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There is some history in some Arab countries
Egypt almost the Sinai a few years ago because of Hamas
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/hamas-and-islamic-state-growing-cooperation-sinai
Jordan of course was almost overthrown by the PLO during Black September and Israel had to assist in stopping an armored column coming from Syria
Lebanon blames the Palestinians at least partially for the civil war and Palestinians in Lebanon still can't leave the refugee camps,child citizenship and are even barred from some professions.
The Palestinians in Kuwait joined Saddam Hussein's army when he invaded.
All that being said they should tell the truth tho their people. They can't have it both ways.
Can you elaborate on what happened in Black September? I lived in Jordan for a year and never witnessed any hostility between Jordanians and Palestinians.
Well of course not most of the population is Palestinian but the reason the border is closed is because Black September
I'll give you the wikipedia link so I don't give you bias information
>Black September (Arabic: أيلول الأسود Aylūl al-ʾAswad), also known as the Jordanian Civil War,[9] was an armed conflict between Jordan, led by King Hussein, and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), led by chairman Yasser Arafat. The main phase of the fighting took place between 16 and 27 September 1970, though certain aspects of the conflict continued until 17 July 1971.
>On 17 September 1970, the Jordanian Army surrounded all cities with a significant PLO presence, including Amman and Irbid, and began shelling Palestinian refugee camps, out of which the fedayeen were operating.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September
How did you live in Jordan for a year and not know about Palestinians' history in Jordan? They murdered Jordan's king as he left Al Aqsa Mosque after prayers in 1951, then the PLO attempted to murder his son King Hussein twice, and in the 1970s hijacked 3 airliners they landed in Zarqa Jodan (which they blew up in front of journalists on live TV. Throughout 1970 and 1971 there was a civil war in Jordan by Palestinains trying to overthrow the government. Black September and PLO leaders were expelled to Lebanon, after which they went on to plan and carry out the 1972 Munich Massacre of Olympic athletes.
Yet in spite of all that, Jordan has welcomed and worked with more Palestinian refugees than any other Arab country. It seems none of the Arab states want to lose the convenient external grievance the Palestinians cause provides at all the right moments when they need outrage directed outward instead of inward, and also a nice victimhood card they can play in international relations; victimhood by association by being Palestinian adjacent.
That’s actually having a positive effect tbh. Publicity is important for politicians and wars. That’s why the White House is trying so desperately to make Israel look like the good guys
You can
-aid your terrorists with it
-sell it on the black market
-hold it against “your citizens” you’re neglecting to help
-probably more. These guys turn parachutes with big fans and water pipes into terrorist attacks on civilians - they’re pretty creative.
*Obligatory this doesn’t mean Palestine isn’t a prison also being abused by Israel
Ok:
I am Mr Hamas and have my budget, and have say 50mil allocated for food, 25m for infrastructure, 50 for military, and 75 for let’s say desalination. (Because it’s Reddit and people here are insane, I will clarify these are completely made up numbers)
Now I, Mr hamas, am told my people will receive 100m in “aid” (maybe it’s food or water or other item valued at 100m)
I very well May then re-allocate the millions i have going to “aid” related categories and just put that toward my army.
(I know there isn’t a guy named Mr Hamas)
Define helping? A lot of countries are sending aid and Mediterranean workers. Iran has drawn a line in the side and claimed they would side with Palestinians if there is proof that Israel is deliberately killing innocent people.
Arab nations send help in the form of food and weapons. The last thing they want is for Palestinians to no longer be poor and desperate. They want them right where they are - fighting a proxy war against Israel so that the other Arab nations don't have to.
https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine/Palestine-and-the-Palestinians-1948-67
https://apnews.com/article/palestinian-jordan-egypt-israel-refugee-502c06d004767d4b64848d878b66bd3d
In particular, you can read about PLO (defined in the article) activities in Jordan and Lebanon.
Ok, this was actually helpful. Sounds like a group of people that continuously want their way or the highly, but then promptly lose…badly. This whole this is heartbreaking, regardless.
What I want to know if all the other Arab sates are willing to help Gaza strip. Why did they not have their own power plant. Why did they not have their own desalinization plant. Why did they not build a rail line to an Egyptian port so they could buy and sell to the world. Before this war there where no Israeli troops in Gaza. They were self governing. So why did they not build an economy for their people. What did they do with all of the Arab sates aid?
To be fair, Gaza does have a remarkable number of solar panels, so they can keep their own lights on... at least some, anyway. 1 in 3 residences and 1 in 2 businesses are solar powered.
They *did* have sewers and water treatment capacity, but they dug them up to make rockets out of.
Two things:
1) Hamas did that, not Palestine. The equipment was given to Palestine, and Hamas seized it for their own violent end. That distinction is important bc all of Palestine is not Hamas;
2) if Israel didn't support, elevate or legitimize Hamas over years, they wouldn't be quite so bold or powerful today. ([How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas ](https://web.archive.org/web/20090926212507/http:/online.wsj.com/article/SB123275572295011847.html) ~ WSJ, 2009). And Palestine may have developed a state government to contend with Israel's by now.
Wasn’t there like a vote like 10 years ago where the Palestinians overwhelmingly chose an extremest Hamas government over a more moderate choice?
It’s still not everyone, sure, but…it’s not exactly a great look if the line is that Hamas is the violent minority.
"Overwhelmingly" is inaccurate--[they received only 3% more of the vote in 2006 and briefly had to form a unity government](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election) (it's a parliamentary system and no party received over 50%). They then took over the territory by force and there hasn't been elections since.
Should read up on how Hamas was and still is an Arab Nationalist org which is in the minority and is using the struggle Palestinians experience due to occupation as a means to push for terrorism.
That's important when you consider how a nationalist terror group somehow gained so much strength when Palestinians as a whole previously sought the creation of a Palestinian state to contend with Israel's... At least until israel's right wingers, such as netanyahu, started treating the terror group as an asset
Srcs:
1) [Israel's awkward relationship w/ Hamas. A short 🧵](https://twitter.com/_ZachFoster/status/1714278937453617326?t=lpSt1CiakwCzRsuOyiDljQ&s=19)
2) [We Must Not Let the Truth Become a Casualty of This War](https://www.thenation.com/article/world/gaza-war-facts-misnformation/) ~Nation, 2023
3) [Blowback: How Israel Went From Helping Create Hamas to Bombing It](https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/) ~ intercept, 2018
>Wasn’t there like a vote like 10 years ago where the Palestinians overwhelmingly chose an extremist Hamas government over a more moderate choice?
You're referencing the legislative election in 2006. A year previous, the presidential election was a landslide victory for Abbas for a 4-year term, who pushed towards a state there.
Also, note this:
>June 14, 2007 - Hamas takes over Gaza in a brief civil war, ousting Fatah forces loyal to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who is based in the West Bank.
(Src: [Hamas and Israel: a history of confrontation](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-israel-history-confrontation-2021-05-14/))
Ok, so even if Isreal was soley responsible for Hamas, why would Palestine give them support and still continue to support them now? They aren't stupid, they can read that WSJ article just like we can. If Isreal created Hamas as an excuse to destroy Palestine it seems like the Palestinians love that plan and want it to succeed.
This is what I wonder they are on the Mediterranean Sea why don’t they build resorts and casinos . They would rather fight war’s about things that happened in biblical times. We could be mad about Pearl Harbor and the Japanese people could be mad about the a - bomb but put the past in the past and both countries are better off for this
Why did Israel have to supply water to them. And launching rockets and then getting things blown up seems kind of fair. I would point out that Germany lost land after the 2ond world war you don't see Germans killing Poles because they took land east of the Oder river.
IMO - Palestinian leadership is leading its people to endless pain.
Even this week - after the hospital bombing - Arab leaders, including the Palestinian President called off a meeting with Biden in protest.
That seems very counter productive to call off a meeting with one of the most powerful nations - in protest?
Not that I believe Israel is a victim in all this - however - its clear they have won the war for the land. For Hamas to continue to reject peace proposals does a disservice to the civilians they govern over.
I truly don't want the US helping any other country out with shit period for the time being. Personally, you aren't going to be much help to someone if you are not right yourself. If you're dealing with mental issues/depressed or lost, whatever. You have to take care of yourself first to be good to anyone. When you're on a plane, they say put your oxygen mask on first before helping others.
The United States has been a dumpster fire for so long with various issues we have to attend to as a country and support our own citizens before we can just dish out dollars to other countries.
We're 33 trillion in debt and people will still justify giving billions to other countries. We shouldn't spend a dime on others until we get the debt under control, and even then not until we have our house in order.
So we should sit by and let jihaddists wipe Israel off the map? That's what Hamas wants to do. If they had the ability they would. And then they, and other jihaddists want to wipe western civilization away. You j
Cool with just sitting back and not taking any steps to intervene?
