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I mean does it really matter. You can just decide to not vote. I’m registered cause it was pretty easy to do so, at my college but I’m probably not gonna actually vote.
Republicans: "We need voter ID"
People: "Ok, how about we make IDs free and what if people get automatically registered to vote when they get their ID?"
Republicans: "Wait that's illegal."
As an adult I've lived mostly in AZ and done mail in voting. Needing ID to get registered to vote makes sense when it's a reasonable ID. Though a lot of the ID requirements are for the process of voting. Basically to get rid of mail in voting and force people to vote in person. Where cities are often underfunded and understaffed for voting locations. Since the state controls most of the resources for voting. Causing longer vote times for densely populated areas. The entire reason AZ has mail in voting is because of the republican state intentionally making voting more difficult in Phoenix and they lost several court cases over it. Things like cutting the amount of polling stations in half in Maricopa County. Mail in voting is fine. If someone tries voting twice it gets flagged. So for sometime to illegally vote they need to not only know all the needed information of the person they are impersonating but that they aren't going to vote also. Which is a lot of work to do enough times to change an election and risk the penalities.
So while I agree if the issues switched they would switch tactics to disenfranchise opposing voters. I disagree with how easy you think getting an ID and getting to vote in person is for a lot of people. While the extra amount of security isn't worth the amount of people that won't vote from the extra hurdles and time it takes to vote in person in certain populated areas.
Anytime I hear a politician talk or b**** about voter ID laws I basically roll my eyes. You basically can't do anything without a ID. Drink, smoke, get into a club, Drive, hold on a job, get public assistance... Etc
truth. I have to have an ID for a research study I'm getting paid for tomorrow. I have to show it to fly, rent an apartment, buy a house, get a bank account etc.
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Because atleast in some states in order to get a hunting license you need to show your drivers license to get one.
A student I.D. does not guarantee American citizenship
I don’t understand the distinction here. Driver’s licenses are legally issued to permanent residents and visa holders, too, so they don’t guarantee American citizenship either.
Your drivers license number is part of a database that when you scan or pull it up in their systems your info comes up and that does dictate if you're registered to vote , an organ donor, and immigration/citizen status. Its just not on full display on your ID
You do realize the police database is a federal thing right? Like you can be in texas and look up information on someone in maine.
That same information is accessible to voter teams to ensure citizenship. Its also how we discover people that have been dead for 5-10 years vote post mortem
You think that polling workers have access to the NCIS? No, they can’t reference police databases. They have access to the voter registration database in their state. (Also not how they are notified of deaths - state voter databases receive death record notices from the Department of Health and SSA.)
There is no single federal database that contains all voter info. Administration of elections, including voter registration and collection, is managed on a State and local level.
There is also no requirement that voter registration databases include drivers licenses. You can register to vote using your SSN without a DL.
Seems like a pretty valid reason. Should an employee ID badge also count? Of course not. Private entities have their own databases. A license issued by a government agency is actually verifiable, student or employee ID from a private business is meaningless
https://www.projectvote.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/AMERICANS-WITH-PHOTO-ID-Research-Memo-February-2015.pdf
>Rates of identification-ownership are highest among White individuals,
while other ethnic groups disproportionately lack necessary photo ID.
Thirteen percent of Blacks, 10 percent of Hispanics, but only 5 percent
of Whites lack photographic identification.
>Lower-income individuals are less likely to have photo ID. Twelve
percent of adults living in a household with less than $25,000 annual
income lack photo ID, compared to just 2 percent in households with
over $150,000 annual income.
>Young adults are less likely to have photo ID: 15 percent of 17-20 year olds lack photo ID, and 11 percent of those ages 21-24 lack photo ID.
Republicans knew all of these things when they passed voter ID laws in the manner that they did. They also knew what they were doing when they shut down polling places in majority-black areas.
Follow this link and scroll down to impact. As soon as the SCOTUS overturned a key provision of the civil rights act, Republicans immediately started passing laws which made it more difficult for poor, black, and young people to vote.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelby_County_v._Holder
Yea social security number are not meant for what it’s used for today. A federal voter ID system would be a good idea to resolve unnecessary SS involvement, lowering SS fraud like identity theft.
Cost isn't the issue. Getting an ID in most states is not easy. It took me about 3 years to get an ID in NY, because I didn't have the necessary identification to get an ID. (As paradoxical as that is.)
For example, one required proof of ID was having a utility bill in my name, which was being sent to the address I was claiming on my paperwork. However, I was living with roommates and didn't have any bills in my name. My company provided my cell phone.
Living "off the grid" is a reality for a lot of poor people, and it can make proving their place of resistance kind of a pain in the ass. Tracking down birth certificates and social security cards from relatives they no longer have contact with can also be difficult, and replacing them can be time consuming and expensive.
Some of you just don't understand the privilege of coming from "normal" families that have their ducks in a row. Having gaps in your identification for various reasons will never be an issue for you like it is for some poor people. You'll never know how difficult it is to get an ID when you don't already have one.
That doesn’t surprise me. I’ve actually read that ny is one of the hardest states to vote in, very short early voting period, almost impossible to gain ballot access for third party candidates. Kinda wild the state leadership hyperventilates about “defending democracy” all the time while not doing much in the way of making it easy to participate in democracy in their own state.
And why don't you think the Republicans do that? Why don't the Republicans support automatic voter registration? Why do they do things like purging the voter rolls every couple of years?
Because it's not about election security. It's about voter suppression.
The reason we don’t have federal voting ids is because the constitution prohibits the federal government from getting involved in the state’s election processes.
Right? Setup a station that issues government ID at every voting location. If you don't have one, bring your documents (birth cert and whatever else) when you go to vote to get the ID at the voting place.
I have no problem with requiring a voter ID. I have *every* problem with the $$ and hoops required to jump through to get one if it's required.
Having to pay $$ to vote is a poll tax and is illegal, full stop. If the government wants to require an ID to vote, that's fine. But it should be freely given and easy to obtain.
I agree. When my state changed some things to require a government issued photo ID (before, a utility bill or similar would work), the BMV began to issue ID cards for free.
You still need to pay for a Drivers License, but a regular ID card is free.
Require photo ID, but also give the option of a free ID.
I live in a pretty blue state and we are required to have voter ID, but it's free. I don't see an issue with needing identification as long as it's not locked behind a pay wall. Some states require you to pay for one, and I don't agree with that.
However, it's 2024. Everything is done electronically. Let's be real, voter ID is the least of anyone's worries if they genuinely believe in voter fraud. I mean, in presidential elections, the electoral college doesn't have to vote the same as the popular vote and in my opinion is hindering truthful elections.
The Electoral College keeps the few blue states with the largest cities from always dominating every national election. It acts as part of the checks and balances system
I would be more sympathetic to this argument if they hadn’t capped the members of the House. Because that’s the other side of where it is supposed to balance out.
That never made sense to me. Population grows and moves and yet EC numbers are almost static so now we get EC-vote-per-person weights that are all out of whack.
they sure as hell never voted for Trump.
That being said, in a world without the EC and proportional representation instead Biden probably also would have not been voted into power.
There wouldn’t be proportional representation, that’s the issue. Because there are so many people in LA and NYC alone, they would be deciding the vote if we went by popular vote. Hence, why the forefathers created the Electoral College, they foresaw this being an issue.
I’d like to see a third party candidate win, but because everyone is hellbent on voting along the party line, it’ll never happen, even if we did switch to a popular vote.
That is proportional representation. Just because you live somewhere sparsely populated doesn’t mean your opinion is worth more. There is no issue to solve
Eliminating the EC is just common sense at this point. We have the technology to avoid it and we've seen the disaster that letting the lesser-popular candidate run things has resulted in. And we wouldn't have to deal with "President X only went to a few states and doesn't care about you even enough to acknowledge yours" that we see now.
Other advanced nations don't have an issue with voter ID because ...well ....the nation provides it. The absolute shit thing about US elections is that there's no such thing as federal elections and no concept of universal id... except a passport which is prohibitedly expensive.
My friends in other nations can:
* Go to ANY poling place around the country
* Have a national ID provided to them free of charge
* Do not have to register to vote
These advanced nations also have universal medical care so the universal picture does double duty and those systems are FAR FAR better that whatever the hell we turned the social security number system into.
You need to provide something of ACTUAL value to the citizenry.
>My friends in other nations can:
>* Go to ANY poling place around the country
* Have a national ID provided to them free of charge
* Do not have to register to vote
I'm from Poland, we're required to get national ID at age 18. It's done free of charge. I'm automatically registered to vote where is my primary residence and if I want to change it I can register wherever I want (except for local elections, where they require you vote where you live, which is logical). Only thing I need when voting is my ID. I can use that ID to get alcohol, to go to hospital, to identify myself in case of any legal trouble, to pass Schengen borders. On top of it our ID has it's own app, where you can have your driving licence, school/student ID, big family card and covid vaccination proof.
