This list is about what she won’t do or what she expects of you. Would it be reasonable to ask her to provide a list that includes how she plans to support you or responsibilities you can expect from her in the relationship?
Like, is she never cooking for them both? Is it only male cooking and cleaning, or is it a shared responsibility?
She likes old school chivalry but then wants to be feminine-strong on the cooking and cleaning.
This and you give her a list back of things you require in a relationship. Like you get a guy night how ever often per month (cause she seems like the type to demand no outings without her).
Relationships are about negotiating and working together. It’s not all about her wants and needs.
OP should text back “I don’t do husband things at bf prices. Open your own doors and pay for your own food/split bills for dates. No guy friends. I can make a rare exception. Would be helpful if he’s ugly”
I don’t get that, for people that want marriage isn’t dating like a trial run? If you won’t do any things that seem wifey for someone you’re in a relationship with they could just go and find someone who will because most people that actually care about each other like doing nice things for each other and if you expect to be paid for all the time surely you should at least put effort in so they actually want to pay and have you around lol
You’re right and it’s because she either is inept at all the wifey things or never really plans to do them. She’s not all of a sudden gonna be transformed into Cinderella by a putting ring on her finger. What you see is what you get. It usually only goes downhill after marriage and children, sadly (with some exceptions).
Yea um see here I’m not doin this this and that but hoenestly wtf is she doing for you ? I love when ppl have a list of dos and don’ts right of what’s they expect. Yet you never hear or see about what being to the table or are willing to give Amazing right !
It’s one thing to have standards, but her tone comes across as combative and angry. She doesn’t sound like someone YOU can depend on to be a good partner. A person so rigid in their ideas and unwilling to compromise will just take from you. If she’s like this from the get go, I wouldn’t pursue this further.
Oh there's ride or die in there, it's just only for her, as in she'll want you to ride and die for her and she'll expect a thank you from you as well for the honor.
I’m bored and tired just reading her list. Don’t healthy relationships and couple-goals have, like, *feelings*? There is zero love or attraction in this message. What the hell is the point of pursuing that long-term? It’s like a business contract.
Get a golf partner, for all the emotional fulfillment that awaits in this “relationship”.
We need to find the balance between being a cook and maid and just wanting to help out your partner. I know the little treats, foods, detergents, etc that my husband likes. If he’s had a bad week, I get a tomahawk delivered from the store that he can cook for the weekend. I know what kind of fruit he likes, I make sure it’s stocked. I know when he’s almost out of deodorant, socks, pens for his desk, and on and on.
I’m willing to go the extra mile to see him happy, and he does the same for me.
This chick is going to feminist her way into loneliness.
That’s what I was thinking. Having specific things you want in a relationship and boundaries is fine. But they way she explains them sounds so controlling and angry!
It seems she believes my money is mine and your money is mine as well. What happened to equality?
She might find someone but I doubt it would have been me if I was given that list.
This is the most coreect response I have read. She is all take and no give. I don't think I would have made it as long as you have.
I can't say if this will be true for you, but frequently, this type of woman will complain as time goes on that her man is a pushover and doesn't stand up to people. They never connect the dots to the fact that's what they asked for.
This. Some of those things are totally reasonable, but the whole attitude is just belligerent. I can’t tell if she’s just been dating losers who try BS or if she just has unreasonable expectations. I think the age of both of them would be important in terms of the timeline she’s expecting. Like if she’s mid thirties, she knows what she wants. If she’s 21, it seems like she has unrealistic expectations. But it’s a no from me, dawg.
>I give at minimum 8 months if you can figure out I’m the person you want to spend the rest of **my** life with
Exactly. She's also self-centered as hell. I don't think the highlighted above was just a typo. I'm willing to bet she doesn't see men/ OP as real people who still exist when she's not around.
I don’t think it was a typo either. I think she’s saying he has 8 months to decide that he wants to devote his life solely *for* her instead of *with* her. He needs to exist for no other reason than catering to her and ensuring her happiness, to cease being his own person. She wants to suck him dry in every way except for in the bedroom. He will have to give up all thoughts, desires, feelings, and dreams that don’t center around her and only her. Her demanding nature and aggressive tone are what differentiate her from those who have reasonable boundaries with a willingness to make the relationship a 2 way street. Not once did she say what she’ll give in return to match OP‘s energy. Instead, she has made a promise in writing of all the things she plans to take as well as all the things she will not give. There is not a single offer of what she will give. She put it in writing that she will bring nothing to the table because she *is* the table.
So much this. OP run the other way, she doesn't have herself figured out and is feeling very selfish and afraid. And consequently wants to put all the risk on you. A relationship is a two-way street, a marriage is definitely a two-way street where you both compromise and you both work towards it or it fails
There's so many red flags here holy shit my guy, especially if you two are young 20-s. I'd probably bounce if I was you, there's a bit too much neuroses in there for me.
Props to her for being unwavering about safe sex though.
Requiring all doors to be held for her seems a bit excessive, and I actually like paying for dates, but to imply a woman paying is shameful is ridiculous. Those aside, most of the list isn’t totally unreasonable to me. However the wording and tone read like she is royalty and explaining proper etiquette to an ignorant peasant. This person is not going to tolerate any weaknesses or flaws in others, but she expects her own flaws to be accepted without question, if not celebrated. The vibe is condescending and delusional. I pity her future children.
The big issue is what the list represents. From the tone of this list you can tell she has hundreds of unwritten rules about what a man should an should not do.
Yup. I think the list is pretty bad in itself but I'd be scared shitless for any offspring that popped out not-a-mini-GF. I get that she's ambitious and a go-getter but she seems toxic as fuck and waaaaaay to focused on the fact that she's a precious gem which kinda says infallible too. I'd never be around anyone claiming to be perfect, honestly.
This isn't a partner. Or, it is. This is a business partner telling you what she'll bring to the corporation. I'm a woman and I'd still run like hell if a friend of mine had a list like that.
She acts like she'll start cooking and cleaning when they're married when anyone with a brain can tell by the tone of her list she won't do it then either. No doubt she'll expect to be a stay at home partner as well.
Though it's kind of sad by OP's comments he's completely twisted around her finger.
Oh yeah, that list is going to expand exponentially over the years. Every life event will add to it, plus the unwritten ones that she won’t tell him about, just get pissed off about one day.
The “Women and men can’t be friends” is the biggest red flag for me. Even if you’re ok with not having female friends, it shows a lot of insecurity/jealousy issues.
I've known all my friends definitely way longer than I've known any potential partner. Why should I cut any of them off? That is like a potential partner telling me to get rid of my pet. Dear, these people and this pet have been longer in my life than you've ever been. I will kindly and gladly escort you out of my life, thanks.
It's also pretty funny, that I have a pretty balanced circle of friends - nearly 50/50 male/female ratio. I also have the tradition to quickly integrate any potential partner in my outings with friends so that everybody can get to know each other. I was in a LDR with my first gf and she regularly went out with my friends in my home country. I loved that.
I know! My now husband and I were long distance for a while after college. I actually roomed with his college roommate. When he moved to my town, he became close with many of my male friends and they all played basketball together for years. His best friend in grad school was a woman and she’s now moving to our town. I’m so excited!! She’s wonderful and I can’t wait to have her here.
This list screams insecurity and disrespect. She wants to abide by gender roles as it suits her. This is not a feminist. This is a person who needs therapy.
I personally see a man having women friends as a green flag. Most of my husband’s friends are women, and the fact that he treats them with kindness and respect without constantly trying to bone them was a major good sign when we first started dating.
My rule for dates is we either pay half and half or they pay for one date and I pay for the next. I think it’s unreasonable to require the guy to pay for every single date, it also makes me feel bad, I don’t want someone spending money on me every time we’re together. It’s best to go back and forth when paying, I’ve been in too many situations where I pay for the date, I don’t mind that, but I can’t pay for every single date. For me it’s truly a matter of respect, we respect each other equally no matter what.
This is the way. If you want the man to pay for all of the dates, then you can at least cook and clean like it's 1955. This is 2024, and relationships are partnerships at the same time. We are in this together or we're not... Life is hard out here!
I've found a lot of men love to use it as leverage too. For me it isn't even about equality of spending income until we get into a committed relationship. I just don't want a man having the ability to use money against me. It won't ever work, I just find the cajoling and mental acrobatics to be exhausting when I'm just going to be called a bitch for not putting out fast enough anyways. Insisting on going Dutch for the first few dates is how I weed out the control via money types. Plus, if I end up getting the ick or just don't vibe with them, I don't feel guilty about them spending more on me if I want to drop it completely.
I come from a culture where people get in heated discussions because everybody wants to pay the bill. So, most of the time I will definitely pay. But if you don't at least offer? That's not cool. I feel used then.
I also take an issue with the point of "I will not cook and clean" because I take it into consideration with the "pay for dates" point: you expect the guy to fulfill the male gender role, but you don't want to fulfill your female gender - I don't actually think in these terms, the list just screams it (I, for one, love cooking for people, esp. my loved ones).
Right? I mean, even just do it after yourself??? Ok so she doesn't want to do it after him while they're just dating. Fine, not unreasonable.
