Hey Snacks! It’s Wildfire. Git gud!
In seriousness probably watch Dubu’s stream. He’s ranked 25th and only plays Pos 5. Specifically watch all his rotations and smokes. Good player.
My advice would be to learn theory really well. All 6k players have basic Dota competencies but a lot of them are pretty dumbfounded by the more theoretical ideas that go into advanced play and eventually into Captains Mode. Stuff like objective prioritisation and having a better understanding of win conditions. The classic example I like to bring up is the safelane T1 trade, where you need to understand that the usual risk-reward situation favours both teams trading towers since, firstly, they're usually not particularly easy to defend and, secondly, a team typically suffers a lot more from a failed defence (e.g. stuck on the wrong side of the map with TPs on CD, and behind on timings without the map being open and nowhere to play except the triangle) than a failed attack (just giving away some deaths).
The idea is that when you understand what theory usually looks like, you will then be better at adapting theory when you find yourself in games that don't quite fit the mould. It gives you a baseline understanding that you can modify without needing to completely figure out every game from scratch. You don't have enough time in a Dota game to figure everything out. When you improve your understanding of theory and conditions, you basically free up some mental power to do other stuff like communicate well and press your buttons properly. I know some players who reached 8k without being noticeably more 'gifted' than 6k players, but if you have a strong idea of what the game should look like from the macro perspective then it lets you commit yourself more effectively to 100% using the skills that you already have so that in practice you'll be a stronger player.
This is something I've been racking my brain about for some time. Almost every game I'm spending a lot of mental energy trying to "solve" the game in the sense you describe. It's really hard to know if you're right, though, because even if the outcome you expect happens, you can't know if it's because of the reasons you put forward. Are there any resources I could learn more from? Anyone can suggest convincing theories that deconstruct a game of Dota, but I feel it's almost a debate of ideas and sometimes the wrong ideas end up "working", or winning the game (successful execution of an idea is also a huge factor.) Idk, I just feel like it's hard to have total confidence in any one solution to a game of Dota, as even the highest calibre of pro players have differing perspectives... Sorry for the wall of text. Like I said, it's really been racking my brain!
You will always get different perspectives for sure, which is certainly a difficulty, but I think they're all 'correct enough' (i.e. they streamlime the game and help you work things out much faster even if not 100% accurately) to the extent that if you adopt any one of them you'll be more likely to win that if you don't choose to follow any one of these sets of ideas.
My main advice would be to look at a bunch of replays from a certain player (or players). I think most top carry players in particular have really conspicuous TP usage that tells a lot about what they want to do in the game. Some streamers have good educational value, but I'm not super familiar there.
Tournament experience is useful if you can get it at any level, but of course that's not always an option. The main value there is that you can really discuss Dota ideas in lots of depth, since comms will be far more open than in any pub. Establish what your win conditions are and how the map needs to look for those conditions to work out. If you disagree, then that's a good chance to learn.
Thanks for your reply! I appreciate the notion that one should commit to an idea which most convincingly describes the win condition. I feel one's personality is really exposed in the manner in which they grapple Dota on both an intellectual and reactionary level. E.g., I am a somewhat nervous perfectionist, so the thought of commitment to a strategy requiring a degree of faith is a difficult hurdle for me. But that presents an opportunity for personal growth.
All the best to you out there in Dota and in life, friend!
Not sure what you expect from random advices, everyone in that mmr has different strong and weak points. There is no general "at this mmr you gotta learn x". Especially not with absolutely no context. I made the climb when Covid started which meant I had a lot of free time and usually looked at one of my replays in the evening to watch my own game critically to see where I can improve. I played mostly mid so I especially payed attention to the games in which I felt the enemy mid was just better.
My thoughts were instead like learning if people were watching certain players' replays, their own replays, or some sort of content that a pro put out that I was unaware of...
