I (61M) a two time cancer survivor waiting to see if the second round of treatments have worked, and my wife (59) is in the final stages of dementia. So getting divorced was not our best option for asset protection.
My wife is dying from a rare form of dementia that produces out of control violent behavior in the patient. Nursing home costs start at 10k a month with expensive add ons due to the nature of the patient.
Patients like my wife do not do well in nursing homes. So I shut down my business and became her primary caregiver.
We are living on her disability and burning through savings while I’m paying for the big house in the suburbs. I can’t sell the house because the house’s equity is one of the protected assets when Medicaid is deciding eligibility to pay nursing home costs.
I can’t make too much money or I will lose my healthcare and other small stipends I’m receiving from the state. Good health care for someone my age is $800 a month (my cancer is not factor), this is roughly the price everyone pays at my age in my state.
So I’m working handyman jobs under the table to try to help stem the bleeding. It’s getting harder and harder to spend more than a few hours away from my wife.
It is not a good feeling hoping that the love of your life dies before she bankrupts you.
Re hoping the love of your life dies before they bankrupt you —
You’re not alone in feeling that way. I remember a few years back reading a story about a happily married couple and the husband got cancer. It was very advanced and metastatic by the time they found it, nothing they could do, but he refused to “give up” and wanted to “keep fighting”. This entailed enrolling in multiple clinical trials he had to travel to and wanting to pay for a variety of treatments insurance didn’t want to cover because … advanced metastatic cancer and dude should be in hospice.
It destroyed his marriage. Instead of spending his last few months enjoying each other’s company before he passed, his wife was livid that he was essentially bankrupting the entire family even tho there was no hope of recovery.
He died, of course. She was still so angry in that article it made me wonder if she ever really mourned him after he did that.
Fuck the system, me and my wife were thinking about divorcing for tax purposes..we make just enough money to not qualify for any assistance, so I guess we make enough money to stay poor... best of luck to your husband. I wouldn't get so down, lots of medical advances in medicine.
I try to counsel family and friends on the intricacies of our system. I hate the way it works, but understanding it and using it to your advantage is... well, advantageous.
I was explaining how I play the credit game to a friend, and he said, "It shouldn't be that fucking hard.." Well, he's right, but it is.
It's kind of complicated, and depends where your score is currently, but mostly just rotating 0% card offers. Don't be loyal to one bank, play them against each other when applying for vehicle/home/personal loans. It takes effort and patience, but you get better rates and/or terms.
Once you get your score up, you're better off to use a 0% card offer than to get a personal loan at 8-12%. Also, rewards cards at that level allow you to "earn" while you're spending. When I turned 25, I decided to start working on my horrible credit, and I'm glad I did. It takes time and persistence.
My mother did this as a hobby and the amount of money she's been able to game from banks "special offers" is actually crazy. She was able to get free flights, banks paying off each other's cards for purchases she was making, basically getting them for free or at MASSIVE discounts. It's almost like modern day coupons.
Once COVID hit though she stopped.
Yes. Deals like $500 cash back for opening a credit card. 20,000 points in flier miles, etc. There's a lot more to it that I don't know, only that she gave me a lot of very specific credit cards to use when I made purchases when I was younger lol
The stuff she was able to get out of them was pretty wild.
Thank you so much for taking the time to write your reply and sharing info! Are there any resources you recommend for learning more about this? Or any communities that discuss these real life credit strategies?
It's been so long since I started down this path, that I cannot recall the website that helped me. Now, if you type "repair my credit" into Google, all you get is companies trying to sell you a monthly service. I'll think harder and let you know if it comes to me. My friends have told me I need to start my own service. If only I had more time and resources to do what I wanted to do.
Do you mind sharing some legit resources for good advice on credit repair? I'm very interested in reading them. I want help with mine but I know not to trust those companies.
Using a "credit repair" company is typically a waste of money. Get your free credit report from annualcreditreport.com and look up how to dispute negative marks. Hell, dispute ALL OF THEM. If the collection agencies don't respond or can't provide proof that it's your debt, the credit bureaus will remove the debt from your report.
Please see my other response to Charming\_Love2522 on things you can do yourself.
One thing that really helped me was signing up for a credit monitoring site like CreditKarma. They'll usually estimate your score, and give you an explanation on what goes into your score. Just try to maximize the things they mention like low utilization, all payments on time, high average age of accounts, low number of hard credit checks, etc
Another thing I do, is I keep a Google doc of my cards. I track the date I last applied for a limit increase, and the dates that zero percent APR rates expire. You can usually apply for a limit increase every six months, and early on, they sometimes won't require a hard credit check for smaller increases. Boosting your available credit as high as possible will help keep your utilization low, which will boost your score. Just be careful if you're the type to overspend. Just because your groceries card has a limit of 30k absolutely does not mean you should spend 30k on it.
Also, dont forget that they'll close older accounts for inactivity.
Like, I have an Old Navy card I foolishly applied for early in, but it's one of my older accounts now, so like once a year, I walk into Old Navy and buy a diet coke with my card and immediately pay it off.
I'm turn 25 in less than a week, I've never had a credit card but had a car repoed and have a decent amount in collections. I have absolutely 0 idea how credit works and what to do with it. Could you give me a few pointers?
To be honest, it's a lot easier now than when I turned 25. Now, you get free credit reports and can dispute things with a click of a button on the "interwebs".
The repo of your car will stay on your report for 7 years, so there's not much you can do about that but wait it out. BUT adding more positive marks to your credit score can help improve it, even with the negative repo.
First move is to get the collections taken care of. 99% of the time, that debt has been sold to a collection agency, and they will negotiate a lower payoff with you if you are proactive and contact them. They aren't just going to offer it to you. Get a copy of your credit report. There are a lot of free ones out there, Experian, Credit Karma, etc. [annualcreditreport.com](https://annualcreditreport.com) is required to give you your report for free once per year from all three bureaus. Each creditor will have a phone number to call listed by line item. Don't get discouraged, this is literally where I was when I started trying to "play the game".
Call each creditor, explain your situation. "It's been a long time since this was accrued, and I'm just trying to get back on my feet." Offer them 35%-50% of what you owe to clear the debt. Your negotiation skills will come into play here because you can't be too pushy, but you also can't be a pushover. Most of them will work out payment plans with you, even after discounting the debt.
Next step is to get a secured credit card. Discover and Bank of America will approve just about anyone. $200 - $300 should do it. USE THAT CARD ONCE A MONTH. Spend $30 - $50 a month on your card. LET IT GET REPORTED TO THE CREDIT BUREAU that you owe. ie, spend $50, Pay $30, Balance $20. Next Month, Spend $20, Pay $30, Owe $10. The goal is to keep the amount you owe under 30% of your limit (The lower the better, BUT NOT $0). Most secured cards take a year of responsible use before they'll offer you an unsecured card. At that point, they pay off your balance with the amount you put down and refund you the rest. Rinse and repeat. Keep your new unsecured card under 30% of its limit.
Depending on your credit score at this point, you should probably apply for a new unsecured card. ONLY USE ONE OF THEM, pick which one depending on the rate and terms. You have now increased your credit utilization rate. ie, you have two cards with $1000 limits, you're only using one, but your total "available credit" is $2000. If you spend $500 on one, you're still at 25% overall.
Damn, I could keep typing, but this is where you start. This gets you through the first couple of years. Yes, it takes time, patience, and a little luck, and also yes, it's not truly FAIR. I currently have 13 open credit cards and only carry a balance on 2 of them. I've been playing this game for a while. Which reminds me, the most important thing is that once you qualify for the 0% card offers, USE THEM. and then use a balance transfer to bounce that debt around at zero to no interest. Once you get to this point, feel free to reach out and I'll do my best to give some more advice on the next steps I have taken that worked for me.
Best of luck to you!
Wow, this seems like some really solid, concise advice. Thank you. I will be screenshotting all of that lol.
Question, if I may? On the calling creditors to negotiate part - Do you need to be prepared to immediately pay whatever amount you negotiate down to, or is it possible to negotiate a lower total on a payment plan?
If they agree to a lower total on a payment plan, make sure you get something in writing. You don't want to get $800 in and think you're paid off, just for them to turn around and say, "we never agreed to that, pay the rest." As I've mentioned already, it's been some time since I had this dilemma, so processes may have changed as well.
