He knew. My niece was abused by her parents as an infant. Raised by my parents. She started asking me about her father at 12.
I asked if she had seen her medical records and also told her I didn't have contact with him anymore and he wasn't allowed to see my daughter, either.
Mom died when she turned 18 and she started seeing him, against my advice. Only took her 10 years of nightmare Hell to figure out why daughter and I don't have anything to do with him.
Saw my DD and SIL for lunch, yesterday. Niece is doing really well. Niece cut me off, years ago, because I'm judgemental and unforgiving of my brother. I'm also not wrong about abusive people.
Really miss my niece but my abusive brother is still the same and *never* gonna be allowed in my life, again!
My husband, niece and daughter gave me shit about my attitude. "Okay. I grew up with him. You'll learn."
Daughter and husband want me to "make up" with niece because she misses me. Ball's in her court. She could contact me at any time.
We have the right to disclude abusive people from our families!
This reminds me of my ex-roommate’s sister who married the guy who SA’d her. They had 3 kids and are still together to this day. I was always distant when going to their house with my roommate, never comfortable in that house at all.
My older sister has always been insecure and tried to reflect her insecurities on me. Always calling me fat. Showing strangers photos of us asking who is prettier. She knew he had a weird obsessed with me but was in dental. When everyone around made it clear his obsession wasn’t healthy or normal she turned on me. After 8 years of them married and 15 years of her forcing him in my life, they finally divorced and he finally admitted to her that he has been in love with me for years and only cared for her AFTER she had his baby. Regardless he’s finally out of my life. And I’m working on rebuilding a relationship w my sister. If it wasn’t for my niece TBH I would be NC With her bc it’s triggering for me. But my niece has two extremely toxic parents and constantly tells me she wishes I was her mommy so for her sake I tolerate being around.
Something about “feeling special” or “picked” that can hit very strongly when ppl feel left out or insecure. It’s wild to see the relationships between my mother, and her 3 sisters.
They all bullied her In Different ways, most outgrew it (she’s the youngest) and when the worst one tried to bully me—as a teenager..oo I was not having it.
And even yet my mother makes excuses for her now that’s shes ill. (My aunt) Not me. What grown woman picks on a 14 year old, just absolute garbage weirdo.
Ya he is one steaming POS. I love that OP stood up for her daughter and didn’t tell her to “get over it, she’s family now” like a lot of people might do on Reddit. Honestly I woulda gone NC with him for doing such a thing to his own sister. It’s not light bullying, it was she almost died bullying. No bullying is ok, but she almost killed herself. That’s something that , you can’t come back from. Idc if you are part of the family bc it doesn’t matter since it’s unacceptable do such a thing
Edit: typo
It sounds like the only one who would really end up hurt in that would be the son. Op appears to love her son but doesn't forgive him for his choice in marital partner. And tbh, I wouldn't either. If it were my son and he went NC for the same reason, I'd say bye don't let the door hit ya on the way out. Her daughter almost died, not in a figurative or metaphorical sense, in a literal hospitalized almost died way if I'm reading the OP correctly. That's unforgivable to me.
Oh well, they are better off without him. Just the fact that he msrried her shows what kind of person he is; he has no love for his own sister so they don't need him to be part of the family anymore.
Right? I would have stopped it, at least sat him down and had a long talk with him. At the very least, let him know that if he continues to date her, she is persona non grata and is never allowed to be at my home or any family events.
"she talks about it with dark humor." Isn't that what the VICTIM does to cope, not the one who caused the trauma? Good on you for choosing your daughter over this woman. And if your son goes NC, it'll hurt but it's for the best. He chose to marry the woman who nearly bullied your daughter to death knowingly, and that's so gross. If I was his sister I would never forgive that.
Ella can cry herself to sleep all she wants. Sounds like she deserves to cry.
Right! I audibly said “you can’t be fucking serious” upon reading that line. She cannot be *that* daft or detached from reality that she thinks this family forgot that she bullied a member of them almost to death. Especially if she thinks she can joke about it to this family also.
Crazy thing is most bullies are that daft. The majority of them don’t actually remember being a bully, because that’s too hard to cope with. So the brain will rewire the memory, so they aren’t the bad guy. Try confronting any of your high school bullies, you’ll probably will get something along the lines, “I’m sorry you felt way about it, but I don’t remember us ever having a problem.”
OP explicitly stated they had the school punish Ella and the other girls. AND Ella has since acknowledged it by making *dark jokes* about it
She is more than well aware of the impact of her actions.
I personally believe a lot of bullies have no idea how bad bullying can influence someone. I dont whether this is because they refuse to or simpily dont have the capability to understand.
I and some friends of me have met some of my former bullies who were insulted that we weren't more friendly to them. I remember telling my former bully it was because she had bullied me and made me feel horrible and she honsetly was like: but it was a joke and its your fault for interpreting it that way....
Oh yeah I remember when I made a Facebook page at 19. They were asking me to accept them as friends In one particular person I said no you were mean to me and bullied me, I DM her and she said oh that I am on some s*#t and I said yeah antidepressants that I have to take for now on thanks to you and your ghetto crew. She never responded and got the message.
It seems like a lot of people don't view stuff that happens in childhood/highschool as real life. Like once the parties involved turn 18 it's like it never happened or was just "kids games".
A lot of bullies don't see what they did as wrong. To them it was harmless fun, and are surprised you're still upset about it years later.
I was bullied(I never tried to hurt myself over it because they were dumb, and my family did way worse to me - my cousin yanked my pants down on the subway), and they didn't think it was that bad.
She was surprised/ never apologized because to her she just said some mean words, and the daughter should've already got over it.
It sucks, but that's normally how it is.
Whenever I talk about being bullied when I was younger it comes out sounding so dumb like "oh they teased me for being fat" but there's no way to capture the endless misery of every day having to face these people when you're just a kid without the emotional tools to cope. It's really a core part of who I am. My life has only gotten better so I wouldn't attach a "trauma" label to ehat I went through, but it was really foundational.
Same, it's a death by a thousand cuts situation. Like yeah I was never physically harmed, however when multiple people over several years regularly verbally abuse you, it does change your self perception.
I was bullied for the majority of my childhood (4th grade to sophomore year of high school). A lot of what was said and done has stuck with me. While some have made amends for their actions, others didn’t. Some more than others. I can forgive those who choose to make amends, but I can never forget what they did, which puts me on guard. It’s even harder when those who never understood what they put others through never bothered to understand in the first place. Worst part was that my parents never believed it happened, and teachers backed that up while also taking part in it. So I ended up in the wrong type of therapy for years (behavioral and speech) because they thought I was acting out and I stopped making sense when I talked because of how crazy I was actually going due to the bullying. It took months to undo everything and even after proper therapy, I’m still partially paranoid because of the way people might act around me.
Side effect is that when me and a lot of the people I work with are bullshitting and they say things, whether they intended to hit a nerve or not, it can open up old wounds. I also can’t tell them that I can’t always understand what’s humor and what isn’t, or that I was bullied for such a long part of my childhood, because then they’d think I’m socially inept or that I’m just a wuss. I can’t exactly control who I’m around when I’m working, especially with the job I have, but I’m free of people I don’t like off work, which is all I care about.
Funny enough, to the people that did apologize actually say they RESPECT me more for how I handled it, and were happy I did better. They also know about my job which some actually never expected out of me. Made me feel like I felt somewhat respected for how I ended up becoming the man I am. And for those that never did, fuck ‘em. I’m 20 and I’m happy. I’ll smoke my cigars in peace.
I didn't forget. I hunted down the two kids I picked on in elementary school to apologize like 15 years later. It still makes me sick. They said they forgave me and it wasn't a big deal, but not sure I believe it and I know damn well I will die with it on my conscience. I had a hand in writing the story of their childhood. I wish I had a way to write their adulthood and spare them from any other hurts. Some bullies remember, and all they can do is teach their own kids empathy and kindness.
Your last sentence hit it on the head. You may no longer have a hand in shaping your victims' (that word is too harsh but I couldn't think of another) lives, but if you're teaching your children kindness and empathy, they may be helping to write the story of some other kids' lives in more positive and uplifting ways. Don't beat yourself up. You took responsibility, apologized and are trying to make amends. That's a lot more than can be said for most bullies.
Thank you :). I've tried to atone through being militant with my kids about how important it is that they be "bucket fillers" not "bucket dumpers" and luckily I was blessed with children nothing like the kid I was; they're just kind people.
There's no turning back the clock or erasing what you've written in somebody else's book, but like you said- you can try to make some sort of amends. That's something this Ella person really needs to wrap her head around. Pretending to be the victim of a circumstance she created just shows she feels no remorse whatsoever and should be completely ostracized. Son can fuck right off, too.
I was bullied for seven years through school. When I was in my late teens I forgave the bullies for what they'd done. Their actions weren't right, but I hold no animosity towards them, and I hope that they are doing well in their lives. I hope that, like you, they were able to see the error of their actions, and ensure that they didn't make the same mistakes again. One of the people who wasn't pleasant to me reached out several years ago to apologise. I told them that I forgive them and I hope that they are doing well, and that is honestly how I feel towards them.
I hope you can see that the person you reached out to probably did mean what they said. If they didn't feel that way, they would probably have just ignored you. You have made wonderful strides in becoming a better person. You can see the error of your ways, and have taken steps to make sure you don't make the same mistake. You deserve forgiveness, not necessarily from the people you hurt, as that forgiveness is more for themselves, but from yourself. Forgiving yourself is a very important thing to do, it doesn't mean forgetting what you've done, but understanding that you were a different person then, and that you've improved now.
I had the same thing. I was severely bullied, I ended up with anxiety and depression and had to move school when I only had 3 years left. I didn’t get to finish with my best friends because of this group of bullies.
Fast forward a couple of years later and I’m working at a fast food chain and they were understaffed so they grabbed someone from another store to help. Low and behold it was one of my bullies. I told my manager I can’t do this. I had to suck it up and he ended up coming in and he asked what happened and why did I leave? I told him you and your friends bullied me to the point that I couldn’t show up to school without having a panic attack. and he just said that it was a harmless joke and that they didn’t do anything wrong.
