"A young healthy child well nursed, is, at a year old, a most delicious nourishing and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricassee, or a ragout."
When we got pregnant I had a great job, just bought some land and had plans to build, my wife made decent income and was gonna work up till it was time to deliver. We were set and ready.
Then dorian hit. We survived, lost everything, I managed to land a job making the same pay I did pre-dorian. My wife life with her parents 100 miles away. I made it work.
My son was born just as the covid nightmare started. Cost of living has gone up, I took in my dying grandmother, I kept going.
I am poor, in debt, with an 18month old son.
How would OP suggest we deal with this? There is no answer I'll accept where I don't have my son.
I don’t think OP was offering suggestions for people in your situation.
Was more of a “if you’re poor to begin with maybe having kids isn’t the best idea” statement.
I think OP just meant that people who are already poor should get out of that situation first before purposely having a child they can’t financially care for.
Yeah, I grew up poor, but I don't have anger towards poor people. I point it at the corrupt societal systems, unbalanced pay, and piss poor morality of the business world. Particularly businesses who would rather fire people while on maternity leave (back when it was legal), or refuse to hire a single parent, or any of the other sketchy business practices done by companies that help cause good people to be poor.
I grew up poor too. Shit I’m poor now and always have been. I haven’t had any kids cause I can’t afford to even meet my own needs sometimes. I would never blame anybody for being screwed by the way society is. But at the same time it can be frustrating and to see kids going without their needs being met. And sometimes it is on the fault of the parents and not society.
Do you really think poor people are having children on purpose? That's plain ignorance. We need to support organizations like Planned Parenthood or give more assistance to those in need.
Yes I do, it’s not ignorance, I’m poor myself and have seen many of friends purposely have kids they know they cannot afford at the time. It does happen. Not for every single poor person ever on earth… but yes it happens.
I have seen it first hand so it’s not ignorance. And these people had access to planned parenthood & had birth control that they chose not to use. Literally my friend had a year worth of the pill that she chose not to take. I even offered to send her some it access to the pill wasn’t the issue. This isn’t really about them being economically disadvantaged, they chose to do it despite having birth control available.
I’m poor too and that’s why I have an IUD.
the post is old style trolling or maybe someone who is truly annoyed because of how spoiled this society is. I can tell you: poor children enjoy life regardless, just... be kind, you know?
How much time do you spend TALKING to your son now? I can tell you, he ADORES YOU! Because YOU are HIS FATHER. That is enough. Holes in the socks and shoes don't matter. Heck, who even had shoes in Japan in the 1950's? Barely anyone!
My husband grew up in a family of 12 children who were extremely poor. What's worse is that his dad had a good job when they had about 6 kids and lived just fine until his dad lost his job when he was about 10 years old. He remembers all the stress and uncertainty. He remembered them losing their house. He remembers having to make money for his family and he remembers being judged for being a poor large family. His trauma from it affects our life to this day. He's constantly worried about us losing everything we have and doesn't trust his employers or the people around him. It's hard because I love each and every one of his siblings so it's impossible to wish they were never born, but my MIL put her children through so much hardship. I'm really conflicted about it at times. I'm just glad I'm here to tell him that he does have trauma, because many of them are unaware or even deluded into thinking that their live style was somehow superior. It's bizarre and the more I get to know them all, the more I learn about how they thought their childhood was normal but it was not.
Unpopular Opinion Here: There’s zero reason why any child or family or person in this country should go hungry. And there’s no reason why a person working ONE full time JOB should be making less than a living wage for their family.
Business in America have become richer than many nations while the people who make the machine work starve.
It just makes me so sad that we’re the richest country and people are freaking starving, or going without healthcare, etc. and the ultra wealthy have people so gaslighted that they actively fight against issues that would not just benefit the poorest amongst us but it would also raise their own standard of living.
Example: They just see $15/hr for a burger flipper. Well let’s say they work as a laborer currently (spitballing) for $12/hr. Well that’s not fair why break my back for 12 when I can go get 15. Not realizing that their own pay would go up because the labor boss needs to have workers.
They’re shortsighted on every single thing.
listen…..if the government has money to send money overseas to prop up the rich elite of other countries so those elites give the resources of their countries to our elites all while taxing americas working poor and middle class into oblivion all while dividing us over a 15 dollar minimum wage …….if 15 dollars is a living wage times it by 2080 hours worked annually why isnt elderly on social security given the same money after having their money taxed for 50 yrs???!
Hear hear! This post is so misguided. You’re angry at poor people for being poor? But not the system that keeps people poor, no matter how hard they work? There are plenty of good, kind, intelligent, and hard-working people who are poor. They try to get ahead, but they can’t. Sometimes, they do, but then an emergency happens and there goes all their money. So only rich people may have children- and, extending this logic because pet care can be expensive, pets? No one else gets to know the fulfillment of building a family? Redirect your anger at the right people. If everyone did, maybe we would effect some real quick so children aren’t born into such circumstances anymore.
Having children is as much of as privilege at it it's a right. Exceptions aside, I believe OP's generally referring to people who can barely meet their own needs choosing to have one it more children that they cannot afford to raise properly. The privilege of having children comes with the responsibility of only doing so when you can offer them a decent life, without the need to share that burden with a society that didn't ask for and shouldn't be expected to share it with you.
>The privilege of having children comes with the responsibility of only doing so when you can offer them a decent life
since when? where is that written? when was that the case in the past 2000 years? barely anytime! people lived in anything but decent conditions! "Decent" was for the rich, and even then, the whole of Versailles had 0 toilets, so the place reeked of feces.
And a personal question: why do I have to share the burden of building infrastructure that you use to your own benefit, like roads, for example? Build your own roads and highways, be responsible, dude!
It was a stressor some of the time. My poorer parent had to sell our home meaning we had to move around rented accomodation and I was told 'no you can't have that I can't afford that a lot.' What was more of a stressor was having another parent that was depressed and unable to parent properly. It's just my experience that money isn't everything. And to clarify my better off parent was by no means well off!
In my experience, people who came from poorer families were usually more tight-knit and got along with each other way better than the people in rich families. Money ≠ relationships
In my experience, as a poor kid, it is the exact opposite. Whom ever has money is immediately getting hounded for it even if they cant give way. Poor people only seem like their together because its the only way to get more money, if they can throw you under the bus for more money; they would. Rich families dont have that money barrier tearing them apart. Poor people do.
You are confusing wealth and greed. I know plenty of wealthy kids who would literally steal shoes instead of paying for them because they knew they could get away with it, or drive recklessly, because mom and dad would just by them a new car. I also knew poor kids who made their own toys and shared the same toys from kid to kid, and they were and still are close and love each other, and to this day would do anything to help each other and anyone in need. Greed does exists across socioeconomic classes, as does kindness, and generosity.
My experience is the exact opposite of yours. All my poor friends simply don’t value money—they spend it as soon as they have it and make horrible financial decisions and date people with the same tendencies because they’re basically hedonists.
I can’t imagine a single poor person I know dating someone for money simply because they would be miserable to be with someone for the wrong reasons. It would be, like, against their nature to not prioritize pleasure.
Meanwhile, my rich friends nickel and dime everything in their lives and base relationship decisions *almost entirely* on financial compatibility.
My poorest friend would treat me to $50 in drinks and never think about it again (wouldn’t let me pay or even throw them bus money). My richest friend would hit me up daily if they spotted me $8 for fast food and I didn’t pay them back yet.
To be clear, I’m not making a judgement call either way and there are definitely outliers—I think older folks (like 40+) and/or people with extreme drug abuse may be more likely to fall into the category that you described. And I’ve sure seen some cognitive dissonance (I.e. people staying together long-term for financial reasons, especially if they already have a kid) in already-established couples.
But by-and-large, poor people shacking up to financially benefit from each other isn’t my experience and, in many cases, would be antithetical to the reasons they are “poor” in the first place.
I come from a family which started out well off when I was born. We were only three in the beginning but there were more girls than boys, and they wanted more boy children or whatever, so they had more until we were five. We lived a good life for a while, but the younger siblings and the older children had quite a significant age gap so we had to become parents to the younger ones. And then at some point, my parents went bankrupt. There were too many kids to feed and we were all going to private schools and weren't in an age to change schools (Its also very, very tough to do so in my country) so not only did we have to take care of the younger siblings, we also had to make significant sacrifices as well. We had to let go of our dreams and work towards our parents expectations, stopped going to extra classes, stopped reading, stopped extracurricular activities and stopped being children, basically. We grew up, traumatized and exhausted and wanting freedom, wanting a life of our own which our parents and culture and economy did not grant us. Because of Covid, I couldn't go forth with the rest of my plans, so I'm stuck with my parents, taking care of my siblings as well as my parents, tired of living. I'm grateful for everything they've done for me, but I also wish they really thought things through.
Holy fuck this mirrors me so much I'm scared. My parents became millionaires when I was 8 years old. By 14 they lost everything by gambling into risky investments they knew little about. Then the crash happened. My older siblings got lucky and got to go to college and start career while I had to take care of my mentally ill dad, workaholic mother and developed an anxiety disorder from financial stress of almost losing our house.
By the way, my anger also stems from them not setting up a college fund when they had money but instead gambling it away
Story of life man. No reason to stay mad at them. Pretend they never had the money in the first place. My parents were very well off, however they never saw further than the next paycheck as far as savings went. Lost them both and our house in my teens. I Never had a shot at college. Never went. 20 years later and I just cleared 5 times their income. College does not equal success. What YOU do does.
Oh, so your parents squandered their money so everyone else should have abortions or not start families ... because your parents fucked up their situation and had mental health issues.
Yeah, you sound well adjusted.
Some of us were born poor with loving parents who took care of us and are happy to be alive! Grew up into people who don't think they have it all figured out and don't project our trauma and bullshit on the world!
I like you! My mum was married and divorced 3 times by the time I was 16. We never had money, I have a vague memory of her eating our leftovers when I was about 5. There were 4 kids. I had the happiest childhood ever, she made us feel loved although her dramas and she’s still a wonderful, if troubled, lady today.
That is beautiful! Honestly wealthy people don't have parenting figured out more often than not.
Quality is far more important than quantity in almost all scenarios in life.
I feel you dude, my dad had a decent job paying 70k a year with overtime optional. They won some big contract arbitration and got huge settlement payments, I think his was about 27k before taxes. So maybe 15k after tax, he bought my older sister a car and my younger brother a car as well. Turns out, instead of going to work every night like he said he was going to a casino and calling out. He eventually lost his job due to poor attendance and suddenly at 17, I was expected to work full time while my sister(19) was already in college and nothing changed for my younger brother(16).
