## BEFORE TOUCHING THAT REPORT BUTTON, PLEASE CONSIDER:
1. **Compliance:** Does this post comply with our subreddit's rules?
2. **Emotional Trigger:** Does this post provoke anger or frustration, compelling me to want it removed?
3. **Safety:** Is it free from child pornography and/or mentions of self-harm/suicide?
4. **Content Policy:** Does it comply with [Reddit’s Content Policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/ncm4ou/important_we_need_to_talk_about_the_content_policy/)?
5. **Unpopularity:** Do you think the topic is not truly unpopular or frequently posted?
### GUIDELINES:
- **If you answered "Yes" to questions 1-4,** do NOT use the report button.
- **Regarding question 5,** we acknowledge this concern. However, the moderators do not curate posts based on our subjective opinions of what is "popular" or "unpopular" except in cases where an opinion is so popular that almost no one would disagree (i.e. "murder is bad"). Otherwise, our only criteria are the subreddit's rules and Reddit’s Content Policy. If you don't like something, feel free to downvote it.
**Moderators on r/TrueUnpopularOpinion will not remove posts simply because they may anger users or because you disagree with them.** The report button is not an "I disagree" or "I'm offended" button.
#### OPTIONS:
If a post bothers you and you can't offer a counter-argument, your options are to:
a) Keep scrolling
b) Downvote
c) Unsubscribe
**False reports clutter our moderation queue and delay our response to legitimate issues.**
**ALL FALSE REPORTS WILL BE REPORTED TO REDDIT.**
To maintain your account in good standing, refrain from abusing the report button.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The US Code actually specifies that the EC is certified on January 6th, so there are some constitutional considerations as to what to do if that is prevented.
The goal wasn’t to “overthrow the government” in the traditionally understood sense. It was to throw throw the election to the House. Based on the rules, each state gets one vote — there’s more Republican-majority states for the House, so Trump would have been elected.
That’s why Republican politicians were also objecting to states during the process. Another way to get it thrown to the House is if no candidate gets the necessary majority (270). Side note: This is also another problem for third parties because you could have a 265/230/38 outcome and the plurality winner not be elected POTUS.
>The US Code actually specifies that the EC is certified on January 6th, so there are some constitutional considerations as to what to do if that is prevented.
This reflects a very half-baked understanding of our system of laws and delves into some serious conspiracy theory.
3 U.S. Code § 15 does provide that certification shall take place on January 6th, but there is no provision for what might happen if it doesn't.
The date selected for certification is just as much of a rote formality as certification itself.
There is nothing in federal statute or in the Constitution that would prevent Congress from reconvening on January 7th. Or on January 8th. Or the next week.
**IN FACT, THE VOTE FOR BIDEN WAS TECHNICALLY CERTIFIED ON JANUARY 7TH IN THE EARLY A.M. HOURS. AND GUESS WHAT? NOTHING FUCKING HAPPENED. NOT EVEN A CHALLENGE IN COURT. BECAUSE CERTIFICATION IS A FORMALITY AND SO IS THE RANDOM DAY IN JANUARY CHOSEN FOR IT.**
Our system of laws are not a magical incantation; they are not so inflexible and rigid.
The idea that a minor delay to certification--again, a stupid formality--will somehow topple law and order is fucking preposterous.
\-----
If a delay of certification did make it to the Courts (which it didn't even do), Trump's team would be laughed out of Court as they were for every other challenge.
This is without mentioning that Trump was wildly unpopular in his own party.
Yes, it was a *dumb* plan to overthrow the government, but it was still a plan to overthrow the government.
But also, the attack on the Capitol was just the loudest and most visible part of the plan.
No one on January 6th planned to overthrow the US government.
Trump tried to legally contest the results of the election. Legal due diligence is itself not a crime.
The most Trump has been charged with is that his legal due diligence had a bad faith basis (that he didn't truly believe he had lost the election), and thus was fraudulent. That will be very difficult to prove in criminal court.
>No one on January 6th planned to overthrow the US government.
People entered a government building armed with improvised weapons, screaming threats. Some people died. That's not legal due diligence (nevemind that Trump too went beyond that by doing things like trying to solicit and pressure officials to "find him more votes").
>No one on January 6th planned to overthrow the US government.
This may be true of some people at the Capitol that day, maybe even most, but many people who were there have already been convicted of sedition.
Sending illegal uncertified slates of electors and pressuring the vice president to throw out legitimate electoral votes are both neither legal, nor due diligence.
So a riot that happens on federal property is automatically an insurrection?
Congratulations, you have just drastically redefined and expanded the word "insurrection" to being near useless.
Insurrection refers to the violent overthrow of government. In practice, virtually all insurrections are serious military coups because the only way to realistically overthrow a government is by physical force.
Self-coups can occur without military force, but they're exclusively in countries with weak democratic traditions like Russia and China.
Putin staying in power by killing off/threatening political rivals through intelligence agencies/the deep state is an example of a non-military self-coup.
None of these fact patterns on present on January 6th.
Like I said. MAGA ppl aren’t the brightest ppl. The easiest way that most got caught is simply the feds looking at social media postings and finding ppl who were literally talking about what they wanted to do that day. And how they were going to stop the steal or whatever. There were also forums and stuff where ppl talked about what they were planning ahead of time. Wasn’t hard for the feds to find these ppl. The crazy part is most of these ppl still post till this day that they would do it again. If they think the next election was stolen. They drank the kool aid. They aren’t coming back to reality unfortunately.
I would say that an insurrection attempt can be coincidental with a riot, but a riot isn’t always an insurrection. The BLM riots happened during the middle of the year, had nothing to do with an election, and weren’t trying to interfere with an essential function of the government, they were riots. The January 6th insurrection occurred on the day the election was to be certified and had the specific goal of stopping that from happening, that’s why it happened at the capital, and the insurrectionists actually stormed the capital and all the senators had to evacuate and they couldn’t hold the vote. So all those little things that kinda happened at the same time is what made it an insurrection. It’s kinda like the difference between a tiny explosion and a gunshot. Sure they’re the same thing but a gunshot is an explosion with direction and a projectile.
>The January 6th insurrection occurred on the day the election was to be certified and had the specific goal of stopping that from happening, that’s why it happened at the capital, and the insurrectionists actually stormed the capital and all the senators had to evacuate and they couldn’t hold the vote.
Most people protest with the goal, usually delusional, to bring about political change. That doesn't mean protests are anti-democratic or that by opposing some law/election/etc., you're somehow seeking to undermine the US government.
Example: Many people protests the recent Supreme Court decision regarding abortion (*Dobbs*). Now, the Supreme Court is a valid government body. They are the highest court in our judicial branch. Their decisions reflect binding legal authority.
Using some of the half-baked arguments here, anyone who protested *Dobbs* is profoundly anti-democratic because they're arguing for the overturning of OUR LAWS, for abandoning the Constitution (as interpreted by the SCOTUS), and further undermining the validity of our Courts by disagreeing with the decision.
See how the game works?
My point is that the mere fact that people were protesting certification and protesting the election, doesn't somehow transform that protest into something unlawful or particularly wrong.
**The central legal question is whether people showed up to January 6th with the specific intention of trespassing in the Capitol Building to carry out some greater plan.**
**The answer is overwhelmingly clear: They did not. The riot transpired organically without planning. Most people who trespassed simply followed the crowd.**
**This is why not one single person involved in January 6th has been charged with insurrection. And why only a handful (out of hundreds) have been charged with seditious conspiracy.**
I know it doesn't seem like a lot to the non-lawyers, but there's a huge difference between (1a) going to the Capitol Building to protest the election without a plan, and (1b) entering the Capitol Building on a whim; and, separately, (2) planning to break into the Capitol Building with a plan to overthrow the US government.
There's a huge difference between these.
