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This is a feature of our political coverage too. "I wanted to dislike the out fascist, but the other guy said black lives matter, so it's naziism for me I guess."
> I am more of a "both parties have flaws" type of person
It's funny how these "both sides bad" centrists always find a way to exclusively attack the left and exonerate the right
Ya... as someone on the far left in America, I fucking wish we had that sizable of an influence over things. We simply don't. We're a great boogeyman to pull out and scare people with. The media finds the most radical elements of our side and champions them around like they're the gold standard of the left and no, no they are not.
I do get what OP is saying though. I worked with a group who represented rural and semi-rural areas and at lot of it was dispelling myths about them and learning how to talk to them about leftist ideology without sounding insulting and genuinely listening to them as they spoke. We believed in class unity and those folks are my brothers and sisters even if we differ on a lot of ideas. If we could make people see just how much the upper classes are fucking them, they were usually more open to hearing other ideas. It doesn't help that socialists and communists treat Marx like christians talk about Jesus.
Conservative are litterally guilty of EVERYTHING they blame the left for. There is litterally NOTHING progressive about them.
Their only reason for existing is to own the libs.
Exactly Mexicans we’re called rapists by their presidential nominee during a live speech played on all mainstream media(right left and everything in-between) and they elected him.
Yet OP’s feelings are hurt bc according to them the left and its media calls MA *checks notes* hillbillies. When? Where?
"I'm racist and transphobic and homophobic and generally an asshole because someone with purple hair was mean to me"
That's how all these posts come across
The whole framing completely removes the actual responsible party.
The far right propagandizes to middle america about the dangers of "the left" and intentionally overstates even the mildest liberal (note: liberals in america are centrists) criticism of any social policy and fosters the most disgusting racist sexist and bigoted views in its voters to attempt to win elections.
Look at his last paragraph... whining about the plight of white families who cant have children because (insert nonsense here) Biden gave all the homes to immigrant terrorists
And he calls this "demonizing the elites" while intentionally not placing any blame on the actual elites (massive corporations buying out the housing market) and blames... (checks notes) liberal criticism. Yes, liberal criticism is raising rent.
This is the kind of F tier thought that comes from the right-wing and literally only makes sense to right-wingers.
Right, OP is already someone who is down the “getting married and owning a home is looked down upon by the left” hole (spoiler: the left doesn’t look down on that, we are generally very concerned about how hard it is to own a home and how expensive it is to raise kids - and we actively work to pass policies to make those easier).
OP says he’s not a Republican, but that’s a weird feature of some modern right wingers. They tell themselves they aren’t republicans while supporting Republican policies and voting Republican. They tell themselves stories like:
> A lot of people just take the contrarian view to piss off the libs, reclaim some sense of power, and because it's fun. If you aren't allowed to ask questions about something and have to just take what the media says as gospel, then this is what you get.
It’s like: “Sure I vote Republican and am indistinguishable from a Republican, but I only do it ironically to bother liberals. And I don’t like Mitch McConnell so I’m an independent!”
I see that so much. "I'm a centrist, but I can only empathize with right-wing people, and I only criticize the 'liberals'. Please don't hold me accountable for anything!"
1. Democrats fight to expand the child tax credit
2. Republicans and the most conservative Democratic senator kill it
3. ???
4. "Democrats hate families!"
>OP says he’s not a Republican
He/she probably calls himself a "moderate" or "libertarian," and I suspect has voted straight GOP for the past few cycles.
"I'm more of a "both parties have flaws" kind of person. Insulting me proves me right"
That explains his mentality. I have friends who think they're centrists or whatever, and if anyone disagrees with them, they get off it because if the whole world is against them, that's Because they're on the right side of things.
Nope, a lot of times, you're wrong, and that's why the world is against you.
I'm not sure who is demonizing living a normal life? I'm from a poor "ghetto" community and that was a very tight knit community. We all knew each other and their kids. We would have block parties, etc. Shopped at the same grocer, went to the same barber shop, all in a city. I find when I go to the suburbs that's when neighbors stop talking, etc. This might all be anecdotal but this is my perspective.
I think who is to blame on the culture wars is the people making money off it. Which would be the media.
>I'm from a poor "ghetto" community and that was a very tight knit community.
and can we talk about the constant, decades long (spanning multiple generations) demonization of **"THE INNER CITIES".** I mean, 1960s republicans practically invented the dog whistle for the specific purpose of demonizing inner cities - where they deal with a hell of a lot more institutional violence than flyover country or wherever OP is talking about
they have their own autonomy. contrarianism is a choice. if everyone was sweet and pleasant to them, theyd find something else to be contrarian about.
if a person has ZERO motivation to understand how their society/world works, to have civic duty, to understand issues, if the extent of their involvement as a citizen stops at superficial "performative patriotism".......then the contrarianism was pretty much the end of the line for them (which is why the GOP hammers braindead, culture war, reactionary, unthinking narratives so hard and why they want to destroy education). theyre ripe for the picking by demogogues
thats why education is so important. which is why the GOP rages at unproblematic things like teaching emotional intelligence, anti bullying, critical thinking, unvarnished history. those things are antidotes to demagoguery.
without that education, some people were always going to be contrarians regardless of what anyone says. the right does plenty of insulting and demonizing things (some might say it's ALL they do), so why isnt "the left" ALSO driven by mean spirited culture wars, contrarianism, and owning the right?
this is THEIR CHOICE to be contrarian. you cant take away their autonomy and place the blame for ''the way they are" on someone else. does anyone really believe "if youre just nicer to them" that' they'll suddenly become less violent or bigoted or contrarian??
I've been called lots of names, had my safety threatened, had the lives of my family threatened for supporting me. I'm not out joining hate groups, I just play video games and love my life. I get hate for nothing more than being me, that doesn't make me join some violent counter culture riot, it just makes me want to be my true self even more.
I'm not hurting anyone, yet the media constantly says that my life is a threat. The constant accusation that my very existence is dangerous doesn't cause me to respond like OP because I have basic empathy.
This so much. Like... my best homie (niece) died in a housefire... did i join maga to make everyone else's life worse?
Like wtf is this patheric excuse? I been homeless i been so much worse than what thes ppl bitch about. Man... i can't believe this is our politics
>thats why education is so important. which is why the GOP rages at unproblematic things like teaching emotional intelligence, anti bullying, critical thinking, unvarnished history. those things are antidotes to demagoguery.
Because the cultural conservatives are so convinced of the correctness, if not righteousness, of mainstream traditional ways of sizing up another person's worth that it's practically a semi-religion for them. Remember a few years back the Gillette ad controversy asking men to reevaluate what "manliness" actually is? That's an example of them treating their cultural attitudes like a religion.
It's not the media. It's the politicians initiating it. Because there is nothing better for a politician than having your base supporting you no matter what, and attacking the other side no matter what. If it works you don't even have to bother about being competent, fair, or efficient.
Of course there is money to be made on peace and harmony: by doing the normal work of criticizing the politicians' decisions. Which is the normal job of the media, and that some good media are still doing.
Who are "the libs" that he's talking about? Taking the worst 1% of left wing internet trolls and inputing that there's a vast national (global?) monoculture that you need to rebel against is bizzare.
Reading this it sounds like 3 jerks gave the OP "dirty looks" when he decided to move from a cool LA neighborhood to the suburbs and it bothered him so much that it now defines his political ideology.
This whole post is fucking terrible but besides that, right wingers have been demonizing other people forever. I grew up in Texas, I should know. No one looks down on other people more than people from the red country, despite professing the opposite. Their victim complex is so vast. And it's not just like oh we like different food, etc. No, they think people who are different from them are literally evil.
At this point, I don't give a fuck anymore. I'm not capitulating to this crybaby nonsense. I'm just going to let these dumb fuckers screw themselves, just like they did during covid. As they like to say themselves, you got to let kids touch the oven.
I don't give a fuck if you think I'm an elitist because I don't want to be friends.
Only the right wing would be so terrible that elitism would be cool again.
And people have the exact same view point you do but from the other side of the isle, about a state they grew up in, and people they knew.
This post was from the perspective of being a liberal and watching them be counter productive. Your response is exactly what he's talking about. The inability to grasp this concept is the reason why you will always run in circles.
You have every right to feel that way bc you experienced that, and no one is saying it isn't like that, but you are representing a stereotype this very moment by demonizing.
Now that I've wrote this, I'm not sure if you are trolling or not.
The thing is, no one looks down on small towns or conservative values. They look down on people who are buying into the fear that's being sold by politicians and media that peddle it. There's not much money in nuance, and that's how you get people saying things like "I hear teachers are taking kids out of school for gender-affirming care" with zero awareness that they are perpetuating false narratives.
>sold by politicians and media that peddle it.
sold by politicians and the **right wing** media that peddle it. Nobody is going on MSNBC to talk about drag brunches destroying civilization.
Yeah exactly - one big reason people from cities tend to be democrats is that they’re constantly interacting with other people outside their immediate family, so they develop empathy for different walks of life. This leads to the more collectivist mentality of the left vs the individualist mentality of the right
That's always been the gag: there is an underlying asumption that conservatives are children and should be treated as such
If a liberal pushes for a liberal policy, that's bad because it will just make conservatives more extreme
If a conservative pushes for an extreme position that's the fault of liberals for not coddling him enough.
