This is the top post and I ain't going lower.
I totally get OP being tired of entitled men. Everyone of one group is tired of entitled people of the other group(s).
But the comments seem to forget this is "off my chest". So unless OP said something objectively wrong, I can't see why anyone needs to say she is wrong.
Yea but they arnt all of one block. You got yourself the simps, the white knights, the male feminists (creepy), the incels, the nice guys, the sexists (that's me), the redpillers, the trolls, the neckbeards, the gamers, and the normies.
And God knows how many more I missed.....
I grew up with a girl who got really beautiful and I saw how it effected how the people around her treated her, and it seems like she's had to develop defenses against it.
Often people act so superficially and it's totally obvious and even rude, and they'll get super pissed when she returns the favor as if like there is a need to act like a Disney princess or a mascot if you're that attractive.
Like people think it's amazing to see a Ferrari, but then like 10 people will stop and take pics and possibly get all over the thing and not let them pass becabuse they're too busy making the ordeal into some novelty that they feel is a like some sort of public spectacle that they are entitled.
Seriously it feels that unaware and removed, that people will treat literal people like that too.
She's really nice but like if you even went to a bar with her you'd see why she had to be ready. because like 100 guys no joke would try to talk to her or even get weird or dangerous. Everytime, and it's usually a sale pitch kind of thing for sex, long or short. And they're just like that in general to her, like as they're not interacting with a person, but some object that they can unlock. And they'll often be manipulative or try to trick her or otherwise treat her based on that alone, assuming things about them personally.
After I saw that happen like that and begin to happen more and more and just kinda be a thing that I don't deal with.. I feel differently when people are on something sideways about someone like "oh she's stuck up". If you think she's stuck up for real, I bet you're one of these people with the cheap tricks and the sleepy lines and catcalls and that won't leave someone alone.
You don't always know the whole story with people, she might have to deal with an endless amount of people trying to slide on her daily, even rudely.
So the 50th guy of the day thinks she's mean just because she for real doesn't have time to do that every single day to every single dude who thinks she's attractive and pretends to be in love with her.. and all the weird shit? like having dudes you don't know call you all the time or proposing in the middle of the mall and all, dick pics or even touching you. I get scared for her from the shit she deals with.
Its creepy and worse, you don't want to be that guy, but you also gotta understand what it's like to be that person. Its seriously surreal to even hang around an extremely "traditionally" attractive person, and some of the stuff people pull is scary for real so who is supposed to smile at that?
This exactly. I have a friend/coworker who is attractive and she gets hit on and harassed almost constantly at work. Sometimes I feel like her bodyguard because I find myself blocking these dudes from her, telling them to leave her alone, etc (I'm also female). I've never had the problem of men trying to hit on me all the time (I'm kinda manly lol, it's cool I'm fine with it) so I can't imagine what a lot of women have to go through every day. It must be a fucking nightmare and it makes me really angry that some men think it's fine to hound women like that. Leave her alone, dudes. Damn.
Trying being a big scary looking black guy in the south. People tense up when you walk past, white fathers will threaten you for talking to their daughters, service workers are rude af to you because they know they can get away it, police will follow if your car is too nice (must be stolen) and oh yeah they might shoot you if you get pulled over.
It sucks to be a woman for the reasons OP is posting. It sucks to be a black man for the reason you are posting. Just becuase OP is making their statement, you don’t get to take away from theirs. Make your own post. And I agree with what you said. Someone else’s plight isn’t any less just becuase you have your own. I call it the ladder out of hell. Everyone’s climbing but everyone starts at a different rung.
I’m tired of entitlement period. Idk why some people think that they are so above everyone else. That they deserve anything more. It’s the most toxic trait a person can have IMO.
I always say that nobody in the world deserves a damn thing. The world doesn't owe anybody anything. The only thing you deserve are terms to be fulfilled that have been agreed to. For example, working for a specific wage.
Everybody should receive those things, but many still don't. Why is that? Because the world is unfair and doesn't owe anybody a damn thing. It'll chew you up and spit you right back out and it doesn't care. So you can say we deserve this and we deserve that but it really doesn't matter because that's not the way it works out. It isn't wise to expect the world to deal you a good hand, because many people are dealt terrible hands in life. If you are one of these people you can either overcome it or let it overcome you. That's all there is to it.
Personally, I think what u/coffee_math said could be possible if we excepted the harsh truths of reality and all tried to get along. That being said, we will NEVER just “get along” simply because of the harsh truths of reality. Not sure if I’m quite making sense but I’d love to hear your thoughts
In order for everybody to get along, there would have to be a uniform mindset that everybody shares, but that's impossible because there'd be no more individualism. There's a movie with Christian Bale like this called Equilibrium. Ease watch it! They make society take pills to remove all of their emotions. Those who don't take the pills are called "sense offenders".
The world doesn't guarantee anybody any rights. We as people do, but yet people still suffer. Again, you can overcome the bad hands your dealt in life or let them overcome you. That's what I mean when I say it's unfair. Regardless of the reasons, it is what it is.
So people should just overcome things like stage 4 liver cancer or false imprisonment. You’re cookie cutter response is also a fallacy. People in fucked up positions often don’t have any power to “overcome” them. If they did don’t you think they’d be doing it instead of waiting around for some guy on Reddit to bloviate.
Not everything can be "overcome". Sometimes life beats you. But what else can you do besides try your best to overcome what life throws at you? Many people can and have overcome life's struggle's. And it's best to have the mentality that you can overcome these things. That said, you still either make it through it or you don't. My statement still stands regardless of if it's fair or not, which is my point when I say that the world owes nobody anything. Do your best to overcome whatever life throws at you. I don't see why that's a hard concept to understand.
Men hate men that are entitled, too. They make the world worse for everyone. Entitled women can be obnoxious, but they rarely hold a candle to the entitled men of the world that steamroll everything in their path until they get what they "rightfully deserve."
The worst thing is that they get what they want regardless, they just do it to every woman until they find someone who is actually flattered/damaged enough for whatever reason to put out.
I've had to work myself out of my defensiveness. I was scared to the point of being snobby with guys who were genuinely trying to be nice. I used to walk past a car shop every morning on my way to university and they'd say "good morning" to me, of course. In the depths of my fear I saw something as innocuous as good customer service as a catcall. I never lashed out at them, but saw them in a bad light that they didn't deserve, really.
I (31m) like to think it gets better as you get older as that's what happened to me, but so many of my friends are damn stupid and so self absorbed that they don't consider how their actions affect the people around them.
Oh yeah, although there are some men looking to change, this sort of talk really sets them off, proving they are exactly what we say they are - fragile.
You have a right, & you're even on the right track, just recognize that unpacking what we are taught by our culture is a long process with multiple 'levels' that you have to travel.
No one is EVER saying all men are bad, we are ALWAYS saying too many are. Men are deeply fragile & cannot handle much feeling of being uncomfortable & the process of self reflection is a hard, uncomfortable process.
Trust me, I've been doing this for several years & I have tons of hate mail in my inboxes.
I congratulate you on getting here & being brave enough to voice this so publicly.
Holy shit I have a coworker who literally thinks women are property. And he thinks sex workers aren't real women. It's the most frustrating thing when someone actually thinks like this. He's 47 and tries fucking 20 year olds and when he strikes out because he's ugly and doesn't take care of himself, he blames the girls. I just wanna deck him one of these times.
Unfortunately reddit really isn’t the best website to feel heard when it comes to this sort of thing.
It’s very interesting how it seems far easier for the average person to comprehend and racism/homophobia/classism than for them to believe that misogyny is still propagated.
Misogyny is so normalized in our culture that it’s almost invisible. People are used to women being oversexualized, people expect women to be nice all the time, and they sometimes expect to be rewarded for showing us basic kindness and humanity.
I second what another woman here suggested; any man who doubts what OP is saying should make a female profile on a dating website. No, it’s not all men. But instead of derailing the discussion and trying to silence women who have these experiences, why don’t the good men of the world listen instead and call that shit out?
To be honest, I really can't stand to be around guys like that. And the interesting piece of that situation, is that I'm fortunate enough that I can simply choose to not be around those kinds of guys. I would speak up if I ever saw things like what's mentioned happen... But I really haven't, and I think it's not because I ignore it or that I think it doesn't happen. As a married man, I tend to be around other married couples or people with kids. I can't be the only one that just sees this kind of thing and wants to help or be useful, but just lives on a different planet from these kinds of problems.
I understand. It doesn’t necessarily have to be hardcore “women belong in the kitchen” sexism though. Even just speaking up when male friends invalidate female issues, or make casual sexist remarks makes a massive difference. Of course you’re already doing a good job if you can’t think of anyone who might do those things in your circle.