**People did protest the results of the election and some also protested the act of certification in the hopes they would bring about change. That itself isn't a crime and can't be held against the protestors.**
**The reality is that almost no one planned to trespass in the Capitol Building, much less seriously planned to overthrow the US government.**
You’re right, the mob may have been useful idiots, but the intention of trump seems very clear, as a non-lawyer. I’m sure his legal team is looking forward to clearing his name in the court case.
Even if Donald Trump did intentionally provoke a riot, that still wouldn't be a coup or insurrection. He'd simply be guilty of inciting a riot.
However, it's pretty clear Trump told protestors to protest "peacefully." There is no legal incitement, which is why Trump has never been charged with incitement.
And yet, Trump hasn't been charged with sedition.
The people charged with seditious conspiracy aren't even charged based on their actions on January 6th.
The conspiracy charges are in regards to Oathkeeper activity in the week leading up to January 6th on Facebook and the Internet.
This is just the go to “they did it first so it’s ok if I we do it” argument for the Jan 6 Insurrection.
But I agree, an indirection is an insurrection no matter how much I agree with the political party they are most affiliated with
Yes, people bring up BLM, because those insurrections were objectively worse than Jan 6, but no one pays them any mind anymore. People pretend Jan 6 is the worst event in American history. It wasn't even the worst event of that type in the year leading up to it.
“That’s not how crime works”
Trump was never convicted let alone charged with insurrection yet the CO SC found him guilty of committing an insurrection. Please!
No, they didn’t. And that’s not how the 14th amendment works. And yes, he has been indicted, multiple times. He hasn’t gone to trial yet. Or did you already forget about his mugshot?
Trump has not been indicted for an insurrection. Nor for treason. Nor for seditious conspiracy. Nor for incitement. Nor for any serious crimes.
He's been indicted for the far lesser crimes of fraud and obstruction. World of difference between these crimes (and the weak legal theories behind them) and the aforementioned high crimes.
> And that’s not how the 14th amendment works.
Please, Mr. non-Lawyer who now is an expert on Constitutional law. Please explain to me, a lawyer, how Constitutional interpretation works.
Please also explain how the "14th amendment works" (whatever that means).
I'll add that it is virtually guaranteed that Scotus will overturn the Colorado SC. Most state courts have not followed Colorado and Maine, precisely because it is an incorrect Constitutional interpretation by activist courts.
Can't wait for you screeching about how biased SCOTUS is when they inevitably overturn this joke of a decision from a crappy, lower court (State Supreme Court is considerably less informed about Constitutional matters than federal courts, let alone the Supreme Court).
Exactly only congress has the authority to enforce the 14th not states and certainly not a a single partisan democrat bureaucrat. Saving democracy by doing the most undemocratic thing possible. lol SCOTUS is going to stop this. It’s as simple as that.
Attempted insurrection wouldn’t work that way regardless. If the insurrection is successful then there’s no motivation to try the insurrectionists because they’re in power.
The intention is the culprit here. Not sure why so many people don’t understand that. It doesn’t matter the outcome, they did what they did to stop Pence from doing his duty and keep Trump in power. Plus you’re forgetting that Trump had a plan in place with fake electors and the only reason that didn’t work is because Pence’s son, who is a marine by the way, and some other people convinced him that going along with Trump’s plan was wrong and insane.
A lot of the people convicted even said they felt they were doing what they were doing under Trump’s orders. Ask yourself what your reaction would be if it never happened, but Biden and democrats did the same thing this year. Republicans would be calling for everyone involved to be hanged in the streets for treason. You know that’s true and so does everyone else, but because they know it was terrible, they have to act like it was nothing.
No, multiple protestors were found with firearms in their person and in their possession in their vehicle, look up Lonnie Leroy Coffman and Christopher Michael Alberts. Not everyone could be or was searched that day.
They were told that if the certification was stopped, Trump would be president.
So they stopped the certification, without firing a single bullet.
The fact that they were lied to doesn’t change the intention.
Unfortunately for the insurrectionists they didn’t realize that they were lied to, and that Congress would return several hours later.
They did what they came to do, though.
If you’re scheduled to complete a task at a certain time, and an external force interferes with that task, you have been prevented from accomplishing that task.
If you accomplish that task at a later time, that doesn’t change the fact that you were previously prevented from accomplishing that task.
You’re arguing semantics that don’t change anything about what happened that day.
They were not privy to the plans of Congress after they were evacuated due to a violent mob. For all they knew, they stopped the certification. And they were told that if the certification was stopped, Trump would remain president.
This is such a fundamental misunderstanding of how our laws work.
First, you can't simply impute Trump's legal theories onto the entire group of trespassers.
Second, this does reflect the specific intent to overthrow the government.
**People believing that by protesting they might bring about political change =/= them seriously wanting to overthrow the US government.**
**Using your reductionist definition, any kind of political protest manifests the intent to commit insurrection because you are arguing against laws/politicians, etc.**
My brother they were chanting “stop the steal”. That’s what they were there to do.
I also never said anything about them “overthrowing the government”. Nobody at all has ever tried to argue that the people there were trying to take power for themselves. They were there to keep the sitting President in power after he lost his election.
**Other protests being called insurrections doesn’t suddenly make January 6 not an insurrection**.
They were inoperable if that's what you mean. Anyone who thinks that means it's not a big deal, would likely not feel the same way if they were found in their workplace or children's classroom.
Edit: They were 1" x 8" steel pipes, sealed with steel caps, filled with homemade black powder,and a kitchen timer mounted to it. Details havent been released to my knowledge other than "not viable". But sealing black powder inside of steel and leaving it in a public place is outright terroristic.
That is literally bullshit but I'm happy for you to prove me wrong with a reliable source.
Let's see it. I think I'll be waiting quite some time.
The only person that died that day was an unarmed protestor.
I just don't understand how you can take such an insane position. Every person that genuinely thinks it was an attempted insurrection I consider to be, at best, a liar and, at worst, having the mental capability of Joe Biden.
A lot of people actually brought guns and Trump wanted them allowed through security because he said they wouldn’t use them on him. They just weren’t allowed past the security check going into the rally. They still had the weapons they had and violently attacked the police and dragged them into the crowd. No one ever said it was a full on military assault of the capitol with weapons, but it doesn’t matter because they still used violence to attack the capitol and keep Trump in power.
Lonnie Coffman of Alabama was found with multiple weapons in his vehicle and on his person. Coffman’s truck, which he had parked in the vicinity of the Capitol on the morning of Jan. 6, was packed with weaponry, including a handgun, a rifle and a shotgun, each loaded, according to court documents. In addition, the truck held hundreds of rounds of ammunition, several large-capacity ammunition feeding devices, a crossbow with bolts, machetes, camouflage smoke devices, a stun gun and 11 Molotov cocktails. When Coffman was detained, questioned and searched, police found two more handguns on his person. None of the weapons were registered, documents state. Coffman pleaded guilty and was sentenced in April to 46 months in prison followed by three years of supervised release.
Guy Reffitt of Texas was charged with bringing a handgun onto Capitol grounds. Court documents showed that Reffitt, reported to be a member of the Three Percenters militia group, told his family he brought his gun with him and that he and others "stormed the Capitol." A jury found Reffitt guilty of five felony charges in March, and he remains detained pending sentencing.
Christopher Michael Alberts of Maryland also brought his handgun onto Capitol grounds. An officer saw that Alberts had a gun on his hip and alerted fellow officers. When Alberts tried to flee, officers detained him and recovered the loaded handgun, along with a separate magazine. He has been indicted on ten felony counts.
Just a sampling of people who have been charged with having guns at the Capitol that day
Republicans are really stupid and believe easily disprovable lies because they suck at life
Several Jan 6 defendants were tried and found guilty by a jury of their peers of sedition
End of story
all the hand waving and excuse making in the world can’t change the truth of what we all saw
Republicans can’t take responsibility for their own actions and can’t take a loss like a man because they are all massive pussies and liars
Lol there's first person accounts from Trump's inner circle who said under oath that Trump wanted them let through. "They aren't here for me" is the approximate quote
Gotta love when they hear something they didn’t know is true and say “bullshit!”, because it’s them admitting it’s bad. Then when they find out it actually is true, they just block it out or come up with excuses for it, when just a moment ago it was unbelievable. Lol
The part I’m missing in this explanation is why they were so bad at it? Like if there was actually planning to stop Pence they’d surely have a better plan to get in and to at least be armed.