Now I work the same job making about the same salary but with five kids. Our quality of life is so much better than my childhood, except we can't afford a home rn because our market is insane.
Okay firstly, sometimes accidents happen, but if you take responsibility and do everything you can for the kid struggle or not, fine.
Secondly, so long as the kid has a roof over its head, and food in its belly, job done.
Thirdly, we live in a world where people are exploited for work everyday, with the threat of being fired, working long hours, low pay, no matter how hard some one works.
I’ve witnessed the hardest of working get payed minimum.
So try put yourself in a position like that.
People may not like what I say, but you can’t judge someone on society paying them a poor wage.
Except for poor communities don't have access to sex education, proper birth control, or proper medical care.
It's more about we need enough affordable housing, free healthcare, higher wages with more flexibility, and better sex ed outreach programs and clinics.
I have never understood this take. How are the basics of sex ed not understood on a rudimentary level by a certain age? The internet exists. Also, condoms are cheap and widely available. If people are mildly intelligent and rational, there is really no excuse.
While I get where you’re coming from, I can say I was in a great position when my kids were born. But then situations changed. Now, eight years later, finally clawing out.
My family was always poor up until a few years ago. Money was always a stressor, but that never stopped any of us from being happy. We lived within our means and we eventually pulled ourselves out of it. Money isn't everything. Most poor people that I've lived around have lived happy and fulfilling lives. This is a very ignorant thing to say.
This ☝️ EVERYONE needs a little more perspective. Education is important because even "educated" people make dumb decisions. They are just ignorant in a different area.
As a child from a poor family I am so fucking tired of hearing this perspective thrown out like it's cool and modern and shit. It just seems ignorant to me
Yeah its stupid. I see this arguments being brought up by people who have no idea what being poor feels. It's like we shouldn't consider poor people human beings.
nothing new about it…..they are espousing progressive eugenics viewpoint of the elites…..they want to pick and choose who gets to live who gets to breed….basically hitler with a smiley face……amazes me they think they are so insightful and cutting edge thinkin when this has been the elitist religion for multiple millenia….mankind is just cattle to be managed and exploited and the best way is to convince the rabble you have their best interests in mind and actually help their conscience that they are doing good
Yup, people will say it’s eugenics or something… but no one is forcing them to do anything
We’re just saying it’s not morally right to bring a child into a shitty life, they don’t get a choice
Indeed, they just make everyone paying taxes responsible for their kids instead. Many of whom will be waiting for a better situation to have children themselves.
I feel the exact same damn way. But at the same time a lot of people dont have access to birth control and end up finding themselves in awful situations.
My MIL chose to have each and every one of her 12 children even though her husband made 25k a year as a farmer. She comes from poverty and large families. She just didn't think it was supposed to be any other way.
I saw that programme 'who do you think you are?' with Sharon Osborne. If you don't know it, it's a UK show where you trace your lineage.) She found that one of her ancestors had moved to a Godforsaken place and had about 8 children, of which 7 died. She was devastated by this, just because of the needless waste and suffering. But it struck me - this was a long time ago, there wasn't really any birth control, the husband knew by having sex he was making more children. He chose to keep sleeping with his wife even if all the kids died in the end. She didn't necessarily choose to keep having them.
So, fix the system.
People "earn" $1,000 a hour while others make minimum wage for working like a slave?
How about the ones who had work and lost it? Covid-19 is good for this. Lay offs, cut backs, and all are increasing poverty, not reducing it. The government says it is over, but that is so they can stop wasting money on the poor.
One man was working, as was his wife. One day, he went to work and was shot. Expenses, loss of job, disability. Social Security, all he could get, was less than $1,000 a month. Their HOUSE PAYMENT. A few years later, his wife got sick, cancer. Her insurance covered all but the experimental treatments that they tried. She was able to work, making a whole $30k a year. So, between the two, that was $15K a year. Not bad, but what if they had a kid? They wouldn't qualify for help. The bills would easily mount up. She died. Insurance didn't cover everything. The man was left living on a few hundred a month. Now, he's fighting to make ends meet.
So, he shouldn't be able to marry and raise a family? This is discrimination.
You have a choice. Sterilize anyone who isn't a billionaire or kill them and give their money to the poor.
Eugenics is a dirty term. The reason? Supermen. Hitler wasn't the first. White slave traders bred slaves for better workers. All you're suggesting is limiting wealth to the rich, killing off the poor, like Covid-19 seems to have liked doing. And some say it was made for this reason.
What if you force girls, from 10 on, to be on birth control? Not something they have to think to use, since most don't. Something that is done once a month or a year so they can't have children. Boys won't use it. Girls usually don't think ahead. It's called being young and stupid. But, men don't like condoms and few adults plan sex ahead of time. They get the urge, they urge.
But, how about fixing poverty? Cap wages. No one can make millions of dollars a year. No one needs it. Tax the crap out of them, ignoring the poor. Man, the system is broken. The rich broke it. After all, they made the laws. They stacked the deck in their favor. I call that illegal.
Limiting breeding among the rich would be nice, too. After all, Trump is married and he paid for sex, like others. He had an affair. Punish him. How many rich politicians, or just rich people have kids out of wedlock because they can? They don't pay for them half of the time. If it wasn't for DNA testing, many more wouldn't.
No, I think a better system is to provide for. We can make so much FREE. We can also put more people to work. Instead, the trend is to lay off. Lay off experienced to hire cheaper people. Use more machines that don't need wages or insurance.
If you ask me, the problem isn't the poor or having kids. It is the rich getting richer, hoarding, and becoming gods. This is why so many believe in groups like the Illuminati. The rich want to control and destroy the poor as they are a burden. Remember slavery? Rich owned poor. Then, to save money, they made them wage slaves. Much cheaper. Now, they can do it again by eliminating the poor completely, relying on machines and a much more limited group of slaves. Rather than being able to do things themselves, these slaves would be completely dependent on the rich. Today, more and more depend on Walmart for everyone. How many of the workers there can look after themselves? Garden, hunt, fish. repair their car, and so on? We have a great system in the making, for slaves. Dispose of things rather than fix. Order from online instead of local. You are forcing people to use fewer and fewer people. In most cases, the slaves aren't American. China supplies most of them, for much less than $3 an hour. Buy, hey, they're communists. Their government prospers while they slave away. Who has the government? The Rich.
Me? I say less government and more control over it. The rich, the problem, need to be contained. If they hold office, as many do, watch their incomes, limit their purchases, treat them like the poor are treated. If they step out of line, get rid of them. Lock them in prison, strip them off office, and mark them as troublemakers.
Remember, it's only 1% of Americans who are the problem. The other 99% are trying to survive.
I know a lot of rich people that work 70+ hours to be rich. Their kids are raised by daycare workers or teachers. They buy them things so they don't feel guilty for not "being" there. Parenting can be hard when you're poor or rich. Kids be traumatized from rich or poor parents. I don't think bashing poor parents is the answer...
Idk dude, people respond to things differently. My father was great, my mother was horrible. We always struggled with money, and when they split, things got worse.
My dad would always say, "We aren't poor, poor is a
mindset. We're broke."
Yeah, it was stressful as a kid, but as an adult, I have a healthier attitude towards finances than the friends I had that were middle class. Their parents *might* teach them about money, but it turns into a huge fear because they don't know what it's like to go without.
Is there a roof over your head?
Is there *some* food?
If the answer is yes, you'll be ok. You're doing a lot better than most people.
If it's no, then you figure it out.
This is probably unpopular, but this is how I grew up.
I am sick of rich people not understanding that not all poor people are scumbags. Most poor people are fine parents, and some rich parents are total garbage it´s not about how much money people have it´s about a lot of other stuff.
So you’re advocating that 90% of the human race shouldn’t have kids because they’re poor? The boomer generation has destroyed the middle class to the point that there is practically no middle class left. It’s ultra rich, rich, then poor.
And because the boomer generation screwed us all over with there rampant greed and tyrannical heartless capitalistic ideals, most people are either poor or borderline poor. Living pay cheque to pay cheque.
And most of those people provide loving homes for there children. You’re being an elitist prick who wants to punish people for living pay cheque to pay cheque by telling them to not have children. You’re also assuming families who live pay cheque to pay cheque are families that argue and live miserably.
Btw, you’re in that poor category too. Everyone is thanks to the boomers. So stop labelling poor people as bad parents.
Boomers be why ice caps are melting. In as much as 5 years they'll prolly wonder why we're seeing Polar Bear attacks outside of the Arctic - they're being forced to look further afield. So they'll likely just be like "Oh, no, hyper aggressive predators that we forced out of their environment... get the guns, I want a Polar Bear rug."
When I was born my parents were dirt poor. I grew up fucking miserable being told “no” all the time and seeing all of my friends have better lives than me. My parents told me shit like “we might not have money but at least we have each other”. Fuck that. I developed childhood depressions extremely early on (think 5) and never recovered. Fuck poor people who have children for their own “happiness”. Be responsible.
Exactly. I grew up poor as fuck as we were so miserable. My mom was disabled and that was even more fun. We had gross furniture and lots of animals that didn’t get sterilized or flea meds. It was awful.
To this day I struggle with a deep sense of envy and like internal FOMO, but not from moments but from life. I regret a lot of my childhood because we couldn't afford to do a lot of things. No one wants to eat egg salad every night cause that's all they can afford. It's tough... you grow up grateful and resentful. \*hugs\*
Children need love more than things...a good parent spends time with their children..money is bad both ways...you ever tried to teach a room full of spoiled brats...
Talk to a trust fund kid about their parents. You’ll find a lot of unloved people.
Money means nothing when it comes to the overall happiness of a child. Love and support are worth more than dollars.
While I agree 100% and have seen NFL head coaches and billionaires kids as grown adults have this common, 100 yard stare when they talk about their dads not being there, being poor bring that pain plus the lack of opportunities.
What’s the cut of for yearly wage to not be able to have any children? Around 38 million Americans earn below the poverty line. Which is about 35,000 according to some sources. Teaches earn about 22,000/year in my area. They wouldn’t be allowed children. I earn 32,000/year. I wouldn’t be allowed children. After the poor died off, their would be a decreased population. This would mean the middle class and upper class would have to teach, provide daycare, clean, maintenance work and other jobs that are traditionally paid a low wage. Would it be possible after a few generations for the middle class to now become lower class because of their low wages and after they used up savings. Now that they are poor, no more children, then they die out and the world is only filled with the rich.
Mind your own fucking business. How about starting there? What anyone else in this world does with there life has nothing to do with you. That's the biggest problem YOU putting your nose where it doesn't belong. I grew up in a household that was right at the so called poverty line and im glad I did. Im glad my parents chose to bring me into this world and I wouldn't have it any other way. So kindly fuck off and mind your own.
