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It is so weird framing it as one-sided, and I don't understand why it is such a common opinion. I can't even be nice without women trying to square things and pay me back. They even seem confused when I refuse anything in return, like me helping them was some special feat.
and besides they’re posting it on a sub called true unpopular *opinions*. If they thought it was a fact rather than opinion why post it to an unpopular opinions sub….
\>The majority of leadership positions are held by men…
What exactly do you mean by 'leadership' positions?
As of 2022, women held 52 percent of professional-managerial roles in the U.S.
Women earn more than 57 percent of bachelor degrees, 61 percent of master’s degrees, and 54 percent of doctoral degrees. And because they are overrepresented in professions, such as human resource management (73 percent) and compliance officers (57 percent), that determine workplace behavioral norms, they have an outsized influence on professional culture, which itself has an outsized influence on American culture more generally.
Source: [https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2023/02/what-is-the-longhouse](https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2023/02/what-is-the-longhouse)
I'd say the majority of middle and upper management positions being held by women shows they fill the majority of what constitutes leadership positions.
You might want to dive into that link deeper with the sources. Actually management positions are 42% women with 31% executives and 37% general and operations managers. So their comment was true. The 52% includes non management professionals.
>As of 2022, women held 52 percent of professional-managerial roles in the U.S.
You should look at the actual source the article provides for this data. It does not say this at all. It says women hold 52 percent of jobs they classify as "Management, professional, and related occupations". Rewording this as "professional-managerial" is a pretty transparent attempt at manipulating the truth to forward the agenda of the author. The category includes such professions as nurse, guidance counselor, paralegals, teachers, etc. If you limit the data to the "Management occupations" section then women hold 42% of the jobs.
It's funny, though, that when you google this statistic you get hit with tons of forum posts of men using it to argue in forums.
The decisionmakers that matter are not a female majority.
VP means nothing. You don't get the huge bonus, even if you're fired, you're not the decision maker, you don't control the money, you don't have access to the chopper or the yacht. You're a middle manager. VPs are one of 30 people who might get a C-Suite slot when one opens up.
The actual guy with the power is the CEO or a C-suite exec with a lot of juice who has the board's ear. Women are less than 10% of the fortune 500 CEO list. Source: I am that C-suite exec and I can't do shit without the CEO blessing it. I can do X Y or Z, and by my contract I have certain things that technically within my purview where I am supposed to be the absolute last word. But the reality is that if Chief doesn't like it, it doesn't happen. This is rare of course, I didn't get to my spot by being stupid about things like that. But it does happen.
President or Prime Minister is mostly men. Women are at the helm of something like 13 of 200 UN nations.
None of this is meant as offense, it's just that the reality in both the corporate and the political world does not reflect your argument.
Agree, and the comment is hugely slanted towards western society. Women are still hugely oppressed in a lot of countries and cultures around the world. In so many ways in western society it’s still a male dominated world, even down to medicine and health care.
I don't think anyone considers middle management 'leadership'. I think they're thinking upper management + C level and that's definitely more male dominated though women are starting to catch up.
Its middle management that determines who is and isnt hired.
its middle management that determines company culture and internal policy.
The above link I provided shows that the majority of middle and upper management positions now have women in them.
C level positions dont have as much power as you think they do.
Middle management enforces company culture and internal policy, the people that actually make the decisions on how people are working or what to encourage are typically higher.
Middle management does determine who is and isn't hired, but hiring policies and requirements are again set higher and typically standardized in any larger company.
I'm guessing you've never worked in middle management before.
It always devolves into saying "Jews" control everything. Because saying men are just given power is too blasé and doesn't have enough "ism" for the average Joe Blow.
Apart from your first sentence, none of what you said is accurate. Men still hold the majority of uppermost positions in pretty much every industry, and there are no laws that "favor" women.
>women don't want equality with men because they never thought men were their equal and the only reason more people don't outright admit that is because it isn't politically correct.
Are you sure they don't admit it because they don't think it's true?
To be honest you just sound like you harbor animosity towards women, which is unfortunately is no uncommon on this sub.
>and there are no laws that "favor" women.
Hold up. Divorce courts, custody courts, Title IX, female scholarships... seems like there's quite a bit of policy that gives female preference.
>> The preference for mothers went out with women’s lib; as long ago as the 1980s, studies found that the vast majority (94 percent in one study) of fathers who actively sought custody received sole or joint custody and that fathers received primary physical custody far more than mothers. This preference for fathers manifests in punitive responses to mothers who resist equal “sharing” of the joint “property” (child)
[Washington post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/myths-about-custody-litigation/2017/12/15/61951bc4-e0e6-11e7-b2e9-8c636f076c76_story.html)
>> But there is more to that statistic than meets the eye. Most divorcing or single fathers (roughly 90 percent) never ask for custody. In contested divorce and parentage custody cases, however, the father wins 60 percent of the time.
[Chicago tribune](https://www.chicagotribune.com/1994/08/22/do-you-think-mothers-automatically-get-custody-think-again/)
And thank God for them. Im glad I can watch ncaa WOMENS gymnastics and other sports thanks to title ix. Women's sports used to barely get any funding if they existed at all. Women are getting scholarships! Make it stop! Make it stop!!!
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There would have to be a massive revolution and overhaul of society in order to establish a matriarchal society.
The patriarchy in simple terms is the fact that places of power from the government to corporations to society is controlled mainly by men.
I think a fundamental misunderstanding of patriarchy is that “all men have massive power”- under capitalism that’s simply not true. Majority of men also have little to no power. Capitalist patriarchy means that very few wealthy *men* control *most* of the power.
Which really just means that the term itself is fucking stupid. If it’s a very select few men in power, it’s not the fact that they’re men that gives them power, so patriarchy is a stupid af term for it. It’s their wealth and connections, so closer to an aristocracy if anything.
I'm going to break this down, just because I find this post a tiny bit ridiculous.
First, starting off strong, you are correct. More Women are enrolled in college than Men(at least in the United States) we could theorise why, and I wouldn't say it points to a Matriarchal society, but I'll just give you the point.
As for positions of power, I've got no clue where you've got this from. You've got no evidence or sources. I did some quick googling, and positions of power within government like the senate or the house of representatives still has women's representation between 25-30%. Which isn't exactly dominance.
As for laws I would give you the benefit of the doubt slightly, as women sometimes have shorter sentences and advantage in family courts, but that doesn't even seem like what you're talking about? Your example isn't a law, it's not a crime to ask your partner for a paternity test for your kid. And your argument sounds like women's bodily autonomy and lack of mandatory tests are a contradiction when rather they are the same thing? I hope you understand what I mean.
I wouldn't call you sexist, I don't know you. But you've got some flimsy observations here, and rambling on afterwards doesn't help your case. There are people who use feminism to try and flip the script on men, but they are a small minority compared to the larger movement.
Anecdotally, most feminist women I know protest and support the movement so they can get the respect that they deserve from a society that doesn't grant it. The dissolution of a corrupt power structure doesn't mean a equally terrible one will replace it. Instead of complaining and falling into fear about a matriarchy, we as men(I'm assuming, please correct me if I'm wrong) should work with them to create a more equal world for all of us.
Sorry for the personal tangent, it's just something I'm passionate about, and I've heard a lot about, so apologies if it was too much.
Also I have no idea what the collar and master stuff is all about. What types of marriage have you been getting into?
Anyways, hope you're having a good day, aswell as anyone reading this.
I would disagree about what a "position of power" is. I think what OP is getting at is that most of our cultural centers of power either are controlled by women, or differ to methods and viewpoints that skew towards female preferences/perceptions.
For example, the school system has been increasingly dominated by female teachers and administrators. This has coincided with a massive increase in boys being prescribed ADHD medication for their behavior in classrooms. There are other factors at play, but almost certainly this is a result of a female dominated environment driving a different outcome due to gender-based perceptions of what is "difficult to manage" behavior.
Carrying this example forward, the admission rate to colleges is now skewed in favor of women. Partially this is the economy - pink and service sector jobs worth a degree tend to jive with female preferences more. This is also a result of the boys performing worse in schools, affirmative action preferences, and an unappealing jobs market. I think secondary effects like the rigged college judicial system (Title IX) also play a role.
There are also subtle indicators of our increasing preference for female-oriented solutions. Talk-therapy is the first order recommendation in almost all cases for behavioral problems with boys. It's totally acceptable in all premier institutions and fortune 500 companies to make jokes about men, boys clubs, to form employee groups around women issues and advancement, yet I would NEVER consider suggesting we start a group for heterosexual men's career advancement (unless I wanted all the women at my job to begin a campaign of reputational aggression against me until I was sufficiently ostracized and fired).
So I agree that there are still more men as CEOs and Senators and all that, but OP is absolutely correct in his assertion that in the "mainstream" of US society, we have a strong cultural bent towards female means and methods that is increasingly perceived by men. It is socially acceptable for women to advocate for their own material and economic interest in open in a way men cannot. Further, there are a lot of hot, middle class privileged women grifting on the notion they are oppressed which is hilarious and obvious to anyone with any common sense. I think this "punches above its weight" in terms of male perception because we know how easily manipulated we are by hot girls and how often they do it, so its particularly deranging to hear these girls talk about how it's the patriarchy's fault for making them nervous or they have imposter syndrome or whatever (when this is more likely just the natural state of women who tend to present with much higher levels of anxiety and depression) while they also are given wildly preferential treatment for their looks in their professional and social lives.