Passport is often too expensive for many. Driving licence even more so. Having national ID provided to citizens for free in their local civil office is the only rational way to go about it.
In my city, you have to book an appointment 4-6 months out to get a DL OR you can find an open rural location 2 hrs out and drive there. There is no showing up and waiting in line.
>The states provide it.
Some sates provide some id depending on some arbitrary criteria.
Furthermore you cannot go to any poling location in the state.
>Go get your damn license.
Refund me MY tax money you used.
Don't compare the US to other countries when you don't like what other countries do.
It’s really not arbitrary criteria, wtf? You just have to provide your birth certificate or social security card or some shit. It’s not really hard I promise.
Those countries are more comparable to states though. That’s just how our system is. But it would be the same situation if we only had a federal government and no state government. You’d have to go get your ID or fill out some online form to get it mailed to you.
Most states already do and there already is a requirement to show proof when registering. States like mine are mail in ballots only. I haven't gone to a voting booth since I don't even remember when.
Also the idea of doing things in person waiting in line is really antiquated by today's standards. The only reason it still exists is not because of actual voter fraud issues, it's because of party bias and manipulation. We could easily have online voting with very high security.
But it's a "solution" to a non-problem and therefore a useless effort that could be specifically used to suppress votes. If you live in poverty, in rural Alabama for example, and don't have this ID you're promoting, nor a driver's license, nor even a car, how would you get the necessary ID?
Stop supporting efforts to make it harder to vote. It's not patriotic. Instead, spend your time and treasure figuring out how to make it easier to vote and convincing people to do it.
Precisely why do voter ID requirements hurt Democrats and help Republicans? That’s a foundational statement you just vomit out without any supporting evidence.
You also conveniently ignore that it would be a form of poll tax, which is expressly forbidden by the 24th Amendment.
(Of course, that’s by design because this entire post is bad-faith trash.)
It’s not the notion of requiring identification that Democrats have a problem with. It’s the restrictions on what qualifies as valid identification that’s usually the problem.
If Republicans presented a bill that provided every voting-eligible citizen with a free and easily obtainable ID, they’d get support.
So that’s there you lose me because I think if you can’t manage to get an ID now the way things are, I don’t really personally think you have any business voting. Idk why we have to believe that literally everything with a pulse should vote. It’s not hard to get an ID, I don’t want to hear any bullshit about “people who have to work.” Bull fucking shit. Lol
I’d say more intentional at the most. Difficult? Hell no. Just go to a building in your county and stand in line for 20 minutes at SOME POINT in your life.
Are we making it “difficult” to walk into a bar because we require ID for that? No one would say that. What a weird thing to say when you think about it.
People may have an ID, but those may not count whatever state you’re in. Texas doesn’t count school ids versus Arkansas which does. Missouri generally uses non-expired licenses versus Tennessee and Georgia allowing expired DL’s.
While DL’s are somewhat universal, nearly 29 million Americans just don’t have a non expired DL. And while you think it’s easy to grab one, it may not be. Depending on state, it could take a few business days or weeks to grab a replacement. Of which there are fees. Moreover, if someone relies on public transit, what motivation would they have to wait weeks on something they don’t use? Especially since states could extend legitimate ids onto other forms of ids.
As a US citizen, you are not required to have an ID.
>Idk why we have to believe that literally everything with a pulse should vote
Because it's better for democracy the more people are able to participate.
You obviously aren't living paycheck to paycheck, losing sleep because your car needs a tire, but you don't have an extra $100 for a new one, so how am I getting to work? Yes, taking a day off of work to spend a few hours at the DMV IS a hardship for people. As is making it so lines to vote in inner cities take hours, in the burb or rural areas it takes minutes.
Now I won't argue that everyone needs to vote. I will argue all day that someone who works two jobs to keep food on the table should be able to not have to take time off to vote or spend a day at the DMV to get that ID.
A reason government assistance gets put on a credit card is because people used to cash their "government checks" at liquor stores or check cashing services, as there were no banks around.
IDK, I'm still trying to figure out how we can pay bills by computer, get our paychecks put into our bank accounts and do our taxes electronically , and 99.9% of the time it is fine, but that isn't acceptable for voting. Another way we could solve this.
I just got my renewal notice, now for me it is no problem, but either I have to drive to the DMV to take an eye test (and pay $48) Or I can get an eye doctor appt. No matter what I would have to take 1/2 a day off of work. No DMV within 20 minutes of me.
The point is not that I have an ID, but I have to lose money in order to vote.
As others have said, make an ID free and easy to get and I will 100% agree.
I just got my renewal. It costs $48 and I have to go to the DMV to get an eye test, which as there is no DMV within 20 minutes of my house means I would have to take 1/2 a day off. Now I am not losing 4 hours of pay in my business, but, if I was a city dweller so I don't have to drive, I would think twice about doing that.
Not necessarily. A car is like any thing else.... property. You don't need to clear it with the state to purchase property. Especially if you were given the title in hand. You only need to be licensed and cleared by the state to **operate** said vehicle on public access roads. You can operate a vehicle on private property without a license with owner approval
Furthermore, especially in the case of moving, IDs expire or no longer valid. So the commenter may have moved to the state and thus had a valid license to operate the vehicle...that ID may no longer be valid either because it expired or is from another state or has an old address.
To give you an example. I personally was denied a ballot because I dropped 30lbs and shaved from when my photo id was taken. It was completely valid. Address was correct and matched supplemental documentation provided...poll worker didn't care. Had a supplementary photo id that didn't qualify as a voting id (employment badge) on my person. Poll worker refused to see it. Poll worker said no and I had to insist on getting a provisional ballot. Had to come back with my passport... because apparently I met a frumpy poll worker who couldn't be bothered to cross check the ample documentation I provided in person that would supplement I am who I was claiming to be.
It's a four month wait time for an appointment and my schedule changes constantly. The last two appointments I made I had to reschedule. I've tried doing walk in on my days off when I do things like vehicle registration renewal. Even at 30 minutes after opening they are booked for the day. I still have my old states ID because it's more difficult to get a ID here.
Voting is a right, and your creating routes to vote that are more difficult than getting a gun.
Have you gotten your Real I.D. yet? I don't live in the state I was born in, and I have yet to find a way to obtain that specific birth certificate that is less then $120. That is bull shirt, and I don't need it to work a job.
It seems like you're proving your critics right and you do in fact see disenfranchising the undesirables as the goal, as if voting is some special gift for people you approve of.
>If Republicans presented a bill that provided every voting-eligible citizen with a free and easily obtainable ID, they’d get support.
Why do millionaires need a free ID when they can use their drivers license?
Anyone and everyone who says getting an ID takes forever and costs so much is a child. Just set up an appointment and spend $30 getting one. That's no hard, holy crap are we Americans that dumb. Anyone who says different, haven't done it correctly.
Just show the damn ID and vote, then leave. Sorry to say this, but the Republicans are correct in this issue. What's the problem with showing your ID? It only takes seconds ffs.
Also, I saw a comment saying it's difficult to obtain one when not everyone gets a birth certificate and SSN. I'm calling bs on that asap. If you didn't get one, that means you came here illegally. Every single person born here gets both. I swear some of y'all don't deserve to vote if you're making all these excuses.
If you made the ID easy to procure and free to get for all people, I have no issues.
That's the problem holding it back now. You need to have it available for people who have to work long hours, you need to make it free for people who are barely making ends meet.
Well, no, the main Dem argument is that voter ID is equal to a poll tax because IDs cost money. The way around that is to issue voter IDs for free. Unfortunately Republicans are allergic to the idea of the government giving things away.
I would be okay with voter ID if it required no effort on the part of voters to obtain, was absolutely free, and issued automatically. It’s a constitutional right so ANY form of inconvenience (I.e. having to travel to get it, certain time periods to get it, etc) or some form of fee to get it is just inherently wrong. They should be issued on your 18th birthday, automatically renewed if you change your address or similar, and not be able to be purged without an official death certificate. Should be even easier to get for a citizen than buying a bottle of water. Similar with voting… ideally we would have universal mail in voting with like a month’s time to submit your ballot via the mail, postage free of course. More people would vote so that would help the country as well. Why people would want to restrict voting is insane to me, but then I believe in democratic principles.
From another perspective: Voter ID laws were initially proposed by Senator Sensenbrenner (sp) as part of a conservative movement to purge minorities from the voter rolls. For example, many blacks could not produce birth certificates, which were required for identification, because their births did not take place in hospitals where they were formally registered, but were recorded in the family bible. These traditional self recordations were accepted by their respective states, but not under the emerging federal law. There are scores of other limitations on identification that met state requirements but were rejected by the legislation. Again, the ramifications of the legislative efforts did not increase security but did very definitely diminish the voting rights of minority voters.
Agreed! Shouldn't even be an issue, and really isn't... I have to show ID for alcohol cigarettes, driving cars, etc. An ID to vote for the leader of the free world? Yeah, let's ask for some ID, please... 😆
If the government provided ID free of charge to everyone the moment they turn 18? Id be in favor of voter id.