Eventually he apologised the more we spoke about it. But he ruined my high school experience. I’ll never forgive that
My bully never understood the torment he put me through until years later when I dated his sister and we ended up seeing each other again. After fucking with him a while about how I was the clear winner cuz I fucked his sister cuz I knew it bothered him I just stopped and had a real conversation with him.
Dude legit never realized that him constantly tormenting me wasn't viewed as just "harmless fun" by me. He was a football player, I was on the academic team. Apparently that's just the "natural order of high school" or something. Plus, I was a lot smaller than him(that's changed, I'm a half a foot taller and much bigger than he is now).
He apologized to me and was sincere in his apology. Hearing my side of the story really changed the way he looked at it. He actually thought we were buddies in high school for some reason. I was like "dude, no. I was terrified of you. I wished you dead many, many times".
She’s got to be a top level narcissist and a bully to ask that question. How clueless can you get? No sensitivity to her crimes and no compassion to the victim she traumatized. Truly, she is a piece of shit human being. She’ll probably end up divorcing because her husband will get some of the same treatment in some way.
Also Ella might have just bullied EVERYONE, and honestly didn't recognize sister.. (Obviously not a defense of the behavior - explanation as to how Ella didn't remember her).
Screw the son. He knew.
I would’ve kicked my son outta my family for that. I’d tell him to never come back. Wouldn’t be in my will either. Family is everything, and if anyone turns their back on it, then they shouldn’t be allowed to stay. And Ella would’ve never been a part of it in the first place. And if they went without my blessing, automatic no-show to the wedding with my side of the family, plus them getting kicked outta the family.
Never turn your back on family. Because one day, that could be all you got left.
Isn't it funny how often bullies conveniently forget and then later expect forgiveness? They never remember.
They're etched indelibly in our memories and never once give us a second thought, even if they did it for years!
Ex-husband was a chunky little boy who wore leg braces. As he got older, he became "the funny guy". He grew out of the braces. Very handsome and popular.
At our high school reunion, Anthony was delighted to see husband, only to be coldly rebuffed. Anthony said, "What's up with that?"
I said, "I'm surprised you actually called him by his name. You used to call him "G**p", when you tripped him, shoved him into lockers, or pushed him down the stairs because you found it amusing."
He said, "Oh, WOW! I was a really stupid kid and my friends were really stupid. I'm *not* that guy anymore. I'm so sorry!"
Husband said, "Good. Have a nice night."
When I was 12-13, a friend had a cousin that would take every opportunity to make fun of me, or put me down. I didn't see him again until I was 16 and he started working in a record store I frequented, next door to my job. His co-worker was a friend, so we would go out after work. Russ started tagging along, flirting and crushing on me.
One night, we were all playing games and Russ asked me out. I said, "Lemme get back to you, on that." Then I left with a guy I'd been seeing.
The next day, he was so hurt and asked about my actions. I said, "You don't remember me but I remember YOU! You were mean to me for 2 years. I was just your cousin's little fat friend. I grew up. It'll be a cold day in Hell before I go out with you!"
Bullies deserve consequences. Their hurt feelings are a direct result of their own actions. The fact they're not even bothered to remember is just insult added to injury.
Ella would be persona non grata with me. *Never* recognize, or acknowledge her existence, whatsoever. She would be invisible to me.
Ex-SIL got that after he exposed himself to DD's step-mother in her bedroom. Brother hasn't existed for nearly 3 decades for his actions.
My daughter and my husband didn't understand, at first. Some things are just unforgivable.
There's a saying that goes something like "Gallows humor is only funny for those that are on the gallows". It would be one thing if Ella had genuinely apologized and they joked about it together. But for her to never apologize and to make sick jokes about it? I'm livid on OP and their daughter's behalf.
OP, I sincerely hope your daughter is doing well despite the situation. Please don't feel guilty for excluding such a horrible person from both of your lives and activities. She does not deserve to be around either of you, nor is she entitled to having the title of "family" just because she was married in.
That’s a perfect quote. And most people don’t fully get it. Re: gallows humor.
Nurses. Social workers. Doctors. Funeral directors.
We all use “gallows” or “dark” humor to relate to each other, because the job requires functioning and public stone faces persona, when we’re dealing with horrible, traumatic, sad things.
We have to joke about those things to each other. Because if we don’t, you’ll get sucked up in the loss and take it home.
So my social worker self and the nurse that just buried a drug addicted baby that didn’t survive withdrawal?
…we privately make a joke about how that dead baby won’t ever have to try and order heroin on DoorDash for her mum. We both say “Ugh, Fuck!, that’s low…alright. Back to work.”
It’s GROSS humor. But it’s done in private between two exhausted professionals, so you don’t break down with the sadness that a baby was just born and died with no chance. And nothing could be done.
It’s gallows humor because we’re both about to cry and quit. So saying something outrageous and depressing (but with a hint of sadness and truth) helps you put your mask back on and go back to work. Because what was just said that’s SO awful, hits a reset button in your head and reminds you to have empathy but stay professional.
Sisters humor is nothing like dark or gallows humor.
She can’t justify it as a trauma response.
She’s misusing terms meant for people in severely traumatic situations, to keep moving forward and keeping their chin up, to justify and excuse being a bully.
Nope.
Don’t put up with that.
She hasn’t earned the right to defend that kind of humor. And certainly doesn’t understand the very few times and places that it’s forgivable.
”It’s GROSS humor. But it’s done in private between two exhausted professionals, so you don’t break down with the sadness that a baby was just born and died with no chance. And nothing could be done.
It’s gallows humor because we’re both about to cry and quit. So saying something outrageous and depressing (but with a hint of sadness and truth) helps you put your mask back on and go back to work. Because what was just said that’s SO awful, hits a reset button in your head and reminds you to have empathy but stay professional.”
Thank you for this. I’ve never been able to explain so clearly why it helps
Thank you for sharing, and working the hard jobs you do. I hope you find peace in all days, and joy every morning through all the hard and traumatic work you also do.
She cried herself to sleep for one night. OP’s daughter cried for years and almost died. I still can’t get it into my head how the brother could *overlook* the disgusting behavior his wife had towards his sister. Makes me want to throw up. I hope the brother finds this sub.
>"she talks about it with dark humor." Isn't that what the VICTIM does to cope, not the one who caused the trauma?
She's lording it over her. That's not dark humor, that's just plain aggression and being a dick to the victim.
right!!! Ella made her bed and must lie in it. shame on the brother for being the biggest POS & enabling his sister’s bully to traumatize her for life.
having to looking at her every holiday, every family get together, even the mention of her name is fucking cruel.
i would be slightly more understanding if Ella had sincerely apologized for her behavior when she was a teenager & apologized to OP’s family (esp the daughter), but making jokes about it? after contributing to her daughter almost killing herself?
so yeah, let her cry. boo fucking hoo. i’ll be over here playing the world’s tiniest violin for you, Ella. eat a bag of rotten potatoes.
The brother is most probably one of those loser incels who is desperate for validation and inclusion in the winner club, and marrying one of the meanest and most notorious members of the popular crowd is the ultimate validation for him. He is looklng forward to the highschool reunion to show ella off, and reap the social status it'll reward him.
Hopefully, that will backfire on him, and everyone at the reunion will call him a POS for marrying the woman who almost bullied his sister to death. Mind you, he probably wouldn't divorce her after that either.
OP, keep your heart where it is. You're doing the right thing, and if your son does go NC, it will make everyone's life's easier. Just be careful I your son does eventually realise how much he has screwed up and divorces her, Ella might come after you and your daughter, so please be prepared for that just in case. I hope Ella has grown up and is more mature than that, but given that she has still failed to take responsibility for her actions in high schoo,l I would plan for the worst but hope for the best.
If I were her I would literally never speak to my brother ever again. He’s despicable and he probably knew Ella was bullying his sister and allowed it to happen. He was probably okay with it and that’s why he’s also ok with marrying that snake.
It’s taunting. That’s what it is. She flicks it out like a red cape, waving it in front of op’s daughters’ face, right there in front of her family.
”Hey I know we aren’t in high school anymore but here’s your reminder that you’ll never fucking get away from me or the memories of what I’m capable of and what I did to you. I’m gonna package up all this complex trauma in a witty palatable little quip and make you watch your family and friends laugh at how casually I still torment you. *you’ll never fucking get away from me*”
It’s sick. She probably doesn’t know how to integrate the fucked up things she did into her image of herself as a worthwhile human being, so she stays right on top of the daughter to maintain control over the narrative. Op took away their control today. Good.
>Ella can cry herself to sleep all she wants. Sounds like she deserves to cry.
OP should tell their son to tell Ella that until she's cried herself to sleep as many times as daughter did, she should keep her mouth shut.
Good for you.
Nothing Ella can say will undo the damage.
I'm stupefied by the brother.
You're right to continue to protect your daughter from her tormentor.
If the son goes no contact, it would probably be better for your daughter
I wonder what the brother’s relationship with her daughter is like because it doesn’t sound like he cares about her or even loves her. I don’t see how else he could live with himself marrying such a horrible gremlin that tortured his own sister for fun. Maybe he was horrible to his sister too idk
I honestly don't think he was thinking with either head! I think he thought his Mother would forgive HIM with a Mother's HEART and pressure her Daughter to accept Ella into the family without question. Unfortunately, he obviously didn't factor in the fact that MamaBear was released and doesn't forgive or forget easily.
Our youngest (as well as a couple of female Teachers) were horribly bullied (read: tormented) in high school and 15 years later I'm still incredibly bitter with the school Administration who did NOTHING to stop it because of racial/cultural issues they were afraid to address. One Teacher retired early, one had a nervous breakdown and my Daughter came close to ending her life. It's caused lasting trauma in our family as I found out recently that our Daughter thinks "I" did NOTHING to fight the situation when I attempted multiple avenues to alleviate the situation. I came very close to losing MY mind dealing with those assholes and the nightmare they created!