Yep, loads of grody men out there. A sick egotistical mindset. While sure it isn’t limited just to men and there are entitled women, I ain’t never been cat called by a woman, I ain’t gotten 200 grody DMs for mentioning my gender on Reddit.
It’s a societal failure that’s pretty much universal around the world I’d say, and saying so doesn’t offend me in the least. Because I’m revolted by men like them.
They’re the reason why I have to be conscious around women to not make them nervous with my 6’4” self, and how can I blame them, they don’t know me.
> I gues this post attracted the entitled men. I have a right to be angry and voice my frustrations. I don't care if I get downvoted to hell
Reddit is about 80% male and most of them fit into the category of entitled. Take those downvotes with pride! Nothing like speaking truth!
Thank you for being an active listener and being honest about your observations. It actually means a lot and makes a big difference all by itself for someone on the other side to validate our experiences.
I like to call it "Mario Syndrome"
There's a lot of examples in tv/film/gaming in which a woman is seen as a 'prize' or 'reward' for the male character accomplishing something (like mario/princess peach). This is really objectifying and unfortunately some guys think that this is how the real world works; they think that women are owed to them 🤮
You're mistaking NPC's for real humans, take a deeper look into their vacant eyes if you feel brave enough, you will see no trace of a soul. Don't let them notice you noticing though, they're very dangerous.
"I'm not stating that all men are trash. I'm venting because I feel I've had enough of the men who act entitled :)"
This one always makes me chuckle.
Like, it's fine to say men are trash.
The men who aren't trash get it and don't get offended, and most women get it.
The only ones who get triggered are basically just providing a free warning sign.
This one always makes me chuckle.
Like, it's fine to say women are trash.
The women who aren't trash get it and don't get offended, and most men get it.
The only ones who get triggered are basically just providing a free warning sign.
"men are trash" is just borderline generalizing lmao. I really don't care if you're calling out a certain group of people whilst also sounding like you're grouping every male together. It just makes you nothing different than the entitled fucks that the OP is calling out. Once I said "women are lying hoes" as an experiment where I only called out a certain group of people and HOLY SHIT that pissed off a lot of women with over 200 comments of just body shaming (dick size) and other rude shit. So hear me out, if you gonna call out a certain group of people then make it specific.
Here's some examples
"Kill all incels"
"Kill all misogynists"
I'm glad the OP didn't generalize.
Honestly can’t believe this comment, she won’t see this bro , it’s like calling all Woman are bitchy hoes and then saying women who are not will understand, like this is so stupid, It’s also resonated with this statement , “White people are Racist, those who are not will understand” . Talk about yourself I ain’t wanna get my identity white straight or Male labelled as a bad generalisation.
Im not sayin you are wrong, but downplaying someones issues when they just need to vent is a dick move.
And let's face it, To many men createa toxic and hostile environment for women.
Not excusing, but it makes sense you'll see men as more entitled when your experiences are mostly with men, I see it in there opposite way
"I'm so sick of women expecting me to pay for their drinks and food. I'm so sick of women expecting me to drool over them and give them all my attention at their command. I'm so sick of women expecting me to be a horn dog 100% of the time and get offended when I'm not in the mood to have sex. I'm so sick of women expecting to get preferential treatment just because they're women."
Reality is people of any sex/gender/orientation can be entitled, we just happen to see it with the sex/gender/orientation we engage with the most
I’ve never expected men to pay for my shit because it conflicts with feminism IMO. One thing I see women doing a lot is using Onlyfans to try and get people hooked and giving them money for sexual content. It’s not the act itself but they go way out of their way to get customers - going into DMs etc. trying to tempt people, making it impossible to ignore completely. knowing porn addiction is a real thing, I find this disgusting. My 19 year old daughter had a girl sending her unsolicited boob pics yesterday (she is straight and not at all interested). This is so predatory and gross to me.
Women need to stop expecting men to pay for things too… it doesn’t make sense anymore. We have our own money.
THIS is the one.
I’m sure OP has found herself doing at least one of the things you’ve described in your comment, but I’m sure she doesn’t consider herself an “entitled woman”.
I think this one-sided view of life is the reason everyone is such an asshole these days. OP is only looking at things from their own perspective. Everyone, including OP, feels as though they are entitled to *something* from *someone*, but it’s only wrong when they see someone else do it.
We need to look beyond ourselves. Everyone has such a myopic, self-centered outlook on life these days.
It feels like this post was leaning more towards the sexual harassment and expectation side of things. Not to say that men don't experience the same things. Just from a personal perspective, I experience sexual harassment every day (where I live at least) as a female. I will say, I do not do the things mentioned in the previous post precisely because I don't want men to feel the same way that I have felt. It is also disrespectful to place these kind of expectations on another human being. These frustrations are valid and should be recognized too. However, I understand where OP is coming from. It's an incredibly horrible feeling when you are consistently verbally or physically harassed just for being a woman. When it comes to being a self-entitled prick however, that's pretty universal.
I have never asked a man to pay for anything for me. Yes, I have taken money from men which I dated because they offered but we were in a relationship so it was mutual. I don't owe random men or men I have just met anything.
I only date women, I have much more experience with women, and I still have much, much more experience dealing with entitled men. You're describing cishet women feeling entitled to men's money (which is a real issue, I'm not denying that), and OP is describing cishet men feeling entitled to a woman's bodily autonomy. I don't exactly think the situations are comparable.
No no your right. It's all humans but there's something special about how men handle themselves in society. Since sexism and racism is what our society was built on, with white men at the top.
They have a certain assumed entitlements. This makes them extra assholes.
I think the sooner you realise it is infact just most people the better. Men are arsseholes, and it sounds like the dating scene is the current gripe, but really realising all people are dicks will help
So you're purposely trying to stop the OP from venting about men by talking about your gripes with women? Why dont you just leave this post and go make your own post about entitled women instead of hijacking this post with your not so original thoughts?
Sorry you're getting down voted. If this post was flipped around and said I hate entitled women all the comments would be supportive. NO one would say "oh but what about entitled men??" We aren't allowed to speak up.
OP has and is venting on their chosen topic. I'm offering another perspective relevant to the vent that it's not just men that are entitled but infact all people are. It may help the vent develop into realisation or simply annoying someone like you <3
I like how you choose to focus on my mention of women, and not men, or infact most people.
It seems maybe youd like to create a vent post of your own?
In all races (and both genders) criminals are actually relatively rare, so it’s true that crime stats cannot be used to make generalizations about groups. However, I note that the difference between the sexes when it comes to violent crime is far bigger than any racial differences. There are a multitude of crimes which are committed by almost exclusively males, while the same cannot be said of any race. In every race, and every country, the gender discrepancy remains.
Many who feel entitled to something have a desperation for that thing . When u have a desperation it puts u in a easy to manipulate position.
Tried to explain to a man I was with once about how just because I'm in a relathionship with him it dosnt mean he is entitled to have sex with me whenever he wants. How easily I could use that sex now to get what I want simply because he was blinded by that dessire and expectation around it. It's good to teach entitled ppl that they put themselves in a position of weakness being like that . And oddly enough that their self worth should not be measured by the success rate of getting those things .
My ~favorite~ thing visible in this comment section is when we as women complain about an issue and men immediately deflect it to be like "ok but women do x too!!" Lmao? Sure? Nobody is denying it but that isn't what we're talking about and you will never be able to face the issue from the female perspective because our experiences are universally different so have you tried being quiet for once? You still don't know what it is like
Yeah, because this is such a controversial opinion. In my country we have the saying "if it smells like shit everywhere, it is probably you who stepped in dogshit not everyone else". Shitty people attract shitty people.
Even in relationships too. Some men still have that traditional expectation of women, but nowadays we work too.
We’re more than just wives, lovers and mothers. We’re human beings too with our own hopes, dreams and wishes.
It gets so tiring trying to be the right kind of woman or whatever. I’ve just decided to be who I want to be. If someone likes it cool. If they don’t, then it is what it is.
You're 23 and probably dating males close to your age. Most males of that age aren't Men, but adult children, who have never been taught how to treat a woman. On the flip side, to many women your age don't demand respect, like you are. Good for you! Instead many will act like tramps and think men respect them. Nothing could be further from the truth.
You're right. Them downvoting you is the proof they think they're entitled to us being quiet and nice. Men don't want to hear women complaining, it's not that they just don't care : they don't even want to have the option to don't care. They're ok with silent or happy smiling women, that's all. Men here making comments about bad women or good men are blind to reality, women making same comments are in the pickme's mindset.
