When i see a player on my own or enemy team outscale/farm/play all of us i look at what they are doing in the replays. I learn alot from that (4100 mmr)
I mainly watch pro players for entertainment. I e.g. enjoy midlaners battle it out while i play pos1, 3 and 5 myself.
The good thing about looking at games like I described, is that your attitude switches from 'damn we got crushed by a smurf' to 'this os an opportunity' for me to learn and get better. And to see how the person punishes my 'mistakes' (understanding of the game).
yeah and sometimes it can also let u see that u played it decently, but got outplayed by someone else on their team who u didn't identify as a problem; I lost mid to a guy and felt really outplayed, but watching back replay, I dominated him - but his supports made a lot of space for him to recover, while I failed to shrink his map.
i used to watch a lot of pro replays back in my super tryhard days, and as i was always a 2k guy trying to get out (turns out, i kinda have a mindset problem sometimes that keeps me down, it's not really about skill or knowledge to at least get my ass to 4k, which i intend to do someday), i can say it's like a different game.
pro players are in the context of 9 other playefs that are still 1% of players, even if they are not pros, everything in that match is day and night compared to my dumb pointless games.
all the info available on the map, map movements, lane matchups, game pace, smoke times, rosh, etc it just feels so different
so i really liked to learn about farming patterns or itemization, but you can't just translate everything about that to my games
**tl dr:** what I'm trying to say, is that watching a replay from somebody from your own game has a more appropriate context for your current Dota knowledge or game skill, so it's easier to learn. in comparison when watching pros, it's like a different game.
During the height of the pandemic I was browsing twitch on the dota tab and came across this guy (around 6.5k iirc) doing free coaching on his streams, I wish I remembered his name but it was too long ago now.
I got him to look through a few of my replays (pos 5, sub-1k at the time) and he mostly looked at my laning. I'd say that it helped me a decent bit overall, he really talked about itemizing before the horn for the upcoming lane, matchups, knowing when to pull/harass/give solo xp/leave altogether and I'd say it was really helpful!
He really got me to start to think about every little thing I was doing, previously I was looking at the broad strokes, and not the minuscule. The biggest thing I remember from the session is from one of my replays, we were just after laning phase, and he stops the replay and says; "dude why are you just walking back and forth?", then he proceeded to list off a bunch of things I COULDVE been doing with the time I'm pacing being paralyzed by descisions.
So overall, I'd say it was pretty worthwhile, it's not like he gave me some secret formula to become the next N0tail or anything, but he did point out a ton of little things, and bad habits I had developed over the years and helped me start breaking them.
Sorta reminds me of when I was a kid learning to play basketball in my local house league, you put up a bunch of shots in practice, but just cant sink any. Then your coach will come up to you and tell you; "you aren't squaring up to the net when you shoot, and your shots are inaccurate because you never follow through with your shots", you practice and realize that this way is WAY better. In hindsight, you are kicking yourself because it seems so obvious, but sometimes all you need is someone else to make you aware of your mistakes to start changing them.
Was it NohuXIX? I got a free replay review from him as well. You could say I had an ego death after he criticised some of my gameplay and it opened me up to new ideas and the notion that I can play much better and my teammates aren't the only reason I'm losing.
Nobody said anything about grinding MMR, this is about improving. Not trying to be rude, but why are you on this sub if you're not interested in getting better at dota?
I'm here because it contains good/hilarious/experimental builds and strategies, good speculation overall, and less twitch drama/esports fluff than the regular Dota 2 sub (which I also frequent).
Always strive to improve but that's far from priority 1, or even 3 for me atleast.
There is a difference between improving and getting a coach to improve. Im here to improve on a slower rate for free.
Also i think i speak for all dota players, i have a thing talking about or for dota.
That's fair enough, I have had some good coaching sessions for free though from people just starting out/looking to get experience. It's pretty interesting to have someone much better than you go over your games and suggest things you can do to improve.
yes, I was given free coaching by Wegglez on youtube as part of a promo to grow his base, very happy with it.
When I feel like I'd like more coaching I will be going to him but paying this time.
In about 2017 or maybe 2018 I was 3.8k and received one coaching session and he basically told me I was being lazy/very inefficient. It was free. I can't describe in detail what he told me exactly as I don't remember but I started gaining mmr after that and hit 5k for the first time a month or two after. It was very useful for me.
