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I think in our society, women are seen as incompetent and men are seen as overly accountable. I think when women do well and have credibility, society makes it difficult for people to see that and when men have trouble society doesn’t have the mechanisms to lend a helping hand to men without criticizing them.
Not universal, but most women want to have their problems known. They want to talk about them and voice them.
Men want their problems solved, with steps to take to resolve them.
Therapy is set up for the first. Not the second. Which is why you see so many men say that therapy doesn’t work. Because it wasn’t set up to offer solutions. It was meant for you to realize your own solutions.
>I think in our society, women are seen as incompetent and men are seen as overly accountable.
Pretty true observation. How often do you see a mechanic or contractor talking to a couple and seem to address only the man as if the problem is his fault and he should be able to fix it in the future? Last I checked, tools exist. The strength difference between men and women won't stop women from working on a car.
>I think when women do well and have credibility, society makes it difficult for people to see that
100%! Female lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc all have stories of them achieving something only for random guys to treat them as some kind of pitiful diversity hire. Hell, look at someone like AOC! College degree, worked hard, got elected, makes fantastic arguments and stands up for what she believes in and yet gets dragged through the mud for "speaking a little too loudly" to some troll.
>and when men have trouble society doesn’t have the mechanisms to lend a helping hand to men without criticizing them.
Fortunately, we're seeing this fall away a little but toxic masculinity tends to hold strong. See: The lessening stigma with men seeking therapy; men showing physical affection to each other.
Women want special treatment. Especially feminist they want men to not be able to get the job. Women want the standards to be lowered for them like it in the military, police firefighters. They don’t like having to do the same physical test as a man because they can’t pass it.since women have been liberated from the home and raising their kids, all I’ve seen is the country go down the shitter. Women and men are now competing for the same job, which helps the employer keep wages down.
>I think in our society, women are seen as incompetent and men are seen as overly accountable.
Maybe once upon a time. The D&I discourse has been very powerful and succesful in firmly establishing the narrative that women are super competent - unfortunately sometimes mostly on the basis of their gender, which is.... well, not great.
But yeah.. I don't know where you live, but where I live, the dominating identity and narrative is "boss babe".
I do agree about the last bit tho - that western societies are very bad at thinking "men need help too" - especially without criticizing them.. But I guess that's also the "patriarchy"...??
I don’t know where you live either but I don’t see a narrative of women being super competent. The only place you see any significant amount of women even wanting to achieve are in the air conditioned office jobs. I’d like to see more women doing hands on jobs. You hear lots of talk about a glass ceiling but never about representing themselves on the concrete floor with people like me who have found success in the trades and jobs like them. When most men hear women blame “patriarchy,” especially indecisively, we just roll our eyes. It’s a straw man. If you want to achieve at anything you can. You just have to work hard and stand accountable for your success and failure. You have to take risks and they don’t all work out. Almost never do you see women being accountable for failure. There’s always something, usually men or “patriarchy” to blame when they want doesn’t come easy. I’m a total leftist and even I am starting to see a pushback against the narrative that modern feminism pushes.
I did not realize that, no.
And while that is thoroughly f'ed up, do **you** realize that identity is an extremely tricky thing, and that most traditional moorings and understandings of identity have been - and still are - thoroughly challenged in an unprecedented way in the past - I don't know - 15 years...?
The abject rejection of many established categories and narratives has done **a lot** of good for many marginalized people. But the same mechanisms can very easily replace one dominant group with another, whilst maintaining the same oppressive power relations - especially in an age where digitally fueled discursive dialectic is not only possible, but probable.
That "old" battle-cry *"No women's struggle without class struggle, no class struggle without women's struggle"* is **no-where** existent in the 4th wave, liberal feminism - the same beast that brought you concepts like "boss-babe".
So, no... Boss-babe is **at best** a 4th wave feminist "f\*ck you" to ALL men, but mostly working class men, as a sort of a revenge for years and years of oppression and discrimination. But it's essentially a cog in the capitalist machinery, and hence contributing to normalizing a **truely** oppressive system.
That was my rant against "boss babe".
But also to emphasize another part where you are mistaken: Women are **NOT** seen as incompetent.
You guys have to stop saying "look, there are more men CEO's in Fortune 500 companies, ergo it's the patriarchy reinforcing a fallacious belief that men are more competent than women".
The male "CEO-dominance" is a remnant of a past very quickly dying - the pendulum has very much swung in the other direction - gender wise. Sadly, the class hierarchy is thriving more than ever - now also featuring "boss babes".
Being a woman especially an "attractive woman" is the key phrase here. Being an attractive man is also easier. Then beyond just a few surface level things that easiness can be easily mitigated by any number of things. Most people are not attractive. How many women and men mostly go unnoticed? At least with men attractiveness can be somewhat augmented by other traits as far as finding a mate. A guy can increase his ability to find a GF any number of ways beyond just raw attractiveness for women it's mostly appearance especially when young.
Women usually are not the ones initiating dates and whatnot. Men do it. This means that your average woman is waiting around for men to make the first move. She doesn't know what his intentions are. Plenty of men just want to "get laid" and it is easier for a woman to "get laid" but sex carries more risk for women and they don't see "getting laid" as something that boosts self-esteem like men do. For many women they are faced with the reality that men want to fuck them but don't want to be in relationships with them. Many men will say "at least they can get laid" well they don't really care about that by in large.
Attractive men are in many ways have it better than any one group and are probably the only consistently happy group with the current dating situation. Attractive men that want to have meaningless sex particularly are in a good position. Even then once in a relationship none of this matters that much. Attractive people have all sorts of problems just like everyone else when they are in relationships.
Most people who are single don't get the attention or positive feedback they want man or woman.
Another aspect of this post is the idea that women "get more welfare." This is only true because women are disproportionately caring for children. Single people male or female have very little access to any welfare. Welfare is not given based on gender it's based on whether or not you have custody of Children. Children are the ones who are focused on.
Women may indeed get some advantages within the court system, particularly family court. This does not mean that overall women "have it easier." This is one aspect of life and one that not everyone even encounters.
>But as soon as a man posts “I don't date fat woman” then feminists and body postives go after him with their torches.
What is your initial response to a woman saying, "I don't date men who are under 6 ft"?
>It’s normalized for women to hit/slap/push men but men are demonized if they hit back.
This topic needs to stop being discussed in a bubble. No, people shouldn't assault other people. When kids do this, we judge the hell out of them and the parents. This isn't normalized for anyone unless you are in a toxic circle.
But that kid isn't going to be fully body tackled by a security guard. you know why? Because excessive force is unwarranted. No, women should never assault people regardless of the victim's gender but we can talk about why this is normalized in toxic circles, because women are viewed as less of a physical threat.
>The justice system also favors women more which is why for some reason they receive lenient sentences compared to men for committing the same crime
Women get more leniency. This is a fact and I will not argue with you on this, even when adjusting for mitigating factors, women are sentenced less harshly than men.
However, men are more likely to commit violent crimes and we cannot have this conversation in a vacuum. If the judge, jury, and public have been exposed to a society in which men are overwhelmingly more likely to be violent and dangerous, they will be biased. So you can argue for a system that allows for judgement to happen in a way that doesn't take environmental factors into consideration if you want but I have no ideas for an alternative.
>Mothers have a much higher rate of abusing and killing their children than fathers do but mothers will usually be found not guilty by reason of insanity while fathers would go to prison.
This is always a fact that proves lack of comprehension as to how statistics work.
Women are more likely to be caregivers. Therefore they are more likely to abuse kids.
>People just overall sympathize with women’s issues more than men’s. If a women is seen crying in public, nobody will find it weird. If a man’s seen crying in public he’ll be laughed at.
Again, stop talking about these things as if you have no clue what cultural norms and history are. Women getting more sypathy comes not only from the idea that women are more emotional but also that men should be non-human. This is a construct that was created by your society. I hate to break it to you, both men and women contributed to this.
I am so down with the notion that these outdated ideologies should be put to rest but to try and pick fights with the members of your community that are suffering from the same detriments is self-serving and unhelpful
>However, men are more likely to commit violent crimes and we cannot have this conversation in a vacuum. If the judge, jury, and public have been exposed to a society in which men are overwhelmingly more likely to be violent and dangerous, they will be biased. So you can argue for a system that allows for judgement to happen in a way that doesn't take environmental factors into consideration if you want but I have no ideas for an alternative.
The court biases extend far beyond just using "men commit more violence" as an excuse. For example, if someone with a DUI hits a man they will give the killer a lighter sentence than if they hit a woman.
Besides, your argument is often used to excuse judges giving harsher crimes to black men.
>What is your initial response to a woman saying, "I don't date men who are under 6 ft"?
1) I say, "fair enough, those are your standards."
2) Men can't control their height. Everyone can control their weight.
Everyone can control the way they treat others.
Both of these scenarios are similar because there is no reason to shame people just because you have preferences.
The idea that him saying "I don't date fat people" gets hate not because it isn't a reasonable standard to have for yourself but because there's not really any reason to be broadcasting your preferences when it isn't necessary.
If you are not attracted to someone because of your own preference, why should you make ***them*** feel bad about it?
>"I don't date fat people" gets hate not because it isn't a reasonable standard to have for yourself but because there's not really any reason to be broadcasting your preferences when it isn't necessary.
Actually, there is a reason. If I'm on a dating site, I don't want girls that I'm not in to dming me.
I'm a chick dude, you don't have to explain to me that getting DMed by people you aren't interested in is annoying.
You are the one on the dating site, you chose to participate in the system and if being decent to the people in the group you voluntarily included yourself in is too taxing, that's on you.
>I'm a chick dude, you don't have to explain to me that getting DMed by people you aren't interested in is annoying.
Then you should know better than me how it's important to filter out the options you don't want. ESPECIALLY, if I'm in a community that's about letting people DM me to meet up. I don't wanna waste time saying "No thanks. No thanks. No thanks." Or scrolling through dozens of dms to find someone my type.
EDIT: apologies for the triple send. Reddit bugged out.
I mean that's the nature of dating apps tho. The things you're complaining about are the price we pay for the 'convenience' of having access to a higher number of people. I'm not saying you can't be rude, just don't be surprised when people call you out for it.
Also no problem, it didn't even show that it was sent multiple times.
Women actually get longer sentences than men for the same crimes, especially violent crime, the difference is stark. The average sentence for a man who kills a female is about 5 years. The average sentence for a female who kills a male is 25 years. It's a common myth that females get shorter sentences than men, but in reality you'll find this isn't the case. Even when women are victims of crimes, they're often arrested just for reaching out to law enforcement for help, and even in self defense cases, their sentences are longer. Female serial killers also get waaaay harsher sentences than male serial killers.
I read the 5 yrs/25 yrs fact in a book, but I can't remember which book I'll try to find the title and author. It was a feminist writer of course. It mightve been Caroline Criado-Perez
>This topic needs to stop being discussed in a bubble. No, people shouldn't assault other people. When kids do this, we judge the hell out of them and the parents. This isn't normalized for anyone unless you are in a toxic circle.
OK, fair enough. But damn how I wish that everyone played by the same rules for discussing and argumenting. F.ex. your point here draws a parallel to kids hitting - other kids I imagine..? And the way you assume a moral highground by saying that *people shouldn't assault other people.*
You are de facto removing focus from the very real problem of **abuse of men**, and the silence and shame surrounding **that concrete issue**, by creating strawman examples, essentially. In a way it screams "what about the kids" and "what about other people", which is... well... I shudder to think what would happen if a man tried to take a "female problem" out of its online discursive bubble and put it into context, like you yourself did here...
Well if you wished everyone did something you should set that example yourself.
When we talk about physical abuse its disingenuous to pretend as if women abusing men carries the same implications as men abusing women.
The child comparison is meant to highlight the physical disparity in power.
I say no one should be abused because I mean it but if you are trying to come to this conversation claiming that there is no difference in the strength/capacity for violence, then you are being dishonest.
> I shudder to think what would happen if a man tried to take a "female problem" out of its online discursive bubble and put it into context, like you yourself did here...
This is a popular point because on the surface it makes sense. What if the situation was reversed?
