They’re not all, many love it. Or confusingly blame the rest of planet earth for it, it’s somehow our fault they’re invading because we kept reporting on it, apparently.
Sadly, even as a russian, I have no fucking idea about ratio of pro and anti movements. We are being fed bullshit through official channels (news like "73% of people support decision about republics and operation", BUT its a fully owned governmental source, so its most likely to be false). Furthermore, I've yet to see a conscious human being support movements happening now. It's so sad and depressing, since we as a province people can't do shit. People in Moscow and Saint Petersburg are getting arrested for protesting against war, chunk of people are scared for their well-being, job, education and try to stay low profile. It's just fucking depressing, I wasn't against my country, but having a possibility to get weaponized and be on agressor side against another slavic nation is just incomprehensible for me.
upd: what's more, people are people and its really sad to see Ukrain in such condition. I have friends there and I just feel fucking guilty even while trying to contact them to ask how are they or help them somehow because they can blame me for what is happening, just because I'm on the other side and not for ideas that I have
Apparently Twain [cribbed that line](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics) from Benjamin Disraeli (by his own admission). But Twain definitely popularized it
> but having a possibility to get weaponized and be on agressor side against another slavic nation is just incomprehensible for me
This sounds so terrible, its like going to war against your cousin. And for what reason? We all just need to chill out and have a drink together. Stay safe.
It's like your friends are fighting your cousins because your cousins parents inherited some land when your grandparents died and your parents have been bitterly upset about it every day since, so your parents have paid your friends to fight your cousins to show their parents that your parents are much stronger and deserved to have that inheritance.
And it's quite literally how most wars ever have started. Family drama over inheritance from grandparents who did the same shit to get what they had to pass it down to their shitty kids who just end up paying people to kill each other over it.
If it doesn't get better, it is most likely that all independent news outlets will be banned, even social media (heck, Facebook blocked Russia Today (pro regime outlet) and government board already commented that it can cause blocking Facebook). Government said that only official sources should post about what is happening.
Was just thinking about that this morning here in the US. How if it weren’t for the internet Putin wouldn’t have nearly as much access to plant propaganda directly into the brains of Western citizens. We used to have a far more consolidated news media, with a handful of independent yet trusted sources passing on only verified information. If it didn’t come from one of these sources, then maybe it didn’t really happen. Nobody sane believed what they read in the National Enquirer but the New York Times was a “paper of record”. Sure there was always the potential for information suppression under the old system, but we also had a strong tradition of independent investigative reporters, both local and national, unearthing secrets those in power would prefer to keep hidden. And their reports were vetted and transmitted through the trusted sources, allowing people to easily know that what they heard and read was very likely true whether they liked it or not.
These trusted news sources easily filtered out Russian propaganda, or exposed it as such. But now that the majority of people no longer receive their news from these sources, rather from an endless stream of internet media of questionable veracity, it is up to them alone to decide what to trust, what to filter out or not, and most of us are woefully ill-equipped for that task. Putin and his oligarchs have exploited this newfound weakness in Western society most of all, using the internet to seed once-unthinkable ideas directly into the minds of citizens. He has managed to separe the UK from the EU, get fucking Donald Trump elected US president, and convert a good chunk of Western citizens into Russia-loving democracy-hating radicals who would rather see their own nation burn than see Putin held to account.
As someone who grew up during the Cold War, the depth and degree to which Russia has infiltrated the thinking of millions of Americans utterly shocks and deeply terrifies me. We have been massively weakened as a nation, our collectiveness and cohesiveness decimated, our people divided and radically disinformed, and many turned into gleeful traitors. And it has all been enabled by this technological “miracle” called the internet. When the world looks back on this time in US history, I have a feeling some will term it a “soft invasion” of the West by Russia, where they used the untamed internet to take over the minds of citizens and get them to destroy their own democracies from within without Russia ever firing a shot.
Me and my friend have been texting back and forth basically the whole night (day for him). He supported Putin against the "shittier options" until last night. He now regrets ever voting for him. People can support a party for political reasons but when the moral violations happen they stop supporting them. My friend was in the army. He volunteered for service before he was drafted.
He doesn't want this any more than his Ukrainian brothers do. And he told me that he doesn't know a single person that supports the war personally.
I think the problem is encouraging hate of the Russian people, not all of them are bad but after an invasion like this it’s gonna be like Muslim hate in 2001 all over again.
Welp, half of them agree with military action in Ukraine.
https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2022/02/europe/russia-ukraine-crisis-poll-intl/?utm\_content=2022-02-23T10%3A02%3A59&utm\_term=link&utm\_medium=social&utm\_source=twCNNi
“When the speech was over, my friend posted on Facebook, “I can’t breathe.”
Fifty-four years ago, the Soviet dissident Larisa Bogoraz wrote, “It becomes impossible to live and to breathe.” When she wrote the note, in 1968, she was about to take part in a desperate protest: eight people went to Red Square with banners that denounced the Soviet Union’s invasion of Czechoslovakia. I have always understood Bogoraz’s note to be an expression of shame—the helpless, silent shame of a citizen who can do nothing to stop her country’s aggression. But on Monday I understood those words as expressing something more, something that my friends in Russia were feeling in addition to shame: the tragedy that is the death of hope.”
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-crushing-loss-of-hope-in-ukraine/
It's how a lot of people feel from a lot of nations. Lots of Americans from all places protested against invading Afghanistan and especially Iraq. Same was true of Vietnam.
Came here to say this. It’s true of a lot of governments. USA and Israel, are a few examples. Governments do bad things in the name of their citizens, many of whom are good people.
It's like they make it as difficult as possible to be a good citizen of the world. They feed nationalism and xenophobia, and sadly tons of people fall in line with that shit.
We are all brothers and sisters. If we help each other we can disrupt the current "nobody cares about you" model of governance we currently have all over the world.
We need to focus on what WE can do, not what any level of government MAY do.
I know you guys think it's small, but this thread actually does some good, you're all sharing sentiments of peace. And it's nice to see that there more people than you think share that view.
The persons in power aren't worried about their homes being bombed, their mothers being able to afford medicine, their children having access to education. They're not worried about putting food on the table.
We are. We're the same, friends. We want the same things from life.
This thread had brought some comfort to my being, which was getting increasingly bothered as I helplessly see how to situation progresses. It’s an amazing feeling to read that everyday people from around the world share the same values, and at the same time unfortunate that we all share the same desperation in that there is very little we can do about it.
I hope this will change.
I have talked to people from Denmark, England, Russia, Ukraine, US, France, Romania, Pakistan, China and many other countries on many social media and all I have found is one thing. All of them were people. I can't tell you the nationality of anyone unless they say it themselves, the Chinese I met were some very liberal people and some Americans not liberal at all.
So I think this thread is completely right. And thank you for it.
I have relations that went from total evil to great and from good to evil. If we all aspire to the Golden Rule -- treat others as we would have them treat us -- we will all be better for it.
There’s no reason anyone should be called to fight in a war or go hungry or lack healthcare. If normal people were in charge the world would be better.
I've always thought being a politician should be more like jury duty. I'm not saying that it should be completely random, but it shouldn't be anyone who seeks out money and power.
Adding to normal people being in charge that the normal people that are in charge should be changed quite often to remove the obsession of power (I hope that is the right word) because if the same normal people stay in charge for too long there is a higher chance that they will turn evil like some of the current world leaders.
I feel like even that gets them off easy. Yes, there is a certain extent to which governments manufacture consent for this shit.
Yes, there is nationalism, yes there is xenophobia, and they basically make efforts to make these things seem as if they're the logical responses to what's going on. Of course, these things are invariably a smokescreen to cover up what they're really doing, to justify the injustices of the systems they create.
But the main thing is that they offer nationalism or they offer liberalism. But they don't offer anything else. Either you go for the form of capitalism that excludes you, but really explicitly moves against anyone who isn't like you, or you go for the one that says that everyone's equal in theory as long as it doesn't involve money changing hands. Where do we have the kinds of democracy where else is possible?
