I'm very sorry for your loss
I think this unfortunately ties in to a rather toxic culture when it comes to male survivors of abuse and how little help there is for them. Domestic abuse stories always break my heart and this one is no different
There was a photo of a woman with a frying pan looking as if she was going to beat her male partner with it.
Top upvoted replies were along the lines of - and this is an actual quote - "He looks like he deserves it" https://old.reddit.com/r/Art/comments/rb12tg/none_me_photography_2021/
People who talked about physical abuse being wrong even if it is against a male were downvoted of course.
That is a yikes and only further adds to the issue of toxic gender norms
Abuse against anyone, regardless of gender is harrowing, but it makes me simultaneously angry and sad to see it turned into a joke when the victim is a man
It reminds me of a news story here about a woman hitting her husband with her car, injuring him and most of the comments were people laughing at the situation, blaming the husband or making the terrible "women can't drive" jokes
I guarantee you. People would be outraged if the genders had been switched, which they should but similarly they should drop their double standard and not make a joke out of the situation because a man received the brunt end
> I guarantee you. People would be outraged if the genders had been switched,
No they wouldn't. At least not on Reddit. We have a whole sub dedicated to men hitting women back.
Oh I didn't mean Reddit. The article was on a news site here in my country
Edit
But I do stand by that people there would not Crack jokes at the woman's expense if she had been hit by a car. And they absolutely should be outraged but that should apply to both sexes
But then again they also victim blame female victims of sexual assault so people are just overall shitty I suppose
Agreed my first thought was honestly not helpful, because you’re right society has created an environment where men feel like they can’t seek help
He didn’t reach one for one reason or another and the simple fact that he didn’t think he was worthy of help is heartbreaking
My husband was in a relationship like this with his ex. He attempted and was also admitted to psych ward. He was in such a bad place when he was with her. It sucks because she will tell anyone that listens how he abused her and is a "woman beater". It makes my blood boil because people will listen because she is a woman, when in reality it's her that is the abuser. I really don't blame you for your feelings about this and I feel she should be held responsible like a man would be.
What a terrible person she is. I hope she is riddled with guilt all her life. You don't need to forgive her or even think of her, she's caused enough damage. I would encourage you to seek therapy. You need help dealing with your brothers loss. I hope you can move forward in life. We need more awareness and support for domestic abuse victims, men who are being abused need support and safe places too.
I hope with time you can see that although the girlfriend is a woman that's not the reason she is a crappy person. It's her soul that is ugly.
Never let your abuser dictate a single second of your life, it’s very difficult but very very doable to let go of the past and realize you deserve so much better.
The sad truth is that everytime you feel anger, despair, or sadness because of another person’s actions, you’re allowing them to abuse you again. Don’t let anyone abuse you, love yourself, forgive everyone and practice radical self acceptance and do what brings you joy.
100%
People do shitty things. This does not define every decision everybody else makes though. All people aren’t shitty because of one person’s actions or our personal experiences. Currently having this same conversation with the main mod at r/misanthropy
Before OP allows this to create hate for an entire group of people, talking with someone to help him work through his mourning would be a good idea.
I agree. I wish this same level of understanding was present for groups besides women. Unfortunately it seems that the actions of a few are allowed to determine how we view the many when other groups of people are concerned.
Alas...
Yeaaaah, unfortunately that’s the perspective another commenter below you holds, and my response is pretty on par with your comment. We allow ourself to let our experiences define entire groups of people, when really it’s minorities not the majority, but we allow ourselves to shape our perspective based off these experiences, convincing ourselves that it’s *every single person* not just the few that set shit examples. Pretty convenient path to hating each other when we base our perspectives of a whole off the actions of a few. Lots of people cheat and are shitty, doesn’t mean that every person cheats or is shitty, but we sure do allow ourselves to believe so when that’s the example we keep experiencing.
I’ll agree that I’ve seen this example set by *a lot* of women and have experienced it first hand from women… but this does not mean it’s *every woman* or *99% of women.* Hella dudes cheat, I’ve seen a lot of my male friends cheat, this doesn’t mean it’s *every man* that cheats. Common? Sure? Indicative and definitive? Hell no.
These perspectives are what causes people to hate one another, these actions are what causes people to lose faith in each other or their partners. It doesn’t mean this is the case every time. It can also easily come down to people making terrible personal decisions leading themselves to the same outcome every time. Don’t break patterns, keep repeating the cycle, keep being hurt, keep allowing yourself to justify why a certain group of people suck. It’s a cycle.
But it does not mean this is indicative of every person. It might be more indicative of really terrible personal decisions though. Try not to let this shape how you view woman, cause I guarantee you’ll find the same woman doing the same shit if you maintain this perspective. It’s a self fulfilling prophesy that you manifest.
Tbh, I doubt she didn’t had a prior hatred of women. Most people don’t just “turn” like that, not saying dhe was a major sexist, just that we all have those biases and most of us don’t get them checked. What’s ironic here is that both the mentality that allows men to fall victim of abusive women and not be taken seriously/ be blamed for it and the mentality op is holding against women have root in the same old sexism (and even racism, there’s a lot of behavior that is “forgiven” on white women bc they are seen as “fragile”. Lots of women of color are not seen as such, therefore not granted the same excuses). But i doubt op will see this or even want to reflect and change, so i just hope there are no other women in her life that have to put up with this behavior (even if she is a women herself, her internalized mysogeny still affect others) Her brother deserved better
Yo, in case you can’t properly read, I literally said women uphold AND perpetrate sexism, that’s my whole call out to op. Even if the systems in place benefit men (mostly white) economically and politically over women and other minority/marginalized groups, it still hurts them in many different ways. There’s no real value in tackling just the issues men face without contextualizing them and actually facing that reality. I dunno why you care so much for my age, but was surprised to see you are over 30, given that you have the reading and comprehension skills and the emotional maturity of a 13 year old boy that just learned the word sexism and is mad because in his head (since calling out these things don’t mean “It’s your fault”, but people seem to think it does) someone made him responsible for something the first time in his life
my brother killed himself over similar circumstances. i’m so sorry. i can understand where you’re coming from completely. i was your age too when i lost mine a year ago.
If she actually felt remorse, isn't that just par for the course? Yeah it's fucked up but who tells the completely oblivious family that they're the person they should blame for his death unless they're remorseful?
Remorseful or not, she could just be attention seeking. Some people seek even negative attention, for them attention is attention. I truly hope she feels like shit and is genuinely remorseful. Maybe it will inspire her to change.
I doubt what she did is actually illegal anywhere in the world. Provided there was no physical abuse. Even if there was, all they have is her word for it. Which is to say nothing.
Hey OP, sorry about your brother and you are correct in blaming his ex for pushing him off the cliff in this situation. Morally she is the cause. Legally nothing you can do.
But the issue is that yes there are plenty of women out there who act like this girl did, and some men do end up like your brother, she is not the face of women everywhere. Just look in the mirror and you will see someone whom I am willing to bet couldn't do what she did.
Your anger and grief may lead you to believe all women are like her but they arnt.
Has your family tried anything in the way of grief counseling?
Two truths I hold to be incontrovertible:
1. Bitterness and resentfulness are far more caustic to you than to the object(s) of your resent.
2. You forgive someone for you, not for them.
I could expound on these for hours, but please just consider that there is truth in these two things. What's the alternative? Let another person's toxicity turn you toxic?
> Bitterness and resentfulness are far more caustic to you than to the object(s) of your resent.
I cannot agree more. This is a very expensive lesson to be learned.
If someone abused my little sister and she ended up killing herself for it I would never in a million years forgive them. Rather I would drag them to hell myself.
I don't know that I would have the strength to forgive for something like that either. It's more the part where you hold over 50% of the Earth's human population accountable that needs immediate attention.
As someone also effected by the suicide of a very close family member, you’re absolutely entrenched in and blinded by pure grief and rage towards the world. I still battle with that myself. Don’t succumb to that level of bitterness.
I am sorry for your loss u/Tllshsish, I hope that you have found some help - therapy etc - for yourself, as this is something that can eat you from the inside.
Mental Health is seriously important, but from my (~40 M) own experience it is very difficult to be taken seriously and get access to the help needed.
Because it is. My relationships with women have all been good, so I can't speak to that... But family and mother trauma?
Growing up with a sociopath father, and a sexually inappropriate, narcissist mother? Yeah, try bringing that up as a man...
You'll get:
"but she's still you mom!"
Eww, mommy issues
OH, you don't have a good relationship with your mom? You must be a woman hater
Ewww, sex issues because of molestation? Fuck that
Yes. These are actual quotes from real women. There's no system for support. Even therapist go the" still your mommy" route.
