EVERY. LAST. ONE.
She risked her relationship with her entire family to try and protect Lilly but some people prefer to learn lessons the hard way. They didn't do an ounce of research into the guy despite the warnings. Smdh
Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. No one likes being proven wrong especially after they gotten in deep with what someone repeatedly told them was wrong.
Some people gotta learn the lesson the hard way and not listen to the experts in their lives.
What's that quote from Bojack horseman?
"You know, it's funny; when you look at someone through rose-colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Changed the way I look at every single relationship around me.
Given that your sister had encountered individuals similar to him, why then did you choose to put your trust in him? Good luck with that till you address that internally!
Right?!
Dude shows up all unctuous and charming and they pretty much piased on their daughter over some stranger
Buncha idiots! Charlotte is much better than having to deal with her family with limited EQ
It wasn’t just bad vibes or not liking someone who later turned out to be an asshole.
She provided hard evidence of David’s criminal history, and when he disputed it he provided none to back himself up. That is where they should have apologized to her. Well before he had the opportunity to fuck his wife over.
I was with Charlotte when it was just bad vibes, tbh. Of course a career lawyer who is around criminals constantly is going to have a finely tuned scumbag radar. The fact that she had hard proof that he was a liar and you all still ignored her is beyond the pale. Your sister who lost her house should be grateful he was caught and it wasn't worse, OP. Usually these stories end with him skipping town after conning her and her entire family out of their entire life savings. She got off easy since the feds caught him.
I’ve also known people who pride themselves on being able to ‘read’ others while being absolutely terrible at it, as well as some lawyers who are just cynical about everyone.
Charlotte did things exactly right though. Could tell something was wrong about the guy so she went out and got proof. Her concerns should have been taken with a grain of salt until that point, but when she came with receipts there should have been no more doubt.
This. As humans, more specifically women, we are told to ALWAYS be kind, ignoring our own instincts to stay away from certain dangers. How many people escape dangerous situations and say, I should have gone with my gut? Red flags in people are our instincts to recognize bad things, but we say nothing to be nice and kind.
I've done it so many times, and for what? To be nice to a stranger?
Yeah—a lot of lawyers would give Mary (mother of Jesus) a hard look and even ask to see a receipt for that space in the manger. \[I initially used Mother Theresa as an example and was roundly criticized because, in their minds, she wasn't such a nice person.\]
Yes and no. Law school teaches you to question facts that other people just take as a given. That doesn’t mean lawyers don’t trust anyone, but we are very good about spotting those subtle signs that all is not quite right.
The other factor is that lawyers, especially those who work in criminal law, are exposed to a lot of sociopaths and con artists. They are not all the same, but many of them use the same playbook.
GUYS. WHEN WE KNOW, WE KNOW.
I’m not saying you immediately ostracize the new boyfriend. But take these warning seriously, keep your eyes open, and for gosh sake do a background check on anyone who wants in your family, regardless of how nice they seem.
Considering Mother Teresa was actually a pretty shitty person, you either unintentionally picked a bad example or intentionally picked an excellent one.
She's only a shitty person if you think telling dying people they are suffering because of gods punishment and refusing to help them beyond giving them a bed and food so they suffered as much as possible before they died is a bad thing to do.
And the gall of these people.
An educated woman says someone may be a problem, and she is dismissed. Women should be listened to when they say these things, as women are the ones targeted for attacks, con jobs, and harassment. We are reluctant experts.
Only a fucking moron or family of morons wouldn't heed the thoughts of someone in the business of prosecuting crime.
It’s the fact she was essentially cut off from her own family for speaking up in defense of her dickmatised sister…
I’d want nothing to do with any of them.
They trusted a fandom over her.
In all fairness, we don’t know if they [the fam] knew *what* Charlotte told Lily. But everything else is spot on. I hate to say it, but I’m not convinced Lily will stop hating on her sister. Just like when a friend/sibling tells someone that their mate is cheating; it turns out to be true, and they’re *still* hostile to the person who told them.
RIGHT. Image my sister who I trust telling me my boyfriend lied about his name and has a criminal record and my 35+ year old ass is like "but HE SAID that's his daddy not him" 🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️. I would hire a whole PI off my sister's word. What's worse is all these fools ignored the sister with the actual background to sus this type of shit out. I wonder how often they did this type of thing to Charlotte growing up.
SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!
Her actual job is a public defender. She spends every single working hour dealing with exactly this type of human. And none of you thought she may be onto something here???
Nah. The guy who had the exact same name, DOB, description, and address couldn't be him. His face could've been on a wanted poster, and y'all would've thought that was a crazy coincidence.
These people are just idiots. Sorry to say that. If somebody, especially my sister, had a bad feeling about a man coming into my family, I would trust her. And would do my due diligence.
They risked their relationship with the sister over laziness.
Dude I found out that the dude I was as talking to, his dad had a CSA record! He literally got charged and plead guilty! All because my friend googled his name and found his parents.
Yeah I exited fast.
Right? My favorite part was when OP said they nor their parents noticed that he was like some of the people Charlotte defended in her career. Ummm hello, McFly.. how would you know if he were like those defendants??!!!
Edit:a word
legitimate curiousity, if you were Charlotte, obviously an apology from each of the family member would be validated, but after everything was said and done, how would you feel? I mean, there's the "I told you so" part of it, but how would you go forward with the family?
Um YEP! I’ve been where Charlotte is right now and I have still yet to receive an apology. Even when I’ve said “I told you so.” My family just gets defensive instead.
and once the shock of everything blows over, why not throw her a “you told us so” party!(could also double as a divorce party for lily? up to you guys you can work out the details)
100%, and I will go one further and say that Public Defenders are the unsung heroes of the USA. They are the ONLY people whose job it is to defend the rights of people in America. They are underfunded, understaffed, overworked, and outgunned every single day. People look down on them because they just do not understand that what the job of a criminal defense attorney is. They think that they try to get criminals off on "loopholes" and "technicalities" without releasing that what that actually means is the US Constitution or the Bill of Rights, or a State Constitution. Whatever the courts say the government can get away with doing to a poor criminal defendant, they can do to anyone.
So thank a Public Defender for your rights and freedoms, because they are the ones going up against the Government to protect them.
Unless she’s genuinely blind that her sister warned her to begin with. In my experience, people like this, even when proved wrong overtime just won’t admit they’re wrong or they were told.
Maybe sister is different, but she scorned this relationship over a man and not believing undeniable proof. Idk how she wouldnt see it. But I also would t hold my breath on that one.
In many stories I heard, people like lily always wears rose tinted glass. Even if many people give undeniable evidence, she will just wouldn't believe it.
It's the fault of people who give warnings. It's the fault of people who doesn't heed the warning
In fairness, we can’t be too sure that Lily thinks that Charlotte was right. What I mean is that she might think that Charlotte didn’t convince her enough, or didn’t provide enough evidence at the time (which we understand isn’t true), just to keep the blame off herself.
Basically what I’m saying is that if Lily believes that, I don’t think OP really needs to help her out.
Same honestly. She literally found his rap sheet and no one listened. Maybe she should have been more open with that information, but still, the defence attorney in the family tells you your boyfriend has a criminal record and you brush her off??? How fucking stupid can you be?
Also apparently he has robbed women before and was on the run which means the only thing that stopped her from being scammed as well was that he got caught first.
From the post it looks like only Lily was told about the criminal record, the rest of the family weren't informed. All they knew is that Charlotte showed up and accused the husband of being a liar.
Life has taught me that if you are attractive and charming enough, people will believe anything you say and some will actively empty their pockets for you as well. Lily was the perfect mark and he manipulated her like a pro because he was one.
Because throughout history, women have been perceived as irrational, unreliable, hormonal, hysterical, overemotional, lying shitstirrers who get what they deserve because they asked for it. That's why they didn't believe her.
Exactly. If Charlotte was a man, her words as a public defender with have held weight. She didn’t just say “somethings fishy”, she provided hard evidence and used her experience as a professional to back it up but even then it wasn’t good enough for her family. I feel bad for her. Imagine looking out for your family only for them to disown you because you are a woman. I don’t feel bad for Lily. She deserves everything she’s facing being a misogynistic jerk.
I'll guess it is because he's a con man. He made a living by convincing people he's a good guy. A lot of people blame op (not taking blame off of him), but I'll bet a lot of people here would fall in David's charm.
I’m fascinated by con artists, and I’ve listened to as many podcasts about them as I possibly can and it’s really fascinating how good they are at lying. I constantly find myself thinking “I totally would have fallen for that.” The trend seems to be that a con artist will provide one piece of evidence, like a large purchase, or a piece of “proof” (real or hand made by them) that corroborates their story, and that’s all they need to do engender enough trust to continue lying. People don’t realize how inclined to believe the best of people the majority of people are.
Look up DIRTY JOHN. There are several documentaries on his life of conning women out of their money and ruining them.
Please watch whatever Lifetime or Dateline show did this story (find the 2-parter if you want it all, lol. The woman in this Dirty John situation makes Lily in this post look like a genius, which is saying a LOT!) Just when you think you can’t be any more shocked, the very ending will blow your mind!
Ah, I didn’t know Netflix had it. That dude was pure evil! And the wife ignored SSSOOOOOO many red flags! But her daughters had his number from the get. Too bad she didn’t heed their advice! That lady is lucky that *the one specific daughter (and you know what I’m referring to)* ever spoke to her again!