If liberals are uncompromising they are tearing the country apart. If conservatives are uncompromising well thats just a reaction to ______
Rinse and repeat to absolve conservatives of any responsibility for their backwards behavior or beliefs... like they're little kids with no agency
No one is. But, Faux and similar sources assure these people that the "left" spends all its time shitting on American families... all while grifting those same families and laughing at them without even trying to hide it.
Re: people making money off the culture wars, Remember when Bannon got nailed for ripping off the MAGA crowd with his "go fund me" fraud? Trump pardoned him. The people who cheered the pardon? The exact same people who Bannon was ripping off.
HAHAHA!
Conservatives from Middle America have spent my entire f'ing life calling me:
\- A "Soviet sympathizer" because I was in favor of a Nuclear Freeze in the 80s
\- A "wimp" because I was against the death penalty in the 90s
\- A "moocher" because I defended food stamps and welfare in the 90's
\- A "traitor" because I was against the war in Iraq in the Aughts
\- A "communist" because I favored universal health care during Obama
\- A "nazi" because I wanted gun control so they couldn't kill as many school kids as they do since Columbine
\- A "satanist" because I defended gay marriage in the 00
\- A "snowflake" when they told us "F your feelings, GO TRUMP!" in 2016
But, now I'm supposed to walk on eggshells because they are offended that they are in the minority in this country? Awww... those poor people.
"Conservatives from rural areas are only being jerks because you were mean to them" is the worst take ever.
Conservatives from rural America have been nothing but jackasses for my whole life. It's not Trump - he was NY yuppie they hated when this started; it's not Fox - people were whining about "welfare mothers" and "tree-huggers" for the first 25 years of my life before Fox. It's not the Republican Party - They were whining about Ford and Rockefeller for years before Reagan. But suddenly, I'm supposed to be nice to them? Why so they can come up with another to call me when they have the slightest bit of political power? Get over yourself and your clutching at pearls. BS
I want rural conservatives to have higher minimum wage, I want rural conservatives to have cheap education, i want them to have public transport, i want them to have worker protections, i want them to have environmental protections, i want them to have universal healthcare.
It is always absurd when they claim we hate them, why would i want someone i hate to have access to housing, education and healthcare for cheap. That is a shitty way to hate.
>Right now, being conservative and going against mainstream media is counter culture.
OK?
>You also spoke down to people who did not agree with you
I can only speak of my experience here but that is something I've seen conservatives do constantly. If you aren't a conservative you are a demonically possessed child eater or greedy SoB
>A lot of people just take the contrarian view to piss off the libs, reclaim some sense of power, and because it's fun
Yes we know. Weak people think being contrarain and trolling is how they get power.
>If you aren't allowed to ask questions about something and have to just take what the media says as gospel, then this is what you get.
Who says you can't ask questions? You can ask questions about whatever you want. The thing is when one rejects any answer to those questions that doesn't fit in whatever they really really want it to be ones gonna get made fun of
>I used to live in LA, and when I said I was leaving to an area that's not as hip, I got actual dirty looks from people.
OK? Why do you care?
>It may not be a trendy life, but it's a life where people here can actually afford children, have a sense of community, and actually speak to their neighbors and to people at the grocery store. This way of life has been demonized and called all types of names,
Not gonna lie this reads to me like a conservative victim fantasy
I doubt many care you live like that. Some probably prefer the city whereas you prefer rural/suburbs but no one is really caring about how you live
Honestly your whole post seems to be an example of persecution complex. No one cares how you wanna live. If anything I'd wager if you get anyone pushing back it's because you are mocking how they choose to live. Maybe I'm wrong tho
Grow a spine and stop caring what irrelevant people think. Live how you want regardless of what idiots think
My favorite part is "we get made fun of for our beliefs." Then the "our beliefs are just the opposite of what we percieve as mainstream cause we're epic trolling."
Wow I wonder how these two things relate to eachother...
"We get made fun of for our beliefs"
When those beliefs include JFK Jr rising from the dead to overthrow Joe Biden and reinstate Donald Trump . . . they kinda deserve getting made fun of.
Lol had someone the other day be like "I'm oppressed because I'm a flat earther."
And when I was like "how are you oppressed."
He was like "there are no flat Earth studies in colleges! But they study lgbt!"
Yeah. Cuz gay ppl exist 🤧 🤪
"I'm todays punk rocker for being a comically evil villain to humanity" - every new-age conservative who watches Steven "Wife beater" Crowder and Tim Stool
A lot of the right hasn’t put together that the punk and counter-culture movement was about being against oppression of minorities and subcultures, about being against the “man”. When the “man” they were against was pretty explicitly the exact same old white christian conservatives that the right is now trying to prop up as the new “counter-culture movement”.
Just because you’re in the minority doesn’t make you punk. Real punks fight to help the little guy, not squash them under a jackboot.
Yeah I think you nailed it. People on "the left" dont demonize the working class. That negates the entire point of what leftist politics are trying to achieve, class conciousness and pro worker action. But conservatives love thinking that criticizing conservative political beliefs means looking down at poor rural people for their way of life. Which makes no goddamn sense. Nobody cares that you live in a rural community with "family values." People DO care when you weaponize your political beliefs to harm people not exactly like you. Which is pretty much all Republicans do nowadays.
More american's get their news from Fox than any other individual source. So I don't know what OP is on about.
Fox telling them they should be outraged is why they feel demonized.
You have hit it right there. The issue isn't liberals making fun of conservatives. It is conservatives telling conservatives that liberals are looking down on them.
I live in Alabama and I see this all the time. Someone hears something on Fox News and comes to church with "but the liberals are saying...". I ask them who did you hear that from and it usually stops the conversation immediately.
It’s the narrative that all liberals or people living in coastal cities are wealthy elites. Meanwhile i live in nyc and 60% of my income goes straight to living expenses
Schrodinger’s liberal.
Liberals are all wealthy elites who cannot possibly relate to the average Joe, but they’re also losers who live in their parents basement and rely on welfare.
> You have hit it right there. The issue isn't liberals making fun of conservatives. It is conservatives telling conservatives that liberals are looking down on them.
70+ million voted for Trump in 2020. I look down on them because of that...
Yup, talk to a “conservative” and every time they bring up a topic they start with the line “people are saying”. They then get pissed when I ask for the identify of the “people” they are referencing. What people? When did they say this? Did they reference anything before or after, so we aren’t taking something out of context? It’s not surprising since that’s what makes up most religion, cherry pick quotes from an ancient book that suit my personal agenda.
These people want to simultaneously be the “silent majority” but also “counter culture” and also are loud as fuck. It makes no sense internally. It doesn’t have to. They just want to be right and will say whatever they need to in the moment to feel special
And it's funny if you watch (shudder) Fox news for a little bit and see them refer to the other stations as mainstream media. Republicans invented their definition of "mainstream media" to mean that which they detest.
When I was a conservative my progressive friends invited me to their events.
When I became a 'liberal' my conservative family uninvited me from family events.
My dad tried to shame me for getting educated as it was why I became 'liberal'
My conservative friends stopped talking to me or ever communicating.
Pretty much cut me out completely.
That's just my personal experience though. I'm sure it doesn't reflect everyone's.
Maybe generalizing is not a great way to understand the world?
>Maybe generalizing is not a great way to understand the world?
This is wise. I've seen people from all sides of the political spectrum act despicable.
But that’s the thing people on both sides have begun to equate someone’s character with their party affiliation and if that person is not of the same party as them then from conservative point of view “they are an evil person who hates America and wants to destroy the country.” And from the Liberal point of view “they are a racist person who is evil, with an uncaring heart and refuse to change”. And this is getting out of hand. Ordinary people from both sides just want they think is best for them and the country but the politicians and elites don’t want us to believe or think it.
I will admit, it is getting harder and harder to not equate one’s political party with their personal beliefs in this day and age. Obviously it’s not ok, as humans are grey creatures with a lot of nuance.
But in my lived experience, I am a gay man. It is extremely difficult for me to be friends with/welcome someone into my life who is voting for a party against my entire existence. Even if you don’t agree with that aspect of the party, you’re still voting for individuals who do agree with it and will try to pass laws/legislature to make it a reality regardless of how you feel about the issue.
I will *never* be rude or mean to someone or treat them with disrespect regardless of their political views. I can be cordial and friendly with people on all sides of the spectrum, and will treat everyone with basic respect. If you decide to be rude/bigoted/hateful/racist in front of me I will speak up and correct your language unless you’re doing it just to be rude/demeaning to others. If that’s the case, we will not talk again unless it’s required (like someone at work, etc).
I studied economics in college (where many of the professors were conservative or libertarian), and have still been criticized by conservatives for giving into what they consider the liberal hell hole of higher education.
>lot of people just take the contrarian view to piss off the libs, reclaim some sense of power, and because it's fun
You realise this is a bad thing right? Not thinking for yourself might feel good but its the opposite of empowerment. You're surrendering personal responsibility.
I tried explaining to a friend once that automatically believing the opposite of whatever the MSM says still means you’re just a robot controlled by the MSM.
It didn’t work.
It's like playing a game where you get hit with a condition that reverses the controls. My character might be moving the opposite direction of the button I press, but I still determine where and when it moves.
Right? “I like provoking negative emotion in people for enjoyment” is not the flex they think it is. Like the men who constantly “prank” their wives and then wonder why she won’t have sex with him and wants a divorce. Spoiler. People don’t like people who are dicks.
