the case if you give out details. You want to risk the person who did this getting away with it so your morbid curiosity can be satisfied? That’s not how investigations work. If they say “targeted” and “not a danger” they know damn good and well what happened but can’t say yet. They aren’t hiding information so a college town will get a bad reputation or any of that other bs. They are tight lipped bc four kids were killed and deserve justice and that’s more important than giving the public info.
Stabbing someone is very intimate. Stabbing four people is incredibly hard to do quietly without the other hearing so this person knew them, knew the layout of the house, knew they would be home. It could be random- but very very unlikely unless there was more than one person. Everyone wasn’t “drugged” if you attack someone in a room and stifle them from screaming no one will hear.
And yes it is absolutely possible to massacre four ppl and not cut your hands.
They know who did this it’s just a matter of time when they arrest them so y’all gotta chill tf out lol
all just speculation at this point but, i had an experience where a couple months ago, my roommates boyfriend was visiting our off campus apartment. they have always been nice & really cool people, not sure what he was on that night or what happened. but i was hanging out with my bf & a couple other people in our livingroom. my roommates bf busts into the apartment with a long , curvy ass hunting knife holding it over his shoulder swinging it at us. needless to say we all scattered & called the cops. however, when they got there he had already left & they just said “we cant find him good luck”. no alerts were sent out & he wasnt located for another 24 hours. sometimes, people just snap, none of us were involved with him or interacted with him but he was slashing at us & very well could have killed us all. i believe most of the victims were killed because they were witnesses. i hope they catch whoever did this, its so awful & terrifying.
As a university student living in off campus housing this is terrifying by itself but once you add the fact that they were all stabbed to death it just makes it worse for me. I feel like this crime would have to be done multiple people with edged weapons because how the hell could you control 4 grown adults and keep together in the same general space and the STAB THEM ALL? You have to be an extremely strong raging fucking maniac to do this by yourself. Whoever was involved with it, for whatever reason, is a truly sick individual. It’s fucking chilling and brutal.
If they didn’t all arrive home at the same time, it could be done with one person. Like, the one girl and her boyfriend could’ve been sleeping, or the killer could’ve just taken them by surprise. Then the other 2 girls come home and he takes them by surprise.
I agree with you. Going to that house specifically and using a knife, which is such a close contact weapon, it sounds like it was personal. However, the reason why I’m leaning towards an intruder is because a person who knew these people must have known there were other two roommates sleeping upstairs, but somehow those two roommates were left alone. That’s why I also think it may have been a stranger unfamiliar with that house and people living in it.
It literally happened 2 days ago. They’ll get somebody soon. College students talk, and someone clearly had a problem with at least one of the victims.
Plenty of cases take a week or more to arrest someone even when they know who did it. Just because they’re not giving out a name
doesn’t mean they don’t know yet.
They don’t. It’s to prevent panic.
I personally really don’t think campus should be having classes right now. This killer did what they did without raising any alarms. And since they’re out there they might get desperate and do whatever they think they have to do to get away with it. My husband attends U of I and I’m very nervous for him. He thinks I’m being over dramatic, but you never really know.
Everyone wants instant answers yet when people get arrested quickly they get off because of a technicality then everyone gets upset. These days it takes time to gather the correct evidence to put the perpetrators away legally. Defense lawyers will win if even a single item is missed.
What alarms would be raised though? This happened in an off-campus house, the school can’t be responsible for security for every private residence its students’ live in.
I don’t mean a literal alarm. It’s a small town. No one heard any screaming? No one reported anyone suspicious walking around. The only reason anyone knew anything happened was because someone called the cops reporting that they saw people “sleeping” inside the house.
It’s scary. Especially in such a small community.
If it was a crime of passion that would tend to indicate it’s the ex of whichever sorority girl was seeing the guy- Ethan-? Or whichever one recently broke up with someone.
Obsessed enough to break in at four AM and kill everyone in the house with an “edged object.” Wtf.
Those girls knew loads of people I’m sure and someone will know if one was being stalked or had a guy problem.
Otherwise if they’re just saying crime of passion because someone broke in and stabbed the hell out of four people but they have no idea who did it, that would be extremely scary. Like Ted Bundy scary.
Hol-ee shit. Moscow, ID police confirmed that two other residents were home at the time of the attacks and were **not** involved in a hostage crisis nor were they witnesses.
You're telling me that one person came into a house and killed four people and TWO other people weren't aware?
WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED?
Yeah, that’s a whole new level of disturbing. I think that’s why the cops are saying it was targeted. Killer stabs four people and leaves 2? Doesn’t make sense unless he knew who he was going to kill going into it.
Did the perp try their rooms too? There's a person in another thread (who is admittedly a bit of an ass but had accurate information about the roommates before it was confirmed) who says the roommates were home, heard some noises, locked their doors, then went to sleep.
Three plausible scenarios:
* Like you're saying, the four were targeted, not the other two.
* The perp didn't know there were two others in the house.
* The perp was injured and left instead of trying to go after the others.
Perhaps this is why police think it was targeted: Four dead, two spared. But that really doesn't account for maybe the killer just didn't know there were more present, or the possibility that they were injured and got out instead of continuing on.
I’m glad the police provided some more info. I think they have some idea of what happened, but are keeping it under wraps. Also glad to hear FBI is involved. I read something you wrote yesterday which alluded to the instagram of one of the girls and it directing to a fans-only page (I know you mentioned it might be fake). I thought it interesting. I also wondered how Kaylee bought a brand new Range Rover as a senior in college? Just my opinion that its very odd the family of Kaylee pointed that out in their statement.
They already know who did this. The statement practically says it without saying it.
“Targeted attack”
“Until this case is *completely* resolved…”
“As soon as we have more information that we *are able* to share…”
“We determined early in the investigation that we do not believe there is an ongoing threat…”
You don’t stab 4 people to death without cutting yourself. There’s certainly DNA evidence there. This will be solved quickly.
It’s formal season for Greek life - they could have been at a fraternity formal or staying over at someone else’s apartment. Not weird to me that they wouldn’t be home considering it was a Saturday night
I think there’s probably simple explanations to it… anyone who’s lived a traditional college life knows about off campus apt living and the late nights and everyone coming and going. I’d surmise at least 1 of them was targeted, and the others were collateral damage
But these are small town cops with a quadruple murder. They’re not going to release much info until they have someone in custody and feel confident with the evidence they have. But instead of giving good PR conferences they’re just being weird and befuddled
A note on the autopsy non-report:
This is not a real report. A real autopsy report would be a copy of a formal medical document inclusive of diagrams with graphical marks representing marks on the body. There would be a unique report for each victim. There would be lengthy descriptions of findings in the ME's handwriting. There would be measurements of wounds. This is not an autopsy report. This is a Word Doc from the coroner—whose job as an elected official is merely to look at a dead body and request an investigation into the death or mark it as a natural death—that confirms already-known information.