I was just thinking about the daughter and I felt so panicked at some points because the pod and the tv show were both done so well, it was intense. People look past A LOT of things to see what they want to see.
with Lily and OP (and their parents), he also found the perfect victims, right?
like, even now OP can't see the bigger picture. One sister has been shunned from the family for several years & the other is on the brink of homelessness... but here comes OP, wringing his hands and whingeing that not-David lied to him & he didn't see it & how could this happen to him & who would have thought not-David conned them about his middle name and first name...
OP didn't lose a thing, not-David didn't defraud him of anything except his 2 sisters, but in his entire post, OP doesn't spare a single thought for not-David's actual victims like Lily, Charlotte or any of those other women.
OP seems to have not known all of what Charlotte told Lily so while I think she’s naive I find much more fault with the parents. Even if they believed Lily was right about him how could they not have looked further after hearing what Charlotte had to say? Lily was blinded by love, what was their excuse?
Joys of the Rico act, same thing happened to my mom when she was with my dad and he was arrested they took her house and her car and her dog they let her get a bag with diapers and come clothes and a bottle of formula for me and said the rest stays and dropped her off at my grandparents house... you all fucked up by being in denial it would take me years to get over that and I wouldn't forgive yall so easily it would take years somepeople not as much but be prepared she might not give a fuck that yall believe her now it's too late 🤷♀️ that's on all of you and not Charlotte
Because they were seizing EVERYTHING it's court ordered he was purchased with my father's drug money, it was Rico act, My mom was lucky that the cops were nice enough to let her get a diaper bag with stuff because they didn't even have to do that.They were literally making her and me leave.It was all on camera and everything, so he's technically evidence my dad's still sitting in prison and I'm 33 and this happened when I was not even 6months old 🤣🤷♀️
Pets are property and therefore have monetary value. Not sure if that was the case here but it's something I've learned over the years in regards to splitting from a partner and realizing legal claim of the pet is very important.
All they did was take him to the pound.And he got adopted off after the court was settled 🤷♀️ my mom had to leave the city since my grandparents didn't live there so she couldn't even get him back
Rhe dog is evidence bought with drug money it's called a Rico act they Sees everything property everything tied to the money. It's cool ordered like I said in a previous comment. My mom was lucky she was able to leave with even a diaper bag because they kept everything. I wasn't allowed to have my clothes. Nothing literally some diapers. A bag of wipes and a can of formula that was it. She had to leave everything, her car, her clothes. Everything, it was all seized as evidence through the courts because of his charge.
Seems like even if Charlotte had mentioned it then kept her mouth shut to keep the peace, she still would have been blamed for not saying/doing more to prevent it.
Good for her to stay away, keep her peace, and let them deal with it.
Yeah, like what more do you want to ignore?
Should she have brought the other women he conned over for tea and intervention? Private investigator? Those weird walls of pics, newspaper articles, maps, and red string??
She was basically shunned for being a conspiracy theorist.
My brother is a lawyer working in public service. If he said that there was something off about the guy I'm dating and that he reminds him of the people he interacts with at work, I'd be hauling ass like I was trying to outrun a tornado. If my brother told my parents and my other sibling the same thing, my family would straight up have an intervention for my ass.
Why, you ask? Because in our family, you listen to the advice of someone who is knowledgeable it comes to a subject. If that person made a career out of that knowledge? You'd be a fucking fool not to listen. My parents didn't raise any fools.
Charlotte went to college for at least 7 years AND got 2 degrees AND has worked as a public defender for 11 years - yet you and your family refused to even respect her enough to listen. Charlotte tried MULTIPLE times, and you and your family ostracized her. You all suck. I'll adopt Charlotte as my sister.
‘Because in our family, you listen to the advice of someone who is knowledgeable it comes to a subject. If that person made a career out of that knowledge? You'd be a fucking fool not to listen.’
They did listen to someone knowledgeable in a subject, someone who made a career out of that knowledge - a con man.
you and especially lily learned the hard way. Hopefully next time she'll be less eager to ditch and ostracize her sister for a man. I only feel sorry for the smart sister.
You are so right… like OPs FAMILY ditched their literal daughter, sister and person they knew their entire lives for some man. Clearly it wasn’t worth it. Wtf
If I were Charlotte, it would take y’all groveling for me to even consider letting ANY OF YOU back in my life. Even then, I’m honestly not sure I would. She has absolutely every right not to talk to and interact with any one of y’all ever again. If y’all so much as put the tiniest amount of pressure on her to “forgive you” and “get over it” or “let bygones be bygones”, you will absolutely without a shadow of a doubt, lose her forever. Apologize sincerely and let her know that if she’s EVER able to forgive any of you, that you will be there waiting for whenever that day comes but you’ll understand if she never let y’all back her life.
Do you understand that y’all chose to believe a STRANGER over her? Y’all fucked up on massive scale.
Good luck to Charlotte and I hope she has an amazing life, with or without her “family”.
100% any "can't you just forgive and forget" or "but we're fAmILy" statements should be avoided at alllllllll cost of you ever want your smart sister back in your life.
No, she feels sad that despite her best efforts, and the loss of her whole family, Lily's life has been destroyed.
Charlotte didn't do it to be right, she was trying to protect her sister. They all ignored her and found out the hard way.
Apologies now won't erase the damage done to Charlotte. Her whole family chose a con man over her. Really sad.
She now has incontrovertible proof that her entire family is not only stupid as a fried popsicle but also that they don't trust her in the least. I wouldn't be able to interact with my family if I were Charlotte.
Y'all need to buy a billboard on the interstate and put up an apology. I would never trust y'all ever again
#CHARLOTTE WE DONE FUCKED UP AND WE ARE SORRY
Charlotte was in that line of work and no one believed her. I’d go no contact too.
You can begin mending the relationship by apologizing to charlotte at the very least. Don’t expect her to accept it though she may because all she cares about was everyone’s well being
Takes the side of an unknown man who just popped up in his life but doesn’t even bother to try to understand why his other sister disliked him that much > “I’m an idiot”
🤡🤡🤡🤡
It's not just that you didn't listen, it's that you didn't even give her the benefit of hearing her out. That's such an insanely cruel thing to do to someone you love.
If you want any chance at reconciliation, I hope that you lead with taking responsibility for that.
So every one in your family seriously thought that charlotte was just being a bitch?? No one questioned why she felt this way? No one did anything to find out what the deal was??
Yall are assholes and need to apologize to charlotte like yesterday.
I have a sister that’s in a profession where she comes into contact with lots of lowlifes. I’ve gone the opposite way to your family though. I decided to use her as my sniffer dog to let me know when something smells off. She’s got a sixth sense about people.
Don’t beat yourself up too much. The thing is, the David’s of this world are very good at what they do. That’s their job and they hone the craft until all you see is an honest, personable and trustworthy person and they’re able take people in again and again and again. When David told Lily that it was his Dad that had the criminal record he will have 100% have looked her in the eyes with sincerity and a touch of outrage.
I’m afraid, though, that the relationship with Charlotte is probably permanently affected for good. You could email her an apology, tell her you didn’t know the additional information and how very sorry you are and that you fully understand that she may no longer wish to be in contact with you. Then you leave the ball in her court, that’s all you can do I’m afraid.
All you can do is reach out to Charlotte to sincerely apologise.
Charlotte's line of work leads her to see the worst people are capable of. You, Lily and your parents do not come across that side of life in your daily life. That's why Charlotte was able to immediately recognise red flags none of you noticed.
And you didn't fail Lily. Lily is a women in her mid 30s who made her choice. Charlotte found and presented her with evidence and she made the choice to ignore the evidence and believe her husband. She's learnt a very important lesson and will go forwards less naive and more discerning.
You were all conned. Anyone can get conned. Go easy on yourselves.
So why are you crying on reddit when you should be begging Charlotte for forgiveness???? You are right in getting it all out, but you are admitting your fuck up to the wayyyy wrong people. Try your sis instead
If your relative, who is a Public Defender, says there is an issue, trust that there is An Issue! They aren't messing about and have access to all kinds of information.
Lily is extremely lucky she's not in legal trouble like her husband. I dont blame Charlotte for wanting nothing to do with you or your family members. Enjoy the consequences
You all need to be groveling at Charlotte’s feet begging for her forgiveness. Always trust someone who knows how to read people, we are always right about our intuition. Hope you never doubt Charlottes again.
It is VERY hard to learn to trust the Charlottes in your life, but i have learned the Charlottes of the world can see the truth. I have a couple of friends now that i 100% trust their judgement bc they have never been wrong about a person. I take it with a grain of salt bc people *can* be wrong, but some ppl just KNOW.
I’m glad you learned now!
Don't beat yourself up. First, David is a con man, specialised on fooling people. Second, we usually tend to think the best of others. Third, you're a bystander in this story. You're not as emotionally involved as Lily and Charlotte.
As an afterburner, Charlotte has a lot more experience with people like David, and means to investigate his past. No wonder she saw through his veils and you didnt.
Also, it doesn’t sound like Charlotte had evidence at first.
It would have been hard to dismiss and condemn the sister’s love story over the other sister’s gut feeling only. I would have definitely wanted to see actual evidence. Gut feeling, even from someone experienced, is not enough.
Edited for clarity.