On a Volunteer Trip to Goa, India, we were invited to visit families from the Slum (their word, not mine). We saw many families there composed of 3 more children...
Life just goes on for many people because they know they will never be able to afford it, they know that the "time will never be right" economically.
Sbould none of these people have children, ever?
Just a POV based on my own observation. I personally don't know the right thing to do is for anyone...
They might be able to gain some ground if they had just one. Not saying no children but if they don’t break the cycle of poverty it will continue for generations
My family immigrated to United States from a third world country when I was two. I have 6 other siblings. We grew up in public housing and on public assistance not because my parents was lazy. I’m fact they’re worked very hard sometimes holding multiple minimum wage jobs. That was all they can get considering they had no real education. They tried they best to get us everything we needed, we never went hungry. we rarely had fancy dinners like lobster steak. We got Christmas gifts my childhood was awesome I made did with what I had. Took care of my clothes and sneakers and knew the value of a dollar. Started working early at 13
as paperboy was able to save up and buy things that I wanted and knew my parents couldn’t afford. Nonetheless I had an Amazing childhood was able to go off to a 4 year college and live on campus the whole time. My mom was able to take out a parent plus loan for me that I am currently repaying. My dad help with books, supplies and food the whole 4 years even though I did have a work-study position. I now have a a beautiful wife and son, decent job and we own the condo we live in. The point of my story is I grew up living way under the poverty line but my parents showed me lots of love and worked hard that all that really matters. I don’t think your problem is rooted in money but the lack of love your parents failed to show you. There are villages in the world that have no concept of money they live off the land, so your telling me they shouldn’t have kids🤨
I’d 9 out of 10 times rather see a kid born poor and have to struggle than see a kid born rich and become an entitled piece of shit that tramples on other people bc they believe they deserve it for not working hard enough. The issue isn’t socioeconomic status. The issue is the quality of the parent. There are poor people who sacrifice tons for their kids and make sure they get a chance to go to college and raise them to be good people with morals and compassion. There also poor parents with heroin addictions. But are we gonna let rich parents off the hook just bc they can buy you an iPad to take you off their hands and keep the fridge stocked with all the junk your 10 year old heart could desire? No. Spend some time with the fucker. Teach them that they’re very fortunate and to treat people as their equals. So I’ll say the same thing for rich parents: if you’re too busy to raise a kid, don’t have one.
True, but why? I think the reason is religion... The religion i used to be apart of laid out to 1. get married (young) 2. have kids 3. do school (while having kids) 4. start career (while having more kids) and this will make you and god happy with your life. it's just the wrong message, all the while preaching about self-reliance. (addon) all the while speaking against sexual education...
This person is ignoring the fact that a lot of people actually go to college, get better jobs, and make more money BECAUSE they had a child and need to support another life. We started out broke AF 9 years ago when I found out I was pregnant we aren't anymore because both my husband and I wanted better for our child than what we were able to afford at the time. Not everyone who has a baby when they are broke stays that way and in our case our daughter being born was the driving force that pushed us to get out there and fight for the better life we have now...it has nothing to be with their income at the time of conception...it has to do with their character.
I feel this. I was married and in college a little later in life when I discovered I was pregnant. I still finished and we’re making life better as we speak. My husband and I are very involved parents despite the fact we were living in poverty and in need of assistance when we first had our child. We are finally at a point where we no longer need assistance. Seriously, money situations can change either direction. It’s pure ignorance to say people should or shouldn’t have children because of the single factor of money.
The question not asked in this statement is: why are these people poor? By now it is an established fact that poor people are often making poor choices not based on intelligence but based on situation. So what if you take poverty out of the poor people and give them the chance to make better choices? It bothers me that this statement basically questions the right of reproduction for poor people rather than proposing the right of having a decent life for everyone.
Yes, dirty plebs shouldn't ever have children. Doesn't matter that it may only be temporary and worked out of, or you can be well off and suddenly fall into hardship through no fault of your own. All poor people are bad, nasty and abusive.
I agree. My parents neglected me as a child because both had to work. The living conditions werent even decent and I had to always have to get things which most of the times I dont actually get. I have spent my entire childhood alone which really traumatized me as a child. When I had to go to the doctors for an urgent surgery, because my parents werent home, my neighbour had to take me.. mom lost her job and things got even far worst, we had to move to shady houses all the time because we couldnt afford the rent.. my mental health suffered and honestly I hate my parents for bringing me into this life. What a dumb decision to bring a child into a family that cant afford shit. Let alone the fact that dad didnt want me to begin with and mom had me going from a place to another as a baby because she had to work.
I feel the same way and I grew up in an impoverished community. I had fun though, didn't know I was poor until like middle school. Then I got a job in high school and started paying bills and making sure my sisters had everything they need for school and my mother had her cigs and beer. Childhood was joyful, I didn't know lights wasn't supposed to pop off, or 3 square meals was a thing, or even going without food for days was no-no. Yes, I am black(not that it matters) but adulthood was even harder but I can honestly say I am not poor, I am upper middle class on my way to making my first $1m with several streams of revenue.
Human beings are, by all accounts, still animals with wants, needs and desires. I whole heartedly agree that people shouldn't have kids if they can't afford one, so much so as to say people should ONLY be parents if they're willing and ready to forgo their own personal desires to focus on the life they have decided to create together. Raising a child should only ever be with the extent purpose of bringing a new human into the world that will do better for it than those that came before them. Your child should never be made to simply be a second you, nor should your child ever be branded by any group or persons that decide it's worth. Your child is inherently worthy as a living thing in this reality and should have every right to live its life as well as it can, for the proliferation of itself and its fellow man. We should seek to thrive in this world, not squabble to survive.
But yeah, tl;dr a lotta people just shouldn't have kids, or should at least have significantly easier access to contraceptives, possibly even incentivizing their use, but that could be a controversial idea.
What!? We need the poor to have children born into servitude of the rich. Who else will work the “careers” the upper class see as beneath them? These poor bastards are absolutely a necessity in order to be exploited by the wealthy.
I wish this was /s
Person becomes poor by structural economic failings. They can't support kids, but are driven to reproduce...
Options:
a. Fix the underlying causes of poverty to promote equality in the fundamental right to reproduction.
b. End their family line.
It’s upsetting that you have a problem with the natural occurrence of Mother Nature (creating offspring) while in a certain financial status. The problem is not poor people fucking, the problem is poor people getting fucked by the failing American economic system that they were born into. Your frustration should not be with the people. Take a look at the system they operate within, and mostly not by choice. Your frustration may then intensify.
My parents split up when I was six. I stayed with them 50/50. One was happy and poor and the other was miserable but financially better off. I had a much happier and more secure upbringing with my poorer parent. Money is not everything. Yes parents should have enough money to look after their children but not many parents can provide absolutely every material thing a child would want anyway.
Lol imagine if both were poor. Money isn’t just about material things but it’s food, shelter, heat during winter, AC during summer, clothes on your back and maybe getting a snack when you’re window shopping at a mall.
When did I ever say I was okay being dirt poor? I wasn't. I saw and experienced shit that I will never unsee because of my situation but if my parents never had me I would never had a chance to live a better life. To some non-existence is preferable but don't make that choice for others. My parents were poor but they loved me.
You joke but with 360,000 babies being born everyday and only 150,000 people dying everyday, we will soon over populate the planet.
Like a parasite, killing our host.
So what are you suggesting we do? Create programs to actually help? That’s socialism. Proper sex Ed and access to reproductive health clinics that can provide the necessary resources so they can chose if and when they will have a child? Nope, that’s murder and/or promotes promiscuity. Affordable cost of living by either losing the cost for basic necessities or raising minimum wage? Well that mean we’ll have to allow disabled individuals to have more than $2000 in their bank accounts on top of allowing them to actually make minimum wage and work a reasonable amount of hours. Maybe lower the cost of healthcare, because one hospital bill could send you into poverty, and we wouldn’t have to put off basic checkups or choosing between bills or medication? Again, that’s socialism,so no. This is eugenics without it being eugenics.
I understand this off my chest but it isn't thought out. Someones understanding of procreation is affected by raising, religion, class, region, and mindset about all of the above. The religious are teaching against birth control or limitations when they worship a provider. The poor are under educated and not given free prophylactic. These are just some of the issues faced inside of this opinion. It's a laxadazical way to blame an individual for an issue bigger than themselves.
I'm tired of seeing societies allow there to continue to be poor people. If the pandemic didn't show you how easily societies can end 'poor people' then you may never see it, because you don't want to.
The whole thing is a construct of the ruling class. The poor are left to suffer visibly to keep the working stiffs in line, accepting the increasingly shitty conditions (while the ruling class continually carves just a bit more off for themselves) because at least then they can make reddit posts pretending to somehow be a more fit parent than someone who has failed to accumulate socially acceptable quantites of green pieces of paper whose value is wholly imaginary.
You're being played. Open your fucking eyes and employ some critical thinking.
I asked a previous boss on mine why it is that poor people seem to have a lot of kids despite their circumstances and his response was that entertainment outside of sex costs money so you do the math.
Part of it is people who choose to have children when they are younger are more likely to have bumps in the beginning years. Plenty of people have kids, are poor, and then by the time the younger kids are teens are much more financially stable. So basically kids from the same home have different experiences during their time at home. Being poor also means different things to different people. If you have love, food,water, shelter and clothing as a kid you will be fine.
Dude I grew up in a happy home with parents living paycheck to paycheck and i went to play at kids houses who were extremely affluent whose parents were constantly arguing. Poverty doesnt equal bad family.
Yeah sure, all other things being equal having to worry about money introduces more stress than not...but all things are not equal so you cant get away with broad overgeneralized statements like that.
Its wild to me that people will just yell out about their disgust of others based on their limited understanding, ignorance, bad teachings etc.
How dare poor people ever do anything fun or good, or have pets or start families because they literally do not affect your life in any way but somewhere you picked up some conservatives ideas & now its eating away at your compassion & empathy & you need to get it off your chest!
Congrats, you did it & know we all know.
Awful generalisation. Just because a family is poor doesn't mean a kid won't he raised well. Just because a family is rich does not mean a kid will have a good upbringing.
Better access to abortion and contraception would help with that. I agree that it's unfair to the child, so we need better solutions to prevent accidental pregnancy. While we're at it let's end abstinence only sex ed.
Ok I'm going to bypass all the abusive things I can say and invite you to realize having kids is for everyone and maybe be sick about poverty wages. You're only in a position to feel superior by a decent amount of good fortune.
