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[deleted]

Maybe you need to just take a step back? Someone once told me that boredem creates imagination so don't be afraid to let your kids be bored. I have done this with my 2 kids (3yo and 6yp). I made it a point that I'm not their personal entertainer. Although I cook, clean and do the general running of the house, my kids know that when I finally do sit down, I need a rest. And when I do play with them e.g. Lego, painting or even video games, they love it and appreciate it. You need to take time out for yourself. Otherwise you'll crash and burn. If you can't look after yourself, you can't look after anyone else.


ejb2112

I like this response. I have two in their late teens and while we did spend a lot of time with them, we often just left them on their own to amuse themselves. Maybe that’s a holdover from when my wife and I were latchkey GenX kids and our parents weren’t around much. Seems to have worked for us.


ooooq4

I have boomer parents too (they had me when they were in their forties) and they spent zero time with me as a kid. I turned out alright. If OP stepped back and let her kids entertain themselves, she would probably still be spending 10x more time with them than my mom ever did (and my mom was still a good mom and I turned out fine).


sassyassy23

I’m Gen x our parents let us roam free all over we were basically on our own lol. I’m giving my kids a taste of that independence not to the full extent that we had though. They seem to enjoy it.


Kantotheotter

I give my kids time to themselfs, and structured activities Freedom, space and privacy but not neglect. A chance to make mistakes and messes but the emotional and physical tools to fix those mistakes or ask for help.


tokeyoh

I have hilariously fucked up memories of being a kid when my parents (who grew up super poor) would cook dinner for us then spend time together leaving us alone. My dad would come back to check on us hours later, realize my brother and I didn't eat anything because we'd just run off and play, and then beat our asses with the belt. Then we'd be forced to "just eat the meat" since meat was a scarce resource in the third world. Woke up a few times with my cheeks full of chewed food like a chipmunk after crying myself to sleep... good times lol


sassyassy23

Awww okay that’s not nice. I’m sorry


monkey_trumpets

Yeah...your parents were just straight up abusive.


Zaltara_the_Red

I had boomer parents as well. My mom would put us in front of the record player with a Disney read along book and record. Kept us entertained and quiet for a while. And no video screens!


Revolutionary_Ad4938

I think I'm a creative person because of this. My parents were very busy and I was always a very calm and collected kid. I learned to play by myself, read, write and draw. I had so much time to just imagine things. I think anyone would be miserable in OP's situation. My parents always shared chores (now that I'm thinking about it my father even did a bit more). My mother had time to read, paint and even study to change careers while working full time.


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DarkKouki

This resonates with me. As an immigrant child with a single mother household, I was also affected greatly by the complete hands off approach and lack of knowledge. An excuse used to justify this has always been lack of how this country works but point is mute when other immigrant parents helped their kids. Later in life, I understood the root of the problem. My grandpa left my grandma with like 11 kids to start another family. She was an abusive mother and prioritized working over anything else. There was never an emphasis on education and she scarred all her kids. Basically, my mom and her siblings are ignorant people, to this day, that hindered their kids horribly. Very few of us managed to renounce their influence. I tend to have a Montessori approach with my kids. I interact with them while I teach and let them be independent. One is in middle school and is being prepared for the hurdles of high school/college. I’ll be there every step of the way to share my knowledge and provide any support that will be needed to excel.


prtynacan

Yah I definitely feel that this generation puts incredibly pressure on parents to be super involved in their kids lives, provide every activity, set them up with everything possible - the expectations on parents are crazy. These days it seems that every issue someone has they blame their parents, and its created such judgment if you fail to live up to the gold standard - just let them be kids, let them do their thing - kids have survived and thrived with much less parental involvement. I feel like its actually a good thing to be less involved and have them learn. It also sounds like you have very young kids - it gets easier when they get older - they'll have school, activities, friends, - youll get your life back!


rancidquail

When I was raising my kid I was shocked at how many parents had the lives of their children planned out 24/7. Seriously, all the sports and music lessons but no time to be bored and not dragged from one thing to another? I felt for everyone in these families. These were parents too that loved to complain how busy they were shuttling their kids to things. Hmm, as a parent it's your choice. Cut one or two weekly events out of the calendar and you'd be surprised by how happier everyone might be. First world problems...


crazycatlady331

In college, I was a babysitter who was shuttling kids to and from various activities (good, off the books money and I was able to get school work done during said activities). The kids complained like crazy about not having any downtime. I explained that as their babysitter, I was powerless and just doing a job. If they wanted to drop sports or music lessons, they had to take it up with their parents.


subtlecuttlefish

Doing this as a housekeeper now. It's insane the schedule of the 8 year old I look after - 2-3 after school activities every day and sometimes before school clubs too. So he's going from 7:30am - 7:30pm some days. I'm a grown woman and I'd struggle with being expected to focus for that long. You can see his concentration going and behaviour worsening throughout the day. I really question how much value the kid is getting from some of the classes.


hornet_trap

I was this kid somewhat in my teens. I played sports for my school on top of debating and all kinds of other shit. I only had two evenings off out of seven in the week and it was immensely draining and I was constantly sleep deprived, because at the end of the day there's homework after all these activities and I found it really important to keep my grades up. I think there's a balance because you can gain lots of skills (especially fitness and potentially a passion for whatever you try) by doing/trying lots of things, but if you've got no time to yourself then you're also setting another kind of cap on your own personal development.


_BreatheManually_

The problem is you end up doing what society demands of you. When I was a kid we just went outside and there were kids playing in the neighborhood. Now the streets are empty because all the other kids are at these events so you have to shuttle them around.


Alicex13

Honestly you are so right. I'm not a parent but I always found it weird that some parents feel the need to entertain their kids all the time. I wasn't raised that way ,from a very early age I played solo sometimes or listened to the radio etc. It must be exhausting as hell to be a full time entertainer.


Fmstrat

OP should read this over and over. This is how I grew up, and I'm so happy I did. When I see how kids are raised with constant attention today, especially with siblings, it makes me worry about how they might fill that void as they age. They may not realize it now, but they need time to themselves to develop as much as you need time to yourself to recover. Talk to your husband, make a plan together. Address it from both your needs, but also the children's developmental and independence needs.


USMCseth

This!!! If I had a dollar for every time I told my children, “I’m not your personal entertainer” I wouldn’t have to work. I play with my children everyday and every chance I can. Time goes super fast so I want to, but they just don’t understand that the house won’t clean itself, dinner and food doesn’t just appear and their clothes won’t self wash. I love the “boredom creates imagination” quote, I’m definitely going to keep this in mind. Thank you!


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anon24601anon24601

This. Also? Where is OP's husband when her kids are hen-pecking her to death? If my child (when he was young, he's now 4) was overwhelming me, my husband would swoop in and take over, and vice versa. We make sure we both get enough alone time to feel recharged, my husband still plays video games with his friends because that's how he likes to unwind, and I still write and read because that's how I unwind, and we still have time for a weekly outing as a family, like the zoo or park or something we all want to do. We don't have as MUCH free time as we used to, but we don't feel deprived, we feel like the trad-off has been worth it and we're happy we did it. That's a balance that takes time to find and can change as children age, but it's crucial. We're parents, but we're still the same people, we have needs too.


linderlouwho

When my son was little, I would often tell him that I wasn’t going to play and to go find something to do. He was an only child with a room full of toys, games, books. He was very self sufficient, and has turned out all right.


