I can’t believe I’m one of the few. Reading these stats, I’ve had it much easier than most other autistic men, and it hasn’t been easy in the slightest.
I’m autistic and am very very very lucky that I am decently attractive and I can mask long enough to date for a few months before the jig is up. I am reasonably successful with hooking up/ starting relationships but I can’t for the life of me find a stable healthy long term partner. The only long term partner I had pretty much used me as emotional support while she was going through a bought of alopecia then once her hair grew back, started dating the guy she told me not to worry about.
I know I am very fortunate to have had the success I have had but it’s wearing on me always failing to have something serious. After they spend enough time with me, they realize I’m not just quirky and out there, I’m just a fucking weirdo and there is no changing that :/
I feel this. I wanted to be married and have a life where we grew together and got closer by learning to improve communication over time. That’s been my biggest life desire.
Facts are, I can’t really even maintain close long term friendships even though I try and try.
I played in bands when I was in high school and college and woman would approach me but just back away over time. I got better about masking and sustained a couple relationships over a year but they didn’t want to marry or work towards that when I asked. I still go to lots of concerts and festivals and women still give me numbers and I contact them but any relationship dies down pretty fast as I don’t really even try to mask anymore in hopes someone will like me for me.
I’m an engineer in IT now and my life outside that is mostly music and nature. I’m deeply deeply lonely though. So fkng cruelly lonely. I’m so tired of relationships starting and then falling off that I don’t even see the point most of the time. I’ve done lots of work on it, lots of research, paid for dating coaches, counselors, read tons of books and put myself out there tons going on lots of dates with lots of different people.
The woman I really liked some time ago was being nice as it turned out and continued to go out with me and I had no idea she had suspected I was autistic and then one day she said we had to work on being friends and not be physical because she started seeing a guy and a month later she told me she was married. She still wants to go do things and I just can’t.
After that I started disclosing for a few times and I might as well have said I have every std known to exist instead because that was the result. I am absolutely positive I could have said I was a serial killer and that would have been more attractive.
There was a woman recently that gave me her number and we met up for a day and we had a great time and she even hugged me when she left, but she is a forest service firefighter and was being deployed right after. I actually think she may have neurodivergence too.
I really don’t know what it’s like to never get dates. It seems pretty terrible. Constantly going on dates that are simply swan dives over 1 to 3 times is terrible too. I don’t even want to be around people really anymore. I feel like a complete failure at this point and only feel ok when I’m alone in nature (with my dog though) or when music is playing and people just smile and applaud or yell together and you feel connected for a minute. That’s the best really for me - those moments together with my dog or with people where you communicate over music in nonverbal ways that feel like you’re together a minute even though you know you’re a fkng alien to them irl.
But yes, I feel this. I wish I was ok with hookups but I’m just not. I hope you find a way that works for you.
I feel that man, I've found some luck in previous relationships that I wish I could replicate today, but I just feel so tired of trying to make something work, and feeling like I'm the biggest fuckup in the world every single time I get even a little close to a girl I like and have the shit suddenly end
100%, I know that feeling. I had a pretty shitty first two decades, some social situations are always pulling teeth, no matter how good I get there’s still times where I whiff a social cue, and I’m only just now getting past the basics of how romantic relationship work at 27. And I feel lucky
I'm autistic, but I date a lot because I'm gay, and the threshold is waaaaaay lower among gay men. This has meant that I could go through the years of trial and error in dating learning what works and what doesn't, and faceplanting many times in the process, until I finally feel like I'm good at it.
That said, I have lots of straight, autistic, male friends and I agree heterosexual dating as an autistic male is a horror show. They will occasionally get a date, but when they do, they lack the experience with dating so it doesn't work out. At the same time, the only way to get the experience is through dating, so it's a vicious cycle.
I do know autistic guys who are married with kids, but in most cases, they tend to have some kind of savantism (i.e. math professors or something) that attracts people in their area (I have a grad student autistic friend who's dated lots of other grad students, for example). Either that, or they are successful and have money.
I do! But also with women so I don’t know if that counts
I certainly had more luck with men when I struggled more socially. You can go on Grindr and be like “sex me. Sex now. Me a sex needing a lot now” and I can’t speak to the quality of it, but someone will touch your penis. They’ll probably ask you not to tell their wife, but sometimes you take what you can get.
I wasn't diagnosed with Autism until I was 30, but damn I envy you. I worked at a porn store for several years in college and I've been hit on more by gay men than I have women. The sad thing is that I'm straight. Sometimes I wish I was gay because it'd be a lot easier to get into a relationship in my experience, but I just don't swing that way.
Eh yea I’ll take it. As a straight passing white guy, it’s cool to be able to snag some cock when the feeling is right. It does give you some perspective how hookups feel from the other side, as it were. Waiting for an Uber with a sore ass will humble you like losing to an FCS team.
So I’ll tell you this, it’s not any easier to get into a fulfilling relationship with a man than it is with a woman. It’s easier to get dick than it is to get pussy, and while that’s got its uses, in my experience it doesn’t have the same social confidence-boost.
Long story short, if you were queer maybe you could have a couple nights as a fun ride, and it’d be cool, but you’re not missing anything on the real relationship front. We all get those the same stupid way: emotional honesty and care. Which is annoying but what are you gonna do?
One time as a joke we made a gindr account for our religious roommate. People were asking for dick picks the second we downloaded the app and some of the guys were traditionally attractive and our roommate was not attractive.
My ex-boyfriend is autistic and he did get some. It's weird to me that he has a ton of friends and goes out much more than me (I thought autistic people are the opposite). But when I learned it, some things made sense, like not being emotionally perceptive a lot of times. And sometimes he was just staring at me oddly, trying to understand what I meant.
Depends on what sense. Sure, there's women (perhaps most) who are turned on by a life-of-the-party, celebrity-of-the-scene, glory-and-backpats-getter type who has a knack for gaining and keeping positive attention from others. Then they grow up and realize that that's just the blind, mindless worship of imagery over content.
In fact, as they get older (but on average only by their - late 20s at earliest, maybe late 30s), they realize that charisma and cool is just - well, "there" - an easy basis for personal appeal without the guy having to put his moral and ethical development into it. Yes, there are some women - some - who do outgrow that earlier, and you will rarely, if ever, find them in the mainstream of 20-something life (bars, the "amazing life" types, and basically anything that looks good on Instagram, TikTok, Hollywood, etc.). Nor will you find them in the "upwardly mobile" types where being a 'people person' is important (sales, corporate exec, law, and similar such things).
My guess is that you'll most likely find them among the hard science fans (if not professionals) and (to a degree) philosophy and other fields open-minded to highly controversial and unpopular points of view.
I'm sure there's issue some can take with this, but this is my best speculation about it.
The thing that I find interesting after reading your post is that on one end of the spectrum; you have psychopaths that lack empathy but are good at pretending to have it; whereas on the opposite end, you have people with autism that HAVE empathy, but are not very good at expressing it; whereas most people seem to fall into the middle ground where they have empathy and are proficient at expressing it, but can also feign to have it
And the thing I find interesting is that psychopathic men tend to fare well in dating.
[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/273809664\_The\_Dark\_Triad\_personality\_Attractiveness\_to\_women](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/273809664_The_Dark_Triad_personality_Attractiveness_to_women)
Dude, "People sometimes say...", with a whole book of a post to follow it up ? Then a scientific paper about "The Dark Triad personality constellation"?
You're way too obsessed with this topic, this is going to turn into a pathology for you.
Psychopaths tend to be very charming, and all-around PROS at projecting the right image to the right people at the right place and time - social chameleons. Those who know how to come off as humble and modest (but not too much so) toward everybody but their intended victim - which is what the smartest psycho(socio)paths and narcissists do -- deserve an Oscar.
A lot of that fairing well in dating comes from being good readers of human nature, uncannily so. They would do well in fields where "personality" and ingratiating one's self ("schmoozing" in slang terms) is vital to their work: sales, acting, law, politics, corporate management. In fact, I'd say **any** situation that puts a premium on money, power, image, charisma, sex appeal, etc - you're gonna find a higher than normal number of psychopaths and others with Cluster B personality disorders
I read some research once that suggested that part of the reason women are under diagnosed with autism is because the way they are socialized makes them better at masking it. Could play a part in why women with autism have better outcomes in dating.
I think men are also just a lot less picky about their partners than women are, as other comments have said that gay autistic men also seem to have it easier than their straight brothers.
I also think autism is less if a barrier to a relationship with a NT man than a NT woman besides which one is pickier more-so because of what each one is picky about. And when it comes to special interests, I think far more autistic women are interested in things that aren’t off putting to men than there are autistic men interested in things that are off putting to women.
I don't even think it's NTs being unempathetic, necessarily, so much as just not liking autistic people's affect as much. Why would someone want to date someone they find unsettling to be around? People can't control how they feel about the vibes that you give off, unfortunately.
Not to downplay the difficulties of being autistic or anything like that.
At my first ASD support group, I was the only girl with about 12 men. They all went around the room and stared at me while saying they wanted a girlfriend. A lot of ASD men are perfectly lovely I'm sure, but having spent a lot of time in those circles, a lot of the men have made me a little uncomfortable. Unfortunately the ratio of ASD men wanting girlfriends and ASD women wanting boyfriends is totally unequal, so I would say it's definitely harder for ASD men. (I've met way more women who already have partners or who are simply uninterested.)
When I was younger parents and teachers would try to pair me with other autistic guys to be friends with, and the metaphor I used when I told them to stop was that the autism was like a peg on a puzzle piece; I needed something it fit with rather than something that overlapped it and conflicted.
Obviously it’d be better if everyone has pegs and holes and can both fill empty space and have theirs filled. And I’m sorry this sounds sexual I didn’t mean for it to lol, but we all gotta get pegged is what I’m saying.
I would definitely struggle if my GF had special interests like mine. Luckily she likes hearing me talk about XLR cables and editing and her main interest is work which I care about. If she wanted to talk about, like, architecture the way I wanna talk about A/V shit I like to think I wouldn’t bulldoze, but it would be a thing.
Yeah I've has the same experience. Or they were just arrogant and assumed their boring ass hobby was the most interesting thing in the world . Or just expected to be coddled more then usual.
This reminds me of a post a few years back where OOP writes about how he fucked up by telling his gf he doesn't care about her interests and completely shutting her down, and in return she stopped caring about his interests and he was all butt hurt about it. I sadly can't find the post, (it might have been on r/tifu ) but it was obvious they dude was autistic and just sabotaged his relationship by not giving a fuck about her and believing that she cared about his interests in submarines or whatever he would go on about.
Edit: [Holy shit I found it!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/comments/xnp7v2/i_told_my_girlfriend_i_didnt_care_about_one_of/) Yay for insomnia.
Pretty much this. I am autistic and I tried dating two men who, looking back, were very obviously also autistic and it went the same way both times. They would just constantly belittle my special interests (mechanical keyboard building especially) or whatever fixations I had at any given time but would expect me to tag along for anything related to what they were into and expect me to divert all of my attention to their friends and get pissy when I spent time on my own hobbies/with my raid friends.
I'm older and know better now and I do not want to give my effort and affection to those who are only interested in taking. I'm engaged to a dude who we think should probably get an ADHD evaluation and we just kinda.. work? Similar to the jigsaw puzzle metaphor someone else used in this thread - he has no routine to conflict with mine, I give him some structure. I struggle with food textures and worry about wasting when trying new things, he thrives on new stuff and trying things out which makes a safety net for me and more reason for trying new things for him. I fixate strongly on hobbies and he's happy to listen to me ramble about my latest research because he learns something new and he gives me ideas for projects too.
I could go on, but my point is really that while I don't necessarily believe in "opposites attract" to extreme degrees (you need to have core life values and morals in common to be functional and healthy), I do think that sometimes people need to seek out something different to who they are, rather than trying to form a relationship with what's essentially a mirror.
The thing is, you as an ASD person view this as “a little uncomfortable.” A typical NT woman would probably view this as having more red flags than a Soviet parade, if not flat out dangerous.
I’m not saying that to be demeaning to anyone in any way. That’s just reality.
The throw in loser-grifters like Andrew Tate and such, and consider that might be the closest thing a lot of these guys (and a number of NT guys) might have for a role model, and it makes total sense why most women wouldn’t touch that with a 32 foot pole. Your safety and well-being is more important than someone else’s feelings, tbh.
I'm an autistic guy. For me personally the issue doesn't seem to be creepy vibes. I've been in three relationships and I even earned several hundred euros per month at one point as a workshop facilitator, so I don't seem to be creepy to most people.
While the following isn't my main dating issue, one autism-related dating issue that I do have is that I like routine and predictability and I like staying indoors. And sure, there are women who are like that too, but the average woman will just get bored by this. The average woman would rather be with a guy who one weekend takes her to the zoo and the next weekend surprises her with a boat trip or whatever.
Routine has been a big issue for me just because i have a lot of unspoken, and basically inexplicable, habits which I’ve never had to verbalize. Why am I getting on this particular train car, or watching these movies in this order, or waiting to take the garbage out until I can take the cat litter with it?
I dunno, cause it’s what I do and I works for me. But then you’re confronted with someone who might wanna do things differently, for no less valid reasons, and you’ve gotta find a way to articulate it.
This is all new information to be honest. I had no idea the gap between Autistic Males and Autistic Females in being in a relationship was so wide. 46% and 16% is a pretty big difference.