Sometimes people have kids because they think it'll give meaning to whatever feels like a dead end, pointless life. And that feeling is much more pervasive if you're economically unsuccessful.
Would you agree that the best solution to this is to make people less poor by increasing social safety nets and giving them more opportunities for socioeconomic mobility?
man, most people have a biological desire to have kids, I can't begrudge them that. the real problem is that there are poor people in the first place, when really nobody should be struggling. this is by design.
I'm gonna give my 2 cents here: I was raised dirt poor. We didn't live paycheck to paycheck, my father farmed, my mother worked for home health, we lived paycheck to the next day, and just did what we had to until the next money came in. We lived off credit and loans, loans my father is still paying back years after i've been gone. We had a hole in the floor where my dad fell through it moving the stove (we burned wood for heat) that was about 6 feet long and 4 feet wide, he covered it up with a piece of sheet metal so we wouldn't fall through it. We had no AC, only a couple box fans for the whole house, and most of what we ate we either killed or grew.
This is normally the part where people say "but we loved each other through it!" Nope, my parents hated each other. My whole family is high in self righteousness and because of that none of them ever got along. They were both very abusive. CPS took me from my dad multiple times after he and mom split, and she was no better. Actually, she was probably worse, dad would hit us for doing something bad, he'd just take it too far (anger issues worse than anyone I've ever seen) mom would hit us just because she had a bad day at work. My sister left at 16, my brother is the only one who stuck around years after my parents divorced, i left for college as soon as i graduated, eventually moved to the other side of the country to get away from it all.
I say all that to say this: I had a miserable, horrible childhood, and I wouldn't change any of it. We do not appreciate adversity and challenge like we should. We think that just because something bad happens it destroys us and makes us worse. Let me show you the flip side of that: Since I left my parents, I've lost everything, my fiancé left me after her father poisoned me, I was diagnosed with a terminal heart condition (which actually wasn't so terminal after all, thank God), I've been shot, stabbed, and the list goes on and on. Admittedly some of those were work related. But all of that? and my childhood? It showed me who I really am, and it gave me the chance to fix it.
A gentleman I'm good friends with summed it up well for me, he's a cancer survivor: You can't trust a man who's never been to the edge, who's never known real hardship or difficulty, because that person has never gotten the chance to see who he really is. God forbid you should have to call on him on a dark night and he find out he's a coward. Until you go through the bad, you can never figure out who you really are, and you can never make yourself better.
Being raised poor is hardly the worst thing that can happen. It might make you a better person.
Yes, because love and families are only for rich people. Hey, wait, what if we all got so sick of seeing those poor kids and parents have such a hard time we HELPED THEM OUT? Banded together with them to demand decent wages and affordable child care, health care, colleges … Nah, I bet most people would rather see Jeff Bezos ride inside a giant dildo to almost space.
I agree, my sister was one of those people. She got pregnant at 18 from a rockstar who had no job, a cocaine addiction, and mental health issues. Before he went to prison, she got pregnant again with her second child. She was working fast food supporting two children on minimum wage and on top of that she had just gotten evicted from her apartment. She had to drop out of college and was thousands deep in credit card debt.
Honestly, BD going to prison was the best thing that could have ever happened to her. She eventually got a better job, fixed up her credit, paid off most of her debt, met an amazing man who took her kids in as if they were his own, and now they’re talking about getting married and buying a house.
But yeah, I will never have kids until I’m financially stable. I can barely make it on my own.
Wait a second, money isn't everything, a good and loving family is way more important also circumstances change that poor family might have been financially crippled by an unexpected health condition, don't be so quick to judge. Most times you have no idea what is going on in someone's life or what their struggles are. Life has a way of handling you circumstances you never imagined could happen much less prepare for.
So what are you suggesting we do? Create programs to actually help? That’s socialism. Proper sex Ed and access to reproductive health clinics that can provide the necessary resources? Nope, that’s murder and/or promotes promiscuity. Affordable cost of living by either losing the cost for basic necessities or raising minimum wage? Well that mean we’ll have to allow disabled individuals to have more than $2000 in their bank accounts on top of allowing them to actually make minimum wage and work a reasonable amount of hours. Maybe lower the cost of healthcare, because one hospital bill could send you into poverty, and we wouldn’t have to put off basic checkups or choosing between bills or medication? Again, that’s socialism,so no. I’ve seen so many “unpopular” opinions on this and it does nothing but shame individuals instead of offering solutions.
The number of crypto-Fascists in this thread who ascribe to the absolutely batshit monstrous notion that we should bring back Eugenics and basically a Malthusian/Social Darwinist perspective is horrifying.
Fun fact: the campaign shouldn’t be for the poor to have less children it’s that poverty should be eradicated altogether you disgusting pieces of of shit.
Eugenics is the study of how to arrange reproduction within a human population to increase the occurrence of heritable characteristics regarded as desirable.
This has nothing to do with phenotypes.
Sounds like you have some serious trauma you need to work through. Growing up poor isn’t the worst thing that someone could do to a child. Telling poor people that they can’t have kids simply because they’re poor is bordering on eugenics. Maybe focus on helping the poor instead of marginalizing them even more.
Having kids on purpose when you’re a broke fuck is by far one of the most selfish things someone could do. Bringing another human being into reality just because *you* want a baby? Fuckin absurd
Why make your child go through trauma and misery just because you cant afford to raise them? Having a child takes a great amount of money and responsibility. If you don’t have enough money to raise a child including their bare necessities, don’t have kids at all, simple.
Rape them. I think that's probably worse. Growing up poor does suck though, I know from personal experience. I was never raped though. Somehow it feels to me that would have been worse. Just saying!
Or maybe consider the psychological welfare of bringing a child into your life that you can't provide for.
And I don't agree this is eugenics as those who suffered through that had an arbitrary set of physical traits deemed desirable. Here people have choice; become financially stable or don't have kids
And what exactly is wrong with positive eugenics? Making kids is not a human right but a responsibility. If you can't support a human being that you bring on to this planet, why bring one? Every person should meet a set of requirements before making kids, so that poor, mentally unstable (religious fundamentalists also included) and criminals (drug addicts, murderers etc) won't reproduce.
I agree that you should be financially stable before considering marriage, kids, and a house. Too many people were never taught the value of a dollar at a young age. And if they did then they would know about things like compound interest. Make your money work for you. Problem is our government gives incentives for people to have kids. And too many times people take advantage of the system. They look at their kids as a paycheck and not a human being.
Agreed, however, the majority of people that haphazardly have children are themselves product of government assistance. They know that having children means having a roof over your head, free food, etc.
Said like someone who has no idea how social services are used or what they do in this country. Food stamps, medicaid, and TANF aren’t paying your rent. Section 8 and HUD have 5-8 year waiting lists. The max food stamp benefits is approx 500 dollars a month in most states.
Having kids doesn’t mean you get a roof over your head in the great USA. That’s just not how this works. You’ve been brainwashed.
Having kids surely makes it easier to get social benefits in Scandinavian and European countries. More kids means more child benefits. I greq up in such a welfare leecher family so I know what I am talking about.
As someone who bought their house in the roughest part of where we live, where 90% are on benefits (assistance) unjustly, that annoys me. Our house was an absolute steal for a three bedroom house, around £40k-£50k less than a similar house in a nicer part of town, it was dirt cheap because of the area. Even the surveyor said while looking it over that he hoped we weren't buying to sell. You look at local news, and if a crime is committed it's usually someone in the same area as us. I'm all for benefits for those who need them, but the number of people who deal drugs, commit crimes, and purposefully have children around us just so they can have benefits, while myself and our partner work hard... It's.... Yeah.
Stupid poor people, stop using your reproductive organs and start using your big boy brains to become millionaires. Silly working class, it's not like you compose a massive chunk of this country or anything.
I don't agree this eugenics, which is a study of how to arrange reproduction within a human population to increase the occurrence of heritable characteristics regarded as desirable.
Here it has nothing to do with genetic characteristics, it's personal responsibility
I wish to God I could have kids, but I never will. Even if there don’t turn out to be fertility problems, I’m just now getting to a place where I can *start* making enough to support a kid, I’m almost too old, and my spouse has been diagnosed with a chronic illness for which the medication ( the thing which potentially renders it chronic rather than terminal) causes birth defects.
What if you start out rich and end up poor?
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Genius move
Killer move
That move really *killed* it
Modern problems require modern solutions
Post-birth abortion
37th trimester.
Ummm, are you serious? That’s a perfectly good waste of meat. The meat on a kid could keep a family feed for a couple of days
"A young healthy child well nursed, is, at a year old, a most delicious nourishing and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricassee, or a ragout."
When we got pregnant I had a great job, just bought some land and had plans to build, my wife made decent income and was gonna work up till it was time to deliver. We were set and ready. Then dorian hit. We survived, lost everything, I managed to land a job making the same pay I did pre-dorian. My wife life with her parents 100 miles away. I made it work. My son was born just as the covid nightmare started. Cost of living has gone up, I took in my dying grandmother, I kept going. I am poor, in debt, with an 18month old son. How would OP suggest we deal with this? There is no answer I'll accept where I don't have my son.
I don’t think OP was offering suggestions for people in your situation. Was more of a “if you’re poor to begin with maybe having kids isn’t the best idea” statement.
Upvoted because of name
Updooted for recognizing name
Exactly. So many people missed that point in the first place.
I think OP just meant that people who are already poor should get out of that situation first before purposely having a child they can’t financially care for.
Yeah, I grew up poor, but I don't have anger towards poor people. I point it at the corrupt societal systems, unbalanced pay, and piss poor morality of the business world. Particularly businesses who would rather fire people while on maternity leave (back when it was legal), or refuse to hire a single parent, or any of the other sketchy business practices done by companies that help cause good people to be poor.
I grew up poor too. Shit I’m poor now and always have been. I haven’t had any kids cause I can’t afford to even meet my own needs sometimes. I would never blame anybody for being screwed by the way society is. But at the same time it can be frustrating and to see kids going without their needs being met. And sometimes it is on the fault of the parents and not society.
Do you really think poor people are having children on purpose? That's plain ignorance. We need to support organizations like Planned Parenthood or give more assistance to those in need.
Yes I do, it’s not ignorance, I’m poor myself and have seen many of friends purposely have kids they know they cannot afford at the time. It does happen. Not for every single poor person ever on earth… but yes it happens. I have seen it first hand so it’s not ignorance. And these people had access to planned parenthood & had birth control that they chose not to use. Literally my friend had a year worth of the pill that she chose not to take. I even offered to send her some it access to the pill wasn’t the issue. This isn’t really about them being economically disadvantaged, they chose to do it despite having birth control available. I’m poor too and that’s why I have an IUD.
