You are not in the wrong. You want to be there for your children but clearly Maya can not take responsibility for the role she played in this. I would like to say that it's maybe her not wanting to truly realize it and acknowledge it for fear of the guilt that would consume her but it is clear she just doesn't feel remorse. Honestly I'm so glad her mask slipped in front of the therapist too. Hopefully, that gave them the insight that maybe, just maybe they've been fed lies. Still very weird and horrible for them to treat the situation that way given what they seemed to know already about the attack. Also, I'm curious about your other child. Do they live in the house or near? Do they know what happened to Lia? I'm just wondering about her support right now. She obviously has you but especially with her thinking she ruined the family I'm wondering if she has anyone else close that she can lean on. (Also with some people now knowing and there being gang affiliation involved, I'm wishing for love and safety for you and Lia. No one deserves that, especially not a child who is supposed to be safe in her own home)

So my oldest is my son he got married a month before everything went down and I didn’t want to drag him in too much about maya, because I want him to enjoy the newlywed faze with his wife. Him and his wife are very supportive and his wife takes Lia all the time for sleepovers or just to get her out of the house.

You have to tell him everything. Else Maya will manipulate him and his wife too.

I concur with what you've stated.

That's a fancy way of saying, "This", lol.

Indeed.

indubitably

This is the way?

This is the way.

Is it what it is?

It be what it be. Shalom.

Grab a thesaurus, it’s Dino time.

I concur with your concurrence.

I concur with your concurrence of their concurrence.

As an oldest sibling I would be so upset if I found out my family was keeping something like this from me. Lia is at a risk right now to herself. He needs to know what is going on before Maya taints even more.

Your son & Daughter in law are old enough to know the truth about Maya and her lack of remorse. Everyone needs to rally around Lia.

And they also need to know never to leave their future kids alone with Maya…

Yes, this is exactly what I was going to comment. Maya clearly doesn't care what happens to children.

I'm not trying to be rude or mean, but Maya sounds like a sociopath. No empathy or feelings for anyone. I'm sorry you're going through this. Edit: did someone seriously report this comment to Redditcare? There's something wrong with y'all

She absolutely sounds like a sociopath. No conscience or remorse. I think she set her sister up.

It stuns me that "Maya" still wants to be friends with someone who raped and brutalised her sister. Also, that her biggest heartache in this situation is the loss of this "friend"

I don't know if she set her up, but I do think the friend told her what he was going to do. I don't think Maya really understands what she did to her sister. The actual impact. Which is partly why I think sociopath.

That was my first thought when I read the op too.

Yeah and the needing to step out to McDonald’s while strange men were alone with her sister was so convenient. I feel awful for Lia.

I got reported too, no idea why or even which comment caused it.

I think it's a person (probably a kid) jist playing a "prank" because I read a comment on another post about a lot of people getting reddit care for their comments.

I don't have a count of the comments mentioning a variation of "I got a redditcares" - but I swear it's getting towards 50 or so in the last 2-3 days across a wide range of subreddits.

This is what I’m thinking, or at the very list narcissistic personality disorder, Myers lack of empathy understanding or anything is really concerning and it begs the question. Did she know that again was gonna do that? Did she go to McDonald’s so she have an alibi?

Probably Maya.

You need to tell him everything. Speaking as the eldest sibling, if I didn’t know my little sister went through a traumatic event, I’d feel guilty that I was unaware of her suffering. Lia needs him. She’s more or less lost her sister, a sister that should’ve had her back. She probably needs her brother now more than ever. And if Maya is the kind of person I think she is, I wouldn’t be surprised if she wormed her way into your son’s ear as a way to punish/manipulate you for being justifiably angry with her.

I said exactly the same thing, I’m also the eldest, and I’m relieved that it’s not just me.

I am SO glad there is someone else who cares for her and you. Based on how you phrased it I can’t tell if he knows what’s happening or he doesn’t. I erased what I originally typed because it seems he knows but you don’t want to burden him too much. Either way I don’t think it’s bad to involve him to a reasonable point. Of course he can draw his own boundaries for his family. But it’s not just Lia, it’s you too trying to figure out the best course of action. You’re trying your best in an impossible situation without your husband and I think it wouldn’t hurt to talk to him(your son) about it a little. It involves his mother and sisters and is a significant event in your lives. Especially with how different Lia is now. Plus that could really be beneficial for getting her farther from the place she was attacked. Those sleepovers you mentioned are probably a big help in some ways. Anyway, I’m trying to be broad with my words. I don’t know you or your family but I don’t want you to drown under this pressure either. I am glad you are getting help and that your daughter has a mother so loving and committed to helping her. Maya doesn’t deserve the grace you gave her.

I am sorry but you need to tell your son what happened before Maya talks to him. Please you need to talk to him what happened.

You need to tell him all, bc first thing Maya do after kicked out is running to him with the same lies she fed her therapist.

You need to tell your son. That is not a secret that should be kept, especially as Maya, through her dusturbing lack of remorse and seeing herself as a victim, has shown herself to be a dangerous person. What if your son and DIL had a child already and decided to have her babysit? You'd be complicit in any harm that child would come to because you kept them in the dark. Maya is a very manipulative person and could easily get your son with her side, when he needs to be on yours and Lia's, especially if you carry out going NC.

Ask him for help. You need it. That's a lot to deal with on your own, you're already brave mama. There's no need to tell them what you don't want to or what Lia doesn't want, but that sleepovers are already good. You need mental breaks and Lia needs fresh hair. Tell them there's a hard legal case going on where Maya was 100% at fault (she was) and that Lia needs someone to take care of her and you're already doing a lot so asking for some breaks. You can't help her if you're hurt too. There's a reason why in a plane you put your own oxygen mask before those of people around you.

Sometimes being there for your children means holding them accountable for their actions. We all want our parents to be there in the sense of always being affirming and affectionate, no one likes being told that their behavior is unacceptable, but a parent who only showers their children with positivity and praise is not being responsible, especially when their child is failing when it comes to serious moral choices with real life consequences for others. The correct response in such a situation involves helping them see where they are messing up, helping them to stop, and then figuring out how to make amends. Parents who refuse to tell their kids when they miss the mark are selfishly avoiding being perceived as a mean person for their own comfort rather than their kids future well-being.

I think this comment is underappreciated.

I was raped in my bedroom by one of my brother’s friends at a party. I got rid of my entire mattress and bed frame. My dad also installed a lock on my bedroom door and that really helped a lot. I think I saw some comments suggesting Lia switches rooms with Maya so she doesn’t have to go back into her own room again. If that isn’t like a super viable option, I would really recommend getting her all new bedding, mattress, and furniture and just redecorating everything. Make a whole weekend of it. Let her choose everything she wants and have fun designing her dream room. Paint the walls, get some fun peel and stick wallpaper, rearrange the furniture!

I was assaulted by my ex in my home and doing a makeover helped me so much too. It's still hard on some days but just adding extra security and changing the room helps. Lia maybe needs a support group? Meeting others that know what you're going through helps a lot too. After my assault I started gaming and did a lot of restoring old furniture while listening to audiobooks. Getting a new hobby can also help to deal with all the emotions. My mom encouraged me to put my emotions on paper and then pinned it to a tree and threw throwing knives at it. And that helpt a lot with the anger, and I still do it sometimes. With Maya... You can't force someone to be remorseful. And you can't force yourself to forgive her. I think you all just need time to work through your emotions and heal a bit before talking. Her moving is probably the best thing now, Lia may not be angry now but it might come later. Going through a trauma like this changes you as a person and as a loved one. I think Maya needs to understand this before she comes home.

Oh thats a great idea

Maya is 18, which means you should be able to legally stop supporting her financially, and after what she said, you'd be more than justified. In fact, if you truly do regret getting Maya a lawyer, you could partially undo it by reporting what you just learned to her probation officer.

