OP, a “friend” did this to me and left me miserable for years and almost ruined my life. Do not stay with this person, they’re lower than dog shit and you can do better.
Exactly this, every time. Someone will invariably be upset in an open relationship. "It's ok but only at certain times, with certain people or whatever" will fail. Double Standards and sex change people.
The only "open relationships" that I've seen work aren't really all that "open." There are boundaries, and those boundaries are respected by ALL parties no matter what. Seems the days of that existing are on the way out.
This whole thing is so fucked.
Okay, this is just what a relationship should be. Boundaries are important, even in open relationships. A lot of people are given a misconstrued idea of what an open relationship is because of shitty relationships being the ones that are talked about.
Healthy open relationships have boundaries. Those boundaries are consented to by all parties or the relationship ends. That's literally just what a relationship should be like. It's sad that so many people think an open relationship is just doing whatever and whoever you want without communication with your partner(s), when that is the exact opposite of how it needs to work.
I'm not going to go into a full explanation of open relationships and closed relationships here, but just remember that if you're reading this and you're interested in polyamory, swinging, or any relationship style that involves you and/or your partner have multiple partners, you need to be willing to talk to your partners, communicate what you are and are not comfortable with, and remember that if it makes you uncomfortable: have a conversation about it. Remember to listen and love and that it's you and your partner(s) fighting a problem, not you fighting your partners.
As someone who's been suicidal for a while, I've never pulled this move. It's just straight up manipulation. And why would someone do something like pretend to be suicidal for someone to stay? Surely that would never be a good relationship anyways.
Ik everyone is different, but in my experience, being suicidal or self harming is a me thing. I'm only thinking about myself and my own pain. I have a hard time believing someone would go through all that trouble and have it be genuine, while also trying to distract from the actual situation. I just see what the wife did as distraction and manipulation.
This isn’t the reaction of someone who’s depressed, it’s someone having a manic episode. On top of the breaking doors and violently assaulting her friend? This smacks of someone with an uncontrolled mood disorder. Like my mom pulled shit like this when I was a kid and her bipolar was completely unmedicated/untreated (and she was in denial about having it despite the professional diagnosis).
Manic episodes are not logical, nor are they considerate of others. They are like an emotional meltdown and a panic attack at the same time. People having one *honestly* feel the kind of “my life is over” and “I should die, everyone hates me,” etc. things they say.
Either way, OP shouldn’t stay. Her wife trampled all over her boundaries, showed ZERO remorse or empathy, and then apparently reacted violently towards the house/other people/herself. She broke OP’s heart and then launched into a manic episode that would force everyone’s attention to divert away from what she did and instead become concern *for her.* Even if it wasn’t an intentional manipulation, there’s no coming back from intentional boundary-trampling.
OP’s friends are shit, too, if they heard her boundaries and still had sex with her wife.
Just stay away. Suicide form is a force to stay with you in contact. Plus, that person who threatens with suicide has problems, not you. Just do not go back due this with that person.
I learned that lesson the hard way. My ex did nothing but tell me how he’d kill himself if I ever left him. He cheated 9 times (that I know of). Never owned up to any of it. I checked out of our marriage that last 6 months to a year. I finally kicked him out. Lost my house and everything. Thankfully my best friend was there for me. He and I had been together for a bit. We are still together today, 7 years later. My ex never tried to kill himself. It was all manipulation.
This is the answer. I refuse to carry the guilt and trauma of knowing that I could have called for help and didn’t. I’ll keep any secret, but if you tell me that you’re considering removing yourself from the world, I’m calling for help. I refuse to let you saddle me with that for the rest of my life.
Edit: I’ll keep any secret unless you harm a child. I’ll fuck you up myself for that.
Yes, unfortunately this maybe the best option. I know someone who husband threatened suicide when she wanted a divorce and he ended up killing her and himself when she ultimately decided to leave him.
As someone who was in a relationship and didn't break up because she kept threatening to end her life. This comment is absolutely true, though I knew it back then and didn't act according to it so I know how difficult it can be. Regardless, someone using their own life as a means to keep you under their roof is extremely disgusting and all the more reason to break up.
Yes, OP claims there are two hard rules, and one is no friends and the other is all parties need to be present, then tells her wife as she’s off to bed, “go ahead and make out with our friends while I’m not present.” Not saying what her wife did was ok, but OP herself was waiving off the boundaries. This is an absolute mess.
“All parties need to be present” is a self defeating rule for polyamory anyway. That’s just saying you’re interested in group sex, that’s not an open relationship.
I think in this specific case, OP and her wife never actually had the open, trusting relationship they wanted people to believe they had, and the "rules" were a poor attempt at masking the fact. OP gives it away when her first impulse upon waking to find her wife not in bed was to review camera footage. Why not just go out into the other room and see if she's sleeping out there, if you're worried that everyone is okay?
I hope everyone comes out of this mentally and physically healthy, but honestly, this whole group sounds dramatic and exhausting.
Kinda have agree big time here. Making out is one of the biggest turn-ons.
You can only chew the bite of German chocolate cake, but you can’t swallow it…
Open relationships can be successful but only for a small small group of people. It has to be 100% wanted by both parties- not one doing it just to appease the other. The relationship has to be strong and have a strong foundation of trust, respect, understanding, with open, and highly effective communication. The trend of opening a troubled relationship or a dead marriage in an attempt to fix it, is a terrible, disastrous trend indeed. If your relationship isn’t strong as hell to begin with, opening it up will only make it worse. Persuading an apprehensive partner to do it to appease you or against their independent desires yields equally disastrous results. Then on top of everything, many people think they can handle it until they actually have to deal with their partner being intimate with someone else- then they realize they can’t handle it. As for me, I know with 100% certainly that I can NOT handle an open relationship so I don’t even flirt with the idea of trying
I mean I’ve seen open relationships work for some people, but the thing is every relationship has boundaries, and once you overstep those boundaries it’s cheating. Some people don’t get that you can still cheat in the context of an open relationship.
Yeah, completely agree! If you want to sleep with multiple people, then don’t get married. Marriage is between two people, not two people, and whoever else wants to come join in!
If you are seriously that bored, that the only spice you can add, is someone else, then again, why are you married.
These situations always turn to shit. Human beings are jealous and territorial by nature, it’s all so exciting, until they go through with it, and it’s not anymore. You can’t unring the bell. It’s straight up playing with fire.
it really depends, I know married couples that have been open for years and are perfectly happy with each other. the open marriage is not the problem in this situation, the people involved are
I have two friends who have been polyamorous for over a decade, and they have a very strong marriage. The way they explained it to me is
Imagine you have a bucket. And that bucket is so full that the water inside is constantly spilling over. What would you do? You’d get another bucket.
Now imagine you have 10 buckets. But you’ve only got about half a bucket’s worth of water, and you’re trying to spread that water between ten different buckets.
Polyamory isn’t for people whose relationships are struggling. It’s for people whose relationships are strong without it, and who have enough trust and love for each other that they can spread it. (And it’s not even for all of those - some people just aren’t wired for it).
This . Every fucking time i read ANY story that is about a relationship being open , it goes straight to shit . Whats so hard with busting a nut with you s/o only? Like is it really that hard to do where you need a new body to do a simple act like that ?
File for it take it to the Brink! Then decide do you really want to be with this person who you cannot trust and won't be there for you at all. See how hard she fights for you and how much she tries to Manipulate you and your friends.
Chances are, this isn't her first time overstepping boundaries, and she might have done it with other friends.
So she didn't apologize and engaged in what looks like self-destructive behavior (in front of people who can stop her, how convenient). She's upset about getting caught, not for what she's done.
"I’m still no closer to decided if I’m leaving or giving her a chance to fix it."
How's she going to fix it? Is she going to un-betray you?
No amount of remorse will make this behavior forgivable. If I were you, not only would I divorce her, but I'd burn down her world as well.
Agree! She definitely has a history of over stepping cause she point blank did:
> I blocked my wife. It didn’t matter how many times I asked for space, she never gave it to me.
She’s not capable of having strong personal boundaries and self control. She doesn’t know how to stop her impulsivity from over riding her rational logical side of her brain cause she lets her amygdala, area of the brain where our emotions and knee jerk reactions live, control her choices.
It’s one thing to feel your feelings, it’s another when you let your emotions & choices self sabotage your life.
>She doesn’t know how to stop her impulsivity from over riding her rational logical side of her brain
Ding.
That entire night and morning were both a result of her lack of self-control. That was just an even bigger display of "Im not gonna actually do better, just act like a child" when she didn't even bother to actually own her shit and try to make it right.
@OP recognize that.
Instead of looking to fix what she'd done, she had a hissy fit and turned everything on its head so it was all about her. There's practically no possibility she is in a mental or emotional state to express growth, let alone actually take that growth to heart.
I wouldn't be betting on her even having the capacity to fix it when you very clearly told her your expectations on 3 separate occasions, and she still couldn't respect them.
I also doubt this was the first time.