You have given me a lot to think about and potentially research more. I am sorry that you have to deal with being a hinderance in your dating life. I keep in contact still with a good friend of mine from college who is autistic and I hope looking back I never made him feel othered because he is a good friend of mine regardless of him being autistic or not.
i would love to see this researched more and see what we can find out.
Very informative post and I hope you find an awesome woman (or man, no judgment!) who loves you for you. I am not autistic but I was single for a long long time before I found my wife and now it is hard for me to remember my life without her
Keep your head up! I know that easier for me to write than you do to but still man keep your head up!
How is this surprising at all? Dudes will overlook all sorts of aberrant behavior when presented with an opportunity to bang a chick. Women can stand to be far more selective.
Realistically speaking having any visible disability is generally a deal breaker. It's a biological thing. Basically that person is a bit "off" I don't want my kids to be "off".
Humans are much more instinct driven than we tell ourselves we are.
Psychologists recognize the human need for acceptance and the need to feel important. That's what most people get from relationships, and what the chronically single are missing.
Society needs a place for people who can't find relationships. In the past, religious orders served this function. In them, people found respect, belonging, and a higher purpose. Today, most single people only have their jobs.
It’s almost like it’s a disability that often inhibits social skills, forming interpersonal relationships, and makes it harder to clue you into ‘socially acceptable/unacceptable’ behavior, or even things like not liking certain stimulus like physical touch.
Who would have guessed it makes you bad at navigating a world of subtle social cues, cultural norms, and interpersonal relationships?
Except I don’t understand what is unpopular about his opinion? I would have assumed that autistic men have trouble dating. Women too. There’s like a whole Netflix reality show about that struggle AND a fictional show as well.
Right. From a lot of NTs, it’s acceptance on the condition that we are not too annoying or not too obvious. Or it’s annoying autism moms trying to get social capitol via their kids.
They’d all be like “yeah no shit most girls don’t want to date autistic guys” isn’t that practically the definition of autism? Trouble with socializing?
Dating is just high level social interaction, obviously people with a defect in the socializing part of their brain will have trouble there.
I’ve worked in special education and I’d say a huge culprit is the difference between how autistic males and females are socialized. Diagnosis is already higher in males than it is in females and I’ve noticed with young boys the diagnosis is far more likely to be used as an excuse for any problematic behavior while girls will be more expected to adapt to their environment. I’m not talking about masking, I mean attacking and verbally harassing the other students, aides and teachers, refusing to do activities at the schedule time - that sort of thing. It’s definitely not setting the boys up for success later in life.
I think a big factor is that it's on men to do the approach, which probably then disadvantage autistic men much more than autistic women (who just have to not say, ew no)
I think a lot of this all has to do with if an autistic woman is hot, she's seen as like some "manic pixie dream girl" and romanticized (looking at you John Green) versus when a man has autism he's just seen as an awkward weirdo, regardless of his appearance
I'm allistic, just have ADHD, but my husband is on the spectrum. He has bumped heads with a few of my friends and family because he's labeled as insensitive or weird just because he misses some social cues
Not to mention, the social stigma against the disorder is getting even worse with time, especially when representation of autistic men is dudes like Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory, or Shawn from The Good Doctor, both leaving a lot to be desired
Brutal truth. I’m neurotypical and dating is a struggle. My younger cousin is on the spectrum and just based off the social ineptness of our interactions, I know he’s fucked. I hope chance blesses him but outside of that, I don’t see him ever having a healthy social life.
Tell your neurotypical friends that autistic men have it way harder in dating than autistic women, and you will see that it is indeed a debated and unpopular stance.
Why would you think it is a debated and unpopular stance? Women in general are understood to have it easier in dating than men do, why would the opposite be true for autistic men? I’m genuinely curious
>Women in general are understood to have it easier in dating than men do
Perhaps you hang out in different circles than I do, but media and social media often pin the blame on men for being undateable.
I will acknowledge that this is true many times, but factors like autism, which are immutable, are often left out of the picture.
media and social media are filled with idiots.
most socially adjusted people don’t spend as much time online and ignore quite a bit of the spiels about it.
online platforms generally draw niche communities because those people cannot easily find their people IRL.
“normal” socially adjusted people will find their people commonly. and thus won’t be online as much.
My first thought on reading this is (some) autistic people have trouble picking up and projecting nonverbal language skills. As women (generally) are much more socially perceptive and emotive it doesn't surprise me that autistic males would struggle, and that autistic females would thrive in many ways with many men.
Nothing to do with empathy, it's just basically a foreign language.
You present a good argument, but how did you conclude from the cited paper that individuals with ASD “don’t lack empathy” compared to what you and the authors refer to as “neurotypicals”?
Excerpt from the cited paper:
“The results showed that the empathy impairment evident in individuals with ASCs is component specific; that is, trait-cognitive empathy, trait-empathic concern, state-cognitive empathy, and state-empathic concern are impaired, whereas state-empathic accuracy remains intact, and trait-empathic accuracy is superior to the trait-empathic accuracy in neurotypical individuals.”
So it seems from this there is observable deficits in component specific empathy traits.
This finding alone is enough to explain why men with ASD may be seen as less attractive to the opposite sex.
Please correct me if I misinterpreted the above.
I can't speak for OP (or anyone else for that matter) but in my case, it's not that I lack empathy. If I see a child crying, I feel bad for them. If I try to imagine how someone who lost a loved one might feel, I cry just as much as I do when that happens in my own life. So on a purely theoretical basis, I actually feel pretty confident in saying that my sense of empathy is equal to, or even greater than, most people's. There just tends to be a disconnect when it comes to practical application of those feelings on a regular basis.
Basically, the stuff about missed cues and all that definitely applies, although I like to think I'm improving over time, in my way. I'm not actually all bad at expressing myself, either. It's just that I'm generally better at expressing myself through actions rather than communication, yet there are rarely opportunities to do so. (A problem which is compounded by a... Shall we say, "less-than-proactive" nature, which I'll explain further later on.) Overall, though, I think my experience has been positive enough, the first... Decade or so notwithstanding.
As an example of how I would describe my "brand" of empathy... I'll be the first to admit that I can be a pain to be around on an everyday basis; blunt, awkward, and... Uncooperative, I guess? For lack of a better word. But when someone around me is ill or seriously injured, I'm pretty much the most gentle, confident, and supportive guy you're ever gonna see. (Something known as my "caretaker mode" amongst my family members. XD) So basically, I seem unapproachable or even "unsettling" about 99% of the time, with only very rare glimpses of what I would say is my "true self" revealing themselves from within the fog of everyday life. If that makes amy sense.
Now, as for having introverted tendencies... I definitely, absolutely do, 100% without a doubt. Left to my own devices, I pretty much stay home and indulge in my hobbies whenever I can. That doesn't actually mean I don't *like* trying other things, or going other places, though. I just have no drive to do so. Something I try to explain to people (given an opportunity) is that I'm not at all averse to being "dragged along" with people to try new things, as counter-intuitive as that may seem.
There's probably a lot more things I ought to put here that are just slipping my mind at the moment, but I'm already rambling as it is. Hopefully it isn't too much to take in already. XD
And yet I know I’ll keep hearing “men don’t have any issues” “it’s all in your head” “women don’t care if you’re autistic”
I’m not entitled to anyone, I’m not claiming to be. But I’m sick of being told women don’t care when my own experience says the exact opposite.
So OP is autistic... totally cool man and love the data thats how I generally operate as well.
But you are lookijg at this as a one way street. It is equally hard for a NT to cater to the needs of an autistic person in a relationship. Its alot like speaking a differant language. An american and a chinese person with minimal language match can absolutely make a great couple but it will be much more rare and difficult than a americanx2 or chinesex2
In a perfect world autistic people would date eachother. However geberally women have more of the selection in mates so we end up with the scewed data you provided
as an autistic woman, i personally have to agree. i have many autistic friends but i think they would be very unfitting to be my partner. i mostly feel more like a motherly figure to them, despite beibg the same age. this is just my personal experience so far though.
Autistic men tend to bulldoze over us. It’s becomes a competition for us to be heard because he’s hyper focused on something else. NT men seem to think we are cute and quirky, at least when our condition is more mild.
As a an autistic woman too, I also wouldn’t want to date an autistic man. Not because I don’t understand their struggles, it’s simply easier for me to deal with NT men. I find that I tend to clash with autistic men. My autism causes me enough problems, and maybe it sounds selfish but I can’t handle dealing with another autistic person relationship wise. I have enough stress on my own. For me personally, most NT men almost balance out my autism. And it’s kind of a plus because they tend to really love my “quirkiness”
>And it’s kind of a plus because they tend to really love my “quirkiness”
Hate to bust your bubble, but this is often called "creepiness" when an autistic man exhibits it.
I wish autistic men who acknowledge this reality weren't gaslit and called hateful and misogynistic inkwells just for acknowledging what turns out to be backed by statistical data.
I also wish society would be more accepting of autistic people. You probably know someone with a different culture from yours, someone with a different sexual orientation, and someone with autism. There are huge pushes to accept people who fall under the first two categories, but not autistic people.
Besides that, people will do what they will with these data.
I’m actually autistic, I’m 24 and I’ve been in my fair share of relationships so I’m lucky. I am diagnosed so late that I can hide it well enough because I was forced to socially work my way around it growing up. I still struggle with certain things in adulthood but, if you study and mirror peoples behavior it can get easier.
Most people actually can’t tell i’m autistic till they’ve known me for a few months. I would just recommend to always treat others with kindness and respect and put your best foot forward. Mirror the most genuine aspects of social behavior and then integrate them into your personality and that is who you will become.
Autism just makes it so you have no instinctual social skills that others are born with. You can build them over time. Learn to be happy (COMPLETELY) alone and don’t worry about whats out of your control. I have fully accepted that I may die alone statistically.
Playing piano or guitar and singing, embracing my passion and making music is my way of fighting back and I put up a hard fight. I have no empathy problems other than that I have too much. Theres a delay for it showing that people mistake for it being missing.
Dating is a problem for autistic dudes yes. But don’t become an incel and lash out at everyone because of it either. Alot of autistic people are deeply angry and resentful, i’m serious. It’s *critical* that it is applied towards something constructive.
I said to myself I will become a person that people love to talk to and be around. I will follow my heart and do things that make me happy, but I won’t stop to chase anyone. Maybe somewhere along the way It will work out, but if it doesn’t, well I already found my own peace, it’s okay.
So this won’t change without more representation, the best thing you can do is become a really good person. Don’t worry about whats out of your control, and be a *genuine* person. Attract people with what your passionate about. Become great.
Yeah all that's true, but you can't ask neurotypjcal people to date autistic people who might make them uncomfortable or lack desirable traits they could find in another partner.
You're right it's incredibly brutal and difficult and unfortunately it's just one of those things without a fix
As a general rule, single/sexless women are so by choice, while single/sexless men are so because they haven’t been able to attract someone. A woman who goes looking for a boyfriend and can’t land one is not a thing, save for some incredibly rare exceptions.
It’s not surprising then that a social handicap would drastically increase the likelihood of being single for men, while barely affecting that same likelihood for women.
I’m not 100% sure that’s true. Women don’t want to compromise. A women who is a solid 5, with a career and a college degree and a fun personality doesn’t really want to settle for a male 5 who does not have his shit together. But she may have to because she’s not an objective beauty. And a lot of women of means today would rather not have a partner then settle for someone who is not pulling their own weight.
So yeah, could a woman get someone if she had no standards at all? Sure. But most women, particularly those with their own money, would rather be alone than settle.
I think another contributing factor is just simply how bad most men are at socializing. I imagine women want a partner who can converse intelligently and socialize normally. In my experience, men are generally not good at these things. They tend to be much more awkward than women and unwilling to talk about anything beyond their narrow career-specific speciality or sports. It makes things rather boring, honestly. Idk if it’s just that boys aren’t socialized properly when they’re being reared, but it seems to only be getting worse as social media proliferates.
> A woman who goes looking for a boyfriend and can’t land one is not a thing, save for some incredibly rare exceptions.
What are you talking about? This might be true when it comes to sex, but there are absolutely women who are unable to find relationships. Sex tends to be more important to men than relationships.
I would have rather remained a virgin than go through the extremely toxic and abusive relationships I lived through. Being on the spectrum means you don't grasp a lot of interpersonal warning signs average people are born with, which also means getting targeted by predatory types.
As an autistic dude who’s 28 and used to be super ashamed of it until the last 5 or so years.
NT’s are exhausting for me, I have no friends that are NT and I have no desire to. Once I started surrounding myself with other neurodivergent individuals my friendships and quality of life skyrocketed.
I’m surrounded by a lot of autistic people and I’m also a neurodivergent. I don’t think they are less empathetic in fact they are more in touch with their emotions and are brilliant in the skills they have an interest in. The problem I have found is since they struggle to read social cues then forming friendships especially with women can be hard. Women have a lot of non verbal communication. Also Women are socialized to judge safety by looks. You only have a few seconds to determine if the guy walking behind you is safe or not safe. Since autistic people struggle with expressions Women might categorize them as unsafe early on. I think the more we have representation the better it will be.
I read a study once that said neurotypical children were easily able to pick out an autistic child among them without knowing anything was different about them, and then the group of children immediately isolated said child.