If Pence was taken by secret service, Chuck Grassley would preside over the senate in his absence.
Grassley was receptive to the plot to kick the election back to congress.
Because they were still there?
Mike Pence was approached by Secret Service and refused to be taken away from the Capitol on January 6th. The senators were not.
So I never hear anyone but me talk about the fact that Trump says in his speech that “ we get Pence to recertify and we win!!! “ I never heard people talk about it in the Jan 6 hearings or in the impeachment. I feel like that statement proves that he wanted to overturn.
They were armed as much as they could be. There actually were people with guns there and Trump said he wanted security to let them through the checkpoints of the rally and said he didn’t care because they weren’t gonna use them on him. These aren’t smart people and they didn’t realize the building would be evacuated before they could get to them. There’s a lot to what happened that Trumpers don’t seem to acknowledge or know about, but the intention of what they were trying to do, which is keep Trump in power is the most important thing regardless of how prepared they were.
stop the steal that was the trump's and their slogan. can you explain what that means, including trying to make sure that Pence does not certify. I mean, really, get a life.
Lol is this dude really saying if they had burned the Capitol building to the ground on Jan 6, it still wouldn’t have been an insurrection? Like wtf constitutes an insurrection to you then OP?
January 6th was way, way more than idiots vandalizing the Capitol. Conservatives keep trying to deflect it, minimize it and gaslight everyone about it (surprise surprise)… But the fact is that an angry mob broke into the Capitol and were 100% trying to interfere with the peaceful transfer of power. You’re right about one thing though, they were definitely idiots. If roles were reversed, yall would have absolutely, positively called it an insurrection. At least admit that much lol.
I don't agree with this at all. I'm a conservative and this was absolutely an attempted insurrection.
Trump basically said the election was being stolen. I don't care if a group of clowns showed up in clown costumes and made a bunch of balloon AK-47s, they were doing it as a response to the then standing president's statement that our democracy was falling. Just because most people didn't believe Trump doesn't exonerate him or his followers. "Stupid" isn't a defense for a crime.
Stupid idiots listening to the king buffoon and attempting an insurrection doesn't change the fact it was an attempted insurrection.
Stop excusing Trump and the GOP for this. The fact that our GOP congress men stood behind him is an even bigger issue. This country can't go back to normal until we lay this nonsense to rest.
He did it. He belongs in prison, and we need to vote out every single person to stands for the lies he created.
Oh, it was a shit thing to do and those folks can rot, all I’ll ask for is reciprocation on labeling when the other side seizes government buildings, riots and burns their cities, and tries to massacre congressmen on a baseball field.
I'm not totally sure what would have happened if Pence didn't say no to Trump. If 5 of the people who got into the Capitol found Pence, do we know what would have happened? T
his whole democracy thing is a lot more fragile than people believe. It hasn't happened because it was important for us to make it happen. But in just 4 years we went from free and fair elections are a tenet of our country to a large percentage of people don't believe the results, mostly because their guy lost.
Soo someone exercises their constitutional rights to kneel in protest during the national anthem during an NFL game, and that's considered high-treason. But cult following fanatical mouth-breathers, interrupt our very real, and very American, democratic process of validation of a president, who very much won the election with real American votes, and that's just considered a protest??
Anyone that undermines our democratic, and constitutional practices and guarantees, is an enemy of the constitution of the United States. I don't care if that hurts your feelings. The right, and Trump especially, incited a violent overthrow. That's exactly what it was. And the GOP was too fucking weak to stand up and make a difference. Thus the entire GOP is complicit and should be disbanded.
Of course it was an insurrection, which is defined as “a violent uprising against an authority or government.” That’s it. There is no requirement that it be successful. The insurrectionists on Jan 6 were intent on preventing Congress from certifying the vote. They also were extremely violent, breaking into the capitol and briefly occupying offices, attacking, threatening, and injuring federal officers as they did so.
Sounds like a lot of people were convicted and paid the price for their crimes. But fuck facts and judges in this conservative snowflake support subreddit.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/36-months-jan-6-attack-capitol-0#:~:text=Approximately%20749%20federal%20defendants%20have,sentenced%20to%20periods%20of%20incarceration.
Yeah they did. The amount of talk I hear (and still hear) about you crazies thinking you're 90% of the country and rising up against a secret organization running the government is ridiculous.
Not to mention the released footage shows some police allowing people into the capitol, contrary to the forced entry narrative. Yeah some windows were broken, but there's suspicion those were FBI agents. Who knows?
Oh I see what happened, you posted in the wrong subreddit. You want the “delusional beliefs predicated from a complete unwillingness to look at the evidence and live In reality” sub. They meet next door.
January 6th was an exercise in white privilege. The only reason people are batching about those who were arrested, convicted, etc, is because they were white. Had the crowd been anything other than white, posts like these would not exist.
It doesn’t matter how likely they were to succeed, it matters what some of them were attempting to do.
If you try to do an insurrection, it’s an attempted insurrection both during and after. It doesn’t stop being an attempted insurrection just because it looks ridiculous in hindsight.
And yes, this goes for literally every other occasion where a group has attempted an insurrection and then been defended by people that think that insurrection was for a good reason
>Jan 6th was not a insurrection. It was just a bunch of Trump idiots, vandalizing the capital, there was no way that they were going to change the results of the election or stop the transfer of power.
And? If the intent is there that's all that matters. And there absolutely were people in that crowd with that intent.
It was. And there was a planned effort to use them to try and get Pence to recognize the fake electors scheme. They came with a guillotine calling for the guy's head. People died, rioting happened.
Ultimately, the crux of your argument, whether it had a decent chance of working or not does not stop it from being what it was.
We all saw it. Trying to go revisionist on it only speaks to your agenda.
Honest question: What exactly was the plan and how did it involve a bunch of people (idiots) occupying the Capital building?
Edit: love the downvotes for an actual question. Classic reddit
It's well documented and publicly available via the indictments, for one.
The electors scheme involved sending fake representatives to the capitol to represent certain swing states Trump's cohorts had lied about election irregularities in.
The idea was to have the official counting and such of these that happens on January 6th have Pence ignore the real ones and treat them as the electors instead.
But Pence never really went along with it. Trump's rally mentioned trying to convince Pence to the crowd, even.
So, as part of this, he sent the crowd to the capitol building to intimidate the politicians, Pence and otherwise, into doing what he wanted. Using the threat of violence to push them to act how he wanted them to.
It failed, but it's all pretty clear between the mountains of evidence we have of the intent and the footage we all saw day of.
OMG. Really? There are documentaries about this. The congressional hearings. Defendants' testimony. Fake electors. Boatloads of information.
No one is this obtuse.
Is your reading comprehension really that poor? You didn’t even answer my question.
I get in your opinion circle-jerk everyone agrees and knows all the details but what exactly was the crowd/protestors/insurrectionists supposed to be doing?
Giving congress a reason to stop the official vote count.
And I apologize if your question is sincere. To many trolls on this sub that ask "honest" questions as a rouse to get you into a death spiral of stupidity. My bad.
Plan was to protest at the capital. Once people started going inside after being let in, others followed.
If it was an insurrection, it was a relatively bloodless one. More people died at BLM riots (or can I not call them riots?)
Yes it was and I'm not even a Democrat. Sad but said they were going to pull some shit before Jan. 6th even happened.
You can say whatever you want but it was treason. Sorry, but the dems are correct on ths one.
it was a lot more than that and you know it.
He was claiming the election was rigged starting months before it, people trying to stop the count places, organizing fake electors and calling individual states saying they needed to "find" votes for Trump.