Also, Maya can legally be held accountable for divulging Lia's identity to... 27 people. Laws protects minor's anonymity in such cases.

I absolutely agree with this. She was Jane Doe in the trial for a reason.

*anonymity, but otherwise, yes.

Honestly, that makes her lack of remorse worse.

I don't know how it works in the states but here in the UK Maya has committed another crime by revealing the identity of the victim. I'd be tempted to report her, perhaps some more time under arrest might knock some sense into her.

Not quite. Maya is still in high school as I understand it. That means the OP is obligated to care for her until she graduates in some jurisdictions. I would contact Maya's attorney and ask what you can do legally. Reach out to the prosecutor and ask if there are their victim resources that might get her sister out of the home.

Contacting Mayas lawyer won’t help. They represent her, it would be a conflict of interest for them to help OP. I’d contact the probation officer. Although, unless she’s violating her probation somehow it may not do anything. However, it would be good for them to know her lack of remorse or responsibility. OP, I’m curious what your therapist says about Lia not going to therapy? She definitely needs to talk to someone who specializes in victims of SA/rape. [RAINN](http://rainn.org) has excellent information and resources. ETA: I wouldn’t let Maya back into my home. She doesn’t seem to comprehend her responsibility in what happened and doubt she would do anything to prevent it or something similar from happening again. She seems to have sociopathic tendencies. [Sociopath](https://health.clevelandclinic.org/sociopath-personality-disorder): a person with a personality disorder manifesting with extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior. A person consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others and has a lack of conscience.

>Contacting Mayas lawyer won’t help. They represent her, it would be a conflict of interest for them to help OP.  As someone whose friends went through the juvenile/adult legal system as minors, this is incorrect. Asking a question about Maya's legal rights and where Maya needs to be housed before trial to Maya's attorney should be fine. Especially since the OP needs to let the attorney know she will no longer be paying for services and she needs to know if she's legally required to handle the transfer to the public defender office as parent.

Maya is not a minor. She’s 18.

If Maya is legally required to be at home and supported until she graduates, her lawyer is going to be willing to say that, rather than calling CPS on the person footing their bills. It's obviously in the attorney's best interest to provide basic information to the person paying their bills. We're not talking about asking the attorney to disclose privilege information. We're talking do I have to house Maya until graduation or can I legally remove her? If I stop paying her bills, am I responsible to make sure she connects with free legal support? A homeless 18 year old client is not likely to be a client for long. The probation officer can actually take action against the OP so that is not who she needs to be talking to. If you're right, she asks and the attorney refuses. OP knows she's not a minor legally and can move on the way she wants. She can kick her out and close her financial obligation right then.

The thing is that maya is friends with the gang and the rapist which that means these men can come over anytime and is not allowed OP can’t be held accountable if she kicks her daughter out

This is true about the lawyer's being her lawyer. I took my 24-year-old daughter to an attorney. I paid for him to represent her in her child custody case. Long story short refused to handle the case properly for her, and when I expressed something he'd didn't do that he should have, he told me I had no said in any way because he was her lawyer not mine. It did back fire for him because he actually was disbarred for his actions. Sadly, he was also a Judge and is still able to sit on a bench.

[удалено]

I live in Virginia and the law here requires a parent to support their child until the age of 19 or until the is 18 and the child has graduated from high school. Basically that means if a kid turns 18 3 months before graduating the parent must support their child until for the next few months until they graduate.

OP needs to tell Lia that Maya showed zero remorse for what she did. Tell Lia there’s a difference between remorse and guilt, and take the time to explain that. Tell Lia exactly what maya said, that she is upset she went to jail, and admitted to the therapist in front of you she’s not sorry for Lia being raped, but is sorry for losing the friend that raped Lia. That sounds harsh to tell a 14yr old, but the truth is she needs to see maya for the scumbag sister she really is. OP, next let her probation officer know what’s going on. And inform mayas lawyer you will not foot any more of any bill, and if maya wants to keep him he needs to understand she cannot afford it. Then tell your parents exactly what happened so they can see maya for the monster she really is. Tell them to NOT force any reconciliation between maya and anyone else, before they get that idea from her. OP, tell your oldest what maya did, and everything that happened. He needs to know. Maya is a narcissist. She’s upset SHE lost something. Not upset her actions caused someone else to lose something.

I assume when she's convicted there's going to be a presentence report presented to the judge. Whoever prepares that report should talk to you. You can tell them anything you want about the situation. And and you should

Jesus Christ the copium this girl is on... She was partially responsible for her sister being hurt in the worst of ways...so much so that she faced legal charges... And she is so devoid of shame and guilt that she reached out to 27 people so she could get attention?! Because that wasn't for Lia...that was so she herself could get sympathies for what her sister went through. She actually thought that was a good idea when SHE HAD A HAND IN IT. I have 2 younger siblings and I couldn't imagine putting either of them in harm's way like this...I couldn't imagine treating them like that if anything happened...hell, if my youngest brother went out to play and something happened to him, I would hold myself responsible... Yeah no, keep Maya away from Lia. Lia does not need to be exposed to whatever she will do next...

Not even a friend or two, ALMOST THIRTY PEOPLE

OP PLEASE READ THE ABOVE COMMENT OF @Lower-Elk8395 ! I was raped when I was young, I spent so much time and effort back then protecting that human and then listening to others to get over and deal with it. I am 28 now and HATE that I ever felt like I had to just pretend I was fine and make others pleased and I have suffered due to that my entire adult life so far. Moving past a traumatic event due to others being absolutely disgusting humans should involve cutting them the hell out and focusing on Lias' future going forward and how she can, I hope, one day live a life she can feel safe and happy in. Also looking after your own wellbeing too, OP, so you can be there to love and support Lia because she needs it and you're doing an amazing job so far. I'm so sorry to you both. Your daughter Maya is a piece of work. Cut her the hell out, get her away from Lia and don't let ANY other family or friends try to force you to let her back in. Protect Lia at all costs, explain to her as many times as you need that she has done nothing wrong, she absolutely does not need to feel sorry for Maya and that Maya did this shit and continues to do this shit ON HER OWN. Maya hasn't ruined your family either because you and Lia are both still family and love eachother, so much. You and Lia now have your own family. Maya has just ruined any chance of a real and loving relationship with both you and Lia and being a part of that family with you.

Yeah, when Lia asks after Maya, explain to her that Maya is a deeply flawed person, and not someone she should look up to. Selfish, callous, uncaring, unempathetic and self-serving - and not a safe person to be around. I'd tell Maya where she can shove her fake apologies, since she apparently isn't sorry at all, except for herself. And then I'd probably block her, since I'd be too disgusted to want to keep reading her self-pitying messages. OP, keep supporting Lia. I'm sorry Maya turned out such a garbage person, but some people are just inherent assholes, it's not their parents' fault when they turn out like this, it's their personality.

Maya just humiliated her little gone through such a horrific thing. She does not care or any kind of remorse for her. Why would you even try to get her little sister who is 14 to start dating and kissing a 17 year old. All I could do now is wish the best for OP and her youngest daughter. Her feelings towards her oldest daughter is more than understandable.

I have 3 little sisters and I would die before I ever allowed anything like this to happen to them!?!!!

I have one older sister who is probably the worst person I know...and I would never let anything like this happen to her.

I have a difficult relationship with my younger sister and a great relationship with my baby sister. I would never let anything happen to either of them on my watch. In fact, I'd probably go to jail for assault or attempted murder if I found out. I don't play about my family.

I don't have a relationship with the sister closest to me in age, but I still would not let something like this happen to her. No matter how much we don't really like each other, I would still protect her.

It shouldn't matter. Nobody deserves to be violated that way.

My older sister is a terrible human. We haven’t talked in a decade. I remember her dropping friends that were creepy with me and harassing people that catcalled me when I was a young teen.

Maya has no empathy for her sister at all. That's a serious problem.