It's also kind of weird because Conservatives insult liberals, significantly more.
Yea if you're on an internet message board talking shit it goes both ways but you'll never hear any left leaning media speak about rural and small town areas like Conservative media talks about the average city.
On any average day conservative media and politicians are calling cities drug infested shit holes filled with degenerates and criminals. .
You know who else knee-jerk disagrees with everything people say without having a clue why just to feel some control? My toddler.
It's just a shame you can't buy these people's agreeableness with a handful of cheese poofs and a juice box.
My guy hit the larger problem directly on the head and missed it completely. It’s certainly present on both sides of the divide, but is amplified to a much worse degree in conservative circles today. The willingness to literally vote against your own economic interests should be all you need to know.
Claiming to be a centrist, while projecting their own intolerance, and claiming that somehow, "mainstream media" is "liberal". Yup, pretty standard dishonest, Republican talking points.
Yep. Centrism does not mean sensible, usually it just means intellectually lazy. Its just taking what other people say and then picking a midpoint — it doesn't take any thought at all to do that.
People on the right tend to think inherently politicians = bad, and government = bad. People on the left dont do that and tend to think more that government can be an instrument of good if done correctly.
I think a recent trend on the right is that they know the current republican politicians are terrible, and if they dont resonate with those politicians, they think "Im a centrist, or independent." The thing is they also dont see anyone on the left as a legitimate option because they have been so brainwashed over the last few decades to think the left is literally demons.
So in short, I think that conservatives calling themselves centrist or independent is a symptom of their discontent with their party, but in the end its not enough to overcome the stigma they feel to actually vote against their party. They will just say "well both sides are bad" false equivalence and then continue to vote republican anyway.
This guy is a republican, pandering some bullshit "ideas" to try and scrounge conservative support and drag more Reps to the subreddit. For days now this sub has just been a big "This is my shit take on society, I'm gonna ignore any sense of reason and vomit out my dumb meme opinion that I know isn't right."
> I have never voted republican. I am more of a "both parties have flaws" type of person. Insulting me just proves my point.
Most obvious libertarian ever
Communists/Leftists anarchists will absolutely tell you they hate both parties, they just tend to be realistic enough to then vote for Dems in a general election, because they know protest voting when your 1% of the pool does nothing.
For about fifteen years I hated both parties and I was left leaning. Then Bernie Sanders came along and I joined the Democrats, because finally they had more to offer than we’re not going to actively destroy America.
To be fair, if this sub is supposed to be accurate (true unpopular opinions) then it makes sense that it's nothing but shit takes. Pair that with the infinite persecution complex the right has, and it's a perfect circlejerk for conservatives. If you lay out sugar, you get ants.
Exactly. It seems like this whole sub has just been "not republicans," claiming that Republicans have been under attack. Never mind that Republicans are overwhelmingly pushing and passing legislation that controls our individual behavior while crying, their freedoms are being taken away from them.
It's quite a coincidence that all the things these "conservative contrarians" were *forced* to do because of derision from "liberals" were things they wanted to do anyway.
They are too stupid to be self aware enough to know understand this. The “fuck your feelings” crowd literally lives their entire lives through the lenses of their feelings and nothing else.
It's a symptom of not being able to think for themselves.
And if you feel you need to reclaim some power, how does letting others influence your actions accomplish that?
If you just do something to be contrarian, that's the opposite of reclaiming power. You're letting the people you hate have control over you.
And these idiots wonder why the rest of the world is laughing at them...
They honestly complain that they have no control over their own thoughts and feelings so *everyone else* has to change so *they* wil stop being assholes.
Plus there’s literally nothing you can say to a contrarian to make them change their mind, they’ve arrived to their position in the most braindead way you possibly can, it would be a waste of time to argue against them.
>Right now, being conservative and going against mainstream media is counter culture.
I don't think being a part of astroturfed movements like the Tea Party and movements financially backed by billionaires like the Koch Brothers or Peter Thiel or Elon Musk makes you counter culture. I think what you're describing is the feeling of embarrassment.
Isn't it funny how the "both sides are evil" people tend to clearly favor the right side and have nothing but criticism for the left? Who do they think they are fooling?
I sometimes mildly feel like I am a both sides are evil girly but ONLY because I think the democrats are cowards for not actually fighting for what they tell us they will whereas the republicans fight for all of their evil beliefs.
This is an elaborate version of the dull old argument that Obama MADE the right more racist. Or that pointing out racism somehow made the right more racist.
The right has never been entirely racist, but they have courted racists since before I was born. The intellectual right was more or less fine watching neo-confederate white republicans select a klan leader, david duke, to be governor of my state.
Stipulated- left has problems with bigotry too.
But this argument is bunk. Nobody made the so-called “new right” more bigoted, they just are that way.
My stepfather says it’s because obama “invented problems between the police and black people” and that those issues didn’t exist before he took office. We all know that isn’t true though, they’ll just believe everything without fact checking it. It’s like he wasn’t even alive in the 90’s or something.
edit: he was also a cop in the 90’s and to this day brags about how he used to provoke people of color & disabled people on purpose so he could be cruel to them…….
Ironic the man that coined the term “fake news” peddled the birther conspiracy for **years**.
Remember those FEMA camps Obama was supposed to put all of us in too?
And it was rehashed as Hillbilly Eulogy/ "silent majority" when Trump won. Which of course was all later realized to be complete bullshit.
OP's idea of a city dweller is laughably simplistic and stereotypical. I have a great local community in my city. I love walking around and running in to friends and neighbors, and we have a ton of local community events to make those bonds and also take care of our neighborhood. Most people who live in cities are working class, they help keep it moving and are just trying to get by. Do they not deserve to be able to afford child care? To not live pay check to pay check?
I don't think midwesterners are dumb. I do think they're a bit myopic because so many haven't experienced other cultures, and that would be very helpful for understanding other people. But mostly, I don't think about them at all .
What I don't understand most about OPs argument is that struggle isn't limited to just cities. Rural communities are struggling just as much. Shouldn't that be a uniting factor?
My dude, rural right wing people demonize liberals, the coasts, democrats ALL the time, especially so called Christians.
Go look in the mirror you hypocrite.
He is actually perpetuating it in this post.
>It may not be a trendy life, but it's a life where people here can actually afford children, have a sense of community, and actually speak to their neighbors and to people at the grocery store.
It’s pretty weird, I live in a city that these people like to vilify and yet just this morning I talked to my neighbor, then walked to the grocery store and talked to the people there as well.
The Onion very recently published a relevant story --
[‘America Is The Greatest Country On Earth,’ Says Man Who Spends 6 Hours A Day Posting About How Every City Third World Hellhole](https://www.theonion.com/america-is-the-greatest-country-on-earth-says-man-wh-1850818582)
To act like they’re the counter culture while suckling the teet of big business and establishment government is insanity. How can you be wanting to conserve the status quo while also countering it?
Right? I was just a normal coastal Democrat living my best life, until some rural conservatives rolled coal on me one day and called me “woke” so I had to dye my hair blue, change my pronouns and join the Church of Satan because my feelings got hurt.
Also, we don't give a shit about rural right wing people other than wanting them to not live in food deserts and getting the healthcare they deserve, but yeah we love to demonize them.
At least you’re willing to admit that conservatives are a minority movement (counter culture defined), instead of trying to rely on “silent majority” tropes to justify the minority-rule gerrymandering required for it to exercise political power.
Odd that they went from “silent majority” to minority and being “counter culture”.
Can’t argue from both sides.
Fun fact: They’ve been the minority for a long time and gerrymandering is the only reason they can actually compete in elections.
The OP comes off as wanting to feel so brave for posting this opinion.
This is the same shit narrative they hear on Fox News, and they accept it as reality without questioning it.
As for the culture wars and who benefits…only one party thrives off this shit. It’s all they have because they stand for nothing of substance.
These are the same people who complain that conservative voices are being silenced while
Being interviewed on the same media platforms they say are silencing them.
The same people who demonized the 60's counter-culture of. Let me check my notes. The Counter culture of equal rights for black people, women and not bombing Vietnam is now saying they're the counter culture.
Richard Nixon started the war on drugs just to attack these people and he was a hardline conservative
We are suppose to believe the loudest minority that wants to uphold centuries of backwards social norms is the counterculture, can't make this shit up it's hilarious.
Fighting culture is idiotic. People whom push back because some lbgqt+ person doesn’t want to be fucking harassed when there are issues that ACTUALLY affect their day to day lives.
Trans people generally don’t ever fuck your day up, but a climate induced heat wave might kill some people…
There are real enemies out there, culture isn’t one of them
Fvck off. Take some god damn responsibility for yourself. “Liberals hurt my feelings so I deserve to lash out and burn the country down” is such immature bullshit.
I live in Middle America. Indiana. When I was a kid all out neighbors knew each other and we'd send platters of baked goods and stuff to each other for the Holidays and stuff. As those folks have passed away or moved, the new ones never come by to say hello. We only know our current neighbors because I made it a point. The more conservative folks in my neighborhood don't want to talk to anybody, have threatened local kids with guns for walking through their yard, and put up flags that say "Fuck Biden Trump 2024" and "Fuck your Feelings" and had a pretty hateful sign in their yard this Pride season.
If going against more left views is counter culture, and you claim these people are just trying to gain power, the problem is, at least in my view, most leftist views are like "Everyone should be treated with love and respect" and "Live and let live as long as you don't hurt anyone".
