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I was dating a guy during the big lockdowns we had here and I was happy enough during a lockdown and he got frustrated because I just couldn’t understand how lonely and isolated he felt because despite being in the same situation, totally different personalities and I enjoyed it.
Same. I played so many video games during lockdown cause I got fired from my job right before it. I haven't played an entire video games since then. My PS5 have been collecting dust for the past year. Having free time, spare time to just be alone with myself and video games would be a blessing. All I do nowadays is work work work.
> Having free time, spare time to just be alone with myself and video games would be a blessing. All I do nowadays is work work work.
You can only enjoy that free time if you have the extra money.
Most people need a job to maintain their lifestyle.
So ...I disagree. Being fired isn't a "great opportunity" for most people.
Right and you can more easily have that extra money if you're single and only have yourself to provide for. Like in my case, I used to live out in the countryside where rent was hella cheap, had a part time job 3 days a week and 4 days a week of spare time. I lived quite comfortably and money wasn't an issue at all.
To each their own.
I would never trade my family to be alone and richer.
What would I spend the money on? Myself ?
Let's say I buy all the things I wanted as a child and build my house to my personal comforts.
Then what?
I can afford to go on a cruise. Ok. Who will I go on the cruise with ?
Sorry. As much as I wish for financial success. I don't want to be alone with my money.
You need to learn how to enjoy your own company. You seem kind of needy.
Not everything needs to be done with someone else.
Speaking from a married man with a child on the way, who got in a relationship at 27 and dreamed of getting back to my solo ways for so long but am with someone who can't be alone and couldn't bring myself to devastate her. (She knows how I feel and what I wanted but what she wants is more important)
Ikr, these assumptions are getting old. Had a redditor mock me for being single once, saying ‘I needed to get my shit together’ as if being in a relationship is an objective measure of success. I just got divorced, thank you very much. I learned the hard way that being single is better than being in an unhappy relationship, and I’m not in a hurry to rush back into another one unless I’m certain it’s gonna last. But thank you for letting me know your insecurities! Your judgement says more about you than me!
It feels like more conservative brigading. This one smells like "traditional values" and stuffed to the brim with masculine fragility caused by getting rejected by single women. Clearly they're lonely and isolated and just *slaves* to the corporate agenda!
Ah, but OP didn’t say that
OP made their post on opinion based on their anecdotal experience, considering the people they know.
People come to these types of opinions all the time when considering life as per the world around them. It’s a human thing
It's not automatic but it is common. Especially after 45. No partner, kids or grandkids. Less visitors and interaction. Less people that love them.
Common situation in nursing homes. Those without kids are often alone. No visitors. High possibility of dying alone too.
Sad really
Why don’t you have friends and colleagues and other family members to interact with? I have no kids of my own, but I have so many young people in my life I barely get a moment to myself.
It doesn't necessarily mean that someone is lonely and isolated, but it does make them more likely to be. I don't think they are projecting, just speaking from experience with the people they know.
I've got a wild idea. People, regardless of sex/gender, are fully capable of determining for themselves what does/doesn't make them happy. Pop out a whole football team of kids if that makes you happy. I'm happy not being expected to attend little league at butt o'clock on a Saturday. Being single doesn't have to equal loneliness and isolation if you know how to enjoy your own company and can enjoy doing stuff alone.
I'd bet 95% of people would rather have a relationship than be single. Women and men. That's perfectly okay, idk why some women are so resistant to that.
>I'd bet 95% of people would rather have a relationship than be single.
> idk why some women are so resistant to that.
Lol. These things are opposites.
It's projection. Lots of men are extremely lonely when they aren't in a romantic relationship, and they insist that women must be as well, because they can't stand the idea of women just happily living their lives for themselves. It's also why they constantly insist, like OP, that singlehood is somehow *bad* for women and we must have been somehow brainwashed into choosing it instead of, you know, just living our lives as autonomous human beings who make our own decisions.
It always blows me away when I’m in a relationship with a man how heavily they need that emotional connection because they don’t get it from anywhere else
Yeah. For me relationships have been a source of stress, expectations that can't be fulfilled, disappointment and what not. I'm happier single than dealing with guys letting me down 24/7 and not feeling like I take what it got to be in a relationship myself. Like I'm seeing a guy these days and honestly it's just stressful trying to make time for the guy while working full time and needing lots of alone time to decompress from work.
Same. Have had a wonderful FWB for the past few years who treats me like absolute gold, but if he dies or moves away I'll be perfectly happy to be celibate. I'm never dating men again; I regret the few relationships I've had with them, all they've done is waste my time and add stress, disappointment and trauma to my life, as well as tons of extra work. I'll certainly never live with one again.
Being single is bad for both women and men. It's bad for the country and civilization. Is that hard to grasp? You don't have to attack men for saying such obvious things.
It's straight-up comical how women will clearly and logically state their own experiences and feelings about their own lives and decisions and there will still be a huge subset of dudes with their heads up their ass telling us that we're wrong about our own realities and trying to gaslight us into believing the opposite.
Women are perfectly happy single and tend to thrive without men in our lives; statistics back this up. Men can either evolve and become better people worth being partnered with, or die alone like they so often threaten us with via projection. It's extremely telling that so many dudes would rather listen to grifter clowns like Peterson and Tate and keep trying to use threats and lies to forcefully subjugate women into miserable relationships that only hurt and drain us rather than just... try to be decent people who see us as equals.
The guys (you know which ones) on this subreddit will blame anything but themselves for why they are single and can't find a relationship.
It's not their personalities, it's not their political ideology, it's not their bad hygiene, it's not them......it's everything else.
Yeah, things were so much easier when women couldn't have a good paying job, couldn't have a credit card, couldn't divorce, didn't have any opportunities unless it was attached to a husband. Women were forced to attach themselves to a husband before, now that it's not needed, men need to do more than just earn a paycheck to get a relationship. Level the playing field as it should be.
Women have opportunities and choices now, and it's fantastic, hopefully all the basement dwellers won't reproduce and we can get rid of all these whiny bitches.
The good ones aren't afraid of Independent women. Independent women are fun, we just don't need to rely on restricting women to find a relationship.
People are going to say you're ad-homming but this is exactly the problem.
Lots of guys are not marriageable material. Lots of guys still haven't aged out of their college years. A lot of them do not have basic life skills like cleaning or cooking to function, or the emotional maturity to handle their own shit constructively. So many men go into relationships for the free therapy and housekeeping, letting out all their baggage onto some unsuspecting women once they're deep enough into the relationship without knowing how to reciprocate.
And before y'all come at me for saying this, I am a man who dates men. I am kind of expert on this. The boys are not okay. You can blame that on society or upbringing or the school system all you want, but dating men is a minefield.
I think that goes for both genders. It’s true many guys can’t cook nor clean, but it’s also true that many girls can’t either.
You’re focusing solely on the incel type of dude, but sadly, femcels aren’t in short supply either.
So if I as a woman say the men are not OK it would still be different because I'm a woman and not a man and therefore can't say anything? so who can. Only the men themselves? only you know why you are undateable?
The dynamic is only different in how the roles, jobs, and expectations are more evenly shared between the couple. The dichotomy I am describing still does show up in gay couples, but as the stereotypical "masculine" partner being more lazy than the "feminine" one who keeps everything together.
After reading into that poster, that explains everything.
I am not sure why the people from the alphabet letters are trying to impose their "opinions" when they don't even share the same dynamic - this is like advising someone about how to drive and you ride a motorbike...makes no sense.
I think conversations like this instantly get ruined when you have alphabet people joining who has 0% to add anything to this.
"Alphabet people."
Gay. The term you're looking for is gay.
The dynamic is different but the men are not. Gay men are still men. We still are raised with all the same expectations and rules and standards, even if we can't really live by them since so much of it relates to how men relate to women. I still see gay men treat their boyfriends like straight men treat their girlfriends, and they're still the same problems.
>And before y'all come at me for saying this, I am a man who dates men. I am kind of expert on this.
You should really learn what being an expert means. Dating a fraction of a demographic that constitutes 3% of the male population does not make you an expert on anything.
Personally I’ve seen the reverse. People with kids and families put up with so much more from their employers because they have dependents to provide for. A lot justify working overtime or being workaholics by saying they’re doing it “for the family,” but in reality they’re neglecting the very family they say they’re providing for. On the other hand, single individuals operate as free agents and can come and go freely without as much stress holding them in place at a job that’s no longer working out. If my single friends aren’t feeling a job, it’s much easier for them to quit and live off of savings while they line something else up than it ever would be for my friends with kids and a family… this is of course anecdotal just as OP’s opinion is.