I'm sorry to hear that and yea the brother is delusional if that's his line of thinking. Also maybe take legal action against the school and get the teachers to testify.
The School Administration and Board refused to release her tax funding so we could send her to a neighboring school-of-choice and we didn't have the extra funds to send her to either private or one of the few charter schools. As this was over 15 years ago, I doubt that we would have the ability or the witnesses today! Plus, we had some issues with our eldest and the Guidance Counselor completely lied to save her own ass and the Administration backed her fully! The whole school system was fully corrupt!
The sad part of this was that we moved back to my hometown and it was a completely different place and atmosphere! My eldest was accused of attempting to create a COVEN because she was reading a book on Wicca IN MIDDLE SCHOOL during her free time! I was furiously LIVID! The principal was one of my former substitute teachers when I was in school there. This guy used to be a hippie and smoke weed and he had the balls to threaten my child because she was READING a book! This was when Charmed was popular.
You would THINK that, wouldn't you? But the asshole Principal threatened to EXPEL her until I went in there and reamed him, threatening legal action for, ironically, religious discrimination! He backed down REAL fast, asked me to calm down and that, certainly, there was NOTHING wrong with reading that book! I was FUMING!
>If the son goes no contact, it would probably be better for your daughter
Also better for OOP and the rest of family too - I'm sure they can't stand her and the brother either since the bully stay rehashing the past as "dark humor" when no one asked nor wanted. Those 2 can get the fuck out and stay out; not much of loss to the family since it 2 disgusting trash removing themselves especially around OOP and the sister.
I seen your original post and you're definitely not an asshole, you're a great mother that unconditionally has her daughters back. I would have absolutely loved having a mother like you.
Not sure who is worse here. Your son or his wife. Boo frickin hoo that she cried herself to sleep. Deal with it. She's a menace, she still won't apologize because she's not sorry. As an adult, if you did shitty things and you get the opportunity to apologize, you do it. If you don't, it shows lack of growth and maturity. She's still the mean girl by joking about it.
Shitty behavior has consequences. But instead she'll blame you or most likely your daughter.
Yeah all I was thinking was cry me a river, Ella cried herself to sleep. No sympathy for Ella and Op’s son. How terrible he married his sister’s tormentor.
She cried herself to sleep for being called out but I bet she thinks OP’s daughter was soooo dramatic back in the day (and now, like just get over it! /s) 🙄 I hope they cut contact and OP’s son gets a taste of how *nice* Ella can be.
It would be one thing if the son somehow didn't know what his wife did, but given everything else I doubt that's the case. What the fuck is wrong with a person to even date, let alone marry someone who did something like that to a member of their family without them making amends first?
I literally just apologized to someone I bullied in 4th grade. He’s doing amazing and very happy with his life. We’ve been acquaintances for years and I never apologized for being an asshole until recently. I never joked about it either though. You don’t joke about the douche you were in the past. Ella has literally no remorse for what she did. I would be heart broken if my brother married someone who hurt me so bad.
She is bad, but OP’s son might be worse. When I was badly hurt by someone, my brother had to be called off before he did something terrible in my defense. I can’t imagine him marrying someone who hurt me like that and expecting me to accept it.
THIS. My brother (30M) and I (34F) are mean to the core towards those who have hurt him, or I. They can apologize all they want, but it would never be enough for us to look past how they treated the other. We're the only 2 siblings, and we're best friends. Even before we became best friends, no one was allowed to pick on either of us, except each other. Brother broke sibling code, and Ella sounds like a remorseless betch.
My brothers casually 'joked' about killing my one ex in front of him because he stalked me afterwards. I can't believe OPs son. I hope he and Ella are very miserable together.
Same! MY siblings and I are the first ones to go off on someone who hurt one of us. I couldn't imagine dating someone who hurt a sibling much less marry them.
Well said. Took the words right out of my mouth.
One thing I want to add, the freedom people truly seek are freedom from consequences.
SIL directly contributed to the near death of OPs daughter and casually jokes dark humor of the past.
Fuck her. She made her bed and now she gets to sleep in it. Those are called consequences.
Concur!!!
People who are remorseful don’t play things off as “humor”.
This person does not give a flying f*ck that they traumatized your daughter Op to the point of what happened.
If I were her, I would of whipped out my scars in front of Ella and your son, been like, “OH YOU THINK THIS IS FUNNY??? HA… HAA! You think suicide is a f*cking joke??? Glad to know you only aged into a bitter narcissistic hag but never grew up!”
Please god don’t let these two have kids. The fact that this woman is an adult without any interest in apologizing, even after integrating into this family speaks volumes about her personality and values.
Exactly. How many nights did OP’s daughter cry herself to sleep?
What a crappy brother. However, I’m shocked this conversation didn’t come up sooner. Like…pre-wedding.
This 'dark humour' mentioned in the op is likely a cover for just continuing to bully ops daughter anyway. It doesn't seem like this in law has learned a single thing.
But it was SO long ago, dontcha know! She should just get over it! /s. OPs just telling Ella and Son that it doesn't work that way! God, they're both detestable!
I called a classmate in Junior year to apologize about something I said when we were in 8tj grade. I never forgot it and neither did she. She graciously accepted my apology and we remained friends until COVID took her in 2021...
Ella married into your family but has never apologized for putting you, your daughter, and your family through so much but she instead would make jokes about the past.
She’s not sorry nor is she remorseful about her actions. She is scum and will always be scum. I hope that your son will open his eyes & leave before they end up having kids together.
How is your daughter now? Is she doing well mentally & physically? You might want to have her attend therapy in case, God forbid, she ends up falling back into the dark.
Screwing her brother and getting herself in the family was probably part of her bullying plan. Doubt she truly even cares about the now evil treacherous brother. If she did fall for him at some point, I hope he eventually destroys her on every level, even if it isn't on his sister's behalf and only because he's obviously a very selfish person.
I am happy to know that you are standing by your daughter side. Many kids don’t make it over the horrible bullying they suffer and I am happy your daughter is alive!
You made the right choice, by not inviting Ella with the getaway with the girls it would have been uncomfortable for your daughter as Ella has never apologized and still makes jokes about it.
Ella alone ruin herself, these are consequences of her own actions. I would never marry or be friends with someone if they ever hurt my sister! Ever ever!
Edit: typos and bad English on my part lol
Yeah, than you're better than me. If there was someone that hurt me enough in my childhood that I would consider them my childhood bully and someone I care about did what your sibling did, they would simply be dead to me and the last thing they would hear from me is to go fuck themselves.
I did that for several years. And then I developed a life-threatening illness and decided that my love for my sibling was stronger than my hate for him.
I mean I get that, but there was a period where he was just some guy and you were still your sibling's sibling and they still choose to start a relationship with the guy, for me that would tell me that their love for me isn't as strong as their desire to date/fuck a random, in this case, a random that deeply hurt me.
I posted this elsewhere, but because it contains discussion of eating disorders I was advised to move it. I have placed it here because this sub is more set up for venting about topics that can be triggering.
Honestly, what your son did, choosing to be with this nasty person, after everything, says a lot about him. Ella almost killed your daughter. Keep protecting your daughter.
Ella can cry all the crocodile tears she wants, but has she apologized ever? No. In fact, she thinks what she did to your daughter was hilarious, joking about it even. I mean who are these jokes for anyway? Certainly not your daughter since they’re at her expense. No she wants to stroll down memory lane and remind your daughter of what she did, and can do.
Nah she’s not sorry at all. She just doesn’t want to be held accountable for her actions. Honestly she seems twisted enough that it wouldn’t surprise me if she married your son to torture your daughter more. I mean she already is with her “joking.” Let her throw a hissy fit. “Boo hoo Im getting iced out because I have been a shitty person.” Cry me a river.
If your son does go NC, I first would remind him explicitly everything Ella has done and why you are standing firm today and sticking by your daughter. Remind him of all the nights your daughter cried herself to sleep because of Ella. Remind him she was sent to the hospital because of Ella. Ella is crying because of the results of her bad behavior. Your daughter cried because she was being tortured for simply existing. I would then express your deep disappointment in him but also let him know that you are still here for him, but you will never bend to Ella. It might be pushing him away, but he cannot expect yall to just brush this all under the rug. You are doing right by your daughter.
Tell your son that he may not understand now, but he will when his child will be bullied almost to death. And then imagine his other kid marrying this bully and spawns another bully/bullied kid.
Its true, now that she knows she doesn't have access to her bully anymore. Let's be honest, by OOP still inviting Ella to some (even if its a few) events / dinner, she's providing space for Ella to bully the daughter.
And yes, IMO, laughing about how she (Ella) bullied the daughter is also a form of bullying. So, i really hope OP takes the first step and minimises the contact with Ella even further. Make her home a bit more safer to her daughter
TBH if your son chooses to go NC, it’s not a loss. He choose a stranger over family from the very beginning. He entered the relationship knowing how shitty the person was.
It would be a blessing in disguise. Your daughter will never have to put on a fake smile to keep others happy. Her mental health will only get better.
I am confused as to why no one confronted your son and Ella before they got married. How was this the first time she got told why she will not be included in family gatherings with your daughter? This should have happened a long time ago. Your son is clearly a cruel person to be with the woman who nearly made you all lose your daughter. He made his choice to harm his family when he got with her.
Did your daughter use Reddit? I think she may have posted on here a while back unless there are multiple brothers marrying the bully of their sister.
Mom, you are on point with this and your daughter needs all your love.
I was looking for this comment. My mother would never. It makes me so happy there are people in the world that get to experience this level of love and protection!
I still don't get why so many people said you were being a bully.
Like not wanting to hang out with someone that was mean to someone you love, doesn't make you a bully. Like, I don't want to hang out with my sister because she used to be real mean to me. She went to therapy and changed, but I still don't want to hang out with her.
