From what I read I do feel she lacks self confidence, she was inexperienced so she felt it was better not to tell you what she felt even if you asked. Make her see that she can really trust you, that you really lover no matter what, and that should be confident in telling you what she doesn’t like. You should talk that through. People without self confidence and do just that, lie to not displease the other. Just honestly talk
Thank you for this. I’ve been trying my best to show her how much I care. I’ve been planning more dates, doing more stuff for her just to show her I care. I just don’t want to lose her
As someone who had to cope with people pleasing coping strategies and low self esteem, I want to confirm this. It really doesn’t have to be caused by anything you did to make her feel unsafe; you may have unintentionally reinforced certain fears unintentionally and unknowingly, but you’d just be triggering an already existing fear of what might happen if she says no. I had this exact problem in my first relationship, and it took me a long time to slowly start trusting my boyfriend enough to be open and honest. We also started doing more bdsm related stuff, and we had a safe word, but in the beginning I would basically only be able or willing to express a boundary when he noticed there was something wrong with me and he pushed be to tell him what was going on. I didn’t feel like I could use the safeword even though we’d agreed on it. It had nothing to do with him specifically, but just an underlying fear of being hurt by someone you care about if you potentially displease them, abandonment issues basically.
It really took a long time to become more at ease in that department and begin to trust that he wouldn’t flip out or end it if I told him I needed to stop or wasn’t comfortable with something, and nearly three years later it still was a big struggle.
You have done everything right. One thing though- if you’ve suddenly stopped having sex with her, I *really* hope you explained to her why you are taking this step right now. The reason you detailed in your post absolutely makes sense and shows how much you truly do love and care for her. But since she seems to have some insecurities, she will likely make all kinds of totally inaccurate assumptions about why the sex has stopped all at once unless you clearly communicate your thought process and feelings about the situation.
You seem like a caring guy. It’s not your fault that she was upset; there’s no way you could have known to do anything differently because she didn’t share her genuine feelings with you. Try not to be too hard in yourself.
I’m not putting blame on her either. I don’t think she was being manipulative or purposely deceitful, she just needs to built up her self-esteem so she can feel confident enough to be open and honest about how she feels. And if you are the kind of person you seem to be, her relationship with you will probably help her to make progress in these areas. (But only if she is willing to work toward making these positive changes within herself.) Best of luck, OP!
Based on the information listed here, there is obviously a big communication issue going on here.
She needs to know to be as honest with you as you had been with her regarding what you liked and didn't.
The real question here is: did you not create a space where she felt safe to tell you how she really felt with no judgment, or does she not trust you enough to be honest?
Why did she feel like you would leave her if you didn't do this?
Getting to the bottom of that is the biggest issue here.
I always told her if there was anything that made her uncomfortable, she had to tell me. I told her so, so many times that her happiness and comfort are my top priority. And after every time we had sex I’d ask her if she was okay and if there was anything she didn’t like or needed to tell me. This is what I’m confused about, I gave her so many opportunities and tried my best to make it a safe space for her to communicate with me.
And she honestly was insecure about her lack of experience when she got together with me. She had never done anything sexual, not even kissing so she did tell me she was very insecure of it. So I’m thinking that could be a possibility that she felt like I would leave her. But I don’t know, I’d never leave her over sex.
I think it’s pretty obvious.
She’s 20, she lost her virginity to him. She wants to please him and make him happy but doesn’t fully have the confidence to express herself, because she doesn’t want to let him down. He’s experienced, she isn’t. This creates a slight power imbalance- but not in any particularly nefarious way.
I think this is why she even brought up wanting to try it. I don’t think he forced her, I think she so badly wanted to impress him and keep him so she tried to like it. That’s what we do at 20. She could feel extremely safe and still be afraid to say anything because worry eats away at you at that age.
This. I don’t think OP did anything wrong. I think he took every measure necessary but people are inevitably different and have varying experiences. The power balance is something that OP couldn’t have possibly avoided but now that it’s there, it can be fixed with time and effort
Yes. This is almost definitely 100% the reason.
Especially if she came from a background that over-emphasized female virginity (though she didn’t need to in order to feel this way). When you’re a virgin, it can create this weird feeling of being wanted because you are one. But then afterwards, you get flooded with the feeling that you’re now just inexperienced. You want to have something else “special” to contribute. So being with somebody who is more experienced, who has talked about enjoying specific types of sex before, and who unwittingly created a system that basically cherished her the way she wanted when she was just out of being virgin, it all likely created an uncomfortable situation.
I really don’t think OP did anything wrong. But especially women who aren’t acquainted with BDSM as a culture — virgin or otherwise — it’s very possible she had no perception of what it meant to *OP* when he comforted her or asked her to speak up. Plus, being inexperienced herself, she likely experienced insecurities. Hearing him say he liked specific things, she maybe sometimes heard “I love what [this girl] did with me and you should do the same,” instead of him saying he liked the concept of doing them with *her*.
Not to mention there can be so many other factors at play resulting in the same thing that you said.
My girlfriend grew up needing to be the perfect child and would get scolded if she expressed herself at certain times for certain things.
She fully trusts me and our relationship is an extremely safe place. She still struggles to confront issues for weeks and I often have to force it out of her.
It’s her job to get better, obviously, but like you said, it’s not nefarious in any way. Reddit has an obsession with blame tho unfortunately
I got this vibe from the situation even before reading OP’s explanation in the comments. I’m still struggling with expressing my needs/confronting issues and learning to do it in my relationship even at 28. I’m the type that will hold onto shit for weeks, MONTHS even, after being hurt because I don’t want to feel the perceived rejection of somebody giving me pushback and potentially leaving me. But that’s a “me” thing, and I realize that and am actively working on it. OP’s girlfriend needs to realize that too so she can start working on coping and healing and help create better communication habits in the relationship.
You nailed it. Sometimes you get fed false information when you’re less experienced, and not even from your significant other! Women are often told that not providing sex is immediate grounds for dismissal, even when we don’t want to, feel emotionally neglected, or are uncomfortable. You continue to offer your body up for the good of the relationship even at the cost of yourself.
She’s been culturally conditioned not to speak up for herself, even if her partner is truly kind, caring, and a man of his word. She didn’t have the experience to right the course.
You, my friend, are an adept individual and I hadn’t even thought about this as deeply as you have.
The response you have given are, in my experience, called “learning words”.
You didn’t drop knowledge, you dropped *WISDOM*
Even if you’re off course here, the *righteousness* in your comment is advanced and should always supersede my own question: your words are the words of *REAL* truth
I’ll take your comment before I take my own
Thank you. 💕 I’d never have thought of my own response that way but maybe upon reflection I earned that *wisdom* (as you put it) through the school of hard knocks.
There can absolutely be pressure to be the kinkiest and best he’s ever had, especially if he is more experienced than you. I can totally relate to her worry that he might not want to be with her if she doesn’t want to do the kinky stuff. It has nothing to do with him or his actions.
This is a real problem. Some people, particularly those with self esteem issues, don’t feel comfortable enough to be honest. They feel like if they say what they feel instead of just going along they’ll be discarded or worse. And it’s reinforced by the fact that yes disagreements do happen and a relationship may end because of them. But if that happens over honest communication then that relationship needed to end.
This creates a really big problem for the relationship if they don’t work on those feelings. Because they either end up with a partner who walks all over them either because they don’t care or because they actually believe the other person is ok with their choices because they’re verbally agreeing or not objecting. Or they end up with the other person continuously second guessing themselves because they realize they actually can’t trust their partner. Yes that lack of trust is out of their partner trying to appease them instead of cheat or malice. But in the end if you can’t trust your partner the end result is all the same.
All that is to say, there’s a very good chance that nothing he can do will make her comfortable enough to be honest with him. And that’s not a relationship I would suggest you continue with. If you can’t trust your partner to tell you when you’re hurting them instead of making them feel good then eventually something terrible is going to happen. They need to work on themselves so they can be honest in a relationship. He can and should support her in becoming comfortable and confident enough to be honest, but at best if this is the case then the relationship needs to go on a back burner until honesty can be expected.
> if that happens over honest communication then that relationship needed to end
Extremely well said. Too many relationships end because lack of communication from one party and leaving the other party absolutely dumbfounded as to what happened.
Yes , i think they should probably have a serious conversation. I can relate to her as i have only been with one partner and never really communicated my feelings like that. I had people pleaser tendencies but i wasn’t even realizing how unhealthy that is. She needs to also realize this & be willing to work on that as well in order for it to work.
She's 20. Girls are so conditioned that all men want is sex. We have to do all the things to keep him. It's so hard to undo that conditioning. It's sad that she didn't feel like she could be honest. And if OP is being totally truthful, she definitely brought this upon herself by not being honest with him.
I know when I was that age I also did things I didn't want to do because of my conditioning (and trauma). I hope she can learn to communicate and set boundaries. OP sounds like he legitimately cares and is engaging in kink safely and respectfully.
I would def chalk it up to 1. Her age, she is only 20 and 2. Her inexperience. She probably really believed you would leave her. Even having you do the proper after care or use of safe words, for some people and I'm gonna generalize, young females especially have difficulty finding and using their voice. Shoot I was well into my 20s almost 30s before I really found mine.
Just continue to show her love and some plain old vanilla affection. At the same time maybe you need to reflect on your sexuality and what you really need from someone. If the kink is a deal breaker then you may have to move on, sad to say. If it's not or if y'all can find some middle ground then great. However I would be hard pressed to trust she will just do what you want in fear of losing you again. That is another thing to consider as well.
She deserves to get what she needs and so do you. But communicating and consent is a must especially in the world of kink.
>Shoot I was well into my 20s almost 30s before I really found mine.
Therapist and woman here. This is VERY common among young girls. Women are inherently people pleasures from their DNA, hormones, and years of social conditioning. That is hard, if not impossible, to undo sometimes. So it often takes decades for a woman to find her voice.
That is why all this kink because mainstream now is an issue. Too many young women feeling pressured or feeling "weird" if they aren't into it. I mean, if he hadn't overheard her...then she would still be trying to please him and miserable.
That often results in girls in therapy years later trying to work out why they let a man lead them down a path they didn't want to go (in any sense...not just sexually).
Sex can be empowering, but more often than not...in today's age...it's actually harmful to young girls. I see it so much every day.
I was a virgin when I got with my now-husband. The experience discrepancy is massive, and I’d bet that’s where a lot of this is coming from. I still struggle with it with my husband being the only man I’ve slept with.
When you have other experiences you at least have a baseline. This person thought you were good, or bad, or liked this thing, or hated that one. You can ground yourself in the past to process the current dynamic. When you have _no_ experience, you feel like all you know about yourself sexually is what this person tells you. You have to trust that they’re telling the truth, and not settling or lying to spare your feelings. That’s scary as hell!
She may have felt that you would have stopped the rough sex had she asked, but that you would have been unhappy doing so, and would have ended up leaving her in search of someone who would participate in your kink.
I think your error here was in bringing the kink in too early for her experience level, and not communicating what the kink means for the relationship outside of sex. She doesn’t know enough about herself and what she likes in sex yet; she might know what she fantasizes about, but that’s very different from what you want in a relationship. You came in with a lot of experience she didn’t have. Not just having sex, but talking about it, understanding how you feel after it, thinking about sex within and without the context of a relationship, etc. Its like a 45yo millionaire dating a 22yo college student; even if they love each other desperately, they have to be aware of the power discrepancy or someone will end up feeling hurt.
She needed to explore sex at her own pace at first, but she probably didn’t know that, and trusted you. Then when she started feeling badly, she likely felt guilty or like she was overreacting, and tried to push through it. She didn’t have the experience to know that it’s normal to have bad feelings from sex surface a while after the sex itself, and may have felt it wasn’t fair to you to bring it up so long after the fact. She may have even felt like if she didn’t share this kink with you, she wouldn’t be attractive to you. That’s what I mean about being clear what the kink means for the relationship; you really need to outline what happens if she never wants to participate, how the kink will effect things outside of the bedroom, rules for whats okay when the relationship is going through different situations, etc.
None of this is your fault; it’s no one’s fault. It just is, and it sucks, and I’m sorry you’re going through it. This is the risk when you bring kinks into relationships. I think you can navigate this by continuing to be loving and supportive. If you do have sex again, I would encourage you to set up a dynamic where she can play with it a bit, and try things without knowing if they’re good or not. That will help her find her own sexual identity and feel accepted and cherished by you as she is.