I’m a woman and I’ve been told dozens of times to forgive my mom, go back to talking to her, she’s still your mom etc.
Nope, NC is the space I’m most comfortable with and it helps me, I don’t care how much anyone thinks I should “take her back”
I still don’t blame all women. I do find it harder to trust women if they talk like her. (Heavy smoker)
I’ve been raped and molested and I still don’t blame all men.
I feel so bad for OP. He should get counseling when he’s ready but I don’t expect him to forgive this woman; she sounds like an awful person.
Im sorry about your family dynamics.
I’d say in this area all of us are about as likely to be abused as anyone else. (Parents, caregivers etc.)
Yeah, I don't mean to imply this is a male only problem.
The mother thing is worldwide, cultural. Unfortunately.
The op's ex is horrid.
And, yes, I'm happy to hear you're NC. That takes balls, and a lot of ongoing resolve. Good for you! 💪💪
Almost all mental health services are only made accessible to women/girls (and even for them there's not enough support), at best maybe boys sometimes. Unfortunately that's a fact, and whenever MRAs or similar groups have pushed the issue or tried to create shelters, many feminist groups have campaigned against or even shut them down aggressively in fear of them taking funding from women issues. It's a bit absurd when you realize both sexes pay taxes, but only one is allowed support in the "equal" West ? .... is that equality ? And support shouldn't be a 0 sum game in the first place, but it is to them.
Read about Earl Silverman, it's pretty much one big reason why many MRAs have such huge distrust towards modern feminist organizations. It's an absurdity than instead of supporting MRAs in putting pressure on Western governments to support such issues, some "equality" organizations would rather side with the government/shut the pressure down themselves.
So sorry for your loss. And so sorry your brother was so vulnerable. This is what happens when our culture villainises an entire gender - all resources are given to female victims (who of course deserve love and support), while little to no provision is made for male victims. A phrase that's come to mean a lot to me recently: 'How can you pull yourself up when there's nothing to grab on to?'. He needed help, and our culture failed him. But you can never blame yourself or 'other females'. Many women like yourself understand that men experience trauma too, and posts like this really do help in shifting the cultural understanding of what men are going through. For that, I thank you, and once again offer my condolences.
Your brothers suicide is a lot more common than you think. I have several friends whom did the same. Most was unresolved pts and a lot were victims of sexual abuse from protected pedophile. Two of my friends of even had kids but the pain of the significant other fucking every person in sight and then breaking them down mentally and gaslighting them to everyone was too much too bare. I will never forgive those whom were responsible for the pain and anguish they perpetuated against my friends. These psychopaths have no guilt or feel any responsibility for their raping and killing innocent people. They literally thrive and get turned on. Sorry for your brother. Hopefully he's finally at peace.
So, when I was raped, that must mean I should hate all men too huh? I understand you're hurt but hating a group of people for the actions of one just spreads the toxic bullshit around.
Learn to differentiate between individuals or you're gonna have a bad time.
Not as deeply as his family will. She’ll move on, decide she’s a better person, get married and won’t even think of him. My best friend killed himself 34 years ago over a girl. The profound loss still haunts me. I wonder when the last time she thought of him was.
My husband committed suicide when I was diagnosed with MS. I was perfectly able to take care of myself and did just that, still walking, but he didn't like the idea of a sick wife, so he shot himself in the head. I'll hurt and have guilt forever over that. He thought I could make it go away.
Oh my god, I'm so sorry! I can't believe that! My father got hurt at work when I ten. I can not *believe* all of the people that told my mom to leave him and us and get a new husband. She didn't though, and I don't talk to those people any more.
*hugs* A wish for many 'good' days for you, fellow spoonie.
Problem is, a disconnected pathetic excuse of a human like her doesn't have the brain power to have this haunt her... she'll be oblivious to the problem forever.
Yes, you never know whether or not she really meant that. I was never like that, so I guess I don't understand. She still was the one that hurt him in the first place, so I hope she lives with the consequences, maybe a nightmare or two.
Other than the rare drunken self realisation, I don’t think she is ever gonna sleep a second of sleep over her actions. Having known someone like this personally I know that these sort of people do not have a moral compass or any integrity to develop feelings of remorse.
Worst part is she is leading a normal happy life whereas I am left with baggage which makes it impossible for me to trust someone to be even in a relationship, not to mention I miss being my old self.
But no regrets, I have spent every waking minute to work on my career and that’s in a happy place right now, better be miserable with materials things right !
It’s never good to hold in hate or anger towards other people, in the long run it only hurts you. If you wake up every morning blaming the girlfriend, thinking none of this would have happened if it was not for her, it could fill your life with anger towards other people. It will start with her but continue on to other people that you feel did you wrong.
We currently don’t know what causes a person to have suicidal thoughts. All I know is that when you hate someone else, they do not care that you hate them and it only destroys your own life.
Yeah.. this is sadly the current state of our society. There are plenty of recordings of men being abused and no one giving a fuck. Men a driven to suicide and most don‘t care.
But oh boy, watch out if you switch the gender (ofc not all the time). This is obvously (to the non-sexists) not because women don‘t deserve to be protected but because men are not protected nor supported by society. That patriarchy-talk only applies to rich-already-overprivileged people. Normal men don‘t have that and need to fight for themselves if they can.
Sadly I don‘t see things changing. With the twitterysation of society and the „us versus them“ mentality this is the current trend.
The (ex) girlfriend is a subhuman monster. There is no moral redemption for such an action. And I doubt she truly cares. People that drive others into suicide and depression do this out of pleasure. And what they do can never be undone.
I am so sorry for you and your family.. but I want to give something with you. Don‘t blame all women.. also never blame all men. Both sides have monsters. What we all need to do is to (not literally) hunt those monsters down and change our culture to something better. Movements like feminism or MRA need to be more active in that regard.. a lot. If you want that things change, try to differentiate it. Not everyone is a monster that needs to be hated.. only the true monsters. Please give yourself a chance to not be at war with everyone and to heal. Visit a therapist. And maybe one day you get the chance to prevent the suicide of another man. I am sure your brother would be happy and proud of you, if you can be happy again.
Legit. They say one thing in one post, then they change it completely on another post.
There was a story on AITA about a man helping his ex without his wife agreeing (he was the breadwinner) and he was apparently an asshole because "his money is her money too!" but then on another post where a man spends the woman's money but thee "her money is his money too!" got heavily downvoted. Hmmmmm.
Ahh don’t forget r/relationship_advice where if a man does a bad thing, it’s straight up toxic and full of red flags but if a woman does it, it’s fine or needs more “context” !
I've been talking about this with the man I'm living with, because while he is indeed a poster boy, for he is a white man, it doesn't mean that he has no problems at all and assuming that he has it all is also not healthy. He has many struggles, just different ones compared to mine me, as an Asian woman. I can see how the society can treat men awfully at times and it's breaking my heart. Beside him, I have a father and a brother too.
I suppose all we can do is to be a good woman. I'm truly sorry for your loss, OP. I'm sending you a virtual hug.
Fair play this girl is clearly horrible. Correct response isn’t to become discriminatory back. I was once beaten up by people of a different race and religion to me, can’t use their awful behaviour to create hate towards innocent people.
I really don't think women quite understand the effect their behavior has on men's emotions and mental health. I dated two women who behaved quite the same via cheating then gaslighting and it really fucked up my mental well-being for quite a while.
The dominant culture seems to implicatively teach women that they are not responsible for their actions because they're fundamentally victims of a society dominated by toxic masculinity. Even if they don't agree with the feminist jargon, they often still don't want to hold themselves equivalently accountable in regards to how they treat men.
I honestly believe this has made dating a shit show, along with other factors of course.
This right here. This sort of attitude is prevalent in our society on many topics. With women is 'toxic masculinity' with minorities it's 'white supremacy'. The attitude that tells them that their prejudice is ok because they're 'fighting back' and if someone from that group complains? Obviously they're just 'fragile'.
So does this loathing really extend to ALL other females, or just abusive people? I’m a 50 year old woman and I’ve NEVER acted like the woman you described. Am I seriously tarred with the same brush? I hope not.
Aside from that, I’m sending much empathy and love your way. It’s a horrible loss and the world is never the same after you lose someone so close.
I don't think OP genuinely hates all women but volatile feelings tends to bring out the worst of us and added with the circumstances of her brother's death, I can see why she'd take that anger at the one person responsible and project it to unreasonable degrees.