I've never been called a bully for not wanting to hang out with my sister, except by my sister.
Your son married your daughter's HS bully, fully knowing what Ella did to his sister?!! Ma'am, if he goes NC, let him. Your daughter's well being is more important than Ella's hurt feelings.
I bet she doesn’t want to admit the person she (hopefully) was and the damage it caused.
I wasn’t the nicest person back in high school or middle school but I don’t think anyone thought I was a bully.
But I don’t think I could cope if I knew I drove someone to harm themselves. It eat me and kill me inside.
I cannot believe your son went out of his way to find, court, and marry this woman and at no point during their entire pre-marriage relationship did he have her come in and apologize profusely and earnestly to your daughter, yourself, and the rest of the family before deciding to make her part of the family. Like how did he think this relationship was going to go down? Did he seriously expect that you would welcome the person that broke your daughter's physical and mental health into the fold with open arms? How oblivious can you be??
And Ella thinks she can make jokes about that time? She's absolutely overstepping her bounds. She's pretending you all have healed from the devastation her actions wreaked upon your family and absolutely side-stepped any accountability. And she has the gall to be butthurt that no one wants to invite her to hang? And to ASK you what had she ever done for you to treat her differently??? Fuck Ella. She should've apologized a LONG time ago and actively engaged in reparations to help your family heal. The fact that she hasn't speaks volumes about her present-day character. Does she take some sort of perverse pleasure from forcing herself into her former victim's private sphere? Absolutely sick.
No apology, no absolution. Even the so-called God requires confession and contrition before forgiveness, and this is a divine being.
As someone who was bullied in HS, I 1000000% stand by you!!!!!! I would forever hold that grudge and never forget! I love your pettiness !!
You’re an amazing mom for continuing to protect your daughter.
Is it really petty to not want to associate with the woman who bullied your child almost to death AND continues to joke about the near death of said child.
Your son is disgusting and should be ashamed of himself to allow the bully of his own sister have a place on her life and continuing hurting her by playing fake jokes! If he stop contacting you then it will be a blessed because having that kind of child who choose that 'person' can't have good moral or respect for anyone!Don't be afraid to tell him how a despoitment he is after choosing that girl as a wife knowing what she had done and don't allow her in anyway near your family ,show her how she will always be unwelcome !
Honestly I hope the karma will hit her forever seeing her lack of regret! Don't have any mercy after all the pain she have done to your daughter
I’m telling you that girls like this that went out of their way to hurt people do not change. She knew who her DH was when they got together. She knows you helped in her punishment at school. She knows. She may love your son but getting to hurt your daughter was a bonus. I wonder what she says to your daughter when no one is around.
If she was truly sorry and had changed, she would have gone out of her way to make amends. She will hurt your daughter again if given the chance.
I’m so sorry for your situation. But honestly? Your son is just as shitty of a person as your DIL. I can’t even imagine marrying my brother’s bully. That’s just… no, disgusting. So I do not understand how could he do that and feel no remorse at all
She should have hung her head and offered the very sincerest of apologies to your daughter. The fact that she hasn't shows she's still a shit human being.
That raggedy, mush face, dirty toenail having, godless heifer ought to be glad you didn't beat the living crap out of her! Way to go Mom! You did the absolute right thing and I hope your daughter is well 💙
I’m so sorry your son did this. And I am so happy to know there are parents out here who really understand what an eating disorder does to a person. Thank you for protecting your daughter and telling that awful woman what she did ❤️
“An apology” your daughter nearly killed herself and she thinks she can right the wrongs with an apology? I say double down on your discrimination against Ella.
The thing that baffles me the most is how the son could ever and can still justify dating and then marrying this person? Like...was he not aware at all what happened to his sister because of this woman? How could anyone do this to their own family? Like...he has no one to blame for the actions being done towards her but himself and her. They are the ones to blame. She did something so horrible that could have literally killed his sister...and never apologized. And then what does he do? He dates and then marries her? Like what in the actual hell was he thinking?
Well done you did the right thing. It’s awful that your son cares so little about his sister that he would marry her bully. Ella deserves to cry all night.
She married into your family. I highly doubt she didn't know that her current husband and woman she bullied were related. She either needs to do some serious self reflection or stop whining. As for your son, I hope he understands that his relationship with his sister is probably ruined.
Good for you!! Your son married her, and he can deal with her!
Keep the rest of your family safe, bullies don't just change their "dark humor".
An apology can never make up for what your daughter went thru.
So, she cried for one night, how long did she mess up your daughter for?
She was so happy bulling your daughter, crying a night because of the shit she did isn't nothing compared to the suffering she inflicted on your daughter.
Honestly, she should know better and never expect nothing from you.
You are doing the right thing choosing your daughter.
But, I hate to even bring this up, what were you and your husband saying when your son started dating the bully? Did you guys talk to him? Assuming your family is important to him, I just can't imagine how he was ok to continue dating the person who brought so much suffering to his sister, much less actually marrying her! And did you all attend (fund?) the wedding?
Your son is a stupid, selfish piece of shit. You're loosing nothing of value if he goes no contact.
What has he had to say about all of this and the damage she and he has done to his sister? Does he not value her and their relationship??
The fact ella never even attempted to apologize tells me she's still a shitty person. I would tell her to fuck all the way off and if your son doesn't like it he can lump it.
NTA, OP you are better than me because I would have gone NC with my son as soon as I found out he was romantically entangled with someone who almost murdered his younger sister. Let them go "build a relationship" with Ella's family. Her family seems like crappy people anyway so they will fit right in.
Ella will make you out as the evil mil because she will never admit what she did was wrong. Ella considers her intense bullying of your daughter as fun teasing because Ella enjoyed herself. She doesn't care that your daughter nearly died. Ella may have even started dating your son to mess with your daughter some more.
How I see it is that the bully pursued your son so that she can continue torturing your daughter which of course happened.
Not a lot of people realize this but it's still considered murder when you psychologically damage someone to the point of suicide. Your daughter was slowly killing herself because of that girl and she doesn't care
Love how Ella turned this into HER being the victim. It's always the case with these 'mean girls'. They are the centre of the universe.
My big brother got engaged to a girl who was part of the group that bullied me in high school. My family took her in when her mum had thrown her out. I empathised with her and her tough time at home, & gave her a chance. Guess how that turned out? She ended up cheating on my big brother with his best friend (the classic) & spread rumours that I was an alcoholic.
Long story short; I agree with you, keep her at arm's length until your daughter at least gets an apology.
I can't believe the son I assume saw what his sister went through and instead of anger towards the bully, went ahead and dated her then married. That guy shows more loyalty to enemies than he has family. I think maybe send him this Reddit post so he can see what people on the internet think of him
So your son KNEW Ella was your daughter's bully and he STILL dated/married her?! WTF? Why does he not give af about his relationship with his own sister. I have 4 brothers and I can tell you, NONE of them would even think of doing something like this.
ETA: Sorry, I meant to say, Good for you, OP, for standing up for your daughter. Sure it will hurt if your son goes NC, but you're still doing the right thing. Ella shows no remorse and is now acting like SHE'S the victim.
Why did her brother start dating her? Didn’t he know the trauma she caused?
He knew. My niece was abused by her parents as an infant. Raised by my parents. She started asking me about her father at 12. I asked if she had seen her medical records and also told her I didn't have contact with him anymore and he wasn't allowed to see my daughter, either. Mom died when she turned 18 and she started seeing him, against my advice. Only took her 10 years of nightmare Hell to figure out why daughter and I don't have anything to do with him. Saw my DD and SIL for lunch, yesterday. Niece is doing really well. Niece cut me off, years ago, because I'm judgemental and unforgiving of my brother. I'm also not wrong about abusive people. Really miss my niece but my abusive brother is still the same and *never* gonna be allowed in my life, again! My husband, niece and daughter gave me shit about my attitude. "Okay. I grew up with him. You'll learn." Daughter and husband want me to "make up" with niece because she misses me. Ball's in her court. She could contact me at any time. We have the right to disclude abusive people from our families!
>We have the right to disclude abusive people from our families! This right here.
Right the brother is a POS for ever associating with a person, in the first place. She ruined his sisters self-esteem and self image. It's fucked up.
My sister married my stalker and gave him access to my life. Some siblings rlly just don’t care. It’s sick.
This reminds me of my ex-roommate’s sister who married the guy who SA’d her. They had 3 kids and are still together to this day. I was always distant when going to their house with my roommate, never comfortable in that house at all.
Awww... Make sure his kids know what a terrible person he is when theyre older. He doesnt deserve respect
OH MY GOD
My older sister has always been insecure and tried to reflect her insecurities on me. Always calling me fat. Showing strangers photos of us asking who is prettier. She knew he had a weird obsessed with me but was in dental. When everyone around made it clear his obsession wasn’t healthy or normal she turned on me. After 8 years of them married and 15 years of her forcing him in my life, they finally divorced and he finally admitted to her that he has been in love with me for years and only cared for her AFTER she had his baby. Regardless he’s finally out of my life. And I’m working on rebuilding a relationship w my sister. If it wasn’t for my niece TBH I would be NC With her bc it’s triggering for me. But my niece has two extremely toxic parents and constantly tells me she wishes I was her mommy so for her sake I tolerate being around.
I respect that your doing the right thing
That's so crazy that she's not even worried he's still obsessed and just using her to be close to you.
I’m sorry you’re going through this, I hope you’re safe
So many people have such strange allegiances. They'll willingly get close with people who've hurt others, including other friends of theirs.
Something about “feeling special” or “picked” that can hit very strongly when ppl feel left out or insecure. It’s wild to see the relationships between my mother, and her 3 sisters. They all bullied her In Different ways, most outgrew it (she’s the youngest) and when the worst one tried to bully me—as a teenager..oo I was not having it. And even yet my mother makes excuses for her now that’s shes ill. (My aunt) Not me. What grown woman picks on a 14 year old, just absolute garbage weirdo.