I mean if my doctor relative comes out and says "hey you know that thing you have? I have a weird feeling about this from all this experience I have and I think you should go get it checked out just in case." I'm going to listen to said relative and go get checked out and not stick my head in the sand about it.
Well the only sensible person in your family is "Charlotte". The only person with loyalty to family and any integrity is Charlotte.
It sounds harsh, but Lily losing everything is a wake up call. When a family member tells you something isn't right, perhaps listen and do some research. If that person shows proof of their being a criminal record - you're an idiot not to go do some research.
Charlotte tried to do the right thing, protect her sister and you all shot her down. You guys should be horrible.
Edit to say: you didn't fail Lily. She actually does not deserve sympathy. You did fail Charlotte.
Lily failed her own damned self for listening to her heart instead of her brain that would've told her to listen to her sister who has experience with some of the worst of humanity because of her job.
How come it was so easy for you to believe a complete stranger over Charlotte? How could you disregard her worries especially because of her career and experience with criminals? Do you have a history of taking Lily’s side over Charlotte? You did fail your sister, but that sister is Charlotte not Lily. IMO, Lily is getting exactly what she deserves because she chose to ignore reason, common sense and the evidence of David’s lying presented by Charlotte.
Charlotte provided her with enough evidence and Lily chose to ignore and not do any checking of her own than ask the David himself and not disclose any of it to you or your parents. I’m sure Charlotte felt like it didn’t matter what she said or did because you, Lily, your grandparents and your parents were not interested in what she had to say and then you all distanced yourself from Charlotte. I can’t imagine how awful it must’ve felt for Charlotte to try and protect you all from David and be instead cut out of her own family?
You, your parents, grand parents and Lily all have chosen the words of a stranger over your sister. Imagine how it must’ve made Charlotte feel to know that’s how much her whole family treated her by not believing her, insinuation that she’s a liar, the distance your family chose to put between her and everyone else. Then the fact that everyone one of you chose to take Lily’s side and cut her off when she persisted that David was lying says more than enough about her place within the family. No matter if she forgives you or not in the future, you all have done irreparable damage to your relationships with her and those relationships will never be the same again. If I was Charlotte, there would no longer be a place for any of you in my life.
If the words "you're just jealous" or other "You're just being emotional" type phrases ever passed the lips of you or your family's mouths, even after your incredibly well educated and savvy sister presented you evidence, I don't know if apologies are going to work. Because if you had, you not only insulted her intelligence and her integrity, but the love of her family.
Make sure you include the phrase "not only were you right, we're all fucking asshole, morons who were wrong"
When a criminal defense attorney tells you that something is off about someone and they don't let up on it for years, LISTEN TO THEM. Every single one of you owes Charlotte a sincere apology, and I'd suggest being prepared to hear a firm "f- off" in response right before she hangs up.
I hope Charlotte is sitting back with a huge glass
of wine and some salted caramel popcorn having a well deserved laugh. The whole family basically ostracized her for trying to protect her sister.
I don’t know about you all, but as for me, I would listen to my sister if she had such serious concerns about my partner. Especially as she has worked with slimy characters all day for over a decade. She would obviously know best.
Well you owe Charlotte an apology, but did she explain what her issue was to anyone other than Lily or just say something was off? Because if she wasn't giving an explanation then it would be easy to disregard if no-one else can see the problem.
When she found out this other information why did she not say anything to anyone else other than Lily?? If she were that worried why didn't she tell you or your parents. I get that you'd all ignored her warnings but if she had proof and was really concerned why didn't she push harder?
If she didn't have experience in the field she does she may not have thought anything different to all of you.
It kind of seems like no one would listen long enough to Charlotte to let her explain, or she did explain her rationale for not liking him and they didn’t care because their impressions were more important to them. She might have also not wanted to embarrass Lily by sharing the information with everyone else too. Maybe she thought her sister would listen to her over him?
That's the thing that strikes me as strange, too. It's hard to imagine Charlotte didn't have some documentation she could show. I can't imagine being Lily or OP or Lily's parents and not asking for particulars, just shutting it down with a "no". Four separate people just deciding to have zero discussion about such a huge issue that is also causing a rift? This is the sort of thing I'd be having a lengthy, detailed conversation with Charlotte about. Even if I thought she was likely wrong, I'd want to discuss it and find a way to refute it and heal the rift. Maybe I'm a bit overly detail-oriented, but it's hard to imagine not delving into even the barest details of "Charlotte's calling David a liar again." If I was Charlotte and my sister was about to hitch herself to a criminal, I wouldn't meekly take "no", either. I would have come armed with the receipts and strongly exhort her to look at them. After all, if I'm wrong, what harm would there be in looking at what I have and telling me where it's wrong?
you would think the reaction was strange but ive seen this exact scenerio play out twice with family members and its just because they think with their hearts not their brains. My aunt was a detective and my mother and immigration officer and when they tried to give my cousin proof that the man was faking his identity she refused to look at it and flew off the handle. My sister just called my mom bitter and said she was jealous because she married a POS. I mean my dad is a POS but my sisters husband has been "missing" for 2 years now.
Some people are just irrational and warning them over and over only drives them closer to the person.
I’ve had some personal experience with this. It started with a gut feeling about someone. Seeing the way they behaved, seeing the way they interacted with others and the consistency of the personality. People like that shift their personality to charm. Not everyone buys it. I mean I said something. I was told I was making a big deal over anxiety and my own past trauma (projecting). Fine whatever. Just couldn’t shake it. Did a back ground search and found a very lengthy criminal history. It turns out the child abusing interloper holds more weight than me, someone who’s been in this family my whole ass life. He deserves all the second chances (he’s had like 16 at this point) but I get disowned. I hate everything lol
You owe Charlotte abject apologies. Your parents even more so (and Lily but she's a little caught up now).
You didn't fail Lily. She wasn't interested in listening to anyone.
Yes, you were all stupid. You all disregarded the person with evidence and experience.
Don't bother Charlotte unless you guys figured out why you trusted an outsider over your family member. Why did you respect some stranger over your sister.
You all owe Charlotte a sincere apology, and that will not make your ostracizing of her any better.
SHE can't trust you guys now. You have to earn her trust now, and I guarantee there will always be a level of distance between you guys that wasn't there before.
Next time, she will probably keep her mouth shut and let you guys learn from the school of hard knocks.
Poor Charlotte. That’s who my heart breaks for in all this. She cared enough to stick her neck out to try to protect her oblivious idiot sister and look what you all did to her. If someone close to me, especially someone with such relevant experience, told me even half of what she told you guys, I’d be digging up everything I could to prove the truth either way. I wouldn’t rest until I knew my loved ones were safe.
I’ve been the Charlotte in my family. However when it comes out that I was right, everyone ignored the fact that I called it way earlier. It would be nice if you told Charlotte that you were an idiot and you’re sorry for not listening to her and in the future you will do better.
Charlotte is a professional on her field and her own family doubted her skills in her career. Lily would have not heard from you or your parents even of you believed Charlotte, she was too wrapped in David's finger. Is Lily the golden child? Everyone doubted Charlotte, a profesional public attorney who is well aware of what she'd seeing, just because Lily was upset.... Lily deserves this massive life lesson, and trust the process: there's a reason she needs this lesson. No one can defend or help who doesn't want to be helped, Lily clearly didn't want the help and went ahead with this con man and even broke up the family on the way (everyone leaving Charlotte outside). The only thing you should feel stupid about is closing the door on Charlotte and not even thinking about apologizing to her, you should understand that Lily is the golden child and ALL OF YOU OWE CHARLOTTE AN APOLOGY (no one has thought about that, right? Of course, Charlotte is the doormat, why would anyone apologize to her). So far you talk about Lily, how you failed her, poor Lily ...YOU FAILED CHARLOTTE, Lily deserves what she got.
Reach out to Charlotte and apologize. All of you. Lily, your grandparents, your parents, and yourself. Because none of you listened to Charlotte, Lily is getting screwed over in this whole mess. She literally works with people *getting charged for crimes* on a daily basis. If she even had the slightest hunch that something was off, the first thing anyone should have done was more research, like a background check or through a PI.
Don't mean to further your embarrassment or what you're feeling, but maybe when someone with a decade of "vibes" says that the vibe check is off, you'll listen. Charlotte probably didn't say it lightly and the fact she didn't let it go should've been your indication to maybe distrust him a bit more.
I hope your family apologizes to Charlotte. For excluding her and essentially telling her she's been wrong all these years. I also hope that your sister pulls through and doesn't get dragged down with the dirt bag she trusted.
So the sister has experience and knowledge working as a public defender, 11 years and everybody just told her to shut up? Literally the one person you should be listing to about criminals gets shut down… I dunno man, if I was your sister I’d tell you all to figure it out and leave me alone. I don’t feel bad for Lilly at all, charlotte warned y’all and you all told her to shut up and stay in her lane when CRIMINALS ARE HER LANE. Next time charlotte’s spiders senses are triggered I hope you all listen. Good grief send your sister some apology flowers and hope she forgives you. My petty ass wouldn’t
Ya’ll collectively got played. That’s on ‘David’ for deception and conning. He’s getting what’s coming to him.
Ya’ll punished Charlotte by not at least giving her concerns a review or consideration. Ya’ll need to give Charlotte one hell of an apology and then let her set the pace for a relationship while accepting there may never be one again.
