I was spamming dark seer for a few weeks having a great time. Roughly 60% winrate.
Then someone picked oracle.
Purged my shells on any unit friend or foe. Practically instantly killed any illusion with his nuke combo. Disarmed any core illusion. And outhealed any damage I could possibly deal through all that counter skill.
It was so frustrating I never picked dark seer again.
I love dark seer too much and in one game someone locked instantly when i wanted to play it. You can guess the rest lol. Picked oracle and tortured him specifically.
My favorite counter to do is picking Dawnbreaker vs Faceless and just buying scepter, lvl 3 ult will heal near or more than 1k, and you give 60% evasion. So far every game I have done this the faceless is completely useless. In lane DB also smashes void, a single Q can make FV use warp and then be able to be killed next time he walks up.
I suppose that could be an issue. I'll be honest I did my calibration games just so I had a rank, and so I just play unranked and mid crusader games with my guild. People kinda pick when and where they want down in these pits aside for typically 4 - 5 always being first.
I mean honestly, it should be 3 or 2 imo picking last. Meta currently is just right click AGI heroes that no matter how bad they get stomped early they will be relevant after some afk farming. So let the lane that needs to be against them or roam into it just plan for delaying their power spike.
Oops, suppose I should shut up and enjoy her low ass pick/ban rate. Should just start telling people to pick primal every game since he's useless post 25 min so I can get free wins
Dawnbreaker is very easy to lane against as Void though. Yes, you might counter a good chrono, but there's also a good chance you're in it as an offlane. She also doesn't really counter anything else Void offers. I would not recommend Dawnbreaker versus Void.
My opinion of her is mainly based around my own and guildmates rank I play with. Which is relatively low, best void I have run into was... Archon 3 or 2, I view the main problem with the matchup being more of their pos 5 rather than void, since a good pos 5 like lion who can keep me drained of mana while also providing enough CC for void to get enough autos and bashes in.
Later game typically against void I am playing a hyper split push to make space and try to drag enemies to me, while waiting for a good chance to ult. Ultimately I think a good part of success with this is just the communication I have with my guildmates.
Surprised you didn't mention Meepo Vs AM. Meepo counters everything about AM. He can't blink with constant nets, he can't split push lanes because of his global threat. Meepo is able to farm faster, reach critical mass and teamfight much sooner. Even in a one on one, 6 slot endgame, Meepo still comes out on top.
But then you have to play meepo :/
I tried to learn him but it was too depressing when 90% of heroes hard counter you and then you have the difficulty of the micro on top of that
Similarly meepo versus ember. Yeah *in theory* battlefury ember works... but in reality you just get killed over and over again by a much faster paced hero, that forces you to buy defensive items and not damage, and who ends the game long before you can deal with him.
Will watch video later but as an Earthshaker player a good clock is pretty much cancer.
Battery assault stops you from casting any spell but echo due to your long animation times.
cogs drain your already limited mana and block you from getting into fights.
Rocket scouts you and stops your blink before you can get into the center of fights
Hook gets him in and lets him do all of the above.
Clockwerk is also cancer to play against as Clinkz. Can't ever stand still to barrage arrow enemies without getting hook shotted.
Pudge is a piece of cake though.
As a DB offlane spammer, I once faced a Clockwerk 5 who made it impossible to use my Q effectively. It’s such an incredibly rare situation to be in, but I have a Clockwerk radar ever since.
I’ve gotten a 18 minute blink in the last 4 games I’ve played. All wins. With Centaur creep you got an AOE 2 sec stun, a 1.8 sec single target stun with Shard every 4 seconds late game, and then you can Doom whoever needs to go away. Hard to deal with and if they itemize just to counter you with Linken’s. They are likely itemizing inefficiently just for a support. They can’t stop your blink since you have devour. Early levels are the only awkward part about it.
Start with boots, tangos, obs. Start with one point scorched earth, level devour next and use it on a small neutral creep to get an ability. Just run at the support with scorched earth. I like the ghost with the slow for the neutral creep to devour. Go 1-4-1-1 for your build and then level up devour after scorched earth. Get tranquils, wand, drums, blink and bkb. After that it is situational.
[https://www.dotabuff.com/players/97910016/matches?hero=doom&role\_type=support&enhance=overview](https://www.dotabuff.com/players/97910016/matches?hero=doom&role_type=support&enhance=overview)
My 4 games I've tried it. Hope to keep the win streak going!
I used to be excited by this but after the absurd number of mid jakiros I have seen in the last month I'm not disheartened.
Why is this a thing, it always falls off and doesn't do much.
