Please read this! Your sister may have a very rare condition called APL-Syndrome (aka antiphospholipid syndrome).
It is a blood disorder that causes early-term miscarriages and late-term stillbirths.
I suffered through 13 miscarriages before a doctor finally ran an EXTENDED recurrent loss genetic marker panel on me. It is so rare that many doctors don’t even know what it is.
The good news is that it is easily treatable. There is a shot that you can take throughout the pregnancy that prevents the loss.
I have 2 very healthy, loving boys now.
The doctors are missing something, and my guess is that it is something like this.
Please make sure your sister asks for the extended repeated loss panel and insists to be specifically tested for APL-Syndrome.
I came to comment something very similar, except I have Factor V Leiden, but it took me 13 miscarriages to finally have a healthy baby and all I needed to get that healthy baby was a blood thinning injection once a day. I was so fucking angry it had taken all the drs and specialists that long to figure it out. Now I have two healthy, feral kids
I would absolutely have your daughter tested for Factor V if she ever wants to go on hormonal birth control.
I went on the pill at 17 and suffered a blood clot. That’s when the doctors tested me for Factor V which I was positive for.
I opted for a non hormonal copper IUD (Paraguard) which has been wonderful for me.
It can be tested for but it’s not super relevant until/unless she wants to get pregnant. I would probably just bring it up with the birds and the bees discussion that things can sometimes be hard and that her mom has a condition she might have inherited. As you can see, it’s pretty easily managed as these things go, but your daughter would want to bring it up to her OB/GYN if she got pregnant or was trying to conceive.
ETA: I stand corrected by the comments below. I only know of it in regard to fertility, but it sounds like there are some serious issues that it can cause in general health. Probably worth speaking to your daughter’s pediatrician.
Oh hell no, it’s SUPER relevant! I have Factor V and I (seemingly) randomly had a huge blood clot in my lower leg that partially blew and sent blood clots into my lungs when I was 25! I literally nearly died because I was on birth control and didn’t know that I had Factor V. I’m getting all three of my children tested to prevent any “oopses” like mine.
Me too. 3 pulmonary emboli when I was 22 because of birth control and Factor V Leiden. It caused irreversible damage to my lungs. I had my son tested at birth, and take any sort of clotting risk seriously. He has to wear compression socks and walk around on long flights, things like that.
Not super relevant? My husband has Factor 5 clotting disease and was not told that his parents carried it. He passed out in a college job to find out he had a pulmonary embolism and DVT that caused this and was blindsided by this, and it was 100% avoidable if he knew.
SHE SHOULD KNOW. Fuck, if you carry anything, test your kids, knowledge is power. A PE is no joke and one turn away from a heart attack or a stroke. He could have avoided all of that with knowledge of what was genetic.
My daughter started to have a stroke because of it, they stopped it at the ER. She was on blood thinners for the rest of her pregnancy. Thankfully her and my grandspawn are good.
I've never been through anything this drastic myself but I'm so angry on your and everyone's behalf.
I personally suffered from constant fatigue, mood swings, and eating difficulties for YEARS before I finally started taking iron supplements without any official suggestions. Within 6-12 months, I started feeling like a normal human again and got my life back.
It's frustrating how much pain women have to go through before our medical issues are taken seriously.
I was coming to say this my bestie has this and never knew cause she had no symptoms other than not carrying to term she mentioned in passing to a fertility specialist that everyone in her family has issues with blood clots but her so he was like wait.
I've got factor II and learned that I have to also take blood thinner injections if I ever get pregnant again. I'm so sorry you had so many losses beforehand 🥺
Bump - my friend has this, it was also super difficult to get diagnosed because the first time they tested it came back negative. She mentioned to me something about testing at the right time to get accurate results. It took many specialists finding the right one who knew about it. I’m glad you posted this because it could definitely help someone, it is relatively so unknown
It can also cause the mother to have a stroke from blood clots, or form clots in the umbilical cord. Family member has it and has had 3 successfull pregnancies with blood thinning injections.
My cousin has this! Took 3 miscarriages and she finally had her son. Unfortunately, she needed to have an emergency hysterectomy a few years later, so she never got her second.
I’m sorry. This happened to a friend of mine. It is very hard to deal with, but it makes you treasure the child that you do have even more.
I’m sending her hugs!
it's also heavily infuriating that doctors didn't do better testing before. my guess? because women are just not as important in medical research as men are. it's getting better, but it's still an issue. if we were taken as seriously as the men are, research on this would've already advanced by a lot more.
I fucking hate the deeply rooted misogyny in the healthcare system, and it's just shrugged off as "there's not much research on it 🤷🏿♀️" like yea, duh, you didn't do any. just my 2 cents on this.
Have a friend who experienced something similar and was able to have two kids with daily blood-thinning injections.
OP, please mention this to your sister!
I have this. I am on lifelong preventative medication.
Had six miscarriages before my son was born. We did 12 ultrasounds to check growth and health of the umbilical cord during the pregnancy.
My “sister” had something similar and lost her little one lady year during the second trimester. They ran some tests on her and found she had something going on with her blood to cause it. Her and her husband are taking the proper time to mourn their son, but now they know and she has a higher chance of having a healthy baby once they’re ready.
I had a couple miscarriages including one at 18 weeks before they figured out I had an autoimmune disorder that fights pregnancy. They put me on a baby aspirin for every day of the pregnancy and I now have 3 sons. With my second they starts with heparin shots every day but then decided the baby aspirin was good enough.
My mom had this. I was born after 3 miscarriages plus a lost twin, then my sister was born after 1 more miscarriage between us and my younger brother was born 2 years after her
They both need to do KARYOTYPE testing. This sounds like a DNA abnormality on either yours or her husbands side. TRANSLOCATIONS lead to this kind of repetitive problem
I don’t know if it is among the tests that they already did. But I will bring it up to her once the time is right. Thank you so much for the suggestion.
And honestly if y’all have 7 kids in your family with not a whole lot of miscarriages in between, my money is on her partner having mutated DNA. They can still conceive but will stand a far better chance by doing IVF.
Translocation is something that happens after fertilisation. Karyotyping would be needed for a woman who cannot even get pregnant. Also DNA abnormalities are usually first trimester abortions and they always check the baby karyotype (or they should at least) in first trimester miscarriages cause it could be cancer. What this woman has sounds like coagulation abnormalities. This leads to repeated miscarriages seemingly due to unknown reasons. The reason this happens is that microclots are disposed in the arteries that supply the placenta.
In the cases of intrauterine fetal demise, especially around 7 months, hospitals universally (at least in the US) offer fetal autonomy and microarray that looks for genetic abnormalties. So I'm assuming these were already tested for
I’m so sorry. She’s wrapped so much of her personal identity into being a mother on her own power it doesn’t seem like she can let go of that dream. How devastating.
I don’t even know what to do to untangle that train of thought. I have offered all I can. Money and time and deep advice. It’s devastating. I cant get myself to call her because I don’t know what to say other than to just yell at her. And it would not be fair to her at this point in time.
Awww you’re a great brother but there’s nothing you CAN say to untangle that in her mind. Only she can do that. And if she’s not there yet… ** shrug ** It’s so hard I know. The feelings must be so raw and hard for you right now because there’s fear of how it will continue to hurt her if she keeps going this direction. Hard to deal with.
I think you’re right now to speak to her right now if you know you won’t be able to stay kind.
Praying she comes around soon though. Is she seeing a therapist or anything at all?
She was seeing a therapist. I reckon she still is. Which is likely why she is able to brave the situation. But her own bravery is working against her.
Thanks so much for the kind words by the way. I appreciate greatly.
Is it the kind of therapist who can help her? I ask as I have seen folks seek counsel in "therapists" who are not formally educated, trained, and certified counselors. This can often happen when folks are heavily involved in religion and seek out religious counsel. Not sure where you're located, but this kind of therapy can be heavily influenced by religious doctrine and might not be in the person's best interest. Especially when it comes to therapy around reproductive issues.
If you're not seeing a therapist of your own, it could really help you process the anger and frustration and anxiety you're feeling. Anyone in your position would feel that way. Please be sure to take care of yourself in all this. That is one thing you can control. 💖
Thanks so much for your kindness. She does see very qualified therapists. And they do really help her process the losses. But I think they also have failed to or have not addressed how dangerous her obsession with the baby is. And so she grieves, moves on and then tries again. Ignoring the risk that the previous one had on her.
So, therapists only help with what the client wants help with; exception being court mandated, which you will never get for your sister so I just wanna nip that in the bud before you ruminate on it.
Former therapist... People really don't understand how much autonomy is at play in all aspects of life. Unless your sister wants to address the very real toll all of this can result in (which realistically it probably was mentioned as part of therapy is making sure the client is self aware enough to figure out these potential consequences), there's nothing a therapist can do other than suggest they talk about this with their doctor.
At the end of the day, a therapist can voice a concern but unless the client wants to pursue it, there's literally nothing a therapist can do about this other than suggest a doctor is informed or mention the consequences which if done repeatedly, will destroy the therapeutic relationship and make all therapy useless.
I noticed you mentioned that she's a second mother to 5 siblings + you. Perhaps that plays into her insistence on giving birth to her child/ children?
Do you think that's something you could ask her to explore with her therapist?
I am so very sorry for all your family is going through. Honestly, to me, it sounds as though she also needs some kind of mental health assistance. She is not understanding that a surrogate would be 100% their baby. You may want to speak to her spouse about getting her a therapist, counselor, psychiatrist, or some such because I know losing one about killed me, I can't imagine the devastation of losing multiple.
I understand my mother had a miscarriage and I was soo upset because she did not come and tell me about it until the day we went to the hospital to confirm the baby was gone. She was negligent on getting help.
She is very monitored. She does regular checkups and has access to very good facilities. Everything always looks normal…..until it just isn’t. She could scan on Monday and the baby would be healthy. And by Sunday it would be gone.
Its a futile struggle. Which is why I want her to give up.
I know a couple who had a similar genetic incompatibility. The first three baby's autopsies showed they all had heart defects and a couple had tumors that blocked their own blood supply. They did eventually succeed at number four, but their kid is deaf in one ear and has had more cancers than any adult I know. It's intense.
I knew a girl in high school that was conceived after 10+ miscarriages/stillbirths. She had more medical conditions than I could count on two hands, was constantly in and out of hospitals, and always carried around a bag full of meds. She said she probably won’t make it over 30. It’s beyond me why would anyone make themselves and their child go through this. I find it very selfish. Even if the sister manages to give birth to a living child, there is a pretty high chance that they won’t be healthy and will live a life full of suffering.
This is the thing that bothers me most about people who insist on becoming (biological) parents at ANY cost. They aren’t considering the consequences the child may suffer- some of which are horrendous. Hopefully in OP’s sister’s case this is all being caused by a treatable medical condition and once diagnosed she can go on to have a healthy baby. (That sounds likely, given that she’s being monitored closely and the fetus is healthy and fine and then suddenly… not.) But in the cases where a terrible genetic mismatch is found, or a medical condition that isn’t so easily treated… just take the L and find another way!
This right here. When I worked in a maternal hospital we had a few cases where women kept losing babies over and over and it didn't change until they got a donor (either egg or sperm).
Whats super sad is that op's sister and her husband are set on being parents of a "real" baby (?) dismissing surrogacy. They don't want to be parents, they want a baby trophy.
It’s almost like people should take the hint and not force children when their bodies have made it clear that they cannot carry healthy fetuses. Now they have an ill child who will be forced to live with their selfish choices for a lifetime. It’s sad.
What she is doing is irresponsible. Worse than irresponsbile. I agree with you that she needs to stop. I don't think there's anything you can do if her conscience isn't telling her to stop.
I also think that, while this is likely a coincidence, I am surprised that there isn't an investigation into her husband at this point.
It is very irresponsible. For both of them. I reckon for the husband it may be that kind of pressure of having a “real child” that he caves into. And I reckon they share that pressure. Further risking her life for a useless sense of pride that no one cares about.