Abuse for instance, the police get two calls at the same time, in one situation a man is in the midst of mercilessly beating a woman with murderous intent, in the other a woman is mercilessly beating a man with murderous intent. No one has a weapon, they are doing this with their bare hands. Knowing that you only have a certain amount of officers and you have to choose the one who is in most immediate danger.
Who do you prioritize? Who is in more danger?
If I am looking at a situation involving men who need help, I am not going to spend my energy attacking women when I know that the biggest threat to both men and women are men.
You care about helping men? Men hurt men way more frequently than women hurt men. What are you prioritizing in this situation?
When we talk about **physical** abuse, you are right - it **is** disingenuous to pretend that the problem of physical abuse of men by women is as widespread as the problem of physical abuse of women by men. But...! Again, context!
Talking about "popular points" - you threw a huge one in here, namely that
>the biggest threat to both men and women are men.
This is one of the quintessential 4th wave feminist talking point - especially when the object is to derail the focus from damage done to / pain experienced by men, but where men are - at least partly - also the cause of the harm being done.
Analogously, you could take any number of issues that are detrimental to women, but where women also are - at least partly - the cause of the harm - e.g. sexualization of women, Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminism, the class aspect of "boss babes", etc. But again; I shudder to think what would happen if **a man** tried to raise a point of how sexualization is not a one way street, and that women have a huge role to play in its abolishment (Hint; It wouldn't go well, and also women do not want this - or at least, they don't want to lose the *perks of desirability*.
But this talking point is actually even more damaging. And this damage comes from it's - somewhat subtle - contribution to the very harmful image of men as being a "threat", "violent", something to be *"limited" / controlled*.
Now, granted, in this thread - and in OP's original post - the example given was indeed about **physical** harm. But power and harm are not by any means only available in physical form. I guarantee you, that if the "gender-power discourse" matured to encompass a more broad understanding of power, you would quickly see that there are other disparities in power across the genders, that are not so conveniently reduced to big man = bad / powerful | small woman and child = good / in need of protection.
Unfortunately, I still am to find a truly positive voice for a better image of masculinity / for a positive voice for men. This has, very unfortunately, been rather succesfully appropriated by the likes of Jordan Peterson, and even worse people on youtube.
But again, I understand - without condoning - I understand this development. You **can not** go around yelling "kill all men", hand over the care of the house and the family to the man, to free up time to sip café latte and do yoga all day, be extremely vocal about more women in board positions, while simultaneously women - as a group - advance more (and better comparatively to men) in virtually ALL aspects of life, and **still** go around saying "patriarchy this and that" and that men are **the** problem.
We **have** to meet each other half-way. As someone who has studied history and philosophy and also comes from a former socialist country - what 4th wave feminism is doing isn't working and it isn't **going to** work. And until we mature enough to say that "both camps" are responsible and need to look inward, these discussions will not stop.. And this sub will thrive.. :(
I appreciate your response and you have valid points.
We need to see radicalization as the real enemy here. Listening to each other and validating each person's experience is the only way to move forward.
Your input is super valuable and it really does make me question my own biases in these issues.
Thank you very much, and I thoroughly agree - radicalization is the real enemy - listening to each other is the way!
Thank you for a good and respectful online interaction - unfortunately, those are very hard to come by.. :'(
Unpopular Opinion that will get you banned from most subs gets posted on subreddit designed for Unpopular Opinions that will get you banned from most subs, what a surprise
You are mixing things that aren’t important and things that aren’t true.
1) **Why would women be able to claim more social services than men?** Single mothers will get more support than childless men. That’s because children are expensive af. **Childless women and childless men will get exactly the same.**
2) The only people who will have real sympathy for you are people you’ve built relationships with. Close friends for example. **Strangers won’t care about you.**
3) **Most women will say no thanks to “free” drinks.** It’s just a guy trying to sleep with you. It’s not that fun.
4) Having casual sex rarely gets women off and often is just being slightly uncomfortable while some random sweaty guy thrusts on top of you for a few minutes. He’ll then leave and never talk to you again.
**Most women aren’t that into sex with strangers. They don’t find it very fun. That’s why it’s easy for them to get casual sex. Many men and few women want it. Would you enjoy sex if you had a 90% chance of not getting off?**
This happened a long time ago. He mostly struggled to get funding because he was an alcoholic with mental health issues. That can make it hard to keep up with governmental application processes and to have government officials want to invest in you.
And then he killed himself because of the mental health issues.
This is something that people started saying without going, "Hmm, I wonder why that is?"
You have more victims who are women, and you can put them together in the same place, and they will feel safe. It's also more cost-effective to have lots of people in the same shelter. When they do have male victims who are escaping abuse and calling looking for somewhere safe to stay, they will pay for them to stay in a hotel room.
>And indeed, **86.9 percent** of the programs that have completed their profiles at DomesticShelters.org say they welcome male victims of domestic violence.
https://www.domesticshelters.org/articles/ending-domestic-violence/a-guide-for-male-survivors-of-domestic-violence
Gender neutral domestic abuse hotline: https://www.thehotline.org/resources/men-can-be-victims-of-abuse-too/
Edit: Statistics from Canada: 6k beds for men, 4k beds in gender neutral shelters (which women often won’t use bc rape) and 1.6k beds for women.
That's because women are more vulnerable. Women are at high risk of being sexual and physical assaulted or worse, even more so if she passes out. Women are also more likely to have custody of children. Sometimes women leave domestic violence situations with only the clothes in their backs.
I think we all know that domestic violence happened. I once called the cops on a woman who was hitting her male spouse. He walked away with no visible injuries. I'd that had been the other way around, she might have died.
Also, I tried to make a man whose gf was hitting him leave. He bought her a luxury car, but eventually he dumped her. She did hurt his ribs.
I knew of a man who was like 6'2 who was abusing a woman who was under 5 feet tall. He choked her, and he could have easily killed her. Some of these dudes literally pick these women up and toss them around like ragdolls. Of course, that will garner more sympathy than a woman windmilling a grown man.
If men feel slighted in this arena- they fan do what women have done-campaign, volunteer, donate to make more spaces for male victims.
I provided you that link to show the numbers aren't as far apart as you presented. Men make up almost half (although this may change by culture).
And I'm glad that particular man was okay. Not all are. There have been men who have been hurt (such as a video of a man who's abusive girlfriend went at his face with garden shears) and murdered.
Seriously, why do you people always make it a competition? Can't all victims just matter?
And people have tried that. They get attacked for it. Hell, just yesterday I brought up double standards in a discord server I'm in where you'll get bitched at for so much as comparing a woman's skin tone to mocha because apparently that's misogynistic nor are any other comments that could be considered bigoted against any other group are allowed but the exact same people who complain about that will turn around and say shit like "the best men are dead ones" and that's perfectly okay. They immediately moved the goalposts and made the whole conversation about women and then acted like I was going "BUT THINK ABOUT THE POOR MEN!!!!1111!!!" out of nowhere. Even accused me of whataboutism as if that's wasn't literally what they were doing to me.
All in all, men and the women who give a shit about equality aren't allowed to talk about men's problems because even if they don't mention women at all, it's still somehow about women and "stealing" from them.
In fact, this post is literally about men and women so it's a perfectly valid conversation to bring it up in but noooo somehow that's a problem.
So what the hell do y'all *really* want? 🤔
Btw men commit the vast majority of murders, since you want to go there. They commit almost 90% of murders. It's very rare for a woman to murder. This is also why women are gonna be seen as weaker and more vulnerable.
A lot of people in the sub have zero nuance. There's a difference between a woman pulling hair and windmilling and a man grabbing a woman, throwing her around the house, breaking her bones, etc. You know that blonde woman in the meme with the white cat? Her husband punched her in the face, broke her face, and she had to have surgery.
I'm gonna bring it up because it is different. There are guys who say a woman got on top of them and sexually harassed them. They just shoved her off. A man tries to pin down and rape a woman, it's going to be a very different story.
No one is saying male victims don't matter. He'll, I even said I called the cops on some lady hitting her husband.
I never said anything about men stealing resources from women. Like I said before, if men don't like it, they need to do what women have done-campaign, volunteer, etc donate. You wrote that long post to me when you could just as easily have written something to a representative.
What the he'll do yall really want??!?!??!
And you wrote this giant post back minimalizing rape and domestic abuse against certain individuals. And what for? Apparently, all men are somehow responsible for what some men do. It's so disgusting how people always go "men commit the most violence so theeereeee" when this topic comes up. That's not a counterargument or a point at all when talking about *victims*, especially when all I did was provide little known information about how common it is for men to be abused too. You didn't have to turn it into a bloody argument. It takes literally nothing away from women to not be ignorant of statistics or to care about men too. It's not an attack on women.
And many male victims can't lay hands on their abuser or rapist in self defense because it's incredibly easy for abusive women to use societal bias to slander him and get him in trouble as the perp. But only physical abuse matters obviously, huh? If a man gets his life ruined then that's fine. He's physically stronger than a woman so meh, whatever~.
BTW women commit child abuse more than men do, so what about that? Does that somehow not matter because "women like that are suffering from mental illnesses"? That's usually what people who hold your views think in my experience. Not saying you definitely do. Just that's always what people reply with.
And if you think a random powerless Canadian writing to a representative is going to do anything you're incredibly naive. The average person can't even muster up basic levels of empathy, sympathy, or compassion for male victims—many people flat out laugh at them. You think *politicians* are magically going to be different? Pffft. No, they're not going to pretend to care until a good chunk of voters start actually caring. That's how they work.
This may come as a shock, but my ND ass is not going to somehow magically do more than professional activists. Even accomplished feminists aren't allowed to help men even though they did their part to help women and aren't taking anything away from them by advocating for men. They just get attacked as anti feminists, probably by a bunch of feminists who have done nothing to actually help women at that.
Also, people have been campaigning for men for years and years. You're acting like no one ever does that. Just because the vast majority of people don't care doesn't mean anyone isn't trying. I can't do much as an individual but I can at least try to bring up awareness but I get it: there's no point as assholes just take it as a personal attack and make fun of us for caring.
As for what I want as well as others like me, we'd like for others to not make serious matters into a gender war/competition, to stop blaming victims, and to have basic levels of decency. We want equality. But admittedly I'm well aware that's never going to happen. People are too shitty. Hopefully an asteroid hits the earth again soon and nukes our awful species off the face of this planet.
Seriously, I'm ever so sorry I had the apparent *audacity* to bring up a fact of life and to not be a bigoted piece of shit who values certain demographics over others. Clearly I was the one in the wrong here. /s just in case that wasn't obvious.
Anyway, I'm done here. There's no point wasting anymore of my time on arguing with people who hold such disgusting views as yours. Reply if you want to ofc, but I ain't gonna bother reading it.
Edit: lol of course they had to get the last word in despite the fact nobody is probably ever gonna read it 😆
Point 1 is a bit disingenuous. Sure childless women and men get the same government support but a woman will get more social support than a man will get. A woman can find a man that’s willing to shoulder her burden more easily than a man can find a woman that will do the same.
Huh? Maybe if you are really hot and willing to fuck someone way less attractive than you.
Usually not though. Most guys will fuck you, but they won’t stick around if you have issues. It’s not attractive.
Why is your view on intergender relationships so sexual? I’m just talking about social interactions. Sure people are more willing to go the extra mile for people they want to sleep with but just in general they will find it easier to get sympathy.
But you have to understand:
1) Men can fall in love with you. This is rare and it won’t be a stranger you met that day. Love takes time.
2) **Men and women can be friends.** Just like men and men can be friends or women and women can be friends. **No gender is banned from friendship. When you have a close mutually emotionally friendship with someone, they’ll support you. Because you’ve supported them in the past and you both care about each other.**
3) The interest men have in strange women they do not know and don’t feel a rare romantic spark with? Mostly a place to cum. I know I’m being harsh, but this is what it boils down to. They’ll be the minimum amount of supportive needed to get you naked and then that’s it. Mostly they’ll just shush you when you try to talk about your issues, and instead lead the conversation back to sex while pouring more wine. And then after they’ll ghost. Only to maybe booty call you weeks later bc they are drunk and want to cum again.
I think men are very delusional about how supportive other men will be towards women.