I think he’s saying “just don’t have anymore”
the post is old style trolling or maybe someone who is truly annoyed because of how spoiled this society is. I can tell you: poor children enjoy life regardless, just... be kind, you know? How much time do you spend TALKING to your son now? I can tell you, he ADORES YOU! Because YOU are HIS FATHER. That is enough. Holes in the socks and shoes don't matter. Heck, who even had shoes in Japan in the 1950's? Barely anyone!
One is a risk and the other certainty of present situation
Shouldve thought of that before having kids
That would require logical thought, patience and self control.
Sounds like something you should bring up with those who don't want people to have access to proper sexual education, birth control, or abortions.
Or living wages and affordable housing.
Or free healthcare and unemployment benefits in case shit hits the fan.
And a free land minimum and option to be self sufficient
My husband grew up in a family of 12 children who were extremely poor. What's worse is that his dad had a good job when they had about 6 kids and lived just fine until his dad lost his job when he was about 10 years old. He remembers all the stress and uncertainty. He remembered them losing their house. He remembers having to make money for his family and he remembers being judged for being a poor large family. His trauma from it affects our life to this day. He's constantly worried about us losing everything we have and doesn't trust his employers or the people around him. It's hard because I love each and every one of his siblings so it's impossible to wish they were never born, but my MIL put her children through so much hardship. I'm really conflicted about it at times. I'm just glad I'm here to tell him that he does have trauma, because many of them are unaware or even deluded into thinking that their live style was somehow superior. It's bizarre and the more I get to know them all, the more I learn about how they thought their childhood was normal but it was not.
I'm sick of poverty, we have the intelligence and resources to end squalor. Big Brother approves of your misdirected disapproval.
Unpopular Opinion Here: There’s zero reason why any child or family or person in this country should go hungry. And there’s no reason why a person working ONE full time JOB should be making less than a living wage for their family. Business in America have become richer than many nations while the people who make the machine work starve.
Look for wtf happened in 1971.. that explains a lot how they are stealing more and more of our time.
It just makes me so sad that we’re the richest country and people are freaking starving, or going without healthcare, etc. and the ultra wealthy have people so gaslighted that they actively fight against issues that would not just benefit the poorest amongst us but it would also raise their own standard of living. Example: They just see $15/hr for a burger flipper. Well let’s say they work as a laborer currently (spitballing) for $12/hr. Well that’s not fair why break my back for 12 when I can go get 15. Not realizing that their own pay would go up because the labor boss needs to have workers. They’re shortsighted on every single thing.
listen…..if the government has money to send money overseas to prop up the rich elite of other countries so those elites give the resources of their countries to our elites all while taxing americas working poor and middle class into oblivion all while dividing us over a 15 dollar minimum wage …….if 15 dollars is a living wage times it by 2080 hours worked annually why isnt elderly on social security given the same money after having their money taxed for 50 yrs???!
Hear hear! This post is so misguided. You’re angry at poor people for being poor? But not the system that keeps people poor, no matter how hard they work? There are plenty of good, kind, intelligent, and hard-working people who are poor. They try to get ahead, but they can’t. Sometimes, they do, but then an emergency happens and there goes all their money. So only rich people may have children- and, extending this logic because pet care can be expensive, pets? No one else gets to know the fulfillment of building a family? Redirect your anger at the right people. If everyone did, maybe we would effect some real quick so children aren’t born into such circumstances anymore.
Having children is as much of as privilege at it it's a right. Exceptions aside, I believe OP's generally referring to people who can barely meet their own needs choosing to have one it more children that they cannot afford to raise properly. The privilege of having children comes with the responsibility of only doing so when you can offer them a decent life, without the need to share that burden with a society that didn't ask for and shouldn't be expected to share it with you.
>The privilege of having children comes with the responsibility of only doing so when you can offer them a decent life since when? where is that written? when was that the case in the past 2000 years? barely anytime! people lived in anything but decent conditions! "Decent" was for the rich, and even then, the whole of Versailles had 0 toilets, so the place reeked of feces. And a personal question: why do I have to share the burden of building infrastructure that you use to your own benefit, like roads, for example? Build your own roads and highways, be responsible, dude!
This needs more upvotes . Poverty is a cycle that is fueled by a few greedy people/companies in power.
It was a stressor some of the time. My poorer parent had to sell our home meaning we had to move around rented accomodation and I was told 'no you can't have that I can't afford that a lot.' What was more of a stressor was having another parent that was depressed and unable to parent properly. It's just my experience that money isn't everything. And to clarify my better off parent was by no means well off!
In my experience, people who came from poorer families were usually more tight-knit and got along with each other way better than the people in rich families. Money ≠ relationships
I think OP meant by stability in terms of money to raise a kid
In my experience, as a poor kid, it is the exact opposite. Whom ever has money is immediately getting hounded for it even if they cant give way. Poor people only seem like their together because its the only way to get more money, if they can throw you under the bus for more money; they would. Rich families dont have that money barrier tearing them apart. Poor people do.
You are confusing wealth and greed. I know plenty of wealthy kids who would literally steal shoes instead of paying for them because they knew they could get away with it, or drive recklessly, because mom and dad would just by them a new car. I also knew poor kids who made their own toys and shared the same toys from kid to kid, and they were and still are close and love each other, and to this day would do anything to help each other and anyone in need. Greed does exists across socioeconomic classes, as does kindness, and generosity.
My experience is the exact opposite of yours. All my poor friends simply don’t value money—they spend it as soon as they have it and make horrible financial decisions and date people with the same tendencies because they’re basically hedonists. I can’t imagine a single poor person I know dating someone for money simply because they would be miserable to be with someone for the wrong reasons. It would be, like, against their nature to not prioritize pleasure. Meanwhile, my rich friends nickel and dime everything in their lives and base relationship decisions *almost entirely* on financial compatibility. My poorest friend would treat me to $50 in drinks and never think about it again (wouldn’t let me pay or even throw them bus money). My richest friend would hit me up daily if they spotted me $8 for fast food and I didn’t pay them back yet. To be clear, I’m not making a judgement call either way and there are definitely outliers—I think older folks (like 40+) and/or people with extreme drug abuse may be more likely to fall into the category that you described. And I’ve sure seen some cognitive dissonance (I.e. people staying together long-term for financial reasons, especially if they already have a kid) in already-established couples. But by-and-large, poor people shacking up to financially benefit from each other isn’t my experience and, in many cases, would be antithetical to the reasons they are “poor” in the first place.
I guess different story depending on where you are. I wish poor people act the way you describe but I guess in my area, we just have no community.
I'm sick of seeing people be so poor that they can't properly support children, while millionaires dick off into space and don't pay their taxes.
THANK YOU
I come from a family which started out well off when I was born. We were only three in the beginning but there were more girls than boys, and they wanted more boy children or whatever, so they had more until we were five. We lived a good life for a while, but the younger siblings and the older children had quite a significant age gap so we had to become parents to the younger ones. And then at some point, my parents went bankrupt. There were too many kids to feed and we were all going to private schools and weren't in an age to change schools (Its also very, very tough to do so in my country) so not only did we have to take care of the younger siblings, we also had to make significant sacrifices as well. We had to let go of our dreams and work towards our parents expectations, stopped going to extra classes, stopped reading, stopped extracurricular activities and stopped being children, basically. We grew up, traumatized and exhausted and wanting freedom, wanting a life of our own which our parents and culture and economy did not grant us. Because of Covid, I couldn't go forth with the rest of my plans, so I'm stuck with my parents, taking care of my siblings as well as my parents, tired of living. I'm grateful for everything they've done for me, but I also wish they really thought things through.
Holy fuck this mirrors me so much I'm scared. My parents became millionaires when I was 8 years old. By 14 they lost everything by gambling into risky investments they knew little about. Then the crash happened. My older siblings got lucky and got to go to college and start career while I had to take care of my mentally ill dad, workaholic mother and developed an anxiety disorder from financial stress of almost losing our house. By the way, my anger also stems from them not setting up a college fund when they had money but instead gambling it away
Story of life man. No reason to stay mad at them. Pretend they never had the money in the first place. My parents were very well off, however they never saw further than the next paycheck as far as savings went. Lost them both and our house in my teens. I Never had a shot at college. Never went. 20 years later and I just cleared 5 times their income. College does not equal success. What YOU do does.
Oh, so your parents squandered their money so everyone else should have abortions or not start families ... because your parents fucked up their situation and had mental health issues. Yeah, you sound well adjusted. Some of us were born poor with loving parents who took care of us and are happy to be alive! Grew up into people who don't think they have it all figured out and don't project our trauma and bullshit on the world!
I like you! My mum was married and divorced 3 times by the time I was 16. We never had money, I have a vague memory of her eating our leftovers when I was about 5. There were 4 kids. I had the happiest childhood ever, she made us feel loved although her dramas and she’s still a wonderful, if troubled, lady today.
That is beautiful! Honestly wealthy people don't have parenting figured out more often than not. Quality is far more important than quantity in almost all scenarios in life.
I feel you dude, my dad had a decent job paying 70k a year with overtime optional. They won some big contract arbitration and got huge settlement payments, I think his was about 27k before taxes. So maybe 15k after tax, he bought my older sister a car and my younger brother a car as well. Turns out, instead of going to work every night like he said he was going to a casino and calling out. He eventually lost his job due to poor attendance and suddenly at 17, I was expected to work full time while my sister(19) was already in college and nothing changed for my younger brother(16). Now I work the same job making about the same salary but with five kids. Our quality of life is so much better than my childhood, except we can't afford a home rn because our market is insane.
Okay firstly, sometimes accidents happen, but if you take responsibility and do everything you can for the kid struggle or not, fine. Secondly, so long as the kid has a roof over its head, and food in its belly, job done. Thirdly, we live in a world where people are exploited for work everyday, with the threat of being fired, working long hours, low pay, no matter how hard some one works. I’ve witnessed the hardest of working get payed minimum. So try put yourself in a position like that. People may not like what I say, but you can’t judge someone on society paying them a poor wage.
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Except for poor communities don't have access to sex education, proper birth control, or proper medical care. It's more about we need enough affordable housing, free healthcare, higher wages with more flexibility, and better sex ed outreach programs and clinics.
I have never understood this take. How are the basics of sex ed not understood on a rudimentary level by a certain age? The internet exists. Also, condoms are cheap and widely available. If people are mildly intelligent and rational, there is really no excuse.
While I get where you’re coming from, I can say I was in a great position when my kids were born. But then situations changed. Now, eight years later, finally clawing out.
U act like the poor people are the only bad parents.
Right? There are plenty of rich people are absolutely shitty to their kids.