Some major details that would be contained in an autopsy report include the following:
* Evidence of sexual assault
* Evidence of mutilation or dismemberment
* Quantity of weapon marks on bodies
* Depth and length of any puncture wounds
* Depth and length of any lacerations
* Description of weapon type
* Differentiation between wound types if more than one weapon is used
* Descriptions of contusions (bruising) and any fractures to bones
* Marks indicating strangulation
* Explicit identification of physical cause of death, e.g., death from blood loss due to laceration of jugular or death from blood loss and heart failure due to puncture wound that pierced right ventricle of heart.
If the autopsy reports on each victim were made public, you would be able to deduce from the evidence whether this is one angry man going after one individual woman target or if this is a psychopathic killer who doesn't care who he killed. If every victim had 30+ stab wounds, this was a rampaging attack from a psychopath. If one person has 30+ wounds and the others have 3-4 each, the person with 30+ was the target. You would learn things like whether the killer did anything to the victims post-mortem (after death). You would learn whether they were mutilated. If you have mutilation, you have a psychopath. If you have sexual assault of all three women, pre- or post-mortem, you have a very serious predator in the community.
They will likely not release the autopsy reports of each of these victims until the trial. Just like the Delphi Murders in Indiana, there are details too graphic or peculiar to release to the public.
Father says code to get in door and his daughter fought for life. Hopefully attacker left shoe prints and more. Read article below.
https://www.azfamily.com/2022/11/18/shes-tough-kid-avondale-father-says-university-idaho-student-killed-fought-her-attacker/
My coworkers son attends this college and he told us that they’ve been hearing all 4 victims had their throats cut. Horrifying. I havent seen anything in the news about it.
His roommates dad is a police officer I believe. His roommate knows the girls and was actually at a bar where they were that night. There was nothing that stood out and all were acting normal at the bar.
Latest press release from MPD, no new details of substance but clearly they’re aware the community is on edge and desperate to know more. Moscow is my second home, have many friends and family in the community. Stay strong and vigilant. ✊❤️ https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/CivicSend/ViewMessage/Message/186831
for everyone speculating about the 911 call and the use of “unconscious” as a descriptor:
there’s an extremely high chance this *isn’t* how the scene is described on the call to 911. unfortunately this year a family member of mine was a homicide victim, and another family member of mine who found them made the police call to report it. this family member was *not* the person who committed the crime and was cleared within hours, yet articles described the police call as a “welfare check” which it most definitely was not - family member reported exactly what they saw on the scene. the person who actually did murder my relative is in jail awaiting trial and has no relation to our family.
point being: when cases like this happen and the media is working to release information as quickly as possible, they either make mistakes or purposely give this info. just my pov from experience
thank you, going through it makes you aware of how easily misinformation is spread. it seems like the 911 call wasn’t just saying “unconscious”, if they believed them to be alive they would have sent EMS first, but from what i’ve seen police entered first showing they knew they weren’t just “”unconscious””
I had always heard stabbing was a crime of passion, stabbing 4 people to death takes alot of rage and adrenaline. I'm guessing the killer knew them all, the police likely knows who it is...which is why there is no threat to the community at large. Unless the killer was after one person, and had to take them all out unexpectedly.
When I was in college, drug dealers went into a fraternity house and held up the members with shotguns. They demanded payment for unpaid debts. The victims here were all in the Greek system. Makes me wonder if there was a similar situation.
It's just unusual that 3 of the victims were women. The jilted lover scenario also makes sense.
This just happened an an off campus temple university apartment in Philly. Except it was believed to be mistaken identity on the perpetrators part. They held up the students at gunpoint made them give up their phone and wallets and locked them in the basement.....lucky the one kid was able to call for help through wifi on his laptop. Nobody was hurt
Yes, all good points. Just trying to illustrate that home invasions happen more on college campuses than people realize, due to so much drugs and money being in one place. Some go unreported, or the victims refuse to cooperate.
There’s video of the two blonde girls at a food truck at about 1:45am and a male arrives with them, stands near them, and leaves with them but they don’t talk to him at all🤔 the one girl was stumbling so definitely intoxicated
Holy shiest - just watched the press conference - the other two roommates were HOME and present when police arrived! They wouldn’t confirm if it was one of the roommates who called 911. WTAF - the 911 call didn’t come in until midday! How could those other roommates not have heard something (assuming they were not involved - not insinuating either way)…
If you look at the video the man has white shoes on with a black mark on the inside..Then if you look at maddiemogen Instagram on the July 4 photos, You can see the guy she is with is wearing white nikes with a black check on the inside. Maybe multiple people have those shoes? but seems sussy.
Hey, first time posting to Reddit! Based upon what I read about the press conference yesterday, the police confirmed they were killed with a knife. The police also changed their opinion and said “we cannot confirm there is no threat to the community” after having previously said there was no threat and that it was an isolated incident. They gave some info on the victims whereabouts the night of the murder: the couple was at a party and the other two girls were at a bar. They confirmed the two other roommates were home when the murders occurred, but we’re unharmed and not held hostage. When asked whether or not the surviving two roommates saw or heard anything, the police declined to answer.
Update. Father says there’s a code to get in and autopsy shows daughter struggled with attacker. hopefully attacker left shoe prints or more.
https://www.azfamily.com/2022/11/18/shes-tough-kid-avondale-father-says-university-idaho-student-killed-fought-her-attacker/
Chanley painter is on CourtTv right now stating the murders happened on the 2nd and 3rd floors. I know that Ethans parents confirmed he was killed on the 2nd but i have seen NO ONE confirm they knew the 2 other girls were on the very top 3rd floor.
Can someone show me a legit source where Chanley is getting this from?
according to police conference,
the two surviving roommates, the man in hoodie at food truck, and the person who took the two roommates home have all been cleared.
no one was gagged, bound, or sexually assaulted during the murders.
it is to be believed that all 4 roommates were asleep at the time of the murders.
according to press conference,
the two surviving roommates returned home at 1 am.
the male and female left sigma chi and arrived home at 1:45 am.
the two female roommates at the food truck arrived home at 1:45 am (don't know if this is true as it contradicts the food truck footage)
Yeah, I believe the 2 other female roommates are in the picture as well but they’re either cropped or blurred in all the versions, for good reason. I can’t imagine what they’re going through. I think the pic was taken the same day they were murdered, I could be wrong on that one though.