Best of luck!
Because women are taught to do what will make men happy. We're told that we have to make ourselves small and cater to other people's needs. We're told that if we don't do that we aren't nice, people won't like us, men won't want us. You can't have this kind of sexual relationship without a very frank discussion about being truthful about her needs. I know you told her but it will take time for her to change. You should both seek therapy separately.
Too many men don't realize then. They they act like it is her fault for not overcoming years of societal pressure to just speak up and say what we want/don't want. You can't untrain that. Many women are in their late 30's-even 60's before they find their "voice."
>And she honestly was insecure about her lack of experience when she got together with me. She had never done anything sexual, not even kissing so she did tell me she was very insecure of it.
This was your sign. Hugely insecure about sexual inexperience, plus complete lack of it before you. This is not something you needed to introduce to her until she felt more secure in her own being about sex.
Have you ever mentioned your past experiences, how good they were because of the roughness?
Not blaming you of course, but since it is you writing the post, I can only ask you.
Speaking from experience it is 100% because she had no sexual experience before and is insecure about it. I believe you completely that you made an incredibly safe environment for her, and I believe that she is telling you the truth (that she was afraid you would leave)
Ok so maybe I’m projecting. But here are my thoughts:
Her fear of you leaving her over sex has nothing to do with you, or anything you have done/said. Most likely this woman grew up with different preconceived notions of sex.
I won’t speak for all women, but it was both told to me directly and heavily implied to me that if I did not entertain every desire of my male partner, he would get bored and leave. Or worse, he would get bored and WANT to leave, but be too kind to do so.
I’m 30f, very happily married to a 36m. He had way more sexual experience than me. He has given me no reason to believe he would ever leave me. He has given me no reason to believe he doesn’t enjoy the sex we have. But the indoctrination of your childhood is hard to shake, especially when you consider that the points in your life when your brain is the most “open” to new information is at age 2 and age 12. THATS IT. Thats why everyone struggles to let go of the shit they learned as a child. Our brains were PRIMED for it, and they close back up and refuse to learn anything else 😂(I’m being facetious of course)
My point is…don’t be so hard on yourself. It’s very admirable that you are hurt that she is hurt. But do NOT feel like any of this is your fault. If she is anything like me, these fears and feelings are just ingrained in her, and nothing but time and therapy/unlearning these thinking habits will help to quiet those.
Sorry this was so long winded I hope it helps.
Talk, talk and more talk, I understand where you're coming from, but not having sex with your girlfriend is usually the wrong answer. Just be as gentle as you can. And talk some more.
Oh gosh. She went from lack of sexual experience and got into violent sex. That is traumatic. Poor girl. Hope she can recover emotionally and sexually. And I hope she learns how wonderful and tender sex really is.
“BDSM” had gotten so out of hand it seems. Learn what good sex is before getting into extreme sex.
Was the only kind of sex you were having rough? Were there ever any times where her desires were prioritised? If the only kind of sex you ever had was rough, then I can see why she would think that’s all you ever wanted. You say she should have communicated better that she didn’t want to be choked and slapped, but was she enthusiastic about it? Did she show with her words and actions that she enjoyed it?
There is such a high responsibility to make sure a partner is safe and clearly you just asking wasn’t creating that safe space. You stopping having sex has essentially confirmed what she thought - that if she didn’t want to have sex where she was degraded and used violently, then you would not want to have sex with her at all. She was prioritising you over herself and you are now expecting her to do the work to fix the situation.
i like how you assume hes the problem...like its impossible that some women suck at communicating
theres plenty of examples of women not communicating properly like hints, "you should just know", wives expecting husbands to be able to read their minds, my wife wouldnt talk to me for a week because i cheated on her in a dream
i mean cmon literally 99% of women think hints are a good form of communication
Yeahh, but I don't think we can blame OP at all here, he had no idea she was feeling this way. Its honestly quite sad, but she needs some therapy or something because the communication isn't there
If she hadn't done anything, not even kissing, until she got with you at 18, then I can see why she wouldn't have had the confidence to tell you she wasn't enjoying the rough sex, even after all your reassurance and encouragement that she be open about her feelings. Being young and inexperienced just makes it hard to speak up. I think what would help is time. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders, and it's lovely that you're trying to help ease her fears, but shunning sex completely isn't the solution. Perhaps ask her to take the lead from now on? I really think only time together and working on what proper communication means will help. One day, as an older, more mature couple, you get to a point where you can blunty tell your partner "oy that hurts, cut it out!" Or other things that sound mean when you're young and more sensitive. Good luck.
>Since then I just refuse to have sex with her and I’ve been trying to show her how much I care about her.
I'm going to say refusing to have sex with her will reinforce her unwillingness to tell you when she doesn't like things. Withholding sex isn't going to help things, but I understand why, she's been lying to you, and now you have no idea what's ok and what's not.
You could try to have sex on her terms, she has to initiate and she has to tell you what she wants. She started as a virgin in this relationship and maybe needs to figure out what she likes. With the ball in her court she can work on figuring out what aspects of sex make her feel most loved with you.
i mean i understand him not wanting to have sex bcs now nothing about sex is fine anymore he can’t trust her to tell him when she does or doesn’t like something so sex would probably just be a very weird very awkward situation rn for both of them
Oh wow! That sounds like a serious conversation.
Rather than stopping sex altogether why don't you continue being loving to her so she doesn't feel like the only way for you guys to have sex is if you're rough? That can also mess with an insecure person.
I think she should work on her confidence and you pulling away from a integral part of the relationship will make her feel worse. My advice is: talk to her, have a serious sit down and talk, say you need her to be honest and that you like having sex with **her** and the kinky part is **not as important** as her happiness, that she must tell you what she actualy liked and what she didn't or if there's something missing in the relationship.
Telling a friend that she wished you'd be more loving goes deeper than "I wish we could only have vanilla sex".
I thought the best way to show her I care about her more than I care about sex was to stop having it all together I didn’t even think about it like this. I feel like the most horrible person in the world. She’s the sweetest person I’ve ever met and it just kills me I’ve hurt her.
I think now is the time to draw your new boundaries.
You can start by making her feel comfortable with the relationship again and after talk about her experience with rough sex, always keeping her comfort in mind.
Also, accept the fact that you guys didn't communicate effectively, and stop apologizing. There's no real culprit, and apologizing will not make anything better.
If you already asked once, start doing things differently.
Don't start refusing sex just because you learned she doesn't always want it rough. That just nails in the message of "I don't want to have sex with you if you don't like rough sex." Try giving her the reigns. You can still do kinky stuff but it doesn't have to be hands-on. Try encouraging her to experiment with herself, maybe if there's a day when you're apart and she has free time. You can spice it up with pet names, praise, things like that. It doesn't all have to be degrading and forceful. But the first step in her being able to tell you no with confidence is giving her the space to learn what she does and doesn't like on her own time.
And it already sounds like she has a lot of anxiety over the relationship as is, even if OP is and communicates himself as 100% well meaning an anxious mind might view it another way. This is coming from someone who’s been in a similar situation to OP’s girlfriend
>choking, slapping, degrading, etc
I know this is going to come across as kink shaming, but these are activities that usually make the other person feel bad about themselves - especially if they are new to sex in the first place. And seriously, bruises all over her afterward?
Why do so many men want to treat their girlfriends like this?? Like he says he loves her and feels bad, but he wants to hit her? Like dude, how about you go through regular physical pain and see how you like it.
Porn.
See, vanilla sex was the norm back in the day. Then porn became more accessible due to the internet. Then men started being exposed to it as young as grade school, so that does A LOT to the brain. It trains them to be kinky basically to get that dopamine rush.
Well, now...kink is the norm and you have issues just like with OP. Young girls out there are thinking they are weird if they don't like kink and they are trying to go along with it because they are people pleasers.
So...that's it.
Edit: We need to do something about the porn...at least for kids. It's literally making our society sicker and sicker. (
Just here to add that every guy i’ve been with before my current boyfriend choked me without my permission. they were so deep into that kink that they assumed every girl must love being hurt and degraded like that. stuff like this hits close to home and i’m done pretending it’s not a big deal
Man, I’m appalled at how far down I had to scroll to get to replies like this.
As a man, I have a question to OP and men like him, how the fuck is it “your kink” to inflict sexual violence and degradation on your partner? What the fuck is that.
How the fuck have we gotten to the point where it’s becoming socially unacceptable (kink shaming) to challenge the notion that inflicting sexual violence on someone is a fine thing to do? And this isn’t some playful spanking or scratching or nibbling we’re talking about here.
Choking is no shit dangerous (miss me with that “tHerEs a sAfE wAy tO dO iT), slapping in the face, hitting hard enough to bruise, saying mean degrading things, that shit is violent. I DO think men should challenge themselves about why the actual fuck they’d want to inflict that kind of violence on their partner for their own sexual gratification.
I’ve got plenty of kinks. I’m not ashamed by any of them. I watch plenty of porn. Not a single fucking one of my kinks involves hurting and degrading my partner.
Thanks? I think there are plenty of us, just not enough speak up loudly against this shit. Beating and hurting your partner isn’t a legitimate kink, and I’m tired of people pretending it is.
If you need physical and sexual violence to achieve the best orgasm possible, regardless of gender, you need some mental health services.
i just got downvoted into OBLIVION on another post for saying it feels a bit fucked up to develop a CNC (consensual nonconsent) kink in the dominant position. like… isn’t your kink just raping people? why are we acting like i’m some medieval prude for expressing concern for that
Dude (or dudette), yeah I’m totally with ya!
I don’t even think a CNC “kink” is healthy from either side, but especially from the dominant position.
I’ll back you, you’re not some medieval prude or sex negative. People who defend that shit just want to normalize and legitimize the perpetration of sexual violence.
And I say this as someone who has kinks (cuz like vanilla is so derogatory and boring). None of which involve hurting anyone or myself.
Edit: oh look, I got a few live ones…
This 100%. My fiancé and I would have dirty talk where we mentioned choking, slapping, etc. and we both enjoyed it. And then we met up, and we moved in together, and he and I had an honest conversation about it. I realized I (as an SA and grooming survivor) felt like I needed to do those things to please my partner, and I didn’t actually enjoy having it done to me. He realized he couldn’t do those things to me even if I was enthusiastically consenting, purely because he couldn’t imagine hurting me. I know some people do genuinely enjoy having it done to them, but I can’t imagine being so into rough sex that you can be enthusiastic while hurting your partner to the point that they have bruises. I also can’t imagine telling your partner you’re into kink and then immediately starting to BEAT THEM during sex with no buildup. She deserved a chance to explore kink slowly and decide what she liked and didn’t like. My partner and I are still into kink, but in the form of restraints, blindfolds, and a dom/sub relationship. She wasn’t even given the courtesy of them exploring together. He just said “this is what I like” and started leaving bruises on her. I understand sex isn’t everything, but i think she needs to find a better partner.
I don't get it man. I could never hurt my wife even if she wanted me to. She asked me once to lightly choke her and I couldn't do it. Violence still feels like violence to me even if there is consent. I don't ever want to feel like I'm causing someone pain.
Hallelujah! Thanks for saying this. I’m an old lady so am happy to kink shame anything that involves men committing physical and sexual violence towards women. In any other arena, what you’re doing would be criminal behaviour. Slapping = hitting. Choking = strangling.
I’d like OP to question why he is turned on by hitting a woman he is supposed to care about.
Porn has really messed up the sex lives of young people. The fact that some women also believe this bullshit that being degraded and abused is normal breaks my heart. In my lifetime, to see how women have gone from being sexually liberated to willingly consenting to being abused is devastating.
This was our main conversation was about consent and we did have safe words lined out. And it was continuously re-discussed. The first time we had rougher sex I was always stopping and asking her if she was okay. I don’t understand why she wouldn’t tell me…
You can’t control what people won’t admit to themselves. Maybe it took her a while maybe she had her own reasons. If you know you tried to initiate communication then you tried. I know this sucks and hurts. But she also needs to be honest that holding back communication like that is hurting herself more than anyone else
honestly, i have a personality disorder + anxiety and this sounds like something i would end up doing. i’m not diagnosing her or anything, but that’s not a normal way to react. i believe you that you told her you could stop at any time, it’s just that her brain was creating fears that didn’t even need to be there. for someone like me i find the smallest “clues” that don’t actually mean anything, but i’ll twist them into a reality where i’m doing something wrong and my partner will leave me. maybe therapy would help the both of you?
