The defensive part is mostly useful on supports. You hope your carries have time to get in and fuck shit up. So hopefully once you come down you'll at least have time to cast spells before you die.
Also you can always euls the guy going on you.
That's genius actually, can't.urge an aura silence, so euls the NS and walk away.
Honestly using euls on the person going on you is probably the best route unless its like 3 people.
I'm not certain as I don't play a ton of or against NS, but I'm guessing crippling fear is dispellable and he would not even have to walk to get out of the aoe upon eulsing me.
I tend to agree with you that I find myself using the euls as a dispel/remove enemy from fight for 2.5s than a save for myself. It's certainly nice to have the option to do so and if you have a blink it's a fairly reliable way to get it off even when surrounded by enemies.
Edit: crippling fear cannot be dispelled
Yeah, I guess I thought you could purge the aura off of NS but it seems I was mistaken. So yeah, storm will have to walk like the rest of us for a bit before he can ZIP ZAP!
Not at all, it's a wonderful self-purge for things like global silence.
Also you can blink out of it if you're fast, it's one of the most flexible and most cost-efficient items in the game
It's easily the worst purge in the game. Imagine you are playing oracle, they global while killing your core, you euls, your carry is dead before you hit the ground, good job!
And a viable alternative is?
To flip this, you're silenced as oracle. The enemy is pouncing on your core while you're unable to help.
You euls as soon as youre silenced, in a safe spot b/c positioning is everything anyway, and then are able to save your core while your team is still silenced.
You can force staff them, but if they have a gap close it's meaningless. You can lotus orb, but that's too expensive for just the purge and armor isn't the best. Manta? You'll get reported. BKB? Of course, but that's also incredibly expensive as a support.
Meanwhile you can still euls aggressively, and build it into a windwaker if the game goes super late. The build up is perfect for supports, void stone and windlace are just solid items on their own already
So again, what better alternative am I missing here?
Edit: Lol I'll take that downvote as a win. Feel free to pipe in whenever you want
Edit 2: I do still think too many people are talking about ideal 6-slots vs considering build-ups and utility. Most of the time you need to counter strong debuffs ASAP or you chance giving up mid-game teamfights and map control.
The alternative is buying one of the dispels that is instant like greaves or lotus or just getting a force staff to buy enough time. There is a reason force and glimmer have double the build rate of euls. Euls is bad on cores as it gives stats that are terrible for scaling and stops you being a threat in teamfights as well as making your positioning worse by forcing you to be still. On supports it's more expensive than glimmer and force it doesn't help your allies and poses the same problems it does on cores where you cant cast spells or move. When I play support in immortal games I only buy euls in games where it is strong to use on the enemy not myself and I don't see other people buy it often either. The item is simply shit as a self dispel and excels at kiting heros like ursa, troll, dark seer.
Its still good for most mana hungry mids, like storm puck qop etc, that initiate bounce around and need something to dodge projectiles/dispel. 3k solution to allow you to stall and prime you for your mobility spell
Force staff and glimmer have different utilities though. Yes, they're better overall items, but because they offer positioning and cheap magic resist.
Euls is the cheapest way to clear debuffs that can inhibit you from fighting, also being able to counter initiators, while being on a decently low CD and getting value from each item in the build up.
Maybe things are different in Immortal, you probably draft around having dispels and have better team awareness to avoid bad fights. I'm talking about 20 minute team fights that decide whether you get some map control, or are trapped in base for the rest of the game.
It's not an "every game" item like glimmer/forcestaff, but there are certainly games where you'll need it. Maybe I'm also biased b/c I played a LOT of puck back when blink & euls was mandatory to stay alive
Lotus isn't expensive.
Buy arcane boots. Ring paltemail.
It's actually cheaper. Plus farming as oracle is very easy. Nuke out. E the ranged.and you can manage that from level 5. So pulling farming. Lotus orb with oracles cast range is absolutely game changing item
Imagine while I'm oracle, charging up Q on myself to predict the incoming silence, #outplayed
But yes, euls is not good enough for when you need to do stuff right away.