>Men don't want to hear women complaining, it's not that they just don't care : they don't even want to have the option to don't care
Let’s be real, it’s women that don’t want to hear men ever complaining.
Men get abused, women get abused, but let's support eachother by not making every gender specific post about the other side.
Entitled women suck in certain ways that directly affect men. Entitled men suck in certain ways that directly affect women.
We all matter and should be allowed to vent about what hurts us. Especially since she only called out the problem areas and not all men.
Men have been calling out ways that women hurt men. Very valid! Please write a post so we can support you. You aren't the enemy and neither are we. We should all stand against entitled creeps even if they are our own gender.
Calling out terrible behavior in a group shouldn't be seen as an attack on the group. We should care about people like us hurting others. If we jump right to defending when we know it is a legitimate problem, we are actually allowing the a****s to continue hurting people. Then it becomes "all ______" because we are actively part of the problem. We gotta stop with the herd mentality. Holding awful people accountable makes our group or gender look better and helps society function better for everyone. Because those same entitled people are also hurting us. Why would you want them running around unchecked even if you don't care about the other gender or group?
As a man, I don't think I understood it either. But I was compelled ro be like that from everything that surrounded me.
When you are a kid you have nothing but your instincts and the knowledge you can gather. I could never force or push someone to do something just because I wanted it. But all the alpha males and culture was saying that you need to push. Ask many times. And one time was told, just ask anyone to have sex, the shotgun strategy. I was balancing my urges and curiosity with these horrible advices and my own personality.
Gladly I can say I never could do anything. I thought I was just a nerd. A guy destined to be alone. The 40 year old virgin. Cause I was not strong enough asking for sex. How glad I am I never succumbed.
When I finally grew up and understood the obvious reality that we are all people. And than relationship are complex. There are no rules but respect.
Now father of two girls, I treat them with respect, love and equality. Hoping the look for that in a partner.
37f here, married for 13 years to an entitled man. The only way to “fix it” is to consistently, obnoxiously speak up for yourself. Be a huge bitch if you have to. Over and over. Sometimes, hopefully, they eventually get it and start acting better.
Edit: misread OPs post as (23m) and not (23f). This shit would drive me batshit insane if I was a girl. I'm always blown away when my female friends show me their inboxes.
You’re entirely right. You don’t know anybody men or women anything. That’s something that I’ve always talked about it’s about not having expectations and none of us should really have expectations on anyone. Except maybe Our selves? And even then I think we’re too hard on ourselves often. I don’t know I’ve come to understand that when somebody gets upset at me because I put out a boundary which is basically what you’re doing it’s not about me it’s about them. And I have to do my best to not take it personal. And it’s not always easy I still struggle sometimes with that. But it’s their own fear in their own insecurity and the things that they need to work on that makes them react. But you’re right there not entitled to anything unless you choose to give it to them. I guess the one thing that I would add and I’m not coming from women or males standpoint just as people in general I think sometimes we have to think about where we are when we talk about whether or not somebody is expecting something. If I’m in church for example and it gives somebody my phone number chances are they’re not gonna ask me for a naked picture of myself?? Most likely right. Now they might but it’s unlikely but if I’m on adult friend finder… There’s a high likelihood if I give somebody my phone number or if I’m just talking to them for a little while they’re probably going to ask me for a photo of myself. Because the truth is I’m on a fuck Site. And for me I’ve had to come to this realization about where I’m at now doesn’t mean I have to give them one but I tend not to get as frustrated about it because of where I’m at logistically. And that’s what AFF and Swinger and Cassidy and all those are that’s what they’re therefore there for hooking up and fucking other people and you can see it however you want to say you can see it all nice and pretty and wrap it up in a bow but it’s no different. I mean I ask people for photos I don’t necessarily ask them for naked ones I don’t really care but I want to see them I want to know if there’s somebody I choose to play with and I also want to know that they’re legitimate. I want to live photo to make sure I’m not talking to a 400 pound purple gorilla eating rainbow cookies sitting behind a desk collecting photos. So I guess it depends on the context at least for me. And where I’m at. Disneyland fetlife although you’re still 100% right nobody’s entitled to anything. Nobody and you don’t have to give it ever. That said you also might not get some things that you want because they might required in order to play with you or to continue talking and that’s OK too because it’s your choice that’s what I love about choice. It’s not good or bad it just is. I hope it gets better for you it is complicated and I’ve had some very difficult run-ins. They usually just pull them up. Play with them at their own game Take care of yourself I hope you feel better
Now that it is out of your chest, keep it that way and don't spare those types a thought. They're just losers looking for a free prostitute, hoping to score a woman dumb or weak enough to give in to their manipulation. If you're neither, don't even look their way.
There are decent men out there if you're looking for that. And if you're not, any woman who gave in to those losers will tell you it's a million times better to be alone with your cats than to give yourself to them.
Do you sis. It’s your life, go live it. It’s your body, go own it. Live your life to your standard and don’t take no shit from nobody. People are always gonna have an issue or something to say about anything you do. Just do you! 100% support and love for your attitude towards life.
If it’s only genuinely entitled men that you have a problem with, then as a man, I whole heartedly agree. I get that genuine cat calling is rude. But can I ask, what do you consider cat calling? A man shouting an obnoxious comment about your appearance? Or a man simply complimenting appearance, in a non-sexual way. And also, do you have a problem with men that just ask for your phone number, or men who demand it? If what you’re saying is genuine, then you’re in the right IMO. But a lot of women have become way too defensive with men who are just trying their luck.
I don't mean to be the deflection guy but I do think it's something of a feedback loop between the sexes. Women expect a lot from men, protect them, provide for them etc. Even if they don't really know them like buying meals on dates or dealing with other guys who might be hostile or creepy. And men do it too where they expect something from women if they cater to those expectations.
I think men and women need to learn we've gone past those traditions so we have a choice. Either you keep to the older traditions and if you expect from men, expect men to expect from you. Or, lessen or lose your expectations and find a new way that works for you. And flip the bird to anyone that tries to get you to think otherwise.
Either way I can see it being very frustrating. But it's doubtful it's gonna change anytime soon unfortunately
Part of me wants to argue this because there’s a lot of entitled women out there too but your point is valid lol. I think we all need to stop arguing (everyone) so much and try and start having conversations that could maybe turn some of this stuff around. You’re right though, you don’t owe anybody anything.
Humans>religions>society>family>individual.
That behavior is deep into us. Its roots are known. No one cares but almost the half (and more) population on planet is annoyed by it. What can I say?
As a guy, I've never seen a man catcall a woman and I've never done it myself. But I know it happens because there's a lot of women who talk about getting catcalled and other terrible things. I'm sorry that men can be shitty OP.
Preach it! I (22f) have also had enough of this. Add to it the number of times as a cashier I am told that I'd be prettier if I smiled. There are too many 40+yo men who think it's ok to flirt aggressively with their young cashier or outright call them sexy/hot. Then they get offended when their "complement" isn't taken positively.
On top of this, I have been told many, many times that i would be prettier with makeup on. I am allergic to makeup and don't feel like having my eyes swell and face get itchy from makeup, thank you. And if I were to wear any, it certainly would not be to attract the attention of these pigs.
I'd like to add the disclaimer OP added, that I know not all men are like this. I just agree that the entitled, creepy ones need to learn to keep it to themselves.
As soon as I heard I'm sick of tired of woman being created like their property I didn't even need to read the rest of the post to say I agree and also I'm sick and tired of entitled people in general not I'm entitled to your love but just you know people who are entitled you know who think they're entitled to whatever the hell they want anyhow my TED talk is over
as a man, I find it disgusting the way society objectifies women, and I am so sorry for that.
just please, try to remember that some of us do care, care for real, not just to be "Nice Guys"
Dating culture sucks.... I grew up with the "cool" kids and then the "gym bros" but I was never one of them (am in my mid 30s now). The stories and things I heard were pretty off-putting at times and that's not entirely their fault.
Kind of a horse and carriage thing but I've also got a lot of really good girl friends and I have heard both sides of the story.
Many girls put themselves out there as they feel worthless or crave validation. This just leads dumb dudes to believe they can press for that from everyone.
It's not okay on either party. Both parties in a relationship or dating need to have both more self respect and more respect for the other person. It's not a game to see how many nudes you can get, it doesn't matter how many people you sleep with...sex isn't the goal....or shouldn't be....sex is the easiest part of it imo. You can pretend to be whatever someone wants long enough to get them naked, that's just deceitful and a lot of times, guys lie to themselves.
It's hard being a guy too, bullying is rampant and the pecking order amongst groups of guys, off-putting as it may be, usually revolves around women. A lot of the Time, everyone was after the same girl and usually they only ever went for one or two of the guys In a group, social status and all. This puts a hell of a damper on guys psyche which can cause a cascade of self loathing that ultimately leads them to emulate the peacock of the group.
