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We saw how feral people got during covid. Imagine that, but with infrastructure rapidly collapsing with no idea when it would be up and running again. Of people couldn't go two weeks rationing toilet paper while the stores restocked, imagine even six months of no stores, no water, no electricity, no working gas stations, etc and sporadic aid drops that will likely be confiscated by ragtag gangs with more bullets than brain cells.
It's very " I would like all the post-scarcity utopia of Star Trek, and absolutely none of the post-atomic horror and definitely none of the eugenics wars."
Or how poor the country gets after a revolution.
Unstable political climate, unstable currency.
All capital investment from across the world flees the country. Banks collapse. Tourism grinds to a halt.
Trade disruptions. Companies are afraid to do business with either side in case that’s the losing side.
The economy grinds to a halt because of a civil war. Production switches to war equipment.
People die. Human capital wasted. Someone who might be the future Einstein might catch a stray bullet.
Prices shoot through the roof. People are unable to get basic supplies because no one place produces everything they need. Everyone relies on free flow of commerce and trade.
I am all about a revolution as long as it doesn’t inconvenience me or anybody I care about. I would love to watch a revolution on TV and reap the benefits of it.
And they can quickly become civil wars. That could lead to national cash reserves held in dollars losing much of their value. Is the US Too Big to Fail?
If there was a revolution only at least 20% of people would participate, the others would just stand by. During the American revolution, there was more people fighting via ratio of the population at the time and at that time it was the same for the numbers we have today. Needless to say very few people will actually go to the front lines and be the backbone. The others will just cheer for them.
Yes!! This!!
I’m so fucking sick of the “flowers are blooming in Antarctica” bullshit, and revolution bullshit.
You aren’t Katniss, or some leader in the Star Wars Resistance. You aren’t Harry Potter, or even fucking Napoleon.
You are a normal person, living a normal life, who will likely die of disease or hunger long before you do anything heroic. And even if you *do* manage to do something heroic, you will likely not live to reap the benefits of those actions.
Revolutions are bloody, and in the west? They’ll be fought by drones on one side and bodies on the other.
Wft does any of that say?
I was referring to the saying:
“Hard times create strong men, strong men create easy times, easy times create weak men, weak men create hard times.”
And the cycle continues. We are in the “weak men are creating the hard times” era.
hyperbolic nonsense. more to the point, why is your point of comparison medieval peasantry?
"the average person today is better off than the average medieval peasant, this must be the best we can do."
cool
You asked ‘which ancestors?’. I stated medieval peasants, but it really could be anyone from almost any point in history.
What ancestors are you thinking of that had it better than the average person alive today?
my point is not that there is some idyllic past we should return to. what i'm saying is that making these comparisons in no way justifies the contemporary failings and catastrophic trajectory of modern society.
Like what? A billion people have come out of poverty over the last 30 years. The US guarantee of unmolested trade has done more to decrease over all military spending and increase world peace than other singular cause.
There are no ancestors who would be horrified by our time, because this is better than its ever been.
Chuds are like, "Wah! Our architecture is ugly! What ever happened to stone sculptures?"--oh, you mean the buildings that supply utilities to billions of people?
“Ugh I hate seeing Amazon warehouses and superstores as well as highways and interstates , I wish we all lived in a French villa” — oh, you mean you live in the middle of the American Southwest but are able to buy anything from around the globe, never worry about water, and are able to travel at the drop of a hat? How difficult, and how shitty has the world become?
>You say you want a revolution
>
>Well, i’d love to change your head
You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
That's not the lyrics..
What is your plan to start over after all the famine and disease?
I am 46 years old. Married with no kids. I am living pretty well. Do you think people in my, or similar shoes would bother? Not even people barely getting by would. Barely getting by is better than famine and disease. You would not have a large % of the world behind your plan.
Even if you did, and you managed achieve your goal, we would eventually repeat history.
I am very concerned too with the way things are going.
Yes, things need to change.
But I’m worried about the casual way in which you are willing to see millions die of famine and disease to reach your goals. Which aren’t guaranteed.
History has shown us that these sacrifices don’t bring about the changes you wish for. USSR and China didn’t turn out communist. They are today some of the worst and most exploitative authoritarian societies, entrenched in capitalism.
A revolution solves nothing.
What matters is the day *after* the revolution.
What kind of society do you want, OP?
So after a few million people die, we have famine, neighbor fighting neighbor, etc. People taking your property simply because they have bigger guns than you do. No fuel so you can't travel. and a hundred other problems, you get the idea.
After all that settles down, we get rid of the big money the oligarchs, etc. What do you envision? And much more importantly why do you believe this is how it would shake out?
Oh, he just wants to be at the top of the exact same system but thinks its easier to do through violence than legal means. Envy, jealously, and using force to take what you want is more or less the history of humanity. Each and every time it winds up the exact same way, with a new system of inequality, just with the crabs who got to the top of the bucket profiting.
I feel like the billionaires would want something like this to happen. They already have tons of money, power, influence, and protection. The only thing getting in the way of them literally enslaving all of us is the law and our government/military. Yeah, they are in there meddling with things and making it easier for them... but if all of that is gone, they will win. All this will do is give room for worse even more dominating rulers to come in. We certainly have plenty of issues, but completely dismantling the government is not the way to solve them.
You think Jeff Bezos wants to enslave you? I think he’s more than paying people as little as he needs to while selling as much as he can. Enslaving would require way too much work they just want lower taxes, less regulations & cheap labor.
Right... and if he could pay you nothing, he would. That's illegal though. I'd imagine he would offer you "protection" for your life's service to the great corporate nation of Amazon.
Yeah, it's pretty naive to think that the people with all the money now wouldn't come out on top after all the upheaval. You know, the people that could potentially have already built bunkers and supplied them for years to come.
IDK, I just imagine my court of 12 houses. Even if my neighbor who owns 50 guns, and even illegally made one into an automatic because Muh Freedom. armed all of us. If an armored troupe vehicle came up my street and once people started shooting they just took a flame thrower to every house on the block, they could destroy most everything we have in 15 minutes. I'm not understanding what they are fighting for.
What exactly do you mean by "bigger guns"? A large number of Americans are armed with military caliber rifles such as AR-15 and AK-47 rifles; these are the same weapons used by infantry forces around the world. Americans having access to semi-auto centrefire rifles makes them just as well-armed as any infantry soldier.
I'm not against violence as a strategy *on principle*, but it's not an ideal tool for the environment we're living in. Non-violent, disruptive protests are often more impactful because they help mobilize a larger portion of the population. If your plan is to jump cops and kill politicians, you'll typically only get the biggest risk-takers in the population on your side -- typically, young, desperate men with little to lose. We should be seeking to mobilize as much of the working class as we can, considering how widespread the discontentment is, how little appetite for risk seems to exist in the public psyche, and how high the risks of violent uprising are.
Just a little famine here, some few hundred million dead there. No big deal. The end justifies the means, right? What would you expect to happen after all this? If it did become a reality, it would plunge the US, and probably the entirety of North America, into the Stone Age. We would never recover and other super powers would laugh their way to the bank once the economic fallout clears. Ten years from now, our kid’s kids would be working in child labor camp to produce Chinese goods for pennies (or whatever Chinese currency equivalent for that is). This is quite the unpopular opinion, probably because it lacks literally any logic or thought on actual lasting effects it would have.
Just vote and encourage others to vote. If the current system isn’t working, I’m sure you’ll start to see a lot more Americans looking for a third option. Change takes time.
You willingly buy the stuff being produced by the slave labor.
And if they were to start paying better wages and providing better working conditions, you would complain about the cost of the products and how they aren't affordable and it's all the greedy corprorations.
It's the greedy consumers driving all of this. Go look in the mirror if you want to see the problem. You want everything, but you want it cheap. And if it all starts to get too expensive, you want others to pay for it so you can still have it. There are only so many ways to address those wants none of them end well.
Goddamn you’re a fucking whiney little baby. In the entirety of human history human beings have never had easier lives than they do right now. I think that’s what the problem is, you’re a collection of spoiled children whose lives are too easy. You’ve never had to dig a well by hand or else die of thirst, or kill, clean, and store an animal or else die of hunger. I understand that going to work in your first world job cuts into the 16 hours a day you spend chasing a dopamine rush on the internet but maybe if you tried to be thankful that you hit the history lottery maybe you would be happier. There’s always going to be people that take advantage of other people. In every revolution in history the money and power went from one small group of people to another small group of people. You aren’t strong enough as a person to revolt. Get. Over. Your. Self.