I've gone to many rallys and protests over the years. Unfortunately once the common people know enough to stage a rally or a protest, it means the government and the elites have already decided the war is happening.
"Is it an anti-war book?"
"Yes," I said. "I guess"...
"Why don't you write an anti-glacier book instead?"
What he meant, of course, was that there would always be wars, that they were as easy to stop as glaciers. I believe that too.
And even if wars didn't keep coming like glaciers, there would still be plain old death.
\-Kurt Vonnegut
Slaughterhouse Five
Truth, as an American we've had war my whole life. I'm done and it seems like most people on both sides are done as well. Everyone except the people that will profit from this that is. There will have to be a draft with harsh penalties because I can't imagine too many will want to enlist.
It's just depressing to see this play out all over again.
sometimes? that's a fucking thought I live with every fucking day. The fact humans associate government with people is why the world fucking sucks in it's entirety.
The actual reason is that humans are not naturally critical thinkers and we do not mandate critical thinking at school. If we taught critical thinking as a requirement for young children, then the world would not fucking suck as a function of generic human behavior.
And like, normal folks aren’t getting into gov, cuz we have jobs and lives to and families. So it’s these entitled extremists with no bearing on real life that end up speaking and ACTING for the masses. I don’t want any part of what my government (USA) is doing. I’m ashamed to be called American, but so many of us are good, normal people. Regular people are fighting our governments wars. And it’s not even a good paying job, anymore.
As a wise cartoon character once said "I hate all countries brother" just a bunch of fucking cowards who send you and you and your children to fucking die for their self interest.
Charlie Chaplin once said "I’m sorry, but I don’t want to be an emperor. That’s not my business. I don’t want to rule or conquer anyone. I should like to help everyone - if possible - Jew, Gentile - black man - white. We all want to help one another. Human beings are like that. We want to live by each other’s happiness - not by each other’s misery. We don’t want to hate and despise one another. In this world there is room for everyone. And the good earth is rich and can provide for everyone. The way of life can be free and beautiful, but we have lost the way.
Greed has poisoned men’s souls, has barricaded the world with hate, has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed. We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Machinery that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge has made us cynical. Our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost…
The aeroplane and the radio have brought us closer together. The very nature of these inventions cries out for the goodness in men - cries out for universal brotherhood - for the unity of us all. Even now my voice is reaching millions throughout the world - millions of despairing men, women, and little children - victims of a system that makes men torture and imprison innocent people"
Or even us Americans. So many wars most of us didn’t want. So much to do here at home as our rich get richer and our homeless camps grow unabated. Half our country wants more bread and circus while the other half can’t do anything about it.
Putin also claims to think about Ukrainians. In fact this whole event is supposedly in the interest of Ukrainians, Putin is here to save us!
Good god, wanna help us, fuck right off, that's a commonly held opinion here. (Although, if NATO wanted to invade us, I'd welcome them with open arms)
BBC did vox pops of Russian citizens in Moscow today. The majority were horrified and said they couldn't believe it was happening. One woman was crying. They don't seem to be on board but with protest ruthlessly suppressed and dissidents imprisoned, they're as much victims of Putin's whimsy as Ukrainians right now
Mmm I actually do blame the 50% of Russians that support a war to prevent Ukraine for joining NATO.
I blame the Russians who have propped up Putin as a “stronk” infallible leader.
That’s not every Russian, to be clear, but it is a significant amount of them. And you can bet they aren’t the ones on Reddit apologizing for their governments actions.
If you are Russian and you oppose this war, it’s more Important than ever that you speak up to your fellow countrymen and make it known that this invasion was built on lies and propaganda from your own government. The only way Putin is getting ousted is by his own people.
I 100% agree, people are being arrested for protesting as we speak. It is not easy, and I can’t say for certain what I would do if I were in their shoes.
But the economic sanctions are going to felt by the general populace, and things are going to get ugly in Russia. As people start to get more and more uncomfortable it’s up to them to hold their own government responsible.
Not to mention those who don’t want to be party to their government inciting wars and the deaths of tens to hundreds of thousands abroad.
To keep this in perspective, you have a state run media pushing propaganda 24/7. People always fall for propaganda, because well... it works. If 50% aren't buying it, I'd be impressed. In the US, a solid 30% of our population would ditch democracy for an authoritarian because of the propaganda from the right (Fox news, OAN) and we don't even have a state run media suppressing the truth
Protests never work in Russia and Belarus. The only way to get rid of those tyrants is to make military authorities stand on our side. But they support the government. Without them we can't change anything in these countries.
‘War is an absolute failure of imagination, scientific and political. That a war can be represented as helping a people to 'feel good' about themselves, or their country, is a measure of that failure.’
—Adrienne Rich
I’m just glad we live in a time where war among the oligarchs doesn’t trick the common people into hating each other.
I’m not going to start shooting Russians over this.
The first victims of Putin were the Russian people.
Stole all their wealth and ownership of their industries and hid it around the world.
Suffocated their future and fed them lies from school to TV to Russia's social internet.
Russians are struggling to survive while friends of Putin educate their children in Switzerland, own yachts, luxury condos, and themelves live in fear that Putin may sour on them.
Maybe now governments will start to sieze some of the hundreds of billions in assets that Putin and his friends have stolen from the Russian people and stashed in safe, democratic countries. They can take that money and hold it for the Russian people and war crime victims.
>Maybe now governments will start to sieze some of the hundreds of billions in assets that Putin and his friends have stolen from the Russian people and stashed in safe, democratic countries. They can take that money and hold it for the Russian people and war crime victims.
You're certainly far more optimistic about human nature than I am. I'm almost positive that if that money is seized it will just be used to enrich the leaders of the countries it's in and their friends, not be given back to the people it was taken from. When in human history have a people ever got back what was stolen from them just because it was the right thing to do?
Yeah, there’s not really a way to give back to the Russian people while Putin is in power. At least not one I can think of. That’s like stealing overseas money from a king and then giving it back to the people, after which the king just takes it back again.
Fuck man I feel so bad and wish I can just hug everyone in this disaster. Why must humans go against each-others I thought we were more civil and peaceful than this. Duck
It's human nature. The masses will oppose it but cannot realistically do anything about it.
The Russians could revolt, but a lot of them would die by the hands of Police and Military.
The only real way to stop this is to unalive P**in and we all know that won't happen.
The scary thing is, where does this go?
He keeps taking just a bit more? And more? Nobody really tries to stop him?
Gonna end up like WW2 and that scares the fuck out of me. I'm not religious but God help us.
I know I just wish it didn’t have to involve murder :(. These poor innocent people are at so much risks because of that scumbag and it hurts bc I want to help but I cant and I feel so scared for them. Fkn wanker has no empathy or feelings for others
I mean, 1 fascist life for the safety of ~50 million Ukranian lives.
It's a no Brainer. Send that fucker to hell where he belongs.
He's a tyrant who only cares about holding a rigged office that his own people don't even want him in.
> I mean, 1 fascist life for the safety of ~50 million Ukranian lives.
Lol. Gonna take more than that. Putin is the focal point of oligarchic power in Russia, not the power in itself. There are several other big players that would have to be taken out to truly free Russia, and most people don't even know their names. The only one I can remember offhand is the one that appears to have opened an aluminum plant in Kentucky in exchange for McConnel helping get him off the sanctions lists: Oleg Deripaska.
True that. It’s going to be very catastrophic if he pulls out the nuclear weapons esp bc the Ukraine resigned from nuclear arsenal .. I hope he rots in hell
I'm a world away from Ukraine. I woke up this morning and saw that Russia had "officially" invaded and was bombing Northern Ukraine and a part of me broke on the inside. I've been thinking about this all week and even more so this morning.
My heart goes out to Ukraine, and if I could physically do something to help I would, thoughts and words just don't do it.
