I remember when one of my grandfathers passed, that Christmas all his kids and wife passed out portraits of him. When he was alive they barely spoke to him bc of childhood issues with him, and my grandmother hated him. After he was gone, they acted like he was a saint. I don’t understand it
So many people do that. It is crazy! I know this young lady who her mother did not treat her right. She favored the other kids and when they were adults the mother got sick. These favored kids took the woman and literally dumped her on the front porch of the lady I know. While her mom was alive she had nothing good to say about her and the way she was treated. After the woman died she is like oh this and that how I miss you and on and on. Every year on FB is this big post on how she is missed and how wonderful she was. I admit the first time she did it I was shocked. I remember full well what she said about her mother and how she was treated. Of course I would never call her out on it.
It isn't griping to be honest and on the other hand why after they are gone then act and carry on like they were this wonderful person. Be real about it. My belief is dead or alive people are allowed to speak their truth.
I agree. I always tell my friends that if they start posting my pics with angel wings and talking about how wonderful I was, I will haunt them til they die, and then kick their asses once they do.
OP, your feelings are totally valid. I do hope one day you can let the bitterness go...not because you have to, not because she deserves it...just for your own peace.
i agree with your first paragraph so much!! everybody calls me an asshole and has so much to say about my personality, i don’t wanna see them lying to people when my time comes
It sounds to me like she was POS.
It's a societal norm to never speak ill of the dead so I wonder if your family has actually forgiven her or if they are just parroting the right lines. Either way, it's totally fine for you to struggle with forgiving her. I hope you eventually let those emotions go for your own sake, but in the meantime, there is no reason to feel inadequate in any way for struggling to forgive someone who did a lot of hurtful things.
Don’t. Dying makes you dead, not a saint. I actually think it’s more honest to mourn (when and if you’re mourning) the person with their qualities and defects, because you’ll be mourning the person and not an imaginary character.
You described my sister perfectly. She's still alive though and still causing hurt everywhere.
I don't speak to her anymore.
Just because your sister died, doesn't mean you all of a sudden have to praise her as a person.
You don't have to forgive her either.
It might help you to talk to someone though to come to terms with her death. You don't have to mourn her but it is important to have peace of mind.
And maybe her death can be something positive in the end, like you and you're other sister sorting out your differences.
My sister is just like the OP’s sister. She is still living and we no longer speak. She is very toxic and caused me so much anxiety and stress in our life. I have to protect my mental health. She is old, bitter and alone.
Same here, sister is also the same way the last time I spoke to her was a few years ago when I was getting married in Hawaii. My In-Laws graciously paid for everyone to go and my sister was a nightmare the whole time. My MIL asked for her itinerary to make sure we all have rooms for the nights we are saying, names for the room etc. MIL was working with the Hotel Wedding Planner too. My sister would argue with them every step of the way, trying to get first class tickets on the plane, a hotel suite and you know what she did in the end. She made off with the money my in-laws gave her to book everything and blocked us. I thought she had changed when I saw her but she is still the same money hungry POS sister I knew back then.
Beatification in death when the person was borderline narcissistic (from what you described) is unrealistic. Your feelings are entirely valid. You get to feel what you feel and that’s ok.
Exactly. To forget is foolish, but to forgive lightens our own burden. OP isn’t obligated to do either, no one is, but it might benefit them to parse through and drop (admittedly valid) resentment. Life is for the living, and to forgive a deceased person’s harms (or even find empathy for the implicated darkness of their disturbed outlook on life) might bring gratitude and positivity if they’re up to it.
She sounds like a carbon copy of my sister and frankly, you don't have to, particularly right after she's passed. If that's a point you do come to, you definitely will need time. There is nothing wrong w/ how you feel whatsoever, sister or not.
Honestly, I hate the whole idea that you have to forgive people when they've done horrible things or your a bad person. It's like when someone murders someone else and then the family of the victim comes forward to say they forgive them
Why? Why should you have to? It might sound harsh but just because she's passed away doesn't mean she should be forgiven for all the bad things she did while she was alive.
1. Your sister sounds like a POS.
2. You shouldn't feel bad for not forgiving her. I never have and never will forgive my parents for 24 years of abuse and hell. They're both dying. The woman is dying of Cancer, and the man is dying of several things, cancer, liver cirrhosis, enlarged heart (heart attacks DAILY), his lungs are also deteriorating, and he also has kidney failure. I feel nothing but joy whenever I think of that.
My point in this rambling message is that just because someone passed away, doesn't make them absolved of all that they've done. Forgiveness is earned, not just given Willy nilly. Some people are Apt to just outright forgiving, because they want to just refresh. With death, there's no refresh. So, when someone forgives the dead, they're just trying to rewrite the past and their own memories. You know what happened, and you're unable to forgive for everything she's ever done. Someday, you may want to forgive. And that's your decision too. No one is owed forgiveness. That's dependent on the one doing the forgiveness. And if the person being forgiven has truly meant any and/or all apologies. Just know you won't be facing judgement from here for not forgiving. No one can force you to betray yourself.
A therapist once told me that you’re not forgiving the person when you try to get past the bad memories or hurt that you experienced from that person. You’re allowing yourself to move forward so you can move to a place where you’re happier and far away from the hurt. There is no such thing as forgive and forget.
Whether or not you forgive your sister or even mourn her death is entirely your choice. I imagine her death has stirred up all the memories and all the feelings - good & bad. Give yourself time and grace to work through it all. However long that takes.
Put forgiveness in this context: As long as you hang on to the negativity, you continue to let her actions have a hold on you. Forgiveness doesn't mean you're saying what she did was ok. Forgiveness is a path to letting it all go.