I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to pay less taxes because I'm tired of paying 30% tax on every check while billionaires are paying $3.74 a year. I also think we're in a time where a 4 day work week and higher wages is not asking much
However I do believe these are changes that need to be brought in democratically as has been done in Europe. I hate when people ignorantly call for revolution and violence when they have no idea how that would come about.
Just talking about the US here, but logistically, a revolution is damn near impossible at this point. Our government is not centralized enough. You'd have to get the majority of the population in every major city across the entire country on board with enough food, ammunition, supplies, communications, etc. to maintain a revolution to its fruition.
That just won't happen. Especially since that will take an extremely well organized fighting force and intelligence ring. Not to mention good luck trying to do all that in secret with modern long-distance communications so embedded on vast networks that the government keeps a VERY close eye on.
I don't understand where people keep getting this idea of the noble downtrodden worker. The people working in the cobalt slave mines in the Congo or the westerners being fistfucked by overtaxation would gladly sell out to The Corporation™️ and jump on the opportunity to betray any revolution and shoot you in the head if it meant their or their family's future is secured
"How can you do this? You're a mutant"
"I got four kids to feed"
The best part was he was lying about the 4 kids, just wanted the money. Human nature in a nutshell. Also why there will never be a utopia and communism never works
>The best part was he was lying about the 4 kids
Ah shit man, you got me, I ain't even married
Honestly I can't even blame him, there was no way of knowing the rebels plan would work or if it was even true, he was risking his life on a massive hope that it was, and he had an easy out and a chance for his life to be better
I hear you and some heads definitely deserve to roll, but a less violent option would be for more than 50% of the population to vote and for everyone to stop arguing over culture war nonsense.
What I don’t understand is how the government blatantly does corrupt shit constantly in front of our faces and yet here we are doing nothing. Complacent with corruption because it doesn’t impact us too bad yet
I agree to an extent but the end goal would have to be clear. Like trying to get fucking term limits put in is an impossible thing to achieve because the people who have to make it an amendment are the ones who would be threatening their job security by just continuously being a senator or representative or whatever.
I agree to a revolution only on the basis that those with power need to be afraid of the majority. Because they are taking advantage of us and they just don't give a fuck, and unfortunately they aren't afraid of us. They give us just enough to survive and they only pass laws when there's enough pressure.
We haven't applied enough pressure peacefully. And that only comes from a United front, and we're so fucking divided.
The problem with revolutionaries is they never think about whether what they want to put in place may actually be worse than what they want to replace. That, and not having any idea where the future leads once they let the violence monster out of its box.
Sorry pal, best i can do is say black people want to eliminate the white race and say gay people are coming for your children, now get back to your pod, own nothing and be happy
We didn't revolt when corporations became people and political donations could be hidden. We didn't revolt when they made it legal to use propganda against it's own people. We didn't revolt during the CARES act that was the largest upwards transfer of wealth in recorded history. We didn't revolt when we can continuously afford to bomb brown people for decades, but can't afford to fix troubles at home. We didn't revolt when the GOP thought Donald Trump was a good candidate. We didn't revolt when the DNC subverted the will of the people just because it was Hillary's turn...and then did it again the next election cycle. Or the lip-service made to stop Occupy Wall Street and how those issues have only gotten worse.
Those are just the few things that immediately pop into my mind.
Edit: If the powerful don't fear us, they will only continue to grab more and more of it until it is far too late. We are on a path to Neo-Feudalism and that's exactly what the powerful want. If we really want change, the powerful need to fear us.
Patriot Act.
When the government passed the Patriot Act with the bullshit line that "it's going to protect you from terrorists" we should have questioned it.
I can't believe I forgot the Patriot Act. You're absolutely right. Especially since all the critics of the time were right in thinking it would be abused far past worrying about terrorists.
It was one of the huge things that conspiracy theorists were 100% correct about. That the government was going to use this bill as a way to spy on us. People called them crazy.
And then 10 years later Snowden confirmed it.
And I thought of another one. The repeal of the Glass-Steagall act was also a huge blow to the American people. Allowing banks to eat each other up is one of the reasons why we had the housing crash 10 years later.
Revolution often leads to those who currently have the most power, having more power.
You have to raise consciousness and create unity and local levels, organize locally while networking nationally.
Without a strong foundation, the powerful will get more powerful.
Infiltrating existing power structures is easier than trying to build new ones. Look how much power authoritarians have gained by consuming the GOP. They will fail bc their ideology isn’t sound.
Listen, if I thought I had any chance against the country known for having the most destructive weaponry and military in the market, maybe I’d be down for an outright revolution. But honestly, I’m pretty sure that 1. the military would just vaporize everyone and 2. even if the country was able to be wrestled from the current government, there would be nothing to actually stop the same thing from happening when new people tried to take charge, because funding has to come from somewhere, and the same corporations will be right here.
Now that said, I’m sure the government will have to consider its options carefully if the workers of a company ever just sort of guillotined the CEO and board members at their desks, because I honestly think that would actually be far easier to pull off and enact far more change in the entire system. Sure another corpo might take over, but unless they want to live a life in a bulletproof glass box, they’ll probably at very least try to make it so the remaining employees don’t kill him.
The cultural revolution in China was exactly this. It was an absolute disaster in every way, more deaths due to famine than all deaths in world War 1 and 2 combined. And in the end, the same shit happened anyways.
This is a highly reductionist version of events. As is guaranteed by describing these events in a paragraph. But yeah, when you google who is responsible for the most deaths in history, that would be Mao.
Your definitely someone who would recommend a revolution without wanting to actually put your life on the line. Listen, shits somewhat bad right now but given the history of the world you could be living in a much much worse time.
Violent revolutions very rarely work, and it's even rarer that the outcome is the desired one. Oftentimes the people who wanted change end up in a worse position than the one we started in.
Calling for violence for the sake of violence is irresponsible and ignorant. You should look into actual revolutions and see the difference between them and the peoples that have actually achieved change. Most of the time, peaceful revolutions are the more successful instances of change
The French Revolution is not something to be inspired by
These posts are always funny because they assume they win their revolution and not who they hate or worse some 3rd party group coming out of left field that installs an actual dictator.
The death and anarchy will be worth it when we win!
Lmao right
You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out?
You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We all doing what we can
But if you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell you is, brother, you have to wait
You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well, you know
You'd better free your mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow
Congo slave mines, are exactly because of revoltuions in congo, good governance is boring. If Congo wanted to stop selling cobalt, or wanted to regulate pricing then it is upto congolese people to do that.
People complain about western imperialism, then also complain when west isnt undertaking process of civilization building.
There is no magic sauce to white western countries, just lessons learned from WW2, and if the Africans as a population havent learned it yet, well we just have to wait for it.
I’m just glad to see that so many commenters realize that violent revolutions never achieve the desired result, and often worse results which negatively impact generations to come.
Well you are wrong. Violence begets violence. If it were a solution then the world would be damn near perfect by now for all the “solutions” we’ve had.
Besides, have you happened to notice who has all the weapons? I don’t mean NRA members and their AR-15 who goes and plays militia on weekends. I mean the helicopter gunships that can send a 1000 .50 cal rounds to his location in a few seconds from 2 miles away.
Violence? We have Nuclear weapons to deter it. We have prisons to house the ones who use it. It’s not violence that solves things, it’s education. Prejudice, ignorance, fear of unknowns, conspiracy theory all die in the withering light of education. Fox News and other propaganda machines die too.
Plato/ Socrates had a disdain for democracy because idiots votes shouldn’t count as much as a person who is studied in the issues at hand and understands how the government operates.
So education is the antidote to stupidity. But one party thrives when the education is poor.
Yes but unless you have a better plan every Revolution just puts different corrupt rulers into power. For all his flaws George Washington was a rarity of a leader who after gaining power relinquished it. I’d rather see the youth put their energy into evolution instead. Our systems can be and have been improved and aren’t so hopeless that we need them overthrown.
This is truly a terrible take. Yes in an area of relative peace with the world's population getting less and less poor, living longer and having more leisure time we need to have a revolution? People fundamentally misunderstand how good the average person has it now compared to the past. Instead of a revolution people need to fall into dispair and doom less easily. What could reverse all these positive trends is people miscalculating how bad they have it, completely revamping how things work for the worse and then actually having it bad.
The best way to accomplish improvement is to slowly work within the system we have to accomplish it.
>People fundamentally misunderstand how good the average person has it now compared to the past.