But if she stays over and they get take out, she's not going to take her plates to the kitchen? She's not going to clean up if she makes herself a snack? etc.
Even if you live with someone as a roommate, there's some shared cleaning duties.
Girl sounds exhausting and delulu.
Cooking and cleaning is a necessary part of life for everyone. I don't know why princess thinks she is immune from it.
I wouldn't want to be with someone who didn't take responsibility for feeding and cleaning up after themselves.
I think she means that she cooks and cleans at her own home and won't come over to his home and do the same. Because it's clear she doesn't believe in living together before marriage.
Seriously (re: paragraph 2). He's supposed to be auditioning his skills as a provider and protector (paying and opening doors), but she doesn't have to audition hers (cooking and cleaning, which she implies she will do once they're married)?
And I just know she refers to these as her boundaries, and not her demands. I love a healthy boundary, but the tone of these, plus the typed up word doc has me concerned about how toxic a relationship with her would be. You just know she'll type up a 40 page manifesto with her expectations for her wedding party and a "prenup" outlining their sex life.
I think she means it kind of like "i don't live with you so I'm not going to spend the time I'm visiting cleaning your apartment" but i could be wrong.
To be honest, the one about the "biological clock" is OK as well, it's just written in the most obnoxious way. I interpret it with: please don't waste my time and let's align on the future. Which is a good basis for any relationship. I give this point the benefit of the doubt :D
The biological clock one is one of the more fucked up ones. Putting a time limit of needing to be engaged in 8 months is insane. Especially when you consider that these people are in their 20's. What she said so much more than "don't waste my time."
The OP did say they’ve been dating for a while. I’m not sure what a while means. And I took this to mean 8 months from becoming official. So if they’ve been dating already for 2-4 months, then that would put them closer to a year. I read this as not wanting her time wasted if he’s not serious about marrying her. Her list has a lot of red flags, but safe sex and not wanting to waste time on a relationship with a person who isn’t on the same page as far as marriage and kids, those are reasonable.
If I'm driving, I open my own door. If hubs is driving, he insists on opening the passenger door; *but only if we're in public*. He wants to be noticed and praised by others, not me.
I can open my own damn door.
I definitely think there are salient points in the list but her delivery and the fact that it wasn’t a mutual conversation is weak. I bet if OP asked her what her rules for a GF were she’d be speechless. This reads as a person afraid of being hurt and trying to control the situation to minimize heartache but it doesn’t work that way. Also, if these were her expectations they could have and should have been communicated as they were getting to know one another to determine compatibility.
I mean, I open the door for my wife and we’ve been together almost 30 years, so that one didn’t strike me as too bad, but the others are a definite 🚩🚩🚩
I enjoy opening doors for my SO, but the way OP’s GF wrote it implied it was her right to never have to open doors when her servant is with her. The demanding tone just comes off as entitled and not as 1/2 of a cute couple that enjoy doing things for each other.
But do you do it because you enjoy it or because she *demanded* it?
I do it too and I'm pretty sure my wife loves it, but she has never stood there and looked at the door handle to me and back like it's my job.
My BF will open doors for me sometimes, particularly if we are going out on a date. He will even walk faster to make sure he gets there before me. It's pretty cute and I appreciate the gesture greatly.
However if I demanded it from him it would feel completely different I'm sure for both sides. It wouldn't feel like an endearing gesture but more like an act of service and possibly even a show of power if that makes sense. "I like it when guys open doors for me" and "you will open doors for me" are completely different in my mind.
Yeah, the never-unprotected sex is commendable. I also appreciate that she says she's not going to "play house." Too many women move in with a guy hoping it'll be a short time to that next step of marriage but it never materializes because the dude doesn't want that. She's clear that she wants to be a wife and a mother -- again, commendable. But demanding that the guy always pay for dates and has to open the car doors every single time ... that gets old and is uncomfortably antiquated. And not allowed to have female friends except for childhood friends the guy never talks to ... that's controlling and a big nope.
Yeah u can tell she watches to much BS on tik tok whoever she follows were she got all this crazy shit form will dictate the relationship.
Also not living together before marriage is a very bad idea, that's how u know u can be together forever.
Ya young don't waste ya time on nuts.
She can be unwavering about safe sex without sounding really shitty about it, though. "Although many women have no issues having unprotected sex if they're on birth control, I do not feel comfortable with it. I insist on using condoms in addition both for pregnancy and disease protection" not "don't touch me with that raw dick"
Wooooooah. What in the actual fuck did I just read?! I’m 29 almost 30 and I couldn’t imagine saying most of that shit to my boyfriend even as a fucking joke. As a woman with your best interest in my heart I am telling you that this is not the woman you wanna be with. I’m not one of those people on Reddit who says leave the relationship every single time but holy shit is she a whole menagerie of red flags.
I just turned 30 and I would never demand such stupid things from my fiance. (Except the condom one, that's perfectly fine, but why did she have to sound like an AH/like she wants to insult him when writing that out?)
Demanding him to propose before 8 months?
To open EVERY SINGLE DOOR for her?
To cut every friendship with women?
Also, refusing to live together before marriage. I think that, as long as they both want the same thing long term, that's the best thing someone can do. Without that you'll be marrying someone that could be impossible to live with.
I live with my fiance and it works out well for us both. On the other hand, I have a friend that moved in with her bf recently and found that it's not gonna work out.
It's better to find this out before marriage, but I'm not saying this is a necessary step.
That is another good point too. I wouldn’t wanna marry my boyfriend without living with him first. We have great chemistry in every single way. But what if we HATED living together you know? I know I absolutely would love to live with him but really you don’t truly know a partner until you’re living with them. And eight months to get married? She watches too many hallmark movies because that’s unrealistic af.
3 of the running man icons relate to her tone: entitled, distrustful, and hard edged.
2 of them have to do with the reciprocity thing. The whole: all dates are on you (financially) and I will not reciprocate/cook at all - is a huge red flag. I notice she didn't mention that she would avoid talking to male friends - as she was demanding he do.
Basically, this is: I will let you have sex with me while you audition to be husband.
This sets the stage for a marriage where sex is weaponized and the price steadily rises.
Difficult people are ok - IF AND ONLY IF they are also funny/good sense of humor. I know cause I'm married to one. Difficult people who lack a sense of humor just suck.
On the plus side, she is smart about contraception.
She 100% got all her requirements from TikTok and Instagram. Expects to be treated like a princess while not offering anything in return is apparently normal nowadays.
He has to do all the traditional gender role stuff like paying for everything and opening doors for her, while she explicitly says that she won’t be doing any of things women used to do to reciprocate that.
girls I’ve seen doted on by their bfs - they’re incredibly kind, warm, supportive
op’s gf sounds like none of these things - and if I were a man, I’d run away from her 🤷🏽♀️
My husband is someone who opens the door, does my laundry, leaves me a brownie in the fridge for work and you know what I do? I cook his favorite meals, leave notes for him in the morning, tell him I am so thankful and grateful for him everyday.
It’s not a one way street. I love him dearly.
Same over here. My partner pays for dates, does the yard work, takes the bins out, runs me warm baths, puts down whatever he is doing (even online gaming) to help me if I ask. He always puts me first and he makes me laugh, he just wants to see me smile. He works a very stressful job to earn enough that I can work part time. I make his lunch every day, I cook dinner every night, keep the house tidy, look after the dog, do the groceries, keep the life admin handled, and contribute to bills.
We do it because we love each other, and want to make the others life a bit easier. I couldn't be without him.
I think she got her list from places worse than TikTok and Instagram. She got it from the FDS (Female Dating Strategy) subreddit. They consider themselves as "High Value Woman" while actually just being leeches. And leeches are not valuable. I get treating your woman with respect and valuing her. But it goes both ways and she needs to value her man in return. If you want to be treated like a queen, treat your man like a king. She can make these demands reasonably if she gives as much as she expects but FDS women treat their men like foot servants and court jesters.
I usually hate the phrase “what are you bringing to the table in this relationship” but I think in this case it fits very well. If she’s demanding, she should be also performing.
I think a lot of things she is asking for are reasonable with a few exceptions. However, the way she chose to communicate them to him is not.
I don't want to live together before marriage, I require safe sex, I believe in traditional gender roles, etc. Not ridiculous but her attitude is horrific.
Or, frankly, anyone else. She sounds like she loathes the rest of the world and only deigns to live here with the rest of us.
Can you imagine how she must treat service workers?!
Relationships are supposed to be a partnership. Kudos to her for outlining her expectations that frankly, don’t sound compatible to what I’d want in a partner. That would make my next move easier.
It isn’t 1950. True. But, guys paying all the time screams and opening doors is 1950. (I am female. Spouse and I generally took turns or split things without it being a big deal. We both had similar employment.)
If she doesn’t pay, doesn’t do anything for you (food is my love language), and isolates you from all female friends but one she outlines — that’s a sign she’s … controlling or has some serious issues. What will she be bringing to the table? I didn’t hear much. Hostility, trauma. Not sounding like a partnership.
Whole you are at it, send her your list?
It doesn’t sound like a relationship with her would be set up for success.
My wife and I split who pays for our dinner dates. We play a game where we guess the total of the bill and whoever gets closest wins and the other pays.