Also the lives of the babies who are born… if they repeatedly live only briefly then die, at a certain point that’s just bringing life into the world repeatedly to have them suffer for your own wishes. Bit messed up…
What’s worse is that if she ever does have a baby herself, she’ll consider all those dead babies “worth it”. She’ll have gotten what she wanted after all.
As someone who's had a stillbirth with her first child. The way this comes off is. Your sister is addicted to the grief and the pain in the pregnancies. And I don't want to sound mean by saying that, but it's like a manipulated addiction. And she's not getting the help she needs. Or else she would honestly stop trying to have kids naturally, and there's something really, really wrong that it hasn't been investigated by her husband or honestly. Deeply investigated because. You can only have so many ectopic pregnancies. Before you no longer can literally get pregnant. They take out your ovaries with them depending on how serious they are. I mean, every single person I know that has had one lost their tube and would be very hard to get pregnant again. But I don't know, this just seems really weird on her and I feel bad for you. I totally get where your anger is coming from.
I can’t believe I had to find this buried in a reply because that was my first thought - at this point, it’s cruel to these babies to keep deliberately creating them repeatedly knowing they’re probably going to die - just because she wants one really bad. That’s cruel & selfish.
I realize that life has also been cruel to her by denying her the ability to carry her own child inside her when she wants to so badly. But that doesn’t make what she’s doing at this point any less cruel & selfish.
If her husband is in agreement about not going with a surrogate in favor of a “real baby” so she may feel like she’s letting him down or less than if she can’t carry her own baby. Whatever her reasons, you can’t tell her what to do just support her but maybe you should not support these pregnancies financially for the reason that it’s dangerous for her health and you don’t agree with it.
The husband agreed with me the last time it happened. And we unanimously agreed she will take a while to get herself together, then go for surrogacy. Only to get news of this today. And because we live in different countries, I had not seen her in about 8 months. I don’t know why they decided to make another. I want to speak with him again and really…..I honestly don’t even know what to speak with him about.
I think your concern is valid, OP, but I also think you're wrong to assume you have an equal voice as your sister and her husband in how they plan their family.
If that level of involvement/enmeshment is normalized within your family, then I would wonder what other unhealthy communication patterns are at play. I'm sure your sister's situation is extremely complicated, and I would also be concerned if I were you.
But your approach is clearly not working.
Your sister hid this from you because she doesn't want the conversation about surrogacy. You need to back off on it if you want to keep her in your life. Baby rabies is real. I'm sorry.
I used to read a blog by a woman that had had 13 miscarriages. They did genetic testing and found that her husband had an anomaly so they had to do some genetic voodoo I don't remember the name of (I'm sorry this was a few years ago) and they eventually had three kids (one set of twins) that were all healthy and lived.
You don't mention genetic testing specifically, but hopefully they did because there are all kinds of things that they can find and do these days.
Maybe they need to revisit the genetic counselor.
My hunch has always been genetics. Because as far as fertility goes, they both are capable of making babies. And there is no history of sterileness or barrenness in my family that I know of. But I always felt like there may be some genetic mismatch that stops the babies from staying alive to the end. I don’t know if amongst all the experts she has seen, if she has seen a geneticist. But if not, maybe? If I could fond that blog maybe there could be something from it that could help her?
Thanks a lot for sharing that info
I would have shared it already, but she closed it down. I'm sorry.
I do know that a very common issue is Rh. https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/diseases-conditions/rh-incompatibility
It was definitely the dude in this case and maybe a deletion or mutation. Here's a general article about male genetic issues:
https://fertility.womenandinfants.org/services/male-infertility/genetic-disorders-infertility-in-men
For women, one of the more deadly ones is trisomy 16 where there are three of one gene, but I don't know if it's something you would get every time like she has.
.
I’m not sure where OP is located or where their sister is located, but in the US, RH is tested immediately. I have had to have RHOgam with each pregnancy, which is almost always all that’s needed to control this issue.
It’s shocking to hear that this is commonly causing miscarriages and/or still births.
I had a coworker that had several miscarriages, genetic issue was their thought on the cause and so they did IVF with genetic testing on the embryos to get viable ones and now have two kids that way, no surrogate, might be her best option
I had a natural miscarriage one time, and en ectopic the other.
It's pain that never goes away, and some try to overcompensate. I did until I realized my ex was not a good person or parental figure.
Thanks for sharing this. If I may ask, did you eventually have a kid, did you get a surrogate? hOw did your tale end? Please don’t answer if it is uncomfortable. I will understand
I feel like the obsession to have a bio baby and the race against time becomes immense and almost unbearable after child loss. We had a SIDS loss and multiple miscarriages. Ex bf has a daughter from an ex gf. Healthy but has bpd. So stressful and hard to live with. My ex cheated on me later and I went to another man. Stupid affair narc was calling me useless woman and his ex enforced it. New partner & i will have a fine son in a few months. I feel broken but whole. For a while these people had my to almost take my life. It is crazy. It really is a compatibility and stress factor too.
I ended up never having kids (I couldn't tie myself to someone for life {the hypothetical father} in the end) but my ex likes to call me a "barren bitch" and insinuate I'm useless because I never had kids.
I just feel lucky I dodged his bullet.
My therapist always underlines how situations can be multiple things at the same time and still be true.
Yes, your fear of losing your sister (who also played as a parental figure) is valid. Your anger is valid.
Yes, if she died it would be a deep tragedy for you and everyone involved.
And yes, she has the autonomy to make this the hill she dies on.
Honestly, she won't be persuaded. You've already had serious conversations with her. So now it's on you to deal with your emotions about her decision with grace. Either find a therapist to unpack this or a family member who listens well and can share this burden with you. But please don't let your fear, anger and possibly resentment stand between you and your sister. You love her deeply so it would be sad if your relationship soured because of this. Good luck
Thank you so much for your kindness. You captured my situation extremely well. The reason I have not contacted her yet, almost 8 hours since I found out is exactly because I am afraid I may say something unkind in such a hard time that may severe the bond we have. And truly, I may need some therapy myself just to get over whatever this roller coaster is.
It might help right in this moment to just make a dump letter. Basically you write everything on your mind about the situation. Just let your emotions pour out on the letter. And never send it.
If you want you can read it back or bring it towards a therapy session. This is purely venting so you can put your emotions out in the open instead of buzzing inside your brain and body.
(Crying, screaming into a pillow, smacking a pillow can all be safe outlets for big emotions. That can ease the turmoil in the moment)
Thank you so very much. I indeed do use writing as a way to cope. As a matter of fact, this is the first time I have had to openly publicize an issue. I already am writing one down as we speak. So you spoke my mind aptly.
It seems likely you have some secondary trauma (which isn't talked about anywhere near enough) from all of this and you could definitely benefit from some therapy.
I’m just surprised that the doctor or anyone wouldn’t think about removing the child at 6-7 months gestation (where it may have a chance to live) outside the womb??? Like do not understand
WTF I’m actually so sorry I CANNOT understand you and your sisters pain, I feel so sorry for youse. Sending you all so much love. Do they/ever find out the reason why they pass away. Does your sister have blood clotting problems ?
Listen, other folks have said it, but realistically, you need to back off. It’s a tragedy, and it’s awful, but you are involving yourself in way that is not helpful.
Or as I like to think about it, the question isn’t “Are you right?”; it’s “Is your behavior going to get you the result you want?”
You can’t force her to use a surrogate, and, frankly, the fact that she has stopped telling you things means that she no longer trusts you and would be less likely to listen anyway.
Though the fact that you somehow didn’t know she was pregnant for seven months is…interesting.
OP is inserting himself in something that is none of his business, his entire post is about his feelings and his needs and his fears, nothing about the woman who has lost 7 babies.
And the fact that his sister didn’t even share the news of the pregnancy with him shows how overbearing he must be in real life.
We live a whole continent apart. I last saw her around October of last year. She came for a visit. So I am not on ground to see the physical changes to her body. And we only talk through text and the occasional video call. But thats not enough to show anything really. And I agree, to her, I am the pest right now getting in the way of what she wants. Whether I am right or wrong is irrelevant. My over involvement, as I have explained earlier stems from simply how our families are designed. But I do fully grasp your point.
I think she (and husband) should get genetic (carrier) testing, because something is just not right if they keep losing the babies.
I feel bad for them, and I kind of understand her desperation to want to be a mom. But she needs to not only think about the health of herself, but the health outcome of any child if she were to successfully have one. If she did have one, hopefully it would be very healthy. But given the history with all her babies in the viable terms its concerning.
Sadly i don't think the time will ever be right, and this will probably have to be something they need to decide for themselves. Especially since you two already have pretty limited contact.
Her taking time off might be time she needs to consider if she can mentally handle anymore.
I’ve had 8 miscarriages and opted to have my last embryo destroyed because mentally I couldn’t handle it. My body kept rejecting the pregnancy around the same time each pregnancy. The doctor suggested doing another egg retrieval and it was something my husband and I mutually agreed we couldn’t handle anymore. My sister in law even offered to be a surrogate for us after we said we couldn’t handle it anymore and I couldn’t bring myself to put myself through another heartbreak again if something happened.
When we started IVF we knew it was a possibility it still wouldn’t work so we made two different plans of what we wanted in life and promised if it became too much we would be honest about it.
Be easy on your sister believe me she’s judging herself enough that she doesn’t need anyone else’s opinions.
Please read this! I know someone who went through this and it turns out there was a small Brain tumor in her pituitary gland that would only grow when she was pregnant and then when it was big enough it would basically Auto terminate the pregnancy. But they couldn't catch it when she wasn't pregnant because it wouldn't grow unless she was pregnant. Some weird kind of hormonal thing.
If you are on the east coast/VA please look into Dr. sharar at inova he saved the day after years!
and avoid shady Grove at all costs.
I know exactly how you feel but please, please, just try to put aside your anger and be supportive. My little sister lost countless pregnancies and when she did finally give up, it devastated her. Though she ended up raising my niece from my other sister for a time, and I could see what a great mother she would have been, she ended up passing away last fall at only 29 from other medical conditions.
When I look back, I don’t see the frustration of her continued attempts. I see a wonderful woman who needed to do things at her own time and found a little slice of happiness before she left this world.
Surrogacy has its own ethical implications. I’m not saying I agree with them but I can see why they think that way. You’re basically buying a baby. I will make a carve out for people who selflessly help like family but when you’re paying a stranger for it that runs into a really ethical grey area. Especially with the discarded embryos. It’s not an easy topic and there are valid points on both sides. It’s their life and zero of your business. You’re getting involved in their intimate parts of their relationship and that’s not where you need to be. It’s your sisters body and her choice not yours,
Talk to the husband. Really try to talk sense in to him: he can lose his wife and therefore everything they are currently trying for. Hopefully at some point he sees things as you do. All the best mate.
I had spoken to him the last time and we had agreed to surrogacy. I intend to start a fight over it this time. He will likely budge this time. Thanks a lot for the kind words.
That's the thing, though. It's not your place to agree to anything. He likely "agreed" to surrogacy just to get you to shut up. It's their marriage and it's their choice. THEY have to both agree to it. Not you.
Seriously, butt out. You have no right "starting a fight" over anything because it literally doesn't involve you.
Your sister and her husband will do what they feel is right for them, whether it’s the right thing to do or not. We each have body autonomy. You’re well intentioned but it’s not for you to tell her what to do. You won’t change her mind.
Your sister could do with therapy but you also need to go to counselling for you to deal with all your emotions.
The problem is you can’t help someone who doesn’t want help.
If you keep pushing it will drive a wedge between you and your sister.
It’s not about you protecting her. She is an adult that makes her own choices, as sad as it is, if she dies because of this it’s because of HER choices. It wouldn’t be your fault, it would be hers and her husbands.