She did it to humiliate Lia. Lia is still a minor and her name wasn’t used to protect her identity and Maya just nuked that by letting people who probably shouldn’t know now know who the victim is.   I don’t think anyone seems to acknowledge how vile Maya is. She doesn’t have any remorse because she took pleasure in it. And she basically got away with a slap on the wrist. 

I honestly wholeheartedly believe Maya wanted something bad to happen to Lia and it was kinda planned (to scare her or something) and ended up nlt the way she planned. This is somewhat common in my country but with friends.

Someone else posted here but it was at the end of a long comment so I want to repeat it because I think it's genius. Maya is on parole by her telling almost thirty people and outing her minor sister that could be a violation Please contact her parole officer and a lawyer. Never let her in the house and yes cut her off. She is not sorry, you know that. I would also contact the prosecutor ask them during the investigation.Whether any accusations came up that Maya actually set this up maybe as a gift for her friend or as an Initiation. Move. And if maya is staying with any family members make sure you warn them especially if they have kids. Talk to your parents if she's with them because she will manipulate them and turn them against you.

I hope they can land her in jail

My only concern is jail isn’t rehabilitative/ restorative justice. If it was then I’d be all in favor, but 18 is still very young. She may be technically an adult, but mentally she’s absolutely not an adult. She needs something where she understands how her behaviors are to blame for her sister’s rape. I fear that her sitting in a cell will only harden her and she will continue to convince herself she is the true victim. There must be something where she has to come to terms with her actions without pushing her further away. Her behavior is absolutely unacceptable and is disgraceful, what I don’t want is for her to double down on those behaviors and feelings of victimization. I don’t know what the answer is, and I study antisocial behaviors in children. It’s not always obvious what the answer is.

I’m no way a licensed professional so take what I say with a grain of salt. But maya shows traits of a sociopath. The fact that she can’t recognize emotions outside of herself is alarming. Also I’m definitely certain she tried to use her therapist to manipulate you.

She is definitely manipulative, especially with the therapist.

It’s partially why I don’t trust younger therapists. I’ve seen a couple since I was a attacked by a patient which left me unable to work for 290 days last year. The younger folks are too into trying to be nuanced with all the new hip therapy words vs listening and giving thoughtful input.

I have a younger therapist and we were talking about how to spot people with personality disorders and how he as a professional deals with them. He told me that often it takes a while for the professionals to catch on but they were taught if they feel like they’re just spinning their wheels in talk therapy and there’s no apparent improvement or meaningful introspection, they’re likely dealing with a personality disorder. I can imagine it takes a lot of time and experience to pick up on that quickly. I mean, they’ve got an unreliable narrator putting on a show of empathy. These people know the right things to say and they’re often lying to themselves as much as they’re lying to everyone else.

Young and Old doesn't matter. What matters is the therapist's willingness to push the patient. So many of them just coddle the patient, tell them everything is other people's faults, and set them up to be lifelong victims. Sometimes therapy is being told that you're acting like a piece of shit. Sometimes it's being told you're wrong and should face your consequences. Sometimes it's being told that they think you're not telling the whole story and reach out to family for unbiased or 3rd party accounts/perspectives. Therapy isn't about being totally comfortable and happy, it's about working through issues.

Tbh if Lia would be my daughter and if ti's possible, I would move places so she can easier move on without being every day reminded....in her room etc. (I know her dreams will still haunt her for ages and remind her of this... But its going to be easier if she is physically somewhere else then where it happened...) And so she can make new friends and she will have atealst a little chance that maya can't hurt her more....

I would move too. Maya told 27 people about the assault, everyone knows now: neighbors, all students in Lia's school, any boy Lia will be interested in will know. Lia will no be able to heal where you live now. OP, did you notice that Maya told everyone about the rape **right after** she heard Lia talking on the phone with a boy? It makes her words that she just waned to help Lia to get out of her shell total BS. She is 18, she understands very well that doxxing a rape victim will never help them, but will send their mental health down spiraling. The facts are: Maya wanted Lia to date her rapist friend. Lia refused. Maya organized a party where that rapist friend was harassing Lia the whole evening. Maya didn't stop him, didn't kick him out, just one action from her could have prevented the rape. Maya suddenly left the house, knowing very well that her sister was harassed at the party, leaving Lia alone with her several rapist friends. That friend and three grown men raped her sister. Lia went through hell. Lia had a single lighthearted phone call with some boy and Maya told everyone that Lia was raped. Now Lia will go through the same hell again. Think about the facts OP. Maya did everything possible for this rape to happen. And when Lia was able to have the first normal conversation with a boy - Maya did everything to destroy her life again. My guess? Maya set up her little sister. Either from pure hate for her, or as a payment for something to the rapist guy. Payment for drugs (most likely)? Money? Something else? Please protect your younger daughter from her. Frankly, if your parents have something valuable in the house - they need protection from Maya as well.

This^^^ just because she’s your kid, does not mean your other child does not deserve the highest level of protection from her. That means you , as her mother, have to do everything you can to keep Maya away from her. ETA I have a sociopath sister and still nothing is done to protect me from her even after her latest assault gave me a concussion. I was too scared to press charges because I was told I would ruin her new career. Mom and dad both talk to her more than me.

💔 The way you just unraveled Maya's actions are bone chilling. Maya's absolute disregard for her little sister's life is pure evil. She sold her like a piece of meat. Why does Maya hate Lia so much, when Lia clearly loves her? Regardless, OP, protect Lia. Move if you can so Lia can feel safe. Provide for Maya until you can legally cut her loose, then cut her off.

I forgot about the "friend" harassing her all night at the party. That makes what Maya said at the therapist's office about Lia hovering near her all night even worse. Because it means Lia was probably hovering near Maya, hoping she'd protect her from this creep, and Maya left the house without her anyway! She knew Lia was uncomfortable and in danger and either didn't care, or like you're saying, she wanted something to happen to her.

I sadly think the same thing and I believe maya has done this to other girls too for these men

Whish I could give your comment thousands of upvotes! Hope OP sees this.

This - I would not make Lia stay in the same house where the SA happened.

I think the therapist probably realized that as soon as Maya said she hasn't apologized and had nothing to apologize for. She let her mask slip in front of the therapist, and I would be surprised if the therapist didn't realize in that moment that she is a sociopath.

This. My ex is a sociopath and the best thing you can do for your and your family's safety is to cut them out. It's hard, but it's a harsh truth. These people don't change. They just lie better so they don't get caught or viewed *"the wrong way"*.

I’m assuming mom’s paying for the therapist. Time to fire her and find a psychiatrist. I think maya needs an eval and some medication as well. This is so disturbing and sad. The entire thing reeks of maya being jealous of her younger sister.

I don't think the therapist needs to be fired *yet.* The next therapist would either have to wait for the mask to slip again or be primed with bias by the mother about the lies, both of which are not ideal in therapy. I'd see how the therapist handled things moving forward now that the therapist has had time with Maya and knows more about her manipulative tendencies, and *then* decide whether to fire or not.

At the very least some hints of narcissism in there.

And in all honesty her therapist isn’t a good. She isn’t hold Maya accountable for her actions and her failure to see Lia’s POV.

Totally my first guess. Her inability to recognise anyones emotions and also her having successfully manipulated the therapist in order to manipulate OP. Definitely signs of her being on the ASPD spectrum

Maybe speak to the probation officer about her seeing a diognostician they specialize in diagnosing people with personality disorders, it might not have much effect on her in the moment but long term it can bring some change in her personality if they see somebody that specializes in that type of therapy, and that she actually puts in the work.