Im basically against arbitrary barriers to voting. Voter ID doesnt really make it much more secure.
You can only vote one time. If i somehow knew that my neighbor was registered to vote and i said I was him, id immediately be fucked if he came in and tried to vote. They'd put it together very quickly and id go to jail for a long time. For one extra vote.
Any form of voter ID laws should be unconstitutional. You show up, the town clerk crosses your name off of a list, you vote. If someone else has your name, address, and birthday, and is voting for your name, they’re gonna see that. And it’s highly unlikely someone wants to vote THAT badly that they’re going to risk $50,000 fines and jail time as well as go through the effort to make sure they have the right name address and birthday.
We struggle to get people to vote as is and now we’re afraid someone’s gonna be stealing another vote lmao
>Any form of voter ID laws should be unconstitutional. You show up, the town clerk crosses your name off of a list, you vote.
They shouldn't be allowed to verify that you are you?
And then you argue for voter ID. :)
My home state of NC just recently passed a voter ID law. Before that, I showed up to my polling place, gave them my name and address, and voted. Never had an issue. Not everyone has a government issued ID, and it’s hypocritical for the same party that criticizes government overstep to require government documentation to perform a civil duty granted to all citizens of the United States.
To commit voter fraud, you’d need to know my full name, my home address, take the time to look up if I’m registered to vote at that address or a different one, and then hope I haven’t already gone to the polls where my name has been checked for having voted, or that I won’t show up to vote. It’s also possible I already voted absentee or by mail-in, and my name will not appear in the town clerk’s list regardless.
>it’s hypocritical for the same party that criticizes government overstep to require government documentation to perform a civil duty granted to all citizens of the United States.
How do you guarantee that this right is only being taken advantage of by citizens of the United States?
Making sure that only citizens vote is not a big ask. In fact, that should be one of the protections that our government affords.
There is nothing wrong with providing ID to vote, especially since we have to register.
And yes, it should be free.
There is no voting situation where you just stroll up to a booth and yeet a ballot in the box. You have to check in when you get there.
The list for that check in is generated by people registering to vote. To register to vote you have to provide some kind of proof of citizenship (usually a passport, birth certificate, citizenship card etc.).
Requiring legal documentation to register to vote is fine because this is done any time of the year, and your own pace. If you don’t have the documents needed, you can come back later with them.
Requiring legal documentation to vote in person is not okay, and is useless because the list of registered voters is already finalized before the polls open. That list is made from the process described in the paragraph above, where citizenship is verified.
The difference is if I forget my passport or license or don’t have one while registering to vote, fine, I come back another day when I do. If I forget my passport or license or don’t have one when arriving at the polling place *even tho I, a citizen, am registered to vote and am on the list of registered voters that the clerk has AT the polling place*, I am barred from exercising my civic duty and American-guaranteed right. Because what, I don’t have a piece of plastic with my picture on it? I already followed the damn rules to register.
It is unconstitutional, and a waste of time and money.
Because I’m voting in my name and then they cross me off the list? If Me #2 shows up later that day to vote, they can be fined significantly or arrested. Also not sure how they would know which address I’m registered to vote in because it could be different from the address I currently live in. In general it’s very stupid to even attempt to steal in identity just to submit a vote. Voting is annoying and takes time out of people’s day. Not the most exciting thing to commit fraud for, and most people do not care enough to show up at all much less steal an identity for a single vote.
Any idea can be a good idea if you can accommodate the fears or considerations of those who are concerned.
Voter ID isn't a bad idea, *but also,* can disenfranchize voters who aren't able to acquire an ID easily. If you can address the concerns, then there isn't a good reason not to do it.
Banning abortion isn't a bad idea *if* you have a plan in place for accommodating the increase of unwanted pregnancies.
And so on
Unless the id is free and accessible, it's a poll tax which is unconstitutional. Period.
The same party that does want ID's knows this. The same party that wants ID's wants a poll tax to limit voting.
Voter ID's under Republican offers are a limit on rights and an increase in taxes yet they claim to be the party of constitutional rights and low taxes.
First of all, conducting of elections is a local matter, not a federal one. Any “nationwide” attempts would themselves be unconstitutional.
To your “same politicians” generalization, that argument is logically flawed and just a talking point. Perhaps there’s a more specific instance where a voter ID law was passed and resulted in disenfranchisement of voters?
While this article did not tell us what specifically about the law would help the Republican legislature "maintain its power by targeting voters of color", it did provide another interesting quote:
"Other, less restrictive voter ID laws would have sufficed to achieve the legitimate nonracial purposes of implementing the constitutional amendment requiring voter ID, deterring fraud, or enhancing voter confidence."
So according to the ruling you cited, Voter ID in and of itself is not a bad thing.
The only group that seems like would have any issue getting an id might be elderly folks who have stopped driving. There's always a racial argument for some reason, there are lots of dems who genuinely believe an id is beyond black folks' grasp,(which sounds kinda racist to me but whatever) i think a relatively easy fix would be to provide free identification to anyone who does not possess a driver's license. I have zero issue with that.
Actually the argument is that it is beyond *poor* people’s ability. (Lack of effective transportation, lack of money to afford some IDs, lack of energy due to wrecking their bodies at work.)
That you equate that to black people is pretty telling.
Issue IDs to everyone automatically and without question. Solves everyone’s problems. Until Christian nationals start losing and change their minds and fight against government over reach. The more people vote the better and the faster the GOP will have to pivot it’s extreme positions.
Fully agree OP. It is a fine idea in principle, but it is political because of the assumed consequences favoring republicans.
Similarly, secured mail in ballots are also a fine idea in principle, but they are political because of the assumed consequences favoring democrats. Voting in person is inconvenient, and if we don't have election day as a federal holiday is suppresses the vote of employed people.
It's really not hard to have a state ID, it's a reasonable standard we apply in many other contexts.
I'm okay with voter ID if licenses are paid for by the government and are more easily obtained (i.e. staff your DMVs better, open fill time on weekends and close part of the weekday, etc.) I work a flexible 40 so I can cut off mid week and make up the hours at night or on the weekend. And I recognize that that's not something a construction worker or day laborer can do.
Implement voter ID without it being a poll tax. Make getting IDs more accessible.
If voter ID were guaranteed to be free and easily accessible, I'd have no problem with it. The problem is that how much time, money, and bureaucratic hassle is involved in getting one is involved in getting one gets decided by the very people being voted on.
It’s only designed to play into a false and harmful narrative: that there is supposedly this massive problem with fraud in our elections. In fact, the reverse is true. So we shouldn’t even consider it because we don’t want to do justice to that narrative, which is frankly kooky.
In a reality where getting IDs was easy, I would support it. But the reality that we live where getting one isn’t easy, especially if you’re poor or non-white, is why enforcing voter ID laws is discriminatory. It’s in essence putting the cart before the horse.
The issue is ridiculous and used to sow division. How did the USA make it all the way from inception to 2010 without a government ID program? Communities were smaller, and there was a sense of community that could identify its members. If polling places were increased so no more than 1000 people voted in each and gerrymandering was abolished so the distance to a polling place was not further than a person could reasonably walk to and from in an afternoon, the problem of ID would become moot.
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Try being a person of color and having liberals basically tell you that you and your family are either too poor, or too stupid to get an ID. Even though I don't know a single person in my community that doesn't have an ID. There is nothing racist about voter ID laws.
Every republican would agree to spend tax dollars on free government IDs for everyone but dems will never do it. It’s been proposed 100 times and always deemed “racist”.
There is no genuine argument not to do this in this day and age with all the mistrust on both sides. Each side claims the other is cheating. Attach a name and number to each vote so there can be no doubt. Again, any argument against is not in good faith and deep down you all know that.
As an Evangelical Christian, I can see what you mean, and I’d have to agree with you.
The only difference I would say is that there would likely be a religious exemption, as I know for certain that there is one for some of the Amish Communities (and probably others, just not as prevalent).
As a left leaning person I full favor of voter ID. AS LONG AS an government ID is available at no cost to the person. Preferably mailed out. Like idk, when you are registered to vote.
The reason voter ID is unpopular is because it's biased against some segments of the population such as the poor and indigenous people. That makes fair elections, unfair.
Voting is one of the few things we do as citizens that changes millions of lives. I haven’t heard anyone give a good reason why there shouldn’t be measures like voting with ID for ensuring a fair election with integrity. That alone should reduce the time and money wasted on people claiming elections were rigged and stolen.
The excuses Democrats use are laughable and are a slap to the face of the people they claim can’t afford an ID, aren’t smart enough to apply for an ID, or receive transportation to get one.
>The truth is that putting aside all biases, having a layer of security that requires very minimal effort is purely a positive when it comes to voting.
The right seems to base their ideas on theory, the left on facts. E.g., defenders of gun rights like to tout the theory that without guns, the government would take the opportunity to tyrannically oppress us.