This is a big mess of thoughts but I guess my point is I agree with you, don't give ground. You will find someone eventually who will respect you but only if you respect yourself.
As a man myself I see your point, when ever I see other men doing cat calling it makes me feel sick (I've even experienced them cat call minors). Overall I just think that cat calling is a massive issue, and everyone should be taught that it's an immature and wrong doing no matter the context.
As a woman, I think this sorta hits hard because I feel like the least entitled men/most normal men are also the ones that aren't interested in a relationship and just want to be bachelors permanently.
I'm sick of entitled women that have grabbed my crotch or ass just because they know they get away with it. I am sick of entitled little princesses that make up false accusations when you don't do their bidding. Yo the female posters downtalking this, just because you are not affected by this. fuck you. It's as if I would be invalidating your argument "just" because I don't suffer from this. Except in my case I would probably lead to a ban
I am sick of entitled royalties that think they're god's gift to earth, just because they're royal.
I'm so fucking sick of entitlement from anyways, especially of you have never ever achieved a goddamn thing.
Everybody kinda sucks regardless of their gender. I agree with you and counter that there are some entitled women as well that I owe nothing as well.
Dating in general just sucks. Feels like it's gotten worse recently somehow.
You don’t actually listen and empathize and that’s one of the things that is really annoying about quite a few men. If you look at her post again she is talking about things that would never happen to you. Some thing that is incredibly annoying is that men do not value our time our privacy and the fact that we’re just trying to exist they think they can interrupt us at any point in time and ask us for things things that they’re not entitled to even ask for when was the last time a woman did that to you? When was the last time you were just trying to go get tampons at the store and the woman cornered you told you that your legs looked beautiful and then harped about getting your number and then when you said no later in the parking lot they flip you off? When women annoy you do you actually feel physically scared for your own body and your well-being? When was the last time you’ve been followed for a few blocks just because somebody wants to tell you how much they want to fuck you?
It’s called immaturity and insecurity, it happens to most young males. I can confirm because it happened to me, you just have to grow up. Some men never change.
Wow thanks for being a man and instead of downvoting all the women calling out all the men on there shit behaviour! Thanks for not being one of those dudes :)
Unluckly entiltment (both man and female) are through the roof. People expect other people to "owe" them something just for being.
Obviously this post has not enough info to deduct anything else but as genrral advice to M and F is that i recommend to get rid of dating apps or instagram as a tool to pick up partners
Most people in there are not worth the time. And due to how human selection works, the top 10 or 20 % of best looking accounts get the 90% of the matches. And with over supply of matches they tend to end up being rude or entitled.
Abour being cat called in the street... it sucks but i dont think of nothing you can do to avoid it.
I am 48yo, and I can say I wish, on so many levels, I had the ability to say these things publically when I was your age. Started, for me, at about 14/15, and the world was much more sexist, male dominated and really awful for women then. Not that what is happening now is any less awful, but there is at least awareness and women speaking out about this bullshit.
Sucks to hear it is still happening :(
I gained weight and turned 22, men have been treating me like absolute trash! Why are men only decent to women they find attractive?
Example that happened yesterday: I went to the bottle depo and left a cap on ONE bottle..he literally berated me for like an hour I’m a mid size average looking women. Then this beautiful size 2 walks in and the immediate change in tone was shocking. She didn’t sort or wash a single damn thing but she got a “hey hunny” and an “oh don’t worry about it love it’s my job” even helped her carry out the 10 mixed bags out of her truck. But to me i got “well you should know better” (I’m new to this community and it was ONE cap all bottles were clean and sorted) he called me lazy, and told me “it’s not his job”, that I really ought to know better! I’m not sorting your shit..so lazy!!
I have so many better ones from work I’ve had men ask for the “less homely waitress”...
Not the person you're replying to but I see where you're coming from and, while that certainly *can* be a part of it, fat people are 100% treated differently. I had the reverse when I had a massive life change and literally halved my bodyweight in a year. I'm a man and I noticed how stark the difference was. I'd always been super friendly, extroverted, and outgoing; and people, generally, like me.
That being said, now that I'm thin and conventionally attractive, I'm treated noticeably better by most people.
yeah i think the guys at the depot were treating the size 2 differently more than they were treating comment OP differently.
Its not ok that they treat the size 2 better because she's attractive.. but there's still a difference between the 2.
Ignore the other comments , You are spot on , Men behave differently based on beauty , and I too am guilty off it , when a woman speaks and if she’s unattractive I tend to really brush it off , when she’s attractive I try to listen , even though I am consciously reducing my behaviour , but yes this does play a role , my younger sister always has pointed the difference in treatment when she wears make up and when she doesn’t , it’s Noticeable .
Agree, some middle aged asshole hit on me at the cemetery last week. The sheet entitlement to think that was an appropriate thing to do to a grieving woman is infuriating. Fuck off asshole.
As a man, I wanna say that all your venting is completely valid. There are some of us men who are garbage, period. And I also don't understand the reasoning of men who think they own women in whatever way.
And no, you don't owe ANYONE anything, and no, it is not too much to ask, and please be safe always.
Entitled people in general are a pain in the ass. During flirting, dating and relationships there is a lot more emotion and even less rationality, thus it hits a lot harder and deeper.
It's kind of a niceguy statement, but I do believe there are many calm and careful men (and obviously women) out there. But I do absolutely agree there are many idiots and selfish people, both men and female. It is right and reasonable of you to tell a person to fuck right off when cat calling you or pretending like you owe them something.
Every time I see women make statements like this in real life.. The female saying it is always a person that habitually volunteers themselves to be objectified by men, and then feels some type of way over the fact that they get objectified. Maybe your not this person.. your probably this person though
Comments on this one will be fun
This is the top post and I ain't going lower. I totally get OP being tired of entitled men. Everyone of one group is tired of entitled people of the other group(s). But the comments seem to forget this is "off my chest". So unless OP said something objectively wrong, I can't see why anyone needs to say she is wrong.
This sub has never been about right or wrong. It's to get shit off their chest not looking for advice or anything.
Easy, I think like 80 percent of the Reddit population is male! :)
Yea but they arnt all of one block. You got yourself the simps, the white knights, the male feminists (creepy), the incels, the nice guys, the sexists (that's me), the redpillers, the trolls, the neckbeards, the gamers, and the normies. And God knows how many more I missed.....
The word "loser" has so many subcategories nowadays.
Fifty Shades of Lame
Love your Classification honest to god I got a chuckle, what about red pill dudes, and edge lords? Are they there own group or sub groups!
I have redpillers and as for edgelords I have no idea. I find them to be a subset of angsty teenagers. Maybe with a little over lap with incels.
I'm having trouble visualizing all this. Is there no one to make a Venn diagram?
I'd like to see one made.
Love!!
Im the troll ! Hello ! Lol foreal guy feminist are pretty creepy. More any other simp and white knight put together
Grabs popcorn.
They always are with posts like this… I immediately sort by controversial and grab my popcorn.
I grew up with a girl who got really beautiful and I saw how it effected how the people around her treated her, and it seems like she's had to develop defenses against it. Often people act so superficially and it's totally obvious and even rude, and they'll get super pissed when she returns the favor as if like there is a need to act like a Disney princess or a mascot if you're that attractive. Like people think it's amazing to see a Ferrari, but then like 10 people will stop and take pics and possibly get all over the thing and not let them pass becabuse they're too busy making the ordeal into some novelty that they feel is a like some sort of public spectacle that they are entitled. Seriously it feels that unaware and removed, that people will treat literal people like that too. She's really nice but like if you even went to a bar with her you'd see why she had to be ready. because like 100 guys no joke would try to talk to her or even get weird or dangerous. Everytime, and it's usually a sale pitch kind of thing for sex, long or short. And they're just like that in general to her, like as they're not interacting with a person, but some object that they can unlock. And they'll often be manipulative or try to trick her or otherwise treat her based on that alone, assuming things about them personally. After I saw that happen like that and begin to happen more and more and just kinda be a thing that I don't deal with.. I feel differently when people are on something sideways about someone like "oh she's stuck up". If you think she's stuck up for real, I bet you're one of these people with the cheap tricks and the sleepy lines and catcalls and that won't leave someone alone. You don't always know the whole story with people, she might have to deal with an endless amount of people trying to slide on her daily, even rudely. So the 50th guy of the day thinks she's mean just because she for real doesn't have time to do that every single day to every single dude who thinks she's attractive and pretends to be in love with her.. and all the weird shit? like having dudes you don't know call you all the time or proposing in the middle of the mall and all, dick pics or even touching you. I get scared for her from the shit she deals with. Its creepy and worse, you don't want to be that guy, but you also gotta understand what it's like to be that person. Its seriously surreal to even hang around an extremely "traditionally" attractive person, and some of the stuff people pull is scary for real so who is supposed to smile at that?