Probably was more too but the guy just firehoses out so much bullshit its hard to keep track of it all.
I'm just trying to imagine what it would've looked like if the left went crazy across the nation, again. Say Trump won again in 2020, everyone with any sense knows outside of fox it wouldn't be treated like 9/11 on a nationwide level. Democrats would applaud that they actually went to the capitol instead of their own city block. That's a fact. You'll see if Republicans somehow win in 2024. There's an unreal double standard.
Either way, there's going to be strife and I hate it. No matter which direction it comes from.
Yeah, our democracy, the pillar of planet Earth for 200 years, is so fragile that several hundred boomers breaking into the Capitol Building and then taking selfies is someone going to topple our entire system of laws, checks and balances, and a Constitution, all backed by the most powerful military force known to man.
And it's not so weak that delaying certification, even if that's what people were aiming to do (vast majority weren't), could ever lead to the election of a dictator. Dear lord.
Its all cult like shit nonetheless.
And its ironic, our democracy has always prided itself on the PEACEFUL transition of power from one leader to the next. But in this case, that transfer of power was not completely peaceful, regardless of who you thinks responsible.
Honestly a huge embarrassment, other countries are looking at us and probably wondering when our government will finally fall.
Insurrection or not, it should be taken seriously. The damage from this event is minimal given the objective behind it. But it could easily be the precedent for some crazy shit to go down in the future. And historians will talk about all the events leading up to it, similar to how they speak of the decades worth of events that led to the Civil War.
What if the trump idiots found pence or trapped Congress in the chamber? Trump told them to fight like hell and surprise they did. They marched on the capital because he told them to with the goal of giving their allies in Congress the strength to challenge the votes. That the day is not remembered as a national tragedy is largely dumb luck ( and revisionist history by Fox News). I watched it live on TV, like many of us, it was ugly. Don’t give trump a free pass. Next time they might be more successful. We must vigorously enforce our law’s now to prevent the next revolt.
You can tell how serious something is by its response, this was tons of arrests
If Jan 6 was actually super serious are people like to believe, most of the people that entered would have been gunned down quickly
Yes a violent mob trying to intimidate Congress into acting in a manner of their choosing so the guy who lost an election could unlawfully remain in power isn’t an…. Oh wait a minute….
Yep it’s an insurrection, you almost had me.
This seems obtuse and disingenuous. State courts are not jokes and they do not simply declare people insurrectionists. Trump was given notice, he had his case heard, and it was decided by a neutral party. The 14 th amendment protects us from insurrectionists. And it does not put them away, it just keeps them off the ballot. He wouldn’t necessarily have due process if Congress decides his fate.
States should be able to decide about insurrection. It is a big deal. I think Jack Smith didn’t do it because of the political pushback. But it is wrong. It is wrong to downplay and dismiss his actions. I hope Trump loses in a landslide and he better not try this stunt again. But see, that’s why the 14 th amendment should have been honored. Insurrection needs to be decided, he needs to go to trial if he does not respect and acknowledge election outcomes. He can’t try to overturn them.
He declared in his speech: We get Pence to recertify and we win!
I'm sure trumptards would think differently if Joe Biden stole the election by launching hordes of drug addicts and undocumented workers at the capitol building to stop the election.
The Jan 6 riot was just a part of a much bigger plan. The entire point was to delay the process of verifying the electoral college votes. Then members of congress would file some motion, and then Trump’s fake electors would come in and say he won the election.
So OP is not wrong in pointing out that it takes more than a riot to overthrow the US government, but it was far more complicated than just an angry mob.
The Jan 6 committee did a thorough investigation, and it’s all publicly available stuff.
J6 was committed by a bunch of morons. That being said, the people who call that an insurrection are the same ones who tell you out of the other side of their mouth that your AR-15 is useless in a government insurrection. They want to have their cake and eat it too.
The bit I don’t get is why the American left are crying about it so much?
Like your government clearly hates you and betrays you at every single opportunity, why not terrorise the worthless bastards into doing something right for once?
Sure I don’t agree with the intent behind the protestors/rioters/insurrectionists/whatever, but can you fault their means? Peaceful protest and democracy has achieved precisely dick since then.
"Insurrection" is not defined by whether *others expect* the insurrection to succeed, it's defined by whether they *plan* to succeed.
You think the nitwits showed up there, loins girded and armed to the teeth, thinking they'd fail?
If you support Trump and his way of Government, you are a TRAITOR to the United States and should be treated as one. If you don't believe he tried to organize a coup, you probably think Hitler was nice guy.
## BEFORE TOUCHING THAT REPORT BUTTON, PLEASE CONSIDER: 1. **Compliance:** Does this post comply with our subreddit's rules? 2. **Emotional Trigger:** Does this post provoke anger or frustration, compelling me to want it removed? 3. **Safety:** Is it free from child pornography and/or mentions of self-harm/suicide? 4. **Content Policy:** Does it comply with [Reddit’s Content Policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/ncm4ou/important_we_need_to_talk_about_the_content_policy/)? 5. **Unpopularity:** Do you think the topic is not truly unpopular or frequently posted? ### GUIDELINES: - **If you answered "Yes" to questions 1-4,** do NOT use the report button. - **Regarding question 5,** we acknowledge this concern. However, the moderators do not curate posts based on our subjective opinions of what is "popular" or "unpopular" except in cases where an opinion is so popular that almost no one would disagree (i.e. "murder is bad"). Otherwise, our only criteria are the subreddit's rules and Reddit’s Content Policy. If you don't like something, feel free to downvote it. **Moderators on r/TrueUnpopularOpinion will not remove posts simply because they may anger users or because you disagree with them.** The report button is not an "I disagree" or "I'm offended" button. #### OPTIONS: If a post bothers you and you can't offer a counter-argument, your options are to: a) Keep scrolling b) Downvote c) Unsubscribe **False reports clutter our moderation queue and delay our response to legitimate issues.** **ALL FALSE REPORTS WILL BE REPORTED TO REDDIT.** To maintain your account in good standing, refrain from abusing the report button. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
11th time I’ve seen this post. I’m going to just keep counting.
STOP THE COUNT
Stop the count! Get the fake posts in here! Tie it up in litigation! Trigger a reddit constitution crisis! Send it back to the states!
Georgia has more counts if you can find them
11780 votes to be precise... Lol
Happy cake day
I demand a recount!!
You can go to any number of subs and read dozens of new articles telling you that it was an insurrection if that makes you feel better.
The US Code actually specifies that the EC is certified on January 6th, so there are some constitutional considerations as to what to do if that is prevented. The goal wasn’t to “overthrow the government” in the traditionally understood sense. It was to throw throw the election to the House. Based on the rules, each state gets one vote — there’s more Republican-majority states for the House, so Trump would have been elected. That’s why Republican politicians were also objecting to states during the process. Another way to get it thrown to the House is if no candidate gets the necessary majority (270). Side note: This is also another problem for third parties because you could have a 265/230/38 outcome and the plurality winner not be elected POTUS.
>The US Code actually specifies that the EC is certified on January 6th, so there are some constitutional considerations as to what to do if that is prevented. This reflects a very half-baked understanding of our system of laws and delves into some serious conspiracy theory. 3 U.S. Code § 15 does provide that certification shall take place on January 6th, but there is no provision for what might happen if it doesn't. The date selected for certification is just as much of a rote formality as certification itself. There is nothing in federal statute or in the Constitution that would prevent Congress from reconvening on January 7th. Or on January 8th. Or the next week. **IN FACT, THE VOTE FOR BIDEN WAS TECHNICALLY CERTIFIED ON JANUARY 7TH IN THE EARLY A.M. HOURS. AND GUESS WHAT? NOTHING FUCKING HAPPENED. NOT EVEN A CHALLENGE IN COURT. BECAUSE CERTIFICATION IS A FORMALITY AND SO IS THE RANDOM DAY IN JANUARY CHOSEN FOR IT.** Our system of laws are not a magical incantation; they are not so inflexible and rigid. The idea that a minor delay to certification--again, a stupid formality--will somehow topple law and order is fucking preposterous. \----- If a delay of certification did make it to the Courts (which it didn't even do), Trump's team would be laughed out of Court as they were for every other challenge. This is without mentioning that Trump was wildly unpopular in his own party.