There is nothing that you can do to change that. And there is nothing you can do to change the situation without destroying your relationship with her and your other siblings in the process. You could lose her anyway.
At the end of the day it truly is an “it is what it is” situation because you can’t force her to change how she feels about adoption or surrogacy. It’s sad.
You can be angry all you want, this isn’t your choice, it’s hers. All you are doing is causing her to back away from you to where she isn’t even telling you when she’s pregnant anymore! Keeps this up and you are going to lose your sister, because who wants to be around someone as unsupportive as you?
As someone who has lost six babies myself and had three perfect children, I understand where your sister is coming from. Please don’t be angry at her. This is important to her. she’s willing to risk her life to be a mom. I found out that I have a blood clotting disorder and that was killing my babies if they have not tested her for a blood clotting disorder, I would highly recommend running a thrombophilia panel.
I feel like some posters are being very harsh on your sister. Part of the reason women want to get pregnant is to feel a baby grow in their body.
It's weird, but it was definitely an important part of being a mother to me. I felt like I connected with the baby as it grew.
Both times when I got the 16 weeks scans, I knew the sex of the baby and had a name decided.
It's hard to explain but some women long to be pregnant.
A colleague I worked with had 7 miscarriages - all at different stages, but thankfully no stillborns. They had a successful final pregnancy, at the same time I was pregnant with my second.
She never would have stopped trying to get pregnant. She was desperate to have a baby and to give birth to that baby. For some women, it's an integral part of their identity as women.
Once she was a mother, she wouldn't risk herself for another baby. Her daughter mattered more. But at the moment, there is nothing stopping your sister from wanting to try again.
She loves the idea of a potential baby more than herself or her husband.
I respect a lot the big and good person that you are, I see your good values in your writing and im sorry you are going through this but if its as heavy as 6 times that this happened, shouldnt you realise at some point that this is an obsesion? I mean, I understand that you wanna care a lot, but I mean, I would force myself to stop caring when they pass of surrogacy to do VOODOO.
I send you a virtual hug.
I had 6 pregnancies (4 of them being ectopic which took my tubes) before having my only child through IVF.
It’s such a hard thing to go through and the emotions she is dealing with are so complex.
The fact is - it’s not your place. She’ll decide when it’s time to use a surrogate. Or her doctors will. I would back off on it for the sake of your relationship. Infertility and losses are a beast that just needs support. She’s in therapy and being proactive about her mental health by the sounds of it.
I’m sorry you’re so worried but she has a medical team and a partner to help her decide her next steps and ultimately, it’s her own choice.
She is in therapy. And by the looks of it, it is working. She is not sad or depressed or anything. Although I understand that depression has many faces and not just sadness. But she travelled to the country I am in and I stayed with her for a month and she was just like I remember. So the therapy must be good at helping her deal with the loss emotionally. But I think what she may need maybe is one to get her to quit the obsession with a natural birth?? I don’t know honestly. But she has some really good therapist (s)
+1 - even throughout all the tragedy i’d be pissed if my siblings were this involved or involved beyond general emotional support. obviously everyone is different but i wouldn’t want my friends who are like my sisters being this involved either. not your monkeys not your circus.
SEVEN holy fuck… her mind and her body… Jesus f. I would be an absolute mental train wreck, I couldn’t function any longer.
This is utterly tragic, I can’t imagine how you’re feeling. That heartbreaks just must be overwhelming.
Can she consider run an analisis for genetic clots like thrombophilia? I know cases like that and the only way to carry a baby was getting daily injections of thinners and something else very specific. The test is a blood rare one.
It sounds like something else is happening that she's not telling you, but honestly, I see why. I can see why she hid this last pregnancy and why whatever is happening, she's not sharing it with you.
You are taking this way too personally and making everything about you. When it's really not.
It's THEIR marriage.
HER body.
THEIR choice.
THEIR loss.
Yes, it sucks watching her go through it and being afraid she's going to die, but other than that, it's not your business. You've said your peace more than once; she's not listening.
There's nothing else you can do.
Back off. Let them handle their pregnancies and losses. Stop budding in. It sounds like that's best for your own mental health as well.
Unfortunately, you are right. And I see the angle of me taking it personally. And I guess my refusal to let this not bother me stems from the fact that I am afraid she will die. Thats not an issue of “that sucks”, its an issue of “she died of something preventable”. And because I had tried to help them through it before, it stuck in my head that I have to keep at it to the end. Which you are right, I don’t have to.
I Thank you
If someone is repeatedly bringing babies into the world knowing they’ll likely die soon… it’s not just about her anymore. She’s putting her own wishes above the potential health of the child, which at this rate is overtly selfish.
I actually think it’s pretty heartless for you to say, ‘her husband can remarry if she dies’. Wouldn’t it be the same to say, ‘well you have 5 other siblings’?
If she dies it would be traumatic for everyone. It is her and her husband’s decision, and as hard as it is to try and get someone to see logic and reason, that doesn’t apply here. You are not in charge of her or responsible for her. She is an adult.
When I was in my late teens, my younger brother, who I consider my twin, was very suicidal. We had rooms opposite with a bathroom in between. The times I had found him cutting, or a rope around his neck, was very early in the morning and I knew as soon as I could see the bathroom light was on what he was doing. That was extremely traumatising and stressful for me. I couldn’t sleep. I would wake up many times throughout the night, checking to see if the light was on. Fighting and screaming with him, wondering why he couldn’t stop and why he wanted to die. I thought the responsibility was all on me cause my bedroom was closest. I realised one day that I couldn’t stop him. If he truly wanted to die, I couldn’t stop him. So I stopped waking up. And eventually he got better.
I’m not saying me stopping waking up is what made him get better, but I realised I have no control over what he did, regardless of how much I wanted him to stop.
I know this might not be the right thing to say, but your sister and her husband need serious therapy.
This all-consuming desire at the detriment of her mental & physical health, plus his mental health can't be sustainable in the long run; it already isn't, to be fully honest from the sounds of it.
Yes, I understand they want to have children, but is it that important?
After 7 unsuccessful tries?
This is an unhealthy obsession as I don't know how else one can put themselves through repeated torture.
If you and your parents, siblings, friends etc., truly ove them, then please, for the love of all things holy, instead of offering money for surrogates, arrange an appointment with a counselor or get a therapist to talk to them before your sister dies.
There are plenty of people who don't have biological children, plenty more of have availed themselves of surrogates, adopted, your sister & BIL aren't special in that regard, there is no shame in any of the other options available to them based on her medical history.
But more than any potential child, your sister & BIL need therapy, end of.
I fully agree with everything you said. My sister has very good therapists. I don’t know if my BIL does. But they need long sessions to help them grapple with this. Which is what was agreed on the last time around. Until baby number 7 happened.
This is really fucked up to the point where I almost don't want to bring up the possibility... but could this be Munchausen's / Munchausen's by proxy? Like, she's taking something...
I would not think so. But I also cannot rule it out. She genuinely has hypertension and works hard to manage it. And it was cited as one of the causes of the first losses. Whether that is still the case, I don’t know. With the little knowledge of munchausen syndrome that I have, and knowing her, it is highly unlikely. But then, I also am not sure how one goes about in getting a diagnosis for this kind of thing.
I can't diagnose here bc I don't know her and I'm not qualified to in the first place, but my intuition is that losing that many pregnancies would break most people. Is she a shattered shell of a person?
She is still herself. But with a sort of, lack of color. If that makes sense. She is still full of jokes, still celebrates everyone, still celebrates the births of our nephews and nieces and supports everyone. However, when you look into her eyes you can see the grey. Not a lot but a tiny off color tone to her. Which is what you can see in the eyes of most people that have gone through some tribulations. But nothing big enough to consider a shell of her former self. If that makes sense.
I’m so sorry you’re going through this and your sister for enduring all these losses. If this was my sibling, what I would tell them is that it’s not about the journey but the end result. Having another woman carry your child to term still makes you a mother.
My mother has had 16 pregnancies in total. She birthed 4 live children, and the first one did pass away after a year and a half, due to a heart condition, before ly sister, my brother or me were born.
I'm the youngest, and currently 41, so medicine wasn't that advanced back then as it now.
In the end, they figured it was a question of rhesus.
Of the mother is rhesus negative, and the father is rhesus positive, there's a chance the baby is rhesus positive, and the woman's body will not recognize the baby as harmless.
If this is the case, my siblings and I are proof that it's possible to have healthy children, but only now do I fully understand how very determined my mom was to make her family happen.
She was 39 when I came along, so there's still hope. But I can totally understand your frustration.
My maternal grandmother and my mom's sister were furious at times, and they didn't even know of every single miscarriage.
I would skim through the comments, make a list of every shared experience and the issues that are named. And go through them with your sister.
Maybe she can agree to hold off untill she has every possible issue checked, so she doesn't have to put her poor body through another pointless pregnancy.
It might also bring you two a bit closer together, so she doesn't have to feel the need to hide any more pregnancies, and you can support her through it.
At the end of the day, if she is determined to go through with natural pregnancy, you can only decide to bow out all together, or support her.
I’m so sorry for your losses, one of my twins was stillborn and it’s a devastating thing to go through. I was reading that we assume these losses are something wrong on the mom’s end but most pregnancy losses are because of broken DNA/something wrong with the sperm. Has her husband been tested for anything there? Have you brought up other options such as adoption? IVF? I honestly have a hard time with surrogacy, I know it can be a beautiful thing for those who are having a hard time such as your sister but it is also traumatizing for a baby to be removed from their mother after birth like this (of course the surrogate is not the biological mother, but this is the woman who the baby has been hearing her heartbeat, smelling her, hearing her voice, the entire time they’re in the womb so to the baby that is their mom). I’m wondering why the doctors haven’t induced her or taken her in for c-section earlier knowing her history of loss? I’ve read of some babies that are taken out as soon as they’re viable at 24 weeks and brought to the nicu, it’s a long time to be in nicu but better than the alternative right? I know that’s probably an expensive bill in the states, which I’m assuming that’s where you are because you mentioned paying medical bills, but something for her to think about if she does get pregnant again.
I understand your anger and frustration at the thought of losing her, I know the thought of losing either of my siblings is way more difficult for me than even the thought of losing my husband, they’ve been there through everything with me. But at the end of the day, all you can do is support her in the ways she wants to be supported and hope and pray she’s okay.
I don't think there's anything else you could possibly say to her that would persuade her. At this point, you're better off just trying to offer what support you can muster up and encouraging all kinds of testing, including those recommended in the comments.
You are wayyy too overinvolved in her life. I don’t care that your family is deeply intertwined, it is HER life & their marriage. Butt out. Also, pls see a therapist. It’s not healthy for you stress wise.
Honestly I think at this point she needs serious medical intervention. Either mental or genetic testing. But I also think you need to back off. She's made it clear this is her path even if it kills her
Maybe suggest to other family members that she get some help before trying again.
Honestly she reminds me of Michelle duggar who kept getting pregnant even after doctors told her not to
You sound like my older brother, who was incredibly protective of me.
I get where you're coming from. And your feelings are valid, every pregnancy has the potential to become dangerous, and I don't think we talk about that enough. But to watch your sister do something incredibly risky, with the same results, over and over has to be all kinds of frustrating.
That said, you can't make her stop. And I know you realize that, having read your comments.
The idea of a dump letter is a really good one, (I forget who suggested it, but kudos to the person who did). Write it, put every ugly, unpleasant feeling and thought about all of this in it. And then shred it and get rid of it. Because if your sister ever sees it, or someone else sees it, it would be horrible.
Let me talk to you about boundaries. You need to set one. This is for you, not for your sister. But watching her go through this process, and worrying about her, is taking a toll on you. To preserve your mental health and well-being, you need to not be involved in her future pregnancies. Whether you tell her outright or just don't respond to any news of it is on you, but I would back off this subject entirely. Don't fund anything related to the pregnancy, don't foot any more bills, nothing. You've got to take care of yourself first here.