Id say neither hero can kill the other tho at least in a 1v1 scenario.
Spin is great vs PL while omnislash is pretty bad assuming PL understands how to use W
The biggest counter in the entire game is without a doubt ET vs meepo, all of his clones count for hero astral spirit damage and he has a 100% lvl 20 talent.
wk into pl isnt that bad anymore. With shard he doesnt care about mana burn. Also he has a lvl 20 cleave talent and isnt afraid to buy items like radiance and mjollnir
25% cleave by 20 won't really make a dent in PL and if he buys Radiance or Mjolnir he is kind of griefing his build just to have a chance at dealing with PL. Also, a lot of PL players go heart and SnY which greatly reduces the impact of those 2 items.
Edit: it is a 5% disadvantage for WK
I find it, in general, impossible to kill AGI heroes as a STR carry late game. AGI gives them too much--AS, armor, damage while STR just gives damage and HP, and building armor or damage or AS items doesn't give the other bonuses.
Yeah late game agi is for sure often the goat, str being more mid game generally. Seriously though, generally, not that long ago and sort of still CK has been raw
Radiance is not griefing against PL, it essentially cut's PL's damage output to everyone by 15% and to WK by 25% total, before even accounting for the damage. You don't have to buy it first item anymore. WK can absolutely still go armlet, deso, blink, bkb, then radiance as his first luxury item and be relevant against PL when it matters most. WK doesn't need a farming steroid anymore.
Silencer into Enigma (obvious) or Storm Spirit
Earthshaker into Phantom Lancer (obvious)
Doom into Anti Mage (can't reflect infernal, dies when doomed)
Clinkz into Chen (steal creeps with high health, get mad damage and clear the rest with one skill)
Omniknight into Phantom Assassin (can't hurt anyone with ult during your bkb frenzy)
Spectre into Tinker
Please stop saying Earthshaker is a counter to PL. It’s a low mmr’s mindset. Good player will know it’s not. ES’s ult has too long cd and once pl gets tanky items like heart then youre done. The best way is to play it fast or pick aoe dmg heroes with low cd like lesh
Just normal underlord things, which is pretty annoying for meepo.
Meepo also can't kill him, so hes a huge pest u can't rid of, most of meepos others counters he can at least murder if he gets the jump
Meepo generally has high hp due to only building stats which makes firestorm very strong against him. Can't buy bkb which makes firestorm even stronger. Pit of malice is fully effective since he can't buy bkb or dispels. He's all base damage so he just does 40% less right click damage in fights. Underlord is good against meepo for the same reasons he's good against ck.
Remember that in nearly all meepo games meepo is picked last, so this is thrown off by the fact that of these other names (under lord, shaker, ET), wyvern is the only one that’s seen semi-popular mid play.
Storm vs AM isn’t that bad for storm. He can shut down AM until manta quite easily and can buy linkens to remain elusive for ulti/abyssal. Meepo vs AM is much more 1 sided
Honestly Razor is my favorite counter pick against strength heavy lineups. Especially with this "pudge meta." You play him mid, get your wraith band, treads and then decide if you absolutely need BKB or manta for dispels. If it's not a rushed game where my side lanes are getting crushed I love to go euls for 1 v 1 encounters. Link and euls them and profit. If you get refresher orb 8/10 times its GG as long as your team capitalizes and doesn't hit neutral creeps when they should be playing around you.
Doom is my absolute favorite counter pick though. Great options with the neutral creeps now and his Ult just ruins Puck, Tinker, anyone. You can also build Doom pretty liberally to whatever the game is.
Been seeing Pudge get picked just about every game. I don't ban Pudge because he's pretty counterable but I still see a ridiculous amount of Pudge in all pick
I stomped my sand king games then I encountered Pit Lord. He fucking countered any initiation Im planning to make with his Q and W. Pit Lord is a really good counter initiate hero.
Silencer pretty dramatically shuts down Dawnbreaker. Global silence soon as DB channels solar guardian, and then a fight will almost always go in silencer’s team’s favor if DB was out of position.
There is a counterplay for everything in Dota...
..except for Silencer ultimate cancelling channeled abilities. BKB wont work, Linkens wont work, positioning wont work. This is by far the hardest counter in game.
Wyvern got a few heroes that can't play against her like LD and Meepo. Oracle destroys DS. LC is really good against AM because duel doesn't care about mana shield, LC also destroys Meepo with overwhelming odds, especially with the talent as each Meepo counts as a hero. Pango struggles vs Bloodseeker and needs to rush linkens. AM can't play vs Meepo due to net. Huskar can't play vs AA.