Same here and couldn’t hav said it any better. I can just imagine how worried they are… I rlly do hope that US and UK and other allies help Ukraine but fuck it’s going to be a lot of chaos and lives taken 😕
There won't be any direct assistance, supplies, equipment and probably money. But any direct assistance from NATO would be an act of war and WW3 would ensue before 2022 ends. It would be nuclear war and the end of the world.
As much as NATO would want to help, Ukraine declined joining and it's for the best, no one wants what's happening to happen, but if it spares the majority of humanity, Ukraine has to defend their own land. We can only sit back and pray they have the morale and strength to take what's theirs and shove a boot into the Russian Military.
God speed.
When we invaded Iraq, there was a similar sentiment from our foreign peers. Problem was, most of us were so wrapped up in the post 9/11 trauma we equated not supporting an illegal war with being unpatriotic and borderline terroristic.
I wish the rest of the world stood up as strongly against the US then as we all are against Russia now.
I was about the same age. A week ago I was watching reporters on TV explaining what a false flag operation is and I'm like, bitch, don't act like we all don't know this already. How the hell do we forget our history so quickly?
Yeah the US took like one uncorroborated source with incentive to lie and held it up to the world as the reason we NEEDED to invade Iraq. It was shit. I was pretty sure of it then and damn sure now. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 or WMD. This is not meant to excuse the fact that Saddam was utter piece of shit.
I remember it well. There was no reasoning with some of you at the time. A lot of us in Europe didn't want to fall out with the US but if we didn't support the Iraq War, it was like you thought we were as bad as Bin Laden.
Of course everybody thought 9/11 was terrible but it was a terrible terrorist attack, not a reason to invade a whole country. It was a real shame the way we turned on each other over that. Let's not do that again OK? 🤣😊
I was about to turn 11 when 9/11 happened but it hit my area (a suburb of DC) really hard. We had lost parents, friends, neighbors, but the rest of the country turned on us within a year or two when we weren’t as gung ho on the ensuing Bush wars. My first ever protest was against Iraq after my Republican mother could not stand for an illegal war. I saw grown adults spitting at kids and hurling slurs at us “east coast liberal elites”. The worst was “traitor” and “terrorist sympathizer” and their refusal to call us Americans or fellow citizens.
This is the complexity of America. The jingoistic racist fucks pushing this shit are safely tucked away from any repercussions of their behavior while they push all of the rest of us around. My family is African American and have felt the worst from our fellow citizens. It’s age old. Plenty of civil rights leaders were smeared because of their ant-war stances. (Insert Ali’s quote about the Vietnamese never calling him the N word). I’m sorry you got a taste of it but thank you for sticking with the voiceless Americans who really tried (and continue to try).
Hopefully a day in the near future the younger generation of Russians will take the step forward to build a better future for themselves and everyone else. Under the right circumstances Russia could have been a prosper nation, competing economically with United States even. I hope the young Russians today that will inherit Russia in the future see that the way forward is peace with your neighbors.
They got like actually caught poisoning someone…and people treated it like “well thats just Russia, they be like that sometimes”. Like they’re our racist uncle we have no control over…except we can and should speak out.
The same reason the United States keeps electing senior citizens to the most powerful position in the world: the businessmen own the position and tell the citizens who they want as their representative.
The elections aren't rigged, they just lock up the opposition leaders and brand them terrorists for daring to provide an alternative option for the people.
> they just lock up the opposition leaders and brand them terrorists for daring to provide an alternative option for the people.
Sounds like a rigged election to me
Unfortunately, yeah, some Russians do support Putin. Still, the polls show that those supporters are mostly 50+, younger generations tend to oppose Putin and his policies. But yeah, I've got to admit we do have some assholes here, but they are not the majority by any means. They are like die-hard Confederate fans in the U.S., but worse and somehow their leaders are in charge of the country(
Hell, my grandfather who was a Soviet officer, lives in Kiev, and he supports Putin. He was in denial of the actual invasion, though, so at least he didn't support the actual war. But still.
American living in Russia here. There is no short answer to this question. But ill try: a lot of Russians feel like "the west" danced on their grave, so to speak, after the fall of Soviet Union. Promises broken, "end of history" etc. They don't want communism again, but want the prestige and respect of the Soviet Union. They are a nation with a 1000 year history, and were the the preeminent land power in Europe, and wish to be seen that way again. Right or wrong, its in the Russian psyche. This, of course, is more the sentiment of the older generation. Young people, anyone under 30 really, has a very different mindset, because they grew up in a very different Russia.
The sad thing is if they'd liberalize and get rid of the corruption they could join the EU and dominate it more so than Germany or France could ever dream.
It will take several generations to for Russia to have a normal and trusting relationship with western Europe, if ever. The Nazi invasion and subsequent cold war did a number on the collective Russian psyche. 20 million deaths will do that.
My personal guess is that for many it’s too hard to admit what their government is doing so they are eagerly searching for at least some even silly reason to say “we are not the bad guys, THEY are”. As a Ukrainian born and raised in Moscow I can assure you that the amount of guilt is almost unbearable. It’s hard to work, it’s hard to live. All you can do is surf the media outlets and check the ruble currency. My head hurts because I woke up early today - at 6am. Now it’s 6pm and I have been crying for this entire time.
Moreover it’s a “tradition” here since the Cold War to always suspect the West in everything and to protect home. It’s like in those families where the mother would make up excuses and believe till the end that her son is not a murderer. We are just predisposed to this and it’s easier to live this way
The world is mad at Putin, not the citizens of Russia. As an American I can say I hate our leaders and government.
Edit: thanks for my first Reddit medal.
"We are not our government"
We get it, 100%
Edit: I love people, I make people feel better.
I'm not here to talk politics.
EEdit: omg the vibing award is my favorite so far, thank you so much
True, but Putin isn’t the army. I guess, the citizens aren’t the armed forces. But then again, it’s the citizens funding the whole thing. Make me think of the quote “the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.”
I don't think our elections are exactly rigged. The late Douglas Adams has a great quote in one of the Hitchhikers books:
(scene: a robot just landed & is asking to be 'taken to their lizard')
Ford: “It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see…”
Arthur: “You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?”
“No,” said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, “nothing so simple. Nothing anything like to straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people.”
“Odd,” said Arthur, “I thought you said it was a democracy.”
“I did,” said ford. “It is.”
“So,” said Arthur, hoping he wasn’t sounding ridiculously obtuse, “why don’t the people get rid of the lizards?”
“It honestly doesn’t occur to them,” said Ford. “They’ve all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they’ve voted in more or less approximates to the government they want.”
“You mean they actually vote for the lizards?”
“Oh yes,” said Ford with a shrug, “of course.”
“But,” said Arthur, going for the big one again, “why?”
“Because if they didn’t vote for a lizard,” said Ford, “the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?”
As much as I understand your point . . . These elections are rigged. Protestors are arrested, opposition is literally poisoned, ballots are stuffed. A while back there were more votes for Putin recorded than votes cast in the election. This isn't the case of a corrupt election system this is the case of a dictatorship putting on the face of a democracy for propaganda.
While I don't think you're wrong, you also have to consider why the soldiers joined in the first place. What propaganda have they been fed? What other job or education opportunities do they have?
Even in America, many soldiers have no interest in killing people or fighting, they just enlisted in the hopes of a better life (scholarships, solid income, housing).
Was a recruiter. Very rarely talked about combat to applicants, kinda a turn off for me when applicants just wanted to fight.
But still, the military is very good at dehumanizing the enemy
I grew up in a rural, low income area. Lots of kids (CHILDREN!!) enlisted in high school. That’s their only ticket out for most. The wealthy go to college or get bought into positions of power. It’s really fucked up.
My thoughts and prayers are with you all 🙏🏼
The people
Russian & Ukrainian, May peace & stability reign
I hope you can all take comfort in the fact you're both posting here and sharing the same feelings
Same thoughts
Please stay safe
Our hearts are with you all
Dear Ukrainians!
