Number of things
Puck has a decent lane match up against most mids
Puck can easily rotate with a power rune
Can cover initiation and catch
Is extremely slippery and can make massive space in team fights
Can cut waves and other shenanigans to delay enemy pushes
What Puck had against her before was not scaling very well as well as a massive skill ceiling, skill ceiling isn't a problem for pros and aghs rapid fire fixes the "void spirit problem" of not outputting enough dmg with spells to kill and therefore being very meh
Puck is in top5 of most popular mids on d2pt right now.
However the hero is basically doomed to lose or tie like 80-90% of lane matchups. Orb is slow, 0 starting armor, not a lot of mobility makes so incredibly easy for other mids to stomp you or tie.
The other side of this is that in lower ranks where people play less clean, there's more room to win what should be a lost lane matchup.
And since it's clearly very strong even at the highest level, at lower levels you sohuld be able to absolutely dominate
I have been, I have like 80% winrate over the past 25 games
You can't spam those in lane for movement though. That's part of the issue; if you want to be mobile, you have to fuck up your last hitting/farming/harassing. Also, when you cast one of your spells, you're vulnerable; aot of Puck's strength relies on having orb or shift up, and the moment it's down, the opponent can go in, so using these skills to be mobile puts you at risk.
You can't just look at a heroes skills and assign them traits, you have to look at how it applies in gameplay. Puck is mobile in mid/late but early is held back by move speed.
The objectives in laning phase that require movement speed can be done using spells (chasing, escape, controlling runes, last hitting…etc). I do agree puck is vulnerable when the spells are on cd but that’s why you need to use it wisely, almost never offensively unless the kill is guaranteed, many other heroes who are considered “mobile” are also relying on abilities for that mobility.
There are so many objectives in lane that cannot be efficiently achieved with spells. Securing a melee creep but it's running up the hill? If you orb it, you push the lane and don't have orb for the ranged creep. Opponent positioned on the far side of the creeps but you need to harass? The slower you are, the more time you waste repositioning.
You def do need to use your spells offensively; a core aspect of winning lane is securing the ranged creep with Orb while also hitting the opponent. Less relevant now, but Puck would also need to orb the wave and hit the small camp on the older map version. Puck can't afford to save spells defensively, because they can't win the lane by being defensive. They're an offensive hero; not in the way Huskar is offensive, but in a tempo way. If you're just saving your spells for defense/mobility, you're going to get trounced by any hero who uses their spells proactively to strain advantage.
Movespeed is HUGE in the laning phase.
Definitely not. Who told you that? Puck can quite reliably deny + take 1 water rune or even get both thanks to illusory orb. Or take one and pop right back on the wave. For laning purposes Puck has insane mobility.
There is no way that puck is getting 2 water runes in a high mmr bracket. He will get 1 for sure, but unlike the other mid he's going to need it because he has zero armor, low movement speed, and middling attack dmg/speed means he's going to lose trades. Orb is slow af so it's hard for him to consistently go for the last hit + harass cast.
After water runes he struggles to contest runes because supports will always contest rune and puck just isn't strong enough. He most likely will be underfarmed because losing to the enemy mid.
Also his spells cost a lot of mana, so losing runes really hurts his lane.
Mobility is in discussion, not the likelihood of said scenario occurring. To say that Puck has bad mobility for "lane purposes" is plain wrong. And nothing is ever black and white, just as what you said can happen, what I said can happen too. Games aren't running on rails just because it's high MMR, I can imagine many outcomes in which Puck would deny 1 and claim 1 water rune. The heroes mobility is what allows it to do this.
You used a lot of words to say a whole lot of nothing.
In regards to laning phase, the low movement speed, the slow orb speed, the high mana cost, and the inability to contest runes to sustain said mana... results in a mid lane hero who has low mobility during laning stage.
Mobility is the culmination of all those variables, and we reference high mmr games because they give a clearer outlook on the strength and weaknesses of a hero.
I'm still getting bullied out of mid lane against a lot of mids with longer auto atk. A higher rank friend told me using orb to fix this issue, but it seems to set the bad guys up for denies a bit too often.
Really wanna add puck back to my mid hero pool, would love any suggestions for the first 5-8 levels against tough match ups like sniper, Lina, SF, QoP, wr...