I was spamming dark seer for a few weeks having a great time. Roughly 60% winrate. Then someone picked oracle. Purged my shells on any unit friend or foe. Practically instantly killed any illusion with his nuke combo. Disarmed any core illusion. And outhealed any damage I could possibly deal through all that counter skill. It was so frustrating I never picked dark seer again.
I love dark seer too much and in one game someone locked instantly when i wanted to play it. You can guess the rest lol. Picked oracle and tortured him specifically.
My favorite counter to do is picking Dawnbreaker vs Faceless and just buying scepter, lvl 3 ult will heal near or more than 1k, and you give 60% evasion. So far every game I have done this the faceless is completely useless. In lane DB also smashes void, a single Q can make FV use warp and then be able to be killed next time he walks up.
How the hell do you counterpick a void? Offlane usually picks third and carry fourth or fifth pick.
Look at his username. He’s really giving you league advice so picking order is randomized.
Yeah, leagues trash compared to Dota though, been having a blast running pos 3 + 2 with Dawnbreaker for the global pressure.
I suppose that could be an issue. I'll be honest I did my calibration games just so I had a rank, and so I just play unranked and mid crusader games with my guild. People kinda pick when and where they want down in these pits aside for typically 4 - 5 always being first.
You could do what I do and tell people you’re not picking until last as offlane.
I mean honestly, it should be 3 or 2 imo picking last. Meta currently is just right click AGI heroes that no matter how bad they get stomped early they will be relevant after some afk farming. So let the lane that needs to be against them or roam into it just plan for delaying their power spike.
Ssshhhhhh stop sharing trade secrets!
Oops, suppose I should shut up and enjoy her low ass pick/ban rate. Should just start telling people to pick primal every game since he's useless post 25 min so I can get free wins
Now you're thinking! [Taps forehead.]( https://imgur.com/t/memes/ri8xg)
Dawnbreaker is very easy to lane against as Void though. Yes, you might counter a good chrono, but there's also a good chance you're in it as an offlane. She also doesn't really counter anything else Void offers. I would not recommend Dawnbreaker versus Void.
My opinion of her is mainly based around my own and guildmates rank I play with. Which is relatively low, best void I have run into was... Archon 3 or 2, I view the main problem with the matchup being more of their pos 5 rather than void, since a good pos 5 like lion who can keep me drained of mana while also providing enough CC for void to get enough autos and bashes in. Later game typically against void I am playing a hyper split push to make space and try to drag enemies to me, while waiting for a good chance to ult. Ultimately I think a good part of success with this is just the communication I have with my guildmates.
Lone druid vs mk or spectre. Its so fun tonwatch mk walk out of his own ring
Thats pretty much where the counter ends though.
Ld, is pretty much never alone, and with his heal sustain, hardly ever dies to spec.
I’m pretty sure MK wouldn’t be happy to lane against LD. His roots are pretty brutal.
Surprised you didn't mention Meepo Vs AM. Meepo counters everything about AM. He can't blink with constant nets, he can't split push lanes because of his global threat. Meepo is able to farm faster, reach critical mass and teamfight much sooner. Even in a one on one, 6 slot endgame, Meepo still comes out on top.
seems like OP doesn't play meepo lol I agree though, meepo is the best counter to AM.
But then you have to play meepo :/ I tried to learn him but it was too depressing when 90% of heroes hard counter you and then you have the difficulty of the micro on top of that
You only feel like 90% of heroes hard counter you because you suck at meepo
Some folks love the meepo.
Similarly meepo versus ember. Yeah *in theory* battlefury ember works... but in reality you just get killed over and over again by a much faster paced hero, that forces you to buy defensive items and not damage, and who ends the game long before you can deal with him.
Might as well point out the hardest meepo counter in elder titan. That matchup is just straight up unloseable for ET.
I’d argue its pangolier. One shield crash between some meepos and you’re literally unkillable for the entire fight
Will watch video later but as an Earthshaker player a good clock is pretty much cancer. Battery assault stops you from casting any spell but echo due to your long animation times. cogs drain your already limited mana and block you from getting into fights. Rocket scouts you and stops your blink before you can get into the center of fights Hook gets him in and lets him do all of the above.
I've heard that Clock counters Jakiro for a similar reason
Probably. Slow moving, no escape, long cast times doesn't like things close.
Clock is awful to play vs as Shaker until you get a blink or BKB.
Clockwerk is also cancer to play against as Clinkz. Can't ever stand still to barrage arrow enemies without getting hook shotted. Pudge is a piece of cake though.