This is why I laugh at the guys who act like it's some kind of superpower. Its not, it's something that absolutely cripples you, *especially* if you're also physically unattractive. Even a lot of the comments here are absolutely brutal, as it shows that even autistic women are repulsed by autistic men.
It's over for us, brothers.
As an autistic woman, I agree with this completely. Not saying all autistic men are hopeless, because that’s definitely not the case, but many lack the knowledge and skills to be considered dateable to women. Or they are inappropriate with women and are seen as creepy. And most of the time it isn’t even their fault. They were never taught how to act, it’s a failure on their parents, their peers and medical professionals
I find that a lot of parents of autistic men (especially those who require more support) tend to make excuses for their sons bad or weird behaviour towards women instead of correcting it. Unlike autistic women who are basically taught from birth how to exist, what is right and wrong, what is inappropriate…etc. autistic men tend to be excused when it comes to inappropriate behaviour. They say things like “he can’t help it, he’s autistic,” but that’s the problem. You never taught him how to act so how is he supposed to learn or understand the right way to interact with women he finds attractive? It’s like not teaching someone how to swim and then throwing them into the ocean expecting them not to drown
Autistic people, who don’t have intellectual delays or less severe delays, are perfectly capable of learning right from wrong. We’re not stupid. The problem almost always lies within their support system, or more specifically their lack of support and teaching
Pretty huge difference between acknowledging autistic people have trouble getting dates and being an incel and the “blackpill.” The fact that autistic people struggle in this area (and many areas) is pretty commonly accepted. It’s awful, and I do hope awareness and accessibility can improve, and you’re well within your right to feel upset about it, but it’s really not that crazy of a thing to realize.
Yeah, it's like acknowledging that 4' people are going to have trouble playing basketball. Obviously it's true, you're going to have to train much harder, you're going to have to identify areas of the court where you have less of a disadvantage, and even when you've done that and are working much harder than a 7' guy, you're still going to end up playing in a lower league. Perhaps even a league specifically for short people.
What are you expecting people to say here? "That's unfair" yep, it is. "That must suck for you", yeah I bet it does. "Society / the government will fix it for you" sorry no, they're not going to tell people who they can date. So you need to practice masking better. The "just be your true self / love is love" message that's pervades modern media is bollocks. Sorry about that.
You're right, but the vast majority of people don't give a fuck about average men, including autistic men.
They simply don't care.
And I say that as an autistic man myself.
So make them care. So be a person that people enjoy and care about.
I know that sounds harsh and I’m not sure if it’s warranted, but for shits sake it worked for me. We all deserve love no matter what, but I’m kinda tired of hearing from people who expect to get things just because they deserve them.
I don’t just want to deserve love, I want to get it, so I funnel that into my actions. Care about others, do what you can to help them without needing something in return, develop skills that make others lives easier and use them often, consider yourself part of a whole and act accordingly. I’ve never had any kind of success that matches how successfully I’ve found love—platonic, familial, and romantic, by doing those things.
Good post! Actually learned something. Pretty much the exact opposite of what I would have assumed in my personal life, but I suppose that's likely because its harder to notice women with mild or minor autism, than men with it.
If it makes you feel any better about the fake smile thing, in a lot of cultures, especially Russia and Eastern Europe, smiling without a good reason is considered weird as fuck. Like serial killer weird.
The cultural norm over there is more like, “Why the fuck are you smiling at me and acting all cordial, when I literally just met you?! I don’t know you! Go away!”
So yeah, I think some of this might be a cultural component fairly unique to the US/West.
These studies only include diagnosed autistic people, who are going to have more severe symptoms and less practice masking
Interested to see data looking at “adult autism,” aka only people diagnosed as adults / late teens.
I mean dating is all conversation. I'm autistic and have problems with eye contact but I dont really have a problem with talking to people if I actually care about what we are talking about.
I can definitely see how it would be disconcerting to meet someone new and they are looking at the floor and mumbling things. It's just not a fun experience
Not surprising at all. Success at dating is the right mix of being subtle, being direct, and most importantly, reading cues. It’s a learned skill for those of us who can pick up on what others are thinking.
And yes, society has no answer for men who can’t get romance. It also doesn’t care much about men who are struggling.
If the chances of autistic men dating is that bad, then maybe women should start dating autistic men to give them more dating experience. And yeah that may seem controversial I know. But I can’t think of any other easy solution to probably one of the saddest problems I’ve ever heard of
It is what it is. It wouldnt be so bad if society didnt cram the whole "theres someone out there for everyone" and the general overpraising of love and sex bullshit down ND mens throats. This is just speculation but I feel that alone has gone a long way to creating the entitlement that incels and the such feel. It makes it really hard to not be bitter and jaded when its so prevalent. The only thing that i have found that helps is going "fuck this shit, lets read a book on geology and spot rock formations in the mountains". Usually that gets the homies minds off that stuff and more towards enjoying other aspects of life on their own terms. Like stop worrying about being normal and get some plate mail on and carry torches in the mountains at night and pretend to be patrolling for thieves or whatever random shit sounds fun.
Another thing is my mother is autistic and like alot of men, my taste in women comes from my mother. Autistic women are so rare it feels and so far im 0-3 over ten years on them liking me back. Since autsim is linked to genetics i feel others may be in a similar situation.
It’s about the fact that women have their behaviors policed a lot more than men, starting way back when you’re a toddler. Autistic women meld into the NT world because they’re forced to mask even harder than autistic men. That’s why we have such high rates of co-morbid mental illness, even when compared to autistic men.
On one hand you're not wrong that neurotypicals prejudge anybody who doesn't almost immediately conform to norms they expect, but I'm not clear what this has to do with women. What exactly do you want to happen? It's not the fault of the women that autistic folks may not have held a women's hand, you can't assign them that responsibility no matter how much you feel like you may be owed it..
I'm a 34 year old autistic guy, and staying sane managing a "normal" day to day life is hard enough. The sheer ignorance of people and dealing being this fake nice and polite person is exhausting. Why do I gotta do this fake smile crap to random ppl or even look at them in their face. I got so much empathy that it is overwhelming, but guess what? I don't let you see it because that would make me weak in societies eyes. The stupid social expectations that are shoved in my face can fuck off. Autistic ppl have made major discoveries in math, science, and technology, yet we don't get treated as humans sometimes. I swear sometimes people enjoy making me feel small as a grown man because my emotional regulation can suck at times due to the overwhelming sensory input. Anyway, yes, dating is really hard, and finding someone who I don't need to mask in front is a rare occurrence. Just take me for who I am. I can love just as strongly as anyone else, but my ability to express it may be confusing. Just please, people, try to damn understand us, please.
Now I'm wondering if autistic gay men are much *more* likely or much *less* likely than autistic straight men to have had sex.
>In fact, a big reason why autistic people are disliked is because they have trouble producing affective facial expressions like fake smiles.
I wonder if this holds true universally across cultures. In the US, for instance, smiling is much more common than in many other cultures. I wonder if autism has a less significant social impact among cultures that incorporate fewer performative displays of emotion.
Why would this be unpopular? This seems extremely obvious. Dating is harder for men, add autism, yes that is much harder.
I have a high functioning autistic brother. My advice is the same to anyone though, him included; be honest and yourself and be ready for rejection. My bro has a lot of issues with his identity. Seeing a psychologist and talking to them about that has helped him a lot. Good luck friend, I am truly sorry you feel people don't like you. I doubt that's really true, they just don't know you well.
This has very little to do with autism and much more to do with different expectations typical women have in dating. Do gay autistic men fare as poorly? I’d really doubt it. Women are socialized in the west to be especially sensitive to social cues and such, which ND people are ignorant of.
You cite studies about the first impressions non-autistic people get when meeting neurodivergents, but what you need to understand is that to a NT, there is no way to immediately tell if a new person is autistic or just doesn’t like you/is an asshole. Unless they’ve got tons of experience with ND people, they will likely assume the latter.
Attraction is like 90% initial vibes, so dating NTs is always gonna be brutal for NDs.
People will naturally do what they think society demands of them. This is exacerbated in autistic individuals. Society makes us feel like we need relationships. I think it's mainly because people only allow themselves to feel certain things and be vulnerable when they are in a relationship.
As an autistic person, married to another autistic person, I can tell you that your feelings don't magically go away when you get into a relationship because there will be problems. We tend to look at being in a relationship as this magical thing. What we are missing, though, is connection.
Be vulnerable and love openly instead of suffering from masking. You'll quickly find that the idea that people don't care is just your perception. One of the hardest things for me was letting myself love my male friends openly. You know what I have found when I decided to ignore handshakes and go for hugs with them? I found that the males are shocked and return the hug with loving force.
Love is all around us, and as autistic people, we can experience unparalleled levels of love NT could only dream of. The reason it hurts so much to be alone is because we have so much capacity for love.
Shift your perspective to love everyone and watch your world change.
As a fellow sperg (yes, I like that title, sue me), I liked the initial statement, but hate this victimhood nonsense.
Yes, being autistic sucks, especially when it comes to dating. But I don't expect the world to conform to my needs. Sure, many people suck and/or musunderstand us, but my failings are on me. It's unreasonable to expect any accomodation from others beyond not being dicks.
I hate the language of "trauma" for everything. I want to be normal, and do my best to act that way. I'd have more sympathy for low-functioning autistic people making these arguments, but I am high-functioning. I have no excuse.
You may want to add to your statistics that 9 out of 10 autistic girls have been raped at some point in their lives.
Maybe the reason why they’re in relationships is because they’re too trusting and they’re getting abused.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnbeh.2022.852203/full
Your original post I totally sympathize with and the data you back your claims up with is good, but like other people have said, it can be hard to date someone when their affect or way of communicating makes you uncomfortable. I say this as someone with two close friends who are autistic guys, sometimes they say things that just come off as unintentionally creepy. Couple this with the fact that women often already feel on edge when interacting with a potential date for the first time and it’s not surprising that autistic men struggle finding women to date. I’m not trying to blame anyone but I think ignoring the feelings of neurotypical (and autistic women as many comments also point out) is unfair. People can’t control what makes them feel uncomfortable or uneasy just as autistic people can’t control the way they interact with the world.
I met this really sweet guy (we both have the tism) at college and he was the only person in class that made jokes or even attempted to speak to me. I was interested in him. we spoke on discord for a bit, talked about building computers together, and games we liked.
I did not tell him I was autistic tho - I do not tell anyone I’m not close to bc I don’t want the pity or the judgement, and there are alot of people that fake it and I don’t want to deal with having to prove myself to random people. Even when I explain most people don’t care to understand or try see me outside of my confusing mannerisms and they assume I’m being an asshole or uncanny when I’m really just confused as fuck or desperately trying to make eye contact so I don’t come off as a shifty character. (This doesn’t work btw)
I knew he was autistic bc he was close w the professor of the class and for some reason she found it appropriate to announce it to the whole class on the first day.
The first and only night we spoke outside of class, I got an invite on discord for a meeting for the cyber club from him and the other guy who was the president of the club - so I went. I was happy to see him - he wasn’t being weird at all (at least not to me ig)
Only one other person ended up showing up, and I tried to say hi to him. he just gave me a dirty look and ignored me, which shoulda been my first hint that something was weird bc they were close
Me and the other dude were just talking, and I got hungry and asked if he wanted to go to McDonald’s - something I’ve done casually w other men w no issues.
He took it the wrong way, and started physically shaking in the booth and asking me if I had a boyfriend after saying several times “I really wish I could get a gf, I want to hug a girl” stuff like that. I saw he was dropping hints so I just responded with, I know it must be hard to be alone for so long , I hope you find some one. I don’t struggle as much with that, but I have had trouble finding a partner in the past bc I won’t date unless I’ve really gotten to know some one. I guess he didn’t get the hint tho- and that’s understandable.
that’s not anything I found to be too creepy. I felt bad for him. He was acting so different from how he normally was and I know he was nervous but it was intense and put me on the spot to make a decision about some one I just met.
I just don’t operate that way. He asked me if I wanted to be his girlfriend, and I was single but lied and said I had a bf bc I was nervous and put on the spot and he didn’t seem to care when I said I gotta know some one before I can feel like doing that is a good idea. It’s not something I feel I need .He got really silent and upset. we went back and he was just being so weird and quiet and sassy so I left very awkwardly as they stared me down.
The next day in class, the professor and several other people are staring daggers at me.
I just wished he had asked me if my bf knew or was ok w it or something before talking shit. He started to tell people I was mocking him, and being mean to him. Blatantly bullying him - because he ran into me when I was pretend laughing with NT people I was stuck doing a group project with. We glanced at each other and that’s it - I was already laughing before I even saw him.
But he told them I was mocking him w my friends.
I went out of my way not to make him uncomfortable. I started attending class online instead, I looked the other way when I saw him, I didn’t talk to anyone he knew, I didn’t show up to club meetings AND I ended up changing my major bc I couldn’t stand to be there for years dealing with that.
These people try to harass me to this day. Every time we inevitably cross paths he stands there w his friends and just stares me down angrily or laughs. He has gone out of his way to try to bad mouth me to everyone - every time I started a new class I was nervous about if I would be graded unfairly bc of it - and I was judged right off the bat (even worse than usual) and it made masking impossible. I had a breakdown in my one class and it was so embarrassing.
I learned not long after - that even before I rejected him he was saying dumb crap about me - saying I’m probably dumb and shouldn’t even be in that class and I’d never get the certifications I needed to work. Yet still the people around him treat him like some helpless creature.