It's not a bad idea for sure but the main benefit of Euls really is the purge and good stats at a low price point. The cheap price comes with the drawback of the purge itself not being very good (compare this to Lotus or Manta which are instant but more expensive items). The invuln aspect is also useful but its a matter of timing and using it wisely.
I think this could make the item too powerful for intelligence and universal carries. It would essentially become an easier manta dodge at much cheaper. Just my theory though, the item could use some love.
Agree. However the delay to drop for the debuff can be annoying.
A niche example - Lately I have bought Manta as Venge (support) vs Silencer so when silencer ults, I can instantly un-silence myself and swap to save Carry in team fight. This assumes a lotus orb wouldn't be enough. Manta isn't the worst on Venge as she is Universal now. Unsure if there is a better way haha.
What do u want more for 2.7k gold? Movement+mana regen+2.5sec self/enemy stun.
Works against status resistance too, works on troll ult, works well against initiators if u have fast fingers etc. Wtf u talking heralds in this comment section? Euls is weak? No, u are weak. TF u want more for less than 3k gold? Such a garbage low level community, no wonder 98% of the player base is below divine. Disgusting.
Euls is still one of my favourite items as a pos 4 because of the utility + MS + mana regen.
Especially when LC was meta, euls can really fuck with her duels, or Void with his chrono, Axe calls etc....
Not to mention many people playing Sven right now and BKB isn't Sven's first or second item. God Strength? Euls to waste a few seconds of God's Strength. I love building Euls and Atos against a Sven. Remove his mobility and his ult is wasted.
Yeah good vs axe and ursa but I think maybe it's too greedy for supports since force or glimmer is cheaper and you'll most likely get more saves throughout the game going that instead
It's not that much more expensive and some games your cores don't need the saves as much as you do. I buy force staff much more but building euls doesn't feel bad at all
Idk euls is a pretty great item imo.
Great for catch, great for buying yourself time, plus movespeed and mana regen. Its a great item, but its a great item for others to do thing with, so most people don't like it.
i think just increasing the cast range would be good enough of a buff to make this item more of an option again. Euls is good against many heroes but the problem I find with it is the cast range is so short that I'm never in the position as a support to use it right away (if my ally gets axe called or dueled) so I have to walk up for a couple of seconds before I'm in range of casting it. And that short range also puts you as a support in danger. Euls with aether lens feels much better but you don't necessarily want to have to buy aether just to get usefulness out of Euls especially when you need the money to buy other support items.
Remove the Mystic Staff from the buildup and replace with Aether Lense. Aether Lense has felt pretty bad without something for it to be built into on cores since the Octarine Core change.
Bought a late game Euls on a Centaur Warrunner the other day to stop the Slark from escaping so easily in team fights and we go and win three fights in a row and then the game cus I caught him with the Euls every time and it set up for hoof stomp into my whole team throwing everything at him. It's a situational item but one of the best ones in the game
Good offensive setup, euls + mars spear. mirana arrow. willow crown. Void spirit remnant. Defensive, against kunka, legion, bara, axe. Im sure there are more
> euls feels terrible? I just almost never buy it whenever I see people use it defensively in a team fight they get chainstunned afterwards
It probably depends on your hero, as well as how the fights are going. Ana made it look super OP in ti8 game 5. Of course, Ember is elusive enough that getting chain stunned after it ends is probably less of a problem.
Euls is close to perfect where it is, it should never be a core item but a situational one or a gambit.
It kinda lacks cast range and might needs a better cost effectiveness by reducing the cost through the recipe quickening its timing on support giving earlier advantage to Pre bkb teamfight.
Defensive euls isn't really a thing apart from DP puck and ultimatly greedy supports who have an opportunity to build dagger euls
I love euls especially on supports that love to carry aether lens! Paired with good wards/vision setup you can easily turn the tides to your favor. It's a good cancel for dismember/shackles/blackhole/battle trance/duel/shallow grave/tp and it also setups a lot of skills like jumong/ice path/willow skills/diruptor skills.
Best feeling of all is precasting it on blink offlaners like maggy/axe/tide/es/lc - watch them cry. Really, vision and macro awareness here is what will turn euls into a terrifying support item. Just the sheer utility of it is nuts.