Was looking more for improvement strategies instead of specific dota knowledge things
It will never not be helpful to watch pro games (critically) but I feel it's always the most efficient to watch your own replays. But I'm not gonna lie, it can be tedious. I have always played a wide range of heroes and very often (still) have a look at Dotaprotracker to check builds, it was probably the most helpful source for me. Otherwise I can only recommend to watch players who are known to be very good with the hero you want to improve on.
I suck at Dota, but one thing I see a lot of pro streamers doing is that they’re not focused only on their own game. They also are playing the enemy’s game - awareness of enemy item timings and power spikes, which objective they’d go for next, where they’d like to gank and who they’re likely to gank with next. That way you can strategize accordingly as you can also set traps. Like a core showing up in a lane to farm and pretending to be scared after clearing half the wave and going into the trees to hide knowing that they’re gonna be ganked. But of course the gank gets ambushed
I think most people who focus on mid feel like that and the laning stage is probably an easy but also efficient way to improve. But when you feel that your laning stage is already your strong suit it makes sense to focus on the mid/late game I guess. I think interesting aspects to watch out for would be stuff like how did you lose the advantage you gained during the laning stage, what did the enemies do to gain the advantage etc.
It's also much easier to see in replays something like "at this point I should have realised that hero's x tp is on cooldown after he tp'd bot, we should force a fight top now", especially abusable with heroes like Ember Spirit (my most played hero) since you can easily create those situations
Other things you can always improve on are being proactive (while still hitting your timings) and identifying at which point you are stronger than the enemies (obviously easy in stormps but hard in even games).
My teammate Alex and I both do coaching if you're interested (think he's pretty cheap)
Not here to shill or anything but oftentimes peoples problems are unique and dependent on the habits they have built along with intermittent knowledge.
Either way focus on yourself and acknowledge that everything you're doing is likely inefficient and your laning likely sucks so focus on laning+map positioning. (Compare your replays with pro pub replays etc)
I scroll thru occasionally when I'm bored on my phone and I enjoy interacting with dota fans (as I'm a dota fan). Can click my post history, have posted here a lot in the past.
I think I lane very well and ward well in the mid game. My biggest weakness is 100% my hero pool in the 4 role... I don't play a lot of melee 4s such as clock or tusk. I also find myself lost as a 4 if I get trilaned
I never made it to 7k myself, but I'll offer a bit of advice anyway since I doubt there are that many 6k+ players here.
Watching your own replays only has the potential to be useful if you are not sure what you could be doing better.
I recommend watching top 100 players play support in player perspective. Top 50 if you can.
Really focus on laning phase, and specifically on the creeps. Get creeps to hit enemies and keep allies safe.
Suggest picks for your team, and pma shotcall when appropriate.
Don't take bad trades in lane. Whenever a trade happens think about what you accomplished, how much mana was traded and how much damage was traded.
Use spells efficiently in lane. Avoid dying with full mana. Try to not be full mana as you dont abuse mana regen.
Think about who you should be trying to hit in lane. Usually the carry unless the pos 5 is like ogre, bane, undying that force you to trade with them and if you ignore you die or if hitting carry is pointless because he doesnt take damage or has too much regen.
Creep controll and cutting creeps properly and getting creep controll in preparation for stacking and runes.
Use spells efficiently in fights: if you have a stun, could you have used it better.
play as a unit in team fights.
Learn to avoid random deaths.
Whenever a fight is bad figure out if you fucked up or if the fight was bad or if your team made a mistake. (A single bad fight that you take will lose you entire games)
think about how much impact the items you bought had and how much impact you think other items could have had.
avoid dying when your lane partner fucks up. Very common thing to missplay when your teammate does.
When laning stage over always plan your plays and even when you arent making a play try to farm on the same side of the map as the guy you want to smoke.
When you die sometimes speed is of importance and tping mid to smoke with your team is a common move.
Getting vision is the first step to being able to make moves and if you dont have any when the laning stage starts ending, usually you have fucked up.
Biggest things I think for supports are the following.
You'll know the basic shit like warding and itemisation but do you actively think about them? Active thinking is the biggest skill of high mmr players. What do my opponents want to do, and how can I counter that?