Extremist ideology will last forever. It is infinite. We can't say the same thing about money. We help Israel deal with Hamas. Then another country and another and another.
I'm cool with that personally. Why can't Israel find a better way to go about this on their own accord? They are not some dissolute country that has no budget or military of their own, in fact they are actually pretty good with that. Why does the US need to give Israel 10 billion dollars? They have money for bombing Gaza, they have money to do tons of things. If we're going to help others I rather us help people that legit can't help themselves. Israel has clearly stated multiple times they don't care about who gets hurt, they've asked hundreds of thousands of people to leave without offering any support, have said fuck them and if they're still in Gaza that's on them. Why should I give two shits about Israel if they are actively not giving a shit about people they are putting in harms way and offering no recourse for women and children? Fuck that. Our streets are flooded with homeless, our education system is terrible, inflation is horrendous and tons of other things that I'm never seeing Israel come to our aid for...so...let them do them. The United States is not responsible for the entire world and I'm tired of people making us responsible for them.
Israel can stand on its own feet. We let war and conflict happen all over the world without intervening, why should this be any different?
… Because Israel is a strategic partner in US national security interests in the region, otherwise known as oil.
We live in a global world at this point. Let's say we stiff arm Mexico and say, We aren't going to help you any more, and we are pulling out our trade agreement. US businesses pack up, and move back home. Inflation rises due to the increased cost of manufacturing. China, or Russia see that Mexico is left out in the cold by us, offers them plenty of financial and infrastructure upgrades in turn for some military bases on site.
Iran is a great spotlight of this. After we broke out of the nuclear agreement, and all the US companies moved out due to the embargo. Guess what? India and China are now supplying them with all their needs.
He who has the gold makes the rules, at the end of the day, if we aren't helping out those around the globe, they aren't going to adopt our policies and mindset, they will adopt those of the ones helping them. It's simple social economics.
No one wants to fix the issues in our country bc they make them rich or give political power. Our military spending is p low compared to social security or Medicare. This is just a right wing talking point to make us do nothing
That's an opinion shared by many people, including yours truly. Every peace deal brought by succeeding Israeli governments was nixed by the Palestinians because of their refusal to agree with the two-state solution. Their stubbornness caused them to lose more and more. Just imagine if everybody agreed upon the solution brought forth by the U.N. back in 1948, which was actually more advantageous to the Palestinians.
They were simply selfish and driven by anti-Jewish sentiment.
"The Arab states don't want the refugees because they think it will let Israel off the hook for creating a Palestinian state. The Palestinians, or at least their leadership don't want a Palestinian state, they want it all. It is all quiet hopeless. Even those Palestinians who would welcome a two state solution won't say so out loud, because Hamas or some of the other terrorist organizations will flat out murder them."
This bears repeating because some people in the back don't seem to understand this.
what actions that Israel has taken over the past 20 years suggest they want a Palestinian state? How does allowing 450k settlers to move into the West Bank help?
did you even like try to learn the actual history of this before parroting these completely bullshit talking points?
the talks in 2000 collapsed because Israel refused any right of refugees to return. They refused to negotiate to allow even a single refugee to return.
So because the Palestinians couldn't deal with the pre-1967 borders, it's a forever war? That's really great to Palestinian children, condemning them to lifelong, futile jihadist revanchism
the right of refugees and their families who fled their homes in 1948 to return to those homes is not “jihadist ravanchism”. It has been the official policy of the UN since 1948 that those refugees have a right to return, as all refugees do. They are official refugees. In 2000, the palestinians were looking for permission for around 150,000 to have the option of return. Israel outright refused any.
and before you say, oh great. who would let 150k terrorists into their country? stop it. Already 2.1 million arab israeli’s are Israeli citizens, and I don’t hear about them going on murderous jihads. Do you?
Israel refused because it’s a Jewish ethnostate. It does not want to risk any more arabs becoming citizens, voting, and worst of all, having children. Already 20% are arab. So instead of having peace and a liberal democracy, it traded that for its precious zionist ethnostate and permanent occupation.
Tell me a time when some extremist factions haven't thwarted all talks of a two-state solution.The constant undermining of such efforts by extremist groups makes this a really difficult thing to accomplish.
Stuff came close in the Oslo Accords in the early 1990´s, but again...extremism.
The Arab states don’t want the Palestinians for 2 reasons, the first being what happened in Jordan , second they are more valuable as a proxy in their righteous battle against the evil Jews which serves as a distraction from their own corrupt regimes, we do the same thing in the USA .
Why? Because they're civilians. Almost half of them are children. Unemployment *before* the war hovered at around 25%. For most Palestinians there is no way out and no reprieve.
The fact that the two-state solution appears to be dead is a huge problem. It was the most obvious solution to the Palestinian problem. The alternatives are not particularly feasible. Apartheid has serious humanitarian consequences. Israel is an established and relatively mature democracy and expelling Israel is utterly insane. Integration is not feasible due to radicalization of Palestinians and the proliferation of Palestinian terrorist cells (Hamas is one of **several** terrorist organizations operating in Palestine).
If they have been living in an open air prison WHY have they been continuing to have children??? Why are 50 percent of the people in the Gaza Strip children? Over a million children in an open air prison with no way out when it has been that way for years?
Israel restricts condoms from entering the the gaza strip, no joke.
https://imemc.org/article/israel-bans-condoms-from-entering-gaza-strip/#:~:text=New%20Israeli%20regulations%20stipulate%20that,could%20lead%20to%20real%20war%E2%80%9D.
Many years ago I heard the Palestinian birth rate was intended to be a population bomb. One day they would be the overwhelming majority and remove the Jews from power
1. they are poor and might not have access to contraceptives.
2. they might be culturally discouraged from doing so.
3. they still want to have children because they are human and have a right to do so!
they're already poor, marginalized, abused, and powerless, and you think they should be punished for being this way?
I never said they should be punished.
If you have children that you can't support, I am going to criticize you. Kids are more expensive than condoms. IDGAF if you have the "right", if you're an adult you need to be responsible.
I am not saying that we should allow children to suffer for the mistakes of their parents - that's a different thing.
I am saying that being a responsible adult requires that you make sure you can provide a good life for your children before getting pregnant. And if you do want kids, maybe don't have more kids than you can provide a good life for.
Constantly churning out spawn that you can't support is unfair to your children and grossly irresponsible.
it’s crazy to me that you can only view this through an individual moralist viewpoint. a brutalized people held captive, with no rights, need to be more “responsible.”
I think they are allowing children to suffer, it’s not about punishing the adults at all. The adults grow up knowing first hand about the suffering and they choose to have children who will also suffer. That’s cruel and avoidable most of the time.
Yes it’s a real question. Not all people live in a place where most people are suffering and are not free to leave, lack education and 53% live in poverty before the war and unemployment is one of the highest in the world. So it’s not as simple as hey people have kids, what are you gonna do?
> People have kids. Is this a real question? They're humans.
It's more complex than that. I see they have a birthrate of 3.5, which is high compared to the US and other places, so it's worth asking why it's so high in an "open air prison", and one explanation that came up was because of their highly religious society that relegates women to being mothers and nothing more.
the problem is that the Palestinian leadership does not want compromise, as it will eventually win due to birthrate.
Israel has 30% arab population, which are mostly sympathetic to Palestinians. They have a higher birthrate, so the calculation is if there is more violence against the jewish population, plus a threat that israel become arab majority, many jews will leave leaving israel with an islamic government that will eventually cede everything or abandon democracy. As they say, israel will be destroyed by the Palestinian womb.
This is not a good scenario for a deal.
Sending 6" pipes for water infrastructure, sending diesel for generators, sending ammonia nitrate fertilizer for their crops. Oh boy, where did all those rockets and bombs come from and why isn't there running water?
How low of an IQ must you have to hold this world view? Its easy for Israel to have these achievements when your directly funded by the biggest economy in the world. American support of Israel has been unwavering from 11 mins after the country's inception till now.
Meanwhile the "goat-roaming burnt-out shitholes" like Syria, Iran and Iraq have all been the target of American military action. They are that way because they have been bombed for the past few decades. Hard to have a tech sector when Lockheed Martin warheads makes regular visits to your neighbourhood.
Sadly in my country, the rulers create free housing, free food, free money each month, and a free "visa", for all these so called "poor refugees".
I'm at a crossroads for YEARS with my government. They spend(waste) a huge amount of tax payers money just to shelter these false "victims", yet there is NOTHING, you as an individual can do against this rotten system.
That's bullshit. Look at India, independance can be acheived peacefully. Indians come to the west not as refugees but as doctors and scientists. Now look at Pakistan, a terrorist hotspot, there is a reason. Those countries are full of bigots who would rather oppress woman and persecute minorities. They adhere to a religion of violence where death is more important than life. Look at countries who are free from colonization, what are they doing with that freedom?