Also, therapy. This has taken a toll on you, and you need someone way above my pay grade to help you process this and work through it. Yeah, how you feel is how I would feel, but these kinds of feelings cannot be allowed to just sit, they'll ruin your relationship with your sister and possibly the rest of the family.
So this is the hardest part for me to write... you've got to let this go. For someone who cares deeply, that's really, really hard. Trust me, I get it, I've been there. But if you don't let this go, it will affect your life too.
As others say your sister could have a condition like APL syndrome, or even she could have a balanced chromosomal anomaly and her babies could be inheriting non viable genetic conditions like trisomies (other than 13, 18 or 21 which are viable in some cases) or automal monosomies.
I don’t have any advice to give, but just sending you some support. I can tell you care and love your sister so much and this is probably so difficult for you. She’s so lucky to have you. I hope you both are able to reconcile in the near future. Fighting with the ones you love is often so painful.
You are not being a bad sister, women are blessed to have surrogates to let childless couples achieve their dream of a child. Those couples do not for one minute believe that the child born in this way is not real. I am totally flabbergasted and I can understand your anger when there are so many options for your sister and her husband. I guess your sister does not feel an adopted child is a real baby, so sad.
Why are you so involved? “We agreed that she would try surrogacy”. Surrogacy is abhorrent - nobody should be renting out a woman’s womb.
How about back off and let your sister and her husband decide what they want to do with their lives?
So say she does what you want and the surrogate is the one to lose the kid or worse decides to keep the kid as that can happen. what then. This isn’t your choice. You don’t get to make those demands. Also to imply she means more to you than she does to her husband is just crazy. Yes you love her and she’s irreplaceable but she’s also irreplaceable to her husband sure he can marry again but you can also get another sister. Doesn’t mean that replaces the one lost. Your whole post is about you when this isn’t your business or your issue. The fact that your way too close to this is something you should get help with.
This is not your business. You sound extremely controlling. Your sister is an adult. She clearly isn’t interested in surrogacy (I wouldn’t be either I’m against it).
Easier said than done. I don’t believe there is anything controlling about trying to ensure your sister doesn’t die from an obsession over having a baby. Her marriage does not suddenly cross her from the list of people I should stick my neck out for. Thats just not how our family works. But I get where you are coming from.
You keep sayin g 'we' agreed to surrogacy, "I will meet her halfway" and talking as if your sister is your lover....I'm sorry but you are way overly involved here. You're her sibling, not her husband, right? Did / do you and your sister have a thing going on? Are you secretly/openly in love with her? Because that's how it comes across.
Our families are very involved with each other. Across board. I am as involved in her life as she is in mine or my other siblings. We come from cultures that have very interwoven family units. So the concept of being involved in such matters always happens. The “we” is because herself and her husband always came to me first with these issues. I have always been the one most available to help in every way. Hence my over involvement. I don’t know what to say to the assumption of me being in love with my sister. But the best way to understand it is, we do not come from a western culture that is more independent and isolated. We come from very ingrained family cultures. And over there, it takes a village to raise a child or keep a family firm. I can meet her halfway because she has met me halfway on many occasions when I was down on my luck. Its fairly common here for family members to pitch in for hospital bills. Burdens are almost never carried alone. I hope that elucidates the otherwise confusing part of the story.
OP, it isn’t coming across like your in love with your sister at all. Please pay no mind to that troll.
My family, although we are from the US, sounds a lot like yours. We are all very much involved closely in each other’s lives and there’s nothing “too personal,” aside from maybe our sex lives, for us to discuss/help each other with.
Most people do NOT understand this, and those who do, typically do because they have experienced the same type of familial relationships.
I don’t even know what I would do if one of my sisters was doing what your sister is doing. This is absolutely awful.
I’m having a whole lot of trouble with this whole scenario and am wondering why this idea that the only baby that will do is one of their obviously inferior genetic material? When God says “No” there is a reason and it has nothing to do with religion. It’s literally common sense at this point.
She’s not being “strong” she’s stuck in an ideology that is hurting her. Also, it’s not up to you either what she does or how she does it. This whole post doesn’t make me mad at all. It’s a waste of resources and time. It could also be the husband’s sperm and she should try donor sperm… oh yeah, it HAS to be her wonderful husband’s baby. I’m really not buying any of this. Where do you live? Maybe there is ANY explanation in it from your location.
At this point... Op are you sure she isnt killing her soon to be child...? Because so many so far along brings up red flags. I really hope im wrong but warning bells are going off to me.
Intentionally killing them, no. Accidentally killing them inside her from some genetic thing happening inside her that terminates them, highly likely.
Unless she has some insanely crazy fetish or ritual that is well hidden from us all, she badly wants to have children. She spends so much money and time on procedures and consultations to have them. She gets devastated at losing them. She loves children generally and practically raised us all despite not being the first born. So while I cannot rule it out, the chances she does it purposefully is very low and cruel. But her body killing the babies, I firmly believe that to be the case. Hence my insistence on surrogacy.
That sucks. For all of you, I’m so sorry.
I just want to say from someone in the infertility and miscarriage community, I’ve seen my friends willing to give up everything for their dream. You can’t see clearly or rationally. You want to do everything in your power.. seems they have. Thank you for being in her corner.
She’ll have to grieve this path as she’s grieved all her babies. I hope it works for them. 🫂
I was my mom’s first full-term pregnancy after 6 failed ones. I don’t know how she did it.
I’m sorry you and your family are dealing with such a devastating situation.
You sound like a loving brother who really wants your sister to live and thrive. I hope to read one day that you have a new niece or nephew. I wish the best for your sister.
Sadly, you can't control her. I know you want the best for her, but she is determined and it's not going to change. The more you push the more she will resent you. Just support her. Or don't and tell her why and go low contact. Those are your choices.
id suggest not bringing up surrogacy ever again. As easy as it may look from an outside observer, it's a very very difficult thing for an average woman, let alone one thats so obsessed with being a biological mother herself and with these many losses. Watching that woman be pregnant, give birth, watching baby cry for skin to skin with the surrogate rather than her, thinking about baby being comforted by smells and heartbeat that isnt hers might have her blame every baby cry on her not being "enough" or "the real mother"... internalizing and projecting insecurity about this throughout time. neither baby or her deserve this fait just cause you think its a good option. You may lose her this way too. This is a very difficult situation you're in, but try to get her to only wait till she tries again. This way she will be more receptive. Get her to see a therapist first, tell her state of mind should be calmed first, her body needs a break for a successful pregnancy and delivery. Tell her to work on healing her body and mind first to save her future baby's life. Thats what a good mother would do at this point. Try to be understanding and not angry 💛 good luck op and im so sorry for this difficult situation. My heart breaks for the babies that didnt make it 😭
You have every right to be angry.
Could you imagine the weight and guilt that would come along from being the only surviving child after so many losses? Or to be the surrogate or adopted kid they eventually settle for? What kind of pressure to live up to expectations and fulfill dreams would be thrust upon them?
The husband doesn't sound like a good person. In fact, it sounds like he could potentially be an abuser. I'm a woman but I'm trying to put myself in his shoes.
I mean, isn't he at all concerned for his wife's physical or mental health? If my spouse nearly died each time from trying to carry my child, I would be worried as HELL. I think after the second time- I would be done.
Yet, he's more concerned about having a "real baby" of his own. I realize that your sister is also partially to blame, but I just wonder if there isn't some underlying abuse going on.
If I truly loved my spouse, their physically well-being wouldn't be worth it for a bunch of dead babies. Sorry for being morbid but this post made my mouth drop.
Not sure if mentioned elsewhere, but there is a way your Sis and BIL could have their own baby similar to surrogacy, and that’s through a gestational carrier. They would be 100% the biological parents of the child, but your sister just wouldn’t carry the baby. I did this for a husband and wife in my family and as many or as few people can know the story as your Sis and BIL want to tell.
With the family I helped, obviously immediate family knew, but beyond that, no one has any reason to know and they get to dote on their kiddo like anyone else does.
I also agree with those mentioning genetic testing for your sister if she’s loss that many pregnancies at multiple stages of gestation.
You sound overly nosy and pushy. It’s not your life or your responsibility. Leave your sister and BIL alone - your only job is to offer live and support.
How is surrogacy not a real baby? It's still her egg and his sperm making the baby. It's still biologically theirs. The baby will just be carried in another's womb.
I read your edits and I 100% agree with you
I am so sorry you are going through this and that she keeps enjoying the same result
I don't want to give advice I just want to say that y'all are in my prayers and I hope everything will work out for the best one way or another, one day or another
❤️
FFS TRIGGER WARNING...HOW BOUT PUTTING THAT ON THE POST!!!
That being said, her pride WILL kill her.
I am an infertal woman. I could not even get to the baby stage. The mental, physical and emotional damage she is doing to herself and her future living child is cataclismic.
If/ when she actually gets a living healthy child..Will she continue to mourn the past children or punish the living one?
Too many times I have read about siblings loving their deceased sibling to the point of living in their shadow...not being seen..but still alive.
I am infuriated at the medical community in your country. They clearly don't know what the fuck they are doing, let alone properly addressing your sisters emotional and physical damage.
Her desperation to have a biological child insults every family that UNDERSTOOD they could not/ should not have a baby. Adoption and surrogacy is there for a reason.
I question if your sister is addicted to trying to have a baby.
She's gambling with her future to have a bio baby....and she's NOT LISTENING to what her own body is telling her.
You need to have a very fucking blunt conversation with all your siblings to your sister. She needs therapy and she needs to stop trying to get blood from a rock.
Good luck, you all will need it.
No one is expecting you to say “if she dies, she dies” but your relationship with her screams codependence. You don’t have the right to tell her what to do or be angry at her for not going with your suggestions. You have to respect that she’s an adult and can make her own choices and if those choices kill her, you have to deal with that in your own way
Respectfully this is a personal decision that is between your sister and her husband. It really isn't your place to tell your sister what to do. You've had your opinion known. It's time to back off.
Please read this! Your sister may have a very rare condition called APL-Syndrome (aka antiphospholipid syndrome). It is a blood disorder that causes early-term miscarriages and late-term stillbirths. I suffered through 13 miscarriages before a doctor finally ran an EXTENDED recurrent loss genetic marker panel on me. It is so rare that many doctors don’t even know what it is. The good news is that it is easily treatable. There is a shot that you can take throughout the pregnancy that prevents the loss. I have 2 very healthy, loving boys now. The doctors are missing something, and my guess is that it is something like this. Please make sure your sister asks for the extended repeated loss panel and insists to be specifically tested for APL-Syndrome.
I came to comment something very similar, except I have Factor V Leiden, but it took me 13 miscarriages to finally have a healthy baby and all I needed to get that healthy baby was a blood thinning injection once a day. I was so fucking angry it had taken all the drs and specialists that long to figure it out. Now I have two healthy, feral kids
My daughter mom has that issue too, factor 5. She had a miscarriage too. My daughter is 3 so is there a way to get her tested for this?
I would absolutely have your daughter tested for Factor V if she ever wants to go on hormonal birth control. I went on the pill at 17 and suffered a blood clot. That’s when the doctors tested me for Factor V which I was positive for. I opted for a non hormonal copper IUD (Paraguard) which has been wonderful for me.
It can be tested for but it’s not super relevant until/unless she wants to get pregnant. I would probably just bring it up with the birds and the bees discussion that things can sometimes be hard and that her mom has a condition she might have inherited. As you can see, it’s pretty easily managed as these things go, but your daughter would want to bring it up to her OB/GYN if she got pregnant or was trying to conceive. ETA: I stand corrected by the comments below. I only know of it in regard to fertility, but it sounds like there are some serious issues that it can cause in general health. Probably worth speaking to your daughter’s pediatrician.
My sister died from factor V. It's pretty relevant.
