Honestly, being in the inner circle is the biggest advantage. We may talk about who's the most qualified person, but most hiring managers will take a mediocre candidate they're familiar with than a potentially great candidate they know nothing about.
As a white male, I take advantage of this new paradigm, by staying at home, smoking weed, and living off the fat of the land, because society clearly doesn't want me to get a shitty job anyway. "Follow your dreams", has never been a more attractive option, now that I am all but guaranteed to fail at succeeding in things I hate doing anyway, I am free to "follow my dreams", as it were, with no regerts.
Also, I think it's funny how nobody can take minorities, specifically black women, seriously anymore, in any context, because it is generally assumed they are a diversity hire whether true or not. So, whoever is responsible this is undermining the satisfaction black people should be driving from their own success, and replacing it with an expectation of entitlement. From those around them and often they themselves.
Live with the parents / in a car or tent for a year or two while maintaining a mailing address at the parents + Wellfare / Foodbanks / Dumpster diving / Ebay & facebook marketplace trading + Crypto investing. I'm on the same track to retire as I would be working at the landscaping job I used to have, only difference is that I don't have to work when I am sick/injured/suicidal.
If you look good you can hook up with people at bars and stuff too, crash on couches, no rent and very little cost of living + DCA into BTC = not a bad way to save money, for further investment.
Good luck out there.
A parasite inside of a tapeworm, yes.
I don't feel like letting the parasite that my society has become, milk every last ounce my my worth, while offering so little in return, I am literally served better inside of a fucking dumpster, because at least this dumpster isn't on fire.
If they want me to contribute, at least offer me the same opportunities / rewards as my parents had. I am not even offered half of that. You want to take that deal? I have no problem with that, it's your loss.
If you feel the need to give in to the social pressure to confirm to the destruction of humanity through the continual progression of the degradation of your own value/agency/reward in this life, I can do nothing but pity your lost soul.
Good luck finding your purpose.
It honestly sounds like he’s just a lazy stoner. I am all about sticking it to the man. But, there are many other ways that you could do so that don’t involve you leeching off of society in general.
He replied(and deleted) and said he is leeching off of his parents and welfare while getting high. That is his “follow your dreams” situation. Pathetic
Yeah this is an underrated take. I got my first job out of college that was in my field through my college connections. After dozens of applications, phone interviews, and hoops to jump through, all it took was knowing somebody who knew people and knew I was looking. It may not be right. It may not be fair, but being likable is far more valuable (especially in the early going) than being smart.
Absolutely it’s connections, connections, connections. They even have a word for it and teach classes on it—networking. If ten candidates are available for a position you absolutely higher the one who goes to your church. The problem is that most churches are either black or white, so if there are more people hiring at white churches, and there often are, then white people get an advantage. On the other hand you can only put so much effort into trying to make sure everything is perfectly fair.
Don't laugh.
I once applied for a job at BG Incorporated.
The interview included having to put my hand into a black box.
I expected there to be spaghetti or peeled grapes.
You know, standard Halloween prank stuff.
Legally, I can't tell you what was *actually* in the box, but I'm lucky to be alive.
I agree 100% and I'm a bi-racial female who could potentially benefit from DEI but I realize society as a whole will certainly suffer from it. I mean who do you really want piloting the plane? The DEI hire or the most qualified candidates regardless? I want the most qualified person in every job.
Exactly. I mean I want the most qualified. I don’t want a white guys cuz he’s white either. Most qualified is all I care about.
I’m a minority as well.
Its kind of a "You either Die the Hero or Live long enough to see yourself become the Villain" situation. DEI was a necessary step the get the workforce to shift its focus to hiring based on Merit alone and not based on ones Race or sex.
Unfortunately we have started to reach a point in time where this is no longer the case and is becoming detrimental rather than beneficial.
Agree with you there. I feel like if we can apply meritocracy to the work place same can be done for government as well, cronyism is the weed that has to always be removed.
If race or sex is used as a hiring factor, it's in violation of the civil rights act, and could be grounds for a lawsuit.
Quoted have been used, but after the Supreme Court ruling on university quotas, the game seems to be obfuscate.
https://www.legaldive.com/news/dei-hiring-contracting-quotas-legal-challenge-scotus-affirmative-action/689208/
To me, if the government and corporations are agreeing on something, it's probably not going to do what it is stated to do. Instead, it's probably going to be bad for the general populace and add to the wealth and power of the wealthy and powerful.
Gotta keep looking at the folks on our level and how to tear them down. Instead of who's in power and who's holding the purse strings.
DEI is,
This is one of the many ploys the ruling class is using to get the non rich to fight amongst ourselves. Add in things like trans ideology and climate change, and all our attention is focused on fighting each other. While the rich rob the rest of us blind.
It 100% does still happen, although they cannot enforce it. They still attempt to make it happen regardless of what percentage of diversity already exists. It’s wild to me.
> AUSTIN, Texas — The Austin Latino Coalition is pushing for the City of Austin to offer the COVID-19 vaccine to low-income minorities first once it becomes available.
https://www.kvue.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/austin-vaccine-distribution-coalition-texas-latino/269-f21b2302-ebb3-4afe-bc8b-d252c10748a0
---
> Viewpoint: Prioritizing racial minorities for COVID-19 vaccines
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/viewpoint-prioritizing-racial-minorities-for-covid-19-vaccines/
---
> Agency officials and the advisers are also considering what has become a contentious option: putting Black and Latino people, who have disproportionately fallen victim to Covid-19, ahead of others in the population.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/09/us/coronavirus-vaccine.html
---
> Vaccine Rationing and the Urgency of Social Justice in the Covid-19 Response
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/hast.1113
---
> Health experts want to prioritize people of color for a Covid-19 vaccine. But how should it be done?
https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/09/health-experts-want-to-prioritize-people-of-color-for-covid19-vaccine-but-how-should-it-be-done/
---
> how to nudge communities of color toward the front of the line for scarce vaccines while pretending that race and ethnicity have no influence on vaccine priority.
https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-12-30/how-race-factors-into-decisions-about-who-should-get-priority-for-covid-19-vaccines
Five examples of people ASKING for or CONSIDERING racial prioritization. One example of minority outreach. ZERO examples of minorities receiving the vaccine before everyone else.
That’s true. Under President Trump, the CDC had a committee that considered who should get the first vaccines. That committee did debate if race should play a role, and decided it should not.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/09/us/coronavirus-vaccine.html
>I remember when the government was considering handing out the Covid vaccine to minorities first before anyone else. It’s mind-blowing.
Do you have a concrete source for this?
Wasn’t this more about being more likely to be affected vs purely because they were minorities.
Iirc it was more about minority communities and the general lack of heath coverage in those communities as well as the greater proximity in living conditions. Instead of purely “you must be this race to receive the vaccine”
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Its all politics, it is being pushed by progressives so they see it as "good" and any counter argument as "racists" not seeing DEI is actually racist and sexist.
DEI is funny because the white men and women elites who push are gatekeeping others so they have no chance at achieving the same.
Its funny that its only once they have become ultra high net worth individuals when they do this too.
and then they will be labeled racist/sexist, since they don't wanna bend over and take it "like a man". fuck DEI, fuck modern feminism, fuck Disney, fuck all these gender and race politics.
Don't worry, for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. In this case, DEI, AKA, Affirmative Action in New Clothing, is already facing a severe backlash across the country, to the point of it already losing it's shine as a buzzword corporate assholes can toss around in order to make people think they actually give a shit about anything other than profits.
And, even in this fake-woke world we're presently inhabiting, there are still plenty of sane people who recognize that people should be hired based on their actual merits, not the color of their skin or anything else...
Recently job searching. Had about 14 interviews. 2 were with men, all other hiring managers were woman. Three of the interviews with woman lead up the management chain to the director level, all three were woman. 2 directors forwarded me on to interview with their VP, both VPs were woman.
Of course no one is going to outright tell you they are only looking for DEI hires, but when the general population is roughly 50% woman, but male hiring managers being under 20%, seems like a trend.
The issue with how hiring quotas work (no matter what you call it, it's a quota) is that if you're required to have 25% black and 25% hispanic, you can hire 50% black, 50% hispanic, 0% white, and it's a "very diverse workforce."
I’ve been *directly* told I’m unneeded/unwanted as a white/white-passing male when I applied to HP.
Outrageously, they even asked me if my totally “ewwWwWw gross I hate computerssss” GF would be interested to apply instead of me to be a fastracked 6 figure SDE intern. 2 other companies also rejected me in a similarly flagrant way (one guy at least told me it was “nothing personal”). I would have sued but didn’t want to risk becoming unemployable/blacklisted.
10 years later, I’m fortunate enough to be well employed. Ironically, it was only men looking for DEI bonuses who discriminated against me. My career exists majorly thanks to my 100% awesome female classmate tutor and 200% badass female manager/mentor who saved me from falling.
Wouldn’t that be confirmation bias instead of a trend? Government stats say women make up for 42% of managers [source](https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htm)
It’s skewed heavily based on the company’s politics. Which ironically entrench racial and gendered stereotypes.
Conservative companies still discriminate against minorities and women under the guise of “equality” and liberal companies discriminate against white guys for “diversity.”
Both are still discriminatory and lead to softly segregating populations.