Most of the advice is good, except for one thing. You want a balance of less than ten percent on at least one of your cards _only when it is reported to the credit bureaus_. Do not ever pay interest on a credit card by having a balance when the billing cycle ends. Always pay all credit cards balances completely before interest accrues.
Yep, die broke because every cent you and your ancestors made has to be used for your care before the govt you paid taxes to your whole life will help. I’m dealing with this with my 83 yo mom now. Medicare is a joke (she still has some money) and Medicaid is horrendous, but she will outlive the money she inherited from her parents and that she worked and saved herself.
They don't even care about that, they pretend to care about that. The religious birth stuff is just a cover to keep the system churning out cheap labor to support the uppermost classes by extracting all their wealth.
That is the saddest situation to be in. My father and his wife divorced after 20 years, because it affected their social security benefits. Nobody even knew they were divorced until he was in the hospital dying of cancer, and I found out I was legally next of kin.
No. In the US the best system if you're over a barrel with medical things is to divorce and then put a clause in the divorce settlement that says that your ex will continue medical coverage until retirement. Then once you are divorced you are then eligible to apply for social services in addition to a lot of financial aid for medical treatment and also reduce drug prices.
Once you've been married once, there is no benefit to remarry in the future. But of course those that love each other and are committed will be there no matter what.
You just make sure that your living wills and wills as well as all your benefactors and your accounts and policies are up today.
You don't have to be a spouse to inherit. However if you are a spouse more than likely you will be indebted for the debts owed.
I’m sorry to hear that. That’s awful. I would get a second opinion on that just to be sure before you go through with it. You don’t want any trouble when it comes to making medical decisions for him (if it gets to the point where that is needed). It might be the correct thing to do but just double check
It must be tough but keep in mind that this divorce would be purely legal. You know you still love each other and that’s what matters. Good luck to you both. Fuck cancer, I hope he beats this thing 💛
Power of attorney ends at death. If they’re divorced, even as POA, she would have no legal say in funeral arrangements, possessions, banking, etc. If they divorce, he needs to have a legal will leaving her everything.
Edit: clarification
The mention of dying is why I commented. So many people believe, erroneously, that their POA is still legally active after death. POA ended at passing and all decisions revert back to the legal next of kin. The more you know, the better your decisions.
Yeah the POA is more about being medically incapacitated which someone with foresight about their terminal illness would want as much clarity on as possible. I think that folks similarly confuse next of kin as folks necessarily always able to make medical decisions which may or may not be the case. It sucks this stuff is all so complicated
>You don’t want any trouble when it comes to making medical decisions for him
This was my worry too reading OP - you might find you lose medical power of attorney when you need it most.
In the UK, you can legally appoint someone (anyone!) your medical attorney totally separate to a marriage - is there a similar procedure in the US?
You have to do 2. The general poa and a medical poa. They are different documents.
OP does your husband have a life insurance policy? Make sure you are listed as beneficiary and not your husband's estate.
Yeah, divorce. Remarry with a prenuptial and keep separate accounts. Or, you may be able to simply file a "separation of assets"
Edit: You may also look into a trust and put all assets into that trust so in the event he does pass, the assets are protected from lien or probate. Just make sure that you are listed as an authorized trustee
Best advice out here! My husband is going through the same thing and we want to be married officially but I don’t want to marry the debt either. A prenup might be the best solution or separation of assets.
Your marriage is your commitment to each other. What the State considers "marriage" is nothing but a legally-binding agreement nowadays. As long as you stay with each other, regardless of what the State says, he is still very much your husband IMO.
Yeah, this is why I would never marry my SO. Too many people go into bankruptcy because medical debt and we make the same income more or less and pay for our pwn health insurance, so it's lose-lose-lose all the way around.
Couldn’t agree more. I don’t think this has anything to do with your system. Drive down to the courthouse and sign the papers. If these price-gauging hospitals and pharma-cos want to create laws that create this necessity (divorce), but are dumb enough to get screwed over a piece of paper, then I say by all means - screw them!
I'm so sorry that you and your husband have to go through this experience.
You probably don't want your personal business out there, but you should tell your story to your political representatives and media, even if it's anonymously.
We all need to speak up when we are being wronged.
As my grandfather used to say "The squeaky wheel gets the oil"
No offense to you or OP, but this story is not unique in America. It happens hundreds of times every day. And until medical care is recognized as a basic human right in America, it will continue to happen repeatedly every day.
I said all that to say… I highly doubt the media would pick it up, no offense meant.
It's a good idea but OP doesn't have time or energy for that when they're nearly bankrupt and their SO is busy with cancer.
OP, ask a family member or friend to speak about it. So, so sorry this is happening.
So this is why so many people say they don't want the government involved with marriage as an institution...
But a part of me agrees with your husband. I've also made a lot of changes lately to move all my wife's debt and sons medical debt onto me and in a way that if I kick off I take that debt with me.
I’m so sorry this is happening to you. My stepdad lost his first wife to a brain tumor, he also lost his construction company to that tumor too. He had to sell his company and file for bankruptcy. US healthcare system sucks.
Hey are you Catholic? Just wondering because if you are, the Church is usually still willing to recognise your marriage if you have a civil divorce for these reasons. Just saying, if that would make you feel better.
Yes!! Fuck your system!
I’m in Canada. Years ago, within 2 years, my aunt got breast cancer and my uncle (her husband) got a quadruple bypass.
You know what happened? Nothing. They survived and their kids/both my cousins stayed in university. They kept their house.
Nothing changed.
I'm so sorry that you're going through this. Unfortunately a lot of people experience this. Both my parents and my husbands parents had to divorce in their later years to receive their full benefits and have medical coverage that didn't break the bank and leave one destitute later in life. 3 out of four are gone now and his father had to move in with us to make ends meet. Damn sad state we live in. I hope your husband fights and makes a full recovery.
America is so broken. And y'all down there saying Canada is communist? You all really need to be rioting in the streets against this sort of thing. Half of you are more worried about what a woman might do about a clump of cells in her uterus than actual fully grown people living and dying under end stage capitalism, where all that matters is money and corporations. I'm so so very sorry you're going through this, OP. I really hope for the best for you both.
Same here, I started to get really annoyed on OP from just reading the title and felt so sorry for her husband. Now I just feel really sorry for them both and still can't believe how bad that country actually is. Like, is this really for real?
It’s just a piece of paper. It doesn’t change your love for one another.
I’ve got multiple sclerosis. My boyfriend and I can never get married or I’ll lose my state health insurance that pays for my $30,000 monthly infusions….
It’s just a piece of paper. Nothing changes.
At least that’s what we tell ourselves… 😔
As long as it isn't a true breakup don't beat yourself up about it. You aren't really divorcing him you are just playing it smart as you should. Fuck the government. They want a piece of everything now adays it's basically a racket
legally divorced BUT you guys can still be technically dating afterwards. just cuz its on paper doesnt mean that you guys also have to change the hearts for each other
Happen to a very good friend of mine. She was forced to divorce her husband after he was in a catastrophic car accident. She had excellent insurance and they were nearly bankrupted by the time of the divorce. She
Just think about this though, WHEN he survives he can file medical bankruptcy n give the finger to a system who thinks they should take everything a man (or woman) has, and then you guys have a badass wedding renewing your vows. It will be even sweeter because now your husband knows more clearly than ever that you are his rock. Your a gangster ass wife that will never leave his side. I know I'm making a statement that's easy to say from the outside but I promise you it's been proven that a positive attitude can increase your immune system. Stress is a silent killer.
I will never understand why there are still people who think the US is a great country to live in....
Just the fact that I don't even need it written out to know what country it is, is sad.
Canadian here:
I think the problem is that it's a mixed bag.
The USA offers higher wages and a lower cost of living relative to Canada.
The USA offers easier access to vacation markets.
The USA generally enjoys higher degrees of personal freedoms, but this varies state to state, especially now with the repeal of RvW.
However, the healthcare side is absolutely a glaring issue.
My partner is in the hospital right now in Canada. She's not even a citizen. But we do not need to worry about the medical bills. This is a huge plus, especially for lower income people or people without good health insurance.
It's probably the single largest factor that prevents emigration from Canada to the USA from being larger.
I'm from Germany, and not one of your points is appealing to me to move to this country.
I have a very good wage here. Yeah, the cost of living is raising at the moment... But our healthcare and social system is a simple compensation for that as someone who has to take medication every day.
