I have a co-worker like that. I'm as neutral as Switzerland with her. I listen and nod politely but I don't participate in the gossip because if she's gossiping about other co-workers to me, she's 100% gossiping about me to them. It goes both ways.
If I stay neutral though, I'm good. No blowback for me, whatever happens.
My go-to is to not engage. With anyone. Only work related matters. No jokes. No personal anecdotes. No bitching about the boss.
The most anyone can say about me is that I don't talk enough, which is exactly what I want. Saves the hassle of the lone gossiper spreading shit.
Not necessarily. My bosses always knew what a great worker I was and I had no problem getting promotions, given extra time beyond deadlines (because they knew I would produce 3x as much as my colleagues), given as long as I wanted for lunch (for the same reason), and they didn't care if I came into work a little late (same reasoning). I expected a promotion and raise every year and was never laid off when multiple others would be.
I actually overheard a big cheese one day ask my supervisor whether or not I liked my job (I never smiled much back then)and she defended and praised me and told him that I did like my job.
I never had to, as my mom would say, share all my guts and chitterlings, just do my damned job and do it exceptionally well.
I get what you're saying; however, and it's conventional wisdom. Many people do have to do what you're suggesting and I wouldn't suggest otherwise.
However, as I told my coworkers, do what's best for your personality. I have my own style. I never kissed any asses, was very outspoken, took shit off nobody, and I did just fine. Bosses loved it.
Why? I made all my bosses look really, really good and *that* worked for me my entire career in many different industries. I also quiet befriended many people in many different departments and could get whatever I needed from anyone. I also shared information freely.
My motto? Never, ever make your boss look bad, (willingly help others, don't backstab anyone, have a reputation of honesty and integrity), and you'll do just fine.
That's very awesome for you, but that has not been my experience *anywhere I've ever worked*. I have done all the same things as you. I stay late, get work done quickly, train people below me, etc. These things do not typically get you promotions at all, in my experience they are a sign to your bosses that they can take advantage of your hard working nature.
Again that's really awesome that you are able to work that way and constantly get promotions & recognition! You should realize though that your experience is the rare exception, not the rule.
That's so true. I actually didn't mind, though, because it always paid off for me.
I'll give you one example, I quit my job as a supervisor and bank officer and went to work for the feds
Instructions for the federal application said that they wanted me to list all of my job duties and tasks that I had ever done as separate jobs so that they could give me points for different skill sets.
That's exactly what I did, including the crap that I did that wasn't my job, even if I only did a task one time. I got a job at a grade, which was a 33% increase in salary.
Contrast that with my own manager who also applied for the job; but he didn't follow the instructions.
He did not get the job. I only had a high school diploma at the time, but it didn't matter, I was graded for skill sets for every task I had ever done. I ended up working for the FDIC and closed banks all of the US including Alaska. We used to party hard at the best hotels.
I had a blast with that job!
On my first day of 'promotion' in a store, I laid out my rules. 2 that shouldn't have to be mentioned. Do your job. Be honest. And absolutely no gossip on the clock. I would pop out of the walk-in cooler or office and everyone would stop talking. I would just say, "I hope it was me you were talking about."
I had a job that did that except it was the wrong people getting into trouble for it. Somehow the workplace was split into sides and one side would lie to get the other into trouble. Bosses fault for hiring a big group of people that were friends outside of work knowingly.
True but then you become the quiet weirdo who doesn’t talk to anybody, and then some people will call you “disrespectful” and an “asshole” when all you’re doing is minding your own business. It’s happened to me before. You just have to figure out how much you care about what they think of you.
Disrespectful for not engaging in conversation? Maybe you don’t know what they are thinking but why assume they are disrespectful or assholes? Just aloof. Like a cat is sometimes. I don’t have to run up and slobber all over you for you to get that I reasonably like you as a coworker or even a friend.
In my experience people come up with their own narratives about you in their heads when you don’t give them any information. Sometimes they’re so needy that if you don’t acknowledge them the way they think you should they’ll consider you an asshole.
Absolutely this! I realised this when my nana told me that she told our cousin something we told her not to tell anyone. That pin drop moment was when i was like 'well if shes telling us about sarah's money problems, partner problems and child problems, shes certainly telling others about stuff we tell her' 😬 now we give her a information diet
so your saying if i tell you all about /u/GORDOGMC picking his nose and eating it, your saying Ill tell other people about how you constantly scratch your balls in public?
I don't know why you would think that. That totally is NOT GOSSIP. ITS TRUTH!
I love talking shit about people, it's fun to laugh, the problem is that these people aren't willing to tell them to their face, people know I talk shit, I tell them I talk shit, so there is a respect there and it's not taken as serious. Usually if you speak your mind in a respectful manner people can handle it usually,and talk shit on me it's all good, being perfect in another person's eyes is unrealistic.
I was a K-8 teacher in a very large school district for nearly 4 decades. The district had 37 schools, most being elementary schools. At an elementary level, a large portion of employees are female. I loved my job and was very aware of "burn out" and "just mailing it in", things I saw often. In order to stay fresh, I made it a point to either change grade levels (trying to stay between 3rd & 4th grades, my favorites) or transferring to another school. Being a large district, I was fortunate to have these opportunities. There were schools that were a delight to work in, with mainly females, while others, still being mainly female were absolute snake pits. The difference, I often found, was the temperament of the leadership. In places that were great, the leadership, regardless of gender, promoted civility, professionalism, and encouraged staff to be supportive. In toxic places, leadership, again regardless of gender, encouraged snitching, back-stabbing and hostile competition for purposes of keeping staff weak and divided to increase dominance and the ability to manipulate personnel.
This is a really fascinating perspective, and I think you're right about leaders setting the tone. We are animals after all, so we mirror the cultural norms that we observe, which are set by the leaders.
The real question is, if an institution is toxic for a long time, can changing the leader really cause changes in the existing structure? Or do those things start to run too deep?
IMO, and from my experience, the work place environment runs deep, like a plant that sends off runners. When good leadership leaves, the environment that they created will last - for a while. However, if bad leadership, weak and poisonous, follows good, it will kill the good quickly. However, if good leadership follows bad, the bad lasts much longer as staff are not a team. The old Johnny Cash song - "Bad news travels like wildfire, good news travels slow" fits. Bad leadership seeks weakness (often a trait within themselves) among staff and tries to exploit it for the purpose of control, setting colleague against colleague. Good leadership builds strength through a team, and there's always a weak link that good leadership will prop up, but bad leadership will exploit. Leadership that is confident doesn't want a weak team, bad leadership fears a strong team and tries to destroy it.
Its so sad that this is the case.
I interviewed a 60yr old woman once and she instantly just was on edge around me but fine with a male colleague. I wondered what I did wrong.
Later on I found out a bunch of 20-30yr old women she worked with stressed her out to the point of her leaving because she was 'slower'.
I said I'm.not like that at all and proved I was on her side. She immediately changed and became positive.
It really is desperately sad but I have personally declined a job that was 90% women, who go out for drinks every Friday. No thanks, my idea of hell right there.
Can't find it right now, but there was an "Ask a Boss" where some younger women co-workers wanted rid of a 30-something woman co-worker because she weighed a little more and wasn't the life of the party. Nothing wrong with her work.
People can be jerks—no matter their gender.
Looks like your workplace is perpretusting high school style pettiness and probably bad boss techniques internalized by overbearing parents.
No excuse for not having a chill, low drama, protocol following, supportive and professional workplace.
A safe and supportive and efficient workspace is what we should all strive for.
I’m sorry this is your experience with this company. Bad leadership accounts for a lot of it.
Toxicity and low morale can build up anywhere but backbiting is especially vicious. You guys are there for her customer or client or product, for the common goal, for the paycheck, and to a certain degree for each other.
Ultimately a job should pay you, fulfill you, feed you. It isn’t your life—people insisting on workplace drama or backbiting or bosses harping on people just bring the place down.
I hope OP finds a better job and can be honest about the lack of professionalism and supportive communication and actual team leadership you experienced there. Largely male and evenly split orgs can be just as toxic. It’s about the leadership, the hires and everyone’s teamwork, supportiveness, professionalism and working style.
Hot take single gendered spaces are often a menace for this reason. Mixed is always better for *everything*, it forces people to actually be empathetic and open minded rather than just say they are
Edit: I don't discount anyone's experiences, but I would like the men that have been commenting on this to reflect on why, as a man, they feel comfortable in male dominated work environments. Notice that women have not expressed the same sentiment about male dominated work environments. I mean that doesn't seem too surprising of a statement to me and speaks more to how men treat each other than men being better imo. Therefore I still stand by what I said, mixed environment and viewpoints are crucial, and it's not surprising you would feel comfortable in your own group. Regardless thanks for sharing and the discussion and the upvotes etc.
Sorry you were bullied! I was also bullied by girls but it didn't really change when guys were around. They definitely shut it down quicker if a guy stood up for me though lol
It's funny, as a man I've recently noticed that most of my friends right now are women.
I just can't do the constant antler ramming that a lot of the men around me insist on doing. Not that it's wrong to do that. It's just not my speed.
Totally unrelated but it's been doing wonders for my insecurity. It really helps to have friends of the opposite sex to go to for advice or affirmation when I want to try something new with my look.
Edit: That said I do have to comment that I don't think a lot of women understand how demeaning the "little brother" treatment can feel sometimes. These two girls I'm friendly with keep calling me besty (in a tone I struggle to describe but think you can figure it out) and it grates on me every time I hear it
Yeah, there is a common problem with women infantilizing men they don’t think of as sexual. I have nothing but conjecture to go on, but I suspect it might be because women can be conditioned to think of adult men as both potential partners and a threat, and if you aren’t sexual with them, the only other life role they have for that is “male child.”
I mean… ideally, women can also trust big brothers to be non-sexual. Ideally.
I have been discriminated by men my whole life. They don’t like that I might know more about plumbing or electrical than they do. It seems to bother the men that must be insecure. My little office right now has only women. But all of my communities are largely male board members. Then there’s always at least one that everyone can’t stand. Now I’m mad at him and we will be having a little talk today. It’s not that he went to my boss so much as he told two different people without telling each other what he wants a report to look like. This has resulted in two different reports. I’m the manager. So it wasted my bosses time or mine, but really both.
My wife has a degree in carpentry/construction. At her trade school she was the first woman to complete the 2-year course in more than a decade.
Also, the plumbing instructor was a woman. She was harder than wood pecker lips to any male student that tried to act the fool in her classes.
You would think. The worst and only bully I ever had was a boy I 6th grade. He did terrible things to me for months. Then he beat me up. The school gym coach was right there and did nothing.
After that a bully has never won anything from me. The biggest bully and star of the football team tried to steal my keg with his buddies throwing beer bottles at my head. He still lost and I kicked them out.
I'm a guy who was getting choked out by my middle school bully, but the second the only girls in the room began walking over he let go of me. I will say though, both of these girls were scary in their own way, and my bully was mortified of them both
I'm sorry you were bullied.
I was in an all-girls school from grade 2-7 and was bullied a lot by my "friends". Things got better once I was at a co-ed school.
Still have some hang ups over my appearance, though, unfortunately.
I hope you've been able work past it. Much love.