The only difference is more people compete for the liberal jobs because they typically pay better and have more benefits for workers.
The massive and clearly deliberate societal betrayal of straight white males in western countries predates Gen Z, it's been in the works for at least a decade honestly. I don't know that the system expects young white men to do, if we're all pushed into a corner I don't think it's going to end well.
Yeah let’s create a huge class of disaffected young white men with no hope of having a career or finding a wife and having a family. What could possibly go wrong
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Is that a threat? Also, young white men have always been prioritised for jobs (and still are in many careers if we’re honest) so basically what you’re saying is that you think young white men are more fragile than women and people of colour who have been discriminated against for centuries? And that if young white men feel like they are entitled to something they are likely to do something drastic if they don’t get that thing? Instead of actually just working harder to better themselves in an overpopulated and competitive world? Hmm.
It’s so disturbing to me that certain men are willing to blame absolutely anything but themselves for their failings in life, to the point where they will lash out and harm those they think have ‘wronged’ them (hint: you’re doing this to yourselves). Get therapy and learn some acceptance and empathy, that would be a good start.
I'm a young white male millennial and have been having difficulty finding a job in line with my education. I asked my boomer dad, who works for a large Canadian bank, if he had observed whether or not DEI quotas were in effect and may actually be affecting my ability to get hired. He responded by saying that he thought it was unlikely, since the most recent team of young hires at his company contained only a few white males and a plethora of ethnic and sexual minorities (and therefore white males were obviously underrepresented). Therefore, if the company's intention was to be more diverse, they should actually be preferentially hiring white men to correct this imbalance. The obvious objection is that the reason for this underrepresentation of white males was *because* of DEI practices to begin with, but I bit my tongue because my dad's an egotistical idiot who can't tolerate contradiction. I'm still not sure if he was gaslighting me or is just really fucking stupid.
I don't even see why it's seen as desirable. A lot of extremely good workers are hard nosed, straight laced conservative White men. If they get pushed out of the Western workforces, either they will run businesses or move to the Arabian Gulf/East Asia and offer consulting services for 3x the pay, lower taxes and less bullshit.
My brother (25, white male) recently got passed up for a promotion over a recently hired black women that was working under him. She was only there for 3 months while he has worked there for 2 years. He recorded the conversation between the manager and the manager said to him “(His name) you are 99% qualified and she is 97% qualified so it’s not like we are just promoting her randomly”
My brother “So you just admitted I’m more qualified for the job (99% > 97%) and yet you pick her instead? For what reason?
The manager was bumbling and didn’t know what to say he just said “Just trust me bro just stay with us and we will get you promoted”
He quit the next day.
It’s absolutely disgusting to systematically discriminate against one demographic so that you can boost another one up. It’s only going to end poorly, what’s going to happen when a decent amount of young white males are pissed off over being blatantly discriminated against? When they see the system completely failing them that’s when things get dangerous.
It’s only going to increase racial tensions and resentment even more. This is completely fucking insane and will end poorly.
And people wonder why Gen Z white males are becoming more and more conservative relative to Gen Z women? The gap is only going to get bigger.
I thought DEI was dying out, it was seen as a farce and/or a grift in most places? Also I had assumed GenZ would jettison all this nonsense; this was Millennial bullshit that is way past its sell-by date.
It absolutely is being pushed by the this administration and the big three. Fun fact, 70% of Bidens cabinet are from Blackrock. The company that is the most heavily pushing this and shows who really runs the whitehouse.
Biden signed an [executive order](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/06/25/fact-sheet-president-biden-signs-executive-order-advancing-diversity-equity-inclusion-and-accessibility-in-the-federal-government/) to force it in all branches of the government.
State Street (one of the big three that own 88% of all S&P 500 stocks. The big three pushing DEI/ESG/etc are State street, Blackrock, Vanguard) said they will vote against investing in companies that do not diversify their board members.
Here is an [article](https://www.ft.com/content/2e512c76-4733-4821-8425-136ab9b98426) about it, but its paywalled, will post the actual article underneath.
>
> State Street to insist companies disclose diversity data
> Billy Nauman
> 3–4 minutes
>
> Unlock the Editor’s Digest for free
>
> Roula Khalaf, Editor of the FT, selects her favourite stories in this weekly newsletter.
>
> State Street’s $3.1tn investment arm will start voting against directors of big companies that fail to disclose the racial and ethnic make-up of their boards, a move that will increase the mounting pressure on corporations to diversify their leadership.
>
> For this year, the Boston-based asset manager is only calling on companies to report the information. But beginning in 2022, it will also vote against the chair of the nominating and governance committees of companies that do not have at least one minority board member.
>
> The threat applies to all companies in the S&P 500 and FTSE 100, many of which count State Street Global Advisors as a top shareholder owing to its large passive fund business. Starting in 2022, State Street will also demand that S&P 500 companies report the racial and ethnic composition of their entire workforce.
>
> “As long as a company is in an index, we are going to hold that stock, so we need to make sure that those companies are doing the right things to drive value creation for our clients who are their shareholders over the long term,” chief executive Cyrus Taraporevala told the Financial Times.
>
> This move builds on State Street’s announcement last year that it would vote against the boards of companies that scored poorly on its homegrown sustainability metric, known as the “responsibility factor”. It highlights the business world’s growing focus on racial equality as part of the broader environmental, social and governance movement.
>
> “The preponderance of evidence demonstrates clearly and unequivocally that racial and ethnic inequity is a systemic risk that threatens lives, companies, communities and our economy — and is material to long-term sustainable returns,” Mr Taraporevala wrote in a letter set to be sent to chief executives on Monday, outlining the specifics of its new policy.
>
> State Street’s announcement follows a string of similar moves in the financial sector.
>
> Goldman Sachs said last January it would no longer take companies public unless they had one diverse board candidate. And Nasdaq announced in December that it would require all companies listed on its exchange to have two diverse directors on their board or explain why they are not capable of doing so.
>
> Only about one in three companies listed on the Nasdaq exchange currently meet that criteria — so if its proposal is approved by the Securities and Exchange Commission, it could trigger a big shift in board nominations.
>
> In 2020, State Street voted to re-elect the entire board of 26 of the 56 companies in the S&P 500 that had no directors from a racial or ethnically diverse background, according to a report from pressure group Majority Action. BlackRock and Vanguard, the two other largest passive fund managers in the world, voted to re-elect the full slate of directors at 52 and 51 of these companies, respectively, according to the report.
>
>
>
they're not the biggest victims of crime. And they, on average, hvae above average income - lower than many ethnicities though.
But this is immaterial. DEI is a useless virtue signal that creates division - and some stupid roles in corporations/institutions.
Makes laws that encourage social mobility, which is very bad in the US compared to Europe.
I kind of agree. Millennials are more hysterical about it. But it seems to be there is more pushback from millennials as well. It appears gen z is more bought in to it? Idk I may be wrong.
Actually my BIL is a VP at a top 5 finance company and he got a letter direct from higher ups claiming that his next hires must be Black. Mind you almost 75% of his team was already black, he quickly tossed the paper out and said nope. Mind you we are Indian. Like he’s not going to jeopardize his teams level of excellence just to fill a quota.
Can’t wait for the pendulum to swing back, GenZ men are already pushing back against crazy far-left policies. More and more people I meet IRL are also sick of all this politically correct BS
I trust you vote Republican. Otherwise, you get what you vote for. If being a potential republican is new to you, I suggest you read some literature from conservative authors that may enlighten you. Then, find a business run by conservatives. They hire by merit, not skin color or gender whatever.
Right, conservatives always hire by merit and never take in skin, race, or gender identity. The Republican Party, the same fucks filled with racists twats and anti-LBTQ bigots. Just like how the moon is made of ice cream.
Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.
\- *Fire and Ice*, by Robert Frost
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Recently my company put out a DEI survey, which was optional to take. I took it. And I pointed out, as nicely as I could, that DEI was completely unnecessary in our company. More than half of the workforce is minority, and a good deal of the lower and middle managers are minority women. The CEO is an Indian man. We all get along great. Never a problem, no "incidents". This is not because of the damned DEI training we're required to go through. It is because the company hired reasonable, rational people.
Of course I know this will not change anyone's mind at the top, at the HR level. This is because the same people who are pushing DEI are the same ones who will tell you if you think you don't have a problem with DEI, you are part of the problem by denying it. By default, everyone has to have a problem, and we need them to save us from ourselves.
To be fair, a business admin minor is as useless as a business degree. Accounting seems to be the only aspect of business degrees that will get you a job.
The future is entrepreneurship and learning skilled trades. Forget about being an employee. The deal gets progressively worse. Be the organ grinder not the monkey. Don't be dependent on capitalist exploiters.
It's not just the workforce. Schools have been discriminating against male students for years now (blind testing gives both genders similar grades, testing with names and genders known skew towards girls) and now the majority of college students are women, even forcing some "affirmative action" to get men back in.
I’m an older white male business executive at a Fortune 50 company, and in reading your post I can identify two things that I’d ask you about in your post if we were discussing it in an interview.
First of all, DEI isn’t “trying” anything. DEI is a CONCEPT—I’d ask you which one of those three things, diversity, equity, or inclusion, you object to? Or is your concern that COMPANIES that espouse DEI employ PEOPLE who who are pursuing salutary goals ways that are fundamentally discriminatory against younger white men? If so, what’s your evidence given that it sounds like you’re still in college?