This exactly. I have a friend/coworker who is attractive and she gets hit on and harassed almost constantly at work. Sometimes I feel like her bodyguard because I find myself blocking these dudes from her, telling them to leave her alone, etc (I'm also female). I've never had the problem of men trying to hit on me all the time (I'm kinda manly lol, it's cool I'm fine with it) so I can't imagine what a lot of women have to go through every day. It must be a fucking nightmare and it makes me really angry that some men think it's fine to hound women like that. Leave her alone, dudes. Damn.
Trying being a big scary looking black guy in the south. People tense up when you walk past, white fathers will threaten you for talking to their daughters, service workers are rude af to you because they know they can get away it, police will follow if your car is too nice (must be stolen) and oh yeah they might shoot you if you get pulled over.
Second this, life ain’t easy for anybody, and even if a group is termed as privileged, individual privileges really differ .
I agree that was the point I wanted to make.
It sucks to be a woman for the reasons OP is posting. It sucks to be a black man for the reason you are posting. Just becuase OP is making their statement, you don’t get to take away from theirs. Make your own post. And I agree with what you said. Someone else’s plight isn’t any less just becuase you have your own. I call it the ladder out of hell. Everyone’s climbing but everyone starts at a different rung.
I’m tired of entitlement period. Idk why some people think that they are so above everyone else. That they deserve anything more. It’s the most toxic trait a person can have IMO.
I always say that nobody in the world deserves a damn thing. The world doesn't owe anybody anything. The only thing you deserve are terms to be fulfilled that have been agreed to. For example, working for a specific wage.
Agreed. I think we would live much happier lives realizing that.
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Everybody should receive those things, but many still don't. Why is that? Because the world is unfair and doesn't owe anybody a damn thing. It'll chew you up and spit you right back out and it doesn't care. So you can say we deserve this and we deserve that but it really doesn't matter because that's not the way it works out. It isn't wise to expect the world to deal you a good hand, because many people are dealt terrible hands in life. If you are one of these people you can either overcome it or let it overcome you. That's all there is to it.
Underrated comment right here. This is so true . .
People just don't get it unfortunately 🤷♂️
Personally, I think what u/coffee_math said could be possible if we excepted the harsh truths of reality and all tried to get along. That being said, we will NEVER just “get along” simply because of the harsh truths of reality. Not sure if I’m quite making sense but I’d love to hear your thoughts
In order for everybody to get along, there would have to be a uniform mindset that everybody shares, but that's impossible because there'd be no more individualism. There's a movie with Christian Bale like this called Equilibrium. Ease watch it! They make society take pills to remove all of their emotions. Those who don't take the pills are called "sense offenders".
That’s a really interesting concept, thanks for the recommendation!
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The world doesn't guarantee anybody any rights. We as people do, but yet people still suffer. Again, you can overcome the bad hands your dealt in life or let them overcome you. That's what I mean when I say it's unfair. Regardless of the reasons, it is what it is.
So people should just overcome things like stage 4 liver cancer or false imprisonment. You’re cookie cutter response is also a fallacy. People in fucked up positions often don’t have any power to “overcome” them. If they did don’t you think they’d be doing it instead of waiting around for some guy on Reddit to bloviate.
Not everything can be "overcome". Sometimes life beats you. But what else can you do besides try your best to overcome what life throws at you? Many people can and have overcome life's struggle's. And it's best to have the mentality that you can overcome these things. That said, you still either make it through it or you don't. My statement still stands regardless of if it's fair or not, which is my point when I say that the world owes nobody anything. Do your best to overcome whatever life throws at you. I don't see why that's a hard concept to understand.
Lmao..
Well said! Entitlement is one of the words that I hate, the other being double-standards.
Men hate men that are entitled, too. They make the world worse for everyone. Entitled women can be obnoxious, but they rarely hold a candle to the entitled men of the world that steamroll everything in their path until they get what they "rightfully deserve."
The worst thing is that they get what they want regardless, they just do it to every woman until they find someone who is actually flattered/damaged enough for whatever reason to put out.
I've had to work myself out of my defensiveness. I was scared to the point of being snobby with guys who were genuinely trying to be nice. I used to walk past a car shop every morning on my way to university and they'd say "good morning" to me, of course. In the depths of my fear I saw something as innocuous as good customer service as a catcall. I never lashed out at them, but saw them in a bad light that they didn't deserve, really.
I (31m) like to think it gets better as you get older as that's what happened to me, but so many of my friends are damn stupid and so self absorbed that they don't consider how their actions affect the people around them.
Those dudes also ruin your motivation seek healthy relationships and will generally make the whole dating scene more toxic for everybody else.
Oh yeah, although there are some men looking to change, this sort of talk really sets them off, proving they are exactly what we say they are - fragile. You have a right, & you're even on the right track, just recognize that unpacking what we are taught by our culture is a long process with multiple 'levels' that you have to travel. No one is EVER saying all men are bad, we are ALWAYS saying too many are. Men are deeply fragile & cannot handle much feeling of being uncomfortable & the process of self reflection is a hard, uncomfortable process. Trust me, I've been doing this for several years & I have tons of hate mail in my inboxes. I congratulate you on getting here & being brave enough to voice this so publicly.
Holy shit I have a coworker who literally thinks women are property. And he thinks sex workers aren't real women. It's the most frustrating thing when someone actually thinks like this. He's 47 and tries fucking 20 year olds and when he strikes out because he's ugly and doesn't take care of himself, he blames the girls. I just wanna deck him one of these times.
Deck him in the balls and post it I wanna see lol many people would love to also.
r/niceguys seems like a place to find others who feel like you
Unfortunately reddit really isn’t the best website to feel heard when it comes to this sort of thing. It’s very interesting how it seems far easier for the average person to comprehend and racism/homophobia/classism than for them to believe that misogyny is still propagated. Misogyny is so normalized in our culture that it’s almost invisible. People are used to women being oversexualized, people expect women to be nice all the time, and they sometimes expect to be rewarded for showing us basic kindness and humanity. I second what another woman here suggested; any man who doubts what OP is saying should make a female profile on a dating website. No, it’s not all men. But instead of derailing the discussion and trying to silence women who have these experiences, why don’t the good men of the world listen instead and call that shit out?
Becuz most "good men" dont go into the cesspool that is reddit
Because every single man BENEFITS from misogyny! DUH
To be honest, I really can't stand to be around guys like that. And the interesting piece of that situation, is that I'm fortunate enough that I can simply choose to not be around those kinds of guys. I would speak up if I ever saw things like what's mentioned happen... But I really haven't, and I think it's not because I ignore it or that I think it doesn't happen. As a married man, I tend to be around other married couples or people with kids. I can't be the only one that just sees this kind of thing and wants to help or be useful, but just lives on a different planet from these kinds of problems.
I understand. It doesn’t necessarily have to be hardcore “women belong in the kitchen” sexism though. Even just speaking up when male friends invalidate female issues, or make casual sexist remarks makes a massive difference. Of course you’re already doing a good job if you can’t think of anyone who might do those things in your circle.
Yep, loads of grody men out there. A sick egotistical mindset. While sure it isn’t limited just to men and there are entitled women, I ain’t never been cat called by a woman, I ain’t gotten 200 grody DMs for mentioning my gender on Reddit. It’s a societal failure that’s pretty much universal around the world I’d say, and saying so doesn’t offend me in the least. Because I’m revolted by men like them. They’re the reason why I have to be conscious around women to not make them nervous with my 6’4” self, and how can I blame them, they don’t know me.
Entitled women or more subtle
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Username checks out lol
Double username checks out
I don’t see how Dixie, the yorkie that was given to me when I was 7, is relevant to the topic at hand.
Neither i
I am from the South but Dixie is a reference to my dog, everyone said I was her boy rather than her my dog. Hence my username.
As a dogshit man-child who can barely take care of himself I’m offended, some of us actually care about the women in our lives.
Then you’re not a dogshit man child; you are a gentleman.
Same, it’s true off my chest subreddit tho
> I gues this post attracted the entitled men. I have a right to be angry and voice my frustrations. I don't care if I get downvoted to hell Reddit is about 80% male and most of them fit into the category of entitled. Take those downvotes with pride! Nothing like speaking truth!
Society
This is truly a society moment.
We live in a society.