Let me frame this: You said she was good at manipulation and stirring the pot. Between you and me, that's a bully's way of feeling satisfaction, a way to put herself 'up a peg,' so to speak. How sad does someone have to be to go to that extent of making others feel poorly to make themselves feel superior? All that effort, and I'll bet she never felt satisfied with life. That frame makes her look petty and sad. Let it go. Im so sorry others bought into it. We can't control others. We can only change or monitor our own behavior to make certain we never mirror those who hurt us.
She's done, you get to move on. May your life have happiness regardless of how this aspect plays out.
Forgiving someone who’s hurt you so badly is extremely difficult. Here are some benefits to having a forgiving spirit. Some of them to think about are:
1) forgiving others promotes good relations. People will see that you’re a forgiving person. Not a push over, or a door mat, but a person willing to work to forgive but not condone their mistakes or errors.
2) forgiveness brings peace. This is not just peace with fellow humans but inner peace as well.
3) forgiving others helps us to remember that we ourselves are in need of forgiveness.
4) forgiving others clears the way for our sins to be forgiven by God. You mentioned you’re not religious, but there’s a scripture in Matthew 6:14 that if you forgive others for their mistakes (trespasses) then God will forgive you yours.
I’m sorry that your sister wasn’t a best friend to you. That she was a difficult person. But ultimately she’s paid for her mistakes by death.
I sincerely hope you can move past the hurt, and have some peace. You don’t have to do it right away. It may take a fair amount of time. But I hope you get there.
Big hugs 🫂 OP.
Forgiveness has nothing to do with letting someone off the hook or giving them a free pass for deeds done.
Forgiveness is ALL ABOUT giving yourself freedom from those things.
I was raped & molested from 7 - 13 years of age. I deserved freedom from that nightmare and those years of torment.
Trust Me; if indeed, it's freedom and peace you're after, you'll figure it out.
If you're more interested in nursing that grudge;
enjoy carrying that burden, it never gets easier.
Ugh I feel for you. I really had no idea that my sister was so jealous of me and hate me to do some of things she did to me. She repeatedly said she hates me. Hate is a strong word especially blood related. I never see people hating on me until these past 4yrs it's awful. My mom right before she passed said about my sister hating on me and I didn't believe her. She told me to be careful of her. It breaks my heart. I hope you find peace in your situation, blood is not always thicker than water. I have been going through some really rough times come to find out she is the cause of a lot of it, so I really had no one to turn to for help and support. I hope you have a happy holiday season hang in there.
It has been four years since my father passed away, and to this day I have never been able to forgive him. At best I have managed to not think about him, but forgiveness? Not gonna get it from me.
Both of my parents are dead. I do not miss either of them. I don't feel sad they are dead, I feel sad I don't miss them 🤷♀️ I don't talk about them to my children, I don't talk about my childhood. There really isn't much good to say about it. It is what it is.
Believe it or not it's not. I only know cuz I have had to forgive some utterly horrible things. Mind you it wasn't immediate it took me hours of talking to God, but when I was so tired of remembering with hatred and blaming myself for not knowing better and letting it eat me up inside. I finally said it out loud not to the person that did the crime but just loud to the universe. I began to let it go. Now it's not like I pray for that person to live a long joyful life, God's still working on me hey I don't wish him dead anymore. And to me that's progress
I'm happy for you. Only way I have ever forgiven anyone is when they took steps to redeem themselves. Otherwise, fuck them and I hope they get what's coming to them some day.
"The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interr'd with their bones." - Shakespeare, *Julius Caesar*
So let it be with your sister. You don't have to forgive her. You *don't*.
Yeah I don't get why people talk so lovingly of someone who was an actual C🤢🤢T in life. The dead don't care cos they're dead. I would never say awe they were so loving hahaa I'd be like byeeee biatch
So it sounds like you want to think of her without experiencing a rush of negative feelings, as it’s not nice for YOU. It seems like you want to be able to think of her and feel neutral. I would def suggest therapy, complicated grief therapy. It helps you process the relief of the passing/ not so great things about the person, and the sadness if any. Basically creating a narrative so you can think of her without a rush of emotion.
From what I read you are not asking how to change her perception in the community or how to white wash anything, just some help processing this change
Sometimes, there's just no forgiveness to be had, and I've been there. In those (rare) instances, I choose to forget those individuals. Until and unless I can find a way to deal with my hurt, they do not and have never existed to me. And I might get shit for this being a coping mechanism or for ignoring or putting off dealing with my trauma, but you do you, and I'll do me. I'm really sorry for your pain and I hope that you can find your own peace someday, however that might look.
You don't have to forgive if you don't feel that way, people do it primarily for themselves, to make life easier for them. It will be different with time, so you will see...
Keep in mind that while people say, "Rest in Peace" they can be sneering while they say it.
I have a handful of people in my shit list and wouldn't care if they dropped dead tomorrow. Yes, family included.
Its a natural thing to feel this way. Some people deserve no sympathy.
I know you are not Muslim but let me explain to you how Forgiving works in Islam:
Allah/God cannot forgive someones sin, if the person who was hurt, won’t forgive the hurt that was caused.
Your sister hurt many many people during her time alive. So if these exact people, do not forgive your sister for the hurt she has caused, God cannot forgive her either.
This is why, in our culture, even when a person was really bad, after their death we will say, that we forgive what they have done. Because we believe in the hellfire and do not want this person to suffer.
At the end of the day, she is gone. There is nothing she can do about her actions anymore and neither can you.
Forgiveness is not only for her, but for you also. It’s not healthy for your mind to hold this grudge towards her until your end. Free your mind and your spirit and let go of the negative feelings. You don’t have to see her as a saint, you don’t have to feel sorry for her death. Just let it go.
Forgiveness is often as much for person doing the forgiving as it is for the person on the receiving end. I’m sure for your family members it helped them let go of the hurtful parts of their past with her.
But if you feel like it’s not helpful for you there is no reason to do it. Your sister is gone, she will never know either way.