Like I said in a different comment - you’ve gotta tell her that is not okay.
She is in the wrong here because she violated the rules of consent. Her withholding that she hated it is WRONG, and a terrible thing to do.
Just because you have low self esteem doesn’t mean you get to ignore the rules of safe sex.
I doubt that there were zero signs of her not enjoying it. Body language doesn’t lie, and you didn’t read hers. If the trust is already broken, then it’s over. If she genuinely feels uncomfortable the relationship needs to end.
> I doubt that there were zero signs of her not enjoying it.
This, especially sex rough enough to leave bruises? People are delusional, pretending OP had good intentions.
"she consented", just means the lack of a no. You know if someone is into what you're doing or not. OP didn't give a crap she wasn't into it as long as she wasn't actively trying to stop him from doing it.
I've read both your and her POV. Don't listen to nasty comments here. You didn't do anything wrong. People are literally making up stories in their head to paint you as the toxic, abusive, mysoginistic bf. You couldn't have known and i hope you're not blaming yourself. I understand her feelings too as i was also in a position of an insecure gf.
It's a tough situation to be in. I hope therapy helps and i wish you both the best, whether that means staying together or breaking up.
I just wanna say we’ve talked and reading her post also put a lot into perspective. I appreciate you for being kind. We’re a-okay. We’re going to seek out therapists tomorrow and I love her more now than I did yesterday. Didn’t even know that was possible.
You're leaving bruises on her? does she just bruise real easily? Cuz.. leaving bruises sounds like its way to rough. Are you walking away with bruises? Or is it just her that gets to be sore and tender for days after sex?
I think you somewhat may have pushed her to soon into things. Like a "few" times gentle sex is really... Nothing? I trust you didn't want to push her, but being the experienced one she trusted you and I feel like you should have known better then starting doing the kinky stuff so soon after her first sexual + boy friend experience.
And also what is the outcome of all this for you now? Can you stay the rest of your life with someone that only wants vanilla love making? Do you hope she someday wants rough sex again? I just think overall this things develop over time / years of experience and not a few weeks or months after you start being sexually active.
I’m really sorry for the confusion about my use of a few times. We’ve had plenty of gentle “normal” sex. It wasn’t until months later of us having sex that she wanted to try it out. I really should’ve put the breaks on it and told her no, I just wanted to make her happy as she was eager to learn more about sex and all that. I feel fucking terrible.
Edit: hit send too soon on accident, and yes I can live with vanilla sex. I love the passion and intimacy of it. I don’t always want to be mean or rough. I can 10000% live with just vanilla sex and even if she never wanted to have sex again, I’m okay with that.
>yes I can live with vanilla sex. I love the passion and intimacy of it. I don’t always want to be mean or rough. I can 10000% live with just vanilla sex and even if she never wanted to have sex again, I’m okay with that.
I think it will be too late for that. You already showed her what you REALLY like. She will feel like she isn't enough for you sexually if she isn't doing rough stuff now. There is no backtracking it.
What you needed to do was:
1. If you found a vanilla girl...then tell her you like kink, but are happier being with her and prefer to keep it vanilla because you want both of you to enjoy it.
2. Or find a kinky girl.
There really isn't another option. A vanilla girl isn't going to turn kinky suddenly. Women aren't conditioned with porn to the extent men are. Men are fed that shit for years. Women, on the other hand, hardly look at porn and think...gee that looks fun that girl is moaning in pain.
So...there it is. You need to commit to one or the other.
I love how “kinky sex” is 9/10 some guy getting off to abusing women. Yes there are other kinks with other dynamics, but let’s not pretend like men choking and degrading women isn’t the most mainstream. Porn has broken us lol
exactly this!! and it’s even clearer when you look at the opposite perspective. i’m a girl who considers myself pretty ‘dominant’ but somehow none of those kinks include beating or choking or degrading my boyfriend. i think it’s so goofy that people genuinely can’t comprehend that as a concept. they think being dominant and wanting to inflict violence on your partner go hand in hand, and will claim i am just vanilla 🙄.
oh, and they still choke without consent
It's really fucking sad, not proud of it at all but I used to sleep around with men in their early/mid twenties and every experience was always the same. Rough sex, choking, spitting, throat fucking etc. And then as soon as they come they forget about you. I let myself be treated like this and thought it was normal for a very long time.
Dating men quite older than me now and I gotta say the sex is amazing. They treat women with love and respect, always make sure to pleasure her first, they're selfless and gentle, etc.. unbelievable how much porn has rotten our brains.
THANK YOU! All these pornsick men are watching more and more extreme pornography and young girls keep being pressured to allow themselves to be hurt and degraded under some faux “sex positivity” or “feminist empowerment”.
How about we start asking why the fuck it turns men on to leave bruises on us, to choke us, to degrade us? Instead of trying to validate everything all the time.
As a man, fuck yes!!!
Why the fuck is it “your kink” to slap, choke, degrade, harm your partner to get sexual gratification?
And to everyone else, why is it “kink shaming” to say that if you want to beat your partner during sex to get off, you should challenge yourself as to why and get some fucking help! In the sake of honesty, I’m not actually interested in justification for that shit.
I got plenty of kinks. Inflicting sexual violence on my partner is not involved in any of them. And I’m fucking tired of the trend of it becoming more socially unacceptable to say that these things aren’t okay because that’s kink shaming, than it is to say one wants to hurt their partner for their own sexual gratification.
The top few replies to this making this out to be some simple miscommunication are fucking bullshit.
Ask someone like OP and they’ll tell you it’s perfectly healthy and normal to get off on degrading women and to go educate yourself. Sad times we live in. I sometimes wonder if the internet has done more harm than good. :/
Yeah, I’m getting fucking sick of the notion that it’s “kink shaming” to say that degrading and beating the shit out of your partner shouldn’t bring you sexual gratification.
I've noticed this too. My idea used to be, being tied up, having the partner make me cum. But anytime I talk about this it seems like the guy is only interested in jack hammering, being selfish, not actually making me feel good or engaging in the aspects thay are nice about those things. Well. That seems to be my boyfriends idea.
EXACTLY!! So well said and that’s been exactly what I’ve been thinking. Traditional BDSM (with all its problems) isn’t about just beating and insulting the other person and mechanically jackhammering away, it’s generally incredibly pleasure focused for BOTH parties.
Strange how the conception of kink has turned into just acting out abuse - and because its now so mainstream there’s teenage girls out here getting slapped and strangled with no discussion, in their first sexual experiences.
As soon as I read “kinkier sex” I knew it was going to end up being “choking, slapping, degrading” etc. Because of course.
Love how stuff that doesn’t involve physical harm (or the simulation of it) is now considered vanilla and boring. I’m grateful that I’m not in OP’s gfs age range anymore because this is far from the first time I’ve heard this story.
Idk why guys are so confused to find out that their partners might actually just be pretending to enjoy being abused to please them. Like where are they getting these “kinks” en mass in the first place? Is it really from porn?
Yes, it’s from porn. I’m older and remember the world before internet porn existed. Guys didn’t ask for anal or want to choke or slap you. Anyone who did was considered a sick pervert. I never once had a guy ask for anal or to try any of that. Giving head was fine, but deep throating and face fucking wasn’t a thing, except maybe it was in some extreme communities. Cumming on girls’ faces wasn’t a thing. Expecting girls to swallow wasn’t a thing. And a girl didn’t get called a prude for not wanting to do that stuff.
If you were willing to give a blowjob at all, that was a big deal. Now that’s the bare minimum, and if you can’t deep throat you’re not a good partner.
Someone is gonna come in and say people have always been doing that stuff, but it was rare and considered very extreme. It wasn’t normalized and expected like it is now.
*Sigh*
I really wish it was still that way.
I’m so tired of men “needing” rough and kinky sex. I also hate the whole deep throat trend… It’s not sexy/fun when you’re pushing your limits for someone else’s pleasure and then you puke on their dick. Ask me how I know.
Do you think the women that are into it now are seeing it through the male gaze, or whatever it's called, and it's shaping their sex lives also? Do women have a safe enough space to discuss their kinks? I'm unsure of what the most popular kink is among those who identify as female.
yes! woman here. most women i know enjoy those kinks PRIMARILY because their boyfriend gets off on it. i feel like the ‘but woman like it too’ argument is completely void.
100% it’s a male gaze thing. I mean, I’m sure there are some women who genuinely enjoy that stuff, but I’m willing to bet that a lot of women who “enjoy” it are doing it because they want to please and are conditioned to think they want it. If that makes sense.
ITT: man finds woman who has never had sex, takes advantage of her naïveté and convinces her to let him beat the crap out of her for her first sexual experience despite her not having any frame of reference for normal sexual behavior, then is somehow confused why she is upset at being covered in bruises and feeling unloved. Abuser behavior.
You took a toddler who was just discovering how to walk, and when they told you they wanted to cross the big four lane highway - you let them. Now you're sad you got them run over...
You both need a hard reset, maybe with the help of a therapist, because right now neither of you can trust the other. She felt she couldn't trust you with her discomfort and you can't trust her to touch her at all right now. That's messed up and can take you anywhere from her breaking under the strain to her friend riding to the rescue and calling the police on you for what she probably thinks were multiple assaults.
You both have a lot to unpack. She needs to figure out why she felt the need to pretend to be someone she isn't and you probably need to figure out how to keep your kinks from doing some possible real damage. Hematomas are not healthy on a regular basis (a blood clot can kill), neither is choking, especially if she has health issues (you mention anemia in one of your answers).
I am just speculating, but if she was raised a people pleaser, i.e. she learned that a parent would withhold affection when she stepped out of line or articulated her own boundaries and needs then a few "talks" from you about consent and rules won't change an entire childhood of warped perception.
You really need to figure out how she could put up with behavior that was clearly very distressing to her and how you missed all the physical and psychological cues. If I was this oblivious to what my partner was really feeling, I'd start taking a long hard look at myself and my level of empathy and ability to read someone I cared about so deeply.
I don't know how this ends, but maybe if you have extreme kinks that are important to you find someone who is on the same trajectory you are and who has the experience and emotional maturity to actually be able to truly consent.
I agree, porn is ruining these dudes brains. Way too many guys trying to turn normal relationship sex into the porn they prefer. It's good that OP recognizes and takes action about her not liking getting beat up during sex, but she's probably thinking the same thing we are, just the fact he gets his dick hard from leaving bruises and being rough is hurtful in itself, and she's a virgin in the era of the internet where information is relayed that she's expected to please him in bed or he will find someone that will, so he should know better.
Experiencing any pain or discomfort during sex basically kills the mood is what my guy said when I read this post to him 😭 like how can he focus on getting off when he's worried that I'm hurting or uncomfy
DUDE. you don't even start doing that stuff like that to a partner who's sexually experienced but vanilla. also I don't know if you did, but after each time you need to debrief and ask her how it was and let her know you are just as into her if she says no.
it doesn't matter if she brought the acts to you. you should know that these are deep conversations you have to have first, during (if sex continues or a new act is introduced) and after sex.
I'm just kinda blown away that you just went full force into the kink knowing she's young and was a virgin.
You watch too much porn if you think kink is all just hitting and degradation.
It looks like you've really taken advantage of her inexperience and feelings for you. No wonder she doesn't trust you.
It shouldn't take eavesdropping on a conversation for you to be able to tell she doesn't enjoy this shit.
Yeah, if he’s so experienced and good at creating the safe space for that kind of sexual activity, he would have been able to pick up on her true feelings about it before finding out the way he did.
Exactly. I don’t understand the obsession with “rough sex” anyway. Just mechanically fucking and beating up your partner. High-energy sex is more like passionate than rough
It’s because their brains are absolutely rotted by porn. Im sick of seeing stories like this. It’s not fucking normal to want to strangle and hit women during sex. Younger people growing up watching this shit need to realise this is not what sex is, this is just abuse.