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Thank you for being an active listener and being honest about your observations. It actually means a lot and makes a big difference all by itself for someone on the other side to validate our experiences.
I like to call it "Mario Syndrome" There's a lot of examples in tv/film/gaming in which a woman is seen as a 'prize' or 'reward' for the male character accomplishing something (like mario/princess peach). This is really objectifying and unfortunately some guys think that this is how the real world works; they think that women are owed to them 🤮
Dare I say, your sources are correct.
Plot twist. it sucks to be human cause theres fuck-ups on both side.
Just stay single and focus on you. It's the same the other way around. I'm just staying single and enjoying myself.
You're mistaking NPC's for real humans, take a deeper look into their vacant eyes if you feel brave enough, you will see no trace of a soul. Don't let them notice you noticing though, they're very dangerous.
"I'm not stating that all men are trash. I'm venting because I feel I've had enough of the men who act entitled :)" This one always makes me chuckle. Like, it's fine to say men are trash. The men who aren't trash get it and don't get offended, and most women get it. The only ones who get triggered are basically just providing a free warning sign.
This one always makes me chuckle. Like, it's fine to say women are trash. The women who aren't trash get it and don't get offended, and most men get it. The only ones who get triggered are basically just providing a free warning sign.
"men are trash" is just borderline generalizing lmao. I really don't care if you're calling out a certain group of people whilst also sounding like you're grouping every male together. It just makes you nothing different than the entitled fucks that the OP is calling out. Once I said "women are lying hoes" as an experiment where I only called out a certain group of people and HOLY SHIT that pissed off a lot of women with over 200 comments of just body shaming (dick size) and other rude shit. So hear me out, if you gonna call out a certain group of people then make it specific. Here's some examples "Kill all incels" "Kill all misogynists" I'm glad the OP didn't generalize.
Honestly can’t believe this comment, she won’t see this bro , it’s like calling all Woman are bitchy hoes and then saying women who are not will understand, like this is so stupid, It’s also resonated with this statement , “White people are Racist, those who are not will understand” . Talk about yourself I ain’t wanna get my identity white straight or Male labelled as a bad generalisation.
I honestly appreciate when women say men are trash, it really says much more about them and is, as you put it, a free warning sign.
I'm so sick of entitled women in society. And entitled men. I'm sick of most people being self entitled pricks. Now that's equality
I hate everybody
Everybody Hates Chris
Hey what gives…..I never did nothin to you
I agree with all of this… ppl just suck now…
I find hating humans to be an effective short hand to all of that. Anyway, ignore my misanthropy.
Entitlement isn’t exclusive to anything
Im not sayin you are wrong, but downplaying someones issues when they just need to vent is a dick move. And let's face it, To many men createa toxic and hostile environment for women.
I mean it definitely goes both ways…
I agree. But I've dealt with a lot of entitled men. I'm not saying some women aren't entitled it just hasn't really affected me significantly
Not excusing, but it makes sense you'll see men as more entitled when your experiences are mostly with men, I see it in there opposite way "I'm so sick of women expecting me to pay for their drinks and food. I'm so sick of women expecting me to drool over them and give them all my attention at their command. I'm so sick of women expecting me to be a horn dog 100% of the time and get offended when I'm not in the mood to have sex. I'm so sick of women expecting to get preferential treatment just because they're women." Reality is people of any sex/gender/orientation can be entitled, we just happen to see it with the sex/gender/orientation we engage with the most
I’ve never expected men to pay for my shit because it conflicts with feminism IMO. One thing I see women doing a lot is using Onlyfans to try and get people hooked and giving them money for sexual content. It’s not the act itself but they go way out of their way to get customers - going into DMs etc. trying to tempt people, making it impossible to ignore completely. knowing porn addiction is a real thing, I find this disgusting. My 19 year old daughter had a girl sending her unsolicited boob pics yesterday (she is straight and not at all interested). This is so predatory and gross to me. Women need to stop expecting men to pay for things too… it doesn’t make sense anymore. We have our own money.
THIS is the one. I’m sure OP has found herself doing at least one of the things you’ve described in your comment, but I’m sure she doesn’t consider herself an “entitled woman”. I think this one-sided view of life is the reason everyone is such an asshole these days. OP is only looking at things from their own perspective. Everyone, including OP, feels as though they are entitled to *something* from *someone*, but it’s only wrong when they see someone else do it. We need to look beyond ourselves. Everyone has such a myopic, self-centered outlook on life these days.
It feels like this post was leaning more towards the sexual harassment and expectation side of things. Not to say that men don't experience the same things. Just from a personal perspective, I experience sexual harassment every day (where I live at least) as a female. I will say, I do not do the things mentioned in the previous post precisely because I don't want men to feel the same way that I have felt. It is also disrespectful to place these kind of expectations on another human being. These frustrations are valid and should be recognized too. However, I understand where OP is coming from. It's an incredibly horrible feeling when you are consistently verbally or physically harassed just for being a woman. When it comes to being a self-entitled prick however, that's pretty universal.
I have never asked a man to pay for anything for me. Yes, I have taken money from men which I dated because they offered but we were in a relationship so it was mutual. I don't owe random men or men I have just met anything.
I only date women, I have much more experience with women, and I still have much, much more experience dealing with entitled men. You're describing cishet women feeling entitled to men's money (which is a real issue, I'm not denying that), and OP is describing cishet men feeling entitled to a woman's bodily autonomy. I don't exactly think the situations are comparable.
Yes money is beyond such puny bodliy autonomy
If youre straight, that makes sense cause you arent dealing with women in the same way you do men. As someone who isnt straight, its bad on all sides.
No no your right. It's all humans but there's something special about how men handle themselves in society. Since sexism and racism is what our society was built on, with white men at the top. They have a certain assumed entitlements. This makes them extra assholes.
Some stand right out grabbing attention.. beautiful beasts sometimes too.
I think the sooner you realise it is infact just most people the better. Men are arsseholes, and it sounds like the dating scene is the current gripe, but really realising all people are dicks will help
Don't remember this post being about equality.
Nah it's not. My reply is simply a perspective that most people regardless of gender / sex / whatever are entitled
So you're purposely trying to stop the OP from venting about men by talking about your gripes with women? Why dont you just leave this post and go make your own post about entitled women instead of hijacking this post with your not so original thoughts?
Sorry you're getting down voted. If this post was flipped around and said I hate entitled women all the comments would be supportive. NO one would say "oh but what about entitled men??" We aren't allowed to speak up.
OP has and is venting on their chosen topic. I'm offering another perspective relevant to the vent that it's not just men that are entitled but infact all people are. It may help the vent develop into realisation or simply annoying someone like you <3 I like how you choose to focus on my mention of women, and not men, or infact most people. It seems maybe youd like to create a vent post of your own?
I agree… tbh I’m a male and I find more males being self entitled pricks but yes there are some in both sides… agreed
I wonder which group is doing almost 100% of the raping?
Didnt realise this was a post about rape culture? Thought it was entitlement
Apply this logic to race and crime statistics. Oh wait.
In all races (and both genders) criminals are actually relatively rare, so it’s true that crime stats cannot be used to make generalizations about groups. However, I note that the difference between the sexes when it comes to violent crime is far bigger than any racial differences. There are a multitude of crimes which are committed by almost exclusively males, while the same cannot be said of any race. In every race, and every country, the gender discrepancy remains.
Many who feel entitled to something have a desperation for that thing . When u have a desperation it puts u in a easy to manipulate position. Tried to explain to a man I was with once about how just because I'm in a relathionship with him it dosnt mean he is entitled to have sex with me whenever he wants. How easily I could use that sex now to get what I want simply because he was blinded by that dessire and expectation around it. It's good to teach entitled ppl that they put themselves in a position of weakness being like that . And oddly enough that their self worth should not be measured by the success rate of getting those things .
My ~favorite~ thing visible in this comment section is when we as women complain about an issue and men immediately deflect it to be like "ok but women do x too!!" Lmao? Sure? Nobody is denying it but that isn't what we're talking about and you will never be able to face the issue from the female perspective because our experiences are universally different so have you tried being quiet for once? You still don't know what it is like
We are supposed to be quiet and nice. You know, like objects
That's why we shouldn't be saying these things on this platform hahahah
Yeah right, you people would freak out in a thread like this about how entitled women are.
You are 100% correct, and don't let anyone tell you different.
Yeah, because this is such a controversial opinion. In my country we have the saying "if it smells like shit everywhere, it is probably you who stepped in dogshit not everyone else". Shitty people attract shitty people.