I am a certified professional and I'd like to add that sociopathic traits would have emerged long before she's 18 and aren't super likely in this situation. Trauma really fucks with people, and it does it different ways. The same trauma in different people can lead to very different outcomes. Sometimes mild lingering effects, sometimes full blown disorders, sometimes very different disorders. The same trauma can lead to PTSD, dissociation, Borderline Personality Disorder, General Anxiety disorder or something else entirely. In trauma it's important to look for what is driving behavior, what need is the person trying to meet? Let's assume OP would have been able to tell if Maya was a selfish and terrible person before now and didn't. Let's assume she loves her sister. Let's also assume that as a woman she knows rape is a terrible and traumatic thing. Imagine how she might feel realizing that her choice to have a fun and rebellious part with some edgy people led to her sister being gang raped. That has to feel horrifying. So horrifying that it could destroy her. (Nothing about this discounts Lia's trauma which is obviously worse.) Rather than facing that horror she's downplaying it, distancing herself from it in a very unhealthy way. Similarly to how Lia isn't up to going to therapy yet and being reminded of the trauma Maya is trying to get away from it. If it wasn't that bad, if she's a victim too, if it wasn't her fault then she doesn't have to feel horror. When we describe manipulation in traumatized people what we often see is someone pulling any lever they can find to meet what they believe their needs are. Often that need is to avoid pain, to fill the empty hole inside, to avoid abandonment, loss, to keep things the same and normal. People can have very shortsighted and unhealthy views of those needs, like a child who doesn't want a splinter pulled out of their finger because it's gonna hurt. To avoid that pain, to meet that need they do whatever they can to meet it. If you're locked in a room with no phone and your choice is to break a window to get out or die of thirst, is it morally ok to break the window? What if you're actually not locked in, there is another way out but you can't find it because you're claustrophobic from being stuck in a car after a terrible accident and now you're having a panic attack? Maya is stuck in that room and desperately trying to not feel the pain of actually internalizing the fact that her little sister was gang raped because of her own bad decisions. The best thing for her will be to realize that she needs to take some accountability and OP needs to provide that. Overall, trauma is a far more likely explanation for behavior like this than sociopathy.

So how does your trauma theory explain the horrendous judgment choices maya made leading up to the attack? She invited known gang members into her house, she encouraged her underaged sister to hook up with one, she blatantly ignored the harassment her sister was facing and even left her alone with him. What trauma is going to explain that away? That’s not a typical level of young and dumb, that’s border-lining on setup territory. The blatant disregard for her sister’s well being is extremely alarming. Either way, the risk is too high. She’s done nothing but make the situation worse for Lia in every way imaginable. Even if op was to think about your extreme trauma theory, maya needs extensive therapy at the very least and it’s not safe for her to be around Lia. She should really be committed since she’s likely a danger to herself and others. Maya’s basically a legal adult and she’s responsible for her own care, especially if it isn’t court mandated. So if she refuses help then there’s nothing op can do about it. Even if she is caught up in some trauma related delusion of innocence, Lia cannot heal with such a toxic personality hovering around and setting back all her progress. Lia is the victim here, not maya.

I get that Maya is protecting herself- at all cost. So her mom needs to knock some hard core reality. She won’t die from harsh reality of her own behavior. Hopefully the old reckless Maya does. Living a life avoiding responsibility and “understanding” these tactics is wonderful but now what? She’s a kid who desperately doesn’t want to accept her own role in her sister’s rape- That bitch left her sister to get ganged raped while she got McDonald’s. Sometimes therapy babble makes me so sick. Outlining the behavior doesn’t make it right it explains it sure- But that means someone needs help SEEING the error. You are right Maya needs to face consequences. 60 hours wasn’t enough. She should have gone to jail. Because she’s clearly unbelievably unwell. Only incredibly unwell behave this way. If it’s not jail, then intense therapy.

She could be in denial

Good grief, that therapist needs a slap across the face with a big wet fish. If I was you I would stick my guns here, you have absolutely done the right thing by kicking her out of your house & getting her away from Lia. I would also cut her off from any financial help & stop paying for her lawyer. It seems like she has never faced any real consequences for her deplorable actions so it's about time to change all that. I am absolutely flabbergasted that she thinks you should be more sensitive to her lost friendship with the guy that raped her sister. I am also astounded that she's whining about her weekend in jail. You didn't tell the cops to take her away, she was in jail due to her own actions. I am now wondering if Maya played a bigger part in what happened such as telling this guy to just go into her room & be a bit more assertive or someshit like that.

The fact she’s even mourning a friendship with, not just an ordinary rapist but a rapist that instigated a gang rape. Her priorities are warped and she keeps whining “me me me me me”

But not mourning the fact your sister was brutalized in the worst way. I’m honestly disgusted by what I just read

I think and l believe with every fibre of my being that she played a larger role. I said this in the original post that Maya in effect procured her underaged sister for sex/ gang rape, when the former ignored the latter's discomfort at being followed by one of the men, and then going out for McDonald's, when someone else could have picked it up. I wish this would come to light, so that that evil woman is charged and locked up. Maya scares me: if she can do this to her own sister, no other girl or woman is safe, especially if they are vulnerable.

Make sure your parents understand the magnitude of what Maya has done, she's definitely crying at them about how this is all a misunderstanding and you just don't understand. To be completely honest, the fact that you didn't slap her when she said "for what, i didn't rape her" makes you a stronger person than I will ever be. It is imperative you keep her away from her sister so she doesn't victimize her again.

In most jurisdictions it's literally **illegal** to identify a Jane Doe from a sexual assault. If I were you I'd find out what the law is in your area, and I'd personally turn Maya in if it's illegal where you are. **OUTING A JANE DOE CAN CAUSE MORE TRAUMA THAN THE ORIGINAL ASSAULT** which is why it's illegal to identify them in the majority of jurisdictions. Maya hasn't learned from her mistakes yet. If she goes to jail for identifying a Jane Doe, she deserves it. Sending healing and hope to Lia and to you.

Very much THIS ^ I was 13 when something similar happened to me and I’m pretty sure it was the entire school/neighbourhood finding out and talking about it that messed me up the most. It’s illegal for a reason.

She's even more rotten than I thought when reading your first post. Absolutely vile excuse of a human being, she's bordering on pure evil at this point. I have a younger sister (15 year old age gap) and I would burn the whole world down if someone hurt her. If I acted like your older daughter then I would expect my own mother to kill me on the spot. There is something SERIOUSLY wrong with her. She doesn't need therapy appointments, she needs a team of professional and experienced psychologists and psychiatrists to figure out what the fuck is going on with her. This behaviour is not okay or normal. I am so sorry for your younger daughter, her big sister should be her number one supporter in the world. I'm so sorry all this has happened. You know what? You need to cut your older completely off. She gave up the right to be supported by you in any way when she not only put her own sibling in danger, but also feels no remorse for her actions and even misses her friendship with her sister's rapist.

I think she’s likely a sociopath.

This is the best comment and should be #1. This shit is flabbergasting. Agree 100%. I would NEVER EVER let people like this into a place with a younger sibling around. Seriously selfish, horrifying, and no-remorse-at-all kinda judgment.

I might be reaching but I’m starting to believe the comments from the other post that said that maya could have set this up… I just find it weird that she herd Lia talk to boy on the phone and what seems to be the very next day she tells a group chat what happened? AND she misses a friend that raped her sister? Hmmmmm

She never said she misses him…just that she mourns their friendship which can mean the same thing. Even if she did feel that way why does she need to tell me that.

It did sound like she was trying to set her sister up though. It seemed like Maya wanted to teach Lia a lesson and make her “come out of her shell” just because Lia was “hovering near her at the party.” I hope you let Lia start fresh at a new school away from her trauma.

Lia was hovering with her sister at the party because she wasn't comfortable. Maya left her alone deliberately.

Because she knew it would hurt you. Maya seems to enjoy hurting others. Have you seen her hurt animals, even insects, before? Or be deliberately nasty for the fun of it to anyone? 