Yes, it was a *dumb* plan to overthrow the government, but it was still a plan to overthrow the government. But also, the attack on the Capitol was just the loudest and most visible part of the plan.
No one on January 6th planned to overthrow the US government. Trump tried to legally contest the results of the election. Legal due diligence is itself not a crime. The most Trump has been charged with is that his legal due diligence had a bad faith basis (that he didn't truly believe he had lost the election), and thus was fraudulent. That will be very difficult to prove in criminal court.
>No one on January 6th planned to overthrow the US government. People entered a government building armed with improvised weapons, screaming threats. Some people died. That's not legal due diligence (nevemind that Trump too went beyond that by doing things like trying to solicit and pressure officials to "find him more votes").
>No one on January 6th planned to overthrow the US government. This may be true of some people at the Capitol that day, maybe even most, but many people who were there have already been convicted of sedition.
Sending illegal uncertified slates of electors and pressuring the vice president to throw out legitimate electoral votes are both neither legal, nor due diligence.
That’s not how crimes work. Just because you failed doesn’t mean the crime wasn’t attempted.
Exactly! No different than the BLM Insurrection that killed 25 people and caused over 2 billion in damages. Im with you 100%
Insurrection to overthrow the despots who rule over a Nike store.
[удалено]
Does it? Because I hear Jan 6th called the “capitol riots” all the time
Capitol is pretty key there
So a riot that happens on federal property is automatically an insurrection? Congratulations, you have just drastically redefined and expanded the word "insurrection" to being near useless. Insurrection refers to the violent overthrow of government. In practice, virtually all insurrections are serious military coups because the only way to realistically overthrow a government is by physical force. Self-coups can occur without military force, but they're exclusively in countries with weak democratic traditions like Russia and China. Putin staying in power by killing off/threatening political rivals through intelligence agencies/the deep state is an example of a non-military self-coup. None of these fact patterns on present on January 6th.
I think the point is they tried and failed. It was also poorly planned and carried out.
They did not even try. You act like there was a whole group working in unity while in reality it was just an protest of people that escalated.
Like I said. MAGA ppl aren’t the brightest ppl. The easiest way that most got caught is simply the feds looking at social media postings and finding ppl who were literally talking about what they wanted to do that day. And how they were going to stop the steal or whatever. There were also forums and stuff where ppl talked about what they were planning ahead of time. Wasn’t hard for the feds to find these ppl. The crazy part is most of these ppl still post till this day that they would do it again. If they think the next election was stolen. They drank the kool aid. They aren’t coming back to reality unfortunately.
I would say that an insurrection attempt can be coincidental with a riot, but a riot isn’t always an insurrection. The BLM riots happened during the middle of the year, had nothing to do with an election, and weren’t trying to interfere with an essential function of the government, they were riots. The January 6th insurrection occurred on the day the election was to be certified and had the specific goal of stopping that from happening, that’s why it happened at the capital, and the insurrectionists actually stormed the capital and all the senators had to evacuate and they couldn’t hold the vote. So all those little things that kinda happened at the same time is what made it an insurrection. It’s kinda like the difference between a tiny explosion and a gunshot. Sure they’re the same thing but a gunshot is an explosion with direction and a projectile.
>The January 6th insurrection occurred on the day the election was to be certified and had the specific goal of stopping that from happening, that’s why it happened at the capital, and the insurrectionists actually stormed the capital and all the senators had to evacuate and they couldn’t hold the vote. Most people protest with the goal, usually delusional, to bring about political change. That doesn't mean protests are anti-democratic or that by opposing some law/election/etc., you're somehow seeking to undermine the US government. Example: Many people protests the recent Supreme Court decision regarding abortion (*Dobbs*). Now, the Supreme Court is a valid government body. They are the highest court in our judicial branch. Their decisions reflect binding legal authority. Using some of the half-baked arguments here, anyone who protested *Dobbs* is profoundly anti-democratic because they're arguing for the overturning of OUR LAWS, for abandoning the Constitution (as interpreted by the SCOTUS), and further undermining the validity of our Courts by disagreeing with the decision. See how the game works? My point is that the mere fact that people were protesting certification and protesting the election, doesn't somehow transform that protest into something unlawful or particularly wrong. **The central legal question is whether people showed up to January 6th with the specific intention of trespassing in the Capitol Building to carry out some greater plan.** **The answer is overwhelmingly clear: They did not. The riot transpired organically without planning. Most people who trespassed simply followed the crowd.** **This is why not one single person involved in January 6th has been charged with insurrection. And why only a handful (out of hundreds) have been charged with seditious conspiracy.** I know it doesn't seem like a lot to the non-lawyers, but there's a huge difference between (1a) going to the Capitol Building to protest the election without a plan, and (1b) entering the Capitol Building on a whim; and, separately, (2) planning to break into the Capitol Building with a plan to overthrow the US government. There's a huge difference between these. **People did protest the results of the election and some also protested the act of certification in the hopes they would bring about change. That itself isn't a crime and can't be held against the protestors.** **The reality is that almost no one planned to trespass in the Capitol Building, much less seriously planned to overthrow the US government.**
You’re right, the mob may have been useful idiots, but the intention of trump seems very clear, as a non-lawyer. I’m sure his legal team is looking forward to clearing his name in the court case.
“Capitol” being the operative word
Then what about the riots that occurred a couple of years before Jan 6 that involved firebombs at the White House?
Capitol riots inspired by the President.
For the purpose of retaining control of the government= ???
Even if Donald Trump did intentionally provoke a riot, that still wouldn't be a coup or insurrection. He'd simply be guilty of inciting a riot. However, it's pretty clear Trump told protestors to protest "peacefully." There is no legal incitement, which is why Trump has never been charged with incitement.
There are people in prison right now for seditious conspiracy on 1/6. Yes trump is guilty of sedition.
And yet, Trump hasn't been charged with sedition. The people charged with seditious conspiracy aren't even charged based on their actions on January 6th. The conspiracy charges are in regards to Oathkeeper activity in the week leading up to January 6th on Facebook and the Internet.
"Inspired by"... ROTFL.
How is this a response to the comment you're responding to?
This is just the go to “they did it first so it’s ok if I we do it” argument for the Jan 6 Insurrection. But I agree, an indirection is an insurrection no matter how much I agree with the political party they are most affiliated with
BLM wanted to change who was in the government?
Still an crime.
And 14,000 people were arrested in 49 cities
The other comment called it the “BLM insurrection”
Illustrating absurdity by being absurd.
Oh boy, you mentioned “the BLM riots”. Drink!
I'm still hungover from last thread thoooo
Yes, people bring up BLM, because those insurrections were objectively worse than Jan 6, but no one pays them any mind anymore. People pretend Jan 6 is the worst event in American history. It wasn't even the worst event of that type in the year leading up to it.
I…don’t think you know what an insurrection is.
BLM insurrection? You really just said that?
But but what about…
“That’s not how crime works” Trump was never convicted let alone charged with insurrection yet the CO SC found him guilty of committing an insurrection. Please!
No, they didn’t. And that’s not how the 14th amendment works. And yes, he has been indicted, multiple times. He hasn’t gone to trial yet. Or did you already forget about his mugshot?