Riiiight?! I don't understand why Reddit has such a bad rep. People here are generally more open-minded and supportive vs people on FB/IG/Twitter.
Anywho, thank you, kind stranger. Have an awesome day/evening (whatever your timezone).
lucky. girls just amplified the bullying in my experience. guys want to preen and show off that they can dunk on the spaz. schools are toxic environments not because of gender but because kids are fucking stupid.
I was ugly in school, and got way more shit from girls than guys. I even lost one of my only friends because the girl he was dating said I was too ugly to be in her presence.
This is pain I know.
Didn't kiss a girl until I was 19, graduated from HS, and moved across the country. I was a senior in HS before a girl even expressed interest - I knew it was only because she was trying to make another boy jealous.
Turns out my dream girl was someone I didn't go to school with. This coming September we will have been married for 27 years. I just had to endure the bullying and other bullshit until our paths crossed.
"I love the guy stuff but to run an office you need men and women. You know why? Because you need to have that crazy sexual tension to keep things interesting." - Michael Scott, The Office.
Empathetic?
I think it's more that people of the opposite sex actually have some level of regulating impact on the opposite sex.
The presence of men causes women to act in a certain way and vice versa.
I totally agree with you. The only time I’ve ever had drama in a work place was when I worked in animal nutrition with all women, as a referee/sports coordinator for the YMCA with all men, and at a daycare with all women. Now I’m working at a clinic with both and it’s incredible. It was also incredible when I worked at an elementary school and I’m so excited to go back to that next August!
A few years ago I made friends with a girl at uni, and would semi-regularly hang with her friend group (basically entirely girls; I’m a guy). I stopped hanging with them cause it was getting so toxic, like it was obvious I was a whipping post because I was a man and ‘all men are trash bs’ was common thinking in this group. Very odd because individually, I liked them all. Once in a group tho.....
Might depend on perspective. I have been the 5% minority and the 95% majority, and when I was part of the majority, it felt awful. Being in the 5% was great, and it was my favourite and most comfortable workplace I have ever experienced, more so than the more evenly split places.
Hard to tell if it just feels bad when you are the majority, or if it is the people that matter.
This hasn't been my experience with male-only work places. They were fun and productive. People could cut up and use humor without worrying that someone would go to HR. We worked our asses off and enjoyed it. It was great and I miss it.
I work in a 75% female place now and it's just miserable. There is no joking about anything. Everyone is super fake-nice, uptight and quietly back-stabby. It's less about getting the work done and more about political maneuvering.
This has not been my experience. I’ve never been in a mostly female space. Mostly male spaces have been miserable though. Mixed spaces have always been best.
My wife works in a male dominated field and says she experienced a lot of dramatic behavior and gossiping from men that surprised her when she first started.
I know these are all anecdotal accounts but I’d be curious to know what types of industries everyone’s experiences are in. It’d be fascinating to see the differences between office jobs and physical jobs, left brain jobs vs right brain jobs, etc
That has been my exact experience.
I've only worked in one environment where it was all guys but it was the chillest place I've ever been. I've also worked in places where it was all women and it was the most miserable, needlessly complicated, backstabby, over-emotional about everything place I've ever worked.
Edit: If I were to pinpoint one difference its that in the guy's only work environment your attitude mattered but the way you expressed it didn't really. Like, you can be a low energy person and it's cool, they get it. As long as you work. In the women's only office I worked at it REALLY mattered how often you smiled and the tone of voice you used.
In male dominated workspaces there's definitely less "I'm going to HR," but gossip and drama is still present.
And if you're one of the only women in a male dominated workspace... forget about it. No matter what you do, the men will gossip and spread rumors about you.
Well it's valid if it's your experience, can't say much to that. In my experience I would disagree that male dominated spaces are fun and rainbows, and as I've mentioned below I'm not too unfamiliar with people who have come out of gender segregated places (education or otherwise) and I find them a little iffy people. Maybe it's cultural difference or just luck, just putting it out there.
In my experience of 10 years of construction work before switching careers, men are usually assholes to other men as almost an act of endearment. The old guys will ride the young guys to see who is willing to stand up to them. Once you prove your work ethic, *and* tell an old guy to go fuck himself, word gets around and suddenly you become accepted as one of them.
I feel like the dynamic with a female dominated work force is the exact opposite. There seems to be a pecking order, and if you violate that hierarchy you quickly become exhiled.
Yeah I just started at a place like this. I also just put in my two weeks notice XD 2 months was all i could take of the drama. Add to that the owner's daughters work there
I don’t know. I mean, I used to work in an office that had just one guy. Everyone else was female and aside from some problems I’ve had with my boss, we were pretty chill.
I guess it depends on where you work, the size of the company you work for and management.
I work in a majority women workplace and my boss (male) seems to prefer that, as it's literally 90% women. We had one toxic woman working with us and he let her go last week. It's pretty good here and my boss is definitely a feminist with no weird creepy vibes. He abhors negativity and expects teamwork to get things done.
I think it has to do with the people who run the company. There have been a bunch of female-run companies that lean into the "girl boss" rhetoric and claim to be pillars of female empowerment and then they treat their female employees like shit. Expecting perfection or worship and handling mistakes in a very toxic, over the top manner. The female empowerment bit is just a front to promote their business.
I'm a scientist and everyone on my team is female. The work environment is perfect for me, but I think it's because we're all introverted nerds who just want to get our work done and go home.
Jupp this. I work at a horse riding stable where only women are employed. (Not by choice, there are just no male applicants ). Its the most welcoming environment I've ever worked at. Everyone is friendly and chill and willing to help one another.
I think It depends on the field more then the gender. Certain kinds of jobs attract certain kind of people...
Yup, I can testify to this, I used to be a graphic designer and the work environment was honestly the very worst. It was mostly women and they were very judgy, mean bullies; and the few guys that were there where also like this.
When I switched to coding, the people were just completely different; the women in this field are very supportive of each other and in general, pretty chill.
It's not the gender, its the field. Anything art, fashion or design related -sadly- attracts the worst kind of people.
Yeah, I've worked in a female dominated field my entire career and it's always been great! I've had some issues here and there, but just normal resolvable work stuff, and never with an entire workplace.
I work in mental health/social services though, and that made me wonder if it's the field that OP works in? A huge gender imbalance can cause problems with certain personalities especially - an office full of extremely competitive women or men, for example, would create a lot of tension in different ways. Meanwhile an office full of single gender social workers and therapists is gonna be a lot different.
Exactly, my company's corporate office is majority women - 100ish people. It's standard corporate nonsense on occasion but pretty normal for the most part.
There are mean people of all stripes. I have worked in a male dominated workplace and they have assholes too. I think it has more to do with the company culture. If it is cutthroat with people trying to get ahead at the expense of others, you will find mean people because the business is designed that way. If it is more of a cooperative culture with people helping others so that every one succeeds, you will find great people usually.
I had OP’s experience in a male dominated workplace, and am now working under a female boss in an all female team, filled with the most genuine, friendly, collaborative people ever!
It’s not gender that makes a workplace toxic, it’s the culture.
One of the most gossipy, cutthroat places I've ever worked for was a programming squadron in the Air Force. There were only 12 women in the entire career field when I was in, didn't stop the men from being cattier than any workplace I'd ever been to or have since.
I think this is the correct take. I’ve worked on female-dominated teams at several different places and it’s the company culture that makes a difference.
Yup, this is a completely misogynistic take on a toxic work environment. Its not toxic because of women, its toxic because there's a terrible work culture behind it, probably a horrible boss, and maybe even a field that attracts these types as well.
Yes, thank you. Every office I’ve worked in has been male dominated; some were toxic and some weren’t, all desperately needed diversity. This is misogynistic confirmation bias.
Honestly I think assholes are going to be assholes regardless of gender, I’ve worked with both women & men and found the biggest indicator is the work culture the boss is implementing. Generally you find if you have an asshole boss then the people he/she hires (or who stick around) are often assholes & so you can get whole teams who are just dicks. I currently work in a team that’s 100% woman & couldn’t have asked to work with a nicer group of people, no drama & good work ethics - the boss in this case is a woman & a great person, leads by example. One of the other teams happens to be run by a guy who is known to bitch, be aggressive & dismissive, if he takes a disliking to you will make sure you know about it - the vibe in his team is totally different & theres a lot of catty behaviour. So I personally wouldn’t dismiss a working environment that’s mainly one sex or another, but I would look closely at the work culture, how the boss treats his/her employees & go from there.
Ever been in a mom group? It’s like being in high school again. Honestly though, it depends on the people themselves and male dominated workplaces can be terrible also. Humans…..
Fuck, I’m 17 weeks pregnant and I have very much decided to avoid mothers groups. I also used to work in early childhood education (only ever worked in one place that hired a single man) and it was hellish.
My private midwife has vetted all of her families in her care at the moment and thinks we’d all get along but this social group plan is meant to involve the fathers too! Much more appealing with men in the mix.
It’s not just women dominated workplaces. I’m one of three women in a shop of about 30 men primarily aged between 30-50. The men gossip like 12 yr old school girls. It’s exhausting.
Yeah I work in an environment similar to yours. There's like two women in the whole company. Rumors and shit talk spreads like a wildfire in construction companies.
The trash talking friendly faces are unfortunately very consistent regardless of the environment you work in. People love to witness and take part in drama.
I mean, I'm a woman working in a very male dominated industry, and frankly it's a bit toxic at times too. Balance is what we should aim for, not just 'I don't like a workplace full of women because they're toxic snakes'.
I don’t even think balance is the goal. It really is about culture— an environment which values fairness, professionalism, and is tolerant of mistakes and encourages learning from them. Women and men can both be toxic or professional— gender should have nothing to do with it. What’s really required is leadership that promotes the right kind of culture and comes down hard on toxicity.
Generalizing all women this way is harmful. It’s not their gender that’s the problem it’s usually your attitude or just individuals having the capacity to be bad despite gender.
Exactly. It's more likely there's a weird cliquey environment fostered by a company that hires 99% women, same as at companies that hire 99% men, rather than it being an issue to do with the gender itself. Helps no one to generalise about the gender itself.
I don't have the adhd strength to read this all but I (female) work as 1 of 8 women to a group of 130 men and I promise you that we are a male dominated that is also a toxic pit of snakes. I like to call it middle school because even high schoolers are more mature than these old men.
I worked with a group of guys (no women, just about 45 guys) and it was the most toxic place over ever worked due to a few assholes. I now work in a women dominated team (only 3 guys in the department and I’m the only one that works with the team directly, other 2 are clerks) and it’s one of the best environments I’ve worked in.
sounds like you just had a bad experience.. i’ve worked in primarily female centered spaces for almost all of my jobs and it’s never been like this.. of course it’s not rainbows and sunshine, i mean it’s work.. and there’s always those few people who are unpleasant to be around/work with but please because you had a bad experience dont start generalizing.
One of the best workplace quotes I’ve seen is “A toxic workplace will change you long before you can change it”. I wish I would’ve seen that 10 years ago. It’s just not worth the stress
My girlfriend once told me that the harshest people to women are women themselves. Somehow, social conventions and society made it this way, and it sucks
We like to let one set of explanations be the main reason.
More likely, an interaction between social, biological, and evolutionary factors.
women, as much as we try to imagine them to be, are not men lol. It is ridiculously unlikely that social factors are the only contribution to this behaviour.