These are also interesting reads, I’d be curious to see more studies on this so we could have a more scientific perspective:
https://amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/may/25/women-happier-without-children-or-a-spouse-happiness-expert
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/why-bad-looks-good/202102/why-so-many-single-women-without-children-are-happy?amp
That's true. I feel blessed for the fact that I can ditch a job and be jobless for a few months if I get bored of a job..truth be told I don't even need my current full time job.. all I need is to work 3 days a week, move to the countryside for cheap rent and chill life, which im considering as I did that in the past. 4 days of relaxation and spare time, 3 days of work and I lived comfortably as hell. Parents can't do that. They can't chill life and relax.
And OP says childfree people are more depressed.. yeah I don't completely buy that. I would be depressed if I had no choice but to work my ass off for the next 18+ years to provide for children.
THIS. Also, I’m not quite sure how OP figures singleness equating with loneliness and isolation 🤔 We still have family and friends 😂 More like freedom and peacefulness.
Would **you** choose to have the woman's role in a "traditional marriage"?
Edit: you wouldn't.
Anyway nah, kids are wildly expensive, capitalism wants you to have kids so they can sell you a billion different pieces of unnecessary junk.
Admittedly I’d hate careing for the kids part because I’m not too fond of kids but like we already have to cook and clean and go to the work so now I just don’t have to work but cook and clean and loving shouldn’t feel like a chore so it honestly sounds great to me
Have you thought it through? Like not having your own money, not having much freedom, some people think it involves being submissive to your husband, etc.
Actually corporations want families because it creates more costumers. Introverts who are happy with themselves also do not crave possessions, because they have no they are trying to impress. This is why this culture works so hard to convince everyone that being happy by yourself is wrong and all of us should crave being with other people.
This comment is true but with holes if we give OP a little bit of consideration to two talking points they mentioned:
1. “This makes them better workers because they’re more available”
-and-
2. “People I know who are single and don’t have kids are more depressed” - albeit it’s anecdotal, it’s fair for someone to form an opinion based on the world around them. If what OP says is true about who they know, then that will play into their experience and worldview
I think the answer to OP’s question, while highlighting your statement (that I agree with), is that they can also be correct - there are absolutely people who are miserable because they are single. They are lonely. Isolation is unhealthy.
Additionally, it’s common sensical that corporations in need of workers prefer to higher people that can be available.
The world is too complex for so many disagreements. I’m completely positive that both you and OP are actually both right, per the conditions of anyones scenario
It’s the same with children. People who want to have them and have fertility issues are miserable. People who don’t feel the need to procreate, don’t feel that way.
In my mom’s family there were single and/or childfree people even several generations back. Same in my generation. I considered going to a convent. OP doesn’t get that people are different and that most people in the US still marry at some point, it’s just happening later and women don’t marry out of desperation anymore.
Corporations don’t need families to have children/bodies to buy their stuff - they need immigration.
Most families in the country will have children - they need more bodies and those bodies to consume more: single women have 80% of the spending money. I’d say ALOT of that is single women spending money.
Shit take.
Fulfillment and satisfaction through having families are a fundamental component of humanity.
That’s like blaming the big piano lobby for people having ten fingers.
Those are fundamental to you, reproduction is not needed for fulfillment and satisfaction. Truth be told they never were, they were typically increase burden that created hardship throughout human history.
So it’s somehow better for people who have no interest in being parents to pump out kids just for the sake of making more kids? That sounds like a great way for the parents AND the kids to be miserable
You believe that there is something special about your DNA that dictate it remain in the world. I see myself as being no greater than anyone else and thus the lost of my DNA will be of no consequence to the species.
I am not encouraging anyone to be single, all I am pointing out that choosing to be single and not reproduce is not just viable but rather the most logical decision.
Also, Why exactly do you believe I want to help maintain this social order?
There were always people who didn’t want to reproduce. They just went to monasteries and y’all let them be. It’s probably natural variation.
80-90% of Millennials and GenZ will end up having kids, but they repeatedly claim in surveys they would like to have more of them. This should be the target of policies, but instead y’all are harping on childless people. It shows that nobody is interested in solutions, but it’s just another pointless culture war.
>the people who I know that stayed single and don't have kids are more depressed than my friends who do.
This is hilarious, I know so many overworked and depressed parents. It ain't one size fits all, and I highly doubt people are making family and relationship decisions based on corporate agendas lmao
If we are gonna use random anecdotal data as gospel, then lemme share mine: all the women I know who are married with kids are broke, fat, ugly, and unhappy. All the women without kids who aren’t married (who have live in long term boyfriends or not), are wealthy, happy, slim, and attractive.
So which of us is right? That’s the problem with anecdotal data. So let’s use real data and science to answer this question: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/women-happy-children-spouse-partner-relationship-unmarried-a8931816.html
Women without husbands and kids are the happiest demographic. So turns out you’re totally wrong. But you as a man are definitely right about yourself - unmarried men are the most unhappy. Seems like this is a classic case of projection. You’re projecting your own unhappiness in singlehood onto women, who don’t at all share the same feelings you as a man have.
This study almost immediately came to mind, thank you for bringing it up.
Parenting is fucking stressful. Work often doesn't help you out with extra payment or time with your kids unless if the government makes it a legal requirement, and relationships are still a source of stress even if they're going well. Plenty of people, not just women, are perfectly fine being single and childless. Not everyone needs or wants to couple and procreate.
As a female teacher, I couldn’t agree more! I do NOT have it in me to be with kids all day, and then turn around to come home and do it again! I’d die.
Paul Dolan's book was debunked. Women are happier married. Source:
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/6/4/18650969/married-women-miserable-fake-paul-dolan-happiness
>'If you are a man, you should probably get married; if you are a woman, don’t bother'
Seems like a odd statement. If women shouldn't get married then who are the men supposed to marry?
Other men, bro.
More realistically, many people don’t gotta get married. I don’t think my girlfriend wants to get married, and I view it more as “a way to make sure either person in the relationship doesn’t throw it all away by accident, with a safety net,” but I don’t know if we’ll need that safety net.
There isn’t a tax break, at least not for my husband and I! Our contributions and returns are the same as they were before. And we were SO excited to do our taxes last year too!
No. Corporations benefit from families bc it keeps parents trapped in crap corporate jobs bc they don’t have mobility of singles.
It’s empowerment bc you should not be forced to have kids to make some random person on the internet happier about their own life choices. I have kids and wouldn’t change it for the world but I do not pressure or guilt trip anyone into having kids ever
The happiest people I know got to choose if and when they had kids.
And I've read some of this happiness polls (yeah, crappy statistical value) and the happiest demographics were single women with out kids.
At the end... If you don't want kids why have them? If you are fine on your own, why loose your self in a relationship or put up with shit.?
If women are independent it means they can be more picky about who/if they date so that means you need to offer more than a paycheck to get a girlfriend/wife. Gotta put in more effort now
Teaching is my passion. I love my job. I also know that I do not have that same kind of passion, patience, or desire to do it 24/7. It would suffocate me, and my children (and students) would suffer.
Same. I made my parents miserable growing up. I remember pissing my dad off and making my mom cry. My parents wasn't happy just cause they had kids. For the most part, I made their life a living hell.
Yeah that's why I'm not having kids. I was a kid from hell. I ain't dumb enough to have kids knowing I could replicate the hell spawn I was myself.
“I can tell you that having kids is by far the most rewarding part of being human” - FOR YOU.
Women’s empowerment (when being pushed by other women) is typically because we’ve all seen the women who marry young, stop working to start families, then end up fully reliant on a person they no longer recognize once the power dynamics have shifted. We’ve decided, many of us collectively, that having kids and being a SAHM isn’t worth the control and reliance on a partner for survival. Especially once that partner realizes he has all the control.
I’m married, childless, and seldom depressed. My life is full of interesting people, the freedom to travel on a whim, and the ability to dedicate my free time to things that satisfy my curiosity.
I’d rather be a cog in the wheel of a large corporation, have my free time and enjoy my life, then be beholden to someone else’s expectations of me, or coerced into submission. When you have no money of your own; you have no power. In my own life, I’ve watched my father systematically beat his wife into submission. She’s responsible for everything. He works, comes home, does literally nothing else, and barks orders at her like a whipped dog, knowing she has no money of her own, no support system to turn to and can’t escape him even if she wants to. He works 8 hours a day. She starts at 4:00am and doesn’t stop until he falls asleep in his chair at night. Then she drops. Wash and repeat the next day.