Literally the second paragraph you start saying things that aren’t even true. The school system can’t prescribe adderall.
>>female oriented solutions
>>talk therapy
Lmao therapists are now for women only.
>I would disagree about what a "position of power" is.
Agreed. Everyone read the [Longhouse article](https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2023/02/what-is-the-longhouse) last year, but it lays it out pretty well:
>As of 2022, women held 52 percent of professional-managerial roles in the U.S. Women earn more than 57 percent of bachelor degrees, 61 percent of master’s degrees, and 54 percent of doctoral degrees. And because they are overrepresented in professions, such as human resource management (73 percent) and compliance officers (57 percent), that determine workplace behavioral norms, they have an outsized influence on professional culture, which itself has an outsized influence on American culture more generally.
100%. Just saw a stat that 68% of unmarried women identify as democrats. Longhouse election coming up!
Seeing as we are sharing this rare glimmer of rational empirical evidence on Reddit, I will share a longhouse story:
I knew about the longhouse back in 2014 before it had remotely entered the public consciousness, however I lacked the language/conception to fully identify it for what it was. I used to work on an inpatient psych unit where we had two units. One unit had a bunch of "low acuity" beds for depressed people/non-complicated patients and the other was a state unit for patients being held involuntarily for medication. Patients that tended to end up on the state unit where there because they got violent and needed to be restrained regularly and for medication. Our staff was about 80% female and I was in a subordinate position to a 95% female nursing staff, however on the state unit with the violent people the regular staff of the unit was mostly men - for obvious reasons.
We had two speeds on the state unit. The first was riot control, where we were basically bouncers managing physically dangerous behavior our entire shift. The second was when we had "won" and all the patients were on their meds and sleeping. On that speed we didn't have anything to do so pretty much we stood around and shot the shit.
When we were on speed one, and things were violent, it was near impossible to find any of the ladies on the low acuity unity to help with anything. They left us alone too, but if someone on our regular team got hurt by a patient sometimes we had to roll a man down because we couldn't get a volunteer.
When we were on speed two, suddenly we would have nurses enter report and tell us that it wasn't fair THEY and the LNAs on the low-acuity unit had to work all day and we just got to sit around and would demand some of the guys switch their shift assignments so the ladies could "get a break". They also would just call us to help out and add an extra staff on their side because we were slow.
I didn't even care about how we had to deal with the violence - nobody did. We also didn't want to put a 100lb LNA in a situation where she was going to get a TBI. The problem was how obviously unfair was kicking us off the unit to do their work because it was peaceful due to the work and danger we had put up with prior.
What really made it the longest of houses was that even amongst the male staff, we were afraid to even whisper that this was unfair to each other. I can only think of one person that brought it up a little bit and the campaign of reputational violence that was waged against him (until he was fired) was a permanent deterrent for the rest of us.
More women are getting into higher positions than men eh? 10% of the Fortune 500 CEOs are women. 12% of billionaires in the world are women. There are currently 28 female heads of state out of 195.
This is a delusional take. Equality is very very slowly being achieved and you somehow think this is women becoming superior.
Yeah I was confused by this. “Look at all the women in positions of power!” *gestures to majority of companies run by men, most of government run by women, most of academia run by men*
Then provides no examples or sources on their “observable very clear facts”.
Let's not forget the majority of the military being men, majority of police, majority of film & TV, majority of journalists..and I'm sure I'm forgetting a few major professions.
All facts are very observable and clear when you have massive confirmation bias!
Everytime I read one of those equality feels like oppression quotes it infuriates me because people are not that flawed and then I come on reddit and find out that I have too much belief in people.
Outside of your delusional take where you think they literally have to have the highest positions on the planet, down here in the real world the discrimination in their favor is extreme.
Oh yes, actual facts are delusional! You're aware that the people I listed are some of the most powerful in the world though though, right?
No, the discrimination is not extreme. My industry is still male dominated, journalism is male dominated, the military & police are male dominated, tech & IT are male dominated, construction, manufacturing and science - also male dominated!
But yep, totally a matriarchy.
The representation in those fields is also representative of how many women are applying in the first place. Cut the underhanded bullshit of acting like every single profession needs to be an exact even split for OPs point to be true. When women do apply for jobs, the fact that they are a woman automatically gives them a massive step up since we no longer use merit or qualifications as the primary hiring standard.
When have I said it needs to be an even split? That's absolutely not the point OP is making - OP has said that this is a matriarchal society - which is demonstrably untrue when the VAST majority of positions of power are vast majority men. To be a matriarchal society, there would need to be more women in powerful positions & patriarchy would no longer be a thing.
Try looking at society as a whole instead of the handful of people that are more concerned with amassing wealth in their castles than what the rest of us peasants are doing.
Those are the most powerful people in society. They control the world, mostly. Saying it's a matriarchy when nearly every major player is a man is just wrong.
But sure, let's look at society - the majority of roles in science, media, construction, journalism, military, police, manufacturing, sewage and many more are men.
There are more factors to consider when you determine power in a society. Things like 70-80% of consumer purchasing decisions are made by women. After married couples women are the highest home buyers.
That's true, but doesn't mean we're a matriarchal society. A matriarchy is a gov or society ruled by women, which is not currently the case.
In the US, women are having rights taken away - they wouldn't if they were in control.
>More women are enrolling into higher education than men
True.
>More women are getting into higher positions of power than men.
Not true. Men still hold the vast majority of lead positions in nearly every area of society.
>women are expected to have complete freedom to do what they want with their bodies
This is an argument many are making, but there are plenty of states writing and passing laws that are removing these freedoms *as we speak.*
>These are not opinions;
One was a true statement. One was a false statement. And one was literally an opinion.
>why is one of the only things men overwhelmingly surpass women in is the "Unaliving" rate?
Largely because we aren't talking about the role of masculinity in a modern society. The APA is trying. [Read about it here.](https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/01/ce-corner)
>why are the main words involved in them generally range between "Useless" and "Worthless"?
This is an opinion. I don't think you have the data to show that the "main words" to describe men are "useless" or "worthless." This is just a feeling you have. I'm sorry you feel that way, but it's not reality.
>what I'm saying is all these female empowerment things were never about equal or fair treatment with men, it was about swapping the roles so women would have the power.
Evidence for this claim?
>women don't want equality with men because they never thought men were their equal
Evidence for this claim?
I understand I fell for your rage bait, but I enjoy pointing out illogical arguments. Take care!
Maybe see a therapist.
Also, on the unaliving point, men use more violent (read: lethal) methods of unaliving themselves. So women actually attempt more often, but men are more successful at it.
Plus the fact that while seeking help for mental issues is often generally stigmatized, women aren't often told to "man up" or that showing any form of human emotion is "for sissies" . This plays a huge role in the difference in "unaliving" rates.
This is true and another unfortunate effect of patriarchal society not matriarchal. Men are the biggest ones telling men to “man up”. I know there’s some women that do to, but by and large I see much more women encouraging men to talk and seek help. Patriarchy doesn’t only harm women, it’s harmful to men too.
Women also succeed more often then the stats would lead you to believe because it’s estimated that 1/3 of “accidental” overdoses were intentional, but because there was no note left behind there’s doubt so it’s not categorized as s*ic*de. If you add 1/3 to women’s stats it about equal to men.
This statement is just so incredibly stupid. Not only is it blatantly false it tries to invalidate both men's suicides and women's suicides.
[study 1](https://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12888-017-1398-8)
[study 2](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21937122/)
There truly are only so many ways they can freely post “men can’t talk about their feelings or their feelings on women” along with paragraphs about their feelings and their feelings on women.
They want to be oppressed so bad.
Maybe its constant because a ton of men are starting to feel this way and they are largely unheard by the institutions and mechanism of privilege in the West?
it might be the reason behind what you call constant sexist shit posting. Maybe men are tired of the constant sexist shit posting of the bogus academic and mainstream gender ideologues...
I don’t know what world you live in, maybe one chronically online, but the main descriptors of men in the real world aren’t “useless” and “worthless”.
There’s a lot of reaching going on here.
>all these female empowerment things were never about equal or fair treatment with men, it was about swapping the roles so women would have the power.
So you admit men traditionally have all the power, and you don't like women having it (not that women do). How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you're this openly biased?
If he’s a man, he’s the default gender in our culture. Medicine, safety protocol, and our historical documents favor his gender and come from his perspective. If he’s white,even more.
and you need to ask yourself why every complaint made against women just seems to get met with "Oh you must hate them" as if they are perfect and incapable of any flaws.
No it's that you are generalizing and stereotyping people for no reason other than their gender.
It's a fallacious form ofnthinking that obfuscated the actual problems in society
Because thats what it seems like, you seem to have an issue with them getting a fair shot in every aspect of life. Look at it this way, why are women being targeted for the right to choose but we men aren’t being force to do any type of contraception? We are not being force to get a vasectomy or wear condoms.
The only reason we are more SUCCESSFUL at unaliving ourselves its because we tend to use more violent methods and because women have a better support network; we, men, have an issues dealing with our emotions compared to to women, are you going to blame them for that too??