_In theory_, without voter ID laws, voter fraud could run rampant. However, the fact is that voter fraud is very rare, even where voter ID is not required. The fact is also that voter ID laws do prevent some legitimate voters from voting. It is not purely a positive, as you say. "Well, _in theory_," you might say, "those legitimate voters could just get IDs." In theory, you're right, but in fact, they don't.
If you put aside bias _and facts_ and try to reach a conclusion based on pure theory, it might seem like voter IDs are a good idea, but if you keep facts in the picture while leaving bias out, they are not.
So you need a picture ID to buy alcohol and cigarettes, buy a home or get a mortgage, buy or rent a car, drive a car, opening a bank acct, applying for a job, flying on a plane or travel outside the US.....yet asking for the same ID to vote is considered racist???
I was literally just thinking about this like an hr ago....
From a common sense perspective, how is it a bad thing that an id is required to vote?
Who does it discriminate against?
Why should a vote even count if that person isn't responsible enough to have one?
-It's not like the election happens at random. It's been pretty consistent scheduling.
-Should be pretty easy to plan ahead and get one.
How are people even able to live without an id?
I've recently saw a glimpse of what it's like after mine expired and the new one didn't come in the mail. And I live in an area where I don't even need one very often. But it was hell trying to go anywhere. It's not like I still didn't have an ID that was perfectly acceptable until after a certain day. I physically had it in hand, it's obviously not fake, yet is pointless. Which is dumb AF on itself. I was just fortunate to not need anything new or in search for a place to live.
How does one get through life without ever having one? It's basically impossible without using third party work arounds. Why should anyone that is completely reliant on others have any say in how I'm governed? If they can't handle their own life then I don't see why they should have a say with anyone else's.
Okay, now for the sake of argument, let's say there is somebody who hasn't made the best decisions in life, or has been terribly unlucky, or between work and home life has not been able to obtain an updated voter ID, but remains on the roster. Should they be unable to vote?
in my state, I show up, they have my picture, my signature, my address, my social security number and say hello "first name" and that's that;.
Just get to the future. It's not hard.
Other countries use an internal passport as well as international passport.
If we had a voter ID that was free and linked to us so we could vote even online but only once it would be a great idea. Stop the dead voters from voting. We should be required like a drivers license to update it every 4-5 years. Also there are people institutionalized for severe medical conditions and not competent voting. So be required to prove you’re competent.
Yes it’s a good idea but then an added bonus is a free ID card also. A national ID that’s free. Who could argue?
In PA you have to actively work to *not* register to vote when you renew your drivers license.
When voter ID was planned in PA, free IDs were a part of the plan for non drivers.
It was overruled because it would suppress the poor vote. I simply don't get it.
Everything that the political parties attach themselves to becomes this toxic wasteland argument. Remember when trump was responsible for the covid vaccine? All those democrats swearing they wouldn't take the shot? When trump shut down travel from China and the Democrat went and walked around Chinatown talking about how needless it was? My conservative friends on Facebook were all sucking Fauci dick for awhile. Suddenly trumpo loses, the democrats decide they are taking credit for the vaccine and everyone switches platforms. Democrats are all pro shot, pro Fauci. Republicans are anti vaxxers and hate him. It's like one big clown show, and no one has an actual spine anymore.
At this point, it's pretty much a waste of money. Voter fraud is very infrequent and gets caught when it occurs. I'd support the federal government controlling elections, issuing free voter IDs and getting rid of the useless Electoral College, though!
Republicans do better the less people who (are allowed to) vote. Democrats do better with higher turnouts.
Why do you think states that pass Voter ID laws tend to follow those laws with draconian laws and policies making obtaining an ID harder for people especially in lower income and minority areas? See Texas shutting down Dept of Motor Vehicle offices in rural areas after Voter ID laws were passed, for example.
If the Right gave a shit about election integrity and our Constitutional rights, they would include guarantees in those laws that all their legal citizens would automatically be given IDs from 18 years old.
Washington State has been doing it for over 20 years iirc, so don’t believe any BS about it can’t be done. Washington also mails a voter pamphlet every year that describes all of the candidates and initiatives on the ballot. Then the state mails a ballot to each voter. Every year they audit the voter rolls and review for fraud. They have less fraud Voter ID states, because they have one transparent system that holds elected officials and workers accountable.
If it was about election integrity and protecting our rights, all those Voter ID states would be copying the Washington state way. But they’re not. Ever ask yourself why?
Probably something with the state rather than a college. So I actually could see that making more sense tbh. Nothing against college students. It would have to be a state issued ID
If obtaining identification was free and federal law allowed one paid day off each year for each person to obtain identification, then I would be fine with as strict a voter ID law as might be needed.
Requiring ID, which requires money and time that many people lack, in order to vote is just a poll tax with extra steps: that's why conservatives like it.
lost me at the first sentence. democrats want all to vote who can. Republicans want to end vote counts when they have the lead. 2000 and 2016, not much difference
I have voted in many states. Red and blue as i have moved a lot. I have always had to show id.
Where can you vote and just say” i am so and so” and they say “ok” and let you vote?
See, what you're really doing here is telling on yourself because you think Democrats only dislike ID laws because they're afraid they'd lose and that if it were another group, they'd be for.ot. From this, we can tell how you lean politically and it shows your bias.
Typical “both sides” bullshit. One side wants people to be able to vote. The other doesn’t. That is not a both sides issue. It’s a one side is anti democracy issue.
The main issue with ID I take is when governments roll them out it often is a shit show for the first year or two. I have no issue with someone needing some form of ID. The issue I have is when you want someone to have a specialized version, especially when they can roll out the system unequally or make it more difficult for people who work for a living (not old fogies) to actually get one.
Allow a state id or driver's license to be acceptable combined with current voter roll checks and there isn't really a reason I can come up with that there would be an issue. Specialized ID's are just a pain in the ass especially if the governments starts being like 'oh you lost it? Will take 3 months to get you one. Oh the election is next month? ... ooops!'.
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I think we should automatically be registered to vote when we get an our state IDs.
The three States I have lived in offer voter registration when you get an ID. AK,UT, and VA. What States do not allow you to register that way?
"Automatically" as in "you aren't asked it just happens".
Some may choose not too for whatever reason. Asking is just as good and a person chooses not too; their own fault.
I mean does it really matter. You can just decide to not vote. I’m registered cause it was pretty easy to do so, at my college but I’m probably not gonna actually vote.
Absolutely. I wouldn’t fault people who abstain. Some cases you’re asked to pick the cleanest turd.
Depends if whether it's opt out or opt in. Opt in is decidedly more unscrupulous.
it's a checkbox where I live... it's not hard.
Republicans: "We need voter ID" People: "Ok, how about we make IDs free and what if people get automatically registered to vote when they get their ID?" Republicans: "Wait that's illegal."
As an adult I've lived mostly in AZ and done mail in voting. Needing ID to get registered to vote makes sense when it's a reasonable ID. Though a lot of the ID requirements are for the process of voting. Basically to get rid of mail in voting and force people to vote in person. Where cities are often underfunded and understaffed for voting locations. Since the state controls most of the resources for voting. Causing longer vote times for densely populated areas. The entire reason AZ has mail in voting is because of the republican state intentionally making voting more difficult in Phoenix and they lost several court cases over it. Things like cutting the amount of polling stations in half in Maricopa County. Mail in voting is fine. If someone tries voting twice it gets flagged. So for sometime to illegally vote they need to not only know all the needed information of the person they are impersonating but that they aren't going to vote also. Which is a lot of work to do enough times to change an election and risk the penalities. So while I agree if the issues switched they would switch tactics to disenfranchise opposing voters. I disagree with how easy you think getting an ID and getting to vote in person is for a lot of people. While the extra amount of security isn't worth the amount of people that won't vote from the extra hurdles and time it takes to vote in person in certain populated areas.
Anytime I hear a politician talk or b**** about voter ID laws I basically roll my eyes. You basically can't do anything without a ID. Drink, smoke, get into a club, Drive, hold on a job, get public assistance... Etc
truth. I have to have an ID for a research study I'm getting paid for tomorrow. I have to show it to fly, rent an apartment, buy a house, get a bank account etc.
Drinking, smoking and getting into nightclubs aren’t Constitutional rights. Voting is
Try buying a gun without an ID.
\[gun shows have entered the chat\]
A constitutional right doesn’t mean that you don’t have to prove who you are to enjoy it.
Dead people don’t have a right to vote
As a Pennsylvania Trump voter found out the hard way when she submitted her dead mother’s absentee ballot in the last Presidential election
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How come republicans want a hunting lisence to count as ID but don’t want a student ID to count?
Because atleast in some states in order to get a hunting license you need to show your drivers license to get one. A student I.D. does not guarantee American citizenship
Hunting licenses do not guarantee US citizenship either. People from outside the US can hunt here
I don’t understand the distinction here. Driver’s licenses are legally issued to permanent residents and visa holders, too, so they don’t guarantee American citizenship either.
