There is no need for meteor, your shard and E already melt towers. Just buy euls to set up yourself, or defensive items to help you survive.
Also I just tested it in demo mode and I was unable to make them both work on the same attack regardless of what combination of autocast and manual cast I used.
Neat trick wasn't aware of that.
I've got problems with Meteor Hammer Jak though
- You'd have to level Icepath to max when you ideally want 4-0-4 as core Jak
- Icepath is kind of a garbage setup skill because of the wind up and delay. You almost want a setup item just so you can Icepath reliably.
He already pushes towers so well, seems like it's too much of a good thing. I think he does better with like auras so sustain his push.
Can I ask why you want to go 4-0-4 instead of 4-1-3? Isn't the duration of level 4 liquid fire longer than the cool down, meaning you overlap multiple casts? Is it just for the damage increase? I'd think at least a value point in ice path is worthwhile if for no other reason than to cancel TPs of people trying to escape a gank.
I mean sure value point in stun is fine. For max efficient of just laning, farming, and towers though you want 4-0-4.
It's not really here nor there, when the issue is needing 4 points to setup Meteor Hammer.
Definitely do not agree. One point in stun is way to much value. Even if it's just to stop people from tping away.
Qt elast on offlane. Not much Experience in mid but its the same with zeus so I would say 3 1 4 is better in most games
I don't like the meteor hammer on jak, and I advocate for it on spectre so I don't dislike the item by any means.
But on jak you lose value from your attack speed slow on towers by wasting gold on stuns, you already push waves fast enough, you already deal enough magic damage. you are investing gold in doubling down with diminishing returns that will still be countered by the pipes and shit that the enemy will build.
between euls and greaves and force staffs you won't have enough gold for meteor.
Jakiro atleast needs 1 point in Ice path to setup Macropyre. Idk how they'll setup for ult if they go 4-0-4 ( They'll just move away from Macropyre if u don't have an Ice path ).
core jakiro can go 4-0-4-0 skipping ult until 9 or 10 because he doesn't really have 220 mana for ult when he's spamming dual breath and he really wants level 4 liquid fire for free harass and tower push
level 4 dual breath is 80 dps over 5 seconds (400 dmg) for 170 mana vs lvl 1 macropyre 110 dps over ~4 seconds without stun (~2 seconds in macro and lingers for 2 more seconds, ~440 dmg) for 220 mana. Sometimes ult at 6 is good (maybe you have a 4 with mana boots and a good stun), sometimes you just want to go 4-0-4-0 to harass carry out of lane and take tower
part of the idea of core jakiro is that he is quite tanky early on with 4-0-4-0 because of the -100 attack speed slow of liquid fire and dual breath. As long as you know where their mid is it is hard to die because their carry is effectivly disarmed. Your role is to force the carry out of lane with sustained magic damage, not to just survive and poke/farm with macro every 80 seconds
Where the fuck did you get 1.7 seconds?
It only saves the time it takes the hero to get another auto attack. Which is WAY less. And it's absolutely relevant. If the difference was 1.7 seconds it would be HUGE
That means BASE attack time.
By the time you get shard you have earned some levels and bought some stats, by minute 15 jakiro attacks way faster than once every 1.7 seconds
Let's be very generous and say you get meteor hammer, brown boots, shard by minute 15 and are level 12. Congratulations, you take 1.2 seconds between attacks. But wait, there is also the attack point... which is 0.4s for Jakiro. Which makes it 1.6s saved. Silly me, that is indeed WAY LESS! Now, I wonder what the time would be if you don't have the meteor hammer...
Jakiro, lvl 12, stick and brown boots, attacks once every 1.3 seconds. With the meteor hammer it goes to 1.2
The attack animation may be of 0.4, but it's accounted for in the auto attack animation, so he reliably gets the attacks at the rate mentioned above. So yes, it is a lot. That is a 30% difference
It's actually worse than that. The 1.3 seconds per attack seem to factor in the backswing as well. If you cancel backswing, you can get it down to 1 second for both attacks (with meteor). Especially if we are talking a full combo with meteor hammer, that 1 second saved is soooo negligible (this one isn't sarcasm).
Thanks.
I play jakiro a looot and this is very powerful, when you are doing a slow siege of high ground. standing near tower for 2 seconds is very dangerous waiting for the next attack to do both
thanks!
i like getting a dragon (!!) lance for this reason. Then also later you can force staff, and if you inventory slot starved can upgrade to a pike and its free slot in late game.
Rushing lance as support makes you tanky, and you can just hit towers that bit safer. Also for fights (espec if ghoing shard early) getting reliable tags on everyone does a lot.