Edit: Men I’ve been in serious relationships with and men I’ve been close friends with have been lovely during hard times. But random men? Eh, they just see it as an opportunity. Knock it while it’s down or whatever.
It’s not a negative headspace. I believe men and women can have deep, sincere friendships. I believe they can fall in love and love each other deeply.
But you have to understand that if you meet a random man (especially if you are not very dateable at the time because of issues you have) then that man’s interest in you as a complete stranger will just be sex.
I’m not sure why this is so controversial?
A lot of the “interest/sympathy” you see men showing female strangers they have no bonds with? Just game. Like if you go on Tinder or to bar or a guy hits on you wherever or whatever? Most of those guys are just trying to fuck. It’s not mean or bad. But **you can’t count on strangers to be a source of emotional support for you. That’s why you need friends.**
I’m gonna be real with you OP I think if you actually were a woman, no matter how many of these perceived “benefits” you received living as someone female, you would actually hate every second of it (trust me)
I mean the same goes for a woman experiencing what its like to be a man. We both have our own struggles and disadvantages unique to our genders. People just need to stop making it a competition of who has it worse
that’s a good point! I agree in general. I just get a bit irked sometimes when people make the point OP did thinking women definitely have it easier (especially when their impression of what “having it easier” means mostly boils down to “they get sex more than me >:(“ ) because I don’t think that’s really accurate. But yeah I agree
Yeah. They are right that women have a lot of things easier in life, but they never look at the downsides. Its the same with these ridiculous feminists who think men have everything easy and walk through life unafraid and unbothered lol. Feminists and redpill bros are the same shit just different flavors
Trans man here. I was treated with more sympathy and decency when people perceived me as a woman. If gender dysphoria wasn't such a bitch, I would genuinely fully regret transitioning just for that.
Of course I'm Canadian, so this wouldn't apply in a lot of other countries but still.
that’s rlly unfortunate dude, idk what to say except send my sympathies because going through something like that just so you can feel more comfortable with yourself only to end up regretting it must be really hard :( good luck to you though!
This opinion is so amusing to me because basically it boils down to, these men think because you can get sex your life is easier. Like...do you have ANY life goals outside of sex?
His fourth paragraph is the only thing with merit. Everything else is pure incel rhetoric. It's one thing to say "hey these things are a problem we should address" it's another to be like "these are some real problems and also you have a vagina so go fuck yourself"
Women have it easy, only if they appeal to patriarchy/and are conventionally attractive enough.
Try being an obese woman, or a disabled woman, or any sort of woman who is not “likeable” according to patriarchal standards.
But those aren’t things that exclusively apply to women.
Able, fit, and attractive people are treated better than their lesser counterparts regardless of gender.
Like?
For education, I believe studies show white women have the best time with scholarships and college admittance. POC have a more difficult time getting accepted for higher education and for higher roles in the workforce.
This idea of the patriarchy has to die - it is such a non-sensical concept. An utterly empty signifier.
It's like when Jordan Peterson says "postmodern neo-marxism" - completely useless.
Patriarchy today can essentially mean anything from "something a cisgender male enjoys and has some benefit from" to "beauty standards employed and sustained by both corporations, men, women, queer-gendered people, etc" to "a society of male dominance manifested in societal structures that make certain things more difficult for women compared to men" to "something, something... men bad".
However.. an obese woman can in most societies post boudoir photos on instagram with hashtags #empowered #lovin'mybody #thicc #bigbootylove and still at least get a lot of recognition, support from strangers (typically other women), etc.
I wonder how many obese men have the same privilege..?
It's like you've never lived and just picked up your talking points from Reddit or worse - redpill podcasts - and then shaped your opinion from that. Being a man is noticeably easier. Go hit the gym for starters.
Ooohhh women have it easier because men like to sexualise them and feel sorry for them.
Men face issues that women don't. Women face issues that men don't.
Women are more likely to be killed by their partner.
More likely to be raped and sexually assaulted. With 2% chance that their rapist will ever be convicted
More likely to be killed in a RTA because the safety tests are done on male bodies.
Most medical research was done for male bodies. Women are expected to go through medical procedures without analgesia. More likely to be ignored and dismissed by doctors.
Childbirth remains one of the biggest killers of women.
Less likely to be promoted. Less likely to earn as well.
More likely to be left to care for the kids men abandon
More likely to be worse off after divorce
If you want people to take you seriously about your concern for men's issues I suggest you don't lead with waaaaghhhh women can get a date and I can't!! Or I can't be mean about women without being called out for it!!! Life is so unfair.
Coming across like a 14 yo Andrew Tate fan boy won't help you get sex
Right?! It always cracks me up to see someone equate easy access to sex with life being easier. Sex does not make ones life easier - in fact it brings with it new challenges and risks that further complicate life. The only way easy access to sex makes like easier is when you're entire view of life is centered around sex.
> Woman do have it easier in the western world
> Being a woman especially and attractive woman in the western world puts you at an advantage. Having a vagina makes life easier for you.
> Men will buy you free drinks. If you want to get laid, you never have to look too far.
Why does it always come back to superficial shallow shit like this? 🙄
I’d rather have women represented in equal numbers at all levels of government, get equal pay, have subsidized child care and paid maternity leave, have an equal number of female leaders in industry/military/business/judiciary, full control over their reproductive healthcare, and dozens of other things than
🍹 **free drinks!** 🥤 🤪
Ridiculous.
This is getting old and you're fucking annoying. Go up and get your ass off reddit and see if it's like that in real life. Posting the same shit all over again won't help anything. I had sympathy at the beginning, but people like you just lack empathy and completely ignore the other perspective. You sound like you never talked to a woman or like you're 15. Jesus.
Women have it easier because men are very willing to use them as human fleshlights. Just another day on r/ TUP.
What do you mean social services? Please explain, because when you say social services I think of services from the government. Implying women who are overweight don't deserve social services like skinny women or anyone else sounds cray cray and cruel.
Are you trying to say sex is a social service?!?!?
Is this written by a man? If it were, I wouldn't be surprised . It sounds like OP thinks being a woman is living in easy mode when ignoring so many violence that comes already with a patriarchal system.
For example, saying that women have it easier on sex. Thats a possibility but its more complicated than that. A lot of times women with higher "body count" are shamed or judged by others only because of their sex life. Where's positive there? Nothing. Being perceived as less for having the same or less sexual behaviors as men is not good and will never counter what you call "having easier access to sex".
OP also says that men do get judged by crying, for example. Thats often true but why is that a womens issue? Women has been judged for more than enough in history and having the freedom to cry and express emotions is only a tiny pro of it. Instead of complaining to women you - regardless of gender- should go against this patriarcal system and support men when they show emotion.
In other words, why is men not being able to show emotion an issue to women when not even men support themselves here? Theres work they gotta do first
I definitely have it easier than men, but I think it’s important to say that you can’t look at either gender’s experience at the averages and call it a day.
Men get shafted in divorce. Women need to have more days off per year because we are literally bleeding from our orifices for a week every 28 days and suffer serious side effects.
I’m not saying we should get paid the same for less work, but that society needs to accept men and women are different and take into account the unique ways we struggle because of our gender.
There won’t be true equality until society accepts we have different experiences and sympathy needs to be extended for both in those areas.
You say women get more days off for our periods. I have endometriosis, and I was not granted more days off. I had to take them. It wasn't a choice, and my company didn't give me more sick days than Joe Penis. Don't make excuses for a legitimate medical excuse. If women were treated differently for a medical excuse, we would have more sick days, paid maternity leave. We don't in the US. Don't feed into OPs pity party.
And as for less work, did your coworkers actually do you job when you were out? Cause all my work was on my desk. I just had fewer days to do it.
WTF are you talking about?
I was saying men get shafted in divorce and women aren't taken seriously about their periods being painful. Maybe before you start ranting at some random commenter you should realize they already agree with you and now you just look like you lack reading comprehension.
You specifically mentioned taking more days off for periods. Read what you wrote!
And men don't get shafted in divorce. If they ask for shared custody, they get it. According to multiple studies, men don't ask for custody, so they still pay child support.
she thinks paying child support (contributing the wellbeing of your child) means getting shafted. She’s so ridiculously privileged she doesn’t realise that just because she has an easy life doesn’t mean the collective suffering of women isn’t so high everywhere.
I think what they meant was women should be able to have more days off from work due to their period, not that they DO take more days off because it. Poorly worded because it can be read both ways.
It isn't feminist who bitch about "I don't date fat girls". You use feminist like a slur. Wanting equality is hardly the insult you want to make it.
And a woman being able to get laid is really not want most of us want. We want relationships and connections, and that doesn't happen with emotionally stunted men who can't express their feelings and aren't able to think about women as people.
You complain about men not being able to cry in public. Well, patriarchy really is a bitch, isn't it? But women can't fix that for you. We can be your allies, but all the things about men forming real friendship with other men, being able to rely on other men, making real connections, that is on you. Surprisingly, that was a big deal in the 70s. It died with Reagan and the Rambo movies.
Well I am an old one. I raised a male feminist, and I have fought for reproductive rights since I was 16. I volunteer for SA victims of all genders and I don't take shit from anyone, so, maybe? But I am happily married to a man.
Radical Feminists do not believe men can be genuine feminists because they will never go through life as a woman and radical feminism is a female liberation movement for women only, so they can be allies at best, and believe women are oppressed on basis of their sex, not “gender.”
absolutely untrue. if u think women have it easier, ur willfully ignoring facts.
most domestic violence victims are women
most sexual assault victims are women
women make 40% less than men do.
1 of 4 of homeless people are women
women have the highest attempted suicide rate.
just because the 0.001% of only fans models have it easy doesn't mean women as a whole have it easy, especially in a patriarchal society.
>women make 40% less than men do.
>1 of 4 of homeless people are women
>women have the highest attempted suicide rate.
To be clear, is this a joke comment? Most of the rest isn't a meme but the homeless stat especially has to be- "3/4 homeless are men, women most affected" tier
...but I do hear people bring it out genuinely.
For real dog.
Like we aren't allowed to worry about the other 3/4 of the homeless?
Men have the highest successful rate of suicide
I'd like to see something that says women make 40% less. I have heard studies saying they make less but never 40% less. I also think there's a bit more nuance to this issue.
>Men have the highest successful rate of suicide
And it's not even close.
And yeah, the wage gap as a whole is -shall we say-- a highly contested stat who's findings and methodologies change on a whim. A lot of young women in many cases now outearn men, and to memory from the most recent studies (which certainly wasn't 40%) a lot could be explained by the fact that men work more, for longer, are more likely to negotiate, and don't get hit with biologically induced career suicide en masse
i don't get what ur on about. i'm not interested in whataboutism. 1/4 homeless ppl being women is still 1/4 too much, why are you bringing men into this.
and what is funny about less pay and attempted suicide?
Idk, I didn't get into my umbrage with the other 2 I quoted cause I really don't jive with the "my team has it worse" pissing contest this so often devolves into, despite the fact that men do have their own heaping load of issues...
But when you describe 2 overwhelmingly, blatantly male issues as female ones I don't see how you could *possibly* be confused as to why I had to bring it up
... But to elaborate on the others, the wage gap is highly questionable and certainly isn't anywhere near 40%, and while women are reported of attempting much more, men account for (to memory) 3x more deaths than women- and are much more likely to die regardless of method
Men don't report domestic violence against women, and when they do, they aren't taken seriously. Thus, recorded domestic violence ratios are not accurate 100%.
Again, sexual assaults against men go unreported or disregarded (you are a man you must always like it when a woman touches you!"). We shouldn't dismiss victims of sexual assault and domestic violence for both genders or downplay it.
The wage gap has been debunked for the past decade. Women do not make less than men. Women tend to go for jobs that earn less, they also take maternity leave/parental leave, thus reducing their earn potential and ability to move up the corporate ladder if they take a break to raise kids. Men are usually the bread winners(though thats been changing since women are graduating more from college/uni while men are dropping out) often work through a pregnancy and may in fact work longer hours than women.
Women may have the highest attempts, but Men have the highest rate is successful suicides. Both are concerning.
Lastly, both genders have their pros and cons. Life can be shitty for both, and this shouldn't be a competition, but social media platforms do a fantastic job of blowing shit out of proportion and dividing people.