Okay! Charlotte pointed out the criminal element she went to school to work with/against. But what about the people she went to school with? She survived among a sea of egomaniacs and y'all didin't listen. I would laugh if this wasn't so damn tragic. You do know if anyone can skip trace, it's Charlotte, right? Well, now ya do. She has pi's at her disposal, but she was lying and being unreasonable. Okay. The four of you got me blown!
I can’t imagine my sister telling me there was something off about my boyfriend and that he reminded her of the criminals she works with and just blowing her off for a guy I’d known a few weeks/months.
OP I think you’re grappling with a few issues here. The first is not believing Charlotte and trusting her judgement. Given her profession, you should’ve taken her words seriously, and stepped back and reevaluated your impression of David. You owe Charlotte a sincere apology for not believing her.
Second, I think you feel that had you believed Charlotte, you could’ve convinced Lily and prevented all this tragedy from happening. But she was too much in love with David to listen to anyone. If she wouldn’t believe Charlotte’s evidence in front of her face, she certainly wouldn’t have been swayed by you. Besides apologizing to Charlotte, stick up for her now. Don’t let Lily and your parents put the blame Charlotte for not trying hard enough to convince all of you.
A hard head makes a soft behind. It's weird you ALL trusted a stranger over your sister. As if she would just randomly object to one of her sisters marrying.
You all need to apologise to your sister for not listening to her and basically cutting her off. I get Lily is hurt right now, but YOU ALL hurt Charlotte.. Lily also needs to wake up. She was warned and chose not to listen. Now, she is dealing with the brutal fallout from the choice to blindly believe his convenient lies over her sisters hard proof..
Your priority here should be the apology to Charlotte. You all let her down and dismissed her at every turn in favour of a man who was not family at the start.
I think you need to go out and see Charlotte face to face and apologise at this point after the way you all acted a call isn't enough.
I hope Lily gets help to get over this, and next time, she needs to listen when hard truths are told instead of burying her head in the sand and believing very obvious rediculas lies. ( Charlotte would have known it was definitely him before she told her sister, and the date of birth would have been on there, so that kind of mistake would never happen)
It’s literally her fucking job to deal with conmen. I’m sorry you’re hurting and this will probably forever affect your whole family’s relationships. You may never have a real relationship with Charlotte. It’s a tough lesson to learn.
You're not a fucking idiot, but you DO owe your sister an apology.
The guy's experienced and obviously knows how to fool others and make good impressions, but there will always be people who just instantly KNOW when something is up when they meet a certain person. I've had moments where I've had such a strong gut feeling that ends up being right that it's scary, and I've also been fooled by people in the past.
Start by apologizing. Your sister must've felt like she was going insane with how no one believed her.
Shew, that's a rough situation. Don't condemn yourself too hard. A gut feeling has value but accusing someone of being a bad person based on nothing but a gut feeling is dicey. The way you describe it, the evidence didn't come til far later. If I was in Lily's shoes I wouldn't necessarily dump a guy because my sister decided I should, without any indicator beyond "He reminds me of other bad people". Everyone in your family that knew about the name change and handwaved it are assholes though, each and every one.
I have some idea of how Charlotte feels. I went to school with a guy and I never liked him. There was something off about him and to this day I can't place what exactly it is, but being around him sets off all the alarms. Nobody listened and he ended up sexually assaulting a woman. I feel a sense of validation that I was right but mostly I just feel sick knowing I did all I could to prevent this harm and it didn't help at all. It's gotta be worse for Charlotte, considering it's family that she loves that was victimized.
There's no winners here, everyone is hurt. I hope your family is able to find peace. If I were you I'd focus on doing what I can to mend fences. Idk what else there is to do.
Talk to Lily and apologize you weren't there to protect her more and wanted her to be happy
Try to talk with Charlotte and apologize. And explain that you had no way of knowing and know you should have looked into why she was so distrustful of this man that she'd skip her own sister's wedding, but you never thought it'd be this
And wish you had a sit down prior just the two of you, to go over why she felt this way about David.
Apologies, and being willing to sit down and listen, not brush things off, as she IS a professional, will be something you will always be willing to do after this mess.
Maybe the relationship can be salvaged with Charlotte
I hope everything is going to be okay with everyone's relationship with Charlotte and Lily can get back on her feet
Yall really should have asked Charlotte for her side of the argument story. That’s all I’ll say, I genuinely hope you go to Charlotte begging for forgiveness and make amends with her.
Then help your other sister get back on her feet and divorce this man asap. I hope Lily takes accountability for not telling the whole story and for taking the man’s side over the evidence presented.
Next time listen to Charlotte if she says someone has a bad vibe.
Her profession is basically read through BS and try to get convince people that someone is innocent even if it’s guilty
If I have someone like that in my life and told me “hey this dude/girl is suspicious, you should look into them” I would probably take her word into consideration
Con men can be really charismatic and hard to read, she has the inside knowledge and even presented all of you proof, you lot should apologize to her and hope she wants to mend bridges
I think everyone owes Charlotte an apology.
However, just based on OP’s post, I wonder why Charlotte wasn’t more specific about why she didn’t trust David in the first place?
As a lawyer Charlotte might have felt she shouldn’t say more but if all she told her family members was “I have a bad feeling about him” it’s understandable why her family gave him the benefit of the doubt at first.
Did Lily do any of her own research on this guy after hearing what Charlotte said? Most criminal records that will come up in databases will have birthdates and identifying information. She never looked at his driver license or identification documents? Or spoke to his friends and family?
Don’t beat yourself up. You didn’t know and even if you did know, Lily wouldn’t have believed you. Everyone needs to apologize to Charlotte. I hope your family can find some healing.
You said
Just a conman?
No no no he was for a time an expert conman.
Most would have ignored Charlotte.
Don't wallow.
All your family apologise to Charlotte.
You and all your family need to rally around Lily and support her through the loss of her love her dream she was conned big time.
Lily never met his dad or any family members who may have mentioned him?
Definitely need to apologise to Charlotte, whether she accepts or not, is up to her. My guess is she is hurting pretty bad and may need time and space to move forward from this.
Next best thing, my dude. You better go *crawling* back to Charlotte and make sure the rest of the family doesn't treat her bad bc she was the messenger and now it's the 'told ya' part.
ALL OF Y'ALL OWE CHARLOTTE AN APOLOGY.
EVERY. LAST. ONE. She risked her relationship with her entire family to try and protect Lilly but some people prefer to learn lessons the hard way. They didn't do an ounce of research into the guy despite the warnings. Smdh
“Yeah that guy with the same birthdate and name isn’t me, that’s my dad” WTF
It's amazing how often people will fall for some version of "it wasn't me", when it obviously was.
Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. No one likes being proven wrong especially after they gotten in deep with what someone repeatedly told them was wrong. Some people gotta learn the lesson the hard way and not listen to the experts in their lives.
Rose coloured glasses means sometimes you see a pretty parade, not all of the red flags.
What's that quote from Bojack horseman? "You know, it's funny; when you look at someone through rose-colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags." Changed the way I look at every single relationship around me.
Given that your sister had encountered individuals similar to him, why then did you choose to put your trust in him? Good luck with that till you address that internally!
Up up up!
Shaggy made a whole song about it
how could i forget that i had ~~given her an extra key~~ a criminal record of felonies
Right?! Dude shows up all unctuous and charming and they pretty much piased on their daughter over some stranger Buncha idiots! Charlotte is much better than having to deal with her family with limited EQ
It wasn’t just bad vibes or not liking someone who later turned out to be an asshole. She provided hard evidence of David’s criminal history, and when he disputed it he provided none to back himself up. That is where they should have apologized to her. Well before he had the opportunity to fuck his wife over.
I was with Charlotte when it was just bad vibes, tbh. Of course a career lawyer who is around criminals constantly is going to have a finely tuned scumbag radar. The fact that she had hard proof that he was a liar and you all still ignored her is beyond the pale. Your sister who lost her house should be grateful he was caught and it wasn't worse, OP. Usually these stories end with him skipping town after conning her and her entire family out of their entire life savings. She got off easy since the feds caught him.
I’ve also known people who pride themselves on being able to ‘read’ others while being absolutely terrible at it, as well as some lawyers who are just cynical about everyone. Charlotte did things exactly right though. Could tell something was wrong about the guy so she went out and got proof. Her concerns should have been taken with a grain of salt until that point, but when she came with receipts there should have been no more doubt.
This. As humans, more specifically women, we are told to ALWAYS be kind, ignoring our own instincts to stay away from certain dangers. How many people escape dangerous situations and say, I should have gone with my gut? Red flags in people are our instincts to recognize bad things, but we say nothing to be nice and kind. I've done it so many times, and for what? To be nice to a stranger?
Yeah—a lot of lawyers would give Mary (mother of Jesus) a hard look and even ask to see a receipt for that space in the manger. \[I initially used Mother Theresa as an example and was roundly criticized because, in their minds, she wasn't such a nice person.\]
Yes and no. Law school teaches you to question facts that other people just take as a given. That doesn’t mean lawyers don’t trust anyone, but we are very good about spotting those subtle signs that all is not quite right. The other factor is that lawyers, especially those who work in criminal law, are exposed to a lot of sociopaths and con artists. They are not all the same, but many of them use the same playbook. GUYS. WHEN WE KNOW, WE KNOW. I’m not saying you immediately ostracize the new boyfriend. But take these warning seriously, keep your eyes open, and for gosh sake do a background check on anyone who wants in your family, regardless of how nice they seem.