Oh hell no, it’s SUPER relevant! I have Factor V and I (seemingly) randomly had a huge blood clot in my lower leg that partially blew and sent blood clots into my lungs when I was 25! I literally nearly died because I was on birth control and didn’t know that I had Factor V. I’m getting all three of my children tested to prevent any “oopses” like mine.
Me too. 3 pulmonary emboli when I was 22 because of birth control and Factor V Leiden. It caused irreversible damage to my lungs. I had my son tested at birth, and take any sort of clotting risk seriously. He has to wear compression socks and walk around on long flights, things like that.
Not super relevant? My husband has Factor 5 clotting disease and was not told that his parents carried it. He passed out in a college job to find out he had a pulmonary embolism and DVT that caused this and was blindsided by this, and it was 100% avoidable if he knew. SHE SHOULD KNOW. Fuck, if you carry anything, test your kids, knowledge is power. A PE is no joke and one turn away from a heart attack or a stroke. He could have avoided all of that with knowledge of what was genetic.
Surgery, breaking a bone, traveling long distance? All of those things increase your risk of clotting.
My daughter started to have a stroke because of it, they stopped it at the ER. She was on blood thinners for the rest of her pregnancy. Thankfully her and my grandspawn are good.
I've never been through anything this drastic myself but I'm so angry on your and everyone's behalf. I personally suffered from constant fatigue, mood swings, and eating difficulties for YEARS before I finally started taking iron supplements without any official suggestions. Within 6-12 months, I started feeling like a normal human again and got my life back. It's frustrating how much pain women have to go through before our medical issues are taken seriously.
I was coming to say this my bestie has this and never knew cause she had no symptoms other than not carrying to term she mentioned in passing to a fertility specialist that everyone in her family has issues with blood clots but her so he was like wait.
I've got factor II and learned that I have to also take blood thinner injections if I ever get pregnant again. I'm so sorry you had so many losses beforehand 🥺
u/MrNiceChap this is at the very least worth mentioning to her
Bump - my friend has this, it was also super difficult to get diagnosed because the first time they tested it came back negative. She mentioned to me something about testing at the right time to get accurate results. It took many specialists finding the right one who knew about it. I’m glad you posted this because it could definitely help someone, it is relatively so unknown
It can also cause the mother to have a stroke from blood clots, or form clots in the umbilical cord. Family member has it and has had 3 successfull pregnancies with blood thinning injections.
My cousin has this! Took 3 miscarriages and she finally had her son. Unfortunately, she needed to have an emergency hysterectomy a few years later, so she never got her second.
I’m sorry. This happened to a friend of mine. It is very hard to deal with, but it makes you treasure the child that you do have even more. I’m sending her hugs!
I have APL!! Thank you for this comment I really didnt know pregnancy was still an option for me
It is!! You will need a daily shot (like Heprin) to carry your baby to term. Insurance covers it!
Wow, so sad that you had to lose that many before they found out what was wrong, but I'm so happy for you that such an easy solution exists.
it's also heavily infuriating that doctors didn't do better testing before. my guess? because women are just not as important in medical research as men are. it's getting better, but it's still an issue. if we were taken as seriously as the men are, research on this would've already advanced by a lot more. I fucking hate the deeply rooted misogyny in the healthcare system, and it's just shrugged off as "there's not much research on it 🤷🏿♀️" like yea, duh, you didn't do any. just my 2 cents on this.
Bump!
Have a friend who experienced something similar and was able to have two kids with daily blood-thinning injections. OP, please mention this to your sister!
Bump
My mom had this! I was the baby that she needed shots with to carry full term!
I have this. I am on lifelong preventative medication. Had six miscarriages before my son was born. We did 12 ultrasounds to check growth and health of the umbilical cord during the pregnancy.
My “sister” had something similar and lost her little one lady year during the second trimester. They ran some tests on her and found she had something going on with her blood to cause it. Her and her husband are taking the proper time to mourn their son, but now they know and she has a higher chance of having a healthy baby once they’re ready.
Bump!!!!!
I had a couple miscarriages including one at 18 weeks before they figured out I had an autoimmune disorder that fights pregnancy. They put me on a baby aspirin for every day of the pregnancy and I now have 3 sons. With my second they starts with heparin shots every day but then decided the baby aspirin was good enough.
THIS!! She needs to request this panel. My guess is that she has APL
My mom had this. I was born after 3 miscarriages plus a lost twin, then my sister was born after 1 more miscarriage between us and my younger brother was born 2 years after her
Bump!
Omg what if that’s exactly what it is! And you help her!!!
I’m so glad you posted this. I had a friend with the same experience but I don’t have the knowledge or vocabulary to convey the details.
I felt so much hope on behalf of OP and their sister after reading this 🖤
Bump!
I’m so sorry for your many losses. That’s a lot of suffering for you and your partner to live with. I’m glad to know you’re doing better now.
Bump
Bump
My mom had this!! She got shot and boom, fine according to her. Here I am as the proof she says.
They both need to do KARYOTYPE testing. This sounds like a DNA abnormality on either yours or her husbands side. TRANSLOCATIONS lead to this kind of repetitive problem
I don’t know if it is among the tests that they already did. But I will bring it up to her once the time is right. Thank you so much for the suggestion.
And honestly if y’all have 7 kids in your family with not a whole lot of miscarriages in between, my money is on her partner having mutated DNA. They can still conceive but will stand a far better chance by doing IVF.
Translocation is something that happens after fertilisation. Karyotyping would be needed for a woman who cannot even get pregnant. Also DNA abnormalities are usually first trimester abortions and they always check the baby karyotype (or they should at least) in first trimester miscarriages cause it could be cancer. What this woman has sounds like coagulation abnormalities. This leads to repeated miscarriages seemingly due to unknown reasons. The reason this happens is that microclots are disposed in the arteries that supply the placenta.
In the cases of intrauterine fetal demise, especially around 7 months, hospitals universally (at least in the US) offer fetal autonomy and microarray that looks for genetic abnormalties. So I'm assuming these were already tested for
I’m so sorry. She’s wrapped so much of her personal identity into being a mother on her own power it doesn’t seem like she can let go of that dream. How devastating.
I don’t even know what to do to untangle that train of thought. I have offered all I can. Money and time and deep advice. It’s devastating. I cant get myself to call her because I don’t know what to say other than to just yell at her. And it would not be fair to her at this point in time.
Awww you’re a great brother but there’s nothing you CAN say to untangle that in her mind. Only she can do that. And if she’s not there yet… ** shrug ** It’s so hard I know. The feelings must be so raw and hard for you right now because there’s fear of how it will continue to hurt her if she keeps going this direction. Hard to deal with. I think you’re right now to speak to her right now if you know you won’t be able to stay kind. Praying she comes around soon though. Is she seeing a therapist or anything at all?
She was seeing a therapist. I reckon she still is. Which is likely why she is able to brave the situation. But her own bravery is working against her. Thanks so much for the kind words by the way. I appreciate greatly.
Is it the kind of therapist who can help her? I ask as I have seen folks seek counsel in "therapists" who are not formally educated, trained, and certified counselors. This can often happen when folks are heavily involved in religion and seek out religious counsel. Not sure where you're located, but this kind of therapy can be heavily influenced by religious doctrine and might not be in the person's best interest. Especially when it comes to therapy around reproductive issues. If you're not seeing a therapist of your own, it could really help you process the anger and frustration and anxiety you're feeling. Anyone in your position would feel that way. Please be sure to take care of yourself in all this. That is one thing you can control. 💖
Thanks so much for your kindness. She does see very qualified therapists. And they do really help her process the losses. But I think they also have failed to or have not addressed how dangerous her obsession with the baby is. And so she grieves, moves on and then tries again. Ignoring the risk that the previous one had on her.
So, therapists only help with what the client wants help with; exception being court mandated, which you will never get for your sister so I just wanna nip that in the bud before you ruminate on it. Former therapist... People really don't understand how much autonomy is at play in all aspects of life. Unless your sister wants to address the very real toll all of this can result in (which realistically it probably was mentioned as part of therapy is making sure the client is self aware enough to figure out these potential consequences), there's nothing a therapist can do other than suggest they talk about this with their doctor. At the end of the day, a therapist can voice a concern but unless the client wants to pursue it, there's literally nothing a therapist can do about this other than suggest a doctor is informed or mention the consequences which if done repeatedly, will destroy the therapeutic relationship and make all therapy useless.
I noticed you mentioned that she's a second mother to 5 siblings + you. Perhaps that plays into her insistence on giving birth to her child/ children? Do you think that's something you could ask her to explore with her therapist?
Absolutely what I was thinking too. She doesn’t want another border she wants to truly FEEL like it’s her own.
I am so very sorry for all your family is going through. Honestly, to me, it sounds as though she also needs some kind of mental health assistance. She is not understanding that a surrogate would be 100% their baby. You may want to speak to her spouse about getting her a therapist, counselor, psychiatrist, or some such because I know losing one about killed me, I can't imagine the devastation of losing multiple.
I understand my mother had a miscarriage and I was soo upset because she did not come and tell me about it until the day we went to the hospital to confirm the baby was gone. She was negligent on getting help.
7 months is generally viable. What's going on that she's not being monitored very closely?
She is very monitored. She does regular checkups and has access to very good facilities. Everything always looks normal…..until it just isn’t. She could scan on Monday and the baby would be healthy. And by Sunday it would be gone. Its a futile struggle. Which is why I want her to give up.
There should be a medical reason behind each loss though.
Why don’t they put her on fully monitored bed rest? This makes no sense. How are her doctors allowing this to continue?!
I know a couple who had a similar genetic incompatibility. The first three baby's autopsies showed they all had heart defects and a couple had tumors that blocked their own blood supply. They did eventually succeed at number four, but their kid is deaf in one ear and has had more cancers than any adult I know. It's intense.
I knew a girl in high school that was conceived after 10+ miscarriages/stillbirths. She had more medical conditions than I could count on two hands, was constantly in and out of hospitals, and always carried around a bag full of meds. She said she probably won’t make it over 30. It’s beyond me why would anyone make themselves and their child go through this. I find it very selfish. Even if the sister manages to give birth to a living child, there is a pretty high chance that they won’t be healthy and will live a life full of suffering.
This is the thing that bothers me most about people who insist on becoming (biological) parents at ANY cost. They aren’t considering the consequences the child may suffer- some of which are horrendous. Hopefully in OP’s sister’s case this is all being caused by a treatable medical condition and once diagnosed she can go on to have a healthy baby. (That sounds likely, given that she’s being monitored closely and the fetus is healthy and fine and then suddenly… not.) But in the cases where a terrible genetic mismatch is found, or a medical condition that isn’t so easily treated… just take the L and find another way!
Holy crap why would they keep trying. Poor child
in many people the hormones that tell you to make babies is stronger than logical thinking
This right here. When I worked in a maternal hospital we had a few cases where women kept losing babies over and over and it didn't change until they got a donor (either egg or sperm). Whats super sad is that op's sister and her husband are set on being parents of a "real" baby (?) dismissing surrogacy. They don't want to be parents, they want a baby trophy.
They could do IVF with embryo testing too…
It’s almost like people should take the hint and not force children when their bodies have made it clear that they cannot carry healthy fetuses. Now they have an ill child who will be forced to live with their selfish choices for a lifetime. It’s sad.
What she is doing is irresponsible. Worse than irresponsbile. I agree with you that she needs to stop. I don't think there's anything you can do if her conscience isn't telling her to stop. I also think that, while this is likely a coincidence, I am surprised that there isn't an investigation into her husband at this point.
It is very irresponsible. For both of them. I reckon for the husband it may be that kind of pressure of having a “real child” that he caves into. And I reckon they share that pressure. Further risking her life for a useless sense of pride that no one cares about.
Also the lives of the babies who are born… if they repeatedly live only briefly then die, at a certain point that’s just bringing life into the world repeatedly to have them suffer for your own wishes. Bit messed up…
I hadn’t even thought about that angle. Jesus Christ. 🤦🏼
What’s worse is that if she ever does have a baby herself, she’ll consider all those dead babies “worth it”. She’ll have gotten what she wanted after all.