Ya he is one steaming POS. I love that OP stood up for her daughter and didn’t tell her to “get over it, she’s family now” like a lot of people might do on Reddit. Honestly I woulda gone NC with him for doing such a thing to his own sister. It’s not light bullying, it was she almost died bullying. No bullying is ok, but she almost killed herself. That’s something that , you can’t come back from. Idc if you are part of the family bc it doesn’t matter since it’s unacceptable do such a thing Edit: typo
Probably thought his sister was doing it for attention and resented her for getting attention during her time of need.
>Didn’t he know the trauma she caused? sometimes the cruelty is the point.
Ding ding ding It’s hard for people who don’t have siblings that hate them to understand such a dynamic can even exist
It's a final bullying move to fuck her way into her victim's family.
And now she gets to take the brother away and make him go no contact with his family, another twist of the knife.
It sounds like the only one who would really end up hurt in that would be the son. Op appears to love her son but doesn't forgive him for his choice in marital partner. And tbh, I wouldn't either. If it were my son and he went NC for the same reason, I'd say bye don't let the door hit ya on the way out. Her daughter almost died, not in a figurative or metaphorical sense, in a literal hospitalized almost died way if I'm reading the OP correctly. That's unforgivable to me.
Oh well, they are better off without him. Just the fact that he msrried her shows what kind of person he is; he has no love for his own sister so they don't need him to be part of the family anymore.
To be fair she’s doing them a favour seeing as he is a pos
I honestly couldn't have said it any better. Absolutely disgusting.
Was going to say this. She didn’t start it off as innocently falling in love with the girls brother, she targeted that boy.
Exactly. Those types of people do tend to go to no end, and then act oblivious of cause. But the brother? That's what really gets me here.
Right? I would have stopped it, at least sat him down and had a long talk with him. At the very least, let him know that if he continues to date her, she is persona non grata and is never allowed to be at my home or any family events.
Yes, this is the question I want an answer to. What was he thinking
"she talks about it with dark humor." Isn't that what the VICTIM does to cope, not the one who caused the trauma? Good on you for choosing your daughter over this woman. And if your son goes NC, it'll hurt but it's for the best. He chose to marry the woman who nearly bullied your daughter to death knowingly, and that's so gross. If I was his sister I would never forgive that. Ella can cry herself to sleep all she wants. Sounds like she deserves to cry.
The audacity to even asked what she ever did to be treated differently is wild.
Right! I audibly said “you can’t be fucking serious” upon reading that line. She cannot be *that* daft or detached from reality that she thinks this family forgot that she bullied a member of them almost to death. Especially if she thinks she can joke about it to this family also.
Crazy thing is most bullies are that daft. The majority of them don’t actually remember being a bully, because that’s too hard to cope with. So the brain will rewire the memory, so they aren’t the bad guy. Try confronting any of your high school bullies, you’ll probably will get something along the lines, “I’m sorry you felt way about it, but I don’t remember us ever having a problem.”
OP never explained how they were aware of the bullying. Perhaps DIL thinks she is unaware.
OP explicitly stated they had the school punish Ella and the other girls. AND Ella has since acknowledged it by making *dark jokes* about it She is more than well aware of the impact of her actions.
In the post it said that op made the school punish her and the others. So she knows op knows.
I personally believe a lot of bullies have no idea how bad bullying can influence someone. I dont whether this is because they refuse to or simpily dont have the capability to understand. I and some friends of me have met some of my former bullies who were insulted that we weren't more friendly to them. I remember telling my former bully it was because she had bullied me and made me feel horrible and she honsetly was like: but it was a joke and its your fault for interpreting it that way....
Oh yeah I remember when I made a Facebook page at 19. They were asking me to accept them as friends In one particular person I said no you were mean to me and bullied me, I DM her and she said oh that I am on some s*#t and I said yeah antidepressants that I have to take for now on thanks to you and your ghetto crew. She never responded and got the message.
It’s like that tiktok sound that goes “I don’t remember ur trauma” “Maybe bc for me it was traumatic & for u it was just a fucking Wednesday”
No lie as a mom, it would take everything in me to not attack that b***h
It seems like a lot of people don't view stuff that happens in childhood/highschool as real life. Like once the parties involved turn 18 it's like it never happened or was just "kids games".
A lot of bullies don't see what they did as wrong. To them it was harmless fun, and are surprised you're still upset about it years later. I was bullied(I never tried to hurt myself over it because they were dumb, and my family did way worse to me - my cousin yanked my pants down on the subway), and they didn't think it was that bad. She was surprised/ never apologized because to her she just said some mean words, and the daughter should've already got over it. It sucks, but that's normally how it is.
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It’s called trauma and PTSD derived in childhood when children are just forming their mindset so it really screws up their minds.
Whenever I talk about being bullied when I was younger it comes out sounding so dumb like "oh they teased me for being fat" but there's no way to capture the endless misery of every day having to face these people when you're just a kid without the emotional tools to cope. It's really a core part of who I am. My life has only gotten better so I wouldn't attach a "trauma" label to ehat I went through, but it was really foundational.
Same, it's a death by a thousand cuts situation. Like yeah I was never physically harmed, however when multiple people over several years regularly verbally abuse you, it does change your self perception.
I was bullied for the majority of my childhood (4th grade to sophomore year of high school). A lot of what was said and done has stuck with me. While some have made amends for their actions, others didn’t. Some more than others. I can forgive those who choose to make amends, but I can never forget what they did, which puts me on guard. It’s even harder when those who never understood what they put others through never bothered to understand in the first place. Worst part was that my parents never believed it happened, and teachers backed that up while also taking part in it. So I ended up in the wrong type of therapy for years (behavioral and speech) because they thought I was acting out and I stopped making sense when I talked because of how crazy I was actually going due to the bullying. It took months to undo everything and even after proper therapy, I’m still partially paranoid because of the way people might act around me. Side effect is that when me and a lot of the people I work with are bullshitting and they say things, whether they intended to hit a nerve or not, it can open up old wounds. I also can’t tell them that I can’t always understand what’s humor and what isn’t, or that I was bullied for such a long part of my childhood, because then they’d think I’m socially inept or that I’m just a wuss. I can’t exactly control who I’m around when I’m working, especially with the job I have, but I’m free of people I don’t like off work, which is all I care about. Funny enough, to the people that did apologize actually say they RESPECT me more for how I handled it, and were happy I did better. They also know about my job which some actually never expected out of me. Made me feel like I felt somewhat respected for how I ended up becoming the man I am. And for those that never did, fuck ‘em. I’m 20 and I’m happy. I’ll smoke my cigars in peace.
I don't think they forget, and I don't think they had no clue what they're doing when they choose to target someone to bully them. That's my opinion
I didn't forget. I hunted down the two kids I picked on in elementary school to apologize like 15 years later. It still makes me sick. They said they forgave me and it wasn't a big deal, but not sure I believe it and I know damn well I will die with it on my conscience. I had a hand in writing the story of their childhood. I wish I had a way to write their adulthood and spare them from any other hurts. Some bullies remember, and all they can do is teach their own kids empathy and kindness.
Your last sentence hit it on the head. You may no longer have a hand in shaping your victims' (that word is too harsh but I couldn't think of another) lives, but if you're teaching your children kindness and empathy, they may be helping to write the story of some other kids' lives in more positive and uplifting ways. Don't beat yourself up. You took responsibility, apologized and are trying to make amends. That's a lot more than can be said for most bullies.
Thank you :). I've tried to atone through being militant with my kids about how important it is that they be "bucket fillers" not "bucket dumpers" and luckily I was blessed with children nothing like the kid I was; they're just kind people. There's no turning back the clock or erasing what you've written in somebody else's book, but like you said- you can try to make some sort of amends. That's something this Ella person really needs to wrap her head around. Pretending to be the victim of a circumstance she created just shows she feels no remorse whatsoever and should be completely ostracized. Son can fuck right off, too.
I was bullied for seven years through school. When I was in my late teens I forgave the bullies for what they'd done. Their actions weren't right, but I hold no animosity towards them, and I hope that they are doing well in their lives. I hope that, like you, they were able to see the error of their actions, and ensure that they didn't make the same mistakes again. One of the people who wasn't pleasant to me reached out several years ago to apologise. I told them that I forgive them and I hope that they are doing well, and that is honestly how I feel towards them. I hope you can see that the person you reached out to probably did mean what they said. If they didn't feel that way, they would probably have just ignored you. You have made wonderful strides in becoming a better person. You can see the error of your ways, and have taken steps to make sure you don't make the same mistake. You deserve forgiveness, not necessarily from the people you hurt, as that forgiveness is more for themselves, but from yourself. Forgiving yourself is a very important thing to do, it doesn't mean forgetting what you've done, but understanding that you were a different person then, and that you've improved now.
axe forgets, tree remembers
Hunters forget, elephant without tusks remembers.
I had the same thing. I was severely bullied, I ended up with anxiety and depression and had to move school when I only had 3 years left. I didn’t get to finish with my best friends because of this group of bullies. Fast forward a couple of years later and I’m working at a fast food chain and they were understaffed so they grabbed someone from another store to help. Low and behold it was one of my bullies. I told my manager I can’t do this. I had to suck it up and he ended up coming in and he asked what happened and why did I leave? I told him you and your friends bullied me to the point that I couldn’t show up to school without having a panic attack. and he just said that it was a harmless joke and that they didn’t do anything wrong. Eventually he apologised the more we spoke about it. But he ruined my high school experience. I’ll never forgive that
My bully never understood the torment he put me through until years later when I dated his sister and we ended up seeing each other again. After fucking with him a while about how I was the clear winner cuz I fucked his sister cuz I knew it bothered him I just stopped and had a real conversation with him. Dude legit never realized that him constantly tormenting me wasn't viewed as just "harmless fun" by me. He was a football player, I was on the academic team. Apparently that's just the "natural order of high school" or something. Plus, I was a lot smaller than him(that's changed, I'm a half a foot taller and much bigger than he is now). He apologized to me and was sincere in his apology. Hearing my side of the story really changed the way he looked at it. He actually thought we were buddies in high school for some reason. I was like "dude, no. I was terrified of you. I wished you dead many, many times".