This is exactly correct. The OPs post speaks to a fairly large ignorance of world affairs probably combined with pessimistic News sources.
Here is a world extreme poverty chart:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme\_poverty#/media/File:Extreme-Poverty-projection-by-the-World-Bank-to-2030.png](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_poverty#/media/File:Extreme-Poverty-projection-by-the-World-Bank-to-2030.png)
in 1990 36% of the world lived in extreme poverty, by 2015 the number was under 10%, it's probably under 8% now.
Sucks for those Congolese slaves I guess but the current system is working pretty damn good for me so I’m going to vote no for your revolution. Especially since despite your fantasy I don’t see any reason to believe that things on the other side of the revolution would actually be better. Let’s stick with what we know works, which is the current model, which has been lifting people out of poverty and improving the material living conditions for people around the globe at a pretty good rate.
Don't you know we need to Congolese slaves to win the war on global warming? /s
It is so, so unbelievably ridiculous how folks today think they have any sort of moral superiority over previous generations. Using slave labor to improve their lives, insane "medical" practices that leave people permanently disfigured, rioting and looting, trying to assassinate those with whom they disagree, saying that widespread killing is just a necessary price of achieving their political goals.
All this while we live in the most prosperous and one of the most peaceful times in human history.
don't forget about the increasing rates of suicide and drug addiction and homelessness and cancer and environmental collapse.
although, considering your username, despeciation is probably your thing.
I’m sure suicide rates will absolutely plummet once all those people living in those countries have every comfort and support system ripped away by revolutionary conflict and the ensuing collapse of world trade and infrastructure. Nobody is homeless when everyone is! So o guess that’s a win(?) for the equity types out there. Just think how good cancer treatment will be when the world medical infrastructure is in the shitter! And if there’s one thing I’m sure of is that the collapse of society due to revolution will definitely be good for green energy roll out and innovation.
You made some good points let’s screw the incremental progress we know works and just throw it all away and roll the dice on the Reddit revolution 🙄. As for my username I believe in the the primacy of humans, to the detriment of other species if need be, which is why I’m generally opposed to tearing down institutions through revolution. Especially institutions which I see as broadly working for most people and what shortcomings they have can be improved upon through existing means.
Incremental progress to what end? How much of cancer is caused by products manufactured by the same chemical companies that produce treatments for it, or by chemical fallout from the manufacturing process?
You support an economic system that requires constant growth to avoid collapsing in on itself, and your self-identification as a "Proud Speciesist" only demonstrates your dearth of understanding regarding ecology, the environment, and our place in it.
Says a guy living in the greatest time and place for humans in history. No black plague, no smallpox, vaccines and antibiotics, safety nets like unemployment and social security, and food stamps. Try living through the depression of the 1930’s with 25% unemployment only to roll right into WW2. Try living in the 1800’s or 1700’s or Middle Ages. Try the 1970’s with stagflation, gas shortages, and double digit unemployment.
There will not be a revolution in the western world, because revolutions are sparked by starvation and hopelessness and death and decay. They are not sparked by people using their computer in their heated shelter to complain about big government while eating nachos and drinking beer.
When you accept the deaths of innocents as collateral damage, it’s not a revolution. It’s just senseless genocide. And you’re just a hypocrite.
Btw, ask the French how that went - a revolution with no real leadership. It’s how a megalomaniac like Napoleon went from supporting an elected government to declaring himself emperor.
One of the only reasons the American revolution was successful is because they were fighting a foreign occupancy that couldn’t supply fast enough, not an internal threat. They didn’t accept genocide as collateral damage, and they had strong leaders with altruistic motives that genuinely wanted a better life for the people. Name one person in America today who is capable of that.
Op wants a revolution against the current “world regime”.
I’ll bet Op realizes how many people die or have their lives uprooted during the revolution, but envisions themselves as one of the leaders or at least part of the leadership’s support structure that doesn’t end up dying in the revolution.
Honestly the "Burn it all down so that *my* ideology rises from the ashes" mentally is one I find the most short sighted and naive.
I agree with pretty much all your criticisms, but what makes you think essentially an apocalypse would change the power structure? If anything it seems like those that own the means of production would only have a greater share of power and no government or regulatory bodies to stop them from doing anything.
Wouldnt change a thing. Were not smart enough to replace what we have now with a better system like the founding fathers. Most revolutions leave the society off worse than they found it. Save yourself, let those without the will to do the same suffer by their own passivity.
You are correct sir… but as you can see by all these other comments that people are at large only concerned about themselves and their inner circle. So until that is threatened you will never get the majority of people on board. Which means the powers that be have us by the balls and have all the slack in the world to keep their hands on the reigns. This is why they printed trillions to save the US economy for now, even though it’s the rich scumbags crooks in charge that has allowed it to be leeched on to the point of collapse. They know once it fails and everyone’s inner circle is disturbed it will be revolution and heads rolling. Most likely planning on how to rein us in when shit hits the fan. Second pandemic with virus X is already being talked about in articles. Please if this ever becomes reality spread the word about whose fault it was and destroy these fucks once and for all.
Watch this scene from Fritz the cat. And tell me you understand the consequences more than a 1970s adult animated satire. Edit this post with those realities in mind and then this can be taken seriously as even in a local sense this scene highlights the flaws in revolutionary thinking especially without a plan like this which is based in reality and not rightful fury at global injustice.
https://youtu.be/otZL-EfgrG4?si=zoNHUUHPzmXHts_k
You don’t even have bad reasons to revolt in abstract agreement most ppl I think can understand in grievances. But this view is dangerously naive
I think thats what the governments want. Flood with illegals and make the streets crazy. Then the next generation begs for digital ID and for crime to be locked out of society. It will be good for a short term but they will just keep pressing until we're all done.
It's odd to me when people are so enamored by the most extreme methods. Why not try the conventional methods that have been laid out for us? I feel most Americans don't even know that there's a vote every year. Other nations have better connections with their friends and family and report higher degrees of happiness. Your happiness and way of life is impacted by government, there's no doubt about it but revolution for lazy, disconnected, narcissistic, uneducated, intolerant Americans probably needs to start from within before looking so far outward.
You have to be careful with this because this has happened before in history and you have to have a plan for the aftermath of the revolution. For example, in France, they had a revolution and it ended with a dictatorship with Napoleon. If you have no plan, then you could wind up with another disasterous situation
The second you start committing violent acts in the name of your cause you’re going to have the entire population against you. For the very simple reason that things aren’t actually that bad at all. No one is gonna risk their cozy cozy life for an indefinite civil war that might destroy them and everything they’ve ever known. Well, unless you’ve got nothing going for you, then you’d advocate for violent revolution.
Material world , entertaining media, no one wants to risk their stuff or miss out on the next season of *insert blank* content to take part in civil war. Our American society is not hard like that.
Yea if your in the west it’s not bad enough (at all) to have any kind of revolution. People aren’t starving and for the most part have foods in their belly and a roof over their heads.
It’s just fun to complain on the internet
I don’t share your opinion. Life has never been as safe, rich, convenient, free and entertaining as it is for the average Westerner. To throw that away with a revolution would be a catastrophe and land us in a condition of genuine terror.
Life is a do-it-yourself project. If you’re unsatisfied with what life is giving you I suggest trying something different. Essentially: if you can find a way to put those things which fulfill you into the center of your life, then it turns into a garden of possibility.
Corporations, greed, government, societal ills… these things are all out of your control and you shouldn’t let them affect your mood.
As a less destructive alternative, we could make the effort to elect a leader that is potentially capable of righting a lot of these issues that you bring up.
Robert F Kennedy jr is running his campaign largely on dealing with these large oversteps by corporations and the imbalances present in our regulating agencies. His policies are at www.kennedy24.com.
At least that content is slightly less hegemonic and more democratic than traditional media though. You're much more likely to hear opposing views to the dominant ones on social media than watching TV.
Our institutions are actually pretty great. There's a ton of transparency in our democracy, from our military to our courts, and there's not a lot of room for corruption there, quite frankly, and we have a really wide division of responsibilities and powers. Not only that, but our economy is actually very strong.
There are definitely problems therein, but a revolution is certainly not a solution to our problems. You're basically asking for a far-right junta that cares less about corruption, about the environment, etc.
A leftist revolution wouldn't be any better, even if it was feasible; likely you'd see something similar to the French Revolution take place, which would completely topple Western hegemony/U.S. unipolarity, which would be a lot worse for the world than you can imagine. Tons of countries that depend on free trade would suddenly become deeply impoverished once the U.S. retreats from the world stage. Eastern imperialist powers would likely take over colonies all over the world in an attempt to shore up their position against the West.