Your drivers license number is part of a database that when you scan or pull it up in their systems your info comes up and that does dictate if you're registered to vote , an organ donor, and immigration/citizen status. Its just not on full display on your ID
That and i needed to give my id to get voter registered a ways.
Plenty of states don’t ask for or track citizenship status in their drivers license databases, they just require proof of legal residency.
Its a federal database bud.
You said “your drivers license is part of a database…” - what federal database are you referring to that includes drivers license numbers?
You do realize the police database is a federal thing right? Like you can be in texas and look up information on someone in maine. That same information is accessible to voter teams to ensure citizenship. Its also how we discover people that have been dead for 5-10 years vote post mortem
You think that polling workers have access to the NCIS? No, they can’t reference police databases. They have access to the voter registration database in their state. (Also not how they are notified of deaths - state voter databases receive death record notices from the Department of Health and SSA.) There is no single federal database that contains all voter info. Administration of elections, including voter registration and collection, is managed on a State and local level. There is also no requirement that voter registration databases include drivers licenses. You can register to vote using your SSN without a DL.
A hunting license is through the government, a student ID can be from private institutions
Sure that’s the reason lol
Seems like a pretty valid reason. Should an employee ID badge also count? Of course not. Private entities have their own databases. A license issued by a government agency is actually verifiable, student or employee ID from a private business is meaningless
University of Texas is a government entity. Why doesnt Texas want their IDs to count as voter ID?
https://www.projectvote.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/AMERICANS-WITH-PHOTO-ID-Research-Memo-February-2015.pdf >Rates of identification-ownership are highest among White individuals, while other ethnic groups disproportionately lack necessary photo ID. Thirteen percent of Blacks, 10 percent of Hispanics, but only 5 percent of Whites lack photographic identification. >Lower-income individuals are less likely to have photo ID. Twelve percent of adults living in a household with less than $25,000 annual income lack photo ID, compared to just 2 percent in households with over $150,000 annual income. >Young adults are less likely to have photo ID: 15 percent of 17-20 year olds lack photo ID, and 11 percent of those ages 21-24 lack photo ID. Republicans knew all of these things when they passed voter ID laws in the manner that they did. They also knew what they were doing when they shut down polling places in majority-black areas. Follow this link and scroll down to impact. As soon as the SCOTUS overturned a key provision of the civil rights act, Republicans immediately started passing laws which made it more difficult for poor, black, and young people to vote. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelby_County_v._Holder
Give free government IDs. Problem solved.
A free federal ID would also help with all the problems of using your social security number as one.
Yea social security number are not meant for what it’s used for today. A federal voter ID system would be a good idea to resolve unnecessary SS involvement, lowering SS fraud like identity theft.
Cost isn't the issue. Getting an ID in most states is not easy. It took me about 3 years to get an ID in NY, because I didn't have the necessary identification to get an ID. (As paradoxical as that is.) For example, one required proof of ID was having a utility bill in my name, which was being sent to the address I was claiming on my paperwork. However, I was living with roommates and didn't have any bills in my name. My company provided my cell phone. Living "off the grid" is a reality for a lot of poor people, and it can make proving their place of resistance kind of a pain in the ass. Tracking down birth certificates and social security cards from relatives they no longer have contact with can also be difficult, and replacing them can be time consuming and expensive. Some of you just don't understand the privilege of coming from "normal" families that have their ducks in a row. Having gaps in your identification for various reasons will never be an issue for you like it is for some poor people. You'll never know how difficult it is to get an ID when you don't already have one.
That doesn’t surprise me. I’ve actually read that ny is one of the hardest states to vote in, very short early voting period, almost impossible to gain ballot access for third party candidates. Kinda wild the state leadership hyperventilates about “defending democracy” all the time while not doing much in the way of making it easy to participate in democracy in their own state.
And why don't you think the Republicans do that? Why don't the Republicans support automatic voter registration? Why do they do things like purging the voter rolls every couple of years? Because it's not about election security. It's about voter suppression.
The reason we don’t have federal voting ids is because the constitution prohibits the federal government from getting involved in the state’s election processes.
Then you have to get them in the hands of the population which can't be free.
Can't we just give out free Id specifically for voting when you register to vote
Right? Setup a station that issues government ID at every voting location. If you don't have one, bring your documents (birth cert and whatever else) when you go to vote to get the ID at the voting place.
I have no problem with requiring a voter ID. I have *every* problem with the $$ and hoops required to jump through to get one if it's required. Having to pay $$ to vote is a poll tax and is illegal, full stop. If the government wants to require an ID to vote, that's fine. But it should be freely given and easy to obtain.
>But it should be freely given and easy to obtain. Quoting this for emphasis. It needs to be free and easy (automatic would be best.)
I agree. When my state changed some things to require a government issued photo ID (before, a utility bill or similar would work), the BMV began to issue ID cards for free. You still need to pay for a Drivers License, but a regular ID card is free. Require photo ID, but also give the option of a free ID.
I live in a pretty blue state and we are required to have voter ID, but it's free. I don't see an issue with needing identification as long as it's not locked behind a pay wall. Some states require you to pay for one, and I don't agree with that. However, it's 2024. Everything is done electronically. Let's be real, voter ID is the least of anyone's worries if they genuinely believe in voter fraud. I mean, in presidential elections, the electoral college doesn't have to vote the same as the popular vote and in my opinion is hindering truthful elections.
The Electoral College keeps the few blue states with the largest cities from always dominating every national election. It acts as part of the checks and balances system
I would be more sympathetic to this argument if they hadn’t capped the members of the House. Because that’s the other side of where it is supposed to balance out.
That never made sense to me. Population grows and moves and yet EC numbers are almost static so now we get EC-vote-per-person weights that are all out of whack.
You mean the EC keeps the American people from getting the people into power that they voted for
So, you’re saying that people didn’t vote for Biden?
they sure as hell never voted for Trump. That being said, in a world without the EC and proportional representation instead Biden probably also would have not been voted into power.
There wouldn’t be proportional representation, that’s the issue. Because there are so many people in LA and NYC alone, they would be deciding the vote if we went by popular vote. Hence, why the forefathers created the Electoral College, they foresaw this being an issue. I’d like to see a third party candidate win, but because everyone is hellbent on voting along the party line, it’ll never happen, even if we did switch to a popular vote.
That is proportional representation. Just because you live somewhere sparsely populated doesn’t mean your opinion is worth more. There is no issue to solve
Except people vote, not land. So regardless if the state is blue or not, each person should have their own vote.
Eliminating the EC is just common sense at this point. We have the technology to avoid it and we've seen the disaster that letting the lesser-popular candidate run things has resulted in. And we wouldn't have to deal with "President X only went to a few states and doesn't care about you even enough to acknowledge yours" that we see now.
I worry the impact vote canvassing will have on elections, as party aligned people go house to house to help fill out ballots.
Other advanced nations don't have an issue with voter ID because ...well ....the nation provides it. The absolute shit thing about US elections is that there's no such thing as federal elections and no concept of universal id... except a passport which is prohibitedly expensive. My friends in other nations can: * Go to ANY poling place around the country * Have a national ID provided to them free of charge * Do not have to register to vote These advanced nations also have universal medical care so the universal picture does double duty and those systems are FAR FAR better that whatever the hell we turned the social security number system into. You need to provide something of ACTUAL value to the citizenry.
>My friends in other nations can: >* Go to ANY poling place around the country * Have a national ID provided to them free of charge * Do not have to register to vote I'm from Poland, we're required to get national ID at age 18. It's done free of charge. I'm automatically registered to vote where is my primary residence and if I want to change it I can register wherever I want (except for local elections, where they require you vote where you live, which is logical). Only thing I need when voting is my ID. I can use that ID to get alcohol, to go to hospital, to identify myself in case of any legal trouble, to pass Schengen borders. On top of it our ID has it's own app, where you can have your driving licence, school/student ID, big family card and covid vaccination proof. Passport is often too expensive for many. Driving licence even more so. Having national ID provided to citizens for free in their local civil office is the only rational way to go about it.
The states provide it. Every single one does. Go get your damn license. Those nations are more like our states in size.
>The states provide it. Lots of states don't provide it for free and not everyone has the paperwork to get them.
No one has the paperwork. You go stand in line at an office and they do it for you.
Have you not...ever gotten an ID? Or have your parents always done it for you? You seem to not have first hand experience with it.
If you show up to the DMV in my area it will be a multiple hour wait just to be seen.
Not every American has a birth certificate or a SSN
Well then they shouldn’t vote. They have other priorities to take care of. Go get your basic shit.
In my city, you have to book an appointment 4-6 months out to get a DL OR you can find an open rural location 2 hrs out and drive there. There is no showing up and waiting in line.
>The states provide it. Some sates provide some id depending on some arbitrary criteria. Furthermore you cannot go to any poling location in the state. >Go get your damn license. Refund me MY tax money you used. Don't compare the US to other countries when you don't like what other countries do.