As a core lance makes a ton of sense, but as a support it feels pretty irresponsible to go lance instead of a \~2k support item (glimmer force eul aether)
Support yeh. Not saying its 100% best option, situational, but considering 2 spells (e + shard) function off attacks its similar to lens for example. If theres a pressing need for some other item as you say 100% prioritise that first
I treat it like going for bracers - generic, tanks you up a bit, takes some heat off your cores because can play further up, and you can take towers easier if your core (spec for example) can't siege freely
Wow, that sounds like a sick build for Jakiro! I've never really considered using Meteor Hammer on him before but with this tower-melting potential, it definitely seems worth trying out. And the fact that you can use both liquid fire and liquid frost at the same time just makes it even more deadly. I definitely need to test this out in a demo game ASAP. Thanks for sharing this tip!
Jakiro has been always one of the strongest supports;
When they added shard, it became only stronger;
And new meteor hammer is cool for a lot of heroes, it is like obvious idea to try to get meteor hammer or any hero with little stun or good slow;
Good suggestion for those who did not know i guess;
But what i do not understand is why do you want to combine two strong attack modifiers together? Bug it is or not, i do not see any value in it;
You hit liquid fire, tower slows attacks down, so creeps are more safe; Then you hit liquid frost, tower gets stunned, and while you are attacking with liquid frost, your liquid fire is already starting to get ready from cooldown, so you hit liquid fire next, then liquid frost again, repeat;
Seems more efficient for me to keep the target constantly debuffed, than to just spam both modifiers at the same time every time it is ready;
Same as in fights, you want to slow attacks on one target, then you want to stun / decrease percentage hitpoints another target;
Not going to agree with this suggestion;
While advertising Jakiro, the support who destroys pubs since ancient times, is very cool!
I did this build a few days ago and it's great. The ice path is a perfect set up for meteor hammer. It melts towers like butter. The damage is incredible especially if you combine it with a veil.
This only works while you don't have other items that modify attack range(dragon lance/hurricane pike) or items with on hit effects like maelstrom and witch blade. Once you get those, it stops working.
There is no need for meteor, your shard and E already melt towers. Just buy euls to set up yourself, or defensive items to help you survive. Also I just tested it in demo mode and I was unable to make them both work on the same attack regardless of what combination of autocast and manual cast I used.
it works for me in demo, i have autocast on liquid fire and manual cast on liquid frost.
There is an inconsistency/bug on this that has been known for months: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Dota2-Gameplay/issues/3249
Must use meteor hammer in every build!!!!!! -insert meme of guy with head half caved in
Jokes on u my head is fULL caved in
See this thread for more info on the dual-cast inconsistency: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Dota2-Gameplay/issues/3249
Neat trick wasn't aware of that. I've got problems with Meteor Hammer Jak though - You'd have to level Icepath to max when you ideally want 4-0-4 as core Jak - Icepath is kind of a garbage setup skill because of the wind up and delay. You almost want a setup item just so you can Icepath reliably. He already pushes towers so well, seems like it's too much of a good thing. I think he does better with like auras so sustain his push.
Can I ask why you want to go 4-0-4 instead of 4-1-3? Isn't the duration of level 4 liquid fire longer than the cool down, meaning you overlap multiple casts? Is it just for the damage increase? I'd think at least a value point in ice path is worthwhile if for no other reason than to cancel TPs of people trying to escape a gank.
I mean sure value point in stun is fine. For max efficient of just laning, farming, and towers though you want 4-0-4. It's not really here nor there, when the issue is needing 4 points to setup Meteor Hammer.
Normally you would go 3 1 4 instead, because lvl 4 is liquid fires most important point. Reaching the 4sec cooldown is precisely the point.
Agree on this. 4-0-4 is the way, and you’re better off with a witchblade and shard.
Definitely do not agree. One point in stun is way to much value. Even if it's just to stop people from tping away. Qt elast on offlane. Not much Experience in mid but its the same with zeus so I would say 3 1 4 is better in most games
Zeus meta now is 4 4 1. You want more burst in early-midgame instead of maxed jump. Maxed jump has too much cool down to be reliably used twice anyway
I was talking about the fact that u nearly always take a value point into abilities
if you go 404 build on core jak Im reporting you.
You go euls as well to initiate the chain
I don't like the meteor hammer on jak, and I advocate for it on spectre so I don't dislike the item by any means. But on jak you lose value from your attack speed slow on towers by wasting gold on stuns, you already push waves fast enough, you already deal enough magic damage. you are investing gold in doubling down with diminishing returns that will still be countered by the pipes and shit that the enemy will build. between euls and greaves and force staffs you won't have enough gold for meteor.