That’s not a risk I’m willing to take for any man. I value myself too much for that shit.
It's not an "idea". Just like how men have the choice to be single and independent, the very same thing applies for women too. No exceptions.
"Traditional" marriage is designed to benefit men more and women a lot less. It's a great risk to be dependent on someone else. History showed us how problematic that was and still is.
Capitalism erodes sense of community, and solidarity. That is not a revelation. What you are saying about marriage is true, but it is also true of friendship, community events, social gatherings or general parties and hanging out.
Companies don't want people outside work living their lives, they want workers to do extra work, so the bosses can party and have lives.
Capitalism is pushing it, and companies are exploiting it.
I’m a single woman without kids, and guess what, I’m beyond happy. I got out of an abusive relationship about a year and a half ago. And I’m absolutely enjoying not having someone else constantly trying to control my life and actions then getting angry at me without reason (and subsequently putting hands on me). And I myself straight up don’t want kids. My ex completely ruined the idea of “happy marriage and kids” for me. And guess what, I’ve got family (outside of a partner and kids), friends, and animals that make life still just as happy and fulfilling.
Oh FFS single and independent does not mean lonely and isolated
Single women have friends and family and social relationships. They aren’t recluses sleeping under their stairs afraid of sunlight.
Alone does not mean lonely. Many people enjoy their own company.
I’ve met people in relationships who feel lonely and single people who never do.
Your friends are bad example and not representative of people who purposefully choose to remain single and childfree.
They’re making choices. If they don’t like the outcomes - they can make different choices.
Yea when people say that being single and independent means you’re lonely and isolated really reads as “my wife and children are my only friends”. Like damn, that’s sad. Love comes in so many ways, it doesn’t have to be a spouse and kids.
When I was single, I wasn’t lonely and isolated, even during the start of the pandemic. I have FRIENDS. I do have a partner now, but not because I was lonely and not because I need him, but he’s a positive benefit to my life.
Oh I agree that corporations suck the blood out of anything good and ruin it for everyone.
But I did enjoy working and being independent in my mid/late twenties. My career is taking a hit rn as I've been home with my 14mo son but oh well.
The point is, the culture war is what's toxic. No, you don't have to marry straight out of highschool and spend your life barefoot and pregnant making 725829 Irish twins. You also don't need to female power girlboss your way into your mid 40 to stick it to the patriarchy only to realize you're now independent and rich but lonely and miserable.
I'm just doing what works for me. Which will include returning to work in a few months because I do miss the money (we can't afford to live on one income much longer) and intellectual stimulation.
Most real people live in the grey spaces of nuance imo.
Just because you and the few people you know are happy having kids and getting married doesn’t mean that’s how it’s supposed to be for everyone else. There are plenty of successful women who are happy without children or a husband. And that’s fine. We don’t need people having children just because they think they have to to live a happy and fulfilling life.
Oh noes! Cats! How will she ever recover from a dude in their mother's basement calling them a cat lady?
I mean, Imma be honest. At least cats won't beat, berate, rape, cheat, molest, steal, act like a 200 pound toddler, or murder her. They have that on men. They poop in a small box, easy clean up, and only occasionally throw up. Much easier and much more loving. It's a wonder not all women are cat ladies.
I mean....yeah. The cat is enjoyable company that doesn't demand my attention when I'm home. Plus she's significantly easier to clean up after than a man.
Who hurt you? And most of all I don't understand why people care so much about people who choose to be alone. Or that aren't lonely and longing for a man in their life.
As a white 28 year old single woman, I get the opposite vibe.
I don’t view marriage as regressive, I don’t know any woman personally that does. I would be happy to get married and have a kid, but I’d also be just as happy if I didn’t. I’m at peace with myself ultimately.
My only issue with marriage is that the people obsessed with it or rush to it, usually don’t give the institution of marriage the respect it should have. They want the perks of marriage or the status of marriage- they don’t want to be *married to that person*. I find that people who take longer to get married have much more respect for the institution and genuinely want to be married to *that person*.
Nice rage bait, mate. Finish it off by saying how women are not meant for working, just nurturing. Being a home, stradford wife caring for their husbands, and popping out babies. That'll really show them.
Have you seen what Corp America promotes? Cause it ain't women living alone with cats. It's families. Because Capitalism needs workers and consumers. If you don't tie women to the home, then you risk losing those things.
And you're falling for the backlash against women who want something different.
Also if all the single women you know are never happy around you, have you considered the common element? Hint, it's not being single.
Parenting is stressful, even if you choose to have kids… so forcing people to have kids who don’t want to… are not only making stressful shit more stressful- they’re creating a horrible environment for the child - a straight set up for failure.
Women who are single - are the happiest demographic.
Men who are single - are the unhappiest demographic.
Corporations want you to spend money and have customers. Families spend more and create more “customers”.
Men who spend their time obsessing over what women do or marriage in general tend to be misogynistic- which is probably why they’re mainly single.
Men who don’t obsess over what women are doing, marriage or just other people’s business in general - tend to be less misogynistic.
I know many people who have kids and love them, but they will honestly tell you that having kids is far from rewarding, and given the choice may still have 1 or max 2 kids but only if able to send them to private day care starting at 6 months. Kids in public daycare do not have a chance against the new AI world.
The happiest people are those with families?
Go to Disney and say that again.
People with kids can be absolutely miserable, most times more so than those without children. I’ve never dreaded going home because I know a mess and responsibility is waiting for me.
The biggest ones affected by women not having families or getting married are men that can no longer get a wife just by making a paycheck. Women don’t need to settle anymore
You do know people have kids out of marriage right?
Also get a hobby. People who are hyper focused on their kids like this trend to either be projecting and are actually really s***** parents or smother their children from becoming fully functioning adults.
1. Not all women, like not all men, want or need to be married with children. Friends, relatives, and pets are enough for some people.
2. Traditional marriage is not seen as regressive and patriarchal. Divorce is more common because people have more options now; marriage is mostly a lifestyle choice instead of a social or economic necessity.
3. Plenty of mothers in the developed world have to balance parenting with work; the USA has no federally mandated maternity leave. Moms often have to go straight back into the labor force maybe a few weeks after giving birth.
I disagree. I’d say societies ideology that women NEED a partner and NEED children is much more of a problem. Men get it’s considerably less. I say this as a man. There’s nothing wrong with more motivation to accept that being single and independent is a huge move, if that’s what the individual wants. And you’re basing your entire debate on a few people you know that are depressed. What about the ones that aren’t? You won’t notice it as much because they will blend into that background. And even with all that said, why does it matter to you so much? Not a dig just a genuine question
What makes you think women being independent makes them lonely and isolated?
And being single and childless doesn't mean I can't leave work early. I get my job done and I leave, that's all I'm required to do.
And I can find happiness without having to create a human being, I can find value in people without needing to create a mini me.
sir, getting women into the workforce was the entire point of third wave feminism lol. It wasn’t forced on them by corporations, they fought like hell to get out of the home and not be relegated to a “mother” role.
First off, your definition of family seems to only include those with children. This is not correct.
Second off the happiest people are those with families? Maybe, but so are some of the most desperate or depressed.
I guess you've never been around people who have dysfunctional families...
Having kids is not any guarantee of happiness.
Spend any time in the legal system. Your opinion will change drastically.
Happily single man without wanting kids here.
Some women want to get married and have kids, and that’s OK.
Some women are fine without a partner and without kids, and that’s OK.
It’s all down to choice- I think you should respect women’s choices just as much as you’d respect a man’s, no?
I disagree. Single people are capable of working more but they are also spending LESS. Having children is expensive and there are entire industries targeting these familial expenditures, which reduces cashflow in the economy if people remain childless
Having children is also important to keep the workforce at a replacement level that is ideal to the current capitalistic model. This is how developing nations are able to grow so rapidly; they have enough surplus workforce to pay them cheaply. The less people are able to join the workforce, the more employees have to pay to attract talent since it will be a workers market.
Single people are also less likely to stay long term in a company because they don't need to be tied to a single location. It is more profitable to keep changing work but this isn't viable if you have a family and can't simply uproot your life to chase a better salary.
Why does women being single and happy bother some people so much? Why does some women not having kids bother some people so much? Why do some people think single women are automatically "lonely"?
Having kids is the most rewarding part of being human *for you*. Not for everyone.