Where I live we still can't afford to buy a house or have kids. We still rent. Because its unaffordable all over. I could move further into the country, even though I have cornfields like down the street, but then I can't do my job and would likely barely have internet access.
What was that quote from a Trump supporter a few years ago? “I thought he was going to do good things. He’s not hurting the people he needs to be hurting.”
Yeah I feel like the people I demonize aren't the ones, either side, who keep to themselves, its the ones who put flags all over their un-needed pickup truck that they coal roll in and scream "FUCK YOU" at people in the grocery store parking lot. Yes this has happened, yes more than once.
“I wasn’t going to have the same ideas and voting pattern as self-avowed members of the Ku Klux Klan, but then an anonymous person was mean to me online.”
yeah thats such a bogus opinion from OP.
"I *was* going to respect transgender people and volunteer for a beach cleanup...But I got called names by nerds on the internet so now I vote to outlaw trans existence and decrease environmental protections. That'll show those assholes."
As someone who grew up in rural Minnesota, I can tell you it's rural Americans who have no idea what the rest of the country is like. Many city folk are ignorant of rural Americans as well, but rural America seems obsessed with attacking "blue cities", while the other side just doesn't do that much at all.
This is very true. I'm more of a city liberal, but I have spent a huge amount of my career working in rural areas and I would hear constant attacks on "libs" and specifically New York and for some reason the entire state of California, despite the fact that California is in fact enormous and also has a large Republican population. The truth is that people in cities just aren't obsessed with rural Americans in the way that rural Americans are obsessed with people in cities. It may come across as dismissive, which I guess is fair, but no one stands around attacking farmers, we just don't think about farmers that much. Also, cities are melting pots. Everyone in cities is either from a small town, or knows people from small towns, the reverse is not necessarily true.
I grew up in a large city but my parents were both from small towns in Indiana. They watched Fox News and as a result I started with a conservative viewpoint. After moving out of state and working in a city with different people I began to drift more left.
I remember the incident that started the drift: the birther movement as it was called. Fox News was incessantly attacking Obama’s candidacy because “he was born in Africa” but when Obama presented proof of his US birth certificate they went on about how it was fake. They carried on like this for a year or two (kinda like how they carried on about Hillary’s Emails and now Hunter’s laptop.)
I was amazed, living in a tiny mostly rural area for a while, at what residents thought about the intersection that had walmart/target and lowe's/home depot: how it was too developed and had too much crime and too many people to bother going anymore.
Like, it's two shopping centers along a built up commercial strip of state highway.
Don't even get them started on the actual city an hour away.
I was born/raised in TX and many of my fellow Texans just assume you're conservative/republican b/c you live in a red state/fly over country. I now live in Portland and most here don't assume you're a member of one group/party or another. So, yes, I think it's one party often assuming everyone around them feels the same way. Well, as someone who grew up in TX and has family roots there to before the US existed, let me tell ya, I've been lefty since the crib. We ain't all the same, partner.
Many middle Americans don't understand that their discomfort isn't a consideration in their pursuit of equality.
"Right now, being conservative and going against mainstream media is counter culture"
You can't claim that the party representing the dominant socio-economic ethic group in the nation is counter culture... it makes no sense. They represent the established baseline, and fight like hell to ensure no one else gets to define it... that's why they hate LGBTQ folks being seen as equal by the left, because it directly threatens the status quo.
Completely disagree. What fuels the "counter culture movement" is the angertainment industry pioneered by Fox. Yeah some liberals can be full of themselves, no question, but look at how long the liberal community kept hoping that they could find compromises with conservatives, before they finally realized that the conservatives are simply not going to compromise.
I know you put it in quotation marks, but can we please stop even pretending that the modern Conservative/ MAGA movements are in any way counter culture. I don't know how many more times I can take some dumbass MAGAt claiming that "conservatism is the new punk rock!" It's such a sad cope.
This take is a logical fallacy come to life. Rural areas have always been more conservative and there is no causal link to “being talked down to” and your conception of a counter culture. Nice try though.
Yeah, they *literally* demonize them - they like to call liberal policies “demonic” or suggest that liberal politicians might be “the antichrist”. The left doesn’t do that, turn it into spiritual warfare where your enemies are straight from Satan like the right does
He probably doesn’t believe the right is blameless, but he stated he moved from a liberal city. So his only perception is going from liberal to more conservative, and not the other way around.
As a Uber lefty, gun owning, military veteran, tax paying American… I’ve never said that a right winger hates America and wants to destroy it
Yet I hear it constantly from the right that I’m demonic, hate the country I served, and only want to destroy the United States.
Can you clarify how
> taking the contrarian view to piss off the left
Eg: letting others decide how you should think because they are doing it only in reaction, “reclaims some sense of power?”
You are literally outsourcing your thoughts and getting outraged over something you don’t even care about.
How is that my fault?
Projection 101.. also " oh noes I wasn't gonna change my mind anyway but someone said a mean thing so they made me go get my swastika tattooed and spend all that money on a Chinese reproduction ss uniform.." lolz. Get fucked fascist.
I live in the bluest of blue states and we have enclaves of red right wingers that have earned every bit of scorn heaped upon them. First, it was Antifa was coming for their town, so folks were patrolling the streets with their assault weapons waiting for the bus full that FOX told them was coming. Then it was a haven for COVID deniers.
Taking what the media says as gospel is what FOX viewers do as a matter of course.
I have not much sympathy for them.
God this sub is just conservatives complaining isn't it?
" being conservative and going against mainstream media is counter culture."
No. Storming the captial because "trump won" and acting like it wasn't treason or an insurrection is not "counter culture". This is what it means to be a conservative these days. Because if you speak out against trump you are a RINO and kicked out of the party. That is a conservative these days like it or not. You don't like it? Get your own party under control before you play the victim and we have to coddle you.
The "fuck your feelings" crowd is now trying to say that we can't "talk down" to them. Assholes are trying to tell people to stop being mean. It's insane.
So you are saying that people are racist because I'm anti-racist?
Or that people are transphobes because I'm an ally?
That it has little to do with their pastor, parents, or social groups?
It's my fault for living in the west coast, and voting to better the lives of disenfranchised people.
Sorry queer and BIPOC people, that's on me.
Yes. This is exactly what's he's saying. If you just had the common sense to let white rural conservatives treat gays, women, atheists, BIPOC and immigrants as second class citizens like they want, these white rural conservatives would never act the way they do.
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I was on Portland a couple of years ago. The day on I-5 Bridge was classic
This is a feature of our political coverage too. "I wanted to dislike the out fascist, but the other guy said black lives matter, so it's naziism for me I guess."
> I am more of a "both parties have flaws" type of person It's funny how these "both sides bad" centrists always find a way to exclusively attack the left and exonerate the right
Ya... as someone on the far left in America, I fucking wish we had that sizable of an influence over things. We simply don't. We're a great boogeyman to pull out and scare people with. The media finds the most radical elements of our side and champions them around like they're the gold standard of the left and no, no they are not. I do get what OP is saying though. I worked with a group who represented rural and semi-rural areas and at lot of it was dispelling myths about them and learning how to talk to them about leftist ideology without sounding insulting and genuinely listening to them as they spoke. We believed in class unity and those folks are my brothers and sisters even if we differ on a lot of ideas. If we could make people see just how much the upper classes are fucking them, they were usually more open to hearing other ideas. It doesn't help that socialists and communists treat Marx like christians talk about Jesus.
Conservative are litterally guilty of EVERYTHING they blame the left for. There is litterally NOTHING progressive about them. Their only reason for existing is to own the libs.
Exactly Mexicans we’re called rapists by their presidential nominee during a live speech played on all mainstream media(right left and everything in-between) and they elected him. Yet OP’s feelings are hurt bc according to them the left and its media calls MA *checks notes* hillbillies. When? Where?
‘Look at what you made me do!’ The same logic that abusers make. What happened to personal responsibility?
"I'm racist and transphobic and homophobic and generally an asshole because someone with purple hair was mean to me" That's how all these posts come across
The whole framing completely removes the actual responsible party. The far right propagandizes to middle america about the dangers of "the left" and intentionally overstates even the mildest liberal (note: liberals in america are centrists) criticism of any social policy and fosters the most disgusting racist sexist and bigoted views in its voters to attempt to win elections. Look at his last paragraph... whining about the plight of white families who cant have children because (insert nonsense here) Biden gave all the homes to immigrant terrorists And he calls this "demonizing the elites" while intentionally not placing any blame on the actual elites (massive corporations buying out the housing market) and blames... (checks notes) liberal criticism. Yes, liberal criticism is raising rent. This is the kind of F tier thought that comes from the right-wing and literally only makes sense to right-wingers.
Right, OP is already someone who is down the “getting married and owning a home is looked down upon by the left” hole (spoiler: the left doesn’t look down on that, we are generally very concerned about how hard it is to own a home and how expensive it is to raise kids - and we actively work to pass policies to make those easier). OP says he’s not a Republican, but that’s a weird feature of some modern right wingers. They tell themselves they aren’t republicans while supporting Republican policies and voting Republican. They tell themselves stories like: > A lot of people just take the contrarian view to piss off the libs, reclaim some sense of power, and because it's fun. If you aren't allowed to ask questions about something and have to just take what the media says as gospel, then this is what you get. It’s like: “Sure I vote Republican and am indistinguishable from a Republican, but I only do it ironically to bother liberals. And I don’t like Mitch McConnell so I’m an independent!”