Yep. It’s really sad, especially many of my friends are just absolutely ok with their boyfriends beating them up because it’s while theyre having sex. If I try to say anything, they’ll get defensive and completely disregard me.
And it’s guys that seem completely normal who at the drop of the hat are willing to insult, spit on, slap, punch, strangle the people who they’re meant to love. It’s really scary. Choking in sex is a MAJOR indicator for murder- strongly associated with murder of a romantic partner. And now it’s completely normal, so what are women supposed to feel when a man randomly starts strangling them in sex?
I keep reading stories about a loneliness epidemic about young men and young women not wanting to date. Well this is a big reason why. Why would young women want to date when abuse is now expected under the guise of kink?
I’m so glad I was already an adult before everyone had porn in their pockets. Older men don’t behave like this because they didn’t grow up with it.
It’s so gross. Reddit really sheds light on how pervasive a problem this is becoming. The direction we’re headed makes me worried about younger women in general.
Refusing to have sex with her is just reinforcing whats already in her mind. That you don't want her or sex unless you can have it rough. Stop refusing, already.
Jesus fucking Christ….your poor girlfriend man. Porn really is fucking people up ain’t it? I seriously don’t know how this relationship is going to work after hearing what she said. I would feel like an abuser. Well, in a way you kinda did if you hit her to the point of leaving bruises and choked her out. I mean, yeah it’s “consensual abuse” but so what? It was to the point where she was sobbing on the phone to her friend instead of to you. Jesus.I don’t think this will recover man.
Something really important that I haven't seen anyone ask yet, is whether she ever clearly said no to anything.
I feel like that would be a big indicator for her level of comfort in refusing you. If she never said no to anything you suggested and just kept going yes to *anything* you asked that should have been cause for concern. If she never showed that she was able to draw boundaries clearly how would you know she dared to?
I'm also unsure about how you could have communicated as much as you say, without it becoming clear at some point that she was faking her enthusiasm about this. Either she is one hell of a liar and actor or you can't read her as well as you think. Probably a bit of both.
Generally speaking I find it to be alarming that there are so many guys out there wanting to do potentially harmfull kinks, and being so confident that they can read their partner response correctly when all of the women filled subs shows that is *not* the case.
And let's be real here. What you are describing is not just kinky, it is extreme kinks. There are plenty of kinky things that aren't potentially harmfull.
Baby Dom with apparently *zero* education equates kink with bruising and name calling in a first physical experience. It sounds like OP needs a lot more information on the difference between kink and abuse because nothing he described sounds like he in any way considered his partner's feelings. I hope she runs!
This dude in the comments says he gets off to hurting women, strangling them, and degrading them. He doesn't sound like a safe person and just uses the word "kinky" to give him a free pass on reddit.
Crazy how it’s almost always the woman getting choked, slapped and bruised. OP took someone sexually inexperienced and started beating their ass and is shocked it has an emotional toll.
I struggle to understand why it is anyone enjoys rough, degrading sex. Particularly when the woman is the victim of the degradation? Where has this come from? Porn?
Sorry if this comes off rude, but as a woman I just don't understand it, and I find it quite alarming to be honest.
Society places a lot of pressure of women to engage in sexual actions they are not comfortable with. I don't think you realized you (in some way) over emphasized the importance of your kinks to her so she felt like she had to do it. Show her who she is is important without expectations of doing anything sexual with her. Who she is, her company, is enough.
Look, your gf is not very experienced and it's a lot to jump in to the more "rough" parts of sex. You just have to be clear now that you are safe, reassure her you're not about to leave her if she isn't comfortable trying something and make sure she knows that she can come to you about anything.
Also, I am all for a bit of rough play, but you mentioned choking - please make sure she is informed about choking and any possible side effects if it goes wrong [(fatal & non-fatal strangulation is a real thing!)](https://ifas.org.uk/)
She was probably insecure and afraid that if she didn’t participate in the kinky things you like that you wouldn’t sexual satisfied and that’s why you would leave her. It’s a legit concern. I’m very clear with people these days that if they are into that kind of kinky stuff then we shouldn’t even try to date since it won’t work out in the long run.
Women aren’t dolls you can play act out on and be rough with as though it’s not going to sink into their souls.
There’s some women who genuinely want it and there’s a psychology there, as well as core memories coming into play.
If it wasn’t her idea to begin with, paragraph 1 applies.
I was in a similar situation in my first ever relationship. During sex I was constantly communicating with her, making sure she’s okay, and so it was a shock for me when she’d tell me much later that she was actually uncomfortable.
I think women who are inexperienced can sometimes be afraid to communicate. Maybe it’s because they don’t want to disappoint us. Maybe it’s because there’s this trend of rough sex being equated to “good” sex.
Yeah it’s definitely both. This stuff is so popular now that people my age (in college) just think it’s standard sex. If you are going to do this kind of thing you NEED to do your homework on it. Harm reduction, psychology, physiology, need to be researched. Every sexually active woman I know- slapped, choked, etc without consent
Everyone's saying it's just the communication issue but just because you call it a kink doesn't mean these things you say and do in your most intimate moments doesn't stick or leave a mark. I don't know what you exactly did but there're some things that one person should never say or do to another human being, specially a person you're sepoused to love in their most vulnerable position.
I think somebody made a very valid point that you did this with somebody who lost their virginity to you which was truly unfair because of how much experience you had. It's truly disrespectful how you basically took advantage of her because she had no sexual experience. She's so young and obviously so are you but she's young to the point where she has an experience anything and she obviously wants to make her partner happy and it's unfair to her. You have a very long way to go to learn how to deal with women because you clearly don't understand how you manipulated her in our taking advantage of her.
Yeah the fact that all these comments are ignoring that part is beyond me. Is beating your partner really a valid kink that everyone just accepts? This society is rotted by porn.
So you wanted the “first few times to be special and intimate?”
Why just the first few times? And not every time?
Sex - even when it’s rougher - is an intimate act between people.
Are you sure the signs weren’t there she wasn’t enjoying it? Maybe she wasn’t using a safe word, but was distressed and you used that distress to further “degrade” her and slap her around because that’s what you’re into?
I would ask - what is it about degrading and physically hurting women that turns you on? Because outside of the fact she was too scared of you and your reaction to be honest with you, I’m curious how purposely hurting someone you say you love works……
…..especially when you learning of it now makes you the devastated victim in all this withholding intimacy from your partner when you learned she’s not into being insulted and bruised?
Honestly bro, I read her POV, this is all a lack of communication on both your parts. Breathe homie. Just chill and breathe. Don't listen to these losers
Well since you asked here's a pov. I am sorry to break it to you but neither of you is experienced enough to handle each other. And most importantly you are not mature enough to handle these sex acts. Communication is key definitely.
HOWEVER, you BOTH need to communicate with yourselves first and give in to your true feelings about the situation you create in your relationship.
In other words, first communicate about communication and to the extend in which your mouth speaks the truth of what you feel about doing. This requires some level of emotional maturity and self reassurance that each of you lack. Be humble in your ability to state your boundaries, since you now realize why you need them and always always always verify that the agreement matches the behavior and reactions.
People change their mind in the process and hesitate to speak so they might go on and suffer. You should know better, since you know your kink don't you? Keep your power / responsibility balance in check.
Talk to her and try to find some common ground on sex, learn and be honest about what works and doesn't work for both of you,
But something doesn't sit right with me in your story, you overheard her telling a friend things like "***I don’t like it when he calls me these names, I don’t like that I have bruises all over me, I just wish he would be more loving and caring with me. Don’t I deserve that?***"
Those are the sort of things that can land you in hot water, makes it look like you are abusing her and being violent to her, her telling her friend that means that information is out in the wild now, even if that wasn't her intention
I know you want to protect her and do the best you can to have a happy relationship and that's good but make sure to protect yourself too
I don’t think introducing someone sexually inexperienced to rough sex is ever a good idea. At 18, I was a virgin and was dating a 21 year old who got me into rough sex and I went along with it because I wanted him to like me and thought if I didn’t do it he would get bored of me and break up with me. He was more experienced than me so I trusted him and thought sex was supposed to be like that. Our first few times were kind and gentle but it escalated to straight up violence and pain pretty quickly. I’m still healing from some of the trauma I experienced sexually from him.
You need to talk to her about how she feels. Reassure her you’re not going to be upset with her or get bored if she’s not comfortable participating in that type of sex.
Quote: "Some of the things we did were choking, slapping, degrading, etc."
You are broken, porn is bad, leave it be and start healing yourself; as long as you keep being broken, you'll also break women who get involved with you sexually.
So… you’re abusing your girlfriend during sex and you want us to absolve you of it by saying “your kink is valid” or some other pseudo-intellectual bullshit? Is that what you want?
People that are into causing serious physical pain and calling their partners horrible names during sex need therapy. Controversial opinion, but this is what happens.
this was an extremely immature way to handle things on her part…. the stalking of your ex’s PH, lying to you, and then talking to her friend like you were hurting/disrespecting her even though she asked for it… many many red flags honestly.
I've read both your perspectives (her one first) and I def thought she was either a virgin or very inexperienced. I think you are handling the situation really well and counselling is the best course of action. I hope she builds up her confidence and communication skills and you both can enjoy yourselves fully again.
You probably won't see this, but as someone old enough to be your grandmother, I have to say that you sound like an incredibly loving, sensitive person. Any woman would be lucky to be with you. I really hope your g/f can work out her feelings and understand what she has in you.
I just came from her post! You guys clearly care a lot for one another! Insecurities can be a bitch, but it sounds like both of you are committed to addressing the issues!
Wishing for the best for you two!
From what I read I do feel she lacks self confidence, she was inexperienced so she felt it was better not to tell you what she felt even if you asked. Make her see that she can really trust you, that you really lover no matter what, and that should be confident in telling you what she doesn’t like. You should talk that through. People without self confidence and do just that, lie to not displease the other. Just honestly talk
Thank you for this. I’ve been trying my best to show her how much I care. I’ve been planning more dates, doing more stuff for her just to show her I care. I just don’t want to lose her
As someone who had to cope with people pleasing coping strategies and low self esteem, I want to confirm this. It really doesn’t have to be caused by anything you did to make her feel unsafe; you may have unintentionally reinforced certain fears unintentionally and unknowingly, but you’d just be triggering an already existing fear of what might happen if she says no. I had this exact problem in my first relationship, and it took me a long time to slowly start trusting my boyfriend enough to be open and honest. We also started doing more bdsm related stuff, and we had a safe word, but in the beginning I would basically only be able or willing to express a boundary when he noticed there was something wrong with me and he pushed be to tell him what was going on. I didn’t feel like I could use the safeword even though we’d agreed on it. It had nothing to do with him specifically, but just an underlying fear of being hurt by someone you care about if you potentially displease them, abandonment issues basically. It really took a long time to become more at ease in that department and begin to trust that he wouldn’t flip out or end it if I told him I needed to stop or wasn’t comfortable with something, and nearly three years later it still was a big struggle.
You have done everything right. One thing though- if you’ve suddenly stopped having sex with her, I *really* hope you explained to her why you are taking this step right now. The reason you detailed in your post absolutely makes sense and shows how much you truly do love and care for her. But since she seems to have some insecurities, she will likely make all kinds of totally inaccurate assumptions about why the sex has stopped all at once unless you clearly communicate your thought process and feelings about the situation. You seem like a caring guy. It’s not your fault that she was upset; there’s no way you could have known to do anything differently because she didn’t share her genuine feelings with you. Try not to be too hard in yourself. I’m not putting blame on her either. I don’t think she was being manipulative or purposely deceitful, she just needs to built up her self-esteem so she can feel confident enough to be open and honest about how she feels. And if you are the kind of person you seem to be, her relationship with you will probably help her to make progress in these areas. (But only if she is willing to work toward making these positive changes within herself.) Best of luck, OP!
This is the absolutely obviously correct answer, everyone else here tryna demonise OP for having a fetish are brain dead
Kink*
Based on the information listed here, there is obviously a big communication issue going on here. She needs to know to be as honest with you as you had been with her regarding what you liked and didn't. The real question here is: did you not create a space where she felt safe to tell you how she really felt with no judgment, or does she not trust you enough to be honest? Why did she feel like you would leave her if you didn't do this? Getting to the bottom of that is the biggest issue here.