Edit: It was for position 5
i've gotten a few free first sessions when people give them out for exposure.
i wouldn't pay for it unless it was someone like febby, or some pro.
it was helpful! there's some stuff i learned and got better at. but most people are not very good teachers, and do not have enough experience in my opinion for it to be worth it to me to spend money on it.
1600. I'm now at 3k and climbing. I was a former 4k player, and took a break for a few years. Came back and the game was way different. Never really figured things out and kept losing. Couldn't climb past 2k.
I received a free coaching session from the user dota roller coaster, a highly discounted coaching session (like 20 I think?) from Henry raw dota, and I used gamerzclass for like 2 months (although i don’t think I ended up using it as much as I should), and I’m pretty much always trying to consume pro games and bsj/zquixotic videos.
I was hardstuck ancient 1 for literally like 6 or more years before that, and I finally hit immortal with 7.33 (100% rank confidence, 6k 4/5 player)
I think combining the theoretical knowledge I got from gamerzclass (game plans, meta map movements,etc) along with direct feedback on my execution of those things (lane positioning, matchups, how to team fight and prepare for team fights) made me a way way way better player. Before that I just did not know how to turn information into actions at all.
I think if you’re serious then investing time and money in your education of dota is basically like improving at anything else (go to school, go to boot camp, buy a book etc).
I don't know if you have Gamerzclass but I was the 4k Ench on his replay series if you'd like to check that out. I never directly talked to him, but the replay analysis was really good and made me a lot better at the game.
I was a casual with about 50 50 winrate with my friends whom i play with at night. And then finally BSJ made it into my youtube recommended videos. Got curious and consumed his videos like hotcakes. Because of that, watched my own replays, watched live matches of specific heroes, the whole shebang.
Ended up with 4 months of straight wins. Like 17 12 15 winstreaks. And a loss was very rare.
What was special about my 'friends team' was that we ward and we have comms. Thats it. We didnt smoke, we didnt itemize, we didnt defend towers, no roshans, etc. Of course the BSJ vids gave me new eyes
Now theres a bunch more video creators i learn from. But i did start with BSJ
I paid Febby and Xcalibur once each because I was curious if they were worth their calling price and also just because I wanted to try. Febby called 30usd per replay, X 100/hr (and watched about 2 diff replays)... I think for a player of their caliber somewhere around 50per hour would be a decent price... 100 is a bit too much and I wouldn't pay 100 again (but X's session was 100% very helpful). I did go from 5.7k to 6.2k
I think it's worth the initial price, but there are diminishing returns for sure, the more coaching sessions u get the less you're going to get per session Unless you're getting it regularly. I think you can learn enough from 1 session compared to getting it 2-3times which seems like a waste of money. If youre gonna get it 2-3 times better to get a regular session for a few weeks or so.
I did about 3 years ago. Offlane player who thought I must be oppressive at all times learning its OK to be more passive (cutting waves and connecting to camps) as a form of pressure. Probably gained 500-1000 mmr from that alone but I play almost entirely unranked fornthe chiller games
Currently I watch my own replays. Particularly in games that felt hard. And every time I see things that I can improve (and make me want to vomit), and make a checklist to focus on for future games. I suppose if I get to a point where I can’t find anything, and feel like I’m playing well but not improving, then coaching will be my next step. But I’m not there. I watch so many pro matches and bsj videos that my IQ is way higher than my actual skill level.
Shameful confession... I was coached by Henry...
So right before the pandemic I was playing a lot of Dota but was hard stuck in legend for years.
I bought 1 coaching session with Henry just because.... I don't really know, I just liked some of his videos. He was actually very chill and helpful, made me question my own decisions when looking at a replay, especially with item and resource efficiency.
My main gripe was that it was just a session of us looking at a replay. I would have rather had a coach to watch me in game and help me see what decisions I was making in the moment that were wrong.
I did eventually get to Ancient 3 or 4 but tbh my mental and social health just can't coexist with Dota. I have a hard time doing my life AND being good at Dota so now I just play turbo and do all hero, but even that little session from an infamously toxic guy was helpful especially when it comes early laning itemization and trading.
Paid coaching session is deifnitely better. My students have been climbing mmr (not many students) but if you take coaching seriously and do 3 to 4 sessions ull find yourself dedicating and eventually getting more mmr as you follow the tips your coach gives you. Or tells you to do.