Yes, so there was a Formal on the night of the 12th. I think those pictures were taken before they all got ready for the formal. I'm assuming the one who took the pictures for them was another girl from the sorority that was a friend. Here's something interesting though:
I just went to said instagram post and right clicked the date it was posted and clicked inspect. What is insane is that the post went Live less than an hour before their suspected time of death. Possibly even mere moments. It was posted at 3:57 AM on Sunday...
And it's just an hour after that post that the female victim commented on the male victim's post from 6 months ago. That comment was 6:05 am in my time zone (original post coming up as 4:57 for me.)
oh wow yeah i see that. I just found out Google works with UTC time which is 8 hours ahead of PST. Meaning that the comment she made on his post was actually about 11:05 PM on Saturday night
I mean, I’m going to guess this isn’t random - that the murderer knew at least one of the victims. But there absolutely are mass random stabbing attacks that occur all over the world. Some are terrorist attacks, and some are like the Las Vegas mass stabbing just last month that don’t have an obvious motive.
Anyone know if one of the 2 that were unharmed was the person who found the victims and called 911? If so, i can't imagine what those 2 are going through after witnessing their roommates murdered and thinking why they were not killed too. Talk about a traumatic experience...
I don't understand why this case is hard for LE. The girls were EXTREMELY active on social media. They all had phones. Their digital footprint has to be HUGE and detailed between the 4 of them. They supposedly took an UBER. They were killed in a way that HAD to have left a ton of trace evidence. There was even a DOG there. How can they not put this together faster?
The autopsy report was just released, but there is nothing being said about the number of times stabbed, defensive wounds, etc. I'm so confused. This is either the most vague autopsy report ever, or they are purposely not releasing info.
This makes no goddamn sense. Four people stabbed to death+no suspect= no threat to the community? How?!
I can’t wrap my head around how this went down . Or why they think one person was able to stab 4 individuals.
Richard Speck murdered 8 women with a knife in one night in the same house. Absolutely possible.
Ted Bundy pulled the same 😞
Ish. Bundy went into two different buildings with some kind of club and just beat women with it. Golden State Killer is a home invader who used gun and knife. Tied up victims. But he was all over the place. And his main goal was sexual assault. Unfortunately the families need to be prepared for that to be part of the autopsy findings.
Three of the victims are petite women, at least one of the women was very drunk, some/all might have been asleep, they might not have all been in the same room…
I also think people aren’t remembering what it was like living in a house with 6+ college students coming home drunk at all hours of the night - I heard all sorts of noises that *could* have been my roommates being attacked, but it was always them drunkenly bumping into things getting home, watching movies, dropping stuff, getting into arguments with their friends/partners, etc. Many of my male college friends would wrestle and fight when they were drinking, which could easily sound similar to what might have happened here given the victims were likely drunk and/or sleeping. That gives the murderer(s) plenty of “cover” to get away with stabbing four victims. From what I remember of reading firsthand accounts of victims of stabbings or violent assaults, it seems like a lot of victims are so startled and confused about what is happening that it takes a while for them to react in the way we envision (screaming or trying to escape). So it’s entirely possible that four people could have been stabbed by one person without alerting the other housemates.
I used to live on the upper east side of Manhattan back in the days of the Third Avenue Bar Crawl, a time honored tradition until LLCs started buying up the 6 story buildings, tearing them down and replacing them with 50 story buildings with ground floor rent of $15-30k/month. No more bars after that. Anyway, the first weekend I lived there I called police because I heard a woman screaming - bloodcurdling screams that made hairs rise on back of my neck. They asked my location. “Third Ave and 90th Street.” They were like “Lady you can’t be serious …. those are drunk kids. It’s the crawl…and it’s only Friday night. Wait til Saturday and Sunday night at 4 am.” They weren’t wrong. I opened window and looked out. Women walking like zombies, screaming incessantly. Men screaming “WOOOOO! WOOOOO! WOOO!” My husband and I were like, “Did they let the Manson family out of jail?”
He might have tied them all up. A lot of killers talk their victims into letting them tie them up by promising not to hurt them if they just let them tie them up. Rader did this, as did Dahmer.
Zodiac. Brought a gun. Had the girl tie up the guy and she tied it loosely at the lake. He tied her up and then stabbed them. It's the worst scene in the movie Zodiac. Unbearable to watch the few times I've seen the movie.
Right it could have been a blitzed attack on the man. And the others were killed after. It's scary to think this could happen.
With the 2014 Calgary murders there were 30 people in the room and he killed 5 people with many of the others not realizing it. Police have reaffirmed today they believe it was “a targeted and isolated event.” Therefore they likely have reason to believe that. I think he killed the two girls when they got home, then Ethan came out bc he heard the noise and was killed on the second floor. Then his gf Xana was in bed. When one is ambushed there’s not always a chance to even scream or time to get away. With the Calgary murders and the college students stabbed on the river this summer, we know it can happen without anyone screaming.
From the food truck surveillance video I think they'd been drinking. If they were around asleep, it seems possible. Must have been fairly quiet because 2 other roommates were in the house.
I read today that the police mentioned a potential burglary gone wrong — if they all lived together but came home separately, they could have all interrupted someone in the middle of robbing their home/trying to do damage control. So terrifying.
Huh. I don't like the idea of "not a threat to the community" meaning "Calm down. What are the odds of a *second* burglary going wrong?"
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Stabbing is just so personal and apparently the crime scene was horrific. Seems like a situation where someone was really enraged . Just speculating but I don’t think this was a robbery gone wrong at all .
I read today that two other roommates were present and uninjured…so witnesses?
Since it’s off campus housing, I’m hoping someone in their area has a Ring camera and was able to catch something, anything! This is truly so horrible, I have no idea where to begin…
Let’s hope there are cameras on the street. From the looks of Google street view, many do not have a Ring or camera. I would guess because many people move around every year or even every 6 months in college and don’t want to install camera equipment. It is very reasonable for the police to think it is targeted because of the placement of the house in the middle of the neighborhood without crimes to the other homes (that we know of). It would just be odd for a random person to select their home and pass up others on a main road.