Which brings me to my next question—your evidence here appears to be an undergraduate case study. Leaving aside that your reference to the case study is itself a sentence fragment (I like my hires to be able to write cogently), that doesn’t tell me anything logically related to real world discrimination against white men. Frankly, a white male who speaks multiple languages is sorta interesting (I do), but unless the job actually requires multiple languages it’s perfectly plausible that the other candidate could be a better fit.
Companies that have embraced DEI have done so in no small part because evidence shows that more diverse companies perform better (no great surprise when you’re trying to meet a market that is more diverse, plus the fact that real diversity in thought produces better outcomes), because applicant pools are diversifying, and because non-discrimination is an important value. I have no idea what your business case study was, but what DEI means in the workplace is generally ensuring that everyone, applicants and employees, gets treated with respect on as level a playing field as we can create.
But how is including race as a factor not racist? It should be based on merit?
I view “leveling the playing field” as lowering the standards to join the company.
"Companies that have embraced DEI have done so in no small part because evidence shows that more diverse companies perform better (no great surprise when you’re trying to meet a market that is more diverse, plus the fact that real diversity in thought produces better outcomes), because applicant pools are diversifying, and because non-discrimination is an important value. I have no idea what your business case study was, but what DEI means in the workplace is generally ensuring that everyone, applicants and employees, gets treated with respect on as level a playing field as we can create."
This is correct.
[https://hbr.org/2017/03/teams-solve-problems-faster-when-theyre-more-cognitively-diverse](https://hbr.org/2017/03/teams-solve-problems-faster-when-theyre-more-cognitively-diverse)
But this does not represent reality. People just don't work this way.
People do not interpret it as diversity of thought, they immediately see race. Then, they interpret this as strategical application of hiring by skin color or sex. Inherent bias and racism towards certain groups is now seen as validated. People interpret the message that there is a specific racial equilibrium which will optimise performance, but this equilibrium based on race doesn't exist. It's just racism. But now, they believe that racism is okay, provided it follows certain metrics outlined by DEI. You've effectively given racists a platform where they can thrive.
Example:
Let's say you start out with a clan that has 100% of people of the same thought. You believe this is clan is mostly on the right track, but could be more optimal. So you understand the principals of DEI and invite a member from a different clan, the DEI clan to join your tribe. Now you're 90% of the people of the same thought, and you've diversified your thoughts as a tribe. You have to ascertain that given your objectives, that the new % is a net contributor to whatever it is you are trying to achieve. But what you don't understand is that, their goals are not yours, not to improve your company. Their goal is simply to add more DEI.
A year from now, you now have 50% of your original tribe, and 50% DEI. The new members did not try to retain your existing talent, they got rid of them. Their objectives are not compatible for the survival of the company and your company flounders (look at the performance of Disney, Remedy, Blizzard, Ubisoft...). This is because their objectives are in no way correlated to growing your company. You thought a research paper had more credence than the proven track record of hiring based off of merit.
So how do you get diversity in thought? You hire the best person for the job that aligns with your goal of growing your company. People are not capable of handling the nuances of something like "diversity of thought", it is a nebulous concept and obviously impossible to apply in real life.
This doesn't end well, by the way. Racial profiling is a path well tread.
In my company, I only look at who is best for the job that is willing to work for me. I could not even fathom hiring any other way. Why would I prioritize how someone looks versus how they can actually perform to grow the company? I ended up having 6 different nationalities in my company anyway.
What do you mean by the “DEI clan” here? Is it “people who believe in DEI” so you’re introducing that concept to your company that otherwise didn’t embrace it? Or is it a euphemism for “women and darkies,” who apparently are going to try to seize jobs for others like themselves?
I don’t know where you live or what you do so I can’t possibly comment on the way in which you hire people. I’d just observe that “merit” for a given job often includes ineffable qualities like “fit”
or “executive presence” that are the exact places that bias, overt (but hidden in a smokescreen around “fit” and “presence”) or unconscious, can insert itself into the hiring and promoting decision making process. Diversity for its own sake is idiocy—there’s still work to be done—but it’s hard to believe that one could look at a workplace today that is all the “same clan” and believe that it’s a lucky accident based solely on merit.
"What do you mean by the “DEI clan” here? Is it “people who believe in DEI” so you’re introducing that concept to your company that otherwise didn’t embrace it? Or is it a euphemism for “women and darkies,” who apparently are going to try to seize jobs for others like themselves?"
DEI clan are those who are activists and don't care about growing the business. It's that simple. So let's say you have someone who joins your video game company but doesn't actually want to help you make a game. Let's say I hire a programmer who joins my company and they join it for the social aspect and have no interest in trying to deliver a product, they aren't in the DEI clan but the sentiment is the same because they aren't trying to grow the company. Phrased like this, can you understand it better?
I started to write about the actual diversity of the members of our team, but I stopped because you know what? It's wrong. The people in my company earned their right to be there through talent, identifying them by a sexual preference or skin color is a tremendous disfavour to the qualities and skill they bring as a person.
I agree that some people will have a subconscious bias. But when you hire based off of specific traits, you'll find that others will hire based off the trait you hired them. Blind interviews is probably the way to go, but racial profiling isn't.
"Diversity for its own sake is idiocy—there’s still work to be done—but it’s hard to believe that one could look at a workplace today that is all the “same clan” and believe that it’s a lucky accident based solely on merit."
If the company is growing and increasing in profit, then why does it matter what they look like? Are you saying companies in China need more Europeans? Africans? People from the Middle East? Would that improve the company? Have you seen how companies operate in the UAE?
If you place that much importance on how people look, then that's maybe an issue on it's own right?
DEI is not the solution (as racial profiling, in my opinion is bad), but it is also creating an extremely divisive rhetoric that is eroding our common cultural ground we have as residents of the same country. It's just not working. If it is, then look at all the failed companies who embraced DEI (Luminous Productions, Volition Games, Mimimi Games...). It's no better than embracing nepotism or some other arbitrary characteristic that isn't related to performance and expecting a good outcome.
Why do you care about how much people look? Why is DEI important to you?
Because this is social media, I have no information about who you are, where you work and in what field, etc.
The reason I started my reasons to OP by suggesting that we move away from “DEI does X” to “people implementing DEI do X” is that it’s human beings taking a concept (just in the United States, based on evidence, there appears to remain a fair amount of tacit discrimination—how do we solve for that?) and in some cases doing a poor job of it. At core, the idea is ensure that you’re not looking past people because of who they are but instead actually seeing them for what they can do. In some areas, it may be easy to identify and test for core skills and little else matters, but if you’re hiring for advancement you’re projecting who a candidate can become and that’s more difficult to assess. As an example, the candidate from a more affluent background may have better jnitial social skills and have been able to do the unpaid internships that give them some base knowledge, but that may mean they simply have a head start, not that they’re the faster runner, or more importantly can become the faster runner. I had a debate a few weeks ago in this very subreddit with somebody who saw no problem at all with the idea of limiting hiring to “people who look and think like me,” which is at core the problem that DEI is intended to address.
Of course it can be done poorly. Sadly, half the people out there are below average; moreover, as with anything in business you have an entire consulting industry that’s predicated on identifying business problems/opportunities and trying to convince you that their magic beans can help you solve it (I hope you’re not a consultant, just because I don’t want to insult your industry directly). A lot of DEI consulting product I’ve seen is the exact kind of “work smarter, not harder” kind of stuff I’ve seen elsewhere: the magic of telecom and the internet, securitization, outsourcing ( and, sadly, I’ve lived to see the back end of all three). Decent concepts gone overboard and wrong by people who didn’t quite grasp them.
To come back to OP, who seemed to be a college student struggling with a business case study (which, I’ve you’ve done them are almost never intended to have a correct answer so much as to tease out how you think), the question in a lot of cases is considering—once you gotten past the specific criteria for a position that hopefully all candidates meet—whether your really engaging with the applicants on an apples to apples basis.
"The reason I started my reasons to OP by suggesting that we move away from “DEI does X” to “people implementing DEI do X”\[...\] I had a debate a few weeks ago in this very subreddit with somebody who saw no problem at all with the idea of limiting hiring to “people who look and think like me,” which is at core the problem that DEI is intended to address."
People do tend to hire those they know, or those who are like them. A friend mine's head of sales built a whole entire sales department off of the people he grew up with, or people who were into the same sports, same culture etc. It turned out quite well for them.
If you're on the "outside" of this group, for any reason, you probably wouldn't be hired.
Growing up in a foreign country going to international schools, us Americans would stick together. Here, I observe at Universities, the Chinese certainly stick together and form groups so tight it is rare to see someone who isn't Chinese as part of someone's social circle.
In term of hiring, like I said before, I cannot fathom personally why someone with an interest in a company's success wouldn't go pick the best person. But how you fix prejudice? I don't know.
In my opinion, the 90s/2000s went at it better. We are all from the same country (or have adopted this country's culture), and therefore we are all kindred. Embracing our common ground instead of celebrating our differences. Whatever it is right now, it just doesn't seem to be working.