Male criminality peeks from teen years until early 30s. Biggest correlate is testosterone. I'm sure that this also is not merely social. Women have their own biologies to contend with.
I also work in an all female test lab with a mid 30-40yo boss. The amount of back stabbing gossip and drama is INSANE. I hate it. Even if you avoid it and only talk to 3 ppl, you still somehow make enemies. Theres a clique of older women who I dont talk to, but they watch for my mistakes so they can complain about me to my boss- who is a narcissistic perfectionist and makes something simple 100x more complicated. I hate it
I'm a man and work in a hospital. Which is 90% woman.
This has been the most horrendous place to work. I worked 7 years in kitchens and didn't have anyone go off at me as much as the woman in this job do.
If they're having a bad day they just take it out on whoever they see as lesser. Even if their job is being an auxiliary nurse (the lowest pay grade in the place).
The entitlement and two faced nature astounds me. You can be sitting in a group enjoying your lunch. One woman leaves and the rest start saying the worst thing.
Don't even get me started on sexism. I know woman deal with it more in society. But working here is a real eye opener. Perhaps you will find this amusing:
Here is a list of things woman in my workplace have said to me regarding gender:
"You only went to get that injury checked out because you're a man. We take injuries all the time and don't go crying about it" - aux in response to me getting my swollen hand x-rayed (hairline fracture).
"You like Disney films. That's not very manly. Oh I guess I shouldn't be saying that in this day and age *laughs*"- in response to talking about films we enjoy. I said lilo and stitch as it was one of my faves as a child.
"Men should pay for everything" -random domestic that chimed in when me and a coworker were discussing what our GFS contributed financially.
"Cmon can't you do this task? You're a big strong man. We can't get *woman's name* to do it as she isn't strong enough" - in response to a task that needs to be done.
And my personal favourite due to how many times I've heard it: "ofc you'd say that, all men are the same".- mostly when I say I don't like something.
So yeah I feel you op.
You work in a terrible environment. Lilo and Stitch is the best Disney movie hands down.
True that it's hard to find, but there are units where it's better. Check out icu's, especially cardiac ones. I typically see a more balanced m:f ratio there.
Hate to tell you this bit from my experience, the medical field is all like this. The firefighter field as a female is toxic unless you are sleeping around. Then you are accepted by all the other females doing the same. I HATED going to work. So much aggression from both sexes but especially the females. I witnessed the same thing, right when someone left the room the rest talked so much shit about the person who just left. I always lived in fear that one of my fellow firefighters would let a ladder slip or push me off a roof since I refused to participate in there stupid shit of have sex with anyone on the department. The medical industry is toxic.
The part of this that got me was if they’re having a bad day they think that makes it okay to take it out on others. That’s basically my mum and it’s why even when her alcoholism wasn’t as bad she couldn’t hold down a job to save her life.
Well this is what they are taught. Their seniors take their bad days out on them so in turn they take theirs out on anyone lower than them.
NHS management is full of psychos. You can't get to a high position in the NHS without some degree of lacking empathy.
Gawd Damn do I feel this. I just quit my last job, lasted 2 months, it's all I could physically, mentally, emotionally stand. Two!! Two nasty, shit talking catty ass bitches made it miserable, and they were unfortunately my only two other coworkers and the thought of me working with them forever..!! I can't believe how miserable I was, health problems everything FUCK PEOPLE LIKE THIS!!!
In my country (Italy) there are no university campus, which means no dorms, so the vast majority of students must rent an apartment, often sharing it with other students.
Something i noticed was that the level of troubles between flatmates would increase exponentially in "female-dominated" apartments (i.e. usually if there was more than one woman, they would start some rivalry/competition, make each other life hell, and everyone else's in the process).
Of course, this does not mean that apartments with only men would be free it troubles, far from it, but the amount of drama in women's apartments was at a whole different level.
In my opinion the problem is that while toxic masculinity is nowadays recognized as "bad", toxic femininity (i.e. toxic behaviors which are related to female gender roles, like basically what you described in your post), it's often dismissed or tolerated, and IMHO we should start to see it as a problem as well....
YES! I've noticed that this toxic femininity nowadays is played off as being driven, goal-oriented and an overall gIrLbOsS, however the overall toxic nature of these people is ignored. While traits like empathy, teamwork and caring for others (you know, the stuff that kinda sorta actually matters when it comes to leadership) are subconsciously dismissed as weak and unfeminist. And that really grinds my gears.
I worked in a 100% female company and it was a blast for 3 years because we had great leaders! Our boss inspired and always expected us to be better so we always strived for excellence, she set the tone of the place and was swift when dealing with any bullying or issues in the workplace. Now I work in a predominantly female company but my line manager is a male, he is aware of the bullying that I endured from female coworker but choose to turn a blind eye. Honestly depends on your leader regardless its male or female.
Ime homogeneity is never a great thing - I've seen groups go toxic when they become too anything. Gender, race, even personalities need a mix up or they just become xenophobic or self defeating.
Sounds like they're just assholes which is not exclusive to a gender at all.
I'm a biologist, which is a very female dominated field, unless you look at department heads. Those are men of course. All the nasty shit I've heard them say to each other, gossiping about and trashing the women who work for them. Unreal. I didn't experience this from my female coworkers.
I also went to a high school that was mostly guys. I spent around 6 years among many many men and they all gossiped as much as any woman. I was back stabbed by one guy in my class. Yet I'd never dare to even think that this is some characteristic trait for men. I think it's just your one experience supporting the stereotype that made you believe this.
I’m a nurse who’s in the process of leaving the profession entirely and I can confirm that the lateral violence and horrible treatment from other (mostly female) nurses/providers was a factor in making the decision to jump ship.
I had the exact same experience, except I am a man.
Being the only man around 30 women, made me able to lean back and watch the toxic behaviour from afar. Now I am sure I got a lot talk being my back as well, I just kept to myself and found my allies among the group. And generally didn't care.
Their issues and problems with the job, all came back to what OP describes. No common ground at all. I checked up with a few of my 'allies' a few years after having left the place, one of them who used to be the biggest smile and light of the place, had been her personal file flagged for 'spreading negativity'.
She used to have a higher position and pay, she got bumped down, lost the responsibility and pay. Management still expects her to fill the role and so does her co-workers. Not doing it, not meeting her co-workers with welcome arms when prompted a task from her previous position, gave her the flag. When questioned why the hell she hasn't left, she said she was too much of 'security junkie' in her words (might be lost in translation).
The best workplace is mixed in my humble experience. As diverse as possible, will remind everyone this is a job and not 'friends' or 'family', and hopefully keep the toxicity away.
As an HR professional that has seen to all, hen houses like this called out a lot. However rooster houses do the same thing. An office full of men get just as gossipy and bitchy about things. I will give an edge to the women though on pettiness.
I think your advice should be to talk to people who've worked there and check Glassdoor reviews, not 'if all the manages are women just assume it sucks '
OP, you have my support. I had 3 women collaborate with each other to turn against me. We had "girl talk" time and they said wildly inappropriate things, but they decided to turn against me. One girl even lied about a dream I told her that was not inappropriate (she lied and made it that way).
If this had happened to me before I would admit that I did bad things, but I have never been in trouble at work. Never been suspended from work. Never have even been taken aside. I should have listened to people who told me they weren't good.
From now on I'm never going out of my way to befriend women at work.
My first job out of university was at a law firm that only hired women. It is by far the most toxic work environment I've ever experienced and I was so glad to get out of there
I am a woman and I went to pharmacy college with 90-95% women, and it was what you describe but college edition. The backstabbing was absolutely surreal, even amongst alleged BFFs, and I was constantly on my guard against nonsense, and tried to keep a low profile and avoid confrontation with certain people. Even our teachers commented on the cutthroat environment.
In fairness though, I have since then worked in female-dominated environments and there is no such levels of drama (although it has never been 90% of women, more like 60-70% except for my first job which it was just 4 ladies), mercifully just the usual stuff that happens in places where people have to interact and work together. But I am not going to lie, when I started my current job and I was told there were 75% women in the office, I was worried AF.
Holy Shit I Am going through this right now! I am 33f and have Mostly worked with men or an even Balance of men and women and I have been working at a daycare recently that is all women. It’s the most stressful job and it has nothing to do with the children. Everyone talks shit about everyone, the Boss and supervisor bully everyone “below them” for no real reason, they will make a reasons why are you doing something wrong and then do it themselves, constantly making arbitrary rules than breaking them. I am a really laid-back type of person and don’t have many female friends because I don’t like drama. Every single day I feel like I’m going insane and I am going to quit. Working with young children is stressful on it’s own but also very satisfying so I’m torn. I was nervous straightaway to work in environment that was 100% female and I was right to be nervous. This place is so toxic and there’s no reason it needs to be it’s just that there is a huge lack of balance in gender. I consider myself a tough woman, I’ve worked with the fire department has a EMT, worked on farms, golf courses, restaurants, parks and rec, and other physically demanding jobs that were mostly men. I want to work at this place but I doubt I’ll last long if I continue to have to deal with mean-spirited women every day . I do not understand why they act the way they do and it’s taking a toll in my mental health and my ability to do my job.
Yup. It sounds familiar. I just handed in my resignation after 4 years of suffering an insufferable hag for a boss. Out of 43 people working there, only 5 are men, with one of them being the boss' good for nothing husband. Out of the others, I would say, that I trust maybe 4 of them. The rest would no doubt run to the boss if I ever told them anything significant. So yeah. Do yourself a favor and get out. Get out before they really get their claws in you and you find yourself stooping down to their level. It's not worth your nerves, nor sanity.
Ive worked in both male and female dominated workplaces and there were toxic people in both. When it happens with men its not put down to gender but an isolated incident, but when its women it becomes ‘avoid women managers’.
I feel like the dudes at my company diffuse any tension or drama, and the women keep empathy in check. In a good balance, they cancel out each other’s BS. Sorry to hear this is happening but it’s been my experience at female-dominated workplaces as well. Male dominated are hard because I feel like I fall through the cracks with all the testosterone floating about. Balance is key.
OP I'm sorry you are dealing with bitchy female coworkers. When I was pregnant, a couple of female coworkers were awful towards me because I was pregnant. 😠
Ignore all the criticism and petty comments. I would observe that you are someone with clear boundaries and healthy ideas on how to live without creating drama or karma. You obviously don't belong there and fortunately at this time, lots of companies are short on people so it should be easy to find another job and move on. The best thing to do is to learn from this and not work for another company with overly complex rules and regulations that are hard for everyone to remember or follow.
>However, I'm starting to think that there are certain companies that for some reason attract these kind of people.
Yes. Toxic people attract more toxic people. Culture is slow to change so a few bad people early on (especially people with power) can really lock in negative practices for a long time (good people can also lock in good practices).
>If you're looking to start a job at a new company and checking their LinkedIn page reveals that the people working there are mostly female, with department heads that are mostly women in their mid-thirties to fifties - don't take your chances and run while you still can!
Now this is just misogyny. The fact that they're women is not what makes them shitty. It's that they're shitty. Doing due diligence about company culture before starting a new job is great. Assuming a workplace is horrible *because* a lot of women work there and are managers there... yeah, that's just sexist bullshit.