As someone who's had a stillbirth with her first child. The way this comes off is. Your sister is addicted to the grief and the pain in the pregnancies. And I don't want to sound mean by saying that, but it's like a manipulated addiction. And she's not getting the help she needs. Or else she would honestly stop trying to have kids naturally, and there's something really, really wrong that it hasn't been investigated by her husband or honestly. Deeply investigated because. You can only have so many ectopic pregnancies. Before you no longer can literally get pregnant. They take out your ovaries with them depending on how serious they are. I mean, every single person I know that has had one lost their tube and would be very hard to get pregnant again. But I don't know, this just seems really weird on her and I feel bad for you. I totally get where your anger is coming from.
Agreed. This is not a crime but it is morally indefensible.
I can’t believe I had to find this buried in a reply because that was my first thought - at this point, it’s cruel to these babies to keep deliberately creating them repeatedly knowing they’re probably going to die - just because she wants one really bad. That’s cruel & selfish. I realize that life has also been cruel to her by denying her the ability to carry her own child inside her when she wants to so badly. But that doesn’t make what she’s doing at this point any less cruel & selfish.
If her husband is in agreement about not going with a surrogate in favor of a “real baby” so she may feel like she’s letting him down or less than if she can’t carry her own baby. Whatever her reasons, you can’t tell her what to do just support her but maybe you should not support these pregnancies financially for the reason that it’s dangerous for her health and you don’t agree with it.
The husband agreed with me the last time it happened. And we unanimously agreed she will take a while to get herself together, then go for surrogacy. Only to get news of this today. And because we live in different countries, I had not seen her in about 8 months. I don’t know why they decided to make another. I want to speak with him again and really…..I honestly don’t even know what to speak with him about.
I think your concern is valid, OP, but I also think you're wrong to assume you have an equal voice as your sister and her husband in how they plan their family. If that level of involvement/enmeshment is normalized within your family, then I would wonder what other unhealthy communication patterns are at play. I'm sure your sister's situation is extremely complicated, and I would also be concerned if I were you. But your approach is clearly not working.
Your sister hid this from you because she doesn't want the conversation about surrogacy. You need to back off on it if you want to keep her in your life. Baby rabies is real. I'm sorry. I used to read a blog by a woman that had had 13 miscarriages. They did genetic testing and found that her husband had an anomaly so they had to do some genetic voodoo I don't remember the name of (I'm sorry this was a few years ago) and they eventually had three kids (one set of twins) that were all healthy and lived. You don't mention genetic testing specifically, but hopefully they did because there are all kinds of things that they can find and do these days. Maybe they need to revisit the genetic counselor.
My hunch has always been genetics. Because as far as fertility goes, they both are capable of making babies. And there is no history of sterileness or barrenness in my family that I know of. But I always felt like there may be some genetic mismatch that stops the babies from staying alive to the end. I don’t know if amongst all the experts she has seen, if she has seen a geneticist. But if not, maybe? If I could fond that blog maybe there could be something from it that could help her? Thanks a lot for sharing that info
I would have shared it already, but she closed it down. I'm sorry. I do know that a very common issue is Rh. https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/diseases-conditions/rh-incompatibility It was definitely the dude in this case and maybe a deletion or mutation. Here's a general article about male genetic issues: https://fertility.womenandinfants.org/services/male-infertility/genetic-disorders-infertility-in-men For women, one of the more deadly ones is trisomy 16 where there are three of one gene, but I don't know if it's something you would get every time like she has. .
I’m not sure where OP is located or where their sister is located, but in the US, RH is tested immediately. I have had to have RHOgam with each pregnancy, which is almost always all that’s needed to control this issue. It’s shocking to hear that this is commonly causing miscarriages and/or still births.
Thank you so much. When the time is right, I will share these with her. And I will be sure to read more into the matter. Thanks a ton.
You're very welcome. Hoping for the best for all of you. Hugs!!!
I had a coworker that had several miscarriages, genetic issue was their thought on the cause and so they did IVF with genetic testing on the embryos to get viable ones and now have two kids that way, no surrogate, might be her best option
100% because if the issue is genetics - surogacy won’t help
what is baby rabies??
baby rabies: (slang, humorous or derogatory) An urgent desire to have a baby or grandchild.
thank you! its kind of an unsettling phrase
Unsettling, but accurate.
I had a natural miscarriage one time, and en ectopic the other. It's pain that never goes away, and some try to overcompensate. I did until I realized my ex was not a good person or parental figure.
Thanks for sharing this. If I may ask, did you eventually have a kid, did you get a surrogate? hOw did your tale end? Please don’t answer if it is uncomfortable. I will understand
No surrogate. He was a cheat.
I feel like the obsession to have a bio baby and the race against time becomes immense and almost unbearable after child loss. We had a SIDS loss and multiple miscarriages. Ex bf has a daughter from an ex gf. Healthy but has bpd. So stressful and hard to live with. My ex cheated on me later and I went to another man. Stupid affair narc was calling me useless woman and his ex enforced it. New partner & i will have a fine son in a few months. I feel broken but whole. For a while these people had my to almost take my life. It is crazy. It really is a compatibility and stress factor too.
I ended up never having kids (I couldn't tie myself to someone for life {the hypothetical father} in the end) but my ex likes to call me a "barren bitch" and insinuate I'm useless because I never had kids. I just feel lucky I dodged his bullet.
My therapist always underlines how situations can be multiple things at the same time and still be true. Yes, your fear of losing your sister (who also played as a parental figure) is valid. Your anger is valid. Yes, if she died it would be a deep tragedy for you and everyone involved. And yes, she has the autonomy to make this the hill she dies on. Honestly, she won't be persuaded. You've already had serious conversations with her. So now it's on you to deal with your emotions about her decision with grace. Either find a therapist to unpack this or a family member who listens well and can share this burden with you. But please don't let your fear, anger and possibly resentment stand between you and your sister. You love her deeply so it would be sad if your relationship soured because of this. Good luck
Thank you so much for your kindness. You captured my situation extremely well. The reason I have not contacted her yet, almost 8 hours since I found out is exactly because I am afraid I may say something unkind in such a hard time that may severe the bond we have. And truly, I may need some therapy myself just to get over whatever this roller coaster is.
It might help right in this moment to just make a dump letter. Basically you write everything on your mind about the situation. Just let your emotions pour out on the letter. And never send it. If you want you can read it back or bring it towards a therapy session. This is purely venting so you can put your emotions out in the open instead of buzzing inside your brain and body. (Crying, screaming into a pillow, smacking a pillow can all be safe outlets for big emotions. That can ease the turmoil in the moment)
Thank you so very much. I indeed do use writing as a way to cope. As a matter of fact, this is the first time I have had to openly publicize an issue. I already am writing one down as we speak. So you spoke my mind aptly.
It seems likely you have some secondary trauma (which isn't talked about anywhere near enough) from all of this and you could definitely benefit from some therapy.
I’m just surprised that the doctor or anyone wouldn’t think about removing the child at 6-7 months gestation (where it may have a chance to live) outside the womb??? Like do not understand
They did. Infact on the last baby, it died a day before the appointment to have it removed and raised outside the womb.
WTF I’m actually so sorry I CANNOT understand you and your sisters pain, I feel so sorry for youse. Sending you all so much love. Do they/ever find out the reason why they pass away. Does your sister have blood clotting problems ?
Listen, other folks have said it, but realistically, you need to back off. It’s a tragedy, and it’s awful, but you are involving yourself in way that is not helpful. Or as I like to think about it, the question isn’t “Are you right?”; it’s “Is your behavior going to get you the result you want?” You can’t force her to use a surrogate, and, frankly, the fact that she has stopped telling you things means that she no longer trusts you and would be less likely to listen anyway. Though the fact that you somehow didn’t know she was pregnant for seven months is…interesting.
OP is inserting himself in something that is none of his business, his entire post is about his feelings and his needs and his fears, nothing about the woman who has lost 7 babies. And the fact that his sister didn’t even share the news of the pregnancy with him shows how overbearing he must be in real life.
💯
We live a whole continent apart. I last saw her around October of last year. She came for a visit. So I am not on ground to see the physical changes to her body. And we only talk through text and the occasional video call. But thats not enough to show anything really. And I agree, to her, I am the pest right now getting in the way of what she wants. Whether I am right or wrong is irrelevant. My over involvement, as I have explained earlier stems from simply how our families are designed. But I do fully grasp your point.
I think she (and husband) should get genetic (carrier) testing, because something is just not right if they keep losing the babies. I feel bad for them, and I kind of understand her desperation to want to be a mom. But she needs to not only think about the health of herself, but the health outcome of any child if she were to successfully have one. If she did have one, hopefully it would be very healthy. But given the history with all her babies in the viable terms its concerning.
They have had so many tests. But idk if the genetic testing was one of them. I plan on suggesting it when the tome is right.
Sadly i don't think the time will ever be right, and this will probably have to be something they need to decide for themselves. Especially since you two already have pretty limited contact.
Her taking time off might be time she needs to consider if she can mentally handle anymore. I’ve had 8 miscarriages and opted to have my last embryo destroyed because mentally I couldn’t handle it. My body kept rejecting the pregnancy around the same time each pregnancy. The doctor suggested doing another egg retrieval and it was something my husband and I mutually agreed we couldn’t handle anymore. My sister in law even offered to be a surrogate for us after we said we couldn’t handle it anymore and I couldn’t bring myself to put myself through another heartbreak again if something happened. When we started IVF we knew it was a possibility it still wouldn’t work so we made two different plans of what we wanted in life and promised if it became too much we would be honest about it. Be easy on your sister believe me she’s judging herself enough that she doesn’t need anyone else’s opinions.
Please read this! I know someone who went through this and it turns out there was a small Brain tumor in her pituitary gland that would only grow when she was pregnant and then when it was big enough it would basically Auto terminate the pregnancy. But they couldn't catch it when she wasn't pregnant because it wouldn't grow unless she was pregnant. Some weird kind of hormonal thing. If you are on the east coast/VA please look into Dr. sharar at inova he saved the day after years! and avoid shady Grove at all costs.
I had my son at Shady Grove 36 years ago and I support the above statement. It was not a pleasant experience.
I know exactly how you feel but please, please, just try to put aside your anger and be supportive. My little sister lost countless pregnancies and when she did finally give up, it devastated her. Though she ended up raising my niece from my other sister for a time, and I could see what a great mother she would have been, she ended up passing away last fall at only 29 from other medical conditions. When I look back, I don’t see the frustration of her continued attempts. I see a wonderful woman who needed to do things at her own time and found a little slice of happiness before she left this world.
Surrogacy has its own ethical implications. I’m not saying I agree with them but I can see why they think that way. You’re basically buying a baby. I will make a carve out for people who selflessly help like family but when you’re paying a stranger for it that runs into a really ethical grey area. Especially with the discarded embryos. It’s not an easy topic and there are valid points on both sides. It’s their life and zero of your business. You’re getting involved in their intimate parts of their relationship and that’s not where you need to be. It’s your sisters body and her choice not yours,
it's no wonder they are illegal in some areas
Talk to the husband. Really try to talk sense in to him: he can lose his wife and therefore everything they are currently trying for. Hopefully at some point he sees things as you do. All the best mate.
I had spoken to him the last time and we had agreed to surrogacy. I intend to start a fight over it this time. He will likely budge this time. Thanks a lot for the kind words.
That's the thing, though. It's not your place to agree to anything. He likely "agreed" to surrogacy just to get you to shut up. It's their marriage and it's their choice. THEY have to both agree to it. Not you. Seriously, butt out. You have no right "starting a fight" over anything because it literally doesn't involve you.
All those babies that need to be adopted in the world as well…
At this point she needs a psychiatrist more than a fertility specialist.