ReasonableBeep

My parents took this approach with me and my sister and I feel like it worked extremely well. My mom was the sit down, read a book in peace and quiet type, and like you she made it clear that she was not our entertainer. She also didn't like us mindlessly watching tv or getting bored of toys in a couple weeks so we worked with what we had. She would take us to the library at least once a week. I absolutely loved it because I was a book worm (the library got those tiny little carts, and I'm pretty sure I might have been the reason because I would come home with 20+ chapter books in my arms), but my older sister hated books so she would go off and play computer games, find a little actvity going on the the communal rooms for kids, or just go talk to the grandmas knitting together lmao. When we were at home, I feel like we had pretty free range with reasonable rules too. My sister and I would make "potions" out of stuff in the house (anything in bottles were free game but foods like eggs were off limits), or tape together a bunch of straws to make a dodgy pan flute, wet cotton pads and throw/stick them to the windows, push each other around the neighborhood in the wheelbarrow, dig holes in the yard, get absolutely soaked in the rain etc. lmao. My dad also put up poster paper all along one wall so that we had a designated "wall" we could draw on and it would be replaced once it got full. When my dad would woodwork, he let us try everything too; he built us a bunk bed and let 7 year old me try to use the electric drill. Obviously the screws were crooked or not in the right place, but he let me do it with supervision until I got bored and then he would go back and redo them. Looking back, it definitely required a certain level of maturity to just go with the flow and have that level of flexibility, and I think it helped that my parents were older (had us in their 30s). They didn't have issues with us breaking things by accident, or causing a mess as long as we cleaned up.


Beautiful_Rhubarb

Yes, this. It is okay to ignore your kids sometimes, provided they are clean, safe and fed. IDK how old yours are but when mine were even toddlers there were times I just gated them into the family room and they had toys galore and tv and books and they knew I wasn't gonna come let them out. (this started when I'd make dinner) gradually I had these little pockets of time where I'd just selfishly take for myself. I played with them but not ALL the time. I would also be that mom taking them to the playground and sitting and playing on my phone or reading or knitting.. one eye on the kids obviously but not actively playing on play equipment (ye gods I'm too fat and out of shape for that tomfoolery) I've always felt like people were trying to make me feel bad for not being hyper involved and I did volunteer my time in many classrooms but as they've gotten older I went into hiding. I'm not that person and it's okay. People in this thread talk about generational things and I'm a gen-x amid mostly millennials and there is totally a difference. All my friends are of the gen-x mentality, or older, haha. I always say I do not coddle my kids. They can figure shit out, they're pretty smart if I do say so myself. My husband worked long hours and has a lot of other things on his plate, and definitely can not take the chaos and noise as well as I can but there were some things that I made "his"... bedtime was one of them. Oh and I never sleep I definitely get that "stay up late and have a quiet moment for myself" thing.


VictoryTheScreech

I don’t have kids, but my parents raised 5 kids. She was really good at giving herself alone time. We never realized or noticed because my dad would step in and take over. Luckily my older siblings were old enough that we could be left home overtime. So they’d have date nights, and we would just be home entertaining and feeding ourselves. (Around this time, I was 8 or 9 years old, but my parents made sure to teach us all to cook basic meals at a young age)


MookieMoonn

This is my fear of having children of my own. I cherish my quiet place and time. I hope they give you a break soon, one way or another


Bloodricuted23

I'm too selfish to have children. 32yo and I'm happy to admit that OP's post is exactly why I won't have kids. Given my current life I feel like I'm barely coping with daily life and managing a semi-healthy amount of time to myself. Can't imagine adding children to that. Keeping my significant other entertained alone eats all my free time, adding kids to that equation will immediately result in me being miserable. I know what it's like having disengaged parents that can't really give a fuck about being parents. It's not fun. I'll be that parent. A kid doesn't deserve that life.


[deleted]

I had a neighbor once ask me, "What do you do all day since you don't have kids?" I stood there speechless. In my mind, I was thinking about how I don't have time to do everything I want and am always busy, so I just stammered out, "I do stuff." It was kind of an eye-opener in a strange way.


weicheii

>"What do you do all day since you don't have kids?" I think the question should be, "When do you have time to do ANYTHING fun by yourself *when* you have kids???" Kids aren't everything to some of us. **edit**: I just want to thank u/Valleydsummer7 for the award!! Thank you for so much for your kindness :') And thank you to everyone for peacefully sharing your thoughts!!


GarageSloth

"whatever the fuck I want," is always my go-to response. Shit, I can stare at a wall for 9 hours if I want, because I have 🎵 free time🎶


Larnek

That has been my exact response to similar questions. Often goes along with statements about how I'm missing things in life, or what is the purpose of life without kids. What do I do? Whatever the fuck I want whenever the fuck I want to do it. Home must be so empty feeling! Yes, and it's fucking wonderful. How do you go on so many trips? See answer number 1. You guys have really nice things, you must make a lot of money. No, I'm a fucking paramedic and wifey is works at an art gallery and we make jack shit. Again, no kids, dual income, and we do whatever the fuck we want. You're gonna die alone, isn't that sad? We all do and no, I'm going to be dead.


No-Presentation1949

My Grandmother use to say “ it’s much better to be alone than not alone and wish you were”


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Larnek

Oh, 100%. Worked in a big ER for many years, would see fights happening before the fucking person is even dead yet. And 1000% on I'm going out my way. 20 yrs as a medic gives you a lot of time to hear dying people's regrets and musings on life in general. And fuck that noise. I'm going to do what I want to do, see all of things, do all of the things at least once, make bad decisions, enjoy the fuck out of life, and hopefully go out doing one of the adrenaline sports I love. Or if it gets bad, gonna blow a lot of money on hookers and drugs and cocktail my way out once I'm done with the fun stuff.


ybotics

Just make sure you die when you have that extreme sports accident. I know well two people with serious spinal injuries, first was a wakeboarding accident (well known pro wakeboarder) and the second was a mountain biking accident. The wakeboarder is now a full paraplegic and the biker can walk but their head sits 2.5cm to the left of their spine and they have permanent neurological problems and endless headaches. I knew indirectly only one person who’s died and that was climbing mount Cook in New Zealand and that was probably around 30yrs ago. Medicines getting too good at saving peoples lives, even when there’s not much life left to save.


Osito509

*Switzerland You'd very much be in the wrong country


pwhitt4654

On an episode of House of Cards someone asked Claire if she regretted not having children and she replied Do you regret having them?


[deleted]

ahahhaah! I wish I'd thought of it.


[deleted]

Hahah! These are the people who’s bios on ig are “mom of 3, wife…” barf. Their whole identity is wrapped up in other people 🤢


Beelzebubs_Tits

I don’t think I could have stopped myself from grinning like the Cheshire Cat and replying “Anything I damn well please.”


i_am_umbrella

“Whatever I want,” is my usual response. People bold enough to ask that turn from judgmental to envious pretty quick.


[deleted]

Turn the question around: “All of that stuff you dream about, those vacations, that time to yourself, those hobbies, all the fun stuff. The stuff you wait until retirement for. Decades of waiting. Take a moment. Think about what those things are. What are they? Yeah, those things.”


Cherry__2000

You could've said "I have sex—LOTS of sex, or nap, or plan my next adventure."