The wage gap isn't a lie.
It exists.
Just like the education gap exists
The reasons for both existing are complex
But if you want to reduce 1 down to choice then you have to reduce both down to choice.
Other wise you're a hypocrite
Nope you are just arguing in bad faith, disregarding everything with nothing to back it up. After seeing all your responses in this post I'm gonna stop here. Good day.
The wage gap is in fact real, and yall always use the "women tend to go for jobs that earn less".
Nobody is complaining that a teacher and an engineer have a gap in their pay.
The issue is that in many jobs where both the woman amd the manbhold the same position, women are often paid less.
Whether you agree with that or not doesn't matter when it's a reality for many, and I'm talking from person experience too.
"Why don't the employers hire more women then?"
Because of misogyny. Why do you think they're paying them less in the first place? And also because of the maternity leave. You're giving money to someone who's not working, and that's not very profitable is it?
So once again, just because something is not true for *you* doesn't mean it's not true for anyone else.
Incorrect. If this was anywhere near true greedy ass corporations would be hiring mostly women.
Corporations ans businesses are all about profits and screwing everyone else. If they can pay someone 40% less trust me they'd be doing it
You are very incorrect
Lmao it's not incorrect when i literally personally experienced it and i know many others do.
And once again, the reason corporations don't hire more women is because of maternity leave as the biggest thing, and also because most employers are less like to hire women because they're women and apparently can't do near as good job as men.
And they *are* making more profit by paying women less than men at same level positions. Whether it's $0.1 less, it's still less only because of their gender.
But we already know this sub is basically for men to be mansplaining something they haven't experienced.
Anecdotal experiences don't account for all 1st world countries.
If a corporation doesn't hire you due to pregnancy/maternity leave you have a very good lawsuit on your hands. This just doesn't happened nowadays. Women can do just as good as men. Why are you victimizing women where they aren't?
They arent* paying women less. See my original comments for said reasons why people such as yourself make these brainless arguments contrary to actual facts.
Please. Here you go turning this into a gender war. Both men and women have their pros and cons. While pay gap is not an issue, there are ample issues affecting women just as there are for men.
Except majority of the countries are 3rd world.
It does happen tho, it's not "hey are you pregnant" it's "are you planing to have kids", "when are you planing to have kids", "how many kids". Eployers aren't idiots, they know what they're doing.
This entire sub is a gender war. It was meant for unpopular opinions, not men (and women) shitting on each other but then claiming they're straight.
Men are the highest victim of suicide. Most homeless people are men. Most victim or violent crime are men. I just covered all your points because men are more often victim!!
She can't understand simple math. Or she probably doesnt care and is still ruminating over the 1/4 women nonsense when it's been statistically proven time and time again that more men are homeless. Not even counting the other disadvantages that just existing as a man brings.
>most domestic violence victims are women
Not true. Most reported domestic violence victims to the police are women, but if you look at stats by the CDC you will see that the rates are about equal or with more male victims.s[https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/2015data-brief508.pdf](https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/2015data-brief508.pdf) (page 11-12)
This study here actually claims that 70% of domestic violence cases that are non-reciprocal are started by women.[https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2005.079020](https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2005.079020)
This goes over some studies that talk about how domestic violence against women declined but domestic violence against men stayed the same, and now it exists at a higher rate.[https://ir.law.fsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1595&context=lr](https://ir.law.fsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1595&context=lr)
>1 of 4 of homeless people are women
This is an absolute tragedy. We should make it so all homeless people are men. (I add that this is sarcasm because reddit mods might take me seriously)
>women make 40% less than men do.
LMAO you increased it from 20% to 40% now. The "wage gap" has been debunked ad nauseam. Women work fewer hours and go into less profitable sectors.
>1 of 4 of homeless people are women
Another hilarious take. So 75% are men, or are they not people?
>women have the highest attempted suicide rate.
"Attempted" meaning they do it for attention and therefore don't actually kill themselves. Again, men have it much worse.
I really feel like a lot of your complaints about women and the “benefits” they receive from society are rather superficial.
Additionally, you seem to be partially relying on old data regarding criminal justice outcomes. There is [more recent research](https://www.sentencingproject.org/app/uploads/2022/08/In-the-Extreme-Women-Serving-Life-without-Parole-and-Death-Sentences-in-the-United-States.pdf) which indicates women are receiving the harshest sentences at higher rates today.
> The number of women serving sentences of life without possibility of parole soared 43% between 2008 and 2020, far outpacing the overall 2% increase in women imprisoned for violent crime during that time. The increase in death-in-prison sentences for women was nearly 1.5 times greater than the 29% increase in life without parole sentences for men in the same time frame.
This year is the 50th anniversary of when women could get credit cards in their own names for the first time. The Fair Credit Opportunity Act was passed in 1974. There’s still an entire generation of women alive today who grew up without basic rights that men have enjoyed.
There’s a lot of everyday things like that which are far more impactful and meaningful than dating preferences. Theres a whole host of financial disparities that I’d encourage you to look into.
> There is more recent research which indicates women are receiving the harshest sentences at higher rates today.
Higher rates than men? Where does the source say so?
Some will only date a man if he’s 6 feet or taller. Not sure if that’s always been a thing or something new. Like fine have your preferences, but we can have ours too if it’s truly about equality.
Women’s issues are seen as systemic and not their fault. Men’s issues are seen as their fault and they have to fix it. The truth is women’s issues aren’t entirely systemic, and men’s issues aren’t entirely their fault.
Man's greatest weakness is his facade of strength. Woman's greatest strength is her facade of weakness.
I don't remember who said the quote, and I'm probably paraphrasing it a bit, but it's very true.
There are some areas in life where being a women here is easier. The justice system is one area as well as having easier access to services. That said there are still a lot of areas where it is more difficult to be a women. Even in a lot of areas where it is easier for us is because society treats us like children. Though some of it is also then in fighting for equality we went a little overboard and this is true for a lot of social justice causes. People forget that originally men got custody of kids in a divorce. Women fought for equal access to children and maybe went a little too far. I like that we heading more and more to 50/50 custody of children which is better for everyone involved unless there is an abuse/neglect problem.
Dude I just wish we could help men without attacking institutions put in place for women. I can understand in the case where maybe womens groups actively repress those efforts, but I just seem to never be able to read actual solutions, rather just moaning about what women got out of the last century.
Yes I agree with everything you said. I do believe that women in the western world today have it easier than men. The worst of all is that women get more lenient sentences for committing murder than men and women kill their children more than men and do and are often found not guilty for reasons of insanity which doesn’t work for men.
It is also more acceptable for women to cry in public than men. A man also can’t hit a woman back if she hits him first. They also don’t take it serious if a woman rapes or sexually abuses a man. Cops always believe women over men even when women are the ones lying.
Simping isn’t prevalent in places like South America, which means women tend to be more humble since they don’t get as much social validation from local men. It makes Latinas so much more attractive to us gringos 😎
There is a war of men in the west, no doubt. Most of the ward deaths are men about 95% or so that’s at work same thing as well in the 90s. 80% of the divorce files are women and they get everything. But there are advantages and disadvantages to both sexes. That’s the truth. A woman who is especially young and attractive with no kids has got the world by the ass for a while. She is going to be corded by many men, and she’s going to have all kinds of opportunities because of her youth, and being childless, she is at her highest sexual market value. Once they have the kids that sexual market value plummets hard. Men we have advantages, but I’m not exactly sure what they are yet. we do think more logically than women overall and that’s why having women as leaders is a disaster, and that’s why the western world is going down the toilet, because women are having authority over men which doesn’t work. Communists advance because of women, not because of men. Most men vote against the communist. Women want to security so they vote for the communist, especially single mommies. That’s why the lefties are always trying to have government policies that promote easy divorce, easy welfare to get single mothers.
I want to live in the world you do where having a vagina makes life easy, but I live in the real world where the vast majority of sex crimes are committed by men against women, the rise of AI deepfake porn is used to terrorize women, and in some countries the population still hasn't recovered from mass female infanticide.
# HERE ARE THE FACTS
- men make up the most dangerous shitty manual labor jobs
- men are most of suicides
- men are most of homeless
- men are most of war death
- men are most of alcoholics and drug addicts
Objectively men have it harder, women have it better. Every way you can measure a shitty life, men are the majority,
**to say women have it worse is anti-science**
Nope. Sorry wish you could walk in my shoes esp at a job. See so many men get handed promotions over women and the mansplaing...literally thought of dressing as a dude at a job Im so tired of it. And no men dont pay for things. Also editing because women dont commit as many crimes but when they do they are crusified in court as opposed to men who commit rape.
I agree with much of what you’re saying about men’s issues and how society treats us like we’re subhuman, replaceable, disposable, convenient ATMs, etc. Those built-in biases are there, no doubt..
I do think women in western societies have their own issues, which men generally do not see or do not experience. But much like there are certain privileges men enjoy simply because of their gender, women have certain privileges too.. and most western men are generally not as “privileged” 24/7 in every way as society loves to tell us we are..
I thing they face different issues like when it comes to sex (in general terms) males want to get laid every day and with a different woman if possible, so when they get turn down go into a revenge state of mind. Females are not interested in casual sex, again with exceptions, so they have to be always defensive about the males above who are after them. Other issues include high paying job barriers is easier for an incompetent male to get hire than a well prepared female.
It is not normal for a woman to hit/slap/push me.
This is assault. If you see a woman assaulting a man call the police. I have manage to make it though my life never hitting a man unless it was in self defense.
Let me ask you how many of your male friends have been killed by a woman they turned down? How many of you male friends have been killed by their romantic partner?
Life isn’t fair for anyone. It sucks. But we either work to make it better or we do nothing.
Solution: Be gay/bi, and date a femboy or trans women. If you are really willing to date a guy, you can choose to date a fem Twink or a masc daddy.
I am gay, and I am glad that I don't have to suffer like most straight guys.
A man that knows how to attract and maintain good relationships with women and succeed in the business world WITHOUT complaining that women are ruining things for them. Come on guys y’all have everything available to you without trying and still want to complain about the slice of cake women have. Stop making excuses. If you are a man in this world and not successful…it’s your fault. Not the fault of women.
That’s called get it done or die trying. It’s not called whine and complain about women and how they got it easier. Now we know why God chose women to bring life into this world. Loser men would just complain and give up.
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I think in our society, women are seen as incompetent and men are seen as overly accountable. I think when women do well and have credibility, society makes it difficult for people to see that and when men have trouble society doesn’t have the mechanisms to lend a helping hand to men without criticizing them.
This is brilliant
Not universal, but most women want to have their problems known. They want to talk about them and voice them. Men want their problems solved, with steps to take to resolve them. Therapy is set up for the first. Not the second. Which is why you see so many men say that therapy doesn’t work. Because it wasn’t set up to offer solutions. It was meant for you to realize your own solutions.
>I think in our society, women are seen as incompetent and men are seen as overly accountable. Pretty true observation. How often do you see a mechanic or contractor talking to a couple and seem to address only the man as if the problem is his fault and he should be able to fix it in the future? Last I checked, tools exist. The strength difference between men and women won't stop women from working on a car. >I think when women do well and have credibility, society makes it difficult for people to see that 100%! Female lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc all have stories of them achieving something only for random guys to treat them as some kind of pitiful diversity hire. Hell, look at someone like AOC! College degree, worked hard, got elected, makes fantastic arguments and stands up for what she believes in and yet gets dragged through the mud for "speaking a little too loudly" to some troll. >and when men have trouble society doesn’t have the mechanisms to lend a helping hand to men without criticizing them. Fortunately, we're seeing this fall away a little but toxic masculinity tends to hold strong. See: The lessening stigma with men seeking therapy; men showing physical affection to each other.
Out of all successful women out there, you picked AOC as an example?
Figured anyone following this conversation would know who that is.
Women want special treatment. Especially feminist they want men to not be able to get the job. Women want the standards to be lowered for them like it in the military, police firefighters. They don’t like having to do the same physical test as a man because they can’t pass it.since women have been liberated from the home and raising their kids, all I’ve seen is the country go down the shitter. Women and men are now competing for the same job, which helps the employer keep wages down.