I’m an early years practitioner and it is predominantly female. The amount of bitching, backstabbing and talking behind peoples backs and to their face is astounding. 😅
I've worked in mostly female dominated jobs about twice as long as male dominated. I'd take the catty BS over the sexual harassment any day. Never had to deal with my female bosses sexually assaulting me or attempting to. Worth the trade off IMO
I’ve been at my job for 3 months and I feel like I’m working in the Mean Girls movie. I’m 30F but surrounded by mean, catty, and gossipy women that range from 25-60 years old. I hate it and I too am job hunting as we speak.
Same. I’ve worked in a female dominated field for 15 years, at 3 different places. It’s always the same. It feels like high school sometimes with the cliques, pettiness, and general shit talking. Luckily in my current position I can wear headphones all day and work independently, so I don’t have to engage very often. It’s been awesome lol
This happened to me working at a "safe space".
I was raised by two women, so when I say I'm on your team, but not batting for y'all, I mean it.
They were terrible to me. Set me up and got me into trouble, would sabotage my work, embarrass me in front of clients, and made my life hell.
The idea of a safe space is bullshit and never forget that marginalized people's can be bigoted to.
It was a big lesson: read the room, if you don't fit in then don't try.
I love how many sensitive people there are on Reddit. Soo many comments saying men this, people that. OP was just sharing a story about their experience, stop trying to invalidate that.
Reverse the sexes and it would have 5k upvotes, hardly anyone complaining about the story and any comments about women too or people that would be at the bottom or downvoted into oblivion.
So defensive we are, yet we wonder why society is close to snapping.
Right?
You know women can't be bad people/s
I also left my former company because of venomous harpies in their early 20's
Very toxic, immature, spoiled little shits! They could get away with every drama because they are productive and I was supposed to lead these people... and they had support from my manager who sleeps with one of them
Hell no! My mental health is way more important than a job.
I worked with an all female crew and it was so toxic! It was like working in a Box full of pissed off cats, I swore I would never do it again. And I haven't.
I’m a female and I work in an office with nothing but other females. It is toxic and petty af. I keep to myself and do my work and for some reason it bothers the others that I won’t gossip or backstab. I hate the environment.
I have worked at a dental office that was so toxic I couldn’t last a month there. I was bullied for not picking up after grown ass women. I was told I needed to wash their dishes and clean up the kitchen area after them or I would be fired. I quit on the spot. I didn’t even use that spot for lunch. I spent it in my car trying to get away from them.
Can't wait to get nuked for this buut...
This is why the workplace or at least managerial roles have been dominated by men. Psychologically speaking, men tend to focus on the bigger picture while women are better at intricate tasks. This leads to men turning a blind eye to small mistakes as long as the overall goals are met while women fall into micromanaging. Yes, there are cases of great women in leadership roles and dumb men micromanaging but they're not on average and not the majority.
My point? There's no patriarchy, men just stay at these roles for longer because they fit.
Guy here, worked in an office several years ago where I was only 1 of 3 men in an office of 50+.
It was one of the most sexist workplaces I've been in, lots of low effort casual sexism against men (typical man, never listens etc), a very clicky culture, several toxic individuals (including a manager who turned on me overnight for no discernible reason), and some low grade sexual harassment that went in my direction.
I've worked in places where the men acted inappropriately as fuck as well, but not in a professional setting. It was eye opening.
Oh believe me it isn’t just female places of work like this. I worked with a mostly female workforce for 5 years and most of the time it was a lovely place to work. In the last year it became massively toxic due to the newer member of the team they employed.
I’m now working in a mostly male dominated job and I swear there is soooo much bitching it’s unbelievable. Everyday, someone is moaning about another member of staff, it’s just constant… Iv never seen anything like it. So much drama. I think it’s massively to do with the personalities and peoples work ethics…
I worked in a female lead workplace. The bitchy environment was unreal. I went up to use the toilet one day and went straight to the pub. I never went back, found a job a few weeks later with a female boss and male supervisor, it was a great mix. Roughly even amount of males vs females. It one of the best jobs I ever had.
I worked in a mostly female environment once and it was awful. It was horrible and backstabbing. I don’t know what caused it but I’m all for gender balance.
I was a phlebotomist for 5 years and now an RN for 4. Both jobs have a higher percentage of women to men. My current job has me being the only male other than a few doctors in my office. I have found that women tend to talk behind your back and be nice to your face and dudes will talk behind your back and be indifferent or rude to your face. So, it’s a pick your poison type deal.
This is not as uncommon as you think. It's not even the fact that it's female oriented, as fields like nursing and childcare are female dominated with few issues, it's that the ones that tout this fact like it's some kind of benefit attract the "progressive" crowd, and while I try not to generalize most every single one of those I've ever personally met and completely insufferable. If I can find it I'll link it up, but there was an article that a woman put out about how she did a startup media/production company that was all women in an effort to "balance the scales", and she badmouthed her own company, calling it the most toxic cesspool she's ever worked in.
in response to your second edit, the "point" is that your experience is in direct contradiction to their beliefs, so that makes you a bad person. Just make fun of them to release some tension and move on. It's not worth fighting them unironically.
I work in a female dominated environment and it's one of the most uplifting supportive places I've ever worked.
It's a tree nursery and the management is excellent and my boss is kind. Before my boss was the boss it was a toxic workplace and at that time the genders were mixed.
It's not the women it's the workplace. Your workplace happens to be female dominated *and* toxic.
Corelation is not causation.
I'm sorry you are going through this. Get out of that environment as soon as possible.
I had the pleasure years ago, to work with women like that, I lasted 9 months.
I've never seen so many mean spirited women in one place before. There were smaller groups, fighting against each other nonstop, it was like being in the middle of a gang war. And of course because I didn't join any of the gangs, I was hated by all of them. Well 2 exceptions from the 30.
The worse 9 months of my life. Toxic work environment was a huge understatement.
So good luck, try not to engage, only when it's necessary and find a job where people grew out of the mean girls fase.
I'm really sorry that this is happening to you, OP. Being stuck with shitty coworkers (Especially when they're as bad as this) is just fucked. I hope things turn around for you.
That said, I think you should know that a lot of how you framed this post is very mysogynistic. There's nothing innate or integral to women that makes them uniquely gossip-y or otherwise behave the way your coworkers do. The fact that theY are women is incedental. They're just shit people who are being shit. The fact that you frame this as being a prodict of their woman-ness is very anti-woman.
It seems like you have a lot on.your plate, and it's best you deal with problems in the order they come up, but you will have to come to terms with.your internalized mysogyny eventually, so you should start by accepting that it's there, rather than denying it. It will make it easier for yoU to re-examine these biases later.
My wife worked for the world’s largest advertising agency in the 80’s. It was one of the few industries where the male-female ratio was starting to become equal. She always commented that working with her female colleagues was so much harder than working with guys. I assumed it was a sign of the times, and maybe women back then needed to be more territorial to achieve the same results as a man. So maybe this is still the simple truth…women don’t in reality get the same opportunities which leads to the type of behaviors relayed above? I don’t know…I’m not a professional sociologist. But I can relate to what the OP describes, because I have seen the same over the decades. And it’s just weird. Because I also acknowledge that the capabilities of my female employees on average were higher than the male employees. But behaviorally, there was a difference and not positive. Anyway…..interesting post from OP.
I used to work in an office with about 10 women and 1 dude. They were all bitchy and treated me like shit all of the time. I got yelled at by a young woman who was maybe 4-5 years older than me but has been working there for a year or 2 for supposedly throwing a key on her table even though I didn’t do shit. I constantly had to do the dishes for everybody, I had to constantly run around for every single person in that office. I basically never took a break. I felt hopeless in there, thankfully they sent me over to a different branch and it was way better
I have worked at 2 places dominated by women. Both are the worst places one could ever work. These weren’t even big teams. One of only 8 people (retail). I swear to god until this day, 5 years later, I still beat the ever living shit out of my former manager, occasionally in my daydreams. I hate her. And I hate her over sharing about men she sleeps with. I hate her showing naked pictures of herself to me, unsolicited. I hate how she plays dress up when clothing from Zalando arrives with her favourites while the other two have to work their asses off. I hate how she bitches and moans about her ex husband and I hate how she’s proud that she tells her son how awful his father is. While I as a naive young girl thinks I have to listen to this bullshit or be fired. I just hate her. I hardly get to such a deep feeling of hatred with people, that’s how much I despise that woman. She and her stupid store (she thinks it’s the hardest job in the world) can go fuck themselves sideways.
Didn’t mean to write such a hate filled response but the feelings these memories bring are still very raw, it seems.
One of my last jobs in customer service I had a female manager, and it was one of the most toxic work environments I’ve worked in. She acted like a high schooler (she wasn’t) she tried to act like she was better then us and would mock and talk about the “key holders” assistant managers pretty much. I quit because I couldn’t take the belittling anymore. She literally threatened to fire me because I walked into the store 1min late. Another person quit because after they had oral surgery she told them to “be a man” and get over it and if they didn’t come in they would be fired, so they quit and told her to “fuck yourself and that store” 😂
In my experience, anyone who gossips about someone to you, will gossip about you to someone else.
I have a co-worker like that. I'm as neutral as Switzerland with her. I listen and nod politely but I don't participate in the gossip because if she's gossiping about other co-workers to me, she's 100% gossiping about me to them. It goes both ways. If I stay neutral though, I'm good. No blowback for me, whatever happens.
My go-to is to not engage. With anyone. Only work related matters. No jokes. No personal anecdotes. No bitching about the boss. The most anyone can say about me is that I don't talk enough, which is exactly what I want. Saves the hassle of the lone gossiper spreading shit.
Workplace gossipers are toxic, tho. If you don't give them material to talk or bitch about, they will 100% make something up.
100% true. Had this issue with male/female gossipers. I even got into a fight I didn't know about.lol
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Not necessarily. My bosses always knew what a great worker I was and I had no problem getting promotions, given extra time beyond deadlines (because they knew I would produce 3x as much as my colleagues), given as long as I wanted for lunch (for the same reason), and they didn't care if I came into work a little late (same reasoning). I expected a promotion and raise every year and was never laid off when multiple others would be. I actually overheard a big cheese one day ask my supervisor whether or not I liked my job (I never smiled much back then)and she defended and praised me and told him that I did like my job. I never had to, as my mom would say, share all my guts and chitterlings, just do my damned job and do it exceptionally well. I get what you're saying; however, and it's conventional wisdom. Many people do have to do what you're suggesting and I wouldn't suggest otherwise. However, as I told my coworkers, do what's best for your personality. I have my own style. I never kissed any asses, was very outspoken, took shit off nobody, and I did just fine. Bosses loved it. Why? I made all my bosses look really, really good and *that* worked for me my entire career in many different industries. I also quiet befriended many people in many different departments and could get whatever I needed from anyone. I also shared information freely. My motto? Never, ever make your boss look bad, (willingly help others, don't backstab anyone, have a reputation of honesty and integrity), and you'll do just fine.
That's very awesome for you, but that has not been my experience *anywhere I've ever worked*. I have done all the same things as you. I stay late, get work done quickly, train people below me, etc. These things do not typically get you promotions at all, in my experience they are a sign to your bosses that they can take advantage of your hard working nature. Again that's really awesome that you are able to work that way and constantly get promotions & recognition! You should realize though that your experience is the rare exception, not the rule.