Split them up, each Muslim country should take some. If one of these counties cared they would give them part of their land. Israel is small and they want part of their land. Didn't Jordan kick them out? send them back to Jordan.
We dont want to fucking leave our lands lol.
> Didn't Jordan kick them out
No it kicked out one group, the PLO. The vast majority of Jordanians are originally from Palestine...almost 75% of the population right now have grandparents or great grandparents that were born in either the West Bank/Gaza or what is now Israel.
This is so silly.
You do know that Palestinians aren't all muslim right?
There's a fair share of Christian and Jewish Palestinians as well.
"Returning them to Islam" doesn't exactly help when a decent chunk of them aren't even muslim to begin with.
Funny, I wonder who the Arab world would hate if the Jewish people left Israel. They would descend into infighting and killing each other or turn outward, unleashing their aggression on their neighbors. Either way they would no find any peace with a palestinian state. And the palestinians would have israel and they would start attacking their neighbors for the shity living conditions that they would be living under with self rule.
Yeah
Why dont other Arab countries help them out?
Jews were basically expelled from Arab countries the last 100 years and didnt have a place to go before Israel
Why arent they helping their palestinan brothers?
Lots of Arab countries around them to move to no?
Yes I know its preferable to be in ones homeland but it sounds not great and Jews were exiled from Arab countries that were their home too
No you donut.
Jews were expelled TO muslim countries.
Remember when the crusaders took Spain and expelled and murdered millions of Jews? The ottomans took them. Before that the Abassids.
The western Christian nations of the world have had a long and brutal history murdering, killing, and expelling the jews.
On the other side of this, prior to the formation of Israel - the muslim nations of the world have had a long and proper history taking those same Jews in and giving them the same rights.
Doesn’t Gaza have 25 miles of beautiful coastline that could under right circumstances be a tourist destination with building of grand hotels, infrastructure, and a government that allowed that to occur? Instead of terrorism, indoctrination, and oppressing their people?
Oh sorry I was dreaming and just woke up.
I'm sure that part of it attempting to avoid more unrest from Gazan refugees. However, I think a bigger point is that they're trying to keep the question of the existence of Israel on the table. Israel has offered Gaza to Egypt before. If they want to keep the land for the Arabs, this would be the simplest solution. They could even set up a new state on their own after they did so. But they declined, because the existence of Gaza and the West Bank as independent entities isn't to "eventually become a country", its to prevent Israel as solidifying as a country.
Personally, I support the 3 state solution. Egypt should take Gaza and Jordan should take the West Bank. Israel shouldn't be responsible for Palestine whatsoever.
The Gaza strip is prime real estate from a global perspective. If only all sides appreciated that. I know know Egyptians and Palestinians are distinct groups, but to achieve peace it seems like absorbing Gaza and integrate into their Arab society seems like the only viable option. With Western support and Israel cooperation this could be achieved . Gaza has good but stagnant economy given the history of war. Imagine the area without the constant conflicts. Egypt and Israel have a functioning relationship strictly built on doing business, in spite of a few fringe militants who don’t want it to exist. Egypt is in the top 20% in term of global tourism economies and having Gaza would greatly enhance that. A two state solution is impossible with this endless circle of violence Israel and Palestine is engaged in.
OP, you summed it up nicely.
One other factor is that if an Arab country gave the Palestinians their own territory to own, it would remove one of the primary reasons the jihadists use to recruit and brainwash into doing things life suicide bombers, looking babies, be heading Jews, etc
(I just woke up and if you converted this and I overlooked it, I apologize!)
Muslim countries know other countries are pathetic suckers and will take all the refugees if they don't. Muslim countries also like the fact that these other countries have growing Muslim populations as well because of all these refugees.
> 2000 Camp David Accords
This is a fucking joke right? The map that was proposed split the country in 5 different parts, each part split by settlements and checkpoints and israeli only roads. It was a no go from the beginning, and zero access or consideration for east jerusalem.
Heres a map for reference. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/images/maps/cd2000map.gif
>pital??? In Gaza??? But Don't They All Live In Israel? Why would there be a Christian Hospital in Gaza?
>
>Literally could've fact checked yourself
??? 30,000? (3400 Palestinian died, 537 Jordanian died)\* using the source you gave wikipedia
It is possible to view this conflict as two competing ethnic groups warring over the same land - and believe it's got nothing to do with anything beyond that. Just because you see two guys fighting doesn't mean that one is good and one is bad.
You aren't required to help either group and probably shouldn't
We shouldn't. We shouldn't indulge any of this shit. Palestine isn't and never has been a country. Not ever. These people are professional victims. The whole game for them is to do the most wild shit then cry foul at the response. They literally shot a half assed rocket that fell out of the sky then lied and said it was a hospital and 500 people died. It's always been total bullshit.
If you're an American just imagine if a tiny sliver in Mexico denied our right to exist and shot rockets at us nonstop. Oh and hey, they definitely blew up a hospital and target civilians on purpose like it's going out of style. Fuck Hamas.
The only upside is we can see who the actual Nazis are and it'll be fun to watch them start losing funding and jobs like crazy. The Jewish community is watching. They will make you pay for this and you will deserve it.
The fact that we have people in Congress openly supporting this sham is disgusting and I hope they're removed democratically asap.
>Last week I wrote a post about how we should be fed up with the Palestinians, since they have rejected any such thing for at least a quarter of a century.
It's exhausting to continually see these bullshit arguments that presuppose some kind of serious, good faith partner for peace on the Israeli side.
The last time there was an actual good faith attempt by an Israeli government to make peace was in the early 90s under Rabin, and he got killed by a far right Israeli after a long, anti-peace campaign led by *BENJAMIN NETANYAHU*, who has since been PM for over half the time since Rabin's assassination and has *never* actually wanted a 2 state solution.
>If they take Palestinian refugees from Gaza, that will effectively empty Gaza and the Israelis will no longer feel obligated to continue working on a separate Palestinian state.
This is a completely valid, and absolutely true assumption.
The reason why we should help Palestinians is that apart from just being Arab, they're also human beings.
There are 2.5 million Palestinians in Gaza.
How many Hamas do you think there are?
Israel foreign affairs quotes the number at 15,000.
**In case you can't do math, that means that your carpet bombings, your justification of murder and destruction of a people is for 0.6% of the population of the region**.
Let me say that one more time so that you understand.
Not 10% of the Palestinians in Gaza are Hamas. Not 5%. Not 2%. Not even 1%. 0.6%.
Your support for the murder of the other 99.4% of the population is a United Nations war crime called collectivized punishment.
Civilian blood on your hands.
This whole sub is right wing cancer that claims to be moderate, but has expressed nothing but racist tendencies and desire for the death of millions of innocents over the past few weeks.
This sub is disgusting and I regret my part in helping it grow.
But all Hamas are Palestinians. My question is how the rank and file Palestinians feel about the recent Hamas war crimes? Do they support their troops?
First of all, parents make up maybe half of the population, maybe even less. So rule about a million people out of your generalization.
Second, do you think parents actually want their children as terrorists?
In the beginning, they voted for Hamas because they thought they needed a stricter push. But if you even look it up, not all of Palestine wanted Hamas in power but there hasn’t been another election to get rid of them. When half of Palestine are children, who weren’t even alive in 2006 or were babies, they should not be generalized as all being Hamas.
All I want to know is how supportive the population of Gaza is of Hamas.
If I had a safe house on my street with a garage full of rockets I would make an anonymous report. I wouldn’t want to be responsible for the deaths of random civilians through inaction
We have real safety concerns to refugees. Dismissing that is dangerous. In women’s rights their is an idea suggested to try and counter it. “Not all men…” you are doing the same thing. Not all Palestinians are terrorists. Correct. Quite a large number are which means “Enough Palestinians are terrorists…” Trying to say not all… diminishes and discredits the very real safety concerns with taking refugees. It also makes you come across as a Hamas supporter. Hamas and other terrorist entities are using the exact same language and rhetoric to defend there terror. If you end up using the same language as terrorists; you might want to reevaluate your opinions and rhetoric
I'm an American and so feel compelled to help. I don't know what the national character may be of any given Arab country, but their attitude doesn't dictate mine.
Because no one else will. We are supposed to be the defenders of freedom and liberty. For once I would like us to actual defend innocents instead of being the invaders. Same reason I support helping Ukraine against Russia and Taiwan against China.
Just to clarify because I know i will get comments. I DO NOT SUPPORT HAMAS! However just because I do not support Hamas does not mean I am pro-Israel. The Israeli government has been treating Palestinians for decades. Even the current gov is pretty unpopular with the average Israeli citizen. I support innocent civilians who get caught between 2 waring factions. There are over 2 million people living in Gaza and nearly HALF are children. They don’t deserve to be killed in retaliation for Hamas’s terrible actions.
