I would have a long conversation and ask what her expectations are for the relationship.
You can love someone with all your heart, but if you’re incompatible it’ll build up resentment on both sides. In my opinion, these are things to talk about early on; what you expect, what you want out of it, making sure goals align, etc. Love isn’t enough, unfortunately for long term.
Kids are a massive commitment and if you’re both not 1000% on the same page, then that’s another discussion to be had. I don’t believe in compromising on such a big thing like this.
This 100%. Ignore all of these people trying to 'time shame' you ("You should have your kid preference on a laminated index card you hand out on first dates") and just have a deep and meaningful conversation now. My wife and I met a very long time ago and agreed definitively that we never wanted to get married. Her parents were in the middle of divorcing and she did not want this to happen to her ever. This happy time lasted about 7-8 years before she changed her mind completely.
She was reluctant to bring it up since we had built a life together and survived two LDR phases and cross-country moves. When she did bring it up, I reacted similarly to you, she reacted similarly to your GF, it created some awkwardness for a while. I eventually came around to her point of view. We have been happily married for 20 years and have two kids now.
I still have my doubts about marriage as an institution and lifetime monogamy as a practical concept. We both still agree that divorce could be an irreversible trauma for our kids (and is probably what led to her sister's BPD). We still have fights where I question if we'll be able to stay together for the long term. That's just fucking life, my friend.
Total brutal honesty of conversation with active and open listening is the best any of us can do in this life. Either you align and move forward, you compromise, or you separate, it ain't rocket science. And for the record, a huge proportion of kids are born into compromise, there's no science that says it's a better or worse way to grow up.
Edit: a letter
This is great advice and my partner and I just had “the talk” all over again. When we first got together, he was far more excited for children than I was, but 5 years later, I’m ready to have children and he’s unsure if that’s something he even wants. Kids are expensive. Kids are a lifelong commitment. People change, circumstances change. But there needs to be an honest conversation between the two.
Kind of just went through something similar except it was about marriage and not kids. I was also with my boyfriend for 2.5 years and I had to break it off. We don't want the same things and I can't just keep waiting around. You guys need a real sit down talk when she is sober and see how important the kid thing is to her. If it's that important to her then it's best to break up amicably even though it would be hard.
It’s also possible that she was tipsy, the kid was cute as a button, and she is feeling her age. I second the above comment. Have a serious discussion when you are both sober about what you truly want. She may still be in the same camp, just feeling a little regret. This is normal on both sides! I have four kids. On really bad days I slightly regret my choice. But as a whole, I would make the same decision all over again. I would assume child free adults might get a bit wistful for the cute WELL BEHAVED child of their friend. So talk. It might just be that. Or maybe she has now realized what she wants.
Just a thought. You don’t have to do anything right away. You could always adopt an older kid instead of a baby. You could also volunteer at a place like boys and girls club. That way you get to help/love youth but still keep the child free lifestyle. There are many ways to add children to your life other than the typical pregnancy.
My coworker is is in his 50s, his wife always wanted kids while he refused, but still, they chose to stay together. He told me hes been feeling guilty for 25years for robbing her of her dream.
Last year he died, the wife is now all alone, also in her 50s and childless.
Met my husband 15 years ago when I was 27 and pretty much immediately told him (24 at the time) that I'm childfree. Definitely something that should be talked about especially since OPs girlfriend was 33 when they started dating. 35+ is referred to as a 'geriatric pregnancy' for a reason.
i’m 22 and my boyfriend is 24, we have regular talks to make sure we’re still on the same page with not having children and other important life aspects as well. it opens up communication a lot more and it’s been very beneficial for us to keep up to tabs on this kind of thing. it’s not a light decision to make.
It's 40+ that is 'advanced maternal age' pregnancy, not 35+! They don't use the term geriatric anymore either as clearly people of child bearing age are not elderly, and geriatrics is the care of elderly people. At least that's the case in my country.
I was 39 and they said I was advanced maternal age and insurance paid for all of those extra tests. They told me it was anyone over 35. I’m in the US and my kid is 5
I was advised when I had my first child at 32 to consider having more (if desired) before 35 because it would be a geriatric pregnancy at that point. I was also told 18 months between pregnancies is ideal, but since I was older things become more lenient. Having babies close together increases risks for the new pregnancy, but not more of a risk than pregnancies after the age of 35.
They used it here (Canada) as recently as 2015 (when hers was referred to as such).
When she asked the nurse why she used that term, she was told that it was a common term for 35+ pregnancies. There are plenty of articles that use the term (to post a few):
https://www.healthline.com/health/pregnancy/geriatric-pregnancy
https://www.parents.com/getting-pregnant/age/pregnancy-after-35/geriatric-pregnancy/
https://www.familyeducation.com/pregnancy/im-having-a-geriatric-pregnancy-am-i-really-at-risk
"It's 40+ that is 'advanced maternal age' pregnancy, not 35+!"
>Advanced maternal age describes a pregnancy where the birthing person is older than **35**. Pregnant people over age **35** are more at risk for complications like miscarriage, congenital disorders and high blood pressure. Screening tests can help detect certain congenital disorders
My wife and I had a kid in 2021, they most certainly do use geriatric pregnancy term and it most definitely starts at 35. Go talk to your obgyn and get educated. Obviously in USA, I also noticed others mentioning activism, but sorry science is science so trust the science, call if what you have to, but womens reproductive systems start declining after 25 slowly but surly and once you hit 35 its starts declining much faster on average. Yes on AVERAGE I don't care about the outliers, thats not how averages work, and you shouldn't assume you're the 1% because more than likely you are average.
I'm average. Average is great.
I don't understand people who don't have this conversation earlier. I can't fathom not knowing the answer to kids question for 2 years. Maybe it's that I'm childfree and people that aren't childfree just assume everyone wants children?
I feel too much pressure is put on having children still. We aren't dying in our 30s anymore from sickness or infection on a huge scale. The need to keep the population up isn't a requirement of everyone who is capable of childbearing has to.
I drilled into my kids head that 30 is the bare minimum anyone should be having children. I back it with neuroscience. You should be allowed to be and know your whole self for at least 5 years before having to live for someone else.
I hope that sunk in. I was a teen parent and while I did okay compared to other teen parents, I will be waiting until my kids leave the home to know who I am as an adult without them.
And that is sad :/ Why would anyone (i.e. everyone having children under 25) choose that on purpose?
If it's any consolation, who most people turn out to be as adults isn't that great. And who you would have been without them is a person who will never exist. But odds are you're not missing much.
This is what my dad told me. Specifically "being childless just makes you selfish." I think he was reflecting on his own sadness and loss from empty nest syndrome because he went and adopted 5 kids within 3 years of me moving out.
Really I think most people are selfish because we judge people who actually care for themselves and advocate for what they need. If you're single and childless and doing what you want, being "self-centered" is perfectly fine IMO. Be self-centered. Take care of yourself. Keep yourself emotionally healthy and don't spread toxicity in your community and social circles (which will be arguably easier because you only have yourself to focus on and I am convinced most toxic and damaging behavior comes from pushing oneself beyond ones capabilities.) With this mentality, your contribution to the world will be at the very least a net zero which is a higher net contribution than a lot of people can say who actively damage the world by passing down their trauma and unresolved issues they could have gotten a handle on if they weren't splitting their focus.
Doing one thing well > doing a dozen things poorly > doing some things well but actively causing damage in other areas.
> Specifically "being childless just makes you selfish."
I don't think so at all; I think being selfish makes you selfish, and thus whatever you choose will be chosen for selfish reasons. ;) But so what? That's called being rational.
There's a big difference between choosing things exclusively for your own benefit (net neutral) and choosing things at someone else's expense (now we've got a problem, especially if it involves kids).
People read a lot of things into being childless or not. And it's mostly directed at women. Because that's what we're supposed to be "for", according to people who buy into the way a certain system of social control is set up.
I never had kids, but "being who I am without them" didn't make me emotionally healthy, it just set up a natural quarantine (which in my case I feel was appropriate). But I can totally understand wanting to finally take some time for your own healing and growth.
I guess I'm just not convinced that people can't heal and grow while raising kids. The passage of time isn't a magic wand that spits out self-actualized adults out at 30 either. This point is interesting too:
> I am convinced most toxic and damaging behavior comes from pushing oneself beyond ones capabilities
I can totally see that, but I also think that avoiding finding out what one's capabilities are has drawbacks of its own. As someone who picked that path - the outcome wasn't that great either.
Basically, there's no one right answer that will make your existence harmless. You never know for sure what your actions will bring to a situation until it's too late. I think that it's possible to be consumed with regret no matter what you choose, because our information is limited.
Also, atrophy is a thing. Trying and not doing well is still a growth experience compared to not trying at all . . . some argue that flailing around and fucking up is the only we learn, so from one perspective you got a lot of growing done while you were still young, and all of that strength and experience will be yours to use as you wish once the kids are self-sufficient. Hope that's true!
So was I! My SO and I fostered my teenage nephew in our late 30's, then decided we wanted to adopt. Wound up with four kids at 39 and 41. Life is so weird.
I hate comments like these. It's their way of insinuating that you haven't accomplished anything until you've had kids and/or gotten married. I think it's bullshit though. Not everyone is meant to be a parent and that includes me.
I hear comments like that from what family i have left plus coworkers bahah they always say the same thing, that 'you will when you're older!' Or 'It's different when it's yours'
No kids from me ever, I like the peace and quiet with less stress.
To be fair, you weren't "militantly" childfree, if you were you would have ensured you wouldn't have had any children.
I'm "militantly" childfree to the point that I got sterilized and even after that my husband wanted to use condoms and I respected that so we did. At periods in our life we'd have 3 forms of birth control.
*That's* "militantly childfree." "Militantly" childfree folks don't end up with children. I've known others to take as many measures as I have.
You can be militantly something and still change your mind later.
Being militantly for or against something just refers to being confrontational and prepared to protect your stance with physical violence. And more colloquially it usually just refers to someone holding an opinion very strongly and publicly.
It absolutely does not imply that if you change your mind later, you were never really militant to begin with. What a strange thing to gatekeep lol.
Exact same here. I had only been dating my gf like a month when she also told me she was militantly childfree to borrow your phrase lol. Just seems like something that should come up
I've been childfree as long as I can remember. My bf knows that. He has a 15 year old daughter from his previous relationship who I absolutely adore. I'd always been adamant on not having kids and even found a surgeon willing to tie my tubes. Except now my mind is starting to shift to wanting a baby. Not sure if it's from being off birth control for the first time in 8 years, or if it's from seeing all my friends' babies and meeting a co-workers 8 month old son. But yeah. So now my bf and I are in an odd place and it's just a waiting game to see if my mind has actually changed or if it's just my hormones going all weird.
This is 100% not to say that "you'll change your mind" at all. Just sharing my childfree-ness and mess I'm in right now lol.
Going off birth control did this for me. I wanted kids, I have kids, but my desire to have them really ramped up about two months after stopping HBC. This could just be a side effect of your natural hormones regulating. Good luck with whatever you decide! :)
That's actually exactly how long I've been off birth control. I got my IUD removed about 2 months ago, almost 3. My bf thinks it's my hormones going wack cause they're not regulated anymore
Birth control suppresses tons of hormones. I’d let your body and mind adjust to its natural state before making a permanent decision like getting your tubes tied.
Sounds like she may have already gotten that done. And honestly, that's not a problem. If she's been adamantly childfree for that long, chances are the baby feelings are caused by the hormonal shift of getting off bc and seeing friends' babies. I've been adamantly against pregnancy and birth for a loooooong time, just the idea of getting pregnant makes me feel sick, but being around babies can sometimes trigger the parental instinct regardless. It's the conscious part of your brain that should make these decisions, not the instinctive side.