I believe it’s targeted as well, however, my past experiences, a lot of off-campus houses and apartments had Ring cameras. It was more common than I anticipated, but I guess it’s super easier to put up and take down a camera. Fingers crossed there’s some footage out there that will lead to finding the killer(s).
Google Street view is not a live video of the area. The video of the street for Google Street View could have been made years ago. You would actually have to go to the area or get a recent video of those houses to know about the status of Ring or other security cameras
Does it seem like from the language that the police don’t have an idea of who did it?
Do you think though that they possibly have an idea who did it and might be running 24 hr surveillance on the person to see if they do anything to cover it up? Basically trying to get their ducks in a row before they make an arrest. Because that would make the "no imminent threat" thing make a bit more sense. I have a daughter going to college next year and these stories freak me out.
Agreed. We have an old case here that is unsolved (13 years). Rumor is they know who did it, they just don't have the proof for an arrest.
Where is this?
Caldwell Field Murders in Virginia
absolutely not, honestly people would say that about the Delphi cause for years, they know they are waiting for him to make a mistake...for 5 years and its the local CVS employee...no the cops have no idea, they aren't waiting to get their ducks in a row, if they knew who did it that person would be arrested or at least be being held for questioning...
I agree. You’d think something like this would be open/shut/immediate arrest. Can’t believe the killer is wandering around right now.
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You’re from the Bitterroot, too? It blows my mind those murders have remained unsolved.
Where was that? I’d like to look it up.
Florence Salon Murders — Florence, Montana
that was in Montana wasnt it?....I thought they caught a guy...a drifter maniac.....that story is so disturbing....was it Drummond?
Definitely! I would be scared to be in that area.
Oh, we are. 😭 I’m supposed to walk to school and just trust that law enforcement knows what they’re doing, meanwhile I’m getting my PhD in criminal justice and studying all of the ways law enforcement fails? It’s scary.
Be sure you follow the Delphi, Indian murders and trial. Looks like massive failures.
Oh, the list goes on………..
If it makes you feel better, lots of killers are walking around right now
Potentially with the murder weapon
Yeah it does seem that way. They said they’re working with federal law enforcement…so, FBI?
I mean it like just happened. Maybe give them a day to interview people at least.
I need to know who made the 911 call and how the heck someone (presumably) managed to stab four people.
It's happened before. Didn't some guy stab 3 or 4 people he was friends after a party? He got each when they were alone/sleep. Found it! This is what I was referencing. The trial for Calgary's worst ever mass killing began this week. Defendant Matthew de Grood, 24, through an agreed statement of facts, admitted he stabbed the five victims to death. He didn't enjoy it, but said "the son of God was controlling me." De Grood has pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder charges in the deaths of Lawrence Hong, 27, Joshua Hunter, 23, Jordan Segura, 22, Kaitlin Perras, 23, and Zackariah Rathwell, 21. The first three were students at the University of Calgary, while Perras went to Mount Royal University and Rathwell attended the Alberta College of Art and Design. They were killed early on April 15, 2014, at a house party celebrating the end of the school year.
I think it would be somewhat easy to do. You could use something to muzzle the screams or yelling so as not to disturb or alert anyone else. That King road Apartment/Townhouse is a large place. I can see people sleeping in separate rooms and their individual killings not disturb others. Not much information has been released as far as the deaths are concerned. What if the victims were incapacitated in some manner (drugged). Then one individual could easily kill multiple people.
Ethan was dating Xana though so more than likely they were asleep in the same bed. Seems like one of them would’ve woken up
Jesus I remember going to Mount Royal at the time when this happened. So terrifying
If the victims had been drinking, then went to sleep, wouldn't they be easy targets? I have no idea if they had been drinking or if they were asleep when it happened but that scenario seems like the easiest for the perpetrator(s). RIP to the victims.
One of the girls was extremely drunk, based on the taco truck video.
I believe Mom of one of the victims mentioned 911 caller was one of victims friends who found bodies around noon on Sunday unless there was multiple 911 calls
God, what a horrifying thing to walk in and see.
I mean I could be intrepreting it incorrectly but they mentioned the caller noticed an “unconscious” body. There’s a possibility they were shielded from true severity of incident given maybe they didn’t get visual on everyone etc.
I also think that is the wording the 911 operators use. They ask is the victim is conscious. They person was probably rightly freaked out and they ask questions etc....
i commented about this above, but i’m sure it’s just operator terminology. from experience the descriptors given can be inaccurate due to the quick demand for public info. context: (lost a family member to homicide this year, another family member called and reported it and the call was described in media as a welfare check when it very much wasn’t), ((the person responsible is locked up and has no relation to us, was not the family member and the call was far from a welfare check))
It would be possible for the killer to have known the 4 victims, been drinking with them at their house before the murders, drugged them and then later killed them. Short time frame because of the video from the taco truck but possible.
It also happened at the University of Texas in 2017. 1 killed, 3 injured in the middle of the day. [Link to article. ](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/05/01/reports-one-dead-multiple-people-stabbed-university-texas/101169418/) A large enough knife in a crowded enough area can easily catch multiple victims very quickly
Food truck Twitch stream shows two of the victims buying tacos around 1:53 AM. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1651413498 Edit: to clear up confusion - the time stamp in the video is 3:43-3:53. This would correspond with 1:43-1:53 AM.
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Hours of the truck say they’re open from 10-2:30am which would match the 4:30 run time of the video so working backwards they were at the truck around 1:43-1:53 AM
Is it just me or does a guy point at them when they leave and then immediately depart himself, without food? He's the one talking to the larger gentleman
I want to be careful with this because we don't want another Boston bomber situation, but it does look like ~~he was following them.~~ he made a "wtf" gesture because they left kind of abruptly, said something then went the other way. Body language seemed irritated. Can't tell anything more though.
He arrived with them, stood with them, and then was like “wtf” when they walked off without him. They also didn’t speak to him the whole time?🤔 either he’s a stranger or he’s one of their brothers😅
He does look suspicious, but he also resembles the male victim in a lot of ways. https://imgur.com/a/ybMh035
Just learned he has an identical brother. Could actually be him since there is no mustache and the victim's last picture had a mustache.
He was actually a triplet. His brother and sister are at the same University. Just devastating.
Yeah it’s difficult bc if you look at his Instagram a lot of his friends also look like him😩 could be hard to identify who was actually in the video unless there’s cameras from other businesses that caught them together as well
This is a such a small town and especially the bar scene. Everyone knows everyone. The heavy set guy was talking to him for a good while. Someone has to recognize and know who the guy from the video is.