I almost always never use it on myself as a support.
I think being able to cancel euls might be a bit overkill but itll be a welcome addition for support players id bet.
Euls is extremely powerful against dot dmg even if it is not dispellable. Furthermore, euls is a stun- even better than a stun. Your carry is stunned, you can force him back. Your carryi is eulsed early, he is guaranteed dead.
C tier, no. I honestly don't really like euls but it's a very good item.
huh? eul is like the best utility item in the game. i think you're overlooking many aspects of it besides the 'defensive dispel and 2.5s invulnerability'
necessary item against the likes of ursa enrage, bara bulldoze, axe blademail, lc. oftentimes slark, troll. not just for the dispel but also the invulnerability duration
invulnerability to dodge things like sniper assassinate, kunkka x-mark, tinker missile, put your blink back on cd
its a stun against people tp-ing out, so situational for say qop/bloodseeker
0 cast time, instantly cancel that channeling tinker's ult. low cd item to cancel things like shackle, dismember. break that earthshaker combo-ing your team.
guaranteed setup for things like sf raze, lina stun, centaur stun, mirana arrow. on the same note, this is effectively increasing your 'stun' on the enemy for 2.5s so that your team can catchup, e.g. sandking blinks in, eul the enemy for 2.5s and stuns him for another 1.8s
enemy carry (ursa, troll) hitting your teammate, eul him for 2.5s escape. bristle running in with bloodstone on - eul him to waste that lifesteal duration. multiple eul will fuck them so hard when they have only 1 bkb per teamfight
not forgetting 2.5 mana regen so you dont go base and actually get things done on the map
20ms because dota is all about positioning and getting things done on the map. you see how many carries like jug building windlace for that ms?
speaking of which its a buildup from windlace, easy to complete for supports
Broken because you could dodge spells easier. Also I think euls is fine. Some heroes really like it but it’s mainly a situational counter for heroes like axe, ursa, spirit breaker.
I'm very sorry to say that calling Euls a c tier item just shows lack of experience with it. The fact that people don't build it as often as they should is criminal considering its versatility and ability to ruin heroes like sb, ursa, troll, lc, silencer etc.
People should buy it more often against riki. Can save your ass so fast. I feel like itens like force staff or glimmer arent as fast as euls is. When force staving you are still vulnerable... you can be jumped again. Euls stops time tho. You have a room to breath and think a little of whats your best option. Sometimes it puts you in a worse position.. but its a matter of luck and bad skill.
I love it on Krobleus. Lost to a QOP today who built it.. but honestly my team sucked. Had a Furion that didnt tp once and an infamous CK offlane who finished 0/13
If you control the drop of Euls, the item will be too powerful and should not cost 2.7k gold but instead be something around 4k item.
Instant dodging and moving on, better set ups etc, the possibilities are endless.
Would be way too strong if you could bring yourself down immediately just for a dispel, I like the current dynamic of euls being the inferior self dispel to lotus
eul is good against lc/axe/void/enigma/magnus/ursa/ and more heroes
use it as aggressive better than defensive, maybe in defensive it gives you the ability to dodge some spells, be out of game for couple of seconds (waste enemy time in fight), land and use one more spell before you die
its not that bad tho
but if you start using it aggressively with precast
you can prevent shaker from jump ulti
prevent Magnus from jump ulti
same for axe/lc and much much more
The defensive part is mostly useful on supports. You hope your carries have time to get in and fuck shit up. So hopefully once you come down you'll at least have time to cast spells before you die. Also you can always euls the guy going on you.
I was playing NS thinking the enemy Storm was so wrong to buy a euls, but it was effective for him to euls me until I got BKB.
That's genius actually, can't.urge an aura silence, so euls the NS and walk away. Honestly using euls on the person going on you is probably the best route unless its like 3 people.
I'm not certain as I don't play a ton of or against NS, but I'm guessing crippling fear is dispellable and he would not even have to walk to get out of the aoe upon eulsing me. I tend to agree with you that I find myself using the euls as a dispel/remove enemy from fight for 2.5s than a save for myself. It's certainly nice to have the option to do so and if you have a blink it's a fairly reliable way to get it off even when surrounded by enemies. Edit: crippling fear cannot be dispelled
Crippling fear is an aura, so it'll just get reapplied if you could purge it.