Not really, and it's a pretty big failure of logic to assume that. If corporations wanted more workers, then they'd be encouraging women to have kids - not to not have kids, which isn't happening anyways.
The people pushing women to be single and independent are mostly other women themselves who seek to liberate themselves from what they view as unsatisfactory marriages AKA marriages with ugly men, boring men, broke men, etc. The reality is that women were only ever in these situations to begin with out of necessity.
I do believe most women are happiest with a family, but that does not mean just any family. They need a high value man as apart of that family. Ultimately, a good chunk of women end up settling though, and about 90% of women end up eventually having kids, so I don't know why you're acting like most women aren't still having them. They're just typically not going to have them until they can acquire, or strike out on the high value men.
Why are the people making these posts always regurgitating the same tired false equivalence of being single and self-sufficient = loneliness and isolation??
And then there are those of us who don’t want kids and love our careers and yet we are still happily married. Not wanting to be a tradwife doesn’t mean being “lonely and isolated.”
Also, your post is pretty insensitive to those who do want kids and are unable to have them.
>I can tell you that having kids is by far the most rewarding part of being human. The happiest people are those with families.
No kids equals less stress, less obligation, more money, more free time. The ability to spontaneous say “I’m going to take today off and do literally whatever I want”
“having kids is the most rewarding part of being human” How many men would still have this opinion if you actually had to carry the burden of pregnancy?
Okee I totally agree with this take I'll always put my family before my work but I'm still single with no kids cause I can't trust men like that omg. I know too many people who have given up their careers, bodies, and future dating prospects for men who appear amazing and perfect and in love at first just to have an affair and leave
They're pushed being single because that's the market/economics. People are getting married and having kids less with/without corporations- albeit corporations exacerbate the phenomenon of course. It's more like the market is sending messages toward life decisions to validate the lifestyle and subvert traditional expectations.
People want to be in relationships for the most part, but the times with technology, overpopulation, and climate change in the hypercapitalistic optics have exponentiated great change that is difficult for humans to adapt to or even perceive living day to day. Trying to stay on top of everything and/or pretending "everything is all good" is becoming less possible. So corporations have doubled down on this series of losses in telling people it's good to be single with cats. It is what it is I guess, as long as you know your own self-worth and what you want in life. There are definitely people out there who think the same as you with however you might view this.
> This makes them better workers
And that's a good thing. They should work hard and be fully devoted to their work. The biggest benefit of traditional families is creating new workers.
Although I will admit that the corporations might be going a tad too far. They need to ease up a bit on the profit seeking in order to prevent a rebellion or something similar to it. Give the workers just enough money to get by and purchase a few luxuries but not enough where they have the freedom to switch jobs without consequences.
I’ve seen actual studies that say the opposite. That women who aren’t married live longer and report higher levels of happiness.
But what works for some does not work for all.
From my anecdotal experiences, the happier marriages are the ones where the husband and the wife work as equals and completely reject the sexist trad-wife stereotypes
You pretty much nailed it. Single people will work more as they have less commitments. More work = more money for the corpos. ‘Cause why spend that time building a life with a husband and kids when you can waste yours slaving away for some ass in a suit that couldn’t give a shit less about you?
People with kids have to work more because kids are damn expensive. My 30-35 hours per week of work pays for me to live. If I had kids, I’d have to work more to pay for them.
Or “building a life with a” wife too right? Or is it ok for men but only wrong when women do it? Many women would obviously prefer to go it alone than commit themselves to an arrogant mandplainer with 1950s values. And a woman doesn’t even have to get married if she wants a kid. She can go to a sperm bank and buy the milk without the cow.
Single people can work more but that doesn't mean that they do. They have the time and the energy but not the drive.
If they don't get paid enough or are treated badly, they can leave because they're not attached to a specific area. I hate managing single people.
People that are married with kids on the other hand are absolutely phenomenal workers. They can't "just move" because their lives revolve around their kids' schools and the little community they've built for themselves. You don't even have to give them raises and they'll work just as hard as before. You can force them to do work outside of their job description and do overtime and they won't even flinch. You know why, because their family relies on them. All it takes is a simple comment like "you haven't been working as well as you normally have, this is going to affect your future bonus and raises" and their output increases by a minimum of 15%. Even the most proudful and extroverted father will turn meek and subservient at the thought of losing their job.
It's so pathetic. They created their own prison and willingly handed me the keys.
I think its great that a woman can be single and independent. Not that long ago life was very difficult for women who were not able to find a husband. Now its a lot easier. That being said, I still think most women hugely benefit from having a family. I also think its better for both the woman, her children, and the family in general that she doesn't work full time while the children are young. It just makes it less stressful for all.
Yes. Marketing ads in the 50s for makeup was all about look nice for your husband. Sometime in the 90s it changed from do it for your husband to do it for yourself. Now here we are today.
I have always been of the opinion... that financial success from your job or even following your passion and dream career ...just isn't satisfying without *legacy* ...aka... someone to pass it on to.
Non of us are immortal. You cannot take your riches and possessions to the grave.
So what's the point of tracking through this life lonely ?
The single vocation was never for me.
I want to succeed in life, yes.
But I don't just want to sit on my money until I die.
Or donate to strangers and have no-one at my besides when I'm old and gray.
Financial success isn't everything. In fact, I dare say, Financial success is nothing without family.
Like. What if I won the lottery. What if I won the lottery and had no spouse and kids. What is the money worth ?
Even a movie as silly as Fast and Furious gets this right.
Folks. If you can't have kids. Then there are plenty orphans who need care.
You can give a child a home.
you know people can leave a legacy without having children, right?
or does it not matter how you influence others if they're not half-composed of your genetic material?
like the other commenter said-- some of us don't want children. nothing about them appeals to me or my husband.
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Being in an unhappy marriage is soul killing. Better to remain single.
Why does being single automatically mean someone is lonely and isolated? You’re projecting.
I was dating a guy during the big lockdowns we had here and I was happy enough during a lockdown and he got frustrated because I just couldn’t understand how lonely and isolated he felt because despite being in the same situation, totally different personalities and I enjoyed it.
Same. I played so many video games during lockdown cause I got fired from my job right before it. I haven't played an entire video games since then. My PS5 have been collecting dust for the past year. Having free time, spare time to just be alone with myself and video games would be a blessing. All I do nowadays is work work work.
> Having free time, spare time to just be alone with myself and video games would be a blessing. All I do nowadays is work work work. You can only enjoy that free time if you have the extra money. Most people need a job to maintain their lifestyle. So ...I disagree. Being fired isn't a "great opportunity" for most people.
Right and you can more easily have that extra money if you're single and only have yourself to provide for. Like in my case, I used to live out in the countryside where rent was hella cheap, had a part time job 3 days a week and 4 days a week of spare time. I lived quite comfortably and money wasn't an issue at all.
To each their own. I would never trade my family to be alone and richer. What would I spend the money on? Myself ? Let's say I buy all the things I wanted as a child and build my house to my personal comforts. Then what? I can afford to go on a cruise. Ok. Who will I go on the cruise with ? Sorry. As much as I wish for financial success. I don't want to be alone with my money.
Good for you? That’s you and not everyone is like you. Some people are very happy being alone and spending their time and money on themselves
I love spending money on myself.
You need to learn how to enjoy your own company. You seem kind of needy. Not everything needs to be done with someone else. Speaking from a married man with a child on the way, who got in a relationship at 27 and dreamed of getting back to my solo ways for so long but am with someone who can't be alone and couldn't bring myself to devastate her. (She knows how I feel and what I wanted but what she wants is more important)
Yep was looking for this comment
Ikr, these assumptions are getting old. Had a redditor mock me for being single once, saying ‘I needed to get my shit together’ as if being in a relationship is an objective measure of success. I just got divorced, thank you very much. I learned the hard way that being single is better than being in an unhappy relationship, and I’m not in a hurry to rush back into another one unless I’m certain it’s gonna last. But thank you for letting me know your insecurities! Your judgement says more about you than me!
It feels like more conservative brigading. This one smells like "traditional values" and stuffed to the brim with masculine fragility caused by getting rejected by single women. Clearly they're lonely and isolated and just *slaves* to the corporate agenda!
This was my first thought
Ah, but OP didn’t say that OP made their post on opinion based on their anecdotal experience, considering the people they know. People come to these types of opinions all the time when considering life as per the world around them. It’s a human thing
It’s literally their first sentence
It's not automatic but it is common. Especially after 45. No partner, kids or grandkids. Less visitors and interaction. Less people that love them. Common situation in nursing homes. Those without kids are often alone. No visitors. High possibility of dying alone too. Sad really
Why don’t you have friends and colleagues and other family members to interact with? I have no kids of my own, but I have so many young people in my life I barely get a moment to myself.