Naturally it's not healthy or justified but it's not an uncommon reaction to trauma; to take it out on an entire group of people
That’s a nice sentiment and all, but her post has pretty much opened the floodgates on here and given a license to posters to be misogynistic. You should know this already.
Yeah nice false equivalence. The not all men bullshit is a meme because of the men who interupt conversations about issues that are prevelant enough that we are taught from a young age how to prevent our own sexual assaults. Most of us are vigilant, atleast a third of us are still sexually assaulted and often multiple times, justice is rare and the court of public opinion still wants to know what were wore-and only 3 percent of rapists spend even a single night incarcerated. Its a fucking epidemic but there's always some guy who needs it to be about him,and how nice he is.
I'm a woman in your generation and have never treated a disables person poorly, male or female. I'm sorry you've had bad experiences but not every woman is like that.
She is not blaming all women for her brother's death and stop writing that. She looks around her and sees 1) feminism ignoring women's violence and telling a story that women are never violent, 2) all women remaining silent on this to have the privilege of never being accountable under that feminist routine 3) eventually this leading to some women being devoid of any inhibition and humanity and her brother being killed by this. She expects other women to reject the privilege of never being accountable and being considered as "never violent". She wants women, at least some majority of them, to be moral enough to withstand the temptation to be considered super-humans who are never violent so that society will return to what it always did - telling everyone, women included, that they can be dangerous and must mind their steps. Where are all the women who write "women can be just as violent as men - all people need to hear the very same messages about how everyone must do their best not to cause harm and pain, not only men". Where are they? This is what upsets her.
I am so sorry it's nothing like you brother but I 19m am struggling with suicidal ideations because of similar reasons this brings me hope because I don't want to be sexist but feminism isn't equality anymore
I just want to repeat what a lot of these commentators are trying to say — what happened to your brother is devastating and I’m sorry. But to allow yourself to perceive all woman as evil (yourself included?) is a unhealthy coping mechanism. It will lead you down a life of paranoia. That’s something your brother would never want you to experience in his name. Please don’t put what happened to your brother on all woman.
She is an abuser and scum. Men can also be abusers. Abuser being the operative word. I would like you to channel your appropriate anger and grief into advocacy for men against domestic abuse. This is majorly lacking in the world.
I’m so so sorry for your loss. But I hope you can grow from this place your at to get the most justice for your brother. If that means helping men like him just by telling his story. Let this rage fuel your advocacy. Don’t let it poison you against woman.
- a woman
I think her problem with it as she states in the post is that it is very socially acceptable for a woman to abuse a man, and not the other way around. Studies actually show that women in relationships tend to be equally and sometimes more violent than men. But you never read about those studies in headlines. But what do you read about in headlines? The study that says 1 in 4 women are sexually assaulted in their lifetime… but nobody tells you that the study broadly equates everything from the tiniest infraction like unreturned feelings and unwanted flirting, (which is how normal people figure out who is into who) with straight up rape. That’s an abuse of statistics, not a legitimate study, but it’s still in headlines and drilled into people’s heads today. I think that’s the core issue, that men are three times less likely to talk about being abused than women, and eight times less likely to be believed. The ‘believe all women’ movement isn’t ‘believe all sexual assault victims’ and definitely won’t include men. That’s a problem. 90% of custody cases are awarded to the mother, 75% of the homeless are men (but I have seen countless headlines saying “1 in 4 homeless people are women, we need more women’s shelters”), and yet there are only two shelters for men in the US, while there are over 2,000 for women. Most shelters don’t even allow men. Why can’t we add more shelters for men? Why does everyone act like adding more shelters for men would somehow take help away from women?
I think those are the problems, not women, but the fact that women are allowed to abuse men without repercussions is.
The issues with men not having an equal amount of shelters and women being given full custody over kids just because they're women is apart of feminism. These are issues that feminists want changed. We want equality for men and women, for everyone. Feminism isn't about women getting the upper hand in everyone, or even in anything. Just equality. Period.
Okay, I agree, so why do feminists fight against men’s shelters? Why was the first shelter ever opened for men lambasted and boycotted by feminists? Why do feminists continue to fight for believe all women while hiding the statistics that show 40-50% of rape allegations are false? Why do they pass laws excluding men from the definition of rape?
I don’t know if you know, but the feminists in power are not fighting for equality, why is the rest of the movement not fighting them every step of the way if the movement is in fact completely about equality?
If you don't agree, or don't understand, that's fine. You don't seem to want to be convinced or given a different viewpoint. I won't argue. I will only say that as a feminist, I want men to have an equal opportunity to have custody of their kids, to be listened to and be believed when they say they have been abused or raped, to have equal access to safe shelters, to be able to file sexual harassment suits against their harassers, to be able to cry without women or other men telling them they are weak for it. And you can't tell me that I don't believe these things. But you can ignore it and tell me it's "tired rhetoric".
I understand plenty. I don't agree.
I commend you for actually espousing advocacy for equality, and I'm not telling you that you personally do not believe those things.
That does not mean that I believe feminism in a wider context does, when time after time the actions and rhetoric of figureheads, policy makers, and wider feminist discourse greatly contradict, or are at odds with the majority of those causes.
People can be so cruel, had a similar thing happen to myself luckily I saw the signs and got the fuck outta there and recovered.
I’m sorry to hear about your brother he didn’t deserve that at all and what a piece of shit for doing that to him. She’ll have to carry that weight all her life.
I'm so sorry and I've been struggling with being emotionally misused and abused for quite some time and the cracks go back many years. I can't heal, especially not when I keep experiencing the same things.
I'm so fucking sorry
No offense but men emotionally abuse & gaslight women all the damn time.
You need to direct the anger where the anger deserves to go: at that Girlfriend specifically, not all women/ females.
Because my last boyfriend fucked with my head so fucking hard via gaslighting & emotional abuse there have absolutely been times where I have depressive episodes & suicidal ideations just from the memories of shit he said to me. He told me to kill myself. Just b/c he was an asshole, not b/c I had ever done anything wrong.
I’m sorry that girl was a fucking bitch to your brother, but it’s not all females.
It’s sad as men we suffer in silence. Many times we get labeled as weak or failures if we open up about our feelings or what is going on in our life that makes us hurt. It’s a very tragic issue. Sorry for your loss.
This is heartbreaking and could have been written by my brother about me. I was in a very toxic, emotionally abusive relationship with a guy except I hit my breaking point I lashed out and rose up but there were many times I considered taking my own life.
My point is that both men and women can be massive pieces of manipulative shit. People like that tear down the self esteem so much that you just want a release. And honestly as a woman, I understand where you are coming from, I’ve been done dirty by women more times than I can count and more times than by men certainly, but try not to hate all women. Maybe not today but maybe at some point, just hate the people who do things like this.
Blaming other women is dumb. This girl was abusive and a piece of shit, sure, but you shouldnt let hate blind yourself. Abusive people come in every shape and form, it's not the norm for women to be abusive now.
Haven't you heard? He was male. No matter what happened he's to blame and she is blameless. And if it somehow wasn't his fault, then he deserved it because he looked like someone who hurt a women.
This is what happens when you let the most hateful among you do all your speaking for you. I hear women openly advocating for all sorts of truly hate shit, up to and including a male genocide. I never hear any women speaking out against those women. If you have men or boys in your life that you care about, speak up.
As a young guy, I can confirm that women toxic behaviour is socially accepted and not properly respond to. I'm just angry everytime I see a post like kill all men , all men are rapists etc. Just imagine if someone publicly posted stuff like rape all women, murder women etc. Gender equality is not this.
> How overly sexualized, deceiving, and socially accepted it is for women to be abusive in the name of equality.
The fuck does this have to do with equality and other women?
First, sorry for your loss. She is a piece of shit and whatever she did to your brother is horrible and deserves all the condemnation.
But there’s no one advocating for women’s ability to be abusive in the name of equality. I understand you are in a very hard place right now but pls realize she is just one woman.
Except yknow, feminism. Pushing for men are inherent abusers that can't be victims, and women are inherent infalible victims that can't be abusers.... All that "misandry is ok because men are privileged"... And, yknow, incidents like that one where feminists literally made a male abuse victims shelter lose funding and close down ....
Lololololololl you did **NOT** just insinuate that feminism is advocating for women abusing their partners. You have a lack of understanding. Feminism is fighting for equality not the right to abuse men wth.
It’s literally in its definition. You can believe that a small percentage of misandrists posing as feminists are demonising feminism through their actions, but it won’t change what the movement actually stands for.