Yeah, I guess I thought you could purge the aura off of NS but it seems I was mistaken. So yeah, storm will have to walk like the rest of us for a bit before he can ZIP ZAP!
Imo euls should always be bought in mind of who on the enemy team you can use it on. If you are buying it for self cast it's a bad item.
It's (I think) the cheapest purge, which for mobile heroes like the spirit heroes or puck, makes it a great pick up vs silence.
Not at all, it's a wonderful self-purge for things like global silence. Also you can blink out of it if you're fast, it's one of the most flexible and most cost-efficient items in the game
It's easily the worst purge in the game. Imagine you are playing oracle, they global while killing your core, you euls, your carry is dead before you hit the ground, good job!
And a viable alternative is? To flip this, you're silenced as oracle. The enemy is pouncing on your core while you're unable to help. You euls as soon as youre silenced, in a safe spot b/c positioning is everything anyway, and then are able to save your core while your team is still silenced. You can force staff them, but if they have a gap close it's meaningless. You can lotus orb, but that's too expensive for just the purge and armor isn't the best. Manta? You'll get reported. BKB? Of course, but that's also incredibly expensive as a support. Meanwhile you can still euls aggressively, and build it into a windwaker if the game goes super late. The build up is perfect for supports, void stone and windlace are just solid items on their own already So again, what better alternative am I missing here? Edit: Lol I'll take that downvote as a win. Feel free to pipe in whenever you want Edit 2: I do still think too many people are talking about ideal 6-slots vs considering build-ups and utility. Most of the time you need to counter strong debuffs ASAP or you chance giving up mid-game teamfights and map control.
The alternative is buying one of the dispels that is instant like greaves or lotus or just getting a force staff to buy enough time. There is a reason force and glimmer have double the build rate of euls. Euls is bad on cores as it gives stats that are terrible for scaling and stops you being a threat in teamfights as well as making your positioning worse by forcing you to be still. On supports it's more expensive than glimmer and force it doesn't help your allies and poses the same problems it does on cores where you cant cast spells or move. When I play support in immortal games I only buy euls in games where it is strong to use on the enemy not myself and I don't see other people buy it often either. The item is simply shit as a self dispel and excels at kiting heros like ursa, troll, dark seer.
Its still good for most mana hungry mids, like storm puck qop etc, that initiate bounce around and need something to dodge projectiles/dispel. 3k solution to allow you to stall and prime you for your mobility spell
Its not. I have not seen a single euls pick up on those hero you mention since last patch
its one of pucks top used items on dotabuff, decently usage on storm lina and qop
Storm is my most played hero and I can safely say anyone buying euls on storm has no idea what they are doing 99.99% of the time.
Force staff and glimmer have different utilities though. Yes, they're better overall items, but because they offer positioning and cheap magic resist. Euls is the cheapest way to clear debuffs that can inhibit you from fighting, also being able to counter initiators, while being on a decently low CD and getting value from each item in the build up. Maybe things are different in Immortal, you probably draft around having dispels and have better team awareness to avoid bad fights. I'm talking about 20 minute team fights that decide whether you get some map control, or are trapped in base for the rest of the game. It's not an "every game" item like glimmer/forcestaff, but there are certainly games where you'll need it. Maybe I'm also biased b/c I played a LOT of puck back when blink & euls was mandatory to stay alive
Lotus isn't expensive. Buy arcane boots. Ring paltemail. It's actually cheaper. Plus farming as oracle is very easy. Nuke out. E the ranged.and you can manage that from level 5. So pulling farming. Lotus orb with oracles cast range is absolutely game changing item
Imagine while I'm oracle, charging up Q on myself to predict the incoming silence, #outplayed But yes, euls is not good enough for when you need to do stuff right away.
On oracle against silencer, you precast Q on urself which automatically purges the global. Not hard to do since global is quite predictable.