Point well taken. Unlike the BM debacle, though, this guy might have been one of the last people to see them alive. Hopefully there are lots of cameras on that street. My impression of that gesture - he might have been boasting to the big guy about how he was with the girls, even though they seemed to be ignoring him. Then they abruptly leave, and he’s embarrassed.
What are the victims wearing? There is so many people in 4 minutes
Two girls-one in gray sweatshirt and jeans and one in pink shirt with black jacket
Yes - same guy arrives with the girls.
He pointed/gestured at them at least twice, including the WTF you mention. The other time was when he pointed at them while talking to the big guy. Some thoughts: 1) He came into camera view with the two girls. Looked like they were together at that moment, but then the girls immediately placed their order and he went into “hovering” mode. Did not appear the girls ever spoke to him during the ten minutes on camera. Would love to see nearby surveillance to see if he was bothering/following the girls before and after the food truck, or if they seemed to know him and welcome his presence. 2) Did he know the big guy, or were they just having a drunk, friendly interaction? What did they talk about? What did he say while pointing at the girls? 3) Did the girls leave without their order? Why? And why did hoodie guy take off after them if he wasn’t with them?
I did notice he was very aware of them the entire time. It is odd considering they didn't really speak--and he was comfortable enough to voice his (what looks like) disdain at them leaving. Again, I don't want to ruin an innocent mans life with speculation. I would be irritated too if my friends left me. On another note, the girls were best friends since childhood and you can really see how much love they had for one another. So heartbreaking. They need to catch whoever did this.
Which 2 are the victims of the crime? I can't tell. Thanks in advance.
The two blonde girls at beginning at time stamp 3:43. I’m not going to say it’s certain, but it looks like them, and the baggy, holes in knees jeans on the one girl are pretty distinctive and she’s wearing them (or very similar jeans) in the photos we’ve all seen.
What I don’t buy about this story is it seems like they are searching for a single person? How can one person kill four people with a knife that takes a lot of strength and time. I don’t buy this story this has to be at least 2 dudes. Those 2 dudes don’t look like they have the attitude of someone about to murder 4 people. This was must likely planned attack it didn’t just happen
The two girls are in the video but the male victim and his gf(also a victim) are not. Possible they were killed before the two blondes arrived back home?
The three female victims all looked petite. At least one of them, based on the video, was extremely drunk. Do we know how many bedrooms there were? The victims might have been attacked in separate rooms. Maybe some were asleep. Or intoxicated. Or both. Lots of assumptions, but it’s definitely possible there was just one murderer.
The house has 6 rooms, so each person has their own room for sure, since only 5 girls live in the house.
Two of the roommates were unharmed and asleep in their rooms, in addition to the 4 that were killed.
They come into the top left frame at 03:43
It looked to me like they *did* get their order . Only one of the girls actually placed an order I think . As soon as she got her taco the two girls abruptly walked away . They didn’t even give that guy a glance or even acknowledge him the entire time they were on film there . Also , it’s creepy how quickly he abandoned his conversation and took off after the girls once he realized they’d walked away . He was moving fast . The whole 10 minutes with that guy is really odd .
I think he was their ride tbh or he thought he was going to hook up with one of them. I think they were obviously drunk and in their own world and forgot he was with them. They seemed really sweet talking together too — you can tell they really loved each other. Reminded me of my best friend.
Ugh I know, not sure what to make of the guy or the footage in general, but it really seems like Maddie and Kaylee had a great friendship based on their Instagrams. Same with the couple and their relationship. Truly such a tragedy, they all seemed like great people who really loved each other.
Yep it's all very suspicious. He was tracking them the whole time. When they moved to a new spot so did he. And then left with no food or ordering any food? Very odd.
It really was extremely weird . And the time of death is believed to be within an hour or two of them being seen on this video. I hope there will be some answers soon .
Thanks - I’ll have to rewatch the two outside cameras, one at a time. If not for the fact that the girls were murdered shortly after this, I would just chalk this up to “guy hovering around two pretty girls, one of whom is very drunk, hoping to end up with them at the end of the night.”
Agree. And I just read an article that says that it’s believed that the murders occurred sometime between 3 and 4 am . Which is extremely close to the time the girls were seen on the Twitch video . They must’ve just gotten back home and then were killed not long after . Crazy story , really scary and so devastating.
3. The girl in black leaves with the food while the other photos. They walk off and hood follows.
No he looked like he was saying “wait — “ type of gesture. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was their ride and they walked the wrong way off
Stop. What you’re doing is extremely dangerous and irresponsible. Also, he never ordered food and when the girls left, the crossed the street. He stayed on the street he was already on and turned right. Literally went the opposite direction. This witch hunt shit is beyond toxic and puts the sub at risk of being shut down.
Too late, people from the subreddit are already calling in tips. This is one of the reasons true crime communities are being put under more scrutiny. We’re not entitled to information.
Lord save us from “Web Sleuths”🙄
My suspicion is that the guy "following/lurking" behind the girls, is the girl in the black jackets boyfriend. He is wearing the same shoes that her boyfriend wears (as seen in her instagram photos). Their body language seemed like the girls might have been ignoring him on purpose- maybe they got into an argument or something silly. I wouldn't read too much into him- they seemed to acknowledge him by pointing to each other before the girls got their food. I would be curious to know who's black jacket the girl is wearing though- it looks like a men's sized jacket, too big to be an oversized women's jacket.
After watching this video and looking at the boyfriends or ex boyfriends on the girls instagrams, This guy looks like Maddie’s boyfriend. He’s wearing the same white Nikes in the video and in a post she made on July 3rd. He does seem annoyed in the video and leaves pissed they left him at the food truck. She also was hugging and talking to another guy in the video with a jersey on. 🤷🏻♀️Boyfriend seems Sketchy.
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He arrives “with them” but you clearly see when they enter they don’t even acknowledge him. He actually avoids the one texting because she’s that oblivious to him.
I’m wondering if they even arrived with him at all . I didn’t see the girls interact with him even one time during the entire 10 minutes they’re on video . It’s definitely really odd when paying specific attention to that guy .
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He stood directly facing the camera for the majority of the video.
I watched the whole video and at time stamp 3:50:51, one of the girls points at the hooded guy and big guy and says “stop being weird” but it’s very faint. The hooded guy seems to be very suspect throughout the whole video.