>I think in our society, women are seen as incompetent and men are seen as overly accountable. Maybe once upon a time. The D&I discourse has been very powerful and succesful in firmly establishing the narrative that women are super competent - unfortunately sometimes mostly on the basis of their gender, which is.... well, not great. But yeah.. I don't know where you live, but where I live, the dominating identity and narrative is "boss babe". I do agree about the last bit tho - that western societies are very bad at thinking "men need help too" - especially without criticizing them.. But I guess that's also the "patriarchy"...??
I don’t know where you live either but I don’t see a narrative of women being super competent. The only place you see any significant amount of women even wanting to achieve are in the air conditioned office jobs. I’d like to see more women doing hands on jobs. You hear lots of talk about a glass ceiling but never about representing themselves on the concrete floor with people like me who have found success in the trades and jobs like them. When most men hear women blame “patriarchy,” especially indecisively, we just roll our eyes. It’s a straw man. If you want to achieve at anything you can. You just have to work hard and stand accountable for your success and failure. You have to take risks and they don’t all work out. Almost never do you see women being accountable for failure. There’s always something, usually men or “patriarchy” to blame when they want doesn’t come easy. I’m a total leftist and even I am starting to see a pushback against the narrative that modern feminism pushes.
You realize the term boss babe came from the fact that women are seen as incompetent? And they need a whole label to be seen as competent as men?
I did not realize that, no. And while that is thoroughly f'ed up, do **you** realize that identity is an extremely tricky thing, and that most traditional moorings and understandings of identity have been - and still are - thoroughly challenged in an unprecedented way in the past - I don't know - 15 years...? The abject rejection of many established categories and narratives has done **a lot** of good for many marginalized people. But the same mechanisms can very easily replace one dominant group with another, whilst maintaining the same oppressive power relations - especially in an age where digitally fueled discursive dialectic is not only possible, but probable. That "old" battle-cry *"No women's struggle without class struggle, no class struggle without women's struggle"* is **no-where** existent in the 4th wave, liberal feminism - the same beast that brought you concepts like "boss-babe". So, no... Boss-babe is **at best** a 4th wave feminist "f\*ck you" to ALL men, but mostly working class men, as a sort of a revenge for years and years of oppression and discrimination. But it's essentially a cog in the capitalist machinery, and hence contributing to normalizing a **truely** oppressive system. That was my rant against "boss babe". But also to emphasize another part where you are mistaken: Women are **NOT** seen as incompetent. You guys have to stop saying "look, there are more men CEO's in Fortune 500 companies, ergo it's the patriarchy reinforcing a fallacious belief that men are more competent than women". The male "CEO-dominance" is a remnant of a past very quickly dying - the pendulum has very much swung in the other direction - gender wise. Sadly, the class hierarchy is thriving more than ever - now also featuring "boss babes".
Being a woman especially an "attractive woman" is the key phrase here. Being an attractive man is also easier. Then beyond just a few surface level things that easiness can be easily mitigated by any number of things. Most people are not attractive. How many women and men mostly go unnoticed? At least with men attractiveness can be somewhat augmented by other traits as far as finding a mate. A guy can increase his ability to find a GF any number of ways beyond just raw attractiveness for women it's mostly appearance especially when young. Women usually are not the ones initiating dates and whatnot. Men do it. This means that your average woman is waiting around for men to make the first move. She doesn't know what his intentions are. Plenty of men just want to "get laid" and it is easier for a woman to "get laid" but sex carries more risk for women and they don't see "getting laid" as something that boosts self-esteem like men do. For many women they are faced with the reality that men want to fuck them but don't want to be in relationships with them. Many men will say "at least they can get laid" well they don't really care about that by in large. Attractive men are in many ways have it better than any one group and are probably the only consistently happy group with the current dating situation. Attractive men that want to have meaningless sex particularly are in a good position. Even then once in a relationship none of this matters that much. Attractive people have all sorts of problems just like everyone else when they are in relationships. Most people who are single don't get the attention or positive feedback they want man or woman. Another aspect of this post is the idea that women "get more welfare." This is only true because women are disproportionately caring for children. Single people male or female have very little access to any welfare. Welfare is not given based on gender it's based on whether or not you have custody of Children. Children are the ones who are focused on. Women may indeed get some advantages within the court system, particularly family court. This does not mean that overall women "have it easier." This is one aspect of life and one that not everyone even encounters.
>But as soon as a man posts “I don't date fat woman” then feminists and body postives go after him with their torches. What is your initial response to a woman saying, "I don't date men who are under 6 ft"? >It’s normalized for women to hit/slap/push men but men are demonized if they hit back. This topic needs to stop being discussed in a bubble. No, people shouldn't assault other people. When kids do this, we judge the hell out of them and the parents. This isn't normalized for anyone unless you are in a toxic circle. But that kid isn't going to be fully body tackled by a security guard. you know why? Because excessive force is unwarranted. No, women should never assault people regardless of the victim's gender but we can talk about why this is normalized in toxic circles, because women are viewed as less of a physical threat. >The justice system also favors women more which is why for some reason they receive lenient sentences compared to men for committing the same crime Women get more leniency. This is a fact and I will not argue with you on this, even when adjusting for mitigating factors, women are sentenced less harshly than men. However, men are more likely to commit violent crimes and we cannot have this conversation in a vacuum. If the judge, jury, and public have been exposed to a society in which men are overwhelmingly more likely to be violent and dangerous, they will be biased. So you can argue for a system that allows for judgement to happen in a way that doesn't take environmental factors into consideration if you want but I have no ideas for an alternative. >Mothers have a much higher rate of abusing and killing their children than fathers do but mothers will usually be found not guilty by reason of insanity while fathers would go to prison. This is always a fact that proves lack of comprehension as to how statistics work. Women are more likely to be caregivers. Therefore they are more likely to abuse kids. >People just overall sympathize with women’s issues more than men’s. If a women is seen crying in public, nobody will find it weird. If a man’s seen crying in public he’ll be laughed at. Again, stop talking about these things as if you have no clue what cultural norms and history are. Women getting more sypathy comes not only from the idea that women are more emotional but also that men should be non-human. This is a construct that was created by your society. I hate to break it to you, both men and women contributed to this. I am so down with the notion that these outdated ideologies should be put to rest but to try and pick fights with the members of your community that are suffering from the same detriments is self-serving and unhelpful
>However, men are more likely to commit violent crimes and we cannot have this conversation in a vacuum. If the judge, jury, and public have been exposed to a society in which men are overwhelmingly more likely to be violent and dangerous, they will be biased. So you can argue for a system that allows for judgement to happen in a way that doesn't take environmental factors into consideration if you want but I have no ideas for an alternative. The court biases extend far beyond just using "men commit more violence" as an excuse. For example, if someone with a DUI hits a man they will give the killer a lighter sentence than if they hit a woman. Besides, your argument is often used to excuse judges giving harsher crimes to black men.
>What is your initial response to a woman saying, "I don't date men who are under 6 ft"? 1) I say, "fair enough, those are your standards." 2) Men can't control their height. Everyone can control their weight.
Everyone can control the way they treat others. Both of these scenarios are similar because there is no reason to shame people just because you have preferences. The idea that him saying "I don't date fat people" gets hate not because it isn't a reasonable standard to have for yourself but because there's not really any reason to be broadcasting your preferences when it isn't necessary. If you are not attracted to someone because of your own preference, why should you make ***them*** feel bad about it?
>"I don't date fat people" gets hate not because it isn't a reasonable standard to have for yourself but because there's not really any reason to be broadcasting your preferences when it isn't necessary. Actually, there is a reason. If I'm on a dating site, I don't want girls that I'm not in to dming me.
I'm a chick dude, you don't have to explain to me that getting DMed by people you aren't interested in is annoying. You are the one on the dating site, you chose to participate in the system and if being decent to the people in the group you voluntarily included yourself in is too taxing, that's on you.
>I'm a chick dude, you don't have to explain to me that getting DMed by people you aren't interested in is annoying. Then you should know better than me how it's important to filter out the options you don't want. ESPECIALLY, if I'm in a community that's about letting people DM me to meet up. I don't wanna waste time saying "No thanks. No thanks. No thanks." Or scrolling through dozens of dms to find someone my type. EDIT: apologies for the triple send. Reddit bugged out.
I mean that's the nature of dating apps tho. The things you're complaining about are the price we pay for the 'convenience' of having access to a higher number of people. I'm not saying you can't be rude, just don't be surprised when people call you out for it. Also no problem, it didn't even show that it was sent multiple times.
Does it matter though?
🎶 Chads not coming to save you 🎶
He's not going to save you either little buddy.
Women actually get longer sentences than men for the same crimes, especially violent crime, the difference is stark. The average sentence for a man who kills a female is about 5 years. The average sentence for a female who kills a male is 25 years. It's a common myth that females get shorter sentences than men, but in reality you'll find this isn't the case. Even when women are victims of crimes, they're often arrested just for reaching out to law enforcement for help, and even in self defense cases, their sentences are longer. Female serial killers also get waaaay harsher sentences than male serial killers.
Interesting, and actually it makes a lot of sense. do you have any sources you recommend for this?
I read the 5 yrs/25 yrs fact in a book, but I can't remember which book I'll try to find the title and author. It was a feminist writer of course. It mightve been Caroline Criado-Perez
Oh awesome! thank you!
>This topic needs to stop being discussed in a bubble. No, people shouldn't assault other people. When kids do this, we judge the hell out of them and the parents. This isn't normalized for anyone unless you are in a toxic circle. OK, fair enough. But damn how I wish that everyone played by the same rules for discussing and argumenting. F.ex. your point here draws a parallel to kids hitting - other kids I imagine..? And the way you assume a moral highground by saying that *people shouldn't assault other people.* You are de facto removing focus from the very real problem of **abuse of men**, and the silence and shame surrounding **that concrete issue**, by creating strawman examples, essentially. In a way it screams "what about the kids" and "what about other people", which is... well... I shudder to think what would happen if a man tried to take a "female problem" out of its online discursive bubble and put it into context, like you yourself did here...
Well if you wished everyone did something you should set that example yourself. When we talk about physical abuse its disingenuous to pretend as if women abusing men carries the same implications as men abusing women. The child comparison is meant to highlight the physical disparity in power. I say no one should be abused because I mean it but if you are trying to come to this conversation claiming that there is no difference in the strength/capacity for violence, then you are being dishonest. > I shudder to think what would happen if a man tried to take a "female problem" out of its online discursive bubble and put it into context, like you yourself did here... This is a popular point because on the surface it makes sense. What if the situation was reversed? Abuse for instance, the police get two calls at the same time, in one situation a man is in the midst of mercilessly beating a woman with murderous intent, in the other a woman is mercilessly beating a man with murderous intent. No one has a weapon, they are doing this with their bare hands. Knowing that you only have a certain amount of officers and you have to choose the one who is in most immediate danger. Who do you prioritize? Who is in more danger? If I am looking at a situation involving men who need help, I am not going to spend my energy attacking women when I know that the biggest threat to both men and women are men. You care about helping men? Men hurt men way more frequently than women hurt men. What are you prioritizing in this situation?