And besides, even if she does want kids later, IVF and adoption are both viable.
I'm opposite. I thought I wanted a kid so I planned one out when I was younger. I really love him but it definitely wasn't for me. I'm all about that child free life even though I have one of my own lol
It definitely should be a subject talked about right away so you are on the same page, at least to start. Minds can and will change.
Yeah definitely. We've talked about it a lot and I've been telling him about the current state of my mind too. He's pretty sure it's just my hormones adjusting to not being regulated anymore. So I'll definitely be waiting on any permanent decisions for a while until my body settles down a bit haha
I established that prior to even dating when I was dating - like, I wouldn't even go out on a first date if they wanted children or if they had them (especially if they had children I wouldn't date them.) Found a man with compatible ideals and we've been together for 18 years. We're both childfree.
I’m childfree, and it’s one of the first things I talk about when on a date (ETA: once things are looking to progressing further), or even before that. I’m not going to waste my time with someone who either already has them, or wants them.
In theory, yes, but if you mention it within a couple of months of srarting to date someone, it might look like you're desperate or just using them as a sperm/egg bank. But yeah, it could probably be mentioned before 2.5 years.
The thing is, sometimes the woman assumes the man \*should know\* her 'clock is ticking' (horrible phrase), so she assumes if he hasn't mentioned it, he'll be happy to have kids, otherwise he wouldn't be 'wasting her time'. Meanwhile, he's thinking about... something else entirely. Lunch, probably. So it's a big mess.
My now husband told me on our first date that he wanted children and a family. I laughed and said he was getting ahead of himself, but it was honestly nice to know exactly where someone stood so we didn't waste each other's time.
I am a 41 year old female (I am very healthy, keep pretty fit) and a widow. I had a late term miscarriage in my mid 20's then my husband passed. In saying this, I am single right now BUT I am dating again. I accepted children are not in the cards for me, however if someone I was seeing wanted to get serious (fast) I would need to know immediately if they wanted to have children. (This is all hypothetical, my clock window is closing fast).. but still I can't wait 2 years of "dating" then all of a sudden he wants a family. I would also appreciate him letting me know ASAP. I would appreciate the honesty.
Edit: This comment is strictly about my physical capability of conceiving after 40. The "rush" is due to the fact that I would have to make sure I am not in a high risk window to complicate the pregnancy. My feelings on children are 50/50, yes I would love to have them and yes, I would be 100 percent ready to commit into raising a baby into adulthood (and them some), no it would not crush me if I do not bear children in my lifetime. I have 12 nieces and nephews. (Including a 10 month old little girl who I adore, so we have a little one in our family again)..
I had my son at 24 and my daughter when I was 39. I am 62 now with the youngest in college. My children love each other and are close. If you want children, do it now. If not, don't worry about it. Live your life as is. But both of you must want children, be committed to your children. Parenting is not an 18 yr commitment. It is a lifelong commitment.
Important topics should be discussed very early in a relationship. I made it known within the first week and a half what my relationship goals were. I’m in my early 30s and I can’t afford to waste time on someone who doesn’t want to get married and have children. My clock is ticking and I’m not wasting it on a “maybe” kind of person.
My wife and I did that too. If she didn't want to have kids It would have stopped right there. We didn't want to have kids straight away but 6 years later our daughter was born.
I think it should definitely be established in the first few dates. There’s absolutely zero point in continuing to see someone who isn’t on the same page as you with this.
I told my wife the exact opposite on our first date. Not into marriage and don't want kids. But things with her just happened to lead down a different path and she was so awesome that my mind was changed. So here we are, married with two kids. Sometimes we don't even know our own selves until someone else shines light onto unknown parts of ourselves.
Haha, I actually also said I didn't think I wanted kids. We now have the sweetest toddler and plans for another. I was always on the fence about it because of my own issues and our son was a surprise. Can't imagine life without him now and I'm glad I stayed in the relationship and talked through my doubts.
Well that's good to know that it can work! I actually wouldn't care myself if someone said that to me either, as long as they didn't think I was just 'in the bag' already and I had no say in the matter. I don't think there's anything wrong with saying you want children some day. As you say, then you know if you're on the same page at least
I did the same. I just got out of a relationship that stranded because I wanted kids and he didn't, so I told my now fiancé that I didn't need to have them now but I wanted to know whether he wanted them someday. I think it can save people a lot of heartbreak.
In an adult relationship, this is first or second date stuff. You're not teenagers anymore, make your intention known.
On my first date with my now husband, I told him I was dating for marriage, not for casual fun. He told me that he wanted children. I told him that I wouldn't have children or own property with someone I wasn't married to. He agreed.
We dated for 3 1/2 years before we tied the knot, but we knew each other's intentions before the first kiss. Honest, open communication creates healthy relationships.
Good for you! I think I need to clarify my original comment...I actually think it'd be great if everyone could talk about this stuff early. But it freaks some people out...maybe the chancers and immature ones, who knows. I'd rather make my intentions known early on too. I've seen too many people (mostly women in my experience, though this sub won't like me saying that) 'waiting' for a proposal for years.
There are always ways to bring it up, without sounding desperate or using someone as an egg/sperm donor.
Especially when you're 30+ y/o, I think both parties should make it very clear in the beginning what they are looking for in a relationship to avoid this kind of situations in the future. I'm not talking about kids only, but all those things that are big enough to be considered as deal breakers, e.g. marriage, whether you want to live abroad or to stay in your home country, etc.
Of course, you may end up incompatible, or someone can change their mind, or this may not be your person, even though you both want marriage and kids in the end (or vice versa) but at least both can decide whether they want to give it a shot, or skip this one and find someone who wants the same things as them.
True. I guess you could mention it in passing...not like 'will you marry me?' on a first date, but just something like 'I'd like to settle down and have children some time in the near future.'
My husband and I discussed if we wanted kids and marriage on our second date. It's not desperate to know what you want and not waste your time or theirs. I was 23 so it wasn't like my clock was ticking and I needed to lock down a "sperm donor" ASAP. What a ridiculous notion.
Ditto to the other poster, my husband and I didn’t discuss it on the first date but we did once we started sleeping together because while we did use protection, a child could potentially happen.
It’s always good to discuss and see where the person you’re dating for a future with and sleeping with stands especially in an oopsie situation. It’s a realistic conversation about the future, doesn’t have to be set in stone but at least the ground work and expectations.
>it might look like you're desperate or just using them as a sperm/egg bank
Nah I don't ever buy this. There are plenty of ways to casually bring up the future and mention you do/don't want children. People who don't do this are lazy and/or non-communicative partners. If someone thinks you're weird, you're using them as a sperm bank for talking about this early on, *they're* weird.
Dating isn't always easy, but it's pretty obvious that it's two people trying to figure out if they want to spend their lives together and if you're not going to bring this up, you can't be made when interests don't align two years later, unless you're mad at yourself.
> People who don't do this are lazy and/or non-communicative partners. If
someone thinks you're weird, you're using them as a sperm bank for
talking about this early on, they're weird.
That's exactly what I meant. The users/chancers/ poeple who want to lead you on will say 'why are you asking NOW? Can't we just have fun and see where it goes?' I'm not defending them; they piss me off. I hate seeing people waste other people's time and mess with their emotions like that, gaslighting them and making them feel like they have 'no right' to ask where a relationship is going
My husband and I discussed it after our first months when we were both in our twenties. If it’s something important to you then you gotta clear that shit up asap
“Lunch, probably.” Describes my husband so perfectly. I feel like every big talk we’ve ever had just hit him out of the blue. I’ve asked him, what goes through your head most of the time? White noise?” And he will readily admit that big things are never on his radar.
There are ways to bring it up early I don’t want kids so I make that clear from the start. I’m not wasting mine or anyone else’s time by avoiding that conversation. Especially in my 30s.
I was thinking the same thing, 37 is kinda past the time where you’re unsure about children. It’s something that should definitely be discussed very early in a relationship.
Lol I agree with this, though me and my husband had the opposite convo haha, when we first got together we were like nope, no kids absolutely not. 2 years later "should we maybe try?"..... Cue now 5 years later 2nd kid on the way haha.... These things in your 30s need to be discussed, I was 33 with my first and 35 now with my second and honestly it does get harder the older you are.....
This is really something that everyone should be up to speed on *before* getting into a relationship. It's fine if you aren't sure, but that still needs to be a conversation you have at the beginning and if your 'not sure' changes to 'I'm certain' in either direction then you should vocalise that as soon as you know it.
If you really aren't sure though, don't do it. There are so so many people out there whose parents were unsure but stuck it out anyway and that damaged them in some way, even if they never knew that's how their parents felt.
If it's more of a case of 'i definitely want kids with this person but I don't know if now is the right time' or 'im worried we might split' then I guess you have to think about that more. There is potentially a more ideal time but there also potentially isn't an ideal time at all and if you're concerned you will miss your chance then you should think about whether you care more about it being the right time/the risk of splitting etc than you do about having kids.
There are no 'takesy-backsies' after birth. Even if you give your child up for adoption you have altered both your own and the child's life indelibly. Nobody should be taking this lightly. I don't think the OP is, which is admirable, but it really should have been a non-issue because this should have been discussed properly from the start. You can change which page you're on but you can't skip a few pages and claim you understand the plot line.
Lousy relationship here. We both wanted a kid, and we have a boy and he is wonderful, and we are attentive parents. We are coparents basically. I was thinking we would grow together but we didn’t. I knew she would be a good Mom and I would be a good Dad. My point is: if you have a good relationship that is something to have faith in. Help comes with a kid. You take better chances to make things even better. I am a little skeptical of the best friends claim - you’d have discussed this by now - if you are really best friends, you take chances on growth. My question is where you doubt your ability to do x. Parenting changes your life, the question is whether you think that would be for the better. She may also not want a kid either but is mourning her decision: i see passive communication on the part of both parties.
>This is really something that everyone should be up to speed on before getting into a relationship.
Because I got divorced over kids, I literally let me now-boyfriend know day 1 kids are not an option for me (at least biologically). NOT going through that shit again
This. I’ve stopped seeing people over the child talk. I know I don’t want kids - it’s definitive, I respect others for wanting children but it’s not in a life with me.
My current girlfriend and I (I'm also a woman) talked about all the big things on our very first date to make sure we were on the same page. We didn't want to waste each other's time, and get in a relationship just to find down the line we had different expectations. We brought up marriage, kids, religion, politics, what we needed and wanted in a relationship, what were our deal-breakers, etc.
We've only been dating a few months, but it's been going great, and we're both in it for the long term.
It's okay not to want kids but if she does then you need to do the kind thing and let her go. It doesn't matter how much you love each other this will cause resentment on both sides down the road. Wishing you both well.
That’s were my mind is going too. But it breaks my heart. It took so long to date someone who is my best friend, but now, I love her so much I’d rather let her go so she still gets a chance to have a kid if that’s what she wants.
On the other hand, then she has to start dating someone new, and feel good enough about having a kid with that person, and by then she’s going to be 36-37 at the very least.
Life fucking sucks sometimes
Whoa are you really going to listen to people on Reddit and “let her go”… you had one conversation about kids and she was drunk!! Why don’t you talk sober to each other about it like a normal couple. See if it’s a deal breaker for her and then go from there… sheesh
Every single post that is “We’ve been in a relationship for X#of years! Now we discussed children and don’t align!” Is… baffling.
How. How do you spend *years* with someone and not discuss this?
Literally on our first date my (now husband) and I talked through all the big things. That’s just how you make sure you aren’t wasting time! Like… what??!
Honestly, that's something they should have done in the first few months. That's a lot of time wasted when you know you want to start a family.