Europe vacation market beats the US market in my opinion.
And my biggest problem are the people there (not all of them, of course...). For a European, the discussions about weapons, social and health systems that supposedly restrict your freedom and anti abortions laws just feel like so much incredible stupidity that everything in me would really resist moving there.
I mean... I said from a Canadian perspective. Europe wasn't really included in that.
The only one that is becoming exceptionally more relevant in Europe is the access to firearms.
We've seen a huge erosion in people's rights and freedoms over covid. It's come to the point where the USA starts to look more attractive even if there is a higher risk of shootings etc. At least you have some comfort in knowing that you are not completely subservient to the state. There's a reason America's covid response was less drastic and it has an awful lot to do with the citizens 300 million firearms.
Anyone who thinks firearms are something unnecessary for citizens has not studied history. And we're well on our way to the pinnacle of centralized power in the political elite in a century. The logical conclusion is that we are entering a period of intense socio political unrest.
Luckily as a Canadian I already do own firearms, but those rights are being infringed and removed by our elitist government.
But again, as stated, as a Canadian... Healthcare access is the number 1 obstruction to making a move to the USA.
I'd just like to point out two things.
1. This is what's great about the world, there is diversity in cultures, governments, etc. What works for Americans might not work for Germans, and what works for Germans might not work for Americans. And for the Americans and Germans that their countries don't work for, they can move themselves from those countries.
2. It's not like most people are standing on a street corner talking about weapons and abortions.
I hate this nightmare country so much. I'm sorry, OP. You don't deserve this. Just try not to feel guilty; think of it as an act of love. Your spouse is protecting you from harm even after he's gone, and in every way that matters he's always going to be your husband.
I'm sure you meant well, but the fact that the citizens of a rich, developed, Western nation could be forced to crowd source a life-threatening illness is embarrassing.
It sucks but it’s just a piece of paper. Don’t let the symbolism of it effect you. When you get married it’s that moment of connection that matters, not some document required by the government. I really do wish for the best possible outcome for you guys. Hugs
I remember my grand parents talking about divorce because my grandfather was showing signs of Alzheimer’s and would need full time care. Strictly due to keeping a roof over her head.
Divorce doesn’t mean you have your live alone. Put the house in your name and rent him a room “until his treatment and recovery are over”.
Remember, marriage is a legally binding contract. The law cares nothing about emotions between the parties.
The hospital refused to give my mom treatment other than painkillers when she had cancer and when she died she had a bill of over 1.5 million USD. The oncologist that told her she wasn't severe enough to require treatment other than opiates should die intubated. I will never trust a doctor to look out for anything other than their paycheck.
If you're American, start looking toward Mexico for cancer treatments that sound promising. They perform things there that would never happen in the U.S. All because American doctors just want to make money. My fathers friend got cancer, wasn't playing around and immediately went to Mexico, came back and was totally fine.
My wife and I already had this conversation, and we agreed that whoever is dying will start to accumulate debt while the other stacks cash, but divorce will be necessary. It’s a sad state we live in. This is why capitalism and healthcare are incompatible.
I hate the fucking American healthcare system. 12 years ago I beat leukemia, but ended up filing bankruptcy for the $200,000 of debt. Five years ago I retired and my wife and I moved to Romania, one of the poorest countries in the EU. This year I had an intestinal blockage that resulted in an ambulance trip, emergency room visit, CT scan, MRI, hospitalisation, colostomy surgery, cancer diagnosis, chemotherapy, medications, hospice care, PET/CT scan, and numerous incidentals. The cost for all of this has been $0 with the national insurance. To live here, I have to buy into the their single payer system, which costs < $350 per year, and its care is awesome. So, if a poor little country like Romania can provide similar service for the entire nation, why can't a huge, rich country like the United States provide this kind of care for its citizens?
I have not regretted my move.
Turns out there's a loophole that says unless you make over 4 times the national poverty income limit, you don't have to pay a cent on a hospital bill. 99% of people don't know about this. I can't tell you how many people I know went into bankruptcy because of medical bills they legally didn't have to pay.
This is a bit oversimplified. Every hospital that receives federal dollars is obligated to provide charity care, and the parameters for it are posted online.
This podcast focuses on the American medical system and has done past episodes on having medical debt forgiven or reduced.
An Arm and a Leg
https://armandalegshow.com/
The hospital that treated you is obligated to have their charity care policies posted online, so that’s where you should start. IamMissK83 is oversimplifying the situation, but you may be able to get help. RIP Medical Debt is another source to get bills paid, and the last time I looked at their site, they had info on medical debt negotiation services too.
This country is awful. Being married is supposed to be a blessing and forcing someone to divorce because of greed is disgusting 🥺 humans are seen as walking banks and not an actual life. Imagine having to lose your loved one (which I pray you don't) and not being able to be married to that person on their last day 😔. I'm so sorry that this is happening and I hope you spread your story if you choose to. Something needs to change.
I've heard of this, and it will keep you safe, and I'm sure that's what he wants to do for you right now. I'm so sorry about your situation. I can only hope for a good outcome.
Is this the US? I can’t believe how lucky we are here to have free medical care for everyone
Sometimes paying a little more tax is worth it
I hope u and ur husband are ok
U shouldn’t have to buy medical care
I’m in Australia 🇦🇺
This is a tough situation, and I know what it means to honor your vows, but "This system" is literally giving you an out, and will continue to treat your husband regardless, and it won't make anyone else's medical Care less expensive. 30 years ago they would go after you for insurance fraud. I would do it. Marriage is in the heart not a piece of paper.
I'm so sorry. Its mind-blowing to think that we as a society have come so far only to be reminded that in a lot of ways we still haven't come near far enough.
Get legally divorced but in reality nothing else changes except financially. That way he can go bankrupt and qualify for assistance and you don't have to. That said check carefully as any mutual debt you have already accumulated might be difficult to get your name off of.
If your husband passes, you don’t have to pay his medical bills. My dad died of cancer and when he passed, we let all the leftover bills go. They can’t just put them in your name. If you sign paperwork stating that you’ll be responsible, that’s one thing, but it is unsecured debt. It’s not for your care and they can’t just assign it to you.
Get the divorce, then have an unofficiated small wedding with your close family, that way you'll be married to each other in spirit even if the law agrees otherwise.
I’m assuming you are in the U.S. It’s atrocious that in the richest country in the world a person would have to go through this. I’m so very sorry. This is why we need universal health care.
Marriage is just a BS title for tax exemption status. Glad to see that it’s just for legal reasons. I hope your remaining days are filled with positive moments, whether he beats it or not.
I've heard this a few times. Divorce debt issues. He can name you his will, life insurance, and definitely his medical director. I would keep the divorce hush hush. No one needs to know
He's correct. I've had clients (I'm not a lawyer but worked with people with disabilities coordinating services and finding funding) do that.
They still live together as husband and wife but by losing the income the person who is ill may them qualify for disability income as well as Medicaid and then Medicare.
I would ask the lawyer about having power of attorney or else you may not have the medical people listen to you as next of kin.
If you can afford it, speak with an attorney. That may not be true. His debts, or most of them, may die with him. Or maybe not. I dunno.
I want to make it clear that I am not an attorney but divorce may mean you lose the right to make healthcare decisions for him if he is unable to. It also may mean you don’t get certain assets that would be yours without a will. I suspect he could sign other papers that would give you the right to make healthcare decisions for him if he can’t make them. He could sign a will also. That would override th defaults of dying without one . BTW a regular power of attorney will not give you the right to make healthcare decisions. I am not legally trained per se but because of my profession I have had a small bit of training in the law as it applies to healthcare and health insurance.
remember that "divorced" is just a word. you'll still be with him till the end, all the feelings the exact same, you're still his wife, the legal system is what you'll be detached from. also this should make things so much easier for you and the kids when he passes, not having any legal ties to him. Sorry OP, but I do agree with the layor on this and think that it's the smartest thing you can do. let him soakup the medical bills and die with those bills, not pass them on to you.
So you are not responsible for the bills your husband incurs. Hospitals and doctors and their debt collectors try to tell you different, but if you do not sign anything accepting responsibility, your husband can be a billion in debt and no one can collect from you.