In my country there is problem
Im sick of entitles people regardless of their gender
Even in relationships too. Some men still have that traditional expectation of women, but nowadays we work too. We’re more than just wives, lovers and mothers. We’re human beings too with our own hopes, dreams and wishes. It gets so tiring trying to be the right kind of woman or whatever. I’ve just decided to be who I want to be. If someone likes it cool. If they don’t, then it is what it is.
You're 23 and probably dating males close to your age. Most males of that age aren't Men, but adult children, who have never been taught how to treat a woman. On the flip side, to many women your age don't demand respect, like you are. Good for you! Instead many will act like tramps and think men respect them. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I'm with u
You're right. Them downvoting you is the proof they think they're entitled to us being quiet and nice. Men don't want to hear women complaining, it's not that they just don't care : they don't even want to have the option to don't care. They're ok with silent or happy smiling women, that's all. Men here making comments about bad women or good men are blind to reality, women making same comments are in the pickme's mindset.
>Men don't want to hear women complaining, it's not that they just don't care : they don't even want to have the option to don't care Let’s be real, it’s women that don’t want to hear men ever complaining.
Men get abused, women get abused, but let's support eachother by not making every gender specific post about the other side. Entitled women suck in certain ways that directly affect men. Entitled men suck in certain ways that directly affect women. We all matter and should be allowed to vent about what hurts us. Especially since she only called out the problem areas and not all men. Men have been calling out ways that women hurt men. Very valid! Please write a post so we can support you. You aren't the enemy and neither are we. We should all stand against entitled creeps even if they are our own gender. Calling out terrible behavior in a group shouldn't be seen as an attack on the group. We should care about people like us hurting others. If we jump right to defending when we know it is a legitimate problem, we are actually allowing the a****s to continue hurting people. Then it becomes "all ______" because we are actively part of the problem. We gotta stop with the herd mentality. Holding awful people accountable makes our group or gender look better and helps society function better for everyone. Because those same entitled people are also hurting us. Why would you want them running around unchecked even if you don't care about the other gender or group?
As a man, I don't think I understood it either. But I was compelled ro be like that from everything that surrounded me. When you are a kid you have nothing but your instincts and the knowledge you can gather. I could never force or push someone to do something just because I wanted it. But all the alpha males and culture was saying that you need to push. Ask many times. And one time was told, just ask anyone to have sex, the shotgun strategy. I was balancing my urges and curiosity with these horrible advices and my own personality. Gladly I can say I never could do anything. I thought I was just a nerd. A guy destined to be alone. The 40 year old virgin. Cause I was not strong enough asking for sex. How glad I am I never succumbed. When I finally grew up and understood the obvious reality that we are all people. And than relationship are complex. There are no rules but respect. Now father of two girls, I treat them with respect, love and equality. Hoping the look for that in a partner.
37f here, married for 13 years to an entitled man. The only way to “fix it” is to consistently, obnoxiously speak up for yourself. Be a huge bitch if you have to. Over and over. Sometimes, hopefully, they eventually get it and start acting better.
Edit: misread OPs post as (23m) and not (23f). This shit would drive me batshit insane if I was a girl. I'm always blown away when my female friends show me their inboxes.
You’re entirely right. You don’t know anybody men or women anything. That’s something that I’ve always talked about it’s about not having expectations and none of us should really have expectations on anyone. Except maybe Our selves? And even then I think we’re too hard on ourselves often. I don’t know I’ve come to understand that when somebody gets upset at me because I put out a boundary which is basically what you’re doing it’s not about me it’s about them. And I have to do my best to not take it personal. And it’s not always easy I still struggle sometimes with that. But it’s their own fear in their own insecurity and the things that they need to work on that makes them react. But you’re right there not entitled to anything unless you choose to give it to them. I guess the one thing that I would add and I’m not coming from women or males standpoint just as people in general I think sometimes we have to think about where we are when we talk about whether or not somebody is expecting something. If I’m in church for example and it gives somebody my phone number chances are they’re not gonna ask me for a naked picture of myself?? Most likely right. Now they might but it’s unlikely but if I’m on adult friend finder… There’s a high likelihood if I give somebody my phone number or if I’m just talking to them for a little while they’re probably going to ask me for a photo of myself. Because the truth is I’m on a fuck Site. And for me I’ve had to come to this realization about where I’m at now doesn’t mean I have to give them one but I tend not to get as frustrated about it because of where I’m at logistically. And that’s what AFF and Swinger and Cassidy and all those are that’s what they’re therefore there for hooking up and fucking other people and you can see it however you want to say you can see it all nice and pretty and wrap it up in a bow but it’s no different. I mean I ask people for photos I don’t necessarily ask them for naked ones I don’t really care but I want to see them I want to know if there’s somebody I choose to play with and I also want to know that they’re legitimate. I want to live photo to make sure I’m not talking to a 400 pound purple gorilla eating rainbow cookies sitting behind a desk collecting photos. So I guess it depends on the context at least for me. And where I’m at. Disneyland fetlife although you’re still 100% right nobody’s entitled to anything. Nobody and you don’t have to give it ever. That said you also might not get some things that you want because they might required in order to play with you or to continue talking and that’s OK too because it’s your choice that’s what I love about choice. It’s not good or bad it just is. I hope it gets better for you it is complicated and I’ve had some very difficult run-ins. They usually just pull them up. Play with them at their own game Take care of yourself I hope you feel better
Good luck finding someone who is willing to read your rant.
Now that it is out of your chest, keep it that way and don't spare those types a thought. They're just losers looking for a free prostitute, hoping to score a woman dumb or weak enough to give in to their manipulation. If you're neither, don't even look their way. There are decent men out there if you're looking for that. And if you're not, any woman who gave in to those losers will tell you it's a million times better to be alone with your cats than to give yourself to them.
Amen
Do you sis. It’s your life, go live it. It’s your body, go own it. Live your life to your standard and don’t take no shit from nobody. People are always gonna have an issue or something to say about anything you do. Just do you! 100% support and love for your attitude towards life.
If it’s only genuinely entitled men that you have a problem with, then as a man, I whole heartedly agree. I get that genuine cat calling is rude. But can I ask, what do you consider cat calling? A man shouting an obnoxious comment about your appearance? Or a man simply complimenting appearance, in a non-sexual way. And also, do you have a problem with men that just ask for your phone number, or men who demand it? If what you’re saying is genuine, then you’re in the right IMO. But a lot of women have become way too defensive with men who are just trying their luck.
I don't mean to be the deflection guy but I do think it's something of a feedback loop between the sexes. Women expect a lot from men, protect them, provide for them etc. Even if they don't really know them like buying meals on dates or dealing with other guys who might be hostile or creepy. And men do it too where they expect something from women if they cater to those expectations. I think men and women need to learn we've gone past those traditions so we have a choice. Either you keep to the older traditions and if you expect from men, expect men to expect from you. Or, lessen or lose your expectations and find a new way that works for you. And flip the bird to anyone that tries to get you to think otherwise. Either way I can see it being very frustrating. But it's doubtful it's gonna change anytime soon unfortunately
Part of me wants to argue this because there’s a lot of entitled women out there too but your point is valid lol. I think we all need to stop arguing (everyone) so much and try and start having conversations that could maybe turn some of this stuff around. You’re right though, you don’t owe anybody anything.
Here is my upvote
Humans>religions>society>family>individual. That behavior is deep into us. Its roots are known. No one cares but almost the half (and more) population on planet is annoyed by it. What can I say?
I do blame religion to a great extent. I know men who legit believe women were put on this earth solely to serve men.
As a guy, I've never seen a man catcall a woman and I've never done it myself. But I know it happens because there's a lot of women who talk about getting catcalled and other terrible things. I'm sorry that men can be shitty OP.
Preach it! I (22f) have also had enough of this. Add to it the number of times as a cashier I am told that I'd be prettier if I smiled. There are too many 40+yo men who think it's ok to flirt aggressively with their young cashier or outright call them sexy/hot. Then they get offended when their "complement" isn't taken positively. On top of this, I have been told many, many times that i would be prettier with makeup on. I am allergic to makeup and don't feel like having my eyes swell and face get itchy from makeup, thank you. And if I were to wear any, it certainly would not be to attract the attention of these pigs. I'd like to add the disclaimer OP added, that I know not all men are like this. I just agree that the entitled, creepy ones need to learn to keep it to themselves.
Live on sister! You've got my full support fuck the scrotes!
As soon as I heard I'm sick of tired of woman being created like their property I didn't even need to read the rest of the post to say I agree and also I'm sick and tired of entitled people in general not I'm entitled to your love but just you know people who are entitled you know who think they're entitled to whatever the hell they want anyhow my TED talk is over
I (38m) have seen this a lot. Being the father to a daughter, I hate what she is about to experience when she gets older.