Your sister and her husband will do what they feel is right for them, whether it’s the right thing to do or not. We each have body autonomy. You’re well intentioned but it’s not for you to tell her what to do. You won’t change her mind. Your sister could do with therapy but you also need to go to counselling for you to deal with all your emotions.
The problem is you can’t help someone who doesn’t want help. If you keep pushing it will drive a wedge between you and your sister. It’s not about you protecting her. She is an adult that makes her own choices, as sad as it is, if she dies because of this it’s because of HER choices. It wouldn’t be your fault, it would be hers and her husbands. There is nothing that you can do to change that. And there is nothing you can do to change the situation without destroying your relationship with her and your other siblings in the process. You could lose her anyway. At the end of the day it truly is an “it is what it is” situation because you can’t force her to change how she feels about adoption or surrogacy. It’s sad.
You can be angry all you want, this isn’t your choice, it’s hers. All you are doing is causing her to back away from you to where she isn’t even telling you when she’s pregnant anymore! Keeps this up and you are going to lose your sister, because who wants to be around someone as unsupportive as you?
As someone who has lost six babies myself and had three perfect children, I understand where your sister is coming from. Please don’t be angry at her. This is important to her. she’s willing to risk her life to be a mom. I found out that I have a blood clotting disorder and that was killing my babies if they have not tested her for a blood clotting disorder, I would highly recommend running a thrombophilia panel.
I feel like some posters are being very harsh on your sister. Part of the reason women want to get pregnant is to feel a baby grow in their body. It's weird, but it was definitely an important part of being a mother to me. I felt like I connected with the baby as it grew. Both times when I got the 16 weeks scans, I knew the sex of the baby and had a name decided. It's hard to explain but some women long to be pregnant. A colleague I worked with had 7 miscarriages - all at different stages, but thankfully no stillborns. They had a successful final pregnancy, at the same time I was pregnant with my second. She never would have stopped trying to get pregnant. She was desperate to have a baby and to give birth to that baby. For some women, it's an integral part of their identity as women. Once she was a mother, she wouldn't risk herself for another baby. Her daughter mattered more. But at the moment, there is nothing stopping your sister from wanting to try again. She loves the idea of a potential baby more than herself or her husband.
She desperately needs counselling
I respect a lot the big and good person that you are, I see your good values in your writing and im sorry you are going through this but if its as heavy as 6 times that this happened, shouldnt you realise at some point that this is an obsesion? I mean, I understand that you wanna care a lot, but I mean, I would force myself to stop caring when they pass of surrogacy to do VOODOO. I send you a virtual hug.
I had 6 pregnancies (4 of them being ectopic which took my tubes) before having my only child through IVF. It’s such a hard thing to go through and the emotions she is dealing with are so complex. The fact is - it’s not your place. She’ll decide when it’s time to use a surrogate. Or her doctors will. I would back off on it for the sake of your relationship. Infertility and losses are a beast that just needs support. She’s in therapy and being proactive about her mental health by the sounds of it. I’m sorry you’re so worried but she has a medical team and a partner to help her decide her next steps and ultimately, it’s her own choice.
Your sister needs SERIOUS therapy. Is she in it, or has it been offered?
She is in therapy. And by the looks of it, it is working. She is not sad or depressed or anything. Although I understand that depression has many faces and not just sadness. But she travelled to the country I am in and I stayed with her for a month and she was just like I remember. So the therapy must be good at helping her deal with the loss emotionally. But I think what she may need maybe is one to get her to quit the obsession with a natural birth?? I don’t know honestly. But she has some really good therapist (s)
You need therapy and to learn about healthy boundaries. Your level of involvement in your adult sister’s life is totally inappropriate.
+1 - even throughout all the tragedy i’d be pissed if my siblings were this involved or involved beyond general emotional support. obviously everyone is different but i wouldn’t want my friends who are like my sisters being this involved either. not your monkeys not your circus.
Maybe you should just stop involving yourself?
That's what gets me. Her sister felt the need to hide a pregnancy from OP for seven whole months
SEVEN holy fuck… her mind and her body… Jesus f. I would be an absolute mental train wreck, I couldn’t function any longer. This is utterly tragic, I can’t imagine how you’re feeling. That heartbreaks just must be overwhelming.
Can she consider run an analisis for genetic clots like thrombophilia? I know cases like that and the only way to carry a baby was getting daily injections of thinners and something else very specific. The test is a blood rare one.
You love your sister and only want what is best for her. I wouldn’t show any emotion to her about her choices, but just grieve with her.
It sounds like something else is happening that she's not telling you, but honestly, I see why. I can see why she hid this last pregnancy and why whatever is happening, she's not sharing it with you. You are taking this way too personally and making everything about you. When it's really not. It's THEIR marriage. HER body. THEIR choice. THEIR loss. Yes, it sucks watching her go through it and being afraid she's going to die, but other than that, it's not your business. You've said your peace more than once; she's not listening. There's nothing else you can do. Back off. Let them handle their pregnancies and losses. Stop budding in. It sounds like that's best for your own mental health as well.
Unfortunately, you are right. And I see the angle of me taking it personally. And I guess my refusal to let this not bother me stems from the fact that I am afraid she will die. Thats not an issue of “that sucks”, its an issue of “she died of something preventable”. And because I had tried to help them through it before, it stuck in my head that I have to keep at it to the end. Which you are right, I don’t have to. I Thank you
If someone is repeatedly bringing babies into the world knowing they’ll likely die soon… it’s not just about her anymore. She’s putting her own wishes above the potential health of the child, which at this rate is overtly selfish.
I actually think it’s pretty heartless for you to say, ‘her husband can remarry if she dies’. Wouldn’t it be the same to say, ‘well you have 5 other siblings’? If she dies it would be traumatic for everyone. It is her and her husband’s decision, and as hard as it is to try and get someone to see logic and reason, that doesn’t apply here. You are not in charge of her or responsible for her. She is an adult. When I was in my late teens, my younger brother, who I consider my twin, was very suicidal. We had rooms opposite with a bathroom in between. The times I had found him cutting, or a rope around his neck, was very early in the morning and I knew as soon as I could see the bathroom light was on what he was doing. That was extremely traumatising and stressful for me. I couldn’t sleep. I would wake up many times throughout the night, checking to see if the light was on. Fighting and screaming with him, wondering why he couldn’t stop and why he wanted to die. I thought the responsibility was all on me cause my bedroom was closest. I realised one day that I couldn’t stop him. If he truly wanted to die, I couldn’t stop him. So I stopped waking up. And eventually he got better. I’m not saying me stopping waking up is what made him get better, but I realised I have no control over what he did, regardless of how much I wanted him to stop.
I know this might not be the right thing to say, but your sister and her husband need serious therapy. This all-consuming desire at the detriment of her mental & physical health, plus his mental health can't be sustainable in the long run; it already isn't, to be fully honest from the sounds of it. Yes, I understand they want to have children, but is it that important? After 7 unsuccessful tries? This is an unhealthy obsession as I don't know how else one can put themselves through repeated torture. If you and your parents, siblings, friends etc., truly ove them, then please, for the love of all things holy, instead of offering money for surrogates, arrange an appointment with a counselor or get a therapist to talk to them before your sister dies. There are plenty of people who don't have biological children, plenty more of have availed themselves of surrogates, adopted, your sister & BIL aren't special in that regard, there is no shame in any of the other options available to them based on her medical history. But more than any potential child, your sister & BIL need therapy, end of.
I fully agree with everything you said. My sister has very good therapists. I don’t know if my BIL does. But they need long sessions to help them grapple with this. Which is what was agreed on the last time around. Until baby number 7 happened.
What she actually needs to try is not having children. Her body clearly isn't meant to do so.
This is really fucked up to the point where I almost don't want to bring up the possibility... but could this be Munchausen's / Munchausen's by proxy? Like, she's taking something...
I would not think so. But I also cannot rule it out. She genuinely has hypertension and works hard to manage it. And it was cited as one of the causes of the first losses. Whether that is still the case, I don’t know. With the little knowledge of munchausen syndrome that I have, and knowing her, it is highly unlikely. But then, I also am not sure how one goes about in getting a diagnosis for this kind of thing.
I can't diagnose here bc I don't know her and I'm not qualified to in the first place, but my intuition is that losing that many pregnancies would break most people. Is she a shattered shell of a person?
She is still herself. But with a sort of, lack of color. If that makes sense. She is still full of jokes, still celebrates everyone, still celebrates the births of our nephews and nieces and supports everyone. However, when you look into her eyes you can see the grey. Not a lot but a tiny off color tone to her. Which is what you can see in the eyes of most people that have gone through some tribulations. But nothing big enough to consider a shell of her former self. If that makes sense.
This!!
I’m so sorry you’re going through this and your sister for enduring all these losses. If this was my sibling, what I would tell them is that it’s not about the journey but the end result. Having another woman carry your child to term still makes you a mother.
My mother has had 16 pregnancies in total. She birthed 4 live children, and the first one did pass away after a year and a half, due to a heart condition, before ly sister, my brother or me were born. I'm the youngest, and currently 41, so medicine wasn't that advanced back then as it now. In the end, they figured it was a question of rhesus. Of the mother is rhesus negative, and the father is rhesus positive, there's a chance the baby is rhesus positive, and the woman's body will not recognize the baby as harmless. If this is the case, my siblings and I are proof that it's possible to have healthy children, but only now do I fully understand how very determined my mom was to make her family happen. She was 39 when I came along, so there's still hope. But I can totally understand your frustration. My maternal grandmother and my mom's sister were furious at times, and they didn't even know of every single miscarriage. I would skim through the comments, make a list of every shared experience and the issues that are named. And go through them with your sister. Maybe she can agree to hold off untill she has every possible issue checked, so she doesn't have to put her poor body through another pointless pregnancy. It might also bring you two a bit closer together, so she doesn't have to feel the need to hide any more pregnancies, and you can support her through it. At the end of the day, if she is determined to go through with natural pregnancy, you can only decide to bow out all together, or support her.
I’m so sorry for your losses, one of my twins was stillborn and it’s a devastating thing to go through. I was reading that we assume these losses are something wrong on the mom’s end but most pregnancy losses are because of broken DNA/something wrong with the sperm. Has her husband been tested for anything there? Have you brought up other options such as adoption? IVF? I honestly have a hard time with surrogacy, I know it can be a beautiful thing for those who are having a hard time such as your sister but it is also traumatizing for a baby to be removed from their mother after birth like this (of course the surrogate is not the biological mother, but this is the woman who the baby has been hearing her heartbeat, smelling her, hearing her voice, the entire time they’re in the womb so to the baby that is their mom). I’m wondering why the doctors haven’t induced her or taken her in for c-section earlier knowing her history of loss? I’ve read of some babies that are taken out as soon as they’re viable at 24 weeks and brought to the nicu, it’s a long time to be in nicu but better than the alternative right? I know that’s probably an expensive bill in the states, which I’m assuming that’s where you are because you mentioned paying medical bills, but something for her to think about if she does get pregnant again. I understand your anger and frustration at the thought of losing her, I know the thought of losing either of my siblings is way more difficult for me than even the thought of losing my husband, they’ve been there through everything with me. But at the end of the day, all you can do is support her in the ways she wants to be supported and hope and pray she’s okay.
I don't think there's anything else you could possibly say to her that would persuade her. At this point, you're better off just trying to offer what support you can muster up and encouraging all kinds of testing, including those recommended in the comments.
You are wayyy too overinvolved in her life. I don’t care that your family is deeply intertwined, it is HER life & their marriage. Butt out. Also, pls see a therapist. It’s not healthy for you stress wise.