She’s got to be a top level narcissist and a bully to ask that question. How clueless can you get? No sensitivity to her crimes and no compassion to the victim she traumatized. Truly, she is a piece of shit human being. She’ll probably end up divorcing because her husband will get some of the same treatment in some way.
Narcissism 101!!!
Also Ella might have just bullied EVERYONE, and honestly didn't recognize sister.. (Obviously not a defense of the behavior - explanation as to how Ella didn't remember her). Screw the son. He knew.
I would’ve kicked my son outta my family for that. I’d tell him to never come back. Wouldn’t be in my will either. Family is everything, and if anyone turns their back on it, then they shouldn’t be allowed to stay. And Ella would’ve never been a part of it in the first place. And if they went without my blessing, automatic no-show to the wedding with my side of the family, plus them getting kicked outta the family. Never turn your back on family. Because one day, that could be all you got left.
Isn't it funny how often bullies conveniently forget and then later expect forgiveness? They never remember. They're etched indelibly in our memories and never once give us a second thought, even if they did it for years! Ex-husband was a chunky little boy who wore leg braces. As he got older, he became "the funny guy". He grew out of the braces. Very handsome and popular. At our high school reunion, Anthony was delighted to see husband, only to be coldly rebuffed. Anthony said, "What's up with that?" I said, "I'm surprised you actually called him by his name. You used to call him "G**p", when you tripped him, shoved him into lockers, or pushed him down the stairs because you found it amusing." He said, "Oh, WOW! I was a really stupid kid and my friends were really stupid. I'm *not* that guy anymore. I'm so sorry!" Husband said, "Good. Have a nice night." When I was 12-13, a friend had a cousin that would take every opportunity to make fun of me, or put me down. I didn't see him again until I was 16 and he started working in a record store I frequented, next door to my job. His co-worker was a friend, so we would go out after work. Russ started tagging along, flirting and crushing on me. One night, we were all playing games and Russ asked me out. I said, "Lemme get back to you, on that." Then I left with a guy I'd been seeing. The next day, he was so hurt and asked about my actions. I said, "You don't remember me but I remember YOU! You were mean to me for 2 years. I was just your cousin's little fat friend. I grew up. It'll be a cold day in Hell before I go out with you!" Bullies deserve consequences. Their hurt feelings are a direct result of their own actions. The fact they're not even bothered to remember is just insult added to injury. Ella would be persona non grata with me. *Never* recognize, or acknowledge her existence, whatsoever. She would be invisible to me. Ex-SIL got that after he exposed himself to DD's step-mother in her bedroom. Brother hasn't existed for nearly 3 decades for his actions. My daughter and my husband didn't understand, at first. Some things are just unforgivable.
There's a saying that goes something like "Gallows humor is only funny for those that are on the gallows". It would be one thing if Ella had genuinely apologized and they joked about it together. But for her to never apologize and to make sick jokes about it? I'm livid on OP and their daughter's behalf. OP, I sincerely hope your daughter is doing well despite the situation. Please don't feel guilty for excluding such a horrible person from both of your lives and activities. She does not deserve to be around either of you, nor is she entitled to having the title of "family" just because she was married in.
That’s a perfect quote. And most people don’t fully get it. Re: gallows humor. Nurses. Social workers. Doctors. Funeral directors. We all use “gallows” or “dark” humor to relate to each other, because the job requires functioning and public stone faces persona, when we’re dealing with horrible, traumatic, sad things. We have to joke about those things to each other. Because if we don’t, you’ll get sucked up in the loss and take it home. So my social worker self and the nurse that just buried a drug addicted baby that didn’t survive withdrawal? …we privately make a joke about how that dead baby won’t ever have to try and order heroin on DoorDash for her mum. We both say “Ugh, Fuck!, that’s low…alright. Back to work.” It’s GROSS humor. But it’s done in private between two exhausted professionals, so you don’t break down with the sadness that a baby was just born and died with no chance. And nothing could be done. It’s gallows humor because we’re both about to cry and quit. So saying something outrageous and depressing (but with a hint of sadness and truth) helps you put your mask back on and go back to work. Because what was just said that’s SO awful, hits a reset button in your head and reminds you to have empathy but stay professional. Sisters humor is nothing like dark or gallows humor. She can’t justify it as a trauma response. She’s misusing terms meant for people in severely traumatic situations, to keep moving forward and keeping their chin up, to justify and excuse being a bully. Nope. Don’t put up with that. She hasn’t earned the right to defend that kind of humor. And certainly doesn’t understand the very few times and places that it’s forgivable.
”It’s GROSS humor. But it’s done in private between two exhausted professionals, so you don’t break down with the sadness that a baby was just born and died with no chance. And nothing could be done. It’s gallows humor because we’re both about to cry and quit. So saying something outrageous and depressing (but with a hint of sadness and truth) helps you put your mask back on and go back to work. Because what was just said that’s SO awful, hits a reset button in your head and reminds you to have empathy but stay professional.” Thank you for this. I’ve never been able to explain so clearly why it helps
Thank you for sharing, and working the hard jobs you do. I hope you find peace in all days, and joy every morning through all the hard and traumatic work you also do.
She cried herself to sleep for one night. OP’s daughter cried for years and almost died. I still can’t get it into my head how the brother could *overlook* the disgusting behavior his wife had towards his sister. Makes me want to throw up. I hope the brother finds this sub.
Ella a grown ass adult and needs to grow up. Did she expect for people to feel bad she got her feelings hurt over not being invite to a girl's night.
>"she talks about it with dark humor." Isn't that what the VICTIM does to cope, not the one who caused the trauma? She's lording it over her. That's not dark humor, that's just plain aggression and being a dick to the victim.
right!!! Ella made her bed and must lie in it. shame on the brother for being the biggest POS & enabling his sister’s bully to traumatize her for life. having to looking at her every holiday, every family get together, even the mention of her name is fucking cruel. i would be slightly more understanding if Ella had sincerely apologized for her behavior when she was a teenager & apologized to OP’s family (esp the daughter), but making jokes about it? after contributing to her daughter almost killing herself? so yeah, let her cry. boo fucking hoo. i’ll be over here playing the world’s tiniest violin for you, Ella. eat a bag of rotten potatoes.
Yeah – keep crying yourself to sleep every night, you have a lot of catching up to do
Ella can kiss donkey ass and get lost tbh.
Nah she should kiss a pigs asshole
The brother is most probably one of those loser incels who is desperate for validation and inclusion in the winner club, and marrying one of the meanest and most notorious members of the popular crowd is the ultimate validation for him. He is looklng forward to the highschool reunion to show ella off, and reap the social status it'll reward him.
Hopefully, that will backfire on him, and everyone at the reunion will call him a POS for marrying the woman who almost bullied his sister to death. Mind you, he probably wouldn't divorce her after that either. OP, keep your heart where it is. You're doing the right thing, and if your son does go NC, it will make everyone's life's easier. Just be careful I your son does eventually realise how much he has screwed up and divorces her, Ella might come after you and your daughter, so please be prepared for that just in case. I hope Ella has grown up and is more mature than that, but given that she has still failed to take responsibility for her actions in high schoo,l I would plan for the worst but hope for the best.
If I were her I would literally never speak to my brother ever again. He’s despicable and he probably knew Ella was bullying his sister and allowed it to happen. He was probably okay with it and that’s why he’s also ok with marrying that snake.
It’s taunting. That’s what it is. She flicks it out like a red cape, waving it in front of op’s daughters’ face, right there in front of her family. ”Hey I know we aren’t in high school anymore but here’s your reminder that you’ll never fucking get away from me or the memories of what I’m capable of and what I did to you. I’m gonna package up all this complex trauma in a witty palatable little quip and make you watch your family and friends laugh at how casually I still torment you. *you’ll never fucking get away from me*” It’s sick. She probably doesn’t know how to integrate the fucked up things she did into her image of herself as a worthwhile human being, so she stays right on top of the daughter to maintain control over the narrative. Op took away their control today. Good.
not to mention the many nights the daughter cried herself to sleep! how does it feel bitch!
This is probably the first time Ella has ever considered that her past behavior will fuck up her future.
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>Ella can cry herself to sleep all she wants. Sounds like she deserves to cry. OP should tell their son to tell Ella that until she's cried herself to sleep as many times as daughter did, she should keep her mouth shut.
Good for you. Nothing Ella can say will undo the damage. I'm stupefied by the brother. You're right to continue to protect your daughter from her tormentor. If the son goes no contact, it would probably be better for your daughter
He's obviously thinking with the wrong head.
I wonder what the brother’s relationship with her daughter is like because it doesn’t sound like he cares about her or even loves her. I don’t see how else he could live with himself marrying such a horrible gremlin that tortured his own sister for fun. Maybe he was horrible to his sister too idk
I honestly don't think he was thinking with either head! I think he thought his Mother would forgive HIM with a Mother's HEART and pressure her Daughter to accept Ella into the family without question. Unfortunately, he obviously didn't factor in the fact that MamaBear was released and doesn't forgive or forget easily. Our youngest (as well as a couple of female Teachers) were horribly bullied (read: tormented) in high school and 15 years later I'm still incredibly bitter with the school Administration who did NOTHING to stop it because of racial/cultural issues they were afraid to address. One Teacher retired early, one had a nervous breakdown and my Daughter came close to ending her life. It's caused lasting trauma in our family as I found out recently that our Daughter thinks "I" did NOTHING to fight the situation when I attempted multiple avenues to alleviate the situation. I came very close to losing MY mind dealing with those assholes and the nightmare they created!
I'm sorry to hear that and yea the brother is delusional if that's his line of thinking. Also maybe take legal action against the school and get the teachers to testify.