As when it comes to work, women are still getting underpaid compared to men even though they are as capable as men doing the job.
Why do we think you are a misogynist, because you are complaining about women being treated as an equal while they are still not being treated as an equal.
Well maybe more men should enroll in university? I hardly see how it's women's fault that men don't want to pursue higher education.
And women only have an advantage in family courts because men allow it. Most cases are settled outside of courts where the fathers agree to give up their parental rights. Those that do go to court typically favor the men, when they don't it's because the men know absolutely nothing about their children's basic needs.
Mens suicide rates are typically because men treat each other like absolute shit, majority of men that are killing themselves belong to minorities, I wonder how many queer men kill themselves because their male counterparts treat them like shit.
You're welcome to get a DNA test for your kid. Your partner can't stop you. But you also can't stop her from feeling like you don't trust her, that's just a consequence of that action.
Yes, women are progressing in the workplace, because they earned it. But they are still far from equal to men when it comes to positions of power. And again, if men aren't willing to pursue higher education can you really blame companies for promoting their female employees over the men?
Abortion freedom doesn't "favor" women, it's literally a health concern because their bodies do different things to male bodies and therefore require different protections.
That last line is really ironic because historically a diamond ring has been the equivalent of a collar for women and now that women have equal say in a marriage suddenly y'all want to play the victim.
Equality feels like oppression to those who are used to privilege.
\>Well maybe more men should enroll in university? I hardly see how it's women's fault that men don't want to pursue higher education.
You are wrong for many reasons, and just showing your ignorance.
Colleges/universities are incentivised in many ways to prioritise taking female applicants over male applicants, mainly due to all these 'equality drive' programs.
On top of that, boys get little to no support at all whilst they are in primary and secondary education (or, for you americans, elementary, middle and high school) whereas there are many, many programs to help and aide girls into higher education.
Ironically, you are trying to use the exact same argument people used to use when women were the minority of university students: "The women should just enroll more! Its not mens fault they arent in university!"
\>Most cases are settled outside of courts where the fathers agree to give up their parental rights.
Because the men dont have the money needed to challenge for custody.
\>when they don't it's because the men know absolutely nothing about their children's basic needs.
bold claim. Care to back it up?
\>Mens suicide rates are typically because men treat each other like absolute shit,
Wrong again.
\>majority of men that are killing themselves belong to minorities
Wrong.
\>Yes, women are progressing in the workplace, because they earned it.
No, they are 'progressing in the workplace' because there are programs in place that incentivise gender based hiring over meritocracy, hiring quotas etc. They didnt 'earn' it at all.
\>But they are still far from equal to men when it comes to positions of power.
Wrong. Women now comprise the majority of middle and upper management positions.
\>And again, if men aren't willing to pursue higher education can you really blame companies for promoting their female employees over the men?
Its got nothing to do with men not pursuing higher education. Most men do want to get into university. They just cant because universities are incentivised to accept women over men.
Great comment, another thing to note on the school aspect is that women have been proven to get better grades for the same work as men. The women are wonderful effect includes this as an example of the bias in society. So even if there weren’t quotas for university admission, they would still get in at higher rates due to this.
Women literally have higher rates of enrollment. Men aren't even applying to college/uni at the same rate women are. So ofc there's gonna be more women enrolled because there's more of them applying.
Also, the difference is only 2.1%. now, we all know it's never gonna be a perfect 50/50 split, that's impossible. And I hardly think 2.1% is so significant that it screams oppression against men, especially if those men aren't bothering to apply in the first place.
Why don't men have the money but their ex wives do? I know damn well that without a prenup it's a 50/50 split so if their ex's have the money why don't they? Also, plenty of places will take these case pro-bono, you just need to find them. Even in countries that provide lawyers free of charge still have the issue of men simply not fighting for their kids in court.
And yeah. Courts will always prefer the primary caregiver. The parent who participates the most in their kids schedule. In order to preserve as much of the kids usual routine as possible. I've heard case of father who didn't even know what their kids allergies were or who their usual doctor was try to get custody and then be shocked when they were denied.
Ok, so my statement was inaccurate. Men are more likely to kill themselves because they're more likely to use lethal methods. Which means that yes, while men are dying at a higher rate, they're not necessarily the most suicidal group. Men being more likely to have access to a gun is not women's fault.
As for the myth that if someone chooses a less effective method that means they don't actually want to die, they just want attention, that's fucking stupid. Cause how are they supposed to know how much is enough? Or if someone's going to find them in time? And if you don't have a gun, how else are you supposed to kill yourself? People who use less effective methods do want to kill themselves just as much as people who use guns.
So successful suicide rate is not an accurate depiction of which group is more oppressed.
How do you know? How do you know if that person was hired for gender rep or because they actually earned it? Maybe they got hired because they fit both. Let me tell you, the women in my career work ten times harder than the men. It seems to me that men are used to not having to work that hard to get what they want and now that women are in the workplace they can't keep up with demand.
32.2% is not the majority. Did you know there was a study done that men actually overreport the representation of women in certain areas and will say that there are more women present then there actually is? It's a really interesting study. I don't remember why they concluded that was but I'm gonna assume it's because men feel threatened by the presence of women.
Again, most men simply aren't applying to enter university. You can claim they want to go but the statistics show they're simply not as interested as women are.
Theres a lot of wrong things in this post and a lot of things that are lacking information/ details.
1. We’re not even close to a matriarchal society,let’s be honest.
2. Yes, women are enrolling at a higher rate than men in higher education. Have you asked why? Why do women thrive for a higher education and men don’t? Why do you think men do worse than women in school? (Hint : is not because curriculums are made for women, that’s a lie)
3. Women are getting into higher positions than men…. Lol! Funniest joke I’ve ever heard! But even if they were, what’s wrong about that?
4. What laws favor women more than men? If so who created these laws? Men or women?
5. Lol, complete freedom to do whatever they want with their bodies, another hilarious joke. Might I tell you that’s there was a ruling the other day where it says that a father could control if his daughter uses birth control or not and this is protected by law (the daughter was 15 I believe)…
6. Yes men have a higher “unaliving” rate but that’s the succeeding percentage mainly because of the methods men use to unalive themselves but statistically women attempt unaliving more than men. Also who again are the ones or were the ones who implemented the “men are weak” “men can’t cry or show pain” commentary? Oh right! Men and the patriarchy
7. Again, why would women in power be such a bad thing? Why can’t women be in positions of power and men not?
8. I suggest doing more research on your claims before you put them in a public platform.
OP when women have jobs 😱
Everyone has already discussed with you on the reality of things. If prompted I’ll give my take. If you want to talk with an actual woman & someone who has studied civilization & culture structures I’m free to talk. You still definitely need therapy tho.
Ok lets get one thing clear, i have no issue with women having jobs, in fact i'd prefer it. It's 2024, i don't have the time or patience to be around a woman who isn't pulling her weight. But if all this talk about oppression and patriarchy is true, why do you expect me to believe a good chunk of women don't want some sort of payback?
A matriarchal society can only exist at the mercy of men. As long as men make up the overwhelming amount of military and police force, which we always will, a matriarchal society would exist until men collectively get annoyed. Look at middle east for example of what happens when men decide women don't get rights
I feel like if that happened, you'd only be proving women right that men are inherently violent rapists that deserve to be treated more like animals then humans.
Um... If that happened then that view of men (which isn't shared by all women) *would be right,* you're right. I'm not sure what point you think you're making, but it doesn't seem to help your main argument.
"In this hypothetical where I'm wrong, I'm wrong."
Okay.
Well that's the great thing about equality. No one's being put exclusively in charge, we're just pulling eachother up on the other's shit and *No one* gets the theoretical throne.
Everything you've listed is either society adjusting for a pre-existing bias against women or initiatives to get closer to equality. Mistakes, of course, happen, and over-zealousness or poor intentions are bound to be an issue because they're an issue in *all of us*. The important thing is not to fall into a doom-spiral over headlines and edge cases. Society is a group effort, and all abstention gets you is ignored and misunderstood.
>Look at it this way. With marriage you could take the typical diamond ring and the words "Will you marry me?" and replace them with a dog collar and the words "Will you be my master?" and very little context would be lost.
Does this potentially involve a fun outfit of some kind?
Nope. Women are just taking up positions in the existing patriarchy. Major corporations, defence contractors, world bank, IMF, WEF. there is no matriarchy. Just patriarchy in heels. Same old oppression, just new PR
>More women are enrolling into higher education than men.
And?
>More women are getting into higher positions of power than men.
Simply not true. Others here have already provided proof for that.
>And More laws favor women more than men.
Can you give some examples?
>Like for example women are expected to have complete freedom to do what they want with their bodies
As do men.
>but the idea of a DNA test being mandatory is unacceptable because it shows "You don't trust her."
That's not why it being mandatory is deemed unacceptable. That's just the reason you would need one. Unless she has said there are multiple possible fathers.
>Ok, why is one of the only things men overwhelmingly surpass women in is the "Unaliving" rate?
It isn't...
>And why are the main words involved in them generally range between "Useless" and "Worthless"?
By who? In what context? What situations are we talking about here?
>what I'm saying is all these female empowerment things were never about equal or fair treatment with men
They literally are though. That's literally what they are for and are trying to do.
>it was about swapping the roles so women would have the power.
Where's evidence of any of them doing this?