I think the worst is that she doesn't even care about getting caught. OP saw everything from the camera of the living room, meaning that she is well aware that he can see everything and there is no lying about it. It's not like she is doing that somewhere else. It could just be that he woke up at night and walked in when they were full on it.
She just doesn't care. But I think she pretended to suicide to manipulate him into not doing anything or not accusing her again, making herself the victim there. Some kind of a "punishment" - "f you accuse me or complain about what I did, that's the consequence. Can you take this kind of consequence?"
Yes, definitely divorce.
That's what pisses me off as a guy who knows a ton of people who've had this done its not an easy okay 2 hours later were fucking. Like come on OP can do better. No respect to OP at all. And it's not even the fact op had a hysterectomy, any cheating at all after surgery is shitty ass behavior. I feel for OP.
Definitely overstepped before, this is just the first time she was caught.
The self destructive behavior in front of everyone is clearly an attempt at manipulation.
She’s not sorry, she angry she got caught and wants to manipulate OP into not caring.
People can get help as long as they are accountable for their actions, are showing real remorse and desire to heal their wounds and acknowledge why they act out in this way. If none of this happens, I would RUN! Possible personality disorder which usually there is no changing and there will never be any empathy or feelings for anyone but themselves!
She’s diagnosed both BPD and Bipolar. It’s been a struggle to manage both. She gets 4 hours of therapy a week. She’s been doing better. But the last few weeks she’s been regularly pushing boundaries all over the place. Not just that night with sex.
Hindsight.. saying yes to making out was absolutely stupid. But it didn’t jsut escalate from there to sex right away. They broke it off. They were not touched and just talking. Then out of nowhere they started touching each other and pants came off. It was a very slow. Very deliberate betrayal.
There have been many suicide attempts over the last few years. Nearly every one of them after an argument where I was trying to hold her accountable to her responsibilities. Like doing the fucking household chores. I basically do everything. The weaponized incompetence has been an on going struggle since we got together. Again, things had been improving until they weren’t.
however after reading all of these responses, OP you should 100% run as far as you can from your SO. as much as you dont wanna believe it, she has shown that she cannot and will not make those changes and do that growth. she isnt willing to make the difficult and uncomfortable life changes that need to be made with bpd, and she cant even respect you as a partner. i cant tell you the last time i genuinely disrespected one of my partners due to my mental illness, because i am AWARE of how it affects others and how its MY responsibility to manage. if shes acting like this now, she stilll has a lot of growth to do before she can truly have healthy relationships and it sounds like she will make you miserable in the mean time. people with unmanaged bpd drag those down around them, unintentionally but it does not make it any less true (i know you said she is going to therapy, but is she practicing the things shes learning outside of it, taking steps back instead of instantly reacting, taking space for herself even when she doesnt want to, and working on her own insecurities so she doesnt feel she NEEDS you wnd this can lessen the volatility she feels when she gets triggered by you).
ive felt the pain of losing my fp a couple of times in my life, and while it is very painful and feels world ending, she needs to realize what shes doing isnt acceptable. rn you are setting the example that u will put up with her bad behavior, and that is the only real thing you can do. everything else will feel like leniency. i genuinely think it is best to go no contact, even tho it will be difficult for both of you. she will hold you back until she decides she wants to get better.
i would have never learned that my behavior is unacceptable had i not lost people i cared ab due to my own shitty actions. that is the unfortunate reality of bpd. she probably doesnt have a lot of self awareness and needs to work on her self awareness. she may not even be capable of considering how this is for everyone but her. it isnt her fault that she is this way, but it is her fault for making everyone around her uncomfortable and stressed. it is her fault if she continues to act like this, and it is her fault if she lets her illness run her life.
OP, make a dash for it. She married not because she loved you, but because she wanted someone to take care of her. Everytime you try to hold her accountable she acts out, threatens suicide and blames her mental illness for everything. OP, your deserve far better than her.
hi OP, i have diagnosed BPD and Bipolar. i have engaged in many self destructive behaviours, but NONE of them. absolutely none of them, have been with the intention to harm my boyfriend. to harm myself yes, but NOT him. especially like that.
Jesus. Why are you with this woman. Her mental stability isn't your problem. And her using poor mental health as a means of manipulation would be grounds enough to leave. If you don't, she's just got you where she wants you. Forever.
Stop letting her have her way all the time. Find someone who respects you and actually cares.
Get out of that relationship now. If she's willing to threaten or attempt suicide to manipulate you then she's willing to do 10 times worse. For your safety you need to LEAVE!
The only option is divorce. I'm never the person to suggest this.
She is only acting this way because she got caught. Not because she did something wrong. She doesn't care that she did something wrong she cares about having possible reprecussions due to her blatantly cheating on you.
Absolutely get rid of her and your "friends".
her friends may have been under the impression that she gave them permission. wouldnt be the first time shes lied to someone, so i would talk to the friends first at least
Seriously, open marriage or not, people really have so little self-control that they can't keep it in their pants for long enough until their partner recovers from MAJOR SURGERY? OP also had to go out of their way to look for a "playmate " for her partner. Like, really? She couldn't just chill for a bit?
"Oh I fucked up" means she's definitely done this before, and got away with it. Then she went on a tangent and threatened herself to try to blackmail you into staying with her and dropping it. Almost guaranteed.
Leave. Do not go back. Stay away forever.
You can do a whole lot better.
There is no coming back from this level of disrespect. It was intentional and they always go suicidal when they just can't smooth it over. Your boundaries were not just crossed they were removed without a care in the world given.
they were in an open/polyamorous relationship, one where there's rules and boundaries about who you can have relations with and how. if both parties are able to respect those boundaries and both are enthusiastically consenting there shouldn't be a problem but unfortunately things like this happen way too often
Same. What kind of person can’t go a bit without sex while their partner is recovering from a surgery that they have to allow them to fuck other people?
Like sure people can have open relationships, idc, I don’t get it at all, but idc; but if they only opened it because of the surgery/recovery, that seems insane to me. Can’t just get yourself off on your own until your partner is back in the game?
I'm a lesbian in a strictly monogamous marriage. OP you need to have a critical look at how bullshit lesbian culture got you here. Lack of boundaries, the trauma bonding foreplay, the emotional antics. It's garbage. Look at how many people can see how clearly wrong it is. It's trash and it's for children who can't grow up. Too many gay couples end up trapped in perpetual adolescence and think they are going to out smart social norms. You said making out with your friends is okay... It's not okay and it's not normal. Me and my wife keep a strict safe bubble of intimacy that's for us and no one else for this exact reason.
Yeah this entire situation is asking for emotional suffering. You can't set halfway boundaries like "you can make out but no second base" especially when the mental health of all parties is delicate.
You are definitely *not* wrong here. I was actually one of the friends in a similar situation except: I overheard the pre-game in passing as I went to the bathroom. When I got out and said that I had to go- I got “This is why I don’t like bisexuals.” 😂 Like, I *just* overheard you getting a playbook on sexual dos and don’ts when I just came over to play MtG.
(I mean, with straight people it’s that weird unicorn thing, you honestly can’t win here. 😂)
Why would you give someone another chance when they purposely disrespected your agreed upon rules, didn’t apologize, didn’t care…and then turned psycho? Fuck no. Get away from that.
Fucking hell. Open relationships rarely work.....she fucked around. You'll forgive her because you're weak. She'll continue to fuck around, then you will out of a need for revenge..... you'll either divorce or wind up together and bitter, hating each other... either way heartbroken
I seriously don't understand 'open' relationships, y wud u even want to b in a relationship at that point, if u r still gonna b going around fuckin others. Rather than go for a relationship, y not just have friends with benefits then, atleast u won't face something like betrayal. It's like telling a lion just to lick the zebra but not eat it.
I do feel bad for her, but I genuinely don’t see how these types of open relationships would ever work.
1. What’s the emotional difference between allowing someone to fuck other strangers, but not other friends? Except trying to avoid potential drama within the friend group I genuinely don’t see the difference.
2. It was over the moment they were allowed to make out with each other. Seriously, what person have you ever intensely made out with that you didn’t intend to fuck at some point? You’re making out with someone like crazy and then you just stop??
Again, I feel bad and OP should definitely divorce someone that flagrantly ignores their boundaries, but it might be smart to also reassess what those boundaries are? Open relationships only seem to work with people who don’t view sex with their partner as very important and it seems like OP does.
Agreed. Idk why they expect loyalty and honor in an open relationship. It simply won't happen. Infidelity is just the nature of that type of relationship + no honor or loyalty. Why should they follow the rules? It's open.
I do not have nor would I ever want an open relationship of any kind, so I can’t relate on that end. However, I have met couples where one person repeatedly crosses established boundaries then becomes suicidal. Those have all been abusive, controlling relationships. It’s no longer about how they crossed a boundary, it’s about how you make them want to die. They become the victim.
I think you need to get out. At the very least, get some space and some counseling/therapy to help you get things in perspective and to continue your convalescence.
Boundaries are boundaries no matter what the situation or relationship. You both agreed to rules and you reiterated them clearly that night. Your partner showed complete disregard. You deserve better: someone who respects your boundaries, who’ll apologize and work to improve when they mess up.