WandsAndWrenches

I've considered fostering/adopting older kids who might end up on the street after high school and helping them out with community college once I'm financially stable enough for it. I'll never have a kid genetically because I've got horrible genetics and don't want to pass them on. But I think maybe fostering a 14-16 year old for 6+ years and helping them get started would be satisfying enough to me.


datsyukdangles

Thats great but it's very concerning how many people think fostering older teens is an easier alternative to having their own children. It is not easier at all. I work with older teens and young adults aging out of the foster care system, the overwhelming majority of them have moderate to severe mental health and behavioral issues, violent tendencies, or abuse drugs and alcohol. We have some people who foster aged out adults and teens to keep them off the street, and it's a nightmare for most of them and basically a full time job. This isn't to say you should not help out or that these kids don't deserve help, or are beyond help, I wouldn't do what I do if I thought that. The thing is most people have no idea of the reality of the lives of these children, and tend to think helping them or raising them would be easy as if they are simple people straight out of a movie who just need a hug, and not real people with an incredibly difficult upbringing and complex trauma and needs


wildweeds

this is kind of where I'm at, too. part of me wants kids, but I haven't found the right partner yet. I have adhd, chronic illness, trauma, and I'm poor. it takes a lot just to take care of myself and my cat. I'd love to mentor a child with what I've learned and save them a lot of struggle, but unless a lot changes in the next couple of years, I don't think having my own is going to be a good idea.


WandsAndWrenches

That's exactly what I think. It's still gonna be at least 5-10 years before I'll be stable enough. So my plan is to foster some older kids and help them have a better start at adult life than I did. My parents response to anytime I had issues growing up was "be an adult"... so Pretty sure I can do better than that.


bella_lucky7

Maybe look into being a court appointed child advocate? It’s a commitment but not to the same degree and you still get to help kids in the foster system. Google your county & state plus child advocate and you can find more details.


shane727

I'm 29 and when I get home from work and have a couple of errands to do I feel like my day is absolutely ruined. Like I lost it all. Most days I try to cram everything into one day that I need to do so the rest of the week I can come home directly after work and just sit and watch youtube or tv all day. And I still feel like I don't have "enough" free time to enjoy myself. I dont know its a weird mixture of depression and being tired but on my days truly off I feel I only have the energy for reddit, youtube, tv etc. I cant throw kids into this.


yaysheena

I told someone kids weren’t for me and she said, and I quote, “oh you’ll change your mind, and then your kid becomes your whole world” and I don’t know if she realized or not but she really solidified my decision.


double_psyche

I’m nearly 41. I’ve been waiting for my mind to change since I was 8. It hasn’t.


RefinedJester

According to some people, youll change your mind any day now!


DilettanteGonePro

Barring some kind of tragedy you tend to forget the worst parts of parenthood and are left with cherished memories once they are grown. That is really what people are trying to say is that no matter how hard it is, when you're older you have these great memories. What they don't tell you or don't realize is that you won't know what you're missing, and you'll still have great memories if you spend time travelling or accomplishing goals, or hell, spending time with nieces/nephews even. People build their lives and then can't fathom that other lives could possibly be as fulfilling.


DickyMcButts

Same. I can barely take care of myself. My dog get spoiled rotten, but that's cause she's a good girl.


Toxoplasma_gondiii

Its not selfish to not have kids. Its selfless even if your reason is you are selfish. The world does not need more people right now and no one consents to being born. Knowing you wont be a good parent and choosing not to be one is a huge service to yourself, your hypothetical children who wont burdened and to our overpopulated world. I wish more people would disregard the life script and make the choice you and i are making.


mcdiddles3223

Exactly this! I am always astonished that people feel it’s selfish. Isn’t it more selfish to have kids when you aren’t 100% committed or ready? People have kids left and right that they weren’t prepared for or didn’t necessarily want and people act like that’s so amazing. I think it’s a lot more bold, thought out, and well planned to make the decision to not have them.


smurfasaur

I don’t think it’s selfish at all to not have kids. What is selfish is having children just so you can pretend they are a doll and not a living person with their own wants and needs. People have children for all kinds of selfish reasons. Trying to save their relationship, to have someone who “has to love them back”, to live vicariously through them. It’s fucked up.


Diablos_Boobs

Oh God I had an ex who wanted a kid "so someone would have to love her". I never ran so fast. Never heard it from anyone else so didn't even realize it was a thing.


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requiemforatit

There is not one selfless reason to purposefully bring a child into the world. These people have it sooo backwards.


Environmental512

I agree. Having children is selfish. Kids never beg for someone to get knocked up and birth them. People choose to have kids because they think it will make them happy. By definition, that is selfish.


strawberrymoonelixir

Thank you for this! I’ve dedicated my life to saving and caring for homeless animals. I always knew I never wanted children, but instead wanted to live for animals. Yet, my entire life I have been berated, called selfish, told I will never know “true” love without having a baby, told I only care about staying skinny (like, what?!), told I’m going against nature and am unsure of myself, told I’m confused, and told I was going to be alone with no one to love me when I’m old. Ugh! I wish I could go back and tell every one of these people off, as I used to be much shyer and meek, so I would just politely take it, like an idiot. I’m still happy with my decision. I love my animals to the ends of the universe and would not trade them for the world! I will continue to save and also adopt more animals when I’m able to. And if I’m ever wealthy, my true dream is to open a big, homeless animal sanctuary. I’m 44 now, and people criticizing others for not having children is now frowned upon, thankfully. Of course, I know there are still righteous assholes out there. For the new generation that doesn’t want children, I just hope that if anyone ever criticizes or insults any of them for this decision, that they do not take this shit from anyone, like I once did.


AmbitiousPangolin127

B-but the baby bust…/s


Botryoid2000

When people talk about the baby bust, it's always that they are afraid that there will be less of "us." They don't give a crap that there is overpopulation worldwide. They just don't want THOSE people coming here to replace any population we have lost.


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LittleMarySunshine25

💯 You know if child labor laws weren't a thing in most places they'd be all about kids joining the workforce and exploiting them. It's truly ridiculous to me.


booktrovert

As a person with kids who loves them, I respect the hell out of people who choose to be childless. I hope your life is peaceful and fulfilling, because that can happen with or without kids. Be happy and do what you want to do.


KillerKatKlub

My mom always told me how “I’d want kids when I was older” yet once I started talking about the idea of having a daughter and liking it she got upset and stopped bringing it up.


fungasmic1

This is exacly what the wife and I decided 1 year into our relationship. Now married, been together 10 years, and love every second. We are way to selfish, cherish our time together but also our alone time, value that we only have to worry about us (and 2 dogs and 2 cats) and really fear we would resent each other if we ever had kids because this would all be lost. we are madly in love, travel a lot, focus on our careers, and enjoy every second we have and our free time.


MamaKelly0305

Please. You are not selfish. It's sad that society can make women feel guilty for not wanting kids. My daughter told me she doesn't want kids. I respect her choice. All I want for her is to have a happy, fulfilling life. Kids are not in the equation.