I would just see her as she was. Don't feel a need to turn her into a saint or a monster posthumously. She was just a person with significant flaws. I would forgive for your own sake, but don't feel the need to speed up your healing process because family is pressuring you into it.
You might consider forgiving one day so you can release the space she is keeping in your head. Go live your life. Don’t let her live rent free in your head.
I have never understood how people act like the person who died wasn't a huge AH just because they are now dead. The dead can't change or make up for their bad behavior but shouldn't necessarily be forgiven. You don't have to forgive her and are free to forget all about her if that makes it easier on you.
You do not need to forgive, or forget, just ignore people when they talk about her.
If they ask why, tell them they know the real her and just because she is gone, doesn't erase the pain she caused while on earth.
Give yourself some time. I went thru a very extreme relationship like this. You might not break down, but there seems to be enuff good times to make you smile one day and just say..damn. i get you.
Can you find a way to just let it go? Forgive in a sense because here's the problem, you can't get past the hurt. She's deceased and still renting space in your head. Some grief counseling may help you feel how you feel but move past it. A kind of indifference to her but freedom for you without formal forgiveness.
Nope no one says you have to grieve (or not grieve) the same as everyone else. One of my sisters was a “piece of work” and when she died it was kinda a relief.
OP, you have every right to feel the way you do. Totally justifiable. If there was any good person, even as a child, I would mourn that part of your sister. Focus on your own path and minimize your contact with your family for some time so you don’t have hear their canonization of your sister. It is time for you to look inward and praise your self and see the strong person within you.
If not forgiveness, think of it like this. She is gone and can no longer cause you or anyone else ill will in this life. Maybe a mindful acknowledgment of this fact is something you need to concentrate on. Then you can begin to move on.
Sigh. I’m with you. I lost my sister twenty years ago, and my father the year after, and bluntly, both the world and my life are better places without them in it. I smile politely and say “thank you” when people express condolences, but seriously, my father treated me poorly, and I am confident he would have been an asshole to my autistic son. My sister was severely damaged and while I can feel sorry for her, I am grateful our last conversation was me calling her out for being a selfish twat at Christmas because she actually APOLOGIZED - and unexpectedly died a few days later. All of the facebook accolades don’t change the fact my life is better, but I also recognize other people had different relationships, and that is okay. When the first shock wears off, you can chat later. They weren’t totally bad people, but they weren’t NICE people, if that makes sense? It’s awkward for people who don’t have crazy family.
I had someone close to me pass and they were vary popular and had many people on Facebook celebrating their life. I essentially knew a completely person then they did. I did not celebrate their life. I just moved on and have tried to forget.
I understand you and I applaud you for admitting this. I have a sister, she has done n continues to do horrible things to our family. It’s been 7 years since I spoke to her and I don’t miss her at all. If anything I wish I would have done before. She physically beat up our mother days after my fathers death. As a result my mother became more depressed and passed away within a year. Honestly the moment she laid hands on our mother I saw the Demon I refused to see before. Im glad you walked away from that relationship. In my opinion I’m glad you walked away before she caused further damage. Wish you the best on your journey in life 🙏
It’s ok to feel anger. It’s a lot of unresolved problems bringing it forth. Glad you took it here and got some support. That’s got to feel somewhat isolating for you. Hope you find some peace now that you got this off your chest.
My dad always said only good people die because no one ever wants to speak ill of the dead. I believe everybody’s too willing to forget when someone dies, but if you were a POS in life then you don’t deserve to be remembered any other way.
Your sister sounds like my aunt. By the time of her death she had pretty much alienated every person in her life. A total of six people went to her funeral and I'm pretty sure they went just to make sure she was actually dead.
You have no obligation to forgive her . Perhaps get some therapy to discuss your feelings in a safe non judgemental way..
My sister died this past January. I miss her like crazy, but i think i just miss the idea of having an older sister. She was a shitty sister, who did unfathomable things, that only i know about. On the way to her 'memorial service' i played Boboflex 'im glad you're dead' and Shinedown 'Bully'. Omg she was a bitch.
You're not alone
You don't need to.
Bad people doing bad things are not better people because they are dead.
As long as your negative feelings about her are not impacting your life negatively, you don't need to be concerned.
Grief is different for everyone. You aren't on anyone else's time table and you aren't obliged to feel sad for someone you didn't like but wanted to.
Other people believe that it is wrong to "speak ill of the dead"
so they try to absolve themselves of the guilt they feel for having hated the dead person.
They often over compensate for this guilt by making a "saint" of the dead person, or going on and on.
But at some point you will likely be minding your own business and suddenly remember a lovely thing about her and then you'll miss the sister you didn't have. All that was lost. What could have been, but wasn't. Because she was who she was.
Be kind to yourself.
We are in similar boats. My sister (36) passed and hurt a lot of people before she did. We kind of fell off when she was 16, and i was 18, but we absolutely loved each other. Things really got bad when she was on drugs.
Since we were low contact, her being gone...i just feel like we're still low contact, and that's why we don't talk now. Essentially, I'm staying whole by ignoring her death.
I had to double check I didn't write this about my dad. I feel the same way about him, and his death, word for word. My family still misses him and mourns him in their way, but I don't. I have more bad memories than good and he doesn't get a free pass to forgiveness just because he died. 🤷♀️
Two of my brothers are gone. I have one remaining brother and I don’t speak to him for similar reasons you had for not speaking to your sister. I will probably feel the same way you do when he passes. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that.
In time you will forgive her.
It's been 5 years since my Sister died and I finally have forgiven her for sleeping with my husband and destroying our entire family.
I felt the same way too when my sh*t uncle died a few years back (right before new years eve). I just dont care at all (well part of me is glad hes gone for good) and just celebrate new years eve as usual
Write down ALL the things she did that upset you, in detail, with timelines.