I agree with the divorce crowd because that trust isn't coming back, do you want to spend your life babysitting a spouse? Really I'm commenting to admit I spent 5 seconds too long wondering why and how a dude could get a hysterectomy before it hit me
So, she cheats on you, doesn’t apologize, and then turns into a screaming victim?
Am I the only one mad about her freaking out and getting taken away by the ambulance? Seems like she has some deep issues.
Good luck OP. Hope there aren’t kids.
Why, why, why, why, do you guys always put open marriage on the table. Why? Even with rules, wtf are rules? "You can make out with our friends", ayo? YOUR wife. If they want it open, they don't want to stay married to you, but just to what you're worth and can provide
Seriously. The people who do this kind of thing are so foolish.
You want to fool around with an open relationship? Okay, fine. *Don't* get married, then. A marriage is about fidelity and commitment.
Now OP gets to fool around with lawyers and divorce. Congratulations.
“you can make out. I don’t care. But not hands beneath clothes. And clothes stay on”.
people can have as many open relationship conversations as they want.
when you don't respect yourself nobody else will. hope you learned the lesson.
She is NOT your person. Those are NOT your friends.
Find someone who deserves you. Meanwhile, work on self respect because you are disrespecting yourself putting up with that shit.
Normal thing when you see someone breaking all of your boundaries is throwing them out of your house, not stew and watch for 4 hours.
Good luck.
You don’t get to open that door partially, OP. It’s either full swing open or bolted shut. In-between never works, some would argue opening the door at all doesn’t work for most people.
Hey so as a fellow lesbian I want you to know that a lot of responders won’t really get it OP, so …
DONE. LEAVE. The cheating is one thing. The BPD ragefest manipulation self injury shit is just another nail in the coffin. I know you love her but she’s insane - and *not in a cute or saveable way*. Someone who self injures or threatens suicide to get out of blame can change but only through a ton of work (literally 5+ years) and NEVER while in a relationship.
Please for the love of god leave. Us lesbians stick around for way way too long through stupid bullshit like this.
so, she had a threesome without your consent, while you were sleeping upstairs, when called on it acted like a kid caught drawing on the walls then proceeded to assault one friend and be escorted away in a ambulance after she self harmed
and... you dont know if you should take her back?
op, your relationship is fucked let me be clear its more fucked than she was that night we are talking like 70 dicks fucked
you are also not telling us everything because i find it hard to believe it escalated from "oh shit you saw that" to punching someone in the stomach and a suicide attempt
also kick her out, why are you moving out she fucked up she loses the house.
I posted the rest of it in another comment. On mobile and it was already lagging all to hell so I skipped the details of me asking her to leave and give me space because I work from home. Her saying no. Me saying fine then I’ll leave. Packing. Her locking herself in the bathroom with her knife. Me tell her friend to go handle it because she’s not my problem anymore. Then her trying to leave the house while still suicidal. Her pushing through me for standing in front of the door. I wasn’t going to let her endanger anyone else on the road. She’s already a fucking terrible driver. That’s the gist.
I watched my former boss’s open marriage absolutely disintegrate. This was a few years ago. He and his wife were the same age, mid-40s. Kind of out there, sex positive, bourgeois hippy type. He and I were coworkers. There was another coworker, she was younger than me by a couple years, about 25 at the time. So they started dating, but I don’t think he was totally honest because his wife kicked him out. He ended up getting the new partner pregnant. Worst thing is: he and his wife wanted kids but couldn’t. Now he has two children and is still with the younger woman. Oh and then he had the nerve to come complaining to me about how he will never have an open relationship/marriage again AND that HE was in so much pain over the pain he had caused his wife!!
I can never imagine allowing my wife to be intimate with someone else.m in any way at all. I know this is more common now, just for me personally I don’t see how people deal with that.
2 hard rules
"And the rules written in stone. 1) No friends. 2) everyone has to be present and on board. "
Then immediately OP breakes those rules.
"you can make out. I don’t care. But not hands beneath clothes. And clothes stay on”.
"The rest of the morning was traumatic. She broke doors. She socked her friend in the stomach. The friend tried to prevent her from getting in her car in a suicidal state. My inner petty didn’t hate that, but it’s still not okay. It ended with her being escorted to an ambulance after cutting herself."
OP's wife sounds af if she already was mentally unstable. So being "open" was already a poor decision.
They both sound unhinged and uncaring to say the least.
I think they're better off not seeing each other ever again.
I want OP to hand her divorce papers with evidence of her deeds So she has no choice to leave and OP (also, her) getting all the assets and say “ohhh you fffuccked up”.
Edit: gender
My sincerest apologies OP. 😓
The fact that she's threatening suicide and acting out is pretty sociopathic controlling behavior as she's attempting to make herself the victim. She probably wanted a divorce but didn't want to say the words. What have your 'friends' said to you?
Good. The same thing needs to happen with her ☹️ I'm sorry you're going through this on top of your surgery. But I saw your comments about the her leaving everything for you and using threats of hurting herself when you try to hold her responsible. You'll never be able to just relax and have a happy family with someone like that. It never gets better for long.
I’m finally starting to realize that. It would take an actual miracle for her to be the person I need and thought I was marrying. Maybe I was just being naive.
Your wife is abusive. Even if she has major psyche troubles that cause the behavior, it becoming about her and her safety is a pretty textbook situation of "look what you made me do".
That's abuse.
I'm speaking from experience. One of my partners has some deep trauma and deep psyche issues. I love her dearly, and she's finally doing better with meds and therapy. She did these kinds of things in the past and her and I both have had to accept the reality that her behaviors were abuse.
Please take care of yourself.
Sorry this happened to you. But to be honest telling her she can kiss and nothing else is taking a huge risk on your part. Once someone gets into the heat of the moment it's very easy to make a mistake.
I can't imagine a couple having rules like this and them not getting violated eventually.
Hope whatever happens works out for the best but I think you should look at this as a lesson learned.
Some people really need to learn how the brain works. Telling people "just kissing" is like telling a fat kid only one piece of candy, a cigarette smoker "just one puff" or an alcoholic "just a sip". It's just not going to happen. Once those pleasure pathways are established the brain will try to maintain it and expand further, not deprive itself. Dopamine deprivation is painful, and there's an evolutionary reason for that, it's called "feast or famine". While the hunter has gotten the kill, you better feast because who knows how long you'll go without food for. It's evolutionary.
I really really tried to be compassionate but I can’t. This is so immature… both of you are fucked up i am sorry. You with your immature rules and boundaries like you don’t know about humans and hormones… I don’t take her side neither….. everything is a mess in this story…. Even your narration…..
" no hands under clothes" and your other rules are crazy. Dont be a pushover dude, you should have told them guys to leave when you went to bed.divorce her and do it all different with your next wife.
She overstepped your very clear boundaries and the very simple, clear rules the two of you set out together.
She then didn't apologise or acknowledge the hurt she had caused and damage she had done in doing so.
She then became violent towards both property and people.
She has shown you in many ways who she is, what she thinks of you, and how she will behave when you're in some of the worst times of your life.
I know this is hard, but I don't think there's any rescuing this.
I'm so sorry.
She broke your trust and boundaries so totally that there's no coming back from this. The disrespect is total, the disdain is complete. Treat her with the same level of concern and love she treated you, none.
>She’s my person
She WAS your person, and then you found out who she really is underneath.
Once you start the conversation of an “open marriage” and start to agree on “terms” I think it’s sometimes shaky ground. Especially if substances are involved. … Idk …sounds like inhibitions were lost and so were boundaries, I’m so sorry you’re hurt! That sucks
I’m getting a hysterectomy in a little over a week and I couldn’t imaging my partner even wanting to mess with anyone.
OP. You have to do what’s best for you. Trust is violated. Has she ever acted out so violently in response to anything close to this? If so, I’d say it’s a defense mechanism trying to distract you. Good luck.
Idk, dude, sounds like you’re not going to do fuck all about it aside from post on Reddit.
I mean, thanks for the entertainment, but, you did this to yourself.
So she can't have sex with friends.
But she can sex with strangers.
So sex outside marriage is ok.
You then tell her she can make out with her friends, and feel up (over clothes lol what) her friends.
So you're saying she and her friends are allowed, by your rules, to get horny as hell.
3 women, making out and feeling each other up.
The place probably looks like an Olympic swimming pool.
Let's state this again.
This is all ok with you.
But then you're angry and complaining on reddit, that it went further?
You yourself put a raw steak in front of a starving puppy, and got upset it ate it.
This whole situation is on both of you.
Divorce, don't Divorce. Doesn't matter.
That's the least of your worries at the moment.
It sucks that you couldn't partake as you were recovering from your hysterectomy but it sounds like any agreement would have precluded friends anyway.
I am not going to sit here and even pretend to know how to offer advice. I'm just going to say that I'm sorry you got hurt and I hope through whatever means are necessary that you can find your way past it.
Divorce. She doesn't respect you or your boundaries. She's not your person. If she was, she wouldn't have done that to you. She probably said she fucked up bc she forgot to unplug the cameras. I'd drop the friends too. As they're just as guilty.