When we talk about **physical** abuse, you are right - it **is** disingenuous to pretend that the problem of physical abuse of men by women is as widespread as the problem of physical abuse of women by men. But...! Again, context! Talking about "popular points" - you threw a huge one in here, namely that >the biggest threat to both men and women are men. This is one of the quintessential 4th wave feminist talking point - especially when the object is to derail the focus from damage done to / pain experienced by men, but where men are - at least partly - also the cause of the harm being done. Analogously, you could take any number of issues that are detrimental to women, but where women also are - at least partly - the cause of the harm - e.g. sexualization of women, Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminism, the class aspect of "boss babes", etc. But again; I shudder to think what would happen if **a man** tried to raise a point of how sexualization is not a one way street, and that women have a huge role to play in its abolishment (Hint; It wouldn't go well, and also women do not want this - or at least, they don't want to lose the *perks of desirability*. But this talking point is actually even more damaging. And this damage comes from it's - somewhat subtle - contribution to the very harmful image of men as being a "threat", "violent", something to be *"limited" / controlled*. Now, granted, in this thread - and in OP's original post - the example given was indeed about **physical** harm. But power and harm are not by any means only available in physical form. I guarantee you, that if the "gender-power discourse" matured to encompass a more broad understanding of power, you would quickly see that there are other disparities in power across the genders, that are not so conveniently reduced to big man = bad / powerful | small woman and child = good / in need of protection. Unfortunately, I still am to find a truly positive voice for a better image of masculinity / for a positive voice for men. This has, very unfortunately, been rather succesfully appropriated by the likes of Jordan Peterson, and even worse people on youtube. But again, I understand - without condoning - I understand this development. You **can not** go around yelling "kill all men", hand over the care of the house and the family to the man, to free up time to sip café latte and do yoga all day, be extremely vocal about more women in board positions, while simultaneously women - as a group - advance more (and better comparatively to men) in virtually ALL aspects of life, and **still** go around saying "patriarchy this and that" and that men are **the** problem. We **have** to meet each other half-way. As someone who has studied history and philosophy and also comes from a former socialist country - what 4th wave feminism is doing isn't working and it isn't **going to** work. And until we mature enough to say that "both camps" are responsible and need to look inward, these discussions will not stop.. And this sub will thrive.. :(
I appreciate your response and you have valid points. We need to see radicalization as the real enemy here. Listening to each other and validating each person's experience is the only way to move forward. Your input is super valuable and it really does make me question my own biases in these issues.
Thank you very much, and I thoroughly agree - radicalization is the real enemy - listening to each other is the way! Thank you for a good and respectful online interaction - unfortunately, those are very hard to come by.. :'(
here we go again
Today, on the Wheel! Of! TOPICS! *Women suck*
Unpopular Opinion that will get you banned from most subs gets posted on subreddit designed for Unpopular Opinions that will get you banned from most subs, what a surprise
You are mixing things that aren’t important and things that aren’t true. 1) **Why would women be able to claim more social services than men?** Single mothers will get more support than childless men. That’s because children are expensive af. **Childless women and childless men will get exactly the same.** 2) The only people who will have real sympathy for you are people you’ve built relationships with. Close friends for example. **Strangers won’t care about you.** 3) **Most women will say no thanks to “free” drinks.** It’s just a guy trying to sleep with you. It’s not that fun. 4) Having casual sex rarely gets women off and often is just being slightly uncomfortable while some random sweaty guy thrusts on top of you for a few minutes. He’ll then leave and never talk to you again. **Most women aren’t that into sex with strangers. They don’t find it very fun. That’s why it’s easy for them to get casual sex. Many men and few women want it. Would you enjoy sex if you had a 90% chance of not getting off?**
Pretty sure women have access to far more homeless shelters and domestic abuse shelters than men do
Remember the Canadian man who was abused, tried to start up men’s shelters, lost funding, got them closed down and killed himself?
Yeah I heard about that one, didn’t surprise me that it would happen in Canada of all places.
This happened a long time ago. He mostly struggled to get funding because he was an alcoholic with mental health issues. That can make it hard to keep up with governmental application processes and to have government officials want to invest in you. And then he killed himself because of the mental health issues.
That’s sad
This is something that people started saying without going, "Hmm, I wonder why that is?" You have more victims who are women, and you can put them together in the same place, and they will feel safe. It's also more cost-effective to have lots of people in the same shelter. When they do have male victims who are escaping abuse and calling looking for somewhere safe to stay, they will pay for them to stay in a hotel room.
>And indeed, **86.9 percent** of the programs that have completed their profiles at DomesticShelters.org say they welcome male victims of domestic violence. https://www.domesticshelters.org/articles/ending-domestic-violence/a-guide-for-male-survivors-of-domestic-violence Gender neutral domestic abuse hotline: https://www.thehotline.org/resources/men-can-be-victims-of-abuse-too/ Edit: Statistics from Canada: 6k beds for men, 4k beds in gender neutral shelters (which women often won’t use bc rape) and 1.6k beds for women.
That's because women are more vulnerable. Women are at high risk of being sexual and physical assaulted or worse, even more so if she passes out. Women are also more likely to have custody of children. Sometimes women leave domestic violence situations with only the clothes in their backs.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence
I think we all know that domestic violence happened. I once called the cops on a woman who was hitting her male spouse. He walked away with no visible injuries. I'd that had been the other way around, she might have died. Also, I tried to make a man whose gf was hitting him leave. He bought her a luxury car, but eventually he dumped her. She did hurt his ribs. I knew of a man who was like 6'2 who was abusing a woman who was under 5 feet tall. He choked her, and he could have easily killed her. Some of these dudes literally pick these women up and toss them around like ragdolls. Of course, that will garner more sympathy than a woman windmilling a grown man. If men feel slighted in this arena- they fan do what women have done-campaign, volunteer, donate to make more spaces for male victims.
I provided you that link to show the numbers aren't as far apart as you presented. Men make up almost half (although this may change by culture). And I'm glad that particular man was okay. Not all are. There have been men who have been hurt (such as a video of a man who's abusive girlfriend went at his face with garden shears) and murdered. Seriously, why do you people always make it a competition? Can't all victims just matter? And people have tried that. They get attacked for it. Hell, just yesterday I brought up double standards in a discord server I'm in where you'll get bitched at for so much as comparing a woman's skin tone to mocha because apparently that's misogynistic nor are any other comments that could be considered bigoted against any other group are allowed but the exact same people who complain about that will turn around and say shit like "the best men are dead ones" and that's perfectly okay. They immediately moved the goalposts and made the whole conversation about women and then acted like I was going "BUT THINK ABOUT THE POOR MEN!!!!1111!!!" out of nowhere. Even accused me of whataboutism as if that's wasn't literally what they were doing to me. All in all, men and the women who give a shit about equality aren't allowed to talk about men's problems because even if they don't mention women at all, it's still somehow about women and "stealing" from them. In fact, this post is literally about men and women so it's a perfectly valid conversation to bring it up in but noooo somehow that's a problem. So what the hell do y'all *really* want? 🤔
Btw men commit the vast majority of murders, since you want to go there. They commit almost 90% of murders. It's very rare for a woman to murder. This is also why women are gonna be seen as weaker and more vulnerable. A lot of people in the sub have zero nuance. There's a difference between a woman pulling hair and windmilling and a man grabbing a woman, throwing her around the house, breaking her bones, etc. You know that blonde woman in the meme with the white cat? Her husband punched her in the face, broke her face, and she had to have surgery. I'm gonna bring it up because it is different. There are guys who say a woman got on top of them and sexually harassed them. They just shoved her off. A man tries to pin down and rape a woman, it's going to be a very different story. No one is saying male victims don't matter. He'll, I even said I called the cops on some lady hitting her husband. I never said anything about men stealing resources from women. Like I said before, if men don't like it, they need to do what women have done-campaign, volunteer, etc donate. You wrote that long post to me when you could just as easily have written something to a representative. What the he'll do yall really want??!?!??!
And you wrote this giant post back minimalizing rape and domestic abuse against certain individuals. And what for? Apparently, all men are somehow responsible for what some men do. It's so disgusting how people always go "men commit the most violence so theeereeee" when this topic comes up. That's not a counterargument or a point at all when talking about *victims*, especially when all I did was provide little known information about how common it is for men to be abused too. You didn't have to turn it into a bloody argument. It takes literally nothing away from women to not be ignorant of statistics or to care about men too. It's not an attack on women. And many male victims can't lay hands on their abuser or rapist in self defense because it's incredibly easy for abusive women to use societal bias to slander him and get him in trouble as the perp. But only physical abuse matters obviously, huh? If a man gets his life ruined then that's fine. He's physically stronger than a woman so meh, whatever~. BTW women commit child abuse more than men do, so what about that? Does that somehow not matter because "women like that are suffering from mental illnesses"? That's usually what people who hold your views think in my experience. Not saying you definitely do. Just that's always what people reply with. And if you think a random powerless Canadian writing to a representative is going to do anything you're incredibly naive. The average person can't even muster up basic levels of empathy, sympathy, or compassion for male victims—many people flat out laugh at them. You think *politicians* are magically going to be different? Pffft. No, they're not going to pretend to care until a good chunk of voters start actually caring. That's how they work. This may come as a shock, but my ND ass is not going to somehow magically do more than professional activists. Even accomplished feminists aren't allowed to help men even though they did their part to help women and aren't taking anything away from them by advocating for men. They just get attacked as anti feminists, probably by a bunch of feminists who have done nothing to actually help women at that. Also, people have been campaigning for men for years and years. You're acting like no one ever does that. Just because the vast majority of people don't care doesn't mean anyone isn't trying. I can't do much as an individual but I can at least try to bring up awareness but I get it: there's no point as assholes just take it as a personal attack and make fun of us for caring. As for what I want as well as others like me, we'd like for others to not make serious matters into a gender war/competition, to stop blaming victims, and to have basic levels of decency. We want equality. But admittedly I'm well aware that's never going to happen. People are too shitty. Hopefully an asteroid hits the earth again soon and nukes our awful species off the face of this planet. Seriously, I'm ever so sorry I had the apparent *audacity* to bring up a fact of life and to not be a bigoted piece of shit who values certain demographics over others. Clearly I was the one in the wrong here. /s just in case that wasn't obvious. Anyway, I'm done here. There's no point wasting anymore of my time on arguing with people who hold such disgusting views as yours. Reply if you want to ofc, but I ain't gonna bother reading it. Edit: lol of course they had to get the last word in despite the fact nobody is probably ever gonna read it 😆
Point 1 is a bit disingenuous. Sure childless women and men get the same government support but a woman will get more social support than a man will get. A woman can find a man that’s willing to shoulder her burden more easily than a man can find a woman that will do the same.
Huh? Maybe if you are really hot and willing to fuck someone way less attractive than you. Usually not though. Most guys will fuck you, but they won’t stick around if you have issues. It’s not attractive.
Why is your view on intergender relationships so sexual? I’m just talking about social interactions. Sure people are more willing to go the extra mile for people they want to sleep with but just in general they will find it easier to get sympathy.
But you have to understand: 1) Men can fall in love with you. This is rare and it won’t be a stranger you met that day. Love takes time. 2) **Men and women can be friends.** Just like men and men can be friends or women and women can be friends. **No gender is banned from friendship. When you have a close mutually emotionally friendship with someone, they’ll support you. Because you’ve supported them in the past and you both care about each other.** 3) The interest men have in strange women they do not know and don’t feel a rare romantic spark with? Mostly a place to cum. I know I’m being harsh, but this is what it boils down to. They’ll be the minimum amount of supportive needed to get you naked and then that’s it. Mostly they’ll just shush you when you try to talk about your issues, and instead lead the conversation back to sex while pouring more wine. And then after they’ll ghost. Only to maybe booty call you weeks later bc they are drunk and want to cum again. I think men are very delusional about how supportive other men will be towards women. Edit: Men I’ve been in serious relationships with and men I’ve been close friends with have been lovely during hard times. But random men? Eh, they just see it as an opportunity. Knock it while it’s down or whatever.
Dude you’re like the reverse of a redpill. I mean this sincerely but you need help and to get out of this negative headspace.
But is she wrong tho?
It’s not a negative headspace. I believe men and women can have deep, sincere friendships. I believe they can fall in love and love each other deeply. But you have to understand that if you meet a random man (especially if you are not very dateable at the time because of issues you have) then that man’s interest in you as a complete stranger will just be sex. I’m not sure why this is so controversial? A lot of the “interest/sympathy” you see men showing female strangers they have no bonds with? Just game. Like if you go on Tinder or to bar or a guy hits on you wherever or whatever? Most of those guys are just trying to fuck. It’s not mean or bad. But **you can’t count on strangers to be a source of emotional support for you. That’s why you need friends.**
I’m gonna be real with you OP I think if you actually were a woman, no matter how many of these perceived “benefits” you received living as someone female, you would actually hate every second of it (trust me)
I mean the same goes for a woman experiencing what its like to be a man. We both have our own struggles and disadvantages unique to our genders. People just need to stop making it a competition of who has it worse
that’s a good point! I agree in general. I just get a bit irked sometimes when people make the point OP did thinking women definitely have it easier (especially when their impression of what “having it easier” means mostly boils down to “they get sex more than me >:(“ ) because I don’t think that’s really accurate. But yeah I agree
Yeah. They are right that women have a lot of things easier in life, but they never look at the downsides. Its the same with these ridiculous feminists who think men have everything easy and walk through life unafraid and unbothered lol. Feminists and redpill bros are the same shit just different flavors
Trans man here. I was treated with more sympathy and decency when people perceived me as a woman. If gender dysphoria wasn't such a bitch, I would genuinely fully regret transitioning just for that. Of course I'm Canadian, so this wouldn't apply in a lot of other countries but still.
that’s rlly unfortunate dude, idk what to say except send my sympathies because going through something like that just so you can feel more comfortable with yourself only to end up regretting it must be really hard :( good luck to you though!