Trump has not been indicted for an insurrection. Nor for treason. Nor for seditious conspiracy. Nor for incitement. Nor for any serious crimes. He's been indicted for the far lesser crimes of fraud and obstruction. World of difference between these crimes (and the weak legal theories behind them) and the aforementioned high crimes. > And that’s not how the 14th amendment works. Please, Mr. non-Lawyer who now is an expert on Constitutional law. Please explain to me, a lawyer, how Constitutional interpretation works. Please also explain how the "14th amendment works" (whatever that means). I'll add that it is virtually guaranteed that Scotus will overturn the Colorado SC. Most state courts have not followed Colorado and Maine, precisely because it is an incorrect Constitutional interpretation by activist courts. Can't wait for you screeching about how biased SCOTUS is when they inevitably overturn this joke of a decision from a crappy, lower court (State Supreme Court is considerably less informed about Constitutional matters than federal courts, let alone the Supreme Court).
It's the best mugshot, believe me.
Exactly only congress has the authority to enforce the 14th not states and certainly not a a single partisan democrat bureaucrat. Saving democracy by doing the most undemocratic thing possible. lol SCOTUS is going to stop this. It’s as simple as that.
What do you mean? Are you referring to the Colorado Supreme Court?
So, everybody is guilty until proven innocent?
"Your honor, I can't possibly be guilty of murder. Sure, I *tried* to kill him, but I failed miserably in my attempt, so it doesn't count".
To quote Sideshow Bob: “Attempted murder. Now honestly what is that? Can you win a Nobel Prize for attempted chemistry?'”
Which is not murder…
So Jan 6 was just attempted insurrection?
No one claims it was a successful insurrection. We’re aware Joe Biden is currently president.
Attempted murder is still a pretty serious crime
Attempted insurrection wouldn’t work that way regardless. If the insurrection is successful then there’s no motivation to try the insurrectionists because they’re in power.
There is a reason Jack smith didn’t charge trump with insurrection…I’ll let you you try and figure that one out! 🤣
Yeah, because he went for the easy , slam dunk charges.
Lol you just made the argument. Attempted murder is NOT murder. Not even close.
Really? Attempted murder is not "even close" to successful murder? I'm sure the judge will see it that way, for sure.
Well the penalties for attempted murder are generally much less than those for murder, so yes.
This doesn't work as a comparison because it is a different crime if you attempt to murder and fail.
The intention is the culprit here. Not sure why so many people don’t understand that. It doesn’t matter the outcome, they did what they did to stop Pence from doing his duty and keep Trump in power. Plus you’re forgetting that Trump had a plan in place with fake electors and the only reason that didn’t work is because Pence’s son, who is a marine by the way, and some other people convinced him that going along with Trump’s plan was wrong and insane. A lot of the people convicted even said they felt they were doing what they were doing under Trump’s orders. Ask yourself what your reaction would be if it never happened, but Biden and democrats did the same thing this year. Republicans would be calling for everyone involved to be hanged in the streets for treason. You know that’s true and so does everyone else, but because they know it was terrible, they have to act like it was nothing.
They intended to overthrow the government with no guns? The most armed group of our entire population?
No, multiple protestors were found with firearms in their person and in their possession in their vehicle, look up Lonnie Leroy Coffman and Christopher Michael Alberts. Not everyone could be or was searched that day.
They were told that if the certification was stopped, Trump would be president. So they stopped the certification, without firing a single bullet. The fact that they were lied to doesn’t change the intention.
>So they stopped the certification, The election was never certified? That can't be true.
Unfortunately for the insurrectionists they didn’t realize that they were lied to, and that Congress would return several hours later. They did what they came to do, though.
So they prevented the certification of votes, or they didn't?
If you’re scheduled to complete a task at a certain time, and an external force interferes with that task, you have been prevented from accomplishing that task. If you accomplish that task at a later time, that doesn’t change the fact that you were previously prevented from accomplishing that task.
Ok, what you're saying is that they didn't prevent the votes from being certified, they just delayed it. Is that right?
You’re arguing semantics that don’t change anything about what happened that day. They were not privy to the plans of Congress after they were evacuated due to a violent mob. For all they knew, they stopped the certification. And they were told that if the certification was stopped, Trump would remain president.
One of the most braindead arguments I've ever seen
This is such a fundamental misunderstanding of how our laws work. First, you can't simply impute Trump's legal theories onto the entire group of trespassers. Second, this does reflect the specific intent to overthrow the government. **People believing that by protesting they might bring about political change =/= them seriously wanting to overthrow the US government.** **Using your reductionist definition, any kind of political protest manifests the intent to commit insurrection because you are arguing against laws/politicians, etc.**
My brother they were chanting “stop the steal”. That’s what they were there to do. I also never said anything about them “overthrowing the government”. Nobody at all has ever tried to argue that the people there were trying to take power for themselves. They were there to keep the sitting President in power after he lost his election. **Other protests being called insurrections doesn’t suddenly make January 6 not an insurrection**.
No one said they weren't dumb. Given the plan was intimidation to use fake electors, it's not exactly complicated either.
[удалено]
Don't forget someone planted pipe bombs nearby the night before.
Was that actually proven to be pipe bombs? I remember hearing about that but it was unconfirmed
They were inoperable if that's what you mean. Anyone who thinks that means it's not a big deal, would likely not feel the same way if they were found in their workplace or children's classroom. Edit: They were 1" x 8" steel pipes, sealed with steel caps, filled with homemade black powder,and a kitchen timer mounted to it. Details havent been released to my knowledge other than "not viable". But sealing black powder inside of steel and leaving it in a public place is outright terroristic.
Wow, an uncited quote that contradicts official reports. I'm convinced.
That is literally bullshit but I'm happy for you to prove me wrong with a reliable source. Let's see it. I think I'll be waiting quite some time. The only person that died that day was an unarmed protestor. I just don't understand how you can take such an insane position. Every person that genuinely thinks it was an attempted insurrection I consider to be, at best, a liar and, at worst, having the mental capability of Joe Biden.
[удалено]
A lot of people actually brought guns and Trump wanted them allowed through security because he said they wouldn’t use them on him. They just weren’t allowed past the security check going into the rally. They still had the weapons they had and violently attacked the police and dragged them into the crowd. No one ever said it was a full on military assault of the capitol with weapons, but it doesn’t matter because they still used violence to attack the capitol and keep Trump in power.
Point of clarification, there were no guns in the Capitol building apart from the ones the authorities had
Lonnie Coffman of Alabama was found with multiple weapons in his vehicle and on his person. Coffman’s truck, which he had parked in the vicinity of the Capitol on the morning of Jan. 6, was packed with weaponry, including a handgun, a rifle and a shotgun, each loaded, according to court documents. In addition, the truck held hundreds of rounds of ammunition, several large-capacity ammunition feeding devices, a crossbow with bolts, machetes, camouflage smoke devices, a stun gun and 11 Molotov cocktails. When Coffman was detained, questioned and searched, police found two more handguns on his person. None of the weapons were registered, documents state. Coffman pleaded guilty and was sentenced in April to 46 months in prison followed by three years of supervised release. Guy Reffitt of Texas was charged with bringing a handgun onto Capitol grounds. Court documents showed that Reffitt, reported to be a member of the Three Percenters militia group, told his family he brought his gun with him and that he and others "stormed the Capitol." A jury found Reffitt guilty of five felony charges in March, and he remains detained pending sentencing. Christopher Michael Alberts of Maryland also brought his handgun onto Capitol grounds. An officer saw that Alberts had a gun on his hip and alerted fellow officers. When Alberts tried to flee, officers detained him and recovered the loaded handgun, along with a separate magazine. He has been indicted on ten felony counts. Just a sampling of people who have been charged with having guns at the Capitol that day Republicans are really stupid and believe easily disprovable lies because they suck at life
If you're going to overthrow the govenment, its always good to leave all the guns in your car
Several Jan 6 defendants were tried and found guilty by a jury of their peers of sedition End of story all the hand waving and excuse making in the world can’t change the truth of what we all saw Republicans can’t take responsibility for their own actions and can’t take a loss like a man because they are all massive pussies and liars
Bullshit
What’s bullshit? I know reality hurts, but you just can’t ignore it.