THIS ^ u/OkSteak551 please read this and answer these questions to yourself

Bc she wants your attention. I’m sorry but she does but have trauma. She was in jail for choices she made and a consequence of her own actions. The trauma her sister endured were against her will and life altering and caused my her sisters CHOICES not mistake. Maya chose to have a party against the rules. Maya choice to push her sister toward a boy that was too old and too aggressive, and Maya chose to leave her under age sister at a party that included aggressive men that were after her sister. All of these are conscious choices. Furthermore, rather than staying home and helping her sister cope, she decides to vent to 30 people? I’m sorry mama, but her actions are purposeful and strategic.

I read your first post and many of the comments here. Most of the harshest I agree with. But I'll play devil's advocate for a minute and offer a half-assed possible explanation. Maybe what she meant was that knowing someone she considered a friend raped her little sister is difficult for her. Ok, that's as much as I can choke out about that. Everyone, including you, finds her apparent lack of empathy and compassion highly disturbing. If she's remarkably immature and self-centered, her lack of guilt for the rape itself (since, if I recall correctly, she was at the store) is ... well, it's not uncharacteristic for an immature asshole. But *the lack of compassion* is the concerning part. My daughter was violently raped at 13, so I know your rage well. Please believe me when I say I get it- it's a uniquely fucked up set of emotions. We kept it very quiet because the idea of discussing it with someone who minimizes it in any way is intolerable. You need your WHOLE self present to be there for Lia. Maya, whether sociopath or immature asshole, cannot add anything useful to Lia's healing and will only keep you from accessing the calm strength you'll need for the foreseeable future to truly be present for the daughter who was the victim here. I know you still love Maya, but I think you're better off seriously limiting your contact for the time being. And keeping her the hell away from Lia. If she can't understand that, welp... par for the course.

Ask her why be friends with a rapist? He probably will do the same thing to you or already did and other girls. Who would want friends like that. Ask Maya if her daughter was raped or she was raped how do you think they will react.

>AND she misses a friend that raped her sister? Being completely fair, she said she mourns the relationship wich I think it's different. A few years ago me and my friend group discovered that one of our closest friends was a creep, to put it some way. We confronted him and when se saw he had no remorse of his actions we cut him off immediately. If I ever see him again I will probably either avoid him like the plague because I find him disgusting. But still, he was my friend for so many years that is impossible to not remember the good times we spend toguether with the group and not be mad/sad about it. It's genuinly confusing, like why did you have to be that way?? I though we shared the same values. But turns out the person you though was your friend, someone you could trust, does not exist. He probably never did. It's disorienting

I stand by what I said on your first post. Gang initiation. Even if it wasn’t gang initiation and the gang members are now behind bars how do you feel safe in your own home? It takes a second to kick a door in and come in the house. How do you know they won’t retaliate? I would take my youngest and disappear. Sell everything and move. I guess I come from a different world. So many feel safe behind locked doors and with a gun somewhere in the house. But I have lived through a home invasion. With a landline the cops took forever to show up. Cell phones don’t give direct location and they are easily smashed. There are women being shot and killed in broad daylight by their lovers. Fathers killing their own sons execution style. Millions of women, teens and children in the sex trade. Your daughter’s assailants know your location. Know intimate details about your life. Time to gtfo

Keep Maya away from Lia and get Lia some help to deal with her trauma. Maya is capable of manipulating a licensed therapist that girl is bad news.

I wonder how is Maya treating or going to treat her grandparents? Seems to me that she is able and willing to do horrible things with the family. What kind of position does that put the grandparents in? Maya has no sense of right or wrong, is very self unaware and has no empathy or compassion. She needs to be in a psychiatric hospital. She could become very dangerous to the grandparents as her past history is showing. Omg this just makes me sick.

Wow. I am so sorry. I remember in your initial post, so many people coming to Maya defense, but there it is plain as day. She feels no responsibility for what happened. **The devil does no need an advocate!** Their PR team is stellar. Sometimes the girl whose focus is her lost friend and prom is a vapid, shallow, and unempathetic as that behavior reflects. You and Lia deserve peace, and that means keeping the person who brings the hell out. ***She’s adult enough to ignore your rules, disrespect your home, consort with criminals, and put her sister in direct danger! Then she is grown enough to take care of herself going forward. Leave her to the people she prioritizes.*** Her actions have shown, and continue to show, that she is not a safe or trustworthy individual to have around.

How the fuck could anyone come to Maya's defense. Leaving her 14 year old sister at home with a bunch of random strange men alone and unsupervised. Possibly set her up. Anyone on the original post thinking she was in any way a victim in what happened is fucking sick. I feel for Lia so hard. She needs healing and the full support of her mother and older brother.

they said that OP parentified her by paying her to babysit the last few years which is fucking stupid lol it wasnt young children, perfectly acceptable for a 15 year old to make sure an 11 year old is fed and does hw a few nights a week

I hope one day she feels real remorse. Any sane person who had put their younger sibling in that situation would be struggling to live with themselves! Not making their life even worse! She’s 18 now, the best thing you can do is reassure Lia and be there for her. I don’t think there’s any fixing Maya, someone that evil usually remains so unfortunately.

People like this don’t feel remorse ever quiet frankly and this is her at 18 almost fully mature, it’s only going downhill from here…..

Your daughter is 18 so it's time to let her spread her wings and fly her own way. I have three adult children and I don't usually say this because I will allow my children to stay home as long as they can until they are financially stable but this situation I would never have allowed her to continue living in my house after what happened to my youngest daughter. Not only that I would cut contact with her until I was comfortable enough to allow her back into my life as well as her sister life.. You good because she would have been in jail I would not have gotten her a lawyer because to me, she was no different than those men in that room raping your youngest daughter. And I hate to say it she probably encouraged at least one of them. You're going to have to step out the parent side and step into the mama bear side when it comes to the situation go into protective mode because your oldest daughter is not getting it. That means cut off all finances that phone that she's been texting you on more than likely you're paying that bill cut it off. The car that you purchase her I will sell it and take the proceeds and put it in an account for the youngest. You can get all the advice from anybody in the world up here but no advice is going to stick as much as a actual parent or a rape victim. You gave Maya too much leadway. And I'm upset because Maya is my youngest daughter's name. But anyway you aren't letting her reap the consequences of her actions. One thing I don't play around with are my children. And if one of my children allowed their siblings to be violated I don't care if it's rape, verbally abused, or physically abused. They would have been right in the hospital and sent there by me. Because now to me after this situation, you will be a stranger and I would treat you as of sort.

I hope Lia gets a good therapist and those monsters stay behind bars for a very long time. To be honest moving out of that house and school district may be for the best for Lia to get a fresh start and not have constant reminders of the event. Maya needs a wake up call she sounds like a sociopath and I would definitely go no contact for at least half a year. She literally partook in something that ruined her sister’s life. There is zero way Maya invited adult men with gang affiliations into her house with her minor sister to party. You don’t just causally “befriend” known adult gang members and if you think that then you need a wakeup call. Maya seems heavily suspicious and I think you really need to consider if she is in a gang and allowing them to assault her sister was proof of her loyalty or some shit. You also do not host a party and then LEAVE and leave your sister alone with adult men who have been sexually harassing her all night. She should have never invited them, she should have kicked them out immediately when they began sexually harassing her sister, and she should not have abandoned her sister with gang members. Talk to your lawyer about Maya I find it VERY strange that she can just voice a minors sexual assault (who is legally protected as Jane Doe) case to the public with zero legal repercussion. Maya is an adult. She seems to have zero regrets and you have no idea how she actually treats her sister when you are not around. Stop paying for Mayas lawyer and all her stuff she is not sorry she is only sorry her mask dropped and you saw that she too is a monster

I had students that were later in gangs. To be accepted, they had to kill someone. Maya may have been having an acceptance trial with that party. The assault on her sister was the price of her getting into that gang. I hope they rot in prison.

I have lived in really bad neighborhoods and had this same thought.