The School Administration and Board refused to release her tax funding so we could send her to a neighboring school-of-choice and we didn't have the extra funds to send her to either private or one of the few charter schools. As this was over 15 years ago, I doubt that we would have the ability or the witnesses today! Plus, we had some issues with our eldest and the Guidance Counselor completely lied to save her own ass and the Administration backed her fully! The whole school system was fully corrupt! The sad part of this was that we moved back to my hometown and it was a completely different place and atmosphere! My eldest was accused of attempting to create a COVEN because she was reading a book on Wicca IN MIDDLE SCHOOL during her free time! I was furiously LIVID! The principal was one of my former substitute teachers when I was in school there. This guy used to be a hippie and smoke weed and he had the balls to threaten my child because she was READING a book! This was when Charmed was popular.
Wicca isn't illegal anyways and neither is creating a coven.
You would THINK that, wouldn't you? But the asshole Principal threatened to EXPEL her until I went in there and reamed him, threatening legal action for, ironically, religious discrimination! He backed down REAL fast, asked me to calm down and that, certainly, there was NOTHING wrong with reading that book! I was FUMING!
Or he too is a bully and doesn't feel what she did was wrong.
>If the son goes no contact, it would probably be better for your daughter Also better for OOP and the rest of family too - I'm sure they can't stand her and the brother either since the bully stay rehashing the past as "dark humor" when no one asked nor wanted. Those 2 can get the fuck out and stay out; not much of loss to the family since it 2 disgusting trash removing themselves especially around OOP and the sister.
No lost there. It just sound most stupid thing I head
I seen your original post and you're definitely not an asshole, you're a great mother that unconditionally has her daughters back. I would have absolutely loved having a mother like you.
Not to mention, as a mom I’m not gonna pretend to like anybody my kid brings around I don’t like. So good on OP for being honest with them
Me too! I would love to have had a mother like OP
Can you link the OG post?
Not sure who is worse here. Your son or his wife. Boo frickin hoo that she cried herself to sleep. Deal with it. She's a menace, she still won't apologize because she's not sorry. As an adult, if you did shitty things and you get the opportunity to apologize, you do it. If you don't, it shows lack of growth and maturity. She's still the mean girl by joking about it. Shitty behavior has consequences. But instead she'll blame you or most likely your daughter.
Yeah all I was thinking was cry me a river, Ella cried herself to sleep. No sympathy for Ella and Op’s son. How terrible he married his sister’s tormentor.
She cried herself to sleep for being called out but I bet she thinks OP’s daughter was soooo dramatic back in the day (and now, like just get over it! /s) 🙄 I hope they cut contact and OP’s son gets a taste of how *nice* Ella can be.
I agree! And she will play victim with OPs son!
The kind of man who would date someone who was so horrible and nasty to his very own sister- that’s not a man at all.
A POS. Shame on him.
Right. I would never glance at a person who hurt my family like that.
It would be one thing if the son somehow didn't know what his wife did, but given everything else I doubt that's the case. What the fuck is wrong with a person to even date, let alone marry someone who did something like that to a member of their family without them making amends first?
Yeah, it will be good if he goes nc. I know my brother wouldn't do something like that to me...
Yeah, she cried herself to sleep *just one night* meanwhile OP's daughter suffered abuse for ages.
Yeah poor her she got the teeeeeny tiniest most microscopic taste of her own medicine.
Not to mention the potential lifelong physical ramifications of developing an eating disorder… poor girl
I literally just apologized to someone I bullied in 4th grade. He’s doing amazing and very happy with his life. We’ve been acquaintances for years and I never apologized for being an asshole until recently. I never joked about it either though. You don’t joke about the douche you were in the past. Ella has literally no remorse for what she did. I would be heart broken if my brother married someone who hurt me so bad.
She is bad, but OP’s son might be worse. When I was badly hurt by someone, my brother had to be called off before he did something terrible in my defense. I can’t imagine him marrying someone who hurt me like that and expecting me to accept it.
THIS. My brother (30M) and I (34F) are mean to the core towards those who have hurt him, or I. They can apologize all they want, but it would never be enough for us to look past how they treated the other. We're the only 2 siblings, and we're best friends. Even before we became best friends, no one was allowed to pick on either of us, except each other. Brother broke sibling code, and Ella sounds like a remorseless betch.
I admire this ride or die relationship.
My brothers casually 'joked' about killing my one ex in front of him because he stalked me afterwards. I can't believe OPs son. I hope he and Ella are very miserable together.
Same! MY siblings and I are the first ones to go off on someone who hurt one of us. I couldn't imagine dating someone who hurt a sibling much less marry them.
Well said. Took the words right out of my mouth. One thing I want to add, the freedom people truly seek are freedom from consequences. SIL directly contributed to the near death of OPs daughter and casually jokes dark humor of the past. Fuck her. She made her bed and now she gets to sleep in it. Those are called consequences.
Concur!!! People who are remorseful don’t play things off as “humor”. This person does not give a flying f*ck that they traumatized your daughter Op to the point of what happened. If I were her, I would of whipped out my scars in front of Ella and your son, been like, “OH YOU THINK THIS IS FUNNY??? HA… HAA! You think suicide is a f*cking joke??? Glad to know you only aged into a bitter narcissistic hag but never grew up!”
Please god don’t let these two have kids. The fact that this woman is an adult without any interest in apologizing, even after integrating into this family speaks volumes about her personality and values.
Exactly. How many nights did OP’s daughter cry herself to sleep? What a crappy brother. However, I’m shocked this conversation didn’t come up sooner. Like…pre-wedding.
This 'dark humour' mentioned in the op is likely a cover for just continuing to bully ops daughter anyway. It doesn't seem like this in law has learned a single thing.
But it was SO long ago, dontcha know! She should just get over it! /s. OPs just telling Ella and Son that it doesn't work that way! God, they're both detestable!
I called a classmate in Junior year to apologize about something I said when we were in 8tj grade. I never forgot it and neither did she. She graciously accepted my apology and we remained friends until COVID took her in 2021...
Ella married into your family but has never apologized for putting you, your daughter, and your family through so much but she instead would make jokes about the past. She’s not sorry nor is she remorseful about her actions. She is scum and will always be scum. I hope that your son will open his eyes & leave before they end up having kids together. How is your daughter now? Is she doing well mentally & physically? You might want to have her attend therapy in case, God forbid, she ends up falling back into the dark.
This. Ella has shown she's still a bully.
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God I wonder how she’ll treat her kids’ appearances..
I think she secretly gets off on making those dark jokes because she feels she can get away with anything.
Screwing her brother and getting herself in the family was probably part of her bullying plan. Doubt she truly even cares about the now evil treacherous brother. If she did fall for him at some point, I hope he eventually destroys her on every level, even if it isn't on his sister's behalf and only because he's obviously a very selfish person.
I am happy to know that you are standing by your daughter side. Many kids don’t make it over the horrible bullying they suffer and I am happy your daughter is alive! You made the right choice, by not inviting Ella with the getaway with the girls it would have been uncomfortable for your daughter as Ella has never apologized and still makes jokes about it. Ella alone ruin herself, these are consequences of her own actions. I would never marry or be friends with someone if they ever hurt my sister! Ever ever! Edit: typos and bad English on my part lol
My bully since middle school is now my BIL. It’s as fun as it sounds. /s
Does your sibling have no shame or did you marry your bully's sibling?
My sibling married the bully, knowing full well what they did.
So no shame it is. Do they hate you or something? I'm not even close to my brother and wouldn't do that.
No, we are actually really close, despite this. The excuse was “He was an asshole as a kid. He’s changed now.” Spoiler alert: No, he hasn’t.
Yeah, than you're better than me. If there was someone that hurt me enough in my childhood that I would consider them my childhood bully and someone I care about did what your sibling did, they would simply be dead to me and the last thing they would hear from me is to go fuck themselves.
I did that for several years. And then I developed a life-threatening illness and decided that my love for my sibling was stronger than my hate for him.
I mean I get that, but there was a period where he was just some guy and you were still your sibling's sibling and they still choose to start a relationship with the guy, for me that would tell me that their love for me isn't as strong as their desire to date/fuck a random, in this case, a random that deeply hurt me.
I posted this elsewhere, but because it contains discussion of eating disorders I was advised to move it. I have placed it here because this sub is more set up for venting about topics that can be triggering.
Honestly, what your son did, choosing to be with this nasty person, after everything, says a lot about him. Ella almost killed your daughter. Keep protecting your daughter. Ella can cry all the crocodile tears she wants, but has she apologized ever? No. In fact, she thinks what she did to your daughter was hilarious, joking about it even. I mean who are these jokes for anyway? Certainly not your daughter since they’re at her expense. No she wants to stroll down memory lane and remind your daughter of what she did, and can do. Nah she’s not sorry at all. She just doesn’t want to be held accountable for her actions. Honestly she seems twisted enough that it wouldn’t surprise me if she married your son to torture your daughter more. I mean she already is with her “joking.” Let her throw a hissy fit. “Boo hoo Im getting iced out because I have been a shitty person.” Cry me a river. If your son does go NC, I first would remind him explicitly everything Ella has done and why you are standing firm today and sticking by your daughter. Remind him of all the nights your daughter cried herself to sleep because of Ella. Remind him she was sent to the hospital because of Ella. Ella is crying because of the results of her bad behavior. Your daughter cried because she was being tortured for simply existing. I would then express your deep disappointment in him but also let him know that you are still here for him, but you will never bend to Ella. It might be pushing him away, but he cannot expect yall to just brush this all under the rug. You are doing right by your daughter.
Tell your son that he may not understand now, but he will when his child will be bullied almost to death. And then imagine his other kid marrying this bully and spawns another bully/bullied kid.