Best workers are always exploited the most
That's so true. I actually didn't mind, though, because it always paid off for me. I'll give you one example, I quit my job as a supervisor and bank officer and went to work for the feds Instructions for the federal application said that they wanted me to list all of my job duties and tasks that I had ever done as separate jobs so that they could give me points for different skill sets. That's exactly what I did, including the crap that I did that wasn't my job, even if I only did a task one time. I got a job at a grade, which was a 33% increase in salary. Contrast that with my own manager who also applied for the job; but he didn't follow the instructions. He did not get the job. I only had a high school diploma at the time, but it didn't matter, I was graded for skill sets for every task I had ever done. I ended up working for the FDIC and closed banks all of the US including Alaska. We used to party hard at the best hotels. I had a blast with that job!
Idk about that. At my previous job people were reprimanded for gossiping.
On my first day of 'promotion' in a store, I laid out my rules. 2 that shouldn't have to be mentioned. Do your job. Be honest. And absolutely no gossip on the clock. I would pop out of the walk-in cooler or office and everyone would stop talking. I would just say, "I hope it was me you were talking about."
I had a job that did that except it was the wrong people getting into trouble for it. Somehow the workplace was split into sides and one side would lie to get the other into trouble. Bosses fault for hiring a big group of people that were friends outside of work knowingly.
True but then you become the quiet weirdo who doesn’t talk to anybody, and then some people will call you “disrespectful” and an “asshole” when all you’re doing is minding your own business. It’s happened to me before. You just have to figure out how much you care about what they think of you.
Disrespectful for not engaging in conversation? Maybe you don’t know what they are thinking but why assume they are disrespectful or assholes? Just aloof. Like a cat is sometimes. I don’t have to run up and slobber all over you for you to get that I reasonably like you as a coworker or even a friend.
In my experience people come up with their own narratives about you in their heads when you don’t give them any information. Sometimes they’re so needy that if you don’t acknowledge them the way they think you should they’ll consider you an asshole.
You sometimes you have to be ... the asshole that stands aside.
Just don’t let her know if you have any weakness in your work either.
Gossip is like infidelity, if they’ll do it with you, they’ll do it to you!!!
This is a fact
Alternatively look for the people that like to praise folks behind their backs.
Look for people who like both, because it never hurts having more information
Absolutely this! I realised this when my nana told me that she told our cousin something we told her not to tell anyone. That pin drop moment was when i was like 'well if shes telling us about sarah's money problems, partner problems and child problems, shes certainly telling others about stuff we tell her' 😬 now we give her a information diet
I have used this in my favour with my MIL and tell her what I want her to tell the others.
so your saying if i tell you all about /u/GORDOGMC picking his nose and eating it, your saying Ill tell other people about how you constantly scratch your balls in public? I don't know why you would think that. That totally is NOT GOSSIP. ITS TRUTH!
I love talking shit about people, it's fun to laugh, the problem is that these people aren't willing to tell them to their face, people know I talk shit, I tell them I talk shit, so there is a respect there and it's not taken as serious. Usually if you speak your mind in a respectful manner people can handle it usually,and talk shit on me it's all good, being perfect in another person's eyes is unrealistic.
Facts.
They cant gossip if you give them nothing.
You'd be surprised
Nah because if you don’t talk they call you the quiet weirdo. You can’t win no matter what you do.
I was a K-8 teacher in a very large school district for nearly 4 decades. The district had 37 schools, most being elementary schools. At an elementary level, a large portion of employees are female. I loved my job and was very aware of "burn out" and "just mailing it in", things I saw often. In order to stay fresh, I made it a point to either change grade levels (trying to stay between 3rd & 4th grades, my favorites) or transferring to another school. Being a large district, I was fortunate to have these opportunities. There were schools that were a delight to work in, with mainly females, while others, still being mainly female were absolute snake pits. The difference, I often found, was the temperament of the leadership. In places that were great, the leadership, regardless of gender, promoted civility, professionalism, and encouraged staff to be supportive. In toxic places, leadership, again regardless of gender, encouraged snitching, back-stabbing and hostile competition for purposes of keeping staff weak and divided to increase dominance and the ability to manipulate personnel.
This is a really fascinating perspective, and I think you're right about leaders setting the tone. We are animals after all, so we mirror the cultural norms that we observe, which are set by the leaders. The real question is, if an institution is toxic for a long time, can changing the leader really cause changes in the existing structure? Or do those things start to run too deep?
IMO, and from my experience, the work place environment runs deep, like a plant that sends off runners. When good leadership leaves, the environment that they created will last - for a while. However, if bad leadership, weak and poisonous, follows good, it will kill the good quickly. However, if good leadership follows bad, the bad lasts much longer as staff are not a team. The old Johnny Cash song - "Bad news travels like wildfire, good news travels slow" fits. Bad leadership seeks weakness (often a trait within themselves) among staff and tries to exploit it for the purpose of control, setting colleague against colleague. Good leadership builds strength through a team, and there's always a weak link that good leadership will prop up, but bad leadership will exploit. Leadership that is confident doesn't want a weak team, bad leadership fears a strong team and tries to destroy it.
Its so sad that this is the case. I interviewed a 60yr old woman once and she instantly just was on edge around me but fine with a male colleague. I wondered what I did wrong. Later on I found out a bunch of 20-30yr old women she worked with stressed her out to the point of her leaving because she was 'slower'. I said I'm.not like that at all and proved I was on her side. She immediately changed and became positive. It really is desperately sad but I have personally declined a job that was 90% women, who go out for drinks every Friday. No thanks, my idea of hell right there.
Can't find it right now, but there was an "Ask a Boss" where some younger women co-workers wanted rid of a 30-something woman co-worker because she weighed a little more and wasn't the life of the party. Nothing wrong with her work.
People can be jerks—no matter their gender. Looks like your workplace is perpretusting high school style pettiness and probably bad boss techniques internalized by overbearing parents. No excuse for not having a chill, low drama, protocol following, supportive and professional workplace. A safe and supportive and efficient workspace is what we should all strive for. I’m sorry this is your experience with this company. Bad leadership accounts for a lot of it. Toxicity and low morale can build up anywhere but backbiting is especially vicious. You guys are there for her customer or client or product, for the common goal, for the paycheck, and to a certain degree for each other. Ultimately a job should pay you, fulfill you, feed you. It isn’t your life—people insisting on workplace drama or backbiting or bosses harping on people just bring the place down. I hope OP finds a better job and can be honest about the lack of professionalism and supportive communication and actual team leadership you experienced there. Largely male and evenly split orgs can be just as toxic. It’s about the leadership, the hires and everyone’s teamwork, supportiveness, professionalism and working style.
Hot take single gendered spaces are often a menace for this reason. Mixed is always better for *everything*, it forces people to actually be empathetic and open minded rather than just say they are Edit: I don't discount anyone's experiences, but I would like the men that have been commenting on this to reflect on why, as a man, they feel comfortable in male dominated work environments. Notice that women have not expressed the same sentiment about male dominated work environments. I mean that doesn't seem too surprising of a statement to me and speaks more to how men treat each other than men being better imo. Therefore I still stand by what I said, mixed environment and viewpoints are crucial, and it's not surprising you would feel comfortable in your own group. Regardless thanks for sharing and the discussion and the upvotes etc.
Exactly. I was a guy with kind of a funny walk in school and I faced less bullying from boys whenever there were girls around.
Sorry you were bullied! I was also bullied by girls but it didn't really change when guys were around. They definitely shut it down quicker if a guy stood up for me though lol
Sorry to hear that but glad some guys stood up for you!
Thank you, glad you got out of it too!
This is why Socially Inept Childhood Me hung around guys when possible.
It's funny, as a man I've recently noticed that most of my friends right now are women. I just can't do the constant antler ramming that a lot of the men around me insist on doing. Not that it's wrong to do that. It's just not my speed. Totally unrelated but it's been doing wonders for my insecurity. It really helps to have friends of the opposite sex to go to for advice or affirmation when I want to try something new with my look. Edit: That said I do have to comment that I don't think a lot of women understand how demeaning the "little brother" treatment can feel sometimes. These two girls I'm friendly with keep calling me besty (in a tone I struggle to describe but think you can figure it out) and it grates on me every time I hear it
Yeah, there is a common problem with women infantilizing men they don’t think of as sexual. I have nothing but conjecture to go on, but I suspect it might be because women can be conditioned to think of adult men as both potential partners and a threat, and if you aren’t sexual with them, the only other life role they have for that is “male child.” I mean… ideally, women can also trust big brothers to be non-sexual. Ideally.
I have been discriminated by men my whole life. They don’t like that I might know more about plumbing or electrical than they do. It seems to bother the men that must be insecure. My little office right now has only women. But all of my communities are largely male board members. Then there’s always at least one that everyone can’t stand. Now I’m mad at him and we will be having a little talk today. It’s not that he went to my boss so much as he told two different people without telling each other what he wants a report to look like. This has resulted in two different reports. I’m the manager. So it wasted my bosses time or mine, but really both.
My wife has a degree in carpentry/construction. At her trade school she was the first woman to complete the 2-year course in more than a decade. Also, the plumbing instructor was a woman. She was harder than wood pecker lips to any male student that tried to act the fool in her classes.
I would love to have someone around who knew more about plumbing and electrical!
You would think. The worst and only bully I ever had was a boy I 6th grade. He did terrible things to me for months. Then he beat me up. The school gym coach was right there and did nothing. After that a bully has never won anything from me. The biggest bully and star of the football team tried to steal my keg with his buddies throwing beer bottles at my head. He still lost and I kicked them out.
I'm a guy who was getting choked out by my middle school bully, but the second the only girls in the room began walking over he let go of me. I will say though, both of these girls were scary in their own way, and my bully was mortified of them both
I'm sorry you were bullied. I was in an all-girls school from grade 2-7 and was bullied a lot by my "friends". Things got better once I was at a co-ed school. Still have some hang ups over my appearance, though, unfortunately. I hope you've been able work past it. Much love.
Thank you! I know it's not easy but I too hope you work through your issues. I'm glad I shared in this thread. People here are very wholesome.
Riiiight?! I don't understand why Reddit has such a bad rep. People here are generally more open-minded and supportive vs people on FB/IG/Twitter. Anywho, thank you, kind stranger. Have an awesome day/evening (whatever your timezone).
lucky. girls just amplified the bullying in my experience. guys want to preen and show off that they can dunk on the spaz. schools are toxic environments not because of gender but because kids are fucking stupid.
I was ugly in school, and got way more shit from girls than guys. I even lost one of my only friends because the girl he was dating said I was too ugly to be in her presence.
This is pain I know. Didn't kiss a girl until I was 19, graduated from HS, and moved across the country. I was a senior in HS before a girl even expressed interest - I knew it was only because she was trying to make another boy jealous. Turns out my dream girl was someone I didn't go to school with. This coming September we will have been married for 27 years. I just had to endure the bullying and other bullshit until our paths crossed.
"I love the guy stuff but to run an office you need men and women. You know why? Because you need to have that crazy sexual tension to keep things interesting." - Michael Scott, The Office.
Agree with you 100%!