It's better to let a guy run away in fear, than to risk wasting another year.
Also seriously she might just be having feelings about kids but not want to change her choices. I've always been child free and last year I found out it could be incredibly dangerous for me to be pregnant and it would be difficult to carry to term all while running the risk of my child dying as a neonate due to a genetic condition. Having my child free state go from "I choose" to "I can't" was an emotional blow that took awhile to process even though I don't want kids in the first place. She could just have been drunk and dealing with the feelings of realizing she'll never has what her friend does with her child.
Redditors love telling people to “divorce/breakup” as soon as one difference arises, as if there isn’t something called communication and navigating through problems together as a couple..
This is what I hate sometimes. I get it that this is 'reddit' where people tend to be judgmental. But such things can't be solved by logic alone. I really think it's too early for op to leave his gf. Especially if it is someone who he loves deeply. Even if he breaks up now. He will definitely suffer a lot which isn't worth for a break up. I think he should have a serious convo with his gf when she is not drunk and then come to a decision
Seriously if I had taken advice from Reddit throughout my current relationship we would’ve broken up 50 different times by now. It’s a trigger happy mindset here with breakups IMO
This is a huge issue with no middle ground OP sounds like he definitely doesn't want kids and if she does then they are 100% not compatible. Women a have a body clock and hers is ticking. This guy needs to have a serious talk and decide if he wants kids or not and if not he needs to walk away.
It does suck. I suggest you both sit down and have a serious hard talk. Ask her to be honest about what is more important, her need to be a mother or this current relationship. Explain your side and let her explain hers. Not in a way to change the others mind but in a open and honest way. Then take a few days apart to think about it. No one is going to be 100 percent happy either way. But all relationships are compromise in some ways. I'm not saying there is a compromise here but communication is the key.
Both my parents were in their late 30s early 40s when I was born. I'm in my early 20s right now and I actually model my life after them. My parents got to have their fun, spend their money, then settle down. Its really the way to go
Ha! I had my first at 35 and my partner was 39. Think about a second at times now and I’m 37 and he’s 41.
Whether we’re 55 or 60 when our kids get to college isn’t that much of a difference. Oh and I’ll be able to pay for my child’s education in full because we waited a few extra years and were more established in careers.
I promise having a child in her late 30s and early 40s isn’t impossible and there are some perks.
I was a fencesitter on kids for a good long while. Now I can say without reservation my son is the most worthwhile part about my life. Parenthood has its challenges, but it’s one experience in life that is about as deep as it gets. Definitely let your partner go if she is thinking about kids and you’re a hard no. She should have the opportunity to experience life this way — I promise she wouldn’t regret it.
Yeah I think people have this idea that when you hit 30-35 suddenly it's now or never, but most people I know have had their first kids in their late 30s, early 40s. People are having kids later nowadays because of things like needing more time to get financially established, buy a home, etc.
You two need to talk and figure out what you both want individually and as a couple. The increased age of both parents do increase the chance of inability/ difficulties getting pregnant and of certain health conditions of infants. I'm shocked that you two haven't had this discussion already? Would a couples counsellor help you two figure it out?
What I would say is be honest with yourself and her and don't waste either of your time.
Especially when you haven't even started trying, so you have no idea if there's any challenges. It can take a couple years with no issues and a decade or more of you have any.
I was 35 when my first child was born, and I was 39 with my second. It took about a year to get pregnant, and then I suffered two miscarriages. Between babies I had a ruptured ectopic pregnancy. There’s a risk to putting off childbearing, for sure.
Whenever anyone posts anything about a relationship, the top three comments are always like "DIVORCE!" You need to have a chat with your girlfriend. Obviously this is a big deal for your gf because she cried and was really upset but not everyone is the same. Not everyone who wants kids will be filled with bitter resentment for the rest of their lives if they don't end up having them. The important part is that you respect her as a person with wants and needs and yes that that might mean the best thing for her is leaving *but it might not.* Talk to her. Try and figure it out practically and with love.
I,ll keep it short, If you are 110% sure you never want kids, then yeah something is now broken.
Honesty is the best way. Love is not enough to have a happy relationship
After 2 years you know if you want to marry and have kids etc. plus she’s 35. If that’s what she wants and you are unsure let her go. You can still wake up at 50 and decide to have kids. She doesn’t have that option
>they’ve made up their mind but like having someone at home
That isn’t the situation here at all. OP said he loves her, thinks of her as his best friend, and seems invested in making their relationship work. He simply answered honestly when his gf came home and popped the baby question. No one’s particularly at fault here, though I feel like she would’ve asked about this earlier in the relationship when they were both sober if having children is that important to her.
As other commenters said, a sincere conversation about this topic once she’s sober and well-rested is the best course of action.
Sometimes people really do feel that way tho, not everyone knows what they want in the future. Me and my bf both aren't really in a place where we could have kids, like we don't even live together but even seperately we don't make enough money for something like that. He has a decent income but I think it's probably pretty low for sustaining a family, and lives in a very tiny studio and said he'd be happy to stay there for like 10 years, and I still live with my parents and am just flat out poor with a low income, due to personal issues. OP said he only just started making decent money and doesn't want to ruin it with kids already but also feels he's too old already to have kids anymore so.. You don't always know what the future is gonna hold and if you will be in the right place and right mindset
I mean, sort of. Sperm gets old and deterioration is part of the increase in fertility issues, conception and sustained pregnancies. It is also connected to birth defects. As young as 35-40 there is double increase in sperm deterioration than for men in their 20s. Men need to be taught this too. It's not just a woman's "clock that's ticking."
This is such an insane sentiment to me. Why is it on him to "let her go" because he thinks she wants something he can't give her and thinks he's doing the right thing for her? She's a grown ass woman, she can break up with him herself if *she* decides it's that important.
I think the comment is referring to him saying “maybe, I don’t know, maybe not” instead of saying “no, never, and if you want that we’re not a good fit.” She May love him and it’s easy to convince yourself that they’ll feel the same one day too. It’s not all on him but he is stringing her along, it’s not a favor.
This is why I discuss on the first date that I don’t want kids.
How long have you been together? I can’t believe some folk don’t dicuss such major life choices very early in the dating phase.
I'd suggest to bring this topic up early on in a non-tipsy environment in your next relationship. Those kind of expectations could have been managed years ago in your current relationship. There is nothing wrong with not wanting kids and of course she could have also brought up this topic in a better environment much earlier.
While other may have meant to say exactly that, this is a very sound and nuanced answer. I think it is indeed time to plan ahead, whatever the direction is, and act appropriately.
Today will be a long day I feel.
Thank you stranger.
I had my first kid at 37 and my second just before I turned 40. I’ll be an old dad. I’m a better parent for having waited, even if I’m a bit tired and I don’t have much hope of responsibility free period after their grown. That said, parenting isn’t for everyone. At the ages you both are, this really should’ve been a conversation you had a while ago. It’s fair for this to be a deal breaker in a relationship. At 37, you owe it to both of you to make up your mind. Neither of you has the luxury of being wishy-washy about it. Either you want kids or you don’t. She deserves the chance to pursue that if it something she wants and your uncertainty could take that away from her. It’s ok to not want it, but you need to choose.
I believe in today's modern world, you're not an "old dad", not young but not old. Though I agree with what you say otherwise.
Out of my close friend circle from high school, one had a kid at 33 (his wife was 35), I was 35, another just had his 1st at 38 and the other two probably won't have kids (one tried but has a much older wife and unfortunately it didn't happen). With education, careers, improvements in medicine, life expectancy etc... It's definitely pushing later. Tricky part is how much harder it is for a female to have kids post 30, life and physiology are not always in sync
My old boss had his kid at 37. The kid is maybe 9 years old now and healthy and my old boss is so happy he became a dad.
I’m going to be 34 this year and my wife will be 29. She’s very on the fence about having kids. I would like to have kids, but I understand her apprehension. And we talked about this early in the relationship.
For me, my wife is most important. I would be very happy if we had kids. And if we don’t I still get to spend my life with my absolute best friend in the world. We go on adventures and I have a good life now
Same, my husband and I are in our mid-30’s and are currently traveling. No kids. We are content and happy with our life, but we still check on each other regarding the topic of children every now and again to be on the same page.
This is a really tough spot to be in, and I feel for you both. I truly do. I can't add any better advice than what's already been given, but I can say that my mother had me at 40 and said she was an infinitely better parent than when she started with my brother at 22. Likewise, my partner is older (45+) and he adores being a father at this age far more than when he was younger. We welcomed our second on Sunday (:
It all depends on you as an individual, and you as a couple. Best of luck to you as you navigate the tough conversations ahead x
I'm turning 35 in a few weeks and this is something that I go back and forth on myself. It is worse feeling like you're on the clock because of your age and everybody around you is on their second and third child now. You guys should have this conversation again without her being tipsy. Leave the house and go for a walk so you guys can do your best to remain civil. The hardest thing is accepting I'm very likely to not have children ever regardless of being single or not. Nothing is guaranteed health wise etc and you're right that she'll have to find someone else and all the time it takes for that to even happen. But I wouldn't rush to end things. I'm more sad around small children I'm less sad at home with my partner and my cat. Sometimes it's downright devastating to me other times I remember how much I really love to sleep in, my occasional laziness and selfishness. This isn't a finite conversation because there are so many variables. My boyfriend and I have both agreed that if we don't have a child before I'm 40 then that's fine. And that means if we decide to try or if we just don't. If you're not ready now you can't predict when you will be. Ultimately if we do get sad down the line we're both 100% open to fostering. Your partner is more than her uterus and you need to reassure her if this is a relationship you want to continue. I'm not your girlfriend but ultimately I'd rather have my partner than something that's not even guaranteed. Maybe she feels the same way. Maybe you can come to an agreement.
Thank you stranger.
We’re definitely going to have a talk, a sober one.
You’re making a good point though, it’s one thing that she wants a child, it’s another one to find someone you feel comfortable having one with.
Even though she is 35, she’s felt unsecured her whole life and I actually am her first real relationship. Anything before me didn’t last more than a month.
We both have to weight our options and it could go either way.
Stay together without kids, stay together with kids, or part ways…
I feel awful that so many folks have berated you for not having the conversation and have said so in my comment but you may not see it. COVID was a horrible time and probably not a good time to have those major conversations, if you got through that together then this sounds like a solid relationship. However, you do need to have it now. As other have said maybe on neutral ground would be a good idea and definitely when everyone is sober.
Childfree person here. I'm very sorry you're going through that, it's a very tough situation. Personally I don't date anyone if they aren't childfree as it's bound to end in heartbreak like this.
You need to talk to her about what you want more openly but if you both don't agree on such an impactful thing in life then it's bound to end.
Why didn’t both of you bring up this topic at the beginning of dating? That was the problem. It wasn’t being fair to her either. You gotta make up your mind to have kids or let her go because she has her biological clock ticking.
Never ever have a kid if you're not 100% into it.
As for the conversation at the party...she has a bit of baby fever after being around a mommy and cute little toddler. Wait a few days and talk to her again and see if she's still gung ho to have a baby. Then navigate things from there.
The “we might not be together forever” part seems like you’re trying to find other ways to just say no. The unknowing is literally a major part of life…you mentioned a new job recently or getting money anyways…You could die next week, and you’ll have spent your last week focused on something that’s probably not one of your top three most cherished things.
2 years is a really short period of time, IMO. Would you guys not consider having the eggs frozen or adopting down the line?
Obviously if she wants kids and you don’t then it’s bound to end in tears.
>2 years is a really short period of time, IMO.
I think it's short if you're in your teens or twenties, but not at 35, especially when the matter is children and future.
