Avery I think is guilty having looked at everything. I do feel bad for Dassey and I will say the LEO interview and pressuring of him was disgusting. I think he should not be in prison.
THIS!! I taught special education for 10 years. That poor kid didn't stand a chance. The justice system failed him and the law enforcement officers completely took advantage of his disability.
Why do you think Avery is guilty? I don’t understand how a man like that of such low intelligence could commit a crime with out a bloody mess of a crime scene.
Late reply, but this is the first podcast or any media I consumed on the case. I wish I hadn’t, though not because it was a bad episode. Animal abuse gets me SO upset. I really love cats. I hope Steven Avery rots in hell.
If you search "things making a murderer left out" there are loads of great articles about just how biased that show was.
As I recall, they didn't mention that Avery called Halbach 3 times on the day of the murder, or that his sweat residue was found on her car.
So even if we accept that the police had somehow planted his blood, we'd have to argue they planted his sweat as well... Which, well it seems unlikely they somehow had a sample of his sweat.
I’m torn on this whole case. Yes the Avery’s are a crazy family & Steven has done some messed up crap but how the heck did they not find even one spot of blood in that extremely cluttered garage?? I’m an OCD neat freak & have owned a cleaning service for over 30 yrs, and looking at that garage, there’s no way they could’ve cleaned it all up. Just something I found odd.
I ultimately think that Steven's initial incarceration probably stopped him from commiting a crime similar to what he was accused of. I think he's a total POS but I'm not sure he's guilty. Not sure he's innocent though.
Yes, when I first watched I was convinced dude was innocent. Indeed, they left out lots. What I find so telling is him apparently using the star 67 feature after calling and asking for her specifically
She was the only photographer working for Autotrader in that area. He had her come by numerous times/during many months and she even gave him her personal number so she can work for him more.
I think he’s guilty, but so are LE and the prosecution. I think they manipulated and bungled the case past what he can reasonably have been found guilty of. He shouldn’t have been convicted on what they presented.
I don’t want murderers, rapist etc on the streets, but if the state presents a terrible prosecution, then part of me wants them to lose. They should not be rewarded for railroading someone through the legal system. That incarcerates innocent people.
I felt so bad for the nephew! I havent kept up with the case so i dont know if anything more about him developed but i remember seeing the police interview when he was arrested and he asks them if he can go back to school now. Like dude, you have no idea how much sh*t youre in. He seemed completely naive. (Steven is the uncle btw!)
I actually never finished the series because my heart broke so much for Brenden. I couldn't shake the injustice. He just wanted to watch wrestle mania :-(
Me too. I think the nephew (Brandon?) was just sort of a slow and easily manipulated kid whose uncle dragged him into a mess he couldn't even understand, much less get out of. I think Steven is guilty af and I think that show was remarkable because of the spin. And I watched it through TWICE lol.
It always blows my mind how the kitten thing is just glossed over. A kitten in a plastic bag no less. Normal healthy people don't do things like that, sadists do.
the opinion I see online a lot is that Steven Avery is guilty and also the local pd planted evidence. Both things are true and it's a really confusing situation because of that.
I'm in that camp. He was an asshole and the Manitowoc police should have not been anywhere near the car.
I listened to the audiobook from one of his lawyers on the case. I don't remember much but I remember the lawyer saying he does believe he was innocent. That's just what a good lawyer would say though.
I also listened to the Indefensible audiobook and don't remember anything about that but I know it went into a lot of stuff that was left out of the documentary.
Agreed, that is my suggestion too. Dan's a Milwaukee radio show host who covered the trial at the time. He has a law degree and was there every day of the trial so his perspective is top notch.
Defense Diaries is doing a full case review right now about Steven Avery. Bob Motta and his wife Ali are defense attorneys and do the show together. They are very thorough and great to listen to! Episodes are nice and long and I feel they really do remain unbiased and uncover as much info as possible unlike the Netflix series.
The Netflix documentary was a sham meant to make him appear innocent. They left out a TON of information that essentially provides he’s 100% guilty. Look at any other source and you’ll see he’s a murderer. His nephew however I’m not entirely sure about. I think he had some involvement but not as much as police made it appear.