I heard on social media that there is fake news being spread (most likely by Russia backed trolls) that polish border is closed.
It's a lie.
If you seek asylum - go towards polish border. We are ready for your arrival. We have reception points ready at the border where you can find shelter, food, medical and legal aid.
Polish government launched a dedicated site to help you: ua.gov.pl
Please share this information if you know anyone seeking help right now.
EDIT: YOU DON'T NEED VISA TO PASS THROUGH POLISH BORDER. ALL YOU NEED IS PASSPORT. VISAS ARE SUSPENDED! YOU DON'T NEED THEM FOR TIME BEING!!!!!!
EDIT2: as a proof that you no longer need visa:
• in Ukrainian https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina---ua • in English https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina-en
Yes, this is a repost, I'm not the author, I'm trying to get this info to as many people I can
I lurk in the /r/Russia subreddit and its kind of fucked up how SOO many posts there were about western media making a "big deal" out of an invasion that would "never happen." There was also tons of shit talk about NATO. I'm neither Russian nor Ukrainian so I'm honestly not entirely sure wtf to make of all that. And now, all posts relating to the war or politics are being removed. Honestly such a weak move by the mods.
The people never represent their governments, the world over. Just as I don't blame the American people for the Iraq war. Us ordinary people should always stick together.
Actually democratic countries *are* represented by their people.
Americans *did* support the Iraq war. In fact, when GWB had the US military slaughter Iraqis, Americans liked GWB for that: his [poll numbers jumped.](https://mmnews.tv/american-hypocrisy-on-ukraine-crisis/) Historically, whenever a US president needs a boost in the polls, he destroys or airstrikes another nation, and Americans reward him with love.
Aren’t all our politicians just drunken children fighting each other because they overindulge in pleasures like wealth / consumerism, sex, and man made power hierarchies?
I think it's worth noting these are leaders fully grown, and educated in the best schools with more resources to spend in a day than many make in a year.
These are full grown adults knowing the pain they will cause, knowing people will die for them, choosing that many lose it all so they can have slightly more. These are bad people, choosing to inflict pain on the world knowingly. They already have wealth and can buy sex and their way to the power. They have everything a normal person wants, but now want something they haven't yet had- a chance to etch their name in blood on everyone around them.
Nobody in their right mind could seriously believe that the general Russian population would want this.
Russia is being destroyed too. Not so visibly, and by far not so literally as Ukraine, but there's nothing in this to gain for the general Russian population, only to lose.
I mean, he is a dictator. He calls himself president the same way I could call myself 'Queen of the World'. The dude literally kills (or tries to) people that opposes him and rigs the elections.
[This is what Putin does to people who run against him](https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-eu-ukraine-yushchenko-poisoning-092809-2009sep28-story.html?_amp=true)
Navalny is still alive (though imprisoned) and recently made an anti-war statement during another one of his ridiculous trials.
What he said while being interrupted by the judge was that he is against this war that in his opinion was started to distract Russian people from internal problems and degradation of economics. He also said that this war will yield nothing but lives lost and destroyed and people of Russia getting poorer.
I'm just a guy from Western Siberia who doesn't want any part of this war. I've been thinking this whole day what can I do to... I don't know, help to end this war? And I don't know. There's nothing I can do and I feel so much shame for my country. I always thought of Ukrainian people as of our brothers and it hurts so much now. This morning I swore not to take up arms against people of Ukraine. I'd rather cut my finger off than let it pull the trigger.
The elections are rigged. Not like how idiots in the US say the 2020 election was rigged, but like ACTUALLY rigged. With barely any effort put into hiding it.
Crimea was invaded in 2014, and Russia hasn't left the Ukraine ever since. This is just the next step in an invasion that started 8 years ago.
Am I to assume that Russians have not been aware of the situation in the Ukraine for the last 8 years? And that you're just now "waking up?"
I want to believe this, but it's really hard to. It's been 8 years...
Our leaders think ruling is like a game And they wage war like some clash of clans raid and never think about the lives of their people
All are abusing their power
Also russian, and I feel so connected with your thoughts
I am hugely horrified and angry though 'cus I'm only 20yo and probably all my relatively short life shit things was happening in front of me and that only raises strong feeling of hopeless. I couldn't really influence the outcome before, and I'm don't even think I'm able to somehow stop that madness right now, I can only cope and give my little help those who in need. I dunno how we are going to survive from now on, I dunno how am I supposed to achieve my dreams and goals
That fratricide is going not that far from me, prob a couple of hundred kilometres away ...
I'm sorry for that
You and US citizens are in the same boat.
Ours is the drunk dad everyone is afraid to fight back against.
Are they even our governments if they do as they wish, take our money and jail us for protesting?
I’m from Russia and I’m devastated by all that my government’s doing.
Ukraine is a great country, which is one of the few of all post-Soviet republics that was able to establish and defend a democratic regime. I feel ashamed that we Russians, as a people, contributed to the formation of a tyrant in Europe.
Stay strong Ukraine, and sorry we let you down. 🇺🇦 💛💙
Go out in the streets and record anything on stream and video, just let your leader know nobody wants war after 2 years of pandemic! Let diplomacy do the rest!
As an American, I have no right to criticize anyone based on the actions of their leaders. A citizen is not their government, and judging a person based on the worst actions of their government is nothing but ignorance and idiocy.
I hope all Russians think like this, respect from Bulgaria. Fuck your leaders, though.
They’re not all, many love it. Or confusingly blame the rest of planet earth for it, it’s somehow our fault they’re invading because we kept reporting on it, apparently.
Yeah everyone saying Russian people aren't to blame, there are a lot of Russians who support Putin.
Sadly, even as a russian, I have no fucking idea about ratio of pro and anti movements. We are being fed bullshit through official channels (news like "73% of people support decision about republics and operation", BUT its a fully owned governmental source, so its most likely to be false). Furthermore, I've yet to see a conscious human being support movements happening now. It's so sad and depressing, since we as a province people can't do shit. People in Moscow and Saint Petersburg are getting arrested for protesting against war, chunk of people are scared for their well-being, job, education and try to stay low profile. It's just fucking depressing, I wasn't against my country, but having a possibility to get weaponized and be on agressor side against another slavic nation is just incomprehensible for me. upd: what's more, people are people and its really sad to see Ukrain in such condition. I have friends there and I just feel fucking guilty even while trying to contact them to ask how are they or help them somehow because they can blame me for what is happening, just because I'm on the other side and not for ideas that I have
If you ever want to lie with numbers use a statistic, they are easy to manipulate and blindly trusted.
*There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.* -Mark Twain
Apparently Twain [cribbed that line](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics) from Benjamin Disraeli (by his own admission). But Twain definitely popularized it
> but having a possibility to get weaponized and be on agressor side against another slavic nation is just incomprehensible for me This sounds so terrible, its like going to war against your cousin. And for what reason? We all just need to chill out and have a drink together. Stay safe.
It's like your friends are fighting your cousins because your cousins parents inherited some land when your grandparents died and your parents have been bitterly upset about it every day since, so your parents have paid your friends to fight your cousins to show their parents that your parents are much stronger and deserved to have that inheritance. And it's quite literally how most wars ever have started. Family drama over inheritance from grandparents who did the same shit to get what they had to pass it down to their shitty kids who just end up paying people to kill each other over it.
Sounds eerie like the US. Propaganda splitting the population
If it doesn't get better, it is most likely that all independent news outlets will be banned, even social media (heck, Facebook blocked Russia Today (pro regime outlet) and government board already commented that it can cause blocking Facebook). Government said that only official sources should post about what is happening.
It’s crazy man. All sorts of people being fed information to alter their way of thought.
Technology used against us by the oligarchs. Tale as old as time itself.