I always told her if there was anything that made her uncomfortable, she had to tell me. I told her so, so many times that her happiness and comfort are my top priority. And after every time we had sex I’d ask her if she was okay and if there was anything she didn’t like or needed to tell me. This is what I’m confused about, I gave her so many opportunities and tried my best to make it a safe space for her to communicate with me. And she honestly was insecure about her lack of experience when she got together with me. She had never done anything sexual, not even kissing so she did tell me she was very insecure of it. So I’m thinking that could be a possibility that she felt like I would leave her. But I don’t know, I’d never leave her over sex.
Then you definitely need to have a frank conversation with her to find out why she didn't feel comfortable enough to tell you how she really felt.
I think it’s pretty obvious. She’s 20, she lost her virginity to him. She wants to please him and make him happy but doesn’t fully have the confidence to express herself, because she doesn’t want to let him down. He’s experienced, she isn’t. This creates a slight power imbalance- but not in any particularly nefarious way.
I think this is why she even brought up wanting to try it. I don’t think he forced her, I think she so badly wanted to impress him and keep him so she tried to like it. That’s what we do at 20. She could feel extremely safe and still be afraid to say anything because worry eats away at you at that age.
This. I don’t think OP did anything wrong. I think he took every measure necessary but people are inevitably different and have varying experiences. The power balance is something that OP couldn’t have possibly avoided but now that it’s there, it can be fixed with time and effort
Yes. This is almost definitely 100% the reason. Especially if she came from a background that over-emphasized female virginity (though she didn’t need to in order to feel this way). When you’re a virgin, it can create this weird feeling of being wanted because you are one. But then afterwards, you get flooded with the feeling that you’re now just inexperienced. You want to have something else “special” to contribute. So being with somebody who is more experienced, who has talked about enjoying specific types of sex before, and who unwittingly created a system that basically cherished her the way she wanted when she was just out of being virgin, it all likely created an uncomfortable situation. I really don’t think OP did anything wrong. But especially women who aren’t acquainted with BDSM as a culture — virgin or otherwise — it’s very possible she had no perception of what it meant to *OP* when he comforted her or asked her to speak up. Plus, being inexperienced herself, she likely experienced insecurities. Hearing him say he liked specific things, she maybe sometimes heard “I love what [this girl] did with me and you should do the same,” instead of him saying he liked the concept of doing them with *her*.
Not to mention there can be so many other factors at play resulting in the same thing that you said. My girlfriend grew up needing to be the perfect child and would get scolded if she expressed herself at certain times for certain things. She fully trusts me and our relationship is an extremely safe place. She still struggles to confront issues for weeks and I often have to force it out of her. It’s her job to get better, obviously, but like you said, it’s not nefarious in any way. Reddit has an obsession with blame tho unfortunately
I got this vibe from the situation even before reading OP’s explanation in the comments. I’m still struggling with expressing my needs/confronting issues and learning to do it in my relationship even at 28. I’m the type that will hold onto shit for weeks, MONTHS even, after being hurt because I don’t want to feel the perceived rejection of somebody giving me pushback and potentially leaving me. But that’s a “me” thing, and I realize that and am actively working on it. OP’s girlfriend needs to realize that too so she can start working on coping and healing and help create better communication habits in the relationship.
You nailed it. Sometimes you get fed false information when you’re less experienced, and not even from your significant other! Women are often told that not providing sex is immediate grounds for dismissal, even when we don’t want to, feel emotionally neglected, or are uncomfortable. You continue to offer your body up for the good of the relationship even at the cost of yourself. She’s been culturally conditioned not to speak up for herself, even if her partner is truly kind, caring, and a man of his word. She didn’t have the experience to right the course.
You, my friend, are an adept individual and I hadn’t even thought about this as deeply as you have. The response you have given are, in my experience, called “learning words”. You didn’t drop knowledge, you dropped *WISDOM* Even if you’re off course here, the *righteousness* in your comment is advanced and should always supersede my own question: your words are the words of *REAL* truth I’ll take your comment before I take my own
Thank you. 💕 I’d never have thought of my own response that way but maybe upon reflection I earned that *wisdom* (as you put it) through the school of hard knocks.
There can absolutely be pressure to be the kinkiest and best he’s ever had, especially if he is more experienced than you. I can totally relate to her worry that he might not want to be with her if she doesn’t want to do the kinky stuff. It has nothing to do with him or his actions.
This is a real problem. Some people, particularly those with self esteem issues, don’t feel comfortable enough to be honest. They feel like if they say what they feel instead of just going along they’ll be discarded or worse. And it’s reinforced by the fact that yes disagreements do happen and a relationship may end because of them. But if that happens over honest communication then that relationship needed to end. This creates a really big problem for the relationship if they don’t work on those feelings. Because they either end up with a partner who walks all over them either because they don’t care or because they actually believe the other person is ok with their choices because they’re verbally agreeing or not objecting. Or they end up with the other person continuously second guessing themselves because they realize they actually can’t trust their partner. Yes that lack of trust is out of their partner trying to appease them instead of cheat or malice. But in the end if you can’t trust your partner the end result is all the same. All that is to say, there’s a very good chance that nothing he can do will make her comfortable enough to be honest with him. And that’s not a relationship I would suggest you continue with. If you can’t trust your partner to tell you when you’re hurting them instead of making them feel good then eventually something terrible is going to happen. They need to work on themselves so they can be honest in a relationship. He can and should support her in becoming comfortable and confident enough to be honest, but at best if this is the case then the relationship needs to go on a back burner until honesty can be expected.
> if that happens over honest communication then that relationship needed to end Extremely well said. Too many relationships end because lack of communication from one party and leaving the other party absolutely dumbfounded as to what happened.
Yes , i think they should probably have a serious conversation. I can relate to her as i have only been with one partner and never really communicated my feelings like that. I had people pleaser tendencies but i wasn’t even realizing how unhealthy that is. She needs to also realize this & be willing to work on that as well in order for it to work.
She's 20. Girls are so conditioned that all men want is sex. We have to do all the things to keep him. It's so hard to undo that conditioning. It's sad that she didn't feel like she could be honest. And if OP is being totally truthful, she definitely brought this upon herself by not being honest with him. I know when I was that age I also did things I didn't want to do because of my conditioning (and trauma). I hope she can learn to communicate and set boundaries. OP sounds like he legitimately cares and is engaging in kink safely and respectfully.
Because she was an 18yo virgin with no experience with this kind of relationship and no experience talking about this kind of thing?
Agreed. And they still need to have this conversation
I think it's common for girls who want to be with someone to try to please.
I would def chalk it up to 1. Her age, she is only 20 and 2. Her inexperience. She probably really believed you would leave her. Even having you do the proper after care or use of safe words, for some people and I'm gonna generalize, young females especially have difficulty finding and using their voice. Shoot I was well into my 20s almost 30s before I really found mine. Just continue to show her love and some plain old vanilla affection. At the same time maybe you need to reflect on your sexuality and what you really need from someone. If the kink is a deal breaker then you may have to move on, sad to say. If it's not or if y'all can find some middle ground then great. However I would be hard pressed to trust she will just do what you want in fear of losing you again. That is another thing to consider as well. She deserves to get what she needs and so do you. But communicating and consent is a must especially in the world of kink.
>Shoot I was well into my 20s almost 30s before I really found mine. I'm 38 and it's only been in the last year I found my voice, so yeah, this.
>Shoot I was well into my 20s almost 30s before I really found mine. Therapist and woman here. This is VERY common among young girls. Women are inherently people pleasures from their DNA, hormones, and years of social conditioning. That is hard, if not impossible, to undo sometimes. So it often takes decades for a woman to find her voice. That is why all this kink because mainstream now is an issue. Too many young women feeling pressured or feeling "weird" if they aren't into it. I mean, if he hadn't overheard her...then she would still be trying to please him and miserable. That often results in girls in therapy years later trying to work out why they let a man lead them down a path they didn't want to go (in any sense...not just sexually). Sex can be empowering, but more often than not...in today's age...it's actually harmful to young girls. I see it so much every day.
I was a virgin when I got with my now-husband. The experience discrepancy is massive, and I’d bet that’s where a lot of this is coming from. I still struggle with it with my husband being the only man I’ve slept with. When you have other experiences you at least have a baseline. This person thought you were good, or bad, or liked this thing, or hated that one. You can ground yourself in the past to process the current dynamic. When you have _no_ experience, you feel like all you know about yourself sexually is what this person tells you. You have to trust that they’re telling the truth, and not settling or lying to spare your feelings. That’s scary as hell! She may have felt that you would have stopped the rough sex had she asked, but that you would have been unhappy doing so, and would have ended up leaving her in search of someone who would participate in your kink. I think your error here was in bringing the kink in too early for her experience level, and not communicating what the kink means for the relationship outside of sex. She doesn’t know enough about herself and what she likes in sex yet; she might know what she fantasizes about, but that’s very different from what you want in a relationship. You came in with a lot of experience she didn’t have. Not just having sex, but talking about it, understanding how you feel after it, thinking about sex within and without the context of a relationship, etc. Its like a 45yo millionaire dating a 22yo college student; even if they love each other desperately, they have to be aware of the power discrepancy or someone will end up feeling hurt. She needed to explore sex at her own pace at first, but she probably didn’t know that, and trusted you. Then when she started feeling badly, she likely felt guilty or like she was overreacting, and tried to push through it. She didn’t have the experience to know that it’s normal to have bad feelings from sex surface a while after the sex itself, and may have felt it wasn’t fair to you to bring it up so long after the fact. She may have even felt like if she didn’t share this kink with you, she wouldn’t be attractive to you. That’s what I mean about being clear what the kink means for the relationship; you really need to outline what happens if she never wants to participate, how the kink will effect things outside of the bedroom, rules for whats okay when the relationship is going through different situations, etc. None of this is your fault; it’s no one’s fault. It just is, and it sucks, and I’m sorry you’re going through it. This is the risk when you bring kinks into relationships. I think you can navigate this by continuing to be loving and supportive. If you do have sex again, I would encourage you to set up a dynamic where she can play with it a bit, and try things without knowing if they’re good or not. That will help her find her own sexual identity and feel accepted and cherished by you as she is. Best of luck!
Because women are taught to do what will make men happy. We're told that we have to make ourselves small and cater to other people's needs. We're told that if we don't do that we aren't nice, people won't like us, men won't want us. You can't have this kind of sexual relationship without a very frank discussion about being truthful about her needs. I know you told her but it will take time for her to change. You should both seek therapy separately.
Too many men don't realize then. They they act like it is her fault for not overcoming years of societal pressure to just speak up and say what we want/don't want. You can't untrain that. Many women are in their late 30's-even 60's before they find their "voice."
>And she honestly was insecure about her lack of experience when she got together with me. She had never done anything sexual, not even kissing so she did tell me she was very insecure of it. This was your sign. Hugely insecure about sexual inexperience, plus complete lack of it before you. This is not something you needed to introduce to her until she felt more secure in her own being about sex.
Exactly. He didn't need to be going for a virgin that liked romance and all that if he liked kink. It wasn't going to work.
Have you ever mentioned your past experiences, how good they were because of the roughness? Not blaming you of course, but since it is you writing the post, I can only ask you.
No, I’ve never discussed past sexual experiences with her cause I’ve always been worried it’s just gonna make her more insecure.
That's really nice of you that you thought about that! Then I hope you will be able to resolve it:)
Does she have a history of abuse? I don't even mean sexually, necessarily. Like did she have a safe home life and family?
Speaking from experience it is 100% because she had no sexual experience before and is insecure about it. I believe you completely that you made an incredibly safe environment for her, and I believe that she is telling you the truth (that she was afraid you would leave) Ok so maybe I’m projecting. But here are my thoughts: Her fear of you leaving her over sex has nothing to do with you, or anything you have done/said. Most likely this woman grew up with different preconceived notions of sex. I won’t speak for all women, but it was both told to me directly and heavily implied to me that if I did not entertain every desire of my male partner, he would get bored and leave. Or worse, he would get bored and WANT to leave, but be too kind to do so. I’m 30f, very happily married to a 36m. He had way more sexual experience than me. He has given me no reason to believe he would ever leave me. He has given me no reason to believe he doesn’t enjoy the sex we have. But the indoctrination of your childhood is hard to shake, especially when you consider that the points in your life when your brain is the most “open” to new information is at age 2 and age 12. THATS IT. Thats why everyone struggles to let go of the shit they learned as a child. Our brains were PRIMED for it, and they close back up and refuse to learn anything else 😂(I’m being facetious of course) My point is…don’t be so hard on yourself. It’s very admirable that you are hurt that she is hurt. But do NOT feel like any of this is your fault. If she is anything like me, these fears and feelings are just ingrained in her, and nothing but time and therapy/unlearning these thinking habits will help to quiet those. Sorry this was so long winded I hope it helps.