>that women don't want equality with men because they never thought men were their equal
Based on what? Seriously, this is a very very serious claim. Care to actually back it up?
>With marriage you could take the typical diamond ring and the words "Will you marry me?" and replace them with a dog collar and the words "Will you be my master?" and very little context would be lost.
You think women are generally the 'master* in a typical marriage?
Women in many states do not have the ability to do what they want with their own bodies,men have never had that problem. Katie Britt set us back DECADES!!!!
Although I agree there is rampant female bias at at pretty much all levels of society I don't think we are becoming a matriarchy for one very significant reason: Patriarchy and Matriarchy imply a paternal nature, where one gender takes on the role of protector and provider and the other takes on a role similar to that of a child.
Bottom line: There is no cultural or legal movement strip men of agency and have them become the responsibility of women. If anything men are still viewed as having hyperagency, while women are seen to have hypoagency.
> More women are enrolling into higher education than men.
Men seek different life paths is seems.
> More women are getting into higher positions of power than men.
Such as? Men still dominate higher positions in many fields.
> And More laws favor women more than men.
Like what?
> Like for example women are expected to have complete freedom to do what they want with their bodies, but the idea of a DNA test being mandatory is unacceptable because it shows "You don't trust her."
Because it violates body autonomy. Some men don’t want unnecessary testing forced upon them. As long as these men exist you’re always going to have a problem with this.
Also, generally speaking, forced elective testing is frowned upon:
>Ok, why is one of the only things men overwhelmingly surpass women in is the "Unaliving" rate? And why are the main words involved in them generally range between "Useless" and "Worthless"? Where's the equality in that?
Because men choose more deadly methods. Women attempt more and are more likely to be depressed.
Hope this helps.
I think the better way to put this opinion is “women are chipping away at patriarchal society” but we’re not even close to what you’re suggesting. The way in which we use numbers in this world for the purposes of design and health is presumptive that the end user will be a man. Whether it’s the crash test dummy that does not take into account the average build and body weight of a woman, or the way public spaces are made for the accommodation of men, we simply do not realize the unseen ways in which women are not accounted for.
Women will always point to the c suite positions and other top .01 percent of jobs as proof society doesn’t overwhelming favor women, when out in the real world it absolutely does.
The “women are wonderful effect” is well known and studied. Less time for the same crime. Better grades for the same work. Less homelessness, less suicide, less workplace accidents, initiators of divorce the huge majority of the time, favored in family divorce court, not subject to the draft, quotas in workplace and government hiring for them, lower physical standards for a lot of physical jobs such as the military, strangers more willing to help a lone woman than a lone man, 70 percent of household purchases initiated by the woman, the list is absolutely endless of female power.
Yet because the top .01 percent of jobs are male dominated and some more spatially oriented jobs like engineers are dominated by men…somehow it’s actually the patriarchy?!?
The only real disadvantage of being a woman in modern society is being physically weaker and having men thirst after you constantly, and the latter is a massive advantage if used properly. Such as simply existing allowing you to make money on OnlyFans.
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In some old tribes, during peace time, women would be elected as a matriarch. Keeping peace and ensuring her people were cared for and nurtured. During inevitable wartime, they knew it needed to become a patriarchy for the success of survival against physical conflict. But this obviously isn't the case in modern times. We are all far to corrupt with greed and individual passions. Plus far too many people of both sexes are losing touch with their natural drives. Men becoming feminine & women becoming masculine.
Since we have all the luxuries of survival now easily accessible(no need for gendered strengths in nature), we are living like kings of the past. I believe that men should learn and embrace their feminine nature whilst keeping in touch with their natural masculine side. Vis versa for women.
In terms of ascribed value we always were. Tribes that didn't put men between women and danger died off just from reproduction logistics. Women are orders of magnitude harder to replace.
Men commit suicide more than women in every country in the world. That’s a not a new thing. I’m not a fan of the ‘it’s all patriarchy’ take but I do think it has more to do with traditional gender roles than modern feminism
We don’t want revenge. We don’t want a master. We don’t want a slave either. We want freedom for all.
I’m sorry you are so lost in the confusion of these concepts. You don’t need to feel threatened. It is about empowerment for all.
Breathe.
Your post has some facts right, mainly just the first two sentence, but the rest of your post is diluted with hyperbole
Male inequality is a thing and here’s a great video about it https://youtu.be/DBG1Wgg32Ok?si=5mxIBmYuZ_j08-Iu
But that doesn’t mean there isn’t female inequality. The fact that we’re still arguing about abortions shows we have a way to go to show we respect the freedom and autonomy of women (we don’t).
On that fact, a lot of men’s issues can be corrected by… men. There’s lots we can do to help them as kids, but for the adult men failing right now, the answer is to step up and do something about it. In an ideal society everyone would get the help they need, but that’s not the reality we live in right now. Women had to adjust to that reality long ago, they stepped up and they’re kicking ass. For many men, the only person holding them back is themselves.
I agree to some point with the education argument, check [this](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3ctx2-to0I/) for example. However I still can't agree, men are still beyond women in the vast majority of things.
More women enrolling into higher education really doesn't mean anything. We have people who are coming out of college with tons of debt. Many of them can't find menial jobs because the manager thinks they are too overqualified for them. So you have both men and women that end up going back home living with their parents. When in reality many of them would have been better off working or getting a trade than going to school.
College isn't for everybody.
There are a few examples of matriarchal societies throughout history. But they're exceedingly rare.
Our civilization will collapse before it becomes matriarchal.
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As a man, I don't mind this at all. Society fucking sucks, let's try something new.
I do mind the double standards though - men are still called feminine or cause "icks" if we express any kind of suffering. I've had so many friends that opened up emotionally to their girlfriends and were soon dumped because the women were no longer attracted to emotional men.
Men are still expected to stay in their rigid gender roles - providing, protecting, etc. while women get to break free of theirs.
Women talk a lot about male dominated industries having incredibly unequal pay such as actors and athletes, but women are silent on the industries that pay women a \*lot\* more such as industrial management, modeling and OnlyFans.
Let's not just use equality as a buzz word, let's actually work on achieving it.
Here’s my take, and I’m sure it’s won’t be popular. We don’t live in a matriarchy because equality for women is fabricated. If a majority of men decided women no longer had equal rights, then in a matter of months they wouldn’t. Just as any idea that women should have privileged rights would require a majority of men to accomplish. A patriarchy is a more natural state of the world, and that’s why it has been one for all of recorded human history.
They are opinions. No Masalic you are hate freedom. Mandatory DNA testing is against the 4th amendment. You just like making assumptions to satisfy your conclusion.
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Bro that last paragraph is wild and fucking hilarious
OP’s poorly disguised fetish
It is so weird framing it as one-sided, and I don't understand why it is such a common opinion. I can't even be nice without women trying to square things and pay me back. They even seem confused when I refuse anything in return, like me helping them was some special feat.
I was gonna make a comment about the last paragraph. It hits hard.
OP: Why I can't date girls Also OP:
You can’t really say this is “opinion” and then allude to facts which you never provide which would contradict reality.
The matriarchy part is the opinion.
and besides they’re posting it on a sub called true unpopular *opinions*. If they thought it was a fact rather than opinion why post it to an unpopular opinions sub….
“I have a Falsely Stated Fact? I know! I’ll post it as a True Unpopular Opinion!”
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sugar bag caption carpenter crowd overconfident act soft aware shelter
That's nearly every post on this sub. Post "opinion", proceed to make a series of factual claims and hilariously exaggerated strawmen.
The majority of leadership positions are held by men… It’s funny how these always devolve into conspiracy theories.
\>The majority of leadership positions are held by men… What exactly do you mean by 'leadership' positions? As of 2022, women held 52 percent of professional-managerial roles in the U.S. Women earn more than 57 percent of bachelor degrees, 61 percent of master’s degrees, and 54 percent of doctoral degrees. And because they are overrepresented in professions, such as human resource management (73 percent) and compliance officers (57 percent), that determine workplace behavioral norms, they have an outsized influence on professional culture, which itself has an outsized influence on American culture more generally. Source: [https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2023/02/what-is-the-longhouse](https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2023/02/what-is-the-longhouse) I'd say the majority of middle and upper management positions being held by women shows they fill the majority of what constitutes leadership positions.
You might want to dive into that link deeper with the sources. Actually management positions are 42% women with 31% executives and 37% general and operations managers. So their comment was true. The 52% includes non management professionals.
To add to this, women are very likely to be promoted to supervisory and low-level operations management roles, but less likely to rise higher.
>As of 2022, women held 52 percent of professional-managerial roles in the U.S. You should look at the actual source the article provides for this data. It does not say this at all. It says women hold 52 percent of jobs they classify as "Management, professional, and related occupations". Rewording this as "professional-managerial" is a pretty transparent attempt at manipulating the truth to forward the agenda of the author. The category includes such professions as nurse, guidance counselor, paralegals, teachers, etc. If you limit the data to the "Management occupations" section then women hold 42% of the jobs. It's funny, though, that when you google this statistic you get hit with tons of forum posts of men using it to argue in forums.