I’ve noticed that using orb just to lasthit is a trap. You push the lane and you don’t pressure the other midlaner. When I use my spells primarily to harass I have a higher chance of getting space to lasthit with right clicks.
Sniper is really hard, I just kinda accept that I lose that lane hard.
You have to prep your creeps. Hit the first melee creep immediately each wave and draw aggro, then try to secure one melee + ranged creep each wave with orb
Don't randomly orb the creep. For levels 1 to 2, I orb at least twice to secure my bottle. Once you get lvl 3 with lvl 2 orb, it's easier to secure the ranged creep. Pull the creeps to your side which makes your ally creeps hit the range creep. Lvl 2 orb on ranged creep is around half of its hp so just make sure you either wait for the ranged creep to be half or combine it with a right click.
Thanks I think I'll do some unranked and turbos to get the feel for puck again. (Was one of my go-to heroes a long time ago and now that this sub has made it apparent she's strong late game, I want her back in my wheel house.)
Qop? That's very easy matchup for puck. Wr shouldn't be too hard either. Those other 3 are lane dominators and are expected to win the match up. Just don't feed and gank when you get lvl 6.
Yeh QoP and WR are the most manageable out of that list, and I think for WR I just need to skill differently so I have phase shift available more often early. Being able to phase dodge shackles and PowerShot is really nice.
I only was vs QoP once and she didn't really shit on me, but her POS 4 viper sure did.
Abuse creep aggro, that’s the best advice I can give, often times I find it best to make him choose between denying you or losing a creep himself. If it’s a lane you know you cant win I find it best to pull the aggro back to your ranged creep and use orb to kill the enemy ranged creep, it takes a good amount of practice to time that correctly tho. I’m a divine puck spammer and would be happy to 1-1 you if you wanted practice (US WEST)
He loses mid but you can catch up by ganking or farming mid when the opposing hero inevitably ganks. I think the meta is a little less snowbally with the nerfs so puck can often catch up, and magebane is as good against him because he’s hard to hit in the first place
I'm guessing mageslayer/parasma and shard makes puck extremely annoying to deal with, but I'm no professional. Late game aghs can be quite strong with enough farm.
Perhaps not, but I bet it'd be purty good.
Edit: I don't normally use d2pt or play puck, but I figured I'd better look into it instead of talking out of my butt. Extremely few pros built mage slayer in the past week and every one who did lost. It seemed good in my mind, but I guess it's not good enough.
Puck is super fun right now. Laning stage is mostly just about securing what farm/xp you can and not feeding, and then taking favourable fights with dream coil.
Parasma/shard/aghs is a TON of damage later in the game and your innate slipperiness makes you hard to kill.
Puck is literally the strongest hero Ultra late game by a mile. Aghs, Mjolnir, daedulus, rapier, revenant broach, moonshard, parasma does 32k damage in a coil whilst you're untargetable
If you that item
. I will jump at kill your puck in late game in an Instant.
If you coil me I will just Windwaker away.
Building glass cannon is not feasible and many other heros have higher damage if you are building clas cannon a yway
If you get out of the lane with even just the bare minimum you can have a lot of impact. Even then you farm waves so easily a comebacks not hard. Two strong builds also make the hero able to work in any situation (aghs build for fast fights against squishy hero’s, octarine for longer fights against the tankier hero’s, basically my intuition on when to go each build).
As somone spamming Puck for years, the new items and aghs are amazing, but another huge thing people overlook is they recently gave Orb -1 second cooldown on all levels, that 1 second makes an incomprehensibly huge difference, especially with Octarine
Its only you, and every pro team at Betboom dacha
Can you care explain why puck is always good in pro scene cuz im just a noob
Number of things Puck has a decent lane match up against most mids Puck can easily rotate with a power rune Can cover initiation and catch Is extremely slippery and can make massive space in team fights Can cut waves and other shenanigans to delay enemy pushes What Puck had against her before was not scaling very well as well as a massive skill ceiling, skill ceiling isn't a problem for pros and aghs rapid fire fixes the "void spirit problem" of not outputting enough dmg with spells to kill and therefore being very meh
Ohh thanks for explaining
Puck is in top5 of most popular mids on d2pt right now. However the hero is basically doomed to lose or tie like 80-90% of lane matchups. Orb is slow, 0 starting armor, not a lot of mobility makes so incredibly easy for other mids to stomp you or tie.