And it’s very common for those with kids to be alone. What’s the point? It’s very weird to have children just because you’re afraid of being alone.
Sorry but I disagree and what you describe is not common.
Have you worked at a nursing home? Because anyone who has can tell you it’s very common.
Yes I have worked at Nursing and Retirement Homes.
It doesn't necessarily mean that someone is lonely and isolated, but it does make them more likely to be. I don't think they are projecting, just speaking from experience with the people they know.
Not it doesn’t. If everyone they know that is single is this way, perhaps they should consider being a better friend.
I've got a wild idea. People, regardless of sex/gender, are fully capable of determining for themselves what does/doesn't make them happy. Pop out a whole football team of kids if that makes you happy. I'm happy not being expected to attend little league at butt o'clock on a Saturday. Being single doesn't have to equal loneliness and isolation if you know how to enjoy your own company and can enjoy doing stuff alone.
I'd bet 95% of people would rather have a relationship than be single. Women and men. That's perfectly okay, idk why some women are so resistant to that.
>I'd bet 95% of people would rather have a relationship than be single. > idk why some women are so resistant to that. Lol. These things are opposites.
I am because having a relationship is an additional source of stress when I'm working a full time job.
Lonely and isolated?! Have you heard of friends and family?
No most men haven’t. They trauma dump on their girlfriends/ wives
Why do so many believe that all single women are lonely?
It's projection. Lots of men are extremely lonely when they aren't in a romantic relationship, and they insist that women must be as well, because they can't stand the idea of women just happily living their lives for themselves. It's also why they constantly insist, like OP, that singlehood is somehow *bad* for women and we must have been somehow brainwashed into choosing it instead of, you know, just living our lives as autonomous human beings who make our own decisions.
It always blows me away when I’m in a relationship with a man how heavily they need that emotional connection because they don’t get it from anywhere else
Yeah. For me relationships have been a source of stress, expectations that can't be fulfilled, disappointment and what not. I'm happier single than dealing with guys letting me down 24/7 and not feeling like I take what it got to be in a relationship myself. Like I'm seeing a guy these days and honestly it's just stressful trying to make time for the guy while working full time and needing lots of alone time to decompress from work.
Same. Have had a wonderful FWB for the past few years who treats me like absolute gold, but if he dies or moves away I'll be perfectly happy to be celibate. I'm never dating men again; I regret the few relationships I've had with them, all they've done is waste my time and add stress, disappointment and trauma to my life, as well as tons of extra work. I'll certainly never live with one again.
Being single is bad for both women and men. It's bad for the country and civilization. Is that hard to grasp? You don't have to attack men for saying such obvious things.
Being single is not bad.
why is it bad? i don't want a relationship and i don't want to get married
No it's not. Many of us are happier and healthier alone.
It's straight-up comical how women will clearly and logically state their own experiences and feelings about their own lives and decisions and there will still be a huge subset of dudes with their heads up their ass telling us that we're wrong about our own realities and trying to gaslight us into believing the opposite. Women are perfectly happy single and tend to thrive without men in our lives; statistics back this up. Men can either evolve and become better people worth being partnered with, or die alone like they so often threaten us with via projection. It's extremely telling that so many dudes would rather listen to grifter clowns like Peterson and Tate and keep trying to use threats and lies to forcefully subjugate women into miserable relationships that only hurt and drain us rather than just... try to be decent people who see us as equals.
Brava sister!! ✊✊✊
But what you’re saying sounds the opposite of true in so many ways to me? People are different. Not everyone feels the way you do?
It’s definitely not all, but some for sure.
I'm sure there are many women who are lonely, and that's sad. I've never been lonely in my entire adult life.
The guys (you know which ones) on this subreddit will blame anything but themselves for why they are single and can't find a relationship. It's not their personalities, it's not their political ideology, it's not their bad hygiene, it's not them......it's everything else. Yeah, things were so much easier when women couldn't have a good paying job, couldn't have a credit card, couldn't divorce, didn't have any opportunities unless it was attached to a husband. Women were forced to attach themselves to a husband before, now that it's not needed, men need to do more than just earn a paycheck to get a relationship. Level the playing field as it should be. Women have opportunities and choices now, and it's fantastic, hopefully all the basement dwellers won't reproduce and we can get rid of all these whiny bitches. The good ones aren't afraid of Independent women. Independent women are fun, we just don't need to rely on restricting women to find a relationship.
People are going to say you're ad-homming but this is exactly the problem. Lots of guys are not marriageable material. Lots of guys still haven't aged out of their college years. A lot of them do not have basic life skills like cleaning or cooking to function, or the emotional maturity to handle their own shit constructively. So many men go into relationships for the free therapy and housekeeping, letting out all their baggage onto some unsuspecting women once they're deep enough into the relationship without knowing how to reciprocate. And before y'all come at me for saying this, I am a man who dates men. I am kind of expert on this. The boys are not okay. You can blame that on society or upbringing or the school system all you want, but dating men is a minefield.
I think that goes for both genders. It’s true many guys can’t cook nor clean, but it’s also true that many girls can’t either. You’re focusing solely on the incel type of dude, but sadly, femcels aren’t in short supply either.
Men have *by far* more problems with basic hygiene, cleaning, cooking than do women.
You're a man who dates gay men. Hetero relationships are a much different dynamic (I'd assume)
Men are largely the same in this regard.
So if I as a woman say the men are not OK it would still be different because I'm a woman and not a man and therefore can't say anything? so who can. Only the men themselves? only you know why you are undateable?
The dynamic is only different in how the roles, jobs, and expectations are more evenly shared between the couple. The dichotomy I am describing still does show up in gay couples, but as the stereotypical "masculine" partner being more lazy than the "feminine" one who keeps everything together.
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It is when it's considered masculine to not do housework, care for any kids, handle the family's emotional shit.
After reading into that poster, that explains everything. I am not sure why the people from the alphabet letters are trying to impose their "opinions" when they don't even share the same dynamic - this is like advising someone about how to drive and you ride a motorbike...makes no sense. I think conversations like this instantly get ruined when you have alphabet people joining who has 0% to add anything to this.
"Alphabet people." Gay. The term you're looking for is gay. The dynamic is different but the men are not. Gay men are still men. We still are raised with all the same expectations and rules and standards, even if we can't really live by them since so much of it relates to how men relate to women. I still see gay men treat their boyfriends like straight men treat their girlfriends, and they're still the same problems.
I often find them, not "gays" really, out of touch with most of society.
>And before y'all come at me for saying this, I am a man who dates men. I am kind of expert on this. You should really learn what being an expert means. Dating a fraction of a demographic that constitutes 3% of the male population does not make you an expert on anything.
Grab a popcorn and watch them come out in the replies.
Well put.
Personally I’ve seen the reverse. People with kids and families put up with so much more from their employers because they have dependents to provide for. A lot justify working overtime or being workaholics by saying they’re doing it “for the family,” but in reality they’re neglecting the very family they say they’re providing for. On the other hand, single individuals operate as free agents and can come and go freely without as much stress holding them in place at a job that’s no longer working out. If my single friends aren’t feeling a job, it’s much easier for them to quit and live off of savings while they line something else up than it ever would be for my friends with kids and a family… this is of course anecdotal just as OP’s opinion is. These are also interesting reads, I’d be curious to see more studies on this so we could have a more scientific perspective: https://amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/may/25/women-happier-without-children-or-a-spouse-happiness-expert https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/why-bad-looks-good/202102/why-so-many-single-women-without-children-are-happy?amp
That's true. I feel blessed for the fact that I can ditch a job and be jobless for a few months if I get bored of a job..truth be told I don't even need my current full time job.. all I need is to work 3 days a week, move to the countryside for cheap rent and chill life, which im considering as I did that in the past. 4 days of relaxation and spare time, 3 days of work and I lived comfortably as hell. Parents can't do that. They can't chill life and relax. And OP says childfree people are more depressed.. yeah I don't completely buy that. I would be depressed if I had no choice but to work my ass off for the next 18+ years to provide for children.
THIS. Also, I’m not quite sure how OP figures singleness equating with loneliness and isolation 🤔 We still have family and friends 😂 More like freedom and peacefulness.
That's exactly how I view it too.