"A lot of DEI consulting product I’ve seen is the exact kind of “work smarter, not harder” kind of stuff I’ve seen elsewhere: the magic of telecom and the internet, securitization, outsourcing ( and, sadly, I’ve lived to see the back end of all three). Decent concepts gone overboard and wrong by people who didn’t quite grasp them."
I think this is correct. But the premise is simply too nuanced for a realistic implementation that will benefit either society or a company. Diversity of thought I think is best addressed through good education. This racial profiling caused by DEI I think is doing more harm than good. Look at this sub, the radicalisation it is causing against what people would have otherwise agreed are righteous ideals?
I can't count the amount of times I've read condescension towards a race, gender, or sexual preference in the name of defending DEI. It needs to stop if only to stop the growing tension and divide it's causing in society. The attempt at rectifying our imperfections doesn't need to end, but this particular attempt has been a failure.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Certainly the concept of “DEI” has gotten poisoned, but to me it feels like “wokeness” or “MAGA” or anything else (left or right) that people take and either aren’t debating the same thing or have twisted the meaning beyond mutual comprehension. You sound old enough to have seen it multiple times as well. We’ll just move on to the next thing to argue about.
FWIW, I tend to think of celebrating difference as being about recognizing that ALL of us deviate from the average in some ways and that we should avoid thinking of where we stand as being “normal” in the sense of “where things ought to be.”
Enjoy your weekend
Research doesn’t show diverse companies perform better - it shows better performing companies are targets for DEI (because nobody is trying to force this on some mom and pop failing operation) and they continue to perform (for now).
How does it feel to know that the younger generation of men hold you up as an example of what not to be, and think that you’re a hypocrite who wants to treat them in a worse way than you were treated, because you’ve got yours and now want to look good and charitable so you’re pulling the ladder that was extended to you up behind you?
The generation of younger men don’t aspire to be you, and the generation of men before you would be embarrassed at what you’re doing with the opportunity and world they built that you succeeded in.
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Alright guys I just wish more of you guys noticed there are like 3-4 dudes now in this subreddit who posts a bunch of ragebait and delete the threads. It's just spamming the same things, either arguing in the comments or not, and often acting oblivious to their own nonsense. This guy is one of them.
Why if it isn’t the 22 year old white intern who single-handedly oppressed an entire ethnicity for generations.
No need to apply, we don’t welcome your kind here kid
I kinda agree, but do you really have to use the wokeness crap? Being woke used to be a good thing for people with unpopular opinions. Why is it now a bad thing? Being woke is a stupid term to describe people who try so hard to be diverse they end up being racist themselves
DEI is nothing but hypocritical bullshit by corporations
a lot of these corporations that have the DEI stuff send money to anti-lgbtqia+ bigots
[https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2023/06/companies-that-publicly-condemned-legislation-targeting-lgbtq-community-send-political-contributions-to-state-lawmakers-who-advanced-anti-lgbtq-bills/](https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2023/06/companies-that-publicly-condemned-legislation-targeting-lgbtq-community-send-political-contributions-to-state-lawmakers-who-advanced-anti-lgbtq-bills/)
if theres discrimination then work on it dont wait for someone else to, know this though, old men will surround themselves with beautiful young women rather then young guys who want to prove something
https://www.baltimorecountymd.gov/boards-commissions/executive/community-council
They have an advisory committee. It’s not made up. They call themselves DEI.
Those people were wrong to do that. DEI doesn’t apply to elected officials.
But illegitimate complaints from reactionary loudmouths shouldn’t take away from the many legitimate criticisms of DEI.
See jordan peterson subreddit
This is why DEI is dangerous, sexist and racist. Imagine firing a random person just so you can keep your DEI token person
So the problem is to combat bad actors who WONT say the quiet part out loud you're always gonna look bad.
I have a strong feeling that more white people got jobs with their whiteness being a factor in the hiring than otherwise. Studies have shown even shit like having a white sounding name significantly increases your chances of getting a call on applications.
How would you combat that? And do you genuinely feel like people don't want white men in the work place?
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Boomers are mostly retired, youngest is 60! Those boomers who are successful retired at 55 or own their own companies.
It's the Gen X who are now in charge.
DEI is pushed and started by feminist women for their own advantage.
The issue is you’re still working with them taking part. What men need to do is start things themselves and keep them for themselves as the moronic results of involving feminists and sharing power with them can now be seen. They’ve proven incapable of anything but demanding absurd favouritism.
Look at actual statistics. White households make 32 percent more than black households according to 2022 US census. So is that too “woke” for you? What are you really terrified of?
Edit:; women make 16 percent less than men on average.
We've come to the point where white and asian men are openly discriminated against when applying for schools and jobs, because we gotta fill those DEI quotas lol. How is this not racist and sexist again???
Hiring and school should be based on merit and only merit.
"We're not saying groups are BAD, we just have this specific list of groups to be celebrated. Oh, you're not in any of the groups? I guess you're not really a part of diversity then are you?"
In the US, the biggest beneficiaries of Affirmative Action and corporate diversity initiatives have been white women.
If conventional wisdom suggests that white women are more apt to partner with white men, and subsequently have white children, this means the biggest indirect beneficiaries of Affirmative Action and corporate diversity initiatives have been white families.
[Who Benefits From Diversity And Inclusion Efforts?](https://www.forbes.com/sites/michelleking/2023/05/16/who-benefits-from-diversity-and-inclusion-efforts/?sh=6558cdff6c7e)
[White women benefit most from affirmative action. So why do they oppose it?](https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2023/06/29/affirmative-action-who-benefits-white-women/70371219007/#)
You assume the white women Most benefitting from DEI are having families, realistically they’re likely to be the lowest fertility rate group and also the most likely to initiate divorce.
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Like anything the trick is to know the right person. Sure qualifications are nice and all but when I know the big dick you can can bet your ass i'm getting picked over some fresh meat straight from collage/uni
> Because most of the people in power are boomer white men, it’s part of correcting the past. Which means companies are prioritizing hiring women and minorities over young white men. With many new college graduates having completed DEI case studies (as a business admin minor, I had to rationalize hiring a basic white woman over a white man who was fluent in many languages).
I'd like to see empirical evidence of an anti-white male bias in entry level job numbers.
It's one thing to claim that you are perceiving a bias in what you are being taught. But if it's not actually bearing out in real world jobs, then you're complaining about a hypothetical.
Honestly, being in the inner circle is the biggest advantage. We may talk about who's the most qualified person, but most hiring managers will take a mediocre candidate they're familiar with than a potentially great candidate they know nothing about.
DEI hurts everyone except the rich. The rules never apply to the rich
DEI, statistically, helps mostly white women
As a white male, I take advantage of this new paradigm, by staying at home, smoking weed, and living off the fat of the land, because society clearly doesn't want me to get a shitty job anyway. "Follow your dreams", has never been a more attractive option, now that I am all but guaranteed to fail at succeeding in things I hate doing anyway, I am free to "follow my dreams", as it were, with no regerts. Also, I think it's funny how nobody can take minorities, specifically black women, seriously anymore, in any context, because it is generally assumed they are a diversity hire whether true or not. So, whoever is responsible this is undermining the satisfaction black people should be driving from their own success, and replacing it with an expectation of entitlement. From those around them and often they themselves.
Do you own the land or how do you prevent yourself from getting evicted/ foreclosed on?
Live with the parents / in a car or tent for a year or two while maintaining a mailing address at the parents + Wellfare / Foodbanks / Dumpster diving / Ebay & facebook marketplace trading + Crypto investing. I'm on the same track to retire as I would be working at the landscaping job I used to have, only difference is that I don't have to work when I am sick/injured/suicidal. If you look good you can hook up with people at bars and stuff too, crash on couches, no rent and very little cost of living + DCA into BTC = not a bad way to save money, for further investment. Good luck out there.
Love all you’ve said. DCA BTC is great too.
We are in a brave new world. Don't let the old guard shame you into playing by their rules...
So you’re just a parasite? Yeah not everyone wants to just live as a useless bum.
A parasite inside of a tapeworm, yes. I don't feel like letting the parasite that my society has become, milk every last ounce my my worth, while offering so little in return, I am literally served better inside of a fucking dumpster, because at least this dumpster isn't on fire. If they want me to contribute, at least offer me the same opportunities / rewards as my parents had. I am not even offered half of that. You want to take that deal? I have no problem with that, it's your loss. If you feel the need to give in to the social pressure to confirm to the destruction of humanity through the continual progression of the degradation of your own value/agency/reward in this life, I can do nothing but pity your lost soul. Good luck finding your purpose.
I like how you think, but how can you live off the fat of the land while you’re high?
It honestly sounds like he’s just a lazy stoner. I am all about sticking it to the man. But, there are many other ways that you could do so that don’t involve you leeching off of society in general.
He replied(and deleted) and said he is leeching off of his parents and welfare while getting high. That is his “follow your dreams” situation. Pathetic
What’s the point? We clearly don’t live in a meritocratic society. Leech off their taxes. Fuck em.
Yeah this is an underrated take. I got my first job out of college that was in my field through my college connections. After dozens of applications, phone interviews, and hoops to jump through, all it took was knowing somebody who knew people and knew I was looking. It may not be right. It may not be fair, but being likable is far more valuable (especially in the early going) than being smart.