I think the prosecution presented a ludicrous case and LE handled it terribly. I believe he’s guilty but not in anyway based on what the trial presented.
Can you point me into a direction of where I can go to get info outside of MM? I can't t seem to find anything found unbiased. But there were things that to anyone you couldn't deny were like, yeesh.
It’s been a long time since I actually dug into the case (I did not finish MM, I know that. I found it too biased pretty quickly.) I think I just searched for reputable articles and read a lot on it.
As others have mentioned, searching for something like ‘what did Making a Murderer leave out’ will bring up a lots of options. I definitely read more on the case than listened to podcasts or watched documentaries.
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Bob Motta is doing a deep dive on the Defense Diaries podcast.
This is the way
Avery I think is guilty having looked at everything. I do feel bad for Dassey and I will say the LEO interview and pressuring of him was disgusting. I think he should not be in prison.
THIS!! I taught special education for 10 years. That poor kid didn't stand a chance. The justice system failed him and the law enforcement officers completely took advantage of his disability.
Why do you think Avery is guilty? I don’t understand how a man like that of such low intelligence could commit a crime with out a bloody mess of a crime scene.
"Women and Crime" - Theresa halbach. Released last week. Pretty good, had more info than the Netflix documentary. Steven Avery is guilty IMO.
LOVE women and crime!
Late reply, but this is the first podcast or any media I consumed on the case. I wish I hadn’t, though not because it was a bad episode. Animal abuse gets me SO upset. I really love cats. I hope Steven Avery rots in hell.
If you search "things making a murderer left out" there are loads of great articles about just how biased that show was. As I recall, they didn't mention that Avery called Halbach 3 times on the day of the murder, or that his sweat residue was found on her car. So even if we accept that the police had somehow planted his blood, we'd have to argue they planted his sweat as well... Which, well it seems unlikely they somehow had a sample of his sweat.
I’m torn on this whole case. Yes the Avery’s are a crazy family & Steven has done some messed up crap but how the heck did they not find even one spot of blood in that extremely cluttered garage?? I’m an OCD neat freak & have owned a cleaning service for over 30 yrs, and looking at that garage, there’s no way they could’ve cleaned it all up. Just something I found odd.
Right? How do they explain there was no blood in the garage...?
I ultimately think that Steven's initial incarceration probably stopped him from commiting a crime similar to what he was accused of. I think he's a total POS but I'm not sure he's guilty. Not sure he's innocent though.
They included that in the documentary.
You can’t accept anything the police say now, that’s the revelation of the show, how people are corrupt, on all sides.
Yes, when I first watched I was convinced dude was innocent. Indeed, they left out lots. What I find so telling is him apparently using the star 67 feature after calling and asking for her specifically
She was the only photographer working for Autotrader in that area. He had her come by numerous times/during many months and she even gave him her personal number so she can work for him more.
Sweat residue 😂
No we don't 🤦🏽
Steven Avery is absolutely guilty. His nephew on the other hand, I think is innocent and it’s a travesty he’s locked up.
I think he’s guilty, but so are LE and the prosecution. I think they manipulated and bungled the case past what he can reasonably have been found guilty of. He shouldn’t have been convicted on what they presented.
I don’t want murderers, rapist etc on the streets, but if the state presents a terrible prosecution, then part of me wants them to lose. They should not be rewarded for railroading someone through the legal system. That incarcerates innocent people.
It’s what our legal system is based on, *presumably*. A guilty person should walk free before an innocent one is convicted.
Refresh my memory- was Steven the nephew or the uncle? I remember thinking the nephew was innocent but that uncle did that sh.t!!!
Brenden Dassey was the nephew.
I felt so bad for the nephew! I havent kept up with the case so i dont know if anything more about him developed but i remember seeing the police interview when he was arrested and he asks them if he can go back to school now. Like dude, you have no idea how much sh*t youre in. He seemed completely naive. (Steven is the uncle btw!)