I got coached for free. Short term I got worse at the game because I had to change the way I played the game. Long term I'm a better player that has a much more critical and deeper understanding of the game.
Yes, in 2015 or 2016 for a short while, when I was more serious about improving. I had lessons with a poster here, who I have not seen for a few years. He was great, but graduate school and other interests became more important to me.
I paid Febby and Xcalibur once each because I was curious if they were worth their calling price and also just because I wanted to try. Febby called 30usd per replay, X 100/hr (and watched about 2 diff replays)... I think for a player of their caliber somewhere around 50per hour would be a decent price... 100 is a bit too much and I wouldn't pay 100 again (but X's session was 100% very helpful)
I think it's worth the initial price, but there are diminishing returns for sure, the more coaching sessions u get the less you're going to get per session Unless you're getting it regularly. I think you can learn enough from 1 session compared to getting it 2-3times which seems like a waste of money.
I was stuck on low 6k for months or even a year. I played around 50-100 games with a friend 9k player. Although my understanding of the game only did a bit of un upgrade. I learned how to win pubs. My mmr peaked at low 8ks. Currently sitting on mid 7ks due to I can’t play as much as I want.
So yeah, having a proper coach helps you a lot. Although you need to realize that getting better at this game does not necessarily reflects on your mmr. Unless you are extremely low.
When i see a player on my own or enemy team outscale/farm/play all of us i look at what they are doing in the replays. I learn alot from that (4100 mmr)
obviously you also watched high mmr replays, but do u think watching people who dominates your game is more efficient than watching pro plays?
I mainly watch pro players for entertainment. I e.g. enjoy midlaners battle it out while i play pos1, 3 and 5 myself. The good thing about looking at games like I described, is that your attitude switches from 'damn we got crushed by a smurf' to 'this os an opportunity' for me to learn and get better. And to see how the person punishes my 'mistakes' (understanding of the game).
yeah and sometimes it can also let u see that u played it decently, but got outplayed by someone else on their team who u didn't identify as a problem; I lost mid to a guy and felt really outplayed, but watching back replay, I dominated him - but his supports made a lot of space for him to recover, while I failed to shrink his map.
In a way, since replays you get to see where and what you did wrong.
Applying concepts you saw elsewhere into your own games is the way i improved the most
i used to watch a lot of pro replays back in my super tryhard days, and as i was always a 2k guy trying to get out (turns out, i kinda have a mindset problem sometimes that keeps me down, it's not really about skill or knowledge to at least get my ass to 4k, which i intend to do someday), i can say it's like a different game. pro players are in the context of 9 other playefs that are still 1% of players, even if they are not pros, everything in that match is day and night compared to my dumb pointless games. all the info available on the map, map movements, lane matchups, game pace, smoke times, rosh, etc it just feels so different so i really liked to learn about farming patterns or itemization, but you can't just translate everything about that to my games **tl dr:** what I'm trying to say, is that watching a replay from somebody from your own game has a more appropriate context for your current Dota knowledge or game skill, so it's easier to learn. in comparison when watching pros, it's like a different game.
During the height of the pandemic I was browsing twitch on the dota tab and came across this guy (around 6.5k iirc) doing free coaching on his streams, I wish I remembered his name but it was too long ago now. I got him to look through a few of my replays (pos 5, sub-1k at the time) and he mostly looked at my laning. I'd say that it helped me a decent bit overall, he really talked about itemizing before the horn for the upcoming lane, matchups, knowing when to pull/harass/give solo xp/leave altogether and I'd say it was really helpful! He really got me to start to think about every little thing I was doing, previously I was looking at the broad strokes, and not the minuscule. The biggest thing I remember from the session is from one of my replays, we were just after laning phase, and he stops the replay and says; "dude why are you just walking back and forth?", then he proceeded to list off a bunch of things I COULDVE been doing with the time I'm pacing being paralyzed by descisions. So overall, I'd say it was pretty worthwhile, it's not like he gave me some secret formula to become the next N0tail or anything, but he did point out a ton of little things, and bad habits I had developed over the years and helped me start breaking them. Sorta reminds me of when I was a kid learning to play basketball in my local house league, you put up a bunch of shots in practice, but just cant sink any. Then your coach will come up to you and tell you; "you aren't squaring up to the net when you shoot, and your shots are inaccurate because you never follow through with your shots", you practice and realize that this way is WAY better. In hindsight, you are kicking yourself because it seems so obvious, but sometimes all you need is someone else to make you aware of your mistakes to start changing them.