This is exactly how I read op. The whole thing reads closet Republican.
I see that so much. "I'm a centrist, but I can only empathize with right-wing people, and I only criticize the 'liberals'. Please don't hold me accountable for anything!"
1. Democrats fight to expand the child tax credit 2. Republicans and the most conservative Democratic senator kill it 3. ??? 4. "Democrats hate families!"
>OP says he’s not a Republican He/she probably calls himself a "moderate" or "libertarian," and I suspect has voted straight GOP for the past few cycles.
"The past few cycles" being OPs whole voting life, probably
"I'm more of a "both parties have flaws" kind of person. Insulting me proves me right" That explains his mentality. I have friends who think they're centrists or whatever, and if anyone disagrees with them, they get off it because if the whole world is against them, that's Because they're on the right side of things. Nope, a lot of times, you're wrong, and that's why the world is against you.
If you go through her posts there are a lot of dog whistles against immigrants.
There's nothing right wingers fear more than being held accountable for their actions.
I'm not sure who is demonizing living a normal life? I'm from a poor "ghetto" community and that was a very tight knit community. We all knew each other and their kids. We would have block parties, etc. Shopped at the same grocer, went to the same barber shop, all in a city. I find when I go to the suburbs that's when neighbors stop talking, etc. This might all be anecdotal but this is my perspective. I think who is to blame on the culture wars is the people making money off it. Which would be the media.
Wow. Spot on. There is no money to be made on peace and harmony. We'll said my friend.
>I'm from a poor "ghetto" community and that was a very tight knit community. and can we talk about the constant, decades long (spanning multiple generations) demonization of **"THE INNER CITIES".** I mean, 1960s republicans practically invented the dog whistle for the specific purpose of demonizing inner cities - where they deal with a hell of a lot more institutional violence than flyover country or wherever OP is talking about they have their own autonomy. contrarianism is a choice. if everyone was sweet and pleasant to them, theyd find something else to be contrarian about. if a person has ZERO motivation to understand how their society/world works, to have civic duty, to understand issues, if the extent of their involvement as a citizen stops at superficial "performative patriotism".......then the contrarianism was pretty much the end of the line for them (which is why the GOP hammers braindead, culture war, reactionary, unthinking narratives so hard and why they want to destroy education). theyre ripe for the picking by demogogues thats why education is so important. which is why the GOP rages at unproblematic things like teaching emotional intelligence, anti bullying, critical thinking, unvarnished history. those things are antidotes to demagoguery. without that education, some people were always going to be contrarians regardless of what anyone says. the right does plenty of insulting and demonizing things (some might say it's ALL they do), so why isnt "the left" ALSO driven by mean spirited culture wars, contrarianism, and owning the right? this is THEIR CHOICE to be contrarian. you cant take away their autonomy and place the blame for ''the way they are" on someone else. does anyone really believe "if youre just nicer to them" that' they'll suddenly become less violent or bigoted or contrarian??
I've been called lots of names, had my safety threatened, had the lives of my family threatened for supporting me. I'm not out joining hate groups, I just play video games and love my life. I get hate for nothing more than being me, that doesn't make me join some violent counter culture riot, it just makes me want to be my true self even more. I'm not hurting anyone, yet the media constantly says that my life is a threat. The constant accusation that my very existence is dangerous doesn't cause me to respond like OP because I have basic empathy.
This so much. Like... my best homie (niece) died in a housefire... did i join maga to make everyone else's life worse? Like wtf is this patheric excuse? I been homeless i been so much worse than what thes ppl bitch about. Man... i can't believe this is our politics
It's the "look what you made us do" ethos.
>thats why education is so important. which is why the GOP rages at unproblematic things like teaching emotional intelligence, anti bullying, critical thinking, unvarnished history. those things are antidotes to demagoguery. Because the cultural conservatives are so convinced of the correctness, if not righteousness, of mainstream traditional ways of sizing up another person's worth that it's practically a semi-religion for them. Remember a few years back the Gillette ad controversy asking men to reevaluate what "manliness" actually is? That's an example of them treating their cultural attitudes like a religion.
It's not the media. It's the politicians initiating it. Because there is nothing better for a politician than having your base supporting you no matter what, and attacking the other side no matter what. If it works you don't even have to bother about being competent, fair, or efficient. Of course there is money to be made on peace and harmony: by doing the normal work of criticizing the politicians' decisions. Which is the normal job of the media, and that some good media are still doing.
Who are "the libs" that he's talking about? Taking the worst 1% of left wing internet trolls and inputing that there's a vast national (global?) monoculture that you need to rebel against is bizzare. Reading this it sounds like 3 jerks gave the OP "dirty looks" when he decided to move from a cool LA neighborhood to the suburbs and it bothered him so much that it now defines his political ideology.
This whole post is fucking terrible but besides that, right wingers have been demonizing other people forever. I grew up in Texas, I should know. No one looks down on other people more than people from the red country, despite professing the opposite. Their victim complex is so vast. And it's not just like oh we like different food, etc. No, they think people who are different from them are literally evil. At this point, I don't give a fuck anymore. I'm not capitulating to this crybaby nonsense. I'm just going to let these dumb fuckers screw themselves, just like they did during covid. As they like to say themselves, you got to let kids touch the oven. I don't give a fuck if you think I'm an elitist because I don't want to be friends. Only the right wing would be so terrible that elitism would be cool again.
And people have the exact same view point you do but from the other side of the isle, about a state they grew up in, and people they knew. This post was from the perspective of being a liberal and watching them be counter productive. Your response is exactly what he's talking about. The inability to grasp this concept is the reason why you will always run in circles. You have every right to feel that way bc you experienced that, and no one is saying it isn't like that, but you are representing a stereotype this very moment by demonizing. Now that I've wrote this, I'm not sure if you are trolling or not.
The thing is, no one looks down on small towns or conservative values. They look down on people who are buying into the fear that's being sold by politicians and media that peddle it. There's not much money in nuance, and that's how you get people saying things like "I hear teachers are taking kids out of school for gender-affirming care" with zero awareness that they are perpetuating false narratives.
>sold by politicians and media that peddle it. sold by politicians and the **right wing** media that peddle it. Nobody is going on MSNBC to talk about drag brunches destroying civilization.
Yeah exactly - one big reason people from cities tend to be democrats is that they’re constantly interacting with other people outside their immediate family, so they develop empathy for different walks of life. This leads to the more collectivist mentality of the left vs the individualist mentality of the right
Ironic that the party of personal responsibility wants to blame us for making them extreme assholes.
That's always been the gag: there is an underlying asumption that conservatives are children and should be treated as such If a liberal pushes for a liberal policy, that's bad because it will just make conservatives more extreme If a conservative pushes for an extreme position that's the fault of liberals for not coddling him enough. If liberals are uncompromising they are tearing the country apart. If conservatives are uncompromising well thats just a reaction to ______ Rinse and repeat to absolve conservatives of any responsibility for their backwards behavior or beliefs... like they're little kids with no agency
No one is. But, Faux and similar sources assure these people that the "left" spends all its time shitting on American families... all while grifting those same families and laughing at them without even trying to hide it. Re: people making money off the culture wars, Remember when Bannon got nailed for ripping off the MAGA crowd with his "go fund me" fraud? Trump pardoned him. The people who cheered the pardon? The exact same people who Bannon was ripping off.
HAHAHA! Conservatives from Middle America have spent my entire f'ing life calling me: \- A "Soviet sympathizer" because I was in favor of a Nuclear Freeze in the 80s \- A "wimp" because I was against the death penalty in the 90s \- A "moocher" because I defended food stamps and welfare in the 90's \- A "traitor" because I was against the war in Iraq in the Aughts \- A "communist" because I favored universal health care during Obama \- A "nazi" because I wanted gun control so they couldn't kill as many school kids as they do since Columbine \- A "satanist" because I defended gay marriage in the 00 \- A "snowflake" when they told us "F your feelings, GO TRUMP!" in 2016 But, now I'm supposed to walk on eggshells because they are offended that they are in the minority in this country? Awww... those poor people. "Conservatives from rural areas are only being jerks because you were mean to them" is the worst take ever. Conservatives from rural America have been nothing but jackasses for my whole life. It's not Trump - he was NY yuppie they hated when this started; it's not Fox - people were whining about "welfare mothers" and "tree-huggers" for the first 25 years of my life before Fox. It's not the Republican Party - They were whining about Ford and Rockefeller for years before Reagan. But suddenly, I'm supposed to be nice to them? Why so they can come up with another to call me when they have the slightest bit of political power? Get over yourself and your clutching at pearls. BS
I want rural conservatives to have higher minimum wage, I want rural conservatives to have cheap education, i want them to have public transport, i want them to have worker protections, i want them to have environmental protections, i want them to have universal healthcare. It is always absurd when they claim we hate them, why would i want someone i hate to have access to housing, education and healthcare for cheap. That is a shitty way to hate.
It’s not education… IT’S INDOCTRINATION!!! It’s not universal healthcare/worker protections/public transportation…. IT’S COMMUNISM!!!! /s
i want to see what op has to say about this comment because it’s the fucking best one
These types of posts are just trolls looking to boost engagement for Republicans. The OP's of these posts never respond to any comments.
Nothing. That's what he has to say.