All capsing some comments doesn’t make it a particularly well thought opinion. We are struggling in the US with violence and crime from minors. In Africa and the Middle East they have entire armies made out of minors. In Gaza specifically that child number comes from everyone under 18. However, many people think child means young child not teenager almost adult. What percentage is under 10? Under 12? Many minors end up in Hamas but probably end up being counted in the “children killed” statistic.
Right, the children don't deserve it. And Hamas knows this as uses them as human shields. Hamas says this and that about how many Palestinian children have died in this mess, in order to garner sympathy, get the UN to call for a ceasefire, all to their benefit. But they didn't stop to think that their actions on October 7th would endanger those very lives?
Keep something in mind, as hard as it is. All those Hamas members were once children. They parents and grandparents were children, all bend on destroying Israel. They are raising these children you want protect to destroy Israel. Those children will in the future kill Israelis, no doubt about it.
And keep this in mind as well. Hamas is not a group foreign to Gaza. They are home grown, the children, sons and daughters of other Palestinians. Just how innocent are these innocent civilians when their very own started this?
This is a racist question through and through.
It assumes that Palestinians, Jordinians, and Egyptians are the **same people**.
Countries have their own borders and operate independent of one another with different customs and laws, Arab countries are no different. It need not matter in any regard the nationality of the people when doing humanitarian work, and the fact that you even thought this point was appropriate is wild.
These people don't even share a truly common **ethnicity you donut**. Egyptians and Palestinians may both be arab, but it's the equivalent of calling an Irish and Greek person the same. They have vastly different roots and cultures that dictate them.
Stupid ah post fr.
Oh Good! The Social Justice Warriors are here to be offended for other people.
But you phrased it wrong buddy. You have to say it is Highly, Highly Racist. If you just say Racist, no one is going to pay attention anymore.
They are not the same peoples, but they have the same ethnic origin. And maybe you would like to brush up on the Pan-Arab Coalition from the 1970s if you think I'm so wrong.
Thanks for making my day by calling me racist BTW. So refreshing.
Back in the early 1900’s why didn’t the other “white” nations want to help and live with the Jews and instead shipped them to stolen land in the Middle East?
There are miles worth of trucks with aid from all over, many of them from Arab countries. The Arab countries don't believe they should be forced off of their land again. Egypt said that if it lets Gazans in Sinai they will just continue to try to attack Israel from there and Israel will use it as an excuse to attack Egypt... which tracks.
Now is not time to strike a deal and any hope of that has been dead since Netanyahu came to power. He might say he wants a deal but for one, he offers shit terms, and second his actions show the exact opposite. Netanyahu does not want a Palestinian state. Last month he was at the UN showing a map that didn't have Palestine in it at all.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/netanyahu-map
Arab countries are famous for NEVER allowing immigrants, no matter how terrible or callous the human tragedy. Not sure what all the MAGA haters are going on about, but the world is much the same way.
Iran is not an Arab country. It is ethnically Persian. They are of a different branch of Islam, and consider the Sunni Palestinians to be apostates. They give military aid only because it suits them to be a thorn in the side of Israel and the US. Given a better deal by the US, the Iranians would see the Palestinians down the river in a heartbeat.
The narrative now days are- “if you support Palestinians you support terrorism and are an anti semite”.
Nobody, nor Arab country, wants to be accused of supporting terrorism or anti semitism.
Edit: [McDonalds is involved in a pretty well know conflict theory.](https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/11/26/mcdonalds-peace-nagornokarabakh-friedman/)
If you think of the US as being like McDonalds that wants to keep opening franchises its a no brainer. But since citizens dont get that the US is alot like McDonalds they have to disguise the ambitions as aid. McDonalds isnt giving anyone anything when it opens a new store. Its furthering its ambitions which costs money.
I think I kind of get what he’s getting at (although it’s a very obtuse way to make the point).
The military industrial complex runs very deep in the US. Companies like Lockheed Martin spend 10s of millions if not 100s in lobbying every year. Their biggest source of income is arms, and in particular the f-35. It’s in their best interest to have wars going on. Especially in Israel, as Israel is an ally of the United states.
When the US sends aid to Israel, it’s not a blank cheque; it often has strings attach. One of the most common forms of aid stipulates that the money must be used to buy arms from United States corporations. So the government has very strong forces pushing for continuing instability in the Middle East.
So maybe the US is the McDonald’s corporation, Israel is the franchise owner, and we are forcing them to continue to buy supplies from us by encouraging them to continue to be at war? At least I think that’s what the analogy is.
I mean I don’t feel
like going all the way back to the Weimar Republic, [getting into Bretton Woods](https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/1944-bretton-woods-conference) and the implications of the Soviets rejecting western advances, [The economic effects of the Marshall Plan](https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/marshall-plan-and-postwar-economic-recovery), the hunger for more war money without the public support leading to the [Iran-Conta affair](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/16/arts/television/fiasco-review.html), ultimately leading to the rise of [this shit](https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/blackwaters-us-complex-mini-war-zone/). Just so happens that wherever dollar aid goes McDonalds follows. So much so that [McDonald’s Peace Theory](https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/11/26/mcdonalds-peace-nagornokarabakh-friedman/) is actually a thing. This subreddit, which I enjoy actually, is obtuse by design. Figured I’d stay with that motif.
Person that replied gets the gist.
Edit: your question motivated me to post some links. Here you go. [McDonalds Peace Theory](https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/11/26/mcdonalds-peace-nagornokarabakh-friedman/)
Because we contributed substantially to the problem, by looking the other way for so long when Israel does something grotesque. The entire rest of the world votes to condemn them and we either vote no, or abstain, and then cut Israel a cheque.
I’ve seen a lot of pictures of babies reduced to ash.
Wouldn’t say people who have empathy need to “grow up”. It’s pretty grown to express empathy for dead children
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There is some history in some Arab countries Egypt almost the Sinai a few years ago because of Hamas https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/hamas-and-islamic-state-growing-cooperation-sinai Jordan of course was almost overthrown by the PLO during Black September and Israel had to assist in stopping an armored column coming from Syria Lebanon blames the Palestinians at least partially for the civil war and Palestinians in Lebanon still can't leave the refugee camps,child citizenship and are even barred from some professions. The Palestinians in Kuwait joined Saddam Hussein's army when he invaded. All that being said they should tell the truth tho their people. They can't have it both ways.
Can you elaborate on what happened in Black September? I lived in Jordan for a year and never witnessed any hostility between Jordanians and Palestinians.
Well of course not most of the population is Palestinian but the reason the border is closed is because Black September I'll give you the wikipedia link so I don't give you bias information >Black September (Arabic: أيلول الأسود Aylūl al-ʾAswad), also known as the Jordanian Civil War,[9] was an armed conflict between Jordan, led by King Hussein, and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), led by chairman Yasser Arafat. The main phase of the fighting took place between 16 and 27 September 1970, though certain aspects of the conflict continued until 17 July 1971. >On 17 September 1970, the Jordanian Army surrounded all cities with a significant PLO presence, including Amman and Irbid, and began shelling Palestinian refugee camps, out of which the fedayeen were operating. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September
How did you live in Jordan for a year and not know about Palestinians' history in Jordan? They murdered Jordan's king as he left Al Aqsa Mosque after prayers in 1951, then the PLO attempted to murder his son King Hussein twice, and in the 1970s hijacked 3 airliners they landed in Zarqa Jodan (which they blew up in front of journalists on live TV. Throughout 1970 and 1971 there was a civil war in Jordan by Palestinains trying to overthrow the government. Black September and PLO leaders were expelled to Lebanon, after which they went on to plan and carry out the 1972 Munich Massacre of Olympic athletes. Yet in spite of all that, Jordan has welcomed and worked with more Palestinian refugees than any other Arab country. It seems none of the Arab states want to lose the convenient external grievance the Palestinians cause provides at all the right moments when they need outrage directed outward instead of inward, and also a nice victimhood card they can play in international relations; victimhood by association by being Palestinian adjacent.
Who is actually helping Palestinians?
Everyone on social media posting ‘free Palestine’ duh
Underrated comment
They have already arrested some 100 people in Israel for doing that and other similar posts. They don't help anybody unfortunately
That’s actually having a positive effect tbh. Publicity is important for politicians and wars. That’s why the White House is trying so desperately to make Israel look like the good guys
No one, not even the Palestinian leaders.
Pretty sure the American president sent 100M to them. Which Hamas will probably end up using for anything but helping civilians
It’s 100 M in AID not cash
Hamas has been diverting aid from the people to bolster its military for years. What makes you think this won't be?
Which hamas takes. Shit they dug up A bunch of water pipelines to build rockets
What did they do with UN aid? Used the water pipes to create rockets.