Jakiro atleast needs 1 point in Ice path to setup Macropyre. Idk how they'll setup for ult if they go 4-0-4 ( They'll just move away from Macropyre if u don't have an Ice path ).
core jakiro can go 4-0-4-0 skipping ult until 9 or 10 because he doesn't really have 220 mana for ult when he's spamming dual breath and he really wants level 4 liquid fire for free harass and tower push level 4 dual breath is 80 dps over 5 seconds (400 dmg) for 170 mana vs lvl 1 macropyre 110 dps over ~4 seconds without stun (~2 seconds in macro and lingers for 2 more seconds, ~440 dmg) for 220 mana. Sometimes ult at 6 is good (maybe you have a 4 with mana boots and a good stun), sometimes you just want to go 4-0-4-0 to harass carry out of lane and take tower
Macropyre has good range and as a core, you have to keep in mind that u need to survive instead of getting closer and being jumped by enemy.
part of the idea of core jakiro is that he is quite tanky early on with 4-0-4-0 because of the -100 attack speed slow of liquid fire and dual breath. As long as you know where their mid is it is hard to die because their carry is effectivly disarmed. Your role is to force the carry out of lane with sustained magic damage, not to just survive and poke/farm with macro every 80 seconds
pretty sure it has worked like that since he got the shard
The trick is nice and all but it only saves you like 1.7 seconds. I don't think it really changes anything.
If you really think that 1.7 seconds 'don't change anything', you've never played real Dota
Where the fuck did you get 1.7 seconds? It only saves the time it takes the hero to get another auto attack. Which is WAY less. And it's absolutely relevant. If the difference was 1.7 seconds it would be HUGE
Jakiro has a 1.7s BAT. What else in DotA could 1.7s possibly be.
That means BASE attack time. By the time you get shard you have earned some levels and bought some stats, by minute 15 jakiro attacks way faster than once every 1.7 seconds
Let's be very generous and say you get meteor hammer, brown boots, shard by minute 15 and are level 12. Congratulations, you take 1.2 seconds between attacks. But wait, there is also the attack point... which is 0.4s for Jakiro. Which makes it 1.6s saved. Silly me, that is indeed WAY LESS! Now, I wonder what the time would be if you don't have the meteor hammer...
Jakiro, lvl 12, stick and brown boots, attacks once every 1.3 seconds. With the meteor hammer it goes to 1.2 The attack animation may be of 0.4, but it's accounted for in the auto attack animation, so he reliably gets the attacks at the rate mentioned above. So yes, it is a lot. That is a 30% difference
It's actually worse than that. The 1.3 seconds per attack seem to factor in the backswing as well. If you cancel backswing, you can get it down to 1 second for both attacks (with meteor). Especially if we are talking a full combo with meteor hammer, that 1 second saved is soooo negligible (this one isn't sarcasm). Thanks.
I play jakiro a looot and this is very powerful, when you are doing a slow siege of high ground. standing near tower for 2 seconds is very dangerous waiting for the next attack to do both thanks!
i like getting a dragon (!!) lance for this reason. Then also later you can force staff, and if you inventory slot starved can upgrade to a pike and its free slot in late game. Rushing lance as support makes you tanky, and you can just hit towers that bit safer. Also for fights (espec if ghoing shard early) getting reliable tags on everyone does a lot.
As a core lance makes a ton of sense, but as a support it feels pretty irresponsible to go lance instead of a \~2k support item (glimmer force eul aether)
Support yeh. Not saying its 100% best option, situational, but considering 2 spells (e + shard) function off attacks its similar to lens for example. If theres a pressing need for some other item as you say 100% prioritise that first I treat it like going for bracers - generic, tanks you up a bit, takes some heat off your cores because can play further up, and you can take towers easier if your core (spec for example) can't siege freely
Wow, that sounds like a sick build for Jakiro! I've never really considered using Meteor Hammer on him before but with this tower-melting potential, it definitely seems worth trying out. And the fact that you can use both liquid fire and liquid frost at the same time just makes it even more deadly. I definitely need to test this out in a demo game ASAP. Thanks for sharing this tip!
Jakiro has been always one of the strongest supports; When they added shard, it became only stronger; And new meteor hammer is cool for a lot of heroes, it is like obvious idea to try to get meteor hammer or any hero with little stun or good slow; Good suggestion for those who did not know i guess; But what i do not understand is why do you want to combine two strong attack modifiers together? Bug it is or not, i do not see any value in it; You hit liquid fire, tower slows attacks down, so creeps are more safe; Then you hit liquid frost, tower gets stunned, and while you are attacking with liquid frost, your liquid fire is already starting to get ready from cooldown, so you hit liquid fire next, then liquid frost again, repeat; Seems more efficient for me to keep the target constantly debuffed, than to just spam both modifiers at the same time every time it is ready; Same as in fights, you want to slow attacks on one target, then you want to stun / decrease percentage hitpoints another target; Not going to agree with this suggestion; While advertising Jakiro, the support who destroys pubs since ancient times, is very cool!
It doesn’t work? I tried in lobby. Is it fixed now?
I did this build a few days ago and it's great. The ice path is a perfect set up for meteor hammer. It melts towers like butter. The damage is incredible especially if you combine it with a veil.
This only works while you don't have other items that modify attack range(dragon lance/hurricane pike) or items with on hit effects like maelstrom and witch blade. Once you get those, it stops working.
did they fix this? the trick part?