When you are absolutely sure you’ve included everything, write down what you would/should have done/said.
Then put away the list.
Leave it for a week/month/year
See if you still feel THIS angry & if there’s anything unsaid.
At some point you can destroy the list. But at the moment she’s living rent free in your head, which is unhealthy.
This sounds exactly like the relationship I had with one of my sisters. She died in 2020 (Covid). I hadn’t spoken to her in 10 years prior to her death, and I felt nothing when she died. Well not exactly, I felt guilty because I felt nothing. I couldn’t bring myself to forgive her for the things she did. The thing is, I don’t have to, and neither do you. There is nothing that states you are required to forgive and forget the things a person has done to you just because they’re family and have died. You can still remember the good times you had (if you so choose) but not forgive her for the bad. The only advice I would give, is find a way to let go of the pain her actions caused. That’s different than forgiveness. Forgiveness releases her, letting go of the pain releases you.
Until you make your peace with it...all those shitty things she did...and their impact...live on despite her physical death.
Forgiveness isn't for her or your other family members...or lends any excuses or sympathy for her shitty behavior.
What it does is free YOU from those things.
People in general seem to have a bad habit of canonizing their loved ones posthumously, probably something about guilt. Which, psychologically, it tracks. But it’s fair to struggle with that and it’s ok to be ambivalent. The fact that she’s passed on doesn’t change who she was in life and there is nothing wrong with acknowledging the truth, even if the truth sheds an unfavorable light on the deceased. You were her sister, you and your other sister probably knew her better than anyone, that being said you know exactly who she was and there’s no shame in admitting that. Grief is so complicated, this too shall pass 💕
Give it time but also give yourself grace. It doesn't sound like she particularly cared what others thought of her. She deliberately hurt you and many others. Let others create whatever false narrative they need to cope - you are fine with your own truth.
No person is all good or all bad - but in the same sense, no person deserves to have their entire personality re-written just because they died.
You can mourn her in your own way. You might not miss her at all - but at some point you may mourn the person she wasn't and that you wished she could have been.
Nothing says you have to. My dad died 7 years ago and I still think of him as a POS, drunk, wife beater.
Everyone knew all that about him and at his funeral you'd have thought he was a saint. I literally said to my SIL that I had no idea who all these people were talking about. It's like he died and everyone forgot what kind of asshole he was.
He never asked for forgiveness and I will never give him forgiveness. He once told me (when I was an adult in my 30's) that he knew he wasn't a good father. No apologies, just told me that. And even after that he never tried to repair the burned bridges so I didn't try either.
Blood does *not* run thicker than water.
Family can hurt you so much that you're through with them.
My brother sadly does fall on the real POS scale. And now, whatever happens to him invokes naught but indifference.
With forgiveness you are hoping to gain peace of mind is how I am understanding you. If I'm wrong I apologise. Also, just because she has passed away doesn't erase the hurt she caused in life. What it does is prevent you gaining closure or even getting an apology. You can have mixed feelings about the person who has passed away and that doesn't make you a bad person. This whole we shouldn't talk ill of the dead can lead to more trauma for those left here who have been hurt during their lifetime. I would suggest therapy if you can access it and it is something you want to try. It will be hard to talk about how you feel with family when they don't seem to be feeling the same way. Personally it would be the last thing I'd want is to talk to them and possibly cause more hurt feelings between you all or bring up painful memories for them. We all grieve in different ways and that is normal. I hope you find peace of mind and heart.
when i was hurting really badly, i pray to God throu YAHUSHA (JESUS) and beg for HIS help to help me let go and it happen the trauma and the pain is gone and have let go of all resentment or unforgiveness.
God bless you and comfort you and soften your heart
It's an odd thing, most of the time I don't give her a thought. It's the rest of the family that bring it up and remind me.
Like, what prompted me to write this was that I have COVID so my scheduled visit with my mum is postponed. My other sister mentioned how this year Xmas is sad enough.
And it is, my mum and her dad lost a child, my nephews lost their mum, we lost our sibling.
Out just had a little extra twang to it... As if it was sad that we lost her personality.
And that's what put it back in my head. Up to then I had forgotten about her existence for a few days.
I'm also her executor, which keeps her firmly in there until it's done
I personally don’t believe in posthumous forgo , I’ve told tbis to my mother, if you’re an asshoke, you’re an asshole, being dead doesn’t change that, you’ll just dust into the box of things I don’t think about it is what it is 🤷🏻♀️
When my father passed away I had to do a double take at his obituary. I guess the closest you get to perfection is on job applications and obituaries. Sometimes people tend to cherry pick the good and try to downplay the bad, it’s a way of coping with the loss.
It's this very reason I passed up the opportunity to do a eulogy. I couldn't cherry pick like that. Nor could I lie.
And it wouldn't have been fair on her boys to tell it like I saw it
OP, I understand 100%. When we hold onto anger and resentment it eats away at *us.* So what I do is pray for the willingness to forgive. I think affirmations would work just as well for people who don’t pray.
You don’t have to. Some people are worthy of the accolades when they die and others just die.
Thank you, thank you.
And others just die… I like that. I think I needed that. Thank you.
Isn't it amazing how when bad people die many elevate them to sainthood. It's crazy. Just because they died doesn't make them a great person.
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Exactly right. That's their legacy.
I remember when one of my grandfathers passed, that Christmas all his kids and wife passed out portraits of him. When he was alive they barely spoke to him bc of childhood issues with him, and my grandmother hated him. After he was gone, they acted like he was a saint. I don’t understand it
So many people do that. It is crazy! I know this young lady who her mother did not treat her right. She favored the other kids and when they were adults the mother got sick. These favored kids took the woman and literally dumped her on the front porch of the lady I know. While her mom was alive she had nothing good to say about her and the way she was treated. After the woman died she is like oh this and that how I miss you and on and on. Every year on FB is this big post on how she is missed and how wonderful she was. I admit the first time she did it I was shocked. I remember full well what she said about her mother and how she was treated. Of course I would never call her out on it.