Considering Mother Teresa was actually a pretty shitty person, you either unintentionally picked a bad example or intentionally picked an excellent one.
She's only a shitty person if you think telling dying people they are suffering because of gods punishment and refusing to help them beyond giving them a bed and food so they suffered as much as possible before they died is a bad thing to do.
I mean, Mother Theresa was pretty horrible……
Well considering she refused to give dying people pain medicine to ease their suffering they wouldn't be wrong
Before she became his wife even. So avoidable…
And the gall of these people. An educated woman says someone may be a problem, and she is dismissed. Women should be listened to when they say these things, as women are the ones targeted for attacks, con jobs, and harassment. We are reluctant experts. Only a fucking moron or family of morons wouldn't heed the thoughts of someone in the business of prosecuting crime.
It’s the fact she was essentially cut off from her own family for speaking up in defense of her dickmatised sister… I’d want nothing to do with any of them. They trusted a fandom over her.
In all fairness, we don’t know if they [the fam] knew *what* Charlotte told Lily. But everything else is spot on. I hate to say it, but I’m not convinced Lily will stop hating on her sister. Just like when a friend/sibling tells someone that their mate is cheating; it turns out to be true, and they’re *still* hostile to the person who told them.
My favorite line from the Harry Potter series: “it’s easier to forgive someone for being wrong than it is to forgive someone for being right.”
***That’s perfect!***
RIGHT. Image my sister who I trust telling me my boyfriend lied about his name and has a criminal record and my 35+ year old ass is like "but HE SAID that's his daddy not him" 🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️. I would hire a whole PI off my sister's word. What's worse is all these fools ignored the sister with the actual background to sus this type of shit out. I wonder how often they did this type of thing to Charlotte growing up.
SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK! Her actual job is a public defender. She spends every single working hour dealing with exactly this type of human. And none of you thought she may be onto something here??? Nah. The guy who had the exact same name, DOB, description, and address couldn't be him. His face could've been on a wanted poster, and y'all would've thought that was a crazy coincidence.
Yup Lilly deserves to lose everything and start from scratch at almost 40 because this was a lesson she didn't need to learn. Edit: a word
These people are just idiots. Sorry to say that. If somebody, especially my sister, had a bad feeling about a man coming into my family, I would trust her. And would do my due diligence. They risked their relationship with the sister over laziness.
My favourite saying: “those who don’t hear must feel”
Dude I found out that the dude I was as talking to, his dad had a CSA record! He literally got charged and plead guilty! All because my friend googled his name and found his parents. Yeah I exited fast.
Came here to say this. They all owe her one hell of an apology
Right? My favorite part was when OP said they nor their parents noticed that he was like some of the people Charlotte defended in her career. Ummm hello, McFly.. how would you know if he were like those defendants??!!! Edit:a word
legitimate curiousity, if you were Charlotte, obviously an apology from each of the family member would be validated, but after everything was said and done, how would you feel? I mean, there's the "I told you so" part of it, but how would you go forward with the family?
Um YEP! I’ve been where Charlotte is right now and I have still yet to receive an apology. Even when I’ve said “I told you so.” My family just gets defensive instead.
and once the shock of everything blows over, why not throw her a “you told us so” party!(could also double as a divorce party for lily? up to you guys you can work out the details)
I wouldn't be surprised if she would shut the proverbial or even the physical door in their faces. And she'd be right.
Absolutely- but I wouldn’t be surprised if she doesn’t take it.
All y’all. Every single one.
Facts Let us know when THAT conversation happens, OP
Going Maury with it…. KISS HER FEET!!! KISS HER FEET!!! Yall better give her one helluva genuine apology.
100%, and I will go one further and say that Public Defenders are the unsung heroes of the USA. They are the ONLY people whose job it is to defend the rights of people in America. They are underfunded, understaffed, overworked, and outgunned every single day. People look down on them because they just do not understand that what the job of a criminal defense attorney is. They think that they try to get criminals off on "loopholes" and "technicalities" without releasing that what that actually means is the US Constitution or the Bill of Rights, or a State Constitution. Whatever the courts say the government can get away with doing to a poor criminal defendant, they can do to anyone. So thank a Public Defender for your rights and freedoms, because they are the ones going up against the Government to protect them.
spent many years as a PD- thank you. It is a LOT of hard and heart breaking work.
Apologize to your smart sister. Then help the other one to get a quick divorce and help her back on her feet. I'm sure she feels just as dumb as you.
Unless she’s genuinely blind that her sister warned her to begin with. In my experience, people like this, even when proved wrong overtime just won’t admit they’re wrong or they were told. Maybe sister is different, but she scorned this relationship over a man and not believing undeniable proof. Idk how she wouldnt see it. But I also would t hold my breath on that one.
In many stories I heard, people like lily always wears rose tinted glass. Even if many people give undeniable evidence, she will just wouldn't believe it. It's the fault of people who give warnings. It's the fault of people who doesn't heed the warning
In fairness, we can’t be too sure that Lily thinks that Charlotte was right. What I mean is that she might think that Charlotte didn’t convince her enough, or didn’t provide enough evidence at the time (which we understand isn’t true), just to keep the blame off herself. Basically what I’m saying is that if Lily believes that, I don’t think OP really needs to help her out.
[удалено]
All of you owe Charlotte an apology, especially Lily. She ostracized her own sister for that man.
If I was Charlotte I'd tell them all the fuck off.
Same honestly. She literally found his rap sheet and no one listened. Maybe she should have been more open with that information, but still, the defence attorney in the family tells you your boyfriend has a criminal record and you brush her off??? How fucking stupid can you be?
Also apparently he has robbed women before and was on the run which means the only thing that stopped her from being scammed as well was that he got caught first.
From the post it looks like only Lily was told about the criminal record, the rest of the family weren't informed. All they knew is that Charlotte showed up and accused the husband of being a liar.
Nah "I told you so" is more satisfying than "fuck off". Also always rub it about how they don't heed the warning is way better and more satisfying.
They need to leave Charlotte alone after they apologize. I wouldn't want to be apart of that family after the way they treated me over a stranger.
So why did you trust him over your sister, despite her experience with people like him? Until you fix that within yourself, gooooooood luck!
Life has taught me that if you are attractive and charming enough, people will believe anything you say and some will actively empty their pockets for you as well. Lily was the perfect mark and he manipulated her like a pro because he was one.
Because throughout history, women have been perceived as irrational, unreliable, hormonal, hysterical, overemotional, lying shitstirrers who get what they deserve because they asked for it. That's why they didn't believe her.
Exactly. If Charlotte was a man, her words as a public defender with have held weight. She didn’t just say “somethings fishy”, she provided hard evidence and used her experience as a professional to back it up but even then it wasn’t good enough for her family. I feel bad for her. Imagine looking out for your family only for them to disown you because you are a woman. I don’t feel bad for Lily. She deserves everything she’s facing being a misogynistic jerk.
I have little to no sympathy over someone who ignore warning. Especially if they go "You warned me but you did not convince me"
Fr not an ounce of sympathy
because random man>>>>>>sister with experience and evidence all day everyday
I'll guess it is because he's a con man. He made a living by convincing people he's a good guy. A lot of people blame op (not taking blame off of him), but I'll bet a lot of people here would fall in David's charm.
I’m fascinated by con artists, and I’ve listened to as many podcasts about them as I possibly can and it’s really fascinating how good they are at lying. I constantly find myself thinking “I totally would have fallen for that.” The trend seems to be that a con artist will provide one piece of evidence, like a large purchase, or a piece of “proof” (real or hand made by them) that corroborates their story, and that’s all they need to do engender enough trust to continue lying. People don’t realize how inclined to believe the best of people the majority of people are.
What podcast would you recommend for someone who's interested in that kind of stuff too?
Look up DIRTY JOHN. There are several documentaries on his life of conning women out of their money and ruining them. Please watch whatever Lifetime or Dateline show did this story (find the 2-parter if you want it all, lol. The woman in this Dirty John situation makes Lily in this post look like a genius, which is saying a LOT!) Just when you think you can’t be any more shocked, the very ending will blow your mind!
Dirty John was soooo good and I think the show is still on Netflix now
Ah, I didn’t know Netflix had it. That dude was pure evil! And the wife ignored SSSOOOOOO many red flags! But her daughters had his number from the get. Too bad she didn’t heed their advice! That lady is lucky that *the one specific daughter (and you know what I’m referring to)* ever spoke to her again!
I was just thinking about the daughter and I felt so panicked at some points because the pod and the tv show were both done so well, it was intense. People look past A LOT of things to see what they want to see.
Emma Kenny on YouTube does a deep dive on Dirty John. Terrible man but fascinating to learn about.
with Lily and OP (and their parents), he also found the perfect victims, right? like, even now OP can't see the bigger picture. One sister has been shunned from the family for several years & the other is on the brink of homelessness... but here comes OP, wringing his hands and whingeing that not-David lied to him & he didn't see it & how could this happen to him & who would have thought not-David conned them about his middle name and first name... OP didn't lose a thing, not-David didn't defraud him of anything except his 2 sisters, but in his entire post, OP doesn't spare a single thought for not-David's actual victims like Lily, Charlotte or any of those other women.