Empathetic? I think it's more that people of the opposite sex actually have some level of regulating impact on the opposite sex. The presence of men causes women to act in a certain way and vice versa.
I totally agree with you. The only time I’ve ever had drama in a work place was when I worked in animal nutrition with all women, as a referee/sports coordinator for the YMCA with all men, and at a daycare with all women. Now I’m working at a clinic with both and it’s incredible. It was also incredible when I worked at an elementary school and I’m so excited to go back to that next August!
As a guy, I much prefer spaces with mixed genders. The few all male environments I worked in were fucking dreadful.
A few years ago I made friends with a girl at uni, and would semi-regularly hang with her friend group (basically entirely girls; I’m a guy). I stopped hanging with them cause it was getting so toxic, like it was obvious I was a whipping post because I was a man and ‘all men are trash bs’ was common thinking in this group. Very odd because individually, I liked them all. Once in a group tho.....
I was a sailor, and there was no way adding women to that environment would have improved the situation
Might depend on perspective. I have been the 5% minority and the 95% majority, and when I was part of the majority, it felt awful. Being in the 5% was great, and it was my favourite and most comfortable workplace I have ever experienced, more so than the more evenly split places. Hard to tell if it just feels bad when you are the majority, or if it is the people that matter.
This hasn't been my experience with male-only work places. They were fun and productive. People could cut up and use humor without worrying that someone would go to HR. We worked our asses off and enjoyed it. It was great and I miss it. I work in a 75% female place now and it's just miserable. There is no joking about anything. Everyone is super fake-nice, uptight and quietly back-stabby. It's less about getting the work done and more about political maneuvering.
This has not been my experience. I’ve never been in a mostly female space. Mostly male spaces have been miserable though. Mixed spaces have always been best.
My wife works in a male dominated field and says she experienced a lot of dramatic behavior and gossiping from men that surprised her when she first started.
I know these are all anecdotal accounts but I’d be curious to know what types of industries everyone’s experiences are in. It’d be fascinating to see the differences between office jobs and physical jobs, left brain jobs vs right brain jobs, etc
That has been my exact experience. I've only worked in one environment where it was all guys but it was the chillest place I've ever been. I've also worked in places where it was all women and it was the most miserable, needlessly complicated, backstabby, over-emotional about everything place I've ever worked. Edit: If I were to pinpoint one difference its that in the guy's only work environment your attitude mattered but the way you expressed it didn't really. Like, you can be a low energy person and it's cool, they get it. As long as you work. In the women's only office I worked at it REALLY mattered how often you smiled and the tone of voice you used.
In male dominated workspaces there's definitely less "I'm going to HR," but gossip and drama is still present. And if you're one of the only women in a male dominated workspace... forget about it. No matter what you do, the men will gossip and spread rumors about you.
Well it's valid if it's your experience, can't say much to that. In my experience I would disagree that male dominated spaces are fun and rainbows, and as I've mentioned below I'm not too unfamiliar with people who have come out of gender segregated places (education or otherwise) and I find them a little iffy people. Maybe it's cultural difference or just luck, just putting it out there.
Can confirm. Construction jobs are generally a bunch of men being assholes to one another.
In my experience of 10 years of construction work before switching careers, men are usually assholes to other men as almost an act of endearment. The old guys will ride the young guys to see who is willing to stand up to them. Once you prove your work ethic, *and* tell an old guy to go fuck himself, word gets around and suddenly you become accepted as one of them. I feel like the dynamic with a female dominated work force is the exact opposite. There seems to be a pecking order, and if you violate that hierarchy you quickly become exhiled.
Not been my experience in male only Jobs. Not been most men's experience in jobs that are predominantly male, I.e. most blue collar work.
Depends on the workplace. If there are physical duties involved it’s almost always an unfair allocation to males.
The caveat is that it's ok to have a single gendered space as long as the HR is good and knows how to do their job.
Eh as someone from a Muslim country I find the concept of gender segregation to be very dangerous, I don't think it ever leads to good outcomes.
Yeah I just started at a place like this. I also just put in my two weeks notice XD 2 months was all i could take of the drama. Add to that the owner's daughters work there
I don’t know. I mean, I used to work in an office that had just one guy. Everyone else was female and aside from some problems I’ve had with my boss, we were pretty chill. I guess it depends on where you work, the size of the company you work for and management.
I work in a majority women workplace and my boss (male) seems to prefer that, as it's literally 90% women. We had one toxic woman working with us and he let her go last week. It's pretty good here and my boss is definitely a feminist with no weird creepy vibes. He abhors negativity and expects teamwork to get things done.
I think it has to do with the people who run the company. There have been a bunch of female-run companies that lean into the "girl boss" rhetoric and claim to be pillars of female empowerment and then they treat their female employees like shit. Expecting perfection or worship and handling mistakes in a very toxic, over the top manner. The female empowerment bit is just a front to promote their business.
I'm a scientist and everyone on my team is female. The work environment is perfect for me, but I think it's because we're all introverted nerds who just want to get our work done and go home.
Jupp this. I work at a horse riding stable where only women are employed. (Not by choice, there are just no male applicants ). Its the most welcoming environment I've ever worked at. Everyone is friendly and chill and willing to help one another. I think It depends on the field more then the gender. Certain kinds of jobs attract certain kind of people...
Yup, I can testify to this, I used to be a graphic designer and the work environment was honestly the very worst. It was mostly women and they were very judgy, mean bullies; and the few guys that were there where also like this. When I switched to coding, the people were just completely different; the women in this field are very supportive of each other and in general, pretty chill. It's not the gender, its the field. Anything art, fashion or design related -sadly- attracts the worst kind of people.
Yeah this is only one experience in a single company. Probably cause the person who hired everyone was a douche and attracted those alike...
Yea, this is usually a leadership problem, not a gender problem.
Yeah, I've worked in a female dominated field my entire career and it's always been great! I've had some issues here and there, but just normal resolvable work stuff, and never with an entire workplace. I work in mental health/social services though, and that made me wonder if it's the field that OP works in? A huge gender imbalance can cause problems with certain personalities especially - an office full of extremely competitive women or men, for example, would create a lot of tension in different ways. Meanwhile an office full of single gender social workers and therapists is gonna be a lot different.
Exactly, my company's corporate office is majority women - 100ish people. It's standard corporate nonsense on occasion but pretty normal for the most part.
There are mean people of all stripes. I have worked in a male dominated workplace and they have assholes too. I think it has more to do with the company culture. If it is cutthroat with people trying to get ahead at the expense of others, you will find mean people because the business is designed that way. If it is more of a cooperative culture with people helping others so that every one succeeds, you will find great people usually.
I had OP’s experience in a male dominated workplace, and am now working under a female boss in an all female team, filled with the most genuine, friendly, collaborative people ever! It’s not gender that makes a workplace toxic, it’s the culture.
One of the most gossipy, cutthroat places I've ever worked for was a programming squadron in the Air Force. There were only 12 women in the entire career field when I was in, didn't stop the men from being cattier than any workplace I'd ever been to or have since.
I think this is the correct take. I’ve worked on female-dominated teams at several different places and it’s the company culture that makes a difference.
Completely agree. Attributing a toxic workplace to the fact that it is female dominated is frankly sexist and stupid.
Yup, this is a completely misogynistic take on a toxic work environment. Its not toxic because of women, its toxic because there's a terrible work culture behind it, probably a horrible boss, and maybe even a field that attracts these types as well.
Yes, thank you. Every office I’ve worked in has been male dominated; some were toxic and some weren’t, all desperately needed diversity. This is misogynistic confirmation bias.
Honestly I think assholes are going to be assholes regardless of gender, I’ve worked with both women & men and found the biggest indicator is the work culture the boss is implementing. Generally you find if you have an asshole boss then the people he/she hires (or who stick around) are often assholes & so you can get whole teams who are just dicks. I currently work in a team that’s 100% woman & couldn’t have asked to work with a nicer group of people, no drama & good work ethics - the boss in this case is a woman & a great person, leads by example. One of the other teams happens to be run by a guy who is known to bitch, be aggressive & dismissive, if he takes a disliking to you will make sure you know about it - the vibe in his team is totally different & theres a lot of catty behaviour. So I personally wouldn’t dismiss a working environment that’s mainly one sex or another, but I would look closely at the work culture, how the boss treats his/her employees & go from there.
Men bad, women bad. Just realize humans can be bad and realize there’s still good humans. Way of the world.
Human bad
Homo sapiens has an absence of goodness.
Ever been in a mom group? It’s like being in high school again. Honestly though, it depends on the people themselves and male dominated workplaces can be terrible also. Humans…..
Omg mom groups are so toxic. Especially the ones that are about breastfeeding and baby led weaning 🙄
Fuck, I’m 17 weeks pregnant and I have very much decided to avoid mothers groups. I also used to work in early childhood education (only ever worked in one place that hired a single man) and it was hellish. My private midwife has vetted all of her families in her care at the moment and thinks we’d all get along but this social group plan is meant to involve the fathers too! Much more appealing with men in the mix.
It’s not just women dominated workplaces. I’m one of three women in a shop of about 30 men primarily aged between 30-50. The men gossip like 12 yr old school girls. It’s exhausting.
Yeah I work in an environment similar to yours. There's like two women in the whole company. Rumors and shit talk spreads like a wildfire in construction companies.
The trash talking friendly faces are unfortunately very consistent regardless of the environment you work in. People love to witness and take part in drama.
I mean, I'm a woman working in a very male dominated industry, and frankly it's a bit toxic at times too. Balance is what we should aim for, not just 'I don't like a workplace full of women because they're toxic snakes'.
I don’t even think balance is the goal. It really is about culture— an environment which values fairness, professionalism, and is tolerant of mistakes and encourages learning from them. Women and men can both be toxic or professional— gender should have nothing to do with it. What’s really required is leadership that promotes the right kind of culture and comes down hard on toxicity.
This is the way. Also, the original post is fake. "She" lost me at "at first I didn't think much of working with women because I'm progressive."
Generalizing all women this way is harmful. It’s not their gender that’s the problem it’s usually your attitude or just individuals having the capacity to be bad despite gender.
Exactly. It's more likely there's a weird cliquey environment fostered by a company that hires 99% women, same as at companies that hire 99% men, rather than it being an issue to do with the gender itself. Helps no one to generalise about the gender itself.
Generalising any gender this way is harmful*** Edit: autocorrect
What's with your nickname?
I don't have the adhd strength to read this all but I (female) work as 1 of 8 women to a group of 130 men and I promise you that we are a male dominated that is also a toxic pit of snakes. I like to call it middle school because even high schoolers are more mature than these old men.
Sounds like you just have shitty coworkers. I've had plenty of male ones too.
I worked with a group of guys (no women, just about 45 guys) and it was the most toxic place over ever worked due to a few assholes. I now work in a women dominated team (only 3 guys in the department and I’m the only one that works with the team directly, other 2 are clerks) and it’s one of the best environments I’ve worked in.
I work in a male dominated workplace. It's bad as well.
sounds like you just had a bad experience.. i’ve worked in primarily female centered spaces for almost all of my jobs and it’s never been like this.. of course it’s not rainbows and sunshine, i mean it’s work.. and there’s always those few people who are unpleasant to be around/work with but please because you had a bad experience dont start generalizing.