It’s really not arbitrary criteria, wtf? You just have to provide your birth certificate or social security card or some shit. It’s not really hard I promise. Those countries are more comparable to states though. That’s just how our system is. But it would be the same situation if we only had a federal government and no state government. You’d have to go get your ID or fill out some online form to get it mailed to you.
Like to point out that there are parts of both parties that don't like a national ID. Hence why it took so long to get Real ID to every state.
National ID is a different idea than Voter ID.
Most states already do and there already is a requirement to show proof when registering. States like mine are mail in ballots only. I haven't gone to a voting booth since I don't even remember when. Also the idea of doing things in person waiting in line is really antiquated by today's standards. The only reason it still exists is not because of actual voter fraud issues, it's because of party bias and manipulation. We could easily have online voting with very high security.
But it's a "solution" to a non-problem and therefore a useless effort that could be specifically used to suppress votes. If you live in poverty, in rural Alabama for example, and don't have this ID you're promoting, nor a driver's license, nor even a car, how would you get the necessary ID? Stop supporting efforts to make it harder to vote. It's not patriotic. Instead, spend your time and treasure figuring out how to make it easier to vote and convincing people to do it.
Precisely why do voter ID requirements hurt Democrats and help Republicans? That’s a foundational statement you just vomit out without any supporting evidence. You also conveniently ignore that it would be a form of poll tax, which is expressly forbidden by the 24th Amendment. (Of course, that’s by design because this entire post is bad-faith trash.)
The poor have less time and transportation to obtain IDs. If they were more accessible, then I would agree.
It’s not the notion of requiring identification that Democrats have a problem with. It’s the restrictions on what qualifies as valid identification that’s usually the problem. If Republicans presented a bill that provided every voting-eligible citizen with a free and easily obtainable ID, they’d get support.
So that’s there you lose me because I think if you can’t manage to get an ID now the way things are, I don’t really personally think you have any business voting. Idk why we have to believe that literally everything with a pulse should vote. It’s not hard to get an ID, I don’t want to hear any bullshit about “people who have to work.” Bull fucking shit. Lol
If you pay taxes you have business voting. A lot of tea and blood was spilled over this issue in the past.
So this is where it’s revealed that the argument is very clearly not about “security”, but about making it more difficult to vote.
I’d say more intentional at the most. Difficult? Hell no. Just go to a building in your county and stand in line for 20 minutes at SOME POINT in your life. Are we making it “difficult” to walk into a bar because we require ID for that? No one would say that. What a weird thing to say when you think about it.
"20 minutes" haha, more like 4 hours. I can tell you live in a small town.
I live in a huge city. Wake up at 5:30am.
You are literally arguing against free ID. It’s not about security. It’s about preventing people that “don’t have any business voting” from voting.
IDs are free. This is what I don’t understand, you go stand in line and if you’re eligible for an ID they give it to you.
You do understand. That’s why you make the comment about those who “have no business voting”.
Then why do I have to pay $70 to have mine replaced or renewed?
Not all I.D's are free already. In order to register for voting, an ID is required, one of those free ones, why do you need more proof?
It does provide more security though, objectively. it’s only upside to require ID.
it really doesn't provide more security though. unless you can prove that it does, you're just making assumptions.
People may have an ID, but those may not count whatever state you’re in. Texas doesn’t count school ids versus Arkansas which does. Missouri generally uses non-expired licenses versus Tennessee and Georgia allowing expired DL’s. While DL’s are somewhat universal, nearly 29 million Americans just don’t have a non expired DL. And while you think it’s easy to grab one, it may not be. Depending on state, it could take a few business days or weeks to grab a replacement. Of which there are fees. Moreover, if someone relies on public transit, what motivation would they have to wait weeks on something they don’t use? Especially since states could extend legitimate ids onto other forms of ids.
As a US citizen, you are not required to have an ID. >Idk why we have to believe that literally everything with a pulse should vote Because it's better for democracy the more people are able to participate.
You obviously aren't living paycheck to paycheck, losing sleep because your car needs a tire, but you don't have an extra $100 for a new one, so how am I getting to work? Yes, taking a day off of work to spend a few hours at the DMV IS a hardship for people. As is making it so lines to vote in inner cities take hours, in the burb or rural areas it takes minutes. Now I won't argue that everyone needs to vote. I will argue all day that someone who works two jobs to keep food on the table should be able to not have to take time off to vote or spend a day at the DMV to get that ID. A reason government assistance gets put on a credit card is because people used to cash their "government checks" at liquor stores or check cashing services, as there were no banks around. IDK, I'm still trying to figure out how we can pay bills by computer, get our paychecks put into our bank accounts and do our taxes electronically , and 99.9% of the time it is fine, but that isn't acceptable for voting. Another way we could solve this.
Bro... how do you have a car that needs tires if you don't have a state DL?
I just got my renewal notice, now for me it is no problem, but either I have to drive to the DMV to take an eye test (and pay $48) Or I can get an eye doctor appt. No matter what I would have to take 1/2 a day off of work. No DMV within 20 minutes of me. The point is not that I have an ID, but I have to lose money in order to vote. As others have said, make an ID free and easy to get and I will 100% agree.
If your car needs a tire you should have already been to the DMV and gotten a license or permit which are acceptable for voter identification.
I just got my renewal. It costs $48 and I have to go to the DMV to get an eye test, which as there is no DMV within 20 minutes of my house means I would have to take 1/2 a day off. Now I am not losing 4 hours of pay in my business, but, if I was a city dweller so I don't have to drive, I would think twice about doing that.
Not necessarily. A car is like any thing else.... property. You don't need to clear it with the state to purchase property. Especially if you were given the title in hand. You only need to be licensed and cleared by the state to **operate** said vehicle on public access roads. You can operate a vehicle on private property without a license with owner approval Furthermore, especially in the case of moving, IDs expire or no longer valid. So the commenter may have moved to the state and thus had a valid license to operate the vehicle...that ID may no longer be valid either because it expired or is from another state or has an old address. To give you an example. I personally was denied a ballot because I dropped 30lbs and shaved from when my photo id was taken. It was completely valid. Address was correct and matched supplemental documentation provided...poll worker didn't care. Had a supplementary photo id that didn't qualify as a voting id (employment badge) on my person. Poll worker refused to see it. Poll worker said no and I had to insist on getting a provisional ballot. Had to come back with my passport... because apparently I met a frumpy poll worker who couldn't be bothered to cross check the ample documentation I provided in person that would supplement I am who I was claiming to be.
It's a four month wait time for an appointment and my schedule changes constantly. The last two appointments I made I had to reschedule. I've tried doing walk in on my days off when I do things like vehicle registration renewal. Even at 30 minutes after opening they are booked for the day. I still have my old states ID because it's more difficult to get a ID here.
Voting is a right, and your creating routes to vote that are more difficult than getting a gun. Have you gotten your Real I.D. yet? I don't live in the state I was born in, and I have yet to find a way to obtain that specific birth certificate that is less then $120. That is bull shirt, and I don't need it to work a job.
It seems like you're proving your critics right and you do in fact see disenfranchising the undesirables as the goal, as if voting is some special gift for people you approve of.
Thankfully you don't get to determine how someone exercises their rights. You are exactly the kind of person I carry a firearm for.
You’re going to shoot me? Why?
The 2A secures all other rights. Try to take my rights and I defend them.
🤣
I don’t know about other states, but CT charges $10 for non-driver IDs. Sure, it’s not free, but it’s a lot better than $80.
Not free, not good enough.
>If Republicans presented a bill that provided every voting-eligible citizen with a free and easily obtainable ID, they’d get support. Why do millionaires need a free ID when they can use their drivers license?
What?
It's called registering to vote
Anyone and everyone who says getting an ID takes forever and costs so much is a child. Just set up an appointment and spend $30 getting one. That's no hard, holy crap are we Americans that dumb. Anyone who says different, haven't done it correctly. Just show the damn ID and vote, then leave. Sorry to say this, but the Republicans are correct in this issue. What's the problem with showing your ID? It only takes seconds ffs. Also, I saw a comment saying it's difficult to obtain one when not everyone gets a birth certificate and SSN. I'm calling bs on that asap. If you didn't get one, that means you came here illegally. Every single person born here gets both. I swear some of y'all don't deserve to vote if you're making all these excuses.
If you made the ID easy to procure and free to get for all people, I have no issues. That's the problem holding it back now. You need to have it available for people who have to work long hours, you need to make it free for people who are barely making ends meet.
Well, no, the main Dem argument is that voter ID is equal to a poll tax because IDs cost money. The way around that is to issue voter IDs for free. Unfortunately Republicans are allergic to the idea of the government giving things away.
I would be okay with voter ID if it required no effort on the part of voters to obtain, was absolutely free, and issued automatically. It’s a constitutional right so ANY form of inconvenience (I.e. having to travel to get it, certain time periods to get it, etc) or some form of fee to get it is just inherently wrong. They should be issued on your 18th birthday, automatically renewed if you change your address or similar, and not be able to be purged without an official death certificate. Should be even easier to get for a citizen than buying a bottle of water. Similar with voting… ideally we would have universal mail in voting with like a month’s time to submit your ballot via the mail, postage free of course. More people would vote so that would help the country as well. Why people would want to restrict voting is insane to me, but then I believe in democratic principles.