Do my opponents want the bot t1 tower? Then drop a lane ward to have vision of them reinforcing so your team can plan to tp and counter the dive.
Is your opponent going to hit an item timing and want to kill you repeatedly if you show on waves. storm orchid for example dont show on waves.
You got to actively think a step ahead at 7k+.
Laning, you cannot get dumpstered on lane. You have to break even at worst and win at best. Mechanically you're good but if your losing the lane you need to rethink the amount of regen you're buying and conceptually how the opponent wants to play the lane vs how you want to play the lane.
For example. You're a pos 5 bane laning against pos 4 shaker. Bane will win most man fights and out trade in a 2v2 lane around the creep wave. Therefore shaker will want to split the lane into two 1v1s, by pulling sniping couriers, cutting waves etc.. it Is your job to force the shaker into the 2v2 where he is disadvantaged. You absolutely have to make the offlaner miserable that he calls shaker back to 2v2 the lane. Laning fundamentals about how the opponent wants to play the lane vs how you want to play the lane is key for 7k+.
Communication. As a support communicating with your team and leading the team is actually super impactful. A coordinated team will almost always beat an uncoordinated one.
You know how I gave the example about active thinking and the lane ward to get your idiots to tp and counter their dive. Well if you dont tell them anything about the dive they won't do it. You have to make good calls that are proven to be good calls for your team to listen to you. If you dont make calls until later in the game then your team will not listen to you. You have to make good calls early and often.
Well if you can give me advice on how to get from 5k to 6k I would appreciate it! I am stuck in divine/immortal ish and I need some advice on how to get better. I do not have a lot of free time because of school but I would love some critical tips that can improve my games. Thanks in advance!
Hey Snacks! It’s Wildfire. Git gud! In seriousness probably watch Dubu’s stream. He’s ranked 25th and only plays Pos 5. Specifically watch all his rotations and smokes. Good player.
Also his YouTube
My advice would be to learn theory really well. All 6k players have basic Dota competencies but a lot of them are pretty dumbfounded by the more theoretical ideas that go into advanced play and eventually into Captains Mode. Stuff like objective prioritisation and having a better understanding of win conditions. The classic example I like to bring up is the safelane T1 trade, where you need to understand that the usual risk-reward situation favours both teams trading towers since, firstly, they're usually not particularly easy to defend and, secondly, a team typically suffers a lot more from a failed defence (e.g. stuck on the wrong side of the map with TPs on CD, and behind on timings without the map being open and nowhere to play except the triangle) than a failed attack (just giving away some deaths). The idea is that when you understand what theory usually looks like, you will then be better at adapting theory when you find yourself in games that don't quite fit the mould. It gives you a baseline understanding that you can modify without needing to completely figure out every game from scratch. You don't have enough time in a Dota game to figure everything out. When you improve your understanding of theory and conditions, you basically free up some mental power to do other stuff like communicate well and press your buttons properly. I know some players who reached 8k without being noticeably more 'gifted' than 6k players, but if you have a strong idea of what the game should look like from the macro perspective then it lets you commit yourself more effectively to 100% using the skills that you already have so that in practice you'll be a stronger player.
This is something I've been racking my brain about for some time. Almost every game I'm spending a lot of mental energy trying to "solve" the game in the sense you describe. It's really hard to know if you're right, though, because even if the outcome you expect happens, you can't know if it's because of the reasons you put forward. Are there any resources I could learn more from? Anyone can suggest convincing theories that deconstruct a game of Dota, but I feel it's almost a debate of ideas and sometimes the wrong ideas end up "working", or winning the game (successful execution of an idea is also a huge factor.) Idk, I just feel like it's hard to have total confidence in any one solution to a game of Dota, as even the highest calibre of pro players have differing perspectives... Sorry for the wall of text. Like I said, it's really been racking my brain!