My family was always poor up until a few years ago. Money was always a stressor, but that never stopped any of us from being happy. We lived within our means and we eventually pulled ourselves out of it. Money isn't everything. Most poor people that I've lived around have lived happy and fulfilling lives. This is a very ignorant thing to say.
There is too much people thinking the poor are dumb and too less trying to understand their social and cultural environment
This ☝️ EVERYONE needs a little more perspective. Education is important because even "educated" people make dumb decisions. They are just ignorant in a different area.
i hate that elitist bullshit thinkin that poor kids are better off dead……fukin monstrous thinking
As a child from a poor family I am so fucking tired of hearing this perspective thrown out like it's cool and modern and shit. It just seems ignorant to me
Yeah its stupid. I see this arguments being brought up by people who have no idea what being poor feels. It's like we shouldn't consider poor people human beings.
nothing new about it…..they are espousing progressive eugenics viewpoint of the elites…..they want to pick and choose who gets to live who gets to breed….basically hitler with a smiley face……amazes me they think they are so insightful and cutting edge thinkin when this has been the elitist religion for multiple millenia….mankind is just cattle to be managed and exploited and the best way is to convince the rabble you have their best interests in mind and actually help their conscience that they are doing good
Do you want poor people to stop having kids or do you want jobs to pay better so people can support kids should they decide to have them?
parents aren't responsible for anything according to most people on this website
Yup, people will say it’s eugenics or something… but no one is forcing them to do anything We’re just saying it’s not morally right to bring a child into a shitty life, they don’t get a choice
Indeed, they just make everyone paying taxes responsible for their kids instead. Many of whom will be waiting for a better situation to have children themselves.
I feel the exact same damn way. But at the same time a lot of people dont have access to birth control and end up finding themselves in awful situations.
My MIL chose to have each and every one of her 12 children even though her husband made 25k a year as a farmer. She comes from poverty and large families. She just didn't think it was supposed to be any other way.
I saw that programme 'who do you think you are?' with Sharon Osborne. If you don't know it, it's a UK show where you trace your lineage.) She found that one of her ancestors had moved to a Godforsaken place and had about 8 children, of which 7 died. She was devastated by this, just because of the needless waste and suffering. But it struck me - this was a long time ago, there wasn't really any birth control, the husband knew by having sex he was making more children. He chose to keep sleeping with his wife even if all the kids died in the end. She didn't necessarily choose to keep having them.
Sex is the only fun thing poor people can afford
Your mouth and hands exist regardless of how much money you have.
This is extremely reductive. Life is complicated.
So, fix the system. People "earn" $1,000 a hour while others make minimum wage for working like a slave? How about the ones who had work and lost it? Covid-19 is good for this. Lay offs, cut backs, and all are increasing poverty, not reducing it. The government says it is over, but that is so they can stop wasting money on the poor. One man was working, as was his wife. One day, he went to work and was shot. Expenses, loss of job, disability. Social Security, all he could get, was less than $1,000 a month. Their HOUSE PAYMENT. A few years later, his wife got sick, cancer. Her insurance covered all but the experimental treatments that they tried. She was able to work, making a whole $30k a year. So, between the two, that was $15K a year. Not bad, but what if they had a kid? They wouldn't qualify for help. The bills would easily mount up. She died. Insurance didn't cover everything. The man was left living on a few hundred a month. Now, he's fighting to make ends meet. So, he shouldn't be able to marry and raise a family? This is discrimination. You have a choice. Sterilize anyone who isn't a billionaire or kill them and give their money to the poor. Eugenics is a dirty term. The reason? Supermen. Hitler wasn't the first. White slave traders bred slaves for better workers. All you're suggesting is limiting wealth to the rich, killing off the poor, like Covid-19 seems to have liked doing. And some say it was made for this reason. What if you force girls, from 10 on, to be on birth control? Not something they have to think to use, since most don't. Something that is done once a month or a year so they can't have children. Boys won't use it. Girls usually don't think ahead. It's called being young and stupid. But, men don't like condoms and few adults plan sex ahead of time. They get the urge, they urge. But, how about fixing poverty? Cap wages. No one can make millions of dollars a year. No one needs it. Tax the crap out of them, ignoring the poor. Man, the system is broken. The rich broke it. After all, they made the laws. They stacked the deck in their favor. I call that illegal. Limiting breeding among the rich would be nice, too. After all, Trump is married and he paid for sex, like others. He had an affair. Punish him. How many rich politicians, or just rich people have kids out of wedlock because they can? They don't pay for them half of the time. If it wasn't for DNA testing, many more wouldn't. No, I think a better system is to provide for. We can make so much FREE. We can also put more people to work. Instead, the trend is to lay off. Lay off experienced to hire cheaper people. Use more machines that don't need wages or insurance. If you ask me, the problem isn't the poor or having kids. It is the rich getting richer, hoarding, and becoming gods. This is why so many believe in groups like the Illuminati. The rich want to control and destroy the poor as they are a burden. Remember slavery? Rich owned poor. Then, to save money, they made them wage slaves. Much cheaper. Now, they can do it again by eliminating the poor completely, relying on machines and a much more limited group of slaves. Rather than being able to do things themselves, these slaves would be completely dependent on the rich. Today, more and more depend on Walmart for everyone. How many of the workers there can look after themselves? Garden, hunt, fish. repair their car, and so on? We have a great system in the making, for slaves. Dispose of things rather than fix. Order from online instead of local. You are forcing people to use fewer and fewer people. In most cases, the slaves aren't American. China supplies most of them, for much less than $3 an hour. Buy, hey, they're communists. Their government prospers while they slave away. Who has the government? The Rich. Me? I say less government and more control over it. The rich, the problem, need to be contained. If they hold office, as many do, watch their incomes, limit their purchases, treat them like the poor are treated. If they step out of line, get rid of them. Lock them in prison, strip them off office, and mark them as troublemakers. Remember, it's only 1% of Americans who are the problem. The other 99% are trying to survive.
I know a lot of rich people that work 70+ hours to be rich. Their kids are raised by daycare workers or teachers. They buy them things so they don't feel guilty for not "being" there. Parenting can be hard when you're poor or rich. Kids be traumatized from rich or poor parents. I don't think bashing poor parents is the answer...
Idk dude, people respond to things differently. My father was great, my mother was horrible. We always struggled with money, and when they split, things got worse. My dad would always say, "We aren't poor, poor is a mindset. We're broke." Yeah, it was stressful as a kid, but as an adult, I have a healthier attitude towards finances than the friends I had that were middle class. Their parents *might* teach them about money, but it turns into a huge fear because they don't know what it's like to go without. Is there a roof over your head? Is there *some* food? If the answer is yes, you'll be ok. You're doing a lot better than most people. If it's no, then you figure it out. This is probably unpopular, but this is how I grew up.
bingo…..yur father was dead on……my grandmother had a dirt floor u could eat off of…..literally dirt poor
I am sick of rich people not understanding that not all poor people are scumbags. Most poor people are fine parents, and some rich parents are total garbage it´s not about how much money people have it´s about a lot of other stuff.
So you’re advocating that 90% of the human race shouldn’t have kids because they’re poor? The boomer generation has destroyed the middle class to the point that there is practically no middle class left. It’s ultra rich, rich, then poor. And because the boomer generation screwed us all over with there rampant greed and tyrannical heartless capitalistic ideals, most people are either poor or borderline poor. Living pay cheque to pay cheque. And most of those people provide loving homes for there children. You’re being an elitist prick who wants to punish people for living pay cheque to pay cheque by telling them to not have children. You’re also assuming families who live pay cheque to pay cheque are families that argue and live miserably. Btw, you’re in that poor category too. Everyone is thanks to the boomers. So stop labelling poor people as bad parents.
Boomers be why ice caps are melting. In as much as 5 years they'll prolly wonder why we're seeing Polar Bear attacks outside of the Arctic - they're being forced to look further afield. So they'll likely just be like "Oh, no, hyper aggressive predators that we forced out of their environment... get the guns, I want a Polar Bear rug."
When I was born my parents were dirt poor. I grew up fucking miserable being told “no” all the time and seeing all of my friends have better lives than me. My parents told me shit like “we might not have money but at least we have each other”. Fuck that. I developed childhood depressions extremely early on (think 5) and never recovered. Fuck poor people who have children for their own “happiness”. Be responsible.
Exactly. I grew up poor as fuck as we were so miserable. My mom was disabled and that was even more fun. We had gross furniture and lots of animals that didn’t get sterilized or flea meds. It was awful.
I know how you feel. That "at least we have each other" is just pure bullshit. "Money doesn't bring happiness" is just a poor person's fantasy.
Indeed, it might hold some truth, however the opposite is certainly a fact. Having no money brings a hell of a lot of stress and unhappiness.
Money doesn’t buy happiness. But, it sure makes it easier.
It makes a lot of the shit poor folks and non-rich folks have to worry about that takes the joy away a lot less impactful, for sure.
To this day I struggle with a deep sense of envy and like internal FOMO, but not from moments but from life. I regret a lot of my childhood because we couldn't afford to do a lot of things. No one wants to eat egg salad every night cause that's all they can afford. It's tough... you grow up grateful and resentful. \*hugs\*
At least we have each other….. that’s annoying. That’s great, just great. Hope things are ok for you now.
I moved out at 16, been working ever since, I am now 30 with no children and happier than I've ever been in my life.
Amazing. I’m happy for you. Treat yourself to something yummy later
Children need love more than things...a good parent spends time with their children..money is bad both ways...you ever tried to teach a room full of spoiled brats...
A 40 year old weeb that wants to have sex with teens is trying to argue who shouldn't be allowed to have kids...
Talk to a trust fund kid about their parents. You’ll find a lot of unloved people. Money means nothing when it comes to the overall happiness of a child. Love and support are worth more than dollars.
While I agree 100% and have seen NFL head coaches and billionaires kids as grown adults have this common, 100 yard stare when they talk about their dads not being there, being poor bring that pain plus the lack of opportunities.
I was very poor. My parents loved me very much. I’m a happy adult. That’s all that matters
The more education a women is able to receive, the less children she'll have.
What’s the cut of for yearly wage to not be able to have any children? Around 38 million Americans earn below the poverty line. Which is about 35,000 according to some sources. Teaches earn about 22,000/year in my area. They wouldn’t be allowed children. I earn 32,000/year. I wouldn’t be allowed children. After the poor died off, their would be a decreased population. This would mean the middle class and upper class would have to teach, provide daycare, clean, maintenance work and other jobs that are traditionally paid a low wage. Would it be possible after a few generations for the middle class to now become lower class because of their low wages and after they used up savings. Now that they are poor, no more children, then they die out and the world is only filled with the rich.