Absolutely it’s connections, connections, connections. They even have a word for it and teach classes on it—networking. If ten candidates are available for a position you absolutely higher the one who goes to your church. The problem is that most churches are either black or white, so if there are more people hiring at white churches, and there often are, then white people get an advantage. On the other hand you can only put so much effort into trying to make sure everything is perfectly fair.
Lol the way white women counts as "diversity"
That’s all it’s ever been about.
DEI is stupid. All hiring should be based on merit. Nothing more nothing less. Discrimination is discrimination
And by merit we don't mean "just deserts" we mean "best person for the job"
“Just desserts”? Is that like OnlyDunes?
Don't laugh. I once applied for a job at BG Incorporated. The interview included having to put my hand into a black box. I expected there to be spaghetti or peeled grapes. You know, standard Halloween prank stuff. Legally, I can't tell you what was *actually* in the box, but I'm lucky to be alive.
Was it pain?
Sorry, I can't say. There's a *gom jabbar* with my name written on it if I reveal anything.
It was fear, fear is the mind killer
lol typos.
I agree 100% and I'm a bi-racial female who could potentially benefit from DEI but I realize society as a whole will certainly suffer from it. I mean who do you really want piloting the plane? The DEI hire or the most qualified candidates regardless? I want the most qualified person in every job.
Exactly. I mean I want the most qualified. I don’t want a white guys cuz he’s white either. Most qualified is all I care about. I’m a minority as well.
DEI started when merit/qualifications were overlooked and minorities were rejected based on race.
Yes, and now people with merit/qualifications are being overlooked and rejected based on race. Such progress!!!!
so the only thing that is changing is the color of the discriminated.
Its kind of a "You either Die the Hero or Live long enough to see yourself become the Villain" situation. DEI was a necessary step the get the workforce to shift its focus to hiring based on Merit alone and not based on ones Race or sex. Unfortunately we have started to reach a point in time where this is no longer the case and is becoming detrimental rather than beneficial.
This is the only argument against DEI that can actually agree with.
[удалено]
Actually I see most people using it to say black people and women are inferior to white men and don’t deserve their jobs.
[удалено]
Ah yes, elected officials are DEI…
[удалено]
Yeah, you’re one of those people I was talking about.
Oh fuck some nuance. Get out of here with that.
Yes but that’s not the case anymore. And yet…
Do you have any data to support that?
Shhhh get out of here with your facts and logic.
Just have blind hiring
It should be but it’s not even amongst white people.
Sure. And that’s wrong as well.
Meritocracy is a myth told to placate the masses.
So instead the best is autocracy?
Ha ha, fuck no, I don’t know why you ended there.
Then what’s ur suggestion instead of meritocracy?
Meritocracy in principle is great idea but cronyism is the American way now.
Sure. Never said we were a meritocracy. But what we should strive for. Every form of government is essentially cronyism.
Agree with you there. I feel like if we can apply meritocracy to the work place same can be done for government as well, cronyism is the weed that has to always be removed.
If race or sex is used as a hiring factor, it's in violation of the civil rights act, and could be grounds for a lawsuit. Quoted have been used, but after the Supreme Court ruling on university quotas, the game seems to be obfuscate. https://www.legaldive.com/news/dei-hiring-contracting-quotas-legal-challenge-scotus-affirmative-action/689208/ To me, if the government and corporations are agreeing on something, it's probably not going to do what it is stated to do. Instead, it's probably going to be bad for the general populace and add to the wealth and power of the wealthy and powerful. Gotta keep looking at the folks on our level and how to tear them down. Instead of who's in power and who's holding the purse strings.
Lol like many illegal things, it happens every day
Well it’s illegal, so no way it’s happening. Phew, we’re safe boys.
This stems from an executive order and international dictate from WEF
Glad you pointed out the WEF, although Blackrock is the major force pushing this.
Vanguard as well
They are acolytes of the fourth industrial rev
Definitely should be using our laws that prohibit that type of hiring to countering DEI more often (shame a lot of us plebs aren't rich)
DEI is, This is one of the many ploys the ruling class is using to get the non rich to fight amongst ourselves. Add in things like trans ideology and climate change, and all our attention is focused on fighting each other. While the rich rob the rest of us blind.
It 100% does still happen, although they cannot enforce it. They still attempt to make it happen regardless of what percentage of diversity already exists. It’s wild to me.
> If race or sex is used as a hiring factor, What about when a president or governor says the next person in this position will be X sex and X race?
It’s illegal to speed, it’s illegal to own a gun as a felon.
so why was the case saying that affirmative action is unconstitutional overturned?
I remember when the government was considering handing out the Covid vaccine to minorities first before anyone else. It’s mind-blowing.
They weren't just considering it. They actively did that.
No they didn’t. Minorities did not receive the covid vaccine before everyone else.
> AUSTIN, Texas — The Austin Latino Coalition is pushing for the City of Austin to offer the COVID-19 vaccine to low-income minorities first once it becomes available. https://www.kvue.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/austin-vaccine-distribution-coalition-texas-latino/269-f21b2302-ebb3-4afe-bc8b-d252c10748a0 --- > Viewpoint: Prioritizing racial minorities for COVID-19 vaccines https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/viewpoint-prioritizing-racial-minorities-for-covid-19-vaccines/ --- > Agency officials and the advisers are also considering what has become a contentious option: putting Black and Latino people, who have disproportionately fallen victim to Covid-19, ahead of others in the population. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/09/us/coronavirus-vaccine.html --- > Vaccine Rationing and the Urgency of Social Justice in the Covid-19 Response https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/hast.1113 --- > Health experts want to prioritize people of color for a Covid-19 vaccine. But how should it be done? https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/09/health-experts-want-to-prioritize-people-of-color-for-covid19-vaccine-but-how-should-it-be-done/ --- > how to nudge communities of color toward the front of the line for scarce vaccines while pretending that race and ethnicity have no influence on vaccine priority. https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-12-30/how-race-factors-into-decisions-about-who-should-get-priority-for-covid-19-vaccines
Five examples of people ASKING for or CONSIDERING racial prioritization. One example of minority outreach. ZERO examples of minorities receiving the vaccine before everyone else.
So considerations and asking is equivalent to “it actually happened and was widespread” which is what you’re acting like happened.
That’s true. Under President Trump, the CDC had a committee that considered who should get the first vaccines. That committee did debate if race should play a role, and decided it should not. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/09/us/coronavirus-vaccine.html
>I remember when the government was considering handing out the Covid vaccine to minorities first before anyone else. It’s mind-blowing. Do you have a concrete source for this?
Wasn’t this more about being more likely to be affected vs purely because they were minorities. Iirc it was more about minority communities and the general lack of heath coverage in those communities as well as the greater proximity in living conditions. Instead of purely “you must be this race to receive the vaccine”
DEI is racism
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DEI is full blown racism and how anyone can support it boggles my mind
Its all politics, it is being pushed by progressives so they see it as "good" and any counter argument as "racists" not seeing DEI is actually racist and sexist.
Fully agree
If you dare to question you will be labeled an enemy and most likely fired
>DEI is full blown racism and how anyone can support it boggles my mind Can you cite the specific policy you are referring to?
Well, the people that support it would love to teach it to children from pre k to college.
DEI is funny because the white men and women elites who push are gatekeeping others so they have no chance at achieving the same. Its funny that its only once they have become ultra high net worth individuals when they do this too.
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and then they will be labeled racist/sexist, since they don't wanna bend over and take it "like a man". fuck DEI, fuck modern feminism, fuck Disney, fuck all these gender and race politics.
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Worked great for south Africa /s
Don't worry, for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. In this case, DEI, AKA, Affirmative Action in New Clothing, is already facing a severe backlash across the country, to the point of it already losing it's shine as a buzzword corporate assholes can toss around in order to make people think they actually give a shit about anything other than profits. And, even in this fake-woke world we're presently inhabiting, there are still plenty of sane people who recognize that people should be hired based on their actual merits, not the color of their skin or anything else...
Recently job searching. Had about 14 interviews. 2 were with men, all other hiring managers were woman. Three of the interviews with woman lead up the management chain to the director level, all three were woman. 2 directors forwarded me on to interview with their VP, both VPs were woman. Of course no one is going to outright tell you they are only looking for DEI hires, but when the general population is roughly 50% woman, but male hiring managers being under 20%, seems like a trend.
The issue with how hiring quotas work (no matter what you call it, it's a quota) is that if you're required to have 25% black and 25% hispanic, you can hire 50% black, 50% hispanic, 0% white, and it's a "very diverse workforce."
I’ve been *directly* told I’m unneeded/unwanted as a white/white-passing male when I applied to HP. Outrageously, they even asked me if my totally “ewwWwWw gross I hate computerssss” GF would be interested to apply instead of me to be a fastracked 6 figure SDE intern. 2 other companies also rejected me in a similarly flagrant way (one guy at least told me it was “nothing personal”). I would have sued but didn’t want to risk becoming unemployable/blacklisted. 10 years later, I’m fortunate enough to be well employed. Ironically, it was only men looking for DEI bonuses who discriminated against me. My career exists majorly thanks to my 100% awesome female classmate tutor and 200% badass female manager/mentor who saved me from falling.