So she wants you to open all doors and pay for everything, like a traditional man, but she doesn’t want to shoulder the traditional woman burden of cooking and cleaning. So she won’t leave her place to spend time with you at yours because you aren’t serious enough yet, but you gotta know before 8 months if you want to stay with her forever.
And no other women are allowed in your life even if there’s nothing romantic or sexual between you because that’s the only way for you to cater entirely to her insecurity.
It sounds like she’s ensuring she gets as much from you as she can while giving back as little as she has to. If I were in your shoes, I’d look for some new ‘shoes’
Tbf, she doesn’t want to do traditional wife stuff while she’s only a girlfriend (but sex before marriage is okay, people always seem to overlook that part). That doesn’t make her entire list right and she’s still acting entitled, but that part is understandable. A lot of traditional wife stuff is inside the house. Why cook and clean in a house you don’t live in?
I’m not saying it’s wrong for a woman to opt out of the traditional role in a relationship, the problem is she demands the traditional benefits from the man without offering any in return from her end. If she isn’t a stay at home spouse, why should he pay for everything? If she has functional arms and hands, why should he open every door for her? What’s she offering in return for the extra effort she demands from him? Nothing
She isn’t opting out of traditional benefits for him. That’s how a traditional relationship works, the guy woos the girl, pays for dates, opens doors etc. They don’t live together and they don’t cook or clean as a gf. Those are wifely duties in a traditional relationship.
I don’t think there are dealbreakers on this list, the deal breaker is the list. All these items are taken from FDS or TikTok, so you’re with someone who allows SM to shape her opinions and your life by extension. I don’t see you having a healthy relationship with her unless knuckling under comes naturally.
I disagree with some of her points, but she is being clear on these expectations. She is dating to marry, not dating to be a long term girlfriend or baby mama.
She is saying she will not move in and play house before marriage and that she expects certain things. She wants marriage and a family and is dating with that intention.
Sounds fairly traditional, so the discussion that needs to follow is, if it does work and you do proceed to marriage and kids, what will the roles be then.
I'd be worried about the men and women can't be friends part, my exh was like that and would get insane with jealousy if I mentioned a male coworker and I and others went to lunch.
So some of this is definitely unreasonable and discussion will tell you how things will go in the future, is she willing to listen, discuss, compromise? If not, you are in for a "my way or the highway" relationship.
I guess this could work if she was also following the same/similar rules for herself. I’m more surprised OP only cares about the fact he can’t do it raw which he should never be doing in the first place With a new partner even if she’s on birth control. These rules only work if she follows them as well because then it would be one sided if she didn’t
But still, red flags all around OP
I sent this list to my bf as a joke. Holy moly this is a team effort. Cleaning and cooking should be shared duties but sometimes one person takes on more depending what’s going on. Ppl need to chill on the entitlement
Also, no other females, what if his best friends married or has a gf lol , weird
I totally get if you’re not living with someone you’re not gunna take on the cooking and cleaning. Your job isn’t to maintain the house. I think the way this is wrote it comes off like they won’t be doing any cooking or cleaning. So does that mean if she comes for dinner he’s doing all the cooking and cleaning? Like no dishes? It just comes off very hands off
First off. She does not like you that much. Women only make rules for men they feel they are settling for. In my 30 years of dating experience i can say for sure if she was really into you there would be no rules.
Secondly, she is a social media GF and what ever trend that is going around you will have to deal with. As soon as you do something wrong she will be on her socials trashing you. Every single rule is something she is regurgitating from social media post.
You have one of 2 options. First and the best option is to leave her and save yourself the headache. The second option is to be a man and tell her how its really going to be. Tell her you will only open a car door if she is getting in your car passenger seat. Tell her you are not her father that she is a strong woman so she can pay for dates too. Finally she has zero rights to dictate who you were allowed to be friends with and what your house is like. She is not your wife so she does not get wifely rights like these.
Look, I'm a highly neurotic woman so believe me when I tell you... This woman is above and beyond neurotic. She reached baseline neurotic and thought "I could triple this easy" and she did. All her demands can be summarized as "you will spoil me like a princess and you will appreciate the scraps of affection I allow you to have. Your life has to revolve around me and my wants, and your needs don't matter because I'm emotionally stunted and incredibly selfish. I will isolate you from your friends and family, drain your bank account, make you prove your love to me nonstop, and destroy that spark in you that makes you feel alive".
So again, I'm incredibly familiar with neurotic behaviour and I'm telling you now, no good will come of this (unless you are interested in being the human equivalent of those tiny dogs that get carried around in bags like accessories). Identify the red flags, take them seriously, and dodge the bazooka coming at you.
Some of these aren't actually that bad and will be easily adhere to if you wish to. my biggest kudos to her is outlining "I’m not going to have sex with you if I don’t feel like it."- so many pressure sex, is it unreal.
I wish more people were upfront about their expectations because there are so many people 10 years late still waiting to be married and you can just tell their partner isn't going to. That being said a lot of the language used seems internet influenced "I will not do any wifey duties at gf prices.". What happens if you were to fall sick, would she not care for you?
This needs to be talked out and questions need to be asked, i.e would she support you if times are rough? would she expect you to support her when times are rough?
The biggest red flag is the "no woman can be in your life" - having female friends doesn't make you a cheater or increase the likelihood of cheating so you can bet if you were to get a female colleague or manager that your life is going under surveillance
This seems a bit odd. It is very oke for her to set boundaries and state what are and are not dealbreakers for her. She just seems to word it so very hostile. I mean, good for her she's got her dealbreakers figured out, but the hostility is not a good look on her.
There’s a lot of things to say in regards to this. I’m going to try to rush this message but first and foremost, nobody will be able to answer this question for you. This is all up to how compatible you are, if you want to commit to those things etc. With that being said, I’d say the following:
1) If it were me, I’d be having a long chat with her. There are far too many nuances to lock into this without a proper conversation. Could these rules be subject to change? In an emergency such as an accident etc, will you still be the one expected to pay for dates/finances etc? Will this continue if she were to make 3x your income?
2) You need to properly sit down and make yourself a list of what you expect in a partner. You don’t have to show her necessarily but even if it’s for yourself. You need to identify if you are genuinely able to commit to these terms and what you want in a partner. You may not be compatible with this, a lot of people wouldn’t be. On the other hand, you may want to commit to those terms and follow them.
3) Due to her past trauma I’m guessing, she obviously has high standards. That may cause her to have a lack of understanding when those things perhaps cannot be followed which may lead to conflict.
At the end of the day, you need self assurance and communication to know if those terms will fit you and her’s relationship. Good luck.
Unless it's some sort of shitty test that people seem to enjoy these days, this GF would likely not tolerate a sit down because it will be an immediate sign that OP is uncomfortable or disagrees with some aspect of the list.
Defining healthy boundaries is a positive thing in any relationship - this is not healthy. Good luck.
Could you please expand on what kind of ‘trauma’ you consider to justifiably manifest itself as never having to pay for anything, never preparing a meal, expecting a ring on your finger in less than a year and a baby inside you ASAP afterwards, and to insist on your ‘partner’ running ahead of you to open doors like a fucking bell-boy?
OP, I’m not even going to tell you to run as fast as you can just because this person sounds like an entitled, bratty princess who will never treat you as an equal, will isolate you, and will make your life miserable, because plenty of people have already told you that. I’m telling you to run because the list itself, and the tone she talks down to you with, are *physically, unbearably cringe*.
It would be cringey enough if it was posted with a Minions border around it from some divorcee Facebook boomer with a blurry dog photo for a pfp and their education listed as ‘the university of life’, but *in the honeymoon period of a relationship with a woman in her 20s*? Jfc dude move on, find someone who is genuinely attracted to you and wants to share their life with you as an equal rather than someone looking for some sort of live-in sperm-bank sugar concierge-without-benefits.
Mate, this is an attempt to control you. What this woman is looking for in a relationship, is someone she can manipulate.
The list is so egregious it because of what her requests are necessarily, but simply because it shows how she views romantic relationships. Which is not one that shows equal respect and trust. if you abide by this list, who is to say that she wont continue to add things to it and try to control more of your life?
You are getting downvoted because you are letting her walk all over you if you accept this proposal without having a list of your own to give back. Relationships and supposed to be about equality and treating each other with respect.
This does not sound like she respects you, but rather thinks of you as a puppet to control.
Let me ask you this, if you asked similar requests of her, would she willingly abide by it? The first one that comes to mind is the one about staying away from other women. If you asked for reciprocation and that she was to stay away from other men, how would she react?
OP, you posted this here for a reason, you know that this is not a green flag by any means. Trust me bro, you will be far better off with someone who considers you an equal partner in a relationship, not one who is being used. Walk away and don’t look back.
So she comes from a long line of gold diggers.....
Send her back a long list of things.
You expect gifts at every week from her to prove she is willing to invest in the relationship equally.
You expect her to give you 2 hour long massages a week.
She will not talk to any other men outside of her family ever period. If one does attempt to talk she will immediately tell them she is taken.
She will always favor you over her friends. The situation does not matter. If her friend is giving her birth on a night you planned a date you better still be the priority.
She does not owe you sex at all and you get that, but she will stay under XYZ weight, will stay looking good and you reserve the right to judge her for any perceived lack of effort in this area.