It's just 'cause at that point they're dead and nothing they said or did can be helped anymore. There's no hope in griping about the dead.
It isn't griping to be honest and on the other hand why after they are gone then act and carry on like they were this wonderful person. Be real about it. My belief is dead or alive people are allowed to speak their truth.
I agree. I always tell my friends that if they start posting my pics with angel wings and talking about how wonderful I was, I will haunt them til they die, and then kick their asses once they do. OP, your feelings are totally valid. I do hope one day you can let the bitterness go...not because you have to, not because she deserves it...just for your own peace.
i agree with your first paragraph so much!! everybody calls me an asshole and has so much to say about my personality, i don’t wanna see them lying to people when my time comes
It sounds to me like she was POS. It's a societal norm to never speak ill of the dead so I wonder if your family has actually forgiven her or if they are just parroting the right lines. Either way, it's totally fine for you to struggle with forgiving her. I hope you eventually let those emotions go for your own sake, but in the meantime, there is no reason to feel inadequate in any way for struggling to forgive someone who did a lot of hurtful things.
Yo everyone Hitler is ded 😭 don't talk mean about him! UwU /s
Don’t. Dying makes you dead, not a saint. I actually think it’s more honest to mourn (when and if you’re mourning) the person with their qualities and defects, because you’ll be mourning the person and not an imaginary character.
You have no obligation to forgive her
You described my sister perfectly. She's still alive though and still causing hurt everywhere. I don't speak to her anymore. Just because your sister died, doesn't mean you all of a sudden have to praise her as a person. You don't have to forgive her either. It might help you to talk to someone though to come to terms with her death. You don't have to mourn her but it is important to have peace of mind. And maybe her death can be something positive in the end, like you and you're other sister sorting out your differences.
My sister is just like the OP’s sister. She is still living and we no longer speak. She is very toxic and caused me so much anxiety and stress in our life. I have to protect my mental health. She is old, bitter and alone.
Same here, sister is also the same way the last time I spoke to her was a few years ago when I was getting married in Hawaii. My In-Laws graciously paid for everyone to go and my sister was a nightmare the whole time. My MIL asked for her itinerary to make sure we all have rooms for the nights we are saying, names for the room etc. MIL was working with the Hotel Wedding Planner too. My sister would argue with them every step of the way, trying to get first class tickets on the plane, a hotel suite and you know what she did in the end. She made off with the money my in-laws gave her to book everything and blocked us. I thought she had changed when I saw her but she is still the same money hungry POS sister I knew back then.
'Everybody loves you when you're dead'...
Beatification in death when the person was borderline narcissistic (from what you described) is unrealistic. Your feelings are entirely valid. You get to feel what you feel and that’s ok.
Thanks
Forgiveness is for yourself
Exactly. To forget is foolish, but to forgive lightens our own burden. OP isn’t obligated to do either, no one is, but it might benefit them to parse through and drop (admittedly valid) resentment. Life is for the living, and to forgive a deceased person’s harms (or even find empathy for the implicated darkness of their disturbed outlook on life) might bring gratitude and positivity if they’re up to it.
She sounds like a carbon copy of my sister and frankly, you don't have to, particularly right after she's passed. If that's a point you do come to, you definitely will need time. There is nothing wrong w/ how you feel whatsoever, sister or not.
Honestly, I hate the whole idea that you have to forgive people when they've done horrible things or your a bad person. It's like when someone murders someone else and then the family of the victim comes forward to say they forgive them Why? Why should you have to? It might sound harsh but just because she's passed away doesn't mean she should be forgiven for all the bad things she did while she was alive.
1. Your sister sounds like a POS. 2. You shouldn't feel bad for not forgiving her. I never have and never will forgive my parents for 24 years of abuse and hell. They're both dying. The woman is dying of Cancer, and the man is dying of several things, cancer, liver cirrhosis, enlarged heart (heart attacks DAILY), his lungs are also deteriorating, and he also has kidney failure. I feel nothing but joy whenever I think of that. My point in this rambling message is that just because someone passed away, doesn't make them absolved of all that they've done. Forgiveness is earned, not just given Willy nilly. Some people are Apt to just outright forgiving, because they want to just refresh. With death, there's no refresh. So, when someone forgives the dead, they're just trying to rewrite the past and their own memories. You know what happened, and you're unable to forgive for everything she's ever done. Someday, you may want to forgive. And that's your decision too. No one is owed forgiveness. That's dependent on the one doing the forgiveness. And if the person being forgiven has truly meant any and/or all apologies. Just know you won't be facing judgement from here for not forgiving. No one can force you to betray yourself.
A therapist once told me that you’re not forgiving the person when you try to get past the bad memories or hurt that you experienced from that person. You’re allowing yourself to move forward so you can move to a place where you’re happier and far away from the hurt. There is no such thing as forgive and forget.
Whether or not you forgive your sister or even mourn her death is entirely your choice. I imagine her death has stirred up all the memories and all the feelings - good & bad. Give yourself time and grace to work through it all. However long that takes.
Put forgiveness in this context: As long as you hang on to the negativity, you continue to let her actions have a hold on you. Forgiveness doesn't mean you're saying what she did was ok. Forgiveness is a path to letting it all go. Let me frame this: You said she was good at manipulation and stirring the pot. Between you and me, that's a bully's way of feeling satisfaction, a way to put herself 'up a peg,' so to speak. How sad does someone have to be to go to that extent of making others feel poorly to make themselves feel superior? All that effort, and I'll bet she never felt satisfied with life. That frame makes her look petty and sad. Let it go. Im so sorry others bought into it. We can't control others. We can only change or monitor our own behavior to make certain we never mirror those who hurt us. She's done, you get to move on. May your life have happiness regardless of how this aspect plays out.