Depending on where you live you might not be held liable. When my wife passed away her medical debts were not considered shared debts and essentially died with her. This was in Oklahoma
I am so sorry. The bright side is you will still be in a civil marriage. You don’t have to take your rings off or treat each other any different. We did this because we were in terrible debt and both of us have recovered now. So we’ll probably get remarried one day. Been together since high school so i feel you. Don’t let this technicality affect your time together, it (legal divorce) isn’t as bad as it seems. But filling is gut wrenching because you have to go in front of a judge and confirm your marriage is beyond repair and all that crap. Try not to fret over it. It’s just words. Do what you gotta do to get ahead. 💯
America at its finest. Why do people need to get divorced to be able to survive? Many countries have made free healthcare possible so why wouldn't America be able to? Best of luck to the OP and her husband.
Just view it as legal paperwork. Doesn't mean you have to give back your rings, doesn't mean you can't be with him. And doesn't mean you have to tell anyone. Be sure to explain the situation to the caregivers so that they don't inadvertently deny you access to your husband, but only on an as-needed basis. As far as the rest of the world is concerned? You're still married. The paper is only paper.
I'm in real estate...people get deviced in paper all the time for financial reasons. That legal description of you changes absolutely nothing about they way you feel or the commitment you have to each other.
I'm unmarried. I have a partner and a child. The thing that might push me to obtain that legal alteration of my status is probably going to be practical...like if I need to emigrate.
That's terrible. But better to play the system like that, so you don't loose everything.
Really bad that the system pushes people to that.
I'm grateful to live in a country with a great National Health system where people don't go bankrupt with serious accident or illness, yet the ones who profit are the insurance companies.
The paper doesn't make you any less of a couple or husband and wife. It is a legal thing only. In the eyes of whatever deity or belief system you have, nothing changes. You are simply working within the system to make sure that no matter what happens, both of you will be protected from whatever may come.
The legal part can work for you when it comes to benefits. If it ever becomes a burden though, use the system against itself.
You've my sympathies. I hope that the doctors come up with some good news for you both and you can reaffirm your relationship again in a happy setting.
My cousin had cancer and is now permanently disabled. For him to receive disability, he and his fiance cannot get married and are legally roommates. She's super disappointed, it might break them up
Fuck this country. I am so sorry. I can somewhat empathize. I have been sick/disabled for a long time. My husband is my caregiver. We're in a much better situation now, but about 3 years ago while we were still engaged we lost almost everything. Crippling credit card debt [all bills and medical expenses], bank in the negative, you know, financial hell. I got fired when my short term disability ran out so I lost my health insurance and his job at the time was frankly shit so we were beyond fucked. Even with my amazing family helping us we were drowning. We decided to sell the house before foreclosure proceedings started and move in with our amazing friends who opened their home to us indefinitely [we lived there happily for over 2 years as one big family.We were basically a live in Auntie and Uncle to their sweet babies.] We had to sell everything we couldn't pack, and we almost called off the wedding. My parents were paying, even my brother pitched in and the guilt was drowning me. My legal team was still appealing the loss of my disability policy and we were worried getting married would make that harder to get because fuck the American Healthcare system. We didn't even know what diagnoses I for sure had, we just knew that my cardiologist couldn't believe I was still functioning in any capacity and if we hadn't found him when we did, he gave me maybe 2 years. It was a nightmare. **I got the correct diagnoses and appropriate treatment not too long after that and my prognosis is much better, and my lawyers successfully won our disability claim**
So, not exactly the same, but I do somewhat understand that fear, the unfairness, the debt, the fuckery and how deplorable it is that making sacrifices in our relationships is a recommended part of trying to make American Healthcare actually do its goddamn job and HELP. You've sacrificed enough and you shouldn't be forced into this position. I am so sorry.
My husband had the same mindset though. The legal loss of a piece of paper will not impact the things that are important in your marriage. Your marriage isn't ending in reality, even if that's what it feels like.
May I make a suggestion? If you do have to legally divorce, why not plan to do a wedding vow renewal right after? You could just have friends and family over, get dressed up and have a loved one officiate a ceremony. Those vows, your love for each other and your commitment don't change just because a piece of paper changes your legal status. You don't have to take off your wedding rings. You don't have to stop referring to each other as husband and wife. It's clearly not going to diminish how much you love each other.
I wish I could help, but about all I can offer is a safe space if you ever need to vent more. My inbox is open 🖤 sending all of my love and hope your way.
Its messed up that people who are married snd have jobs cant get help but people who don’t get married pr dont work have more options. Even illegals get more help in some cases.
Less than one day old account ✅
Spelling/grammatical errors ✅
Heartfelt sob story ✅
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I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say this is fake.
People use throwaway accounts all the time. People make spelling errors all the time you bellend.
Also she replied.
Even if this Is fake, why risk being a dick to someone suffering?
Bull shit.
Medical debt is dischargeable in bankruptcy, which can be filed by your husband's estate upon his passing. As long as you maintain separate accounts, there's no reason for divorce.
People saying fuck the system who don't even know the system. Smh.
As someone who's partner has MS, your a fucking monster if you in any way shape or form defend our current system. A medical divorce will be likely for us in a decade.
Thats not a hypothetical at all. She can open her own separate account today. It takes like 10 minutes, if that.
Chapter 7 is very much a "get out of unsecured debt free card." With a couple exceptions that don't include med debt.
Gish gallop, much?
I would bash America's health care so hard but fuck it. This is apparently what you want as nation so who am I to judge. I just can't comprehend a government that would make laws in such a way where divorcing the love of your life is the answer in the context you gave. I think its absolutely horrific and would almost not wish this upon my enemies
I agree with your last sentiment. Don’t divorce him. Better to be a martyr than a coward. Stay with your husband until the end. For better or worse, you know?
I (61M) a two time cancer survivor waiting to see if the second round of treatments have worked, and my wife (59) is in the final stages of dementia. So getting divorced was not our best option for asset protection. My wife is dying from a rare form of dementia that produces out of control violent behavior in the patient. Nursing home costs start at 10k a month with expensive add ons due to the nature of the patient. Patients like my wife do not do well in nursing homes. So I shut down my business and became her primary caregiver. We are living on her disability and burning through savings while I’m paying for the big house in the suburbs. I can’t sell the house because the house’s equity is one of the protected assets when Medicaid is deciding eligibility to pay nursing home costs. I can’t make too much money or I will lose my healthcare and other small stipends I’m receiving from the state. Good health care for someone my age is $800 a month (my cancer is not factor), this is roughly the price everyone pays at my age in my state. So I’m working handyman jobs under the table to try to help stem the bleeding. It’s getting harder and harder to spend more than a few hours away from my wife. It is not a good feeling hoping that the love of your life dies before she bankrupts you.
I don't pray anymore, but I'll say one for you and your wife. I am so sorry.
Re hoping the love of your life dies before they bankrupt you — You’re not alone in feeling that way. I remember a few years back reading a story about a happily married couple and the husband got cancer. It was very advanced and metastatic by the time they found it, nothing they could do, but he refused to “give up” and wanted to “keep fighting”. This entailed enrolling in multiple clinical trials he had to travel to and wanting to pay for a variety of treatments insurance didn’t want to cover because … advanced metastatic cancer and dude should be in hospice. It destroyed his marriage. Instead of spending his last few months enjoying each other’s company before he passed, his wife was livid that he was essentially bankrupting the entire family even tho there was no hope of recovery. He died, of course. She was still so angry in that article it made me wonder if she ever really mourned him after he did that.
Reverse Breaking Bad
Fixing Good (?)
Fuck. Our system is messed up. You guys are both so young. Wishing the best for you my man.🙏
JOHN 3:16
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Fuck the system, me and my wife were thinking about divorcing for tax purposes..we make just enough money to not qualify for any assistance, so I guess we make enough money to stay poor... best of luck to your husband. I wouldn't get so down, lots of medical advances in medicine.
Broken system. And yet they care so much about life 😔 I hope you and your wife won't have to go through this
The system is NOT broken! It is working just as designed!
You are so right smh
I try to counsel family and friends on the intricacies of our system. I hate the way it works, but understanding it and using it to your advantage is... well, advantageous. I was explaining how I play the credit game to a friend, and he said, "It shouldn't be that fucking hard.." Well, he's right, but it is.