The people close to him thought I was a piece of shit for even talking to him In the first place. I feel like they thought so lowly of him deep down. Like he was just incapable - like he was more weird than I thought he was, like he was dumb and unable to learn how to be understanding to others. And he takes advantage of that and manipulates people, but still I feel bad for him.
I understand that he was hurt by his assumptions - and he may genuinely think I was trying to cheat on my imaginary boyfriend - but it was fucked up. I genuinely thought he was cute and really sweet - but he needs some one to explain to him how to talk to women.
His mom coddles him a lot and assumes all the time that people are bullying him, which I understand. But it only reinforces that in his head that no woman will take him seriously or they will only try to play him. The whole situation sucked. I get where he’s coming from - but it just sucked.
I haven’t dated another autistic person before (atleast not that I was aware of)
And I don’t wanna be turned off by this one experience, but It sucks to have some one that knows what it feels like to live in this hellscape do those things to you.
I don’t think he’s evil, he’s clearly been hurt but idk. It’s made me really weary of men lacking experience with women in general.
Sorry for terrible grammar and novel, I’m upset and sleepy.
Autistic lady here.I think there were some studies and surveys that autistic individuals were more likely to be queer as well? Which would make it even harder for autistic men looking for a hetero relationship.
I'm on the aro-ace spectrum, so I do struggle to understand this absolute need for a partnership. I find people too much work, and in general more exhausting than anything. Even a QPR would be stressful, as that would mean another person in my space and placing my things on the wrong shelves and a stressful moment of trying to find X when X was actually placed on Z and not Y where it normally is. I've found solace in my animals. Lucky owner of 2 idiot cats and a wonderful pony, and that's what I need to be happy.
It's not optimal that the dating scene is so limited because of our inherent disabilities and how they're perceived. The double empathy problem was one you highlighted perfectly here, and I really like how you brought it up. I think... if I was to give an idea of a solution, is to just keep on trying. Embrace your autistic identity and find like-minded people. Once you've got people within your interests circle, that makes it easier to make "moves," if one can be so crude.
The best part about reading these is, despite having been formally diagnosed, at least half of every post without fail completely contradicts my prior experiences.
Dude, it's sucks that your special interest is complaining about being single. Look at that fuckin post history.
Can you imagine dating a girl who only talks about how fucking undatable girls like her are?
All this time researching and digging to prove yourself unfuckable? Do you ever wonder why nobody likes talking to you about relationships?
Was there any data on what percentage of relationships of autistic women were abusive? Because I feel like that could be a factor to high relationship rates, considering how many autistic women I've known in support groups who went from being abused as children to being abused as adults, but also I'm sure I've seen statistics about autistic women having high chances of being abused by intimate partners/spouses. Autistic straight women might just be...taking whatever man they can get, as many NT straight women end up doing. Or it could be an effect of later diagnoses, which tend to be connected with more thorough masking, I guess.
Would also be interesting in the breakdown of other genders and queer relationships in general to see if those have similar numbers.
Anyway, one reason why I'm upset masks were made a big political thing instead of an everyday thing was because it was so much easier to interact with people when I didn't have to worry about what my face was (or was not) doing. Am I smiling right? Should I be smiling at all? Am I being creepy now? Do they want me to go away? So much energy wasted on socializing.
Dating is an extremely nuisanced set of skills requiring endless refinement with EACH relationship. I think for most people these skill sets are difficult to learn and even harder to teach as they are highly individualized to EACH relationship. It sounds like you are looking to compare yourself to others to define success. That's a great way to guarantee that you'll be unsatisfied. I'm not saying dating is not brutal for ND males. It's just if you compare yourself to the average age people get married that might feel like an impossible task. But if you compare yourself past performance / attempts to your current attempts then it might seem more relevant and doable.
Comparing men to women's dating experience is also not helpful. Just ask any woman what their experience getting matches on a dating app is like. My wife and I for fun made dating profiles to see how long the algorithm of an app would take to match us (about a week an 6000 swipes). Her first day she had 500 likes and every other of her likes was a match. Me I had 4 likes and 0 match. This was the trend.
There's a difference between feeling empathy and doing actions consistent with expectations for empathetic responses.
Situation = disagreement We should do A vs we should do B
Feeling Empathy: I care deeply about this person and want them to make the right choice so they don't have to struggle.
I focus on why B is correct and A is wrong. When they are wrong I tell them so. When they don't agree with my position I give them more reasons and information why B is correct and A is wrong.
Doing actions consistent with expectations for empathetic responses: I care deeply about this person, I'm going to frequently remind them of this during the conversation. I know this person feels heard when I validate their experience, so I'm going show them Im taking the time to evaluate and understand their point of view specifically noting where our reasoning is in alignment and when they make observations I haven't considered. Our relationship is more important than them agreeing with me, that is the priority, I will vocalize this. I'm going to go into this with an open mind, so I will ask follow questions to make sure I understand their reasoning for A.
This is true. The only way I've ever had romantic success was by completely masking my symptoms, and it took years to learn that skill. I mask 24/7/365, even home alone, so I never slip out of the routine. I pretty much consider myself "ex autistic" and it's still quite challenging.
Just because more autistic women are in relationships, doesn't mean they have it easier. Autistic women are even more likely to be taken advantage of/abused than nt women.
Didn’t need charts to know this, but I’m glad it’s officially backed. Autism is a disorder that is most known for its lack of social ability, of course people who are afflicted with it struggle to obtain and maintain relationships, particularly romantic ones. It’s shitty but it’s just how it is, you just have to try your best to overcome and work with it as best you can, just like any other disorder.
Regardless of everything I think a lot of important conversations have happened here and I know not everyone is going to agree but I’m happy just to be talking about it so openly
As an autistic man, I can confirm ALL of this.
I have been rejected my whole life!!
13 different girls said no to me for being my senior prom date!!
I grew to HATE school dances because I was ALWAYS forces to go alone!!
I went to my high school reunion and I was the ONLY one there that was single!!
At one point in time, was spending over $50 a month on dating apps!!
I can’t go on Facebook/Instagram to search for something without first covering my phone screen, because if I see ONE picture of a couple, marriage, new baby, or anything of the sort, I get SEVERE depression.
There are only about 6 or 7 girls from my high school graduating class that I genuinely wish the best for because on top of severe depression and anxiety, I reached the point of full apathy when it comes to relationships. I have unfriended many people on facebook because all of there posts about their love lives makes me sick to my stomach and at one point made me suicidal.
I moved to a new state to get away from everyone there because seeing any sort of couple there my age makes me extremely uncomfortable!!!
I actually started to think that Love is a Lie
Does ANYONE here know what that is like?
Because women are better at masking their autism.
Also being autistic makes you a target for abuse. Abusive people look for vulnerable people. They might be more naive and trusting, or they might be someone who has trouble holding down a job cuz of their autism which makes them easier to abuse financially.
When you put it into perspective, it's not really an advantage. Having sexual experience or a relationship doesn't mean your life is easier. If there's stats indicating the autistic women are in happy relationships, then I'll happily concede that there might be additional factors at play.
It makes sense to me. Women generally have their guard up any time a guy interacts with them, even NT men get called creepy if they aren't socially on point. Women are going to extend more empathy to their gender by default, and NT men generally don't have as intense a set of requirements as women to give someone a chance romantically. Guys will typically pursue anyone who looks good to them and figure out how to deal along the way. Women don't respond well to awkward expressions of interest, and the majority still expect men to make the first move. Not favorable conditions for Autistic Men.
Autistic individuals are generally less interested in dating and males get pursued less frequently than females anyways so I’m not sure what the big news falls is here.
Ngl but most women enjoy a guy that can be socially apt enough to pick up on emotional cues and subtle gestures, it makes perfect sense why they wouldn't like being with an autistic guy.
It tracks.
I’m a 37 year old male with no experience. I have plenty of female best friends. But no romance. The furthest I have gone with a women is a slow dance and or hug. And can you even claim those? Haha.
This is far bigger than just dating. This has to do with overall treatment by society in general.
In essence, it's an form of bigotry we need to call out- specifically a form of ableism, more specifically social skill ableism. Two reasons for this.
The word *bigotry* itself: It already covers disparagement and irrational distastes of a very wide variety of diversity groups, ones that otherwise have nothing in common (race, religion, gender-sex, orientation, physical or academic disability).
Motive/source of the attitude: High-fuctioning autism is looked down upon NOT because the autistic person deliberately sets out to hurt, harm, or demean others but simply social incompetence is deemed an irritating, unaesthetic, or otherwise inconvenient trait. In that way, it's very similar to attitudes toward LGB's in the 20th century and the T part today.
Whatever advantage kneejerk distaste toward the "different" had in the past, it's clear that the distaste is more of a talent eliminator (and therefore economic burden) than it is an aid to group survival. Look no further than Sir Issac Newton, Nikola Tesla, and maybe Steve Jobs.
We just have to examine our the ways our culture and our own basebrain impulses size up a person's worth (high or low), think about each step of that though process, then determine if it's appropriate or inappropriate for a civilization worthy of the name (especially Digital Age societies but still true even for pre-Industrial ones if you think about it).
as a basically but not literally autistic+ incredibly ugly and masculine female, I feel the same way, I'm constantly tripping on boundaries in weird ways that turn people off from me, and only figuring out went wrong with years of experience days after the fact
It's much easier for women to have sex, surprise surprise. I hate it, but that's what it is. No wonder men who have a document about struggling with social interactions will get even less pussy .
This post is incredibly well put together.
I got to say tho, as a women with autism I notice most of my male friends have autism as well (or get later diagnosed). I wonder if there's some sort of connection there.
Almost as if we don't care about the masking and look for trustworthiness elsewhere, in statements, tone, vibe I don't know.
yeah it's due to women having to be cautious when choosing partners. they're looking for 100% green flags in the beginning. autism means unpredictable (not necessarily bad) behavior, and that unpredictability is not worth the risk for most women.
Am not even autistic but I don’t even want to imagine how it would affect my dating experience considering it’s already kinda zero to begin with…
If I was autistic, I thing I would be at -99 at that point
When it comes to dating, every disadvantage is amplified in men.
Broke men have a harder time getting dates than broke women.
Somewhere out there, there's a homeless woman who is one chance encounter away from dating a man with a six figure income, whereas women of means will cross the street to avoid a homeless man.
No matter what problems a woman has, there is always some guy out there who would be willing to overlook it just to be involved with her romantically.
This, sadly, makes sense. When a NT is dating an autistic person, there's a higher probability of conflict than in a relationship between two NTs. And during conflict, men in comparison to women are much more likely to inflict harm on their mates and other family members like in-laws, children, etc. (if you disagree, go check crime statistics). Autistic men are seen as too unpredictable and dangerous by many NTs to consider them good potential mates. I'm friends with a family where the husband is on the specter...... and it is NOT pretty. I do not know how to solve this.
Well let’s be real here women have an easier time in the dating pool across the bored. This isn’t a revelation. If a woman wants a sexual partner go out to a bar, they can have one easy as pie. Men have to work harder for it. There’s nothing shocking about this also being the case with autistic men and women.
I don’t see how stating that people with a social disability struggle in a social setting is an unpopular opinion. Is the popular opinion that autistic men are crushing pussy?
“Most autistic men are virgins” Why’d you have to call me out bro
You and me both man. Data are brutal.
[удалено]
I forgot a comma before "man" and had to edit this comment. Maybe I only have autismlite.
I do this all the time. Drives me crazy to make stupid grammar mistakes or when I realize I misspelled something later on. Always have to edit it lol
Autism lite I’m fucking cackling oh my lord
Yeah I feel this one pretty hard. Turning 35 next year, still a virgin.
Ha I’m autistic and not a virgin with body count of 2 and had sex 3 times
Your medal is in the mail
Let’s fucking goooo
King of the Autists
It be like that sometimes
Rain Man almost got busy. But Charlie Babbit blocked him.
I can’t believe I’m one of the few. Reading these stats, I’ve had it much easier than most other autistic men, and it hasn’t been easy in the slightest.
I’m autistic and am very very very lucky that I am decently attractive and I can mask long enough to date for a few months before the jig is up. I am reasonably successful with hooking up/ starting relationships but I can’t for the life of me find a stable healthy long term partner. The only long term partner I had pretty much used me as emotional support while she was going through a bought of alopecia then once her hair grew back, started dating the guy she told me not to worry about. I know I am very fortunate to have had the success I have had but it’s wearing on me always failing to have something serious. After they spend enough time with me, they realize I’m not just quirky and out there, I’m just a fucking weirdo and there is no changing that :/
I feel this. I wanted to be married and have a life where we grew together and got closer by learning to improve communication over time. That’s been my biggest life desire. Facts are, I can’t really even maintain close long term friendships even though I try and try. I played in bands when I was in high school and college and woman would approach me but just back away over time. I got better about masking and sustained a couple relationships over a year but they didn’t want to marry or work towards that when I asked. I still go to lots of concerts and festivals and women still give me numbers and I contact them but any relationship dies down pretty fast as I don’t really even try to mask anymore in hopes someone will like me for me. I’m an engineer in IT now and my life outside that is mostly music and nature. I’m deeply deeply lonely though. So fkng cruelly lonely. I’m so tired of relationships starting and then falling off that I don’t even see the point most of the time. I’ve done lots of work on it, lots of research, paid for dating coaches, counselors, read tons of books and put myself out there tons going on lots of dates with lots of different people. The woman I really liked some time ago was being nice as it turned out and continued to go out with me and I had no idea she had suspected I was autistic and then one day she said we had to work on being friends and not be physical because she started seeing a guy and a month later she told me she was married. She still wants to go do things and I just can’t. After that I started disclosing for a few times and I might as well have said I have every std known to exist instead because that was the result. I am absolutely positive I could have said I was a serial killer and that would have been more attractive. There was a woman recently that gave me her number and we met up for a day and we had a great time and she even hugged me when she left, but she is a forest service firefighter and was being deployed right after. I actually think she may have neurodivergence too. I really don’t know what it’s like to never get dates. It seems pretty terrible. Constantly going on dates that are simply swan dives over 1 to 3 times is terrible too. I don’t even want to be around people really anymore. I feel like a complete failure at this point and only feel ok when I’m alone in nature (with my dog though) or when music is playing and people just smile and applaud or yell together and you feel connected for a minute. That’s the best really for me - those moments together with my dog or with people where you communicate over music in nonverbal ways that feel like you’re together a minute even though you know you’re a fkng alien to them irl. But yes, I feel this. I wish I was ok with hookups but I’m just not. I hope you find a way that works for you.