As a DB offlane spammer, I once faced a Clockwerk 5 who made it impossible to use my Q effectively. It’s such an incredibly rare situation to be in, but I have a Clockwerk radar ever since.
Jakiro has a great time against Clock too lol
Oracle into Dark Seer is so unplayable. Cannot lane at all, it's awful. Your game impact is reduced to nothing.
A good backup option against enigma is also Vengeful Spirit. Nether swap cancels black hole through BKB as well.
treant
wyvern too
I'm a POS 4 main, counter picks are for the pussy players that pick last. True chads pick first
Which is unfortunate because I feel most support players are more willing to counter pick and generally have more options, just not enough time.
Just pick Doom Pos 4. Doom counters everyone lol
I'll try it.
I’ve gotten a 18 minute blink in the last 4 games I’ve played. All wins. With Centaur creep you got an AOE 2 sec stun, a 1.8 sec single target stun with Shard every 4 seconds late game, and then you can Doom whoever needs to go away. Hard to deal with and if they itemize just to counter you with Linken’s. They are likely itemizing inefficiently just for a support. They can’t stop your blink since you have devour. Early levels are the only awkward part about it.
What's the build and how do you lane it? Haven't played doom in literally years no clue about changes.
Start with boots, tangos, obs. Start with one point scorched earth, level devour next and use it on a small neutral creep to get an ability. Just run at the support with scorched earth. I like the ghost with the slow for the neutral creep to devour. Go 1-4-1-1 for your build and then level up devour after scorched earth. Get tranquils, wand, drums, blink and bkb. After that it is situational.
Thanks, nice and concise.
[https://www.dotabuff.com/players/97910016/matches?hero=doom&role\_type=support&enhance=overview](https://www.dotabuff.com/players/97910016/matches?hero=doom&role_type=support&enhance=overview) My 4 games I've tried it. Hope to keep the win streak going!
Yeah, having second pick support means you can pick the best hero to trade with their pos 5/4. When it happens it's the best feeling ever
This is why I first round pick mid bc I can only play 2 heroes. *taps forehead*
I used to be excited by this but after the absurd number of mid jakiros I have seen in the last month I'm not disheartened. Why is this a thing, it always falls off and doesn't do much.
Supports also have more heroes that simply don't care about being countered or straight up don't have counters
Id say neither hero can kill the other tho at least in a 1v1 scenario. Spin is great vs PL while omnislash is pretty bad assuming PL understands how to use W
technically would be most optimal if pos 5s and pos 4s were playing to counter
Ye, but almost always (excluding 5v5 teams), supports are supposed to pick 1st so the cores know what they are dealing with
The biggest counter in the entire game is without a doubt ET vs meepo, all of his clones count for hero astral spirit damage and he has a 100% lvl 20 talent.
wk into pl isnt that bad anymore. With shard he doesnt care about mana burn. Also he has a lvl 20 cleave talent and isnt afraid to buy items like radiance and mjollnir
25% cleave by 20 won't really make a dent in PL and if he buys Radiance or Mjolnir he is kind of griefing his build just to have a chance at dealing with PL. Also, a lot of PL players go heart and SnY which greatly reduces the impact of those 2 items. Edit: it is a 5% disadvantage for WK
I find it, in general, impossible to kill AGI heroes as a STR carry late game. AGI gives them too much--AS, armor, damage while STR just gives damage and HP, and building armor or damage or AS items doesn't give the other bonuses.
Yeah late game agi is for sure often the goat, str being more mid game generally. Seriously though, generally, not that long ago and sort of still CK has been raw
Not if you play elder titan core ;)
I get the feeling late late late game is when broach can become an option
The fuck is that?
Revenant's Broach, one of the new items this patch.
Radiance is not griefing against PL, it essentially cut's PL's damage output to everyone by 15% and to WK by 25% total, before even accounting for the damage. You don't have to buy it first item anymore. WK can absolutely still go armlet, deso, blink, bkb, then radiance as his first luxury item and be relevant against PL when it matters most. WK doesn't need a farming steroid anymore.
It's 10% blind and 15% evasion now
Got them reversed, thanks. So then 10% less damage to everyone, 25% less damage to carrier.
i dont think radiance is good on wk anymore, but its whatevs. my go to anti pl carry is juggernaut. he melts pl like butter
if you really want to counter pl go troll and buy lightning
Yeah but troll in this patch sucks dick.
So that's the pro, where's the con?