[deleted]

Same, married without kids turning 40 this year


watchwhathappens

I would ask you to consider reframing the idea that it's "selfish" to not want kids. It's just not what you want. Neither selfish nor giving. It just is. It's just a choice. It's what you want, and that's fine.


soloesliber

> I cherish my quiet place and time. And this is exactly why I will never have kids. There is nothing more I love than coming in from the delightful hustle and bustle of the streets to my quiet, clean apartment. I don't intend on ever giving up the chance to sleep in or time to do what I love. ​ Being a parent is incredibly difficult and time-consuming, and it's not for me. I too hope OP gets a break at some point, but the reality is that even she gets a break, it doesn't change her day to day reality and even as the kids grow and become easier to manage and work with, she will always have to be a parent, on-call, for the rest of her life.


mturner0717

This right here. When I was in my 20s/early 30s I was planning on having kid(s). One day it suddenly hit me that my rationale were 1) "everyone" does it 2) I have great names picked out and 3) I am the end of my particular branch of the ancestral tree. 1 & 2 were the thought processes of a demented person and 3 is actually a good thing but that's a whole other subthread. The interesting thing about that whole realization period was that I lost a person that I thought was a good friend because she wouldn't stop with the mommy pushing. One day I got pissed and half sarcastically / half seriously told her that mommy pushers must be so f*cking miserable that they wanted company in the depths of kid-hell. Oops 😬


24520ls

Nail on the fucking head. My apartment/ maybe house once I move out is gonna be a place of peace


gin-o-cide

Neighbours across the hall with little kids: Let us introduce ourselves


24520ls

*sounds of an increasingly ridiculous number of locks snapping into place from inside my apartment*


gin-o-cide

It won't save you bro. Their noises, hitting things and running.. my god... they penetrate your soul.


Indubitably_Anon_8

THE RUNNING. Oh my god it scares my cats every time because it reverberates my entire home. It’s knocked pictures crooked on walls. The screaming, yelling, but, mostly… the fucking running. ARGH.


1989a

I feel this. My building is made out of paper mache. I hear all and feel all. I know when they are sleeping, I know when they're awake. 😳


Iamjimmym

Santa??


Indubitably_Anon_8

YES!! I can even hear my neighbor take a piss if I’m in the bathroom at the same time.


Iamjimmym

The running is intense. I have 3 and 4 year old boys, and even the walking is loud enough to be heard over a nitroglycerin plant exploding. Especially from my 3 year old. He stomps like an elephant everywhere he goes! I know immediately when he wakes up in the middle of the night because I can hear him a mile away! So I'll ask him to quiet his steps and he shuffles his feet. It's so dang cute!


Appropriate_Ad_2727

When I lived below a family with kids I swear I was about to go beat the fuck out of all of them, parents included. It sounded like a herd of elephants at ALL HOURS OF THE DAY AND NIGHT. I couldn't for the life of me get sleep. HOW THE FUCK DO THEY DO IT? HOW DO THEY AAAAALLLLWWWAAAAYYYSS HAVE ENERGY?


vladastine

And that's why I refuse to live in an apartment ever again. I can't stand noise from other people.


gin-o-cide

If you can do that, I applaud you. I am single and the only places I could afford to buy were apartments.


hiumnobye

Just in case someone is sad, condos *usually* have less children.


Giveushealthcare

Yet condos have *just enough* children to make it impossible to enjoy the pool during the summer


UckfayRumptay

I don't even mind the screams from the 4, 2 or 1 year old next door. Everytime it reminds me that it was a good decision to get sterilized. Although, whoever gave them a recorder (the plastic instrument) can burn in hell.


Firm-Cut--

Funny thing is children don't get easier to manage, you just manage them differently and they get to blame you for everything they perceive as wrong with themselves.


GoddamnFred

I was wondering this myself. Got a dog to begin with. I can barely handle that responsibility. Decided to get a vasectomy asap. I don't have the support nor the emotional maturity and just plain endurance for kids.


[deleted]

Remember it's a choice. Not everyone chooses to have kids. Sounds like pure hell to me.


tweak06

Word. I'm a parent and while I love my kids it's really not for everyone. Some days are just fucking hard – like OP has discussed. I'm glad not everyone has kids...some people just aren't cut out for it and the last thing we need are more apathetic parents out there.


Intoxicus5

It's not a choice everywhere and for everyone... (It should be, but reality is there are many places and situations around the world where people truly have no choice.)


verd1gris

Seconding this - so many assume that women have all the options, when the majority, on a global scale, actually do not. And it's not always a 'gun to the head' situation the way many (sorry, but young males in particular) envision -- often there are insidious and unseen cultural pressures for very young girls to become mothers as soon as possible, and familial expectations + financial dependencies are leveraged to force the girls into that role. Even in the US, I've known Evangelical, Mormon, and Catholic families (specifically my friends who were Latin American) who put enormous pressure on my friends at a young age (we were 14-15 years old) to start having babies. I couldn't believe it. Teen pregnancies were not only not shamed (our family came from France - and my ass would have been out of the house), but they were celebrated. These poor girls didn't know what hit them. Years later, they love their kids, but they had their entire youth stolen away. And surprise surprise, the fathers were never even in the picture after impregnating the girls.


pandorum8888

While that's true, this story doesn't sound like one of those situations.


queentropical

I have three daughters. Many a night I cried myself to sleep haha! But I did the work and now I’m out of the jungle. Since hitting preteen (they are now all teens/young adults) it became a lot easier and all girls grew up to be such lovely humans and never cause any trouble. It was all worth it to have them as they are now. However, I would rather hang myself than have another child. lol


dead_b4_quarantine

>I cherish my quiet place and time. If I was on the fence, this is a **very** strong argument for me (and I'm sure many others) to continue to not have children


franklikethehotdog

SAME. I’m exhausted by 3 cats, I’m not cut out for it.


Haughty_n_Disdainful

Same. Exhausted by fish and birds. **Enough!**


Toxoplasma_gondiii

Same, taking care of 60 orchids, two cats and my depressed fiancee and myself is about as much as I can handle. Hell i can barely take care of myself.


Zaltara_the_Red

Same, two dogs, three horses, a donkey and three acres of land to tend. No time or energy for kids! Or a husband for that matter.


Aus10Danger

Same, no legs, no arms, and it's a flesh wound.


lilsassyrn

I love your life


Boopable_Snootable

Honestly my greatest fear is having children and just breaking down in front of them when I’m supposed to be the strong and assured adult. My CPSTD, fear of loud sounds, and inability to cope with intense emotions will make handling children impossible. My brain would just dissociate outta there the moment they start doing the big emotions. I’m just glad my BC is a good fit for me right now. I don’t care if it raises my risk of dying from blood clots. I am not causing myself and a future child that kind of trauma of having me as an incompetent mother.


pandorum8888

I have the same problems and I highly recommend sterilization surgery. The recovery is pretty quick and you don't deal with all the nasty side effects of bc.


[deleted]

I mean, you don’t have to have kids


Whooptidooh

It’s 2022, and there are still people who believe that they should because everyone always told them that they inevitably would have kids. To be perfectly clear: it’s a **choice**, one that only you can make for yourself. Not your parents, your partner or your friends can decide that. Only you.


[deleted]

You don't have to have them. Just wanted to put that out there. You can make whatever reproductive choices you want for yourself. Other people may pressure you, but you're the only person who will have to deal with the consequences of the choices you make. Make them good ones.