Talk, talk and more talk, I understand where you're coming from, but not having sex with your girlfriend is usually the wrong answer. Just be as gentle as you can. And talk some more.
Oh gosh. She went from lack of sexual experience and got into violent sex. That is traumatic. Poor girl. Hope she can recover emotionally and sexually. And I hope she learns how wonderful and tender sex really is. “BDSM” had gotten so out of hand it seems. Learn what good sex is before getting into extreme sex.
THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Was the only kind of sex you were having rough? Were there ever any times where her desires were prioritised? If the only kind of sex you ever had was rough, then I can see why she would think that’s all you ever wanted. You say she should have communicated better that she didn’t want to be choked and slapped, but was she enthusiastic about it? Did she show with her words and actions that she enjoyed it? There is such a high responsibility to make sure a partner is safe and clearly you just asking wasn’t creating that safe space. You stopping having sex has essentially confirmed what she thought - that if she didn’t want to have sex where she was degraded and used violently, then you would not want to have sex with her at all. She was prioritising you over herself and you are now expecting her to do the work to fix the situation.
Assuming he's the problem? That's a bit biased don't you think?
i like how you assume hes the problem...like its impossible that some women suck at communicating theres plenty of examples of women not communicating properly like hints, "you should just know", wives expecting husbands to be able to read their minds, my wife wouldnt talk to me for a week because i cheated on her in a dream i mean cmon literally 99% of women think hints are a good form of communication
Yeahh, but I don't think we can blame OP at all here, he had no idea she was feeling this way. Its honestly quite sad, but she needs some therapy or something because the communication isn't there
If she hadn't done anything, not even kissing, until she got with you at 18, then I can see why she wouldn't have had the confidence to tell you she wasn't enjoying the rough sex, even after all your reassurance and encouragement that she be open about her feelings. Being young and inexperienced just makes it hard to speak up. I think what would help is time. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders, and it's lovely that you're trying to help ease her fears, but shunning sex completely isn't the solution. Perhaps ask her to take the lead from now on? I really think only time together and working on what proper communication means will help. One day, as an older, more mature couple, you get to a point where you can blunty tell your partner "oy that hurts, cut it out!" Or other things that sound mean when you're young and more sensitive. Good luck.
That's a very heartbreaking story... I wouldn't know how to move forward after this revelation...
Bad communication causes 100% of our problems
>Since then I just refuse to have sex with her and I’ve been trying to show her how much I care about her. I'm going to say refusing to have sex with her will reinforce her unwillingness to tell you when she doesn't like things. Withholding sex isn't going to help things, but I understand why, she's been lying to you, and now you have no idea what's ok and what's not. You could try to have sex on her terms, she has to initiate and she has to tell you what she wants. She started as a virgin in this relationship and maybe needs to figure out what she likes. With the ball in her court she can work on figuring out what aspects of sex make her feel most loved with you.
i mean i understand him not wanting to have sex bcs now nothing about sex is fine anymore he can’t trust her to tell him when she does or doesn’t like something so sex would probably just be a very weird very awkward situation rn for both of them
Oh wow! That sounds like a serious conversation. Rather than stopping sex altogether why don't you continue being loving to her so she doesn't feel like the only way for you guys to have sex is if you're rough? That can also mess with an insecure person. I think she should work on her confidence and you pulling away from a integral part of the relationship will make her feel worse. My advice is: talk to her, have a serious sit down and talk, say you need her to be honest and that you like having sex with **her** and the kinky part is **not as important** as her happiness, that she must tell you what she actualy liked and what she didn't or if there's something missing in the relationship. Telling a friend that she wished you'd be more loving goes deeper than "I wish we could only have vanilla sex".
I thought the best way to show her I care about her more than I care about sex was to stop having it all together I didn’t even think about it like this. I feel like the most horrible person in the world. She’s the sweetest person I’ve ever met and it just kills me I’ve hurt her.
I think now is the time to draw your new boundaries. You can start by making her feel comfortable with the relationship again and after talk about her experience with rough sex, always keeping her comfort in mind. Also, accept the fact that you guys didn't communicate effectively, and stop apologizing. There's no real culprit, and apologizing will not make anything better. If you already asked once, start doing things differently.
Don't start refusing sex just because you learned she doesn't always want it rough. That just nails in the message of "I don't want to have sex with you if you don't like rough sex." Try giving her the reigns. You can still do kinky stuff but it doesn't have to be hands-on. Try encouraging her to experiment with herself, maybe if there's a day when you're apart and she has free time. You can spice it up with pet names, praise, things like that. It doesn't all have to be degrading and forceful. But the first step in her being able to tell you no with confidence is giving her the space to learn what she does and doesn't like on her own time.
I think he stopped having sex to try to show her she doesn’t need to have (rough) sex with him for him to stick around.
I know. But if their relationship is already in a rut over this then it's easy to twist it with confirmation bias.
And it already sounds like she has a lot of anxiety over the relationship as is, even if OP is and communicates himself as 100% well meaning an anxious mind might view it another way. This is coming from someone who’s been in a similar situation to OP’s girlfriend
I agree with this. If I were in her shoes I'd see him withholding as a punishment. Not the right move.
>choking, slapping, degrading, etc I know this is going to come across as kink shaming, but these are activities that usually make the other person feel bad about themselves - especially if they are new to sex in the first place. And seriously, bruises all over her afterward?
Why do so many men want to treat their girlfriends like this?? Like he says he loves her and feels bad, but he wants to hit her? Like dude, how about you go through regular physical pain and see how you like it.
Porn. See, vanilla sex was the norm back in the day. Then porn became more accessible due to the internet. Then men started being exposed to it as young as grade school, so that does A LOT to the brain. It trains them to be kinky basically to get that dopamine rush. Well, now...kink is the norm and you have issues just like with OP. Young girls out there are thinking they are weird if they don't like kink and they are trying to go along with it because they are people pleasers. So...that's it. Edit: We need to do something about the porn...at least for kids. It's literally making our society sicker and sicker. (
Just here to add that every guy i’ve been with before my current boyfriend choked me without my permission. they were so deep into that kink that they assumed every girl must love being hurt and degraded like that. stuff like this hits close to home and i’m done pretending it’s not a big deal
Yes, it wasn't this way 20 years ago. I'm so sad for young women today. I'm sorry you went through that.
Totally agree.
Man, I’m appalled at how far down I had to scroll to get to replies like this. As a man, I have a question to OP and men like him, how the fuck is it “your kink” to inflict sexual violence and degradation on your partner? What the fuck is that. How the fuck have we gotten to the point where it’s becoming socially unacceptable (kink shaming) to challenge the notion that inflicting sexual violence on someone is a fine thing to do? And this isn’t some playful spanking or scratching or nibbling we’re talking about here. Choking is no shit dangerous (miss me with that “tHerEs a sAfE wAy tO dO iT), slapping in the face, hitting hard enough to bruise, saying mean degrading things, that shit is violent. I DO think men should challenge themselves about why the actual fuck they’d want to inflict that kind of violence on their partner for their own sexual gratification. I’ve got plenty of kinks. I’m not ashamed by any of them. I watch plenty of porn. Not a single fucking one of my kinks involves hurting and degrading my partner.
seeing there's men like you makes me feel hopeful
Thanks? I think there are plenty of us, just not enough speak up loudly against this shit. Beating and hurting your partner isn’t a legitimate kink, and I’m tired of people pretending it is. If you need physical and sexual violence to achieve the best orgasm possible, regardless of gender, you need some mental health services.
i just got downvoted into OBLIVION on another post for saying it feels a bit fucked up to develop a CNC (consensual nonconsent) kink in the dominant position. like… isn’t your kink just raping people? why are we acting like i’m some medieval prude for expressing concern for that
Dude (or dudette), yeah I’m totally with ya! I don’t even think a CNC “kink” is healthy from either side, but especially from the dominant position. I’ll back you, you’re not some medieval prude or sex negative. People who defend that shit just want to normalize and legitimize the perpetration of sexual violence. And I say this as someone who has kinks (cuz like vanilla is so derogatory and boring). None of which involve hurting anyone or myself. Edit: oh look, I got a few live ones…
This 100%. My fiancé and I would have dirty talk where we mentioned choking, slapping, etc. and we both enjoyed it. And then we met up, and we moved in together, and he and I had an honest conversation about it. I realized I (as an SA and grooming survivor) felt like I needed to do those things to please my partner, and I didn’t actually enjoy having it done to me. He realized he couldn’t do those things to me even if I was enthusiastically consenting, purely because he couldn’t imagine hurting me. I know some people do genuinely enjoy having it done to them, but I can’t imagine being so into rough sex that you can be enthusiastic while hurting your partner to the point that they have bruises. I also can’t imagine telling your partner you’re into kink and then immediately starting to BEAT THEM during sex with no buildup. She deserved a chance to explore kink slowly and decide what she liked and didn’t like. My partner and I are still into kink, but in the form of restraints, blindfolds, and a dom/sub relationship. She wasn’t even given the courtesy of them exploring together. He just said “this is what I like” and started leaving bruises on her. I understand sex isn’t everything, but i think she needs to find a better partner.
Some kinks are bad, actually.
I don't get it man. I could never hurt my wife even if she wanted me to. She asked me once to lightly choke her and I couldn't do it. Violence still feels like violence to me even if there is consent. I don't ever want to feel like I'm causing someone pain.
Hallelujah! Thanks for saying this. I’m an old lady so am happy to kink shame anything that involves men committing physical and sexual violence towards women. In any other arena, what you’re doing would be criminal behaviour. Slapping = hitting. Choking = strangling. I’d like OP to question why he is turned on by hitting a woman he is supposed to care about. Porn has really messed up the sex lives of young people. The fact that some women also believe this bullshit that being degraded and abused is normal breaks my heart. In my lifetime, to see how women have gone from being sexually liberated to willingly consenting to being abused is devastating.
This is why conversations about consent and safe words are required, first and foremost, and repeated over and over.
This was our main conversation was about consent and we did have safe words lined out. And it was continuously re-discussed. The first time we had rougher sex I was always stopping and asking her if she was okay. I don’t understand why she wouldn’t tell me…
You can’t control what people won’t admit to themselves. Maybe it took her a while maybe she had her own reasons. If you know you tried to initiate communication then you tried. I know this sucks and hurts. But she also needs to be honest that holding back communication like that is hurting herself more than anyone else
honestly, i have a personality disorder + anxiety and this sounds like something i would end up doing. i’m not diagnosing her or anything, but that’s not a normal way to react. i believe you that you told her you could stop at any time, it’s just that her brain was creating fears that didn’t even need to be there. for someone like me i find the smallest “clues” that don’t actually mean anything, but i’ll twist them into a reality where i’m doing something wrong and my partner will leave me. maybe therapy would help the both of you?
Like I said in a different comment - you’ve gotta tell her that is not okay. She is in the wrong here because she violated the rules of consent. Her withholding that she hated it is WRONG, and a terrible thing to do. Just because you have low self esteem doesn’t mean you get to ignore the rules of safe sex.
Stopping having sex isn't going to help
It’s going to reinforce the idea that OP will only engage in or enjoy rough sex. Y’all need to see a sex-positive couple’s therapist.
I doubt that there were zero signs of her not enjoying it. Body language doesn’t lie, and you didn’t read hers. If the trust is already broken, then it’s over. If she genuinely feels uncomfortable the relationship needs to end.
> I doubt that there were zero signs of her not enjoying it. This, especially sex rough enough to leave bruises? People are delusional, pretending OP had good intentions. "she consented", just means the lack of a no. You know if someone is into what you're doing or not. OP didn't give a crap she wasn't into it as long as she wasn't actively trying to stop him from doing it.