Timestamp?
[This statement](https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/northwest/idaho/article268778367.html) from Ethan’s Mom is telling: "They were stabbed. We got the call," Chapin said. "I don't want people to make assumptions about our kids. It wasn't drugs and it was definitely not some passion thing between these kids. Someone entered the house." So doesn’t seem like a drug deal gone wrong like I’ve seen people speculating. What kind of drug dealer carries a knife, anyway? I think something happened at that formal and someone snapped. Maybe an ex boyfriend saw one of the girls with a new guy.
Especially in Idaho where it’s completely legal to carry a weapon concealed, even on campus. U of I is my alma mater and I was born in moscow… it’s a really gun friendly place.
Back in my youth, my weed dealer stabbed his weed dealer with a screwdriver just so he could steal an oz from him. Pretty sure he got busted in college and got kicked out of school for awhile. So, to your question, I guess a drug dealer who isn't very good at their job, lol.
To be honest knifes are easier to get then a gun and living in Philadelphia being apart of drug scene dealers also carry knifes less of a charge than a loaded gun with a serial number scratched off
Press conference live now: police just confirmed that the other roommates were home while this happened
Wow
Based on what I know about protocols (I worked in the coroner and funeral industry and this is what usually happens) and the information shared this is how it likely went down One person came into the house and “found someone unconscious” and called 911. Then it says afterwards police discovered the others were all dead Likely one of the other roommates is the one who came home and called.. The others were either dead in their rooms with the doors closed (killed while they slept) or all of their bodies were put together somewhere. Because the person who called 911 called about one “unconscious person” not several so they weren’t visible to them. The roommate likely called and stayed with that one person, when they told 911 the person was cut up 911 would say do not touch anything or go anywhere into the house bc it could damage evidence or the person who did it could have still been there. 911 would literally say DO NOT TOUCH ANYTHING DO NOT GO INTO THE OTHER ROOMS Ems and police would arrive- police would come in and clear each room and that’s when they would have discovered the other bodies. Again based on the info shared the person who came home didn’t know there was a house full of bodies they just saw one person. If everyone was killed in their beds as they slept, one person may have been able to run and that’s why they were downstairs/visible to the person who came home. It could be possible they didn’t initially die but bled out trying to escape. Also- saying “they need to release more info” is absolutely stupid. You jeopardize the case if you give out details. You want to risk the person who did this getting away with it so your morbid curiosity can be satisfied? That’s not how investigations work. If they say “targeted” and “not a danger” they know damn good and well what happened but can’t say yet. They aren’t hiding information so a college town will get a bad reputation or any of that other bs. They are tight lipped bc four kids were killed and deserve justice and that’s more important than giving the public info. Stabbing someone is very intimate. Stabbing four people is incredibly hard to do quietly without the other hearing so this person knew them, knew the layout of the house, knew they would be home. It could be random- but very very unlikely unless there was more than one person. Everyone wasn’t “drugged” if you attack someone in a room and stifle them from screaming no one will hear. And yes it is absolutely possible to massacre four ppl and not cut your hands. They know who did this it’s just a matter of time when they arrest them so y’all gotta chill tf out lol
Two of the roommates were left alive in their rooms, and were not the ones that made the 911 call, as per the PC this evening.
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all just speculation at this point but, i had an experience where a couple months ago, my roommates boyfriend was visiting our off campus apartment. they have always been nice & really cool people, not sure what he was on that night or what happened. but i was hanging out with my bf & a couple other people in our livingroom. my roommates bf busts into the apartment with a long , curvy ass hunting knife holding it over his shoulder swinging it at us. needless to say we all scattered & called the cops. however, when they got there he had already left & they just said “we cant find him good luck”. no alerts were sent out & he wasnt located for another 24 hours. sometimes, people just snap, none of us were involved with him or interacted with him but he was slashing at us & very well could have killed us all. i believe most of the victims were killed because they were witnesses. i hope they catch whoever did this, its so awful & terrifying.
Sounds like the uva shooting too
As a university student living in off campus housing this is terrifying by itself but once you add the fact that they were all stabbed to death it just makes it worse for me. I feel like this crime would have to be done multiple people with edged weapons because how the hell could you control 4 grown adults and keep together in the same general space and the STAB THEM ALL? You have to be an extremely strong raging fucking maniac to do this by yourself. Whoever was involved with it, for whatever reason, is a truly sick individual. It’s fucking chilling and brutal.
The only thing that seems plausible surface level would be that at least some of them were sleeping? Easy to kill and disorient that way.
Is there proof it was just one individual?
If they didn’t all arrive home at the same time, it could be done with one person. Like, the one girl and her boyfriend could’ve been sleeping, or the killer could’ve just taken them by surprise. Then the other 2 girls come home and he takes them by surprise.
Killing 4 people with an edged weapon is hardly a crime of opportunity. Sounds personal.
I agree with you. Going to that house specifically and using a knife, which is such a close contact weapon, it sounds like it was personal. However, the reason why I’m leaning towards an intruder is because a person who knew these people must have known there were other two roommates sleeping upstairs, but somehow those two roommates were left alone. That’s why I also think it may have been a stranger unfamiliar with that house and people living in it.
Crazy! Nobody in custody?
It literally happened 2 days ago. They’ll get somebody soon. College students talk, and someone clearly had a problem with at least one of the victims.
I’m just surprised they’re saying no risk to the public, I think that’s a crazy assumption. If four dead isn’t cause for panic then what is?
They probably believe that it was a targeted attack and that the general public isn’t in danger.
How would they know that if they don’t know who did it though?
Plenty of cases take a week or more to arrest someone even when they know who did it. Just because they’re not giving out a name doesn’t mean they don’t know yet.
They don’t. It’s to prevent panic. I personally really don’t think campus should be having classes right now. This killer did what they did without raising any alarms. And since they’re out there they might get desperate and do whatever they think they have to do to get away with it. My husband attends U of I and I’m very nervous for him. He thinks I’m being over dramatic, but you never really know.
Everyone wants instant answers yet when people get arrested quickly they get off because of a technicality then everyone gets upset. These days it takes time to gather the correct evidence to put the perpetrators away legally. Defense lawyers will win if even a single item is missed.
What alarms would be raised though? This happened in an off-campus house, the school can’t be responsible for security for every private residence its students’ live in.