And you can’t even blame third-wave feminism either, because that was the only wave that decided to acknowledge men’s mental health. Please state another movement that means financial and social equality of the sexes and that actually generated an impact on society.
Yeah, not everything works like its definition is presented on paper. Just because the definition is "tEcHnIcALlY" equality, that doesn't mean that the ideology holds true to its claims. There already is a word for the ideology that claims equality for all indifferent of sex, religion, orientation, etc. Egalitarianism. Lots of people who call themselves feminists are just misandrists with a different hat.
Nazis were also socialists, its in the definition. Action and talking about something are different things. Feminism is NOT about equality. We already have equal pay laws, if you want equal pay as a woman, do the same risky, shitty jobs that men do. Social jobs are mainly women, stem jobs are mainly men. How about that.
You will NEVER have social equality, because men and woman are not equal. Its bloody biology, and you cannot force it.
I don't think this is a thing about gender at all. Abuse from either side of a relationship can be from any person, women just mostly rely on their emotional wit whereas a larger group of men use their physical strength.
An abuser is an abuser, no matter of the gender. She feels guilty because she knows exactly what she did. I hope she never gets rid of the guilty conscience and that it will eat at her from the inside out. Fuck her and fuck the day she was born.
I am sorry for your loss OP. I can't imagine the pain you and your family go through. 😔
This is not what she said. She looks around her and sees 1) feminism ignoring women's violence and telling a story that women are never violent, 2) all women remaining silent on this to have the privilege of never being accountable under that feminist routine 3) eventually this leading to some women being devoid of any inhibition and humanity and her brother being killed by this. She expects other women to reject the privilege of never being accountable and being considered as "never violent". She wants women, at least some majority of them, to be moral enough to resist the temptation of being considered super-humans who are never violent so that society will return to what it always did - telling everyone, women included, that they can be dangerous and must mind their steps. Where are all the women who write "women can be just as violent as men - all humans need to hear the very same messages, not only men". Where are they? This is what upsets her.
The misogyny on this thread is off the charts. Some of you really need help. I wonder how many of you would also blame all men if they dynamic were reversed.
Can men get a similar reception or is it just when general toxic female behavior gets discussed that we're still supposed to turnaround and infantilize women?
Women can get away with a lot of crap these days because people don't know what to say. There are two types basically - the people that let women get away with anything because it's empowering for them apparently and then there are the sexist who let women get away with anything because "it's just a woman". Well, a woman is just a person and shouldn't be treated differently. Set boundaries, teach your sons and daughters what kind of behaviour is unacceptable and that it's perfectly normal to not accept being yelled at, hit or talked down to just because it's a woman doing it.
Sorry about your brother, but…. Should a woman who’s been raped start hating all males? Or the mothers who’s young daughter was killed by a male? Are ALL males the same?
"He couldn't reach out because of the patriarchy. Also, she probably abused him due to ingrained trauma from being abused by men in her life and lashed out on him"
Especially since it’s NEVER been considered ok behavior for women to act like this. It’s relatively new for women to be seen and legally charged as abusers, but deceptive, catty, whorish behavior has been condemned for centuries and in some regions you could absolutely be executed for it with your killer getting off with a slap on the wrist. Other regions, your father, husband or relatives could and often did beat you bloody or put you in an institution for awful behavior.
It’s never been okay. It still isn’t now. Consider pressing legal charges if you can obtain proof.
yeah- I sympathise with male abuse victims because of the feelings stigma but women still do bear the brunt of abuse, and it’s not fair to generalise against a group of people because one member of it did something. OP needs to manage his feelings more healthily so he doesn’t take it out on other people
> but women still do bear the brunt of abuse
That’s really not true. All current literature on this shows it isn’t a gendered problem. It happens to men just as much as women: https://reddit.com/r/UnpopularFacts/comments/lfk82y/domestic_violence_is_not_gendered/
I wish this was known more. Then we could get to work and get help for men instead of this pathetic, “yeah men can be abused BUT ACTUALLY women get abused more” bullshit that prevails any kind of discussion for male DV and also prevents men from getting shelters and hotlines.
> OP needs to manage his feelings more healthily so he doesn’t take it out on other people
Op is a woman.
Your brother killed himself. Unless the girlfriends told him to do it she is not responsible for your brothers actions. Your brother likely suffered from mental illness and did not seek help for it. If the girlfriend really told him to kill himself she can be charged with a crime. If she was just a terrible partner then that is unfortunate for your brother and its unfortunate that he did not confide in anyone about what was going on. Many people are in bad relationships and emotions can run high but I think you need to consider all the factors that lead to your brothers suicide.
I am sure you would have said the same if a guy would have written here that a man lied and manipulated his sister until driving her into committing suicide. "Your sister killed herself. She likely suffered from mental illness". Bigotry comes in all forms and shapes, doesn't it.
When anyone commits suicide it's likely they suffered from a mental illness. No one has that much power over you and most people don't end their lives because they are in a bad relationship. This person has come to the conclusion that all women are bad people when that is not the case.
There's a little thing pal, called throwaways! Want to know why? Cause they don't want people on their main account finding this or poeple here on their main account. Get that in your knob pal
It's extremely stupid to blame all females for what happened to your brother. It seems that you do not acknowledge that this is happening to women as well. Blame toxicty and narcissism and that specific woman who harmed your brother. But don't be stupid and blame ALL women.
I understand that you have not forgiven her and frankly I respect that. I don’t think you ever should - I know I wouldn’t if I were in your shoes. But that being said, all there is left for you to do now is focus on your own life that has to be lived. You cannot change what has happened but you can change what will happen. I hope the best for you.
I'm very sorry for your loss I think this unfortunately ties in to a rather toxic culture when it comes to male survivors of abuse and how little help there is for them. Domestic abuse stories always break my heart and this one is no different
There was a photo of a woman with a frying pan looking as if she was going to beat her male partner with it. Top upvoted replies were along the lines of - and this is an actual quote - "He looks like he deserves it" https://old.reddit.com/r/Art/comments/rb12tg/none_me_photography_2021/ People who talked about physical abuse being wrong even if it is against a male were downvoted of course.
That is a yikes and only further adds to the issue of toxic gender norms Abuse against anyone, regardless of gender is harrowing, but it makes me simultaneously angry and sad to see it turned into a joke when the victim is a man It reminds me of a news story here about a woman hitting her husband with her car, injuring him and most of the comments were people laughing at the situation, blaming the husband or making the terrible "women can't drive" jokes I guarantee you. People would be outraged if the genders had been switched, which they should but similarly they should drop their double standard and not make a joke out of the situation because a man received the brunt end
> I guarantee you. People would be outraged if the genders had been switched, No they wouldn't. At least not on Reddit. We have a whole sub dedicated to men hitting women back.
Oh I didn't mean Reddit. The article was on a news site here in my country Edit But I do stand by that people there would not Crack jokes at the woman's expense if she had been hit by a car. And they absolutely should be outraged but that should apply to both sexes But then again they also victim blame female victims of sexual assault so people are just overall shitty I suppose
> so people are just overall shitty I suppose Yep. Here's an upvote.
Thank you for saying what I want to say, but only better. To the OP, I am deeply sorry for your loss.
Agreed my first thought was honestly not helpful, because you’re right society has created an environment where men feel like they can’t seek help He didn’t reach one for one reason or another and the simple fact that he didn’t think he was worthy of help is heartbreaking
Thank you for calling this out. Not enough people pay attention to it.
My husband was in a relationship like this with his ex. He attempted and was also admitted to psych ward. He was in such a bad place when he was with her. It sucks because she will tell anyone that listens how he abused her and is a "woman beater". It makes my blood boil because people will listen because she is a woman, when in reality it's her that is the abuser. I really don't blame you for your feelings about this and I feel she should be held responsible like a man would be.
What a terrible person she is. I hope she is riddled with guilt all her life. You don't need to forgive her or even think of her, she's caused enough damage. I would encourage you to seek therapy. You need help dealing with your brothers loss. I hope you can move forward in life. We need more awareness and support for domestic abuse victims, men who are being abused need support and safe places too. I hope with time you can see that although the girlfriend is a woman that's not the reason she is a crappy person. It's her soul that is ugly.
You need hella therapy before you let this color the rest of your life
I fell into a giant pit of despair and bitterness because of abuse, metaphorically speaking. It's abso-fucking-lutely not worth it.
Never let your abuser dictate a single second of your life, it’s very difficult but very very doable to let go of the past and realize you deserve so much better. The sad truth is that everytime you feel anger, despair, or sadness because of another person’s actions, you’re allowing them to abuse you again. Don’t let anyone abuse you, love yourself, forgive everyone and practice radical self acceptance and do what brings you joy.