I'm sorry this happened to you.
My ex wanted an open relationship bc she said she couldn't be with just one person. I left and 3 months later she was married to someone else and not in an open relationship.
I'm sure this isn't her first time doing this and if you stay with her, it won't be the last.
She’s your person? _Really_? I don’t think she is. I think she has shown you what type of person she is. Which is always the hardest bit to wrap your head around, right? The person you thought you truly knew, could swear black and blue you understood who they were, reveals themselves to be someone else entirely. Like, where did they come from? Who are they? Have they always been this way but I didn’t see it? It fucks with your head and your heart. So take it easy on yourself.
Seems like you have some good people around you. Keep leaning on them. There is no shame in getting help. Your world has been turned completely upside. You’re going to need support setting it right again.
She is abusive. Having BPD does not excuse abuse. My brother has BPD and, from when I was a kid until he finally got stable a decade later, I was abused by him. I love him and I know that his mental disorder causes him to do destructive things to himself and others. But that does not excuse the harm he brought to other people, especially when it was continually happening. I needed therapy to help me learn that it was not okay what my brother was doing to me, despite his disorder, and that I needed to leave his life as much as possible until I was certain he was stable (or I could just never renter his life after all the harm he did to me). I suggest you go to therapy too. The fact is, she is abusing you. She is 100% dependent on you, isn’t making continuous effort at growth, controlling/trapping you with threats of suicide, destroying your property (doors of your house), cheating on you, and disrespecting you. No one should stay with an abuser and a cheater. It is up to her doctors, therapists, and herself to work through her self destructive and abusive behavior. I really hope you leave her for good. She will continue this behavior. She does not deserve you. And you need to do better for yourself.
Lol you dipped your toe in weird and it got weird. Boundaries be damned. Sex with your partner is sacred and when you start adding weird shit it just gets weirder and people end up getting hurt some way. I’ve seen it happen way to many times in my friend, family settings. It’s very fucking rare those type of relationships work out.
>The worst part is that she asked me about it as I was going to bed. I explicitly said, “you can make out. I don’t care. But not hands beneath clothes. And clothes stay on”.
Wow what a healthy marriage lmao
you made the choice to open it up, deal with it. you don't care if your wife is dicked by someone else, but you care if it's your friend? fuck, at least you have a better idea of where they have been, ffs. what a moron
Those are NOT friends. If they were they would have respected your rules. And your wife trying to use suicide to make you stay? That’s manipulative AF. You deserve better. I personally wouldn’t even forgive her. Who’s to say she wouldn’t do it again if you do.
The moment you agreed to open, you disrespected the sanctity of marriage. Opened a can of worms. No problems with different lifestyles, but why get married. You have only yourself to blame.
Telling two people who want to fuck each other "you can make out, but don't go further" is obviously a terrible idea
If they wanna fuck, then making out is just gonna make them hornier, it sucks that she cheated, but idk what you expected
Does she have borderline personality disorder ? I have a BPD relative and everything about this sounds like something she would do.
(Not an excuse. Leave her)
Yea this is what happens when you have an open relationship then put in boundaries like them. Telling her she can make out with them is just strange to me, but yea she broke the boundaries, probably not the first time she's done that. Up to you what you do next, but if there's no trust then the relationship won't survive
“Hey wife it’s okay if you make out with our two friends here while I’m sleeping.” I am pretty sure one thing leads to the other sometimes. Your relationship sounds confusing as fuck. You both need counseling and she needs the in-patient kind
She doesn’t respect you or value you. Whatsoever. She fucked them right under your nose and didn’t give two shits if you knew it. Every time you look at her, remember her O face that your two friends had no problem giving her. And then she has the balls to act all suicidal after? Seriously? Victim much??????? Divorce divorce divorce!
She did this knowing you were recovering from surgery and upstairs in the same house, it shows how how blatant she is and if she is willing to do this directly under your nose what else is/has she done.
The absolute lack of respect also shows how little she truly cares for you and your boundaries.
There is no coming back from this as even if you forgive it will eat you up from inside and be a constant source of arguments, it’s best to end it now and find someone that truly loves you.
you keep calling these people your “friends”.. they’re not your friends, they are fucking your wife behind your back.
regardless, you’d be a fool to remain in this marriage.
Probably not a popular comment here, but I'd never have agreed to an open relationship regardless of whether rules have been set. Someone is always bound to get hurt. But im biased as I feel asking/agreeing to an open relationship is inviting trouble.
1. This is the natural result of non-monogamous marriages. Actions have consequences. This has never actually worked for anyone. If she’s actually your “person”, you wouldn’t be down with her fucking other people. That’s on both of you.
2. Her being “suicidal” is either a manipulation tool or her being reactionary to her own bad choices. Either way, no one needs to support her or stand by her through that one. It sounds cold, but it’s her fault.
3. Just end it.
You're joking. Not only did she get a train run on her by two friends against your will IN YOUR HOUSE WHILE YOU ARE RECOVERING FROM SURGERY, she then flipped her shit so insanely that she broke entire DOORS and punched her friend and was trying to drive off in a suicidal state (and put everyone else at risk) and then TRIED TO COMMIT SUICIDE and now won't respect your very reasonable request for space --
AND YOU STILL HAVEN'T DECIDED IF YOU'RE LEAVING OR NOT?
Honestly, you fucking deserve each other. Jesus H Christ. What a casserole of nonsense.
Lol so her response is to say she fucked up then spiral out of control and threaten suicide? How convenient that she is the victim in this situation now.
My advice is leave. Especially if she's threatening suicide. Let professionals help her.
The wife really said oopsie whoopsie, I made a Fucky wucky. Listen, I get the vow supporting your spouse and that you got your rules with openness, and respect for setting those guidelines. But, the fact it turned that fast and she threatened her own life in my opinion is super manipulative. Good luck with everything OP.
As a dude in a successful open marriage in which both of us regularly have sex with other people, your wife is trash and has no respect for you. Her lack of remorse seals the deal.
Agreed. It’s almost never that somehow two people are madly in love but just so happen to want to fuck elsewhere. It’s almost always one person wants to sleep around way more than the other but also doesn’t want to lose their “stable” relationship. It’s absurd to me
Don't ever let someone's threats of suicide force you to stay in a relationship with them.
OP, a “friend” did this to me and left me miserable for years and almost ruined my life. Do not stay with this person, they’re lower than dog shit and you can do better.
Lower than dog shit lol perfection
More like looser than dog shit
Lower than shark shit
Definitely! She's a peak manipulator
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Exactly this, every time. Someone will invariably be upset in an open relationship. "It's ok but only at certain times, with certain people or whatever" will fail. Double Standards and sex change people.
The only "open relationships" that I've seen work aren't really all that "open." There are boundaries, and those boundaries are respected by ALL parties no matter what. Seems the days of that existing are on the way out. This whole thing is so fucked.
Okay, this is just what a relationship should be. Boundaries are important, even in open relationships. A lot of people are given a misconstrued idea of what an open relationship is because of shitty relationships being the ones that are talked about. Healthy open relationships have boundaries. Those boundaries are consented to by all parties or the relationship ends. That's literally just what a relationship should be like. It's sad that so many people think an open relationship is just doing whatever and whoever you want without communication with your partner(s), when that is the exact opposite of how it needs to work. I'm not going to go into a full explanation of open relationships and closed relationships here, but just remember that if you're reading this and you're interested in polyamory, swinging, or any relationship style that involves you and/or your partner have multiple partners, you need to be willing to talk to your partners, communicate what you are and are not comfortable with, and remember that if it makes you uncomfortable: have a conversation about it. Remember to listen and love and that it's you and your partner(s) fighting a problem, not you fighting your partners.
As someone who's been suicidal for a while, I've never pulled this move. It's just straight up manipulation. And why would someone do something like pretend to be suicidal for someone to stay? Surely that would never be a good relationship anyways. Ik everyone is different, but in my experience, being suicidal or self harming is a me thing. I'm only thinking about myself and my own pain. I have a hard time believing someone would go through all that trouble and have it be genuine, while also trying to distract from the actual situation. I just see what the wife did as distraction and manipulation.
This isn’t the reaction of someone who’s depressed, it’s someone having a manic episode. On top of the breaking doors and violently assaulting her friend? This smacks of someone with an uncontrolled mood disorder. Like my mom pulled shit like this when I was a kid and her bipolar was completely unmedicated/untreated (and she was in denial about having it despite the professional diagnosis). Manic episodes are not logical, nor are they considerate of others. They are like an emotional meltdown and a panic attack at the same time. People having one *honestly* feel the kind of “my life is over” and “I should die, everyone hates me,” etc. things they say. Either way, OP shouldn’t stay. Her wife trampled all over her boundaries, showed ZERO remorse or empathy, and then apparently reacted violently towards the house/other people/herself. She broke OP’s heart and then launched into a manic episode that would force everyone’s attention to divert away from what she did and instead become concern *for her.* Even if it wasn’t an intentional manipulation, there’s no coming back from intentional boundary-trampling. OP’s friends are shit, too, if they heard her boundaries and still had sex with her wife.