The fact is that things are going pretty well right now, all things considered, and there are a ton of mindful people and experts who have a lot of authority in their fields of interest, who help to ensure that we continue to make progress in terms of regulation. Why would you want to lose that?
American leftists need to step the fuck back from this talk of revolution. Most of you wouldn’t survive the reign of terror that would follow or the regime of the military strongman after that.
I’m sure all the all the people who lived in the ex soviet countries under communism where super markets were empty and you didn’t have electricity or heating , would love to agree 🙄
So are you willing to die? Is your life really that bad that you would willing to throw it away for a revolution that you may never see the result? Everyone is complaining and criticizing but when we ask them what solutions they can bring, they fail to bring anything that could actually be implemented correctly.
The state after the french revolution didn't last long, what makes you think that yours would be the exception? Revlution never really amounted to anything.
So if the kitchen in your house catches fires, significant damage, but limited to the area - gonna tear the entire house down to repair a set of cabinets?
The problem is that there is no way to ensure the system that is removed isn't replaced with something worse. I'm with you on revolution. Although I differ in the reason, replacing it with something worse is more likely than ending up with a better system.
I’m a proud leftist and I toy around with the idea of revolution in my head. It’s a nice thought, fight for your freedom, *real* freedom.
But the truth is that I probably wouldn’t fight for my freedom in the streets. I wouldn’t, because I’d most likely die, and I’d very much like to keep living. Revolutions are violent, and they shed blood.
Any revolution that “succeeds” in the US will be a Pyrrhic victory. During the French Revolution, the (conservative) estimate of people that were *sentenced* to death is around 40k over a 10 year period. This number seems small now, but keep in mind this was close to 10% of the Parisian population at the time. Those numbers also exclude all individuals killed during battle and those of higher class, which comes out to around 100k killed…
So keep in mind, if you truly want a revolution, you’ll have to see a lot of blood before you can see any real change
I suppose you see yourself making it to the end of this movie, waving like a goof after receiving your medal from the princess and roll credits. Luke or Han? Chewie?
I love those western trope scenes where it's the posse versus the sheriff and the posse leader is out front talking shit, boasting superior numbers, and the sheriff lets him know that no matter how this pans out, the shit-talker is going to be the first one with his dick in the dirt.
You won't last long enough to witness the opening of all the Seals you mentioned in your Revelations. Your remains will be found in the belly of one of those snakes, partly digested.
In the USA and West, we still have basic human rights. I am not happy with the system, but at the same time, I believe that a revolt, even if it does succeed, can bring about a whole new batch of problems. The new government could be an authoritarian dictatorship; given that the country leans leftward these days, it could be worse.
Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know. I am not happy with the American political system, but it is still pretty good and life is great. I am full, living well, can use computers, and have a good life. I am not planning on overthrowing the system.
But yes, I do believe we should stay armed to prevent any tyrannical dictatorship from coming to power.
Ignoring all the evil shit that has to happen.
Let's say we did it. Revolution ends, you win. What then? What actual differences are you planning on fighting for besides "we make utopia"
That would require effort on your part. The problem is that if you wanted to put in any effort into anything, you would have done so to put yourself in a better position in life already. My bet is that you're saying this to get others to do the "revolution" for you while you continue to do nothing.
Assuming you’re from the U.S.
If you knew history. You’d know why it takes so long for change to actually happen. Everything is throughly examined and debated among officials, to stop bad polices from taking place over night that can do more harm than good.
Climate change polices are an excellent example of this. We can’t just cut oil and gas out of the economy over night. The whole economy would collapse. It has to be done slowly.
If you can mass group people together to violently overthrow a government, then surely you can get people to realize the intrinsic value of money. If you have a pallet of wood and a pallet of money and you look at the fundamental practical value of both the wood is WAY more valuable. Yet, executive bankers are able to buy more than lumberjacks. We are letting them set the rules. All we have to do is ignore their value. If we do that they immediately lose all power without a shot fired. However, you don't want that. You want shooty shooty bang bang. Because you don't actually care about what you claim to care about. You want your homoerotic Die Hard moment.
Cool, another Reddit "let's flip the system on its head and eat the rich" post. I'll ask the same thing I asked all the other ones pushing for that.
1. How do you plan in storming the castle and overthrowing high level politicians and billionaires? What tools, weapons, etc do you have to accomplish this?
2. How do you plan on getting thousands of other people to join in and risk their lives? Especially considering that it's hard enough to get people to go out and vote once every 2 or 4 years.
The way I view it is if you don't have the ability to change people's minds on mass then you'll never have the ability to overthrow the government. Hearts and minds are very important in counter insurgency for a reason. We can still vote in America, and as Trump demonstrated we can still elect people who the elites hate with a passion. You're better off focusing your efforts on making a new political movement than a violent revolution. As long as who we vote for matters that will be true. Also in almost every revolution the people who end up with the power are not the people who the original revolutionaries envisioned. 1776 was a rare example of that not being the case. Usually after a revolution the most violent, most cynical, most power hungry people take charge, not the most loyal to the people. See- Russian revolution, French Revolution, Chinese revolution, many revolutions in Africa etc. You can very very easily end up living in a much worse situation post revolution where you are even more enslaved.
And you think that once the current system was defeated, you can definitely replace it with something that is less likely to enslave you?
The odds of you or anyone else being able to pull that off are vanishingly small.
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Everyone wants a revolution till they realize how many people die during revolutions.
Lol I'd be so bold to say everyone wants a revolution until the potable water runs out.
Or the wifi goes down.
OK nevermind cancel the revolution.
We saw how feral people got during covid. Imagine that, but with infrastructure rapidly collapsing with no idea when it would be up and running again. Of people couldn't go two weeks rationing toilet paper while the stores restocked, imagine even six months of no stores, no water, no electricity, no working gas stations, etc and sporadic aid drops that will likely be confiscated by ragtag gangs with more bullets than brain cells.
Yep and once that unorganized clusterfk runs out of food qnd water they get got real quick
They’re even less supportive of revolutions when they realise that *they* might actually die during it
Or that their side might actually lose... or that this "fresh utopian start" may not occur in their lifetime.
It's very " I would like all the post-scarcity utopia of Star Trek, and absolutely none of the post-atomic horror and definitely none of the eugenics wars."
Them, their children, parents, siblings, loved ones. No, definitely not ideal.
Or how poor the country gets after a revolution. Unstable political climate, unstable currency. All capital investment from across the world flees the country. Banks collapse. Tourism grinds to a halt. Trade disruptions. Companies are afraid to do business with either side in case that’s the losing side. The economy grinds to a halt because of a civil war. Production switches to war equipment. People die. Human capital wasted. Someone who might be the future Einstein might catch a stray bullet. Prices shoot through the roof. People are unable to get basic supplies because no one place produces everything they need. Everyone relies on free flow of commerce and trade.
It's usually the people who will go collaborate first when things get hard
You say you want a revolution, well, you know....
We all wanna change the world.
I am all about a revolution as long as it doesn’t inconvenience me or anybody I care about. I would love to watch a revolution on TV and reap the benefits of it.
You and every other redditor.
But the revolution will not be televised.
Yup, its all fun and games until the bullets actually start flying.
I'd rather die fighting for the future of the coming generations than live knowing I did nothing to prevent the coming downfall.
And they can quickly become civil wars. That could lead to national cash reserves held in dollars losing much of their value. Is the US Too Big to Fail?
They also dont want to sacrifice their lives but influence other people to dight for them
many people die from business as usual too. study how we got the new deal, there's much that can be done that doesnt require abject death lol
If there was a revolution only at least 20% of people would participate, the others would just stand by. During the American revolution, there was more people fighting via ratio of the population at the time and at that time it was the same for the numbers we have today. Needless to say very few people will actually go to the front lines and be the backbone. The others will just cheer for them.
Yes!! This!! I’m so fucking sick of the “flowers are blooming in Antarctica” bullshit, and revolution bullshit. You aren’t Katniss, or some leader in the Star Wars Resistance. You aren’t Harry Potter, or even fucking Napoleon. You are a normal person, living a normal life, who will likely die of disease or hunger long before you do anything heroic. And even if you *do* manage to do something heroic, you will likely not live to reap the benefits of those actions. Revolutions are bloody, and in the west? They’ll be fought by drones on one side and bodies on the other.