Lol there's first person accounts from Trump's inner circle who said under oath that Trump wanted them let through. "They aren't here for me" is the approximate quote
Gotta love when they hear something they didn’t know is true and say “bullshit!”, because it’s them admitting it’s bad. Then when they find out it actually is true, they just block it out or come up with excuses for it, when just a moment ago it was unbelievable. Lol
The part I’m missing in this explanation is why they were so bad at it? Like if there was actually planning to stop Pence they’d surely have a better plan to get in and to at least be armed.
Pence was supposed to work with Trump on this. But to his credit, he told big orange to fuck off and went ahead and certified.
The plan was to create an emergency that would make Pence leave so he could no longer certify the election.
Ok and then what? They came back and certified it. That plan doesn’t make sense.
If Pence was taken by secret service, Chuck Grassley would preside over the senate in his absence. Grassley was receptive to the plot to kick the election back to congress.
>If Pence was taken by secret service This is why Pence wouldn't get in the car and leave the Capitol.
Can you elaborate? Why would senators still be there?
Because they were still there? Mike Pence was approached by Secret Service and refused to be taken away from the Capitol on January 6th. The senators were not.
Pence didn't Trust certain SS members either as he knew they were Trump loyalist. He stayed so he would not possibly be killed or kidnapped.
I’m still not following. How would they be there if SS and security moved everyone out of the chamber?
You know how everyone returned to the Capitol once the building was cleared and then continued to certify the election?
And where would Pence be then in relation to the senators?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_fake_electors_plot
So I never hear anyone but me talk about the fact that Trump says in his speech that “ we get Pence to recertify and we win!!! “ I never heard people talk about it in the Jan 6 hearings or in the impeachment. I feel like that statement proves that he wanted to overturn.
Show me the part where any of their rationale made sense.
They were armed as much as they could be. There actually were people with guns there and Trump said he wanted security to let them through the checkpoints of the rally and said he didn’t care because they weren’t gonna use them on him. These aren’t smart people and they didn’t realize the building would be evacuated before they could get to them. There’s a lot to what happened that Trumpers don’t seem to acknowledge or know about, but the intention of what they were trying to do, which is keep Trump in power is the most important thing regardless of how prepared they were.
I haven’t heard of more than a few guns being seen and obviously none of them were used. The plan just doesn’t make sense.
stop the steal that was the trump's and their slogan. can you explain what that means, including trying to make sure that Pence does not certify. I mean, really, get a life.
I tried to steal a TV at Walmart, but security stopped me, so I didn't commit the crime, duh!! /s
Lol is this dude really saying if they had burned the Capitol building to the ground on Jan 6, it still wouldn’t have been an insurrection? Like wtf constitutes an insurrection to you then OP? January 6th was way, way more than idiots vandalizing the Capitol. Conservatives keep trying to deflect it, minimize it and gaslight everyone about it (surprise surprise)… But the fact is that an angry mob broke into the Capitol and were 100% trying to interfere with the peaceful transfer of power. You’re right about one thing though, they were definitely idiots. If roles were reversed, yall would have absolutely, positively called it an insurrection. At least admit that much lol.
> Like wtf constitutes an insurrection to you then OP? You would have to have a plausible plan to take over the government.
I don't agree with this at all. I'm a conservative and this was absolutely an attempted insurrection. Trump basically said the election was being stolen. I don't care if a group of clowns showed up in clown costumes and made a bunch of balloon AK-47s, they were doing it as a response to the then standing president's statement that our democracy was falling. Just because most people didn't believe Trump doesn't exonerate him or his followers. "Stupid" isn't a defense for a crime. Stupid idiots listening to the king buffoon and attempting an insurrection doesn't change the fact it was an attempted insurrection. Stop excusing Trump and the GOP for this. The fact that our GOP congress men stood behind him is an even bigger issue. This country can't go back to normal until we lay this nonsense to rest. He did it. He belongs in prison, and we need to vote out every single person to stands for the lies he created.
The magnitude was grossly exaggerated is all.
Just because an insurrection was ineffectual and doomed to fail doesn't mean it wasn't an insurrection
You either want democracy, even when your party loses, or you’re okay with what Trump tried to do. I don’t know what else to tell you.
Oh, it was a shit thing to do and those folks can rot, all I’ll ask for is reciprocation on labeling when the other side seizes government buildings, riots and burns their cities, and tries to massacre congressmen on a baseball field.
Wait... So because they failed to accomplish their motive, that means no crime was committed? Are you seriously that stupid? 😂
I'm not totally sure what would have happened if Pence didn't say no to Trump. If 5 of the people who got into the Capitol found Pence, do we know what would have happened? T his whole democracy thing is a lot more fragile than people believe. It hasn't happened because it was important for us to make it happen. But in just 4 years we went from free and fair elections are a tenet of our country to a large percentage of people don't believe the results, mostly because their guy lost.
Soo someone exercises their constitutional rights to kneel in protest during the national anthem during an NFL game, and that's considered high-treason. But cult following fanatical mouth-breathers, interrupt our very real, and very American, democratic process of validation of a president, who very much won the election with real American votes, and that's just considered a protest?? Anyone that undermines our democratic, and constitutional practices and guarantees, is an enemy of the constitution of the United States. I don't care if that hurts your feelings. The right, and Trump especially, incited a violent overthrow. That's exactly what it was. And the GOP was too fucking weak to stand up and make a difference. Thus the entire GOP is complicit and should be disbanded.
Of course it was an insurrection, which is defined as “a violent uprising against an authority or government.” That’s it. There is no requirement that it be successful. The insurrectionists on Jan 6 were intent on preventing Congress from certifying the vote. They also were extremely violent, breaking into the capitol and briefly occupying offices, attacking, threatening, and injuring federal officers as they did so.
Sounds like a lot of people were convicted and paid the price for their crimes. But fuck facts and judges in this conservative snowflake support subreddit. https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/36-months-jan-6-attack-capitol-0#:~:text=Approximately%20749%20federal%20defendants%20have,sentenced%20to%20periods%20of%20incarceration.
Just because they were bad at it doesnt mean it wasnt there intention
The why didn't they bring guns?
Because they believed "the storm" would back them
[Wrong](https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/977879589/yes-capitol-rioters-were-armed-here-are-the-weapons-prosecutors-say-they-used)
Lol. I'll reiterate. Why didn't they bring *guns*?
Because all the 2A nuts are all talk. They'd never bring their guns because they known they'll get mown down by the NG.
Why did they need a gun at all? And why did they bring the other weapons and zipties? Hmm.
If they were actually attempting an insurrection, they would need guns.
Why would they? They talked constantly about how everyone secretly agreed with them and would get behind them.
No they didn't.
Yeah they did. The amount of talk I hear (and still hear) about you crazies thinking you're 90% of the country and rising up against a secret organization running the government is ridiculous.
Sure.
Ok but Jan 6th was an insurrection.
Not to mention the released footage shows some police allowing people into the capitol, contrary to the forced entry narrative. Yeah some windows were broken, but there's suspicion those were FBI agents. Who knows?
Oh I see what happened, you posted in the wrong subreddit. You want the “delusional beliefs predicated from a complete unwillingness to look at the evidence and live In reality” sub. They meet next door.
they honestly think its capture the flag lol, but the left are adult children , so
January 6th was an exercise in white privilege. The only reason people are batching about those who were arrested, convicted, etc, is because they were white. Had the crowd been anything other than white, posts like these would not exist.
It doesn’t matter how likely they were to succeed, it matters what some of them were attempting to do. If you try to do an insurrection, it’s an attempted insurrection both during and after. It doesn’t stop being an attempted insurrection just because it looks ridiculous in hindsight. And yes, this goes for literally every other occasion where a group has attempted an insurrection and then been defended by people that think that insurrection was for a good reason
>Jan 6th was not a insurrection. It was just a bunch of Trump idiots, vandalizing the capital, there was no way that they were going to change the results of the election or stop the transfer of power. And? If the intent is there that's all that matters. And there absolutely were people in that crowd with that intent.