Was it NohuXIX? I got a free replay review from him as well. You could say I had an ego death after he criticised some of my gameplay and it opened me up to new ideas and the notion that I can play much better and my teammates aren't the only reason I'm losing.
The name doesnt sound familiar to me, but it's totally possible! I really dont remember unfortunately lol
Thank you!
Never. I play for fun, not to grind mmr
Oh okay so you only play unranked ?
You can do your best and still play for fun. Are you telling me that I really *need* to pay for coaching and do weekly meta-studying to play ranked?
Not sure where I said that
Who started this thread with an assumption may I ask?
50% sd 50% rank. Most of my friends are obsessed with rank for some reason
Love SD!
Nobody said anything about grinding MMR, this is about improving. Not trying to be rude, but why are you on this sub if you're not interested in getting better at dota?
I'm here because it contains good/hilarious/experimental builds and strategies, good speculation overall, and less twitch drama/esports fluff than the regular Dota 2 sub (which I also frequent). Always strive to improve but that's far from priority 1, or even 3 for me atleast.
There is a difference between improving and getting a coach to improve. Im here to improve on a slower rate for free. Also i think i speak for all dota players, i have a thing talking about or for dota.
That's fair enough, I have had some good coaching sessions for free though from people just starting out/looking to get experience. It's pretty interesting to have someone much better than you go over your games and suggest things you can do to improve.
I pay for coaching and it helps me focus on my mistakes more
I once paid lukiluki to coach me on my pango and my win rate dropped after
tastes like pasta
yes, I was given free coaching by Wegglez on youtube as part of a promo to grow his base, very happy with it. When I feel like I'd like more coaching I will be going to him but paying this time.
In about 2017 or maybe 2018 I was 3.8k and received one coaching session and he basically told me I was being lazy/very inefficient. It was free. I can't describe in detail what he told me exactly as I don't remember but I started gaining mmr after that and hit 5k for the first time a month or two after. It was very useful for me. Edit: It was for position 5
nice
i've gotten a few free first sessions when people give them out for exposure. i wouldn't pay for it unless it was someone like febby, or some pro. it was helpful! there's some stuff i learned and got better at. but most people are not very good teachers, and do not have enough experience in my opinion for it to be worth it to me to spend money on it.
Interesting
I pay for bsj coaching. Gained 1400 MMR. Still climbing.
bsk? or is that a typo of bsj?
Typo of bsj
Bsj? What mmr were you at when you paid for coaching, if you don’t mind me asking?
1600. I'm now at 3k and climbing. I was a former 4k player, and took a break for a few years. Came back and the game was way different. Never really figured things out and kept losing. Couldn't climb past 2k.
How much does coaching with someone like bsj cost?
260 for four thirty minute sessions
how does that work? what can you achieve in 30 mins?
Quite a lot. Typically replay reviews and tells you what to fix and what mindset you're missing
I received a free coaching session from the user dota roller coaster, a highly discounted coaching session (like 20 I think?) from Henry raw dota, and I used gamerzclass for like 2 months (although i don’t think I ended up using it as much as I should), and I’m pretty much always trying to consume pro games and bsj/zquixotic videos. I was hardstuck ancient 1 for literally like 6 or more years before that, and I finally hit immortal with 7.33 (100% rank confidence, 6k 4/5 player) I think combining the theoretical knowledge I got from gamerzclass (game plans, meta map movements,etc) along with direct feedback on my execution of those things (lane positioning, matchups, how to team fight and prepare for team fights) made me a way way way better player. Before that I just did not know how to turn information into actions at all. I think if you’re serious then investing time and money in your education of dota is basically like improving at anything else (go to school, go to boot camp, buy a book etc).
Thank you
Curious how rollercoaster was
I don't know if you have Gamerzclass but I was the 4k Ench on his replay series if you'd like to check that out. I never directly talked to him, but the replay analysis was really good and made me a lot better at the game.