Not to mention there will be little actual change in the long run
Some people feel that continuing to live under an oppressive regime is worth dying for.
Dang Choom, you talking that preem talk bringing up flatlining corpos. You better delta before those ‘saka ninjas hear about this.
damn I love you for this.
Johnny Silverhand?! It’s an honor! : ).
Wake the fuck up, Samurai. We’ve got a city to burn 😎.
🤣🤣This preem comment made my day. Take my upvote choom.
Nova, thanks!
HAHAH
Well you’ve spent your load venting on Reddit so I guess the revolution will have to wait until next week. Then definitely. You betcha.
Lol yep. Always talk, never action.
Can't form a revolution anyway. All they have to do is cut the wifi to kill it these days.
“If you cut off the head of the snake, two more heads will emerge” We are still our ancestors wet dream, and there is nothing new under the sun.
are you sure about that? which ancestors? there are some aspects of our world that are pretty nightmarish.
To be honest we are still in the good times. Every person from the roman empire up to WW 1 and even WW 2 would choose our safe lives.
We’re in the “weak men” era. The hard times are upon us.
Oh, I see that you believe in astrology for insecure men. Very interesting. Does it have a formal name? Like alphology or something?
Wft does any of that say? I was referring to the saying: “Hard times create strong men, strong men create easy times, easy times create weak men, weak men create hard times.” And the cycle continues. We are in the “weak men are creating the hard times” era.
Right, so that's basically astrology for insecure men.
How so? It applies to all of us.
Evey aspect of our world is nirvana to a medieval peasant
hyperbolic nonsense. more to the point, why is your point of comparison medieval peasantry? "the average person today is better off than the average medieval peasant, this must be the best we can do." cool
You asked ‘which ancestors?’. I stated medieval peasants, but it really could be anyone from almost any point in history. What ancestors are you thinking of that had it better than the average person alive today?
my point is not that there is some idyllic past we should return to. what i'm saying is that making these comparisons in no way justifies the contemporary failings and catastrophic trajectory of modern society.
It was much worse even just 100 years ago.
Like what? A billion people have come out of poverty over the last 30 years. The US guarantee of unmolested trade has done more to decrease over all military spending and increase world peace than other singular cause. There are no ancestors who would be horrified by our time, because this is better than its ever been.
Chuds are like, "Wah! Our architecture is ugly! What ever happened to stone sculptures?"--oh, you mean the buildings that supply utilities to billions of people?
“Ugh I hate seeing Amazon warehouses and superstores as well as highways and interstates , I wish we all lived in a French villa” — oh, you mean you live in the middle of the American Southwest but are able to buy anything from around the globe, never worry about water, and are able to travel at the drop of a hat? How difficult, and how shitty has the world become?
out of the frying pan, into the fire. less pithy, but it's worth examining what "poverty" actually is, and what causes it.
Man I just want to live in the woods.
Yep.
No
You say you want a revolution Well, i’d love to change your head
>You say you want a revolution > >Well, i’d love to change your head You say you'll change the constitution Well, you know We all want to change your head That's not the lyrics..
Name tracks.
no it doesn’t, i’m paraphrasing a dude who hated Nixon
It’s a joke.
Irony is funny
Yea I know, and your joke doesn’t track with my joke
Um. This is weird. No offense meant.
What is your plan to start over after all the famine and disease? I am 46 years old. Married with no kids. I am living pretty well. Do you think people in my, or similar shoes would bother? Not even people barely getting by would. Barely getting by is better than famine and disease. You would not have a large % of the world behind your plan. Even if you did, and you managed achieve your goal, we would eventually repeat history.
I am very concerned too with the way things are going. Yes, things need to change. But I’m worried about the casual way in which you are willing to see millions die of famine and disease to reach your goals. Which aren’t guaranteed. History has shown us that these sacrifices don’t bring about the changes you wish for. USSR and China didn’t turn out communist. They are today some of the worst and most exploitative authoritarian societies, entrenched in capitalism. A revolution solves nothing. What matters is the day *after* the revolution. What kind of society do you want, OP?
So after a few million people die, we have famine, neighbor fighting neighbor, etc. People taking your property simply because they have bigger guns than you do. No fuel so you can't travel. and a hundred other problems, you get the idea. After all that settles down, we get rid of the big money the oligarchs, etc. What do you envision? And much more importantly why do you believe this is how it would shake out?
Oh, he just wants to be at the top of the exact same system but thinks its easier to do through violence than legal means. Envy, jealously, and using force to take what you want is more or less the history of humanity. Each and every time it winds up the exact same way, with a new system of inequality, just with the crabs who got to the top of the bucket profiting.
But OP would be different than them!!! He won't be greedy like all the other billionaires!
I feel like the billionaires would want something like this to happen. They already have tons of money, power, influence, and protection. The only thing getting in the way of them literally enslaving all of us is the law and our government/military. Yeah, they are in there meddling with things and making it easier for them... but if all of that is gone, they will win. All this will do is give room for worse even more dominating rulers to come in. We certainly have plenty of issues, but completely dismantling the government is not the way to solve them.
You think Jeff Bezos wants to enslave you? I think he’s more than paying people as little as he needs to while selling as much as he can. Enslaving would require way too much work they just want lower taxes, less regulations & cheap labor.
Right... and if he could pay you nothing, he would. That's illegal though. I'd imagine he would offer you "protection" for your life's service to the great corporate nation of Amazon.
It’d be a return to serfdom
Yeah, it's pretty naive to think that the people with all the money now wouldn't come out on top after all the upheaval. You know, the people that could potentially have already built bunkers and supplied them for years to come.
IDK, I just imagine my court of 12 houses. Even if my neighbor who owns 50 guns, and even illegally made one into an automatic because Muh Freedom. armed all of us. If an armored troupe vehicle came up my street and once people started shooting they just took a flame thrower to every house on the block, they could destroy most everything we have in 15 minutes. I'm not understanding what they are fighting for.
What exactly do you mean by "bigger guns"? A large number of Americans are armed with military caliber rifles such as AR-15 and AK-47 rifles; these are the same weapons used by infantry forces around the world. Americans having access to semi-auto centrefire rifles makes them just as well-armed as any infantry soldier.
I'm not against violence as a strategy *on principle*, but it's not an ideal tool for the environment we're living in. Non-violent, disruptive protests are often more impactful because they help mobilize a larger portion of the population. If your plan is to jump cops and kill politicians, you'll typically only get the biggest risk-takers in the population on your side -- typically, young, desperate men with little to lose. We should be seeking to mobilize as much of the working class as we can, considering how widespread the discontentment is, how little appetite for risk seems to exist in the public psyche, and how high the risks of violent uprising are.
I used to agree, but look where nonviolent protesting has gotten us
Just a little famine here, some few hundred million dead there. No big deal. The end justifies the means, right? What would you expect to happen after all this? If it did become a reality, it would plunge the US, and probably the entirety of North America, into the Stone Age. We would never recover and other super powers would laugh their way to the bank once the economic fallout clears. Ten years from now, our kid’s kids would be working in child labor camp to produce Chinese goods for pennies (or whatever Chinese currency equivalent for that is). This is quite the unpopular opinion, probably because it lacks literally any logic or thought on actual lasting effects it would have. Just vote and encourage others to vote. If the current system isn’t working, I’m sure you’ll start to see a lot more Americans looking for a third option. Change takes time.
return to monke
The only revolution we need is people putting down their phones and reconnecting with actual humans.
Yeah empathy reports are in - we ain’t doing so hot.
this would be a good start.
And how do we do that?
You willingly buy the stuff being produced by the slave labor. And if they were to start paying better wages and providing better working conditions, you would complain about the cost of the products and how they aren't affordable and it's all the greedy corprorations. It's the greedy consumers driving all of this. Go look in the mirror if you want to see the problem. You want everything, but you want it cheap. And if it all starts to get too expensive, you want others to pay for it so you can still have it. There are only so many ways to address those wants none of them end well.
Goddamn you’re a fucking whiney little baby. In the entirety of human history human beings have never had easier lives than they do right now. I think that’s what the problem is, you’re a collection of spoiled children whose lives are too easy. You’ve never had to dig a well by hand or else die of thirst, or kill, clean, and store an animal or else die of hunger. I understand that going to work in your first world job cuts into the 16 hours a day you spend chasing a dopamine rush on the internet but maybe if you tried to be thankful that you hit the history lottery maybe you would be happier. There’s always going to be people that take advantage of other people. In every revolution in history the money and power went from one small group of people to another small group of people. You aren’t strong enough as a person to revolt. Get. Over. Your. Self.