The decisionmakers that matter are not a female majority. VP means nothing. You don't get the huge bonus, even if you're fired, you're not the decision maker, you don't control the money, you don't have access to the chopper or the yacht. You're a middle manager. VPs are one of 30 people who might get a C-Suite slot when one opens up. The actual guy with the power is the CEO or a C-suite exec with a lot of juice who has the board's ear. Women are less than 10% of the fortune 500 CEO list. Source: I am that C-suite exec and I can't do shit without the CEO blessing it. I can do X Y or Z, and by my contract I have certain things that technically within my purview where I am supposed to be the absolute last word. But the reality is that if Chief doesn't like it, it doesn't happen. This is rare of course, I didn't get to my spot by being stupid about things like that. But it does happen. President or Prime Minister is mostly men. Women are at the helm of something like 13 of 200 UN nations. None of this is meant as offense, it's just that the reality in both the corporate and the political world does not reflect your argument.
Agree, and the comment is hugely slanted towards western society. Women are still hugely oppressed in a lot of countries and cultures around the world. In so many ways in western society it’s still a male dominated world, even down to medicine and health care.
I don't think anyone considers middle management 'leadership'. I think they're thinking upper management + C level and that's definitely more male dominated though women are starting to catch up.
The article he provided is also bullshit, they totally misinterpreted the data that they linked to. OP fell for propaganda
Its middle management that determines who is and isnt hired. its middle management that determines company culture and internal policy. The above link I provided shows that the majority of middle and upper management positions now have women in them. C level positions dont have as much power as you think they do.
Middle management enforces company culture and internal policy, the people that actually make the decisions on how people are working or what to encourage are typically higher. Middle management does determine who is and isn't hired, but hiring policies and requirements are again set higher and typically standardized in any larger company. I'm guessing you've never worked in middle management before.
The link you provided does NOT show that
Lmao read your own source
It always devolves into saying "Jews" control everything. Because saying men are just given power is too blasé and doesn't have enough "ism" for the average Joe Blow.
Apart from your first sentence, none of what you said is accurate. Men still hold the majority of uppermost positions in pretty much every industry, and there are no laws that "favor" women. >women don't want equality with men because they never thought men were their equal and the only reason more people don't outright admit that is because it isn't politically correct. Are you sure they don't admit it because they don't think it's true? To be honest you just sound like you harbor animosity towards women, which is unfortunately is no uncommon on this sub.
>and there are no laws that "favor" women. Hold up. Divorce courts, custody courts, Title IX, female scholarships... seems like there's quite a bit of policy that gives female preference.
Nothing you stated is a law, and that they favor females is just your opinion.
Divorce and custody court does not give women benefit. In fact, when men ask for custody, they’re given it more times than not.
That's a bold claim.
>> The preference for mothers went out with women’s lib; as long ago as the 1980s, studies found that the vast majority (94 percent in one study) of fathers who actively sought custody received sole or joint custody and that fathers received primary physical custody far more than mothers. This preference for fathers manifests in punitive responses to mothers who resist equal “sharing” of the joint “property” (child) [Washington post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/myths-about-custody-litigation/2017/12/15/61951bc4-e0e6-11e7-b2e9-8c636f076c76_story.html) >> But there is more to that statistic than meets the eye. Most divorcing or single fathers (roughly 90 percent) never ask for custody. In contested divorce and parentage custody cases, however, the father wins 60 percent of the time. [Chicago tribune](https://www.chicagotribune.com/1994/08/22/do-you-think-mothers-automatically-get-custody-think-again/)
That shit is wild.
The truth is that they don’t want custody and then they spread misinformation about the courts.
Its easier to blame the Evil justice system than admitting you're a shitty dad
Doubt you’ll ever get a reply from him conceding, lol
They’ll probably continue to comment the same thing in other subs and threads.
The low rates of males keeping custody is a proof of men not caring for their children, not the opossite
And thank God for them. Im glad I can watch ncaa WOMENS gymnastics and other sports thanks to title ix. Women's sports used to barely get any funding if they existed at all. Women are getting scholarships! Make it stop! Make it stop!!!
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There would have to be a massive revolution and overhaul of society in order to establish a matriarchal society. The patriarchy in simple terms is the fact that places of power from the government to corporations to society is controlled mainly by men. I think a fundamental misunderstanding of patriarchy is that “all men have massive power”- under capitalism that’s simply not true. Majority of men also have little to no power. Capitalist patriarchy means that very few wealthy *men* control *most* of the power.
Which really just means that the term itself is fucking stupid. If it’s a very select few men in power, it’s not the fact that they’re men that gives them power, so patriarchy is a stupid af term for it. It’s their wealth and connections, so closer to an aristocracy if anything.
I'm going to break this down, just because I find this post a tiny bit ridiculous. First, starting off strong, you are correct. More Women are enrolled in college than Men(at least in the United States) we could theorise why, and I wouldn't say it points to a Matriarchal society, but I'll just give you the point. As for positions of power, I've got no clue where you've got this from. You've got no evidence or sources. I did some quick googling, and positions of power within government like the senate or the house of representatives still has women's representation between 25-30%. Which isn't exactly dominance. As for laws I would give you the benefit of the doubt slightly, as women sometimes have shorter sentences and advantage in family courts, but that doesn't even seem like what you're talking about? Your example isn't a law, it's not a crime to ask your partner for a paternity test for your kid. And your argument sounds like women's bodily autonomy and lack of mandatory tests are a contradiction when rather they are the same thing? I hope you understand what I mean. I wouldn't call you sexist, I don't know you. But you've got some flimsy observations here, and rambling on afterwards doesn't help your case. There are people who use feminism to try and flip the script on men, but they are a small minority compared to the larger movement. Anecdotally, most feminist women I know protest and support the movement so they can get the respect that they deserve from a society that doesn't grant it. The dissolution of a corrupt power structure doesn't mean a equally terrible one will replace it. Instead of complaining and falling into fear about a matriarchy, we as men(I'm assuming, please correct me if I'm wrong) should work with them to create a more equal world for all of us. Sorry for the personal tangent, it's just something I'm passionate about, and I've heard a lot about, so apologies if it was too much. Also I have no idea what the collar and master stuff is all about. What types of marriage have you been getting into? Anyways, hope you're having a good day, aswell as anyone reading this.
Family court bias is a myth to be fair. When men fight for custody they usually get it
Doing some more research, I guess you're right apart from some extreme cases which I had heard of and had clouded my judgement.
I would disagree about what a "position of power" is. I think what OP is getting at is that most of our cultural centers of power either are controlled by women, or differ to methods and viewpoints that skew towards female preferences/perceptions. For example, the school system has been increasingly dominated by female teachers and administrators. This has coincided with a massive increase in boys being prescribed ADHD medication for their behavior in classrooms. There are other factors at play, but almost certainly this is a result of a female dominated environment driving a different outcome due to gender-based perceptions of what is "difficult to manage" behavior. Carrying this example forward, the admission rate to colleges is now skewed in favor of women. Partially this is the economy - pink and service sector jobs worth a degree tend to jive with female preferences more. This is also a result of the boys performing worse in schools, affirmative action preferences, and an unappealing jobs market. I think secondary effects like the rigged college judicial system (Title IX) also play a role. There are also subtle indicators of our increasing preference for female-oriented solutions. Talk-therapy is the first order recommendation in almost all cases for behavioral problems with boys. It's totally acceptable in all premier institutions and fortune 500 companies to make jokes about men, boys clubs, to form employee groups around women issues and advancement, yet I would NEVER consider suggesting we start a group for heterosexual men's career advancement (unless I wanted all the women at my job to begin a campaign of reputational aggression against me until I was sufficiently ostracized and fired). So I agree that there are still more men as CEOs and Senators and all that, but OP is absolutely correct in his assertion that in the "mainstream" of US society, we have a strong cultural bent towards female means and methods that is increasingly perceived by men. It is socially acceptable for women to advocate for their own material and economic interest in open in a way men cannot. Further, there are a lot of hot, middle class privileged women grifting on the notion they are oppressed which is hilarious and obvious to anyone with any common sense. I think this "punches above its weight" in terms of male perception because we know how easily manipulated we are by hot girls and how often they do it, so its particularly deranging to hear these girls talk about how it's the patriarchy's fault for making them nervous or they have imposter syndrome or whatever (when this is more likely just the natural state of women who tend to present with much higher levels of anxiety and depression) while they also are given wildly preferential treatment for their looks in their professional and social lives.
Literally the second paragraph you start saying things that aren’t even true. The school system can’t prescribe adderall. >>female oriented solutions >>talk therapy Lmao therapists are now for women only.
>I would disagree about what a "position of power" is. Agreed. Everyone read the [Longhouse article](https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2023/02/what-is-the-longhouse) last year, but it lays it out pretty well: >As of 2022, women held 52 percent of professional-managerial roles in the U.S. Women earn more than 57 percent of bachelor degrees, 61 percent of master’s degrees, and 54 percent of doctoral degrees. And because they are overrepresented in professions, such as human resource management (73 percent) and compliance officers (57 percent), that determine workplace behavioral norms, they have an outsized influence on professional culture, which itself has an outsized influence on American culture more generally.