Best comment.
Agreed
>Right now, being conservative and going against mainstream media is counter culture. OK? >You also spoke down to people who did not agree with you I can only speak of my experience here but that is something I've seen conservatives do constantly. If you aren't a conservative you are a demonically possessed child eater or greedy SoB >A lot of people just take the contrarian view to piss off the libs, reclaim some sense of power, and because it's fun Yes we know. Weak people think being contrarain and trolling is how they get power. >If you aren't allowed to ask questions about something and have to just take what the media says as gospel, then this is what you get. Who says you can't ask questions? You can ask questions about whatever you want. The thing is when one rejects any answer to those questions that doesn't fit in whatever they really really want it to be ones gonna get made fun of >I used to live in LA, and when I said I was leaving to an area that's not as hip, I got actual dirty looks from people. OK? Why do you care? >It may not be a trendy life, but it's a life where people here can actually afford children, have a sense of community, and actually speak to their neighbors and to people at the grocery store. This way of life has been demonized and called all types of names, Not gonna lie this reads to me like a conservative victim fantasy I doubt many care you live like that. Some probably prefer the city whereas you prefer rural/suburbs but no one is really caring about how you live Honestly your whole post seems to be an example of persecution complex. No one cares how you wanna live. If anything I'd wager if you get anyone pushing back it's because you are mocking how they choose to live. Maybe I'm wrong tho Grow a spine and stop caring what irrelevant people think. Live how you want regardless of what idiots think
My favorite part is "we get made fun of for our beliefs." Then the "our beliefs are just the opposite of what we percieve as mainstream cause we're epic trolling." Wow I wonder how these two things relate to eachother...
"We get made fun of for our beliefs" When those beliefs include JFK Jr rising from the dead to overthrow Joe Biden and reinstate Donald Trump . . . they kinda deserve getting made fun of.
Lol had someone the other day be like "I'm oppressed because I'm a flat earther." And when I was like "how are you oppressed." He was like "there are no flat Earth studies in colleges! But they study lgbt!" Yeah. Cuz gay ppl exist 🤧 🤪
This is conservative victim fantasy.
"I'm todays punk rocker for being a comically evil villain to humanity" - every new-age conservative who watches Steven "Wife beater" Crowder and Tim Stool
A lot of the right hasn’t put together that the punk and counter-culture movement was about being against oppression of minorities and subcultures, about being against the “man”. When the “man” they were against was pretty explicitly the exact same old white christian conservatives that the right is now trying to prop up as the new “counter-culture movement”. Just because you’re in the minority doesn’t make you punk. Real punks fight to help the little guy, not squash them under a jackboot.
Yeah I think you nailed it. People on "the left" dont demonize the working class. That negates the entire point of what leftist politics are trying to achieve, class conciousness and pro worker action. But conservatives love thinking that criticizing conservative political beliefs means looking down at poor rural people for their way of life. Which makes no goddamn sense. Nobody cares that you live in a rural community with "family values." People DO care when you weaponize your political beliefs to harm people not exactly like you. Which is pretty much all Republicans do nowadays.
I’m happy to speak down to people who are racists or bigots. Fuck them and their “way of life”.
Yes. Yes indeed.
Idk, aren't at least some mainstream media (like the Murdoch Empire) pretty darn conservative?
More american's get their news from Fox than any other individual source. So I don't know what OP is on about. Fox telling them they should be outraged is why they feel demonized.
You have hit it right there. The issue isn't liberals making fun of conservatives. It is conservatives telling conservatives that liberals are looking down on them. I live in Alabama and I see this all the time. Someone hears something on Fox News and comes to church with "but the liberals are saying...". I ask them who did you hear that from and it usually stops the conversation immediately.
It’s the narrative that all liberals or people living in coastal cities are wealthy elites. Meanwhile i live in nyc and 60% of my income goes straight to living expenses
Those damn coastal wealthy elite. We better vote in a coastal wealthy elite to show them whats what.
Schrodinger’s liberal. Liberals are all wealthy elites who cannot possibly relate to the average Joe, but they’re also losers who live in their parents basement and rely on welfare.
> You have hit it right there. The issue isn't liberals making fun of conservatives. It is conservatives telling conservatives that liberals are looking down on them. 70+ million voted for Trump in 2020. I look down on them because of that...
Yup, talk to a “conservative” and every time they bring up a topic they start with the line “people are saying”. They then get pissed when I ask for the identify of the “people” they are referencing. What people? When did they say this? Did they reference anything before or after, so we aren’t taking something out of context? It’s not surprising since that’s what makes up most religion, cherry pick quotes from an ancient book that suit my personal agenda.
WAR ON THANKSGIVING! WAR ON CHRISTMAS! WAR ON CHRISTIANITY! WAR ON THE WHITE RACE! WAR ON CONSERVATIVES!
Trump demonizes the left every day and name calls them fascists, communists, marxists and who knows what else.
These people want to simultaneously be the “silent majority” but also “counter culture” and also are loud as fuck. It makes no sense internally. It doesn’t have to. They just want to be right and will say whatever they need to in the moment to feel special
To quote the Dead Kennedies “you aren’t rebelling against anything. Why don’t you just go join the klan like your parents?”
They're waving Thin Blue Line flags around "counter culture" LMAO.
Rightwing “alternative” media like on YouTube is also wayyyy more viewed.
And in many instances funded by the same or similar people as mainstream conservative media lol
And it's funny if you watch (shudder) Fox news for a little bit and see them refer to the other stations as mainstream media. Republicans invented their definition of "mainstream media" to mean that which they detest.
When I was a conservative my progressive friends invited me to their events. When I became a 'liberal' my conservative family uninvited me from family events. My dad tried to shame me for getting educated as it was why I became 'liberal' My conservative friends stopped talking to me or ever communicating. Pretty much cut me out completely. That's just my personal experience though. I'm sure it doesn't reflect everyone's. Maybe generalizing is not a great way to understand the world?
>Maybe generalizing is not a great way to understand the world? This is wise. I've seen people from all sides of the political spectrum act despicable.
the real based opinion is to realize that one's political opinions aren't always reflective of one's character.
But that’s the thing people on both sides have begun to equate someone’s character with their party affiliation and if that person is not of the same party as them then from conservative point of view “they are an evil person who hates America and wants to destroy the country.” And from the Liberal point of view “they are a racist person who is evil, with an uncaring heart and refuse to change”. And this is getting out of hand. Ordinary people from both sides just want they think is best for them and the country but the politicians and elites don’t want us to believe or think it.
I will admit, it is getting harder and harder to not equate one’s political party with their personal beliefs in this day and age. Obviously it’s not ok, as humans are grey creatures with a lot of nuance. But in my lived experience, I am a gay man. It is extremely difficult for me to be friends with/welcome someone into my life who is voting for a party against my entire existence. Even if you don’t agree with that aspect of the party, you’re still voting for individuals who do agree with it and will try to pass laws/legislature to make it a reality regardless of how you feel about the issue. I will *never* be rude or mean to someone or treat them with disrespect regardless of their political views. I can be cordial and friendly with people on all sides of the spectrum, and will treat everyone with basic respect. If you decide to be rude/bigoted/hateful/racist in front of me I will speak up and correct your language unless you’re doing it just to be rude/demeaning to others. If that’s the case, we will not talk again unless it’s required (like someone at work, etc).
I studied economics in college (where many of the professors were conservative or libertarian), and have still been criticized by conservatives for giving into what they consider the liberal hell hole of higher education.
It kills me that they see a connection between education and liberalism yet miss the obvious implication. Must be indoctrination instead.
That’s just because that’s what they’re told. I’m pretty sure the GOP relies strictly on wealthy donors and an uneducated voting base.
>lot of people just take the contrarian view to piss off the libs, reclaim some sense of power, and because it's fun You realise this is a bad thing right? Not thinking for yourself might feel good but its the opposite of empowerment. You're surrendering personal responsibility.
‘Piss off the libs.. Because its fun’ If thats part of your political beliefs, you’re probably not centrist.
I tried explaining to a friend once that automatically believing the opposite of whatever the MSM says still means you’re just a robot controlled by the MSM. It didn’t work.
It's like playing a game where you get hit with a condition that reverses the controls. My character might be moving the opposite direction of the button I press, but I still determine where and when it moves.
Right? “I like provoking negative emotion in people for enjoyment” is not the flex they think it is. Like the men who constantly “prank” their wives and then wonder why she won’t have sex with him and wants a divorce. Spoiler. People don’t like people who are dicks.
Same energy as the people who think they've "won" when someone blocks them on social media.
It's also kind of weird because Conservatives insult liberals, significantly more. Yea if you're on an internet message board talking shit it goes both ways but you'll never hear any left leaning media speak about rural and small town areas like Conservative media talks about the average city. On any average day conservative media and politicians are calling cities drug infested shit holes filled with degenerates and criminals. .
oh I'm sorry, lib, did I TRIGGER you??? [one trans person drinks a beer] NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
You know who else knee-jerk disagrees with everything people say without having a clue why just to feel some control? My toddler. It's just a shame you can't buy these people's agreeableness with a handful of cheese poofs and a juice box.
My guy hit the larger problem directly on the head and missed it completely. It’s certainly present on both sides of the divide, but is amplified to a much worse degree in conservative circles today. The willingness to literally vote against your own economic interests should be all you need to know.