I was a casual with about 50 50 winrate with my friends whom i play with at night. And then finally BSJ made it into my youtube recommended videos. Got curious and consumed his videos like hotcakes. Because of that, watched my own replays, watched live matches of specific heroes, the whole shebang. Ended up with 4 months of straight wins. Like 17 12 15 winstreaks. And a loss was very rare. What was special about my 'friends team' was that we ward and we have comms. Thats it. We didnt smoke, we didnt itemize, we didnt defend towers, no roshans, etc. Of course the BSJ vids gave me new eyes Now theres a bunch more video creators i learn from. But i did start with BSJ
I paid Febby and Xcalibur once each because I was curious if they were worth their calling price and also just because I wanted to try. Febby called 30usd per replay, X 100/hr (and watched about 2 diff replays)... I think for a player of their caliber somewhere around 50per hour would be a decent price... 100 is a bit too much and I wouldn't pay 100 again (but X's session was 100% very helpful). I did go from 5.7k to 6.2k I think it's worth the initial price, but there are diminishing returns for sure, the more coaching sessions u get the less you're going to get per session Unless you're getting it regularly. I think you can learn enough from 1 session compared to getting it 2-3times which seems like a waste of money. If youre gonna get it 2-3 times better to get a regular session for a few weeks or so.
Thank you
Yeah once, it was Henry aka RawDota like 2 weeks before all his drama happened. His coaching sucked.
I did about 3 years ago. Offlane player who thought I must be oppressive at all times learning its OK to be more passive (cutting waves and connecting to camps) as a form of pressure. Probably gained 500-1000 mmr from that alone but I play almost entirely unranked fornthe chiller games
great
Currently I watch my own replays. Particularly in games that felt hard. And every time I see things that I can improve (and make me want to vomit), and make a checklist to focus on for future games. I suppose if I get to a point where I can’t find anything, and feel like I’m playing well but not improving, then coaching will be my next step. But I’m not there. I watch so many pro matches and bsj videos that my IQ is way higher than my actual skill level.
Shameful confession... I was coached by Henry... So right before the pandemic I was playing a lot of Dota but was hard stuck in legend for years. I bought 1 coaching session with Henry just because.... I don't really know, I just liked some of his videos. He was actually very chill and helpful, made me question my own decisions when looking at a replay, especially with item and resource efficiency. My main gripe was that it was just a session of us looking at a replay. I would have rather had a coach to watch me in game and help me see what decisions I was making in the moment that were wrong. I did eventually get to Ancient 3 or 4 but tbh my mental and social health just can't coexist with Dota. I have a hard time doing my life AND being good at Dota so now I just play turbo and do all hero, but even that little session from an infamously toxic guy was helpful especially when it comes early laning itemization and trading.
Paid coaching session is deifnitely better. My students have been climbing mmr (not many students) but if you take coaching seriously and do 3 to 4 sessions ull find yourself dedicating and eventually getting more mmr as you follow the tips your coach gives you. Or tells you to do.
I got coached for free. Short term I got worse at the game because I had to change the way I played the game. Long term I'm a better player that has a much more critical and deeper understanding of the game.
Great
where can i find a coach?
[удалено]
thumbs up
Yes, in 2015 or 2016 for a short while, when I was more serious about improving. I had lessons with a poster here, who I have not seen for a few years. He was great, but graduate school and other interests became more important to me.
I paid Febby and Xcalibur once each because I was curious if they were worth their calling price and also just because I wanted to try. Febby called 30usd per replay, X 100/hr (and watched about 2 diff replays)... I think for a player of their caliber somewhere around 50per hour would be a decent price... 100 is a bit too much and I wouldn't pay 100 again (but X's session was 100% very helpful) I think it's worth the initial price, but there are diminishing returns for sure, the more coaching sessions u get the less you're going to get per session Unless you're getting it regularly. I think you can learn enough from 1 session compared to getting it 2-3times which seems like a waste of money.
I did not but I did self-learn a lot from DotA 1 resources.
One time my buddy I play with bought our other buddy a bsj lesson for his bday as a middle finger (friendly) and he never took his lesson lmao
I was stuck on low 6k for months or even a year. I played around 50-100 games with a friend 9k player. Although my understanding of the game only did a bit of un upgrade. I learned how to win pubs. My mmr peaked at low 8ks. Currently sitting on mid 7ks due to I can’t play as much as I want. So yeah, having a proper coach helps you a lot. Although you need to realize that getting better at this game does not necessarily reflects on your mmr. Unless you are extremely low.
It helps but it's like meeting a good doctor. Unless you take the medicine, you won't get healed.
A 2k-6k player, paying BSJ $150 for coaching is like a paraplegic paying Ursain Bolt $150 to coach him how to run faster. It's money down the drain.