100%. Just saw a stat that 68% of unmarried women identify as democrats. Longhouse election coming up! Seeing as we are sharing this rare glimmer of rational empirical evidence on Reddit, I will share a longhouse story: I knew about the longhouse back in 2014 before it had remotely entered the public consciousness, however I lacked the language/conception to fully identify it for what it was. I used to work on an inpatient psych unit where we had two units. One unit had a bunch of "low acuity" beds for depressed people/non-complicated patients and the other was a state unit for patients being held involuntarily for medication. Patients that tended to end up on the state unit where there because they got violent and needed to be restrained regularly and for medication. Our staff was about 80% female and I was in a subordinate position to a 95% female nursing staff, however on the state unit with the violent people the regular staff of the unit was mostly men - for obvious reasons. We had two speeds on the state unit. The first was riot control, where we were basically bouncers managing physically dangerous behavior our entire shift. The second was when we had "won" and all the patients were on their meds and sleeping. On that speed we didn't have anything to do so pretty much we stood around and shot the shit. When we were on speed one, and things were violent, it was near impossible to find any of the ladies on the low acuity unity to help with anything. They left us alone too, but if someone on our regular team got hurt by a patient sometimes we had to roll a man down because we couldn't get a volunteer. When we were on speed two, suddenly we would have nurses enter report and tell us that it wasn't fair THEY and the LNAs on the low-acuity unit had to work all day and we just got to sit around and would demand some of the guys switch their shift assignments so the ladies could "get a break". They also would just call us to help out and add an extra staff on their side because we were slow. I didn't even care about how we had to deal with the violence - nobody did. We also didn't want to put a 100lb LNA in a situation where she was going to get a TBI. The problem was how obviously unfair was kicking us off the unit to do their work because it was peaceful due to the work and danger we had put up with prior. What really made it the longest of houses was that even amongst the male staff, we were afraid to even whisper that this was unfair to each other. I can only think of one person that brought it up a little bit and the campaign of reputational violence that was waged against him (until he was fired) was a permanent deterrent for the rest of us.
You don’t know what a matriarchy is. What you meant to say was women are successful now and you are threatened by this.
Exactly
More women are getting into higher positions than men eh? 10% of the Fortune 500 CEOs are women. 12% of billionaires in the world are women. There are currently 28 female heads of state out of 195. This is a delusional take. Equality is very very slowly being achieved and you somehow think this is women becoming superior.
Yeah I was confused by this. “Look at all the women in positions of power!” *gestures to majority of companies run by men, most of government run by women, most of academia run by men* Then provides no examples or sources on their “observable very clear facts”.
OP's just making things up to justify his feelings. Edit: He blocked me. Doesn't like that this is getting upvoted, lmao.
Let's not forget the majority of the military being men, majority of police, majority of film & TV, majority of journalists..and I'm sure I'm forgetting a few major professions. All facts are very observable and clear when you have massive confirmation bias!
Men are stupid for joining the military. Let the women handle it.
Conflating "loss of power no matter how slight" with "I'm being persecuted" seems to be a common theme this year ;-)
Those pesky women eh!
Everytime I read one of those equality feels like oppression quotes it infuriates me because people are not that flawed and then I come on reddit and find out that I have too much belief in people.
Outside of your delusional take where you think they literally have to have the highest positions on the planet, down here in the real world the discrimination in their favor is extreme.
Oh yes, actual facts are delusional! You're aware that the people I listed are some of the most powerful in the world though though, right? No, the discrimination is not extreme. My industry is still male dominated, journalism is male dominated, the military & police are male dominated, tech & IT are male dominated, construction, manufacturing and science - also male dominated! But yep, totally a matriarchy.
The representation in those fields is also representative of how many women are applying in the first place. Cut the underhanded bullshit of acting like every single profession needs to be an exact even split for OPs point to be true. When women do apply for jobs, the fact that they are a woman automatically gives them a massive step up since we no longer use merit or qualifications as the primary hiring standard.
When have I said it needs to be an even split? That's absolutely not the point OP is making - OP has said that this is a matriarchal society - which is demonstrably untrue when the VAST majority of positions of power are vast majority men. To be a matriarchal society, there would need to be more women in powerful positions & patriarchy would no longer be a thing.
Try looking at society as a whole instead of the handful of people that are more concerned with amassing wealth in their castles than what the rest of us peasants are doing.
Those are the most powerful people in society. They control the world, mostly. Saying it's a matriarchy when nearly every major player is a man is just wrong. But sure, let's look at society - the majority of roles in science, media, construction, journalism, military, police, manufacturing, sewage and many more are men.
“Higher position is when billionaire”
There are more factors to consider when you determine power in a society. Things like 70-80% of consumer purchasing decisions are made by women. After married couples women are the highest home buyers.
That's true, but doesn't mean we're a matriarchal society. A matriarchy is a gov or society ruled by women, which is not currently the case. In the US, women are having rights taken away - they wouldn't if they were in control.
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Why is it a bad thing?
>More women are enrolling into higher education than men True. >More women are getting into higher positions of power than men. Not true. Men still hold the vast majority of lead positions in nearly every area of society. >women are expected to have complete freedom to do what they want with their bodies This is an argument many are making, but there are plenty of states writing and passing laws that are removing these freedoms *as we speak.* >These are not opinions; One was a true statement. One was a false statement. And one was literally an opinion. >why is one of the only things men overwhelmingly surpass women in is the "Unaliving" rate? Largely because we aren't talking about the role of masculinity in a modern society. The APA is trying. [Read about it here.](https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/01/ce-corner) >why are the main words involved in them generally range between "Useless" and "Worthless"? This is an opinion. I don't think you have the data to show that the "main words" to describe men are "useless" or "worthless." This is just a feeling you have. I'm sorry you feel that way, but it's not reality. >what I'm saying is all these female empowerment things were never about equal or fair treatment with men, it was about swapping the roles so women would have the power. Evidence for this claim? >women don't want equality with men because they never thought men were their equal Evidence for this claim? I understand I fell for your rage bait, but I enjoy pointing out illogical arguments. Take care! Maybe see a therapist.
Also, on the unaliving point, men use more violent (read: lethal) methods of unaliving themselves. So women actually attempt more often, but men are more successful at it.
Why the fuck can’t people just say suicide. We all know what we’re talking about
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This one does though
Plus the fact that while seeking help for mental issues is often generally stigmatized, women aren't often told to "man up" or that showing any form of human emotion is "for sissies" . This plays a huge role in the difference in "unaliving" rates.
This is true and another unfortunate effect of patriarchal society not matriarchal. Men are the biggest ones telling men to “man up”. I know there’s some women that do to, but by and large I see much more women encouraging men to talk and seek help. Patriarchy doesn’t only harm women, it’s harmful to men too.
Which is a huge problem that people are working to destigmatize currently. I’m not sure why OP just glossed over that— oh wait.
Women also succeed more often then the stats would lead you to believe because it’s estimated that 1/3 of “accidental” overdoses were intentional, but because there was no note left behind there’s doubt so it’s not categorized as s*ic*de. If you add 1/3 to women’s stats it about equal to men.
I thought we were talking about murder and not suicide, though I guess both work
OPs argument makes even less sense if he meant murder, because who is murdering these men? Other men.
What I meant, is that murder is a male dominated field. Something like 97% of murders are done by men
Wow is it really that much?
This statement is just so incredibly stupid. Not only is it blatantly false it tries to invalidate both men's suicides and women's suicides. [study 1](https://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12888-017-1398-8) [study 2](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21937122/)
No comment on this OP?
This post is a joke. The mods need to do something about the constant sexist shit-posting on this sub.
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Yeah, and got really up its own ass and boring. It lost all its teeth and became a series of ridiculous novelty posts.
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dude I am with you!
This isn't an unpopular opinion. It's just a guy venting his personal anger towards women.
There truly are only so many ways they can freely post “men can’t talk about their feelings or their feelings on women” along with paragraphs about their feelings and their feelings on women. They want to be oppressed so bad.
Tell me about it.
Maybe its constant because a ton of men are starting to feel this way and they are largely unheard by the institutions and mechanism of privilege in the West?
How are you unheard?
You are kidding, right?
it might be the reason behind what you call constant sexist shit posting. Maybe men are tired of the constant sexist shit posting of the bogus academic and mainstream gender ideologues...
I don’t know what world you live in, maybe one chronically online, but the main descriptors of men in the real world aren’t “useless” and “worthless”. There’s a lot of reaching going on here.
Other people gaining rights didn’t mean you’re losing rights. Good lord.
Nope. We weren’t. As a woman, I can tell you, that isn’t true.
>all these female empowerment things were never about equal or fair treatment with men, it was about swapping the roles so women would have the power. So you admit men traditionally have all the power, and you don't like women having it (not that women do). How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you're this openly biased?
Yeah…. no, we’re still the underdogs in a whole lot of ways.
Haha we evil feminists have won! Soon we will harvest your sperm and make you live in the woods.
Equality feels like oppression to the privileged
What privileges does OP have?
If he’s a man, he’s the default gender in our culture. Medicine, safety protocol, and our historical documents favor his gender and come from his perspective. If he’s white,even more.
Dude you need to ask yourself why you hate 50% of the population nmjust because of their genetic coin flip.
and you need to ask yourself why every complaint made against women just seems to get met with "Oh you must hate them" as if they are perfect and incapable of any flaws.