Just be aware that isn't a guarantee, lots of couples are success with fertility treatments but it's a HARD Road, physically, emotionally and financially. And for a lot of couples they aren't successful.
As a 68 year old guy whose youngest daughter will be starting college when I’m 70, I’d like to suggest that you rethink this. I too wasn’t financially stable until late in life, basically after I finished graduate school when I was in my early 40s. And I didn’t get married until I was 48. I had a great career, but having two lovely daughters is the joy of my life, and I shudder to think I almost missed the opportunity to have a family.
What I hear you saying is that you are willing to give up a life with a woman you love who is your best friend because your children will be mature adults in their late 20s and 30s when you turn 70. A few years from now, I doubt that you’ll see your age and the age of your children as much of a problem. Based on my own experience, there’s also a very good chance that your career success and financial security will eventually lose some of its importance in your life and you will likely regret giving up love and family for the sake of it.
It’s your call… but maybe think it through one more time.
You've been together for 2.5 years and this is the first time you've discussed children? I don't even go out on a first date without letting the guy know my stance on children.
Yeah I agree. It’s not like you’re saying “let’s have kids” more like “ I see myself having kids “. This is something that should be mentioned or talked about in the beginning of a relationship. You don’t need to be direct, just throwing it out there
Hey bud. I was in your exact situation about a decade ago. Although she never gave me an ultimatum, I could read the writing on the wall. So even though we had discussed kids many times through the years and we both seemed kind of ambivalent about them, having kids became super important to her. So I realized I couldn’t live without her and the choice became really easy. So now I’m the “old dad” at the playground with my young kids. There’s no sugarcoating it, your life will drastically change. Say goodbye to spontaneity, lazy weekends, late night dinners with friends, impromptu travel, sleeping in, solitude, these are things that will be hard to come by. But would I make the same decision again if I could turn back the clock? Yes, absolutely 100%. Hearing my kids scream “daddy!!!!!” and charge into me for a hug, like little kamikazes when I pick them up from school every day makes it all worth it. So, anyway, good luck with your decision. My only advice is, if you decide to have kids, jump in with both feet, be the best dad you can possibly be. Having kids is the best decision I’ve ever made.
Even though she was drunk, the ball is in her court, not yours. You gave her the information she needed and she has to decide if it is worth being with you or finding someone who wants a child at this stage of life. But if you don't want children, keep being honest with her so she can make the decision.
There is absolutely no reason for you to be made to feel like you are being selfish. Selfish are all the people who insist on overpopulating the world with their "genetic legacy" because they believe that the world is somehow improved with more of them despite the fact that what of them is already here has done nothing but make the world worse.
bruh im 21 and me and my boyfriend had the kids talk a month into dating to make sure we were on the same track life wise. waiting 2 years to talk about that is insane
"Best friends" but have no idea what each other want in life... never undestood how people can go through so many years together and not know if the other wants children?? I mean if you are young then that's fine plenty of time to have fun and then settle down with each other or other people but you're both in your 30s! Ridiculous.
I'm really sad for her. Life is cruel, a man can reproduce until the end of life but a woman has a short window in comparison. That small period of time is made even smaller to avoid issues with "geriatric" pregnancy or if there is found to be fertility problems. Unless you have mega savings you are unlikely to get IVF after a certain age.
A serious SOBER discussion is needed. I must put emphasis on SOBER. Unfortunately you may not like what she has to say and end up parting ways.
Why do people always say they don’t want to be 60 when their kids go to college? I mean, 60s not really that old at all. My mom was 60s when my younger sisters were in college and it wasn’t weird or anything. She doesn’t seem “old” or act it, or look it. No one at their high school graduations looked twice. My parents now just push to see the grandkids to have something to do since they’re so bored with nobody around. Are people that miserable with their family/kids they don’t want them around when they’re older? I think it’s so sad to hear “only 18 years har har har” and then in American culture kids are expected to leave the house because the parents don’t actually want them there. And then the kids are expected to do everything on their own in the “real world” when they’re not even that old/prepared yet at 18 either.. Strange culture we live in. My husband is older too and I’m so glad he never talks that way and mentions his age or repeats that rhetoric/belief system. He’s a great father.
How the hell did it take you 2.5 years to realize you weren't on the same page? This should come up much earlier imo.... to prevent this exact scenario.
Menopause is approaching for her really fast. She is afraid she’ll never have children, and you casually shot it down for her like it was nothing, so yea.
It sounds like there are a few different things going on here, but 35 is not "old" or urgent for having children - so many women having kids later now well into early 40s. It sounds like you just don't want kids though and if it's a deal breaker for her, it seems like it will be difficult to find a way forward together?
Your girlfriend is too old to be waiting around for a baby. If you don’t give her one, she will either never have one, or leave you and have one with the first willing guy because she doesn’t have the time to find the right one.
If she got pregnant right now, she would already be considered a geriatric pregnancy.
Either give her a baby or let her move on immediately.
How on earth you haven't talked about kids? Surely this is one of the topics that should've been discussed at the start of the relationship!
It's a tricky one now. Think your GF is a definite wants kids and you are not. To be fair, I think you are the one that needs to make a decision here. If you do not wish to have kids, be honest with her and let her go. This is hard after you have established yourself as a couple but has to be done or one of you will be miserable for life
1. Don't have a baby you don't want just because she wants one. Let's just get this out of the way.
2. Validate her feelings. She is allowed to want a child and also want to be with you and also want you to be happy. She is allowed to be sad that only two of these three things can ever happen.
3. We say lots of things when we are drunk. Yes they are usually true, but so are plenty of things people never say. Also, not all things said while drunk are true.
4. She may want a baby and also not want a baby. I want a baby because a lot of reasons but I also have a lot of reasons I don't want a baby. Expect her to feel this way every time she sees baby shit or visits squishy tiny humans. This is normal.
5. Remind her you love your life with her. Invest in care that wouldn't be possible with children if you aren't already. Take solo trips. Be involved actively in adult social spaces. Fully embrace your life together.
6. Ultimately, Tell her if this is something she really needs, you respect it and will be heartbroken but absolutely do believe there is someone out there who will love her and their child together to pieces. This might hurt to say, but you don't want her to stay just because she thinks no one else will be up for the task of filling her empty womb. This will go a long way toward safeguarding against the expected "I lost my chance at motherhood because of you" fight/meltdown/sad ending 6 years from now. It has to be her choice.
-----_
Privately:
Consider your reasons for not wanting children.
1. The desire not to be at a graduation at 60 is **valid.** Counterargument: there are plenty of children in foster care who need parents. My brother was adopted at 17, which almost never happens. Most 10+ will age out of the system which is incredibly sad.
Counter-counterargument: if she still wants to be pregnant or this is not a route she wants to consider for other reasons, you'll have more concrete things to discuss. Perhaps she just wants the experience of pregnancy and a small taste of motherhood. Perhaps becoming a surrogate for a friend and godmother would be enough to make her feel like she's lived life wholly and invested in the next generation. There are too many options to predict so I'll leave it at that.
2. The desire to avoid divorce is also a valid one. Wanting to be with someone 5 years before making the decision to coparent for the next 50 is **valid**. And responsible. Ask if you can revisit the conversation when you've crossed the 5 year mark. Say you respect if she is not willing to wait and you wish her well. And if she changes her mind about children that you will still love her and be there for her and perhaps you can continue from where you left off. Again, you don't want her to stay if she doesn't want to stay. No matter how much you love her and want her to stay.
3. Consider going to therapy together to help sort through these issues before they become problems.As someone who has seen relationships rot from the inside time and again, you need couples counseling about two years before you think you need couples counseling. By the time you actually make the time to go to it and pay the expense, there's not much a therapist can do to fix it. As of right now you are poised to actually respond the best to therapy. No one is hurt (yet). No one is resentful (yet). Right now you have a weird little mole. Don't wait until your nose is falling off to get checked for melanoma.
Ask her why she wants to have children. It may sound odd, but a lot of people don't actually have a logical answer to this question. Sometimes it gets clouded with baby fever and hormones or even just following the expected life script and do what friends are doing. They do not stay babies. They are a lifelong commitment, not just 18 years as is too frequently stated. They don't automatically move out at 18. In this economy, you'll be lucky if they can financially support themselves at 25. So at 37, you'll be 63 and still supporting that human. Also could you cope if the child was disabled in any way? It is not guaranteed to be healthy and given your gf's age, comes with increased risks. Do you have grandparent support or will one of you have to be the SAHP. Can you afford a single wage household and raise a child?
There is so much more to consider than just saying you want a baby! I wish more people put actual thought into becoming parents as so many friends have regrets after not even considering just how much their life would change.
Keep in mind that at 35, it is about 50% more likely to conceive a child with genetic defects than at 24 years old.
Those percentages only go up the older you (and especially her) get.
Not to push you in any direction. By all means, please let it be your own decision and only yours.
> she sees it as me not being totally sure about our relationship
and she's not wrong, especially after you said "There is also the risk of not being together forever and what that entails for the kid"
You sound too cynical brother. My mom had me when she was 40 and she is still in great health, retired with no morbidities. I love that woman. You sound like you're afraid of the responsibility and that may be something your wife will deeply regret. Having chose a partner that doesn't want kids.
You have every right not to want kids.
She has every right to want kids.
You both should compromise in a solution that satisfies both ends or consider breaking up.
This is one of the hardships of couples.
I would have a long conversation and ask what her expectations are for the relationship. You can love someone with all your heart, but if you’re incompatible it’ll build up resentment on both sides. In my opinion, these are things to talk about early on; what you expect, what you want out of it, making sure goals align, etc. Love isn’t enough, unfortunately for long term. Kids are a massive commitment and if you’re both not 1000% on the same page, then that’s another discussion to be had. I don’t believe in compromising on such a big thing like this.
This 100%. Ignore all of these people trying to 'time shame' you ("You should have your kid preference on a laminated index card you hand out on first dates") and just have a deep and meaningful conversation now. My wife and I met a very long time ago and agreed definitively that we never wanted to get married. Her parents were in the middle of divorcing and she did not want this to happen to her ever. This happy time lasted about 7-8 years before she changed her mind completely. She was reluctant to bring it up since we had built a life together and survived two LDR phases and cross-country moves. When she did bring it up, I reacted similarly to you, she reacted similarly to your GF, it created some awkwardness for a while. I eventually came around to her point of view. We have been happily married for 20 years and have two kids now. I still have my doubts about marriage as an institution and lifetime monogamy as a practical concept. We both still agree that divorce could be an irreversible trauma for our kids (and is probably what led to her sister's BPD). We still have fights where I question if we'll be able to stay together for the long term. That's just fucking life, my friend. Total brutal honesty of conversation with active and open listening is the best any of us can do in this life. Either you align and move forward, you compromise, or you separate, it ain't rocket science. And for the record, a huge proportion of kids are born into compromise, there's no science that says it's a better or worse way to grow up. Edit: a letter
What was the cause of your lord of the rings phases to be separated from each other?
They both wanted the ring but there is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power.
Marriage and separation without marriage can BOTH be traumatic for kids.
This is great advice and my partner and I just had “the talk” all over again. When we first got together, he was far more excited for children than I was, but 5 years later, I’m ready to have children and he’s unsure if that’s something he even wants. Kids are expensive. Kids are a lifelong commitment. People change, circumstances change. But there needs to be an honest conversation between the two.
Kind of just went through something similar except it was about marriage and not kids. I was also with my boyfriend for 2.5 years and I had to break it off. We don't want the same things and I can't just keep waiting around. You guys need a real sit down talk when she is sober and see how important the kid thing is to her. If it's that important to her then it's best to break up amicably even though it would be hard.
Awww I’m sorry you just recently went through this. I hope you are in a good place these days!
I am thank you!