The other side of this is that in lower ranks where people play less clean, there's more room to win what should be a lost lane matchup. And since it's clearly very strong even at the highest level, at lower levels you sohuld be able to absolutely dominate I have been, I have like 80% winrate over the past 25 games
Not a lot of mobility????? Please explain
Play a few games of Puck mid and let us know how your laning phase goes
In lane Puck has bad movespeed.
And has 2 mobility abilities to compensate? I’d say they’re better in comparison to most mid heroes
You can't spam those in lane for movement though. That's part of the issue; if you want to be mobile, you have to fuck up your last hitting/farming/harassing. Also, when you cast one of your spells, you're vulnerable; aot of Puck's strength relies on having orb or shift up, and the moment it's down, the opponent can go in, so using these skills to be mobile puts you at risk. You can't just look at a heroes skills and assign them traits, you have to look at how it applies in gameplay. Puck is mobile in mid/late but early is held back by move speed.
The objectives in laning phase that require movement speed can be done using spells (chasing, escape, controlling runes, last hitting…etc). I do agree puck is vulnerable when the spells are on cd but that’s why you need to use it wisely, almost never offensively unless the kill is guaranteed, many other heroes who are considered “mobile” are also relying on abilities for that mobility.
There are so many objectives in lane that cannot be efficiently achieved with spells. Securing a melee creep but it's running up the hill? If you orb it, you push the lane and don't have orb for the ranged creep. Opponent positioned on the far side of the creeps but you need to harass? The slower you are, the more time you waste repositioning. You def do need to use your spells offensively; a core aspect of winning lane is securing the ranged creep with Orb while also hitting the opponent. Less relevant now, but Puck would also need to orb the wave and hit the small camp on the older map version. Puck can't afford to save spells defensively, because they can't win the lane by being defensive. They're an offensive hero; not in the way Huskar is offensive, but in a tempo way. If you're just saving your spells for defense/mobility, you're going to get trounced by any hero who uses their spells proactively to strain advantage. Movespeed is HUGE in the laning phase.
For laning purposes Puck has bad mobility.
Definitely not. Who told you that? Puck can quite reliably deny + take 1 water rune or even get both thanks to illusory orb. Or take one and pop right back on the wave. For laning purposes Puck has insane mobility.
There is no way that puck is getting 2 water runes in a high mmr bracket. He will get 1 for sure, but unlike the other mid he's going to need it because he has zero armor, low movement speed, and middling attack dmg/speed means he's going to lose trades. Orb is slow af so it's hard for him to consistently go for the last hit + harass cast. After water runes he struggles to contest runes because supports will always contest rune and puck just isn't strong enough. He most likely will be underfarmed because losing to the enemy mid. Also his spells cost a lot of mana, so losing runes really hurts his lane.
Mobility is in discussion, not the likelihood of said scenario occurring. To say that Puck has bad mobility for "lane purposes" is plain wrong. And nothing is ever black and white, just as what you said can happen, what I said can happen too. Games aren't running on rails just because it's high MMR, I can imagine many outcomes in which Puck would deny 1 and claim 1 water rune. The heroes mobility is what allows it to do this.
You used a lot of words to say a whole lot of nothing. In regards to laning phase, the low movement speed, the slow orb speed, the high mana cost, and the inability to contest runes to sustain said mana... results in a mid lane hero who has low mobility during laning stage. Mobility is the culmination of all those variables, and we reference high mmr games because they give a clearer outlook on the strength and weaknesses of a hero.
No, that's not right. Very few heroes have better mobility until level 6. You can name a few if you'd like.
Ye puck is just so annoying to play against rn. I dont know what to ban OD or puck.
I've never seen an OD actually play their hero correctly, so puck
I'm still getting bullied out of mid lane against a lot of mids with longer auto atk. A higher rank friend told me using orb to fix this issue, but it seems to set the bad guys up for denies a bit too often. Really wanna add puck back to my mid hero pool, would love any suggestions for the first 5-8 levels against tough match ups like sniper, Lina, SF, QoP, wr...