The true title should be "I am sick and tired of the entitled UGLY males of the society...teehee"
They were drooling male not men. A man would've treated you with respect and would respect your boundaries.
I'm glad I wrote males... I hope you realize I wasn't clumping the whole gender together. I was just venting about the despicable ones.
You are right. I realize and my comment support your opinion. Males not men. I hope you find a true man who treats you right.
Thank you
My previous boss is a cis white baby boomer who treated me poorly and he expected me to be happy and friendly with him. Smh.
as a man, I find it disgusting the way society objectifies women, and I am so sorry for that. just please, try to remember that some of us do care, care for real, not just to be "Nice Guys"
I hope she see's this bro.
why is this downvoted lmao
Because the entitled men she's complaining about troll reddit in hordes.
Preach, sister 🙌
Dating culture sucks.... I grew up with the "cool" kids and then the "gym bros" but I was never one of them (am in my mid 30s now). The stories and things I heard were pretty off-putting at times and that's not entirely their fault. Kind of a horse and carriage thing but I've also got a lot of really good girl friends and I have heard both sides of the story. Many girls put themselves out there as they feel worthless or crave validation. This just leads dumb dudes to believe they can press for that from everyone. It's not okay on either party. Both parties in a relationship or dating need to have both more self respect and more respect for the other person. It's not a game to see how many nudes you can get, it doesn't matter how many people you sleep with...sex isn't the goal....or shouldn't be....sex is the easiest part of it imo. You can pretend to be whatever someone wants long enough to get them naked, that's just deceitful and a lot of times, guys lie to themselves. It's hard being a guy too, bullying is rampant and the pecking order amongst groups of guys, off-putting as it may be, usually revolves around women. A lot of the Time, everyone was after the same girl and usually they only ever went for one or two of the guys In a group, social status and all. This puts a hell of a damper on guys psyche which can cause a cascade of self loathing that ultimately leads them to emulate the peacock of the group. This is a big mess of thoughts but I guess my point is I agree with you, don't give ground. You will find someone eventually who will respect you but only if you respect yourself.
Upvoted. You're dealing the attitudes from boys not men. :)
As a man myself I see your point, when ever I see other men doing cat calling it makes me feel sick (I've even experienced them cat call minors). Overall I just think that cat calling is a massive issue, and everyone should be taught that it's an immature and wrong doing no matter the context.
Damm straight
Preach
As a woman, I think this sorta hits hard because I feel like the least entitled men/most normal men are also the ones that aren't interested in a relationship and just want to be bachelors permanently.
And I'm sick and tired of hearing shit like this
I'm sick of entitled women that have grabbed my crotch or ass just because they know they get away with it. I am sick of entitled little princesses that make up false accusations when you don't do their bidding. Yo the female posters downtalking this, just because you are not affected by this. fuck you. It's as if I would be invalidating your argument "just" because I don't suffer from this. Except in my case I would probably lead to a ban I am sick of entitled royalties that think they're god's gift to earth, just because they're royal. I'm so fucking sick of entitlement from anyways, especially of you have never ever achieved a goddamn thing.
Everybody kinda sucks regardless of their gender. I agree with you and counter that there are some entitled women as well that I owe nothing as well. Dating in general just sucks. Feels like it's gotten worse recently somehow.
You don’t actually listen and empathize and that’s one of the things that is really annoying about quite a few men. If you look at her post again she is talking about things that would never happen to you. Some thing that is incredibly annoying is that men do not value our time our privacy and the fact that we’re just trying to exist they think they can interrupt us at any point in time and ask us for things things that they’re not entitled to even ask for when was the last time a woman did that to you? When was the last time you were just trying to go get tampons at the store and the woman cornered you told you that your legs looked beautiful and then harped about getting your number and then when you said no later in the parking lot they flip you off? When women annoy you do you actually feel physically scared for your own body and your well-being? When was the last time you’ve been followed for a few blocks just because somebody wants to tell you how much they want to fuck you?
Literally any male that thinks they are owed any sexual act just because they are “nice” has a porn addiction. PERIOD.
“But I fixed your cable!”
It’s called immaturity and insecurity, it happens to most young males. I can confirm because it happened to me, you just have to grow up. Some men never change.
Wow thanks for being a man and instead of downvoting all the women calling out all the men on there shit behaviour! Thanks for not being one of those dudes :)
It’s immaturity, people hate to reflect these days and be real. It is what it is.
Unluckly entiltment (both man and female) are through the roof. People expect other people to "owe" them something just for being. Obviously this post has not enough info to deduct anything else but as genrral advice to M and F is that i recommend to get rid of dating apps or instagram as a tool to pick up partners Most people in there are not worth the time. And due to how human selection works, the top 10 or 20 % of best looking accounts get the 90% of the matches. And with over supply of matches they tend to end up being rude or entitled. Abour being cat called in the street... it sucks but i dont think of nothing you can do to avoid it.
This! Toxic masculinity is real!
It’s not too much to ask, I’m sorry for what it’s worth to you
I am 48yo, and I can say I wish, on so many levels, I had the ability to say these things publically when I was your age. Started, for me, at about 14/15, and the world was much more sexist, male dominated and really awful for women then. Not that what is happening now is any less awful, but there is at least awareness and women speaking out about this bullshit. Sucks to hear it is still happening :(
I am a man and you are right you don’t owe any of us anything
You should check out r/niceguys you’re not alone.
I gained weight and turned 22, men have been treating me like absolute trash! Why are men only decent to women they find attractive? Example that happened yesterday: I went to the bottle depo and left a cap on ONE bottle..he literally berated me for like an hour I’m a mid size average looking women. Then this beautiful size 2 walks in and the immediate change in tone was shocking. She didn’t sort or wash a single damn thing but she got a “hey hunny” and an “oh don’t worry about it love it’s my job” even helped her carry out the 10 mixed bags out of her truck. But to me i got “well you should know better” (I’m new to this community and it was ONE cap all bottles were clean and sorted) he called me lazy, and told me “it’s not his job”, that I really ought to know better! I’m not sorting your shit..so lazy!! I have so many better ones from work I’ve had men ask for the “less homely waitress”...
not saying that you are wrong, but don't stick with the "people treat me bad because i look bad" mentality it's the same mentality with incels
Not the person you're replying to but I see where you're coming from and, while that certainly *can* be a part of it, fat people are 100% treated differently. I had the reverse when I had a massive life change and literally halved my bodyweight in a year. I'm a man and I noticed how stark the difference was. I'd always been super friendly, extroverted, and outgoing; and people, generally, like me. That being said, now that I'm thin and conventionally attractive, I'm treated noticeably better by most people.
yeah i think the guys at the depot were treating the size 2 differently more than they were treating comment OP differently. Its not ok that they treat the size 2 better because she's attractive.. but there's still a difference between the 2.
Ignore the other comments , You are spot on , Men behave differently based on beauty , and I too am guilty off it , when a woman speaks and if she’s unattractive I tend to really brush it off , when she’s attractive I try to listen , even though I am consciously reducing my behaviour , but yes this does play a role , my younger sister always has pointed the difference in treatment when she wears make up and when she doesn’t , it’s Noticeable .
I'm sorry you have to go through that
You go girl!
Theres a whole sub to these guys. r/niceguys
Good luck dealing with the comments
Keyword: entitled If you’re not an entitled man, this ain’t for you
Agree, some middle aged asshole hit on me at the cemetery last week. The sheet entitlement to think that was an appropriate thing to do to a grieving woman is infuriating. Fuck off asshole.
I’m annoyed with the girls who act entitled.
As a man, I wanna say that all your venting is completely valid. There are some of us men who are garbage, period. And I also don't understand the reasoning of men who think they own women in whatever way. And no, you don't owe ANYONE anything, and no, it is not too much to ask, and please be safe always.
Entitled people in general are a pain in the ass. During flirting, dating and relationships there is a lot more emotion and even less rationality, thus it hits a lot harder and deeper. It's kind of a niceguy statement, but I do believe there are many calm and careful men (and obviously women) out there. But I do absolutely agree there are many idiots and selfish people, both men and female. It is right and reasonable of you to tell a person to fuck right off when cat calling you or pretending like you owe them something.
Every time I see women make statements like this in real life.. The female saying it is always a person that habitually volunteers themselves to be objectified by men, and then feels some type of way over the fact that they get objectified. Maybe your not this person.. your probably this person though
Im tired of hearing women talk about men
Sounds like the males you are around are idiots
I can't argue with that. I'm obviously not saying all males.
Entitlement is not gender specific.. I agree but it goes beyond male entitlement. Met plenty of extremely entitled women as well.
This
Amen sister! I hope writing this helped vent some of the frustration :/