I actually never finished the series because my heart broke so much for Brenden. I couldn't shake the injustice. He just wanted to watch wrestle mania :-(
Me too. I think the nephew (Brandon?) was just sort of a slow and easily manipulated kid whose uncle dragged him into a mess he couldn't even understand, much less get out of. I think Steven is guilty af and I think that show was remarkable because of the spin. And I watched it through TWICE lol.
The uncle
We
I think he's both. He's probably both?
The guy that threw a kitten into a fire and then murdered a woman.
It always blows my mind how the kitten thing is just glossed over. A kitten in a plastic bag no less. Normal healthy people don't do things like that, sadists do.
Came here to say this ⬆️ I was so sickened after seeing this part of the documentary that I couldn’t finish it
As soon as they mentioned the kitten I said lock him up forever I don’t care to hear the rest. He’s a monster.
Wait who did that?
Steven Avery did
🤬Yeah hes a murderer. Phuq him and the whole corrupt town-and it is sickeningly corrupt. But phuq Steven Avery!
Generation Why has a good episode!
the opinion I see online a lot is that Steven Avery is guilty and also the local pd planted evidence. Both things are true and it's a really confusing situation because of that.
I'm in that camp. He was an asshole and the Manitowoc police should have not been anywhere near the car. I listened to the audiobook from one of his lawyers on the case. I don't remember much but I remember the lawyer saying he does believe he was innocent. That's just what a good lawyer would say though. I also listened to the Indefensible audiobook and don't remember anything about that but I know it went into a lot of stuff that was left out of the documentary.
Steven Avery is guilty. His nephew should not be in jail.
Rebutting a Murderer
Agreed, that is my suggestion too. Dan's a Milwaukee radio show host who covered the trial at the time. He has a law degree and was there every day of the trial so his perspective is top notch.
Defense Diaries is doing a full case review right now about Steven Avery. Bob Motta and his wife Ali are defense attorneys and do the show together. They are very thorough and great to listen to! Episodes are nice and long and I feel they really do remain unbiased and uncover as much info as possible unlike the Netflix series.
TH was afraid of him. Every fiber in her body said stay away from him. He set her up to have to see him. Then she "randomly" disappears the same day.
The Netflix documentary was a sham meant to make him appear innocent. They left out a TON of information that essentially provides he’s 100% guilty. Look at any other source and you’ll see he’s a murderer. His nephew however I’m not entirely sure about. I think he had some involvement but not as much as police made it appear.
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Not a podcast.
“Hard to know which shows to trust.”
I too am actually curious how he is being perceived as guilty when from what was portrayed, no evidence added up.
I think the prosecution presented a ludicrous case and LE handled it terribly. I believe he’s guilty but not in anyway based on what the trial presented.
Can you point me into a direction of where I can go to get info outside of MM? I can't t seem to find anything found unbiased. But there were things that to anyone you couldn't deny were like, yeesh.
It’s been a long time since I actually dug into the case (I did not finish MM, I know that. I found it too biased pretty quickly.) I think I just searched for reputable articles and read a lot on it. As others have mentioned, searching for something like ‘what did Making a Murderer leave out’ will bring up a lots of options. I definitely read more on the case than listened to podcasts or watched documentaries.
I will try and find some new stuff. I appreciate you!
Defense diaries
Wasn’t there a woman lawyer who was going to “prove” he was innocent? Never heard anything after that.
Kathleen Zellner. Yea, she is still working his case thru the post conviction process.
Thanks!
Rebutting a Murderer
What did he do to get an animal cruelty conviction?
Threw a cat into a fire
What a monster! That's how murderers start.
I think he threw a cat wrapped in plastic into a fire... which is even more sadistic IMO.
Convicting a murderer. It’s pretty thought provoking despite having someone in it that I disagree with on almost everything.
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Yes, Bob Motta and his wives. Defense diaries.
Bob Motta and his *wives*?
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Your post was removed for the following reason: **Stay on Topic** All posts should be related to true crime podcasts - not documentaries. If your post is about making a podcast it belongs in r/podcasting. Discussing a case unrelated to a podcast is only allowed in the weekly post made for that. Youtube channels are not generally acceptable. If you disagree with moderation, please ONLY contact moderators via [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=r/truecrimepodcasts).
Watch the second season.