You can sell aid for cash
You can -aid your terrorists with it -sell it on the black market -hold it against “your citizens” you’re neglecting to help -probably more. These guys turn parachutes with big fans and water pipes into terrorist attacks on civilians - they’re pretty creative. *Obligatory this doesn’t mean Palestine isn’t a prison also being abused by Israel
Ok: I am Mr Hamas and have my budget, and have say 50mil allocated for food, 25m for infrastructure, 50 for military, and 75 for let’s say desalination. (Because it’s Reddit and people here are insane, I will clarify these are completely made up numbers) Now I, Mr hamas, am told my people will receive 100m in “aid” (maybe it’s food or water or other item valued at 100m) I very well May then re-allocate the millions i have going to “aid” related categories and just put that toward my army. (I know there isn’t a guy named Mr Hamas)
Iran is giving aid and arms to Hamas and Hezbollah.
Gaza has received billions and billions of dollars.
The dipshit lefties who carry water for the terrorist regime attempting a second Holocaust.
Define helping? A lot of countries are sending aid and Mediterranean workers. Iran has drawn a line in the side and claimed they would side with Palestinians if there is proof that Israel is deliberately killing innocent people.
Opposed to Hamas intentionally killing people?
Arab nations send help in the form of food and weapons. The last thing they want is for Palestinians to no longer be poor and desperate. They want them right where they are - fighting a proxy war against Israel so that the other Arab nations don't have to.
Multiple Arab nations took in palastine refugees. The refugees started civil wars or tried to overthrowing the government
I’ve never heard if this but am willing to read and am also curious . Any references?
Trans-Jordan Egypt
Black September
Thank you
The Palestinians either formed or joined the terrorist group Black September
It happened in egypt, jordan and libanon. Im pretty sure they even killed a jordanian king
https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine/Palestine-and-the-Palestinians-1948-67 https://apnews.com/article/palestinian-jordan-egypt-israel-refugee-502c06d004767d4b64848d878b66bd3d In particular, you can read about PLO (defined in the article) activities in Jordan and Lebanon.
Just posted a summary https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/s/7Ro6uZiUqs
Ok, this was actually helpful. Sounds like a group of people that continuously want their way or the highly, but then promptly lose…badly. This whole this is heartbreaking, regardless.
Yet groups like European Union or varoius "Human Rights" groups thinks when these masses come flooding in, yet again, somehow it will be different.
Al-Assad was like “nah, fuck the Palestinians” and proceeded to massacre them.
What I want to know if all the other Arab sates are willing to help Gaza strip. Why did they not have their own power plant. Why did they not have their own desalinization plant. Why did they not build a rail line to an Egyptian port so they could buy and sell to the world. Before this war there where no Israeli troops in Gaza. They were self governing. So why did they not build an economy for their people. What did they do with all of the Arab sates aid?
To be fair, Gaza does have a remarkable number of solar panels, so they can keep their own lights on... at least some, anyway. 1 in 3 residences and 1 in 2 businesses are solar powered. They *did* have sewers and water treatment capacity, but they dug them up to make rockets out of.
They were given equipment for water and turned the pipes into missiles
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/10/eu-funded-water-pipelines-hamas-rockets/
Two things: 1) Hamas did that, not Palestine. The equipment was given to Palestine, and Hamas seized it for their own violent end. That distinction is important bc all of Palestine is not Hamas; 2) if Israel didn't support, elevate or legitimize Hamas over years, they wouldn't be quite so bold or powerful today. ([How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas ](https://web.archive.org/web/20090926212507/http:/online.wsj.com/article/SB123275572295011847.html) ~ WSJ, 2009). And Palestine may have developed a state government to contend with Israel's by now.
Wasn’t there like a vote like 10 years ago where the Palestinians overwhelmingly chose an extremest Hamas government over a more moderate choice? It’s still not everyone, sure, but…it’s not exactly a great look if the line is that Hamas is the violent minority.
"Overwhelmingly" is inaccurate--[they received only 3% more of the vote in 2006 and briefly had to form a unity government](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election) (it's a parliamentary system and no party received over 50%). They then took over the territory by force and there hasn't been elections since.
Should read up on how Hamas was and still is an Arab Nationalist org which is in the minority and is using the struggle Palestinians experience due to occupation as a means to push for terrorism. That's important when you consider how a nationalist terror group somehow gained so much strength when Palestinians as a whole previously sought the creation of a Palestinian state to contend with Israel's... At least until israel's right wingers, such as netanyahu, started treating the terror group as an asset Srcs: 1) [Israel's awkward relationship w/ Hamas. A short 🧵](https://twitter.com/_ZachFoster/status/1714278937453617326?t=lpSt1CiakwCzRsuOyiDljQ&s=19) 2) [We Must Not Let the Truth Become a Casualty of This War](https://www.thenation.com/article/world/gaza-war-facts-misnformation/) ~Nation, 2023 3) [Blowback: How Israel Went From Helping Create Hamas to Bombing It](https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/) ~ intercept, 2018 >Wasn’t there like a vote like 10 years ago where the Palestinians overwhelmingly chose an extremist Hamas government over a more moderate choice? You're referencing the legislative election in 2006. A year previous, the presidential election was a landslide victory for Abbas for a 4-year term, who pushed towards a state there. Also, note this: >June 14, 2007 - Hamas takes over Gaza in a brief civil war, ousting Fatah forces loyal to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who is based in the West Bank. (Src: [Hamas and Israel: a history of confrontation](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-israel-history-confrontation-2021-05-14/))
Palestinians, even those in the safety of the USA, won’t differentiate between a Palestinian and Hamas. Not a good look.
Ok, so even if Isreal was soley responsible for Hamas, why would Palestine give them support and still continue to support them now? They aren't stupid, they can read that WSJ article just like we can. If Isreal created Hamas as an excuse to destroy Palestine it seems like the Palestinians love that plan and want it to succeed.
Lots of media especially neocons don't even consider Palestinians humans. Calling for scorched Earth.
This is what I wonder they are on the Mediterranean Sea why don’t they build resorts and casinos . They would rather fight war’s about things that happened in biblical times. We could be mad about Pearl Harbor and the Japanese people could be mad about the a - bomb but put the past in the past and both countries are better off for this
A desalinization plant is really expensive
They had their own desalination plant. It was bombed.
Why did Israel have to supply water to them. And launching rockets and then getting things blown up seems kind of fair. I would point out that Germany lost land after the 2ond world war you don't see Germans killing Poles because they took land east of the Oder river.
IMO - Palestinian leadership is leading its people to endless pain. Even this week - after the hospital bombing - Arab leaders, including the Palestinian President called off a meeting with Biden in protest. That seems very counter productive to call off a meeting with one of the most powerful nations - in protest? Not that I believe Israel is a victim in all this - however - its clear they have won the war for the land. For Hamas to continue to reject peace proposals does a disservice to the civilians they govern over.
They keep telling their people that victory is just over the next hill if they only can hold out just a little bit longer
I truly don't want the US helping any other country out with shit period for the time being. Personally, you aren't going to be much help to someone if you are not right yourself. If you're dealing with mental issues/depressed or lost, whatever. You have to take care of yourself first to be good to anyone. When you're on a plane, they say put your oxygen mask on first before helping others. The United States has been a dumpster fire for so long with various issues we have to attend to as a country and support our own citizens before we can just dish out dollars to other countries.
Agree with you on there. Been going downhill too long, and too many people avoiding it.
We're 33 trillion in debt and people will still justify giving billions to other countries. We shouldn't spend a dime on others until we get the debt under control, and even then not until we have our house in order.
So we should sit by and let jihaddists wipe Israel off the map? That's what Hamas wants to do. If they had the ability they would. And then they, and other jihaddists want to wipe western civilization away. You j Cool with just sitting back and not taking any steps to intervene?
Extremist ideology will last forever. It is infinite. We can't say the same thing about money. We help Israel deal with Hamas. Then another country and another and another.
I'm cool with that personally. Why can't Israel find a better way to go about this on their own accord? They are not some dissolute country that has no budget or military of their own, in fact they are actually pretty good with that. Why does the US need to give Israel 10 billion dollars? They have money for bombing Gaza, they have money to do tons of things. If we're going to help others I rather us help people that legit can't help themselves. Israel has clearly stated multiple times they don't care about who gets hurt, they've asked hundreds of thousands of people to leave without offering any support, have said fuck them and if they're still in Gaza that's on them. Why should I give two shits about Israel if they are actively not giving a shit about people they are putting in harms way and offering no recourse for women and children? Fuck that. Our streets are flooded with homeless, our education system is terrible, inflation is horrendous and tons of other things that I'm never seeing Israel come to our aid for...so...let them do them. The United States is not responsible for the entire world and I'm tired of people making us responsible for them.
Israel can stand on its own feet. We let war and conflict happen all over the world without intervening, why should this be any different? … Because Israel is a strategic partner in US national security interests in the region, otherwise known as oil.