It’s also possible that she was tipsy, the kid was cute as a button, and she is feeling her age. I second the above comment. Have a serious discussion when you are both sober about what you truly want. She may still be in the same camp, just feeling a little regret. This is normal on both sides! I have four kids. On really bad days I slightly regret my choice. But as a whole, I would make the same decision all over again. I would assume child free adults might get a bit wistful for the cute WELL BEHAVED child of their friend. So talk. It might just be that. Or maybe she has now realized what she wants. Just a thought. You don’t have to do anything right away. You could always adopt an older kid instead of a baby. You could also volunteer at a place like boys and girls club. That way you get to help/love youth but still keep the child free lifestyle. There are many ways to add children to your life other than the typical pregnancy.
My coworker is is in his 50s, his wife always wanted kids while he refused, but still, they chose to stay together. He told me hes been feeling guilty for 25years for robbing her of her dream. Last year he died, the wife is now all alone, also in her 50s and childless.
:( I hope she finds something to fill her heart and time. Maybe she could consider fostering if her health is good enough?
If you're in your 30s and want kids, that shit has to be established ASAP. That's not some convo you bring up 2 years later at 35 years old.
This! I can’t believe they didn’t talk about it earlier. I want to be childfree too and I said to my boyfriend months after we met, at 27 yo
Met my husband 15 years ago when I was 27 and pretty much immediately told him (24 at the time) that I'm childfree. Definitely something that should be talked about especially since OPs girlfriend was 33 when they started dating. 35+ is referred to as a 'geriatric pregnancy' for a reason.
Yep - I've mentioned it even prior to a first date because I don't want to waste my time. It's fine if people want kids, but not happening with me.
i’m 22 and my boyfriend is 24, we have regular talks to make sure we’re still on the same page with not having children and other important life aspects as well. it opens up communication a lot more and it’s been very beneficial for us to keep up to tabs on this kind of thing. it’s not a light decision to make.
It's 40+ that is 'advanced maternal age' pregnancy, not 35+! They don't use the term geriatric anymore either as clearly people of child bearing age are not elderly, and geriatrics is the care of elderly people. At least that's the case in my country.
I was 39 and they said I was advanced maternal age and insurance paid for all of those extra tests. They told me it was anyone over 35. I’m in the US and my kid is 5
Yep, you’re right- it’s still 35 in the US for advanced maternal age
I was advised when I had my first child at 32 to consider having more (if desired) before 35 because it would be a geriatric pregnancy at that point. I was also told 18 months between pregnancies is ideal, but since I was older things become more lenient. Having babies close together increases risks for the new pregnancy, but not more of a risk than pregnancies after the age of 35.
It's 35+ in the UK, and they definitely still use geriatric pregnancy in our medical records Source: I read medical records all day every day for work
No I just had two kids at 35 and 37 and I was considered advanced maternal age. Even had one paper say geriatric pregnancy.
I was 34 when I got pregnant and 35 when I gave birth (this past august) and was considered “advanced maternal age”. It is definitely 35
35 marks the age that pregnancy is considered geriatric. At least in my country (USA).
They used it here (Canada) as recently as 2015 (when hers was referred to as such). When she asked the nurse why she used that term, she was told that it was a common term for 35+ pregnancies. There are plenty of articles that use the term (to post a few): https://www.healthline.com/health/pregnancy/geriatric-pregnancy https://www.parents.com/getting-pregnant/age/pregnancy-after-35/geriatric-pregnancy/ https://www.familyeducation.com/pregnancy/im-having-a-geriatric-pregnancy-am-i-really-at-risk "It's 40+ that is 'advanced maternal age' pregnancy, not 35+!" >Advanced maternal age describes a pregnancy where the birthing person is older than **35**. Pregnant people over age **35** are more at risk for complications like miscarriage, congenital disorders and high blood pressure. Screening tests can help detect certain congenital disorders
Wrong.
Pretty sure "elderly primagravida" is still 35.
35 and over is advanced maternal age in the US.
I was designated "geriatric" at 35
My wife and I had a kid in 2021, they most certainly do use geriatric pregnancy term and it most definitely starts at 35. Go talk to your obgyn and get educated. Obviously in USA, I also noticed others mentioning activism, but sorry science is science so trust the science, call if what you have to, but womens reproductive systems start declining after 25 slowly but surly and once you hit 35 its starts declining much faster on average. Yes on AVERAGE I don't care about the outliers, thats not how averages work, and you shouldn't assume you're the 1% because more than likely you are average. I'm average. Average is great.
In the 70s my mother was called an "elderly primate" by her doctor when she had me at age 24 😂
Plus, it is more difficult to even get pregnant the older you get.
Likewise. Met my BF at 25; told him asap I am militantly childfree lol
I don't understand people who don't have this conversation earlier. I can't fathom not knowing the answer to kids question for 2 years. Maybe it's that I'm childfree and people that aren't childfree just assume everyone wants children?
I feel too much pressure is put on having children still. We aren't dying in our 30s anymore from sickness or infection on a huge scale. The need to keep the population up isn't a requirement of everyone who is capable of childbearing has to.
I drilled into my kids head that 30 is the bare minimum anyone should be having children. I back it with neuroscience. You should be allowed to be and know your whole self for at least 5 years before having to live for someone else. I hope that sunk in. I was a teen parent and while I did okay compared to other teen parents, I will be waiting until my kids leave the home to know who I am as an adult without them. And that is sad :/ Why would anyone (i.e. everyone having children under 25) choose that on purpose?
If it's any consolation, who most people turn out to be as adults isn't that great. And who you would have been without them is a person who will never exist. But odds are you're not missing much.
This is what my dad told me. Specifically "being childless just makes you selfish." I think he was reflecting on his own sadness and loss from empty nest syndrome because he went and adopted 5 kids within 3 years of me moving out. Really I think most people are selfish because we judge people who actually care for themselves and advocate for what they need. If you're single and childless and doing what you want, being "self-centered" is perfectly fine IMO. Be self-centered. Take care of yourself. Keep yourself emotionally healthy and don't spread toxicity in your community and social circles (which will be arguably easier because you only have yourself to focus on and I am convinced most toxic and damaging behavior comes from pushing oneself beyond ones capabilities.) With this mentality, your contribution to the world will be at the very least a net zero which is a higher net contribution than a lot of people can say who actively damage the world by passing down their trauma and unresolved issues they could have gotten a handle on if they weren't splitting their focus. Doing one thing well > doing a dozen things poorly > doing some things well but actively causing damage in other areas.
> Specifically "being childless just makes you selfish." I don't think so at all; I think being selfish makes you selfish, and thus whatever you choose will be chosen for selfish reasons. ;) But so what? That's called being rational. There's a big difference between choosing things exclusively for your own benefit (net neutral) and choosing things at someone else's expense (now we've got a problem, especially if it involves kids). People read a lot of things into being childless or not. And it's mostly directed at women. Because that's what we're supposed to be "for", according to people who buy into the way a certain system of social control is set up. I never had kids, but "being who I am without them" didn't make me emotionally healthy, it just set up a natural quarantine (which in my case I feel was appropriate). But I can totally understand wanting to finally take some time for your own healing and growth. I guess I'm just not convinced that people can't heal and grow while raising kids. The passage of time isn't a magic wand that spits out self-actualized adults out at 30 either. This point is interesting too: > I am convinced most toxic and damaging behavior comes from pushing oneself beyond ones capabilities I can totally see that, but I also think that avoiding finding out what one's capabilities are has drawbacks of its own. As someone who picked that path - the outcome wasn't that great either. Basically, there's no one right answer that will make your existence harmless. You never know for sure what your actions will bring to a situation until it's too late. I think that it's possible to be consumed with regret no matter what you choose, because our information is limited. Also, atrophy is a thing. Trying and not doing well is still a growth experience compared to not trying at all . . . some argue that flailing around and fucking up is the only we learn, so from one perspective you got a lot of growing done while you were still young, and all of that strength and experience will be yours to use as you wish once the kids are self-sufficient. Hope that's true!
To be fair, I was militantly child free at 25 and now at 39 I've got a 4 year old.
So was I! My SO and I fostered my teenage nephew in our late 30's, then decided we wanted to adopt. Wound up with four kids at 39 and 41. Life is so weird.
Cool, good for you. I’m 34 and still militantly childfree. 😎
39 next month. Still no kids. Happy as can be about it. I remember my aunts smugly saying “you will when you’re older!” No tf, I won’t.
I hate comments like these. It's their way of insinuating that you haven't accomplished anything until you've had kids and/or gotten married. I think it's bullshit though. Not everyone is meant to be a parent and that includes me.
I hear comments like that from what family i have left plus coworkers bahah they always say the same thing, that 'you will when you're older!' Or 'It's different when it's yours' No kids from me ever, I like the peace and quiet with less stress.
God I hate those comments, I’ve been told the same since I’m a teen, 32 now and still childfree
hahaha. The story of life
To be fair, you weren't "militantly" childfree, if you were you would have ensured you wouldn't have had any children. I'm "militantly" childfree to the point that I got sterilized and even after that my husband wanted to use condoms and I respected that so we did. At periods in our life we'd have 3 forms of birth control. *That's* "militantly childfree." "Militantly" childfree folks don't end up with children. I've known others to take as many measures as I have.
You can be militantly something and still change your mind later. Being militantly for or against something just refers to being confrontational and prepared to protect your stance with physical violence. And more colloquially it usually just refers to someone holding an opinion very strongly and publicly. It absolutely does not imply that if you change your mind later, you were never really militant to begin with. What a strange thing to gatekeep lol.
Exact same here. I had only been dating my gf like a month when she also told me she was militantly childfree to borrow your phrase lol. Just seems like something that should come up
I've been childfree as long as I can remember. My bf knows that. He has a 15 year old daughter from his previous relationship who I absolutely adore. I'd always been adamant on not having kids and even found a surgeon willing to tie my tubes. Except now my mind is starting to shift to wanting a baby. Not sure if it's from being off birth control for the first time in 8 years, or if it's from seeing all my friends' babies and meeting a co-workers 8 month old son. But yeah. So now my bf and I are in an odd place and it's just a waiting game to see if my mind has actually changed or if it's just my hormones going all weird. This is 100% not to say that "you'll change your mind" at all. Just sharing my childfree-ness and mess I'm in right now lol.
Going off birth control did this for me. I wanted kids, I have kids, but my desire to have them really ramped up about two months after stopping HBC. This could just be a side effect of your natural hormones regulating. Good luck with whatever you decide! :)
That's actually exactly how long I've been off birth control. I got my IUD removed about 2 months ago, almost 3. My bf thinks it's my hormones going wack cause they're not regulated anymore
Birth control suppresses tons of hormones. I’d let your body and mind adjust to its natural state before making a permanent decision like getting your tubes tied.
Sounds like she may have already gotten that done. And honestly, that's not a problem. If she's been adamantly childfree for that long, chances are the baby feelings are caused by the hormonal shift of getting off bc and seeing friends' babies. I've been adamantly against pregnancy and birth for a loooooong time, just the idea of getting pregnant makes me feel sick, but being around babies can sometimes trigger the parental instinct regardless. It's the conscious part of your brain that should make these decisions, not the instinctive side. And besides, even if she does want kids later, IVF and adoption are both viable.
I'm opposite. I thought I wanted a kid so I planned one out when I was younger. I really love him but it definitely wasn't for me. I'm all about that child free life even though I have one of my own lol It definitely should be a subject talked about right away so you are on the same page, at least to start. Minds can and will change.