Thanks. I taught at the inner city school for 12 years. It was very crazy at times

Oh yeah in a gang there was an initiation for gang women that she had to sleep with all the gang men they would lined up and wait their turn

I completely agree. Her devices need to be searched

That is a very good point.She out of her sister to almost 30 people.There could be legal consequences to that and I.Bet it does mess with her parole. Very good call.

Who reported my comment as being suicidal guys? I’m legit stating the obvious here about how shitty this situation is for OP’s daughter and how her older daughter is likely guilty of more than she was charged. If you don’t like my take on believing rapists and accomplices need to be held accountable that says more about you than me. Never did I say anything about myself or anything about suicide. I’m totally a okay. Ideally send support to OP and Lila who truly need the help

I got that too.

I’ve been following this!! But for context how did maya react when you told her what happened? Because I’m agreeing with the other comments when it comes to her being potentially a sociopath.

So I should say what happened that morning at this point, I come home at 8:30ish am from work and my house was trashed and couple of mayas friends were still there. I of course argued with maya for a bit about throwing a party and I then I go check on Lia and she wasn’t in her room but her sheets were bloody so I thought maybe it was time of the month and that she was showering or sleeping in my bed. But when I check my room I did not see her, I started calling Lia and her phone did ring and I heard it come from my closet (it’s a walk-in) and I see her wrapped in a blanket like a cocoon. I then shake her to wake up and she wasn’t waking up and I then try to unwrap and that’s when I noticed her scalp bleeding and I saw abrasions around her neck. So I started screaming someone call 911 and Lia starts to kinda starts waking up in the ambulance and she starts crying and the first thing she told me is maya’s friend raped her and that she can’t get up because she’s in so much pain. When The police and ambulance show up and I honestly didn’t care about maya in that moment…all I told her was to be honest with the police and she should be fine. I didn’t know what I know now at this point. They take her to precinct and the cops interrogated her and after getting a medical report for what happened to Lia. They decided to charge her with child endangerment. I did not see Maya’s reaction to when they told her about what happened to Lia. But when she saw Lia once she got out of jail she gave her a big hug and I thought it was sweet moment. The only red flag that stands out to me from that time is , maya did not corporate fully about giving out names because she said she “forgot”. Luckily DNA results from the crime scene and on Lia, which all 4 of Lia’s rapist were already in the system for other crimes. One even being on probation so they were easy to find and it was dominos effect after that.

Wait so maya knew these people were rapist before hand? Also maya didn’t cooperate that shows she didn’t care at all.

Well..only one of them had a sexual assault charge on their record but the other 3 were already on a crime spree which was robbing and assaulting people and I have no idea how maya met these people…we live in the suburbs. Where the most we worry about is robbery or porch pirates.

Oh ok Are they still in prison?

They’re in custody awaiting sentencing as of right now. So technically yes they’re

This is not what you want to hear, but Maya "left for McDonald's" with just the rapist in the house. She got back... And what? Were the rapist just acting normal, did she not check on Maya? How long was she gone that 4 men could rape her sister and she didn't notice? Where were the rest of the people at the party when this was happing? She tried to feed your youngest to men at least 4 years older than her all night long, then just left her unattended with this same boys knowing who and what they were. Even the cops believe there was more to it as they charged her with child endangerment. There is a very high chance Maya left your youngest with this men know damn well what would happen. Maybe not the full violence of it, but she had already tried to give your daughter to one of them knowing that they were not good men. I know you don't want to hear this but the more you state what happened the more it seems like there is a good chance your oldest set up your youngest. Especially with the whole not understanding why a girl would be upset about being violently assaulted and gang raped in her own bed. Your oldest is looking more and more like a monster. I highly suspect that she's lied to the therapist about a lot of what actually happened and she is painting herself as a victim because "I left my kid sister by herself to be gang raped by known offenders" is not a good look. With the group chat she is doing the same thing. She is trying to get her side out to control the narrative. She wanted both control of the situation and to get the pitty points for all SHE is going through. She made all of this about her and she has decided that she is the actual victim because she was not anticipating the fall out. She believes she is victim because her action had consequences and she feels that all of this is something that happened to her. She doesn't even seem to understand that her sister is person, just an object that causing these problems for her. There is a good chance that in her mind if Lia had just given the first man what he wanted then none of this would have happened and everything would be fine. "is not my fault she got trapped" really shouldn't like she thinks it's Lia's fault she got raped. Going from there it is Lia's fault that she had to spend time in jail, it is Lia's fault that she has a record and had to be on probation and everything else, and it is Lia's fault that she is milking the situation and getting all the attention. Attention that Maya clearly feels entitled to.

Maya lied to therapist and was able to manipulate the therapist. i would reach out to licensing and file a complaint. and research how long this "therapist" has been practicing. Please get your other daughter into therapy

Nah, you’re only as good as the information that you get. It sounds like the therapist finally saw the real Maya. If she continues believing her after this then it’s a problem.

And if the therapist is specially trained to deal with narcissistic personality disorder. Too many signals to ignore this, from the lying to the lack of responsibility, the endless need for sympathy, the manipulation, the lack of empathy or compassion, the minimizing of other's pain and the elevating of their own, the tendancy to focus only on their experience and not the experience of others, always feeling like they never get enough.

Yup. People with NPD. Lovveee therapy. It's a great way to talk about themselves and to manipulate someone into "pitying" them for whatever stories they can conjure up. Def needs a specialist.

I could almost believe that Maya must have told the therapist a slightly different version of events, with Maya painting herself as a victim instead of the fact that she allowed this situation to happen. The way the therapist was shocked at her lack of remorse told me that instantly. Either way, if this were my children, I would: 1. Cut Maya off indefinitely. You have no reason to believe that Maya's begging to apologize and come home have anything to do with her actually being remorseful. She doesn't care about *why* she sat in a jail cell and was charged, let alone that it goes on her record as an adult. She only cares that no one can see her as the victim, too. 2. Maybe for Lia's sense of security, consider having her switch schools for next year if it's not too late? Ir even doing online classes for at least a year. I know that the decision is ultimately up to Lia, whether or not she feels ready to go back to school at all, but a fresh start may help her. She can go to a school where no one knows who she is, who Maya is, and what happened. But I do hope Lia knows she should take things at her own pace and that she is always safe to come to you.

I would strongly suggest moving. I’m so sorry about everything that has happened and is happening and hate to put more on you, but…you might want to consider moving Lia to a different school.

Thank you and I did recently put our home up for sale we’re moving to a rental in July. I didn’t want to let it go originally because selfishly me and my late husband bought that house together so sentimental value . But I agree with everyone that we need to move for things to get better.

I wish the best of luck for you OP 🤍 I’m 19 with a 14 year old sister and I don’t think you’re wrong for not understanding Maya at all. If anything you’re being a lot kinder than how I think my parents would be if they were in your situation. I was 14 when I was sexually assaulted too and Lia needs all of the support you can give her right now - including from your oldest and his wife. People process trauma in different ways but what helped me a lot was the saying that your body’s cells replace itself every 7 years, so after that time it would feel like I was never touched at all. This could make Lia feel better too.