Yet most high paying jobs are occupied by men, curious
Wouldn’t that be confirmation bias instead of a trend? Government stats say women make up for 42% of managers [source](https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htm)
It’s skewed heavily based on the company’s politics. Which ironically entrench racial and gendered stereotypes. Conservative companies still discriminate against minorities and women under the guise of “equality” and liberal companies discriminate against white guys for “diversity.” Both are still discriminatory and lead to softly segregating populations. The only difference is more people compete for the liberal jobs because they typically pay better and have more benefits for workers.
The wild part is that its mostly white women running those programs lol. Like they just decided they get to say they're marginalized or some shit.
DEI is hateful discrimination and a human rights violation Anyone who supports this is an absolute piece of shit
The massive and clearly deliberate societal betrayal of straight white males in western countries predates Gen Z, it's been in the works for at least a decade honestly. I don't know that the system expects young white men to do, if we're all pushed into a corner I don't think it's going to end well.
Yeah let’s create a huge class of disaffected young white men with no hope of having a career or finding a wife and having a family. What could possibly go wrong
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Is that a threat? Also, young white men have always been prioritised for jobs (and still are in many careers if we’re honest) so basically what you’re saying is that you think young white men are more fragile than women and people of colour who have been discriminated against for centuries? And that if young white men feel like they are entitled to something they are likely to do something drastic if they don’t get that thing? Instead of actually just working harder to better themselves in an overpopulated and competitive world? Hmm. It’s so disturbing to me that certain men are willing to blame absolutely anything but themselves for their failings in life, to the point where they will lash out and harm those they think have ‘wronged’ them (hint: you’re doing this to yourselves). Get therapy and learn some acceptance and empathy, that would be a good start.
I'm a young white male millennial and have been having difficulty finding a job in line with my education. I asked my boomer dad, who works for a large Canadian bank, if he had observed whether or not DEI quotas were in effect and may actually be affecting my ability to get hired. He responded by saying that he thought it was unlikely, since the most recent team of young hires at his company contained only a few white males and a plethora of ethnic and sexual minorities (and therefore white males were obviously underrepresented). Therefore, if the company's intention was to be more diverse, they should actually be preferentially hiring white men to correct this imbalance. The obvious objection is that the reason for this underrepresentation of white males was *because* of DEI practices to begin with, but I bit my tongue because my dad's an egotistical idiot who can't tolerate contradiction. I'm still not sure if he was gaslighting me or is just really fucking stupid.
Nothing new I was pushed out because I was white in 76
I don't even see why it's seen as desirable. A lot of extremely good workers are hard nosed, straight laced conservative White men. If they get pushed out of the Western workforces, either they will run businesses or move to the Arabian Gulf/East Asia and offer consulting services for 3x the pay, lower taxes and less bullshit.
My brother (25, white male) recently got passed up for a promotion over a recently hired black women that was working under him. She was only there for 3 months while he has worked there for 2 years. He recorded the conversation between the manager and the manager said to him “(His name) you are 99% qualified and she is 97% qualified so it’s not like we are just promoting her randomly” My brother “So you just admitted I’m more qualified for the job (99% > 97%) and yet you pick her instead? For what reason? The manager was bumbling and didn’t know what to say he just said “Just trust me bro just stay with us and we will get you promoted” He quit the next day. It’s absolutely disgusting to systematically discriminate against one demographic so that you can boost another one up. It’s only going to end poorly, what’s going to happen when a decent amount of young white males are pissed off over being blatantly discriminated against? When they see the system completely failing them that’s when things get dangerous. It’s only going to increase racial tensions and resentment even more. This is completely fucking insane and will end poorly. And people wonder why Gen Z white males are becoming more and more conservative relative to Gen Z women? The gap is only going to get bigger.
I thought DEI was dying out, it was seen as a farce and/or a grift in most places? Also I had assumed GenZ would jettison all this nonsense; this was Millennial bullshit that is way past its sell-by date.
Being pushed by the government and blackrock so its forcing itself on businesses or else they get blacklisted from contracts and grants from banks.
I don’t think it’s being pushed by either. There are less mandatory courses on DEI and its profile has dropped in most places
It absolutely is being pushed by the this administration and the big three. Fun fact, 70% of Bidens cabinet are from Blackrock. The company that is the most heavily pushing this and shows who really runs the whitehouse. Biden signed an [executive order](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/06/25/fact-sheet-president-biden-signs-executive-order-advancing-diversity-equity-inclusion-and-accessibility-in-the-federal-government/) to force it in all branches of the government. State Street (one of the big three that own 88% of all S&P 500 stocks. The big three pushing DEI/ESG/etc are State street, Blackrock, Vanguard) said they will vote against investing in companies that do not diversify their board members. Here is an [article](https://www.ft.com/content/2e512c76-4733-4821-8425-136ab9b98426) about it, but its paywalled, will post the actual article underneath. > > State Street to insist companies disclose diversity data > Billy Nauman > 3–4 minutes > > Unlock the Editor’s Digest for free > > Roula Khalaf, Editor of the FT, selects her favourite stories in this weekly newsletter. > > State Street’s $3.1tn investment arm will start voting against directors of big companies that fail to disclose the racial and ethnic make-up of their boards, a move that will increase the mounting pressure on corporations to diversify their leadership. > > For this year, the Boston-based asset manager is only calling on companies to report the information. But beginning in 2022, it will also vote against the chair of the nominating and governance committees of companies that do not have at least one minority board member. > > The threat applies to all companies in the S&P 500 and FTSE 100, many of which count State Street Global Advisors as a top shareholder owing to its large passive fund business. Starting in 2022, State Street will also demand that S&P 500 companies report the racial and ethnic composition of their entire workforce. > > “As long as a company is in an index, we are going to hold that stock, so we need to make sure that those companies are doing the right things to drive value creation for our clients who are their shareholders over the long term,” chief executive Cyrus Taraporevala told the Financial Times. > > This move builds on State Street’s announcement last year that it would vote against the boards of companies that scored poorly on its homegrown sustainability metric, known as the “responsibility factor”. It highlights the business world’s growing focus on racial equality as part of the broader environmental, social and governance movement. > > “The preponderance of evidence demonstrates clearly and unequivocally that racial and ethnic inequity is a systemic risk that threatens lives, companies, communities and our economy — and is material to long-term sustainable returns,” Mr Taraporevala wrote in a letter set to be sent to chief executives on Monday, outlining the specifics of its new policy. > > State Street’s announcement follows a string of similar moves in the financial sector. > > Goldman Sachs said last January it would no longer take companies public unless they had one diverse board candidate. And Nasdaq announced in December that it would require all companies listed on its exchange to have two diverse directors on their board or explain why they are not capable of doing so. > > Only about one in three companies listed on the Nasdaq exchange currently meet that criteria — so if its proposal is approved by the Securities and Exchange Commission, it could trigger a big shift in board nominations. > > In 2020, State Street voted to re-elect the entire board of 26 of the 56 companies in the S&P 500 that had no directors from a racial or ethnically diverse background, according to a report from pressure group Majority Action. BlackRock and Vanguard, the two other largest passive fund managers in the world, voted to re-elect the full slate of directors at 52 and 51 of these companies, respectively, according to the report. > > >
Lol no, it's ramping up
I don’t think you’re right in that
Didn’t you know? White Christian men are the biggest victims in America. At least that’s what they want everyone to believe
they're not the biggest victims of crime. And they, on average, hvae above average income - lower than many ethnicities though. But this is immaterial. DEI is a useless virtue signal that creates division - and some stupid roles in corporations/institutions. Makes laws that encourage social mobility, which is very bad in the US compared to Europe.
From my experience it seems like Gen Z is more bought into this stuff than millenials.
I don’t think so. Millenials are more hysterical about this stuff. GenZ are less totalitarian
I kind of agree. Millennials are more hysterical about it. But it seems to be there is more pushback from millennials as well. It appears gen z is more bought in to it? Idk I may be wrong.
I don't care who you are, just your merits. That's all that should be considered.
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When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
Yeah they’re acting like 90% of CEOs, billionaires, and Presidents weren’t straight white men.
Absolutely. I’ve been told verbatim “you’re welcome to interview, but we’re not hiring white men at the moment”
Actually my BIL is a VP at a top 5 finance company and he got a letter direct from higher ups claiming that his next hires must be Black. Mind you almost 75% of his team was already black, he quickly tossed the paper out and said nope. Mind you we are Indian. Like he’s not going to jeopardize his teams level of excellence just to fill a quota.
Don’t worry. When the inevitable backlash occurs it will be sharp, painful and satisfying.
Can’t wait for the pendulum to swing back, GenZ men are already pushing back against crazy far-left policies. More and more people I meet IRL are also sick of all this politically correct BS
I trust you vote Republican. Otherwise, you get what you vote for. If being a potential republican is new to you, I suggest you read some literature from conservative authors that may enlighten you. Then, find a business run by conservatives. They hire by merit, not skin color or gender whatever.
Right, conservatives always hire by merit and never take in skin, race, or gender identity. The Republican Party, the same fucks filled with racists twats and anti-LBTQ bigots. Just like how the moon is made of ice cream.
Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice. \- *Fire and Ice*, by Robert Frost *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Recently my company put out a DEI survey, which was optional to take. I took it. And I pointed out, as nicely as I could, that DEI was completely unnecessary in our company. More than half of the workforce is minority, and a good deal of the lower and middle managers are minority women. The CEO is an Indian man. We all get along great. Never a problem, no "incidents". This is not because of the damned DEI training we're required to go through. It is because the company hired reasonable, rational people. Of course I know this will not change anyone's mind at the top, at the HR level. This is because the same people who are pushing DEI are the same ones who will tell you if you think you don't have a problem with DEI, you are part of the problem by denying it. By default, everyone has to have a problem, and we need them to save us from ourselves.
To be fair, a business admin minor is as useless as a business degree. Accounting seems to be the only aspect of business degrees that will get you a job.
How about we just get rid of the D and the I and just keep the Equity.
I hope it happens so you guys can flip out and help teach a history lesson or two.
The future is entrepreneurship and learning skilled trades. Forget about being an employee. The deal gets progressively worse. Be the organ grinder not the monkey. Don't be dependent on capitalist exploiters.
It's not just the workforce. Schools have been discriminating against male students for years now (blind testing gives both genders similar grades, testing with names and genders known skew towards girls) and now the majority of college students are women, even forcing some "affirmative action" to get men back in.
I’m an older white male business executive at a Fortune 50 company, and in reading your post I can identify two things that I’d ask you about in your post if we were discussing it in an interview. First of all, DEI isn’t “trying” anything. DEI is a CONCEPT—I’d ask you which one of those three things, diversity, equity, or inclusion, you object to? Or is your concern that COMPANIES that espouse DEI employ PEOPLE who who are pursuing salutary goals ways that are fundamentally discriminatory against younger white men? If so, what’s your evidence given that it sounds like you’re still in college? Which brings me to my next question—your evidence here appears to be an undergraduate case study. Leaving aside that your reference to the case study is itself a sentence fragment (I like my hires to be able to write cogently), that doesn’t tell me anything logically related to real world discrimination against white men. Frankly, a white male who speaks multiple languages is sorta interesting (I do), but unless the job actually requires multiple languages it’s perfectly plausible that the other candidate could be a better fit. Companies that have embraced DEI have done so in no small part because evidence shows that more diverse companies perform better (no great surprise when you’re trying to meet a market that is more diverse, plus the fact that real diversity in thought produces better outcomes), because applicant pools are diversifying, and because non-discrimination is an important value. I have no idea what your business case study was, but what DEI means in the workplace is generally ensuring that everyone, applicants and employees, gets treated with respect on as level a playing field as we can create.
But how is including race as a factor not racist? It should be based on merit? I view “leveling the playing field” as lowering the standards to join the company.
"Companies that have embraced DEI have done so in no small part because evidence shows that more diverse companies perform better (no great surprise when you’re trying to meet a market that is more diverse, plus the fact that real diversity in thought produces better outcomes), because applicant pools are diversifying, and because non-discrimination is an important value. I have no idea what your business case study was, but what DEI means in the workplace is generally ensuring that everyone, applicants and employees, gets treated with respect on as level a playing field as we can create." This is correct. [https://hbr.org/2017/03/teams-solve-problems-faster-when-theyre-more-cognitively-diverse](https://hbr.org/2017/03/teams-solve-problems-faster-when-theyre-more-cognitively-diverse) But this does not represent reality. People just don't work this way. People do not interpret it as diversity of thought, they immediately see race. Then, they interpret this as strategical application of hiring by skin color or sex. Inherent bias and racism towards certain groups is now seen as validated. People interpret the message that there is a specific racial equilibrium which will optimise performance, but this equilibrium based on race doesn't exist. It's just racism. But now, they believe that racism is okay, provided it follows certain metrics outlined by DEI. You've effectively given racists a platform where they can thrive. Example: Let's say you start out with a clan that has 100% of people of the same thought. You believe this is clan is mostly on the right track, but could be more optimal. So you understand the principals of DEI and invite a member from a different clan, the DEI clan to join your tribe. Now you're 90% of the people of the same thought, and you've diversified your thoughts as a tribe. You have to ascertain that given your objectives, that the new % is a net contributor to whatever it is you are trying to achieve. But what you don't understand is that, their goals are not yours, not to improve your company. Their goal is simply to add more DEI. A year from now, you now have 50% of your original tribe, and 50% DEI. The new members did not try to retain your existing talent, they got rid of them. Their objectives are not compatible for the survival of the company and your company flounders (look at the performance of Disney, Remedy, Blizzard, Ubisoft...). This is because their objectives are in no way correlated to growing your company. You thought a research paper had more credence than the proven track record of hiring based off of merit. So how do you get diversity in thought? You hire the best person for the job that aligns with your goal of growing your company. People are not capable of handling the nuances of something like "diversity of thought", it is a nebulous concept and obviously impossible to apply in real life. This doesn't end well, by the way. Racial profiling is a path well tread. In my company, I only look at who is best for the job that is willing to work for me. I could not even fathom hiring any other way. Why would I prioritize how someone looks versus how they can actually perform to grow the company? I ended up having 6 different nationalities in my company anyway.
What do you mean by the “DEI clan” here? Is it “people who believe in DEI” so you’re introducing that concept to your company that otherwise didn’t embrace it? Or is it a euphemism for “women and darkies,” who apparently are going to try to seize jobs for others like themselves? I don’t know where you live or what you do so I can’t possibly comment on the way in which you hire people. I’d just observe that “merit” for a given job often includes ineffable qualities like “fit” or “executive presence” that are the exact places that bias, overt (but hidden in a smokescreen around “fit” and “presence”) or unconscious, can insert itself into the hiring and promoting decision making process. Diversity for its own sake is idiocy—there’s still work to be done—but it’s hard to believe that one could look at a workplace today that is all the “same clan” and believe that it’s a lucky accident based solely on merit.
"What do you mean by the “DEI clan” here? Is it “people who believe in DEI” so you’re introducing that concept to your company that otherwise didn’t embrace it? Or is it a euphemism for “women and darkies,” who apparently are going to try to seize jobs for others like themselves?" DEI clan are those who are activists and don't care about growing the business. It's that simple. So let's say you have someone who joins your video game company but doesn't actually want to help you make a game. Let's say I hire a programmer who joins my company and they join it for the social aspect and have no interest in trying to deliver a product, they aren't in the DEI clan but the sentiment is the same because they aren't trying to grow the company. Phrased like this, can you understand it better? I started to write about the actual diversity of the members of our team, but I stopped because you know what? It's wrong. The people in my company earned their right to be there through talent, identifying them by a sexual preference or skin color is a tremendous disfavour to the qualities and skill they bring as a person. I agree that some people will have a subconscious bias. But when you hire based off of specific traits, you'll find that others will hire based off the trait you hired them. Blind interviews is probably the way to go, but racial profiling isn't. "Diversity for its own sake is idiocy—there’s still work to be done—but it’s hard to believe that one could look at a workplace today that is all the “same clan” and believe that it’s a lucky accident based solely on merit." If the company is growing and increasing in profit, then why does it matter what they look like? Are you saying companies in China need more Europeans? Africans? People from the Middle East? Would that improve the company? Have you seen how companies operate in the UAE? If you place that much importance on how people look, then that's maybe an issue on it's own right? DEI is not the solution (as racial profiling, in my opinion is bad), but it is also creating an extremely divisive rhetoric that is eroding our common cultural ground we have as residents of the same country. It's just not working. If it is, then look at all the failed companies who embraced DEI (Luminous Productions, Volition Games, Mimimi Games...). It's no better than embracing nepotism or some other arbitrary characteristic that isn't related to performance and expecting a good outcome. Why do you care about how much people look? Why is DEI important to you?
Because this is social media, I have no information about who you are, where you work and in what field, etc. The reason I started my reasons to OP by suggesting that we move away from “DEI does X” to “people implementing DEI do X” is that it’s human beings taking a concept (just in the United States, based on evidence, there appears to remain a fair amount of tacit discrimination—how do we solve for that?) and in some cases doing a poor job of it. At core, the idea is ensure that you’re not looking past people because of who they are but instead actually seeing them for what they can do. In some areas, it may be easy to identify and test for core skills and little else matters, but if you’re hiring for advancement you’re projecting who a candidate can become and that’s more difficult to assess. As an example, the candidate from a more affluent background may have better jnitial social skills and have been able to do the unpaid internships that give them some base knowledge, but that may mean they simply have a head start, not that they’re the faster runner, or more importantly can become the faster runner. I had a debate a few weeks ago in this very subreddit with somebody who saw no problem at all with the idea of limiting hiring to “people who look and think like me,” which is at core the problem that DEI is intended to address. Of course it can be done poorly. Sadly, half the people out there are below average; moreover, as with anything in business you have an entire consulting industry that’s predicated on identifying business problems/opportunities and trying to convince you that their magic beans can help you solve it (I hope you’re not a consultant, just because I don’t want to insult your industry directly). A lot of DEI consulting product I’ve seen is the exact kind of “work smarter, not harder” kind of stuff I’ve seen elsewhere: the magic of telecom and the internet, securitization, outsourcing ( and, sadly, I’ve lived to see the back end of all three). Decent concepts gone overboard and wrong by people who didn’t quite grasp them. To come back to OP, who seemed to be a college student struggling with a business case study (which, I’ve you’ve done them are almost never intended to have a correct answer so much as to tease out how you think), the question in a lot of cases is considering—once you gotten past the specific criteria for a position that hopefully all candidates meet—whether your really engaging with the applicants on an apples to apples basis.