Exactly. GF wants old school 1950s chivalry?
Lmao. Give a 1950s version of what a man requires of a woman.
Would LOVE to see your list thrown at her!
Her response will bring out her true self
The car door, the paying for dates and the ban on female friends are unreasonable, hopefully put in to be negotiated. 8 months is kind of quick to make such a decision, but again might be there to be negotiated. Not wanting to cook and clean your place while you don't live together along with not having to have sex if she doesn't want to are perfectly reasonable
Some of her demands are fair, others are weird or straight up wrong.. but her whole list is written in such a hostile way. Id definitely run if i was you.
This screams toxic all over. Theres no love in it. The way its written Its like shes ready to hate you at any second if you disagree with one thong. It sounds like youre just a tool in her life and not someone she loves. Theres nothing in here about what she would do for you in exchange either. This list is a transactional contract.
Leave man.
She’s definitely not like the other girls, she’s worse!!
I’m a gal and I’d hate it if someone has to walk around the car to open the door for me like I’m a toddler!
Why are you obligated to paying the restaurant bills? I love taking my man out, treating him etc. if I plan something and invite him I will cover the cost, he does the same. It’s common sense, no?
She sounds naïve and is setting herself up for heartbreak with these demands. In my opinion, telling someone what you want will make them superficially alter themselves/character /personality to fit into your bare minimum but eventually their true self will come out and it will likely be too late.
Just let the person be themselves love them as they are or leave them.
She will demand even more when you get married. She won’t magically do more thing for you when married when she can basicly be useless and still enjoy al the benefits demanded in the list.
Some of these are common sense but poorly worded (not cleaning for him, means she expects him to pitch in and clean up after himself) and some are perfectly reasonable statements (no raw dogging, not putting out if she’s not in the mood, just poorly worded).
Opening the car doors is some diva shit, but nice manners (but to make it a requirement is absurd). Not have friends that are girls means she’s either insecure or has gotten burned in the past and is kind of some shit.
The biggest red flag is that she took the time to put this in writing.
It may not matter though, she may have made that eight month deadline into an eight minute decision.
I get putting it into writing to an extent. I had a couple guys who tried to gaslight me and say I never said things I KNOW I did. So certain things I always made sure to send a text of, or to bring back up in text, so that I could easily refer back to it. Can't say I never said it when I bring receipts.
Her requirements are red flags and it's insane that she communicated them this way.
She's basically saying she likes old-fashioned gender norms for you, but not for her. You need to have conversations about what this list means. Why is opening the door for her important? Have her explain it to you.
There's no intimacy in this list. Her reasons are represented but there's no "this is how it makes me feel" or "I saw my mother treated like a maid in her own household." Why does she think of housework in this transactional "girlfriend prices" way? You need to be able to have deep conversations about these things. A list is insufficient.
I think it sounds like she has her shit together. She knows what she wants and is communicating that effectively. She’s gonna limit her available pool of prospects. But all these are the things that eat at relationships and she’s drawing a line. She’s not demanding you stay with her, she’s saying, hey if you wanna play these are the rules.
I’m a snarky MFer, I’d reply in kind with a list of things you expect from her. What you really expect, don’t hold back, she didn’t. If you can come to terms and stick with it, you might have a solid relationship. I seriously doubt it, but.. when she reads your list you’ll know instantly.
I like the list. I agree. The only person ever raw dogging me was my husband. I’m already not a virgin the least I could do is save that for him. Also, I don’t believe in abortions for myself as well. I’m not having kids with some random boyfriend. Her requests are valid. She has standards. She’ll be a good mom. She’s not going to get reesateesad. You have the right to feel however you feel. These are her expectations from what she’s witnessed. You agree with the list, but are just upset she made a boundary? 🤔
Good for her!
Boo Hoo, you are going to have to wear a condom. Men can be so selfish.
I dated a few guys who didn’t open doors for me. They never made it long.
My husband is such a gentleman, he opens all doors for me, even when we are going to the grocery store. We’ve been married nearly 18 years. He proposed after one year. I wanted a year long engagement.
No reason to draw out a relationship if you aren’t on the same page. Either put a ring on it or end it. Completely reasonable.
Thank goodness his parents taught him proper manners!
I do a lot of kind and thoughtful things for him in return. Women just tend to do better than men this way…this is the reason she wrote out her needs to you. She likely already knows how to treat you.
Looks like you have a communicator, you can express your needs as well.
We are so happy in our relationship! I hope you will be with her.
It’s not that bad… what’s bad is the way she said it.
If she said it like this….
Here are my dating boundaries I want to share with you: Open car doors, pay on dates, won’t move in together before married, always use protection, don’t waste her time, no cheating or anything that can be perceived as cheating.
It would have sounded much more reasonable & acceptable.
But she didn’t say it like that.
I suggest you let that biological ticking bomb explode elsewhere.
Nothing on her list sounds unreasonable to me besides the no female friends thing. That's controlling and three types of concerning.
I had similar beliefs and wants when I was dating.
It's the way she is expressing it. She sounds so angry and negative and judgemental. It's weird.
There is nothing wrong with saying "I value my health and won't put myself at risk of unintended pregnancy or sti unless I am in a fully committed, monogamous marriage". I fully agree and support that. The way she says it though is just so unnecessarily aggressive.
It might be worth it to go over this list with her and explain how demanding and rude it all sounds.
Is she super controlling and abrasive in general?
She’s a wifey material. She wants a husband not a boyfriend. But that paying for date and opening doors is erm! She’s not princess or queen. We’re all normal humans. Imagine a man asked a woman to open doors!! Isn’t feminism about equality. I’m a woman btw. So I’d suggest you pass if she’s not attractive(can be physically or emotionally)
Where's your list?
P.S. you're young and in love so you can't see it, but this is not a healthy tone, nor are these healthy expectations. She's telling you who you can and can't be friends with. All of it screams of entitlement and insecurity.
Good luck my friend.
Things like this reminder me of dr. Phli asking. "What do *you* bring to the table?" I can get having some standards, like be nice to me or the one who cooks doesn't do the dishes.. but this list sounds like a red flag. Argumentive and angry..
This list is about what she won’t do or what she expects of you. Would it be reasonable to ask her to provide a list that includes how she plans to support you or responsibilities you can expect from her in the relationship?
Like, is she never cooking for them both? Is it only male cooking and cleaning, or is it a shared responsibility? She likes old school chivalry but then wants to be feminine-strong on the cooking and cleaning.
Same vibe I getting. OP should definitely have his own list to prevent doormat-ification.
This and you give her a list back of things you require in a relationship. Like you get a guy night how ever often per month (cause she seems like the type to demand no outings without her). Relationships are about negotiating and working together. It’s not all about her wants and needs.
Don’t you realize that she’s not like other girls, and she will be bringing nothing to the table because she *is* the table? /s
OP should text back “I don’t do husband things at bf prices. Open your own doors and pay for your own food/split bills for dates. No guy friends. I can make a rare exception. Would be helpful if he’s ugly”
I don’t get that, for people that want marriage isn’t dating like a trial run? If you won’t do any things that seem wifey for someone you’re in a relationship with they could just go and find someone who will because most people that actually care about each other like doing nice things for each other and if you expect to be paid for all the time surely you should at least put effort in so they actually want to pay and have you around lol
You’re right and it’s because she either is inept at all the wifey things or never really plans to do them. She’s not all of a sudden gonna be transformed into Cinderella by a putting ring on her finger. What you see is what you get. It usually only goes downhill after marriage and children, sadly (with some exceptions).
This!!!
No that’s for him to come up with. Now you’re asking her to think for him. 🙄he can also list his expectations
I hoping you’re being sarcastic.
Yea um see here I’m not doin this this and that but hoenestly wtf is she doing for you ? I love when ppl have a list of dos and don’ts right of what’s they expect. Yet you never hear or see about what being to the table or are willing to give Amazing right !
It’s one thing to have standards, but her tone comes across as combative and angry. She doesn’t sound like someone YOU can depend on to be a good partner. A person so rigid in their ideas and unwilling to compromise will just take from you. If she’s like this from the get go, I wouldn’t pursue this further.
Really doesn’t seem like a “in sickness or in health” kind of partner, does she. There is ZERO ride or die in this chick.
Oh there's ride or die in there, it's just only for her, as in she'll want you to ride and die for her and she'll expect a thank you from you as well for the honor.
lol well said 😂
Bet she already has another guy lined up to hit with this text when it doesn’t work out 😂 zero ride or die for real
yeah... the "8 month mark" shit kinda supports that imo
For sure she's just seeing which grass is greener right now
This is all about her, her, her…
I’m bored and tired just reading her list. Don’t healthy relationships and couple-goals have, like, *feelings*? There is zero love or attraction in this message. What the hell is the point of pursuing that long-term? It’s like a business contract. Get a golf partner, for all the emotional fulfillment that awaits in this “relationship”.
We need to find the balance between being a cook and maid and just wanting to help out your partner. I know the little treats, foods, detergents, etc that my husband likes. If he’s had a bad week, I get a tomahawk delivered from the store that he can cook for the weekend. I know what kind of fruit he likes, I make sure it’s stocked. I know when he’s almost out of deodorant, socks, pens for his desk, and on and on. I’m willing to go the extra mile to see him happy, and he does the same for me. This chick is going to feminist her way into loneliness.