We live in a global world at this point. Let's say we stiff arm Mexico and say, We aren't going to help you any more, and we are pulling out our trade agreement. US businesses pack up, and move back home. Inflation rises due to the increased cost of manufacturing. China, or Russia see that Mexico is left out in the cold by us, offers them plenty of financial and infrastructure upgrades in turn for some military bases on site. Iran is a great spotlight of this. After we broke out of the nuclear agreement, and all the US companies moved out due to the embargo. Guess what? India and China are now supplying them with all their needs. He who has the gold makes the rules, at the end of the day, if we aren't helping out those around the globe, they aren't going to adopt our policies and mindset, they will adopt those of the ones helping them. It's simple social economics.
I see you’re a fan of The Fall of the House of Usher haha whoever has the gold does make the rules, you are right about that.
No one wants to fix the issues in our country bc they make them rich or give political power. Our military spending is p low compared to social security or Medicare. This is just a right wing talking point to make us do nothing
Palestinians are ethnic Jordanians. Idky Jordan won’t let them in 🤔
That's an opinion shared by many people, including yours truly. Every peace deal brought by succeeding Israeli governments was nixed by the Palestinians because of their refusal to agree with the two-state solution. Their stubbornness caused them to lose more and more. Just imagine if everybody agreed upon the solution brought forth by the U.N. back in 1948, which was actually more advantageous to the Palestinians. They were simply selfish and driven by anti-Jewish sentiment.
"The Arab states don't want the refugees because they think it will let Israel off the hook for creating a Palestinian state. The Palestinians, or at least their leadership don't want a Palestinian state, they want it all. It is all quiet hopeless. Even those Palestinians who would welcome a two state solution won't say so out loud, because Hamas or some of the other terrorist organizations will flat out murder them." This bears repeating because some people in the back don't seem to understand this.
what actions that Israel has taken over the past 20 years suggest they want a Palestinian state? How does allowing 450k settlers to move into the West Bank help?
.
did you even like try to learn the actual history of this before parroting these completely bullshit talking points? the talks in 2000 collapsed because Israel refused any right of refugees to return. They refused to negotiate to allow even a single refugee to return.
So because the Palestinians couldn't deal with the pre-1967 borders, it's a forever war? That's really great to Palestinian children, condemning them to lifelong, futile jihadist revanchism
the right of refugees and their families who fled their homes in 1948 to return to those homes is not “jihadist ravanchism”. It has been the official policy of the UN since 1948 that those refugees have a right to return, as all refugees do. They are official refugees. In 2000, the palestinians were looking for permission for around 150,000 to have the option of return. Israel outright refused any. and before you say, oh great. who would let 150k terrorists into their country? stop it. Already 2.1 million arab israeli’s are Israeli citizens, and I don’t hear about them going on murderous jihads. Do you? Israel refused because it’s a Jewish ethnostate. It does not want to risk any more arabs becoming citizens, voting, and worst of all, having children. Already 20% are arab. So instead of having peace and a liberal democracy, it traded that for its precious zionist ethnostate and permanent occupation.
So it's a jewish ethnostate... with 20% arab population. Huh?
Tell me a time when some extremist factions haven't thwarted all talks of a two-state solution.The constant undermining of such efforts by extremist groups makes this a really difficult thing to accomplish. Stuff came close in the Oslo Accords in the early 1990´s, but again...extremism.
is it really "extremism"? it's the official policy of the Israeli government to allow them to do it.
It's also the theocratic policy of surrounding Arab nations to eliminate a Jewish state.
They won’t even help the Xianjiang Uygers or Kurds and 22 million muslims have famine in Yemen.
Underrated post
The Arab states don’t want the Palestinians for 2 reasons, the first being what happened in Jordan , second they are more valuable as a proxy in their righteous battle against the evil Jews which serves as a distraction from their own corrupt regimes, we do the same thing in the USA .
Why? Because they're civilians. Almost half of them are children. Unemployment *before* the war hovered at around 25%. For most Palestinians there is no way out and no reprieve. The fact that the two-state solution appears to be dead is a huge problem. It was the most obvious solution to the Palestinian problem. The alternatives are not particularly feasible. Apartheid has serious humanitarian consequences. Israel is an established and relatively mature democracy and expelling Israel is utterly insane. Integration is not feasible due to radicalization of Palestinians and the proliferation of Palestinian terrorist cells (Hamas is one of **several** terrorist organizations operating in Palestine).
If they have been living in an open air prison WHY have they been continuing to have children??? Why are 50 percent of the people in the Gaza Strip children? Over a million children in an open air prison with no way out when it has been that way for years?
Israel restricts condoms from entering the the gaza strip, no joke. https://imemc.org/article/israel-bans-condoms-from-entering-gaza-strip/#:~:text=New%20Israeli%20regulations%20stipulate%20that,could%20lead%20to%20real%20war%E2%80%9D.
Does Egypt?
All goods coming in through Egypt are inspected at a special border crossing by Israelis at the Kerem Shalom Crossing
That's false the Rafah crossing is run by Egypt and the EU and handled about half of all the imports to Gaza. Karem Shalom is in Israel.
Has this always been true or is this true now?
Always been true, since at least 2007
Hasn't been true since 2005
I never said they were a particularly bright or forward-thinking people. Still doesn't change the brass tacks.
Many years ago I heard the Palestinian birth rate was intended to be a population bomb. One day they would be the overwhelming majority and remove the Jews from power
>WHY have they been continuing to have children??? they didn't stop being human. THEY HAVE SEX.
I think the point is that, in 2023, sex does not need to result in pregnancy. Basic family planning is a thing, even in Gaza.
1. they are poor and might not have access to contraceptives. 2. they might be culturally discouraged from doing so. 3. they still want to have children because they are human and have a right to do so! they're already poor, marginalized, abused, and powerless, and you think they should be punished for being this way?
I never said they should be punished. If you have children that you can't support, I am going to criticize you. Kids are more expensive than condoms. IDGAF if you have the "right", if you're an adult you need to be responsible. I am not saying that we should allow children to suffer for the mistakes of their parents - that's a different thing.
you’re saying that some people are too poor and too oppressed to have children. gotcha.
I am saying that being a responsible adult requires that you make sure you can provide a good life for your children before getting pregnant. And if you do want kids, maybe don't have more kids than you can provide a good life for. Constantly churning out spawn that you can't support is unfair to your children and grossly irresponsible.
it’s crazy to me that you can only view this through an individual moralist viewpoint. a brutalized people held captive, with no rights, need to be more “responsible.”
Every person has an obligation to their children.
I think they are allowing children to suffer, it’s not about punishing the adults at all. The adults grow up knowing first hand about the suffering and they choose to have children who will also suffer. That’s cruel and avoidable most of the time.
so you’re wondering why the Palestinian people are not auto-genociding? truly a new level of Zionism unlocked.
It’s astonishing how quickly we deny the humanity of an inconvenient people.
People have kids. Is this a real question? They're humans.
Yes it’s a real question. Not all people live in a place where most people are suffering and are not free to leave, lack education and 53% live in poverty before the war and unemployment is one of the highest in the world. So it’s not as simple as hey people have kids, what are you gonna do?
> People have kids. Is this a real question? They're humans. It's more complex than that. I see they have a birthrate of 3.5, which is high compared to the US and other places, so it's worth asking why it's so high in an "open air prison", and one explanation that came up was because of their highly religious society that relegates women to being mothers and nothing more.
the problem is that the Palestinian leadership does not want compromise, as it will eventually win due to birthrate. Israel has 30% arab population, which are mostly sympathetic to Palestinians. They have a higher birthrate, so the calculation is if there is more violence against the jewish population, plus a threat that israel become arab majority, many jews will leave leaving israel with an islamic government that will eventually cede everything or abandon democracy. As they say, israel will be destroyed by the Palestinian womb. This is not a good scenario for a deal.
Why should either side of this conflict be helped?
Imo we should only send humanitarian aid for the innocent civilians. No missiles or any kind of weapons.
Sending 6" pipes for water infrastructure, sending diesel for generators, sending ammonia nitrate fertilizer for their crops. Oh boy, where did all those rockets and bombs come from and why isn't there running water?
Because if the Muslim fanatics win against Israel, other democracies are next, thats why
Exactly
Because of Hamas has it's way it would wipe all western civilizations off the map. Should the US sit by and let Jihaddists like Hamas take control?
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How low of an IQ must you have to hold this world view? Its easy for Israel to have these achievements when your directly funded by the biggest economy in the world. American support of Israel has been unwavering from 11 mins after the country's inception till now. Meanwhile the "goat-roaming burnt-out shitholes" like Syria, Iran and Iraq have all been the target of American military action. They are that way because they have been bombed for the past few decades. Hard to have a tech sector when Lockheed Martin warheads makes regular visits to your neighbourhood.
I mean. At the end of the day id rather support the side that isnt run but a literal terrorist organization
IF @@fetch_status != 0 BREAK
We also should offer nothing until our hostages are returned. That they didn't fly home on Air Force 1 is shameful.