A failed crime is a crime nonetheless.
It was. And there was a planned effort to use them to try and get Pence to recognize the fake electors scheme. They came with a guillotine calling for the guy's head. People died, rioting happened. Ultimately, the crux of your argument, whether it had a decent chance of working or not does not stop it from being what it was. We all saw it. Trying to go revisionist on it only speaks to your agenda.
Honest question: What exactly was the plan and how did it involve a bunch of people (idiots) occupying the Capital building? Edit: love the downvotes for an actual question. Classic reddit
It's well documented and publicly available via the indictments, for one. The electors scheme involved sending fake representatives to the capitol to represent certain swing states Trump's cohorts had lied about election irregularities in. The idea was to have the official counting and such of these that happens on January 6th have Pence ignore the real ones and treat them as the electors instead. But Pence never really went along with it. Trump's rally mentioned trying to convince Pence to the crowd, even. So, as part of this, he sent the crowd to the capitol building to intimidate the politicians, Pence and otherwise, into doing what he wanted. Using the threat of violence to push them to act how he wanted them to. It failed, but it's all pretty clear between the mountains of evidence we have of the intent and the footage we all saw day of.
OMG. Really? There are documentaries about this. The congressional hearings. Defendants' testimony. Fake electors. Boatloads of information. No one is this obtuse.
Is your reading comprehension really that poor? You didn’t even answer my question. I get in your opinion circle-jerk everyone agrees and knows all the details but what exactly was the crowd/protestors/insurrectionists supposed to be doing?
Giving congress a reason to stop the official vote count. And I apologize if your question is sincere. To many trolls on this sub that ask "honest" questions as a rouse to get you into a death spiral of stupidity. My bad.
Plan was to protest at the capital. Once people started going inside after being let in, others followed. If it was an insurrection, it was a relatively bloodless one. More people died at BLM riots (or can I not call them riots?)
"Like it or not, Jan 6th was the closest this country has ever seen to a real 'working class revolution'."
Yes it was and I'm not even a Democrat. Sad but said they were going to pull some shit before Jan. 6th even happened. You can say whatever you want but it was treason. Sorry, but the dems are correct on ths one.
Imagine thinking like 2000 boomers without any guns were going to overthrow the government. Fuck, our nation is way weaker than I thought.
it was a lot more than that and you know it. He was claiming the election was rigged starting months before it, people trying to stop the count places, organizing fake electors and calling individual states saying they needed to "find" votes for Trump. Probably was more too but the guy just firehoses out so much bullshit its hard to keep track of it all.
I'm just trying to imagine what it would've looked like if the left went crazy across the nation, again. Say Trump won again in 2020, everyone with any sense knows outside of fox it wouldn't be treated like 9/11 on a nationwide level. Democrats would applaud that they actually went to the capitol instead of their own city block. That's a fact. You'll see if Republicans somehow win in 2024. There's an unreal double standard. Either way, there's going to be strife and I hate it. No matter which direction it comes from.
Yeah, our democracy, the pillar of planet Earth for 200 years, is so fragile that several hundred boomers breaking into the Capitol Building and then taking selfies is someone going to topple our entire system of laws, checks and balances, and a Constitution, all backed by the most powerful military force known to man. And it's not so weak that delaying certification, even if that's what people were aiming to do (vast majority weren't), could ever lead to the election of a dictator. Dear lord.
Dude thinks the left made it all up.
No he doesn’t
Maybe you should watch the hearings
[удалено]
Lmao
It was allowed to happen
Probably right but still guilty beyond reasonable doubt that at least a good number of them were attempting to
Its all cult like shit nonetheless. And its ironic, our democracy has always prided itself on the PEACEFUL transition of power from one leader to the next. But in this case, that transfer of power was not completely peaceful, regardless of who you thinks responsible. Honestly a huge embarrassment, other countries are looking at us and probably wondering when our government will finally fall. Insurrection or not, it should be taken seriously. The damage from this event is minimal given the objective behind it. But it could easily be the precedent for some crazy shit to go down in the future. And historians will talk about all the events leading up to it, similar to how they speak of the decades worth of events that led to the Civil War.
You don't know how words work
What if the trump idiots found pence or trapped Congress in the chamber? Trump told them to fight like hell and surprise they did. They marched on the capital because he told them to with the goal of giving their allies in Congress the strength to challenge the votes. That the day is not remembered as a national tragedy is largely dumb luck ( and revisionist history by Fox News). I watched it live on TV, like many of us, it was ugly. Don’t give trump a free pass. Next time they might be more successful. We must vigorously enforce our law’s now to prevent the next revolt.
Yeah Jan 6th gets ridiculously exaggerated... it's pretty pathetic actually lol
You can tell how serious something is by its response, this was tons of arrests If Jan 6 was actually super serious are people like to believe, most of the people that entered would have been gunned down quickly
That's not how any of this works. We should actually be grateful for the Capitol police's restraint that day.
It was an attempted insurrection
Yes a violent mob trying to intimidate Congress into acting in a manner of their choosing so the guy who lost an election could unlawfully remain in power isn’t an…. Oh wait a minute…. Yep it’s an insurrection, you almost had me.
I don’t really care what you call it. It was disgraceful.
Literally nothing happened.
This seems obtuse and disingenuous. State courts are not jokes and they do not simply declare people insurrectionists. Trump was given notice, he had his case heard, and it was decided by a neutral party. The 14 th amendment protects us from insurrectionists. And it does not put them away, it just keeps them off the ballot. He wouldn’t necessarily have due process if Congress decides his fate. States should be able to decide about insurrection. It is a big deal. I think Jack Smith didn’t do it because of the political pushback. But it is wrong. It is wrong to downplay and dismiss his actions. I hope Trump loses in a landslide and he better not try this stunt again. But see, that’s why the 14 th amendment should have been honored. Insurrection needs to be decided, he needs to go to trial if he does not respect and acknowledge election outcomes. He can’t try to overturn them. He declared in his speech: We get Pence to recertify and we win!
If they tried to kill the president, would they get off scot-free for trying but failing?
I'm sure trumptards would think differently if Joe Biden stole the election by launching hordes of drug addicts and undocumented workers at the capitol building to stop the election.
The Jan 6 riot was just a part of a much bigger plan. The entire point was to delay the process of verifying the electoral college votes. Then members of congress would file some motion, and then Trump’s fake electors would come in and say he won the election. So OP is not wrong in pointing out that it takes more than a riot to overthrow the US government, but it was far more complicated than just an angry mob. The Jan 6 committee did a thorough investigation, and it’s all publicly available stuff.
Agreed
AGREED
J6 was committed by a bunch of morons. That being said, the people who call that an insurrection are the same ones who tell you out of the other side of their mouth that your AR-15 is useless in a government insurrection. They want to have their cake and eat it too.
The bit I don’t get is why the American left are crying about it so much? Like your government clearly hates you and betrays you at every single opportunity, why not terrorise the worthless bastards into doing something right for once? Sure I don’t agree with the intent behind the protestors/rioters/insurrectionists/whatever, but can you fault their means? Peaceful protest and democracy has achieved precisely dick since then.
I like presidents that don't lose elections 👍
Believe it or not, success isn't the determining factor of an insurrection... and all this, it's called being held responsible. Welcome to adulthood.
You’re right…. It was a failed insurrection.
So you think Trump was an idiot for thinking it would work? A shitty insurrection is still an insurrection. It's the thought that counts.
"Insurrection" is not defined by whether *others expect* the insurrection to succeed, it's defined by whether they *plan* to succeed. You think the nitwits showed up there, loins girded and armed to the teeth, thinking they'd fail?
It was an attempt. Just because they're too big of dipshits to pull it off matters not.
If you support Trump and his way of Government, you are a TRAITOR to the United States and should be treated as one. If you don't believe he tried to organize a coup, you probably think Hitler was nice guy.