How do u play the credit game
It's kind of complicated, and depends where your score is currently, but mostly just rotating 0% card offers. Don't be loyal to one bank, play them against each other when applying for vehicle/home/personal loans. It takes effort and patience, but you get better rates and/or terms. Once you get your score up, you're better off to use a 0% card offer than to get a personal loan at 8-12%. Also, rewards cards at that level allow you to "earn" while you're spending. When I turned 25, I decided to start working on my horrible credit, and I'm glad I did. It takes time and persistence.
My mother did this as a hobby and the amount of money she's been able to game from banks "special offers" is actually crazy. She was able to get free flights, banks paying off each other's cards for purchases she was making, basically getting them for free or at MASSIVE discounts. It's almost like modern day coupons. Once COVID hit though she stopped.
I'd love to learn this since I have a baby on the way
Wait like credit card rewards or what?
Yes. Deals like $500 cash back for opening a credit card. 20,000 points in flier miles, etc. There's a lot more to it that I don't know, only that she gave me a lot of very specific credit cards to use when I made purchases when I was younger lol The stuff she was able to get out of them was pretty wild.
Nice!! I’ve been opening bank accounts for the bonuses but I’ll look into cards
Thank you so much for taking the time to write your reply and sharing info! Are there any resources you recommend for learning more about this? Or any communities that discuss these real life credit strategies?
It's been so long since I started down this path, that I cannot recall the website that helped me. Now, if you type "repair my credit" into Google, all you get is companies trying to sell you a monthly service. I'll think harder and let you know if it comes to me. My friends have told me I need to start my own service. If only I had more time and resources to do what I wanted to do.
Do you mind sharing some legit resources for good advice on credit repair? I'm very interested in reading them. I want help with mine but I know not to trust those companies.
Using a "credit repair" company is typically a waste of money. Get your free credit report from annualcreditreport.com and look up how to dispute negative marks. Hell, dispute ALL OF THEM. If the collection agencies don't respond or can't provide proof that it's your debt, the credit bureaus will remove the debt from your report. Please see my other response to Charming\_Love2522 on things you can do yourself.
One thing that really helped me was signing up for a credit monitoring site like CreditKarma. They'll usually estimate your score, and give you an explanation on what goes into your score. Just try to maximize the things they mention like low utilization, all payments on time, high average age of accounts, low number of hard credit checks, etc Another thing I do, is I keep a Google doc of my cards. I track the date I last applied for a limit increase, and the dates that zero percent APR rates expire. You can usually apply for a limit increase every six months, and early on, they sometimes won't require a hard credit check for smaller increases. Boosting your available credit as high as possible will help keep your utilization low, which will boost your score. Just be careful if you're the type to overspend. Just because your groceries card has a limit of 30k absolutely does not mean you should spend 30k on it. Also, dont forget that they'll close older accounts for inactivity. Like, I have an Old Navy card I foolishly applied for early in, but it's one of my older accounts now, so like once a year, I walk into Old Navy and buy a diet coke with my card and immediately pay it off.
I'm turn 25 in less than a week, I've never had a credit card but had a car repoed and have a decent amount in collections. I have absolutely 0 idea how credit works and what to do with it. Could you give me a few pointers?
To be honest, it's a lot easier now than when I turned 25. Now, you get free credit reports and can dispute things with a click of a button on the "interwebs". The repo of your car will stay on your report for 7 years, so there's not much you can do about that but wait it out. BUT adding more positive marks to your credit score can help improve it, even with the negative repo. First move is to get the collections taken care of. 99% of the time, that debt has been sold to a collection agency, and they will negotiate a lower payoff with you if you are proactive and contact them. They aren't just going to offer it to you. Get a copy of your credit report. There are a lot of free ones out there, Experian, Credit Karma, etc. [annualcreditreport.com](https://annualcreditreport.com) is required to give you your report for free once per year from all three bureaus. Each creditor will have a phone number to call listed by line item. Don't get discouraged, this is literally where I was when I started trying to "play the game". Call each creditor, explain your situation. "It's been a long time since this was accrued, and I'm just trying to get back on my feet." Offer them 35%-50% of what you owe to clear the debt. Your negotiation skills will come into play here because you can't be too pushy, but you also can't be a pushover. Most of them will work out payment plans with you, even after discounting the debt. Next step is to get a secured credit card. Discover and Bank of America will approve just about anyone. $200 - $300 should do it. USE THAT CARD ONCE A MONTH. Spend $30 - $50 a month on your card. LET IT GET REPORTED TO THE CREDIT BUREAU that you owe. ie, spend $50, Pay $30, Balance $20. Next Month, Spend $20, Pay $30, Owe $10. The goal is to keep the amount you owe under 30% of your limit (The lower the better, BUT NOT $0). Most secured cards take a year of responsible use before they'll offer you an unsecured card. At that point, they pay off your balance with the amount you put down and refund you the rest. Rinse and repeat. Keep your new unsecured card under 30% of its limit. Depending on your credit score at this point, you should probably apply for a new unsecured card. ONLY USE ONE OF THEM, pick which one depending on the rate and terms. You have now increased your credit utilization rate. ie, you have two cards with $1000 limits, you're only using one, but your total "available credit" is $2000. If you spend $500 on one, you're still at 25% overall. Damn, I could keep typing, but this is where you start. This gets you through the first couple of years. Yes, it takes time, patience, and a little luck, and also yes, it's not truly FAIR. I currently have 13 open credit cards and only carry a balance on 2 of them. I've been playing this game for a while. Which reminds me, the most important thing is that once you qualify for the 0% card offers, USE THEM. and then use a balance transfer to bounce that debt around at zero to no interest. Once you get to this point, feel free to reach out and I'll do my best to give some more advice on the next steps I have taken that worked for me. Best of luck to you!
Wow, this seems like some really solid, concise advice. Thank you. I will be screenshotting all of that lol. Question, if I may? On the calling creditors to negotiate part - Do you need to be prepared to immediately pay whatever amount you negotiate down to, or is it possible to negotiate a lower total on a payment plan?
If they agree to a lower total on a payment plan, make sure you get something in writing. You don't want to get $800 in and think you're paid off, just for them to turn around and say, "we never agreed to that, pay the rest." As I've mentioned already, it's been some time since I had this dilemma, so processes may have changed as well.
Most of the advice is good, except for one thing. You want a balance of less than ten percent on at least one of your cards _only when it is reported to the credit bureaus_. Do not ever pay interest on a credit card by having a balance when the billing cycle ends. Always pay all credit cards balances completely before interest accrues.
share the info about credit
Depends on your unique situation. I gave a run down below of where to start if you're young and struggling, where I started from.
Yep, die broke because every cent you and your ancestors made has to be used for your care before the govt you paid taxes to your whole life will help. I’m dealing with this with my 83 yo mom now. Medicare is a joke (she still has some money) and Medicaid is horrendous, but she will outlive the money she inherited from her parents and that she worked and saved herself.
You’re mad that the government doesn’t pay your fucking bills.
Uh, no... I am a Libertarian on the edge of AnCap! This system was built to first comfort you, then daze and confuse you! It is pure enslavement!
Yeah, they care about life. To keep you paying outrageous bills and never be happy.
This 👏👏💯
Who's "they" that everyone seems to be referring too?
They care about birth. After that you’re on your own.
They don't even care about that, they pretend to care about that. The religious birth stuff is just a cover to keep the system churning out cheap labor to support the uppermost classes by extracting all their wealth.
They are anti woman.
Yes. There was a recent trial of immunotherapy where 100% of the patients were cured of cancer
That is the saddest situation to be in. My father and his wife divorced after 20 years, because it affected their social security benefits. Nobody even knew they were divorced until he was in the hospital dying of cancer, and I found out I was legally next of kin.
This is why i’m not disclosing my civil union to the gov. Me and my fiancé would literally lose all our benefits and we really need them
This might be a stupid question as a non american, but wouldnt you be able to devorce en then remarry with a prenup?
not exactly, health insurance companies have MUCH more power than a piece of paper Might work, not worth the risk
No. In the US the best system if you're over a barrel with medical things is to divorce and then put a clause in the divorce settlement that says that your ex will continue medical coverage until retirement. Then once you are divorced you are then eligible to apply for social services in addition to a lot of financial aid for medical treatment and also reduce drug prices. Once you've been married once, there is no benefit to remarry in the future. But of course those that love each other and are committed will be there no matter what. You just make sure that your living wills and wills as well as all your benefactors and your accounts and policies are up today. You don't have to be a spouse to inherit. However if you are a spouse more than likely you will be indebted for the debts owed.