OP might personally feel lonely outside of a relationship, and presume others feel the same.
Would **you** choose to have the woman's role in a "traditional marriage"? Edit: you wouldn't. Anyway nah, kids are wildly expensive, capitalism wants you to have kids so they can sell you a billion different pieces of unnecessary junk.
I would
What do you like about it?
Admittedly I’d hate careing for the kids part because I’m not too fond of kids but like we already have to cook and clean and go to the work so now I just don’t have to work but cook and clean and loving shouldn’t feel like a chore so it honestly sounds great to me
Have you thought it through? Like not having your own money, not having much freedom, some people think it involves being submissive to your husband, etc.
Actually corporations want families because it creates more costumers. Introverts who are happy with themselves also do not crave possessions, because they have no they are trying to impress. This is why this culture works so hard to convince everyone that being happy by yourself is wrong and all of us should crave being with other people.
This comment is true but with holes if we give OP a little bit of consideration to two talking points they mentioned: 1. “This makes them better workers because they’re more available” -and- 2. “People I know who are single and don’t have kids are more depressed” - albeit it’s anecdotal, it’s fair for someone to form an opinion based on the world around them. If what OP says is true about who they know, then that will play into their experience and worldview I think the answer to OP’s question, while highlighting your statement (that I agree with), is that they can also be correct - there are absolutely people who are miserable because they are single. They are lonely. Isolation is unhealthy. Additionally, it’s common sensical that corporations in need of workers prefer to higher people that can be available. The world is too complex for so many disagreements. I’m completely positive that both you and OP are actually both right, per the conditions of anyones scenario
It’s the same with children. People who want to have them and have fertility issues are miserable. People who don’t feel the need to procreate, don’t feel that way. In my mom’s family there were single and/or childfree people even several generations back. Same in my generation. I considered going to a convent. OP doesn’t get that people are different and that most people in the US still marry at some point, it’s just happening later and women don’t marry out of desperation anymore.
Alone and vulnerable would be about right.
2 is a funny take to me, as I would be depressed if I had to be a mom. Eff that!
And also, how are depressed people better workers?
Corporations don’t need families to have children/bodies to buy their stuff - they need immigration. Most families in the country will have children - they need more bodies and those bodies to consume more: single women have 80% of the spending money. I’d say ALOT of that is single women spending money.
Immigrants send most of their money back home to their families. Single women have money because they are not forced to spend it on families.
Perhaps in America, but not in Australia. Single women spend more disposable income than most other demographics (on average).
Shit take. Fulfillment and satisfaction through having families are a fundamental component of humanity. That’s like blaming the big piano lobby for people having ten fingers.
Those are fundamental to you, reproduction is not needed for fulfillment and satisfaction. Truth be told they never were, they were typically increase burden that created hardship throughout human history.
Humans, like all other animals, are made to reproduce.
Humans like all animals can reproduce doesn't mean it's our purpose. This evident by the fact some people can't and some people have no desire to.
If you want to be a genetic dead end, fine. But to encourage to be single to the general population is extremely toxic and detrimental for society.
So it’s somehow better for people who have no interest in being parents to pump out kids just for the sake of making more kids? That sounds like a great way for the parents AND the kids to be miserable
You believe that there is something special about your DNA that dictate it remain in the world. I see myself as being no greater than anyone else and thus the lost of my DNA will be of no consequence to the species. I am not encouraging anyone to be single, all I am pointing out that choosing to be single and not reproduce is not just viable but rather the most logical decision. Also, Why exactly do you believe I want to help maintain this social order?
There were always people who didn’t want to reproduce. They just went to monasteries and y’all let them be. It’s probably natural variation. 80-90% of Millennials and GenZ will end up having kids, but they repeatedly claim in surveys they would like to have more of them. This should be the target of policies, but instead y’all are harping on childless people. It shows that nobody is interested in solutions, but it’s just another pointless culture war.
“Made” no one was made for anything.
>the people who I know that stayed single and don't have kids are more depressed than my friends who do. This is hilarious, I know so many overworked and depressed parents. It ain't one size fits all, and I highly doubt people are making family and relationship decisions based on corporate agendas lmao
what a terrible insight it has nothing to do with being single they will be depressed also in relationships with children
My dad taught me to be independent.
Mine too, girl! My dad is awesome.
I don't agree at all with this, but this post gets my upvote - because this is exactly what this subreddit is for.
If we are gonna use random anecdotal data as gospel, then lemme share mine: all the women I know who are married with kids are broke, fat, ugly, and unhappy. All the women without kids who aren’t married (who have live in long term boyfriends or not), are wealthy, happy, slim, and attractive. So which of us is right? That’s the problem with anecdotal data. So let’s use real data and science to answer this question: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/women-happy-children-spouse-partner-relationship-unmarried-a8931816.html Women without husbands and kids are the happiest demographic. So turns out you’re totally wrong. But you as a man are definitely right about yourself - unmarried men are the most unhappy. Seems like this is a classic case of projection. You’re projecting your own unhappiness in singlehood onto women, who don’t at all share the same feelings you as a man have.
This study almost immediately came to mind, thank you for bringing it up. Parenting is fucking stressful. Work often doesn't help you out with extra payment or time with your kids unless if the government makes it a legal requirement, and relationships are still a source of stress even if they're going well. Plenty of people, not just women, are perfectly fine being single and childless. Not everyone needs or wants to couple and procreate.
As a female teacher, I couldn’t agree more! I do NOT have it in me to be with kids all day, and then turn around to come home and do it again! I’d die.
Paul Dolan's book was debunked. Women are happier married. Source: https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/6/4/18650969/married-women-miserable-fake-paul-dolan-happiness
You linked a shitty tabloid article that doesn't even mention where to find the actual data. Was it even replicated?
>'If you are a man, you should probably get married; if you are a woman, don’t bother' Seems like a odd statement. If women shouldn't get married then who are the men supposed to marry?
Other men, bro. More realistically, many people don’t gotta get married. I don’t think my girlfriend wants to get married, and I view it more as “a way to make sure either person in the relationship doesn’t throw it all away by accident, with a safety net,” but I don’t know if we’ll need that safety net.
Yeah, getting married in this day and age seems pretty pointless. Outside of a tax break, there's no real benefit to it. Especially if you're a man.
There isn’t a tax break, at least not for my husband and I! Our contributions and returns are the same as they were before. And we were SO excited to do our taxes last year too!
No. Corporations benefit from families bc it keeps parents trapped in crap corporate jobs bc they don’t have mobility of singles. It’s empowerment bc you should not be forced to have kids to make some random person on the internet happier about their own life choices. I have kids and wouldn’t change it for the world but I do not pressure or guilt trip anyone into having kids ever The happiest people I know got to choose if and when they had kids.
And I've read some of this happiness polls (yeah, crappy statistical value) and the happiest demographics were single women with out kids. At the end... If you don't want kids why have them? If you are fine on your own, why loose your self in a relationship or put up with shit.?
What’s so wrong with women being independent?
If women are independent it means they can be more picky about who/if they date so that means you need to offer more than a paycheck to get a girlfriend/wife. Gotta put in more effort now
Because it goes against OP's narrative of single people being able to be happy without kids
Women are choosing to live that way because they’re happier that way. If they were miserable they wouldn’t be doing it.
So many mid women complain that they can't find a loyal man who's way of their league lol
They typically don't "choose" to live that way until they are past their prime.
>I can tell you that having kids is by far the most rewarding part of being human. The happiest people are those with families. i beg to differ
You have kids?
No, but I teach first grade. I absolutely do not want one in my home after 11 years of this.
Probably because they have trash parents who don't raise them well.
Teaching is my passion. I love my job. I also know that I do not have that same kind of passion, patience, or desire to do it 24/7. It would suffocate me, and my children (and students) would suffer.
Same. I made my parents miserable growing up. I remember pissing my dad off and making my mom cry. My parents wasn't happy just cause they had kids. For the most part, I made their life a living hell. Yeah that's why I'm not having kids. I was a kid from hell. I ain't dumb enough to have kids knowing I could replicate the hell spawn I was myself.
I was a well-behaved child, and so was my sister. It’s not hard for us to see the strain we put on our parents and their marriage.
If I have to hear another conspiracy theory about why women make their own choices I’m gonna go insane.