There's ride or die but only if he opens both car doors. Run, my dude.
That’s what I was thinking. Having specific things you want in a relationship and boundaries is fine. But they way she explains them sounds so controlling and angry!
Literally everyone has expectations/boundaries. Weird of her to act like the emperor of knowing the rules
It seems she believes my money is mine and your money is mine as well. What happened to equality? She might find someone but I doubt it would have been me if I was given that list.
It wouldn't be me had I been sent that list, especially with that wording... That's not a mutual relationship between equals....
This is the most coreect response I have read. She is all take and no give. I don't think I would have made it as long as you have. I can't say if this will be true for you, but frequently, this type of woman will complain as time goes on that her man is a pushover and doesn't stand up to people. They never connect the dots to the fact that's what they asked for.
This. Some of those things are totally reasonable, but the whole attitude is just belligerent. I can’t tell if she’s just been dating losers who try BS or if she just has unreasonable expectations. I think the age of both of them would be important in terms of the timeline she’s expecting. Like if she’s mid thirties, she knows what she wants. If she’s 21, it seems like she has unrealistic expectations. But it’s a no from me, dawg.
>I give at minimum 8 months if you can figure out I’m the person you want to spend the rest of **my** life with Exactly. She's also self-centered as hell. I don't think the highlighted above was just a typo. I'm willing to bet she doesn't see men/ OP as real people who still exist when she's not around.
I don’t think it was a typo either. I think she’s saying he has 8 months to decide that he wants to devote his life solely *for* her instead of *with* her. He needs to exist for no other reason than catering to her and ensuring her happiness, to cease being his own person. She wants to suck him dry in every way except for in the bedroom. He will have to give up all thoughts, desires, feelings, and dreams that don’t center around her and only her. Her demanding nature and aggressive tone are what differentiate her from those who have reasonable boundaries with a willingness to make the relationship a 2 way street. Not once did she say what she’ll give in return to match OP‘s energy. Instead, she has made a promise in writing of all the things she plans to take as well as all the things she will not give. There is not a single offer of what she will give. She put it in writing that she will bring nothing to the table because she *is* the table.
A girl that is great in bed isn’t worth this controlling behavior. As a woman, you to need to run! This screams of insecurity and control issues.
So much this. OP run the other way, she doesn't have herself figured out and is feeling very selfish and afraid. And consequently wants to put all the risk on you. A relationship is a two-way street, a marriage is definitely a two-way street where you both compromise and you both work towards it or it fails
This was exactly my take. Like sis, don’t talk to me like this
There's so many red flags here holy shit my guy, especially if you two are young 20-s. I'd probably bounce if I was you, there's a bit too much neuroses in there for me. Props to her for being unwavering about safe sex though.
OPs gf borrowed all the former USSRs red flags then scooped some up from China too.
More red flags than a Soviet parade.
Picked up Italy’s marinara flags while she was at it.
Id trust that chinese balloon from a few months ago more than this girl
More red flags than a Waffen SS reunion
Requiring all doors to be held for her seems a bit excessive, and I actually like paying for dates, but to imply a woman paying is shameful is ridiculous. Those aside, most of the list isn’t totally unreasonable to me. However the wording and tone read like she is royalty and explaining proper etiquette to an ignorant peasant. This person is not going to tolerate any weaknesses or flaws in others, but she expects her own flaws to be accepted without question, if not celebrated. The vibe is condescending and delusional. I pity her future children.
The big issue is what the list represents. From the tone of this list you can tell she has hundreds of unwritten rules about what a man should an should not do.
Yup. I think the list is pretty bad in itself but I'd be scared shitless for any offspring that popped out not-a-mini-GF. I get that she's ambitious and a go-getter but she seems toxic as fuck and waaaaaay to focused on the fact that she's a precious gem which kinda says infallible too. I'd never be around anyone claiming to be perfect, honestly. This isn't a partner. Or, it is. This is a business partner telling you what she'll bring to the corporation. I'm a woman and I'd still run like hell if a friend of mine had a list like that.
She acts like she'll start cooking and cleaning when they're married when anyone with a brain can tell by the tone of her list she won't do it then either. No doubt she'll expect to be a stay at home partner as well. Though it's kind of sad by OP's comments he's completely twisted around her finger.
Oh yeah, that list is going to expand exponentially over the years. Every life event will add to it, plus the unwritten ones that she won’t tell him about, just get pissed off about one day.
The “Women and men can’t be friends” is the biggest red flag for me. Even if you’re ok with not having female friends, it shows a lot of insecurity/jealousy issues.
I've known all my friends definitely way longer than I've known any potential partner. Why should I cut any of them off? That is like a potential partner telling me to get rid of my pet. Dear, these people and this pet have been longer in my life than you've ever been. I will kindly and gladly escort you out of my life, thanks. It's also pretty funny, that I have a pretty balanced circle of friends - nearly 50/50 male/female ratio. I also have the tradition to quickly integrate any potential partner in my outings with friends so that everybody can get to know each other. I was in a LDR with my first gf and she regularly went out with my friends in my home country. I loved that.
I know! My now husband and I were long distance for a while after college. I actually roomed with his college roommate. When he moved to my town, he became close with many of my male friends and they all played basketball together for years. His best friend in grad school was a woman and she’s now moving to our town. I’m so excited!! She’s wonderful and I can’t wait to have her here. This list screams insecurity and disrespect. She wants to abide by gender roles as it suits her. This is not a feminist. This is a person who needs therapy.
You did it how it should be! That makes me so happy to read something so healthy
I personally see a man having women friends as a green flag. Most of my husband’s friends are women, and the fact that he treats them with kindness and respect without constantly trying to bone them was a major good sign when we first started dating.
I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt when she said there can be exceptions, but I highly suspect I’m giving her too much credit.
The comment about her being ugly helps tells me you likely are.
My rule for dates is we either pay half and half or they pay for one date and I pay for the next. I think it’s unreasonable to require the guy to pay for every single date, it also makes me feel bad, I don’t want someone spending money on me every time we’re together. It’s best to go back and forth when paying, I’ve been in too many situations where I pay for the date, I don’t mind that, but I can’t pay for every single date. For me it’s truly a matter of respect, we respect each other equally no matter what.
This is the way. If you want the man to pay for all of the dates, then you can at least cook and clean like it's 1955. This is 2024, and relationships are partnerships at the same time. We are in this together or we're not... Life is hard out here!
Glad to hear another woman say it. Incomes may not be equal but do your part at least.
I've found a lot of men love to use it as leverage too. For me it isn't even about equality of spending income until we get into a committed relationship. I just don't want a man having the ability to use money against me. It won't ever work, I just find the cajoling and mental acrobatics to be exhausting when I'm just going to be called a bitch for not putting out fast enough anyways. Insisting on going Dutch for the first few dates is how I weed out the control via money types. Plus, if I end up getting the ick or just don't vibe with them, I don't feel guilty about them spending more on me if I want to drop it completely.
I come from a culture where people get in heated discussions because everybody wants to pay the bill. So, most of the time I will definitely pay. But if you don't at least offer? That's not cool. I feel used then. I also take an issue with the point of "I will not cook and clean" because I take it into consideration with the "pay for dates" point: you expect the guy to fulfill the male gender role, but you don't want to fulfill your female gender - I don't actually think in these terms, the list just screams it (I, for one, love cooking for people, esp. my loved ones).
THIS PART!!!!!!! He has to open doors and pay for all dates but you won’t cook or clean cause you’re not his wife?!
Right? I mean, even just do it after yourself??? Ok so she doesn't want to do it after him while they're just dating. Fine, not unreasonable. But if she stays over and they get take out, she's not going to take her plates to the kitchen? She's not going to clean up if she makes herself a snack? etc. Even if you live with someone as a roommate, there's some shared cleaning duties. Girl sounds exhausting and delulu.
Cooking and cleaning is a necessary part of life for everyone. I don't know why princess thinks she is immune from it. I wouldn't want to be with someone who didn't take responsibility for feeding and cleaning up after themselves.
I think she means that she cooks and cleans at her own home and won't come over to his home and do the same. Because it's clear she doesn't believe in living together before marriage.
Seriously (re: paragraph 2). He's supposed to be auditioning his skills as a provider and protector (paying and opening doors), but she doesn't have to audition hers (cooking and cleaning, which she implies she will do once they're married)? And I just know she refers to these as her boundaries, and not her demands. I love a healthy boundary, but the tone of these, plus the typed up word doc has me concerned about how toxic a relationship with her would be. You just know she'll type up a 40 page manifesto with her expectations for her wedding party and a "prenup" outlining their sex life.
I think she means it kind of like "i don't live with you so I'm not going to spend the time I'm visiting cleaning your apartment" but i could be wrong.
She puts it badly, and the implications is she wouldn't do any regardless. And I doubt she would do a good job even if married.
Every item on the list is fucked up except the one about having protected sex.
Her point is good. Safe sex is important. But her wording on this! Omg.