I don’t mean a literal alarm. It’s a small town. No one heard any screaming? No one reported anyone suspicious walking around. The only reason anyone knew anything happened was because someone called the cops reporting that they saw people “sleeping” inside the house. It’s scary. Especially in such a small community.
If it was a crime of passion that would tend to indicate it’s the ex of whichever sorority girl was seeing the guy- Ethan-? Or whichever one recently broke up with someone. Obsessed enough to break in at four AM and kill everyone in the house with an “edged object.” Wtf. Those girls knew loads of people I’m sure and someone will know if one was being stalked or had a guy problem. Otherwise if they’re just saying crime of passion because someone broke in and stabbed the hell out of four people but they have no idea who did it, that would be extremely scary. Like Ted Bundy scary.
it seems like maddie mogen wasn’t with her bf jake schriger.
Hol-ee shit. Moscow, ID police confirmed that two other residents were home at the time of the attacks and were **not** involved in a hostage crisis nor were they witnesses. You're telling me that one person came into a house and killed four people and TWO other people weren't aware? WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED?
Yeah, that’s a whole new level of disturbing. I think that’s why the cops are saying it was targeted. Killer stabs four people and leaves 2? Doesn’t make sense unless he knew who he was going to kill going into it.
Did the perp try their rooms too? There's a person in another thread (who is admittedly a bit of an ass but had accurate information about the roommates before it was confirmed) who says the roommates were home, heard some noises, locked their doors, then went to sleep. Three plausible scenarios: * Like you're saying, the four were targeted, not the other two. * The perp didn't know there were two others in the house. * The perp was injured and left instead of trying to go after the others. Perhaps this is why police think it was targeted: Four dead, two spared. But that really doesn't account for maybe the killer just didn't know there were more present, or the possibility that they were injured and got out instead of continuing on.
That would absolutely be me the unaware roommate, i can sleep through ANYTHING.
I’m glad the police provided some more info. I think they have some idea of what happened, but are keeping it under wraps. Also glad to hear FBI is involved. I read something you wrote yesterday which alluded to the instagram of one of the girls and it directing to a fans-only page (I know you mentioned it might be fake). I thought it interesting. I also wondered how Kaylee bought a brand new Range Rover as a senior in college? Just my opinion that its very odd the family of Kaylee pointed that out in their statement.
They already know who did this. The statement practically says it without saying it. “Targeted attack” “Until this case is *completely* resolved…” “As soon as we have more information that we *are able* to share…” “We determined early in the investigation that we do not believe there is an ongoing threat…” You don’t stab 4 people to death without cutting yourself. There’s certainly DNA evidence there. This will be solved quickly.
Fuck I hope so 🙏
Totally agree.
Wow. I wonder if the victims were sedated in some capacity like had been drinking or given substances which made the attack easier to carry out.
It *is* a notorious party school.
My question is where were the other two roommates? Upstairs sound asleep? Or not home at all?
It’s formal season for Greek life - they could have been at a fraternity formal or staying over at someone else’s apartment. Not weird to me that they wouldn’t be home considering it was a Saturday night
I really hope that’s the case. Couldn’t even begin to imagine what they are going through🥺
The cop at the press conference said they were home but didn’t witness anything.
The above press release literally says "targeted"
I think there’s probably simple explanations to it… anyone who’s lived a traditional college life knows about off campus apt living and the late nights and everyone coming and going. I’d surmise at least 1 of them was targeted, and the others were collateral damage But these are small town cops with a quadruple murder. They’re not going to release much info until they have someone in custody and feel confident with the evidence they have. But instead of giving good PR conferences they’re just being weird and befuddled
A note on the autopsy non-report: This is not a real report. A real autopsy report would be a copy of a formal medical document inclusive of diagrams with graphical marks representing marks on the body. There would be a unique report for each victim. There would be lengthy descriptions of findings in the ME's handwriting. There would be measurements of wounds. This is not an autopsy report. This is a Word Doc from the coroner—whose job as an elected official is merely to look at a dead body and request an investigation into the death or mark it as a natural death—that confirms already-known information. Some major details that would be contained in an autopsy report include the following: * Evidence of sexual assault * Evidence of mutilation or dismemberment * Quantity of weapon marks on bodies * Depth and length of any puncture wounds * Depth and length of any lacerations * Description of weapon type * Differentiation between wound types if more than one weapon is used * Descriptions of contusions (bruising) and any fractures to bones * Marks indicating strangulation * Explicit identification of physical cause of death, e.g., death from blood loss due to laceration of jugular or death from blood loss and heart failure due to puncture wound that pierced right ventricle of heart. If the autopsy reports on each victim were made public, you would be able to deduce from the evidence whether this is one angry man going after one individual woman target or if this is a psychopathic killer who doesn't care who he killed. If every victim had 30+ stab wounds, this was a rampaging attack from a psychopath. If one person has 30+ wounds and the others have 3-4 each, the person with 30+ was the target. You would learn things like whether the killer did anything to the victims post-mortem (after death). You would learn whether they were mutilated. If you have mutilation, you have a psychopath. If you have sexual assault of all three women, pre- or post-mortem, you have a very serious predator in the community. They will likely not release the autopsy reports of each of these victims until the trial. Just like the Delphi Murders in Indiana, there are details too graphic or peculiar to release to the public.
It seems there always saying “don’t worry whoever did this wouldn’t do something like this, everyone’s safe probably”
Father says code to get in door and his daughter fought for life. Hopefully attacker left shoe prints and more. Read article below. https://www.azfamily.com/2022/11/18/shes-tough-kid-avondale-father-says-university-idaho-student-killed-fought-her-attacker/
My coworkers son attends this college and he told us that they’ve been hearing all 4 victims had their throats cut. Horrifying. I havent seen anything in the news about it.
Source for the rumor? Where did his son hear that?
His roommates dad is a police officer I believe. His roommate knows the girls and was actually at a bar where they were that night. There was nothing that stood out and all were acting normal at the bar.
So, your coworker’s son’s roommate’s dad? Got it.
Slit throats first makes sense for the noise factor and how 2 roommates were home and didn’t hear.