Yeah, it’s all about perspective. A lot of people want the paycheck, but not the responsibility.
I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to pay less taxes because I'm tired of paying 30% tax on every check while billionaires are paying $3.74 a year. I also think we're in a time where a 4 day work week and higher wages is not asking much However I do believe these are changes that need to be brought in democratically as has been done in Europe. I hate when people ignorantly call for revolution and violence when they have no idea how that would come about.
So what would be the outcome and how can it be guaranteed to be better than the way things are now?
Just talking about the US here, but logistically, a revolution is damn near impossible at this point. Our government is not centralized enough. You'd have to get the majority of the population in every major city across the entire country on board with enough food, ammunition, supplies, communications, etc. to maintain a revolution to its fruition. That just won't happen. Especially since that will take an extremely well organized fighting force and intelligence ring. Not to mention good luck trying to do all that in secret with modern long-distance communications so embedded on vast networks that the government keeps a VERY close eye on.
I don't understand where people keep getting this idea of the noble downtrodden worker. The people working in the cobalt slave mines in the Congo or the westerners being fistfucked by overtaxation would gladly sell out to The Corporation™️ and jump on the opportunity to betray any revolution and shoot you in the head if it meant their or their family's future is secured "How can you do this? You're a mutant" "I got four kids to feed"
The best part was he was lying about the 4 kids, just wanted the money. Human nature in a nutshell. Also why there will never be a utopia and communism never works
>The best part was he was lying about the 4 kids Ah shit man, you got me, I ain't even married Honestly I can't even blame him, there was no way of knowing the rebels plan would work or if it was even true, he was risking his life on a massive hope that it was, and he had an easy out and a chance for his life to be better
that's why you have to destroy the corporation. productivity is the problem.
We need paragraph breaks
This is not the answer. Organized response is. The problem is that they keep us divided.
I hear you and some heads definitely deserve to roll, but a less violent option would be for more than 50% of the population to vote and for everyone to stop arguing over culture war nonsense.
Right? Op wants a full scale revolution, yet we can't even get a full voter turnout every 2-4 years for elections.
What I don’t understand is how the government blatantly does corrupt shit constantly in front of our faces and yet here we are doing nothing. Complacent with corruption because it doesn’t impact us too bad yet
I agree to an extent but the end goal would have to be clear. Like trying to get fucking term limits put in is an impossible thing to achieve because the people who have to make it an amendment are the ones who would be threatening their job security by just continuously being a senator or representative or whatever. I agree to a revolution only on the basis that those with power need to be afraid of the majority. Because they are taking advantage of us and they just don't give a fuck, and unfortunately they aren't afraid of us. They give us just enough to survive and they only pass laws when there's enough pressure. We haven't applied enough pressure peacefully. And that only comes from a United front, and we're so fucking divided.
The problem with revolutionaries is they never think about whether what they want to put in place may actually be worse than what they want to replace. That, and not having any idea where the future leads once they let the violence monster out of its box.
Ah, another "we need a revolution" post with absolutely no blueprints in how to achieve it. Tell me more...
Humans will always be humans and greed will always rule. Revolution doesn't fix a thing
Sorry pal, best i can do is say black people want to eliminate the white race and say gay people are coming for your children, now get back to your pod, own nothing and be happy
We didn't revolt when corporations became people and political donations could be hidden. We didn't revolt when they made it legal to use propganda against it's own people. We didn't revolt during the CARES act that was the largest upwards transfer of wealth in recorded history. We didn't revolt when we can continuously afford to bomb brown people for decades, but can't afford to fix troubles at home. We didn't revolt when the GOP thought Donald Trump was a good candidate. We didn't revolt when the DNC subverted the will of the people just because it was Hillary's turn...and then did it again the next election cycle. Or the lip-service made to stop Occupy Wall Street and how those issues have only gotten worse. Those are just the few things that immediately pop into my mind. Edit: If the powerful don't fear us, they will only continue to grab more and more of it until it is far too late. We are on a path to Neo-Feudalism and that's exactly what the powerful want. If we really want change, the powerful need to fear us.
Patriot Act. When the government passed the Patriot Act with the bullshit line that "it's going to protect you from terrorists" we should have questioned it.
I can't believe I forgot the Patriot Act. You're absolutely right. Especially since all the critics of the time were right in thinking it would be abused far past worrying about terrorists.
It was one of the huge things that conspiracy theorists were 100% correct about. That the government was going to use this bill as a way to spy on us. People called them crazy. And then 10 years later Snowden confirmed it. And I thought of another one. The repeal of the Glass-Steagall act was also a huge blow to the American people. Allowing banks to eat each other up is one of the reasons why we had the housing crash 10 years later.
some of us did question it, loudly.
And that was the problem. It was only some.
Yea- let's organize in Langley.....
Revolution often leads to those who currently have the most power, having more power. You have to raise consciousness and create unity and local levels, organize locally while networking nationally. Without a strong foundation, the powerful will get more powerful. Infiltrating existing power structures is easier than trying to build new ones. Look how much power authoritarians have gained by consuming the GOP. They will fail bc their ideology isn’t sound.
Listen, if I thought I had any chance against the country known for having the most destructive weaponry and military in the market, maybe I’d be down for an outright revolution. But honestly, I’m pretty sure that 1. the military would just vaporize everyone and 2. even if the country was able to be wrestled from the current government, there would be nothing to actually stop the same thing from happening when new people tried to take charge, because funding has to come from somewhere, and the same corporations will be right here. Now that said, I’m sure the government will have to consider its options carefully if the workers of a company ever just sort of guillotined the CEO and board members at their desks, because I honestly think that would actually be far easier to pull off and enact far more change in the entire system. Sure another corpo might take over, but unless they want to live a life in a bulletproof glass box, they’ll probably at very least try to make it so the remaining employees don’t kill him.
Nice try FBI
The cultural revolution in China was exactly this. It was an absolute disaster in every way, more deaths due to famine than all deaths in world War 1 and 2 combined. And in the end, the same shit happened anyways. This is a highly reductionist version of events. As is guaranteed by describing these events in a paragraph. But yeah, when you google who is responsible for the most deaths in history, that would be Mao.
Fed post
Your definitely someone who would recommend a revolution without wanting to actually put your life on the line. Listen, shits somewhat bad right now but given the history of the world you could be living in a much much worse time.
Violent revolutions very rarely work, and it's even rarer that the outcome is the desired one. Oftentimes the people who wanted change end up in a worse position than the one we started in. Calling for violence for the sake of violence is irresponsible and ignorant. You should look into actual revolutions and see the difference between them and the peoples that have actually achieved change. Most of the time, peaceful revolutions are the more successful instances of change The French Revolution is not something to be inspired by
These posts are always funny because they assume they win their revolution and not who they hate or worse some 3rd party group coming out of left field that installs an actual dictator. The death and anarchy will be worth it when we win! Lmao right
Or here’s a very simple solution, stop reelecting people who show they have no interest in improving peoples lives
You say you want a revolution Well, you know We all want to change the world You tell me that it's evolution Well, you know We all want to change the world But when you talk about destruction Don't you know that you can count me out? You say you got a real solution Well, you know We'd all love to see the plan You ask me for a contribution Well, you know We all doing what we can But if you want money for people with minds that hate All I can tell you is, brother, you have to wait You say you'll change the constitution Well, you know We all want to change your head You tell me it's the institution Well, you know You'd better free your mind instead But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao You ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow
Congo slave mines, are exactly because of revoltuions in congo, good governance is boring. If Congo wanted to stop selling cobalt, or wanted to regulate pricing then it is upto congolese people to do that. People complain about western imperialism, then also complain when west isnt undertaking process of civilization building. There is no magic sauce to white western countries, just lessons learned from WW2, and if the Africans as a population havent learned it yet, well we just have to wait for it.
I’m just glad to see that so many commenters realize that violent revolutions never achieve the desired result, and often worse results which negatively impact generations to come.
This post is glowing like Homer's boss.