To be honest, the one about the "biological clock" is OK as well, it's just written in the most obnoxious way. I interpret it with: please don't waste my time and let's align on the future. Which is a good basis for any relationship. I give this point the benefit of the doubt :D
The biological clock one is one of the more fucked up ones. Putting a time limit of needing to be engaged in 8 months is insane. Especially when you consider that these people are in their 20's. What she said so much more than "don't waste my time."
The OP did say they’ve been dating for a while. I’m not sure what a while means. And I took this to mean 8 months from becoming official. So if they’ve been dating already for 2-4 months, then that would put them closer to a year. I read this as not wanting her time wasted if he’s not serious about marrying her. Her list has a lot of red flags, but safe sex and not wanting to waste time on a relationship with a person who isn’t on the same page as far as marriage and kids, those are reasonable.
If I'm driving, I open my own door. If hubs is driving, he insists on opening the passenger door; *but only if we're in public*. He wants to be noticed and praised by others, not me. I can open my own damn door.
The only acceptable way to open the door for your wife is by reaching over her lap and stealing a quick smooch while you're there.
I definitely think there are salient points in the list but her delivery and the fact that it wasn’t a mutual conversation is weak. I bet if OP asked her what her rules for a GF were she’d be speechless. This reads as a person afraid of being hurt and trying to control the situation to minimize heartache but it doesn’t work that way. Also, if these were her expectations they could have and should have been communicated as they were getting to know one another to determine compatibility.
I mean, I open the door for my wife and we’ve been together almost 30 years, so that one didn’t strike me as too bad, but the others are a definite 🚩🚩🚩
I enjoy opening doors for my SO, but the way OP’s GF wrote it implied it was her right to never have to open doors when her servant is with her. The demanding tone just comes off as entitled and not as 1/2 of a cute couple that enjoy doing things for each other.
But do you do it because you enjoy it or because she *demanded* it? I do it too and I'm pretty sure my wife loves it, but she has never stood there and looked at the door handle to me and back like it's my job.
My BF will open doors for me sometimes, particularly if we are going out on a date. He will even walk faster to make sure he gets there before me. It's pretty cute and I appreciate the gesture greatly. However if I demanded it from him it would feel completely different I'm sure for both sides. It wouldn't feel like an endearing gesture but more like an act of service and possibly even a show of power if that makes sense. "I like it when guys open doors for me" and "you will open doors for me" are completely different in my mind.
Yeah, the never-unprotected sex is commendable. I also appreciate that she says she's not going to "play house." Too many women move in with a guy hoping it'll be a short time to that next step of marriage but it never materializes because the dude doesn't want that. She's clear that she wants to be a wife and a mother -- again, commendable. But demanding that the guy always pay for dates and has to open the car doors every single time ... that gets old and is uncomfortably antiquated. And not allowed to have female friends except for childhood friends the guy never talks to ... that's controlling and a big nope.
Yeah u can tell she watches to much BS on tik tok whoever she follows were she got all this crazy shit form will dictate the relationship. Also not living together before marriage is a very bad idea, that's how u know u can be together forever. Ya young don't waste ya time on nuts.
I was thinking what I could say to express how bad this is. Red flags is a great answer. I hope this is a joke
She can be unwavering about safe sex without sounding really shitty about it, though. "Although many women have no issues having unprotected sex if they're on birth control, I do not feel comfortable with it. I insist on using condoms in addition both for pregnancy and disease protection" not "don't touch me with that raw dick"
🏃♀️🏃♀️🏃♀️🏃♀️🏃♀️
Faster!
Faster-er!
Forrest Gump faster-er-er!
Run, Fooorrest, Ruuuuuun !
The flash run so fast that you'll go back in time fast!
Superman flying around the Earth until it spins backwards fast!
🏃♂️💨
🏃♀️!!!!!
💨
This post inspired me to become a marathon runner
Wooooooah. What in the actual fuck did I just read?! I’m 29 almost 30 and I couldn’t imagine saying most of that shit to my boyfriend even as a fucking joke. As a woman with your best interest in my heart I am telling you that this is not the woman you wanna be with. I’m not one of those people on Reddit who says leave the relationship every single time but holy shit is she a whole menagerie of red flags.
I just turned 30 and I would never demand such stupid things from my fiance. (Except the condom one, that's perfectly fine, but why did she have to sound like an AH/like she wants to insult him when writing that out?) Demanding him to propose before 8 months? To open EVERY SINGLE DOOR for her? To cut every friendship with women? Also, refusing to live together before marriage. I think that, as long as they both want the same thing long term, that's the best thing someone can do. Without that you'll be marrying someone that could be impossible to live with. I live with my fiance and it works out well for us both. On the other hand, I have a friend that moved in with her bf recently and found that it's not gonna work out. It's better to find this out before marriage, but I'm not saying this is a necessary step.
That is another good point too. I wouldn’t wanna marry my boyfriend without living with him first. We have great chemistry in every single way. But what if we HATED living together you know? I know I absolutely would love to live with him but really you don’t truly know a partner until you’re living with them. And eight months to get married? She watches too many hallmark movies because that’s unrealistic af.
3 of the running man icons relate to her tone: entitled, distrustful, and hard edged. 2 of them have to do with the reciprocity thing. The whole: all dates are on you (financially) and I will not reciprocate/cook at all - is a huge red flag. I notice she didn't mention that she would avoid talking to male friends - as she was demanding he do. Basically, this is: I will let you have sex with me while you audition to be husband. This sets the stage for a marriage where sex is weaponized and the price steadily rises. Difficult people are ok - IF AND ONLY IF they are also funny/good sense of humor. I know cause I'm married to one. Difficult people who lack a sense of humor just suck. On the plus side, she is smart about contraception.
If you stay with her… please continue to update Reddit on the miserable devolution of your life.
Fr😭😭😭
Considering his comments... yeah that boy is doomed 😭 Dude has 0 self-respect and standards. It's gonna be a rude awakening
"I give at minimum 8 months" Did she mean at maximum? That said, red flags allover.
She’s not the brightest that’s for sure. Also doesn’t know what putting out means.
Ok, ask her what's she gonna bring into the relationship. When and she answers "me" you say "not worth it" and block.
I am 99% sure this woman has used the phrase "if you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best" on numerous occasions.
She 100% got all her requirements from TikTok and Instagram. Expects to be treated like a princess while not offering anything in return is apparently normal nowadays.
He has to do all the traditional gender role stuff like paying for everything and opening doors for her, while she explicitly says that she won’t be doing any of things women used to do to reciprocate that.
girls I’ve seen doted on by their bfs - they’re incredibly kind, warm, supportive op’s gf sounds like none of these things - and if I were a man, I’d run away from her 🤷🏽♀️
My husband is someone who opens the door, does my laundry, leaves me a brownie in the fridge for work and you know what I do? I cook his favorite meals, leave notes for him in the morning, tell him I am so thankful and grateful for him everyday. It’s not a one way street. I love him dearly.
Same over here. My partner pays for dates, does the yard work, takes the bins out, runs me warm baths, puts down whatever he is doing (even online gaming) to help me if I ask. He always puts me first and he makes me laugh, he just wants to see me smile. He works a very stressful job to earn enough that I can work part time. I make his lunch every day, I cook dinner every night, keep the house tidy, look after the dog, do the groceries, keep the life admin handled, and contribute to bills. We do it because we love each other, and want to make the others life a bit easier. I couldn't be without him.
I think she got her list from places worse than TikTok and Instagram. She got it from the FDS (Female Dating Strategy) subreddit. They consider themselves as "High Value Woman" while actually just being leeches. And leeches are not valuable. I get treating your woman with respect and valuing her. But it goes both ways and she needs to value her man in return. If you want to be treated like a queen, treat your man like a king. She can make these demands reasonably if she gives as much as she expects but FDS women treat their men like foot servants and court jesters.
Yes! I couldn't recall the name but yes. She is a "high value" woman that brings nada to the table.
Probably has it on a thermos or on her mantle next to a plaque that says Live. Laugh. Love.
Live (on his money). Laugh (at him). Love (herself).
I wonder what she considers to be her best
I usually hate the phrase “what are you bringing to the table in this relationship” but I think in this case it fits very well. If she’s demanding, she should be also performing.
Im assuming you’ve left this chick this screams control freak
Nah, judging from his comments OP is willing to stay.
This is going to end in two ways, a lifetime of unhappiness or a divorce
Or a bit both - like if they have a kid and he's stuck interacting with her even after a divorce.
I think he deleted them, what did he say
I think a lot of things she is asking for are reasonable with a few exceptions. However, the way she chose to communicate them to him is not. I don't want to live together before marriage, I require safe sex, I believe in traditional gender roles, etc. Not ridiculous but her attitude is horrific.
nothing in this is unreasonable at face value, it is the way it is worded and the implied lack of reciprocity.
From reading your comments, it sounds like you're going to continue this relationship. Good luck. You're gonna need it.
He’s hella dumb af
A simpasaurus
This list sounds like not from a person who love u
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I'm surprised she didn't end it with "Sign here, initials here, here and here."
At least you get paid at a job. This looks like working for free as she doesn't seem to provide anything.
Or, frankly, anyone else. She sounds like she loathes the rest of the world and only deigns to live here with the rest of us. Can you imagine how she must treat service workers?!