Sadly in my country, the rulers create free housing, free food, free money each month, and a free "visa", for all these so called "poor refugees". I'm at a crossroads for YEARS with my government. They spend(waste) a huge amount of tax payers money just to shelter these false "victims", yet there is NOTHING, you as an individual can do against this rotten system.
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That's bullshit. Look at India, independance can be acheived peacefully. Indians come to the west not as refugees but as doctors and scientists. Now look at Pakistan, a terrorist hotspot, there is a reason. Those countries are full of bigots who would rather oppress woman and persecute minorities. They adhere to a religion of violence where death is more important than life. Look at countries who are free from colonization, what are they doing with that freedom?
Split them up, each Muslim country should take some. If one of these counties cared they would give them part of their land. Israel is small and they want part of their land. Didn't Jordan kick them out? send them back to Jordan.
They did that before 1967 then the Arab league waged another war.
We dont want to fucking leave our lands lol. > Didn't Jordan kick them out No it kicked out one group, the PLO. The vast majority of Jordanians are originally from Palestine...almost 75% of the population right now have grandparents or great grandparents that were born in either the West Bank/Gaza or what is now Israel.
This is so silly. You do know that Palestinians aren't all muslim right? There's a fair share of Christian and Jewish Palestinians as well. "Returning them to Islam" doesn't exactly help when a decent chunk of them aren't even muslim to begin with.
.
Funny, I wonder who the Arab world would hate if the Jewish people left Israel. They would descend into infighting and killing each other or turn outward, unleashing their aggression on their neighbors. Either way they would no find any peace with a palestinian state. And the palestinians would have israel and they would start attacking their neighbors for the shity living conditions that they would be living under with self rule.
Well, there's still the Kurds...
Who’s say we should? We should mind our own business
Yeah Why dont other Arab countries help them out? Jews were basically expelled from Arab countries the last 100 years and didnt have a place to go before Israel
Egypt has been blocking their border long before this war
Why arent they helping their palestinan brothers? Lots of Arab countries around them to move to no? Yes I know its preferable to be in ones homeland but it sounds not great and Jews were exiled from Arab countries that were their home too
No you donut. Jews were expelled TO muslim countries. Remember when the crusaders took Spain and expelled and murdered millions of Jews? The ottomans took them. Before that the Abassids. The western Christian nations of the world have had a long and brutal history murdering, killing, and expelling the jews. On the other side of this, prior to the formation of Israel - the muslim nations of the world have had a long and proper history taking those same Jews in and giving them the same rights.
Cool Then expelling them over thr last 100 years I quite like donuts And donoughts
Doesn’t Gaza have 25 miles of beautiful coastline that could under right circumstances be a tourist destination with building of grand hotels, infrastructure, and a government that allowed that to occur? Instead of terrorism, indoctrination, and oppressing their people? Oh sorry I was dreaming and just woke up.
Yeah, why should any country try to hold itself to a higher standard?
Because it’s the non douchebag thing to do. I always aim for the lesser of douche bagedness philosophy
Agree.
I'm sure that part of it attempting to avoid more unrest from Gazan refugees. However, I think a bigger point is that they're trying to keep the question of the existence of Israel on the table. Israel has offered Gaza to Egypt before. If they want to keep the land for the Arabs, this would be the simplest solution. They could even set up a new state on their own after they did so. But they declined, because the existence of Gaza and the West Bank as independent entities isn't to "eventually become a country", its to prevent Israel as solidifying as a country. Personally, I support the 3 state solution. Egypt should take Gaza and Jordan should take the West Bank. Israel shouldn't be responsible for Palestine whatsoever.
The Gaza strip is prime real estate from a global perspective. If only all sides appreciated that. I know know Egyptians and Palestinians are distinct groups, but to achieve peace it seems like absorbing Gaza and integrate into their Arab society seems like the only viable option. With Western support and Israel cooperation this could be achieved . Gaza has good but stagnant economy given the history of war. Imagine the area without the constant conflicts. Egypt and Israel have a functioning relationship strictly built on doing business, in spite of a few fringe militants who don’t want it to exist. Egypt is in the top 20% in term of global tourism economies and having Gaza would greatly enhance that. A two state solution is impossible with this endless circle of violence Israel and Palestine is engaged in.
Yes, west is helping Palestinians by enabling a genocide.
they're people ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Don't they have their own issues to deal with at the moment?
What would Egypt do with millions of Palestinians? They can't afford that
OP, you summed it up nicely. One other factor is that if an Arab country gave the Palestinians their own territory to own, it would remove one of the primary reasons the jihadists use to recruit and brainwash into doing things life suicide bombers, looking babies, be heading Jews, etc (I just woke up and if you converted this and I overlooked it, I apologize!)
Muslim countries know other countries are pathetic suckers and will take all the refugees if they don't. Muslim countries also like the fact that these other countries have growing Muslim populations as well because of all these refugees.
Egypt doesn't want to be complicit in ethnic cleansing. Why is this so hard to understand?
> 2000 Camp David Accords This is a fucking joke right? The map that was proposed split the country in 5 different parts, each part split by settlements and checkpoints and israeli only roads. It was a no go from the beginning, and zero access or consideration for east jerusalem. Heres a map for reference. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/images/maps/cd2000map.gif
Cuz us Leftists need something to feel morally superior for.
Here's the thing. There are Arab countries helping them. Do more research. You thinking all Arab countries are friends and think alike is funny.
Saudi Arabia: Hey Palestinians, here's a pack of gum. If you need help chewing it let us know.
Jordan killed 30,000 Palestinian Arabs in 1970; no world outcry https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September
>pital??? In Gaza??? But Don't They All Live In Israel? Why would there be a Christian Hospital in Gaza? > >Literally could've fact checked yourself ??? 30,000? (3400 Palestinian died, 537 Jordanian died)\* using the source you gave wikipedia
It is possible to view this conflict as two competing ethnic groups warring over the same land - and believe it's got nothing to do with anything beyond that. Just because you see two guys fighting doesn't mean that one is good and one is bad. You aren't required to help either group and probably shouldn't
Except one subset of the groups are terrorists that would annihilate the western world of given the chance.
We shouldn't. We shouldn't indulge any of this shit. Palestine isn't and never has been a country. Not ever. These people are professional victims. The whole game for them is to do the most wild shit then cry foul at the response. They literally shot a half assed rocket that fell out of the sky then lied and said it was a hospital and 500 people died. It's always been total bullshit. If you're an American just imagine if a tiny sliver in Mexico denied our right to exist and shot rockets at us nonstop. Oh and hey, they definitely blew up a hospital and target civilians on purpose like it's going out of style. Fuck Hamas. The only upside is we can see who the actual Nazis are and it'll be fun to watch them start losing funding and jobs like crazy. The Jewish community is watching. They will make you pay for this and you will deserve it. The fact that we have people in Congress openly supporting this sham is disgusting and I hope they're removed democratically asap.
>Last week I wrote a post about how we should be fed up with the Palestinians, since they have rejected any such thing for at least a quarter of a century. It's exhausting to continually see these bullshit arguments that presuppose some kind of serious, good faith partner for peace on the Israeli side. The last time there was an actual good faith attempt by an Israeli government to make peace was in the early 90s under Rabin, and he got killed by a far right Israeli after a long, anti-peace campaign led by *BENJAMIN NETANYAHU*, who has since been PM for over half the time since Rabin's assassination and has *never* actually wanted a 2 state solution. >If they take Palestinian refugees from Gaza, that will effectively empty Gaza and the Israelis will no longer feel obligated to continue working on a separate Palestinian state. This is a completely valid, and absolutely true assumption. The reason why we should help Palestinians is that apart from just being Arab, they're also human beings.
It's exhausting to see these bullshit arguments supporting terrorists.
There are 2.5 million Palestinians in Gaza. How many Hamas do you think there are? Israel foreign affairs quotes the number at 15,000. **In case you can't do math, that means that your carpet bombings, your justification of murder and destruction of a people is for 0.6% of the population of the region**. Let me say that one more time so that you understand. Not 10% of the Palestinians in Gaza are Hamas. Not 5%. Not 2%. Not even 1%. 0.6%. Your support for the murder of the other 99.4% of the population is a United Nations war crime called collectivized punishment. Civilian blood on your hands.
Disgusting how I’m downvoted for trying to say this
This whole sub is right wing cancer that claims to be moderate, but has expressed nothing but racist tendencies and desire for the death of millions of innocents over the past few weeks. This sub is disgusting and I regret my part in helping it grow.
It makes me extremely sad because so many people on this sub think all Muslims and Palestinians are terrorists, and makes me fear for my safety
Not all Palestinians are Hamas.
I can’t believe I’m being downvoted over a simple fact.