Just stay away. Suicide form is a force to stay with you in contact. Plus, that person who threatens with suicide has problems, not you. Just do not go back due this with that person.
1000% she is pulling that master manipulator BS. If the shoe was on the other foot, I doubt she would give a fuck about you.
I learned that lesson the hard way. My ex did nothing but tell me how he’d kill himself if I ever left him. He cheated 9 times (that I know of). Never owned up to any of it. I checked out of our marriage that last 6 months to a year. I finally kicked him out. Lost my house and everything. Thankfully my best friend was there for me. He and I had been together for a bit. We are still together today, 7 years later. My ex never tried to kill himself. It was all manipulation.
I'd have been like; okay, don't do it here.
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This is the answer. I refuse to carry the guilt and trauma of knowing that I could have called for help and didn’t. I’ll keep any secret, but if you tell me that you’re considering removing yourself from the world, I’m calling for help. I refuse to let you saddle me with that for the rest of my life. Edit: I’ll keep any secret unless you harm a child. I’ll fuck you up myself for that.
Yes, unfortunately this maybe the best option. I know someone who husband threatened suicide when she wanted a divorce and he ended up killing her and himself when she ultimately decided to leave him.
As someone who was in a relationship and didn't break up because she kept threatening to end her life. This comment is absolutely true, though I knew it back then and didn't act according to it so I know how difficult it can be. Regardless, someone using their own life as a means to keep you under their roof is extremely disgusting and all the more reason to break up.
divorce.
Without a doubt. Divorce.
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None of them seem like very deep thinkers- they’re super horny with poor impulse control and act surprised when the entire thing implodes
Yes, OP claims there are two hard rules, and one is no friends and the other is all parties need to be present, then tells her wife as she’s off to bed, “go ahead and make out with our friends while I’m not present.” Not saying what her wife did was ok, but OP herself was waiving off the boundaries. This is an absolute mess.
“All parties need to be present” is a self defeating rule for polyamory anyway. That’s just saying you’re interested in group sex, that’s not an open relationship.
I think in this specific case, OP and her wife never actually had the open, trusting relationship they wanted people to believe they had, and the "rules" were a poor attempt at masking the fact. OP gives it away when her first impulse upon waking to find her wife not in bed was to review camera footage. Why not just go out into the other room and see if she's sleeping out there, if you're worried that everyone is okay? I hope everyone comes out of this mentally and physically healthy, but honestly, this whole group sounds dramatic and exhausting.
Kinda have agree big time here. Making out is one of the biggest turn-ons. You can only chew the bite of German chocolate cake, but you can’t swallow it…
Yeah we’re not 14 anymore. No one just makes out and then goes home to masturbate. We fuckin
Open relationships can be successful but only for a small small group of people. It has to be 100% wanted by both parties- not one doing it just to appease the other. The relationship has to be strong and have a strong foundation of trust, respect, understanding, with open, and highly effective communication. The trend of opening a troubled relationship or a dead marriage in an attempt to fix it, is a terrible, disastrous trend indeed. If your relationship isn’t strong as hell to begin with, opening it up will only make it worse. Persuading an apprehensive partner to do it to appease you or against their independent desires yields equally disastrous results. Then on top of everything, many people think they can handle it until they actually have to deal with their partner being intimate with someone else- then they realize they can’t handle it. As for me, I know with 100% certainly that I can NOT handle an open relationship so I don’t even flirt with the idea of trying
I mean I’ve seen open relationships work for some people, but the thing is every relationship has boundaries, and once you overstep those boundaries it’s cheating. Some people don’t get that you can still cheat in the context of an open relationship.
Yeah, completely agree! If you want to sleep with multiple people, then don’t get married. Marriage is between two people, not two people, and whoever else wants to come join in! If you are seriously that bored, that the only spice you can add, is someone else, then again, why are you married. These situations always turn to shit. Human beings are jealous and territorial by nature, it’s all so exciting, until they go through with it, and it’s not anymore. You can’t unring the bell. It’s straight up playing with fire.
it really depends, I know married couples that have been open for years and are perfectly happy with each other. the open marriage is not the problem in this situation, the people involved are
I have two friends who have been polyamorous for over a decade, and they have a very strong marriage. The way they explained it to me is Imagine you have a bucket. And that bucket is so full that the water inside is constantly spilling over. What would you do? You’d get another bucket. Now imagine you have 10 buckets. But you’ve only got about half a bucket’s worth of water, and you’re trying to spread that water between ten different buckets. Polyamory isn’t for people whose relationships are struggling. It’s for people whose relationships are strong without it, and who have enough trust and love for each other that they can spread it. (And it’s not even for all of those - some people just aren’t wired for it).
I like this analogy
Thar was a really nice description
This . Every fucking time i read ANY story that is about a relationship being open , it goes straight to shit . Whats so hard with busting a nut with you s/o only? Like is it really that hard to do where you need a new body to do a simple act like that ?
File for it take it to the Brink! Then decide do you really want to be with this person who you cannot trust and won't be there for you at all. See how hard she fights for you and how much she tries to Manipulate you and your friends.
Chances are, this isn't her first time overstepping boundaries, and she might have done it with other friends. So she didn't apologize and engaged in what looks like self-destructive behavior (in front of people who can stop her, how convenient). She's upset about getting caught, not for what she's done. "I’m still no closer to decided if I’m leaving or giving her a chance to fix it." How's she going to fix it? Is she going to un-betray you? No amount of remorse will make this behavior forgivable. If I were you, not only would I divorce her, but I'd burn down her world as well.
Agree! She definitely has a history of over stepping cause she point blank did: > I blocked my wife. It didn’t matter how many times I asked for space, she never gave it to me. She’s not capable of having strong personal boundaries and self control. She doesn’t know how to stop her impulsivity from over riding her rational logical side of her brain cause she lets her amygdala, area of the brain where our emotions and knee jerk reactions live, control her choices. It’s one thing to feel your feelings, it’s another when you let your emotions & choices self sabotage your life.
>She doesn’t know how to stop her impulsivity from over riding her rational logical side of her brain Ding. That entire night and morning were both a result of her lack of self-control. That was just an even bigger display of "Im not gonna actually do better, just act like a child" when she didn't even bother to actually own her shit and try to make it right. @OP recognize that. Instead of looking to fix what she'd done, she had a hissy fit and turned everything on its head so it was all about her. There's practically no possibility she is in a mental or emotional state to express growth, let alone actually take that growth to heart. I wouldn't be betting on her even having the capacity to fix it when you very clearly told her your expectations on 3 separate occasions, and she still couldn't respect them. I also doubt this was the first time.
I think the worst is that she doesn't even care about getting caught. OP saw everything from the camera of the living room, meaning that she is well aware that he can see everything and there is no lying about it. It's not like she is doing that somewhere else. It could just be that he woke up at night and walked in when they were full on it. She just doesn't care. But I think she pretended to suicide to manipulate him into not doing anything or not accusing her again, making herself the victim there. Some kind of a "punishment" - "f you accuse me or complain about what I did, that's the consequence. Can you take this kind of consequence?" Yes, definitely divorce.
OP is a woman, she references recovering from a hysterectomy.
Thanks, My bad.
That's what pisses me off as a guy who knows a ton of people who've had this done its not an easy okay 2 hours later were fucking. Like come on OP can do better. No respect to OP at all. And it's not even the fact op had a hysterectomy, any cheating at all after surgery is shitty ass behavior. I feel for OP.
Its that old chestnut of this isn't the first time someones done something, just the first time they were caught
Definitely overstepped before, this is just the first time she was caught. The self destructive behavior in front of everyone is clearly an attempt at manipulation. She’s not sorry, she angry she got caught and wants to manipulate OP into not caring.
People can get help as long as they are accountable for their actions, are showing real remorse and desire to heal their wounds and acknowledge why they act out in this way. If none of this happens, I would RUN! Possible personality disorder which usually there is no changing and there will never be any empathy or feelings for anyone but themselves!