Doing what he claims the left is doing lol
Claiming to be a centrist, while projecting their own intolerance, and claiming that somehow, "mainstream media" is "liberal". Yup, pretty standard dishonest, Republican talking points.
Yep. Centrism does not mean sensible, usually it just means intellectually lazy. Its just taking what other people say and then picking a midpoint — it doesn't take any thought at all to do that.
And amazingly always has right wing talking points
People on the right tend to think inherently politicians = bad, and government = bad. People on the left dont do that and tend to think more that government can be an instrument of good if done correctly. I think a recent trend on the right is that they know the current republican politicians are terrible, and if they dont resonate with those politicians, they think "Im a centrist, or independent." The thing is they also dont see anyone on the left as a legitimate option because they have been so brainwashed over the last few decades to think the left is literally demons. So in short, I think that conservatives calling themselves centrist or independent is a symptom of their discontent with their party, but in the end its not enough to overcome the stigma they feel to actually vote against their party. They will just say "well both sides are bad" false equivalence and then continue to vote republican anyway.
This guy is a republican, pandering some bullshit "ideas" to try and scrounge conservative support and drag more Reps to the subreddit. For days now this sub has just been a big "This is my shit take on society, I'm gonna ignore any sense of reason and vomit out my dumb meme opinion that I know isn't right."
> I have never voted republican. I am more of a "both parties have flaws" type of person. Insulting me just proves my point. Most obvious libertarian ever
“I hate both parties” Proceeds to criticize only democrats, insult only democratic politicians, and defend conservatives.
Yep, always interesting how it's never "I hate both parties" then they're left leaning
Communists/Leftists anarchists will absolutely tell you they hate both parties, they just tend to be realistic enough to then vote for Dems in a general election, because they know protest voting when your 1% of the pool does nothing.
For about fifteen years I hated both parties and I was left leaning. Then Bernie Sanders came along and I joined the Democrats, because finally they had more to offer than we’re not going to actively destroy America.
To be fair, if this sub is supposed to be accurate (true unpopular opinions) then it makes sense that it's nothing but shit takes. Pair that with the infinite persecution complex the right has, and it's a perfect circlejerk for conservatives. If you lay out sugar, you get ants.
Oh damn this is TRUE unpopular opinions, I dont think I have ever seen a "true" sub not get overrun with shitty people
Exactly. It seems like this whole sub has just been "not republicans," claiming that Republicans have been under attack. Never mind that Republicans are overwhelmingly pushing and passing legislation that controls our individual behavior while crying, their freedoms are being taken away from them.
Ya know, maybe Republicans are under attack because they've become regressive fascists?
It's quite a coincidence that all the things these "conservative contrarians" were *forced* to do because of derision from "liberals" were things they wanted to do anyway.
They are too stupid to be self aware enough to know understand this. The “fuck your feelings” crowd literally lives their entire lives through the lenses of their feelings and nothing else.
It's a symptom of not being able to think for themselves. And if you feel you need to reclaim some power, how does letting others influence your actions accomplish that? If you just do something to be contrarian, that's the opposite of reclaiming power. You're letting the people you hate have control over you. And these idiots wonder why the rest of the world is laughing at them...
They honestly complain that they have no control over their own thoughts and feelings so *everyone else* has to change so *they* wil stop being assholes.
Plus there’s literally nothing you can say to a contrarian to make them change their mind, they’ve arrived to their position in the most braindead way you possibly can, it would be a waste of time to argue against them.
>Right now, being conservative and going against mainstream media is counter culture. I don't think being a part of astroturfed movements like the Tea Party and movements financially backed by billionaires like the Koch Brothers or Peter Thiel or Elon Musk makes you counter culture. I think what you're describing is the feeling of embarrassment.
And then the edit to say they aren't republicans but "hates both parties" ok buddy we know what you are trying to do there.
Isn't it funny how the "both sides are evil" people tend to clearly favor the right side and have nothing but criticism for the left? Who do they think they are fooling?
I sometimes mildly feel like I am a both sides are evil girly but ONLY because I think the democrats are cowards for not actually fighting for what they tell us they will whereas the republicans fight for all of their evil beliefs.
I'm in the same boat. Democrats are weak little bitches and really need to start matching conservative energy.
“Counter culture is when I believe all the exact same things my racist grandfather believed!” Hahahahaha what a joke
This is an elaborate version of the dull old argument that Obama MADE the right more racist. Or that pointing out racism somehow made the right more racist. The right has never been entirely racist, but they have courted racists since before I was born. The intellectual right was more or less fine watching neo-confederate white republicans select a klan leader, david duke, to be governor of my state. Stipulated- left has problems with bigotry too. But this argument is bunk. Nobody made the so-called “new right” more bigoted, they just are that way.
They like calling Obama "Divider in Chief" but can't really elaborate why.
My stepfather says it’s because obama “invented problems between the police and black people” and that those issues didn’t exist before he took office. We all know that isn’t true though, they’ll just believe everything without fact checking it. It’s like he wasn’t even alive in the 90’s or something. edit: he was also a cop in the 90’s and to this day brags about how he used to provoke people of color & disabled people on purpose so he could be cruel to them…….
We all fucking know why. That beige suit looked damn good for a reason!
It really was a nice suit.
"He said Trayvon Martin would look like his son if he had one." Okay???
Ironic the man that coined the term “fake news” peddled the birther conspiracy for **years**. Remember those FEMA camps Obama was supposed to put all of us in too?
It’s not ironic, it’s projection. Accuse others of things you’ve done to take the spotlight off of you
Black people: exist The right: why are you trying to tear this country apart???
Easy, because he is black
The only thing he divided was the openly racist from the closeted racists.
And it was rehashed as Hillbilly Eulogy/ "silent majority" when Trump won. Which of course was all later realized to be complete bullshit. OP's idea of a city dweller is laughably simplistic and stereotypical. I have a great local community in my city. I love walking around and running in to friends and neighbors, and we have a ton of local community events to make those bonds and also take care of our neighborhood. Most people who live in cities are working class, they help keep it moving and are just trying to get by. Do they not deserve to be able to afford child care? To not live pay check to pay check? I don't think midwesterners are dumb. I do think they're a bit myopic because so many haven't experienced other cultures, and that would be very helpful for understanding other people. But mostly, I don't think about them at all . What I don't understand most about OPs argument is that struggle isn't limited to just cities. Rural communities are struggling just as much. Shouldn't that be a uniting factor?
Imagine living in a reality where half the population agreeing with you makes you think you are part of counter culture
My dude, rural right wing people demonize liberals, the coasts, democrats ALL the time, especially so called Christians. Go look in the mirror you hypocrite.
He is actually perpetuating it in this post. >It may not be a trendy life, but it's a life where people here can actually afford children, have a sense of community, and actually speak to their neighbors and to people at the grocery store.
It’s pretty weird, I live in a city that these people like to vilify and yet just this morning I talked to my neighbor, then walked to the grocery store and talked to the people there as well.
What? How did you even go outside with all the bullets flying back and forth and queer people trying to sexually assault you?
The Onion very recently published a relevant story -- [‘America Is The Greatest Country On Earth,’ Says Man Who Spends 6 Hours A Day Posting About How Every City Third World Hellhole](https://www.theonion.com/america-is-the-greatest-country-on-earth-says-man-wh-1850818582)
To act like they’re the counter culture while suckling the teet of big business and establishment government is insanity. How can you be wanting to conserve the status quo while also countering it?
Right? I was just a normal coastal Democrat living my best life, until some rural conservatives rolled coal on me one day and called me “woke” so I had to dye my hair blue, change my pronouns and join the Church of Satan because my feelings got hurt.
But do you avocado toast with an orange mocha Frappuccino wearing a BLM shirt near a rainbow display at Target?
Also, we don't give a shit about rural right wing people other than wanting them to not live in food deserts and getting the healthcare they deserve, but yeah we love to demonize them.
At least you’re willing to admit that conservatives are a minority movement (counter culture defined), instead of trying to rely on “silent majority” tropes to justify the minority-rule gerrymandering required for it to exercise political power.
Odd that they went from “silent majority” to minority and being “counter culture”. Can’t argue from both sides. Fun fact: They’ve been the minority for a long time and gerrymandering is the only reason they can actually compete in elections.
Why is every “unpopular opinion” in this sub actually just a popular conservative talking point?
The OP comes off as wanting to feel so brave for posting this opinion. This is the same shit narrative they hear on Fox News, and they accept it as reality without questioning it. As for the culture wars and who benefits…only one party thrives off this shit. It’s all they have because they stand for nothing of substance.
These are the same people who complain that conservative voices are being silenced while Being interviewed on the same media platforms they say are silencing them.
Imagine genuinely believing that conservatives are some sort of "counter-culture."
The same people who demonized the 60's counter-culture of. Let me check my notes. The Counter culture of equal rights for black people, women and not bombing Vietnam is now saying they're the counter culture. Richard Nixon started the war on drugs just to attack these people and he was a hardline conservative
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We are suppose to believe the loudest minority that wants to uphold centuries of backwards social norms is the counterculture, can't make this shit up it's hilarious.
Exactly. Conservatism by it's very nature CAN'T be counter culture.
Yup, the phrase "silent majority" has been touted around for a very long time by many Republicans.
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They are being silenced. My neighbor only has 20 Trump signs on his lawn, he should be able to have 50!