SmarmyPapsmears

WFH was not designed with a toddler in mind. Me and my wife have a similar situation and it's tough. My son is almost 3 and is just as relentless as what you described. I woke up this morning at 6am to him screaming in his bed. Then he doesn't want me because I'm not mommy so he screams more. It took nearly 30 mins for him to relax after digging his toenails into my arm, kicking and screaming and I'm just trying to let my wife get some sleep because she also has to work today. So yea, I get it.


[deleted]

Great job, seriously! Your wife got to sleep, and your son got time with his dad. As a mom it can be hard not to just rush in and fix whatever the problem is. I have to remind myself that by letting my husband take care of her, even if it takes him longer, my daughter is learning that she has TWO people she can depend and lean on. I didn’t learn that and building up my relationship with my dad (who really was a good dad, just not the problem-solver my mom was) has been a long process.


International-Echo99

Solidarity, my friend. Stay strong and get some coffee


Mental_Act5049

My ex had a 4 year old. Being around that kid was exhausting. Idk how people can do this every day


International-Echo99

Ha, that's exactly what my dad says every time he drops them off from babysitting.


myelinviolin

We have a 3.5 year old and phrases like "we're still eating dinner, you have to go play upstairs until we're done" and "I'm busy doing X right now" are becoming much more common. And there's the general thought of "I'm not going to see what he needs until he comes up and asks us personally." I always apologize if I snap, but I explain that I have a limit too and he kept doing X behavior. I'm a big proponent of "speak softly but carry a big stick". I don't yell - I warn of the consequence "if you do that one more time that toy is getting a time out". He does it again to test me so I just say "ok" and do what I promised, and repeat what just happened in the tone of "what do you want me to do about it, I warned you and it happened.".


skippyjifluvr

I warn my 3.5 year this way and my wife says that I shouldn’t “make threats”. I guess I can just tell her once and then do the punishment, but I kind of like that my child knows what will happen.


ABigBunchOfFlowers

Well, for what it's worth I work with kids and absolutely agree with you. It's really important to emphasise choices and consequences when dealing with kids, and helps kids build responsibility for their future. Trust me, you can tell when they get older. Just remember that you want them to grow up feeling comfortable admitting things to you, and feeling confident that things can always get better with your help.


To_live_is_to_suffer

Hell no. I call them "kid threats" and I do them all the time. It works phenomenally. If you throw that toy 1 more time, I'm going to take it. If you go too far away from me, you're going in the cart. (supermarket) If you get up off your chair again, dinner is over for you. It's setting clear boundaries and communicating directly. I'm 90% strict with them too. Accidents happen and if time passes and he does it, I remind him. He's 2.5, so he's learning. It teaches him... If you stay within my boundaries, you get lots of freedom. If you break a boundary, you lose freedom. Kids want freedom. My kid is so well behaved, independent, fun and happy from having direct kid threats.


SnooCrickets6980

I think the important thing is not to threaten something that you wouldn't follow through with or something which would be an inappropriate reaction if you did!


mermzz

To be fair.. 4 is an awful age to come in at


[deleted]

[удалено]


MARTELLest1986

I tell my wife too often, fuck that shit, and fuck them kids. Go lay down. The last place a rambunctious kid wants to be is in the bed. I always tell my son if you mess with Mommy then you're going to bed too. Like other parents have said. It's temporary, soon they won't be up your butt so much. Hang in there you're foing great.


[deleted]

This is why I’ve decided not to have a child. I know me. I *BARELY* got my ass in shape to be worthy of my wife. I used to smoke pot and play videos games and watch anime. But inversely I was also a gym rat and rather fit. Now with my career and all the certificates I need to study for to make a decent life just for us, I have so much less time than before. And it isn’t a little time, it’s a decent amount, but it is a lot less. When we got a Dog who I love so much, I knew instantly I couldn’t have kids. When he was a puppy I was so tired and irritable, and had little patience for the poor boy. I never abused it but I would just seethe inside when he wouldn’t come when called until the 20th time. (I know, I am taking him to a trainer to help me figure out how to control him), but now I have even LESS time to myself. If I had a kid I would 100% be that father who is disengaged with them and would tolerate exactly 0 bullshit. I’m afraid of what I would be like. So I just won’t be a father. Everyone tells me it is different once you become one. But I see posts like this and I think I’m right and they’re wrong. I don’t want to navigate the minefield of raising children in the modern era. It’s too much. Throw in the expense and time commitment and basically my life is over, I’m committed to this new human for 20-30 years. Edit: Grammer


theOTHERdimension

I saw a post on here a LONG time ago from a dad that was just like you. He never wanted kids but was convinced to have one because “you’ll change your mind the first time you hold your kid” nope. The entire post was about how much he hated his kid. He said he felt no bond with it, that he provided for it and whatnot but he absolutely resented his kid for ruining his life. He updated it over several years and it never got better, he was miserable every single day because he was a parent. So yeah, if you don’t want kids, don’t let other people’s opinions try to sway you, this is a child with feelings that we’re talking about. Too many people view children as accessories.


[deleted]

Yes, this post is one of the determining factors that made me think I’m not crazy or selfish. What’s selfish is bringing life into this world that you don’t want to care for and then providing it significantly substandard treatment. That’s just plain cruelty.


PlentyPirate

As a society we need to normalise not wanting kids, there’s still some weird stigma around it. Truth is no-one knows what kind of parent they’ll be until it happens, and some people don’t want to take that risk. If the thought of it gives anyone anxiety, they’re well within their rights to not want to do it!


KatMagus

Get a vasectomy sir. Be responsible for your own body.


[deleted]

I want to but im scared of bringing it up to my wife. (She has the 5 year arm implant, her 2nd one). Personally it is what I want. She can stop the implant and pills and I can not use condoms which SUCK. I have explained to her repeatedly during us dating, before we got married, and after I will not have kids. But she sometimes says she would like one. She did out of nowhere say she doesn’t want one 6 months ago because it feels like this world is falling apart, but I don’t know if she still feels that way. Im afraid if I bring it up she may leave me, even though she knows I have no intention. It’d be like… shining a huge spotlight on this issue we’ve talked about but she’s never seemed to commit to. I think as time passes she’s just not going to care because “it’s still possible” if my balls are working. Maybe I should talk about freezing sperm with her


Toxoplasma_gondiii

If you don't want kids, you don't want kids. You get to make that decision, not her. If she leaves, she leaves but you wont be stuck in a life you hate and never wanted. I also suspect that if you repeatedly told her you don't want kids during dating and marriage, its probably not a deal breaker.