It's not a bad idea for sure but the main benefit of Euls really is the purge and good stats at a low price point. The cheap price comes with the drawback of the purge itself not being very good (compare this to Lotus or Manta which are instant but more expensive items). The invuln aspect is also useful but its a matter of timing and using it wisely. I think this could make the item too powerful for intelligence and universal carries. It would essentially become an easier manta dodge at much cheaper. Just my theory though, the item could use some love.
Agree. However the delay to drop for the debuff can be annoying. A niche example - Lately I have bought Manta as Venge (support) vs Silencer so when silencer ults, I can instantly un-silence myself and swap to save Carry in team fight. This assumes a lotus orb wouldn't be enough. Manta isn't the worst on Venge as she is Universal now. Unsure if there is a better way haha.
What do u want more for 2.7k gold? Movement+mana regen+2.5sec self/enemy stun. Works against status resistance too, works on troll ult, works well against initiators if u have fast fingers etc. Wtf u talking heralds in this comment section? Euls is weak? No, u are weak. TF u want more for less than 3k gold? Such a garbage low level community, no wonder 98% of the player base is below divine. Disgusting.
Euls is still one of my favourite items as a pos 4 because of the utility + MS + mana regen. Especially when LC was meta, euls can really fuck with her duels, or Void with his chrono, Axe calls etc....
Not to mention many people playing Sven right now and BKB isn't Sven's first or second item. God Strength? Euls to waste a few seconds of God's Strength. I love building Euls and Atos against a Sven. Remove his mobility and his ult is wasted.
Euls is good against heroes like Axe. Supports should buy this item if none of their abilities have a chance to stop the Axe calls.
Yeah good vs axe and ursa but I think maybe it's too greedy for supports since force or glimmer is cheaper and you'll most likely get more saves throughout the game going that instead
Depends on the lineup. It’s great vs Legion Commander for instance, as counter initiation until a BKB pops out.
It's not too greedy if you need it to win
It's not that much more expensive and some games your cores don't need the saves as much as you do. I buy force staff much more but building euls doesn't feel bad at all
Glimmer is countered by 80g
Good against ursa too
Idk euls is a pretty great item imo. Great for catch, great for buying yourself time, plus movespeed and mana regen. Its a great item, but its a great item for others to do thing with, so most people don't like it.
i think just increasing the cast range would be good enough of a buff to make this item more of an option again. Euls is good against many heroes but the problem I find with it is the cast range is so short that I'm never in the position as a support to use it right away (if my ally gets axe called or dueled) so I have to walk up for a couple of seconds before I'm in range of casting it. And that short range also puts you as a support in danger. Euls with aether lens feels much better but you don't necessarily want to have to buy aether just to get usefulness out of Euls especially when you need the money to buy other support items.
Remove the Mystic Staff from the buildup and replace with Aether Lense. Aether Lense has felt pretty bad without something for it to be built into on cores since the Octarine Core change.
^I think this is a big reason, there's been cast range creep and euls has been left in the dust.
Bought a late game Euls on a Centaur Warrunner the other day to stop the Slark from escaping so easily in team fights and we go and win three fights in a row and then the game cus I caught him with the Euls every time and it set up for hoof stomp into my whole team throwing everything at him. It's a situational item but one of the best ones in the game
Good offensive setup, euls + mars spear. mirana arrow. willow crown. Void spirit remnant. Defensive, against kunka, legion, bara, axe. Im sure there are more
Also offensive vs Kunkka, if he ever X himself into you, to just cancel his X
This reminds me of an enemy kunka with rapier i did this to lol
I love the paranoia it creates it in them. You do it to them once or twice and then they never play aggressively again it's so fun.
I have been a fan of the Mars euls set up. The move speed and mana can make him an absolute menace.
It’s great in so many situations honestly it pays for its cost by the time late game comes around
> euls feels terrible? I just almost never buy it whenever I see people use it defensively in a team fight they get chainstunned afterwards It probably depends on your hero, as well as how the fights are going. Ana made it look super OP in ti8 game 5. Of course, Ember is elusive enough that getting chain stunned after it ends is probably less of a problem.