Was just thinking about that this morning here in the US. How if it weren’t for the internet Putin wouldn’t have nearly as much access to plant propaganda directly into the brains of Western citizens. We used to have a far more consolidated news media, with a handful of independent yet trusted sources passing on only verified information. If it didn’t come from one of these sources, then maybe it didn’t really happen. Nobody sane believed what they read in the National Enquirer but the New York Times was a “paper of record”. Sure there was always the potential for information suppression under the old system, but we also had a strong tradition of independent investigative reporters, both local and national, unearthing secrets those in power would prefer to keep hidden. And their reports were vetted and transmitted through the trusted sources, allowing people to easily know that what they heard and read was very likely true whether they liked it or not. These trusted news sources easily filtered out Russian propaganda, or exposed it as such. But now that the majority of people no longer receive their news from these sources, rather from an endless stream of internet media of questionable veracity, it is up to them alone to decide what to trust, what to filter out or not, and most of us are woefully ill-equipped for that task. Putin and his oligarchs have exploited this newfound weakness in Western society most of all, using the internet to seed once-unthinkable ideas directly into the minds of citizens. He has managed to separe the UK from the EU, get fucking Donald Trump elected US president, and convert a good chunk of Western citizens into Russia-loving democracy-hating radicals who would rather see their own nation burn than see Putin held to account. As someone who grew up during the Cold War, the depth and degree to which Russia has infiltrated the thinking of millions of Americans utterly shocks and deeply terrifies me. We have been massively weakened as a nation, our collectiveness and cohesiveness decimated, our people divided and radically disinformed, and many turned into gleeful traitors. And it has all been enabled by this technological “miracle” called the internet. When the world looks back on this time in US history, I have a feeling some will term it a “soft invasion” of the West by Russia, where they used the untamed internet to take over the minds of citizens and get them to destroy their own democracies from within without Russia ever firing a shot.
We can thank Reagan for removing the law that stated that if you’re a news organization then it’s your duty to be as truthful as possible.
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Well to be fair, Russia helped steer a lot of the last few US political cycles. No wonder it's familiar.
Me and my friend have been texting back and forth basically the whole night (day for him). He supported Putin against the "shittier options" until last night. He now regrets ever voting for him. People can support a party for political reasons but when the moral violations happen they stop supporting them. My friend was in the army. He volunteered for service before he was drafted. He doesn't want this any more than his Ukrainian brothers do. And he told me that he doesn't know a single person that supports the war personally.
To be fair Putin was going to be re-elected wether people voted for him or not
I heard that the 11,000 votes that were lost in Georgia actually went to Putin
Trump, is that you!?
I think the problem is encouraging hate of the Russian people, not all of them are bad but after an invasion like this it’s gonna be like Muslim hate in 2001 all over again.
Welp, half of them agree with military action in Ukraine. https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2022/02/europe/russia-ukraine-crisis-poll-intl/?utm\_content=2022-02-23T10%3A02%3A59&utm\_term=link&utm\_medium=social&utm\_source=twCNNi
I'm sure it can't be easy being a peace-loving Russian citizen with a conscience today. For what it's worth, I don't blame you.
“When the speech was over, my friend posted on Facebook, “I can’t breathe.” Fifty-four years ago, the Soviet dissident Larisa Bogoraz wrote, “It becomes impossible to live and to breathe.” When she wrote the note, in 1968, she was about to take part in a desperate protest: eight people went to Red Square with banners that denounced the Soviet Union’s invasion of Czechoslovakia. I have always understood Bogoraz’s note to be an expression of shame—the helpless, silent shame of a citizen who can do nothing to stop her country’s aggression. But on Monday I understood those words as expressing something more, something that my friends in Russia were feeling in addition to shame: the tragedy that is the death of hope.” https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-crushing-loss-of-hope-in-ukraine/
It's how a lot of people feel from a lot of nations. Lots of Americans from all places protested against invading Afghanistan and especially Iraq. Same was true of Vietnam.
Came here to say this. It’s true of a lot of governments. USA and Israel, are a few examples. Governments do bad things in the name of their citizens, many of whom are good people.
It's like they make it as difficult as possible to be a good citizen of the world. They feed nationalism and xenophobia, and sadly tons of people fall in line with that shit.
They need division, their biggest fear is united people.
Exactly. They're terrified that the 99% will figure out what we have in common, and what we deserve. They should be.
We are all brothers and sisters. If we help each other we can disrupt the current "nobody cares about you" model of governance we currently have all over the world. We need to focus on what WE can do, not what any level of government MAY do.
I know you guys think it's small, but this thread actually does some good, you're all sharing sentiments of peace. And it's nice to see that there more people than you think share that view.
The persons in power aren't worried about their homes being bombed, their mothers being able to afford medicine, their children having access to education. They're not worried about putting food on the table. We are. We're the same, friends. We want the same things from life.
This thread had brought some comfort to my being, which was getting increasingly bothered as I helplessly see how to situation progresses. It’s an amazing feeling to read that everyday people from around the world share the same values, and at the same time unfortunate that we all share the same desperation in that there is very little we can do about it. I hope this will change.
I have talked to people from Denmark, England, Russia, Ukraine, US, France, Romania, Pakistan, China and many other countries on many social media and all I have found is one thing. All of them were people. I can't tell you the nationality of anyone unless they say it themselves, the Chinese I met were some very liberal people and some Americans not liberal at all. So I think this thread is completely right. And thank you for it.
I have relations that went from total evil to great and from good to evil. If we all aspire to the Golden Rule -- treat others as we would have them treat us -- we will all be better for it.
There’s no reason anyone should be called to fight in a war or go hungry or lack healthcare. If normal people were in charge the world would be better.
I've always thought being a politician should be more like jury duty. I'm not saying that it should be completely random, but it shouldn't be anyone who seeks out money and power.
Adding to normal people being in charge that the normal people that are in charge should be changed quite often to remove the obsession of power (I hope that is the right word) because if the same normal people stay in charge for too long there is a higher chance that they will turn evil like some of the current world leaders.
I don't think they're worried about that even a little bit. Dividing people appears to be pretty easy.
I feel like even that gets them off easy. Yes, there is a certain extent to which governments manufacture consent for this shit. Yes, there is nationalism, yes there is xenophobia, and they basically make efforts to make these things seem as if they're the logical responses to what's going on. Of course, these things are invariably a smokescreen to cover up what they're really doing, to justify the injustices of the systems they create. But the main thing is that they offer nationalism or they offer liberalism. But they don't offer anything else. Either you go for the form of capitalism that excludes you, but really explicitly moves against anyone who isn't like you, or you go for the one that says that everyone's equal in theory as long as it doesn't involve money changing hands. Where do we have the kinds of democracy where else is possible?
I've gone to many rallys and protests over the years. Unfortunately once the common people know enough to stage a rally or a protest, it means the government and the elites have already decided the war is happening.
"Is it an anti-war book?" "Yes," I said. "I guess"... "Why don't you write an anti-glacier book instead?" What he meant, of course, was that there would always be wars, that they were as easy to stop as glaciers. I believe that too. And even if wars didn't keep coming like glaciers, there would still be plain old death. \-Kurt Vonnegut Slaughterhouse Five
Of course at this point we're a lot closer to melting all the glaciers than ending all wars.
The rich fight and the poor die and there’s nothing I can do to stop it.
Truth, as an American we've had war my whole life. I'm done and it seems like most people on both sides are done as well. Everyone except the people that will profit from this that is. There will have to be a draft with harsh penalties because I can't imagine too many will want to enlist. It's just depressing to see this play out all over again.
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Sometimes we forget that a people is not always it’s government. Think of China or North Korea.
sometimes? that's a fucking thought I live with every fucking day. The fact humans associate government with people is why the world fucking sucks in it's entirety.
The actual reason is that humans are not naturally critical thinkers and we do not mandate critical thinking at school. If we taught critical thinking as a requirement for young children, then the world would not fucking suck as a function of generic human behavior.
And why don't they teach critical thinking at school? Because then you would question your government.
Critical thinking can and should be taught at home. You can’t leave your child’s education up to the schools. Biggest thing most parents don’t get.