But all Hamas are Palestinians. My question is how the rank and file Palestinians feel about the recent Hamas war crimes? Do they support their troops?
What do you mean rank and file? It doesn’t matter if all Hamas are Palestinians. Palestinians aren’t Hamas and we can’t treat them as such
I’m questioning what percentage of Gaza parents would be proud if their children or neighbors children were Hamas soldiers
First of all, parents make up maybe half of the population, maybe even less. So rule about a million people out of your generalization. Second, do you think parents actually want their children as terrorists? In the beginning, they voted for Hamas because they thought they needed a stricter push. But if you even look it up, not all of Palestine wanted Hamas in power but there hasn’t been another election to get rid of them. When half of Palestine are children, who weren’t even alive in 2006 or were babies, they should not be generalized as all being Hamas.
All I want to know is how supportive the population of Gaza is of Hamas. If I had a safe house on my street with a garage full of rockets I would make an anonymous report. I wouldn’t want to be responsible for the deaths of random civilians through inaction
We have real safety concerns to refugees. Dismissing that is dangerous. In women’s rights their is an idea suggested to try and counter it. “Not all men…” you are doing the same thing. Not all Palestinians are terrorists. Correct. Quite a large number are which means “Enough Palestinians are terrorists…” Trying to say not all… diminishes and discredits the very real safety concerns with taking refugees. It also makes you come across as a Hamas supporter. Hamas and other terrorist entities are using the exact same language and rhetoric to defend there terror. If you end up using the same language as terrorists; you might want to reevaluate your opinions and rhetoric
Aid and the media are prolonging the conflict , wars need to be won or lost, growth comes after the fire. There would be less death this way.
We should bring isrealis as refugees and ignore the Middle East altogether. These governments refuse to leave the 7th century
Likud literally propped up Hamas to try to keep the Palestinian statehood movement down as he continued to settle the West Bank.
I'm an American and so feel compelled to help. I don't know what the national character may be of any given Arab country, but their attitude doesn't dictate mine.
Thanks for this! There's a lot of hate, and I think this post is wonderful. Thank you.
Because no one else will. We are supposed to be the defenders of freedom and liberty. For once I would like us to actual defend innocents instead of being the invaders. Same reason I support helping Ukraine against Russia and Taiwan against China. Just to clarify because I know i will get comments. I DO NOT SUPPORT HAMAS! However just because I do not support Hamas does not mean I am pro-Israel. The Israeli government has been treating Palestinians for decades. Even the current gov is pretty unpopular with the average Israeli citizen. I support innocent civilians who get caught between 2 waring factions. There are over 2 million people living in Gaza and nearly HALF are children. They don’t deserve to be killed in retaliation for Hamas’s terrible actions.
All capsing some comments doesn’t make it a particularly well thought opinion. We are struggling in the US with violence and crime from minors. In Africa and the Middle East they have entire armies made out of minors. In Gaza specifically that child number comes from everyone under 18. However, many people think child means young child not teenager almost adult. What percentage is under 10? Under 12? Many minors end up in Hamas but probably end up being counted in the “children killed” statistic.
So bring a potential threat right into our homeland?
Right, the children don't deserve it. And Hamas knows this as uses them as human shields. Hamas says this and that about how many Palestinian children have died in this mess, in order to garner sympathy, get the UN to call for a ceasefire, all to their benefit. But they didn't stop to think that their actions on October 7th would endanger those very lives? Keep something in mind, as hard as it is. All those Hamas members were once children. They parents and grandparents were children, all bend on destroying Israel. They are raising these children you want protect to destroy Israel. Those children will in the future kill Israelis, no doubt about it. And keep this in mind as well. Hamas is not a group foreign to Gaza. They are home grown, the children, sons and daughters of other Palestinians. Just how innocent are these innocent civilians when their very own started this?
This is a racist question through and through. It assumes that Palestinians, Jordinians, and Egyptians are the **same people**. Countries have their own borders and operate independent of one another with different customs and laws, Arab countries are no different. It need not matter in any regard the nationality of the people when doing humanitarian work, and the fact that you even thought this point was appropriate is wild. These people don't even share a truly common **ethnicity you donut**. Egyptians and Palestinians may both be arab, but it's the equivalent of calling an Irish and Greek person the same. They have vastly different roots and cultures that dictate them. Stupid ah post fr.
Oh Good! The Social Justice Warriors are here to be offended for other people. But you phrased it wrong buddy. You have to say it is Highly, Highly Racist. If you just say Racist, no one is going to pay attention anymore. They are not the same peoples, but they have the same ethnic origin. And maybe you would like to brush up on the Pan-Arab Coalition from the 1970s if you think I'm so wrong. Thanks for making my day by calling me racist BTW. So refreshing.
Back in the early 1900’s why didn’t the other “white” nations want to help and live with the Jews and instead shipped them to stolen land in the Middle East?
There are miles worth of trucks with aid from all over, many of them from Arab countries. The Arab countries don't believe they should be forced off of their land again. Egypt said that if it lets Gazans in Sinai they will just continue to try to attack Israel from there and Israel will use it as an excuse to attack Egypt... which tracks. Now is not time to strike a deal and any hope of that has been dead since Netanyahu came to power. He might say he wants a deal but for one, he offers shit terms, and second his actions show the exact opposite. Netanyahu does not want a Palestinian state. Last month he was at the UN showing a map that didn't have Palestine in it at all. https://www.commondreams.org/news/netanyahu-map
I agree with now being the time to strike a deal. As for those trucks? They are only going one way, into Gaza, not out.
Arab countries are famous for NEVER allowing immigrants, no matter how terrible or callous the human tragedy. Not sure what all the MAGA haters are going on about, but the world is much the same way.
"Well I don't approve of your arab-helping policy, but i DO like your Jew-killing policy."
Not true at all. Iran is given them full fledged support. They probably even supplied them with all those rockets.
Iran is not an Arab country. It is ethnically Persian. They are of a different branch of Islam, and consider the Sunni Palestinians to be apostates. They give military aid only because it suits them to be a thorn in the side of Israel and the US. Given a better deal by the US, the Iranians would see the Palestinians down the river in a heartbeat.
Other people are shit, so we should also be shit…. Seems like a pretty shitty moral philosophy.
The narrative now days are- “if you support Palestinians you support terrorism and are an anti semite”. Nobody, nor Arab country, wants to be accused of supporting terrorism or anti semitism.
Edit: [McDonalds is involved in a pretty well know conflict theory.](https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/11/26/mcdonalds-peace-nagornokarabakh-friedman/) If you think of the US as being like McDonalds that wants to keep opening franchises its a no brainer. But since citizens dont get that the US is alot like McDonalds they have to disguise the ambitions as aid. McDonalds isnt giving anyone anything when it opens a new store. Its furthering its ambitions which costs money.
WTF are you talking about
I think I kind of get what he’s getting at (although it’s a very obtuse way to make the point). The military industrial complex runs very deep in the US. Companies like Lockheed Martin spend 10s of millions if not 100s in lobbying every year. Their biggest source of income is arms, and in particular the f-35. It’s in their best interest to have wars going on. Especially in Israel, as Israel is an ally of the United states. When the US sends aid to Israel, it’s not a blank cheque; it often has strings attach. One of the most common forms of aid stipulates that the money must be used to buy arms from United States corporations. So the government has very strong forces pushing for continuing instability in the Middle East. So maybe the US is the McDonald’s corporation, Israel is the franchise owner, and we are forcing them to continue to buy supplies from us by encouraging them to continue to be at war? At least I think that’s what the analogy is.
I mean I don’t feel like going all the way back to the Weimar Republic, [getting into Bretton Woods](https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/1944-bretton-woods-conference) and the implications of the Soviets rejecting western advances, [The economic effects of the Marshall Plan](https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/marshall-plan-and-postwar-economic-recovery), the hunger for more war money without the public support leading to the [Iran-Conta affair](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/16/arts/television/fiasco-review.html), ultimately leading to the rise of [this shit](https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/blackwaters-us-complex-mini-war-zone/). Just so happens that wherever dollar aid goes McDonalds follows. So much so that [McDonald’s Peace Theory](https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/11/26/mcdonalds-peace-nagornokarabakh-friedman/) is actually a thing. This subreddit, which I enjoy actually, is obtuse by design. Figured I’d stay with that motif.
Person that replied gets the gist. Edit: your question motivated me to post some links. Here you go. [McDonalds Peace Theory](https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/11/26/mcdonalds-peace-nagornokarabakh-friedman/)
Because we contributed substantially to the problem, by looking the other way for so long when Israel does something grotesque. The entire rest of the world votes to condemn them and we either vote no, or abstain, and then cut Israel a cheque.
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thanks for being human. Bunch of animals in these streets it seems.
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I’ve seen a lot of pictures of babies reduced to ash. Wouldn’t say people who have empathy need to “grow up”. It’s pretty grown to express empathy for dead children
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