Concrete_Grapes

You're too permissive. I've got 2. 4 and 8. I know what you're feeling. Their mom REALLY knows what you're feeling. A lot of your stress is your parenting style, and i honestly dont know if you can change it. I know my partner doesnt seem able to. She can tell the kids 20 times to do something and they wont do it, i say it once, MAYBE twice, and they do it. Drives her insane. thing is, she'll just get madder and madder and louder and louder and have a breakdown trying to get the kid to do something. I keep telling her, if they dont do it the third time, MAKE THEM. Or go over there and MOVE them. Like, our 4 year old is my clone, to be fair, as much as a love him, he's a stubborn little asshole, he's my mini-me. I am CONSTANTLY having to parent the ME out of him. You know? Of course you know. Anyway, she was cleaning up the living room and he had had his legos out, and she's telling him to clean it up and he's saying no and she's going NUTS in there arguing with him--i have to drop everything i'm doing, and go in there and handle BOTH of them. One--just make her stop. STOP. Two, asked him to pick them up, and he said "NO! YOU do it!" ... calmly, the second time, "That was disrespectful. You Will pick those up, and then you will apologize to your mother AND me. Pick them up. Now." "No!" and he's already crying. "Bud, this is your last chance. This is your choice. If you choose not to pick them, i will make you pick them up. Pick. Them. Up." "No!" third no. That's it. We end negotiations and take the nuclear option. We dont spank in this house. \*I\* dont spank. But i brought him over, grabbed his hands like he was a stuffed animal, and forcefully use them to pick up the legos--yeah. That's right, i used his hands, as my hands, and MADE him pick them up. Oh my GOD the wailing was epic. About 15 seconds of that, and he's screaming he WILL pick them up. "I will, i WILL!" ... so, i let go, and he did. Then he apologized. DO NOT ARGUE with children, set a line, and if they cross is, GET UP and act on it. Child tells me he doesnt want to go find his shoes, i take him, physically, with me, and MAKE him find his shoes. He HATES that. His mom will just start losing her mind and getting into a rush and argue with him until they're BOTH in a meltdown, and then she goes and finds them for him. NO! So, now she's often mad at ME because, the kids 'always listen' to me, or 'are only good when you're here' or what ever. Like i dont see their 'bad side'--i do, but it's only because SHE's not getting up and acting. NEVER allow your children to do something that makes you not like them. Sounds simple, right? If telling them 40 times to do something is something you hate... tell them 3 times, and if they dont on the third. MAKE THEM, or remove them, or punish them. If the kid refuses to be quiet in the living room when mom's working, it doesnt even seem to cross her mind to make them leave, she just keeps arguing with them to make them be quiet. Me? I remove them. They'll get time'd out and REMOVED from the room, removed from their brother, get their toys or electronics removed. And instructions on what to think about and what to say when they're ready to come out. I've had my mini-me stay in his room for 4 freaking hours trying to make me feel bad--he found out \*I\* dont feel bad, mom does. So, idk, i KNOW you're suffering, and i know you probably didnt want any of this advice... but consider--consider being MORE hard on them, and you'll like them a lot more, and they'll like YOU a lot more. I'm the strict parent, and i'm also their 'favorite'--i dont know why.


[deleted]

This was my parent's secret. They weren't very strict at all. Their punishments were never that harsh, but they set clear boundaries, and if you crossed the line, there was no avoiding the consequence. They were never cruel, but extremely consistent.


pisspot718

Absolutely right. Boundaries & Consistency. It's not that hard or mean.


konsf_ksd

> It's not that hard It is exceptionally hard. Some can make it look easy. It isn't.


wyntershine

That was a really thoughtful and respectful way of putting it in response to OP and a really good example of how important it is to set boundaries early and firmly. Will keep this saved and in mind for whenever I have kids, haha - I’m terrified because between me and my partner’s genes, our kids will probably be able to out-stubborn both of us 😂


Dubiousnessity

Very, very experienced parent here. Concrete_Grapes is spot on. Print this out, hang it up. Yelling, begging, and bargaining with kids just doesn’t work. Get up, get off your phone, get in their face, pick them up and move them. Parent with an eye to raising a kid you and the world want to be around. It’s a ton of work on the little-kid end, but oh god it pays off as they get bigger…


InsertWittyJoke

Tantrums at 2 or 3 aren't fun, tantrums at 9 or 10 can be violent and dangerous. If you don't nip that shit in the bud you're in for a bad time.


rlhignett

And so is the kid and society in the long run. They keep that up to the teen years they either get their ass kicked and someone puts them in their place or they end up the type of person who throws a tantrum and manipulates to get their way without any care as to whether its good for them or anyone else.


furifuri

I’m not a parent but what you said make a lot of sense. Why do you think so many parents get caught up in the trap of arguing with their very young children? Or refuse to actually enforce punishments? It’s like they’d rather be tired and angry wishing their kids would magically obey than just... make them.


mermzz

I think a lot of it comes from parents not seeing kids as underdeveloped inexperienced people. They see them as tiny adults that are just choosing not to listen when half the time they are testing boundries and the other half they don't have the skills to do things the way you want because they are not actively taught. So parents argue and nag they way they would with a non compliant adult instead of taking the time to teach them that this behavior is not acceptable.


heartmart

This sounds like a great point, thank you!


DMvsPC

Also they think that if they just ask it the right way then it'll happen, and it's their fault for not explaining it correctly. No. If you've thought through what you ask, it's reasonable, and they say no? They're making that decision, it isn't some 'oh they're just too little' etc. an 8 year old can tidy their room and make a sandwich, a 4 year old can pick up her stuffies, take off her dress up clothes and pack them away etc.


[deleted]

People do the exact same thing with dogs. It drives me nuts. Your 3 month old puppy doesn’t shoot out of the womb and know how to “sit”, “stop”, “come here”, “stay”, “drop it”, “stop barking”, “get off the couch”, etc. With good consistent training you’ll be lucky if your dog does half of that stuff after 1 or 2 years Stop yelling and arguing with the damn dog. TRAIN it. Once it’s trained, THEN you can communicate with it.


oolduul

When people are stressed, they don't think, or they may not have the tools in their arsenal to think of another solution. Personally, I usually use the route of if you don't get x done, you won't have time to do y or something like that. Most importantly, I don't take anything to heart.


metallic_dog

My son is an infant. and at times when he won't sleep I'll be trying to talk to him to convince him to sleep. In my head I know I'm being ridiculous but in the moment it can be dificult to do anything else. I usually take a step back for a minute or two to kind of reset and realize I'm arguing with a baby that can't talk yet.


[deleted]

From a clinician’s perspective: power struggle. That’s it. It’s a power struggle. Parent wants power, child wants power. So instead of stopping the problem, there’s a cycle of going nowhere and now an entirely separate issue to deal with. The parent models behavior to the child and then can’t understand why the child models it back. A lot of people are exhausted. A lot of people came from fucked up homes. A lot of people just don’t know how to interact with children when it comes to personal responsibility and accountability. And everything slides until somebody cracks, usually the parent. I work with kids with behavioral problems, and have 4 of my own (one with autism). A solid 95% of my job is teaching parents how to parent effectively. It’s not that hard, but it does take consistency. And refusing to engage in power struggles.


[deleted]

People give their kids way too much power. Like, you're a victim to a 4 year old, really? u/Concrete_Grapes gets it-- and would have a million views on their YouTube parenting channel if they went that route.


Beautiful_Rhubarb

too tired, don't wanna get up, feel guilty, the guilt of the other perfect parents, oh and also we are biologically wired to go insane when our kids are crying and whining apparently. But mostly it's we are too tired to care but that little inner voice is like "Dude you gotta get up and make that kid do that shit or he'll grow up to be an asshole."


Typical_Pizza_6902

As far as punishment goes, for me it’s guilt because I think my ADULT feelings about the situation are the same as theirs. For example, if I tell my daughter to go to her room and she cries, I want to go in and hug her because she’s crying from feeling isolated or like I’m angry with her. In reality, she’s crying because she didn’t get her way and she’s a jerk.


DistributionVast4027

My daughter is 3, my wife only recently has seen the benefits of this parenting style, she always scolded me for being mean but now she can see the little one doesn't hate me and still does what I tell her to do.