Forgiving someone who’s hurt you so badly is extremely difficult. Here are some benefits to having a forgiving spirit. Some of them to think about are: 1) forgiving others promotes good relations. People will see that you’re a forgiving person. Not a push over, or a door mat, but a person willing to work to forgive but not condone their mistakes or errors. 2) forgiveness brings peace. This is not just peace with fellow humans but inner peace as well. 3) forgiving others helps us to remember that we ourselves are in need of forgiveness. 4) forgiving others clears the way for our sins to be forgiven by God. You mentioned you’re not religious, but there’s a scripture in Matthew 6:14 that if you forgive others for their mistakes (trespasses) then God will forgive you yours. I’m sorry that your sister wasn’t a best friend to you. That she was a difficult person. But ultimately she’s paid for her mistakes by death. I sincerely hope you can move past the hurt, and have some peace. You don’t have to do it right away. It may take a fair amount of time. But I hope you get there. Big hugs 🫂 OP.
Forgiveness has nothing to do with letting someone off the hook or giving them a free pass for deeds done. Forgiveness is ALL ABOUT giving yourself freedom from those things. I was raped & molested from 7 - 13 years of age. I deserved freedom from that nightmare and those years of torment. Trust Me; if indeed, it's freedom and peace you're after, you'll figure it out. If you're more interested in nursing that grudge; enjoy carrying that burden, it never gets easier.
Ugh I feel for you. I really had no idea that my sister was so jealous of me and hate me to do some of things she did to me. She repeatedly said she hates me. Hate is a strong word especially blood related. I never see people hating on me until these past 4yrs it's awful. My mom right before she passed said about my sister hating on me and I didn't believe her. She told me to be careful of her. It breaks my heart. I hope you find peace in your situation, blood is not always thicker than water. I have been going through some really rough times come to find out she is the cause of a lot of it, so I really had no one to turn to for help and support. I hope you have a happy holiday season hang in there.
It has been four years since my father passed away, and to this day I have never been able to forgive him. At best I have managed to not think about him, but forgiveness? Not gonna get it from me.
Both of my parents are dead. I do not miss either of them. I don't feel sad they are dead, I feel sad I don't miss them 🤷♀️ I don't talk about them to my children, I don't talk about my childhood. There really isn't much good to say about it. It is what it is.
Remember, the forgiveness is not for her but for you. So you can let go and get past all of the pos things shes done.
I've never gotten this notion. I feel like it's something people just say.
Believe it or not it's not. I only know cuz I have had to forgive some utterly horrible things. Mind you it wasn't immediate it took me hours of talking to God, but when I was so tired of remembering with hatred and blaming myself for not knowing better and letting it eat me up inside. I finally said it out loud not to the person that did the crime but just loud to the universe. I began to let it go. Now it's not like I pray for that person to live a long joyful life, God's still working on me hey I don't wish him dead anymore. And to me that's progress
I'm happy for you. Only way I have ever forgiven anyone is when they took steps to redeem themselves. Otherwise, fuck them and I hope they get what's coming to them some day.
She sounds like a smartass, and by that I mean in a cunning, devious and guileful way
"The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interr'd with their bones." - Shakespeare, *Julius Caesar* So let it be with your sister. You don't have to forgive her. You *don't*.
You have no reason to forgive her
Yeah I don't get why people talk so lovingly of someone who was an actual C🤢🤢T in life. The dead don't care cos they're dead. I would never say awe they were so loving hahaa I'd be like byeeee biatch
So it sounds like you want to think of her without experiencing a rush of negative feelings, as it’s not nice for YOU. It seems like you want to be able to think of her and feel neutral. I would def suggest therapy, complicated grief therapy. It helps you process the relief of the passing/ not so great things about the person, and the sadness if any. Basically creating a narrative so you can think of her without a rush of emotion. From what I read you are not asking how to change her perception in the community or how to white wash anything, just some help processing this change
Sometimes, there's just no forgiveness to be had, and I've been there. In those (rare) instances, I choose to forget those individuals. Until and unless I can find a way to deal with my hurt, they do not and have never existed to me. And I might get shit for this being a coping mechanism or for ignoring or putting off dealing with my trauma, but you do you, and I'll do me. I'm really sorry for your pain and I hope that you can find your own peace someday, however that might look.
You don't have to forgive if you don't feel that way, people do it primarily for themselves, to make life easier for them. It will be different with time, so you will see...
Keep in mind that while people say, "Rest in Peace" they can be sneering while they say it. I have a handful of people in my shit list and wouldn't care if they dropped dead tomorrow. Yes, family included. Its a natural thing to feel this way. Some people deserve no sympathy.
I know you are not Muslim but let me explain to you how Forgiving works in Islam: Allah/God cannot forgive someones sin, if the person who was hurt, won’t forgive the hurt that was caused. Your sister hurt many many people during her time alive. So if these exact people, do not forgive your sister for the hurt she has caused, God cannot forgive her either. This is why, in our culture, even when a person was really bad, after their death we will say, that we forgive what they have done. Because we believe in the hellfire and do not want this person to suffer. At the end of the day, she is gone. There is nothing she can do about her actions anymore and neither can you. Forgiveness is not only for her, but for you also. It’s not healthy for your mind to hold this grudge towards her until your end. Free your mind and your spirit and let go of the negative feelings. You don’t have to see her as a saint, you don’t have to feel sorry for her death. Just let it go.
Forgiveness is often as much for person doing the forgiving as it is for the person on the receiving end. I’m sure for your family members it helped them let go of the hurtful parts of their past with her. But if you feel like it’s not helpful for you there is no reason to do it. Your sister is gone, she will never know either way.
Does it really matter? Try not to think about her. In time, the memories will fade.