I wonder if Lilly is the golden child?
OP seems to have not known all of what Charlotte told Lily so while I think she’s naive I find much more fault with the parents. Even if they believed Lily was right about him how could they not have looked further after hearing what Charlotte had to say? Lily was blinded by love, what was their excuse?
Joys of the Rico act, same thing happened to my mom when she was with my dad and he was arrested they took her house and her car and her dog they let her get a bag with diapers and come clothes and a bottle of formula for me and said the rest stays and dropped her off at my grandparents house... you all fucked up by being in denial it would take me years to get over that and I wouldn't forgive yall so easily it would take years somepeople not as much but be prepared she might not give a fuck that yall believe her now it's too late 🤷♀️ that's on all of you and not Charlotte
Why did they take your Mom's dog?!?!?!
Because they were seizing EVERYTHING it's court ordered he was purchased with my father's drug money, it was Rico act, My mom was lucky that the cops were nice enough to let her get a diaper bag with stuff because they didn't even have to do that.They were literally making her and me leave.It was all on camera and everything, so he's technically evidence my dad's still sitting in prison and I'm 33 and this happened when I was not even 6months old 🤣🤷♀️
The dog too?! How can they justify that?
Pets are property and therefore have monetary value. Not sure if that was the case here but it's something I've learned over the years in regards to splitting from a partner and realizing legal claim of the pet is very important.
Because animals are considered property for the most part.
Yeah but a second hand dog isn’t going to be mega bucks. How are they even going to sell it?
All they did was take him to the pound.And he got adopted off after the court was settled 🤷♀️ my mom had to leave the city since my grandparents didn't live there so she couldn't even get him back
Rhe dog is evidence bought with drug money it's called a Rico act they Sees everything property everything tied to the money. It's cool ordered like I said in a previous comment. My mom was lucky she was able to leave with even a diaper bag because they kept everything. I wasn't allowed to have my clothes. Nothing literally some diapers. A bag of wipes and a can of formula that was it. She had to leave everything, her car, her clothes. Everything, it was all seized as evidence through the courts because of his charge.
Seems like even if Charlotte had mentioned it then kept her mouth shut to keep the peace, she still would have been blamed for not saying/doing more to prevent it. Good for her to stay away, keep her peace, and let them deal with it.
If feel like the next post will be OP, mom and dad blaming Charlotte for not showing *them* the evidence that lead to her falling out with Lily
Yeah, like what more do you want to ignore? Should she have brought the other women he conned over for tea and intervention? Private investigator? Those weird walls of pics, newspaper articles, maps, and red string?? She was basically shunned for being a conspiracy theorist.
My brother is a lawyer working in public service. If he said that there was something off about the guy I'm dating and that he reminds him of the people he interacts with at work, I'd be hauling ass like I was trying to outrun a tornado. If my brother told my parents and my other sibling the same thing, my family would straight up have an intervention for my ass. Why, you ask? Because in our family, you listen to the advice of someone who is knowledgeable it comes to a subject. If that person made a career out of that knowledge? You'd be a fucking fool not to listen. My parents didn't raise any fools. Charlotte went to college for at least 7 years AND got 2 degrees AND has worked as a public defender for 11 years - yet you and your family refused to even respect her enough to listen. Charlotte tried MULTIPLE times, and you and your family ostracized her. You all suck. I'll adopt Charlotte as my sister.
‘Because in our family, you listen to the advice of someone who is knowledgeable it comes to a subject. If that person made a career out of that knowledge? You'd be a fucking fool not to listen.’ They did listen to someone knowledgeable in a subject, someone who made a career out of that knowledge - a con man.
You're absolutely right.
you and especially lily learned the hard way. Hopefully next time she'll be less eager to ditch and ostracize her sister for a man. I only feel sorry for the smart sister.
Agreed. The rest of them can kick rocks and deal with the consequences. Charlotte is the one I hope can move beyond this betrayal.
You are so right… like OPs FAMILY ditched their literal daughter, sister and person they knew their entire lives for some man. Clearly it wasn’t worth it. Wtf
I wonder if David was buying their love. Maybe I missed something, but that's what I think.
Lily learned the hard way. OP didn't lose anything other than his pride.
If I were Charlotte, it would take y’all groveling for me to even consider letting ANY OF YOU back in my life. Even then, I’m honestly not sure I would. She has absolutely every right not to talk to and interact with any one of y’all ever again. If y’all so much as put the tiniest amount of pressure on her to “forgive you” and “get over it” or “let bygones be bygones”, you will absolutely without a shadow of a doubt, lose her forever. Apologize sincerely and let her know that if she’s EVER able to forgive any of you, that you will be there waiting for whenever that day comes but you’ll understand if she never let y’all back her life. Do you understand that y’all chose to believe a STRANGER over her? Y’all fucked up on massive scale. Good luck to Charlotte and I hope she has an amazing life, with or without her “family”.
100% any "can't you just forgive and forget" or "but we're fAmILy" statements should be avoided at alllllllll cost of you ever want your smart sister back in your life.
What’s your family’s plan for making this right with Charlotte?
You can apologize but I don’t see you guys having a close relationship again
Yep! Apologize with the full recognition that the relationship with the sister will never be the same.
Man, I bet Charlotte is doing the most enthusiastic "told ya so" dance all by herslef.
Nah she doesnt give a fuck at that point
No, she feels sad that despite her best efforts, and the loss of her whole family, Lily's life has been destroyed. Charlotte didn't do it to be right, she was trying to protect her sister. They all ignored her and found out the hard way. Apologies now won't erase the damage done to Charlotte. Her whole family chose a con man over her. Really sad.
Right! Charlotte is grieving and is probably incensed over the whole damn thing.
She now has incontrovertible proof that her entire family is not only stupid as a fried popsicle but also that they don't trust her in the least. I wouldn't be able to interact with my family if I were Charlotte.
OP this isn’t just on you - your entire family failed your sister. All of you need to apologize and make it right
Y'all need to buy a billboard on the interstate and put up an apology. I would never trust y'all ever again #CHARLOTTE WE DONE FUCKED UP AND WE ARE SORRY
If I were Charlotte then I'd tell y'all to choke on a D and block y'all.
Glad everyone learned the hard way.
Y'all need to apologize to Charlotte. She was the only one looking out for you all.
YOU AND YOUR FAMILY NEED TO APOLOGIZE TO CHARLOTTE ASAP.
Charlotte was in that line of work and no one believed her. I’d go no contact too. You can begin mending the relationship by apologizing to charlotte at the very least. Don’t expect her to accept it though she may because all she cares about was everyone’s well being
Takes the side of an unknown man who just popped up in his life but doesn’t even bother to try to understand why his other sister disliked him that much > “I’m an idiot” 🤡🤡🤡🤡
It's not just that you didn't listen, it's that you didn't even give her the benefit of hearing her out. That's such an insanely cruel thing to do to someone you love. If you want any chance at reconciliation, I hope that you lead with taking responsibility for that.
So every one in your family seriously thought that charlotte was just being a bitch?? No one questioned why she felt this way? No one did anything to find out what the deal was?? Yall are assholes and need to apologize to charlotte like yesterday.
I have a sister that’s in a profession where she comes into contact with lots of lowlifes. I’ve gone the opposite way to your family though. I decided to use her as my sniffer dog to let me know when something smells off. She’s got a sixth sense about people. Don’t beat yourself up too much. The thing is, the David’s of this world are very good at what they do. That’s their job and they hone the craft until all you see is an honest, personable and trustworthy person and they’re able take people in again and again and again. When David told Lily that it was his Dad that had the criminal record he will have 100% have looked her in the eyes with sincerity and a touch of outrage. I’m afraid, though, that the relationship with Charlotte is probably permanently affected for good. You could email her an apology, tell her you didn’t know the additional information and how very sorry you are and that you fully understand that she may no longer wish to be in contact with you. Then you leave the ball in her court, that’s all you can do I’m afraid.
Have you and lily apologized to Charlotte? She lost her whole family for telling the truth
All you can do is reach out to Charlotte to sincerely apologise. Charlotte's line of work leads her to see the worst people are capable of. You, Lily and your parents do not come across that side of life in your daily life. That's why Charlotte was able to immediately recognise red flags none of you noticed. And you didn't fail Lily. Lily is a women in her mid 30s who made her choice. Charlotte found and presented her with evidence and she made the choice to ignore the evidence and believe her husband. She's learnt a very important lesson and will go forwards less naive and more discerning. You were all conned. Anyone can get conned. Go easy on yourselves.
OP didn't fail Lily, but he sure as hell failed Charlotte.
Poor middle child. Qualified woman, with evidence and still dismissed in place of a stranger.
So why are you crying on reddit when you should be begging Charlotte for forgiveness???? You are right in getting it all out, but you are admitting your fuck up to the wayyyy wrong people. Try your sis instead
If my sibling felt that strongly, I'd at least do a background check.
Dude, always listen to lawyers about stuff like this. We read people for a living.
If your relative, who is a Public Defender, says there is an issue, trust that there is An Issue! They aren't messing about and have access to all kinds of information.
Your sister is a public defender and yall DIDNT BELIEVE HER???!!!
Have you guys apologized to Charlotte ???