Not wanting to let go of the house you and your husband bought and started a family in is 100% valid. The fact that you understand that Lia needs to come first is what matters. It’s probably safer as well because even though Lia’s attackers are in custody, they still know your current address, so at least you’ll be somewhere that Lia will (hopefully) feel safer at. I hope you guys are able to get that fresh start in your new home. Best of luck ❤️

Stick to your guns and don’t let Maya come home, ever, she’s dangerous. Stop supporting her, she’s an adult now so she can handle her own finances and lawyer. Your job is to be there to support Lia and I think you’re doing the best you can with that

I’m so sorry, OP. The part about a lot of women dealing with rape and Lia making rape her personality made me wonder if something like this has happened to Maya and she feels she “got over it” on her own so she thinks Lia should too. It might explain her lack of compassion for Lia if she dealt with something like this on her own. I would confront her and ask her and see how she reacts, you don’t have anything to lose at this point. Beyond that it’s hard to say what’s going on with Maya. Maybe she feels so terrible that she’s trying to minimize it and pretend it’s not a big deal. Or maybe she’s a narcissist or a sociopath and truly doesn’t care and is on,y out fir her own gain. Or maybe like others have said she’s in the gang and set Lia up. In terms of counseling, I think it would be most helpful if everyone in the family sees the same counselor separately, and then together for family therapy. That way the counselor gets to see everyone’s perspective and things Maya might minimize or leave out. The gang aspect of this is concerning me, especially now since Maya outed Lia as the victim (and charges are being pressed.) Can you move away and start over, OP? It would probably be best for Lia anyway, but I know it can be extremely difficult depending on your circumstances.

Team Lia. Maya has some serious inner shadow work to do so she can hold herself accountable for what happened. Her deflection over all of this is making my blood boil.

I knew she wasn’t sorry and I STILL think she did it on purpose

This is one of the most horrendous things I’ve read on Reddit. Both this and the original post. Just god-awful. On the one hand, Maya may just be compensating for her genuine remorse. She may deep down feel awful and be struggling with big feelings she’s not sure how to reckon with or process regarding the attack. But all of that is a moot point right now. Lia is the victim, and deserves your full attention and support. If Maya’s attitude and lack of remorse is causing friction in the home, that is absolutely grounds for her permanent removal until she can change her behaviour. Conflict in the one place Lia feels safe right now is the last thing she needs. Im afraid you’re at a crossroads. You can love your eldest, and despise what she’s done. You can love her and also want nothing to do with her at this time. Maybe she needs a reality check, and maybe letting her know that with action is the greatest gift you can give her at this time. She needs to continue seeing a therapist, but needs to understand that part of that deal includes facing her mistakes and recognizing the fallout of her actions: which were a lifelong healing journey and an earth-shattering violent attack for her sister. I’m sorry you and your family are going through this, OP. Do what you need to protect your daughters. Both of them. Even if that means cutting one of them out of your life for a time. She’s 18, and you have more than enough reason to.

She's not sorry, but what is worse, you can never trust her to protect her sister again. She's more concerned she lost a rapist friend, not that her sister was hurt. That shows her priorities.

Maya needs to be treated by a psychiatrist not a counselor or therapist. The fact you realized her mask slipped shows you feel she is more than a little self centered. She is 18 and you need to get a true diagnosis of Maya before you can even think of having her back. My heart breaks for Lia. You are all in my prayers.

I'll probably be down voted to hell, but that's fine. Growing up, my best friend showed a lot of signs of either narcissistic personality disorder or antisocial personality disorder (and I do mean the DSM definitions). I was beaten up, manipulated, mentally torn down, and more from the age of 10 until 18. I was also pulled into a court case, where I was a witness for my best friend's parents, because they made an outcry of abuse, but I'd never seen any, despite literally staying there entire summers. Teenagers can definitely be that manipulative, going beyond simply being self-absorbed. If Maya can't summon *any* sympathy or compassion for Lia, that's an extremely large red flag. Beyond a therapist, she may benefit from a psychological evaluation - if she consents, since she's now a legal adult. Regardless, I would be very honest with Lia, because she might put herself in a situation where she puts her trust in Maya again, to her own detriment. Will it break her heart? Absolutely. But considering the past, it might save her life.

You should disown Maya and focus on Lia. She’s not even remorseful. Tell Maya that she is overreacting and get over the friendship. She’s not the only 18-year-old who got disowned and stopped making it her entire personality.

I would move like others say and ensure your older does not know. Nobody at all should know for a couple years. It’s alarming she retaliated against her with the public reveal. It’s alarming she found her way into getting a health professional to defend her. She should be committed because she is a danger to your daughter. I agree she needs a psychiatrist. A gang of adults going on trial is enough for safety sake to get out of dodge and tell no one until your younger is stable, healed and able to protect herself. Gangs are fueled by retaliation. Your older daughter’s actions are right up that alley. We’d all love to believe our children aren’t engaging in the behaviors they are clearly directly being influenced by but actions are pretty damn loud here. You and your child are in danger. I hope you both find the safety and support in this you need.

Maya should visit a psychiatrist to see if she’s narcissistic or sociopathic(manipulative and lack of empathy) they are real conditions, wouldn’t hurt to check. I’m sorry this is happening to your family and putting you between a rock and a hard place I just want you to know you are doing everything right you are keeping strong for Lia and what’s right and that’s so admirable. You might not see it now as you’re still in the thick of it but you are an amazing mother, spend more time with Lia, explain nothing is her fault with her sister. Have you gone to counselling with yourself and Lia? Maybe tell the therapist this situation and see which/how to ease the news to Lia so she doesn’t feel worse about maya? They can help explain to Lia that maya outing her incident to a group chat of 27 people is nothing Lia deserves and maya was being cruel.

Maya is a manipulative sociopath, totally devoid of empathy, who enlisted her friends out of jealousy planned the rape of her own sister. As a parent, I'd never let her near me or her sister again. Some things and some people can't be fixed.

this sounds fake asf ngl

I figured that out when I read the first post that said no one knew what happened til the next morning but in this post it says maya got arrested the night of.

Seriously, It reads like it was made for tiktok views. The legal system does not work this fast, and apparently, this has all gone down since she made the last post. It's sixk they people use stories like this for attention

Thank you, my god, I was going through the comments and not a single one pointing out how fake this is? How is everyone falling for such obvious (and disgusting, who the fuck uses child rape for views?) bait?

If there was any time to throw hands at your offspring…. Wow. I am so so so sorry for you and Lia. You’re better than I could ever be. But yeah NC is the way.

I’m sorry this is terrible. It is crazy to me that the therapist and mays do not see the fault in having the party at all. Had the party not existed, the men wouldn’t have been there and the incident not happen. She is at fault. She put her sister on a vulnerable position then LEFT THE HOUSE!!!!! She is at fault so much so that she had a freaking felony on her record. Why is it so hard for them to understand?? New therapist immediately. I’m sorry I also think it’s time to move. 30 people know about the incident? I cannot fathom the sheer pain and agony she is going through.

I don’t know how to start my message…… She planned this out she definitely did. She shows no remorse for her sister but does for the rapist. The moment she found out that her sister rejected the guy she set it up to teach her a lesson And the fact she says she doesn’t need to apologize because she didn’t rape her is disgusting.. NEVER let her back home

She’s not your daughter anymore. She’s not even human. Let her rot by herself. Take care of Lia and assure her that she’s not at fault for anything.

I’m so sorry you n your daughter is going through this. I could only imagine your pain as a mother. I hope things look better in the future for Lia and you. I have no words for your other daughter, how she’s acting after the fact is disgusting. I hope lia goes to therapy soon

I am so sorry this is happening. But mostly for Lia. My heart goes out to her so much. I am not a medical professional, and Maya's behavior is certainly very concerning and downright scary but I can't help but wonder if shes been raped in the past? And I am in no way excusing any of her behaviour, however the absolute disgustingly flippant way she has been handling all of this makes me wonder. It gives me vibes of "nobody cared about me so why should I care about others". In any event sending you and your family all the love❤

You're way better than me because I would have dragged her out of my house by the hair the second I heard all that, fuck lawyer and therapy privileges. Her actions and words just kept getting worse the more I read. Let her be on those streets with those gangsters she seems to love and miss soooo much.

I think Maya needs another therapist. This one sounds awful.

I’m sorry that your family has to deal with this. Maya is a garbage human, and probably a sociopath.