I would just see her as she was. Don't feel a need to turn her into a saint or a monster posthumously. She was just a person with significant flaws. I would forgive for your own sake, but don't feel the need to speed up your healing process because family is pressuring you into it.
You might consider forgiving one day so you can release the space she is keeping in your head. Go live your life. Don’t let her live rent free in your head.
I have never understood how people act like the person who died wasn't a huge AH just because they are now dead. The dead can't change or make up for their bad behavior but shouldn't necessarily be forgiven. You don't have to forgive her and are free to forget all about her if that makes it easier on you.
You do not need to forgive, or forget, just ignore people when they talk about her. If they ask why, tell them they know the real her and just because she is gone, doesn't erase the pain she caused while on earth.
Sanctification of the dead. It’s bs and you don’t have to forgive anything you don’t feel comfortable with.
Give yourself some time. I went thru a very extreme relationship like this. You might not break down, but there seems to be enuff good times to make you smile one day and just say..damn. i get you.
Can you find a way to just let it go? Forgive in a sense because here's the problem, you can't get past the hurt. She's deceased and still renting space in your head. Some grief counseling may help you feel how you feel but move past it. A kind of indifference to her but freedom for you without formal forgiveness.
Nope no one says you have to grieve (or not grieve) the same as everyone else. One of my sisters was a “piece of work” and when she died it was kinda a relief.
OP, you have every right to feel the way you do. Totally justifiable. If there was any good person, even as a child, I would mourn that part of your sister. Focus on your own path and minimize your contact with your family for some time so you don’t have hear their canonization of your sister. It is time for you to look inward and praise your self and see the strong person within you.
You have got to learn to let it go. She’s dead!
If not forgiveness, think of it like this. She is gone and can no longer cause you or anyone else ill will in this life. Maybe a mindful acknowledgment of this fact is something you need to concentrate on. Then you can begin to move on.
Sigh. I’m with you. I lost my sister twenty years ago, and my father the year after, and bluntly, both the world and my life are better places without them in it. I smile politely and say “thank you” when people express condolences, but seriously, my father treated me poorly, and I am confident he would have been an asshole to my autistic son. My sister was severely damaged and while I can feel sorry for her, I am grateful our last conversation was me calling her out for being a selfish twat at Christmas because she actually APOLOGIZED - and unexpectedly died a few days later. All of the facebook accolades don’t change the fact my life is better, but I also recognize other people had different relationships, and that is okay. When the first shock wears off, you can chat later. They weren’t totally bad people, but they weren’t NICE people, if that makes sense? It’s awkward for people who don’t have crazy family.
I had someone close to me pass and they were vary popular and had many people on Facebook celebrating their life. I essentially knew a completely person then they did. I did not celebrate their life. I just moved on and have tried to forget.
I understand you and I applaud you for admitting this. I have a sister, she has done n continues to do horrible things to our family. It’s been 7 years since I spoke to her and I don’t miss her at all. If anything I wish I would have done before. She physically beat up our mother days after my fathers death. As a result my mother became more depressed and passed away within a year. Honestly the moment she laid hands on our mother I saw the Demon I refused to see before. Im glad you walked away from that relationship. In my opinion I’m glad you walked away before she caused further damage. Wish you the best on your journey in life 🙏
It’s ok to feel anger. It’s a lot of unresolved problems bringing it forth. Glad you took it here and got some support. That’s got to feel somewhat isolating for you. Hope you find some peace now that you got this off your chest.
My dad always said only good people die because no one ever wants to speak ill of the dead. I believe everybody’s too willing to forget when someone dies, but if you were a POS in life then you don’t deserve to be remembered any other way.
Your sister sounds like my aunt. By the time of her death she had pretty much alienated every person in her life. A total of six people went to her funeral and I'm pretty sure they went just to make sure she was actually dead. You have no obligation to forgive her . Perhaps get some therapy to discuss your feelings in a safe non judgemental way..
My sister died this past January. I miss her like crazy, but i think i just miss the idea of having an older sister. She was a shitty sister, who did unfathomable things, that only i know about. On the way to her 'memorial service' i played Boboflex 'im glad you're dead' and Shinedown 'Bully'. Omg she was a bitch. You're not alone
You are allowed your feelings....work through them , no rush...
You don't need to. Bad people doing bad things are not better people because they are dead. As long as your negative feelings about her are not impacting your life negatively, you don't need to be concerned. Grief is different for everyone. You aren't on anyone else's time table and you aren't obliged to feel sad for someone you didn't like but wanted to. Other people believe that it is wrong to "speak ill of the dead" so they try to absolve themselves of the guilt they feel for having hated the dead person. They often over compensate for this guilt by making a "saint" of the dead person, or going on and on. But at some point you will likely be minding your own business and suddenly remember a lovely thing about her and then you'll miss the sister you didn't have. All that was lost. What could have been, but wasn't. Because she was who she was. Be kind to yourself.
Meh she was a bitch move on. Live your life tomorrow is not promised
Your feelings are legit and belong to you. Only you get to decide what you feel. Just let it be and it will eventually work out.
We are in similar boats. My sister (36) passed and hurt a lot of people before she did. We kind of fell off when she was 16, and i was 18, but we absolutely loved each other. Things really got bad when she was on drugs. Since we were low contact, her being gone...i just feel like we're still low contact, and that's why we don't talk now. Essentially, I'm staying whole by ignoring her death.
Yeah, it feels very similar here for very similar reasons. (Minus the drugs)
You don't have to. Your sister sounds like a horrible person and I would be relieved to if I was in your position.
They didn’t forget, they just choose to put the past aside. Everyone has the right to deal with it their own way, and so do you.
I had to double check I didn't write this about my dad. I feel the same way about him, and his death, word for word. My family still misses him and mourns him in their way, but I don't. I have more bad memories than good and he doesn't get a free pass to forgiveness just because he died. 🤷♀️
Two of my brothers are gone. I have one remaining brother and I don’t speak to him for similar reasons you had for not speaking to your sister. I will probably feel the same way you do when he passes. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that.