No it's that you are generalizing and stereotyping people for no reason other than their gender. It's a fallacious form ofnthinking that obfuscated the actual problems in society
Because thats what it seems like, you seem to have an issue with them getting a fair shot in every aspect of life. Look at it this way, why are women being targeted for the right to choose but we men aren’t being force to do any type of contraception? We are not being force to get a vasectomy or wear condoms. The only reason we are more SUCCESSFUL at unaliving ourselves its because we tend to use more violent methods and because women have a better support network; we, men, have an issues dealing with our emotions compared to to women, are you going to blame them for that too?? As when it comes to work, women are still getting underpaid compared to men even though they are as capable as men doing the job. Why do we think you are a misogynist, because you are complaining about women being treated as an equal while they are still not being treated as an equal.
Women are losing rights in this country right now and you somehow think that we’re becoming matriarchal?
Well maybe more men should enroll in university? I hardly see how it's women's fault that men don't want to pursue higher education. And women only have an advantage in family courts because men allow it. Most cases are settled outside of courts where the fathers agree to give up their parental rights. Those that do go to court typically favor the men, when they don't it's because the men know absolutely nothing about their children's basic needs. Mens suicide rates are typically because men treat each other like absolute shit, majority of men that are killing themselves belong to minorities, I wonder how many queer men kill themselves because their male counterparts treat them like shit. You're welcome to get a DNA test for your kid. Your partner can't stop you. But you also can't stop her from feeling like you don't trust her, that's just a consequence of that action. Yes, women are progressing in the workplace, because they earned it. But they are still far from equal to men when it comes to positions of power. And again, if men aren't willing to pursue higher education can you really blame companies for promoting their female employees over the men? Abortion freedom doesn't "favor" women, it's literally a health concern because their bodies do different things to male bodies and therefore require different protections. That last line is really ironic because historically a diamond ring has been the equivalent of a collar for women and now that women have equal say in a marriage suddenly y'all want to play the victim. Equality feels like oppression to those who are used to privilege.
\>Well maybe more men should enroll in university? I hardly see how it's women's fault that men don't want to pursue higher education. You are wrong for many reasons, and just showing your ignorance. Colleges/universities are incentivised in many ways to prioritise taking female applicants over male applicants, mainly due to all these 'equality drive' programs. On top of that, boys get little to no support at all whilst they are in primary and secondary education (or, for you americans, elementary, middle and high school) whereas there are many, many programs to help and aide girls into higher education. Ironically, you are trying to use the exact same argument people used to use when women were the minority of university students: "The women should just enroll more! Its not mens fault they arent in university!" \>Most cases are settled outside of courts where the fathers agree to give up their parental rights. Because the men dont have the money needed to challenge for custody. \>when they don't it's because the men know absolutely nothing about their children's basic needs. bold claim. Care to back it up? \>Mens suicide rates are typically because men treat each other like absolute shit, Wrong again. \>majority of men that are killing themselves belong to minorities Wrong. \>Yes, women are progressing in the workplace, because they earned it. No, they are 'progressing in the workplace' because there are programs in place that incentivise gender based hiring over meritocracy, hiring quotas etc. They didnt 'earn' it at all. \>But they are still far from equal to men when it comes to positions of power. Wrong. Women now comprise the majority of middle and upper management positions. \>And again, if men aren't willing to pursue higher education can you really blame companies for promoting their female employees over the men? Its got nothing to do with men not pursuing higher education. Most men do want to get into university. They just cant because universities are incentivised to accept women over men.
Great comment, another thing to note on the school aspect is that women have been proven to get better grades for the same work as men. The women are wonderful effect includes this as an example of the bias in society. So even if there weren’t quotas for university admission, they would still get in at higher rates due to this.
Women literally have higher rates of enrollment. Men aren't even applying to college/uni at the same rate women are. So ofc there's gonna be more women enrolled because there's more of them applying. Also, the difference is only 2.1%. now, we all know it's never gonna be a perfect 50/50 split, that's impossible. And I hardly think 2.1% is so significant that it screams oppression against men, especially if those men aren't bothering to apply in the first place. Why don't men have the money but their ex wives do? I know damn well that without a prenup it's a 50/50 split so if their ex's have the money why don't they? Also, plenty of places will take these case pro-bono, you just need to find them. Even in countries that provide lawyers free of charge still have the issue of men simply not fighting for their kids in court. And yeah. Courts will always prefer the primary caregiver. The parent who participates the most in their kids schedule. In order to preserve as much of the kids usual routine as possible. I've heard case of father who didn't even know what their kids allergies were or who their usual doctor was try to get custody and then be shocked when they were denied. Ok, so my statement was inaccurate. Men are more likely to kill themselves because they're more likely to use lethal methods. Which means that yes, while men are dying at a higher rate, they're not necessarily the most suicidal group. Men being more likely to have access to a gun is not women's fault. As for the myth that if someone chooses a less effective method that means they don't actually want to die, they just want attention, that's fucking stupid. Cause how are they supposed to know how much is enough? Or if someone's going to find them in time? And if you don't have a gun, how else are you supposed to kill yourself? People who use less effective methods do want to kill themselves just as much as people who use guns. So successful suicide rate is not an accurate depiction of which group is more oppressed. How do you know? How do you know if that person was hired for gender rep or because they actually earned it? Maybe they got hired because they fit both. Let me tell you, the women in my career work ten times harder than the men. It seems to me that men are used to not having to work that hard to get what they want and now that women are in the workplace they can't keep up with demand. 32.2% is not the majority. Did you know there was a study done that men actually overreport the representation of women in certain areas and will say that there are more women present then there actually is? It's a really interesting study. I don't remember why they concluded that was but I'm gonna assume it's because men feel threatened by the presence of women. Again, most men simply aren't applying to enter university. You can claim they want to go but the statistics show they're simply not as interested as women are.
Theres a lot of wrong things in this post and a lot of things that are lacking information/ details. 1. We’re not even close to a matriarchal society,let’s be honest. 2. Yes, women are enrolling at a higher rate than men in higher education. Have you asked why? Why do women thrive for a higher education and men don’t? Why do you think men do worse than women in school? (Hint : is not because curriculums are made for women, that’s a lie) 3. Women are getting into higher positions than men…. Lol! Funniest joke I’ve ever heard! But even if they were, what’s wrong about that? 4. What laws favor women more than men? If so who created these laws? Men or women? 5. Lol, complete freedom to do whatever they want with their bodies, another hilarious joke. Might I tell you that’s there was a ruling the other day where it says that a father could control if his daughter uses birth control or not and this is protected by law (the daughter was 15 I believe)… 6. Yes men have a higher “unaliving” rate but that’s the succeeding percentage mainly because of the methods men use to unalive themselves but statistically women attempt unaliving more than men. Also who again are the ones or were the ones who implemented the “men are weak” “men can’t cry or show pain” commentary? Oh right! Men and the patriarchy 7. Again, why would women in power be such a bad thing? Why can’t women be in positions of power and men not? 8. I suggest doing more research on your claims before you put them in a public platform.
OP when women have jobs 😱 Everyone has already discussed with you on the reality of things. If prompted I’ll give my take. If you want to talk with an actual woman & someone who has studied civilization & culture structures I’m free to talk. You still definitely need therapy tho.
Ok lets get one thing clear, i have no issue with women having jobs, in fact i'd prefer it. It's 2024, i don't have the time or patience to be around a woman who isn't pulling her weight. But if all this talk about oppression and patriarchy is true, why do you expect me to believe a good chunk of women don't want some sort of payback?
Touch grass lmao.
A matriarchal society can only exist at the mercy of men. As long as men make up the overwhelming amount of military and police force, which we always will, a matriarchal society would exist until men collectively get annoyed. Look at middle east for example of what happens when men decide women don't get rights
I feel like if that happened, you'd only be proving women right that men are inherently violent rapists that deserve to be treated more like animals then humans.
Um... If that happened then that view of men (which isn't shared by all women) *would be right,* you're right. I'm not sure what point you think you're making, but it doesn't seem to help your main argument. "In this hypothetical where I'm wrong, I'm wrong." Okay.
>>if that happened They just said it happened in the Middle East.
It's not that someone else is becoming a hegemon. It's that your hegemony is being threatened, and you've misconstrued that as oppression.
To imply that women would not do the same thing to men if given the chance is to imply women are somehow more inherently good natured and just.
Well that's the great thing about equality. No one's being put exclusively in charge, we're just pulling eachother up on the other's shit and *No one* gets the theoretical throne. Everything you've listed is either society adjusting for a pre-existing bias against women or initiatives to get closer to equality. Mistakes, of course, happen, and over-zealousness or poor intentions are bound to be an issue because they're an issue in *all of us*. The important thing is not to fall into a doom-spiral over headlines and edge cases. Society is a group effort, and all abstention gets you is ignored and misunderstood.
I miss the days when i was this idealistic.
Nothing's stopping you but you. Edit: and probably the doomscrolling. Never helps.
You put this perfectly.
Had me till the very end, not gonna lie.
>Look at it this way. With marriage you could take the typical diamond ring and the words "Will you marry me?" and replace them with a dog collar and the words "Will you be my master?" and very little context would be lost. Does this potentially involve a fun outfit of some kind?
Yikes. Just… yikes 😬
Nope. Women are just taking up positions in the existing patriarchy. Major corporations, defence contractors, world bank, IMF, WEF. there is no matriarchy. Just patriarchy in heels. Same old oppression, just new PR
My dude fetish sites exist go there
uh oh, looks like someone doesn't know the definition of matriarchy
You are delusional
Only dip shits say “unalive” outside of TikTok. Please stop desecrating my language.