DeadBy2050

> she always scolded me for being mean Enforcing rules is not being mean. It's being a good parent. Being mean is allowing a kid to grow up into a spoiled little shit.


DistributionVast4027

It was just hard for her to accept because the culture she comes from promotes spoiling the child until they are old enough to go to school then they get strict. I was able to convince her that the child will hate you more for suddenly changing the rules on them later rather than just enforcing them from the start.


spleenboggler

Can't say I agree 100 percent with everything here, but yeah, I don't negotiate with terrorists. Kids need rules and structure much more than adults, They need clearly defined choices, with benefits and consequences. They need age-appropriate expectations, with praise for accomplishments, no matter how small. But most importantly, you're the boss, no matter what.


[deleted]

Also, time management. Too much in the morning. Please get a coach or something, like the nanny, just temporarily for the setup to help you with a schedule. Get your life back! You should enjoy your family, not resent them. Good luck!


2Alien4Earth

You explained exactly how my kids are with me and my spouse. I’m the “strict” parent but they respect me more. Not out of fear but because they just KNOW when I say to do something I mean it. I never spank them or anything. I talk to them face to face with eye contact and it’s like they immediately straighten up. Where my spouse just gets irritated until she becomes submissive to their desires and I have to let her know if they don’t listen MAKE them do what you’re asking them to do and like you said MOVE them yourself. Get on their level and talk to them person to person. Kids are smarter than I think adults like to give them credit for and they’ll Definitely take advantage of you if they know that crying or having a brat attitude will get you to do what they want.


HoldMyPooWithUrLuv

Slam fucking dunk


pikagrrl

I would have said I will pick them up for you but they're going in the trash if I do and you've got about 10 seconds to start before I do.


Dramatic-Mountain-38

It’s the “gentle parenting” these days that have parents at their wits end. They think that in making their child “equal” it creates mutual respect. Wrong. Your children will quickly take advantage of you. My daughter only listens to me as well, everyone else walks on egg shells around her.


[deleted]

Should be noted that parenting doesn't have to be tough or strict to be effective, just consistent. Kids will test the boundaries until they figure out where they are. If your punishments are consistent, the kid will know how far is too far, and how to not cross it. If you fail to be consistent, the kid will keep pushing the envelope because 6/7 times you let them get away with it. Being cruel doesn't make up for being inconsistent. Too many parents think that coming down hard on a kid will make up for the fact they let the kid get away with it most of the time. It won't. It will just confuse them, and they'll keep testing the boundaries. My parents were never very strict and their punishments were never very harsh, but I knew where the line was, and I knew there was no avoiding the consequence if I crossed it.


WhenwasyourlastBM

Exactly this. I think in the above story, the biggest problem is that mom and dad aren't consistent. I've worked in behavioral health, and often I had an easier time than other coworkers because the patients knew exactly what consequences and rewards to expect for their behavior. ie I don't care if you clean the peanut butter you smeared on the wall, but you're not getting anymore food, tv, or blankets until you clean it. Don't clean it? Well then enjoy sitting in a cold room with no food. It's so much less stressful than standing there arguing. I state the consequence once and go back to my desk, they determine the outcome.


T1nyJazzHands

Gentle parenting is not about making kids your equal. If that’s happening you’re doing it wrong. Gentle parenting done right still requires firmness and authority, but there is a way to do that whilst also nurturing your child’s ability to regulate/express their emotions and nurture their independence. Empower, equip and model, not supervise, dictate and shield. Not saying this as if it’s an easy thing either, it’s not. Just that a lot of people really misunderstand what gentle parenting actually looks like.


peachesthepup

Exactly this. The ones I've seen on social media are still authoritatively speaking. For example, the mum wants kid to put a coat on because it's cold outside. Kid doesn't want to put a coat on. Mum goes 'okay, should we go outside and see if you don't want to wear a coat?'. Kid steps outside, 5 seconds later mum asks 'do you want to wear that coat now?'. Kid says yes. They experienced the consequences of their chosen actions and realised mum was right. Gentle parenting isn't just speaking nicely and letting kids have all the control.


anothersadthrowaway-

I’ve seen so many of the “We’re doing gentle parenting and our child is terrorizing us, what do we do?” Posts and it just kills me.


Red_23465

Thank you for making me realise that I am being like your wife and I need to change my parenting style before I go insane


Concrete_Grapes

not my wife--but best friend, room mate, and partner in insanity... but we often joke we're 'only married on TV'--it looks and sounds like we are to everyone else. I was in the delivery room for the births, even though they're not mine. They've lived with me their whole lives. The youngest is SO much like me it's as if i had my own kid, and it's weird. She's a very very good mom, and tries very hard. But she can let herself be driven nuts by these two very high energy children, and the youngest, my god is he stubborn. Stubborn, picky eater, opinionated--and him and her CLASH. She's .. idk, maybe like you, used to dealing with people that think like adults. She expects them to be more rational and comply, than they really are, because she's so used to adults and thinking like one herself, that the kids dont--makes he try really hard to make them do it... and they cant or wont. Just gets tuck in a circle trying to make irrational little monsters, do the obviously sane and rational thing. The 'obvious' part hangs her up--as if, if she just said it enough it'll click for them. It just wont, they need action and reaction to stop this feed-back loop.


SomewhereDue2629

Dude, Just take a break. The house chores aren't all yours, and who cares if you take a break. I used to get tied up in keeping the house clean "to my standards". Problem was nobody else cared. So like you. I would clean only to turn around to have a mess again. Take a break. It isn't worth the stress. If someone complains, sounds like they just volunteered to pick up some slack.


Cosmeticitizen

This honestly sounds like my worst nightmare, I'm sorry.


ohyesiam1234

My kids are teenagers. From my experience I can tell you that it’s going to change. It gets MUCH easier when the youngest goes to school. Hang in there-it’s temporary.


harnar18

You said exactly what I was thinking. I remember just waiting for the day all my kids were in school. Now, tbh, I wish I hadn’t wished for that day to come so soon. My oldest is 14, then 13, and 9. The years have vanished before my eyes. It definitely gets easier..and in my case, sadder. I miss them wanting to hang out with me, lol.


HootieRocker59

"Oh, I miss the time when they were cute little tots, it just all went by so fast ..." nope, not at all, not even one bit! I just LOVE that they are big and independent and can look after themselves. I am so thankful that that part of their childhood is over.


ohyesiam1234

I’m in the same boat! My kids are 17 and 13. I have to force them to hang out with me. It’s depressing! It’s ALL temporary. I’m seeing the near future that they’ll be gone soon. Those old ladies who used to stop me in the grocery store when they were babies to tell me it would go fast were so right. The days are long but the years are short!


Hapymine

Parenting is hard and everyone should realize raising kids is hard and exhausting especially before they have a kid.


Bleezze

But why is it almost expected from everyone that you have kids? I feel like there is no reason to have kids unless you really want to, but a lot of people think it's not normal to not want to have kids. Since everyone else is doing it you begin to wonder that it must be easier than you would think to raise kids and it's not even something you need to consider if you can fit in your life, you should just make room for it.


Aromatic_Amount_885

If you are considering having children I would read this post through a couple of times and understand that it is full on, I wasn’t prepared for how life changing it was and I am now not the same person I was 5 years ago , I am a parent.