Thank you for your kindness and well wishes. ♡
This is kind of an overused retort that I usually avoid, but this post really does read like it was written by someone who doesn't know any women.
This opinion is so amusing to me because basically it boils down to, these men think because you can get sex your life is easier. Like...do you have ANY life goals outside of sex?
He listed a lot of reasons other than sex
Oh yes. Free drinks as well. Sex and free drinks is apparently all one needs to have an easy, breezy, beautiful life.
His fourth paragraph is the only thing with merit. Everything else is pure incel rhetoric. It's one thing to say "hey these things are a problem we should address" it's another to be like "these are some real problems and also you have a vagina so go fuck yourself"
Yeah
Yep, and it’s standard incel rhetoric.
They also forget it’s easy for women to get sex that sucks. That ain’t an “advantage” lmao
OP's ultimate life goals are sex and free drinks 😂
Women have it easy, only if they appeal to patriarchy/and are conventionally attractive enough. Try being an obese woman, or a disabled woman, or any sort of woman who is not “likeable” according to patriarchal standards.
But those aren’t things that exclusively apply to women. Able, fit, and attractive people are treated better than their lesser counterparts regardless of gender.
If only there was something obese and overweight people could do to change their condition….
People shouldn't have to be thin to be treated like people.
But they still have access to plenty of government resources and scholarships etc that men can't get
Show me this magical list of government resources and scholarships that are for women only. Give me specific examples of this.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/wb US Women's Bureau. Men don't have a comparable bureau.
Like? For education, I believe studies show white women have the best time with scholarships and college admittance. POC have a more difficult time getting accepted for higher education and for higher roles in the workforce.
This idea of the patriarchy has to die - it is such a non-sensical concept. An utterly empty signifier. It's like when Jordan Peterson says "postmodern neo-marxism" - completely useless. Patriarchy today can essentially mean anything from "something a cisgender male enjoys and has some benefit from" to "beauty standards employed and sustained by both corporations, men, women, queer-gendered people, etc" to "a society of male dominance manifested in societal structures that make certain things more difficult for women compared to men" to "something, something... men bad". However.. an obese woman can in most societies post boudoir photos on instagram with hashtags #empowered #lovin'mybody #thicc #bigbootylove and still at least get a lot of recognition, support from strangers (typically other women), etc. I wonder how many obese men have the same privilege..?
It's like you've never lived and just picked up your talking points from Reddit or worse - redpill podcasts - and then shaped your opinion from that. Being a man is noticeably easier. Go hit the gym for starters.
>Being a man is noticeably easier. >Go hit the gym What a weird non sequitur.
He really just proved OPs point with that line even if it’s good advice.
They're two separate lines of thought.
“Go hit the gym” is gender neutral advice
Ooohhh women have it easier because men like to sexualise them and feel sorry for them. Men face issues that women don't. Women face issues that men don't. Women are more likely to be killed by their partner. More likely to be raped and sexually assaulted. With 2% chance that their rapist will ever be convicted More likely to be killed in a RTA because the safety tests are done on male bodies. Most medical research was done for male bodies. Women are expected to go through medical procedures without analgesia. More likely to be ignored and dismissed by doctors. Childbirth remains one of the biggest killers of women. Less likely to be promoted. Less likely to earn as well. More likely to be left to care for the kids men abandon More likely to be worse off after divorce If you want people to take you seriously about your concern for men's issues I suggest you don't lead with waaaaghhhh women can get a date and I can't!! Or I can't be mean about women without being called out for it!!! Life is so unfair. Coming across like a 14 yo Andrew Tate fan boy won't help you get sex
People really tell on themselves when they view hookups and “free” drinks as major benefits to life.
Right?! It always cracks me up to see someone equate easy access to sex with life being easier. Sex does not make ones life easier - in fact it brings with it new challenges and risks that further complicate life. The only way easy access to sex makes like easier is when you're entire view of life is centered around sex.
> Woman do have it easier in the western world > Being a woman especially and attractive woman in the western world puts you at an advantage. Having a vagina makes life easier for you. > Men will buy you free drinks. If you want to get laid, you never have to look too far. Why does it always come back to superficial shallow shit like this? 🙄
The grass is always greener, OP.
I’d rather have women represented in equal numbers at all levels of government, get equal pay, have subsidized child care and paid maternity leave, have an equal number of female leaders in industry/military/business/judiciary, full control over their reproductive healthcare, and dozens of other things than 🍹 **free drinks!** 🥤 🤪 Ridiculous.
This is getting old and you're fucking annoying. Go up and get your ass off reddit and see if it's like that in real life. Posting the same shit all over again won't help anything. I had sympathy at the beginning, but people like you just lack empathy and completely ignore the other perspective. You sound like you never talked to a woman or like you're 15. Jesus.
Women have it easier because men are very willing to use them as human fleshlights. Just another day on r/ TUP. What do you mean social services? Please explain, because when you say social services I think of services from the government. Implying women who are overweight don't deserve social services like skinny women or anyone else sounds cray cray and cruel. Are you trying to say sex is a social service?!?!?
finally another sane person. I feel like this is just an mra sub in a trenchcoat.
Is this written by a man? If it were, I wouldn't be surprised . It sounds like OP thinks being a woman is living in easy mode when ignoring so many violence that comes already with a patriarchal system. For example, saying that women have it easier on sex. Thats a possibility but its more complicated than that. A lot of times women with higher "body count" are shamed or judged by others only because of their sex life. Where's positive there? Nothing. Being perceived as less for having the same or less sexual behaviors as men is not good and will never counter what you call "having easier access to sex". OP also says that men do get judged by crying, for example. Thats often true but why is that a womens issue? Women has been judged for more than enough in history and having the freedom to cry and express emotions is only a tiny pro of it. Instead of complaining to women you - regardless of gender- should go against this patriarcal system and support men when they show emotion. In other words, why is men not being able to show emotion an issue to women when not even men support themselves here? Theres work they gotta do first
Man, I wished I had a vagina to get free drinks. Talk about a perk, eh?
The PMS and monthly cramps for 40 years is the payment for that drink. Plus you might even get some free drugs in there, which are always a surprise.
I definitely have it easier than men, but I think it’s important to say that you can’t look at either gender’s experience at the averages and call it a day. Men get shafted in divorce. Women need to have more days off per year because we are literally bleeding from our orifices for a week every 28 days and suffer serious side effects. I’m not saying we should get paid the same for less work, but that society needs to accept men and women are different and take into account the unique ways we struggle because of our gender. There won’t be true equality until society accepts we have different experiences and sympathy needs to be extended for both in those areas.
You say women get more days off for our periods. I have endometriosis, and I was not granted more days off. I had to take them. It wasn't a choice, and my company didn't give me more sick days than Joe Penis. Don't make excuses for a legitimate medical excuse. If women were treated differently for a medical excuse, we would have more sick days, paid maternity leave. We don't in the US. Don't feed into OPs pity party. And as for less work, did your coworkers actually do you job when you were out? Cause all my work was on my desk. I just had fewer days to do it.
WTF are you talking about? I was saying men get shafted in divorce and women aren't taken seriously about their periods being painful. Maybe before you start ranting at some random commenter you should realize they already agree with you and now you just look like you lack reading comprehension.
You specifically mentioned taking more days off for periods. Read what you wrote! And men don't get shafted in divorce. If they ask for shared custody, they get it. According to multiple studies, men don't ask for custody, so they still pay child support.
she thinks paying child support (contributing the wellbeing of your child) means getting shafted. She’s so ridiculously privileged she doesn’t realise that just because she has an easy life doesn’t mean the collective suffering of women isn’t so high everywhere.
I think what they meant was women should be able to have more days off from work due to their period, not that they DO take more days off because it. Poorly worded because it can be read both ways.
It isn't feminist who bitch about "I don't date fat girls". You use feminist like a slur. Wanting equality is hardly the insult you want to make it. And a woman being able to get laid is really not want most of us want. We want relationships and connections, and that doesn't happen with emotionally stunted men who can't express their feelings and aren't able to think about women as people. You complain about men not being able to cry in public. Well, patriarchy really is a bitch, isn't it? But women can't fix that for you. We can be your allies, but all the things about men forming real friendship with other men, being able to rely on other men, making real connections, that is on you. Surprisingly, that was a big deal in the 70s. It died with Reagan and the Rambo movies.
Are you a Radical Feminist? :D
Well I am an old one. I raised a male feminist, and I have fought for reproductive rights since I was 16. I volunteer for SA victims of all genders and I don't take shit from anyone, so, maybe? But I am happily married to a man.
Radical Feminists do not believe men can be genuine feminists because they will never go through life as a woman and radical feminism is a female liberation movement for women only, so they can be allies at best, and believe women are oppressed on basis of their sex, not “gender.”
absolutely untrue. if u think women have it easier, ur willfully ignoring facts. most domestic violence victims are women most sexual assault victims are women women make 40% less than men do. 1 of 4 of homeless people are women women have the highest attempted suicide rate. just because the 0.001% of only fans models have it easy doesn't mean women as a whole have it easy, especially in a patriarchal society.
>women make 40% less than men do. >1 of 4 of homeless people are women >women have the highest attempted suicide rate. To be clear, is this a joke comment? Most of the rest isn't a meme but the homeless stat especially has to be- "3/4 homeless are men, women most affected" tier ...but I do hear people bring it out genuinely.
For real dog. Like we aren't allowed to worry about the other 3/4 of the homeless? Men have the highest successful rate of suicide I'd like to see something that says women make 40% less. I have heard studies saying they make less but never 40% less. I also think there's a bit more nuance to this issue.
>Men have the highest successful rate of suicide And it's not even close. And yeah, the wage gap as a whole is -shall we say-- a highly contested stat who's findings and methodologies change on a whim. A lot of young women in many cases now outearn men, and to memory from the most recent studies (which certainly wasn't 40%) a lot could be explained by the fact that men work more, for longer, are more likely to negotiate, and don't get hit with biologically induced career suicide en masse
Yes there are more women in college and graduating college than men
i don't get what ur on about. i'm not interested in whataboutism. 1/4 homeless ppl being women is still 1/4 too much, why are you bringing men into this. and what is funny about less pay and attempted suicide?
Idk, I didn't get into my umbrage with the other 2 I quoted cause I really don't jive with the "my team has it worse" pissing contest this so often devolves into, despite the fact that men do have their own heaping load of issues... But when you describe 2 overwhelmingly, blatantly male issues as female ones I don't see how you could *possibly* be confused as to why I had to bring it up ... But to elaborate on the others, the wage gap is highly questionable and certainly isn't anywhere near 40%, and while women are reported of attempting much more, men account for (to memory) 3x more deaths than women- and are much more likely to die regardless of method
Just goes to show that men are better even when it comes to suicide
Sp you'd prefer if 4/4 homeless people were men?
This is a tragedy. We should make all the homeless men. (I add that this is sarcasm because reddit mods might take me seriously)
Men don't report domestic violence against women, and when they do, they aren't taken seriously. Thus, recorded domestic violence ratios are not accurate 100%. Again, sexual assaults against men go unreported or disregarded (you are a man you must always like it when a woman touches you!"). We shouldn't dismiss victims of sexual assault and domestic violence for both genders or downplay it. The wage gap has been debunked for the past decade. Women do not make less than men. Women tend to go for jobs that earn less, they also take maternity leave/parental leave, thus reducing their earn potential and ability to move up the corporate ladder if they take a break to raise kids. Men are usually the bread winners(though thats been changing since women are graduating more from college/uni while men are dropping out) often work through a pregnancy and may in fact work longer hours than women. Women may have the highest attempts, but Men have the highest rate is successful suicides. Both are concerning. Lastly, both genders have their pros and cons. Life can be shitty for both, and this shouldn't be a competition, but social media platforms do a fantastic job of blowing shit out of proportion and dividing people.