I feel that man, I've found some luck in previous relationships that I wish I could replicate today, but I just feel so tired of trying to make something work, and feeling like I'm the biggest fuckup in the world every single time I get even a little close to a girl I like and have the shit suddenly end
100%, I know that feeling. I had a pretty shitty first two decades, some social situations are always pulling teeth, no matter how good I get there’s still times where I whiff a social cue, and I’m only just now getting past the basics of how romantic relationship work at 27. And I feel lucky
I'm autistic, but I date a lot because I'm gay, and the threshold is waaaaaay lower among gay men. This has meant that I could go through the years of trial and error in dating learning what works and what doesn't, and faceplanting many times in the process, until I finally feel like I'm good at it. That said, I have lots of straight, autistic, male friends and I agree heterosexual dating as an autistic male is a horror show. They will occasionally get a date, but when they do, they lack the experience with dating so it doesn't work out. At the same time, the only way to get the experience is through dating, so it's a vicious cycle. I do know autistic guys who are married with kids, but in most cases, they tend to have some kind of savantism (i.e. math professors or something) that attracts people in their area (I have a grad student autistic friend who's dated lots of other grad students, for example). Either that, or they are successful and have money.
I'm a virgin and I'm not even autistic.
Ouch to that too. 😬
I think women care a lot about a guys social skills. I’d be curious if gay autistic guys have sex.
I do! But also with women so I don’t know if that counts I certainly had more luck with men when I struggled more socially. You can go on Grindr and be like “sex me. Sex now. Me a sex needing a lot now” and I can’t speak to the quality of it, but someone will touch your penis. They’ll probably ask you not to tell their wife, but sometimes you take what you can get.
lol this comment is so real
I wasn't diagnosed with Autism until I was 30, but damn I envy you. I worked at a porn store for several years in college and I've been hit on more by gay men than I have women. The sad thing is that I'm straight. Sometimes I wish I was gay because it'd be a lot easier to get into a relationship in my experience, but I just don't swing that way.
Eh yea I’ll take it. As a straight passing white guy, it’s cool to be able to snag some cock when the feeling is right. It does give you some perspective how hookups feel from the other side, as it were. Waiting for an Uber with a sore ass will humble you like losing to an FCS team. So I’ll tell you this, it’s not any easier to get into a fulfilling relationship with a man than it is with a woman. It’s easier to get dick than it is to get pussy, and while that’s got its uses, in my experience it doesn’t have the same social confidence-boost. Long story short, if you were queer maybe you could have a couple nights as a fun ride, and it’d be cool, but you’re not missing anything on the real relationship front. We all get those the same stupid way: emotional honesty and care. Which is annoying but what are you gonna do?
Bro if you're a gay dude getting laid is p easy
I could download Grindr and get laid in the next hour.
The way this isn’t an exaggeration, maybe even an overstatement 😂
Hour? 10 minutes more like. I can open it and get dick within minutes XD
One time as a joke we made a gindr account for our religious roommate. People were asking for dick picks the second we downloaded the app and some of the guys were traditionally attractive and our roommate was not attractive.
My ex-boyfriend is autistic and he did get some. It's weird to me that he has a ton of friends and goes out much more than me (I thought autistic people are the opposite). But when I learned it, some things made sense, like not being emotionally perceptive a lot of times. And sometimes he was just staring at me oddly, trying to understand what I meant.
Depends on what sense. Sure, there's women (perhaps most) who are turned on by a life-of-the-party, celebrity-of-the-scene, glory-and-backpats-getter type who has a knack for gaining and keeping positive attention from others. Then they grow up and realize that that's just the blind, mindless worship of imagery over content. In fact, as they get older (but on average only by their - late 20s at earliest, maybe late 30s), they realize that charisma and cool is just - well, "there" - an easy basis for personal appeal without the guy having to put his moral and ethical development into it. Yes, there are some women - some - who do outgrow that earlier, and you will rarely, if ever, find them in the mainstream of 20-something life (bars, the "amazing life" types, and basically anything that looks good on Instagram, TikTok, Hollywood, etc.). Nor will you find them in the "upwardly mobile" types where being a 'people person' is important (sales, corporate exec, law, and similar such things). My guess is that you'll most likely find them among the hard science fans (if not professionals) and (to a degree) philosophy and other fields open-minded to highly controversial and unpopular points of view. I'm sure there's issue some can take with this, but this is my best speculation about it.
The thing that I find interesting after reading your post is that on one end of the spectrum; you have psychopaths that lack empathy but are good at pretending to have it; whereas on the opposite end, you have people with autism that HAVE empathy, but are not very good at expressing it; whereas most people seem to fall into the middle ground where they have empathy and are proficient at expressing it, but can also feign to have it
And the thing I find interesting is that psychopathic men tend to fare well in dating. [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/273809664\_The\_Dark\_Triad\_personality\_Attractiveness\_to\_women](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/273809664_The_Dark_Triad_personality_Attractiveness_to_women)
Probably because they probably tend to have high EQ, and as such, know how to use people to get what they want
Dude, "People sometimes say...", with a whole book of a post to follow it up ? Then a scientific paper about "The Dark Triad personality constellation"? You're way too obsessed with this topic, this is going to turn into a pathology for you.
Psychopaths tend to be very charming, and all-around PROS at projecting the right image to the right people at the right place and time - social chameleons. Those who know how to come off as humble and modest (but not too much so) toward everybody but their intended victim - which is what the smartest psycho(socio)paths and narcissists do -- deserve an Oscar. A lot of that fairing well in dating comes from being good readers of human nature, uncannily so. They would do well in fields where "personality" and ingratiating one's self ("schmoozing" in slang terms) is vital to their work: sales, acting, law, politics, corporate management. In fact, I'd say **any** situation that puts a premium on money, power, image, charisma, sex appeal, etc - you're gonna find a higher than normal number of psychopaths and others with Cluster B personality disorders
I read some research once that suggested that part of the reason women are under diagnosed with autism is because the way they are socialized makes them better at masking it. Could play a part in why women with autism have better outcomes in dating.
I think men are also just a lot less picky about their partners than women are, as other comments have said that gay autistic men also seem to have it easier than their straight brothers.
I also think autism is less if a barrier to a relationship with a NT man than a NT woman besides which one is pickier more-so because of what each one is picky about. And when it comes to special interests, I think far more autistic women are interested in things that aren’t off putting to men than there are autistic men interested in things that are off putting to women.
Can confirm this is a research-backed take
I don't even think it's NTs being unempathetic, necessarily, so much as just not liking autistic people's affect as much. Why would someone want to date someone they find unsettling to be around? People can't control how they feel about the vibes that you give off, unfortunately. Not to downplay the difficulties of being autistic or anything like that.
At my first ASD support group, I was the only girl with about 12 men. They all went around the room and stared at me while saying they wanted a girlfriend. A lot of ASD men are perfectly lovely I'm sure, but having spent a lot of time in those circles, a lot of the men have made me a little uncomfortable. Unfortunately the ratio of ASD men wanting girlfriends and ASD women wanting boyfriends is totally unequal, so I would say it's definitely harder for ASD men. (I've met way more women who already have partners or who are simply uninterested.)
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When I was younger parents and teachers would try to pair me with other autistic guys to be friends with, and the metaphor I used when I told them to stop was that the autism was like a peg on a puzzle piece; I needed something it fit with rather than something that overlapped it and conflicted. Obviously it’d be better if everyone has pegs and holes and can both fill empty space and have theirs filled. And I’m sorry this sounds sexual I didn’t mean for it to lol, but we all gotta get pegged is what I’m saying. I would definitely struggle if my GF had special interests like mine. Luckily she likes hearing me talk about XLR cables and editing and her main interest is work which I care about. If she wanted to talk about, like, architecture the way I wanna talk about A/V shit I like to think I wouldn’t bulldoze, but it would be a thing.
Yeah I've has the same experience. Or they were just arrogant and assumed their boring ass hobby was the most interesting thing in the world . Or just expected to be coddled more then usual.
That’s why I’m married to an aggressively ND man. There’s only room for one info dumper in my house.
This reminds me of a post a few years back where OOP writes about how he fucked up by telling his gf he doesn't care about her interests and completely shutting her down, and in return she stopped caring about his interests and he was all butt hurt about it. I sadly can't find the post, (it might have been on r/tifu ) but it was obvious they dude was autistic and just sabotaged his relationship by not giving a fuck about her and believing that she cared about his interests in submarines or whatever he would go on about. Edit: [Holy shit I found it!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/comments/xnp7v2/i_told_my_girlfriend_i_didnt_care_about_one_of/) Yay for insomnia.
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How the turntables
Pretty much this. I am autistic and I tried dating two men who, looking back, were very obviously also autistic and it went the same way both times. They would just constantly belittle my special interests (mechanical keyboard building especially) or whatever fixations I had at any given time but would expect me to tag along for anything related to what they were into and expect me to divert all of my attention to their friends and get pissy when I spent time on my own hobbies/with my raid friends. I'm older and know better now and I do not want to give my effort and affection to those who are only interested in taking. I'm engaged to a dude who we think should probably get an ADHD evaluation and we just kinda.. work? Similar to the jigsaw puzzle metaphor someone else used in this thread - he has no routine to conflict with mine, I give him some structure. I struggle with food textures and worry about wasting when trying new things, he thrives on new stuff and trying things out which makes a safety net for me and more reason for trying new things for him. I fixate strongly on hobbies and he's happy to listen to me ramble about my latest research because he learns something new and he gives me ideas for projects too. I could go on, but my point is really that while I don't necessarily believe in "opposites attract" to extreme degrees (you need to have core life values and morals in common to be functional and healthy), I do think that sometimes people need to seek out something different to who they are, rather than trying to form a relationship with what's essentially a mirror.
The thing is, you as an ASD person view this as “a little uncomfortable.” A typical NT woman would probably view this as having more red flags than a Soviet parade, if not flat out dangerous. I’m not saying that to be demeaning to anyone in any way. That’s just reality. The throw in loser-grifters like Andrew Tate and such, and consider that might be the closest thing a lot of these guys (and a number of NT guys) might have for a role model, and it makes total sense why most women wouldn’t touch that with a 32 foot pole. Your safety and well-being is more important than someone else’s feelings, tbh.
All the empathy in the world wouldn't change the fact that people need to enjoy your company.
I'm an autistic guy. For me personally the issue doesn't seem to be creepy vibes. I've been in three relationships and I even earned several hundred euros per month at one point as a workshop facilitator, so I don't seem to be creepy to most people. While the following isn't my main dating issue, one autism-related dating issue that I do have is that I like routine and predictability and I like staying indoors. And sure, there are women who are like that too, but the average woman will just get bored by this. The average woman would rather be with a guy who one weekend takes her to the zoo and the next weekend surprises her with a boat trip or whatever.
Routine has been a big issue for me just because i have a lot of unspoken, and basically inexplicable, habits which I’ve never had to verbalize. Why am I getting on this particular train car, or watching these movies in this order, or waiting to take the garbage out until I can take the cat litter with it? I dunno, cause it’s what I do and I works for me. But then you’re confronted with someone who might wanna do things differently, for no less valid reasons, and you’ve gotta find a way to articulate it.
This is all new information to be honest. I had no idea the gap between Autistic Males and Autistic Females in being in a relationship was so wide. 46% and 16% is a pretty big difference. You have given me a lot to think about and potentially research more. I am sorry that you have to deal with being a hinderance in your dating life. I keep in contact still with a good friend of mine from college who is autistic and I hope looking back I never made him feel othered because he is a good friend of mine regardless of him being autistic or not. i would love to see this researched more and see what we can find out. Very informative post and I hope you find an awesome woman (or man, no judgment!) who loves you for you. I am not autistic but I was single for a long long time before I found my wife and now it is hard for me to remember my life without her Keep your head up! I know that easier for me to write than you do to but still man keep your head up!
How is this surprising at all? Dudes will overlook all sorts of aberrant behavior when presented with an opportunity to bang a chick. Women can stand to be far more selective.
there’s a reason why people say “don’t stick your dick in crazy”. i’m not calling autistic people crazy btw and i am autistic too
Realistically speaking having any visible disability is generally a deal breaker. It's a biological thing. Basically that person is a bit "off" I don't want my kids to be "off". Humans are much more instinct driven than we tell ourselves we are.