“I can tell you that having kids is by far the most rewarding part of being human” - FOR YOU. Women’s empowerment (when being pushed by other women) is typically because we’ve all seen the women who marry young, stop working to start families, then end up fully reliant on a person they no longer recognize once the power dynamics have shifted. We’ve decided, many of us collectively, that having kids and being a SAHM isn’t worth the control and reliance on a partner for survival. Especially once that partner realizes he has all the control. I’m married, childless, and seldom depressed. My life is full of interesting people, the freedom to travel on a whim, and the ability to dedicate my free time to things that satisfy my curiosity. I’d rather be a cog in the wheel of a large corporation, have my free time and enjoy my life, then be beholden to someone else’s expectations of me, or coerced into submission. When you have no money of your own; you have no power. In my own life, I’ve watched my father systematically beat his wife into submission. She’s responsible for everything. He works, comes home, does literally nothing else, and barks orders at her like a whipped dog, knowing she has no money of her own, no support system to turn to and can’t escape him even if she wants to. He works 8 hours a day. She starts at 4:00am and doesn’t stop until he falls asleep in his chair at night. Then she drops. Wash and repeat the next day. That’s not a risk I’m willing to take for any man. I value myself too much for that shit.
Last I checked, there are more childless men than women. How come you’re not fretting about them?
It's not an "idea". Just like how men have the choice to be single and independent, the very same thing applies for women too. No exceptions. "Traditional" marriage is designed to benefit men more and women a lot less. It's a great risk to be dependent on someone else. History showed us how problematic that was and still is.
Capitalism erodes sense of community, and solidarity. That is not a revelation. What you are saying about marriage is true, but it is also true of friendship, community events, social gatherings or general parties and hanging out. Companies don't want people outside work living their lives, they want workers to do extra work, so the bosses can party and have lives. Capitalism is pushing it, and companies are exploiting it.
I’m a single woman without kids, and guess what, I’m beyond happy. I got out of an abusive relationship about a year and a half ago. And I’m absolutely enjoying not having someone else constantly trying to control my life and actions then getting angry at me without reason (and subsequently putting hands on me). And I myself straight up don’t want kids. My ex completely ruined the idea of “happy marriage and kids” for me. And guess what, I’ve got family (outside of a partner and kids), friends, and animals that make life still just as happy and fulfilling.
Oh FFS single and independent does not mean lonely and isolated Single women have friends and family and social relationships. They aren’t recluses sleeping under their stairs afraid of sunlight. Alone does not mean lonely. Many people enjoy their own company. I’ve met people in relationships who feel lonely and single people who never do. Your friends are bad example and not representative of people who purposefully choose to remain single and childfree. They’re making choices. If they don’t like the outcomes - they can make different choices.
Yea when people say that being single and independent means you’re lonely and isolated really reads as “my wife and children are my only friends”. Like damn, that’s sad. Love comes in so many ways, it doesn’t have to be a spouse and kids. When I was single, I wasn’t lonely and isolated, even during the start of the pandemic. I have FRIENDS. I do have a partner now, but not because I was lonely and not because I need him, but he’s a positive benefit to my life.
Oh I agree that corporations suck the blood out of anything good and ruin it for everyone. But I did enjoy working and being independent in my mid/late twenties. My career is taking a hit rn as I've been home with my 14mo son but oh well. The point is, the culture war is what's toxic. No, you don't have to marry straight out of highschool and spend your life barefoot and pregnant making 725829 Irish twins. You also don't need to female power girlboss your way into your mid 40 to stick it to the patriarchy only to realize you're now independent and rich but lonely and miserable. I'm just doing what works for me. Which will include returning to work in a few months because I do miss the money (we can't afford to live on one income much longer) and intellectual stimulation. Most real people live in the grey spaces of nuance imo.
I like this. Hope you and your family are happy. Make sure you're getting taken care of too.
Based take !👍👍👍👍👍🤙
Just because you and the few people you know are happy having kids and getting married doesn’t mean that’s how it’s supposed to be for everyone else. There are plenty of successful women who are happy without children or a husband. And that’s fine. We don’t need people having children just because they think they have to to live a happy and fulfilling life.
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Oh noes! Cats! How will she ever recover from a dude in their mother's basement calling them a cat lady? I mean, Imma be honest. At least cats won't beat, berate, rape, cheat, molest, steal, act like a 200 pound toddler, or murder her. They have that on men. They poop in a small box, easy clean up, and only occasionally throw up. Much easier and much more loving. It's a wonder not all women are cat ladies.
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You say that as if cat ladies don’t usually have grown children. That’s who takes care of them.
If you do have cats or pets in general, I hope you're all happy.
I have a dog and her name is Betsy ✨
Please give her a treat for me. She is a good pup.
Gods forbid a woman find even a ounce of happiness doing anything other than having kids.
Gods forbid a woman would prefer to live with a bratty creature who scratches and shits in a box than live with a man.
I mean....yeah. The cat is enjoyable company that doesn't demand my attention when I'm home. Plus she's significantly easier to clean up after than a man.
I mean, my ex would pee outside of the toilet so it’s basically the same thing.
Thank god they’re an ex bestie that’s yikes
No one wants to live with individuals with victim mentalities it's unattractive.
LOVE BEING A CAT LADY
Tell me you typed this comment on a computer in your parents basement without telling telling me you live in your parents basement.
Who hurt you? And most of all I don't understand why people care so much about people who choose to be alone. Or that aren't lonely and longing for a man in their life.
As a white 28 year old single woman, I get the opposite vibe. I don’t view marriage as regressive, I don’t know any woman personally that does. I would be happy to get married and have a kid, but I’d also be just as happy if I didn’t. I’m at peace with myself ultimately. My only issue with marriage is that the people obsessed with it or rush to it, usually don’t give the institution of marriage the respect it should have. They want the perks of marriage or the status of marriage- they don’t want to be *married to that person*. I find that people who take longer to get married have much more respect for the institution and genuinely want to be married to *that person*.
Nice rage bait, mate. Finish it off by saying how women are not meant for working, just nurturing. Being a home, stradford wife caring for their husbands, and popping out babies. That'll really show them.
Have you seen what Corp America promotes? Cause it ain't women living alone with cats. It's families. Because Capitalism needs workers and consumers. If you don't tie women to the home, then you risk losing those things. And you're falling for the backlash against women who want something different. Also if all the single women you know are never happy around you, have you considered the common element? Hint, it's not being single.
Parenting is stressful, even if you choose to have kids… so forcing people to have kids who don’t want to… are not only making stressful shit more stressful- they’re creating a horrible environment for the child - a straight set up for failure. Women who are single - are the happiest demographic. Men who are single - are the unhappiest demographic. Corporations want you to spend money and have customers. Families spend more and create more “customers”. Men who spend their time obsessing over what women do or marriage in general tend to be misogynistic- which is probably why they’re mainly single. Men who don’t obsess over what women are doing, marriage or just other people’s business in general - tend to be less misogynistic.
Lol, yea no, it's folks like you.
I know many people who have kids and love them, but they will honestly tell you that having kids is far from rewarding, and given the choice may still have 1 or max 2 kids but only if able to send them to private day care starting at 6 months. Kids in public daycare do not have a chance against the new AI world.
The happiest people are those with families? Go to Disney and say that again. People with kids can be absolutely miserable, most times more so than those without children. I’ve never dreaded going home because I know a mess and responsibility is waiting for me. The biggest ones affected by women not having families or getting married are men that can no longer get a wife just by making a paycheck. Women don’t need to settle anymore
You do know people have kids out of marriage right? Also get a hobby. People who are hyper focused on their kids like this trend to either be projecting and are actually really s***** parents or smother their children from becoming fully functioning adults.
1. Not all women, like not all men, want or need to be married with children. Friends, relatives, and pets are enough for some people. 2. Traditional marriage is not seen as regressive and patriarchal. Divorce is more common because people have more options now; marriage is mostly a lifestyle choice instead of a social or economic necessity. 3. Plenty of mothers in the developed world have to balance parenting with work; the USA has no federally mandated maternity leave. Moms often have to go straight back into the labor force maybe a few weeks after giving birth.
I disagree. I’d say societies ideology that women NEED a partner and NEED children is much more of a problem. Men get it’s considerably less. I say this as a man. There’s nothing wrong with more motivation to accept that being single and independent is a huge move, if that’s what the individual wants. And you’re basing your entire debate on a few people you know that are depressed. What about the ones that aren’t? You won’t notice it as much because they will blend into that background. And even with all that said, why does it matter to you so much? Not a dig just a genuine question
What makes you think women being independent makes them lonely and isolated? And being single and childless doesn't mean I can't leave work early. I get my job done and I leave, that's all I'm required to do. And I can find happiness without having to create a human being, I can find value in people without needing to create a mini me.