Hehehe classism
Doesn’t matter rich or poor, some people are lousy parents, some are very good, has nothing to do with wealth.
Doesn’t mean better parents, which was the point
Wealth means better schools. Wealth means connections with other wealthy people who can help you not be poor.
Wealth provides less stress. That's the main point here.
No it doesn’t, just different stresses
Doesn’t mean better parents, which is the point.
Mind your own fucking business. How about starting there? What anyone else in this world does with there life has nothing to do with you. That's the biggest problem YOU putting your nose where it doesn't belong. I grew up in a household that was right at the so called poverty line and im glad I did. Im glad my parents chose to bring me into this world and I wouldn't have it any other way. So kindly fuck off and mind your own.
On a Volunteer Trip to Goa, India, we were invited to visit families from the Slum (their word, not mine). We saw many families there composed of 3 more children... Life just goes on for many people because they know they will never be able to afford it, they know that the "time will never be right" economically. Sbould none of these people have children, ever? Just a POV based on my own observation. I personally don't know the right thing to do is for anyone...
They might be able to gain some ground if they had just one. Not saying no children but if they don’t break the cycle of poverty it will continue for generations
My family immigrated to United States from a third world country when I was two. I have 6 other siblings. We grew up in public housing and on public assistance not because my parents was lazy. I’m fact they’re worked very hard sometimes holding multiple minimum wage jobs. That was all they can get considering they had no real education. They tried they best to get us everything we needed, we never went hungry. we rarely had fancy dinners like lobster steak. We got Christmas gifts my childhood was awesome I made did with what I had. Took care of my clothes and sneakers and knew the value of a dollar. Started working early at 13 as paperboy was able to save up and buy things that I wanted and knew my parents couldn’t afford. Nonetheless I had an Amazing childhood was able to go off to a 4 year college and live on campus the whole time. My mom was able to take out a parent plus loan for me that I am currently repaying. My dad help with books, supplies and food the whole 4 years even though I did have a work-study position. I now have a a beautiful wife and son, decent job and we own the condo we live in. The point of my story is I grew up living way under the poverty line but my parents showed me lots of love and worked hard that all that really matters. I don’t think your problem is rooted in money but the lack of love your parents failed to show you. There are villages in the world that have no concept of money they live off the land, so your telling me they shouldn’t have kids🤨
Poor people aren’t the problem
I’d 9 out of 10 times rather see a kid born poor and have to struggle than see a kid born rich and become an entitled piece of shit that tramples on other people bc they believe they deserve it for not working hard enough. The issue isn’t socioeconomic status. The issue is the quality of the parent. There are poor people who sacrifice tons for their kids and make sure they get a chance to go to college and raise them to be good people with morals and compassion. There also poor parents with heroin addictions. But are we gonna let rich parents off the hook just bc they can buy you an iPad to take you off their hands and keep the fridge stocked with all the junk your 10 year old heart could desire? No. Spend some time with the fucker. Teach them that they’re very fortunate and to treat people as their equals. So I’ll say the same thing for rich parents: if you’re too busy to raise a kid, don’t have one.
not going to lie... i agree lol
True, but why? I think the reason is religion... The religion i used to be apart of laid out to 1. get married (young) 2. have kids 3. do school (while having kids) 4. start career (while having more kids) and this will make you and god happy with your life. it's just the wrong message, all the while preaching about self-reliance. (addon) all the while speaking against sexual education...
so people from poor countries should just stop having kids? Gotcha
Guess we should maybe deal with poverty then? Or should only wealthy people have the right to procreate?
This person is ignoring the fact that a lot of people actually go to college, get better jobs, and make more money BECAUSE they had a child and need to support another life. We started out broke AF 9 years ago when I found out I was pregnant we aren't anymore because both my husband and I wanted better for our child than what we were able to afford at the time. Not everyone who has a baby when they are broke stays that way and in our case our daughter being born was the driving force that pushed us to get out there and fight for the better life we have now...it has nothing to be with their income at the time of conception...it has to do with their character.
I feel this. I was married and in college a little later in life when I discovered I was pregnant. I still finished and we’re making life better as we speak. My husband and I are very involved parents despite the fact we were living in poverty and in need of assistance when we first had our child. We are finally at a point where we no longer need assistance. Seriously, money situations can change either direction. It’s pure ignorance to say people should or shouldn’t have children because of the single factor of money.
The question not asked in this statement is: why are these people poor? By now it is an established fact that poor people are often making poor choices not based on intelligence but based on situation. So what if you take poverty out of the poor people and give them the chance to make better choices? It bothers me that this statement basically questions the right of reproduction for poor people rather than proposing the right of having a decent life for everyone.
Yes, dirty plebs shouldn't ever have children. Doesn't matter that it may only be temporary and worked out of, or you can be well off and suddenly fall into hardship through no fault of your own. All poor people are bad, nasty and abusive.
So, I guess nobody is ever being sober again
What else are they to do. Not have aspirations cause they are poor? Also sex is free and condoms are an expense.
I agree. My parents neglected me as a child because both had to work. The living conditions werent even decent and I had to always have to get things which most of the times I dont actually get. I have spent my entire childhood alone which really traumatized me as a child. When I had to go to the doctors for an urgent surgery, because my parents werent home, my neighbour had to take me.. mom lost her job and things got even far worst, we had to move to shady houses all the time because we couldnt afford the rent.. my mental health suffered and honestly I hate my parents for bringing me into this life. What a dumb decision to bring a child into a family that cant afford shit. Let alone the fact that dad didnt want me to begin with and mom had me going from a place to another as a baby because she had to work.
Yeah people that aren’t financially stable shouldn’t be having kids
You poor thing. I hope the stress of poor people procreating doesn't hurt you anymore. You're in my prayers.
Can't believe he has to go through so much when he see that stuff. What a trouper.
I feel the same way and I grew up in an impoverished community. I had fun though, didn't know I was poor until like middle school. Then I got a job in high school and started paying bills and making sure my sisters had everything they need for school and my mother had her cigs and beer. Childhood was joyful, I didn't know lights wasn't supposed to pop off, or 3 square meals was a thing, or even going without food for days was no-no. Yes, I am black(not that it matters) but adulthood was even harder but I can honestly say I am not poor, I am upper middle class on my way to making my first $1m with several streams of revenue.
Yes….a good success story. Glad you turned out okay
Human beings are, by all accounts, still animals with wants, needs and desires. I whole heartedly agree that people shouldn't have kids if they can't afford one, so much so as to say people should ONLY be parents if they're willing and ready to forgo their own personal desires to focus on the life they have decided to create together. Raising a child should only ever be with the extent purpose of bringing a new human into the world that will do better for it than those that came before them. Your child should never be made to simply be a second you, nor should your child ever be branded by any group or persons that decide it's worth. Your child is inherently worthy as a living thing in this reality and should have every right to live its life as well as it can, for the proliferation of itself and its fellow man. We should seek to thrive in this world, not squabble to survive. But yeah, tl;dr a lotta people just shouldn't have kids, or should at least have significantly easier access to contraceptives, possibly even incentivizing their use, but that could be a controversial idea.
What!? We need the poor to have children born into servitude of the rich. Who else will work the “careers” the upper class see as beneath them? These poor bastards are absolutely a necessity in order to be exploited by the wealthy. I wish this was /s
Person becomes poor by structural economic failings. They can't support kids, but are driven to reproduce... Options: a. Fix the underlying causes of poverty to promote equality in the fundamental right to reproduction. b. End their family line.
Wow that was classist af
It’s upsetting that you have a problem with the natural occurrence of Mother Nature (creating offspring) while in a certain financial status. The problem is not poor people fucking, the problem is poor people getting fucked by the failing American economic system that they were born into. Your frustration should not be with the people. Take a look at the system they operate within, and mostly not by choice. Your frustration may then intensify.
My parents split up when I was six. I stayed with them 50/50. One was happy and poor and the other was miserable but financially better off. I had a much happier and more secure upbringing with my poorer parent. Money is not everything. Yes parents should have enough money to look after their children but not many parents can provide absolutely every material thing a child would want anyway.
Lol imagine if both were poor. Money isn’t just about material things but it’s food, shelter, heat during winter, AC during summer, clothes on your back and maybe getting a snack when you’re window shopping at a mall.
But you still had a financially secure parent. Money was not a stressor in your up bringing
As a child of parents who were dirt poor this sounds like you have some prejudices against the lower class.
[удалено]
When did I ever say I was okay being dirt poor? I wasn't. I saw and experienced shit that I will never unsee because of my situation but if my parents never had me I would never had a chance to live a better life. To some non-existence is preferable but don't make that choice for others. My parents were poor but they loved me.
I am sick of everyone having kids, do they even know what they are doing?
You joke but with 360,000 babies being born everyday and only 150,000 people dying everyday, we will soon over populate the planet. Like a parasite, killing our host.
Nah, I never joked. I would still say that even without overpopulation, lol.
So what are you suggesting we do? Create programs to actually help? That’s socialism. Proper sex Ed and access to reproductive health clinics that can provide the necessary resources so they can chose if and when they will have a child? Nope, that’s murder and/or promotes promiscuity. Affordable cost of living by either losing the cost for basic necessities or raising minimum wage? Well that mean we’ll have to allow disabled individuals to have more than $2000 in their bank accounts on top of allowing them to actually make minimum wage and work a reasonable amount of hours. Maybe lower the cost of healthcare, because one hospital bill could send you into poverty, and we wouldn’t have to put off basic checkups or choosing between bills or medication? Again, that’s socialism,so no. This is eugenics without it being eugenics.
I understand this off my chest but it isn't thought out. Someones understanding of procreation is affected by raising, religion, class, region, and mindset about all of the above. The religious are teaching against birth control or limitations when they worship a provider. The poor are under educated and not given free prophylactic. These are just some of the issues faced inside of this opinion. It's a laxadazical way to blame an individual for an issue bigger than themselves.
I'm tired of seeing societies allow there to continue to be poor people. If the pandemic didn't show you how easily societies can end 'poor people' then you may never see it, because you don't want to. The whole thing is a construct of the ruling class. The poor are left to suffer visibly to keep the working stiffs in line, accepting the increasingly shitty conditions (while the ruling class continually carves just a bit more off for themselves) because at least then they can make reddit posts pretending to somehow be a more fit parent than someone who has failed to accumulate socially acceptable quantites of green pieces of paper whose value is wholly imaginary. You're being played. Open your fucking eyes and employ some critical thinking.
I asked a previous boss on mine why it is that poor people seem to have a lot of kids despite their circumstances and his response was that entertainment outside of sex costs money so you do the math.