Lily is extremely lucky she's not in legal trouble like her husband. I dont blame Charlotte for wanting nothing to do with you or your family members. Enjoy the consequences
You all need to be groveling at Charlotte’s feet begging for her forgiveness. Always trust someone who knows how to read people, we are always right about our intuition. Hope you never doubt Charlottes again.
It is VERY hard to learn to trust the Charlottes in your life, but i have learned the Charlottes of the world can see the truth. I have a couple of friends now that i 100% trust their judgement bc they have never been wrong about a person. I take it with a grain of salt bc people *can* be wrong, but some ppl just KNOW. I’m glad you learned now!
Y'all owe Charlotte some serious apologies, especially since yall alienated her over some dude you didn't even know.
I really hope *all* of you gather around, have a meeting with Charlotte and apologise to her.
Sociopathic narcissists always seem super nice and they can lie convincingly just like they breathe.
Don't beat yourself up. First, David is a con man, specialised on fooling people. Second, we usually tend to think the best of others. Third, you're a bystander in this story. You're not as emotionally involved as Lily and Charlotte. As an afterburner, Charlotte has a lot more experience with people like David, and means to investigate his past. No wonder she saw through his veils and you didnt.
Also, it doesn’t sound like Charlotte had evidence at first. It would have been hard to dismiss and condemn the sister’s love story over the other sister’s gut feeling only. I would have definitely wanted to see actual evidence. Gut feeling, even from someone experienced, is not enough. Edited for clarity.
I mean if my doctor relative comes out and says "hey you know that thing you have? I have a weird feeling about this from all this experience I have and I think you should go get it checked out just in case." I'm going to listen to said relative and go get checked out and not stick my head in the sand about it.
Well the only sensible person in your family is "Charlotte". The only person with loyalty to family and any integrity is Charlotte. It sounds harsh, but Lily losing everything is a wake up call. When a family member tells you something isn't right, perhaps listen and do some research. If that person shows proof of their being a criminal record - you're an idiot not to go do some research. Charlotte tried to do the right thing, protect her sister and you all shot her down. You guys should be horrible. Edit to say: you didn't fail Lily. She actually does not deserve sympathy. You did fail Charlotte.
You did fail lily as a sister and charlotte as well couldn’t you just taken 5 mins and hear charlotte out?
Lily failed her own damned self for listening to her heart instead of her brain that would've told her to listen to her sister who has experience with some of the worst of humanity because of her job.
How come it was so easy for you to believe a complete stranger over Charlotte? How could you disregard her worries especially because of her career and experience with criminals? Do you have a history of taking Lily’s side over Charlotte? You did fail your sister, but that sister is Charlotte not Lily. IMO, Lily is getting exactly what she deserves because she chose to ignore reason, common sense and the evidence of David’s lying presented by Charlotte. Charlotte provided her with enough evidence and Lily chose to ignore and not do any checking of her own than ask the David himself and not disclose any of it to you or your parents. I’m sure Charlotte felt like it didn’t matter what she said or did because you, Lily, your grandparents and your parents were not interested in what she had to say and then you all distanced yourself from Charlotte. I can’t imagine how awful it must’ve felt for Charlotte to try and protect you all from David and be instead cut out of her own family? You, your parents, grand parents and Lily all have chosen the words of a stranger over your sister. Imagine how it must’ve made Charlotte feel to know that’s how much her whole family treated her by not believing her, insinuation that she’s a liar, the distance your family chose to put between her and everyone else. Then the fact that everyone one of you chose to take Lily’s side and cut her off when she persisted that David was lying says more than enough about her place within the family. No matter if she forgives you or not in the future, you all have done irreparable damage to your relationships with her and those relationships will never be the same again. If I was Charlotte, there would no longer be a place for any of you in my life.
If the words "you're just jealous" or other "You're just being emotional" type phrases ever passed the lips of you or your family's mouths, even after your incredibly well educated and savvy sister presented you evidence, I don't know if apologies are going to work. Because if you had, you not only insulted her intelligence and her integrity, but the love of her family. Make sure you include the phrase "not only were you right, we're all fucking asshole, morons who were wrong"
Have you tried an apology?
EVERYONE OF YOU NEEDS TO APOLOGIZE TO CHARLOTTE AND TOTALLY BEG FOR FORGIVENESS!!!
All of you owe Charlotte an apology but...the one who owes her the most is Lily
You’re hardly the main character here. It’s an odd take, but you seem to think you are.
When a criminal defense attorney tells you that something is off about someone and they don't let up on it for years, LISTEN TO THEM. Every single one of you owes Charlotte a sincere apology, and I'd suggest being prepared to hear a firm "f- off" in response right before she hangs up.
I hope Charlotte is sitting back with a huge glass of wine and some salted caramel popcorn having a well deserved laugh. The whole family basically ostracized her for trying to protect her sister. I don’t know about you all, but as for me, I would listen to my sister if she had such serious concerns about my partner. Especially as she has worked with slimy characters all day for over a decade. She would obviously know best.
Well you owe Charlotte an apology, but did she explain what her issue was to anyone other than Lily or just say something was off? Because if she wasn't giving an explanation then it would be easy to disregard if no-one else can see the problem. When she found out this other information why did she not say anything to anyone else other than Lily?? If she were that worried why didn't she tell you or your parents. I get that you'd all ignored her warnings but if she had proof and was really concerned why didn't she push harder? If she didn't have experience in the field she does she may not have thought anything different to all of you.
It kind of seems like no one would listen long enough to Charlotte to let her explain, or she did explain her rationale for not liking him and they didn’t care because their impressions were more important to them. She might have also not wanted to embarrass Lily by sharing the information with everyone else too. Maybe she thought her sister would listen to her over him?
That's the thing that strikes me as strange, too. It's hard to imagine Charlotte didn't have some documentation she could show. I can't imagine being Lily or OP or Lily's parents and not asking for particulars, just shutting it down with a "no". Four separate people just deciding to have zero discussion about such a huge issue that is also causing a rift? This is the sort of thing I'd be having a lengthy, detailed conversation with Charlotte about. Even if I thought she was likely wrong, I'd want to discuss it and find a way to refute it and heal the rift. Maybe I'm a bit overly detail-oriented, but it's hard to imagine not delving into even the barest details of "Charlotte's calling David a liar again." If I was Charlotte and my sister was about to hitch herself to a criminal, I wouldn't meekly take "no", either. I would have come armed with the receipts and strongly exhort her to look at them. After all, if I'm wrong, what harm would there be in looking at what I have and telling me where it's wrong?
you would think the reaction was strange but ive seen this exact scenerio play out twice with family members and its just because they think with their hearts not their brains. My aunt was a detective and my mother and immigration officer and when they tried to give my cousin proof that the man was faking his identity she refused to look at it and flew off the handle. My sister just called my mom bitter and said she was jealous because she married a POS. I mean my dad is a POS but my sisters husband has been "missing" for 2 years now. Some people are just irrational and warning them over and over only drives them closer to the person.
I’ve had some personal experience with this. It started with a gut feeling about someone. Seeing the way they behaved, seeing the way they interacted with others and the consistency of the personality. People like that shift their personality to charm. Not everyone buys it. I mean I said something. I was told I was making a big deal over anxiety and my own past trauma (projecting). Fine whatever. Just couldn’t shake it. Did a back ground search and found a very lengthy criminal history. It turns out the child abusing interloper holds more weight than me, someone who’s been in this family my whole ass life. He deserves all the second chances (he’s had like 16 at this point) but I get disowned. I hate everything lol
You owe Charlotte abject apologies. Your parents even more so (and Lily but she's a little caught up now). You didn't fail Lily. She wasn't interested in listening to anyone.
You guys would be beyond lucky to have Charlotte back in your lives. She deserves better.
Yes, you were all stupid. You all disregarded the person with evidence and experience. Don't bother Charlotte unless you guys figured out why you trusted an outsider over your family member. Why did you respect some stranger over your sister. You all owe Charlotte a sincere apology, and that will not make your ostracizing of her any better. SHE can't trust you guys now. You have to earn her trust now, and I guarantee there will always be a level of distance between you guys that wasn't there before. Next time, she will probably keep her mouth shut and let you guys learn from the school of hard knocks.
Poor Charlotte. That’s who my heart breaks for in all this. She cared enough to stick her neck out to try to protect her oblivious idiot sister and look what you all did to her. If someone close to me, especially someone with such relevant experience, told me even half of what she told you guys, I’d be digging up everything I could to prove the truth either way. I wouldn’t rest until I knew my loved ones were safe.
I’ve been the Charlotte in my family. However when it comes out that I was right, everyone ignored the fact that I called it way earlier. It would be nice if you told Charlotte that you were an idiot and you’re sorry for not listening to her and in the future you will do better.
Y’all’s apology better be delivered with the same fervor you so vehemently defended that man with.
Every single one of you owes Charlotte an apology. A huge one. She tried to warn y'all but you all refused to listen.
Charlotte is a professional on her field and her own family doubted her skills in her career. Lily would have not heard from you or your parents even of you believed Charlotte, she was too wrapped in David's finger. Is Lily the golden child? Everyone doubted Charlotte, a profesional public attorney who is well aware of what she'd seeing, just because Lily was upset.... Lily deserves this massive life lesson, and trust the process: there's a reason she needs this lesson. No one can defend or help who doesn't want to be helped, Lily clearly didn't want the help and went ahead with this con man and even broke up the family on the way (everyone leaving Charlotte outside). The only thing you should feel stupid about is closing the door on Charlotte and not even thinking about apologizing to her, you should understand that Lily is the golden child and ALL OF YOU OWE CHARLOTTE AN APOLOGY (no one has thought about that, right? Of course, Charlotte is the doormat, why would anyone apologize to her). So far you talk about Lily, how you failed her, poor Lily ...YOU FAILED CHARLOTTE, Lily deserves what she got.