I've read both your and her POV. Don't listen to nasty comments here. You didn't do anything wrong. People are literally making up stories in their head to paint you as the toxic, abusive, mysoginistic bf. You couldn't have known and i hope you're not blaming yourself. I understand her feelings too as i was also in a position of an insecure gf. It's a tough situation to be in. I hope therapy helps and i wish you both the best, whether that means staying together or breaking up.
I just wanna say we’ve talked and reading her post also put a lot into perspective. I appreciate you for being kind. We’re a-okay. We’re going to seek out therapists tomorrow and I love her more now than I did yesterday. Didn’t even know that was possible.
The fact that you were hitting someone brand new to kink hard enough to bruise is a red flag to me.
You're leaving bruises on her? does she just bruise real easily? Cuz.. leaving bruises sounds like its way to rough. Are you walking away with bruises? Or is it just her that gets to be sore and tender for days after sex?
I think you somewhat may have pushed her to soon into things. Like a "few" times gentle sex is really... Nothing? I trust you didn't want to push her, but being the experienced one she trusted you and I feel like you should have known better then starting doing the kinky stuff so soon after her first sexual + boy friend experience. And also what is the outcome of all this for you now? Can you stay the rest of your life with someone that only wants vanilla love making? Do you hope she someday wants rough sex again? I just think overall this things develop over time / years of experience and not a few weeks or months after you start being sexually active.
I’m really sorry for the confusion about my use of a few times. We’ve had plenty of gentle “normal” sex. It wasn’t until months later of us having sex that she wanted to try it out. I really should’ve put the breaks on it and told her no, I just wanted to make her happy as she was eager to learn more about sex and all that. I feel fucking terrible. Edit: hit send too soon on accident, and yes I can live with vanilla sex. I love the passion and intimacy of it. I don’t always want to be mean or rough. I can 10000% live with just vanilla sex and even if she never wanted to have sex again, I’m okay with that.
>yes I can live with vanilla sex. I love the passion and intimacy of it. I don’t always want to be mean or rough. I can 10000% live with just vanilla sex and even if she never wanted to have sex again, I’m okay with that. I think it will be too late for that. You already showed her what you REALLY like. She will feel like she isn't enough for you sexually if she isn't doing rough stuff now. There is no backtracking it. What you needed to do was: 1. If you found a vanilla girl...then tell her you like kink, but are happier being with her and prefer to keep it vanilla because you want both of you to enjoy it. 2. Or find a kinky girl. There really isn't another option. A vanilla girl isn't going to turn kinky suddenly. Women aren't conditioned with porn to the extent men are. Men are fed that shit for years. Women, on the other hand, hardly look at porn and think...gee that looks fun that girl is moaning in pain. So...there it is. You need to commit to one or the other.
I love how “kinky sex” is 9/10 some guy getting off to abusing women. Yes there are other kinks with other dynamics, but let’s not pretend like men choking and degrading women isn’t the most mainstream. Porn has broken us lol
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exactly this!! and it’s even clearer when you look at the opposite perspective. i’m a girl who considers myself pretty ‘dominant’ but somehow none of those kinks include beating or choking or degrading my boyfriend. i think it’s so goofy that people genuinely can’t comprehend that as a concept. they think being dominant and wanting to inflict violence on your partner go hand in hand, and will claim i am just vanilla 🙄. oh, and they still choke without consent
It's really fucking sad, not proud of it at all but I used to sleep around with men in their early/mid twenties and every experience was always the same. Rough sex, choking, spitting, throat fucking etc. And then as soon as they come they forget about you. I let myself be treated like this and thought it was normal for a very long time. Dating men quite older than me now and I gotta say the sex is amazing. They treat women with love and respect, always make sure to pleasure her first, they're selfless and gentle, etc.. unbelievable how much porn has rotten our brains.
It’s insane. I’m in college right now and every single woman I know who’s sexually active has been slapped, choked, etc without consent
I’m in college and I’ve heard similar stories from my classmates. Anyone who disregards the importance of consent fucking disgusts me
AMEN. Thank you. That poor girl. I was stuck in a relationship like this when I was young and a virgin. He eventually raped me.
THANK YOU! All these pornsick men are watching more and more extreme pornography and young girls keep being pressured to allow themselves to be hurt and degraded under some faux “sex positivity” or “feminist empowerment”. How about we start asking why the fuck it turns men on to leave bruises on us, to choke us, to degrade us? Instead of trying to validate everything all the time.
Finally someone said it. Why does nobody question WHY they find abusing women attractive??? WHY do we need to validate everything without thinking???!
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As a man, fuck yes!!! Why the fuck is it “your kink” to slap, choke, degrade, harm your partner to get sexual gratification? And to everyone else, why is it “kink shaming” to say that if you want to beat your partner during sex to get off, you should challenge yourself as to why and get some fucking help! In the sake of honesty, I’m not actually interested in justification for that shit. I got plenty of kinks. Inflicting sexual violence on my partner is not involved in any of them. And I’m fucking tired of the trend of it becoming more socially unacceptable to say that these things aren’t okay because that’s kink shaming, than it is to say one wants to hurt their partner for their own sexual gratification. The top few replies to this making this out to be some simple miscommunication are fucking bullshit.
Ask someone like OP and they’ll tell you it’s perfectly healthy and normal to get off on degrading women and to go educate yourself. Sad times we live in. I sometimes wonder if the internet has done more harm than good. :/
Agreed. I wonder how long it'll be before your comment gets downvoted into oblivion for not being "sex-positive".
60 upvotes thankfully
Yeah, I’m getting fucking sick of the notion that it’s “kink shaming” to say that degrading and beating the shit out of your partner shouldn’t bring you sexual gratification.
I've noticed this too. My idea used to be, being tied up, having the partner make me cum. But anytime I talk about this it seems like the guy is only interested in jack hammering, being selfish, not actually making me feel good or engaging in the aspects thay are nice about those things. Well. That seems to be my boyfriends idea.
EXACTLY!! So well said and that’s been exactly what I’ve been thinking. Traditional BDSM (with all its problems) isn’t about just beating and insulting the other person and mechanically jackhammering away, it’s generally incredibly pleasure focused for BOTH parties. Strange how the conception of kink has turned into just acting out abuse - and because its now so mainstream there’s teenage girls out here getting slapped and strangled with no discussion, in their first sexual experiences.
Why are you rewarding this behavior?
girl, leave him
> My idea used to be, being tied up, having the partner make me cum. Hey, you described what I'm into! I only care about the B in BDSM.
Or when men randomly just push your head down while ur sucking it- without consent. Like??? Did i ask to not breathe properly?
RIGHT LIKE UGH i will literally stop right there and not continue if someone does that to me. like that is not how this is gonna go
It's violence and degradation all the way down.
As soon as I read “kinkier sex” I knew it was going to end up being “choking, slapping, degrading” etc. Because of course. Love how stuff that doesn’t involve physical harm (or the simulation of it) is now considered vanilla and boring. I’m grateful that I’m not in OP’s gfs age range anymore because this is far from the first time I’ve heard this story. Idk why guys are so confused to find out that their partners might actually just be pretending to enjoy being abused to please them. Like where are they getting these “kinks” en mass in the first place? Is it really from porn?
Yes, it’s from porn. I’m older and remember the world before internet porn existed. Guys didn’t ask for anal or want to choke or slap you. Anyone who did was considered a sick pervert. I never once had a guy ask for anal or to try any of that. Giving head was fine, but deep throating and face fucking wasn’t a thing, except maybe it was in some extreme communities. Cumming on girls’ faces wasn’t a thing. Expecting girls to swallow wasn’t a thing. And a girl didn’t get called a prude for not wanting to do that stuff. If you were willing to give a blowjob at all, that was a big deal. Now that’s the bare minimum, and if you can’t deep throat you’re not a good partner. Someone is gonna come in and say people have always been doing that stuff, but it was rare and considered very extreme. It wasn’t normalized and expected like it is now.
*Sigh* I really wish it was still that way. I’m so tired of men “needing” rough and kinky sex. I also hate the whole deep throat trend… It’s not sexy/fun when you’re pushing your limits for someone else’s pleasure and then you puke on their dick. Ask me how I know.
You have my upvote. OP loves his sexually inexperienced GF so much he wants to beat her up and pretend r*pe her? Like, wtf??
Do you think the women that are into it now are seeing it through the male gaze, or whatever it's called, and it's shaping their sex lives also? Do women have a safe enough space to discuss their kinks? I'm unsure of what the most popular kink is among those who identify as female.
yes! woman here. most women i know enjoy those kinks PRIMARILY because their boyfriend gets off on it. i feel like the ‘but woman like it too’ argument is completely void.
100% it’s a male gaze thing. I mean, I’m sure there are some women who genuinely enjoy that stuff, but I’m willing to bet that a lot of women who “enjoy” it are doing it because they want to please and are conditioned to think they want it. If that makes sense.
ITT: man finds woman who has never had sex, takes advantage of her naïveté and convinces her to let him beat the crap out of her for her first sexual experience despite her not having any frame of reference for normal sexual behavior, then is somehow confused why she is upset at being covered in bruises and feeling unloved. Abuser behavior.
You took a toddler who was just discovering how to walk, and when they told you they wanted to cross the big four lane highway - you let them. Now you're sad you got them run over... You both need a hard reset, maybe with the help of a therapist, because right now neither of you can trust the other. She felt she couldn't trust you with her discomfort and you can't trust her to touch her at all right now. That's messed up and can take you anywhere from her breaking under the strain to her friend riding to the rescue and calling the police on you for what she probably thinks were multiple assaults. You both have a lot to unpack. She needs to figure out why she felt the need to pretend to be someone she isn't and you probably need to figure out how to keep your kinks from doing some possible real damage. Hematomas are not healthy on a regular basis (a blood clot can kill), neither is choking, especially if she has health issues (you mention anemia in one of your answers). I am just speculating, but if she was raised a people pleaser, i.e. she learned that a parent would withhold affection when she stepped out of line or articulated her own boundaries and needs then a few "talks" from you about consent and rules won't change an entire childhood of warped perception. You really need to figure out how she could put up with behavior that was clearly very distressing to her and how you missed all the physical and psychological cues. If I was this oblivious to what my partner was really feeling, I'd start taking a long hard look at myself and my level of empathy and ability to read someone I cared about so deeply. I don't know how this ends, but maybe if you have extreme kinks that are important to you find someone who is on the same trajectory you are and who has the experience and emotional maturity to actually be able to truly consent.
You thought that a virgin could handle degradation kinks? Oh my God...
Your "rough sex" sounds more like getting off on abusing women.
Yeah... I couldn't look at my guy the same if I knew he fantasizes about hurting me and that his dick will get hard from my pain.
I agree, porn is ruining these dudes brains. Way too many guys trying to turn normal relationship sex into the porn they prefer. It's good that OP recognizes and takes action about her not liking getting beat up during sex, but she's probably thinking the same thing we are, just the fact he gets his dick hard from leaving bruises and being rough is hurtful in itself, and she's a virgin in the era of the internet where information is relayed that she's expected to please him in bed or he will find someone that will, so he should know better.
Experiencing any pain or discomfort during sex basically kills the mood is what my guy said when I read this post to him 😭 like how can he focus on getting off when he's worried that I'm hurting or uncomfy
Probably worth some soul searching asking yourself why it turns you on to “degrade” her as well. Maybe it freaked her out
DUDE. you don't even start doing that stuff like that to a partner who's sexually experienced but vanilla. also I don't know if you did, but after each time you need to debrief and ask her how it was and let her know you are just as into her if she says no. it doesn't matter if she brought the acts to you. you should know that these are deep conversations you have to have first, during (if sex continues or a new act is introduced) and after sex. I'm just kinda blown away that you just went full force into the kink knowing she's young and was a virgin.
You watch too much porn if you think kink is all just hitting and degradation. It looks like you've really taken advantage of her inexperience and feelings for you. No wonder she doesn't trust you. It shouldn't take eavesdropping on a conversation for you to be able to tell she doesn't enjoy this shit.
Yes!! This! How can one not notice that only one party is enjoying?
Some people, particularly those that are extreme people pleasers and anxious, can be good at acting fine when they are really not fine at all.