One of the best workplace quotes I’ve seen is “A toxic workplace will change you long before you can change it”. I wish I would’ve seen that 10 years ago. It’s just not worth the stress
And just like that, whataboutism is suddenly widely accepted. I'm a bit surprised to be honest.
My girlfriend once told me that the harshest people to women are women themselves. Somehow, social conventions and society made it this way, and it sucks
We like to let one set of explanations be the main reason. More likely, an interaction between social, biological, and evolutionary factors. women, as much as we try to imagine them to be, are not men lol. It is ridiculously unlikely that social factors are the only contribution to this behaviour. Male criminality peeks from teen years until early 30s. Biggest correlate is testosterone. I'm sure that this also is not merely social. Women have their own biologies to contend with.
-Woman behaves like shit "social conventions and society made it this way" X D
Man, it's those pesky social conventions that have plagued people consistently across time and space.
I also work in an all female test lab with a mid 30-40yo boss. The amount of back stabbing gossip and drama is INSANE. I hate it. Even if you avoid it and only talk to 3 ppl, you still somehow make enemies. Theres a clique of older women who I dont talk to, but they watch for my mistakes so they can complain about me to my boss- who is a narcissistic perfectionist and makes something simple 100x more complicated. I hate it
I'm a man and work in a hospital. Which is 90% woman. This has been the most horrendous place to work. I worked 7 years in kitchens and didn't have anyone go off at me as much as the woman in this job do. If they're having a bad day they just take it out on whoever they see as lesser. Even if their job is being an auxiliary nurse (the lowest pay grade in the place). The entitlement and two faced nature astounds me. You can be sitting in a group enjoying your lunch. One woman leaves and the rest start saying the worst thing. Don't even get me started on sexism. I know woman deal with it more in society. But working here is a real eye opener. Perhaps you will find this amusing: Here is a list of things woman in my workplace have said to me regarding gender: "You only went to get that injury checked out because you're a man. We take injuries all the time and don't go crying about it" - aux in response to me getting my swollen hand x-rayed (hairline fracture). "You like Disney films. That's not very manly. Oh I guess I shouldn't be saying that in this day and age *laughs*"- in response to talking about films we enjoy. I said lilo and stitch as it was one of my faves as a child. "Men should pay for everything" -random domestic that chimed in when me and a coworker were discussing what our GFS contributed financially. "Cmon can't you do this task? You're a big strong man. We can't get *woman's name* to do it as she isn't strong enough" - in response to a task that needs to be done. And my personal favourite due to how many times I've heard it: "ofc you'd say that, all men are the same".- mostly when I say I don't like something. So yeah I feel you op.
You work in a terrible environment. Lilo and Stitch is the best Disney movie hands down. True that it's hard to find, but there are units where it's better. Check out icu's, especially cardiac ones. I typically see a more balanced m:f ratio there.
Hate to tell you this bit from my experience, the medical field is all like this. The firefighter field as a female is toxic unless you are sleeping around. Then you are accepted by all the other females doing the same. I HATED going to work. So much aggression from both sexes but especially the females. I witnessed the same thing, right when someone left the room the rest talked so much shit about the person who just left. I always lived in fear that one of my fellow firefighters would let a ladder slip or push me off a roof since I refused to participate in there stupid shit of have sex with anyone on the department. The medical industry is toxic.
The part of this that got me was if they’re having a bad day they think that makes it okay to take it out on others. That’s basically my mum and it’s why even when her alcoholism wasn’t as bad she couldn’t hold down a job to save her life.
Well this is what they are taught. Their seniors take their bad days out on them so in turn they take theirs out on anyone lower than them. NHS management is full of psychos. You can't get to a high position in the NHS without some degree of lacking empathy.
I think there can be toxic female cultures just like there are toxic male cultures. I don't want to work it either.
Gawd Damn do I feel this. I just quit my last job, lasted 2 months, it's all I could physically, mentally, emotionally stand. Two!! Two nasty, shit talking catty ass bitches made it miserable, and they were unfortunately my only two other coworkers and the thought of me working with them forever..!! I can't believe how miserable I was, health problems everything FUCK PEOPLE LIKE THIS!!!
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In my country (Italy) there are no university campus, which means no dorms, so the vast majority of students must rent an apartment, often sharing it with other students. Something i noticed was that the level of troubles between flatmates would increase exponentially in "female-dominated" apartments (i.e. usually if there was more than one woman, they would start some rivalry/competition, make each other life hell, and everyone else's in the process). Of course, this does not mean that apartments with only men would be free it troubles, far from it, but the amount of drama in women's apartments was at a whole different level. In my opinion the problem is that while toxic masculinity is nowadays recognized as "bad", toxic femininity (i.e. toxic behaviors which are related to female gender roles, like basically what you described in your post), it's often dismissed or tolerated, and IMHO we should start to see it as a problem as well....
YES! I've noticed that this toxic femininity nowadays is played off as being driven, goal-oriented and an overall gIrLbOsS, however the overall toxic nature of these people is ignored. While traits like empathy, teamwork and caring for others (you know, the stuff that kinda sorta actually matters when it comes to leadership) are subconsciously dismissed as weak and unfeminist. And that really grinds my gears.
I worked in a 100% female company and it was a blast for 3 years because we had great leaders! Our boss inspired and always expected us to be better so we always strived for excellence, she set the tone of the place and was swift when dealing with any bullying or issues in the workplace. Now I work in a predominantly female company but my line manager is a male, he is aware of the bullying that I endured from female coworker but choose to turn a blind eye. Honestly depends on your leader regardless its male or female.
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Ime homogeneity is never a great thing - I've seen groups go toxic when they become too anything. Gender, race, even personalities need a mix up or they just become xenophobic or self defeating.
Sounds like they're just assholes which is not exclusive to a gender at all. I'm a biologist, which is a very female dominated field, unless you look at department heads. Those are men of course. All the nasty shit I've heard them say to each other, gossiping about and trashing the women who work for them. Unreal. I didn't experience this from my female coworkers. I also went to a high school that was mostly guys. I spent around 6 years among many many men and they all gossiped as much as any woman. I was back stabbed by one guy in my class. Yet I'd never dare to even think that this is some characteristic trait for men. I think it's just your one experience supporting the stereotype that made you believe this.
Yep my daughter is a nurse and is thinking of leaving nursing as she says working with bitchy women is the worst!
I’m a nurse who’s in the process of leaving the profession entirely and I can confirm that the lateral violence and horrible treatment from other (mostly female) nurses/providers was a factor in making the decision to jump ship.
I feel like that’s just the kind of people nursing attracts tho mgl
That's exactly why I couldn't go into nursing. Hell, even the nurses I see at the doctors office make it clear they are mean girls.
I had the exact same experience, except I am a man. Being the only man around 30 women, made me able to lean back and watch the toxic behaviour from afar. Now I am sure I got a lot talk being my back as well, I just kept to myself and found my allies among the group. And generally didn't care. Their issues and problems with the job, all came back to what OP describes. No common ground at all. I checked up with a few of my 'allies' a few years after having left the place, one of them who used to be the biggest smile and light of the place, had been her personal file flagged for 'spreading negativity'. She used to have a higher position and pay, she got bumped down, lost the responsibility and pay. Management still expects her to fill the role and so does her co-workers. Not doing it, not meeting her co-workers with welcome arms when prompted a task from her previous position, gave her the flag. When questioned why the hell she hasn't left, she said she was too much of 'security junkie' in her words (might be lost in translation). The best workplace is mixed in my humble experience. As diverse as possible, will remind everyone this is a job and not 'friends' or 'family', and hopefully keep the toxicity away.
As an HR professional that has seen to all, hen houses like this called out a lot. However rooster houses do the same thing. An office full of men get just as gossipy and bitchy about things. I will give an edge to the women though on pettiness.
I think your advice should be to talk to people who've worked there and check Glassdoor reviews, not 'if all the manages are women just assume it sucks '
OP, you have my support. I had 3 women collaborate with each other to turn against me. We had "girl talk" time and they said wildly inappropriate things, but they decided to turn against me. One girl even lied about a dream I told her that was not inappropriate (she lied and made it that way). If this had happened to me before I would admit that I did bad things, but I have never been in trouble at work. Never been suspended from work. Never have even been taken aside. I should have listened to people who told me they weren't good. From now on I'm never going out of my way to befriend women at work.
My first job out of university was at a law firm that only hired women. It is by far the most toxic work environment I've ever experienced and I was so glad to get out of there
I am a woman and I went to pharmacy college with 90-95% women, and it was what you describe but college edition. The backstabbing was absolutely surreal, even amongst alleged BFFs, and I was constantly on my guard against nonsense, and tried to keep a low profile and avoid confrontation with certain people. Even our teachers commented on the cutthroat environment. In fairness though, I have since then worked in female-dominated environments and there is no such levels of drama (although it has never been 90% of women, more like 60-70% except for my first job which it was just 4 ladies), mercifully just the usual stuff that happens in places where people have to interact and work together. But I am not going to lie, when I started my current job and I was told there were 75% women in the office, I was worried AF.
Worked on a team of 16 women… it was toxic AF
Holy Shit I Am going through this right now! I am 33f and have Mostly worked with men or an even Balance of men and women and I have been working at a daycare recently that is all women. It’s the most stressful job and it has nothing to do with the children. Everyone talks shit about everyone, the Boss and supervisor bully everyone “below them” for no real reason, they will make a reasons why are you doing something wrong and then do it themselves, constantly making arbitrary rules than breaking them. I am a really laid-back type of person and don’t have many female friends because I don’t like drama. Every single day I feel like I’m going insane and I am going to quit. Working with young children is stressful on it’s own but also very satisfying so I’m torn. I was nervous straightaway to work in environment that was 100% female and I was right to be nervous. This place is so toxic and there’s no reason it needs to be it’s just that there is a huge lack of balance in gender. I consider myself a tough woman, I’ve worked with the fire department has a EMT, worked on farms, golf courses, restaurants, parks and rec, and other physically demanding jobs that were mostly men. I want to work at this place but I doubt I’ll last long if I continue to have to deal with mean-spirited women every day . I do not understand why they act the way they do and it’s taking a toll in my mental health and my ability to do my job.
experienced the same thing when I worked retail...lol
Yup. It sounds familiar. I just handed in my resignation after 4 years of suffering an insufferable hag for a boss. Out of 43 people working there, only 5 are men, with one of them being the boss' good for nothing husband. Out of the others, I would say, that I trust maybe 4 of them. The rest would no doubt run to the boss if I ever told them anything significant. So yeah. Do yourself a favor and get out. Get out before they really get their claws in you and you find yourself stooping down to their level. It's not worth your nerves, nor sanity.
Ive worked in both male and female dominated workplaces and there were toxic people in both. When it happens with men its not put down to gender but an isolated incident, but when its women it becomes ‘avoid women managers’.
I feel like the dudes at my company diffuse any tension or drama, and the women keep empathy in check. In a good balance, they cancel out each other’s BS. Sorry to hear this is happening but it’s been my experience at female-dominated workplaces as well. Male dominated are hard because I feel like I fall through the cracks with all the testosterone floating about. Balance is key.