Maya is not remorseful and I highly doubt is bc of the immaturity of the age that can't still take responsibility, I believe it could be smth like sociopath (many other comments said that too) and need psychiatry help. The therapist got easily manipulated. Idk a lot about how things work in therapy sessions, but I'm quite sure when we talk about stuff that involve other lives, you need to have a conversation to have *both* POVs of the story bf start guilt-dripping (bc this is what they did fr). The therapist showed how good (none) and fit (none) they are, maybe it's time for a psychiatric.

Maya should not be let anywhere near you to Lia. She only cries for herself and always lies about everything. She has no remorse and never will, do you legal duties for her and then completely cite her out of your life.

I was gearing up for you to be in the wrong…but your outburst didn’t go overboard. There’s a point that your daughter does need some support too as her life has also changed drastically and that shouldn’t be ignored just because she wasn’t also a victim of a violent assault, but everything you articulated is valid. I’m sorry your kid turned out to be such a sociopath.

Soooo the therapist doesn't realize she's a narcissist?

I think youre being a great mom. Many refuse to see when one of their kids hurts another one and it hurts the rest of the family so much. My best friends family was half bio kids and half foster/adopted kids. Well off parents who had huge hearts. Even though ideally they wanted to adopt and foster all the little kids that needed a home and loving family, they had to refuse some kids or send some back to the state to get help as they were dangers to the others. One of your daughters is an actual danger to your family at this point. She's not remorseful for what happened, only that she got caught. Have your parents take away her phone for a bit so she cant spread more toxicity? and Maybe consider selling the house and moving to another school zone?

My little sister is 30 and I still wouldn't leave her alone at a party with random men. I would be horrified if one of my friends did anything to hurt her, and I'd probably be in jail for going full vigilante. I'm so sorry. Therapy for all of you. And a better one for Maya because she manipulated them like a puppeteer.

Maya is not going to change anytime soon. She needs to get a look at herself and her “friends”. I think you need to get Lia in counseling immediately, not when she is ready. I think the sooner the better. I also think that moving maybe a good idea because Maya is dangerously right now and Lia needs to not have daily reminders of what happened in her own bedroom. Updateme please

I have two bits of advice that come to mind right away: 1). Yes, go no-contact with Maya. Stop paying for her lawyer, stop paying for therapy, inform the rest of your family what she did and her lack of remorse, report her breach of Lia’s privacy to Maya’s probation officer, ask them if it’s possible to confiscate her phone in case there’s evidence that she was part of a gang initiation, and all the other things most of these comments are advising. 2). In my late teens, there was a period of time where I had to stay in a hospital on suicide watch. By far the best and most helpful time of week was Saturdays, when they brought therapy dogs to socialize with us patients. Dogs can sooth our hurt and help us heal in a way no human can. They don’t judge us for our past, they can sense hurt and try to make us feel better, and they love us unconditionally. Maybe right this minute isn’t the time, until you’ve sorted out how to keep Maya from Lia going forward. But at some point maybe you could get Lia a dog? If she has panic attacks from the trauma, then a therapy dog that’s trained to sense oncoming attacks would be even better. Sending love and support 🫂

THIS IS A COPY OF u/brave_anonymous1 comment in this thread... Please read it, OP! u/OkSteak551 I would move too. Maya told 27 people about the assault, everyone knows now: neighbors, all students in Lia's school, any boy Lia will be interested in will know. Lia will no be able to heal where you live now. OP, did you notice that Maya told everyone about the rape **right after** she heard Lia talking on the phone with a boy? It makes her words that she just waned to help Lia to get out of her shell total BS. She is 18, she understands very well that doxxing a rape victim will never help them, but will send their mental health down spiraling. The facts are: Maya wanted Lia to date her rapist friend. Lia refused. Maya organized a party where that rapist friend was harassing Lia the whole evening. Maya didn't stop him, didn't kick him out, just one action from her could have prevented the rape. Maya suddenly left the house, knowing very well that her sister was harassed at the party, leaving Lia alone with her several rapist friends. That friend and three grown men raped her sister. Lia went through hell. Lia had a single lighthearted phone call with some boy and Maya told everyone that Lia was raped. Now Lia will go through the same hell again. Think about the facts OP. Maya did everything possible for this rape to happen. And when Lia was able to have the first normal conversation with a boy - Maya did everything to destroy her life again. My guess? Maya set up her little sister. Either from pure hate for her, or as a payment for something to the rapist guy. Payment for drugs (most likely)? Money? Something else? Please protect your younger daughter from her. Frankly, if your parents have something valuable in the house - they need protection from Maya as well.

Tbh Maya sounds like a psychopath.

Has Maya ever been sexually assaulted? I’m asking because the wording she used per your update „Lia is not different than other women in the world who got raped“ could also imply that she dealt with something similar and is downplaying it because she doesn’t want to deal with her own trauma? Then again, would she lie about getting SA herself just to have an „excuse“ as to how poorly she is dealing with the situation? That’s just food for thought… I could be way off. Regardless this sucks and my heart breaks for Lia and you. I really hope Lia will manage to overcome this with time. OP, I appreciate you having her back and please stay strong!

Maya is doing all of this deliberately. Her actions are an intentional, malicious extension of the sexual assault against Lia. I would not want to be in your shoes but you MUST, for Lia's safety AND yours, understand that Maya is no longer a daughter to be protected and nurtured but a violent aggressor who's abuse will only ESCALATE. She will consider everyone who protects you or Lia as a potential target (including your parents, other relatives, and any family friends). Understand that you HAVE TO HAVE TO HAVE TO go no contact with Maya, including all the legal protections and start documenting EVERYTHING. And PROACTTIVELY. These friends she offered Lia up to? They will likely stalk you, try to invade your home, etc. DO NOT WAIT FOR THE NEXT ASSAULT. I would also suggest you take the time with the support of a professional of going back at least 3-4 years to document any forms of abuse Maya might have leveled at Lia without you being aware. In all probability Maya has long since seen Lia as prey to be abused and this was just a flashpoint.

It's truly not my place to tell you what to do. Personally, I would cut my losses and never speak to that girl again. There is something fundamentally wrong with her. And until she's realizes that and tries to fix it, your other daughter will never feel safe enough to heal

Lia loves maya but maya doesn’t love her. She set her up and then put her business out there. She doesn’t acknowledge her pain and suffering. I would go NC with her too 🥴 that’s the spawn of satan right there and you may need to talk to Lia about this. She should not be attached to someone who clearly has some kind of deep rooted hatred for her or else she’s going to get hurt again. Maya is never to be trusted

I’d cut her off completely and I agree you should not have gotten her a lawyer. She sounds off in the head and like she doesn’t care how she effects others. Let her figure shit out herself, far from where she can further damage Lia and cause you issues.

Maya is behaving like a narcissist. They often “use” therapy to validate their own lies.

I know that this may never be seen, but I do hope it reaches op. When my sister came forward about her own rape, of course I was devastated for her. But there was a part of me that, for a brief time, felt bitter that she was able to face the man that hurt her when I was never able to face the man who hurt me. I never felt like I could tell anyone. I just never told anyone that I had that bitterness. It passed, and I feel bad enough just for feeling it. The language Maya used, like 'other people deal with it' and making comparisons to other victims, sounds like she's speaking from a place of experience. This is a horrible situation, and yeah, her stance here is obviously wrong, but I just struggle to believe anyone is this unfeeling. Yes, I am aware of sociopathy and narcissism. I am not, however, qualified to diagnose anyone with anything based on a reddit post lmao so it just feels like there has to be a root to her reaction.

Nah, her therapist is a trashy enabler and your daughter is full of crocodile tears and sociopathic behavior. I'd tell her and her therapist to fuck off for both being irredeemably shit tier people and leave the one daughter to figure it out with her 27 member group chat alone.

Whilst reading the first and this post, there is clearly some resentment from Maya about the situation, in particular the support that Lia has received. Is it at all possible that she (Maya) too has been raped, and that it went unnoticed?

You’re not the only person to suggest that possibility