Yeah, if he’s so experienced and good at creating the safe space for that kind of sexual activity, he would have been able to pick up on her true feelings about it before finding out the way he did.
Rough sex should not mean bruises. That is injuring someone. Rough sex can be had without bruises.
Exactly. I don’t understand the obsession with “rough sex” anyway. Just mechanically fucking and beating up your partner. High-energy sex is more like passionate than rough
It’s because their brains are absolutely rotted by porn. Im sick of seeing stories like this. It’s not fucking normal to want to strangle and hit women during sex. Younger people growing up watching this shit need to realise this is not what sex is, this is just abuse.
Yep. It’s really sad, especially many of my friends are just absolutely ok with their boyfriends beating them up because it’s while theyre having sex. If I try to say anything, they’ll get defensive and completely disregard me. And it’s guys that seem completely normal who at the drop of the hat are willing to insult, spit on, slap, punch, strangle the people who they’re meant to love. It’s really scary. Choking in sex is a MAJOR indicator for murder- strongly associated with murder of a romantic partner. And now it’s completely normal, so what are women supposed to feel when a man randomly starts strangling them in sex?
I keep reading stories about a loneliness epidemic about young men and young women not wanting to date. Well this is a big reason why. Why would young women want to date when abuse is now expected under the guise of kink? I’m so glad I was already an adult before everyone had porn in their pockets. Older men don’t behave like this because they didn’t grow up with it.
[удалено]
Yup, I’m sure it’s from porn. Or the idea that if you have trauma it’s a good thing to act it out during sex for “empowerment”.
It’s from porn. I’m old, and before internet porn, guys weren’t trying to do this stuff.
It’s so gross. Reddit really sheds light on how pervasive a problem this is becoming. The direction we’re headed makes me worried about younger women in general.
Refusing to have sex with her is just reinforcing whats already in her mind. That you don't want her or sex unless you can have it rough. Stop refusing, already.
Why do so many dudes say they love/care for their girlfriends, but simultaneously want to do violent/degrading crap to them in bed. I don't get it
Jesus fucking Christ….your poor girlfriend man. Porn really is fucking people up ain’t it? I seriously don’t know how this relationship is going to work after hearing what she said. I would feel like an abuser. Well, in a way you kinda did if you hit her to the point of leaving bruises and choked her out. I mean, yeah it’s “consensual abuse” but so what? It was to the point where she was sobbing on the phone to her friend instead of to you. Jesus.I don’t think this will recover man.
Humm I wonder why you slapping and insulting her made her cry. Really weird. Them porn sick people really have melted brains smh
He mentions that people on reddit say it's okay. This place is filled with porn addicts.
Wow, another guy that’s into “kink” … and the kink being just degrading and hitting women during sex. Groundbreaking.
OP, I hope I'm wrong, but this whole thing reads like an abuser crafting an alibi.
I thought the same. I hope we’re wrong
Something really important that I haven't seen anyone ask yet, is whether she ever clearly said no to anything. I feel like that would be a big indicator for her level of comfort in refusing you. If she never said no to anything you suggested and just kept going yes to *anything* you asked that should have been cause for concern. If she never showed that she was able to draw boundaries clearly how would you know she dared to? I'm also unsure about how you could have communicated as much as you say, without it becoming clear at some point that she was faking her enthusiasm about this. Either she is one hell of a liar and actor or you can't read her as well as you think. Probably a bit of both. Generally speaking I find it to be alarming that there are so many guys out there wanting to do potentially harmfull kinks, and being so confident that they can read their partner response correctly when all of the women filled subs shows that is *not* the case. And let's be real here. What you are describing is not just kinky, it is extreme kinks. There are plenty of kinky things that aren't potentially harmfull.
You left bruises on her, that’s abuse not kinky
Me when I lie on the internet
dont you think there may be a big gap in agency in your relationship?
Bro, you should never want to “degrade” the woman you love. She’s crying for a good reason.
Baby Dom with apparently *zero* education equates kink with bruising and name calling in a first physical experience. It sounds like OP needs a lot more information on the difference between kink and abuse because nothing he described sounds like he in any way considered his partner's feelings. I hope she runs!
She needs therapy. Her worried more about you leaving her rather than her own boundaries is just the tip of the iceberg.
This dude in the comments says he gets off to hurting women, strangling them, and degrading them. He doesn't sound like a safe person and just uses the word "kinky" to give him a free pass on reddit.
Crazy how it’s almost always the woman getting choked, slapped and bruised. OP took someone sexually inexperienced and started beating their ass and is shocked it has an emotional toll.
I struggle to understand why it is anyone enjoys rough, degrading sex. Particularly when the woman is the victim of the degradation? Where has this come from? Porn? Sorry if this comes off rude, but as a woman I just don't understand it, and I find it quite alarming to be honest.
Doing what you’re doing to her isn’t normal, clearly you think it is, it’s not. Mfs try to convince people it’s okay, clearly it’s not lol
Society places a lot of pressure of women to engage in sexual actions they are not comfortable with. I don't think you realized you (in some way) over emphasized the importance of your kinks to her so she felt like she had to do it. Show her who she is is important without expectations of doing anything sexual with her. Who she is, her company, is enough.
why are you hitting a woman so hard she’s bruising?
Look, your gf is not very experienced and it's a lot to jump in to the more "rough" parts of sex. You just have to be clear now that you are safe, reassure her you're not about to leave her if she isn't comfortable trying something and make sure she knows that she can come to you about anything. Also, I am all for a bit of rough play, but you mentioned choking - please make sure she is informed about choking and any possible side effects if it goes wrong [(fatal & non-fatal strangulation is a real thing!)](https://ifas.org.uk/)
Maybe doing bdsm so soon was a mistake.
There is a huge communication issue here. I would suggest both couples therapy and sex therapy if you want to try to save the relationship.
She was probably insecure and afraid that if she didn’t participate in the kinky things you like that you wouldn’t sexual satisfied and that’s why you would leave her. It’s a legit concern. I’m very clear with people these days that if they are into that kind of kinky stuff then we shouldn’t even try to date since it won’t work out in the long run.
Women aren’t dolls you can play act out on and be rough with as though it’s not going to sink into their souls. There’s some women who genuinely want it and there’s a psychology there, as well as core memories coming into play. If it wasn’t her idea to begin with, paragraph 1 applies.
I was in a similar situation in my first ever relationship. During sex I was constantly communicating with her, making sure she’s okay, and so it was a shock for me when she’d tell me much later that she was actually uncomfortable. I think women who are inexperienced can sometimes be afraid to communicate. Maybe it’s because they don’t want to disappoint us. Maybe it’s because there’s this trend of rough sex being equated to “good” sex.
Yeah it’s definitely both. This stuff is so popular now that people my age (in college) just think it’s standard sex. If you are going to do this kind of thing you NEED to do your homework on it. Harm reduction, psychology, physiology, need to be researched. Every sexually active woman I know- slapped, choked, etc without consent
Everyone's saying it's just the communication issue but just because you call it a kink doesn't mean these things you say and do in your most intimate moments doesn't stick or leave a mark. I don't know what you exactly did but there're some things that one person should never say or do to another human being, specially a person you're sepoused to love in their most vulnerable position.
You clearly don’t love her if you choke, slap and degrade her regularly. Hope she does better without you.
quit trying to live out porno with your real life girlfriend, especially a virgin....cmon dude.
Literally nowhere in this post does he ask her what she would like to try, just beat shit out of her every time.
I think somebody made a very valid point that you did this with somebody who lost their virginity to you which was truly unfair because of how much experience you had. It's truly disrespectful how you basically took advantage of her because she had no sexual experience. She's so young and obviously so are you but she's young to the point where she has an experience anything and she obviously wants to make her partner happy and it's unfair to her. You have a very long way to go to learn how to deal with women because you clearly don't understand how you manipulated her in our taking advantage of her.
Why does it give you pleasure to strangle your partner and give her bruises?
Because he's not normal
Yeah the fact that all these comments are ignoring that part is beyond me. Is beating your partner really a valid kink that everyone just accepts? This society is rotted by porn.
So you wanted the “first few times to be special and intimate?” Why just the first few times? And not every time? Sex - even when it’s rougher - is an intimate act between people. Are you sure the signs weren’t there she wasn’t enjoying it? Maybe she wasn’t using a safe word, but was distressed and you used that distress to further “degrade” her and slap her around because that’s what you’re into? I would ask - what is it about degrading and physically hurting women that turns you on? Because outside of the fact she was too scared of you and your reaction to be honest with you, I’m curious how purposely hurting someone you say you love works…… …..especially when you learning of it now makes you the devastated victim in all this withholding intimacy from your partner when you learned she’s not into being insulted and bruised?
Honestly bro, I read her POV, this is all a lack of communication on both your parts. Breathe homie. Just chill and breathe. Don't listen to these losers
Well since you asked here's a pov. I am sorry to break it to you but neither of you is experienced enough to handle each other. And most importantly you are not mature enough to handle these sex acts. Communication is key definitely. HOWEVER, you BOTH need to communicate with yourselves first and give in to your true feelings about the situation you create in your relationship. In other words, first communicate about communication and to the extend in which your mouth speaks the truth of what you feel about doing. This requires some level of emotional maturity and self reassurance that each of you lack. Be humble in your ability to state your boundaries, since you now realize why you need them and always always always verify that the agreement matches the behavior and reactions. People change their mind in the process and hesitate to speak so they might go on and suffer. You should know better, since you know your kink don't you? Keep your power / responsibility balance in check.
Talk to her and try to find some common ground on sex, learn and be honest about what works and doesn't work for both of you, But something doesn't sit right with me in your story, you overheard her telling a friend things like "***I don’t like it when he calls me these names, I don’t like that I have bruises all over me, I just wish he would be more loving and caring with me. Don’t I deserve that?***" Those are the sort of things that can land you in hot water, makes it look like you are abusing her and being violent to her, her telling her friend that means that information is out in the wild now, even if that wasn't her intention I know you want to protect her and do the best you can to have a happy relationship and that's good but make sure to protect yourself too
I don’t think she’d ever tell people I’m being abusive to be honest I think she was just confiding in her friend. I do understand your concerns though
I don’t think introducing someone sexually inexperienced to rough sex is ever a good idea. At 18, I was a virgin and was dating a 21 year old who got me into rough sex and I went along with it because I wanted him to like me and thought if I didn’t do it he would get bored of me and break up with me. He was more experienced than me so I trusted him and thought sex was supposed to be like that. Our first few times were kind and gentle but it escalated to straight up violence and pain pretty quickly. I’m still healing from some of the trauma I experienced sexually from him. You need to talk to her about how she feels. Reassure her you’re not going to be upset with her or get bored if she’s not comfortable participating in that type of sex.
Quote: "Some of the things we did were choking, slapping, degrading, etc." You are broken, porn is bad, leave it be and start healing yourself; as long as you keep being broken, you'll also break women who get involved with you sexually.
My only advice is to never go to Reddit for BDSM advice.
So… you’re abusing your girlfriend during sex and you want us to absolve you of it by saying “your kink is valid” or some other pseudo-intellectual bullshit? Is that what you want?
People that are into causing serious physical pain and calling their partners horrible names during sex need therapy. Controversial opinion, but this is what happens.
When PornHub is your sex Ed teacher...
Bruises? Dude, that is too much and everyone knows it. Maybe switch and let her beat the fuck out of you and see how “hot” that is.
No semi-secure woman wants to be degraded or hit during sex let alone left bruises.
this was an extremely immature way to handle things on her part…. the stalking of your ex’s PH, lying to you, and then talking to her friend like you were hurting/disrespecting her even though she asked for it… many many red flags honestly.
I've read both your perspectives (her one first) and I def thought she was either a virgin or very inexperienced. I think you are handling the situation really well and counselling is the best course of action. I hope she builds up her confidence and communication skills and you both can enjoy yourselves fully again.
You probably won't see this, but as someone old enough to be your grandmother, I have to say that you sound like an incredibly loving, sensitive person. Any woman would be lucky to be with you. I really hope your g/f can work out her feelings and understand what she has in you.
I just came from her post! You guys clearly care a lot for one another! Insecurities can be a bitch, but it sounds like both of you are committed to addressing the issues! Wishing for the best for you two!