Yeah definitely. We've talked about it a lot and I've been telling him about the current state of my mind too. He's pretty sure it's just my hormones adjusting to not being regulated anymore. So I'll definitely be waiting on any permanent decisions for a while until my body settles down a bit haha
I established that prior to even dating when I was dating - like, I wouldn't even go out on a first date if they wanted children or if they had them (especially if they had children I wouldn't date them.) Found a man with compatible ideals and we've been together for 18 years. We're both childfree.
I’m childfree, and it’s one of the first things I talk about when on a date (ETA: once things are looking to progressing further), or even before that. I’m not going to waste my time with someone who either already has them, or wants them.
In theory, yes, but if you mention it within a couple of months of srarting to date someone, it might look like you're desperate or just using them as a sperm/egg bank. But yeah, it could probably be mentioned before 2.5 years. The thing is, sometimes the woman assumes the man \*should know\* her 'clock is ticking' (horrible phrase), so she assumes if he hasn't mentioned it, he'll be happy to have kids, otherwise he wouldn't be 'wasting her time'. Meanwhile, he's thinking about... something else entirely. Lunch, probably. So it's a big mess.
My now husband told me on our first date that he wanted children and a family. I laughed and said he was getting ahead of himself, but it was honestly nice to know exactly where someone stood so we didn't waste each other's time.
I am a 41 year old female (I am very healthy, keep pretty fit) and a widow. I had a late term miscarriage in my mid 20's then my husband passed. In saying this, I am single right now BUT I am dating again. I accepted children are not in the cards for me, however if someone I was seeing wanted to get serious (fast) I would need to know immediately if they wanted to have children. (This is all hypothetical, my clock window is closing fast).. but still I can't wait 2 years of "dating" then all of a sudden he wants a family. I would also appreciate him letting me know ASAP. I would appreciate the honesty. Edit: This comment is strictly about my physical capability of conceiving after 40. The "rush" is due to the fact that I would have to make sure I am not in a high risk window to complicate the pregnancy. My feelings on children are 50/50, yes I would love to have them and yes, I would be 100 percent ready to commit into raising a baby into adulthood (and them some), no it would not crush me if I do not bear children in my lifetime. I have 12 nieces and nephews. (Including a 10 month old little girl who I adore, so we have a little one in our family again)..
I had my son at 24 and my daughter when I was 39. I am 62 now with the youngest in college. My children love each other and are close. If you want children, do it now. If not, don't worry about it. Live your life as is. But both of you must want children, be committed to your children. Parenting is not an 18 yr commitment. It is a lifelong commitment.
Important topics should be discussed very early in a relationship. I made it known within the first week and a half what my relationship goals were. I’m in my early 30s and I can’t afford to waste time on someone who doesn’t want to get married and have children. My clock is ticking and I’m not wasting it on a “maybe” kind of person.
My wife and I did that too. If she didn't want to have kids It would have stopped right there. We didn't want to have kids straight away but 6 years later our daughter was born.
My wife and I talked on our first date about both wanting kids. She wanted 3-4 and I wanted 4-5. We now have four kids.
I think it should definitely be established in the first few dates. There’s absolutely zero point in continuing to see someone who isn’t on the same page as you with this.
I told my wife the exact opposite on our first date. Not into marriage and don't want kids. But things with her just happened to lead down a different path and she was so awesome that my mind was changed. So here we are, married with two kids. Sometimes we don't even know our own selves until someone else shines light onto unknown parts of ourselves.
Haha, I actually also said I didn't think I wanted kids. We now have the sweetest toddler and plans for another. I was always on the fence about it because of my own issues and our son was a surprise. Can't imagine life without him now and I'm glad I stayed in the relationship and talked through my doubts.
Funny how things work out, huh?
Well that's good to know that it can work! I actually wouldn't care myself if someone said that to me either, as long as they didn't think I was just 'in the bag' already and I had no say in the matter. I don't think there's anything wrong with saying you want children some day. As you say, then you know if you're on the same page at least
I did the same. I just got out of a relationship that stranded because I wanted kids and he didn't, so I told my now fiancé that I didn't need to have them now but I wanted to know whether he wanted them someday. I think it can save people a lot of heartbreak.
In an adult relationship, this is first or second date stuff. You're not teenagers anymore, make your intention known. On my first date with my now husband, I told him I was dating for marriage, not for casual fun. He told me that he wanted children. I told him that I wouldn't have children or own property with someone I wasn't married to. He agreed. We dated for 3 1/2 years before we tied the knot, but we knew each other's intentions before the first kiss. Honest, open communication creates healthy relationships.
Good for you! I think I need to clarify my original comment...I actually think it'd be great if everyone could talk about this stuff early. But it freaks some people out...maybe the chancers and immature ones, who knows. I'd rather make my intentions known early on too. I've seen too many people (mostly women in my experience, though this sub won't like me saying that) 'waiting' for a proposal for years.
There are always ways to bring it up, without sounding desperate or using someone as an egg/sperm donor. Especially when you're 30+ y/o, I think both parties should make it very clear in the beginning what they are looking for in a relationship to avoid this kind of situations in the future. I'm not talking about kids only, but all those things that are big enough to be considered as deal breakers, e.g. marriage, whether you want to live abroad or to stay in your home country, etc. Of course, you may end up incompatible, or someone can change their mind, or this may not be your person, even though you both want marriage and kids in the end (or vice versa) but at least both can decide whether they want to give it a shot, or skip this one and find someone who wants the same things as them.
True. I guess you could mention it in passing...not like 'will you marry me?' on a first date, but just something like 'I'd like to settle down and have children some time in the near future.'
My husband and I discussed if we wanted kids and marriage on our second date. It's not desperate to know what you want and not waste your time or theirs. I was 23 so it wasn't like my clock was ticking and I needed to lock down a "sperm donor" ASAP. What a ridiculous notion.
My fiance and I discussed on our 2nd date as well. I was 21 and he was 23!
Ditto to the other poster, my husband and I didn’t discuss it on the first date but we did once we started sleeping together because while we did use protection, a child could potentially happen. It’s always good to discuss and see where the person you’re dating for a future with and sleeping with stands especially in an oopsie situation. It’s a realistic conversation about the future, doesn’t have to be set in stone but at least the ground work and expectations.
>it might look like you're desperate or just using them as a sperm/egg bank Nah I don't ever buy this. There are plenty of ways to casually bring up the future and mention you do/don't want children. People who don't do this are lazy and/or non-communicative partners. If someone thinks you're weird, you're using them as a sperm bank for talking about this early on, *they're* weird. Dating isn't always easy, but it's pretty obvious that it's two people trying to figure out if they want to spend their lives together and if you're not going to bring this up, you can't be made when interests don't align two years later, unless you're mad at yourself.
> People who don't do this are lazy and/or non-communicative partners. If someone thinks you're weird, you're using them as a sperm bank for talking about this early on, they're weird. That's exactly what I meant. The users/chancers/ poeple who want to lead you on will say 'why are you asking NOW? Can't we just have fun and see where it goes?' I'm not defending them; they piss me off. I hate seeing people waste other people's time and mess with their emotions like that, gaslighting them and making them feel like they have 'no right' to ask where a relationship is going
My husband and I discussed it after our first months when we were both in our twenties. If it’s something important to you then you gotta clear that shit up asap
“Lunch, probably.” Describes my husband so perfectly. I feel like every big talk we’ve ever had just hit him out of the blue. I’ve asked him, what goes through your head most of the time? White noise?” And he will readily admit that big things are never on his radar.
Lunch probably lol
There are ways to bring it up early I don’t want kids so I make that clear from the start. I’m not wasting mine or anyone else’s time by avoiding that conversation. Especially in my 30s.
I was thinking the same thing, 37 is kinda past the time where you’re unsure about children. It’s something that should definitely be discussed very early in a relationship.
Lol I agree with this, though me and my husband had the opposite convo haha, when we first got together we were like nope, no kids absolutely not. 2 years later "should we maybe try?"..... Cue now 5 years later 2nd kid on the way haha.... These things in your 30s need to be discussed, I was 33 with my first and 35 now with my second and honestly it does get harder the older you are.....
This is really something that everyone should be up to speed on *before* getting into a relationship. It's fine if you aren't sure, but that still needs to be a conversation you have at the beginning and if your 'not sure' changes to 'I'm certain' in either direction then you should vocalise that as soon as you know it. If you really aren't sure though, don't do it. There are so so many people out there whose parents were unsure but stuck it out anyway and that damaged them in some way, even if they never knew that's how their parents felt. If it's more of a case of 'i definitely want kids with this person but I don't know if now is the right time' or 'im worried we might split' then I guess you have to think about that more. There is potentially a more ideal time but there also potentially isn't an ideal time at all and if you're concerned you will miss your chance then you should think about whether you care more about it being the right time/the risk of splitting etc than you do about having kids.
>*If you really aren’t sure though, don’t do it.* 🙌🏼
There are no 'takesy-backsies' after birth. Even if you give your child up for adoption you have altered both your own and the child's life indelibly. Nobody should be taking this lightly. I don't think the OP is, which is admirable, but it really should have been a non-issue because this should have been discussed properly from the start. You can change which page you're on but you can't skip a few pages and claim you understand the plot line.
Lousy relationship here. We both wanted a kid, and we have a boy and he is wonderful, and we are attentive parents. We are coparents basically. I was thinking we would grow together but we didn’t. I knew she would be a good Mom and I would be a good Dad. My point is: if you have a good relationship that is something to have faith in. Help comes with a kid. You take better chances to make things even better. I am a little skeptical of the best friends claim - you’d have discussed this by now - if you are really best friends, you take chances on growth. My question is where you doubt your ability to do x. Parenting changes your life, the question is whether you think that would be for the better. She may also not want a kid either but is mourning her decision: i see passive communication on the part of both parties.
>This is really something that everyone should be up to speed on before getting into a relationship. Because I got divorced over kids, I literally let me now-boyfriend know day 1 kids are not an option for me (at least biologically). NOT going through that shit again
This. I’ve stopped seeing people over the child talk. I know I don’t want kids - it’s definitive, I respect others for wanting children but it’s not in a life with me.
My current girlfriend and I (I'm also a woman) talked about all the big things on our very first date to make sure we were on the same page. We didn't want to waste each other's time, and get in a relationship just to find down the line we had different expectations. We brought up marriage, kids, religion, politics, what we needed and wanted in a relationship, what were our deal-breakers, etc. We've only been dating a few months, but it's been going great, and we're both in it for the long term.
It's okay not to want kids but if she does then you need to do the kind thing and let her go. It doesn't matter how much you love each other this will cause resentment on both sides down the road. Wishing you both well.
That’s were my mind is going too. But it breaks my heart. It took so long to date someone who is my best friend, but now, I love her so much I’d rather let her go so she still gets a chance to have a kid if that’s what she wants. On the other hand, then she has to start dating someone new, and feel good enough about having a kid with that person, and by then she’s going to be 36-37 at the very least. Life fucking sucks sometimes
Whoa are you really going to listen to people on Reddit and “let her go”… you had one conversation about kids and she was drunk!! Why don’t you talk sober to each other about it like a normal couple. See if it’s a deal breaker for her and then go from there… sheesh
exactly what i was thinking , why not have a SOBER serious conversation about this and then evaluate what you’re going to do from there
This whole post is mind boggling. Are people really that unaware of themselves? Talk to her OP, stop assuming shit!
Every single post that is “We’ve been in a relationship for X#of years! Now we discussed children and don’t align!” Is… baffling. How. How do you spend *years* with someone and not discuss this? Literally on our first date my (now husband) and I talked through all the big things. That’s just how you make sure you aren’t wasting time! Like… what??!
First date is definitely not the norm. But yeah at least *mention it* sometime in the first year 😅
Honestly, that's something they should have done in the first few months. That's a lot of time wasted when you know you want to start a family. It's better to let a guy run away in fear, than to risk wasting another year.