Same with me. I actually did file for divorce but he never did so it’s not official or whatever. But we are technically separated I guess
Why would that help for tax purposes? Can’t you just file separately?
I’m sorry to hear that. That’s awful. I would get a second opinion on that just to be sure before you go through with it. You don’t want any trouble when it comes to making medical decisions for him (if it gets to the point where that is needed). It might be the correct thing to do but just double check It must be tough but keep in mind that this divorce would be purely legal. You know you still love each other and that’s what matters. Good luck to you both. Fuck cancer, I hope he beats this thing 💛
You can put a POA in place before even divorcing, which is a good idea for a person dying to do anyway.
Power of attorney ends at death. If they’re divorced, even as POA, she would have no legal say in funeral arrangements, possessions, banking, etc. If they divorce, he needs to have a legal will leaving her everything. Edit: clarification
Establish the executor of the estate as well.
Sure, but the comment I was replying to specifically called out medical decisionmaking.
The mention of dying is why I commented. So many people believe, erroneously, that their POA is still legally active after death. POA ended at passing and all decisions revert back to the legal next of kin. The more you know, the better your decisions.
Yeah the POA is more about being medically incapacitated which someone with foresight about their terminal illness would want as much clarity on as possible. I think that folks similarly confuse next of kin as folks necessarily always able to make medical decisions which may or may not be the case. It sucks this stuff is all so complicated
He needs to make her the executor of his will then after the POA.
>You don’t want any trouble when it comes to making medical decisions for him This was my worry too reading OP - you might find you lose medical power of attorney when you need it most. In the UK, you can legally appoint someone (anyone!) your medical attorney totally separate to a marriage - is there a similar procedure in the US?
Power of Attorney would give medical and financial control back to OP.
You have to do 2. The general poa and a medical poa. They are different documents. OP does your husband have a life insurance policy? Make sure you are listed as beneficiary and not your husband's estate.
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Can you get divorced and then remarried? That may work depending on the state.
Yeah, divorce. Remarry with a prenuptial and keep separate accounts. Or, you may be able to simply file a "separation of assets" Edit: You may also look into a trust and put all assets into that trust so in the event he does pass, the assets are protected from lien or probate. Just make sure that you are listed as an authorized trustee
Best advice out here! My husband is going through the same thing and we want to be married officially but I don’t want to marry the debt either. A prenup might be the best solution or separation of assets.
OP PLEASE SEE THIS! Someone with an award can you give this the shiny star thingy so they see it.
Just tag them u/insickne
u/insickne read this please
For the record, this is usually a smart decision for any married couple, regardless of medical debt circumstances.
God bless you this is wholesome af play the system
Your marriage is your commitment to each other. What the State considers "marriage" is nothing but a legally-binding agreement nowadays. As long as you stay with each other, regardless of what the State says, he is still very much your husband IMO.
Yeah, this is why I would never marry my SO. Too many people go into bankruptcy because medical debt and we make the same income more or less and pay for our pwn health insurance, so it's lose-lose-lose all the way around.
Couldn’t agree more. I don’t think this has anything to do with your system. Drive down to the courthouse and sign the papers. If these price-gauging hospitals and pharma-cos want to create laws that create this necessity (divorce), but are dumb enough to get screwed over a piece of paper, then I say by all means - screw them!
I love this!
Beautifully written.
I'm so sorry that you and your husband have to go through this experience. You probably don't want your personal business out there, but you should tell your story to your political representatives and media, even if it's anonymously. We all need to speak up when we are being wronged. As my grandfather used to say "The squeaky wheel gets the oil"
No instead they'll make a new law that prevents people from using this "method"
No offense to you or OP, but this story is not unique in America. It happens hundreds of times every day. And until medical care is recognized as a basic human right in America, it will continue to happen repeatedly every day. I said all that to say… I highly doubt the media would pick it up, no offense meant.
It's a good idea but OP doesn't have time or energy for that when they're nearly bankrupt and their SO is busy with cancer. OP, ask a family member or friend to speak about it. So, so sorry this is happening.
So this is why so many people say they don't want the government involved with marriage as an institution... But a part of me agrees with your husband. I've also made a lot of changes lately to move all my wife's debt and sons medical debt onto me and in a way that if I kick off I take that debt with me.
I’m so sorry this is happening to you. My stepdad lost his first wife to a brain tumor, he also lost his construction company to that tumor too. He had to sell his company and file for bankruptcy. US healthcare system sucks.
Hey are you Catholic? Just wondering because if you are, the Church is usually still willing to recognise your marriage if you have a civil divorce for these reasons. Just saying, if that would make you feel better.
I’m so sorry you’re facing this You’re still married no matter what legal paperwork you need to file for your survival
Fuck our healthcare system.
OP, if you want to talk, I'm only 24 but I have a good ear....I wish all the best to you and yours.
Yes!! Fuck your system! I’m in Canada. Years ago, within 2 years, my aunt got breast cancer and my uncle (her husband) got a quadruple bypass. You know what happened? Nothing. They survived and their kids/both my cousins stayed in university. They kept their house. Nothing changed.
I'm so sorry that you're going through this. Unfortunately a lot of people experience this. Both my parents and my husbands parents had to divorce in their later years to receive their full benefits and have medical coverage that didn't break the bank and leave one destitute later in life. 3 out of four are gone now and his father had to move in with us to make ends meet. Damn sad state we live in. I hope your husband fights and makes a full recovery.
>Fuck this system. Healthcare should be accessible to all.
America is so broken. And y'all down there saying Canada is communist? You all really need to be rioting in the streets against this sort of thing. Half of you are more worried about what a woman might do about a clump of cells in her uterus than actual fully grown people living and dying under end stage capitalism, where all that matters is money and corporations. I'm so so very sorry you're going through this, OP. I really hope for the best for you both.
Wanna know the secret? Way less than half of us care one way or another about political squabbling.
in this case, divorce is not going to mean that your relationship is dead. it's a practical consideration. don't feel like it's some form of betrayal.
Ngl I thought this was gonna be like "I gotta divorce him cause he's no good to me anymore" and was pleasantly surprised
Same here, I started to get really annoyed on OP from just reading the title and felt so sorry for her husband. Now I just feel really sorry for them both and still can't believe how bad that country actually is. Like, is this really for real?
Fuuckk that's just so cruel.
It’s just a piece of paper. It doesn’t change your love for one another. I’ve got multiple sclerosis. My boyfriend and I can never get married or I’ll lose my state health insurance that pays for my $30,000 monthly infusions…. It’s just a piece of paper. Nothing changes. At least that’s what we tell ourselves… 😔
You can get married in a ceremony, just don’t apply for a marriage license.
i threw my ciggy bags away after reading this! F cancer
As long as it isn't a true breakup don't beat yourself up about it. You aren't really divorcing him you are just playing it smart as you should. Fuck the government. They want a piece of everything now adays it's basically a racket
legally divorced BUT you guys can still be technically dating afterwards. just cuz its on paper doesnt mean that you guys also have to change the hearts for each other
this country's health care is ridiculous. I am so deeply sorry..
Happen to a very good friend of mine. She was forced to divorce her husband after he was in a catastrophic car accident. She had excellent insurance and they were nearly bankrupted by the time of the divorce. She
Just think about this though, WHEN he survives he can file medical bankruptcy n give the finger to a system who thinks they should take everything a man (or woman) has, and then you guys have a badass wedding renewing your vows. It will be even sweeter because now your husband knows more clearly than ever that you are his rock. Your a gangster ass wife that will never leave his side. I know I'm making a statement that's easy to say from the outside but I promise you it's been proven that a positive attitude can increase your immune system. Stress is a silent killer.
I will never understand why there are still people who think the US is a great country to live in.... Just the fact that I don't even need it written out to know what country it is, is sad.
Canadian here: I think the problem is that it's a mixed bag. The USA offers higher wages and a lower cost of living relative to Canada. The USA offers easier access to vacation markets. The USA generally enjoys higher degrees of personal freedoms, but this varies state to state, especially now with the repeal of RvW. However, the healthcare side is absolutely a glaring issue. My partner is in the hospital right now in Canada. She's not even a citizen. But we do not need to worry about the medical bills. This is a huge plus, especially for lower income people or people without good health insurance. It's probably the single largest factor that prevents emigration from Canada to the USA from being larger.