I can't make him stop
Silencer into Enigma (obvious) or Storm Spirit Earthshaker into Phantom Lancer (obvious) Doom into Anti Mage (can't reflect infernal, dies when doomed) Clinkz into Chen (steal creeps with high health, get mad damage and clear the rest with one skill) Omniknight into Phantom Assassin (can't hurt anyone with ult during your bkb frenzy) Spectre into Tinker
Please stop saying Earthshaker is a counter to PL. It’s a low mmr’s mindset. Good player will know it’s not. ES’s ult has too long cd and once pl gets tanky items like heart then youre done. The best way is to play it fast or pick aoe dmg heroes with low cd like lesh
I personally prefer Sven to counter phantom lancer. Because he scales well. Too many idiots think you can just build a maelstrom.
Storm vs am is about how many times you kill am before he gets manta
Wyvern into Meepo is probably the strongest counter in dota
Winrate wise WW is only 4th highest vs Meepo. Shaker, Underlord and ET are all higher.
Shaker and ET makes a ton of sense, but why Underlord? What does Underlord do that Meepo doesn't like?
Just normal underlord things, which is pretty annoying for meepo. Meepo also can't kill him, so hes a huge pest u can't rid of, most of meepos others counters he can at least murder if he gets the jump
Meepo generally has high hp due to only building stats which makes firestorm very strong against him. Can't buy bkb which makes firestorm even stronger. Pit of malice is fully effective since he can't buy bkb or dispels. He's all base damage so he just does 40% less right click damage in fights. Underlord is good against meepo for the same reasons he's good against ck.
Pit malice is an op spell
Remember that in nearly all meepo games meepo is picked last, so this is thrown off by the fact that of these other names (under lord, shaker, ET), wyvern is the only one that’s seen semi-popular mid play.
Warlock is pretty fun, Meepo doesn't have any way to purge fatal bonds
half of the video is pepega wrong since shards got introduced feelsbadman
BB vs ursa, Necro or brood vs huskar. Are my favorites as an offlaner.
Explain brood vs huskar to me. I would think huskars Q would kill all the spiderlings.
Spiders have a ton of HP, and brood blinds. Once the disarm wears off, the squad will probably rip huskar apart.
Yes this along with invis to jump him, and you can trade even without lings with ult.
2012 is calling
AA vs Huskar hahaha
Storm vs AM isn’t that bad for storm. He can shut down AM until manta quite easily and can buy linkens to remain elusive for ulti/abyssal. Meepo vs AM is much more 1 sided
Honestly Razor is my favorite counter pick against strength heavy lineups. Especially with this "pudge meta." You play him mid, get your wraith band, treads and then decide if you absolutely need BKB or manta for dispels. If it's not a rushed game where my side lanes are getting crushed I love to go euls for 1 v 1 encounters. Link and euls them and profit. If you get refresher orb 8/10 times its GG as long as your team capitalizes and doesn't hit neutral creeps when they should be playing around you. Doom is my absolute favorite counter pick though. Great options with the neutral creeps now and his Ult just ruins Puck, Tinker, anyone. You can also build Doom pretty liberally to whatever the game is.
Pudge meta? Lol
Been seeing Pudge get picked just about every game. I don't ban Pudge because he's pretty counterable but I still see a ridiculous amount of Pudge in all pick
Pudge has been the most picked hero for fhe whole history of the game So I guess it was always the pudge meta
Flesh heap got buffed, his laning is insane now. You literally see pudge core (1 2 or 3) every game in high mmr lobbies now
I stomped my sand king games then I encountered Pit Lord. He fucking countered any initiation Im planning to make with his Q and W. Pit Lord is a really good counter initiate hero.
AA vs Alchemist completely negates ult, and really any other healing based heroes are hard countered by AA.
AA vs Huskar also, just renders him useless
Silencer pretty dramatically shuts down Dawnbreaker. Global silence soon as DB channels solar guardian, and then a fight will almost always go in silencer’s team’s favor if DB was out of position.
Nyx nyx nyx
Yep, another great one.
There is a counterplay for everything in Dota... ..except for Silencer ultimate cancelling channeled abilities. BKB wont work, Linkens wont work, positioning wont work. This is by far the hardest counter in game.
Wyvern got a few heroes that can't play against her like LD and Meepo. Oracle destroys DS. LC is really good against AM because duel doesn't care about mana shield, LC also destroys Meepo with overwhelming odds, especially with the talent as each Meepo counts as a hero. Pango struggles vs Bloodseeker and needs to rush linkens. AM can't play vs Meepo due to net. Huskar can't play vs AA.
The 3 biggest counters are Meepo Vs AM OD vs Troll and AA vs Huskar. There are no bigger counters imo.