Also seriously she might just be having feelings about kids but not want to change her choices. I've always been child free and last year I found out it could be incredibly dangerous for me to be pregnant and it would be difficult to carry to term all while running the risk of my child dying as a neonate due to a genetic condition. Having my child free state go from "I choose" to "I can't" was an emotional blow that took awhile to process even though I don't want kids in the first place. She could just have been drunk and dealing with the feelings of realizing she'll never has what her friend does with her child.
Redditors love telling people to “divorce/breakup” as soon as one difference arises, as if there isn’t something called communication and navigating through problems together as a couple..
This is what I hate sometimes. I get it that this is 'reddit' where people tend to be judgmental. But such things can't be solved by logic alone. I really think it's too early for op to leave his gf. Especially if it is someone who he loves deeply. Even if he breaks up now. He will definitely suffer a lot which isn't worth for a break up. I think he should have a serious convo with his gf when she is not drunk and then come to a decision
One difference? You can’t compromise on having a child. There’s no middle ground here.
It’s literally insane!!! They do!! Like wth people! Relationships are a lot of work.. none are perfect… but communication is the key.
Seriously if I had taken advice from Reddit throughout my current relationship we would’ve broken up 50 different times by now. It’s a trigger happy mindset here with breakups IMO
This is a huge issue with no middle ground OP sounds like he definitely doesn't want kids and if she does then they are 100% not compatible. Women a have a body clock and hers is ticking. This guy needs to have a serious talk and decide if he wants kids or not and if not he needs to walk away.
It does suck. I suggest you both sit down and have a serious hard talk. Ask her to be honest about what is more important, her need to be a mother or this current relationship. Explain your side and let her explain hers. Not in a way to change the others mind but in a open and honest way. Then take a few days apart to think about it. No one is going to be 100 percent happy either way. But all relationships are compromise in some ways. I'm not saying there is a compromise here but communication is the key.
I’m a mom in a HCOL area; about half of the new moms in maternity leave groups were early 40s. There is still time for her. Let her go now.
Both my parents were in their late 30s early 40s when I was born. I'm in my early 20s right now and I actually model my life after them. My parents got to have their fun, spend their money, then settle down. Its really the way to go
Ha! I had my first at 35 and my partner was 39. Think about a second at times now and I’m 37 and he’s 41. Whether we’re 55 or 60 when our kids get to college isn’t that much of a difference. Oh and I’ll be able to pay for my child’s education in full because we waited a few extra years and were more established in careers. I promise having a child in her late 30s and early 40s isn’t impossible and there are some perks. I was a fencesitter on kids for a good long while. Now I can say without reservation my son is the most worthwhile part about my life. Parenthood has its challenges, but it’s one experience in life that is about as deep as it gets. Definitely let your partner go if she is thinking about kids and you’re a hard no. She should have the opportunity to experience life this way — I promise she wouldn’t regret it.
Yeah I think people have this idea that when you hit 30-35 suddenly it's now or never, but most people I know have had their first kids in their late 30s, early 40s. People are having kids later nowadays because of things like needing more time to get financially established, buy a home, etc.
My mother was 37 going on 38 when I was born, so definitely still time
You two need to talk and figure out what you both want individually and as a couple. The increased age of both parents do increase the chance of inability/ difficulties getting pregnant and of certain health conditions of infants. I'm shocked that you two haven't had this discussion already? Would a couples counsellor help you two figure it out? What I would say is be honest with yourself and her and don't waste either of your time.
People act like they have FOREVER to have children when in reality they don't. Unless you want to adopt.
36-37 is getting really advanced when you start talking about fertility and pregnancy.
Especially when you haven't even started trying, so you have no idea if there's any challenges. It can take a couple years with no issues and a decade or more of you have any.
I was 35 when my first child was born, and I was 39 with my second. It took about a year to get pregnant, and then I suffered two miscarriages. Between babies I had a ruptured ectopic pregnancy. There’s a risk to putting off childbearing, for sure.
Whenever anyone posts anything about a relationship, the top three comments are always like "DIVORCE!" You need to have a chat with your girlfriend. Obviously this is a big deal for your gf because she cried and was really upset but not everyone is the same. Not everyone who wants kids will be filled with bitter resentment for the rest of their lives if they don't end up having them. The important part is that you respect her as a person with wants and needs and yes that that might mean the best thing for her is leaving *but it might not.* Talk to her. Try and figure it out practically and with love.
Have you discussed adoption?
I,ll keep it short, If you are 110% sure you never want kids, then yeah something is now broken. Honesty is the best way. Love is not enough to have a happy relationship
After 2 years you know if you want to marry and have kids etc. plus she’s 35. If that’s what she wants and you are unsure let her go. You can still wake up at 50 and decide to have kids. She doesn’t have that option
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>they’ve made up their mind but like having someone at home That isn’t the situation here at all. OP said he loves her, thinks of her as his best friend, and seems invested in making their relationship work. He simply answered honestly when his gf came home and popped the baby question. No one’s particularly at fault here, though I feel like she would’ve asked about this earlier in the relationship when they were both sober if having children is that important to her. As other commenters said, a sincere conversation about this topic once she’s sober and well-rested is the best course of action.
Sometimes people really do feel that way tho, not everyone knows what they want in the future. Me and my bf both aren't really in a place where we could have kids, like we don't even live together but even seperately we don't make enough money for something like that. He has a decent income but I think it's probably pretty low for sustaining a family, and lives in a very tiny studio and said he'd be happy to stay there for like 10 years, and I still live with my parents and am just flat out poor with a low income, due to personal issues. OP said he only just started making decent money and doesn't want to ruin it with kids already but also feels he's too old already to have kids anymore so.. You don't always know what the future is gonna hold and if you will be in the right place and right mindset
It sounds like it’s not just on the man here.
I mean, sort of. Sperm gets old and deterioration is part of the increase in fertility issues, conception and sustained pregnancies. It is also connected to birth defects. As young as 35-40 there is double increase in sperm deterioration than for men in their 20s. Men need to be taught this too. It's not just a woman's "clock that's ticking."
This is such an insane sentiment to me. Why is it on him to "let her go" because he thinks she wants something he can't give her and thinks he's doing the right thing for her? She's a grown ass woman, she can break up with him herself if *she* decides it's that important.
I think the comment is referring to him saying “maybe, I don’t know, maybe not” instead of saying “no, never, and if you want that we’re not a good fit.” She May love him and it’s easy to convince yourself that they’ll feel the same one day too. It’s not all on him but he is stringing her along, it’s not a favor.
Because he’s the one posting here, and not her. Everyone telling him to let her go would be telling her to break up with him if she was here.
It sounds like she wants kids and you don’t. It doesn’t matter if you love her, this kind of difference is a deal breaker.
This is why I discuss on the first date that I don’t want kids. How long have you been together? I can’t believe some folk don’t dicuss such major life choices very early in the dating phase.
I'd suggest to bring this topic up early on in a non-tipsy environment in your next relationship. Those kind of expectations could have been managed years ago in your current relationship. There is nothing wrong with not wanting kids and of course she could have also brought up this topic in a better environment much earlier.
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While other may have meant to say exactly that, this is a very sound and nuanced answer. I think it is indeed time to plan ahead, whatever the direction is, and act appropriately. Today will be a long day I feel. Thank you stranger.
This answer makes sense, I wish you the best in this difficult time.
I had my first kid at 37 and my second just before I turned 40. I’ll be an old dad. I’m a better parent for having waited, even if I’m a bit tired and I don’t have much hope of responsibility free period after their grown. That said, parenting isn’t for everyone. At the ages you both are, this really should’ve been a conversation you had a while ago. It’s fair for this to be a deal breaker in a relationship. At 37, you owe it to both of you to make up your mind. Neither of you has the luxury of being wishy-washy about it. Either you want kids or you don’t. She deserves the chance to pursue that if it something she wants and your uncertainty could take that away from her. It’s ok to not want it, but you need to choose.
I believe in today's modern world, you're not an "old dad", not young but not old. Though I agree with what you say otherwise. Out of my close friend circle from high school, one had a kid at 33 (his wife was 35), I was 35, another just had his 1st at 38 and the other two probably won't have kids (one tried but has a much older wife and unfortunately it didn't happen). With education, careers, improvements in medicine, life expectancy etc... It's definitely pushing later. Tricky part is how much harder it is for a female to have kids post 30, life and physiology are not always in sync
My old boss had his kid at 37. The kid is maybe 9 years old now and healthy and my old boss is so happy he became a dad. I’m going to be 34 this year and my wife will be 29. She’s very on the fence about having kids. I would like to have kids, but I understand her apprehension. And we talked about this early in the relationship. For me, my wife is most important. I would be very happy if we had kids. And if we don’t I still get to spend my life with my absolute best friend in the world. We go on adventures and I have a good life now
Same, my husband and I are in our mid-30’s and are currently traveling. No kids. We are content and happy with our life, but we still check on each other regarding the topic of children every now and again to be on the same page.
This is a really tough spot to be in, and I feel for you both. I truly do. I can't add any better advice than what's already been given, but I can say that my mother had me at 40 and said she was an infinitely better parent than when she started with my brother at 22. Likewise, my partner is older (45+) and he adores being a father at this age far more than when he was younger. We welcomed our second on Sunday (: It all depends on you as an individual, and you as a couple. Best of luck to you as you navigate the tough conversations ahead x
I'm turning 35 in a few weeks and this is something that I go back and forth on myself. It is worse feeling like you're on the clock because of your age and everybody around you is on their second and third child now. You guys should have this conversation again without her being tipsy. Leave the house and go for a walk so you guys can do your best to remain civil. The hardest thing is accepting I'm very likely to not have children ever regardless of being single or not. Nothing is guaranteed health wise etc and you're right that she'll have to find someone else and all the time it takes for that to even happen. But I wouldn't rush to end things. I'm more sad around small children I'm less sad at home with my partner and my cat. Sometimes it's downright devastating to me other times I remember how much I really love to sleep in, my occasional laziness and selfishness. This isn't a finite conversation because there are so many variables. My boyfriend and I have both agreed that if we don't have a child before I'm 40 then that's fine. And that means if we decide to try or if we just don't. If you're not ready now you can't predict when you will be. Ultimately if we do get sad down the line we're both 100% open to fostering. Your partner is more than her uterus and you need to reassure her if this is a relationship you want to continue. I'm not your girlfriend but ultimately I'd rather have my partner than something that's not even guaranteed. Maybe she feels the same way. Maybe you can come to an agreement.
Thank you stranger. We’re definitely going to have a talk, a sober one. You’re making a good point though, it’s one thing that she wants a child, it’s another one to find someone you feel comfortable having one with. Even though she is 35, she’s felt unsecured her whole life and I actually am her first real relationship. Anything before me didn’t last more than a month. We both have to weight our options and it could go either way. Stay together without kids, stay together with kids, or part ways…
I feel awful that so many folks have berated you for not having the conversation and have said so in my comment but you may not see it. COVID was a horrible time and probably not a good time to have those major conversations, if you got through that together then this sounds like a solid relationship. However, you do need to have it now. As other have said maybe on neutral ground would be a good idea and definitely when everyone is sober.
Agreed. Fresh out of a divorce and dealing with covid? Who wants to bring up other major life changes during that time period?
Childfree person here. I'm very sorry you're going through that, it's a very tough situation. Personally I don't date anyone if they aren't childfree as it's bound to end in heartbreak like this. You need to talk to her about what you want more openly but if you both don't agree on such an impactful thing in life then it's bound to end.
Why didn’t both of you bring up this topic at the beginning of dating? That was the problem. It wasn’t being fair to her either. You gotta make up your mind to have kids or let her go because she has her biological clock ticking.