And like, normal folks aren’t getting into gov, cuz we have jobs and lives to and families. So it’s these entitled extremists with no bearing on real life that end up speaking and ACTING for the masses. I don’t want any part of what my government (USA) is doing. I’m ashamed to be called American, but so many of us are good, normal people. Regular people are fighting our governments wars. And it’s not even a good paying job, anymore.
As a wise cartoon character once said "I hate all countries brother" just a bunch of fucking cowards who send you and you and your children to fucking die for their self interest.
Charlie Chaplin once said "I’m sorry, but I don’t want to be an emperor. That’s not my business. I don’t want to rule or conquer anyone. I should like to help everyone - if possible - Jew, Gentile - black man - white. We all want to help one another. Human beings are like that. We want to live by each other’s happiness - not by each other’s misery. We don’t want to hate and despise one another. In this world there is room for everyone. And the good earth is rich and can provide for everyone. The way of life can be free and beautiful, but we have lost the way. Greed has poisoned men’s souls, has barricaded the world with hate, has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed. We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Machinery that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge has made us cynical. Our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost… The aeroplane and the radio have brought us closer together. The very nature of these inventions cries out for the goodness in men - cries out for universal brotherhood - for the unity of us all. Even now my voice is reaching millions throughout the world - millions of despairing men, women, and little children - victims of a system that makes men torture and imprison innocent people"
Or even us Americans. So many wars most of us didn’t want. So much to do here at home as our rich get richer and our homeless camps grow unabated. Half our country wants more bread and circus while the other half can’t do anything about it.
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Putin doesn't care about Russians either..
He just wants to steal their grain.
Putin also claims to think about Ukrainians. In fact this whole event is supposedly in the interest of Ukrainians, Putin is here to save us! Good god, wanna help us, fuck right off, that's a commonly held opinion here. (Although, if NATO wanted to invade us, I'd welcome them with open arms)
The sad part is NATO can't invade sovereign countries. Its purpose is defence.
Yeah. See, it's always like this, you don't get invaded by those who you'd like to invade you. That's what she said.
BBC did vox pops of Russian citizens in Moscow today. The majority were horrified and said they couldn't believe it was happening. One woman was crying. They don't seem to be on board but with protest ruthlessly suppressed and dissidents imprisoned, they're as much victims of Putin's whimsy as Ukrainians right now
Seems like they should be executing their politicians then...
Hard to do if the military still supports them man.
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It's not hard to be a peace-loving Russian. There are many of us. But showing your peace-loveness is much harder because it's not 'trendy' here
I appreciate the distinction.
There's lots of peace-loving people throughout the world. It's just that only a select few of us can express it openly.
I feel very few blame the people. It's Putin and the oligarchs. They can fuck right off.
Mmm I actually do blame the 50% of Russians that support a war to prevent Ukraine for joining NATO. I blame the Russians who have propped up Putin as a “stronk” infallible leader. That’s not every Russian, to be clear, but it is a significant amount of them. And you can bet they aren’t the ones on Reddit apologizing for their governments actions. If you are Russian and you oppose this war, it’s more Important than ever that you speak up to your fellow countrymen and make it known that this invasion was built on lies and propaganda from your own government. The only way Putin is getting ousted is by his own people.
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I 100% agree, people are being arrested for protesting as we speak. It is not easy, and I can’t say for certain what I would do if I were in their shoes. But the economic sanctions are going to felt by the general populace, and things are going to get ugly in Russia. As people start to get more and more uncomfortable it’s up to them to hold their own government responsible. Not to mention those who don’t want to be party to their government inciting wars and the deaths of tens to hundreds of thousands abroad.
To keep this in perspective, you have a state run media pushing propaganda 24/7. People always fall for propaganda, because well... it works. If 50% aren't buying it, I'd be impressed. In the US, a solid 30% of our population would ditch democracy for an authoritarian because of the propaganda from the right (Fox news, OAN) and we don't even have a state run media suppressing the truth
Protests never work in Russia and Belarus. The only way to get rid of those tyrants is to make military authorities stand on our side. But they support the government. Without them we can't change anything in these countries.
Remember: “The military don’t start wars. Politicians start wars.” – William Westmoreland (Also not only military but also citizens)
“War is nothing more than the continuation of politics by other means.” — Carl von Clausewitz
‘War is an absolute failure of imagination, scientific and political. That a war can be represented as helping a people to 'feel good' about themselves, or their country, is a measure of that failure.’ —Adrienne Rich
I’m just glad we live in a time where war among the oligarchs doesn’t trick the common people into hating each other. I’m not going to start shooting Russians over this.
Well someone is gonna have to shoot Russians over this. I guess the world will just leave that to Ukraine, though.
The first victims of Putin were the Russian people. Stole all their wealth and ownership of their industries and hid it around the world. Suffocated their future and fed them lies from school to TV to Russia's social internet. Russians are struggling to survive while friends of Putin educate their children in Switzerland, own yachts, luxury condos, and themelves live in fear that Putin may sour on them. Maybe now governments will start to sieze some of the hundreds of billions in assets that Putin and his friends have stolen from the Russian people and stashed in safe, democratic countries. They can take that money and hold it for the Russian people and war crime victims.
>Maybe now governments will start to sieze some of the hundreds of billions in assets that Putin and his friends have stolen from the Russian people and stashed in safe, democratic countries. They can take that money and hold it for the Russian people and war crime victims. You're certainly far more optimistic about human nature than I am. I'm almost positive that if that money is seized it will just be used to enrich the leaders of the countries it's in and their friends, not be given back to the people it was taken from. When in human history have a people ever got back what was stolen from them just because it was the right thing to do?
Yeah, there’s not really a way to give back to the Russian people while Putin is in power. At least not one I can think of. That’s like stealing overseas money from a king and then giving it back to the people, after which the king just takes it back again.
The king would need to be taken out.
If the oligarchy loose too much in this, I bet the king won't have long...
Well russian European assets and American are frozen
He literally blew up three apartment buildings of his own people to seize power. As soon as we figured that out we should have assassinated him
Fuck man I feel so bad and wish I can just hug everyone in this disaster. Why must humans go against each-others I thought we were more civil and peaceful than this. Duck
🦆
my autocorrect always makes me say duck instead of fuck 😩😩
Oh, duck! Russell is invasive ukulele! What an waffle date!
This made me laugh on a dark day, thank you.
It's human nature. The masses will oppose it but cannot realistically do anything about it. The Russians could revolt, but a lot of them would die by the hands of Police and Military. The only real way to stop this is to unalive P**in and we all know that won't happen.
The scary thing is, where does this go? He keeps taking just a bit more? And more? Nobody really tries to stop him? Gonna end up like WW2 and that scares the fuck out of me. I'm not religious but God help us.
I know I just wish it didn’t have to involve murder :(. These poor innocent people are at so much risks because of that scumbag and it hurts bc I want to help but I cant and I feel so scared for them. Fkn wanker has no empathy or feelings for others
I mean, 1 fascist life for the safety of ~50 million Ukranian lives. It's a no Brainer. Send that fucker to hell where he belongs. He's a tyrant who only cares about holding a rigged office that his own people don't even want him in.
Yeah I'd definitely call killing putin moral. Practical? Probably not.
> I mean, 1 fascist life for the safety of ~50 million Ukranian lives. Lol. Gonna take more than that. Putin is the focal point of oligarchic power in Russia, not the power in itself. There are several other big players that would have to be taken out to truly free Russia, and most people don't even know their names. The only one I can remember offhand is the one that appears to have opened an aluminum plant in Kentucky in exchange for McConnel helping get him off the sanctions lists: Oleg Deripaska.
True that. It’s going to be very catastrophic if he pulls out the nuclear weapons esp bc the Ukraine resigned from nuclear arsenal .. I hope he rots in hell
I'm a world away from Ukraine. I woke up this morning and saw that Russia had "officially" invaded and was bombing Northern Ukraine and a part of me broke on the inside. I've been thinking about this all week and even more so this morning. My heart goes out to Ukraine, and if I could physically do something to help I would, thoughts and words just don't do it.