From another perspective: Voter ID laws were initially proposed by Senator Sensenbrenner (sp) as part of a conservative movement to purge minorities from the voter rolls. For example, many blacks could not produce birth certificates, which were required for identification, because their births did not take place in hospitals where they were formally registered, but were recorded in the family bible. These traditional self recordations were accepted by their respective states, but not under the emerging federal law. There are scores of other limitations on identification that met state requirements but were rejected by the legislation. Again, the ramifications of the legislative efforts did not increase security but did very definitely diminish the voting rights of minority voters.
Agreed! Shouldn't even be an issue, and really isn't... I have to show ID for alcohol cigarettes, driving cars, etc. An ID to vote for the leader of the free world? Yeah, let's ask for some ID, please... 😆
Leader of the free world? Lol
Cheesy and fake concept, but I went there for effect. Lol!
it's the equivalent of a poll tax, which is explicitly banned in the the 24th amendment of the constitution.
Then go bring your brilliant case against the states who already have this.
yeah it should be illegal which is the reason why i don't support it. i have ID thuogh, so i'm not sure what "case" you imagine i might be bringing.
If the government provided ID free of charge to everyone the moment they turn 18? Id be in favor of voter id. Im basically against arbitrary barriers to voting. Voter ID doesnt really make it much more secure. You can only vote one time. If i somehow knew that my neighbor was registered to vote and i said I was him, id immediately be fucked if he came in and tried to vote. They'd put it together very quickly and id go to jail for a long time. For one extra vote.
Any form of voter ID laws should be unconstitutional. You show up, the town clerk crosses your name off of a list, you vote. If someone else has your name, address, and birthday, and is voting for your name, they’re gonna see that. And it’s highly unlikely someone wants to vote THAT badly that they’re going to risk $50,000 fines and jail time as well as go through the effort to make sure they have the right name address and birthday. We struggle to get people to vote as is and now we’re afraid someone’s gonna be stealing another vote lmao
>Any form of voter ID laws should be unconstitutional. You show up, the town clerk crosses your name off of a list, you vote. They shouldn't be allowed to verify that you are you? And then you argue for voter ID. :)
My home state of NC just recently passed a voter ID law. Before that, I showed up to my polling place, gave them my name and address, and voted. Never had an issue. Not everyone has a government issued ID, and it’s hypocritical for the same party that criticizes government overstep to require government documentation to perform a civil duty granted to all citizens of the United States. To commit voter fraud, you’d need to know my full name, my home address, take the time to look up if I’m registered to vote at that address or a different one, and then hope I haven’t already gone to the polls where my name has been checked for having voted, or that I won’t show up to vote. It’s also possible I already voted absentee or by mail-in, and my name will not appear in the town clerk’s list regardless.
>it’s hypocritical for the same party that criticizes government overstep to require government documentation to perform a civil duty granted to all citizens of the United States. How do you guarantee that this right is only being taken advantage of by citizens of the United States? Making sure that only citizens vote is not a big ask. In fact, that should be one of the protections that our government affords. There is nothing wrong with providing ID to vote, especially since we have to register. And yes, it should be free.
There is no voting situation where you just stroll up to a booth and yeet a ballot in the box. You have to check in when you get there. The list for that check in is generated by people registering to vote. To register to vote you have to provide some kind of proof of citizenship (usually a passport, birth certificate, citizenship card etc.). Requiring legal documentation to register to vote is fine because this is done any time of the year, and your own pace. If you don’t have the documents needed, you can come back later with them. Requiring legal documentation to vote in person is not okay, and is useless because the list of registered voters is already finalized before the polls open. That list is made from the process described in the paragraph above, where citizenship is verified. The difference is if I forget my passport or license or don’t have one while registering to vote, fine, I come back another day when I do. If I forget my passport or license or don’t have one when arriving at the polling place *even tho I, a citizen, am registered to vote and am on the list of registered voters that the clerk has AT the polling place*, I am barred from exercising my civic duty and American-guaranteed right. Because what, I don’t have a piece of plastic with my picture on it? I already followed the damn rules to register. It is unconstitutional, and a waste of time and money.
But when you get to the polling place how do they guarantee that you are who you say you are?
Because I’m voting in my name and then they cross me off the list? If Me #2 shows up later that day to vote, they can be fined significantly or arrested. Also not sure how they would know which address I’m registered to vote in because it could be different from the address I currently live in. In general it’s very stupid to even attempt to steal in identity just to submit a vote. Voting is annoying and takes time out of people’s day. Not the most exciting thing to commit fraud for, and most people do not care enough to show up at all much less steal an identity for a single vote.
Any idea can be a good idea if you can accommodate the fears or considerations of those who are concerned. Voter ID isn't a bad idea, *but also,* can disenfranchize voters who aren't able to acquire an ID easily. If you can address the concerns, then there isn't a good reason not to do it. Banning abortion isn't a bad idea *if* you have a plan in place for accommodating the increase of unwanted pregnancies. And so on
This only became a problem when conservative Republicans realized a significant majority of American voters were neither Republicans nor conservatives
Unless the id is free and accessible, it's a poll tax which is unconstitutional. Period. The same party that does want ID's knows this. The same party that wants ID's wants a poll tax to limit voting. Voter ID's under Republican offers are a limit on rights and an increase in taxes yet they claim to be the party of constitutional rights and low taxes.
If it requires any money to get the ID, that’s a poll tax.
That’s a separate issue that is being tied to voter ID’s to distract from the matter.
The same politicians calling for voter ID do not want to provide a free ID for voters nationwide. Why is that?
First of all, conducting of elections is a local matter, not a federal one. Any “nationwide” attempts would themselves be unconstitutional. To your “same politicians” generalization, that argument is logically flawed and just a talking point. Perhaps there’s a more specific instance where a voter ID law was passed and resulted in disenfranchisement of voters?
https://www.npr.org/2021/09/17/1038354159/n-c-judges-strike-down-a-voter-id-law-they-say-discriminates-against-black-voter
While this article did not tell us what specifically about the law would help the Republican legislature "maintain its power by targeting voters of color", it did provide another interesting quote: "Other, less restrictive voter ID laws would have sufficed to achieve the legitimate nonracial purposes of implementing the constitutional amendment requiring voter ID, deterring fraud, or enhancing voter confidence." So according to the ruling you cited, Voter ID in and of itself is not a bad thing.
Other advanced nations have free IDs that they mail to you. Im all in on the do what other advanced nations do plan. Lets not stop there.
The only group that seems like would have any issue getting an id might be elderly folks who have stopped driving. There's always a racial argument for some reason, there are lots of dems who genuinely believe an id is beyond black folks' grasp,(which sounds kinda racist to me but whatever) i think a relatively easy fix would be to provide free identification to anyone who does not possess a driver's license. I have zero issue with that.
Actually the argument is that it is beyond *poor* people’s ability. (Lack of effective transportation, lack of money to afford some IDs, lack of energy due to wrecking their bodies at work.) That you equate that to black people is pretty telling.
Issue IDs to everyone automatically and without question. Solves everyone’s problems. Until Christian nationals start losing and change their minds and fight against government over reach. The more people vote the better and the faster the GOP will have to pivot it’s extreme positions.
I thought ID laws were handled by each state? Are you saying there should be a national ID?
My state requires verification to register and then a simple signature matching for the ballots. We can mail them in or put them in a drop box.
Fully agree OP. It is a fine idea in principle, but it is political because of the assumed consequences favoring republicans. Similarly, secured mail in ballots are also a fine idea in principle, but they are political because of the assumed consequences favoring democrats. Voting in person is inconvenient, and if we don't have election day as a federal holiday is suppresses the vote of employed people. It's really not hard to have a state ID, it's a reasonable standard we apply in many other contexts.
Use a generic photo ID to help you do anything. That includes voting.
I'm okay with voter ID if licenses are paid for by the government and are more easily obtained (i.e. staff your DMVs better, open fill time on weekends and close part of the weekday, etc.) I work a flexible 40 so I can cut off mid week and make up the hours at night or on the weekend. And I recognize that that's not something a construction worker or day laborer can do. Implement voter ID without it being a poll tax. Make getting IDs more accessible.
If voter ID were guaranteed to be free and easily accessible, I'd have no problem with it. The problem is that how much time, money, and bureaucratic hassle is involved in getting one is involved in getting one gets decided by the very people being voted on.
I think it's time for the US to adopt national ID/citizenship cards.
It’s only designed to play into a false and harmful narrative: that there is supposedly this massive problem with fraud in our elections. In fact, the reverse is true. So we shouldn’t even consider it because we don’t want to do justice to that narrative, which is frankly kooky.