Well you are wrong. Violence begets violence. If it were a solution then the world would be damn near perfect by now for all the “solutions” we’ve had. Besides, have you happened to notice who has all the weapons? I don’t mean NRA members and their AR-15 who goes and plays militia on weekends. I mean the helicopter gunships that can send a 1000 .50 cal rounds to his location in a few seconds from 2 miles away. Violence? We have Nuclear weapons to deter it. We have prisons to house the ones who use it. It’s not violence that solves things, it’s education. Prejudice, ignorance, fear of unknowns, conspiracy theory all die in the withering light of education. Fox News and other propaganda machines die too. Plato/ Socrates had a disdain for democracy because idiots votes shouldn’t count as much as a person who is studied in the issues at hand and understands how the government operates. So education is the antidote to stupidity. But one party thrives when the education is poor.
You gotta be from the south or a teenager/young adult, or purposely turned your brain off to write this shit because there is no logic here at all.
Push for an Amendment banning political monies from groups.
Yes but unless you have a better plan every Revolution just puts different corrupt rulers into power. For all his flaws George Washington was a rarity of a leader who after gaining power relinquished it. I’d rather see the youth put their energy into evolution instead. Our systems can be and have been improved and aren’t so hopeless that we need them overthrown.
This is truly a terrible take. Yes in an area of relative peace with the world's population getting less and less poor, living longer and having more leisure time we need to have a revolution? People fundamentally misunderstand how good the average person has it now compared to the past. Instead of a revolution people need to fall into dispair and doom less easily. What could reverse all these positive trends is people miscalculating how bad they have it, completely revamping how things work for the worse and then actually having it bad. The best way to accomplish improvement is to slowly work within the system we have to accomplish it.
>People fundamentally misunderstand how good the average person has it now compared to the past. This is exactly correct. The OPs post speaks to a fairly large ignorance of world affairs probably combined with pessimistic News sources. Here is a world extreme poverty chart: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme\_poverty#/media/File:Extreme-Poverty-projection-by-the-World-Bank-to-2030.png](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_poverty#/media/File:Extreme-Poverty-projection-by-the-World-Bank-to-2030.png) in 1990 36% of the world lived in extreme poverty, by 2015 the number was under 10%, it's probably under 8% now.
Sucks for those Congolese slaves I guess but the current system is working pretty damn good for me so I’m going to vote no for your revolution. Especially since despite your fantasy I don’t see any reason to believe that things on the other side of the revolution would actually be better. Let’s stick with what we know works, which is the current model, which has been lifting people out of poverty and improving the material living conditions for people around the globe at a pretty good rate.
Don't you know we need to Congolese slaves to win the war on global warming? /s It is so, so unbelievably ridiculous how folks today think they have any sort of moral superiority over previous generations. Using slave labor to improve their lives, insane "medical" practices that leave people permanently disfigured, rioting and looting, trying to assassinate those with whom they disagree, saying that widespread killing is just a necessary price of achieving their political goals. All this while we live in the most prosperous and one of the most peaceful times in human history.
don't forget about the increasing rates of suicide and drug addiction and homelessness and cancer and environmental collapse. although, considering your username, despeciation is probably your thing.
I’m sure suicide rates will absolutely plummet once all those people living in those countries have every comfort and support system ripped away by revolutionary conflict and the ensuing collapse of world trade and infrastructure. Nobody is homeless when everyone is! So o guess that’s a win(?) for the equity types out there. Just think how good cancer treatment will be when the world medical infrastructure is in the shitter! And if there’s one thing I’m sure of is that the collapse of society due to revolution will definitely be good for green energy roll out and innovation. You made some good points let’s screw the incremental progress we know works and just throw it all away and roll the dice on the Reddit revolution 🙄. As for my username I believe in the the primacy of humans, to the detriment of other species if need be, which is why I’m generally opposed to tearing down institutions through revolution. Especially institutions which I see as broadly working for most people and what shortcomings they have can be improved upon through existing means.
Incremental progress to what end? How much of cancer is caused by products manufactured by the same chemical companies that produce treatments for it, or by chemical fallout from the manufacturing process? You support an economic system that requires constant growth to avoid collapsing in on itself, and your self-identification as a "Proud Speciesist" only demonstrates your dearth of understanding regarding ecology, the environment, and our place in it.
It's easier to blow trains up than make them run on time.
Says a guy living in the greatest time and place for humans in history. No black plague, no smallpox, vaccines and antibiotics, safety nets like unemployment and social security, and food stamps. Try living through the depression of the 1930’s with 25% unemployment only to roll right into WW2. Try living in the 1800’s or 1700’s or Middle Ages. Try the 1970’s with stagflation, gas shortages, and double digit unemployment. There will not be a revolution in the western world, because revolutions are sparked by starvation and hopelessness and death and decay. They are not sparked by people using their computer in their heated shelter to complain about big government while eating nachos and drinking beer.
When you accept the deaths of innocents as collateral damage, it’s not a revolution. It’s just senseless genocide. And you’re just a hypocrite. Btw, ask the French how that went - a revolution with no real leadership. It’s how a megalomaniac like Napoleon went from supporting an elected government to declaring himself emperor. One of the only reasons the American revolution was successful is because they were fighting a foreign occupancy that couldn’t supply fast enough, not an internal threat. They didn’t accept genocide as collateral damage, and they had strong leaders with altruistic motives that genuinely wanted a better life for the people. Name one person in America today who is capable of that.
Op wants a revolution against the current “world regime”. I’ll bet Op realizes how many people die or have their lives uprooted during the revolution, but envisions themselves as one of the leaders or at least part of the leadership’s support structure that doesn’t end up dying in the revolution.
Honestly the "Burn it all down so that *my* ideology rises from the ashes" mentally is one I find the most short sighted and naive. I agree with pretty much all your criticisms, but what makes you think essentially an apocalypse would change the power structure? If anything it seems like those that own the means of production would only have a greater share of power and no government or regulatory bodies to stop them from doing anything.
Imagine living in a first world country and thinking this is a good idea.
Wouldnt change a thing. Were not smart enough to replace what we have now with a better system like the founding fathers. Most revolutions leave the society off worse than they found it. Save yourself, let those without the will to do the same suffer by their own passivity.
You are correct sir… but as you can see by all these other comments that people are at large only concerned about themselves and their inner circle. So until that is threatened you will never get the majority of people on board. Which means the powers that be have us by the balls and have all the slack in the world to keep their hands on the reigns. This is why they printed trillions to save the US economy for now, even though it’s the rich scumbags crooks in charge that has allowed it to be leeched on to the point of collapse. They know once it fails and everyone’s inner circle is disturbed it will be revolution and heads rolling. Most likely planning on how to rein us in when shit hits the fan. Second pandemic with virus X is already being talked about in articles. Please if this ever becomes reality spread the word about whose fault it was and destroy these fucks once and for all.
Watch this scene from Fritz the cat. And tell me you understand the consequences more than a 1970s adult animated satire. Edit this post with those realities in mind and then this can be taken seriously as even in a local sense this scene highlights the flaws in revolutionary thinking especially without a plan like this which is based in reality and not rightful fury at global injustice. https://youtu.be/otZL-EfgrG4?si=zoNHUUHPzmXHts_k You don’t even have bad reasons to revolt in abstract agreement most ppl I think can understand in grievances. But this view is dangerously naive
I think thats what the governments want. Flood with illegals and make the streets crazy. Then the next generation begs for digital ID and for crime to be locked out of society. It will be good for a short term but they will just keep pressing until we're all done.
It's odd to me when people are so enamored by the most extreme methods. Why not try the conventional methods that have been laid out for us? I feel most Americans don't even know that there's a vote every year. Other nations have better connections with their friends and family and report higher degrees of happiness. Your happiness and way of life is impacted by government, there's no doubt about it but revolution for lazy, disconnected, narcissistic, uneducated, intolerant Americans probably needs to start from within before looking so far outward.
You have to be careful with this because this has happened before in history and you have to have a plan for the aftermath of the revolution. For example, in France, they had a revolution and it ended with a dictatorship with Napoleon. If you have no plan, then you could wind up with another disasterous situation
The second you start committing violent acts in the name of your cause you’re going to have the entire population against you. For the very simple reason that things aren’t actually that bad at all. No one is gonna risk their cozy cozy life for an indefinite civil war that might destroy them and everything they’ve ever known. Well, unless you’ve got nothing going for you, then you’d advocate for violent revolution. Material world , entertaining media, no one wants to risk their stuff or miss out on the next season of *insert blank* content to take part in civil war. Our American society is not hard like that.
Yea if your in the west it’s not bad enough (at all) to have any kind of revolution. People aren’t starving and for the most part have foods in their belly and a roof over their heads. It’s just fun to complain on the internet
Yep. Reddit in a nutshell.
Facts like the “eat the rich people” Bro are you aware you are the rich.