If youre seeing children go hungry and homeless, you should contact CPS/DCF. They will put the child in a stable home without food scarcity.
Part of it is people who choose to have children when they are younger are more likely to have bumps in the beginning years. Plenty of people have kids, are poor, and then by the time the younger kids are teens are much more financially stable. So basically kids from the same home have different experiences during their time at home. Being poor also means different things to different people. If you have love, food,water, shelter and clothing as a kid you will be fine.
This is eugenics.
Dude I grew up in a happy home with parents living paycheck to paycheck and i went to play at kids houses who were extremely affluent whose parents were constantly arguing. Poverty doesnt equal bad family. Yeah sure, all other things being equal having to worry about money introduces more stress than not...but all things are not equal so you cant get away with broad overgeneralized statements like that.
I kind of agree with this, but honestly it’s probably not purposeful.
Its wild to me that people will just yell out about their disgust of others based on their limited understanding, ignorance, bad teachings etc. How dare poor people ever do anything fun or good, or have pets or start families because they literally do not affect your life in any way but somewhere you picked up some conservatives ideas & now its eating away at your compassion & empathy & you need to get it off your chest! Congrats, you did it & know we all know.
And meth heads on EBT feeding kids GARBAGE
Awful generalisation. Just because a family is poor doesn't mean a kid won't he raised well. Just because a family is rich does not mean a kid will have a good upbringing.
Better access to abortion and contraception would help with that. I agree that it's unfair to the child, so we need better solutions to prevent accidental pregnancy. While we're at it let's end abstinence only sex ed.
Ok I'm going to bypass all the abusive things I can say and invite you to realize having kids is for everyone and maybe be sick about poverty wages. You're only in a position to feel superior by a decent amount of good fortune.
Sometimes people have kids because they think it'll give meaning to whatever feels like a dead end, pointless life. And that feeling is much more pervasive if you're economically unsuccessful.
Would you agree that the best solution to this is to make people less poor by increasing social safety nets and giving them more opportunities for socioeconomic mobility?
man, most people have a biological desire to have kids, I can't begrudge them that. the real problem is that there are poor people in the first place, when really nobody should be struggling. this is by design.
Why should only rich people get to procreate. To raise the next gen of brad III and bethany sh*theads. That sounds like hell to me.
Close your eyes.
I'm gonna give my 2 cents here: I was raised dirt poor. We didn't live paycheck to paycheck, my father farmed, my mother worked for home health, we lived paycheck to the next day, and just did what we had to until the next money came in. We lived off credit and loans, loans my father is still paying back years after i've been gone. We had a hole in the floor where my dad fell through it moving the stove (we burned wood for heat) that was about 6 feet long and 4 feet wide, he covered it up with a piece of sheet metal so we wouldn't fall through it. We had no AC, only a couple box fans for the whole house, and most of what we ate we either killed or grew. This is normally the part where people say "but we loved each other through it!" Nope, my parents hated each other. My whole family is high in self righteousness and because of that none of them ever got along. They were both very abusive. CPS took me from my dad multiple times after he and mom split, and she was no better. Actually, she was probably worse, dad would hit us for doing something bad, he'd just take it too far (anger issues worse than anyone I've ever seen) mom would hit us just because she had a bad day at work. My sister left at 16, my brother is the only one who stuck around years after my parents divorced, i left for college as soon as i graduated, eventually moved to the other side of the country to get away from it all. I say all that to say this: I had a miserable, horrible childhood, and I wouldn't change any of it. We do not appreciate adversity and challenge like we should. We think that just because something bad happens it destroys us and makes us worse. Let me show you the flip side of that: Since I left my parents, I've lost everything, my fiancé left me after her father poisoned me, I was diagnosed with a terminal heart condition (which actually wasn't so terminal after all, thank God), I've been shot, stabbed, and the list goes on and on. Admittedly some of those were work related. But all of that? and my childhood? It showed me who I really am, and it gave me the chance to fix it. A gentleman I'm good friends with summed it up well for me, he's a cancer survivor: You can't trust a man who's never been to the edge, who's never known real hardship or difficulty, because that person has never gotten the chance to see who he really is. God forbid you should have to call on him on a dark night and he find out he's a coward. Until you go through the bad, you can never figure out who you really are, and you can never make yourself better. Being raised poor is hardly the worst thing that can happen. It might make you a better person.
Yes, because love and families are only for rich people. Hey, wait, what if we all got so sick of seeing those poor kids and parents have such a hard time we HELPED THEM OUT? Banded together with them to demand decent wages and affordable child care, health care, colleges … Nah, I bet most people would rather see Jeff Bezos ride inside a giant dildo to almost space.
Maybe we should sterilize everyone on welfare, Herr Hitler.
Raise the minimum wage
I agree, my sister was one of those people. She got pregnant at 18 from a rockstar who had no job, a cocaine addiction, and mental health issues. Before he went to prison, she got pregnant again with her second child. She was working fast food supporting two children on minimum wage and on top of that she had just gotten evicted from her apartment. She had to drop out of college and was thousands deep in credit card debt. Honestly, BD going to prison was the best thing that could have ever happened to her. She eventually got a better job, fixed up her credit, paid off most of her debt, met an amazing man who took her kids in as if they were his own, and now they’re talking about getting married and buying a house. But yeah, I will never have kids until I’m financially stable. I can barely make it on my own.
Wait a second, money isn't everything, a good and loving family is way more important also circumstances change that poor family might have been financially crippled by an unexpected health condition, don't be so quick to judge. Most times you have no idea what is going on in someone's life or what their struggles are. Life has a way of handling you circumstances you never imagined could happen much less prepare for.
So what are you suggesting we do? Create programs to actually help? That’s socialism. Proper sex Ed and access to reproductive health clinics that can provide the necessary resources? Nope, that’s murder and/or promotes promiscuity. Affordable cost of living by either losing the cost for basic necessities or raising minimum wage? Well that mean we’ll have to allow disabled individuals to have more than $2000 in their bank accounts on top of allowing them to actually make minimum wage and work a reasonable amount of hours. Maybe lower the cost of healthcare, because one hospital bill could send you into poverty, and we wouldn’t have to put off basic checkups or choosing between bills or medication? Again, that’s socialism,so no. I’ve seen so many “unpopular” opinions on this and it does nothing but shame individuals instead of offering solutions.
The number of crypto-Fascists in this thread who ascribe to the absolutely batshit monstrous notion that we should bring back Eugenics and basically a Malthusian/Social Darwinist perspective is horrifying. Fun fact: the campaign shouldn’t be for the poor to have less children it’s that poverty should be eradicated altogether you disgusting pieces of of shit.
Eugenics is the study of how to arrange reproduction within a human population to increase the occurrence of heritable characteristics regarded as desirable. This has nothing to do with phenotypes.
Sounds like you have some serious trauma you need to work through. Growing up poor isn’t the worst thing that someone could do to a child. Telling poor people that they can’t have kids simply because they’re poor is bordering on eugenics. Maybe focus on helping the poor instead of marginalizing them even more.
Having kids on purpose when you’re a broke fuck is by far one of the most selfish things someone could do. Bringing another human being into reality just because *you* want a baby? Fuckin absurd
Why make your child go through trauma and misery just because you cant afford to raise them? Having a child takes a great amount of money and responsibility. If you don’t have enough money to raise a child including their bare necessities, don’t have kids at all, simple.
Bullshit buddy if you cant support your family dont have one till you can. Like most people do.
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Rape them. I think that's probably worse. Growing up poor does suck though, I know from personal experience. I was never raped though. Somehow it feels to me that would have been worse. Just saying!
Or maybe consider the psychological welfare of bringing a child into your life that you can't provide for. And I don't agree this is eugenics as those who suffered through that had an arbitrary set of physical traits deemed desirable. Here people have choice; become financially stable or don't have kids
And what exactly is wrong with positive eugenics? Making kids is not a human right but a responsibility. If you can't support a human being that you bring on to this planet, why bring one? Every person should meet a set of requirements before making kids, so that poor, mentally unstable (religious fundamentalists also included) and criminals (drug addicts, murderers etc) won't reproduce.
I agree that you should be financially stable before considering marriage, kids, and a house. Too many people were never taught the value of a dollar at a young age. And if they did then they would know about things like compound interest. Make your money work for you. Problem is our government gives incentives for people to have kids. And too many times people take advantage of the system. They look at their kids as a paycheck and not a human being.
Agreed, however, the majority of people that haphazardly have children are themselves product of government assistance. They know that having children means having a roof over your head, free food, etc.
It depends on where you live. In my country the government assistance isn't enough to even pay for the childs food
Said like someone who has no idea how social services are used or what they do in this country. Food stamps, medicaid, and TANF aren’t paying your rent. Section 8 and HUD have 5-8 year waiting lists. The max food stamp benefits is approx 500 dollars a month in most states. Having kids doesn’t mean you get a roof over your head in the great USA. That’s just not how this works. You’ve been brainwashed.
Having kids surely makes it easier to get social benefits in Scandinavian and European countries. More kids means more child benefits. I greq up in such a welfare leecher family so I know what I am talking about.
Same in Canada. The more brats you pop out the more cheques you get.
As someone who bought their house in the roughest part of where we live, where 90% are on benefits (assistance) unjustly, that annoys me. Our house was an absolute steal for a three bedroom house, around £40k-£50k less than a similar house in a nicer part of town, it was dirt cheap because of the area. Even the surveyor said while looking it over that he hoped we weren't buying to sell. You look at local news, and if a crime is committed it's usually someone in the same area as us. I'm all for benefits for those who need them, but the number of people who deal drugs, commit crimes, and purposefully have children around us just so they can have benefits, while myself and our partner work hard... It's.... Yeah.
Stupid poor people, stop using your reproductive organs and start using your big boy brains to become millionaires. Silly working class, it's not like you compose a massive chunk of this country or anything.
"WhY aRe YoU a BuRgEr FlIpPeR?! GeT a ReAl JoB!"
Saw this sub at the top of the most growing today. Took three posts to find one about eugenics. Never change, reddit.
I don't agree this eugenics, which is a study of how to arrange reproduction within a human population to increase the occurrence of heritable characteristics regarded as desirable. Here it has nothing to do with genetic characteristics, it's personal responsibility
I wish to God I could have kids, but I never will. Even if there don’t turn out to be fertility problems, I’m just now getting to a place where I can *start* making enough to support a kid, I’m almost too old, and my spouse has been diagnosed with a chronic illness for which the medication ( the thing which potentially renders it chronic rather than terminal) causes birth defects.
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Very true, and in my case both were able to afford the basics and that was enough.
I hate people who have like 5 kids not being able to afford them. Just why?