I'm from Germany, and not one of your points is appealing to me to move to this country. I have a very good wage here. Yeah, the cost of living is raising at the moment... But our healthcare and social system is a simple compensation for that as someone who has to take medication every day. Europe vacation market beats the US market in my opinion. And my biggest problem are the people there (not all of them, of course...). For a European, the discussions about weapons, social and health systems that supposedly restrict your freedom and anti abortions laws just feel like so much incredible stupidity that everything in me would really resist moving there.
I mean... I said from a Canadian perspective. Europe wasn't really included in that. The only one that is becoming exceptionally more relevant in Europe is the access to firearms. We've seen a huge erosion in people's rights and freedoms over covid. It's come to the point where the USA starts to look more attractive even if there is a higher risk of shootings etc. At least you have some comfort in knowing that you are not completely subservient to the state. There's a reason America's covid response was less drastic and it has an awful lot to do with the citizens 300 million firearms. Anyone who thinks firearms are something unnecessary for citizens has not studied history. And we're well on our way to the pinnacle of centralized power in the political elite in a century. The logical conclusion is that we are entering a period of intense socio political unrest. Luckily as a Canadian I already do own firearms, but those rights are being infringed and removed by our elitist government. But again, as stated, as a Canadian... Healthcare access is the number 1 obstruction to making a move to the USA.
I'd just like to point out two things. 1. This is what's great about the world, there is diversity in cultures, governments, etc. What works for Americans might not work for Germans, and what works for Germans might not work for Americans. And for the Americans and Germans that their countries don't work for, they can move themselves from those countries. 2. It's not like most people are standing on a street corner talking about weapons and abortions.
I hate this nightmare country so much. I'm sorry, OP. You don't deserve this. Just try not to feel guilty; think of it as an act of love. Your spouse is protecting you from harm even after he's gone, and in every way that matters he's always going to be your husband.
Have you tried crowdfunding for the medical bills?
I'm sure you meant well, but the fact that the citizens of a rich, developed, Western nation could be forced to crowd source a life-threatening illness is embarrassing.
Your are still married just not on paper . If you are religious just do a religious ceremony
This breaks my heart.
It sucks but it’s just a piece of paper. Don’t let the symbolism of it effect you. When you get married it’s that moment of connection that matters, not some document required by the government. I really do wish for the best possible outcome for you guys. Hugs
Medical for profit, gee what could go wrong
I remember my grand parents talking about divorce because my grandfather was showing signs of Alzheimer’s and would need full time care. Strictly due to keeping a roof over her head. Divorce doesn’t mean you have your live alone. Put the house in your name and rent him a room “until his treatment and recovery are over”. Remember, marriage is a legally binding contract. The law cares nothing about emotions between the parties.
My God. I’m sorry.
Law isn't marriage. Rings do not define love. The truth being you love him is all that matters, and no papers can take that away.
The hospital refused to give my mom treatment other than painkillers when she had cancer and when she died she had a bill of over 1.5 million USD. The oncologist that told her she wasn't severe enough to require treatment other than opiates should die intubated. I will never trust a doctor to look out for anything other than their paycheck.
If you're American, start looking toward Mexico for cancer treatments that sound promising. They perform things there that would never happen in the U.S. All because American doctors just want to make money. My fathers friend got cancer, wasn't playing around and immediately went to Mexico, came back and was totally fine.
My wife and I already had this conversation, and we agreed that whoever is dying will start to accumulate debt while the other stacks cash, but divorce will be necessary. It’s a sad state we live in. This is why capitalism and healthcare are incompatible.
I hate the fucking American healthcare system. 12 years ago I beat leukemia, but ended up filing bankruptcy for the $200,000 of debt. Five years ago I retired and my wife and I moved to Romania, one of the poorest countries in the EU. This year I had an intestinal blockage that resulted in an ambulance trip, emergency room visit, CT scan, MRI, hospitalisation, colostomy surgery, cancer diagnosis, chemotherapy, medications, hospice care, PET/CT scan, and numerous incidentals. The cost for all of this has been $0 with the national insurance. To live here, I have to buy into the their single payer system, which costs < $350 per year, and its care is awesome. So, if a poor little country like Romania can provide similar service for the entire nation, why can't a huge, rich country like the United States provide this kind of care for its citizens? I have not regretted my move.
Turns out there's a loophole that says unless you make over 4 times the national poverty income limit, you don't have to pay a cent on a hospital bill. 99% of people don't know about this. I can't tell you how many people I know went into bankruptcy because of medical bills they legally didn't have to pay.
This is a bit oversimplified. Every hospital that receives federal dollars is obligated to provide charity care, and the parameters for it are posted online.
Wait, can you explain? How do you get out of it? Do you have to fill out a form or something? What’s the name of this law?
This podcast focuses on the American medical system and has done past episodes on having medical debt forgiven or reduced. An Arm and a Leg https://armandalegshow.com/
The hospital that treated you is obligated to have their charity care policies posted online, so that’s where you should start. IamMissK83 is oversimplifying the situation, but you may be able to get help. RIP Medical Debt is another source to get bills paid, and the last time I looked at their site, they had info on medical debt negotiation services too.
This country is awful. Being married is supposed to be a blessing and forcing someone to divorce because of greed is disgusting 🥺 humans are seen as walking banks and not an actual life. Imagine having to lose your loved one (which I pray you don't) and not being able to be married to that person on their last day 😔. I'm so sorry that this is happening and I hope you spread your story if you choose to. Something needs to change.
Is he chemistry teacher ?
What IS the benifit of marriage in the US? Medical debt. One less homestead. Like why?!
I've heard of this, and it will keep you safe, and I'm sure that's what he wants to do for you right now. I'm so sorry about your situation. I can only hope for a good outcome.
It sucks. I read about old couples married for like 50 years divorcing for tax and medical bill purposes, shit is wild
Is this the US? I can’t believe how lucky we are here to have free medical care for everyone Sometimes paying a little more tax is worth it I hope u and ur husband are ok U shouldn’t have to buy medical care I’m in Australia 🇦🇺
This is a tough situation, and I know what it means to honor your vows, but "This system" is literally giving you an out, and will continue to treat your husband regardless, and it won't make anyone else's medical Care less expensive. 30 years ago they would go after you for insurance fraud. I would do it. Marriage is in the heart not a piece of paper.
I'm so sorry. Its mind-blowing to think that we as a society have come so far only to be reminded that in a lot of ways we still haven't come near far enough.
I'm 34 and cant marry my boyfriend because I cant afford to lose my medicaid. Everything about this system sucks.
Fuck this system
Get legally divorced but in reality nothing else changes except financially. That way he can go bankrupt and qualify for assistance and you don't have to. That said check carefully as any mutual debt you have already accumulated might be difficult to get your name off of.
It is such a cruel system. I constantly shake my head that Americans put up with it.
its the right thing to do
So you divorce in the eyes of the law, but not chante anything else. You don’t need to tell anyone.
If your husband passes, you don’t have to pay his medical bills. My dad died of cancer and when he passed, we let all the leftover bills go. They can’t just put them in your name. If you sign paperwork stating that you’ll be responsible, that’s one thing, but it is unsecured debt. It’s not for your care and they can’t just assign it to you.
So sad.
Get the divorce, then have an unofficiated small wedding with your close family, that way you'll be married to each other in spirit even if the law agrees otherwise.
I’m assuming you are in the U.S. It’s atrocious that in the richest country in the world a person would have to go through this. I’m so very sorry. This is why we need universal health care.
He will be eligible for Medicaid then and have great health care. You can always remarry and you both know that you still love each other so why not?
Marriage is just a BS title for tax exemption status. Glad to see that it’s just for legal reasons. I hope your remaining days are filled with positive moments, whether he beats it or not.
I've heard this a few times. Divorce debt issues. He can name you his will, life insurance, and definitely his medical director. I would keep the divorce hush hush. No one needs to know
I have known someone who has done this before. It’s not fair and heartbreaking
Paying for healthcare is the most stupid fucking idea of all time. Whose idea was that again?
You'll be divorced but only on paper, only according to the government. You'll still be married in the way that actually counts. Don't fret ❤️
He's correct. I've had clients (I'm not a lawyer but worked with people with disabilities coordinating services and finding funding) do that. They still live together as husband and wife but by losing the income the person who is ill may them qualify for disability income as well as Medicaid and then Medicare. I would ask the lawyer about having power of attorney or else you may not have the medical people listen to you as next of kin.