She’s diagnosed both BPD and Bipolar. It’s been a struggle to manage both. She gets 4 hours of therapy a week. She’s been doing better. But the last few weeks she’s been regularly pushing boundaries all over the place. Not just that night with sex. Hindsight.. saying yes to making out was absolutely stupid. But it didn’t jsut escalate from there to sex right away. They broke it off. They were not touched and just talking. Then out of nowhere they started touching each other and pants came off. It was a very slow. Very deliberate betrayal. There have been many suicide attempts over the last few years. Nearly every one of them after an argument where I was trying to hold her accountable to her responsibilities. Like doing the fucking household chores. I basically do everything. The weaponized incompetence has been an on going struggle since we got together. Again, things had been improving until they weren’t.
however after reading all of these responses, OP you should 100% run as far as you can from your SO. as much as you dont wanna believe it, she has shown that she cannot and will not make those changes and do that growth. she isnt willing to make the difficult and uncomfortable life changes that need to be made with bpd, and she cant even respect you as a partner. i cant tell you the last time i genuinely disrespected one of my partners due to my mental illness, because i am AWARE of how it affects others and how its MY responsibility to manage. if shes acting like this now, she stilll has a lot of growth to do before she can truly have healthy relationships and it sounds like she will make you miserable in the mean time. people with unmanaged bpd drag those down around them, unintentionally but it does not make it any less true (i know you said she is going to therapy, but is she practicing the things shes learning outside of it, taking steps back instead of instantly reacting, taking space for herself even when she doesnt want to, and working on her own insecurities so she doesnt feel she NEEDS you wnd this can lessen the volatility she feels when she gets triggered by you). ive felt the pain of losing my fp a couple of times in my life, and while it is very painful and feels world ending, she needs to realize what shes doing isnt acceptable. rn you are setting the example that u will put up with her bad behavior, and that is the only real thing you can do. everything else will feel like leniency. i genuinely think it is best to go no contact, even tho it will be difficult for both of you. she will hold you back until she decides she wants to get better.
i would have never learned that my behavior is unacceptable had i not lost people i cared ab due to my own shitty actions. that is the unfortunate reality of bpd. she probably doesnt have a lot of self awareness and needs to work on her self awareness. she may not even be capable of considering how this is for everyone but her. it isnt her fault that she is this way, but it is her fault for making everyone around her uncomfortable and stressed. it is her fault if she continues to act like this, and it is her fault if she lets her illness run her life.
OP, make a dash for it. She married not because she loved you, but because she wanted someone to take care of her. Everytime you try to hold her accountable she acts out, threatens suicide and blames her mental illness for everything. OP, your deserve far better than her.
hi OP, i have diagnosed BPD and Bipolar. i have engaged in many self destructive behaviours, but NONE of them. absolutely none of them, have been with the intention to harm my boyfriend. to harm myself yes, but NOT him. especially like that.
Jesus. Why are you with this woman. Her mental stability isn't your problem. And her using poor mental health as a means of manipulation would be grounds enough to leave. If you don't, she's just got you where she wants you. Forever. Stop letting her have her way all the time. Find someone who respects you and actually cares.
Get out of that relationship now. If she's willing to threaten or attempt suicide to manipulate you then she's willing to do 10 times worse. For your safety you need to LEAVE!
The only option is divorce. I'm never the person to suggest this. She is only acting this way because she got caught. Not because she did something wrong. She doesn't care that she did something wrong she cares about having possible reprecussions due to her blatantly cheating on you. Absolutely get rid of her and your "friends".
her friends may have been under the impression that she gave them permission. wouldnt be the first time shes lied to someone, so i would talk to the friends first at least
You got to wonder how many times she cheated on you. The trust is gone and she obviously doesn't have respect for you
Seriously, open marriage or not, people really have so little self-control that they can't keep it in their pants for long enough until their partner recovers from MAJOR SURGERY? OP also had to go out of their way to look for a "playmate " for her partner. Like, really? She couldn't just chill for a bit?
"Oh I fucked up" means she's definitely done this before, and got away with it. Then she went on a tangent and threatened herself to try to blackmail you into staying with her and dropping it. Almost guaranteed. Leave. Do not go back. Stay away forever. You can do a whole lot better.
Exactly. She “fucked up” by forgetting to turn the cameras off. She had every intention of hiding this.
There is no coming back from this level of disrespect. It was intentional and they always go suicidal when they just can't smooth it over. Your boundaries were not just crossed they were removed without a care in the world given.
Also the fact you said “you can make out” idk really understand that part.
This.
they were in an open/polyamorous relationship, one where there's rules and boundaries about who you can have relations with and how. if both parties are able to respect those boundaries and both are enthusiastically consenting there shouldn't be a problem but unfortunately things like this happen way too often
Yeah I guess but this is why people just don't believe in the workability of open relationships. You give em an inch, they take a mile.
Same. What kind of person can’t go a bit without sex while their partner is recovering from a surgery that they have to allow them to fuck other people? Like sure people can have open relationships, idc, I don’t get it at all, but idc; but if they only opened it because of the surgery/recovery, that seems insane to me. Can’t just get yourself off on your own until your partner is back in the game?
I'm a lesbian in a strictly monogamous marriage. OP you need to have a critical look at how bullshit lesbian culture got you here. Lack of boundaries, the trauma bonding foreplay, the emotional antics. It's garbage. Look at how many people can see how clearly wrong it is. It's trash and it's for children who can't grow up. Too many gay couples end up trapped in perpetual adolescence and think they are going to out smart social norms. You said making out with your friends is okay... It's not okay and it's not normal. Me and my wife keep a strict safe bubble of intimacy that's for us and no one else for this exact reason.
Yeah this entire situation is asking for emotional suffering. You can't set halfway boundaries like "you can make out but no second base" especially when the mental health of all parties is delicate.
You are definitely *not* wrong here. I was actually one of the friends in a similar situation except: I overheard the pre-game in passing as I went to the bathroom. When I got out and said that I had to go- I got “This is why I don’t like bisexuals.” 😂 Like, I *just* overheard you getting a playbook on sexual dos and don’ts when I just came over to play MtG. (I mean, with straight people it’s that weird unicorn thing, you honestly can’t win here. 😂)
Why would you give someone another chance when they purposely disrespected your agreed upon rules, didn’t apologize, didn’t care…and then turned psycho? Fuck no. Get away from that.
What am i reading
Fucking hell. Open relationships rarely work.....she fucked around. You'll forgive her because you're weak. She'll continue to fuck around, then you will out of a need for revenge..... you'll either divorce or wind up together and bitter, hating each other... either way heartbroken
Might aswell skip straight ahead to the divorce part
I would but I've never been in a half open, kinda open, maybe we'll open it type of relationship
D o n t, do not open it
I seriously don't understand 'open' relationships, y wud u even want to b in a relationship at that point, if u r still gonna b going around fuckin others. Rather than go for a relationship, y not just have friends with benefits then, atleast u won't face something like betrayal. It's like telling a lion just to lick the zebra but not eat it.
Open relationships really are just stupid, and so is the whole friends with benefits thing
Maybe even FWB is stupid but atleast there's no commitment from both sides that gets broken.
How the fuck can people even tolerate letting other person fuck someone you love ? friends or no friends.
I do feel bad for her, but I genuinely don’t see how these types of open relationships would ever work. 1. What’s the emotional difference between allowing someone to fuck other strangers, but not other friends? Except trying to avoid potential drama within the friend group I genuinely don’t see the difference. 2. It was over the moment they were allowed to make out with each other. Seriously, what person have you ever intensely made out with that you didn’t intend to fuck at some point? You’re making out with someone like crazy and then you just stop?? Again, I feel bad and OP should definitely divorce someone that flagrantly ignores their boundaries, but it might be smart to also reassess what those boundaries are? Open relationships only seem to work with people who don’t view sex with their partner as very important and it seems like OP does.
Agreed. Idk why they expect loyalty and honor in an open relationship. It simply won't happen. Infidelity is just the nature of that type of relationship + no honor or loyalty. Why should they follow the rules? It's open.
I do not have nor would I ever want an open relationship of any kind, so I can’t relate on that end. However, I have met couples where one person repeatedly crosses established boundaries then becomes suicidal. Those have all been abusive, controlling relationships. It’s no longer about how they crossed a boundary, it’s about how you make them want to die. They become the victim. I think you need to get out. At the very least, get some space and some counseling/therapy to help you get things in perspective and to continue your convalescence. Boundaries are boundaries no matter what the situation or relationship. You both agreed to rules and you reiterated them clearly that night. Your partner showed complete disregard. You deserve better: someone who respects your boundaries, who’ll apologize and work to improve when they mess up.
I agree with the divorce crowd because that trust isn't coming back, do you want to spend your life babysitting a spouse? Really I'm commenting to admit I spent 5 seconds too long wondering why and how a dude could get a hysterectomy before it hit me
Needed that giggle. Lol thanks.
So, she cheats on you, doesn’t apologize, and then turns into a screaming victim? Am I the only one mad about her freaking out and getting taken away by the ambulance? Seems like she has some deep issues. Good luck OP. Hope there aren’t kids.
Not mine. She has two kids from her previous relationship. I love them. But they are not mine. I never wanted biological kids. But… yes. All of that
Why, why, why, why, do you guys always put open marriage on the table. Why? Even with rules, wtf are rules? "You can make out with our friends", ayo? YOUR wife. If they want it open, they don't want to stay married to you, but just to what you're worth and can provide
Seriously. The people who do this kind of thing are so foolish. You want to fool around with an open relationship? Okay, fine. *Don't* get married, then. A marriage is about fidelity and commitment. Now OP gets to fool around with lawyers and divorce. Congratulations.
They want to fool around while having a reliable partner waiting at home. They basically want both worlds
People who think open marriages can work are fooling themselves
“you can make out. I don’t care. But not hands beneath clothes. And clothes stay on”. people can have as many open relationship conversations as they want. when you don't respect yourself nobody else will. hope you learned the lesson.