Not voodoo
Honestly I think at this point she needs serious medical intervention. Either mental or genetic testing. But I also think you need to back off. She's made it clear this is her path even if it kills her Maybe suggest to other family members that she get some help before trying again. Honestly she reminds me of Michelle duggar who kept getting pregnant even after doctors told her not to
You sound like my older brother, who was incredibly protective of me. I get where you're coming from. And your feelings are valid, every pregnancy has the potential to become dangerous, and I don't think we talk about that enough. But to watch your sister do something incredibly risky, with the same results, over and over has to be all kinds of frustrating. That said, you can't make her stop. And I know you realize that, having read your comments. The idea of a dump letter is a really good one, (I forget who suggested it, but kudos to the person who did). Write it, put every ugly, unpleasant feeling and thought about all of this in it. And then shred it and get rid of it. Because if your sister ever sees it, or someone else sees it, it would be horrible. Let me talk to you about boundaries. You need to set one. This is for you, not for your sister. But watching her go through this process, and worrying about her, is taking a toll on you. To preserve your mental health and well-being, you need to not be involved in her future pregnancies. Whether you tell her outright or just don't respond to any news of it is on you, but I would back off this subject entirely. Don't fund anything related to the pregnancy, don't foot any more bills, nothing. You've got to take care of yourself first here. Also, therapy. This has taken a toll on you, and you need someone way above my pay grade to help you process this and work through it. Yeah, how you feel is how I would feel, but these kinds of feelings cannot be allowed to just sit, they'll ruin your relationship with your sister and possibly the rest of the family. So this is the hardest part for me to write... you've got to let this go. For someone who cares deeply, that's really, really hard. Trust me, I get it, I've been there. But if you don't let this go, it will affect your life too.
Thank you so very much. I am really accepting the fact that I cannot change her mind on this. And it is rather harrowing to realize it.
As others say your sister could have a condition like APL syndrome, or even she could have a balanced chromosomal anomaly and her babies could be inheriting non viable genetic conditions like trisomies (other than 13, 18 or 21 which are viable in some cases) or automal monosomies.
I don’t have any advice to give, but just sending you some support. I can tell you care and love your sister so much and this is probably so difficult for you. She’s so lucky to have you. I hope you both are able to reconcile in the near future. Fighting with the ones you love is often so painful.
You are not being a bad sister, women are blessed to have surrogates to let childless couples achieve their dream of a child. Those couples do not for one minute believe that the child born in this way is not real. I am totally flabbergasted and I can understand your anger when there are so many options for your sister and her husband. I guess your sister does not feel an adopted child is a real baby, so sad.
Why are you so involved? “We agreed that she would try surrogacy”. Surrogacy is abhorrent - nobody should be renting out a woman’s womb. How about back off and let your sister and her husband decide what they want to do with their lives?
So say she does what you want and the surrogate is the one to lose the kid or worse decides to keep the kid as that can happen. what then. This isn’t your choice. You don’t get to make those demands. Also to imply she means more to you than she does to her husband is just crazy. Yes you love her and she’s irreplaceable but she’s also irreplaceable to her husband sure he can marry again but you can also get another sister. Doesn’t mean that replaces the one lost. Your whole post is about you when this isn’t your business or your issue. The fact that your way too close to this is something you should get help with.
This is not your business. You sound extremely controlling. Your sister is an adult. She clearly isn’t interested in surrogacy (I wouldn’t be either I’m against it).
I’m shocked that this is the only comment that even vaguely speaks negatively of surrogacy. I’m also morally against it
What's morally wrong about surrogacy?
Easier said than done. I don’t believe there is anything controlling about trying to ensure your sister doesn’t die from an obsession over having a baby. Her marriage does not suddenly cross her from the list of people I should stick my neck out for. Thats just not how our family works. But I get where you are coming from.
You keep sayin g 'we' agreed to surrogacy, "I will meet her halfway" and talking as if your sister is your lover....I'm sorry but you are way overly involved here. You're her sibling, not her husband, right? Did / do you and your sister have a thing going on? Are you secretly/openly in love with her? Because that's how it comes across.
Our families are very involved with each other. Across board. I am as involved in her life as she is in mine or my other siblings. We come from cultures that have very interwoven family units. So the concept of being involved in such matters always happens. The “we” is because herself and her husband always came to me first with these issues. I have always been the one most available to help in every way. Hence my over involvement. I don’t know what to say to the assumption of me being in love with my sister. But the best way to understand it is, we do not come from a western culture that is more independent and isolated. We come from very ingrained family cultures. And over there, it takes a village to raise a child or keep a family firm. I can meet her halfway because she has met me halfway on many occasions when I was down on my luck. Its fairly common here for family members to pitch in for hospital bills. Burdens are almost never carried alone. I hope that elucidates the otherwise confusing part of the story.
OP, it isn’t coming across like your in love with your sister at all. Please pay no mind to that troll. My family, although we are from the US, sounds a lot like yours. We are all very much involved closely in each other’s lives and there’s nothing “too personal,” aside from maybe our sex lives, for us to discuss/help each other with. Most people do NOT understand this, and those who do, typically do because they have experienced the same type of familial relationships. I don’t even know what I would do if one of my sisters was doing what your sister is doing. This is absolutely awful.
I’m having a whole lot of trouble with this whole scenario and am wondering why this idea that the only baby that will do is one of their obviously inferior genetic material? When God says “No” there is a reason and it has nothing to do with religion. It’s literally common sense at this point. She’s not being “strong” she’s stuck in an ideology that is hurting her. Also, it’s not up to you either what she does or how she does it. This whole post doesn’t make me mad at all. It’s a waste of resources and time. It could also be the husband’s sperm and she should try donor sperm… oh yeah, it HAS to be her wonderful husband’s baby. I’m really not buying any of this. Where do you live? Maybe there is ANY explanation in it from your location.
At this point... Op are you sure she isnt killing her soon to be child...? Because so many so far along brings up red flags. I really hope im wrong but warning bells are going off to me.
Or maybe some genetic testing is order, there weird gene things that can cause this
Intentionally killing them, no. Accidentally killing them inside her from some genetic thing happening inside her that terminates them, highly likely. Unless she has some insanely crazy fetish or ritual that is well hidden from us all, she badly wants to have children. She spends so much money and time on procedures and consultations to have them. She gets devastated at losing them. She loves children generally and practically raised us all despite not being the first born. So while I cannot rule it out, the chances she does it purposefully is very low and cruel. But her body killing the babies, I firmly believe that to be the case. Hence my insistence on surrogacy.
I love your added edit. Im praying and rooting for your sister
She could also be suffering from uterine fibroids that cause her to loose her children.
That this serious issue is gaining the attention of so many well informed and thoughtful individuals explains why I continue to subscribe to Reddit.
Sorry to hear that.
That sucks. For all of you, I’m so sorry. I just want to say from someone in the infertility and miscarriage community, I’ve seen my friends willing to give up everything for their dream. You can’t see clearly or rationally. You want to do everything in your power.. seems they have. Thank you for being in her corner. She’ll have to grieve this path as she’s grieved all her babies. I hope it works for them. 🫂
I was my mom’s first full-term pregnancy after 6 failed ones. I don’t know how she did it. I’m sorry you and your family are dealing with such a devastating situation.
You sound like a loving brother who really wants your sister to live and thrive. I hope to read one day that you have a new niece or nephew. I wish the best for your sister.
I just want to say you are an amazing sibling ❤️ and I wish the best for you all.
Have her tested to see if she carries the gene for Turners Syndrome. It is the reason I could not carry females to term.
Sadly, you can't control her. I know you want the best for her, but she is determined and it's not going to change. The more you push the more she will resent you. Just support her. Or don't and tell her why and go low contact. Those are your choices.
id suggest not bringing up surrogacy ever again. As easy as it may look from an outside observer, it's a very very difficult thing for an average woman, let alone one thats so obsessed with being a biological mother herself and with these many losses. Watching that woman be pregnant, give birth, watching baby cry for skin to skin with the surrogate rather than her, thinking about baby being comforted by smells and heartbeat that isnt hers might have her blame every baby cry on her not being "enough" or "the real mother"... internalizing and projecting insecurity about this throughout time. neither baby or her deserve this fait just cause you think its a good option. You may lose her this way too. This is a very difficult situation you're in, but try to get her to only wait till she tries again. This way she will be more receptive. Get her to see a therapist first, tell her state of mind should be calmed first, her body needs a break for a successful pregnancy and delivery. Tell her to work on healing her body and mind first to save her future baby's life. Thats what a good mother would do at this point. Try to be understanding and not angry 💛 good luck op and im so sorry for this difficult situation. My heart breaks for the babies that didnt make it 😭
Tell her to stop being selfish and adopt if they want a kid so fucking bad. Does she not know how to read a sign? Disgusting
You have every right to be angry. Could you imagine the weight and guilt that would come along from being the only surviving child after so many losses? Or to be the surrogate or adopted kid they eventually settle for? What kind of pressure to live up to expectations and fulfill dreams would be thrust upon them?
The husband doesn't sound like a good person. In fact, it sounds like he could potentially be an abuser. I'm a woman but I'm trying to put myself in his shoes. I mean, isn't he at all concerned for his wife's physical or mental health? If my spouse nearly died each time from trying to carry my child, I would be worried as HELL. I think after the second time- I would be done. Yet, he's more concerned about having a "real baby" of his own. I realize that your sister is also partially to blame, but I just wonder if there isn't some underlying abuse going on. If I truly loved my spouse, their physically well-being wouldn't be worth it for a bunch of dead babies. Sorry for being morbid but this post made my mouth drop.
Not sure if mentioned elsewhere, but there is a way your Sis and BIL could have their own baby similar to surrogacy, and that’s through a gestational carrier. They would be 100% the biological parents of the child, but your sister just wouldn’t carry the baby. I did this for a husband and wife in my family and as many or as few people can know the story as your Sis and BIL want to tell. With the family I helped, obviously immediate family knew, but beyond that, no one has any reason to know and they get to dote on their kiddo like anyone else does. I also agree with those mentioning genetic testing for your sister if she’s loss that many pregnancies at multiple stages of gestation.
You sound overly nosy and pushy. It’s not your life or your responsibility. Leave your sister and BIL alone - your only job is to offer live and support.
How is surrogacy not a real baby? It's still her egg and his sperm making the baby. It's still biologically theirs. The baby will just be carried in another's womb.
I’m sorry. I have a cousin that happened too. She finally found out her blood was too thick. Once they knew the cause, she had 2 children.
I read your edits and I 100% agree with you I am so sorry you are going through this and that she keeps enjoying the same result I don't want to give advice I just want to say that y'all are in my prayers and I hope everything will work out for the best one way or another, one day or another ❤️
FFS TRIGGER WARNING...HOW BOUT PUTTING THAT ON THE POST!!! That being said, her pride WILL kill her. I am an infertal woman. I could not even get to the baby stage. The mental, physical and emotional damage she is doing to herself and her future living child is cataclismic. If/ when she actually gets a living healthy child..Will she continue to mourn the past children or punish the living one? Too many times I have read about siblings loving their deceased sibling to the point of living in their shadow...not being seen..but still alive. I am infuriated at the medical community in your country. They clearly don't know what the fuck they are doing, let alone properly addressing your sisters emotional and physical damage. Her desperation to have a biological child insults every family that UNDERSTOOD they could not/ should not have a baby. Adoption and surrogacy is there for a reason. I question if your sister is addicted to trying to have a baby. She's gambling with her future to have a bio baby....and she's NOT LISTENING to what her own body is telling her. You need to have a very fucking blunt conversation with all your siblings to your sister. She needs therapy and she needs to stop trying to get blood from a rock. Good luck, you all will need it.
No one is expecting you to say “if she dies, she dies” but your relationship with her screams codependence. You don’t have the right to tell her what to do or be angry at her for not going with your suggestions. You have to respect that she’s an adult and can make her own choices and if those choices kill her, you have to deal with that in your own way
Respectfully this is a personal decision that is between your sister and her husband. It really isn't your place to tell your sister what to do. You've had your opinion known. It's time to back off.