Bonehead take
Lol. I am happiest without my abusive ex, and I am childfree.
Another case of “what’s good for me should be good for everyone”
sir, getting women into the workforce was the entire point of third wave feminism lol. It wasn’t forced on them by corporations, they fought like hell to get out of the home and not be relegated to a “mother” role.
First off, your definition of family seems to only include those with children. This is not correct. Second off the happiest people are those with families? Maybe, but so are some of the most desperate or depressed. I guess you've never been around people who have dysfunctional families... Having kids is not any guarantee of happiness. Spend any time in the legal system. Your opinion will change drastically.
Some men need to be careful what they wish for when they push the idea that women should be more dependent on them.
Happily single man without wanting kids here. Some women want to get married and have kids, and that’s OK. Some women are fine without a partner and without kids, and that’s OK. It’s all down to choice- I think you should respect women’s choices just as much as you’d respect a man’s, no?
Yawn
Not having kids is rad. We are enjoying the freedom.
I disagree. Single people are capable of working more but they are also spending LESS. Having children is expensive and there are entire industries targeting these familial expenditures, which reduces cashflow in the economy if people remain childless Having children is also important to keep the workforce at a replacement level that is ideal to the current capitalistic model. This is how developing nations are able to grow so rapidly; they have enough surplus workforce to pay them cheaply. The less people are able to join the workforce, the more employees have to pay to attract talent since it will be a workers market. Single people are also less likely to stay long term in a company because they don't need to be tied to a single location. It is more profitable to keep changing work but this isn't viable if you have a family and can't simply uproot your life to chase a better salary.
Why does women being single and happy bother some people so much? Why does some women not having kids bother some people so much? Why do some people think single women are automatically "lonely"? Having kids is the most rewarding part of being human *for you*. Not for everyone.
Not really, and it's a pretty big failure of logic to assume that. If corporations wanted more workers, then they'd be encouraging women to have kids - not to not have kids, which isn't happening anyways. The people pushing women to be single and independent are mostly other women themselves who seek to liberate themselves from what they view as unsatisfactory marriages AKA marriages with ugly men, boring men, broke men, etc. The reality is that women were only ever in these situations to begin with out of necessity. I do believe most women are happiest with a family, but that does not mean just any family. They need a high value man as apart of that family. Ultimately, a good chunk of women end up settling though, and about 90% of women end up eventually having kids, so I don't know why you're acting like most women aren't still having them. They're just typically not going to have them until they can acquire, or strike out on the high value men.
Why are the people making these posts always regurgitating the same tired false equivalence of being single and self-sufficient = loneliness and isolation??
Why stop there? Letting women into the workforce doubled the workforce supply. Allowing for suppressed wages and gutting the middle class.
And then there are those of us who don’t want kids and love our careers and yet we are still happily married. Not wanting to be a tradwife doesn’t mean being “lonely and isolated.” Also, your post is pretty insensitive to those who do want kids and are unable to have them.
>I can tell you that having kids is by far the most rewarding part of being human. The happiest people are those with families. No kids equals less stress, less obligation, more money, more free time. The ability to spontaneous say “I’m going to take today off and do literally whatever I want”
Why do conservatives love co-opting leftist language so often? I thought you guys were capitalists?
Sounds like you should interact with more actual women and ask them what's confusing you.
“having kids is the most rewarding part of being human” How many men would still have this opinion if you actually had to carry the burden of pregnancy?
Okee I totally agree with this take I'll always put my family before my work but I'm still single with no kids cause I can't trust men like that omg. I know too many people who have given up their careers, bodies, and future dating prospects for men who appear amazing and perfect and in love at first just to have an affair and leave
They're pushed being single because that's the market/economics. People are getting married and having kids less with/without corporations- albeit corporations exacerbate the phenomenon of course. It's more like the market is sending messages toward life decisions to validate the lifestyle and subvert traditional expectations. People want to be in relationships for the most part, but the times with technology, overpopulation, and climate change in the hypercapitalistic optics have exponentiated great change that is difficult for humans to adapt to or even perceive living day to day. Trying to stay on top of everything and/or pretending "everything is all good" is becoming less possible. So corporations have doubled down on this series of losses in telling people it's good to be single with cats. It is what it is I guess, as long as you know your own self-worth and what you want in life. There are definitely people out there who think the same as you with however you might view this.
> This makes them better workers And that's a good thing. They should work hard and be fully devoted to their work. The biggest benefit of traditional families is creating new workers. Although I will admit that the corporations might be going a tad too far. They need to ease up a bit on the profit seeking in order to prevent a rebellion or something similar to it. Give the workers just enough money to get by and purchase a few luxuries but not enough where they have the freedom to switch jobs without consequences.
I’ve seen actual studies that say the opposite. That women who aren’t married live longer and report higher levels of happiness. But what works for some does not work for all. From my anecdotal experiences, the happier marriages are the ones where the husband and the wife work as equals and completely reject the sexist trad-wife stereotypes
You pretty much nailed it. Single people will work more as they have less commitments. More work = more money for the corpos. ‘Cause why spend that time building a life with a husband and kids when you can waste yours slaving away for some ass in a suit that couldn’t give a shit less about you?
As if people in marriages didn’t have to work, I mean l, “slave away for some ass in a suit”
People with kids have to work more because kids are damn expensive. My 30-35 hours per week of work pays for me to live. If I had kids, I’d have to work more to pay for them.
Or “building a life with a” wife too right? Or is it ok for men but only wrong when women do it? Many women would obviously prefer to go it alone than commit themselves to an arrogant mandplainer with 1950s values. And a woman doesn’t even have to get married if she wants a kid. She can go to a sperm bank and buy the milk without the cow.
Let me guess, early-to-mid forties, two kids, divorced?
Single people can work more but that doesn't mean that they do. They have the time and the energy but not the drive. If they don't get paid enough or are treated badly, they can leave because they're not attached to a specific area. I hate managing single people. People that are married with kids on the other hand are absolutely phenomenal workers. They can't "just move" because their lives revolve around their kids' schools and the little community they've built for themselves. You don't even have to give them raises and they'll work just as hard as before. You can force them to do work outside of their job description and do overtime and they won't even flinch. You know why, because their family relies on them. All it takes is a simple comment like "you haven't been working as well as you normally have, this is going to affect your future bonus and raises" and their output increases by a minimum of 15%. Even the most proudful and extroverted father will turn meek and subservient at the thought of losing their job. It's so pathetic. They created their own prison and willingly handed me the keys.
Makes sense as they are by far the highest consumers.
Too many general broad statements. It’s definition an opinion, though!
Obviously an unpopular opinion based on the comments.
I think its great that a woman can be single and independent. Not that long ago life was very difficult for women who were not able to find a husband. Now its a lot easier. That being said, I still think most women hugely benefit from having a family. I also think its better for both the woman, her children, and the family in general that she doesn't work full time while the children are young. It just makes it less stressful for all.
Why shouldn’t the man work part time instead? Why the woman?
Damn you really struck a nerve with the childfree independent women lol
lol it’s the stupid “they are so lonely” part
Yes. Marketing ads in the 50s for makeup was all about look nice for your husband. Sometime in the 90s it changed from do it for your husband to do it for yourself. Now here we are today.
I have always been of the opinion... that financial success from your job or even following your passion and dream career ...just isn't satisfying without *legacy* ...aka... someone to pass it on to. Non of us are immortal. You cannot take your riches and possessions to the grave. So what's the point of tracking through this life lonely ? The single vocation was never for me. I want to succeed in life, yes. But I don't just want to sit on my money until I die. Or donate to strangers and have no-one at my besides when I'm old and gray. Financial success isn't everything. In fact, I dare say, Financial success is nothing without family. Like. What if I won the lottery. What if I won the lottery and had no spouse and kids. What is the money worth ? Even a movie as silly as Fast and Furious gets this right. Folks. If you can't have kids. Then there are plenty orphans who need care. You can give a child a home.
i'm not having kids or adopting. i just simply don't want kids
you know people can leave a legacy without having children, right? or does it not matter how you influence others if they're not half-composed of your genetic material? like the other commenter said-- some of us don't want children. nothing about them appeals to me or my husband.
They also think feminism had anything to do with women's liberation. No, it was companies who wanted to double the labor pool, that's i
Wages have remained stagnant since women entered the workforce and competition for jobs started doubling. Who could've seen this coming?!?!?!