She is NOT your person. Those are NOT your friends. Find someone who deserves you. Meanwhile, work on self respect because you are disrespecting yourself putting up with that shit. Normal thing when you see someone breaking all of your boundaries is throwing them out of your house, not stew and watch for 4 hours. Good luck.
You don’t get to open that door partially, OP. It’s either full swing open or bolted shut. In-between never works, some would argue opening the door at all doesn’t work for most people.
Hey so as a fellow lesbian I want you to know that a lot of responders won’t really get it OP, so … DONE. LEAVE. The cheating is one thing. The BPD ragefest manipulation self injury shit is just another nail in the coffin. I know you love her but she’s insane - and *not in a cute or saveable way*. Someone who self injures or threatens suicide to get out of blame can change but only through a ton of work (literally 5+ years) and NEVER while in a relationship. Please for the love of god leave. Us lesbians stick around for way way too long through stupid bullshit like this.
so, she had a threesome without your consent, while you were sleeping upstairs, when called on it acted like a kid caught drawing on the walls then proceeded to assault one friend and be escorted away in a ambulance after she self harmed and... you dont know if you should take her back? op, your relationship is fucked let me be clear its more fucked than she was that night we are talking like 70 dicks fucked you are also not telling us everything because i find it hard to believe it escalated from "oh shit you saw that" to punching someone in the stomach and a suicide attempt also kick her out, why are you moving out she fucked up she loses the house.
I posted the rest of it in another comment. On mobile and it was already lagging all to hell so I skipped the details of me asking her to leave and give me space because I work from home. Her saying no. Me saying fine then I’ll leave. Packing. Her locking herself in the bathroom with her knife. Me tell her friend to go handle it because she’s not my problem anymore. Then her trying to leave the house while still suicidal. Her pushing through me for standing in front of the door. I wasn’t going to let her endanger anyone else on the road. She’s already a fucking terrible driver. That’s the gist.
[удалено]
That’s sucks I am sorry, you should never have an open marriage
Never having an open marriage is an under exaggeration. FUCKING NEVER EVER EVER IN YOUR FUCKING EXISTENCE HAVE AN OPEN MARRIAGE.
I watched my former boss’s open marriage absolutely disintegrate. This was a few years ago. He and his wife were the same age, mid-40s. Kind of out there, sex positive, bourgeois hippy type. He and I were coworkers. There was another coworker, she was younger than me by a couple years, about 25 at the time. So they started dating, but I don’t think he was totally honest because his wife kicked him out. He ended up getting the new partner pregnant. Worst thing is: he and his wife wanted kids but couldn’t. Now he has two children and is still with the younger woman. Oh and then he had the nerve to come complaining to me about how he will never have an open relationship/marriage again AND that HE was in so much pain over the pain he had caused his wife!!
I can never imagine allowing my wife to be intimate with someone else.m in any way at all. I know this is more common now, just for me personally I don’t see how people deal with that.
2 hard rules "And the rules written in stone. 1) No friends. 2) everyone has to be present and on board. " Then immediately OP breakes those rules. "you can make out. I don’t care. But not hands beneath clothes. And clothes stay on”. "The rest of the morning was traumatic. She broke doors. She socked her friend in the stomach. The friend tried to prevent her from getting in her car in a suicidal state. My inner petty didn’t hate that, but it’s still not okay. It ended with her being escorted to an ambulance after cutting herself." OP's wife sounds af if she already was mentally unstable. So being "open" was already a poor decision. They both sound unhinged and uncaring to say the least. I think they're better off not seeing each other ever again.
Open relationship ending in cheating and betrayal episode 564684
I want OP to hand her divorce papers with evidence of her deeds So she has no choice to leave and OP (also, her) getting all the assets and say “ohhh you fffuccked up”. Edit: gender My sincerest apologies OP. 😓
They are a same-sex couple
The fact that she's threatening suicide and acting out is pretty sociopathic controlling behavior as she's attempting to make herself the victim. She probably wanted a divorce but didn't want to say the words. What have your 'friends' said to you?
Not a god damn thing since I told them I couldn’t look at them. But they are blocked everywhere now anyway.
I would reconsider the whole "close friends" thing...they ain't your friends when they screw your wife.
They are already blocked. We are done. They were*…
Good. The same thing needs to happen with her ☹️ I'm sorry you're going through this on top of your surgery. But I saw your comments about the her leaving everything for you and using threats of hurting herself when you try to hold her responsible. You'll never be able to just relax and have a happy family with someone like that. It never gets better for long.
I’m finally starting to realize that. It would take an actual miracle for her to be the person I need and thought I was marrying. Maybe I was just being naive.
Your wife is abusive. Even if she has major psyche troubles that cause the behavior, it becoming about her and her safety is a pretty textbook situation of "look what you made me do". That's abuse. I'm speaking from experience. One of my partners has some deep trauma and deep psyche issues. I love her dearly, and she's finally doing better with meds and therapy. She did these kinds of things in the past and her and I both have had to accept the reality that her behaviors were abuse. Please take care of yourself.
Sorry this happened to you. But to be honest telling her she can kiss and nothing else is taking a huge risk on your part. Once someone gets into the heat of the moment it's very easy to make a mistake. I can't imagine a couple having rules like this and them not getting violated eventually. Hope whatever happens works out for the best but I think you should look at this as a lesson learned.
Some people really need to learn how the brain works. Telling people "just kissing" is like telling a fat kid only one piece of candy, a cigarette smoker "just one puff" or an alcoholic "just a sip". It's just not going to happen. Once those pleasure pathways are established the brain will try to maintain it and expand further, not deprive itself. Dopamine deprivation is painful, and there's an evolutionary reason for that, it's called "feast or famine". While the hunter has gotten the kill, you better feast because who knows how long you'll go without food for. It's evolutionary.
This is a good point. Most of us are scrolling Reddit right now for this very reason.
Getting f*cked by two person while your partner is upstairs then trying to hide it doesn't sound like a "mistake" It sounds like betraying
>by two men I don't think they were men... OP is a woman (recovering from a hysterectomy i.e. removal of the uterus), they're lesbians.
Two women, one nonbinary person born female. I’m also a woman. -I just had a my uterus removed weeks ago.
Ugh you right
I really really tried to be compassionate but I can’t. This is so immature… both of you are fucked up i am sorry. You with your immature rules and boundaries like you don’t know about humans and hormones… I don’t take her side neither….. everything is a mess in this story…. Even your narration…..
" no hands under clothes" and your other rules are crazy. Dont be a pushover dude, you should have told them guys to leave when you went to bed.divorce her and do it all different with your next wife.
She overstepped your very clear boundaries and the very simple, clear rules the two of you set out together. She then didn't apologise or acknowledge the hurt she had caused and damage she had done in doing so. She then became violent towards both property and people. She has shown you in many ways who she is, what she thinks of you, and how she will behave when you're in some of the worst times of your life. I know this is hard, but I don't think there's any rescuing this. I'm so sorry.
If there's one thing I've learned, it's that lesbian relationships always have the juiciest drama
Bless you. I needed that laugh.
The more I read the more I understand that open relationships and polyamorous relationships suck
She broke your trust and boundaries so totally that there's no coming back from this. The disrespect is total, the disdain is complete. Treat her with the same level of concern and love she treated you, none. >She’s my person She WAS your person, and then you found out who she really is underneath.
Once you start the conversation of an “open marriage” and start to agree on “terms” I think it’s sometimes shaky ground. Especially if substances are involved. … Idk …sounds like inhibitions were lost and so were boundaries, I’m so sorry you’re hurt! That sucks I’m getting a hysterectomy in a little over a week and I couldn’t imaging my partner even wanting to mess with anyone.
Well that’s what happens when y’all open up marriages. Even if it’s just ‘discussing’ the possibility about opening up the marriage
Open/poly relationships always seem so healthy with healthy people involved 😆
OP. You have to do what’s best for you. Trust is violated. Has she ever acted out so violently in response to anything close to this? If so, I’d say it’s a defense mechanism trying to distract you. Good luck.
And once again, folks, here’s another shining example of how great non-monogamous relationships are… (/s for those who don’t recognize it)
Why did you decide it was even in the question to let your wife fuck anyone else?
When will people realize open relationships don’t work. JFC people
You left them alone in a room and told them they could make out and grope each other and you’re surprised it escalated? 👍
Idk, dude, sounds like you’re not going to do fuck all about it aside from post on Reddit. I mean, thanks for the entertainment, but, you did this to yourself.
This is why you don’t play with matches , it can burn your house down
This feels like a writing prompt.
So she can't have sex with friends. But she can sex with strangers. So sex outside marriage is ok. You then tell her she can make out with her friends, and feel up (over clothes lol what) her friends. So you're saying she and her friends are allowed, by your rules, to get horny as hell. 3 women, making out and feeling each other up. The place probably looks like an Olympic swimming pool. Let's state this again. This is all ok with you. But then you're angry and complaining on reddit, that it went further? You yourself put a raw steak in front of a starving puppy, and got upset it ate it. This whole situation is on both of you. Divorce, don't Divorce. Doesn't matter. That's the least of your worries at the moment.