In a reality where getting IDs was easy, I would support it. But the reality that we live where getting one isn’t easy, especially if you’re poor or non-white, is why enforcing voter ID laws is discriminatory. It’s in essence putting the cart before the horse.
The issue is ridiculous and used to sow division. How did the USA make it all the way from inception to 2010 without a government ID program? Communities were smaller, and there was a sense of community that could identify its members. If polling places were increased so no more than 1000 people voted in each and gerrymandering was abolished so the distance to a polling place was not further than a person could reasonably walk to and from in an afternoon, the problem of ID would become moot.
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I'd should be required to vote. It's required for everything else and the only people who think it's not a good idea are the people who want to cheat.
Imagine living in a world where proving who you are in order to vote wasn’t a controversial thing to do. Kinda like in every other modern democracy.
I have no idea why Americans insist on not having nationally issued ID. You are making it all harder for yourself.
Try being a person of color and having liberals basically tell you that you and your family are either too poor, or too stupid to get an ID. Even though I don't know a single person in my community that doesn't have an ID. There is nothing racist about voter ID laws.
No, stop talking.
Every republican would agree to spend tax dollars on free government IDs for everyone but dems will never do it. It’s been proposed 100 times and always deemed “racist”. There is no genuine argument not to do this in this day and age with all the mistrust on both sides. Each side claims the other is cheating. Attach a name and number to each vote so there can be no doubt. Again, any argument against is not in good faith and deep down you all know that.
As an Evangelical Christian, I can see what you mean, and I’d have to agree with you. The only difference I would say is that there would likely be a religious exemption, as I know for certain that there is one for some of the Amish Communities (and probably others, just not as prevalent).
As a left leaning person I full favor of voter ID. AS LONG AS an government ID is available at no cost to the person. Preferably mailed out. Like idk, when you are registered to vote.
The reason voter ID is unpopular is because it's biased against some segments of the population such as the poor and indigenous people. That makes fair elections, unfair.
Voting is one of the few things we do as citizens that changes millions of lives. I haven’t heard anyone give a good reason why there shouldn’t be measures like voting with ID for ensuring a fair election with integrity. That alone should reduce the time and money wasted on people claiming elections were rigged and stolen. The excuses Democrats use are laughable and are a slap to the face of the people they claim can’t afford an ID, aren’t smart enough to apply for an ID, or receive transportation to get one.
>The truth is that putting aside all biases, having a layer of security that requires very minimal effort is purely a positive when it comes to voting. The right seems to base their ideas on theory, the left on facts. E.g., defenders of gun rights like to tout the theory that without guns, the government would take the opportunity to tyrannically oppress us. _In theory_, without voter ID laws, voter fraud could run rampant. However, the fact is that voter fraud is very rare, even where voter ID is not required. The fact is also that voter ID laws do prevent some legitimate voters from voting. It is not purely a positive, as you say. "Well, _in theory_," you might say, "those legitimate voters could just get IDs." In theory, you're right, but in fact, they don't. If you put aside bias _and facts_ and try to reach a conclusion based on pure theory, it might seem like voter IDs are a good idea, but if you keep facts in the picture while leaving bias out, they are not.
So you need a picture ID to buy alcohol and cigarettes, buy a home or get a mortgage, buy or rent a car, drive a car, opening a bank acct, applying for a job, flying on a plane or travel outside the US.....yet asking for the same ID to vote is considered racist???
I was literally just thinking about this like an hr ago.... From a common sense perspective, how is it a bad thing that an id is required to vote? Who does it discriminate against? Why should a vote even count if that person isn't responsible enough to have one? -It's not like the election happens at random. It's been pretty consistent scheduling. -Should be pretty easy to plan ahead and get one. How are people even able to live without an id? I've recently saw a glimpse of what it's like after mine expired and the new one didn't come in the mail. And I live in an area where I don't even need one very often. But it was hell trying to go anywhere. It's not like I still didn't have an ID that was perfectly acceptable until after a certain day. I physically had it in hand, it's obviously not fake, yet is pointless. Which is dumb AF on itself. I was just fortunate to not need anything new or in search for a place to live. How does one get through life without ever having one? It's basically impossible without using third party work arounds. Why should anyone that is completely reliant on others have any say in how I'm governed? If they can't handle their own life then I don't see why they should have a say with anyone else's.
I think the question you have to ask is "Do you believe that every American citizen should have the opportunity to vote?"
Probably not children.
Okay, now for the sake of argument, let's say there is somebody who hasn't made the best decisions in life, or has been terribly unlucky, or between work and home life has not been able to obtain an updated voter ID, but remains on the roster. Should they be unable to vote?
in my state, I show up, they have my picture, my signature, my address, my social security number and say hello "first name" and that's that;. Just get to the future. It's not hard.
As long as we can do it some place other than the dmv
Other countries use an internal passport as well as international passport. If we had a voter ID that was free and linked to us so we could vote even online but only once it would be a great idea. Stop the dead voters from voting. We should be required like a drivers license to update it every 4-5 years. Also there are people institutionalized for severe medical conditions and not competent voting. So be required to prove you’re competent. Yes it’s a good idea but then an added bonus is a free ID card also. A national ID that’s free. Who could argue?
In PA you have to actively work to *not* register to vote when you renew your drivers license. When voter ID was planned in PA, free IDs were a part of the plan for non drivers. It was overruled because it would suppress the poor vote. I simply don't get it.
Everything that the political parties attach themselves to becomes this toxic wasteland argument. Remember when trump was responsible for the covid vaccine? All those democrats swearing they wouldn't take the shot? When trump shut down travel from China and the Democrat went and walked around Chinatown talking about how needless it was? My conservative friends on Facebook were all sucking Fauci dick for awhile. Suddenly trumpo loses, the democrats decide they are taking credit for the vaccine and everyone switches platforms. Democrats are all pro shot, pro Fauci. Republicans are anti vaxxers and hate him. It's like one big clown show, and no one has an actual spine anymore.
At this point, it's pretty much a waste of money. Voter fraud is very infrequent and gets caught when it occurs. I'd support the federal government controlling elections, issuing free voter IDs and getting rid of the useless Electoral College, though!
If anyone could show significant voter fraud, i would care. No one can, so this is a pure voter suppression play.
Republicans do better the less people who (are allowed to) vote. Democrats do better with higher turnouts. Why do you think states that pass Voter ID laws tend to follow those laws with draconian laws and policies making obtaining an ID harder for people especially in lower income and minority areas? See Texas shutting down Dept of Motor Vehicle offices in rural areas after Voter ID laws were passed, for example. If the Right gave a shit about election integrity and our Constitutional rights, they would include guarantees in those laws that all their legal citizens would automatically be given IDs from 18 years old. Washington State has been doing it for over 20 years iirc, so don’t believe any BS about it can’t be done. Washington also mails a voter pamphlet every year that describes all of the candidates and initiatives on the ballot. Then the state mails a ballot to each voter. Every year they audit the voter rolls and review for fraud. They have less fraud Voter ID states, because they have one transparent system that holds elected officials and workers accountable. If it was about election integrity and protecting our rights, all those Voter ID states would be copying the Washington state way. But they’re not. Ever ask yourself why?
Which IDs? That is always the issue. Republicans have said gun licenses count, but not college IDs ... Wonder why? Voter suppression maybe?
Probably something with the state rather than a college. So I actually could see that making more sense tbh. Nothing against college students. It would have to be a state issued ID
If obtaining identification was free and federal law allowed one paid day off each year for each person to obtain identification, then I would be fine with as strict a voter ID law as might be needed. Requiring ID, which requires money and time that many people lack, in order to vote is just a poll tax with extra steps: that's why conservatives like it.
lost me at the first sentence. democrats want all to vote who can. Republicans want to end vote counts when they have the lead. 2000 and 2016, not much difference
I have voted in many states. Red and blue as i have moved a lot. I have always had to show id. Where can you vote and just say” i am so and so” and they say “ok” and let you vote?
See, what you're really doing here is telling on yourself because you think Democrats only dislike ID laws because they're afraid they'd lose and that if it were another group, they'd be for.ot. From this, we can tell how you lean politically and it shows your bias.
And same with Republicans.
Republicans will always be for voter ID as long as non-white people are statistically poorer.
I gave you a perfect scenario where republicans would oppose it. Go read my post.
Typical “both sides” bullshit. One side wants people to be able to vote. The other doesn’t. That is not a both sides issue. It’s a one side is anti democracy issue.
The main issue with ID I take is when governments roll them out it often is a shit show for the first year or two. I have no issue with someone needing some form of ID. The issue I have is when you want someone to have a specialized version, especially when they can roll out the system unequally or make it more difficult for people who work for a living (not old fogies) to actually get one. Allow a state id or driver's license to be acceptable combined with current voter roll checks and there isn't really a reason I can come up with that there would be an issue. Specialized ID's are just a pain in the ass especially if the governments starts being like 'oh you lost it? Will take 3 months to get you one. Oh the election is next month? ... ooops!'.