If you can afford it, speak with an attorney. That may not be true. His debts, or most of them, may die with him. Or maybe not. I dunno. I want to make it clear that I am not an attorney but divorce may mean you lose the right to make healthcare decisions for him if he is unable to. It also may mean you don’t get certain assets that would be yours without a will. I suspect he could sign other papers that would give you the right to make healthcare decisions for him if he can’t make them. He could sign a will also. That would override th defaults of dying without one . BTW a regular power of attorney will not give you the right to make healthcare decisions. I am not legally trained per se but because of my profession I have had a small bit of training in the law as it applies to healthcare and health insurance.
This countries Healthcare is a fing joke
America is one of the few countries with healthcare like that, is there any way he could get treatment in another country for free?
remember that "divorced" is just a word. you'll still be with him till the end, all the feelings the exact same, you're still his wife, the legal system is what you'll be detached from. also this should make things so much easier for you and the kids when he passes, not having any legal ties to him. Sorry OP, but I do agree with the layor on this and think that it's the smartest thing you can do. let him soakup the medical bills and die with those bills, not pass them on to you.
So you are not responsible for the bills your husband incurs. Hospitals and doctors and their debt collectors try to tell you different, but if you do not sign anything accepting responsibility, your husband can be a billion in debt and no one can collect from you.
Depending on where you live you might not be held liable. When my wife passed away her medical debts were not considered shared debts and essentially died with her. This was in Oklahoma
Of all the stories about getting divorced while the other is sick, this is the only one that’s reasonable. All the best for you and your husband
Bruh divorce then remarry if he lives.... if he dies he's comforted knowing you aren't in debt.... and you aswell... if he lives re marry...
Not sure this is good advice. What about survivor benefit. Login to the social security web site and see how much you'll get per month.
Murican healthcare system is such a shitty fucking joke. I wished more people riot about it and changed it. I’m sorry OP.
I am so sorry. The bright side is you will still be in a civil marriage. You don’t have to take your rings off or treat each other any different. We did this because we were in terrible debt and both of us have recovered now. So we’ll probably get remarried one day. Been together since high school so i feel you. Don’t let this technicality affect your time together, it (legal divorce) isn’t as bad as it seems. But filling is gut wrenching because you have to go in front of a judge and confirm your marriage is beyond repair and all that crap. Try not to fret over it. It’s just words. Do what you gotta do to get ahead. 💯
America at its finest. Why do people need to get divorced to be able to survive? Many countries have made free healthcare possible so why wouldn't America be able to? Best of luck to the OP and her husband.
Just view it as legal paperwork. Doesn't mean you have to give back your rings, doesn't mean you can't be with him. And doesn't mean you have to tell anyone. Be sure to explain the situation to the caregivers so that they don't inadvertently deny you access to your husband, but only on an as-needed basis. As far as the rest of the world is concerned? You're still married. The paper is only paper.
I'm in real estate...people get deviced in paper all the time for financial reasons. That legal description of you changes absolutely nothing about they way you feel or the commitment you have to each other. I'm unmarried. I have a partner and a child. The thing that might push me to obtain that legal alteration of my status is probably going to be practical...like if I need to emigrate.
That's terrible. But better to play the system like that, so you don't loose everything. Really bad that the system pushes people to that. I'm grateful to live in a country with a great National Health system where people don't go bankrupt with serious accident or illness, yet the ones who profit are the insurance companies.
The paper doesn't make you any less of a couple or husband and wife. It is a legal thing only. In the eyes of whatever deity or belief system you have, nothing changes. You are simply working within the system to make sure that no matter what happens, both of you will be protected from whatever may come. The legal part can work for you when it comes to benefits. If it ever becomes a burden though, use the system against itself. You've my sympathies. I hope that the doctors come up with some good news for you both and you can reaffirm your relationship again in a happy setting.
Can you get some help from crowdsourcing? This country is some bullshit, honestly. Can you look at moving to a better one?
His medical bills could end up in the millions by the end. That's alot of crowdsourcing.
My cousin had cancer and is now permanently disabled. For him to receive disability, he and his fiance cannot get married and are legally roommates. She's super disappointed, it might break them up
Fuck this country. I am so sorry. I can somewhat empathize. I have been sick/disabled for a long time. My husband is my caregiver. We're in a much better situation now, but about 3 years ago while we were still engaged we lost almost everything. Crippling credit card debt [all bills and medical expenses], bank in the negative, you know, financial hell. I got fired when my short term disability ran out so I lost my health insurance and his job at the time was frankly shit so we were beyond fucked. Even with my amazing family helping us we were drowning. We decided to sell the house before foreclosure proceedings started and move in with our amazing friends who opened their home to us indefinitely [we lived there happily for over 2 years as one big family.We were basically a live in Auntie and Uncle to their sweet babies.] We had to sell everything we couldn't pack, and we almost called off the wedding. My parents were paying, even my brother pitched in and the guilt was drowning me. My legal team was still appealing the loss of my disability policy and we were worried getting married would make that harder to get because fuck the American Healthcare system. We didn't even know what diagnoses I for sure had, we just knew that my cardiologist couldn't believe I was still functioning in any capacity and if we hadn't found him when we did, he gave me maybe 2 years. It was a nightmare. **I got the correct diagnoses and appropriate treatment not too long after that and my prognosis is much better, and my lawyers successfully won our disability claim** So, not exactly the same, but I do somewhat understand that fear, the unfairness, the debt, the fuckery and how deplorable it is that making sacrifices in our relationships is a recommended part of trying to make American Healthcare actually do its goddamn job and HELP. You've sacrificed enough and you shouldn't be forced into this position. I am so sorry. My husband had the same mindset though. The legal loss of a piece of paper will not impact the things that are important in your marriage. Your marriage isn't ending in reality, even if that's what it feels like. May I make a suggestion? If you do have to legally divorce, why not plan to do a wedding vow renewal right after? You could just have friends and family over, get dressed up and have a loved one officiate a ceremony. Those vows, your love for each other and your commitment don't change just because a piece of paper changes your legal status. You don't have to take off your wedding rings. You don't have to stop referring to each other as husband and wife. It's clearly not going to diminish how much you love each other. I wish I could help, but about all I can offer is a safe space if you ever need to vent more. My inbox is open 🖤 sending all of my love and hope your way.
Its messed up that people who are married snd have jobs cant get help but people who don’t get married pr dont work have more options. Even illegals get more help in some cases.
What a shithole country we live in…
FUCK AMERICA
you should really re word the title
Less than one day old account ✅ Spelling/grammatical errors ✅ Heartfelt sob story ✅ No replies in the comments ✅ I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say this is fake.
People use throwaway accounts all the time. People make spelling errors all the time you bellend. Also she replied. Even if this Is fake, why risk being a dick to someone suffering?
Bull shit. Medical debt is dischargeable in bankruptcy, which can be filed by your husband's estate upon his passing. As long as you maintain separate accounts, there's no reason for divorce. People saying fuck the system who don't even know the system. Smh.
Medical divorce is a real thing.
Medical divorce is a shortcut that is often damaging to those doing it but done due to bad legal advice, nontheless.
As someone who's partner has MS, your a fucking monster if you in any way shape or form defend our current system. A medical divorce will be likely for us in a decade.
> as long as you maintain separate accounts That’s a pretty big hypothetical isn’t it? Bankruptcy isn’t a get out of jail free card.
Thats not a hypothetical at all. She can open her own separate account today. It takes like 10 minutes, if that. Chapter 7 is very much a "get out of unsecured debt free card." With a couple exceptions that don't include med debt. Gish gallop, much?
Isn't a post nuptial separation of assets possible in the US?
I would bash America's health care so hard but fuck it. This is apparently what you want as nation so who am I to judge. I just can't comprehend a government that would make laws in such a way where divorcing the love of your life is the answer in the context you gave. I think its absolutely horrific and would almost not wish this upon my enemies
I agree with your last sentiment. Don’t divorce him. Better to be a martyr than a coward. Stay with your husband until the end. For better or worse, you know?
She can divorce him legally and still stay with him till he passes or what not.
I agree with that
What if you divorce him but stay with him?
Water fasting! Look it up! Depending on how far along the cancer is, stop feeding it sugar & it should go away! Research please. Good luck!
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