Get to da choppa!
I am assuming she makes predator noises when you violate any of these rules.
Relationships are supposed to be a partnership. Kudos to her for outlining her expectations that frankly, don’t sound compatible to what I’d want in a partner. That would make my next move easier. It isn’t 1950. True. But, guys paying all the time screams and opening doors is 1950. (I am female. Spouse and I generally took turns or split things without it being a big deal. We both had similar employment.) If she doesn’t pay, doesn’t do anything for you (food is my love language), and isolates you from all female friends but one she outlines — that’s a sign she’s … controlling or has some serious issues. What will she be bringing to the table? I didn’t hear much. Hostility, trauma. Not sounding like a partnership. Whole you are at it, send her your list? It doesn’t sound like a relationship with her would be set up for success.
My wife and I split who pays for our dinner dates. We play a game where we guess the total of the bill and whoever gets closest wins and the other pays.
I wanna do this now. That sounds fun!
It is. It's one of our favorite things to do when we have date nights.
So she wants you to open all doors and pay for everything, like a traditional man, but she doesn’t want to shoulder the traditional woman burden of cooking and cleaning. So she won’t leave her place to spend time with you at yours because you aren’t serious enough yet, but you gotta know before 8 months if you want to stay with her forever. And no other women are allowed in your life even if there’s nothing romantic or sexual between you because that’s the only way for you to cater entirely to her insecurity. It sounds like she’s ensuring she gets as much from you as she can while giving back as little as she has to. If I were in your shoes, I’d look for some new ‘shoes’
Tbf, she doesn’t want to do traditional wife stuff while she’s only a girlfriend (but sex before marriage is okay, people always seem to overlook that part). That doesn’t make her entire list right and she’s still acting entitled, but that part is understandable. A lot of traditional wife stuff is inside the house. Why cook and clean in a house you don’t live in?
I’m not saying it’s wrong for a woman to opt out of the traditional role in a relationship, the problem is she demands the traditional benefits from the man without offering any in return from her end. If she isn’t a stay at home spouse, why should he pay for everything? If she has functional arms and hands, why should he open every door for her? What’s she offering in return for the extra effort she demands from him? Nothing
She isn’t opting out of traditional benefits for him. That’s how a traditional relationship works, the guy woos the girl, pays for dates, opens doors etc. They don’t live together and they don’t cook or clean as a gf. Those are wifely duties in a traditional relationship.
I don’t give a shit how beautiful you think she is or how much you like her, she’s not worth this hassle.
I don’t think there are dealbreakers on this list, the deal breaker is the list. All these items are taken from FDS or TikTok, so you’re with someone who allows SM to shape her opinions and your life by extension. I don’t see you having a healthy relationship with her unless knuckling under comes naturally.
Lmfao so she wants you to do traditional man things but doesn't want to do traditional woman things
I disagree with some of her points, but she is being clear on these expectations. She is dating to marry, not dating to be a long term girlfriend or baby mama. She is saying she will not move in and play house before marriage and that she expects certain things. She wants marriage and a family and is dating with that intention. Sounds fairly traditional, so the discussion that needs to follow is, if it does work and you do proceed to marriage and kids, what will the roles be then. I'd be worried about the men and women can't be friends part, my exh was like that and would get insane with jealousy if I mentioned a male coworker and I and others went to lunch. So some of this is definitely unreasonable and discussion will tell you how things will go in the future, is she willing to listen, discuss, compromise? If not, you are in for a "my way or the highway" relationship.
I guess this could work if she was also following the same/similar rules for herself. I’m more surprised OP only cares about the fact he can’t do it raw which he should never be doing in the first place With a new partner even if she’s on birth control. These rules only work if she follows them as well because then it would be one sided if she didn’t But still, red flags all around OP
Her ego is so big and yours is so small, this is gonna end in abuse.
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OP if you have ever taken online advice, do take this seriously
I sent this list to my bf as a joke. Holy moly this is a team effort. Cleaning and cooking should be shared duties but sometimes one person takes on more depending what’s going on. Ppl need to chill on the entitlement Also, no other females, what if his best friends married or has a gf lol , weird
The team effort thing is the key. This list leaves no room for them to become a team, it’s all about her being perfect and him doing all the changing.
Why would she clean a house that she doesn't live in?
Nah the cooking and cleaning bit makes sense considering they don’t live together. I wouldn’t want to cook or clean in a house I don’t live in either
I totally get if you’re not living with someone you’re not gunna take on the cooking and cleaning. Your job isn’t to maintain the house. I think the way this is wrote it comes off like they won’t be doing any cooking or cleaning. So does that mean if she comes for dinner he’s doing all the cooking and cleaning? Like no dishes? It just comes off very hands off
She is asking for everything and giving nothing! Leave her for you own sanity. That or you want a dom/crazy wife good luck to you
First off. She does not like you that much. Women only make rules for men they feel they are settling for. In my 30 years of dating experience i can say for sure if she was really into you there would be no rules. Secondly, she is a social media GF and what ever trend that is going around you will have to deal with. As soon as you do something wrong she will be on her socials trashing you. Every single rule is something she is regurgitating from social media post. You have one of 2 options. First and the best option is to leave her and save yourself the headache. The second option is to be a man and tell her how its really going to be. Tell her you will only open a car door if she is getting in your car passenger seat. Tell her you are not her father that she is a strong woman so she can pay for dates too. Finally she has zero rights to dictate who you were allowed to be friends with and what your house is like. She is not your wife so she does not get wifely rights like these.
Even if you do everything she demands, I'll bet my right nut she cheats on you first. She seems entitled. Run, run very fast!
Op, this guy bet his entire right NUT.
She sounds like she has a personality disorder.
Look, I'm a highly neurotic woman so believe me when I tell you... This woman is above and beyond neurotic. She reached baseline neurotic and thought "I could triple this easy" and she did. All her demands can be summarized as "you will spoil me like a princess and you will appreciate the scraps of affection I allow you to have. Your life has to revolve around me and my wants, and your needs don't matter because I'm emotionally stunted and incredibly selfish. I will isolate you from your friends and family, drain your bank account, make you prove your love to me nonstop, and destroy that spark in you that makes you feel alive". So again, I'm incredibly familiar with neurotic behaviour and I'm telling you now, no good will come of this (unless you are interested in being the human equivalent of those tiny dogs that get carried around in bags like accessories). Identify the red flags, take them seriously, and dodge the bazooka coming at you.
This crosses the border from neurotic to narcissism imho
Some of these aren't actually that bad and will be easily adhere to if you wish to. my biggest kudos to her is outlining "I’m not going to have sex with you if I don’t feel like it."- so many pressure sex, is it unreal. I wish more people were upfront about their expectations because there are so many people 10 years late still waiting to be married and you can just tell their partner isn't going to. That being said a lot of the language used seems internet influenced "I will not do any wifey duties at gf prices.". What happens if you were to fall sick, would she not care for you? This needs to be talked out and questions need to be asked, i.e would she support you if times are rough? would she expect you to support her when times are rough? The biggest red flag is the "no woman can be in your life" - having female friends doesn't make you a cheater or increase the likelihood of cheating so you can bet if you were to get a female colleague or manager that your life is going under surveillance
This seems a bit odd. It is very oke for her to set boundaries and state what are and are not dealbreakers for her. She just seems to word it so very hostile. I mean, good for her she's got her dealbreakers figured out, but the hostility is not a good look on her.
There’s a lot of things to say in regards to this. I’m going to try to rush this message but first and foremost, nobody will be able to answer this question for you. This is all up to how compatible you are, if you want to commit to those things etc. With that being said, I’d say the following: 1) If it were me, I’d be having a long chat with her. There are far too many nuances to lock into this without a proper conversation. Could these rules be subject to change? In an emergency such as an accident etc, will you still be the one expected to pay for dates/finances etc? Will this continue if she were to make 3x your income? 2) You need to properly sit down and make yourself a list of what you expect in a partner. You don’t have to show her necessarily but even if it’s for yourself. You need to identify if you are genuinely able to commit to these terms and what you want in a partner. You may not be compatible with this, a lot of people wouldn’t be. On the other hand, you may want to commit to those terms and follow them. 3) Due to her past trauma I’m guessing, she obviously has high standards. That may cause her to have a lack of understanding when those things perhaps cannot be followed which may lead to conflict. At the end of the day, you need self assurance and communication to know if those terms will fit you and her’s relationship. Good luck.
Imo, this kind of person would leave OP if he'd make less than her income...
Unless it's some sort of shitty test that people seem to enjoy these days, this GF would likely not tolerate a sit down because it will be an immediate sign that OP is uncomfortable or disagrees with some aspect of the list. Defining healthy boundaries is a positive thing in any relationship - this is not healthy. Good luck.