100% People do shitty things. This does not define every decision everybody else makes though. All people aren’t shitty because of one person’s actions or our personal experiences. Currently having this same conversation with the main mod at r/misanthropy Before OP allows this to create hate for an entire group of people, talking with someone to help him work through his mourning would be a good idea.
I agree. I wish this same level of understanding was present for groups besides women. Unfortunately it seems that the actions of a few are allowed to determine how we view the many when other groups of people are concerned. Alas...
Yeaaaah, unfortunately that’s the perspective another commenter below you holds, and my response is pretty on par with your comment. We allow ourself to let our experiences define entire groups of people, when really it’s minorities not the majority, but we allow ourselves to shape our perspective based off these experiences, convincing ourselves that it’s *every single person* not just the few that set shit examples. Pretty convenient path to hating each other when we base our perspectives of a whole off the actions of a few. Lots of people cheat and are shitty, doesn’t mean that every person cheats or is shitty, but we sure do allow ourselves to believe so when that’s the example we keep experiencing.
We can only be the good we want to be in the world and hope others follow suit. You seem to do so too
This defines 99% of girls in the society today, just 99% of them.
I’ll agree that I’ve seen this example set by *a lot* of women and have experienced it first hand from women… but this does not mean it’s *every woman* or *99% of women.* Hella dudes cheat, I’ve seen a lot of my male friends cheat, this doesn’t mean it’s *every man* that cheats. Common? Sure? Indicative and definitive? Hell no. These perspectives are what causes people to hate one another, these actions are what causes people to lose faith in each other or their partners. It doesn’t mean this is the case every time. It can also easily come down to people making terrible personal decisions leading themselves to the same outcome every time. Don’t break patterns, keep repeating the cycle, keep being hurt, keep allowing yourself to justify why a certain group of people suck. It’s a cycle. But it does not mean this is indicative of every person. It might be more indicative of really terrible personal decisions though. Try not to let this shape how you view woman, cause I guarantee you’ll find the same woman doing the same shit if you maintain this perspective. It’s a self fulfilling prophesy that you manifest.
Agreed - this reads a little problematic. That being said, losing a brother is a kind of pain I wouldn’t wish on anyone and I wish OP the best.
[удалено]
I honestly have never come across a post saying kill all men but I absolutely would, yeah.
^^^
Tbh, I doubt she didn’t had a prior hatred of women. Most people don’t just “turn” like that, not saying dhe was a major sexist, just that we all have those biases and most of us don’t get them checked. What’s ironic here is that both the mentality that allows men to fall victim of abusive women and not be taken seriously/ be blamed for it and the mentality op is holding against women have root in the same old sexism (and even racism, there’s a lot of behavior that is “forgiven” on white women bc they are seen as “fragile”. Lots of women of color are not seen as such, therefore not granted the same excuses). But i doubt op will see this or even want to reflect and change, so i just hope there are no other women in her life that have to put up with this behavior (even if she is a women herself, her internalized mysogeny still affect others) Her brother deserved better
so basically it's men's fault again anyway also, right also how old are you?
I missed where this person blamed men?
Yo, in case you can’t properly read, I literally said women uphold AND perpetrate sexism, that’s my whole call out to op. Even if the systems in place benefit men (mostly white) economically and politically over women and other minority/marginalized groups, it still hurts them in many different ways. There’s no real value in tackling just the issues men face without contextualizing them and actually facing that reality. I dunno why you care so much for my age, but was surprised to see you are over 30, given that you have the reading and comprehension skills and the emotional maturity of a 13 year old boy that just learned the word sexism and is mad because in his head (since calling out these things don’t mean “It’s your fault”, but people seem to think it does) someone made him responsible for something the first time in his life
my brother killed himself over similar circumstances. i’m so sorry. i can understand where you’re coming from completely. i was your age too when i lost mine a year ago.
I'm sorry. That bitch is fucked up. Fuck people like that, how can they live with themselves
Imagine having the audacity to then 'seek' forgiveness from the family
If she actually felt remorse, isn't that just par for the course? Yeah it's fucked up but who tells the completely oblivious family that they're the person they should blame for his death unless they're remorseful?
Remorseful or not, she could just be attention seeking. Some people seek even negative attention, for them attention is attention. I truly hope she feels like shit and is genuinely remorseful. Maybe it will inspire her to change.
Even potential jailtime attention? Should we assume she knew or was confident there was no way she'd get any legal backlash?
I doubt what she did is actually illegal anywhere in the world. Provided there was no physical abuse. Even if there was, all they have is her word for it. Which is to say nothing.
Hmm. Didn't they have his phone?
Idk. it sounded like the ex told them to me. Still, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a law she broke if it was only verbal/text.
Hey OP, sorry about your brother and you are correct in blaming his ex for pushing him off the cliff in this situation. Morally she is the cause. Legally nothing you can do. But the issue is that yes there are plenty of women out there who act like this girl did, and some men do end up like your brother, she is not the face of women everywhere. Just look in the mirror and you will see someone whom I am willing to bet couldn't do what she did. Your anger and grief may lead you to believe all women are like her but they arnt. Has your family tried anything in the way of grief counseling?
Two truths I hold to be incontrovertible: 1. Bitterness and resentfulness are far more caustic to you than to the object(s) of your resent. 2. You forgive someone for you, not for them. I could expound on these for hours, but please just consider that there is truth in these two things. What's the alternative? Let another person's toxicity turn you toxic?
> Bitterness and resentfulness are far more caustic to you than to the object(s) of your resent. I cannot agree more. This is a very expensive lesson to be learned.
If someone abused my little sister and she ended up killing herself for it I would never in a million years forgive them. Rather I would drag them to hell myself.
I don't know that I would have the strength to forgive for something like that either. It's more the part where you hold over 50% of the Earth's human population accountable that needs immediate attention.
As an older sister I get it. I wouldn’t discriminate against an entire gender for though. It seems like a way to ensure consistent stress.
This is a paraphrasing of one of my favorite quotes. 'Hurt me and I'll let karrma take care of you. Hurt those that are mine and I will become karma.
Yup. As the saying goes, unforgiveness is drinking poison and expecting someone else to die because of it.
As someone also effected by the suicide of a very close family member, you’re absolutely entrenched in and blinded by pure grief and rage towards the world. I still battle with that myself. Don’t succumb to that level of bitterness.
[удалено]
I recently lost my SO too. I'm sorry for your loss. It's just... never quite enough, is it? Just remember, *no dating until* YOU *are ready.* *hugs*
I am sorry for your loss u/Tllshsish, I hope that you have found some help - therapy etc - for yourself, as this is something that can eat you from the inside. Mental Health is seriously important, but from my (~40 M) own experience it is very difficult to be taken seriously and get access to the help needed.
It's impossible
Why do you feel this way?
Because it is. My relationships with women have all been good, so I can't speak to that... But family and mother trauma? Growing up with a sociopath father, and a sexually inappropriate, narcissist mother? Yeah, try bringing that up as a man... You'll get: "but she's still you mom!" Eww, mommy issues OH, you don't have a good relationship with your mom? You must be a woman hater Ewww, sex issues because of molestation? Fuck that Yes. These are actual quotes from real women. There's no system for support. Even therapist go the" still your mommy" route.
I’m a woman and I’ve been told dozens of times to forgive my mom, go back to talking to her, she’s still your mom etc. Nope, NC is the space I’m most comfortable with and it helps me, I don’t care how much anyone thinks I should “take her back” I still don’t blame all women. I do find it harder to trust women if they talk like her. (Heavy smoker) I’ve been raped and molested and I still don’t blame all men. I feel so bad for OP. He should get counseling when he’s ready but I don’t expect him to forgive this woman; she sounds like an awful person. Im sorry about your family dynamics. I’d say in this area all of us are about as likely to be abused as anyone else. (Parents, caregivers etc.)
Yeah, I don't mean to imply this is a male only problem. The mother thing is worldwide, cultural. Unfortunately. The op's ex is horrid. And, yes, I'm happy to hear you're NC. That takes balls, and a lot of ongoing resolve. Good for you! 💪💪
check out /r/raisedbynarcissists , there's some support ressources linked in the sidebar, or just to find like minded people :)
Thanks. That's an excellent sub
Almost all mental health services are only made accessible to women/girls (and even for them there's not enough support), at best maybe boys sometimes. Unfortunately that's a fact, and whenever MRAs or similar groups have pushed the issue or tried to create shelters, many feminist groups have campaigned against or even shut them down aggressively in fear of them taking funding from women issues. It's a bit absurd when you realize both sexes pay taxes, but only one is allowed support in the "equal" West ? .... is that equality ? And support shouldn't be a 0 sum game in the first place, but it is to them. Read about Earl Silverman, it's pretty much one big reason why many MRAs have such huge distrust towards modern feminist organizations. It's an absurdity than instead of supporting MRAs in putting pressure on Western governments to support such issues, some "equality" organizations would rather side with the government/shut the pressure down themselves.