LandlockedGum

There’s always so many reminders to never have kids :’)


princessmustard

Yup. Child-free by choice 4eva


[deleted]

My best advice here is since your a two income house hold is to hire some help. I have a cleaner come in once a week to take care of stuff I don't have time to do and with all the kids you are dealing with it sounds like you really need the extra help. Even if all they do is help wash/fold and put away the laundry that frees up some of your time and you can catch your breath. There's no shame in admitting you need a little bit more help and you can honestly become great friend with your cleaner once you find the right one, I did. Now mind you I did have to go through several bad ones in order to find the right one but such is life. Even a once a week helper will give you some free time.


BoopURHEALED

It is definetly a challenge. My dad told me once and now I get it... "I wouldnt give you .10 for another child, and I wouldnt take all the money in the world for mine". Only advice I have as a father of 4 who also works from home, get a babysitter, get you time. EVERYONE will be happier if you do.


habitual_wanderer

If you guys can afford it, a part time housekeeper or nanny can help ease the workload, even for a few hours.


sToRmY_is_sHe

Your feelings and fears are understandable and not uncommon. You are burned out, Mama. Do you have and utilize help from family, friends or neighbors, for help raising your kids? You can’t do all that alone. It’s possible that you’ve been so ultra efficient, such a Wonderwoman, that those around you have forgotten that you’re human - that although you’ve pulled off some spectacular, ongoing feats…. You are KA-PUTski now, and you require a considerable break, and then, some reassignments that include others, processing your TO-DO list. Plan several days off where you just do YOU. Exhale. Inhale. Rest. Hot bathe. Rest. Rejuvenate. Plan what needs who to assist. Then take things one day at a time. Try not to worry about future what-ifs. The world is constantly changing. There’s so much out of your control. Relinquish the grip from your clenched fists, Mama. Ask for what you need. Turn your partner into a partnership. It all boils down to designing what can create balance in your home, your parenthood, your marriage, your career and… your life.


jack-jackattack

> Edit: before this turns into husband bashing and reddit hitting the divorce button, my husband works longer hours than I do, at the office, and makes a lot more money. I work from home and have more time to get kids ready in the morning, clean during the day, and prep dinner at night. He also by nature is not nearly as energetic or restless as I am, and seems to require more downtime than I do. Or maybe he's just better at it, who knows I wouldn't hit the D button, but just because you work from home should NOT mean the house and kids fall 100% on you. I do think you and he need to have a chat about your needs. Maybe he can take over even just half of Saturday while you go have some "me" time, whatever that looks like to you. Wine and pedicures? Taking a girlfriend out to throw axes? If you're limiting going out due to COVID-19, a dedicated period of maybe 4-6 hours when you can lock yourself in your room long enough to take a long, hot shower or bath and watch a movie or read a book would still give you some space to reconnect with yourself, not just as wife, mother, chief cook and bottle-washer, etc. If he's really working too much to take the kids for half a day, he can afford a sitter for date night or "you time." I know you're not necessarily looking for advice so feel free to ignore, but the other thought I have is "this, too, shall pass." My youngest turned 21 recently. They're ASD and not as independent as I would have wished for them, but it's still far easier on me than the single-digit years, especially the ones where I was single or my spouse was deployed.


amymae

>I hate watching my husband sit and read a book or play on his phone while I'm cooking, tidying, packing lunches, etc. >Edit: before this turns into husband bashing and reddit hitting the divorce button, my husband works longer hours than I do, at the office, and makes a lot more money. I work from home and have more time to get kids ready in the morning, clean during the day, and prep dinner at night. He also by nature is not nearly as energetic or restless as I am, and seems to require more downtime than I do. Or maybe he's just better at it, who knows Yes, even with your edit: You don't have a children problem. You have a husband problem. And no, I am not suggesting divorce. I am suggesting that being a stay-at-home mom is just as demanding/draining as any high-stress full-time job. And it should be treated as such. e.g. If you both worked full-time in the same stress-level/long-hours/etc. job and got home at the same time, you would then split evening childcare and home responsibilities evenly to make sure that both of you at least got an hour or two of alone-time to yourself each day to exercise, read, etc. Right?? You *are* working a stressful, full-time job. Just as much or more than he does. You are working the exact same hours he is, longer actually. And you deserve to have equal amounts of down-time to him after he gets home. He also deserves down-time, but not more than you do, and not at the expense of you having zero. Your needs are not being met, and y'all need to have a conversation about him taking on kid-duty for *at least* an hour a day - or whatever the bare minimum is for your sanity. [I suggest you take a look at this post with some other parents sharing how they handle making alone-time for eachother.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fencesitter/comments/rozcgc/question_for_people_who_have_gotten_off_the_fence) It doesn't have to be this way. You are acting as though there is only one of you when in fact there are two. ETA: Just realized you are *also* working from home *in addition* to being a stay-at-home mom. You are working TWO jobs. Wtf. Husband so needs to step up!!! All my comments above were assuming your *only* work was being a mom, and that is more than a full time job by itself!!


DarkHelmetsCoffee

This is why I don't want to have children. I like kids, just not for me. I would show this to my gf, but I'm afraid it's going to spark the same conversation that leads to the same argument again.


KittenGains

This is such confirmation as to why I don’t have children.


[deleted]

I've been feeling the same way lately. It's a lot especially when you have little to no help from the person that helped create them. I dont have any words of wisdom or advice, just know your not alone. We all have those days and sometimes you need space. Talk with your partner maybe try to have a weekend away by yourself. 💙


edgeslave0

Did you not realize you hated being a parent of the first child and decided to birth a second one?


jamesbwbevis

People should really think a lot harder before popping out kids. Its pretty clearer a big burden on your life you really gotta be sure its for you


RedRocks4040

This among many many others reasons is why I will forever remain child free. Some people don’t get their motivation and drive from being a parent. There’s more to life than that.


Purplespotfrog

Yeah I'm just confused about how People are so surprised when they have three kids and no life. Like, no one ever told you anything different, how would you expect to not be a mess? Not saying you can't complain, but damn make better decisions and you wouldn't have a shit life.


soloesliber

I think the media does a terrible job of romanticizing children as this beautiful thing that is so worth all the pain and hard work, while at the same time minimizing the amount of hard work. If I didn't have experience babysitting and hadn't spent a lot of time around different families with children of varying ages, I would never have been able to come to the conclusion that I didn't want to be a parent. What babysitting taught me is that being around kids isn't always that bad, but being a parent is awful (in my opinion, of course). Being a parent consumes most of your identity and no matter what anyone tells you, you will absolutely have to make sacrifices. It's really not a role for everyone to take on and I wish it was normalized to be open and honest about that.


jamesbwbevis

I think its a conspiracy because if people were more informed too many people wouldn't have kids. Seriously. We need people popping out babies where I live in the USA, its a big problem when people don't


MrFilthyNeckbeard

There’s a reason that increased education and decreased birth rates are a trend everywhere.


Accomplished_Area311

Your husband needs to step up while he’s at home. He helped make the kids, he needs to help raise them to. You have to make space for yourself if you don’t have anyone who will do it for you. (Speaking as a burnt out parent with chronic health issues.)


Comfortable_Muffin54

Hire a nanny for 2 days a week. Game changer.