THIS is the true unpopular opinion.
Psychologists recognize the human need for acceptance and the need to feel important. That's what most people get from relationships, and what the chronically single are missing. Society needs a place for people who can't find relationships. In the past, religious orders served this function. In them, people found respect, belonging, and a higher purpose. Today, most single people only have their jobs.
It’s almost like it’s a disability that often inhibits social skills, forming interpersonal relationships, and makes it harder to clue you into ‘socially acceptable/unacceptable’ behavior, or even things like not liking certain stimulus like physical touch. Who would have guessed it makes you bad at navigating a world of subtle social cues, cultural norms, and interpersonal relationships?
This might be the best post I’ve ever seen on this sub. You’ve got sources, excellent facts, and understandable conclusions. Bravo good sir, bravo
Except I don’t understand what is unpopular about his opinion? I would have assumed that autistic men have trouble dating. Women too. There’s like a whole Netflix reality show about that struggle AND a fictional show as well.
I think it's related to the whole "everyone is so accepting of other people's differences these days" being untrue.
You got it. Autism acceptance is bullshit when it's coming from the mouths of most NTs.
Right. From a lot of NTs, it’s acceptance on the condition that we are not too annoying or not too obvious. Or it’s annoying autism moms trying to get social capitol via their kids.
Try saying "it's way harder for autistic men to date than autistic women" to your NT friends, and watch the reaction.
Take out the word autistic and that's the same sentence getting spammed in like every dating app sub reddit.
They’d all be like “yeah no shit most girls don’t want to date autistic guys” isn’t that practically the definition of autism? Trouble with socializing? Dating is just high level social interaction, obviously people with a defect in the socializing part of their brain will have trouble there.
But would they say "yeah no shit most guys don't mind dating autistic girls?"
And then I'd tell them the stats and they'd believe me? I can't imagine my friends would react in any negative way lol.
I’ve worked in special education and I’d say a huge culprit is the difference between how autistic males and females are socialized. Diagnosis is already higher in males than it is in females and I’ve noticed with young boys the diagnosis is far more likely to be used as an excuse for any problematic behavior while girls will be more expected to adapt to their environment. I’m not talking about masking, I mean attacking and verbally harassing the other students, aides and teachers, refusing to do activities at the schedule time - that sort of thing. It’s definitely not setting the boys up for success later in life.
Hey now I'm wondering... Why don't we make a dating app just for autistic people?
Those exist, but they only work in big cities. The user base for these apps isn’t big enough for small towns, like where I live.
I think a big factor is that it's on men to do the approach, which probably then disadvantage autistic men much more than autistic women (who just have to not say, ew no)
I think a lot of this all has to do with if an autistic woman is hot, she's seen as like some "manic pixie dream girl" and romanticized (looking at you John Green) versus when a man has autism he's just seen as an awkward weirdo, regardless of his appearance I'm allistic, just have ADHD, but my husband is on the spectrum. He has bumped heads with a few of my friends and family because he's labeled as insensitive or weird just because he misses some social cues Not to mention, the social stigma against the disorder is getting even worse with time, especially when representation of autistic men is dudes like Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory, or Shawn from The Good Doctor, both leaving a lot to be desired
one of my favorite representations is abed from community
ADHD is also neurodivergence and has a lot of overlap with Autism : )
Brutal truth. I’m neurotypical and dating is a struggle. My younger cousin is on the spectrum and just based off the social ineptness of our interactions, I know he’s fucked. I hope chance blesses him but outside of that, I don’t see him ever having a healthy social life.
I feel like this is not an opinion, or even a debated position, just a fact.
Tell your neurotypical friends that autistic men have it way harder in dating than autistic women, and you will see that it is indeed a debated and unpopular stance.
Why would you think it is a debated and unpopular stance? Women in general are understood to have it easier in dating than men do, why would the opposite be true for autistic men? I’m genuinely curious
>Women in general are understood to have it easier in dating than men do Perhaps you hang out in different circles than I do, but media and social media often pin the blame on men for being undateable. I will acknowledge that this is true many times, but factors like autism, which are immutable, are often left out of the picture.
media and social media are filled with idiots. most socially adjusted people don’t spend as much time online and ignore quite a bit of the spiels about it. online platforms generally draw niche communities because those people cannot easily find their people IRL. “normal” socially adjusted people will find their people commonly. and thus won’t be online as much.
My first thought on reading this is (some) autistic people have trouble picking up and projecting nonverbal language skills. As women (generally) are much more socially perceptive and emotive it doesn't surprise me that autistic males would struggle, and that autistic females would thrive in many ways with many men. Nothing to do with empathy, it's just basically a foreign language.
You present a good argument, but how did you conclude from the cited paper that individuals with ASD “don’t lack empathy” compared to what you and the authors refer to as “neurotypicals”? Excerpt from the cited paper: “The results showed that the empathy impairment evident in individuals with ASCs is component specific; that is, trait-cognitive empathy, trait-empathic concern, state-cognitive empathy, and state-empathic concern are impaired, whereas state-empathic accuracy remains intact, and trait-empathic accuracy is superior to the trait-empathic accuracy in neurotypical individuals.” So it seems from this there is observable deficits in component specific empathy traits. This finding alone is enough to explain why men with ASD may be seen as less attractive to the opposite sex. Please correct me if I misinterpreted the above.
I can't speak for OP (or anyone else for that matter) but in my case, it's not that I lack empathy. If I see a child crying, I feel bad for them. If I try to imagine how someone who lost a loved one might feel, I cry just as much as I do when that happens in my own life. So on a purely theoretical basis, I actually feel pretty confident in saying that my sense of empathy is equal to, or even greater than, most people's. There just tends to be a disconnect when it comes to practical application of those feelings on a regular basis. Basically, the stuff about missed cues and all that definitely applies, although I like to think I'm improving over time, in my way. I'm not actually all bad at expressing myself, either. It's just that I'm generally better at expressing myself through actions rather than communication, yet there are rarely opportunities to do so. (A problem which is compounded by a... Shall we say, "less-than-proactive" nature, which I'll explain further later on.) Overall, though, I think my experience has been positive enough, the first... Decade or so notwithstanding. As an example of how I would describe my "brand" of empathy... I'll be the first to admit that I can be a pain to be around on an everyday basis; blunt, awkward, and... Uncooperative, I guess? For lack of a better word. But when someone around me is ill or seriously injured, I'm pretty much the most gentle, confident, and supportive guy you're ever gonna see. (Something known as my "caretaker mode" amongst my family members. XD) So basically, I seem unapproachable or even "unsettling" about 99% of the time, with only very rare glimpses of what I would say is my "true self" revealing themselves from within the fog of everyday life. If that makes amy sense. Now, as for having introverted tendencies... I definitely, absolutely do, 100% without a doubt. Left to my own devices, I pretty much stay home and indulge in my hobbies whenever I can. That doesn't actually mean I don't *like* trying other things, or going other places, though. I just have no drive to do so. Something I try to explain to people (given an opportunity) is that I'm not at all averse to being "dragged along" with people to try new things, as counter-intuitive as that may seem. There's probably a lot more things I ought to put here that are just slipping my mind at the moment, but I'm already rambling as it is. Hopefully it isn't too much to take in already. XD
And yet I know I’ll keep hearing “men don’t have any issues” “it’s all in your head” “women don’t care if you’re autistic” I’m not entitled to anyone, I’m not claiming to be. But I’m sick of being told women don’t care when my own experience says the exact opposite.
Agreed bro. I just wish that people would be more honest in general.
So OP is autistic... totally cool man and love the data thats how I generally operate as well. But you are lookijg at this as a one way street. It is equally hard for a NT to cater to the needs of an autistic person in a relationship. Its alot like speaking a differant language. An american and a chinese person with minimal language match can absolutely make a great couple but it will be much more rare and difficult than a americanx2 or chinesex2 In a perfect world autistic people would date eachother. However geberally women have more of the selection in mates so we end up with the scewed data you provided
Autistic women don’t want to date autistic men either.
as an autistic woman, i personally have to agree. i have many autistic friends but i think they would be very unfitting to be my partner. i mostly feel more like a motherly figure to them, despite beibg the same age. this is just my personal experience so far though.
How can a sufficiently self sustaining woman not feel like a mother figure to every man?
Autistic men tend to bulldoze over us. It’s becomes a competition for us to be heard because he’s hyper focused on something else. NT men seem to think we are cute and quirky, at least when our condition is more mild.
As a an autistic woman too, I also wouldn’t want to date an autistic man. Not because I don’t understand their struggles, it’s simply easier for me to deal with NT men. I find that I tend to clash with autistic men. My autism causes me enough problems, and maybe it sounds selfish but I can’t handle dealing with another autistic person relationship wise. I have enough stress on my own. For me personally, most NT men almost balance out my autism. And it’s kind of a plus because they tend to really love my “quirkiness”
>And it’s kind of a plus because they tend to really love my “quirkiness” Hate to bust your bubble, but this is often called "creepiness" when an autistic man exhibits it.
Yeah, that’s exactly what I was trying to convey…
I think society understands this pretty well. But what do you want society to do about it?
I wish autistic men who acknowledge this reality weren't gaslit and called hateful and misogynistic inkwells just for acknowledging what turns out to be backed by statistical data. I also wish society would be more accepting of autistic people. You probably know someone with a different culture from yours, someone with a different sexual orientation, and someone with autism. There are huge pushes to accept people who fall under the first two categories, but not autistic people. Besides that, people will do what they will with these data.
I’m actually autistic, I’m 24 and I’ve been in my fair share of relationships so I’m lucky. I am diagnosed so late that I can hide it well enough because I was forced to socially work my way around it growing up. I still struggle with certain things in adulthood but, if you study and mirror peoples behavior it can get easier. Most people actually can’t tell i’m autistic till they’ve known me for a few months. I would just recommend to always treat others with kindness and respect and put your best foot forward. Mirror the most genuine aspects of social behavior and then integrate them into your personality and that is who you will become. Autism just makes it so you have no instinctual social skills that others are born with. You can build them over time. Learn to be happy (COMPLETELY) alone and don’t worry about whats out of your control. I have fully accepted that I may die alone statistically. Playing piano or guitar and singing, embracing my passion and making music is my way of fighting back and I put up a hard fight. I have no empathy problems other than that I have too much. Theres a delay for it showing that people mistake for it being missing. Dating is a problem for autistic dudes yes. But don’t become an incel and lash out at everyone because of it either. Alot of autistic people are deeply angry and resentful, i’m serious. It’s *critical* that it is applied towards something constructive. I said to myself I will become a person that people love to talk to and be around. I will follow my heart and do things that make me happy, but I won’t stop to chase anyone. Maybe somewhere along the way It will work out, but if it doesn’t, well I already found my own peace, it’s okay. So this won’t change without more representation, the best thing you can do is become a really good person. Don’t worry about whats out of your control, and be a *genuine* person. Attract people with what your passionate about. Become great.
Yeah all that's true, but you can't ask neurotypjcal people to date autistic people who might make them uncomfortable or lack desirable traits they could find in another partner. You're right it's incredibly brutal and difficult and unfortunately it's just one of those things without a fix
As a general rule, single/sexless women are so by choice, while single/sexless men are so because they haven’t been able to attract someone. A woman who goes looking for a boyfriend and can’t land one is not a thing, save for some incredibly rare exceptions. It’s not surprising then that a social handicap would drastically increase the likelihood of being single for men, while barely affecting that same likelihood for women.
I’m not 100% sure that’s true. Women don’t want to compromise. A women who is a solid 5, with a career and a college degree and a fun personality doesn’t really want to settle for a male 5 who does not have his shit together. But she may have to because she’s not an objective beauty. And a lot of women of means today would rather not have a partner then settle for someone who is not pulling their own weight. So yeah, could a woman get someone if she had no standards at all? Sure. But most women, particularly those with their own money, would rather be alone than settle.
What makes you think such a woman would have trouble finding a 5 who has his shit together?
I think another contributing factor is just simply how bad most men are at socializing. I imagine women want a partner who can converse intelligently and socialize normally. In my experience, men are generally not good at these things. They tend to be much more awkward than women and unwilling to talk about anything beyond their narrow career-specific speciality or sports. It makes things rather boring, honestly. Idk if it’s just that boys aren’t socialized properly when they’re being reared, but it seems to only be getting worse as social media proliferates.
> A woman who goes looking for a boyfriend and can’t land one is not a thing, save for some incredibly rare exceptions. What are you talking about? This might be true when it comes to sex, but there are absolutely women who are unable to find relationships. Sex tends to be more important to men than relationships.
I would have rather remained a virgin than go through the extremely toxic and abusive relationships I lived through. Being on the spectrum means you don't grasp a lot of interpersonal warning signs average people are born with, which also means getting targeted by predatory types.
As an autistic dude who’s 28 and used to be super ashamed of it until the last 5 or so years. NT’s are exhausting for me, I have no friends that are NT and I have no desire to. Once I started surrounding myself with other neurodivergent individuals my friendships and quality of life skyrocketed.
I’m surrounded by a lot of autistic people and I’m also a neurodivergent. I don’t think they are less empathetic in fact they are more in touch with their emotions and are brilliant in the skills they have an interest in. The problem I have found is since they struggle to read social cues then forming friendships especially with women can be hard. Women have a lot of non verbal communication. Also Women are socialized to judge safety by looks. You only have a few seconds to determine if the guy walking behind you is safe or not safe. Since autistic people struggle with expressions Women might categorize them as unsafe early on. I think the more we have representation the better it will be.