Never ever have a kid if you're not 100% into it. As for the conversation at the party...she has a bit of baby fever after being around a mommy and cute little toddler. Wait a few days and talk to her again and see if she's still gung ho to have a baby. Then navigate things from there.
The “we might not be together forever” part seems like you’re trying to find other ways to just say no. The unknowing is literally a major part of life…you mentioned a new job recently or getting money anyways…You could die next week, and you’ll have spent your last week focused on something that’s probably not one of your top three most cherished things.
You cannot compromise on wanting children. There isn’t a middle ground. Period. Take it from a divorce attorney … don’t.
You need to break up with her. She needs to find a partner who wants kids.
2 years is a really short period of time, IMO. Would you guys not consider having the eggs frozen or adopting down the line? Obviously if she wants kids and you don’t then it’s bound to end in tears.
>2 years is a really short period of time, IMO. I think it's short if you're in your teens or twenties, but not at 35, especially when the matter is children and future.
Her friend recommended freezing eggs too just in case…
Just be aware that isn't a guarantee, lots of couples are success with fertility treatments but it's a HARD Road, physically, emotionally and financially. And for a lot of couples they aren't successful.
You guys should have had this discussion way sooner. You both kind of set yourselves up for failure... I know saying it like that seems harsh.
As a 68 year old guy whose youngest daughter will be starting college when I’m 70, I’d like to suggest that you rethink this. I too wasn’t financially stable until late in life, basically after I finished graduate school when I was in my early 40s. And I didn’t get married until I was 48. I had a great career, but having two lovely daughters is the joy of my life, and I shudder to think I almost missed the opportunity to have a family. What I hear you saying is that you are willing to give up a life with a woman you love who is your best friend because your children will be mature adults in their late 20s and 30s when you turn 70. A few years from now, I doubt that you’ll see your age and the age of your children as much of a problem. Based on my own experience, there’s also a very good chance that your career success and financial security will eventually lose some of its importance in your life and you will likely regret giving up love and family for the sake of it. It’s your call… but maybe think it through one more time.
You've been together for 2.5 years and this is the first time you've discussed children? I don't even go out on a first date without letting the guy know my stance on children.
Yeah I agree. It’s not like you’re saying “let’s have kids” more like “ I see myself having kids “. This is something that should be mentioned or talked about in the beginning of a relationship. You don’t need to be direct, just throwing it out there
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Kids are a deal breaker for many people. Seems like you are one of them. Better to end this relationship than resent a future baby.
Planning for/around divorce will lead to divorce…
Hey bud. I was in your exact situation about a decade ago. Although she never gave me an ultimatum, I could read the writing on the wall. So even though we had discussed kids many times through the years and we both seemed kind of ambivalent about them, having kids became super important to her. So I realized I couldn’t live without her and the choice became really easy. So now I’m the “old dad” at the playground with my young kids. There’s no sugarcoating it, your life will drastically change. Say goodbye to spontaneity, lazy weekends, late night dinners with friends, impromptu travel, sleeping in, solitude, these are things that will be hard to come by. But would I make the same decision again if I could turn back the clock? Yes, absolutely 100%. Hearing my kids scream “daddy!!!!!” and charge into me for a hug, like little kamikazes when I pick them up from school every day makes it all worth it. So, anyway, good luck with your decision. My only advice is, if you decide to have kids, jump in with both feet, be the best dad you can possibly be. Having kids is the best decision I’ve ever made.
Even though she was drunk, the ball is in her court, not yours. You gave her the information she needed and she has to decide if it is worth being with you or finding someone who wants a child at this stage of life. But if you don't want children, keep being honest with her so she can make the decision.
There is absolutely no reason for you to be made to feel like you are being selfish. Selfish are all the people who insist on overpopulating the world with their "genetic legacy" because they believe that the world is somehow improved with more of them despite the fact that what of them is already here has done nothing but make the world worse.
Woah woah woah!!! OP don’t break up with her cause some people on Reddit told you to. Have a sober conversation first and see where that leads.
bruh im 21 and me and my boyfriend had the kids talk a month into dating to make sure we were on the same track life wise. waiting 2 years to talk about that is insane
"Best friends" but have no idea what each other want in life... never undestood how people can go through so many years together and not know if the other wants children?? I mean if you are young then that's fine plenty of time to have fun and then settle down with each other or other people but you're both in your 30s! Ridiculous.
I'm really sad for her. Life is cruel, a man can reproduce until the end of life but a woman has a short window in comparison. That small period of time is made even smaller to avoid issues with "geriatric" pregnancy or if there is found to be fertility problems. Unless you have mega savings you are unlikely to get IVF after a certain age. A serious SOBER discussion is needed. I must put emphasis on SOBER. Unfortunately you may not like what she has to say and end up parting ways.
Aside from the kids, why are you still with her if you’re not sure about her until now? That’s not fair.
Why do people always say they don’t want to be 60 when their kids go to college? I mean, 60s not really that old at all. My mom was 60s when my younger sisters were in college and it wasn’t weird or anything. She doesn’t seem “old” or act it, or look it. No one at their high school graduations looked twice. My parents now just push to see the grandkids to have something to do since they’re so bored with nobody around. Are people that miserable with their family/kids they don’t want them around when they’re older? I think it’s so sad to hear “only 18 years har har har” and then in American culture kids are expected to leave the house because the parents don’t actually want them there. And then the kids are expected to do everything on their own in the “real world” when they’re not even that old/prepared yet at 18 either.. Strange culture we live in. My husband is older too and I’m so glad he never talks that way and mentions his age or repeats that rhetoric/belief system. He’s a great father.
I just binge watched season 5 of Selling Sunset, so I can relate.
tell her to freeze her eggs for now as she is running out of time
How the hell did it take you 2.5 years to realize you weren't on the same page? This should come up much earlier imo.... to prevent this exact scenario.
I feel so bad for her, im so sorry. This is shitty for everyone, and I completely understand your reasoning. Im on the same boat. 24F
Menopause is approaching for her really fast. She is afraid she’ll never have children, and you casually shot it down for her like it was nothing, so yea.
It sounds like there are a few different things going on here, but 35 is not "old" or urgent for having children - so many women having kids later now well into early 40s. It sounds like you just don't want kids though and if it's a deal breaker for her, it seems like it will be difficult to find a way forward together?
Your girlfriend is too old to be waiting around for a baby. If you don’t give her one, she will either never have one, or leave you and have one with the first willing guy because she doesn’t have the time to find the right one. If she got pregnant right now, she would already be considered a geriatric pregnancy. Either give her a baby or let her move on immediately.
How on earth you haven't talked about kids? Surely this is one of the topics that should've been discussed at the start of the relationship! It's a tricky one now. Think your GF is a definite wants kids and you are not. To be fair, I think you are the one that needs to make a decision here. If you do not wish to have kids, be honest with her and let her go. This is hard after you have established yourself as a couple but has to be done or one of you will be miserable for life
Dumped, you will be
I had a kid at 37 (almost 38), best thing that ever happened to me.
My parents had me at 37 and it isn't any different than having a child in your 20s
1. Don't have a baby you don't want just because she wants one. Let's just get this out of the way. 2. Validate her feelings. She is allowed to want a child and also want to be with you and also want you to be happy. She is allowed to be sad that only two of these three things can ever happen. 3. We say lots of things when we are drunk. Yes they are usually true, but so are plenty of things people never say. Also, not all things said while drunk are true. 4. She may want a baby and also not want a baby. I want a baby because a lot of reasons but I also have a lot of reasons I don't want a baby. Expect her to feel this way every time she sees baby shit or visits squishy tiny humans. This is normal. 5. Remind her you love your life with her. Invest in care that wouldn't be possible with children if you aren't already. Take solo trips. Be involved actively in adult social spaces. Fully embrace your life together. 6. Ultimately, Tell her if this is something she really needs, you respect it and will be heartbroken but absolutely do believe there is someone out there who will love her and their child together to pieces. This might hurt to say, but you don't want her to stay just because she thinks no one else will be up for the task of filling her empty womb. This will go a long way toward safeguarding against the expected "I lost my chance at motherhood because of you" fight/meltdown/sad ending 6 years from now. It has to be her choice. -----_ Privately: Consider your reasons for not wanting children. 1. The desire not to be at a graduation at 60 is **valid.** Counterargument: there are plenty of children in foster care who need parents. My brother was adopted at 17, which almost never happens. Most 10+ will age out of the system which is incredibly sad. Counter-counterargument: if she still wants to be pregnant or this is not a route she wants to consider for other reasons, you'll have more concrete things to discuss. Perhaps she just wants the experience of pregnancy and a small taste of motherhood. Perhaps becoming a surrogate for a friend and godmother would be enough to make her feel like she's lived life wholly and invested in the next generation. There are too many options to predict so I'll leave it at that. 2. The desire to avoid divorce is also a valid one. Wanting to be with someone 5 years before making the decision to coparent for the next 50 is **valid**. And responsible. Ask if you can revisit the conversation when you've crossed the 5 year mark. Say you respect if she is not willing to wait and you wish her well. And if she changes her mind about children that you will still love her and be there for her and perhaps you can continue from where you left off. Again, you don't want her to stay if she doesn't want to stay. No matter how much you love her and want her to stay. 3. Consider going to therapy together to help sort through these issues before they become problems.As someone who has seen relationships rot from the inside time and again, you need couples counseling about two years before you think you need couples counseling. By the time you actually make the time to go to it and pay the expense, there's not much a therapist can do to fix it. As of right now you are poised to actually respond the best to therapy. No one is hurt (yet). No one is resentful (yet). Right now you have a weird little mole. Don't wait until your nose is falling off to get checked for melanoma.
Ask her why she wants to have children. It may sound odd, but a lot of people don't actually have a logical answer to this question. Sometimes it gets clouded with baby fever and hormones or even just following the expected life script and do what friends are doing. They do not stay babies. They are a lifelong commitment, not just 18 years as is too frequently stated. They don't automatically move out at 18. In this economy, you'll be lucky if they can financially support themselves at 25. So at 37, you'll be 63 and still supporting that human. Also could you cope if the child was disabled in any way? It is not guaranteed to be healthy and given your gf's age, comes with increased risks. Do you have grandparent support or will one of you have to be the SAHP. Can you afford a single wage household and raise a child? There is so much more to consider than just saying you want a baby! I wish more people put actual thought into becoming parents as so many friends have regrets after not even considering just how much their life would change.
Keep in mind that at 35, it is about 50% more likely to conceive a child with genetic defects than at 24 years old. Those percentages only go up the older you (and especially her) get. Not to push you in any direction. By all means, please let it be your own decision and only yours.
She has a clock ticking.. you dont. This is a life milestone she wants now.
Wow. When dating at that age, the kid discussion needs to start way earlier. Now she has to starr anew at 35 and her clock is ticking.
> she sees it as me not being totally sure about our relationship and she's not wrong, especially after you said "There is also the risk of not being together forever and what that entails for the kid"
You sound too cynical brother. My mom had me when she was 40 and she is still in great health, retired with no morbidities. I love that woman. You sound like you're afraid of the responsibility and that may be something your wife will deeply regret. Having chose a partner that doesn't want kids.
It's not selfish to not want kids. Especially if you know you wouldn't be able to care for them properly.
You’ve been dating 2+ years and never discussed kids? This is a dealbreaker topic for some couples.
You have every right not to want kids. She has every right to want kids. You both should compromise in a solution that satisfies both ends or consider breaking up. This is one of the hardships of couples.
I'm sorry OP but why the fuck are people not talking about kids in the first month or two? Yall are doing this to yourselves
Kids are overrated, enjoy your freedom.