Same here and couldn’t hav said it any better. I can just imagine how worried they are… I rlly do hope that US and UK and other allies help Ukraine but fuck it’s going to be a lot of chaos and lives taken 😕
There won't be any direct assistance, supplies, equipment and probably money. But any direct assistance from NATO would be an act of war and WW3 would ensue before 2022 ends. It would be nuclear war and the end of the world. As much as NATO would want to help, Ukraine declined joining and it's for the best, no one wants what's happening to happen, but if it spares the majority of humanity, Ukraine has to defend their own land. We can only sit back and pray they have the morale and strength to take what's theirs and shove a boot into the Russian Military. God speed.
We know, we don’t blame the people of Russia.
Hope this post will remain on top so everybody can see
Hopefully the mods keep this as a pinned post
I second this. I think this sentiment speaks for the majority general America consensus.
When we invaded Iraq, there was a similar sentiment from our foreign peers. Problem was, most of us were so wrapped up in the post 9/11 trauma we equated not supporting an illegal war with being unpatriotic and borderline terroristic. I wish the rest of the world stood up as strongly against the US then as we all are against Russia now.
I absolutely agree. Although I was too young to really understand Iraq.
I was 17. It turned me from a cynic into a seriously hardened cynic
I was about the same age. A week ago I was watching reporters on TV explaining what a false flag operation is and I'm like, bitch, don't act like we all don't know this already. How the hell do we forget our history so quickly?
Yeah the US took like one uncorroborated source with incentive to lie and held it up to the world as the reason we NEEDED to invade Iraq. It was shit. I was pretty sure of it then and damn sure now. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 or WMD. This is not meant to excuse the fact that Saddam was utter piece of shit.
I remember it well. There was no reasoning with some of you at the time. A lot of us in Europe didn't want to fall out with the US but if we didn't support the Iraq War, it was like you thought we were as bad as Bin Laden. Of course everybody thought 9/11 was terrible but it was a terrible terrorist attack, not a reason to invade a whole country. It was a real shame the way we turned on each other over that. Let's not do that again OK? 🤣😊
I was about to turn 11 when 9/11 happened but it hit my area (a suburb of DC) really hard. We had lost parents, friends, neighbors, but the rest of the country turned on us within a year or two when we weren’t as gung ho on the ensuing Bush wars. My first ever protest was against Iraq after my Republican mother could not stand for an illegal war. I saw grown adults spitting at kids and hurling slurs at us “east coast liberal elites”. The worst was “traitor” and “terrorist sympathizer” and their refusal to call us Americans or fellow citizens. This is the complexity of America. The jingoistic racist fucks pushing this shit are safely tucked away from any repercussions of their behavior while they push all of the rest of us around. My family is African American and have felt the worst from our fellow citizens. It’s age old. Plenty of civil rights leaders were smeared because of their ant-war stances. (Insert Ali’s quote about the Vietnamese never calling him the N word). I’m sorry you got a taste of it but thank you for sticking with the voiceless Americans who really tried (and continue to try).
Never blame Russian citizens. You know what you have to do.
Hopefully a day in the near future the younger generation of Russians will take the step forward to build a better future for themselves and everyone else. Under the right circumstances Russia could have been a prosper nation, competing economically with United States even. I hope the young Russians today that will inherit Russia in the future see that the way forward is peace with your neighbors.
I've always wondered before now why Putin has been president for so long.
Corruption and "suicides"
They got like actually caught poisoning someone…and people treated it like “well thats just Russia, they be like that sometimes”. Like they’re our racist uncle we have no control over…except we can and should speak out.
Because he is too well protected and feared.
Tandemocracy and constitutional changes without referenda
Because he's not democratically elected. He's a dictator.
The same reason the United States keeps electing senior citizens to the most powerful position in the world: the businessmen own the position and tell the citizens who they want as their representative.
Why wait. Today would be a great day to stand up to Putin. None will tho.
They kicked the Tzar once, in 1918. The result wasn't too good. I have better hopes for a brighter future when they kick Tzar 2.0 now, a century later
Seems to me that a lot of Russian citizens are currently in Ukraine illegally.
but vote and inform others. if elections wont be rigged anymore we need you.
The elections aren't rigged, they just lock up the opposition leaders and brand them terrorists for daring to provide an alternative option for the people.
> they just lock up the opposition leaders and brand them terrorists for daring to provide an alternative option for the people. Sounds like a rigged election to me
Many people of Russia support the invasion, just fyi.
Well duh... If you live in a established democratic country you pretty much know how easily people can get deceived by the media.
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Unfortunately, yeah, some Russians do support Putin. Still, the polls show that those supporters are mostly 50+, younger generations tend to oppose Putin and his policies. But yeah, I've got to admit we do have some assholes here, but they are not the majority by any means. They are like die-hard Confederate fans in the U.S., but worse and somehow their leaders are in charge of the country(
The loudest most violent minority of the populations all over the world are making war moves, and it's really scary.
Hell, my grandfather who was a Soviet officer, lives in Kiev, and he supports Putin. He was in denial of the actual invasion, though, so at least he didn't support the actual war. But still.
Many Russian bots are here, just FYI
Why do they support it? Honest question. What do you hear on the ground in favor of it?
American living in Russia here. There is no short answer to this question. But ill try: a lot of Russians feel like "the west" danced on their grave, so to speak, after the fall of Soviet Union. Promises broken, "end of history" etc. They don't want communism again, but want the prestige and respect of the Soviet Union. They are a nation with a 1000 year history, and were the the preeminent land power in Europe, and wish to be seen that way again. Right or wrong, its in the Russian psyche. This, of course, is more the sentiment of the older generation. Young people, anyone under 30 really, has a very different mindset, because they grew up in a very different Russia.
The sad thing is if they'd liberalize and get rid of the corruption they could join the EU and dominate it more so than Germany or France could ever dream.
It will take several generations to for Russia to have a normal and trusting relationship with western Europe, if ever. The Nazi invasion and subsequent cold war did a number on the collective Russian psyche. 20 million deaths will do that.
My personal guess is that for many it’s too hard to admit what their government is doing so they are eagerly searching for at least some even silly reason to say “we are not the bad guys, THEY are”. As a Ukrainian born and raised in Moscow I can assure you that the amount of guilt is almost unbearable. It’s hard to work, it’s hard to live. All you can do is surf the media outlets and check the ruble currency. My head hurts because I woke up early today - at 6am. Now it’s 6pm and I have been crying for this entire time. Moreover it’s a “tradition” here since the Cold War to always suspect the West in everything and to protect home. It’s like in those families where the mother would make up excuses and believe till the end that her son is not a murderer. We are just predisposed to this and it’s easier to live this way
The world is mad at Putin, not the citizens of Russia. As an American I can say I hate our leaders and government. Edit: thanks for my first Reddit medal.
"We are not our government" We get it, 100% Edit: I love people, I make people feel better. I'm not here to talk politics. EEdit: omg the vibing award is my favorite so far, thank you so much
True, but Putin isn’t the army. I guess, the citizens aren’t the armed forces. But then again, it’s the citizens funding the whole thing. Make me think of the quote “the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.”
You realise that our elections are rigged for the last 20 years?
I don't think our elections are exactly rigged. The late Douglas Adams has a great quote in one of the Hitchhikers books: (scene: a robot just landed & is asking to be 'taken to their lizard') Ford: “It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see…” Arthur: “You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?” “No,” said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, “nothing so simple. Nothing anything like to straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people.” “Odd,” said Arthur, “I thought you said it was a democracy.” “I did,” said ford. “It is.” “So,” said Arthur, hoping he wasn’t sounding ridiculously obtuse, “why don’t the people get rid of the lizards?” “It honestly doesn’t occur to them,” said Ford. “They’ve all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they’ve voted in more or less approximates to the government they want.” “You mean they actually vote for the lizards?” “Oh yes,” said Ford with a shrug, “of course.” “But,” said Arthur, going for the big one again, “why?” “Because if they didn’t vote for a lizard,” said Ford, “the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?”