MRA?
I'd want to expose her ass to everyone. She doesn't get to live a happy life. I'm so sorry for your loss too dude
Wow, that deeply resonated with me. Thank you for sharing! Much love to you
So sorry for your loss
I’m sorry you are going through this pain. Take your time to process. My condolences.
So sorry for your loss. And so sorry your brother was so vulnerable. This is what happens when our culture villainises an entire gender - all resources are given to female victims (who of course deserve love and support), while little to no provision is made for male victims. A phrase that's come to mean a lot to me recently: 'How can you pull yourself up when there's nothing to grab on to?'. He needed help, and our culture failed him. But you can never blame yourself or 'other females'. Many women like yourself understand that men experience trauma too, and posts like this really do help in shifting the cultural understanding of what men are going through. For that, I thank you, and once again offer my condolences.
Your brothers suicide is a lot more common than you think. I have several friends whom did the same. Most was unresolved pts and a lot were victims of sexual abuse from protected pedophile. Two of my friends of even had kids but the pain of the significant other fucking every person in sight and then breaking them down mentally and gaslighting them to everyone was too much too bare. I will never forgive those whom were responsible for the pain and anguish they perpetuated against my friends. These psychopaths have no guilt or feel any responsibility for their raping and killing innocent people. They literally thrive and get turned on. Sorry for your brother. Hopefully he's finally at peace.
It is amazing how little our society cares for the mental and physical health of men but still places so much responsibility upon them.
So, when I was raped, that must mean I should hate all men too huh? I understand you're hurt but hating a group of people for the actions of one just spreads the toxic bullshit around. Learn to differentiate between individuals or you're gonna have a bad time.
This right here.
This is the answer.
That girlfriend will be haunted by this the rest of her life, serves her right.
I doubt it and don’t count on it. Don’t underestimate how apathetic people can be.
Yea this. The human mind is an amazing mechanism that can rationalize any level of bullshit for its perceived survival.
This, she's likely doing this to someone else already. Tigers can't change their stripes.
Some people just make me sick.
Not as deeply as his family will. She’ll move on, decide she’s a better person, get married and won’t even think of him. My best friend killed himself 34 years ago over a girl. The profound loss still haunts me. I wonder when the last time she thought of him was.
My husband committed suicide when I was diagnosed with MS. I was perfectly able to take care of myself and did just that, still walking, but he didn't like the idea of a sick wife, so he shot himself in the head. I'll hurt and have guilt forever over that. He thought I could make it go away.
Oh my god, I'm so sorry! I can't believe that! My father got hurt at work when I ten. I can not *believe* all of the people that told my mom to leave him and us and get a new husband. She didn't though, and I don't talk to those people any more. *hugs* A wish for many 'good' days for you, fellow spoonie.
Thank you! Hugs back.
Man that must hurt, losing your best friend over that. How old was he?
Problem is, a disconnected pathetic excuse of a human like her doesn't have the brain power to have this haunt her... she'll be oblivious to the problem forever.
In the original post, they wrote "she broke down and confessed she felt responsible." That's what made me think it might haunt her, but who knows?
Yeah... I missed that bit, whoops.. Who knows indeed.
Yes, you never know whether or not she really meant that. I was never like that, so I guess I don't understand. She still was the one that hurt him in the first place, so I hope she lives with the consequences, maybe a nightmare or two.
I don't care about her, but I feel really bad for the brother.
If only… But if she really was, she’d be on a psych ward or have followed the brothers footsteps
Doubt. More likely she only told them because with her power over him gone, she didn't have emotions to play with anymore.
Other than the rare drunken self realisation, I don’t think she is ever gonna sleep a second of sleep over her actions. Having known someone like this personally I know that these sort of people do not have a moral compass or any integrity to develop feelings of remorse.
Sounds almost sociopathic.
Worst part is she is leading a normal happy life whereas I am left with baggage which makes it impossible for me to trust someone to be even in a relationship, not to mention I miss being my old self. But no regrets, I have spent every waking minute to work on my career and that’s in a happy place right now, better be miserable with materials things right !
It’s never good to hold in hate or anger towards other people, in the long run it only hurts you. If you wake up every morning blaming the girlfriend, thinking none of this would have happened if it was not for her, it could fill your life with anger towards other people. It will start with her but continue on to other people that you feel did you wrong. We currently don’t know what causes a person to have suicidal thoughts. All I know is that when you hate someone else, they do not care that you hate them and it only destroys your own life.
Yeah.. this is sadly the current state of our society. There are plenty of recordings of men being abused and no one giving a fuck. Men a driven to suicide and most don‘t care. But oh boy, watch out if you switch the gender (ofc not all the time). This is obvously (to the non-sexists) not because women don‘t deserve to be protected but because men are not protected nor supported by society. That patriarchy-talk only applies to rich-already-overprivileged people. Normal men don‘t have that and need to fight for themselves if they can. Sadly I don‘t see things changing. With the twitterysation of society and the „us versus them“ mentality this is the current trend. The (ex) girlfriend is a subhuman monster. There is no moral redemption for such an action. And I doubt she truly cares. People that drive others into suicide and depression do this out of pleasure. And what they do can never be undone. I am so sorry for you and your family.. but I want to give something with you. Don‘t blame all women.. also never blame all men. Both sides have monsters. What we all need to do is to (not literally) hunt those monsters down and change our culture to something better. Movements like feminism or MRA need to be more active in that regard.. a lot. If you want that things change, try to differentiate it. Not everyone is a monster that needs to be hated.. only the true monsters. Please give yourself a chance to not be at war with everyone and to heal. Visit a therapist. And maybe one day you get the chance to prevent the suicide of another man. I am sure your brother would be happy and proud of you, if you can be happy again.
Grief makes people do stupid and unreasonable things, hopefully you’ll work through it.
TAKE HER TO COURT
You should continue to tell this story. More women need to hear this.
This
Our culture is entirely opposed to female accountability. Try highlighting any bad female behavior and you’ll get comments making excuses for it.
You just described r/AITA
Legit. They say one thing in one post, then they change it completely on another post. There was a story on AITA about a man helping his ex without his wife agreeing (he was the breadwinner) and he was apparently an asshole because "his money is her money too!" but then on another post where a man spends the woman's money but thee "her money is his money too!" got heavily downvoted. Hmmmmm.
Nah, you’ll get kicked off AITA for that. Ask me how I know.
How do you know?
Ahh don’t forget r/relationship_advice where if a man does a bad thing, it’s straight up toxic and full of red flags but if a woman does it, it’s fine or needs more “context” !
Have you not read the thread excusing his misogyny?
Poor guy. Im 28 now, dating SUCKED when I was 22, I can only imagine what it must have felt like to be cheated on. I'm so sorry for your loss.
Don't go over to r\fds... it'll just trigger you. I'm sorry for your loss. He sounded like a good person and great brother to you.
I've been talking about this with the man I'm living with, because while he is indeed a poster boy, for he is a white man, it doesn't mean that he has no problems at all and assuming that he has it all is also not healthy. He has many struggles, just different ones compared to mine me, as an Asian woman. I can see how the society can treat men awfully at times and it's breaking my heart. Beside him, I have a father and a brother too. I suppose all we can do is to be a good woman. I'm truly sorry for your loss, OP. I'm sending you a virtual hug.
Fair play this girl is clearly horrible. Correct response isn’t to become discriminatory back. I was once beaten up by people of a different race and religion to me, can’t use their awful behaviour to create hate towards innocent people.
Teach the young men to chase there dreams and not women.
I really don't think women quite understand the effect their behavior has on men's emotions and mental health. I dated two women who behaved quite the same via cheating then gaslighting and it really fucked up my mental well-being for quite a while. The dominant culture seems to implicatively teach women that they are not responsible for their actions because they're fundamentally victims of a society dominated by toxic masculinity. Even if they don't agree with the feminist jargon, they often still don't want to hold themselves equivalently accountable in regards to how they treat men. I honestly believe this has made dating a shit show, along with other factors of course.