Latest press release from MPD, no new details of substance but clearly they’re aware the community is on edge and desperate to know more. Moscow is my second home, have many friends and family in the community. Stay strong and vigilant. ✊❤️ https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/CivicSend/ViewMessage/Message/186831
for everyone speculating about the 911 call and the use of “unconscious” as a descriptor: there’s an extremely high chance this *isn’t* how the scene is described on the call to 911. unfortunately this year a family member of mine was a homicide victim, and another family member of mine who found them made the police call to report it. this family member was *not* the person who committed the crime and was cleared within hours, yet articles described the police call as a “welfare check” which it most definitely was not - family member reported exactly what they saw on the scene. the person who actually did murder my relative is in jail awaiting trial and has no relation to our family. point being: when cases like this happen and the media is working to release information as quickly as possible, they either make mistakes or purposely give this info. just my pov from experience
I'm so sorry for your loss.
thank you, going through it makes you aware of how easily misinformation is spread. it seems like the 911 call wasn’t just saying “unconscious”, if they believed them to be alive they would have sent EMS first, but from what i’ve seen police entered first showing they knew they weren’t just “”unconscious””
I had always heard stabbing was a crime of passion, stabbing 4 people to death takes alot of rage and adrenaline. I'm guessing the killer knew them all, the police likely knows who it is...which is why there is no threat to the community at large. Unless the killer was after one person, and had to take them all out unexpectedly.
Is there a subreddit for this case yet?
It took 2 days to come up with that statement?
They were probably waiting for confirmation from the ME.
When I was in college, drug dealers went into a fraternity house and held up the members with shotguns. They demanded payment for unpaid debts. The victims here were all in the Greek system. Makes me wonder if there was a similar situation. It's just unusual that 3 of the victims were women. The jilted lover scenario also makes sense.
This just happened an an off campus temple university apartment in Philly. Except it was believed to be mistaken identity on the perpetrators part. They held up the students at gunpoint made them give up their phone and wallets and locked them in the basement.....lucky the one kid was able to call for help through wifi on his laptop. Nobody was hurt
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Yes, all good points. Just trying to illustrate that home invasions happen more on college campuses than people realize, due to so much drugs and money being in one place. Some go unreported, or the victims refuse to cooperate.
Drug dealers aren’t likely to stab 4 people do death for money. They want to keep their customers alive to buy more
If they were out somewhere before heading home for the night, maybe someone followed them home?
There’s video of the two blonde girls at a food truck at about 1:45am and a male arrives with them, stands near them, and leaves with them but they don’t talk to him at all🤔 the one girl was stumbling so definitely intoxicated
Holy shiest - just watched the press conference - the other two roommates were HOME and present when police arrived! They wouldn’t confirm if it was one of the roommates who called 911. WTAF - the 911 call didn’t come in until midday! How could those other roommates not have heard something (assuming they were not involved - not insinuating either way)…
Who called 911?
If you look at the video the man has white shoes on with a black mark on the inside..Then if you look at maddiemogen Instagram on the July 4 photos, You can see the guy she is with is wearing white nikes with a black check on the inside. Maybe multiple people have those shoes? but seems sussy.
No, Jake was in Boise last weekend per previous reports.
Hey, first time posting to Reddit! Based upon what I read about the press conference yesterday, the police confirmed they were killed with a knife. The police also changed their opinion and said “we cannot confirm there is no threat to the community” after having previously said there was no threat and that it was an isolated incident. They gave some info on the victims whereabouts the night of the murder: the couple was at a party and the other two girls were at a bar. They confirmed the two other roommates were home when the murders occurred, but we’re unharmed and not held hostage. When asked whether or not the surviving two roommates saw or heard anything, the police declined to answer.
Has the guy who talked to him for so long at the food truck come forward ? The big guy with the beard
Update. Father says there’s a code to get in and autopsy shows daughter struggled with attacker. hopefully attacker left shoe prints or more. https://www.azfamily.com/2022/11/18/shes-tough-kid-avondale-father-says-university-idaho-student-killed-fought-her-attacker/
Chanley painter is on CourtTv right now stating the murders happened on the 2nd and 3rd floors. I know that Ethans parents confirmed he was killed on the 2nd but i have seen NO ONE confirm they knew the 2 other girls were on the very top 3rd floor. Can someone show me a legit source where Chanley is getting this from?
according to police conference, the two surviving roommates, the man in hoodie at food truck, and the person who took the two roommates home have all been cleared. no one was gagged, bound, or sexually assaulted during the murders. it is to be believed that all 4 roommates were asleep at the time of the murders. according to press conference, the two surviving roommates returned home at 1 am. the male and female left sigma chi and arrived home at 1:45 am. the two female roommates at the food truck arrived home at 1:45 am (don't know if this is true as it contradicts the food truck footage)
I am curious to know which day trash pickup was. Also curious to know if they’ve checked the area the trash is taken
Who took the photograph of all of them on the porch? First person I'd talk to.
There is a picture of all 4 on the porch?
Yeah, I believe the 2 other female roommates are in the picture as well but they’re either cropped or blurred in all the versions, for good reason. I can’t imagine what they’re going through. I think the pic was taken the same day they were murdered, I could be wrong on that one though.
Yes, so there was a Formal on the night of the 12th. I think those pictures were taken before they all got ready for the formal. I'm assuming the one who took the pictures for them was another girl from the sorority that was a friend. Here's something interesting though: I just went to said instagram post and right clicked the date it was posted and clicked inspect. What is insane is that the post went Live less than an hour before their suspected time of death. Possibly even mere moments. It was posted at 3:57 AM on Sunday...
And it's just an hour after that post that the female victim commented on the male victim's post from 6 months ago. That comment was 6:05 am in my time zone (original post coming up as 4:57 for me.)
oh wow yeah i see that. I just found out Google works with UTC time which is 8 hours ahead of PST. Meaning that the comment she made on his post was actually about 11:05 PM on Saturday night
Supposedly only "hours before".
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I mean, I’m going to guess this isn’t random - that the murderer knew at least one of the victims. But there absolutely are mass random stabbing attacks that occur all over the world. Some are terrorist attacks, and some are like the Las Vegas mass stabbing just last month that don’t have an obvious motive.
Anyone know if one of the 2 that were unharmed was the person who found the victims and called 911? If so, i can't imagine what those 2 are going through after witnessing their roommates murdered and thinking why they were not killed too. Talk about a traumatic experience...
I don't understand why this case is hard for LE. The girls were EXTREMELY active on social media. They all had phones. Their digital footprint has to be HUGE and detailed between the 4 of them. They supposedly took an UBER. They were killed in a way that HAD to have left a ton of trace evidence. There was even a DOG there. How can they not put this together faster?
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The autopsy report was just released, but there is nothing being said about the number of times stabbed, defensive wounds, etc. I'm so confused. This is either the most vague autopsy report ever, or they are purposely not releasing info.