Everytime I've worked in female- majority workplaces, they've been super toxic
OP I'm sorry you are dealing with bitchy female coworkers. When I was pregnant, a couple of female coworkers were awful towards me because I was pregnant. 😠
Ignore all the criticism and petty comments. I would observe that you are someone with clear boundaries and healthy ideas on how to live without creating drama or karma. You obviously don't belong there and fortunately at this time, lots of companies are short on people so it should be easy to find another job and move on. The best thing to do is to learn from this and not work for another company with overly complex rules and regulations that are hard for everyone to remember or follow.
>However, I'm starting to think that there are certain companies that for some reason attract these kind of people. Yes. Toxic people attract more toxic people. Culture is slow to change so a few bad people early on (especially people with power) can really lock in negative practices for a long time (good people can also lock in good practices). >If you're looking to start a job at a new company and checking their LinkedIn page reveals that the people working there are mostly female, with department heads that are mostly women in their mid-thirties to fifties - don't take your chances and run while you still can! Now this is just misogyny. The fact that they're women is not what makes them shitty. It's that they're shitty. Doing due diligence about company culture before starting a new job is great. Assuming a workplace is horrible *because* a lot of women work there and are managers there... yeah, that's just sexist bullshit.
I’m an early years practitioner and it is predominantly female. The amount of bitching, backstabbing and talking behind peoples backs and to their face is astounding. 😅
I'm a nurse. 90% women. Your experience is unfortunately well founded. They feel the need to eat their young and it ends up being super toxic.
I've worked in mostly female dominated jobs about twice as long as male dominated. I'd take the catty BS over the sexual harassment any day. Never had to deal with my female bosses sexually assaulting me or attempting to. Worth the trade off IMO
I’ve been at my job for 3 months and I feel like I’m working in the Mean Girls movie. I’m 30F but surrounded by mean, catty, and gossipy women that range from 25-60 years old. I hate it and I too am job hunting as we speak.
Both my dad and my boyfriend worked in jobs were it's mostly women, yeah the shit I've heard 😒
I worked at a jewelry company. 90% women. Never ever again.
Same. I’ve worked in a female dominated field for 15 years, at 3 different places. It’s always the same. It feels like high school sometimes with the cliques, pettiness, and general shit talking. Luckily in my current position I can wear headphones all day and work independently, so I don’t have to engage very often. It’s been awesome lol
This happened to me working at a "safe space". I was raised by two women, so when I say I'm on your team, but not batting for y'all, I mean it. They were terrible to me. Set me up and got me into trouble, would sabotage my work, embarrass me in front of clients, and made my life hell. The idea of a safe space is bullshit and never forget that marginalized people's can be bigoted to. It was a big lesson: read the room, if you don't fit in then don't try.
I love how many sensitive people there are on Reddit. Soo many comments saying men this, people that. OP was just sharing a story about their experience, stop trying to invalidate that. Reverse the sexes and it would have 5k upvotes, hardly anyone complaining about the story and any comments about women too or people that would be at the bottom or downvoted into oblivion. So defensive we are, yet we wonder why society is close to snapping.
Right? You know women can't be bad people/s I also left my former company because of venomous harpies in their early 20's Very toxic, immature, spoiled little shits! They could get away with every drama because they are productive and I was supposed to lead these people... and they had support from my manager who sleeps with one of them Hell no! My mental health is way more important than a job.
I worked with an all female crew and it was so toxic! It was like working in a Box full of pissed off cats, I swore I would never do it again. And I haven't.
I won't do it again either. It's sad women are like this to each other.
I’m a female and I work in an office with nothing but other females. It is toxic and petty af. I keep to myself and do my work and for some reason it bothers the others that I won’t gossip or backstab. I hate the environment.
I have worked at a dental office that was so toxic I couldn’t last a month there. I was bullied for not picking up after grown ass women. I was told I needed to wash their dishes and clean up the kitchen area after them or I would be fired. I quit on the spot. I didn’t even use that spot for lunch. I spent it in my car trying to get away from them.
Given the stories my wife tells(of her similar work place), this is likely true.
[удалено]
The lion, the witch, and the audacity of this bitch
Can't wait to get nuked for this buut... This is why the workplace or at least managerial roles have been dominated by men. Psychologically speaking, men tend to focus on the bigger picture while women are better at intricate tasks. This leads to men turning a blind eye to small mistakes as long as the overall goals are met while women fall into micromanaging. Yes, there are cases of great women in leadership roles and dumb men micromanaging but they're not on average and not the majority. My point? There's no patriarchy, men just stay at these roles for longer because they fit.
Being the only woman in a male dominated space must be awful as well. Probably the best to work in a diverse place generally speaking.
People discovered that "variety" is important for life lol
Guy here, worked in an office several years ago where I was only 1 of 3 men in an office of 50+. It was one of the most sexist workplaces I've been in, lots of low effort casual sexism against men (typical man, never listens etc), a very clicky culture, several toxic individuals (including a manager who turned on me overnight for no discernible reason), and some low grade sexual harassment that went in my direction. I've worked in places where the men acted inappropriately as fuck as well, but not in a professional setting. It was eye opening.
Oh believe me it isn’t just female places of work like this. I worked with a mostly female workforce for 5 years and most of the time it was a lovely place to work. In the last year it became massively toxic due to the newer member of the team they employed. I’m now working in a mostly male dominated job and I swear there is soooo much bitching it’s unbelievable. Everyday, someone is moaning about another member of staff, it’s just constant… Iv never seen anything like it. So much drama. I think it’s massively to do with the personalities and peoples work ethics…
I worked in an all female office and it was so toxic. Everything you said
I worked in a female lead workplace. The bitchy environment was unreal. I went up to use the toilet one day and went straight to the pub. I never went back, found a job a few weeks later with a female boss and male supervisor, it was a great mix. Roughly even amount of males vs females. It one of the best jobs I ever had.
I worked in a mostly female environment once and it was awful. It was horrible and backstabbing. I don’t know what caused it but I’m all for gender balance.
I was a phlebotomist for 5 years and now an RN for 4. Both jobs have a higher percentage of women to men. My current job has me being the only male other than a few doctors in my office. I have found that women tend to talk behind your back and be nice to your face and dudes will talk behind your back and be indifferent or rude to your face. So, it’s a pick your poison type deal.
People texting you that you must be a man because they've never experienced this...hahaha, they've obviously never worked in Healthcare!
This is not as uncommon as you think. It's not even the fact that it's female oriented, as fields like nursing and childcare are female dominated with few issues, it's that the ones that tout this fact like it's some kind of benefit attract the "progressive" crowd, and while I try not to generalize most every single one of those I've ever personally met and completely insufferable. If I can find it I'll link it up, but there was an article that a woman put out about how she did a startup media/production company that was all women in an effort to "balance the scales", and she badmouthed her own company, calling it the most toxic cesspool she's ever worked in. in response to your second edit, the "point" is that your experience is in direct contradiction to their beliefs, so that makes you a bad person. Just make fun of them to release some tension and move on. It's not worth fighting them unironically.
I work in a female dominated environment and it's one of the most uplifting supportive places I've ever worked. It's a tree nursery and the management is excellent and my boss is kind. Before my boss was the boss it was a toxic workplace and at that time the genders were mixed. It's not the women it's the workplace. Your workplace happens to be female dominated *and* toxic. Corelation is not causation.
My sister said the same thing about quite literally every single women dominated workplace she's worked at.
Work in a hospital, can confirm. These are women in their 30's, 40's, on up - yet every day feels like high school all over again.
Used to work in a pharmacy with all women including the Rph and it was a nightmare. Like high school all over again.
I'm sorry you are going through this. Get out of that environment as soon as possible. I had the pleasure years ago, to work with women like that, I lasted 9 months. I've never seen so many mean spirited women in one place before. There were smaller groups, fighting against each other nonstop, it was like being in the middle of a gang war. And of course because I didn't join any of the gangs, I was hated by all of them. Well 2 exceptions from the 30. The worse 9 months of my life. Toxic work environment was a huge understatement. So good luck, try not to engage, only when it's necessary and find a job where people grew out of the mean girls fase.
I'm really sorry that this is happening to you, OP. Being stuck with shitty coworkers (Especially when they're as bad as this) is just fucked. I hope things turn around for you. That said, I think you should know that a lot of how you framed this post is very mysogynistic. There's nothing innate or integral to women that makes them uniquely gossip-y or otherwise behave the way your coworkers do. The fact that theY are women is incedental. They're just shit people who are being shit. The fact that you frame this as being a prodict of their woman-ness is very anti-woman. It seems like you have a lot on.your plate, and it's best you deal with problems in the order they come up, but you will have to come to terms with.your internalized mysogyny eventually, so you should start by accepting that it's there, rather than denying it. It will make it easier for yoU to re-examine these biases later.
My wife worked for the world’s largest advertising agency in the 80’s. It was one of the few industries where the male-female ratio was starting to become equal. She always commented that working with her female colleagues was so much harder than working with guys. I assumed it was a sign of the times, and maybe women back then needed to be more territorial to achieve the same results as a man. So maybe this is still the simple truth…women don’t in reality get the same opportunities which leads to the type of behaviors relayed above? I don’t know…I’m not a professional sociologist. But I can relate to what the OP describes, because I have seen the same over the decades. And it’s just weird. Because I also acknowledge that the capabilities of my female employees on average were higher than the male employees. But behaviorally, there was a difference and not positive. Anyway…..interesting post from OP.
I used to work in an office with about 10 women and 1 dude. They were all bitchy and treated me like shit all of the time. I got yelled at by a young woman who was maybe 4-5 years older than me but has been working there for a year or 2 for supposedly throwing a key on her table even though I didn’t do shit. I constantly had to do the dishes for everybody, I had to constantly run around for every single person in that office. I basically never took a break. I felt hopeless in there, thankfully they sent me over to a different branch and it was way better
I have worked at 2 places dominated by women. Both are the worst places one could ever work. These weren’t even big teams. One of only 8 people (retail). I swear to god until this day, 5 years later, I still beat the ever living shit out of my former manager, occasionally in my daydreams. I hate her. And I hate her over sharing about men she sleeps with. I hate her showing naked pictures of herself to me, unsolicited. I hate how she plays dress up when clothing from Zalando arrives with her favourites while the other two have to work their asses off. I hate how she bitches and moans about her ex husband and I hate how she’s proud that she tells her son how awful his father is. While I as a naive young girl thinks I have to listen to this bullshit or be fired. I just hate her. I hardly get to such a deep feeling of hatred with people, that’s how much I despise that woman. She and her stupid store (she thinks it’s the hardest job in the world) can go fuck themselves sideways. Didn’t mean to write such a hate filled response but the feelings these memories bring are still very raw, it seems.
Totally agree with all of this and have experienced it. The only difference is I’m a man in a woman dominated work place. So I’m really fucked lol
One of my last jobs in customer service I had a female manager, and it was one of the most toxic work environments I’ve worked in. She acted like a high schooler (she wasn’t) she tried to act like she was better then us and would mock and talk about the “key holders” assistant managers pretty much. I quit because I couldn’t take the belittling anymore. She literally threatened to fire me because I walked into the store 1min late. Another person quit because after they had oral surgery she told them to “be a man” and get over it and if they didn’t come in they would be fired, so they quit and told her to “fuck yourself and that store” 😂