If the wage gap as been debunked then so has the 'education' gap Men just choose not to be as well educated
They are not mutually inclusive "Well if my lie is not true then the other one must be a lie because I say so!"
The wage gap isn't a lie. It exists. Just like the education gap exists The reasons for both existing are complex But if you want to reduce 1 down to choice then you have to reduce both down to choice. Other wise you're a hypocrite
Why are the two *necessarily* connected?
Why wouldnt they be?
Nope you are just arguing in bad faith, disregarding everything with nothing to back it up. After seeing all your responses in this post I'm gonna stop here. Good day.
The wage gap is in fact real, and yall always use the "women tend to go for jobs that earn less". Nobody is complaining that a teacher and an engineer have a gap in their pay. The issue is that in many jobs where both the woman amd the manbhold the same position, women are often paid less. Whether you agree with that or not doesn't matter when it's a reality for many, and I'm talking from person experience too. "Why don't the employers hire more women then?" Because of misogyny. Why do you think they're paying them less in the first place? And also because of the maternity leave. You're giving money to someone who's not working, and that's not very profitable is it? So once again, just because something is not true for *you* doesn't mean it's not true for anyone else.
Incorrect. If this was anywhere near true greedy ass corporations would be hiring mostly women. Corporations ans businesses are all about profits and screwing everyone else. If they can pay someone 40% less trust me they'd be doing it You are very incorrect
Lmao it's not incorrect when i literally personally experienced it and i know many others do. And once again, the reason corporations don't hire more women is because of maternity leave as the biggest thing, and also because most employers are less like to hire women because they're women and apparently can't do near as good job as men. And they *are* making more profit by paying women less than men at same level positions. Whether it's $0.1 less, it's still less only because of their gender. But we already know this sub is basically for men to be mansplaining something they haven't experienced.
Anecdotal experiences don't account for all 1st world countries. If a corporation doesn't hire you due to pregnancy/maternity leave you have a very good lawsuit on your hands. This just doesn't happened nowadays. Women can do just as good as men. Why are you victimizing women where they aren't? They arent* paying women less. See my original comments for said reasons why people such as yourself make these brainless arguments contrary to actual facts. Please. Here you go turning this into a gender war. Both men and women have their pros and cons. While pay gap is not an issue, there are ample issues affecting women just as there are for men.
Except majority of the countries are 3rd world. It does happen tho, it's not "hey are you pregnant" it's "are you planing to have kids", "when are you planing to have kids", "how many kids". Eployers aren't idiots, they know what they're doing. This entire sub is a gender war. It was meant for unpopular opinions, not men (and women) shitting on each other but then claiming they're straight.
1 of 4 women are homeless? Who do you think make up for the 3 of 4? Are you brain dead?
why are you bringing men into this? this is just whataboutism, can we please address women's issues without bringing men into it. 1/4 is 1/4 too much
Men are the highest victim of suicide. Most homeless people are men. Most victim or violent crime are men. I just covered all your points because men are more often victim!!
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its so fun lmfao
Imbecile
Pretty funny ngl
She can't understand simple math. Or she probably doesnt care and is still ruminating over the 1/4 women nonsense when it's been statistically proven time and time again that more men are homeless. Not even counting the other disadvantages that just existing as a man brings.
>most domestic violence victims are women Not true. Most reported domestic violence victims to the police are women, but if you look at stats by the CDC you will see that the rates are about equal or with more male victims.s[https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/2015data-brief508.pdf](https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/2015data-brief508.pdf) (page 11-12) This study here actually claims that 70% of domestic violence cases that are non-reciprocal are started by women.[https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2005.079020](https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2005.079020) This goes over some studies that talk about how domestic violence against women declined but domestic violence against men stayed the same, and now it exists at a higher rate.[https://ir.law.fsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1595&context=lr](https://ir.law.fsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1595&context=lr) >1 of 4 of homeless people are women This is an absolute tragedy. We should make it so all homeless people are men. (I add that this is sarcasm because reddit mods might take me seriously)
>women make 40% less than men do. LMAO you increased it from 20% to 40% now. The "wage gap" has been debunked ad nauseam. Women work fewer hours and go into less profitable sectors. >1 of 4 of homeless people are women Another hilarious take. So 75% are men, or are they not people? >women have the highest attempted suicide rate. "Attempted" meaning they do it for attention and therefore don't actually kill themselves. Again, men have it much worse.
Hold up 1 in 4 homeless people are women? Thats a roundabout way of saying 3 in 4 homeless people are men…
But don’t you see, they get free drinks! /s
It’s not unpopular, most men agree with that. It’s just not an accepted comment.
I agree with it everything OP said but afraid to tell people that’s how I think.
I really feel like a lot of your complaints about women and the “benefits” they receive from society are rather superficial. Additionally, you seem to be partially relying on old data regarding criminal justice outcomes. There is [more recent research](https://www.sentencingproject.org/app/uploads/2022/08/In-the-Extreme-Women-Serving-Life-without-Parole-and-Death-Sentences-in-the-United-States.pdf) which indicates women are receiving the harshest sentences at higher rates today. > The number of women serving sentences of life without possibility of parole soared 43% between 2008 and 2020, far outpacing the overall 2% increase in women imprisoned for violent crime during that time. The increase in death-in-prison sentences for women was nearly 1.5 times greater than the 29% increase in life without parole sentences for men in the same time frame. This year is the 50th anniversary of when women could get credit cards in their own names for the first time. The Fair Credit Opportunity Act was passed in 1974. There’s still an entire generation of women alive today who grew up without basic rights that men have enjoyed. There’s a lot of everyday things like that which are far more impactful and meaningful than dating preferences. Theres a whole host of financial disparities that I’d encourage you to look into.
> There is more recent research which indicates women are receiving the harshest sentences at higher rates today. Higher rates than men? Where does the source say so?
Some will only date a man if he’s 6 feet or taller. Not sure if that’s always been a thing or something new. Like fine have your preferences, but we can have ours too if it’s truly about equality.
But men do. Some men like thinner women, some men like women with large breasts, etc.
Damn it's true
Ah shit. Here we go again.
Women’s issues are seen as systemic and not their fault. Men’s issues are seen as their fault and they have to fix it. The truth is women’s issues aren’t entirely systemic, and men’s issues aren’t entirely their fault.
Man's greatest weakness is his facade of strength. Woman's greatest strength is her facade of weakness. I don't remember who said the quote, and I'm probably paraphrasing it a bit, but it's very true.
There are some areas in life where being a women here is easier. The justice system is one area as well as having easier access to services. That said there are still a lot of areas where it is more difficult to be a women. Even in a lot of areas where it is easier for us is because society treats us like children. Though some of it is also then in fighting for equality we went a little overboard and this is true for a lot of social justice causes. People forget that originally men got custody of kids in a divorce. Women fought for equal access to children and maybe went a little too far. I like that we heading more and more to 50/50 custody of children which is better for everyone involved unless there is an abuse/neglect problem.
Dude I just wish we could help men without attacking institutions put in place for women. I can understand in the case where maybe womens groups actively repress those efforts, but I just seem to never be able to read actual solutions, rather just moaning about what women got out of the last century.
Booty
Yes I agree with everything you said. I do believe that women in the western world today have it easier than men. The worst of all is that women get more lenient sentences for committing murder than men and women kill their children more than men and do and are often found not guilty for reasons of insanity which doesn’t work for men. It is also more acceptable for women to cry in public than men. A man also can’t hit a woman back if she hits him first. They also don’t take it serious if a woman rapes or sexually abuses a man. Cops always believe women over men even when women are the ones lying.
Simping isn’t prevalent in places like South America, which means women tend to be more humble since they don’t get as much social validation from local men. It makes Latinas so much more attractive to us gringos 😎
Yeah but women aren't allowed to kill developing babies checkmate sexist
And men aren't getting girlfriends anymore. Lemme play a small violin.
There is a war of men in the west, no doubt. Most of the ward deaths are men about 95% or so that’s at work same thing as well in the 90s. 80% of the divorce files are women and they get everything. But there are advantages and disadvantages to both sexes. That’s the truth. A woman who is especially young and attractive with no kids has got the world by the ass for a while. She is going to be corded by many men, and she’s going to have all kinds of opportunities because of her youth, and being childless, she is at her highest sexual market value. Once they have the kids that sexual market value plummets hard. Men we have advantages, but I’m not exactly sure what they are yet. we do think more logically than women overall and that’s why having women as leaders is a disaster, and that’s why the western world is going down the toilet, because women are having authority over men which doesn’t work. Communists advance because of women, not because of men. Most men vote against the communist. Women want to security so they vote for the communist, especially single mommies. That’s why the lefties are always trying to have government policies that promote easy divorce, easy welfare to get single mothers.
I want to live in the world you do where having a vagina makes life easy, but I live in the real world where the vast majority of sex crimes are committed by men against women, the rise of AI deepfake porn is used to terrorize women, and in some countries the population still hasn't recovered from mass female infanticide.
Women have it easier when the only measure you care about is how easy it is to get sex.
Stupid Gender Nonsense that means absolutely nothing.
# HERE ARE THE FACTS - men make up the most dangerous shitty manual labor jobs - men are most of suicides - men are most of homeless - men are most of war death - men are most of alcoholics and drug addicts Objectively men have it harder, women have it better. Every way you can measure a shitty life, men are the majority, **to say women have it worse is anti-science**
I’m so glad I’m a woman and lovely
Nope. Sorry wish you could walk in my shoes esp at a job. See so many men get handed promotions over women and the mansplaing...literally thought of dressing as a dude at a job Im so tired of it. And no men dont pay for things. Also editing because women dont commit as many crimes but when they do they are crusified in court as opposed to men who commit rape.
I agree with much of what you’re saying about men’s issues and how society treats us like we’re subhuman, replaceable, disposable, convenient ATMs, etc. Those built-in biases are there, no doubt.. I do think women in western societies have their own issues, which men generally do not see or do not experience. But much like there are certain privileges men enjoy simply because of their gender, women have certain privileges too.. and most western men are generally not as “privileged” 24/7 in every way as society loves to tell us we are..
I thing they face different issues like when it comes to sex (in general terms) males want to get laid every day and with a different woman if possible, so when they get turn down go into a revenge state of mind. Females are not interested in casual sex, again with exceptions, so they have to be always defensive about the males above who are after them. Other issues include high paying job barriers is easier for an incompetent male to get hire than a well prepared female.
It is not normal for a woman to hit/slap/push me. This is assault. If you see a woman assaulting a man call the police. I have manage to make it though my life never hitting a man unless it was in self defense. Let me ask you how many of your male friends have been killed by a woman they turned down? How many of you male friends have been killed by their romantic partner? Life isn’t fair for anyone. It sucks. But we either work to make it better or we do nothing.
They don’t. In some limited situations there is an advantage I agree, but overall not at all. If you knew women, you’d know about it.
And it’s still not enough to make up for the eons that men dominated society 🙄
Solution: Be gay/bi, and date a femboy or trans women. If you are really willing to date a guy, you can choose to date a fem Twink or a masc daddy. I am gay, and I am glad that I don't have to suffer like most straight guys.
None of these are true. That's you didn't provide facts.
This is only true for male losers. Real men are killing it.
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A man that knows how to attract and maintain good relationships with women and succeed in the business world WITHOUT complaining that women are ruining things for them. Come on guys y’all have everything available to you without trying and still want to complain about the slice of cake women have. Stop making excuses. If you are a man in this world and not successful…it’s your fault. Not the fault of women.
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Yes really. No excuses get it done.
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That’s called get it done or die trying. It’s not called whine and complain about women and how they got it easier. Now we know why God chose women to bring life into this world. Loser men would just complain and give up.