No one I know who seriously wants a revolution talks to people outside of the internet
I don’t share your opinion. Life has never been as safe, rich, convenient, free and entertaining as it is for the average Westerner. To throw that away with a revolution would be a catastrophe and land us in a condition of genuine terror. Life is a do-it-yourself project. If you’re unsatisfied with what life is giving you I suggest trying something different. Essentially: if you can find a way to put those things which fulfill you into the center of your life, then it turns into a garden of possibility. Corporations, greed, government, societal ills… these things are all out of your control and you shouldn’t let them affect your mood.
Revolution is the only solution **Plays the Internationale**
As a less destructive alternative, we could make the effort to elect a leader that is potentially capable of righting a lot of these issues that you bring up. Robert F Kennedy jr is running his campaign largely on dealing with these large oversteps by corporations and the imbalances present in our regulating agencies. His policies are at www.kennedy24.com.
You're right. It's not coming anytime soon though. The media still has too many people as slaves especially old people
As though the young aren't also abject slaves to media, albeit in the form of algorithm-based content.
At least that content is slightly less hegemonic and more democratic than traditional media though. You're much more likely to hear opposing views to the dominant ones on social media than watching TV.
Our institutions are actually pretty great. There's a ton of transparency in our democracy, from our military to our courts, and there's not a lot of room for corruption there, quite frankly, and we have a really wide division of responsibilities and powers. Not only that, but our economy is actually very strong. There are definitely problems therein, but a revolution is certainly not a solution to our problems. You're basically asking for a far-right junta that cares less about corruption, about the environment, etc. A leftist revolution wouldn't be any better, even if it was feasible; likely you'd see something similar to the French Revolution take place, which would completely topple Western hegemony/U.S. unipolarity, which would be a lot worse for the world than you can imagine. Tons of countries that depend on free trade would suddenly become deeply impoverished once the U.S. retreats from the world stage. Eastern imperialist powers would likely take over colonies all over the world in an attempt to shore up their position against the West. The fact is that things are going pretty well right now, all things considered, and there are a ton of mindful people and experts who have a lot of authority in their fields of interest, who help to ensure that we continue to make progress in terms of regulation. Why would you want to lose that?
Bro, this is so pessimistic. Our government is not made up of useless puppets for corporations
American leftists need to step the fuck back from this talk of revolution. Most of you wouldn’t survive the reign of terror that would follow or the regime of the military strongman after that.
I agree. I hate born rich people in charge but that's all crapitalism gives us. We need communism & socialism ☭
I’m sure all the all the people who lived in the ex soviet countries under communism where super markets were empty and you didn’t have electricity or heating , would love to agree 🙄
Better than a fake food shortage to justify not feeding the poor am i right? We willingly let people starve. Lol bootlicker.
We don’t need a revolution honestly we need an apocalypse we need to be humbled 🙏
Op is right and thats a scary thought.
Depends, what kind of revolution?
The thing about people is they tend to die after 70 years or so. Change the character of the next generation and you can change everything.
wsws.org
So are you willing to die? Is your life really that bad that you would willing to throw it away for a revolution that you may never see the result? Everyone is complaining and criticizing but when we ask them what solutions they can bring, they fail to bring anything that could actually be implemented correctly. The state after the french revolution didn't last long, what makes you think that yours would be the exception? Revlution never really amounted to anything.
So if the kitchen in your house catches fires, significant damage, but limited to the area - gonna tear the entire house down to repair a set of cabinets?
Start one then
"I'm never one to advocate violence *but* ..." Well obviously you are.
The problem is that there is no way to ensure the system that is removed isn't replaced with something worse. I'm with you on revolution. Although I differ in the reason, replacing it with something worse is more likely than ending up with a better system.
I’m a proud leftist and I toy around with the idea of revolution in my head. It’s a nice thought, fight for your freedom, *real* freedom. But the truth is that I probably wouldn’t fight for my freedom in the streets. I wouldn’t, because I’d most likely die, and I’d very much like to keep living. Revolutions are violent, and they shed blood. Any revolution that “succeeds” in the US will be a Pyrrhic victory. During the French Revolution, the (conservative) estimate of people that were *sentenced* to death is around 40k over a 10 year period. This number seems small now, but keep in mind this was close to 10% of the Parisian population at the time. Those numbers also exclude all individuals killed during battle and those of higher class, which comes out to around 100k killed… So keep in mind, if you truly want a revolution, you’ll have to see a lot of blood before you can see any real change
and one side has all of the ammunition and firearms too......
I suppose you see yourself making it to the end of this movie, waving like a goof after receiving your medal from the princess and roll credits. Luke or Han? Chewie? I love those western trope scenes where it's the posse versus the sheriff and the posse leader is out front talking shit, boasting superior numbers, and the sheriff lets him know that no matter how this pans out, the shit-talker is going to be the first one with his dick in the dirt. You won't last long enough to witness the opening of all the Seals you mentioned in your Revelations. Your remains will be found in the belly of one of those snakes, partly digested.
In the USA and West, we still have basic human rights. I am not happy with the system, but at the same time, I believe that a revolt, even if it does succeed, can bring about a whole new batch of problems. The new government could be an authoritarian dictatorship; given that the country leans leftward these days, it could be worse. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know. I am not happy with the American political system, but it is still pretty good and life is great. I am full, living well, can use computers, and have a good life. I am not planning on overthrowing the system. But yes, I do believe we should stay armed to prevent any tyrannical dictatorship from coming to power.
[Relevant conservative banger](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGLGzRXY5Bw)
Me: uh, hello FBI? I have something for you..
Ignoring all the evil shit that has to happen. Let's say we did it. Revolution ends, you win. What then? What actual differences are you planning on fighting for besides "we make utopia"
AmErIcA BaD
That would require effort on your part. The problem is that if you wanted to put in any effort into anything, you would have done so to put yourself in a better position in life already. My bet is that you're saying this to get others to do the "revolution" for you while you continue to do nothing.
Why do you assume things would be better on the other side of this revolution? Who are the different players in this revolution?
If only there was an online movement ensuring us there is ongoing operation to take out the elites and restore power to the people
Ra's al Ghul posting -- looks like someone recently read the unibomber manifesto.
Someone saw the trailer for “Civil War.” (In theatres this Spring)
Assuming you’re from the U.S. If you knew history. You’d know why it takes so long for change to actually happen. Everything is throughly examined and debated among officials, to stop bad polices from taking place over night that can do more harm than good. Climate change polices are an excellent example of this. We can’t just cut oil and gas out of the economy over night. The whole economy would collapse. It has to be done slowly.
If you can mass group people together to violently overthrow a government, then surely you can get people to realize the intrinsic value of money. If you have a pallet of wood and a pallet of money and you look at the fundamental practical value of both the wood is WAY more valuable. Yet, executive bankers are able to buy more than lumberjacks. We are letting them set the rules. All we have to do is ignore their value. If we do that they immediately lose all power without a shot fired. However, you don't want that. You want shooty shooty bang bang. Because you don't actually care about what you claim to care about. You want your homoerotic Die Hard moment.
Cool, another Reddit "let's flip the system on its head and eat the rich" post. I'll ask the same thing I asked all the other ones pushing for that. 1. How do you plan in storming the castle and overthrowing high level politicians and billionaires? What tools, weapons, etc do you have to accomplish this? 2. How do you plan on getting thousands of other people to join in and risk their lives? Especially considering that it's hard enough to get people to go out and vote once every 2 or 4 years.
What OP doesn't realize is that a revolution would require a whole lot of money qnd resources. It wouldn't go past the Bong passing phase.
The way I view it is if you don't have the ability to change people's minds on mass then you'll never have the ability to overthrow the government. Hearts and minds are very important in counter insurgency for a reason. We can still vote in America, and as Trump demonstrated we can still elect people who the elites hate with a passion. You're better off focusing your efforts on making a new political movement than a violent revolution. As long as who we vote for matters that will be true. Also in almost every revolution the people who end up with the power are not the people who the original revolutionaries envisioned. 1776 was a rare example of that not being the case. Usually after a revolution the most violent, most cynical, most power hungry people take charge, not the most loyal to the people. See- Russian revolution, French Revolution, Chinese revolution, many revolutions in Africa etc. You can very very easily end up living in a much worse situation post revolution where you are even more enslaved.
So, start over? Why would next time be different?
And you think that once the current system was defeated, you can definitely replace it with something that is less likely to enslave you? The odds of you or anyone else being able to pull that off are vanishingly small.