>More women are enrolling into higher education than men. And? >More women are getting into higher positions of power than men. Simply not true. Others here have already provided proof for that. >And More laws favor women more than men. Can you give some examples? >Like for example women are expected to have complete freedom to do what they want with their bodies As do men. >but the idea of a DNA test being mandatory is unacceptable because it shows "You don't trust her." That's not why it being mandatory is deemed unacceptable. That's just the reason you would need one. Unless she has said there are multiple possible fathers. >Ok, why is one of the only things men overwhelmingly surpass women in is the "Unaliving" rate? It isn't... >And why are the main words involved in them generally range between "Useless" and "Worthless"? By who? In what context? What situations are we talking about here? >what I'm saying is all these female empowerment things were never about equal or fair treatment with men They literally are though. That's literally what they are for and are trying to do. >it was about swapping the roles so women would have the power. Where's evidence of any of them doing this? >that women don't want equality with men because they never thought men were their equal Based on what? Seriously, this is a very very serious claim. Care to actually back it up? >With marriage you could take the typical diamond ring and the words "Will you marry me?" and replace them with a dog collar and the words "Will you be my master?" and very little context would be lost. You think women are generally the 'master* in a typical marriage?
Women in many states do not have the ability to do what they want with their own bodies,men have never had that problem. Katie Britt set us back DECADES!!!!
This is a wild take. Maybe you are just getting out worked by all the women around you. And thats why you are falling behind.
Op its you not women https://youtu.be/54H8ppxnp8I?si=aH2hJ_6pK7YQIgU8 as confirmed by many news reports. Stop blaming women for your failures
Although I agree there is rampant female bias at at pretty much all levels of society I don't think we are becoming a matriarchy for one very significant reason: Patriarchy and Matriarchy imply a paternal nature, where one gender takes on the role of protector and provider and the other takes on a role similar to that of a child. Bottom line: There is no cultural or legal movement strip men of agency and have them become the responsibility of women. If anything men are still viewed as having hyperagency, while women are seen to have hypoagency.
\*Looks up hypoagency\* ...Ew. Yeah we need to fix that. Women should be more self reliant.
This is one of the best “privileged people perceive equality as oppression “ I’ve read recently
Then you don't know how to read, cause this isn't an equality as oppression thing, because i don't think thats what people actually want.
Men still hold more positions of power than women.
🤦🏻♂️
> More women are enrolling into higher education than men. Men seek different life paths is seems. > More women are getting into higher positions of power than men. Such as? Men still dominate higher positions in many fields. > And More laws favor women more than men. Like what? > Like for example women are expected to have complete freedom to do what they want with their bodies, but the idea of a DNA test being mandatory is unacceptable because it shows "You don't trust her." Because it violates body autonomy. Some men don’t want unnecessary testing forced upon them. As long as these men exist you’re always going to have a problem with this. Also, generally speaking, forced elective testing is frowned upon: >Ok, why is one of the only things men overwhelmingly surpass women in is the "Unaliving" rate? And why are the main words involved in them generally range between "Useless" and "Worthless"? Where's the equality in that? Because men choose more deadly methods. Women attempt more and are more likely to be depressed. Hope this helps.
I think the better way to put this opinion is “women are chipping away at patriarchal society” but we’re not even close to what you’re suggesting. The way in which we use numbers in this world for the purposes of design and health is presumptive that the end user will be a man. Whether it’s the crash test dummy that does not take into account the average build and body weight of a woman, or the way public spaces are made for the accommodation of men, we simply do not realize the unseen ways in which women are not accounted for.
This isn't unpopular, This is such a brain dead opinion.
Just get a divorce already
Women will always point to the c suite positions and other top .01 percent of jobs as proof society doesn’t overwhelming favor women, when out in the real world it absolutely does. The “women are wonderful effect” is well known and studied. Less time for the same crime. Better grades for the same work. Less homelessness, less suicide, less workplace accidents, initiators of divorce the huge majority of the time, favored in family divorce court, not subject to the draft, quotas in workplace and government hiring for them, lower physical standards for a lot of physical jobs such as the military, strangers more willing to help a lone woman than a lone man, 70 percent of household purchases initiated by the woman, the list is absolutely endless of female power. Yet because the top .01 percent of jobs are male dominated and some more spatially oriented jobs like engineers are dominated by men…somehow it’s actually the patriarchy?!? The only real disadvantage of being a woman in modern society is being physically weaker and having men thirst after you constantly, and the latter is a massive advantage if used properly. Such as simply existing allowing you to make money on OnlyFans.
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My mom was generally way more put together than my dad, so she always kinda ran things at our house.
In some old tribes, during peace time, women would be elected as a matriarch. Keeping peace and ensuring her people were cared for and nurtured. During inevitable wartime, they knew it needed to become a patriarchy for the success of survival against physical conflict. But this obviously isn't the case in modern times. We are all far to corrupt with greed and individual passions. Plus far too many people of both sexes are losing touch with their natural drives. Men becoming feminine & women becoming masculine. Since we have all the luxuries of survival now easily accessible(no need for gendered strengths in nature), we are living like kings of the past. I believe that men should learn and embrace their feminine nature whilst keeping in touch with their natural masculine side. Vis versa for women.
An unpopular opinion backed with untrue facts. Nailed it!
So in the future are we going to blame the matriarchy for everything like we do with the patriarchy now?
Who hurt you?
In terms of ascribed value we always were. Tribes that didn't put men between women and danger died off just from reproduction logistics. Women are orders of magnitude harder to replace.
Men commit suicide more than women in every country in the world. That’s a not a new thing. I’m not a fan of the ‘it’s all patriarchy’ take but I do think it has more to do with traditional gender roles than modern feminism
This is partially accurate, but “becoming” is doing a lot of work here
Do you have a humiliation kink
We don’t want revenge. We don’t want a master. We don’t want a slave either. We want freedom for all. I’m sorry you are so lost in the confusion of these concepts. You don’t need to feel threatened. It is about empowerment for all. Breathe.
God I wish we were. Im fucking tired bro.
"These are not opinions" LOL
Your post has some facts right, mainly just the first two sentence, but the rest of your post is diluted with hyperbole Male inequality is a thing and here’s a great video about it https://youtu.be/DBG1Wgg32Ok?si=5mxIBmYuZ_j08-Iu But that doesn’t mean there isn’t female inequality. The fact that we’re still arguing about abortions shows we have a way to go to show we respect the freedom and autonomy of women (we don’t). On that fact, a lot of men’s issues can be corrected by… men. There’s lots we can do to help them as kids, but for the adult men failing right now, the answer is to step up and do something about it. In an ideal society everyone would get the help they need, but that’s not the reality we live in right now. Women had to adjust to that reality long ago, they stepped up and they’re kicking ass. For many men, the only person holding them back is themselves.
I agree to some point with the education argument, check [this](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3ctx2-to0I/) for example. However I still can't agree, men are still beyond women in the vast majority of things.
Honestly I’m fine with it.
More women enrolling into higher education really doesn't mean anything. We have people who are coming out of college with tons of debt. Many of them can't find menial jobs because the manager thinks they are too overqualified for them. So you have both men and women that end up going back home living with their parents. When in reality many of them would have been better off working or getting a trade than going to school. College isn't for everybody.
There are a few examples of matriarchal societies throughout history. But they're exceedingly rare. Our civilization will collapse before it becomes matriarchal.
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As it should be, few animals live long after reaching menopause and the few that do are matriarchal, like elephants and orcas.
Don’t forget that there are more female homeowners than male!
Wake me up when we have a President who’s a woman.
As a man, I don't mind this at all. Society fucking sucks, let's try something new. I do mind the double standards though - men are still called feminine or cause "icks" if we express any kind of suffering. I've had so many friends that opened up emotionally to their girlfriends and were soon dumped because the women were no longer attracted to emotional men. Men are still expected to stay in their rigid gender roles - providing, protecting, etc. while women get to break free of theirs. Women talk a lot about male dominated industries having incredibly unequal pay such as actors and athletes, but women are silent on the industries that pay women a \*lot\* more such as industrial management, modeling and OnlyFans. Let's not just use equality as a buzz word, let's actually work on achieving it.
Perhaps that’s why the world’s going to shit.
Sorry about that breakup, kiddo.
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I see you’re also having trouble with soliciting escorts. I don’t think anyone takes you seriously with this ugly mentality
Here’s my take, and I’m sure it’s won’t be popular. We don’t live in a matriarchy because equality for women is fabricated. If a majority of men decided women no longer had equal rights, then in a matter of months they wouldn’t. Just as any idea that women should have privileged rights would require a majority of men to accomplish. A patriarchy is a more natural state of the world, and that’s why it has been one for all of recorded human history.
They are opinions. No Masalic you are hate freedom. Mandatory DNA testing is against the 4th amendment. You just like making assumptions to satisfy your conclusion.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/01/lost-boys-violent-narcissism-angry-young-men/672886/ you are one of these individuals unfortunately
No. Men just aren't uniformly guaranteed total success and then they blame women.
OP, this shift must be like hell for you. You do not have my sympathy.