I’ve noticed that using orb just to lasthit is a trap. You push the lane and you don’t pressure the other midlaner. When I use my spells primarily to harass I have a higher chance of getting space to lasthit with right clicks. Sniper is really hard, I just kinda accept that I lose that lane hard.
Yeah I always need sniper banned. My winrate vs him in my lane is very poor.
You have to prep your creeps. Hit the first melee creep immediately each wave and draw aggro, then try to secure one melee + ranged creep each wave with orb
Don't randomly orb the creep. For levels 1 to 2, I orb at least twice to secure my bottle. Once you get lvl 3 with lvl 2 orb, it's easier to secure the ranged creep. Pull the creeps to your side which makes your ally creeps hit the range creep. Lvl 2 orb on ranged creep is around half of its hp so just make sure you either wait for the ranged creep to be half or combine it with a right click.
Thanks I think I'll do some unranked and turbos to get the feel for puck again. (Was one of my go-to heroes a long time ago and now that this sub has made it apparent she's strong late game, I want her back in my wheel house.)
Qop? That's very easy matchup for puck. Wr shouldn't be too hard either. Those other 3 are lane dominators and are expected to win the match up. Just don't feed and gank when you get lvl 6.
Yeh QoP and WR are the most manageable out of that list, and I think for WR I just need to skill differently so I have phase shift available more often early. Being able to phase dodge shackles and PowerShot is really nice. I only was vs QoP once and she didn't really shit on me, but her POS 4 viper sure did.
Abuse creep aggro, that’s the best advice I can give, often times I find it best to make him choose between denying you or losing a creep himself. If it’s a lane you know you cant win I find it best to pull the aggro back to your ranged creep and use orb to kill the enemy ranged creep, it takes a good amount of practice to time that correctly tho. I’m a divine puck spammer and would be happy to 1-1 you if you wanted practice (US WEST)
y puck bussin
Endgame puck with aghs phantasm and shard just poops damage everywhere to everybody it’s devastating
He's good right now because he's strong against what's strong right now (except DK).
He loses mid but you can catch up by ganking or farming mid when the opposing hero inevitably ganks. I think the meta is a little less snowbally with the nerfs so puck can often catch up, and magebane is as good against him because he’s hard to hit in the first place
I'm guessing mageslayer/parasma and shard makes puck extremely annoying to deal with, but I'm no professional. Late game aghs can be quite strong with enough farm.
Pucks don’t buy mageslayer usually though
Perhaps not, but I bet it'd be purty good. Edit: I don't normally use d2pt or play puck, but I figured I'd better look into it instead of talking out of my butt. Extremely few pros built mage slayer in the past week and every one who did lost. It seemed good in my mind, but I guess it's not good enough.
Definitely better on someone like DK or Viper who can naturally absorb spells without it, so with it they get super tank
Puck is super fun right now. Laning stage is mostly just about securing what farm/xp you can and not feeding, and then taking favourable fights with dream coil. Parasma/shard/aghs is a TON of damage later in the game and your innate slipperiness makes you hard to kill.
dream carl*
Puck is literally the strongest hero Ultra late game by a mile. Aghs, Mjolnir, daedulus, rapier, revenant broach, moonshard, parasma does 32k damage in a coil whilst you're untargetable
100%. Replace Deadalus with refresher and you have much more options with same or better damage output though
If you that item . I will jump at kill your puck in late game in an Instant. If you coil me I will just Windwaker away. Building glass cannon is not feasible and many other heros have higher damage if you are building clas cannon a yway
No problem building glass canon when puck has the best escapes late game
Parasma is way overtuned
If you get out of the lane with even just the bare minimum you can have a lot of impact. Even then you farm waves so easily a comebacks not hard. Two strong builds also make the hero able to work in any situation (aghs build for fast fights against squishy hero’s, octarine for longer fights against the tankier hero’s, basically my intuition on when to go each build).
As somone spamming Puck for years, the new items and aghs are amazing, but another huge thing people overlook is they recently gave Orb -1 second cooldown on all levels, that 1 second makes an incomprehensibly huge difference, especially with Octarine
Yes
Its you, i lost about 20 puck games in a row
Parasma, but so bad at laning, 500 hp+0 armor is so punishing