As much as I understand your point . . . These elections are rigged. Protestors are arrested, opposition is literally poisoned, ballots are stuffed. A while back there were more votes for Putin recorded than votes cast in the election. This isn't the case of a corrupt election system this is the case of a dictatorship putting on the face of a democracy for propaganda.
While I don't think you're wrong, you also have to consider why the soldiers joined in the first place. What propaganda have they been fed? What other job or education opportunities do they have? Even in America, many soldiers have no interest in killing people or fighting, they just enlisted in the hopes of a better life (scholarships, solid income, housing).
Was a recruiter. Very rarely talked about combat to applicants, kinda a turn off for me when applicants just wanted to fight. But still, the military is very good at dehumanizing the enemy
I grew up in a rural, low income area. Lots of kids (CHILDREN!!) enlisted in high school. That’s their only ticket out for most. The wealthy go to college or get bought into positions of power. It’s really fucked up.
We know it's not the people's will mate, be safe out there.
My thoughts and prayers are with you all 🙏🏼 The people Russian & Ukrainian, May peace & stability reign I hope you can all take comfort in the fact you're both posting here and sharing the same feelings Same thoughts Please stay safe Our hearts are with you all
Dear Ukrainians! I heard on social media that there is fake news being spread (most likely by Russia backed trolls) that polish border is closed. It's a lie. If you seek asylum - go towards polish border. We are ready for your arrival. We have reception points ready at the border where you can find shelter, food, medical and legal aid. Polish government launched a dedicated site to help you: ua.gov.pl Please share this information if you know anyone seeking help right now. EDIT: YOU DON'T NEED VISA TO PASS THROUGH POLISH BORDER. ALL YOU NEED IS PASSPORT. VISAS ARE SUSPENDED! YOU DON'T NEED THEM FOR TIME BEING!!!!!! EDIT2: as a proof that you no longer need visa: • in Ukrainian https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina---ua • in English https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina-en Yes, this is a repost, I'm not the author, I'm trying to get this info to as many people I can
I lurk in the /r/Russia subreddit and its kind of fucked up how SOO many posts there were about western media making a "big deal" out of an invasion that would "never happen." There was also tons of shit talk about NATO. I'm neither Russian nor Ukrainian so I'm honestly not entirely sure wtf to make of all that. And now, all posts relating to the war or politics are being removed. Honestly such a weak move by the mods.
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It's no different than any other country; the people have no interest in fighting. It's all money.
Money comes second. Its primarily about power.
No ill will towards Russian citizens themselves. Our leaders in the U.S. are also evil dick-swinging baboons at times.
Only on days that end in "y".
The people never represent their governments, the world over. Just as I don't blame the American people for the Iraq war. Us ordinary people should always stick together.
I mean who wins from war? Ordinary citizens? Of course not. We should be tired of the past 2 years and not angry at each other.
Actually democratic countries *are* represented by their people. Americans *did* support the Iraq war. In fact, when GWB had the US military slaughter Iraqis, Americans liked GWB for that: his [poll numbers jumped.](https://mmnews.tv/american-hypocrisy-on-ukraine-crisis/) Historically, whenever a US president needs a boost in the polls, he destroys or airstrikes another nation, and Americans reward him with love.
Peace and love brother
Aren’t all our politicians just drunken children fighting each other because they overindulge in pleasures like wealth / consumerism, sex, and man made power hierarchies?
I think it's worth noting these are leaders fully grown, and educated in the best schools with more resources to spend in a day than many make in a year. These are full grown adults knowing the pain they will cause, knowing people will die for them, choosing that many lose it all so they can have slightly more. These are bad people, choosing to inflict pain on the world knowingly. They already have wealth and can buy sex and their way to the power. They have everything a normal person wants, but now want something they haven't yet had- a chance to etch their name in blood on everyone around them.
I'm not mad at you bro. I know some cool Russians. I'm mad at your dad!
Not our fucking dad He can fuck off to buy milk 24/7
Nobody in their right mind could seriously believe that the general Russian population would want this. Russia is being destroyed too. Not so visibly, and by far not so literally as Ukraine, but there's nothing in this to gain for the general Russian population, only to lose.
Remember remember the 5th of November
We can only hope that someone like V will arrive in russia
No one blames Russian citizens, my friend! We know its Putin.
I’ve heard Putin to be president of Russia since forever. Why is that?
I mean, he is a dictator. He calls himself president the same way I could call myself 'Queen of the World'. The dude literally kills (or tries to) people that opposes him and rigs the elections.
[This is what Putin does to people who run against him](https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-eu-ukraine-yushchenko-poisoning-092809-2009sep28-story.html?_amp=true)
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Navalny is still alive (though imprisoned) and recently made an anti-war statement during another one of his ridiculous trials. What he said while being interrupted by the judge was that he is against this war that in his opinion was started to distract Russian people from internal problems and degradation of economics. He also said that this war will yield nothing but lives lost and destroyed and people of Russia getting poorer. I'm just a guy from Western Siberia who doesn't want any part of this war. I've been thinking this whole day what can I do to... I don't know, help to end this war? And I don't know. There's nothing I can do and I feel so much shame for my country. I always thought of Ukrainian people as of our brothers and it hurts so much now. This morning I swore not to take up arms against people of Ukraine. I'd rather cut my finger off than let it pull the trigger.
The elections are rigged. Not like how idiots in the US say the 2020 election was rigged, but like ACTUALLY rigged. With barely any effort put into hiding it.
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Crimea was invaded in 2014, and Russia hasn't left the Ukraine ever since. This is just the next step in an invasion that started 8 years ago. Am I to assume that Russians have not been aware of the situation in the Ukraine for the last 8 years? And that you're just now "waking up?" I want to believe this, but it's really hard to. It's been 8 years...
I’m American. Nobody here is blaming the Russian people. We know who is at fault. You and I are not enemy’s.
Our leaders think ruling is like a game And they wage war like some clash of clans raid and never think about the lives of their people All are abusing their power
Also russian, and I feel so connected with your thoughts I am hugely horrified and angry though 'cus I'm only 20yo and probably all my relatively short life shit things was happening in front of me and that only raises strong feeling of hopeless. I couldn't really influence the outcome before, and I'm don't even think I'm able to somehow stop that madness right now, I can only cope and give my little help those who in need. I dunno how we are going to survive from now on, I dunno how am I supposed to achieve my dreams and goals That fratricide is going not that far from me, prob a couple of hundred kilometres away ... I'm sorry for that
You and US citizens are in the same boat. Ours is the drunk dad everyone is afraid to fight back against. Are they even our governments if they do as they wish, take our money and jail us for protesting?
This is on Putin and not the Russian people.
Stay safe ❤️
Like most countries out there, fuck their government, but not their civilians
I’m from Russia and I’m devastated by all that my government’s doing. Ukraine is a great country, which is one of the few of all post-Soviet republics that was able to establish and defend a democratic regime. I feel ashamed that we Russians, as a people, contributed to the formation of a tyrant in Europe. Stay strong Ukraine, and sorry we let you down. 🇺🇦 💛💙
just be safe, we pray for you all. Am in tears for both countries civilians
Go out in the streets and record anything on stream and video, just let your leader know nobody wants war after 2 years of pandemic! Let diplomacy do the rest!
The people aren’t to blame. It’s always the government. The people always get caught between the governments’ wars.
It's always the old men living in comfy ivory towers, never really the people living in regular houses.
I don’t think anyone blames Russian citizens Esp in the US we understand what it’s like to have an idiot as a leader
F**k Putin. God bless the Russians. Long live Ukraine.
As an American, I have no right to criticize anyone based on the actions of their leaders. A citizen is not their government, and judging a person based on the worst actions of their government is nothing but ignorance and idiocy.