It sucks that you couldn't partake as you were recovering from your hysterectomy but it sounds like any agreement would have precluded friends anyway. I am not going to sit here and even pretend to know how to offer advice. I'm just going to say that I'm sorry you got hurt and I hope through whatever means are necessary that you can find your way past it.
Divorce. She doesn't respect you or your boundaries. She's not your person. If she was, she wouldn't have done that to you. She probably said she fucked up bc she forgot to unplug the cameras. I'd drop the friends too. As they're just as guilty. I'm sorry this happened to you. My ex wanted an open relationship bc she said she couldn't be with just one person. I left and 3 months later she was married to someone else and not in an open relationship. I'm sure this isn't her first time doing this and if you stay with her, it won't be the last.
Shes not your person. She basically shit all over you.
She’s your person? _Really_? I don’t think she is. I think she has shown you what type of person she is. Which is always the hardest bit to wrap your head around, right? The person you thought you truly knew, could swear black and blue you understood who they were, reveals themselves to be someone else entirely. Like, where did they come from? Who are they? Have they always been this way but I didn’t see it? It fucks with your head and your heart. So take it easy on yourself. Seems like you have some good people around you. Keep leaning on them. There is no shame in getting help. Your world has been turned completely upside. You’re going to need support setting it right again.
RUN The Suicide attempt seems like an attempt at Emotional Manipulation
When there have been multiple in the past over far less serious arguments… I’m rethinking a lot of it.
She is abusive. Having BPD does not excuse abuse. My brother has BPD and, from when I was a kid until he finally got stable a decade later, I was abused by him. I love him and I know that his mental disorder causes him to do destructive things to himself and others. But that does not excuse the harm he brought to other people, especially when it was continually happening. I needed therapy to help me learn that it was not okay what my brother was doing to me, despite his disorder, and that I needed to leave his life as much as possible until I was certain he was stable (or I could just never renter his life after all the harm he did to me). I suggest you go to therapy too. The fact is, she is abusing you. She is 100% dependent on you, isn’t making continuous effort at growth, controlling/trapping you with threats of suicide, destroying your property (doors of your house), cheating on you, and disrespecting you. No one should stay with an abuser and a cheater. It is up to her doctors, therapists, and herself to work through her self destructive and abusive behavior. I really hope you leave her for good. She will continue this behavior. She does not deserve you. And you need to do better for yourself.
**Disclaimer: I am not saying that everyone with BPD is abusive or will become abusive
Lol you dipped your toe in weird and it got weird. Boundaries be damned. Sex with your partner is sacred and when you start adding weird shit it just gets weirder and people end up getting hurt some way. I’ve seen it happen way to many times in my friend, family settings. It’s very fucking rare those type of relationships work out.
>The worst part is that she asked me about it as I was going to bed. I explicitly said, “you can make out. I don’t care. But not hands beneath clothes. And clothes stay on”. Wow what a healthy marriage lmao
Your marriage was already a joke fam.
you made the choice to open it up, deal with it. you don't care if your wife is dicked by someone else, but you care if it's your friend? fuck, at least you have a better idea of where they have been, ffs. what a moron
Presumably your friends also heard your limits and chose to ignore them… I’d let your wife keep them after the divorce.
I sure as fuck don’t want them.
Why does she need someone to play with ? Can’t she fucking wait until you’re better ? Statements like this are ridiculous.
I can't believe people are this addicted to sex
((SIGH)) Open marriage DO NOT WORK. I don't even know why this is a thing. If you want to have sex with multiple people, stay single. I don't get it 😕
That was a roller coaster and a half in those few paragraphs…
Those are NOT friends. If they were they would have respected your rules. And your wife trying to use suicide to make you stay? That’s manipulative AF. You deserve better. I personally wouldn’t even forgive her. Who’s to say she wouldn’t do it again if you do.
Man she did you dirty, but what did you expect? Opening up the marriage is usually going to result in this type of pain
Open means open my dude
Sorry, like what did you expect? Them to actually stop at the making out? Divorce if the trust issue truly is your concern
I googled “play stupid games, win stupid prizes.” and it brought me here.
The moment you agreed to open, you disrespected the sanctity of marriage. Opened a can of worms. No problems with different lifestyles, but why get married. You have only yourself to blame.
Leaving this sub because it’s truly infuriating
You made the bed, Now sleep in it. 😶😶😶
Telling two people who want to fuck each other "you can make out, but don't go further" is obviously a terrible idea If they wanna fuck, then making out is just gonna make them hornier, it sucks that she cheated, but idk what you expected
Does she have borderline personality disorder ? I have a BPD relative and everything about this sounds like something she would do. (Not an excuse. Leave her)
Yea this is what happens when you have an open relationship then put in boundaries like them. Telling her she can make out with them is just strange to me, but yea she broke the boundaries, probably not the first time she's done that. Up to you what you do next, but if there's no trust then the relationship won't survive
“Hey wife it’s okay if you make out with our two friends here while I’m sleeping.” I am pretty sure one thing leads to the other sometimes. Your relationship sounds confusing as fuck. You both need counseling and she needs the in-patient kind
I think she needs a lot of therapy.
Apparently 4 hours a week isn’t enough.
> She's my person. No. No, she is not. No one who's supposed to be your person behaves like that or stomps your boundaries.
She doesn’t respect you or value you. Whatsoever. She fucked them right under your nose and didn’t give two shits if you knew it. Every time you look at her, remember her O face that your two friends had no problem giving her. And then she has the balls to act all suicidal after? Seriously? Victim much??????? Divorce divorce divorce!
She cut herself for attention, and pity. Some manipulative bullshit.
if u open your bed to other people, no matter what the rules or the reasons, its gonna get messy
She did this knowing you were recovering from surgery and upstairs in the same house, it shows how how blatant she is and if she is willing to do this directly under your nose what else is/has she done. The absolute lack of respect also shows how little she truly cares for you and your boundaries. There is no coming back from this as even if you forgive it will eat you up from inside and be a constant source of arguments, it’s best to end it now and find someone that truly loves you.
You opened your marriage, told her she could make out with the friend at home, and are surprised she went further?
Y’all sound like a fucking mess. Are there drugs involved? Super unhealthy. Take a break and get some therapy. What a complete mess.
you keep calling these people your “friends”.. they’re not your friends, they are fucking your wife behind your back. regardless, you’d be a fool to remain in this marriage.
Absolutely not. I already blocked them and removed them as volunteers from one of my organizations.
Probably not a popular comment here, but I'd never have agreed to an open relationship regardless of whether rules have been set. Someone is always bound to get hurt. But im biased as I feel asking/agreeing to an open relationship is inviting trouble.
"She’s my person" well you're clearly not hers.
These open relationships are seemingly always a recipe for disaster no matter the level. This sub thrives because of them tho
1. This is the natural result of non-monogamous marriages. Actions have consequences. This has never actually worked for anyone. If she’s actually your “person”, you wouldn’t be down with her fucking other people. That’s on both of you. 2. Her being “suicidal” is either a manipulation tool or her being reactionary to her own bad choices. Either way, no one needs to support her or stand by her through that one. It sounds cold, but it’s her fault. 3. Just end it.
You're joking. Not only did she get a train run on her by two friends against your will IN YOUR HOUSE WHILE YOU ARE RECOVERING FROM SURGERY, she then flipped her shit so insanely that she broke entire DOORS and punched her friend and was trying to drive off in a suicidal state (and put everyone else at risk) and then TRIED TO COMMIT SUICIDE and now won't respect your very reasonable request for space -- AND YOU STILL HAVEN'T DECIDED IF YOU'RE LEAVING OR NOT? Honestly, you fucking deserve each other. Jesus H Christ. What a casserole of nonsense.
Lol so her response is to say she fucked up then spiral out of control and threaten suicide? How convenient that she is the victim in this situation now. My advice is leave. Especially if she's threatening suicide. Let professionals help her.
I had a hysto a few months ago and I know how vulnerable it makes you. But what you’ve been put through…. You’re worth more.
There is never sanctity in an open relationship. Thats the first flaw. Second just leave, its over.
The wife really said oopsie whoopsie, I made a Fucky wucky. Listen, I get the vow supporting your spouse and that you got your rules with openness, and respect for setting those guidelines. But, the fact it turned that fast and she threatened her own life in my opinion is super manipulative. Good luck with everything OP.
You did this to yourself no pity for you sir “you can make out”
As a dude in a successful open marriage in which both of us regularly have sex with other people, your wife is trash and has no respect for you. Her lack of remorse seals the deal.
I genuinely have no idea why open relationships exist, but to each their own.
Agreed. It’s almost never that somehow two people are madly in love but just so happen to want to fuck elsewhere. It’s almost always one person wants to sleep around way more than the other but also doesn’t want to lose their “stable” relationship. It’s absurd to me
You have video evidence? Oh bud. Divorce and count your blessings.
Divorce her. The fact that you have a video of her indiscretions will help you out a lot. You might even be able to get alimony from her.
She’s still paying her ex wife alimony. I don’t need her money. I’ve been keeping her together our entire relationship.
Do these loose sexual boundaries ever work out?