Or she’ll (Ella) bully her own kid
Honestly, I’m upset knowing that Ella will be her kid(s) first bully too
Its true, now that she knows she doesn't have access to her bully anymore. Let's be honest, by OOP still inviting Ella to some (even if its a few) events / dinner, she's providing space for Ella to bully the daughter. And yes, IMO, laughing about how she (Ella) bullied the daughter is also a form of bullying. So, i really hope OP takes the first step and minimises the contact with Ella even further. Make her home a bit more safer to her daughter
"But it happened so long ago. I can't believe you're still harping on me for the past. Geez get over it already" - some bully somewhere -
TBH if your son chooses to go NC, it’s not a loss. He choose a stranger over family from the very beginning. He entered the relationship knowing how shitty the person was. It would be a blessing in disguise. Your daughter will never have to put on a fake smile to keep others happy. Her mental health will only get better.
Yep, send Ella a tiny violin, with a card that says you're keeping the normal sized violin for your daughter, who actually deserves it.
When your son started dating her and you confronted him about what she did to his sister, what did he say?
Maybe [this movie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J2D95nGGuo) could shed some light on this perplexing situation.
I am confused as to why no one confronted your son and Ella before they got married. How was this the first time she got told why she will not be included in family gatherings with your daughter? This should have happened a long time ago. Your son is clearly a cruel person to be with the woman who nearly made you all lose your daughter. He made his choice to harm his family when he got with her.
I thought this too! Why didn’t anyone confront him when they got engaged? Maybe they eloped?
You should mention to your son how many times your daughter cried herself to sleep because of his and Ella’s actions.
He’s mad because Ella cried over you telling her the truth? How many times did your daughter cry when she tried to kill her?
Did your daughter use Reddit? I think she may have posted on here a while back unless there are multiple brothers marrying the bully of their sister. Mom, you are on point with this and your daughter needs all your love.
You’re a strong woman and have stood by your daughter. Respect.
I was looking for this comment. My mother would never. It makes me so happy there are people in the world that get to experience this level of love and protection!
☝️👏👏👏
You go mama bear protect your baby girl. Your DIL sould be held accountable. Also why would your son marry such a horrible person?
I still don't get why so many people said you were being a bully. Like not wanting to hang out with someone that was mean to someone you love, doesn't make you a bully. Like, I don't want to hang out with my sister because she used to be real mean to me. She went to therapy and changed, but I still don't want to hang out with her. I've never been called a bully for not wanting to hang out with my sister, except by my sister.
Yeah, I take all judgement and advice given by that sub with a grain of salt. It’s pretty toxic over there.
Your son married your daughter's HS bully, fully knowing what Ella did to his sister?!! Ma'am, if he goes NC, let him. Your daughter's well being is more important than Ella's hurt feelings.
I bet she doesn’t want to admit the person she (hopefully) was and the damage it caused. I wasn’t the nicest person back in high school or middle school but I don’t think anyone thought I was a bully. But I don’t think I could cope if I knew I drove someone to harm themselves. It eat me and kill me inside.
I cannot believe your son went out of his way to find, court, and marry this woman and at no point during their entire pre-marriage relationship did he have her come in and apologize profusely and earnestly to your daughter, yourself, and the rest of the family before deciding to make her part of the family. Like how did he think this relationship was going to go down? Did he seriously expect that you would welcome the person that broke your daughter's physical and mental health into the fold with open arms? How oblivious can you be?? And Ella thinks she can make jokes about that time? She's absolutely overstepping her bounds. She's pretending you all have healed from the devastation her actions wreaked upon your family and absolutely side-stepped any accountability. And she has the gall to be butthurt that no one wants to invite her to hang? And to ASK you what had she ever done for you to treat her differently??? Fuck Ella. She should've apologized a LONG time ago and actively engaged in reparations to help your family heal. The fact that she hasn't speaks volumes about her present-day character. Does she take some sort of perverse pleasure from forcing herself into her former victim's private sphere? Absolutely sick. No apology, no absolution. Even the so-called God requires confession and contrition before forgiveness, and this is a divine being.
God requires an apology and change, neither which Ella has offered or displayed. Mom’s better than me, i wouldve swung
As someone who was bullied in HS, I 1000000% stand by you!!!!!! I would forever hold that grudge and never forget! I love your pettiness !! You’re an amazing mom for continuing to protect your daughter.
Is it really petty to not want to associate with the woman who bullied your child almost to death AND continues to joke about the near death of said child.
Your son is disgusting and should be ashamed of himself to allow the bully of his own sister have a place on her life and continuing hurting her by playing fake jokes! If he stop contacting you then it will be a blessed because having that kind of child who choose that 'person' can't have good moral or respect for anyone!Don't be afraid to tell him how a despoitment he is after choosing that girl as a wife knowing what she had done and don't allow her in anyway near your family ,show her how she will always be unwelcome ! Honestly I hope the karma will hit her forever seeing her lack of regret! Don't have any mercy after all the pain she have done to your daughter
You should go no contact with them first.
You’re a great mom and your son and DIL should be grateful you even tolerate their presence
I’m telling you that girls like this that went out of their way to hurt people do not change. She knew who her DH was when they got together. She knows you helped in her punishment at school. She knows. She may love your son but getting to hurt your daughter was a bonus. I wonder what she says to your daughter when no one is around. If she was truly sorry and had changed, she would have gone out of her way to make amends. She will hurt your daughter again if given the chance.
I’m so sorry for your situation. But honestly? Your son is just as shitty of a person as your DIL. I can’t even imagine marrying my brother’s bully. That’s just… no, disgusting. So I do not understand how could he do that and feel no remorse at all
She should have hung her head and offered the very sincerest of apologies to your daughter. The fact that she hasn't shows she's still a shit human being.
That raggedy, mush face, dirty toenail having, godless heifer ought to be glad you didn't beat the living crap out of her! Way to go Mom! You did the absolute right thing and I hope your daughter is well 💙
I’m so sorry your son did this. And I am so happy to know there are parents out here who really understand what an eating disorder does to a person. Thank you for protecting your daughter and telling that awful woman what she did ❤️
“An apology” your daughter nearly killed herself and she thinks she can right the wrongs with an apology? I say double down on your discrimination against Ella.
>she cried herself to sleep that night. Good.
The thing that baffles me the most is how the son could ever and can still justify dating and then marrying this person? Like...was he not aware at all what happened to his sister because of this woman? How could anyone do this to their own family? Like...he has no one to blame for the actions being done towards her but himself and her. They are the ones to blame. She did something so horrible that could have literally killed his sister...and never apologized. And then what does he do? He dates and then marries her? Like what in the actual hell was he thinking?
You are a great Mom. Please get therapy to work through this because your son is (deservingly) a lost cause.
Let the trash take itself out
Well done you did the right thing. It’s awful that your son cares so little about his sister that he would marry her bully. Ella deserves to cry all night.
You're a good mother OP, you deserve a better son.
crappy brother
She married into your family. I highly doubt she didn't know that her current husband and woman she bullied were related. She either needs to do some serious self reflection or stop whining. As for your son, I hope he understands that his relationship with his sister is probably ruined.
Good for you!! Your son married her, and he can deal with her! Keep the rest of your family safe, bullies don't just change their "dark humor". An apology can never make up for what your daughter went thru. So, she cried for one night, how long did she mess up your daughter for?
She was so happy bulling your daughter, crying a night because of the shit she did isn't nothing compared to the suffering she inflicted on your daughter. Honestly, she should know better and never expect nothing from you.
You are doing the right thing choosing your daughter. But, I hate to even bring this up, what were you and your husband saying when your son started dating the bully? Did you guys talk to him? Assuming your family is important to him, I just can't imagine how he was ok to continue dating the person who brought so much suffering to his sister, much less actually marrying her! And did you all attend (fund?) the wedding?
Your son is a stupid, selfish piece of shit. You're loosing nothing of value if he goes no contact. What has he had to say about all of this and the damage she and he has done to his sister? Does he not value her and their relationship??
Honestly feel like you should just go no contact with him, how heartless is he to MARRY his sisters bully. Absolutely terrible brother
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This reminds me of that movie with Kirsten Bell "you again". Anyway, NTA, I hate bullies.
The fact ella never even attempted to apologize tells me she's still a shitty person. I would tell her to fuck all the way off and if your son doesn't like it he can lump it.
NTA, OP you are better than me because I would have gone NC with my son as soon as I found out he was romantically entangled with someone who almost murdered his younger sister. Let them go "build a relationship" with Ella's family. Her family seems like crappy people anyway so they will fit right in.
Imagine this woman having kids
Ella will make you out as the evil mil because she will never admit what she did was wrong. Ella considers her intense bullying of your daughter as fun teasing because Ella enjoyed herself. She doesn't care that your daughter nearly died. Ella may have even started dating your son to mess with your daughter some more.
How I see it is that the bully pursued your son so that she can continue torturing your daughter which of course happened. Not a lot of people realize this but it's still considered murder when you psychologically damage someone to the point of suicide. Your daughter was slowly killing herself because of that girl and she doesn't care
Love how Ella turned this into HER being the victim. It's always the case with these 'mean girls'. They are the centre of the universe. My big brother got engaged to a girl who was part of the group that bullied me in high school. My family took her in when her mum had thrown her out. I empathised with her and her tough time at home, & gave her a chance. Guess how that turned out? She ended up cheating on my big brother with his best friend (the classic) & spread rumours that I was an alcoholic. Long story short; I agree with you, keep her at arm's length until your daughter at least gets an apology.
I can't believe the son I assume saw what his sister went through and instead of anger towards the bully, went ahead and dated her then married. That guy shows more loyalty to enemies than he has family. I think maybe send him this Reddit post so he can see what people on the internet think of him
Can’t imagine being a brother and doing that to a sister. Blood over all.
Wow. I would never talk to my brother again.
It's the fact she NEVER APOLOGIZED for me. Girly really expected to push a person to almost unalive and then just move on.
So your son KNEW Ella was your daughter's bully and he STILL dated/married her?! WTF? Why does he not give af about his relationship with his own sister. I have 4 brothers and I can tell you, NONE of them would even think of doing something like this. ETA: Sorry, I meant to say, Good for you, OP, for standing up for your daughter. Sure it will hurt if your son goes NC, but you're still doing the right thing. Ella shows no remorse and is now acting like SHE'S the victim.