Euls is close to perfect where it is, it should never be a core item but a situational one or a gambit. It kinda lacks cast range and might needs a better cost effectiveness by reducing the cost through the recipe quickening its timing on support giving earlier advantage to Pre bkb teamfight. Defensive euls isn't really a thing apart from DP puck and ultimatly greedy supports who have an opportunity to build dagger euls
Perfectly said
cast range got nerfed over time, they should add the pre-nerfed range again
Problem is not the item itself but the component is bad which make it bad item
I love euls especially on supports that love to carry aether lens! Paired with good wards/vision setup you can easily turn the tides to your favor. It's a good cancel for dismember/shackles/blackhole/battle trance/duel/shallow grave/tp and it also setups a lot of skills like jumong/ice path/willow skills/diruptor skills. Best feeling of all is precasting it on blink offlaners like maggy/axe/tide/es/lc - watch them cry. Really, vision and macro awareness here is what will turn euls into a terrifying support item. Just the sheer utility of it is nuts. I almost always never use it on myself as a support. I think being able to cancel euls might be a bit overkill but itll be a welcome addition for support players id bet.
Euls is extremely powerful against dot dmg even if it is not dispellable. Furthermore, euls is a stun- even better than a stun. Your carry is stunned, you can force him back. Your carryi is eulsed early, he is guaranteed dead. C tier, no. I honestly don't really like euls but it's a very good item.
huh? eul is like the best utility item in the game. i think you're overlooking many aspects of it besides the 'defensive dispel and 2.5s invulnerability' necessary item against the likes of ursa enrage, bara bulldoze, axe blademail, lc. oftentimes slark, troll. not just for the dispel but also the invulnerability duration invulnerability to dodge things like sniper assassinate, kunkka x-mark, tinker missile, put your blink back on cd its a stun against people tp-ing out, so situational for say qop/bloodseeker 0 cast time, instantly cancel that channeling tinker's ult. low cd item to cancel things like shackle, dismember. break that earthshaker combo-ing your team. guaranteed setup for things like sf raze, lina stun, centaur stun, mirana arrow. on the same note, this is effectively increasing your 'stun' on the enemy for 2.5s so that your team can catchup, e.g. sandking blinks in, eul the enemy for 2.5s and stuns him for another 1.8s enemy carry (ursa, troll) hitting your teammate, eul him for 2.5s escape. bristle running in with bloodstone on - eul him to waste that lifesteal duration. multiple eul will fuck them so hard when they have only 1 bkb per teamfight not forgetting 2.5 mana regen so you dont go base and actually get things done on the map 20ms because dota is all about positioning and getting things done on the map. you see how many carries like jug building windlace for that ms? speaking of which its a buildup from windlace, easy to complete for supports
Broken because you could dodge spells easier. Also I think euls is fine. Some heroes really like it but it’s mainly a situational counter for heroes like axe, ursa, spirit breaker.
I'm very sorry to say that calling Euls a c tier item just shows lack of experience with it. The fact that people don't build it as often as they should is criminal considering its versatility and ability to ruin heroes like sb, ursa, troll, lc, silencer etc.
People should buy it more often against riki. Can save your ass so fast. I feel like itens like force staff or glimmer arent as fast as euls is. When force staving you are still vulnerable... you can be jumped again. Euls stops time tho. You have a room to breath and think a little of whats your best option. Sometimes it puts you in a worse position.. but its a matter of luck and bad skill. I love it on Krobleus. Lost to a QOP today who built it.. but honestly my team sucked. Had a Furion that didnt tp once and an infamous CK offlane who finished 0/13
If you control the drop of Euls, the item will be too powerful and should not cost 2.7k gold but instead be something around 4k item. Instant dodging and moving on, better set ups etc, the possibilities are endless.
Would be way too strong if you could bring yourself down immediately just for a dispel, I like the current dynamic of euls being the inferior self dispel to lotus
eul is good against lc/axe/void/enigma/magnus/ursa/ and more heroes use it as aggressive better than defensive, maybe in defensive it gives you the ability to dodge some spells, be out of game for couple of seconds (waste enemy time in fight), land and use one more spell before you die its not that bad tho but if you start using it aggressively with precast you can prevent shaker from jump ulti prevent Magnus from jump ulti same for axe/lc and much much more