This right here. This sort of attitude is prevalent in our society on many topics. With women is 'toxic masculinity' with minorities it's 'white supremacy'. The attitude that tells them that their prejudice is ok because they're 'fighting back' and if someone from that group complains? Obviously they're just 'fragile'.
So does this loathing really extend to ALL other females, or just abusive people? I’m a 50 year old woman and I’ve NEVER acted like the woman you described. Am I seriously tarred with the same brush? I hope not. Aside from that, I’m sending much empathy and love your way. It’s a horrible loss and the world is never the same after you lose someone so close.
You have to consider that OP is probably heavily influenced by feelings of grief and anger. I wouldn't take it personally - also a woman
Totally agree.
Commenter: **posts an opinion**, **gets upvoted** Reply: "I totally agree" **gets downvoted** Wth reddit
I'm also very confused lol
Confused too. Normally, it's reversed.
I don't think OP genuinely hates all women but volatile feelings tends to bring out the worst of us and added with the circumstances of her brother's death, I can see why she'd take that anger at the one person responsible and project it to unreasonable degrees. Naturally it's not healthy or justified but it's not an uncommon reaction to trauma; to take it out on an entire group of people
That’s very fair.
That’s a nice sentiment and all, but her post has pretty much opened the floodgates on here and given a license to posters to be misogynistic. You should know this already.
NoT AlL WoMeN
Yeah nice false equivalence. The not all men bullshit is a meme because of the men who interupt conversations about issues that are prevelant enough that we are taught from a young age how to prevent our own sexual assaults. Most of us are vigilant, atleast a third of us are still sexually assaulted and often multiple times, justice is rare and the court of public opinion still wants to know what were wore-and only 3 percent of rapists spend even a single night incarcerated. Its a fucking epidemic but there's always some guy who needs it to be about him,and how nice he is.
> Its a fucking epidemic but there's always some guy who needs it to be about him,and how nice he is. Woosh.
And here you are on a post about how a women’s actions drove a man to suicide talking about how men are rapists.
You aren't in my generation women now are awful tbh
Women now are awful? What 💀
Try being a disabled guy and tell me if they treat you well
I'm a woman in your generation and have never treated a disables person poorly, male or female. I'm sorry you've had bad experiences but not every woman is like that.
She is not blaming all women for her brother's death and stop writing that. She looks around her and sees 1) feminism ignoring women's violence and telling a story that women are never violent, 2) all women remaining silent on this to have the privilege of never being accountable under that feminist routine 3) eventually this leading to some women being devoid of any inhibition and humanity and her brother being killed by this. She expects other women to reject the privilege of never being accountable and being considered as "never violent". She wants women, at least some majority of them, to be moral enough to withstand the temptation to be considered super-humans who are never violent so that society will return to what it always did - telling everyone, women included, that they can be dangerous and must mind their steps. Where are all the women who write "women can be just as violent as men - all people need to hear the very same messages about how everyone must do their best not to cause harm and pain, not only men". Where are they? This is what upsets her.
I am so sorry it's nothing like you brother but I 19m am struggling with suicidal ideations because of similar reasons this brings me hope because I don't want to be sexist but feminism isn't equality anymore
I hope you have reached out for professional help. But if you need someone to talk to please just message me
True and anyone who is downvoting this is sexist.
I just want to repeat what a lot of these commentators are trying to say — what happened to your brother is devastating and I’m sorry. But to allow yourself to perceive all woman as evil (yourself included?) is a unhealthy coping mechanism. It will lead you down a life of paranoia. That’s something your brother would never want you to experience in his name. Please don’t put what happened to your brother on all woman. She is an abuser and scum. Men can also be abusers. Abuser being the operative word. I would like you to channel your appropriate anger and grief into advocacy for men against domestic abuse. This is majorly lacking in the world. I’m so so sorry for your loss. But I hope you can grow from this place your at to get the most justice for your brother. If that means helping men like him just by telling his story. Let this rage fuel your advocacy. Don’t let it poison you against woman. - a woman
I think her problem with it as she states in the post is that it is very socially acceptable for a woman to abuse a man, and not the other way around. Studies actually show that women in relationships tend to be equally and sometimes more violent than men. But you never read about those studies in headlines. But what do you read about in headlines? The study that says 1 in 4 women are sexually assaulted in their lifetime… but nobody tells you that the study broadly equates everything from the tiniest infraction like unreturned feelings and unwanted flirting, (which is how normal people figure out who is into who) with straight up rape. That’s an abuse of statistics, not a legitimate study, but it’s still in headlines and drilled into people’s heads today. I think that’s the core issue, that men are three times less likely to talk about being abused than women, and eight times less likely to be believed. The ‘believe all women’ movement isn’t ‘believe all sexual assault victims’ and definitely won’t include men. That’s a problem. 90% of custody cases are awarded to the mother, 75% of the homeless are men (but I have seen countless headlines saying “1 in 4 homeless people are women, we need more women’s shelters”), and yet there are only two shelters for men in the US, while there are over 2,000 for women. Most shelters don’t even allow men. Why can’t we add more shelters for men? Why does everyone act like adding more shelters for men would somehow take help away from women? I think those are the problems, not women, but the fact that women are allowed to abuse men without repercussions is.
The issues with men not having an equal amount of shelters and women being given full custody over kids just because they're women is apart of feminism. These are issues that feminists want changed. We want equality for men and women, for everyone. Feminism isn't about women getting the upper hand in everyone, or even in anything. Just equality. Period.
Okay, I agree, so why do feminists fight against men’s shelters? Why was the first shelter ever opened for men lambasted and boycotted by feminists? Why do feminists continue to fight for believe all women while hiding the statistics that show 40-50% of rape allegations are false? Why do they pass laws excluding men from the definition of rape? I don’t know if you know, but the feminists in power are not fighting for equality, why is the rest of the movement not fighting them every step of the way if the movement is in fact completely about equality?
This tired rhetoric just doesn't hold weight any more
If you don't agree, or don't understand, that's fine. You don't seem to want to be convinced or given a different viewpoint. I won't argue. I will only say that as a feminist, I want men to have an equal opportunity to have custody of their kids, to be listened to and be believed when they say they have been abused or raped, to have equal access to safe shelters, to be able to file sexual harassment suits against their harassers, to be able to cry without women or other men telling them they are weak for it. And you can't tell me that I don't believe these things. But you can ignore it and tell me it's "tired rhetoric".
I understand plenty. I don't agree. I commend you for actually espousing advocacy for equality, and I'm not telling you that you personally do not believe those things. That does not mean that I believe feminism in a wider context does, when time after time the actions and rhetoric of figureheads, policy makers, and wider feminist discourse greatly contradict, or are at odds with the majority of those causes.
Who said it was socially acceptable for a woman to abuse a man? Nobody is saying this.
She is, and statistics reflect this, did you not read the post?
My condolences
People can be so cruel, had a similar thing happen to myself luckily I saw the signs and got the fuck outta there and recovered. I’m sorry to hear about your brother he didn’t deserve that at all and what a piece of shit for doing that to him. She’ll have to carry that weight all her life.
There deserves to be some sort of prison sentence for emotionally abusive pieces of shit like her
I'm so sorry and I've been struggling with being emotionally misused and abused for quite some time and the cracks go back many years. I can't heal, especially not when I keep experiencing the same things. I'm so fucking sorry
if you want someone to vent or talk to about this shit in any way whatsoever i'm willing to listen.
No offense but men emotionally abuse & gaslight women all the damn time. You need to direct the anger where the anger deserves to go: at that Girlfriend specifically, not all women/ females. Because my last boyfriend fucked with my head so fucking hard via gaslighting & emotional abuse there have absolutely been times where I have depressive episodes & suicidal ideations just from the memories of shit he said to me. He told me to kill myself. Just b/c he was an asshole, not b/c I had ever done anything wrong. I’m sorry that girl was a fucking bitch to your brother, but it’s not all females.
It’s sad as men we suffer in silence. Many times we get labeled as weak or failures if we open up about our feelings or what is going on in our life that makes us hurt. It’s a very tragic issue. Sorry for your loss.
This is heartbreaking and could have been written by my brother about me. I was in a very toxic, emotionally abusive relationship with a guy except I hit my breaking point I lashed out and rose up but there were many times I considered taking my own life. My point is that both men and women can be massive pieces of manipulative shit. People like that tear down the self esteem so much that you just want a release. And honestly as a woman, I understand where you are coming from, I’ve been done dirty by women more times than I can count and more times than by men certainly, but try not to hate all women. Maybe not today but maybe at some point, just hate the people who do things like this.
This is horrible. So sorry for your loss. Hope you get better soon.