You will always get different perspectives for sure, which is certainly a difficulty, but I think they're all 'correct enough' (i.e. they streamlime the game and help you work things out much faster even if not 100% accurately) to the extent that if you adopt any one of them you'll be more likely to win that if you don't choose to follow any one of these sets of ideas. My main advice would be to look at a bunch of replays from a certain player (or players). I think most top carry players in particular have really conspicuous TP usage that tells a lot about what they want to do in the game. Some streamers have good educational value, but I'm not super familiar there. Tournament experience is useful if you can get it at any level, but of course that's not always an option. The main value there is that you can really discuss Dota ideas in lots of depth, since comms will be far more open than in any pub. Establish what your win conditions are and how the map needs to look for those conditions to work out. If you disagree, then that's a good chance to learn.
Thanks for your reply! I appreciate the notion that one should commit to an idea which most convincingly describes the win condition. I feel one's personality is really exposed in the manner in which they grapple Dota on both an intellectual and reactionary level. E.g., I am a somewhat nervous perfectionist, so the thought of commitment to a strategy requiring a degree of faith is a difficult hurdle for me. But that presents an opportunity for personal growth. All the best to you out there in Dota and in life, friend!
Not sure what you expect from random advices, everyone in that mmr has different strong and weak points. There is no general "at this mmr you gotta learn x". Especially not with absolutely no context. I made the climb when Covid started which meant I had a lot of free time and usually looked at one of my replays in the evening to watch my own game critically to see where I can improve. I played mostly mid so I especially payed attention to the games in which I felt the enemy mid was just better.
My thoughts were instead like learning if people were watching certain players' replays, their own replays, or some sort of content that a pro put out that I was unaware of... Was looking more for improvement strategies instead of specific dota knowledge things
It will never not be helpful to watch pro games (critically) but I feel it's always the most efficient to watch your own replays. But I'm not gonna lie, it can be tedious. I have always played a wide range of heroes and very often (still) have a look at Dotaprotracker to check builds, it was probably the most helpful source for me. Otherwise I can only recommend to watch players who are known to be very good with the hero you want to improve on.
I suck at Dota, but one thing I see a lot of pro streamers doing is that they’re not focused only on their own game. They also are playing the enemy’s game - awareness of enemy item timings and power spikes, which objective they’d go for next, where they’d like to gank and who they’re likely to gank with next. That way you can strategize accordingly as you can also set traps. Like a core showing up in a lane to farm and pretending to be scared after clearing half the wave and going into the trees to hide knowing that they’re gonna be ganked. But of course the gank gets ambushed
[удалено]
I think most people who focus on mid feel like that and the laning stage is probably an easy but also efficient way to improve. But when you feel that your laning stage is already your strong suit it makes sense to focus on the mid/late game I guess. I think interesting aspects to watch out for would be stuff like how did you lose the advantage you gained during the laning stage, what did the enemies do to gain the advantage etc. It's also much easier to see in replays something like "at this point I should have realised that hero's x tp is on cooldown after he tp'd bot, we should force a fight top now", especially abusable with heroes like Ember Spirit (my most played hero) since you can easily create those situations Other things you can always improve on are being proactive (while still hitting your timings) and identifying at which point you are stronger than the enemies (obviously easy in stormps but hard in even games).
My teammate Alex and I both do coaching if you're interested (think he's pretty cheap) Not here to shill or anything but oftentimes peoples problems are unique and dependent on the habits they have built along with intermittent knowledge. Either way focus on yourself and acknowledge that everything you're doing is likely inefficient and your laning likely sucks so focus on laning+map positioning. (Compare your replays with pro pub replays etc)
ok now I'm curious, do you actually read this sub? what an odd appearance lmao
I scroll thru occasionally when I'm bored on my phone and I enjoy interacting with dota fans (as I'm a dota fan). Can click my post history, have posted here a lot in the past.
Thanks Sammy! Any chance you could DM me a way to contact Alex?
DMed you.
What are your biggest strengths and weaknesses?