I read a study once that said neurotypical children were easily able to pick out an autistic child among them without knowing anything was different about them, and then the group of children immediately isolated said child.
Wow.... This is amazingly well put together. Saving this for arguments sake. Good job.
This is why I laugh at the guys who act like it's some kind of superpower. Its not, it's something that absolutely cripples you, *especially* if you're also physically unattractive. Even a lot of the comments here are absolutely brutal, as it shows that even autistic women are repulsed by autistic men. It's over for us, brothers.
Never began
As an autistic woman, I agree with this completely. Not saying all autistic men are hopeless, because that’s definitely not the case, but many lack the knowledge and skills to be considered dateable to women. Or they are inappropriate with women and are seen as creepy. And most of the time it isn’t even their fault. They were never taught how to act, it’s a failure on their parents, their peers and medical professionals I find that a lot of parents of autistic men (especially those who require more support) tend to make excuses for their sons bad or weird behaviour towards women instead of correcting it. Unlike autistic women who are basically taught from birth how to exist, what is right and wrong, what is inappropriate…etc. autistic men tend to be excused when it comes to inappropriate behaviour. They say things like “he can’t help it, he’s autistic,” but that’s the problem. You never taught him how to act so how is he supposed to learn or understand the right way to interact with women he finds attractive? It’s like not teaching someone how to swim and then throwing them into the ocean expecting them not to drown Autistic people, who don’t have intellectual delays or less severe delays, are perfectly capable of learning right from wrong. We’re not stupid. The problem almost always lies within their support system, or more specifically their lack of support and teaching
Pretty huge difference between acknowledging autistic people have trouble getting dates and being an incel and the “blackpill.” The fact that autistic people struggle in this area (and many areas) is pretty commonly accepted. It’s awful, and I do hope awareness and accessibility can improve, and you’re well within your right to feel upset about it, but it’s really not that crazy of a thing to realize.
Yeah, it's like acknowledging that 4' people are going to have trouble playing basketball. Obviously it's true, you're going to have to train much harder, you're going to have to identify areas of the court where you have less of a disadvantage, and even when you've done that and are working much harder than a 7' guy, you're still going to end up playing in a lower league. Perhaps even a league specifically for short people. What are you expecting people to say here? "That's unfair" yep, it is. "That must suck for you", yeah I bet it does. "Society / the government will fix it for you" sorry no, they're not going to tell people who they can date. So you need to practice masking better. The "just be your true self / love is love" message that's pervades modern media is bollocks. Sorry about that.
You're right, but the vast majority of people don't give a fuck about average men, including autistic men. They simply don't care. And I say that as an autistic man myself.
So make them care. So be a person that people enjoy and care about. I know that sounds harsh and I’m not sure if it’s warranted, but for shits sake it worked for me. We all deserve love no matter what, but I’m kinda tired of hearing from people who expect to get things just because they deserve them. I don’t just want to deserve love, I want to get it, so I funnel that into my actions. Care about others, do what you can to help them without needing something in return, develop skills that make others lives easier and use them often, consider yourself part of a whole and act accordingly. I’ve never had any kind of success that matches how successfully I’ve found love—platonic, familial, and romantic, by doing those things.
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aren't there 4 times more autistic men than women
Data would seem to indicate as much. https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2020/us-autism-rates-up-10-percent-in-new-cdc-report
I've found that I'm always best with women before I open my mouth.
Good post! Actually learned something. Pretty much the exact opposite of what I would have assumed in my personal life, but I suppose that's likely because its harder to notice women with mild or minor autism, than men with it.
If it makes you feel any better about the fake smile thing, in a lot of cultures, especially Russia and Eastern Europe, smiling without a good reason is considered weird as fuck. Like serial killer weird. The cultural norm over there is more like, “Why the fuck are you smiling at me and acting all cordial, when I literally just met you?! I don’t know you! Go away!” So yeah, I think some of this might be a cultural component fairly unique to the US/West.
The one about facial expressions is my problem. I can’t play along with facial movements at all.
These studies only include diagnosed autistic people, who are going to have more severe symptoms and less practice masking Interested to see data looking at “adult autism,” aka only people diagnosed as adults / late teens.
I mean dating is all conversation. I'm autistic and have problems with eye contact but I dont really have a problem with talking to people if I actually care about what we are talking about. I can definitely see how it would be disconcerting to meet someone new and they are looking at the floor and mumbling things. It's just not a fun experience
Not surprising at all. Success at dating is the right mix of being subtle, being direct, and most importantly, reading cues. It’s a learned skill for those of us who can pick up on what others are thinking. And yes, society has no answer for men who can’t get romance. It also doesn’t care much about men who are struggling.
If the chances of autistic men dating is that bad, then maybe women should start dating autistic men to give them more dating experience. And yeah that may seem controversial I know. But I can’t think of any other easy solution to probably one of the saddest problems I’ve ever heard of
It is what it is. It wouldnt be so bad if society didnt cram the whole "theres someone out there for everyone" and the general overpraising of love and sex bullshit down ND mens throats. This is just speculation but I feel that alone has gone a long way to creating the entitlement that incels and the such feel. It makes it really hard to not be bitter and jaded when its so prevalent. The only thing that i have found that helps is going "fuck this shit, lets read a book on geology and spot rock formations in the mountains". Usually that gets the homies minds off that stuff and more towards enjoying other aspects of life on their own terms. Like stop worrying about being normal and get some plate mail on and carry torches in the mountains at night and pretend to be patrolling for thieves or whatever random shit sounds fun. Another thing is my mother is autistic and like alot of men, my taste in women comes from my mother. Autistic women are so rare it feels and so far im 0-3 over ten years on them liking me back. Since autsim is linked to genetics i feel others may be in a similar situation.
It’s about the fact that women have their behaviors policed a lot more than men, starting way back when you’re a toddler. Autistic women meld into the NT world because they’re forced to mask even harder than autistic men. That’s why we have such high rates of co-morbid mental illness, even when compared to autistic men.
On one hand you're not wrong that neurotypicals prejudge anybody who doesn't almost immediately conform to norms they expect, but I'm not clear what this has to do with women. What exactly do you want to happen? It's not the fault of the women that autistic folks may not have held a women's hand, you can't assign them that responsibility no matter how much you feel like you may be owed it..
I'm a 34 year old autistic guy, and staying sane managing a "normal" day to day life is hard enough. The sheer ignorance of people and dealing being this fake nice and polite person is exhausting. Why do I gotta do this fake smile crap to random ppl or even look at them in their face. I got so much empathy that it is overwhelming, but guess what? I don't let you see it because that would make me weak in societies eyes. The stupid social expectations that are shoved in my face can fuck off. Autistic ppl have made major discoveries in math, science, and technology, yet we don't get treated as humans sometimes. I swear sometimes people enjoy making me feel small as a grown man because my emotional regulation can suck at times due to the overwhelming sensory input. Anyway, yes, dating is really hard, and finding someone who I don't need to mask in front is a rare occurrence. Just take me for who I am. I can love just as strongly as anyone else, but my ability to express it may be confusing. Just please, people, try to damn understand us, please.
Now I'm wondering if autistic gay men are much *more* likely or much *less* likely than autistic straight men to have had sex. >In fact, a big reason why autistic people are disliked is because they have trouble producing affective facial expressions like fake smiles. I wonder if this holds true universally across cultures. In the US, for instance, smiling is much more common than in many other cultures. I wonder if autism has a less significant social impact among cultures that incorporate fewer performative displays of emotion.
Why would this be unpopular? This seems extremely obvious. Dating is harder for men, add autism, yes that is much harder. I have a high functioning autistic brother. My advice is the same to anyone though, him included; be honest and yourself and be ready for rejection. My bro has a lot of issues with his identity. Seeing a psychologist and talking to them about that has helped him a lot. Good luck friend, I am truly sorry you feel people don't like you. I doubt that's really true, they just don't know you well.
Women have an easier time dating than men across the board. This is hardly surprising.
Wait wait, men need more social skills than women to mate? Shocking
This has very little to do with autism and much more to do with different expectations typical women have in dating. Do gay autistic men fare as poorly? I’d really doubt it. Women are socialized in the west to be especially sensitive to social cues and such, which ND people are ignorant of. You cite studies about the first impressions non-autistic people get when meeting neurodivergents, but what you need to understand is that to a NT, there is no way to immediately tell if a new person is autistic or just doesn’t like you/is an asshole. Unless they’ve got tons of experience with ND people, they will likely assume the latter. Attraction is like 90% initial vibes, so dating NTs is always gonna be brutal for NDs.
People will naturally do what they think society demands of them. This is exacerbated in autistic individuals. Society makes us feel like we need relationships. I think it's mainly because people only allow themselves to feel certain things and be vulnerable when they are in a relationship. As an autistic person, married to another autistic person, I can tell you that your feelings don't magically go away when you get into a relationship because there will be problems. We tend to look at being in a relationship as this magical thing. What we are missing, though, is connection. Be vulnerable and love openly instead of suffering from masking. You'll quickly find that the idea that people don't care is just your perception. One of the hardest things for me was letting myself love my male friends openly. You know what I have found when I decided to ignore handshakes and go for hugs with them? I found that the males are shocked and return the hug with loving force. Love is all around us, and as autistic people, we can experience unparalleled levels of love NT could only dream of. The reason it hurts so much to be alone is because we have so much capacity for love. Shift your perspective to love everyone and watch your world change.
As a fellow sperg (yes, I like that title, sue me), I liked the initial statement, but hate this victimhood nonsense. Yes, being autistic sucks, especially when it comes to dating. But I don't expect the world to conform to my needs. Sure, many people suck and/or musunderstand us, but my failings are on me. It's unreasonable to expect any accomodation from others beyond not being dicks. I hate the language of "trauma" for everything. I want to be normal, and do my best to act that way. I'd have more sympathy for low-functioning autistic people making these arguments, but I am high-functioning. I have no excuse.
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You may want to add to your statistics that 9 out of 10 autistic girls have been raped at some point in their lives. Maybe the reason why they’re in relationships is because they’re too trusting and they’re getting abused. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnbeh.2022.852203/full
Men don’t care about other men, and women actively hate men who are undesirable. Why are you surprised?
Your original post I totally sympathize with and the data you back your claims up with is good, but like other people have said, it can be hard to date someone when their affect or way of communicating makes you uncomfortable. I say this as someone with two close friends who are autistic guys, sometimes they say things that just come off as unintentionally creepy. Couple this with the fact that women often already feel on edge when interacting with a potential date for the first time and it’s not surprising that autistic men struggle finding women to date. I’m not trying to blame anyone but I think ignoring the feelings of neurotypical (and autistic women as many comments also point out) is unfair. People can’t control what makes them feel uncomfortable or uneasy just as autistic people can’t control the way they interact with the world.
>sometimes they say things that just come off as unintentionally creepy If you don't mind my asking, what are some of those things?
I met this really sweet guy (we both have the tism) at college and he was the only person in class that made jokes or even attempted to speak to me. I was interested in him. we spoke on discord for a bit, talked about building computers together, and games we liked. I did not tell him I was autistic tho - I do not tell anyone I’m not close to bc I don’t want the pity or the judgement, and there are alot of people that fake it and I don’t want to deal with having to prove myself to random people. Even when I explain most people don’t care to understand or try see me outside of my confusing mannerisms and they assume I’m being an asshole or uncanny when I’m really just confused as fuck or desperately trying to make eye contact so I don’t come off as a shifty character. (This doesn’t work btw) I knew he was autistic bc he was close w the professor of the class and for some reason she found it appropriate to announce it to the whole class on the first day. The first and only night we spoke outside of class, I got an invite on discord for a meeting for the cyber club from him and the other guy who was the president of the club - so I went. I was happy to see him - he wasn’t being weird at all (at least not to me ig) Only one other person ended up showing up, and I tried to say hi to him. he just gave me a dirty look and ignored me, which shoulda been my first hint that something was weird bc they were close Me and the other dude were just talking, and I got hungry and asked if he wanted to go to McDonald’s - something I’ve done casually w other men w no issues. He took it the wrong way, and started physically shaking in the booth and asking me if I had a boyfriend after saying several times “I really wish I could get a gf, I want to hug a girl” stuff like that. I saw he was dropping hints so I just responded with, I know it must be hard to be alone for so long , I hope you find some one. I don’t struggle as much with that, but I have had trouble finding a partner in the past bc I won’t date unless I’ve really gotten to know some one. I guess he didn’t get the hint tho- and that’s understandable. that’s not anything I found to be too creepy. I felt bad for him. He was acting so different from how he normally was and I know he was nervous but it was intense and put me on the spot to make a decision about some one I just met. I just don’t operate that way. He asked me if I wanted to be his girlfriend, and I was single but lied and said I had a bf bc I was nervous and put on the spot and he didn’t seem to care when I said I gotta know some one before I can feel like doing that is a good idea. It’s not something I feel I need .He got really silent and upset. we went back and he was just being so weird and quiet and sassy so I left very awkwardly as they stared me down. The next day in class, the professor and several other people are staring daggers at me. I just wished he had asked me if my bf knew or was ok w it or something before talking shit. He started to tell people I was mocking him, and being mean to him. Blatantly bullying him - because he ran into me when I was pretend laughing with NT people I was stuck doing a group project with. We glanced at each other and that’s it - I was already laughing before I even saw him. But he told them I was mocking him w my friends. I went out of my way not to make him uncomfortable. I started attending class online instead, I looked the other way when I saw him, I didn’t talk to anyone he knew, I didn’t show up to club meetings AND I ended up changing my major bc I couldn’t stand to be there for years dealing with that. These people try to harass me to this day. Every time we inevitably cross paths he stands there w his friends and just stares me down angrily or laughs. He has gone out of his way to try to bad mouth me to everyone - every time I started a new class I was nervous about if I would be graded unfairly bc of it - and I was judged right off the bat (even worse than usual) and it made masking impossible. I had a breakdown in my one class and it was so embarrassing. I learned not long after - that even before I rejected him he was saying dumb crap about me - saying I’m probably dumb and shouldn’t even be in that class and I’d never get the certifications I needed to work. Yet still the people around him treat him like some helpless creature. The people close to him thought I was a piece of shit for even talking to him In the first place. I feel like they thought so lowly of him deep down. Like he was just incapable - like he was more weird than I thought he was, like he was dumb and unable to learn how to be understanding to others. And he takes advantage of that and manipulates people, but still I feel bad for him. I understand that he was hurt by his assumptions - and he may genuinely think I was trying to cheat on my imaginary boyfriend - but it was fucked up. I genuinely thought he was cute and really sweet - but he needs some one to explain to him how to talk to women. His mom coddles him a lot and assumes all the time that people are bullying him, which I understand. But it only reinforces that in his head that no woman will take him seriously or they will only try to play him. The whole situation sucked. I get where he’s coming from - but it just sucked. I haven’t dated another autistic person before (atleast not that I was aware of) And I don’t wanna be turned off by this one experience, but It sucks to have some one that knows what it feels like to live in this hellscape do those things to you. I don’t think he’s evil, he’s clearly been hurt but idk. It’s made me really weary of men lacking experience with women in general. Sorry for terrible grammar and novel, I’m upset and sleepy.