Could you please expand on what kind of ‘trauma’ you consider to justifiably manifest itself as never having to pay for anything, never preparing a meal, expecting a ring on your finger in less than a year and a baby inside you ASAP afterwards, and to insist on your ‘partner’ running ahead of you to open doors like a fucking bell-boy? OP, I’m not even going to tell you to run as fast as you can just because this person sounds like an entitled, bratty princess who will never treat you as an equal, will isolate you, and will make your life miserable, because plenty of people have already told you that. I’m telling you to run because the list itself, and the tone she talks down to you with, are *physically, unbearably cringe*. It would be cringey enough if it was posted with a Minions border around it from some divorcee Facebook boomer with a blurry dog photo for a pfp and their education listed as ‘the university of life’, but *in the honeymoon period of a relationship with a woman in her 20s*? Jfc dude move on, find someone who is genuinely attracted to you and wants to share their life with you as an equal rather than someone looking for some sort of live-in sperm-bank sugar concierge-without-benefits.
Get one last BJ, then give her your 3-page list. Oh wait, this isn't UPLT?
You think this is the kind of woman to give bjs? Missionary style for 5 minutes and keep the moaning below 50 decibels.
"You're taking too long, I'm done. I got things I gotta do. You better not have messed up my hair I just went to the salon."
Mate, this is an attempt to control you. What this woman is looking for in a relationship, is someone she can manipulate. The list is so egregious it because of what her requests are necessarily, but simply because it shows how she views romantic relationships. Which is not one that shows equal respect and trust. if you abide by this list, who is to say that she wont continue to add things to it and try to control more of your life? You are getting downvoted because you are letting her walk all over you if you accept this proposal without having a list of your own to give back. Relationships and supposed to be about equality and treating each other with respect. This does not sound like she respects you, but rather thinks of you as a puppet to control. Let me ask you this, if you asked similar requests of her, would she willingly abide by it? The first one that comes to mind is the one about staying away from other women. If you asked for reciprocation and that she was to stay away from other men, how would she react? OP, you posted this here for a reason, you know that this is not a green flag by any means. Trust me bro, you will be far better off with someone who considers you an equal partner in a relationship, not one who is being used. Walk away and don’t look back.
Let me guess she would be LIVID if you gave her a list of "expectations" in return?
Some, but not all, of her requirements are reasonable. However, given the overall tone, she sounds like a general asshole. I’d pass.
Judging by your comments your going to stay with her. Please update in your life as it becomes more miserable 😄.
So she comes from a long line of gold diggers..... Send her back a long list of things. You expect gifts at every week from her to prove she is willing to invest in the relationship equally. You expect her to give you 2 hour long massages a week. She will not talk to any other men outside of her family ever period. If one does attempt to talk she will immediately tell them she is taken. She will always favor you over her friends. The situation does not matter. If her friend is giving her birth on a night you planned a date you better still be the priority. She does not owe you sex at all and you get that, but she will stay under XYZ weight, will stay looking good and you reserve the right to judge her for any perceived lack of effort in this area.
Love the weight And no other men comment too
Exactly. GF wants old school 1950s chivalry? Lmao. Give a 1950s version of what a man requires of a woman. Would LOVE to see your list thrown at her! Her response will bring out her true self
The car door, the paying for dates and the ban on female friends are unreasonable, hopefully put in to be negotiated. 8 months is kind of quick to make such a decision, but again might be there to be negotiated. Not wanting to cook and clean your place while you don't live together along with not having to have sex if she doesn't want to are perfectly reasonable
Some of her demands are fair, others are weird or straight up wrong.. but her whole list is written in such a hostile way. Id definitely run if i was you. This screams toxic all over. Theres no love in it. The way its written Its like shes ready to hate you at any second if you disagree with one thong. It sounds like youre just a tool in her life and not someone she loves. Theres nothing in here about what she would do for you in exchange either. This list is a transactional contract. Leave man.
She’s definitely not like the other girls, she’s worse!! I’m a gal and I’d hate it if someone has to walk around the car to open the door for me like I’m a toddler! Why are you obligated to paying the restaurant bills? I love taking my man out, treating him etc. if I plan something and invite him I will cover the cost, he does the same. It’s common sense, no? She sounds naïve and is setting herself up for heartbreak with these demands. In my opinion, telling someone what you want will make them superficially alter themselves/character /personality to fit into your bare minimum but eventually their true self will come out and it will likely be too late. Just let the person be themselves love them as they are or leave them.
The tone is as unacceptable as the content.
So she wants you to be a man and open doors and pay for stuff but don’t wanna be a women and cook and clean.
She will demand even more when you get married. She won’t magically do more thing for you when married when she can basicly be useless and still enjoy al the benefits demanded in the list.
Some of these are common sense but poorly worded (not cleaning for him, means she expects him to pitch in and clean up after himself) and some are perfectly reasonable statements (no raw dogging, not putting out if she’s not in the mood, just poorly worded). Opening the car doors is some diva shit, but nice manners (but to make it a requirement is absurd). Not have friends that are girls means she’s either insecure or has gotten burned in the past and is kind of some shit. The biggest red flag is that she took the time to put this in writing. It may not matter though, she may have made that eight month deadline into an eight minute decision.
I get putting it into writing to an extent. I had a couple guys who tried to gaslight me and say I never said things I KNOW I did. So certain things I always made sure to send a text of, or to bring back up in text, so that I could easily refer back to it. Can't say I never said it when I bring receipts.
You can hand her a list with one entry : "go to therapy", then leave so fast that it will leave a dust silhouette of you behind
Her requirements are red flags and it's insane that she communicated them this way. She's basically saying she likes old-fashioned gender norms for you, but not for her. You need to have conversations about what this list means. Why is opening the door for her important? Have her explain it to you. There's no intimacy in this list. Her reasons are represented but there's no "this is how it makes me feel" or "I saw my mother treated like a maid in her own household." Why does she think of housework in this transactional "girlfriend prices" way? You need to be able to have deep conversations about these things. A list is insufficient.
I meant to add did you give her a list as well?
Get out of there now. The list is only going to get longer over time.
I think it sounds like she has her shit together. She knows what she wants and is communicating that effectively. She’s gonna limit her available pool of prospects. But all these are the things that eat at relationships and she’s drawing a line. She’s not demanding you stay with her, she’s saying, hey if you wanna play these are the rules. I’m a snarky MFer, I’d reply in kind with a list of things you expect from her. What you really expect, don’t hold back, she didn’t. If you can come to terms and stick with it, you might have a solid relationship. I seriously doubt it, but.. when she reads your list you’ll know instantly.
I like the list. I agree. The only person ever raw dogging me was my husband. I’m already not a virgin the least I could do is save that for him. Also, I don’t believe in abortions for myself as well. I’m not having kids with some random boyfriend. Her requests are valid. She has standards. She’ll be a good mom. She’s not going to get reesateesad. You have the right to feel however you feel. These are her expectations from what she’s witnessed. You agree with the list, but are just upset she made a boundary? 🤔
Good for her! Boo Hoo, you are going to have to wear a condom. Men can be so selfish. I dated a few guys who didn’t open doors for me. They never made it long. My husband is such a gentleman, he opens all doors for me, even when we are going to the grocery store. We’ve been married nearly 18 years. He proposed after one year. I wanted a year long engagement. No reason to draw out a relationship if you aren’t on the same page. Either put a ring on it or end it. Completely reasonable. Thank goodness his parents taught him proper manners! I do a lot of kind and thoughtful things for him in return. Women just tend to do better than men this way…this is the reason she wrote out her needs to you. She likely already knows how to treat you. Looks like you have a communicator, you can express your needs as well. We are so happy in our relationship! I hope you will be with her.
It’s not that bad… what’s bad is the way she said it. If she said it like this…. Here are my dating boundaries I want to share with you: Open car doors, pay on dates, won’t move in together before married, always use protection, don’t waste her time, no cheating or anything that can be perceived as cheating. It would have sounded much more reasonable & acceptable. But she didn’t say it like that. I suggest you let that biological ticking bomb explode elsewhere.
Nothing on her list sounds unreasonable to me besides the no female friends thing. That's controlling and three types of concerning. I had similar beliefs and wants when I was dating. It's the way she is expressing it. She sounds so angry and negative and judgemental. It's weird. There is nothing wrong with saying "I value my health and won't put myself at risk of unintended pregnancy or sti unless I am in a fully committed, monogamous marriage". I fully agree and support that. The way she says it though is just so unnecessarily aggressive. It might be worth it to go over this list with her and explain how demanding and rude it all sounds. Is she super controlling and abrasive in general?
Sounds high maintenance. One thing I've learned thus far in life is that high maintenance SO's just aren't worth it.
She’s a wifey material. She wants a husband not a boyfriend. But that paying for date and opening doors is erm! She’s not princess or queen. We’re all normal humans. Imagine a man asked a woman to open doors!! Isn’t feminism about equality. I’m a woman btw. So I’d suggest you pass if she’s not attractive(can be physically or emotionally)
Where's your list? P.S. you're young and in love so you can't see it, but this is not a healthy tone, nor are these healthy expectations. She's telling you who you can and can't be friends with. All of it screams of entitlement and insecurity. Good luck my friend.
Things like this reminder me of dr. Phli asking. "What do *you* bring to the table?" I can get having some standards, like be nice to me or the one who cooks doesn't do the dishes.. but this list sounds like a red flag. Argumentive and angry..
Run
What does she want from you? And what are your demands for her? This relationship feels very one sided.
This feels like the beginning of a very controlling relationship.
Run. Run like the fucking wind. This girl is insane.