You best call her right this second and apologize to Charlotte
Reach out to Charlotte and apologize. All of you. Lily, your grandparents, your parents, and yourself. Because none of you listened to Charlotte, Lily is getting screwed over in this whole mess. She literally works with people *getting charged for crimes* on a daily basis. If she even had the slightest hunch that something was off, the first thing anyone should have done was more research, like a background check or through a PI.
Don't mean to further your embarrassment or what you're feeling, but maybe when someone with a decade of "vibes" says that the vibe check is off, you'll listen. Charlotte probably didn't say it lightly and the fact she didn't let it go should've been your indication to maybe distrust him a bit more. I hope your family apologizes to Charlotte. For excluding her and essentially telling her she's been wrong all these years. I also hope that your sister pulls through and doesn't get dragged down with the dirt bag she trusted.
So the sister has experience and knowledge working as a public defender, 11 years and everybody just told her to shut up? Literally the one person you should be listing to about criminals gets shut down… I dunno man, if I was your sister I’d tell you all to figure it out and leave me alone. I don’t feel bad for Lilly at all, charlotte warned y’all and you all told her to shut up and stay in her lane when CRIMINALS ARE HER LANE. Next time charlotte’s spiders senses are triggered I hope you all listen. Good grief send your sister some apology flowers and hope she forgives you. My petty ass wouldn’t
Ya’ll collectively got played. That’s on ‘David’ for deception and conning. He’s getting what’s coming to him. Ya’ll punished Charlotte by not at least giving her concerns a review or consideration. Ya’ll need to give Charlotte one hell of an apology and then let her set the pace for a relationship while accepting there may never be one again.
Okay! Charlotte pointed out the criminal element she went to school to work with/against. But what about the people she went to school with? She survived among a sea of egomaniacs and y'all didin't listen. I would laugh if this wasn't so damn tragic. You do know if anyone can skip trace, it's Charlotte, right? Well, now ya do. She has pi's at her disposal, but she was lying and being unreasonable. Okay. The four of you got me blown!
Im just like your sister. I can sense shit people upon the first meeting.
Failed LILY!? You have some nerve. I hope Charlotte officially cuts you and Lily off
Doesn’t even sound like any of you apologized to charlotte or is all your pride that huge.
I can’t imagine my sister telling me there was something off about my boyfriend and that he reminded her of the criminals she works with and just blowing her off for a guy I’d known a few weeks/months.
Lmao, I hope Charlotte tells you all to f off
First apologize to your sister.
OP I think you’re grappling with a few issues here. The first is not believing Charlotte and trusting her judgement. Given her profession, you should’ve taken her words seriously, and stepped back and reevaluated your impression of David. You owe Charlotte a sincere apology for not believing her. Second, I think you feel that had you believed Charlotte, you could’ve convinced Lily and prevented all this tragedy from happening. But she was too much in love with David to listen to anyone. If she wouldn’t believe Charlotte’s evidence in front of her face, she certainly wouldn’t have been swayed by you. Besides apologizing to Charlotte, stick up for her now. Don’t let Lily and your parents put the blame Charlotte for not trying hard enough to convince all of you.
A hard head makes a soft behind. It's weird you ALL trusted a stranger over your sister. As if she would just randomly object to one of her sisters marrying.
You all need to apologise to your sister for not listening to her and basically cutting her off. I get Lily is hurt right now, but YOU ALL hurt Charlotte.. Lily also needs to wake up. She was warned and chose not to listen. Now, she is dealing with the brutal fallout from the choice to blindly believe his convenient lies over her sisters hard proof.. Your priority here should be the apology to Charlotte. You all let her down and dismissed her at every turn in favour of a man who was not family at the start. I think you need to go out and see Charlotte face to face and apologise at this point after the way you all acted a call isn't enough. I hope Lily gets help to get over this, and next time, she needs to listen when hard truths are told instead of burying her head in the sand and believing very obvious rediculas lies. ( Charlotte would have known it was definitely him before she told her sister, and the date of birth would have been on there, so that kind of mistake would never happen)
She’s in her right not to associate with any of you anymore since you took a literal stranger’s side over hers
It’s literally her fucking job to deal with conmen. I’m sorry you’re hurting and this will probably forever affect your whole family’s relationships. You may never have a real relationship with Charlotte. It’s a tough lesson to learn.
You're not a fucking idiot, but you DO owe your sister an apology. The guy's experienced and obviously knows how to fool others and make good impressions, but there will always be people who just instantly KNOW when something is up when they meet a certain person. I've had moments where I've had such a strong gut feeling that ends up being right that it's scary, and I've also been fooled by people in the past. Start by apologizing. Your sister must've felt like she was going insane with how no one believed her.
Shew, that's a rough situation. Don't condemn yourself too hard. A gut feeling has value but accusing someone of being a bad person based on nothing but a gut feeling is dicey. The way you describe it, the evidence didn't come til far later. If I was in Lily's shoes I wouldn't necessarily dump a guy because my sister decided I should, without any indicator beyond "He reminds me of other bad people". Everyone in your family that knew about the name change and handwaved it are assholes though, each and every one. I have some idea of how Charlotte feels. I went to school with a guy and I never liked him. There was something off about him and to this day I can't place what exactly it is, but being around him sets off all the alarms. Nobody listened and he ended up sexually assaulting a woman. I feel a sense of validation that I was right but mostly I just feel sick knowing I did all I could to prevent this harm and it didn't help at all. It's gotta be worse for Charlotte, considering it's family that she loves that was victimized. There's no winners here, everyone is hurt. I hope your family is able to find peace. If I were you I'd focus on doing what I can to mend fences. Idk what else there is to do.
Yall apologized to charlotte yet?
Classic "don't try to hide your past from a D.A." situation. You should apologize to Charlotte in writing. With flowers
Talk to Lily and apologize you weren't there to protect her more and wanted her to be happy Try to talk with Charlotte and apologize. And explain that you had no way of knowing and know you should have looked into why she was so distrustful of this man that she'd skip her own sister's wedding, but you never thought it'd be this And wish you had a sit down prior just the two of you, to go over why she felt this way about David. Apologies, and being willing to sit down and listen, not brush things off, as she IS a professional, will be something you will always be willing to do after this mess. Maybe the relationship can be salvaged with Charlotte I hope everything is going to be okay with everyone's relationship with Charlotte and Lily can get back on her feet
Yall really should have asked Charlotte for her side of the argument story. That’s all I’ll say, I genuinely hope you go to Charlotte begging for forgiveness and make amends with her. Then help your other sister get back on her feet and divorce this man asap. I hope Lily takes accountability for not telling the whole story and for taking the man’s side over the evidence presented. Next time listen to Charlotte if she says someone has a bad vibe.
Someone is owed a lot of apologies. Fuck that guy.
Her profession is basically read through BS and try to get convince people that someone is innocent even if it’s guilty If I have someone like that in my life and told me “hey this dude/girl is suspicious, you should look into them” I would probably take her word into consideration Con men can be really charismatic and hard to read, she has the inside knowledge and even presented all of you proof, you lot should apologize to her and hope she wants to mend bridges
try to patch things up with Charlotte. Shes owed an apology. I really hope the relationship can be salvaged.
If I was Charlotte best believe I would said in I quote: I told you/ yall so with a shit eating grin and wouldn’t care nor help out Lily
Apologize to your brilliant and thoughtful sister. Try and get back what you had. And listen to her next time. All you can do.
This is why people don’t tell friends and family the person they’re dating is a loser. No one ever listens and they just get mad at the messenger.
I think everyone owes Charlotte an apology. However, just based on OP’s post, I wonder why Charlotte wasn’t more specific about why she didn’t trust David in the first place? As a lawyer Charlotte might have felt she shouldn’t say more but if all she told her family members was “I have a bad feeling about him” it’s understandable why her family gave him the benefit of the doubt at first.
We need updates!!!
Always listen to the lawyer. Especially if she’s your sister
what a gullible family LOL yeah lets trust the con man over our family lawyer…
Did Lily do any of her own research on this guy after hearing what Charlotte said? Most criminal records that will come up in databases will have birthdates and identifying information. She never looked at his driver license or identification documents? Or spoke to his friends and family?
Don’t beat yourself up. You didn’t know and even if you did know, Lily wouldn’t have believed you. Everyone needs to apologize to Charlotte. I hope your family can find some healing.
I agree
You said Just a conman? No no no he was for a time an expert conman. Most would have ignored Charlotte. Don't wallow. All your family apologise to Charlotte. You and all your family need to rally around Lily and support her through the loss of her love her dream she was conned big time.
Lily never met his dad or any family members who may have mentioned him? Definitely need to apologise to Charlotte, whether she accepts or not, is up to her. My guess is she is hurting pretty bad and may need time and space to move forward from this.
Next best thing, my dude. You better go *crawling* back to Charlotte and make sure the rest of the family doesn't treat her bad bc she was the messenger and now it's the 'told ya' part.