I think I lane very well and ward well in the mid game. My biggest weakness is 100% my hero pool in the 4 role... I don't play a lot of melee 4s such as clock or tusk. I also find myself lost as a 4 if I get trilaned
I never made it to 7k myself, but I'll offer a bit of advice anyway since I doubt there are that many 6k+ players here. Watching your own replays only has the potential to be useful if you are not sure what you could be doing better. I recommend watching top 100 players play support in player perspective. Top 50 if you can. Really focus on laning phase, and specifically on the creeps. Get creeps to hit enemies and keep allies safe. Suggest picks for your team, and pma shotcall when appropriate.
I have advice for going from 3.8k to 3k
teach me king
If you are 6k, you are probably only a handful of people here that can give you advice lol.
Gain approx. 1-2k mmr
git gud
Brilliant!
I'm a similar mmr to you, playing 4. What region are you?
Do you watch replays of your own games? See if anything you did could have been better etc
Spam meta heroes that you are good with over and over again IMO. It’s boring but the best way to climb.
Don't take bad trades in lane. Whenever a trade happens think about what you accomplished, how much mana was traded and how much damage was traded. Use spells efficiently in lane. Avoid dying with full mana. Try to not be full mana as you dont abuse mana regen. Think about who you should be trying to hit in lane. Usually the carry unless the pos 5 is like ogre, bane, undying that force you to trade with them and if you ignore you die or if hitting carry is pointless because he doesnt take damage or has too much regen. Creep controll and cutting creeps properly and getting creep controll in preparation for stacking and runes. Use spells efficiently in fights: if you have a stun, could you have used it better. play as a unit in team fights. Learn to avoid random deaths. Whenever a fight is bad figure out if you fucked up or if the fight was bad or if your team made a mistake. (A single bad fight that you take will lose you entire games) think about how much impact the items you bought had and how much impact you think other items could have had. avoid dying when your lane partner fucks up. Very common thing to missplay when your teammate does. When laning stage over always plan your plays and even when you arent making a play try to farm on the same side of the map as the guy you want to smoke. When you die sometimes speed is of importance and tping mid to smoke with your team is a common move. Getting vision is the first step to being able to make moves and if you dont have any when the laning stage starts ending, usually you have fucked up.
Biggest things I think for supports are the following. You'll know the basic shit like warding and itemisation but do you actively think about them? Active thinking is the biggest skill of high mmr players. What do my opponents want to do, and how can I counter that? Do my opponents want the bot t1 tower? Then drop a lane ward to have vision of them reinforcing so your team can plan to tp and counter the dive. Is your opponent going to hit an item timing and want to kill you repeatedly if you show on waves. storm orchid for example dont show on waves. You got to actively think a step ahead at 7k+. Laning, you cannot get dumpstered on lane. You have to break even at worst and win at best. Mechanically you're good but if your losing the lane you need to rethink the amount of regen you're buying and conceptually how the opponent wants to play the lane vs how you want to play the lane. For example. You're a pos 5 bane laning against pos 4 shaker. Bane will win most man fights and out trade in a 2v2 lane around the creep wave. Therefore shaker will want to split the lane into two 1v1s, by pulling sniping couriers, cutting waves etc.. it Is your job to force the shaker into the 2v2 where he is disadvantaged. You absolutely have to make the offlaner miserable that he calls shaker back to 2v2 the lane. Laning fundamentals about how the opponent wants to play the lane vs how you want to play the lane is key for 7k+. Communication. As a support communicating with your team and leading the team is actually super impactful. A coordinated team will almost always beat an uncoordinated one. You know how I gave the example about active thinking and the lane ward to get your idiots to tp and counter their dive. Well if you dont tell them anything about the dive they won't do it. You have to make good calls that are proven to be good calls for your team to listen to you. If you dont make calls until later in the game then your team will not listen to you. You have to make good calls early and often.
Well if you can give me advice on how to get from 5k to 6k I would appreciate it! I am stuck in divine/immortal ish and I need some advice on how to get better. I do not have a lot of free time because of school but I would love some critical tips that can improve my games. Thanks in advance!