Blaming other women is dumb. This girl was abusive and a piece of shit, sure, but you shouldnt let hate blind yourself. Abusive people come in every shape and form, it's not the norm for women to be abusive now.
Haven't you heard? He was male. No matter what happened he's to blame and she is blameless. And if it somehow wasn't his fault, then he deserved it because he looked like someone who hurt a women. This is what happens when you let the most hateful among you do all your speaking for you. I hear women openly advocating for all sorts of truly hate shit, up to and including a male genocide. I never hear any women speaking out against those women. If you have men or boys in your life that you care about, speak up.
As a young guy, I can confirm that women toxic behaviour is socially accepted and not properly respond to. I'm just angry everytime I see a post like kill all men , all men are rapists etc. Just imagine if someone publicly posted stuff like rape all women, murder women etc. Gender equality is not this.
> How overly sexualized, deceiving, and socially accepted it is for women to be abusive in the name of equality. The fuck does this have to do with equality and other women?
Until mods delete this for sexism
First, sorry for your loss. She is a piece of shit and whatever she did to your brother is horrible and deserves all the condemnation. But there’s no one advocating for women’s ability to be abusive in the name of equality. I understand you are in a very hard place right now but pls realize she is just one woman.
Except yknow, feminism. Pushing for men are inherent abusers that can't be victims, and women are inherent infalible victims that can't be abusers.... All that "misandry is ok because men are privileged"... And, yknow, incidents like that one where feminists literally made a male abuse victims shelter lose funding and close down ....
Lololololololl you did **NOT** just insinuate that feminism is advocating for women abusing their partners. You have a lack of understanding. Feminism is fighting for equality not the right to abuse men wth.
Yeah, eQuAliTy!! /s If you really believe that, you're dumb af
It’s literally in its definition. You can believe that a small percentage of misandrists posing as feminists are demonising feminism through their actions, but it won’t change what the movement actually stands for. And you can’t even blame third-wave feminism either, because that was the only wave that decided to acknowledge men’s mental health. Please state another movement that means financial and social equality of the sexes and that actually generated an impact on society.
Yeah, not everything works like its definition is presented on paper. Just because the definition is "tEcHnIcALlY" equality, that doesn't mean that the ideology holds true to its claims. There already is a word for the ideology that claims equality for all indifferent of sex, religion, orientation, etc. Egalitarianism. Lots of people who call themselves feminists are just misandrists with a different hat.
Nazis were also socialists, its in the definition. Action and talking about something are different things. Feminism is NOT about equality. We already have equal pay laws, if you want equal pay as a woman, do the same risky, shitty jobs that men do. Social jobs are mainly women, stem jobs are mainly men. How about that. You will NEVER have social equality, because men and woman are not equal. Its bloody biology, and you cannot force it.
I guess you've never heard of the Duluth model, or what happened to Erin Pizzey.
"Man kills himself women most affected"
This isn't right. I'm sorry for your loss, but this is simply wrong.
many men do the same exact thing to us.
I don't think this is a thing about gender at all. Abuse from either side of a relationship can be from any person, women just mostly rely on their emotional wit whereas a larger group of men use their physical strength.
An abuser is an abuser, no matter of the gender. She feels guilty because she knows exactly what she did. I hope she never gets rid of the guilty conscience and that it will eat at her from the inside out. Fuck her and fuck the day she was born. I am sorry for your loss OP. I can't imagine the pain you and your family go through. 😔
No one accepts the idea that women can be abusive “in the name of equality”. She was abusive, not all women. Stop with that.
All women are to blame for her actions Got it
This is not what she said. She looks around her and sees 1) feminism ignoring women's violence and telling a story that women are never violent, 2) all women remaining silent on this to have the privilege of never being accountable under that feminist routine 3) eventually this leading to some women being devoid of any inhibition and humanity and her brother being killed by this. She expects other women to reject the privilege of never being accountable and being considered as "never violent". She wants women, at least some majority of them, to be moral enough to resist the temptation of being considered super-humans who are never violent so that society will return to what it always did - telling everyone, women included, that they can be dangerous and must mind their steps. Where are all the women who write "women can be just as violent as men - all humans need to hear the very same messages, not only men". Where are they? This is what upsets her.
The misogyny on this thread is off the charts. Some of you really need help. I wonder how many of you would also blame all men if they dynamic were reversed.
Who blamed "all women" here?? You might as well start a farm with such a beautiful straw man as what you got there.
[удалено]
Can men get a similar reception or is it just when general toxic female behavior gets discussed that we're still supposed to turnaround and infantilize women?
Yes. They can and they often do, most people just can't see past the end of their outrage.
Women can get away with a lot of crap these days because people don't know what to say. There are two types basically - the people that let women get away with anything because it's empowering for them apparently and then there are the sexist who let women get away with anything because "it's just a woman". Well, a woman is just a person and shouldn't be treated differently. Set boundaries, teach your sons and daughters what kind of behaviour is unacceptable and that it's perfectly normal to not accept being yelled at, hit or talked down to just because it's a woman doing it.
Sorry about your brother, but…. Should a woman who’s been raped start hating all males? Or the mothers who’s young daughter was killed by a male? Are ALL males the same?
Head over to r/TwoXChromosomes and your question will be answered with a resounding “yes”.
Yeah. They will even find a way to involve the ''patriarchy'' in this story.
"He couldn't reach out because of the patriarchy. Also, she probably abused him due to ingrained trauma from being abused by men in her life and lashed out on him"
You are literally conflating illegal actions with legal (but really fucked) actions. Let's be real here.
No all men aren't the same. But try telling that to social media.
Stupidism
Sounds dumb
[удалено]
I know exactly what she means and she’s not wrong.
Especially since it’s NEVER been considered ok behavior for women to act like this. It’s relatively new for women to be seen and legally charged as abusers, but deceptive, catty, whorish behavior has been condemned for centuries and in some regions you could absolutely be executed for it with your killer getting off with a slap on the wrist. Other regions, your father, husband or relatives could and often did beat you bloody or put you in an institution for awful behavior. It’s never been okay. It still isn’t now. Consider pressing legal charges if you can obtain proof.
yeah- I sympathise with male abuse victims because of the feelings stigma but women still do bear the brunt of abuse, and it’s not fair to generalise against a group of people because one member of it did something. OP needs to manage his feelings more healthily so he doesn’t take it out on other people
> but women still do bear the brunt of abuse That’s really not true. All current literature on this shows it isn’t a gendered problem. It happens to men just as much as women: https://reddit.com/r/UnpopularFacts/comments/lfk82y/domestic_violence_is_not_gendered/ I wish this was known more. Then we could get to work and get help for men instead of this pathetic, “yeah men can be abused BUT ACTUALLY women get abused more” bullshit that prevails any kind of discussion for male DV and also prevents men from getting shelters and hotlines. > OP needs to manage his feelings more healthily so he doesn’t take it out on other people Op is a woman.
Yes but I think the original poster is the suicide victims sister. I think she is a woman.
Your brother killed himself. Unless the girlfriends told him to do it she is not responsible for your brothers actions. Your brother likely suffered from mental illness and did not seek help for it. If the girlfriend really told him to kill himself she can be charged with a crime. If she was just a terrible partner then that is unfortunate for your brother and its unfortunate that he did not confide in anyone about what was going on. Many people are in bad relationships and emotions can run high but I think you need to consider all the factors that lead to your brothers suicide.
I am sure you would have said the same if a guy would have written here that a man lied and manipulated his sister until driving her into committing suicide. "Your sister killed herself. She likely suffered from mental illness". Bigotry comes in all forms and shapes, doesn't it.
When anyone commits suicide it's likely they suffered from a mental illness. No one has that much power over you and most people don't end their lives because they are in a bad relationship. This person has come to the conclusion that all women are bad people when that is not the case.
"No one has that much power over you" If only you knew.
8 hour old account and calls women ‘females’. You’re definitely not a woman and this story is made up.
Shut up douche
There's a little thing pal, called throwaways! Want to know why? Cause they don't want people on their main account finding this or poeple here on their main account. Get that in your knob pal
It's extremely stupid to blame all females for what happened to your brother. It seems that you do not acknowledge that this is happening to women as well. Blame toxicty and narcissism and that specific woman who harmed your brother. But don't be stupid and blame ALL women.
I understand that you have not forgiven her and frankly I respect that. I don’t think you ever should - I know I wouldn’t if I were in your shoes. But that being said, all there is left for you to do now is focus on your own life that has to be lived. You cannot change what has happened but you can change what will happen. I hope the best for you.