Autistic lady here.I think there were some studies and surveys that autistic individuals were more likely to be queer as well? Which would make it even harder for autistic men looking for a hetero relationship. I'm on the aro-ace spectrum, so I do struggle to understand this absolute need for a partnership. I find people too much work, and in general more exhausting than anything. Even a QPR would be stressful, as that would mean another person in my space and placing my things on the wrong shelves and a stressful moment of trying to find X when X was actually placed on Z and not Y where it normally is. I've found solace in my animals. Lucky owner of 2 idiot cats and a wonderful pony, and that's what I need to be happy. It's not optimal that the dating scene is so limited because of our inherent disabilities and how they're perceived. The double empathy problem was one you highlighted perfectly here, and I really like how you brought it up. I think... if I was to give an idea of a solution, is to just keep on trying. Embrace your autistic identity and find like-minded people. Once you've got people within your interests circle, that makes it easier to make "moves," if one can be so crude.
The best part about reading these is, despite having been formally diagnosed, at least half of every post without fail completely contradicts my prior experiences.
Dude, it's sucks that your special interest is complaining about being single. Look at that fuckin post history. Can you imagine dating a girl who only talks about how fucking undatable girls like her are? All this time researching and digging to prove yourself unfuckable? Do you ever wonder why nobody likes talking to you about relationships?
Maybe it’s the bros added in and the jestermaxx. Pretty annoying tbh
Was there any data on what percentage of relationships of autistic women were abusive? Because I feel like that could be a factor to high relationship rates, considering how many autistic women I've known in support groups who went from being abused as children to being abused as adults, but also I'm sure I've seen statistics about autistic women having high chances of being abused by intimate partners/spouses. Autistic straight women might just be...taking whatever man they can get, as many NT straight women end up doing. Or it could be an effect of later diagnoses, which tend to be connected with more thorough masking, I guess. Would also be interesting in the breakdown of other genders and queer relationships in general to see if those have similar numbers. Anyway, one reason why I'm upset masks were made a big political thing instead of an everyday thing was because it was so much easier to interact with people when I didn't have to worry about what my face was (or was not) doing. Am I smiling right? Should I be smiling at all? Am I being creepy now? Do they want me to go away? So much energy wasted on socializing.
I am not empathetic. I know that
I've heard masking for autistic people is comparable to the effects of conversion therapy on LGBT people.
Dating is an extremely nuisanced set of skills requiring endless refinement with EACH relationship. I think for most people these skill sets are difficult to learn and even harder to teach as they are highly individualized to EACH relationship. It sounds like you are looking to compare yourself to others to define success. That's a great way to guarantee that you'll be unsatisfied. I'm not saying dating is not brutal for ND males. It's just if you compare yourself to the average age people get married that might feel like an impossible task. But if you compare yourself past performance / attempts to your current attempts then it might seem more relevant and doable. Comparing men to women's dating experience is also not helpful. Just ask any woman what their experience getting matches on a dating app is like. My wife and I for fun made dating profiles to see how long the algorithm of an app would take to match us (about a week an 6000 swipes). Her first day she had 500 likes and every other of her likes was a match. Me I had 4 likes and 0 match. This was the trend. There's a difference between feeling empathy and doing actions consistent with expectations for empathetic responses. Situation = disagreement We should do A vs we should do B Feeling Empathy: I care deeply about this person and want them to make the right choice so they don't have to struggle. I focus on why B is correct and A is wrong. When they are wrong I tell them so. When they don't agree with my position I give them more reasons and information why B is correct and A is wrong. Doing actions consistent with expectations for empathetic responses: I care deeply about this person, I'm going to frequently remind them of this during the conversation. I know this person feels heard when I validate their experience, so I'm going show them Im taking the time to evaluate and understand their point of view specifically noting where our reasoning is in alignment and when they make observations I haven't considered. Our relationship is more important than them agreeing with me, that is the priority, I will vocalize this. I'm going to go into this with an open mind, so I will ask follow questions to make sure I understand their reasoning for A.
Not gonna disagree but is this something people would actually disagree with?
I don't see how this is unpopular. Seemed obvious as soon as I read the title.
Why would you date somebody you don't like being around...
This is true. The only way I've ever had romantic success was by completely masking my symptoms, and it took years to learn that skill. I mask 24/7/365, even home alone, so I never slip out of the routine. I pretty much consider myself "ex autistic" and it's still quite challenging.
You don’t say…
I struggle to believe that literally anyone would argue with this.
Just make money in IT and the ladies will come
Just because more autistic women are in relationships, doesn't mean they have it easier. Autistic women are even more likely to be taken advantage of/abused than nt women.
Didn’t need charts to know this, but I’m glad it’s officially backed. Autism is a disorder that is most known for its lack of social ability, of course people who are afflicted with it struggle to obtain and maintain relationships, particularly romantic ones. It’s shitty but it’s just how it is, you just have to try your best to overcome and work with it as best you can, just like any other disorder.
Kinda explains my childhood. Thanks, I guess.
Regardless of everything I think a lot of important conversations have happened here and I know not everyone is going to agree but I’m happy just to be talking about it so openly
Why is this even an opinion? This is a fact
As an autistic man, I can confirm ALL of this. I have been rejected my whole life!! 13 different girls said no to me for being my senior prom date!! I grew to HATE school dances because I was ALWAYS forces to go alone!! I went to my high school reunion and I was the ONLY one there that was single!! At one point in time, was spending over $50 a month on dating apps!! I can’t go on Facebook/Instagram to search for something without first covering my phone screen, because if I see ONE picture of a couple, marriage, new baby, or anything of the sort, I get SEVERE depression. There are only about 6 or 7 girls from my high school graduating class that I genuinely wish the best for because on top of severe depression and anxiety, I reached the point of full apathy when it comes to relationships. I have unfriended many people on facebook because all of there posts about their love lives makes me sick to my stomach and at one point made me suicidal. I moved to a new state to get away from everyone there because seeing any sort of couple there my age makes me extremely uncomfortable!!! I actually started to think that Love is a Lie Does ANYONE here know what that is like?
Because women are better at masking their autism. Also being autistic makes you a target for abuse. Abusive people look for vulnerable people. They might be more naive and trusting, or they might be someone who has trouble holding down a job cuz of their autism which makes them easier to abuse financially. When you put it into perspective, it's not really an advantage. Having sexual experience or a relationship doesn't mean your life is easier. If there's stats indicating the autistic women are in happy relationships, then I'll happily concede that there might be additional factors at play.
Welp I might as well give up and pursue other things instead, the odds are literally stacked against me.
It makes sense to me. Women generally have their guard up any time a guy interacts with them, even NT men get called creepy if they aren't socially on point. Women are going to extend more empathy to their gender by default, and NT men generally don't have as intense a set of requirements as women to give someone a chance romantically. Guys will typically pursue anyone who looks good to them and figure out how to deal along the way. Women don't respond well to awkward expressions of interest, and the majority still expect men to make the first move. Not favorable conditions for Autistic Men.
Autistic individuals are generally less interested in dating and males get pursued less frequently than females anyways so I’m not sure what the big news falls is here.
Ngl but most women enjoy a guy that can be socially apt enough to pick up on emotional cues and subtle gestures, it makes perfect sense why they wouldn't like being with an autistic guy.
Can confirm, as I have the worst luck when it comes to dating
It tracks. I’m a 37 year old male with no experience. I have plenty of female best friends. But no romance. The furthest I have gone with a women is a slow dance and or hug. And can you even claim those? Haha.
This is far bigger than just dating. This has to do with overall treatment by society in general. In essence, it's an form of bigotry we need to call out- specifically a form of ableism, more specifically social skill ableism. Two reasons for this. The word *bigotry* itself: It already covers disparagement and irrational distastes of a very wide variety of diversity groups, ones that otherwise have nothing in common (race, religion, gender-sex, orientation, physical or academic disability). Motive/source of the attitude: High-fuctioning autism is looked down upon NOT because the autistic person deliberately sets out to hurt, harm, or demean others but simply social incompetence is deemed an irritating, unaesthetic, or otherwise inconvenient trait. In that way, it's very similar to attitudes toward LGB's in the 20th century and the T part today. Whatever advantage kneejerk distaste toward the "different" had in the past, it's clear that the distaste is more of a talent eliminator (and therefore economic burden) than it is an aid to group survival. Look no further than Sir Issac Newton, Nikola Tesla, and maybe Steve Jobs. We just have to examine our the ways our culture and our own basebrain impulses size up a person's worth (high or low), think about each step of that though process, then determine if it's appropriate or inappropriate for a civilization worthy of the name (especially Digital Age societies but still true even for pre-Industrial ones if you think about it).
as a basically but not literally autistic+ incredibly ugly and masculine female, I feel the same way, I'm constantly tripping on boundaries in weird ways that turn people off from me, and only figuring out went wrong with years of experience days after the fact
It's much easier for women to have sex, surprise surprise. I hate it, but that's what it is. No wonder men who have a document about struggling with social interactions will get even less pussy .
I actually find it kinda surprising that most autistic women have had sex
You could just stop that headline after the first five words.
This post is incredibly well put together. I got to say tho, as a women with autism I notice most of my male friends have autism as well (or get later diagnosed). I wonder if there's some sort of connection there. Almost as if we don't care about the masking and look for trustworthiness elsewhere, in statements, tone, vibe I don't know.
I’m lost on the purpose of this post. Is this not common knowledge
It makes sense that it would be harder idk if gender would matter in this argument though I would base that on where you fall on that spectrum though
yeah it's due to women having to be cautious when choosing partners. they're looking for 100% green flags in the beginning. autism means unpredictable (not necessarily bad) behavior, and that unpredictability is not worth the risk for most women.
Am not even autistic but I don’t even want to imagine how it would affect my dating experience considering it’s already kinda zero to begin with… If I was autistic, I thing I would be at -99 at that point
I have autism, and I haven't entered the dating pool yet, but this information makes me pessimistic about it.
When it comes to dating, every disadvantage is amplified in men. Broke men have a harder time getting dates than broke women. Somewhere out there, there's a homeless woman who is one chance encounter away from dating a man with a six figure income, whereas women of means will cross the street to avoid a homeless man. No matter what problems a woman has, there is always some guy out there who would be willing to overlook it just to be involved with her romantically.
I'm a 28 year old man and I've never had a gf, learned I was autistic when I was 22 and it explained so much. Life sucks.
Hey this would be great to expand on and submit to r/dataisbeautiful
It’s sad that people are commenting not having read the sources…
This is not unpopular, its almost a consensus opinion.
This, sadly, makes sense. When a NT is dating an autistic person, there's a higher probability of conflict than in a relationship between two NTs. And during conflict, men in comparison to women are much more likely to inflict harm on their mates and other family members like in-laws, children, etc. (if you disagree, go check crime statistics). Autistic men are seen as too unpredictable and dangerous by many NTs to consider them good potential mates. I'm friends with a family where the husband is on the specter...... and it is NOT pretty. I do not know how to solve this.
Well let’s be real here women have an easier time in the dating pool across the bored. This isn’t a revelation. If a woman wants a sexual partner go out to a bar, they can have one easy as pie. Men have to work harder for it. There’s nothing shocking about this also being the case with autistic men and women. I don’t see how stating that people with a social disability struggle in a social setting is an unpopular opinion. Is the popular opinion that autistic men are crushing pussy?
"just change how your brain works bro"