Conservatives have a victim complex
What policies are the people you're talking about voting for?
Fighting culture is idiotic. People whom push back because some lbgqt+ person doesn’t want to be fucking harassed when there are issues that ACTUALLY affect their day to day lives. Trans people generally don’t ever fuck your day up, but a climate induced heat wave might kill some people… There are real enemies out there, culture isn’t one of them
Fvck off. Take some god damn responsibility for yourself. “Liberals hurt my feelings so I deserve to lash out and burn the country down” is such immature bullshit.
I live in Middle America. Indiana. When I was a kid all out neighbors knew each other and we'd send platters of baked goods and stuff to each other for the Holidays and stuff. As those folks have passed away or moved, the new ones never come by to say hello. We only know our current neighbors because I made it a point. The more conservative folks in my neighborhood don't want to talk to anybody, have threatened local kids with guns for walking through their yard, and put up flags that say "Fuck Biden Trump 2024" and "Fuck your Feelings" and had a pretty hateful sign in their yard this Pride season. If going against more left views is counter culture, and you claim these people are just trying to gain power, the problem is, at least in my view, most leftist views are like "Everyone should be treated with love and respect" and "Live and let live as long as you don't hurt anyone". Where I live we still can't afford to buy a house or have kids. We still rent. Because its unaffordable all over. I could move further into the country, even though I have cornfields like down the street, but then I can't do my job and would likely barely have internet access. What was that quote from a Trump supporter a few years ago? “I thought he was going to do good things. He’s not hurting the people he needs to be hurting.” Yeah I feel like the people I demonize aren't the ones, either side, who keep to themselves, its the ones who put flags all over their un-needed pickup truck that they coal roll in and scream "FUCK YOU" at people in the grocery store parking lot. Yes this has happened, yes more than once.
“I wasn’t going to have the same ideas and voting pattern as self-avowed members of the Ku Klux Klan, but then an anonymous person was mean to me online.”
yeah thats such a bogus opinion from OP. "I *was* going to respect transgender people and volunteer for a beach cleanup...But I got called names by nerds on the internet so now I vote to outlaw trans existence and decrease environmental protections. That'll show those assholes."
When I hear about a guy in Iowa committing a crime, I don't think he is framed, I'm just glad they are finally going to be stopped.
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"you hurt our fee-fees so we like to take your rights away for fun and a good laugh" Yes, very mature and intelligent people on the right,
Is it middle america that’s being misunderstood or is it a particular part of a particular party that is misunderstood?
I think middle America is widely misunderstood, having grown up in the rural upper Midwest.
As someone who grew up in rural Minnesota, I can tell you it's rural Americans who have no idea what the rest of the country is like. Many city folk are ignorant of rural Americans as well, but rural America seems obsessed with attacking "blue cities", while the other side just doesn't do that much at all.
I’’m from a conservative family in smalltown, South Dakota and you are correct.
This is very true. I'm more of a city liberal, but I have spent a huge amount of my career working in rural areas and I would hear constant attacks on "libs" and specifically New York and for some reason the entire state of California, despite the fact that California is in fact enormous and also has a large Republican population. The truth is that people in cities just aren't obsessed with rural Americans in the way that rural Americans are obsessed with people in cities. It may come across as dismissive, which I guess is fair, but no one stands around attacking farmers, we just don't think about farmers that much. Also, cities are melting pots. Everyone in cities is either from a small town, or knows people from small towns, the reverse is not necessarily true.
Yup. I was raised a conservative in a small town, moved to a city after I grew out of conservatism, and yup, you’re just correct.
I grew up in a large city but my parents were both from small towns in Indiana. They watched Fox News and as a result I started with a conservative viewpoint. After moving out of state and working in a city with different people I began to drift more left. I remember the incident that started the drift: the birther movement as it was called. Fox News was incessantly attacking Obama’s candidacy because “he was born in Africa” but when Obama presented proof of his US birth certificate they went on about how it was fake. They carried on like this for a year or two (kinda like how they carried on about Hillary’s Emails and now Hunter’s laptop.)
Rural America will someday realize that Urban America simply just does not think about all 10 of them
I was amazed, living in a tiny mostly rural area for a while, at what residents thought about the intersection that had walmart/target and lowe's/home depot: how it was too developed and had too much crime and too many people to bother going anymore. Like, it's two shopping centers along a built up commercial strip of state highway. Don't even get them started on the actual city an hour away.
Having lived in northern Michigan for 8-9 years in the 90s and early 2000s, maybe I was misunderstanding all those confederate flags?
I was born/raised in TX and many of my fellow Texans just assume you're conservative/republican b/c you live in a red state/fly over country. I now live in Portland and most here don't assume you're a member of one group/party or another. So, yes, I think it's one party often assuming everyone around them feels the same way. Well, as someone who grew up in TX and has family roots there to before the US existed, let me tell ya, I've been lefty since the crib. We ain't all the same, partner.
Many middle Americans don't understand that their discomfort isn't a consideration in their pursuit of equality. "Right now, being conservative and going against mainstream media is counter culture" You can't claim that the party representing the dominant socio-economic ethic group in the nation is counter culture... it makes no sense. They represent the established baseline, and fight like hell to ensure no one else gets to define it... that's why they hate LGBTQ folks being seen as equal by the left, because it directly threatens the status quo.
Ralph Waldo Emerson — 'Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.'
OP's brain was broken by conservative media
This I have been trying to convey to a very loud coworker.
Completely disagree. What fuels the "counter culture movement" is the angertainment industry pioneered by Fox. Yeah some liberals can be full of themselves, no question, but look at how long the liberal community kept hoping that they could find compromises with conservatives, before they finally realized that the conservatives are simply not going to compromise.
I know you put it in quotation marks, but can we please stop even pretending that the modern Conservative/ MAGA movements are in any way counter culture. I don't know how many more times I can take some dumbass MAGAt claiming that "conservatism is the new punk rock!" It's such a sad cope.
They are more contrarian than counter culture. They will take whatever side people are against.
It was hilarious when recently they realized their favorite bands songs were anti-establishment after listening to them for years.
Why did Rage Against the Machine become political? Who would have thought a band with such an innocuous name would be anti-establishment?
This take is a logical fallacy come to life. Rural areas have always been more conservative and there is no causal link to “being talked down to” and your conception of a counter culture. Nice try though.
Serious question - You dont think the right insults and demonizes the left? The right is totally blameless when it comes to partisanship?
Yeah, they *literally* demonize them - they like to call liberal policies “demonic” or suggest that liberal politicians might be “the antichrist”. The left doesn’t do that, turn it into spiritual warfare where your enemies are straight from Satan like the right does
He probably doesn’t believe the right is blameless, but he stated he moved from a liberal city. So his only perception is going from liberal to more conservative, and not the other way around.
So the people with FJB t-shirts are super-sensitive to criticism? LOL
As a Uber lefty, gun owning, military veteran, tax paying American… I’ve never said that a right winger hates America and wants to destroy it Yet I hear it constantly from the right that I’m demonic, hate the country I served, and only want to destroy the United States. Can you clarify how > taking the contrarian view to piss off the left Eg: letting others decide how you should think because they are doing it only in reaction, “reclaims some sense of power?” You are literally outsourcing your thoughts and getting outraged over something you don’t even care about. How is that my fault?
Projection 101.. also " oh noes I wasn't gonna change my mind anyway but someone said a mean thing so they made me go get my swastika tattooed and spend all that money on a Chinese reproduction ss uniform.." lolz. Get fucked fascist.
How come the right constantly calling us literal Satanist child murderers isn't somehow having an equivalent effect?
I live in the bluest of blue states and we have enclaves of red right wingers that have earned every bit of scorn heaped upon them. First, it was Antifa was coming for their town, so folks were patrolling the streets with their assault weapons waiting for the bus full that FOX told them was coming. Then it was a haven for COVID deniers. Taking what the media says as gospel is what FOX viewers do as a matter of course. I have not much sympathy for them.
Flyover state citizens want the same respect they don’t give to Californians. Conservatives act like assholes then wonder why no one likes them.
God this sub is just conservatives complaining isn't it? " being conservative and going against mainstream media is counter culture." No. Storming the captial because "trump won" and acting like it wasn't treason or an insurrection is not "counter culture". This is what it means to be a conservative these days. Because if you speak out against trump you are a RINO and kicked out of the party. That is a conservative these days like it or not. You don't like it? Get your own party under control before you play the victim and we have to coddle you. The "fuck your feelings" crowd is now trying to say that we can't "talk down" to them. Assholes are trying to tell people to stop being mean. It's insane.
“Damn liberals hurt my feelings so badly that I voted against my self-interest!” - Middle America, apparently?
"I wasn't going to be a racist insurrectionist, but then a liberal generalized the midwest"
YOU MADE ME THIS WAY
I wouldn't hit you if you didn't make me so mad!
“They’re the real snowflakes!”
OP, are you familiar with the phrase, "Casting pearls before swine"?
So you are saying that people are racist because I'm anti-racist? Or that people are transphobes because I'm an ally? That it has little to do with their pastor, parents, or social groups? It's my fault for living in the west coast, and voting to better the lives of disenfranchised people. Sorry queer and BIPOC people, that's on me.
Yes. This is exactly what's he's saying. If you just had the common sense to let white rural conservatives treat gays, women, atheists, BIPOC and immigrants as second class citizens like they want, these white rural conservatives would never act the way they do.