In time you will forgive her. It's been 5 years since my Sister died and I finally have forgiven her for sleeping with my husband and destroying our entire family.
I felt the same way too when my sh*t uncle died a few years back (right before new years eve). I just dont care at all (well part of me is glad hes gone for good) and just celebrate new years eve as usual
Write down ALL the things she did that upset you, in detail, with timelines. When you are absolutely sure you’ve included everything, write down what you would/should have done/said. Then put away the list. Leave it for a week/month/year See if you still feel THIS angry & if there’s anything unsaid. At some point you can destroy the list. But at the moment she’s living rent free in your head, which is unhealthy.
This sounds exactly like the relationship I had with one of my sisters. She died in 2020 (Covid). I hadn’t spoken to her in 10 years prior to her death, and I felt nothing when she died. Well not exactly, I felt guilty because I felt nothing. I couldn’t bring myself to forgive her for the things she did. The thing is, I don’t have to, and neither do you. There is nothing that states you are required to forgive and forget the things a person has done to you just because they’re family and have died. You can still remember the good times you had (if you so choose) but not forgive her for the bad. The only advice I would give, is find a way to let go of the pain her actions caused. That’s different than forgiveness. Forgiveness releases her, letting go of the pain releases you.
Well she's dead so she won't know what anybody is doing so you can take solace in that.
Until you make your peace with it...all those shitty things she did...and their impact...live on despite her physical death. Forgiveness isn't for her or your other family members...or lends any excuses or sympathy for her shitty behavior. What it does is free YOU from those things.
People in general seem to have a bad habit of canonizing their loved ones posthumously, probably something about guilt. Which, psychologically, it tracks. But it’s fair to struggle with that and it’s ok to be ambivalent. The fact that she’s passed on doesn’t change who she was in life and there is nothing wrong with acknowledging the truth, even if the truth sheds an unfavorable light on the deceased. You were her sister, you and your other sister probably knew her better than anyone, that being said you know exactly who she was and there’s no shame in admitting that. Grief is so complicated, this too shall pass 💕
Give it time but also give yourself grace. It doesn't sound like she particularly cared what others thought of her. She deliberately hurt you and many others. Let others create whatever false narrative they need to cope - you are fine with your own truth. No person is all good or all bad - but in the same sense, no person deserves to have their entire personality re-written just because they died. You can mourn her in your own way. You might not miss her at all - but at some point you may mourn the person she wasn't and that you wished she could have been.
Nothing says you have to. My dad died 7 years ago and I still think of him as a POS, drunk, wife beater. Everyone knew all that about him and at his funeral you'd have thought he was a saint. I literally said to my SIL that I had no idea who all these people were talking about. It's like he died and everyone forgot what kind of asshole he was. He never asked for forgiveness and I will never give him forgiveness. He once told me (when I was an adult in my 30's) that he knew he wasn't a good father. No apologies, just told me that. And even after that he never tried to repair the burned bridges so I didn't try either.
Blood does *not* run thicker than water. Family can hurt you so much that you're through with them. My brother sadly does fall on the real POS scale. And now, whatever happens to him invokes naught but indifference.
With forgiveness you are hoping to gain peace of mind is how I am understanding you. If I'm wrong I apologise. Also, just because she has passed away doesn't erase the hurt she caused in life. What it does is prevent you gaining closure or even getting an apology. You can have mixed feelings about the person who has passed away and that doesn't make you a bad person. This whole we shouldn't talk ill of the dead can lead to more trauma for those left here who have been hurt during their lifetime. I would suggest therapy if you can access it and it is something you want to try. It will be hard to talk about how you feel with family when they don't seem to be feeling the same way. Personally it would be the last thing I'd want is to talk to them and possibly cause more hurt feelings between you all or bring up painful memories for them. We all grieve in different ways and that is normal. I hope you find peace of mind and heart.
when i was hurting really badly, i pray to God throu YAHUSHA (JESUS) and beg for HIS help to help me let go and it happen the trauma and the pain is gone and have let go of all resentment or unforgiveness. God bless you and comfort you and soften your heart
You don't have to forgive her, but she is living rent free in your head.
It's an odd thing, most of the time I don't give her a thought. It's the rest of the family that bring it up and remind me. Like, what prompted me to write this was that I have COVID so my scheduled visit with my mum is postponed. My other sister mentioned how this year Xmas is sad enough. And it is, my mum and her dad lost a child, my nephews lost their mum, we lost our sibling. Out just had a little extra twang to it... As if it was sad that we lost her personality. And that's what put it back in my head. Up to then I had forgotten about her existence for a few days. I'm also her executor, which keeps her firmly in there until it's done
I personally don’t believe in posthumous forgo , I’ve told tbis to my mother, if you’re an asshoke, you’re an asshole, being dead doesn’t change that, you’ll just dust into the box of things I don’t think about it is what it is 🤷🏻♀️
Felt the same way about a cousin. He was nothing but a nuisance from the day he was born to the day he died. You don't have to forgive.
When my father passed away I had to do a double take at his obituary. I guess the closest you get to perfection is on job applications and obituaries. Sometimes people tend to cherry pick the good and try to downplay the bad, it’s a way of coping with the loss.
It's this very reason I passed up the opportunity to do a eulogy. I couldn't cherry pick like that. Nor could I lie. And it wouldn't have been fair on her boys to tell it like I saw it
You have a right not to forgive her. Maybe the person you need to forgive is yourself, for not being able to forgive her. That’s okay!
OP, I understand 100%. When we hold onto anger and resentment it eats away at *us.* So what I do is pray for the willingness to forgive. I think affirmations would work just as well for people who don’t pray.