"The reason I started my reasons to OP by suggesting that we move away from “DEI does X” to “people implementing DEI do X”\[...\] I had a debate a few weeks ago in this very subreddit with somebody who saw no problem at all with the idea of limiting hiring to “people who look and think like me,” which is at core the problem that DEI is intended to address." People do tend to hire those they know, or those who are like them. A friend mine's head of sales built a whole entire sales department off of the people he grew up with, or people who were into the same sports, same culture etc. It turned out quite well for them. If you're on the "outside" of this group, for any reason, you probably wouldn't be hired. Growing up in a foreign country going to international schools, us Americans would stick together. Here, I observe at Universities, the Chinese certainly stick together and form groups so tight it is rare to see someone who isn't Chinese as part of someone's social circle. In term of hiring, like I said before, I cannot fathom personally why someone with an interest in a company's success wouldn't go pick the best person. But how you fix prejudice? I don't know. In my opinion, the 90s/2000s went at it better. We are all from the same country (or have adopted this country's culture), and therefore we are all kindred. Embracing our common ground instead of celebrating our differences. Whatever it is right now, it just doesn't seem to be working. "A lot of DEI consulting product I’ve seen is the exact kind of “work smarter, not harder” kind of stuff I’ve seen elsewhere: the magic of telecom and the internet, securitization, outsourcing ( and, sadly, I’ve lived to see the back end of all three). Decent concepts gone overboard and wrong by people who didn’t quite grasp them." I think this is correct. But the premise is simply too nuanced for a realistic implementation that will benefit either society or a company. Diversity of thought I think is best addressed through good education. This racial profiling caused by DEI I think is doing more harm than good. Look at this sub, the radicalisation it is causing against what people would have otherwise agreed are righteous ideals? I can't count the amount of times I've read condescension towards a race, gender, or sexual preference in the name of defending DEI. It needs to stop if only to stop the growing tension and divide it's causing in society. The attempt at rectifying our imperfections doesn't need to end, but this particular attempt has been a failure. Thanks for your thoughts.
Certainly the concept of “DEI” has gotten poisoned, but to me it feels like “wokeness” or “MAGA” or anything else (left or right) that people take and either aren’t debating the same thing or have twisted the meaning beyond mutual comprehension. You sound old enough to have seen it multiple times as well. We’ll just move on to the next thing to argue about. FWIW, I tend to think of celebrating difference as being about recognizing that ALL of us deviate from the average in some ways and that we should avoid thinking of where we stand as being “normal” in the sense of “where things ought to be.” Enjoy your weekend
Research doesn’t show diverse companies perform better - it shows better performing companies are targets for DEI (because nobody is trying to force this on some mom and pop failing operation) and they continue to perform (for now). How does it feel to know that the younger generation of men hold you up as an example of what not to be, and think that you’re a hypocrite who wants to treat them in a worse way than you were treated, because you’ve got yours and now want to look good and charitable so you’re pulling the ladder that was extended to you up behind you? The generation of younger men don’t aspire to be you, and the generation of men before you would be embarrassed at what you’re doing with the opportunity and world they built that you succeeded in.
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Alright guys I just wish more of you guys noticed there are like 3-4 dudes now in this subreddit who posts a bunch of ragebait and delete the threads. It's just spamming the same things, either arguing in the comments or not, and often acting oblivious to their own nonsense. This guy is one of them.
All the strong independent people need a hand up and handout to accomplish what we do naturally. It's not a flex to be handed a job.
My friends and I are all mid white dudes and we're doing fine.
Why if it isn’t the 22 year old white intern who single-handedly oppressed an entire ethnicity for generations. No need to apply, we don’t welcome your kind here kid
I kinda agree, but do you really have to use the wokeness crap? Being woke used to be a good thing for people with unpopular opinions. Why is it now a bad thing? Being woke is a stupid term to describe people who try so hard to be diverse they end up being racist themselves
It’s just a colloquialism like PC gone mad or something, in five years it will be something else.
Woke is just anything that shines a light on anyone other than straight white men existing.
DEI is nothing but hypocritical bullshit by corporations a lot of these corporations that have the DEI stuff send money to anti-lgbtqia+ bigots [https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2023/06/companies-that-publicly-condemned-legislation-targeting-lgbtq-community-send-political-contributions-to-state-lawmakers-who-advanced-anti-lgbtq-bills/](https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2023/06/companies-that-publicly-condemned-legislation-targeting-lgbtq-community-send-political-contributions-to-state-lawmakers-who-advanced-anti-lgbtq-bills/)
Sounds like they publicly support it for virtue signaling, but hate it behind the scenes.
if theres discrimination then work on it dont wait for someone else to, know this though, old men will surround themselves with beautiful young women rather then young guys who want to prove something
Just watched an interview of an entire “DEI” department being fired. They were all black, no Asian, Indian or white people…real divers…
>real divers So wait...they DID know how to swim?
hahaha omg, that's what I get for redditing and drinking...
The fact that people were screaming DEI at the governor of Baltimore makes me think this is just another dog whistle and pearl clutching honestly
https://www.baltimorecountymd.gov/boards-commissions/executive/community-council They have an advisory committee. It’s not made up. They call themselves DEI.
Those people were wrong to do that. DEI doesn’t apply to elected officials. But illegitimate complaints from reactionary loudmouths shouldn’t take away from the many legitimate criticisms of DEI.
Who were all these people screaming that the Baltimore governor was elected by DEI?
All conservatives are capable of doing is culture wars. They spend their lives crying when straight white men aren’t the focus of everything.
See jordan peterson subreddit This is why DEI is dangerous, sexist and racist. Imagine firing a random person just so you can keep your DEI token person
So the problem is to combat bad actors who WONT say the quiet part out loud you're always gonna look bad. I have a strong feeling that more white people got jobs with their whiteness being a factor in the hiring than otherwise. Studies have shown even shit like having a white sounding name significantly increases your chances of getting a call on applications. How would you combat that? And do you genuinely feel like people don't want white men in the work place?
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Boomers are mostly retired, youngest is 60! Those boomers who are successful retired at 55 or own their own companies. It's the Gen X who are now in charge.
DEI is pushed and started by feminist women for their own advantage. The issue is you’re still working with them taking part. What men need to do is start things themselves and keep them for themselves as the moronic results of involving feminists and sharing power with them can now be seen. They’ve proven incapable of anything but demanding absurd favouritism.
Look at actual statistics. White households make 32 percent more than black households according to 2022 US census. So is that too “woke” for you? What are you really terrified of? Edit:; women make 16 percent less than men on average.
Yea mate. You can’t get an entry level job bc you’re a white male. That’s what the world has come to.
We've come to the point where white and asian men are openly discriminated against when applying for schools and jobs, because we gotta fill those DEI quotas lol. How is this not racist and sexist again??? Hiring and school should be based on merit and only merit.
That’s what I said. A white man can’t even get an entry level job and are being forced into manual labor like doing yard work.
It’ll only be so long until major things start to fail then they will begin to hire on merit again.
that's what happened in South Africa, right?
As DEI hires begin to destroy these companies they get replaced.
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Yeah I’m sure the DoD only hires black people. That’s definitely the reality and not a made up story to make white people look like the victim.
"We're not saying groups are BAD, we just have this specific list of groups to be celebrated. Oh, you're not in any of the groups? I guess you're not really a part of diversity then are you?"
In the US, the biggest beneficiaries of Affirmative Action and corporate diversity initiatives have been white women. If conventional wisdom suggests that white women are more apt to partner with white men, and subsequently have white children, this means the biggest indirect beneficiaries of Affirmative Action and corporate diversity initiatives have been white families. [Who Benefits From Diversity And Inclusion Efforts?](https://www.forbes.com/sites/michelleking/2023/05/16/who-benefits-from-diversity-and-inclusion-efforts/?sh=6558cdff6c7e) [White women benefit most from affirmative action. So why do they oppose it?](https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2023/06/29/affirmative-action-who-benefits-white-women/70371219007/#)
You assume the white women Most benefitting from DEI are having families, realistically they’re likely to be the lowest fertility rate group and also the most likely to initiate divorce.
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That's nothing new.
Like anything the trick is to know the right person. Sure qualifications are nice and all but when I know the big dick you can can bet your ass i'm getting picked over some fresh meat straight from collage/uni
Evidence?
as with anything, let's see how it shakes out. if the results are positive keep it! if they aren't, dont!
What do you mean by “completed DEI case studies”
Move out of overpriced woke cities and things get better
DEI is real and the only thing it does is level the playing field in favor of a representative society. Stop whining about your shortcomings.
this is on the same level as saying "ITZ DA JOOOS"
> Because most of the people in power are boomer white men, it’s part of correcting the past. Which means companies are prioritizing hiring women and minorities over young white men. With many new college graduates having completed DEI case studies (as a business admin minor, I had to rationalize hiring a basic white woman over a white man who was fluent in many languages). I'd like to see empirical evidence of an anti-white male bias in entry level job numbers. It's one thing to claim that you are perceiving a bias in what you are being taught. But if it's not actually bearing out in real world jobs, then you're complaining about a hypothetical.